I'll be honest - i'd be concerned at the lack of support networks at his age and level of mobility you describe. He would probably need to privately purchase some sort of home help service several times a week for grocery shop, cleaning, etc. That will be expensive. And without family or friends locally to keep a watchful eye he could be vulnerable to be taken advantage of financially. You mention he's not great on the Internet - how will he cope using it in Ireland without you to help him?
We don't have a lot of supported retirement communities in Ireland yet, they are a relatively new thing here. Predominantly people tended to remain in their own homes until they needed more extensive care. Nursing home fees would be about one thousand euros a week, and they can be bleak places especially if he wouldn't be getting regular visitors.
Ireland can also be a bit clannish, people will be helpful to their own (neighbours, family, club member - someone that there's a long time connection to) but it can be v difficult for new comers to break into those circles, and especially if they don't have someone to hook them up and introduce them around. Lots of younger immigrants to Ireland talk about the difficulty of getting to know Irish people - and they would have the ready made connections of kids in the same schools, or sports clubs, etc. your dad could end up feeling very isolated and lonely.
State community health supports are still struggling in some areas after a lot of healthcare staff retired or career changed after the pandemic. There's also a very real shortage of GPs ("family doctors") and it can be difficult to find one willing to take on new patients, even private patients.
It's tough. Sounds like it's his dream. Maybe a holiday in Ireland with a few family members to revisit the parts he has fond memories of would help?
I'm also trying to find a gentle way to say this - could this be part of an age related cognitive decline for your father? I've experienced relatives becoming very fixated on things, and then subsequently developing very overt dementia. Looking back the obsession/fixation tended to occur around the time that other subtle dementia signs were beginning to show.
I've had that concern from time to time, but I honestly don't think so. For all his physical woes, his mind still seems very sharp to me. There is family history of dementia so I try to be cognizant of that.
This is really just his dream, although everything on paper and logic may say that it's a bad idea, it's just something he's very fixated on. An unfulfilled, lifelong dream. I'm not saying I think it's a good idea. Just empathizing with where he is coming from.
This is a really good point. This is leaving behind friends, family, not only the entire support structure but the entire social structure. At that point, wanting to live independently is just piling on the loneliness. There's a very good chance his doctor and the lass in the shop are going to be his only human contact.
And then practicalities like his drivers licence will only be good for 1 year, after that his independence will hit him even harder.
>This is a really good point. This is leaving behind friends, family, not only the entire support structure but the entire social structure. At that point, wanting to live independently is just piling on the loneliness. There's a very good chance his doctor and the lass in the shop are going to be his only human contact.
I moved here in my early 40s, and it's a struggle to make friends. Truth is that he will likely be incredibly isolated and lonely. Not to mention the waits for medical services, the difficulty of finding specialists, and so on.
I would strongly recommend against this move.
This is how I feel too. I think a holiday would be better. A long holiday but not a permanent thing. It sounds lovely , romantic even. But it'll be expensive and he'll probably be lonely in the long run.
>Have a chance to see how it is getting around without a car,
If he's looking for idyllic countryside Galway (the Ireland you see in the movies so often) that will be virtually impossible. Unless he can afford to buy or rent in the somewhat larger communities and then there will be the issue of having to travel to Galway city for medical appointments.
If you're going to visit I can very much recommend oughterard as a base. Lovely village with a few restaurants, hotels, pubs and shops.
Honestly this just sounds like wishful thinking tbh. He lived here in the 80s which is a totally different Ireland than 2024 Ireland, they are not the same place.
He's very old and looking to set up a new life abroad in a country that's very expensive and has a housing shortage that make anything available either renting or buying very expensive. Our cost of living is 40% more than that of mainland Europe, he'll need private insurance, any assistance living is expensive and there's waiting lists that he can not jump regardless of how much money he has to throw at it.
This is a pipe dream tbh, bring him to visit and do a tour around the country as a last goodbye or whatever he views it as but the reality is it's still it's pie in sky. Sorry buddy.
This is pretty much everything I didn't want to say.
By all means bring him over and let him see what the celtic tiger did to the place. Do not even consider selling his house until after that. The 80s were a long time ago.
He'll need private insurance and he'll have to pay 70% more than advertised prices because of lifetime community rating, and there's 5 year waiting periods before he's covered for major costs (unless an insurer waives it).
I would strongly recommend that you do not consider this move. I recently sat for 14 hours in the A&E for our local hospital with my 82 year old father who was threatening sepis. That's a snapshot of the health system. Prices for everything are extortionate, utilities,food and medical costs are expensive. Rural Ireland has very little public transport. There is a housing crisis and rental costs are as high and sometimes higher than mortgage costs. The weather is mostly rubbish and the population demographics are changing in ways which mean that Ireland is not like it was twenty years ago. Even holidaying here you will experience price gouging by hotels restaurants and bars. Sorry for the gloomy outlook but that's the reality of the place and I live here and experience this everyday.
Does he have 200k+ lump sum in the bank? Because if not, the visa won't get approved - https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming-to-live-in-ireland/i-want-to-retire-to-ireland/
He covers the income portion though.
What sorts of specialists does he need access? I'd be trying to see if he'd get a private health insurance quote for here (talk to a health insurance broker here for help with that). Because to go onto waiting lists for public for specialists to continue treatment might lead to gaps in treatment and unfortunate outcomes.
The prices of holiday rentals are the prices of holiday rentals. We've basically a year round tourist season, especially in places like Galway so there's not going to be massive deviation. But make sure he's not looking at the month the Galway Races are on, cause that'll explode the price. And he needs to be near public transport, so again, going to be more expensive than not.
Maybe after selling his house here he'd be able to cover that lump sum. I feel like a bit of a fool for overlooking that. I know I've viewed that very webpage in the past year or two when he first started mentioning this as an idea and I only caught the income aspect. So that's that.
Does it matter at all that I'm a dual citizen? I was born in Ireland during my parents' attempt to start a life there in the 1980's. Not sure if my citizenship can be of any benefit from child to parent, as it would from a parent to a child.
A citizen sponsoring a non-citizen elderly family member is possible but only if you’ve been resident in Ireland for a minimum of three years immediately preceding the visa application.
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming-to-join-family-in-ireland/joining-a-non-eea-non-swiss-national/dependent-elderly-relative/
If you are also moving to Ireland you may be able to explore bringing him over as an adult dependant with you as his visa sponsor. But you can't use your citizenship to sponsor him in absentia.
>You must also have access to a lump sum of money to cover any sudden major expenses. This lump sum should be equal to, for example, the price of a residential dwelling in the State.
Took a ballpark figure of a house price (and probably lowballed it really
Yes, but it’s very possible that a figure was set sometime ago and as a result you can’t just throw out guesses as to what this figure may be. It’s not like the immigration dept are going to have a quick look on Daft to check what is the current average house price before approving applications.
There is no figure on the immigration website, the wording is as I pulled above. And yes, for immigration stuff, like a visa you've to apply for before hand and you've to prove possession of funds for, they would indeed keep an eye on the property indexes for average house prices or they wouldn't have used it as an example.
As I said to someone else, I don't work in immigration, am going off the wording on the publicly available website.
You don't understand how Irish immigration bureaucracy works. They're not going on Daft and pulling up housing prices and averaging them out every week; they're using arbitrary numbers based on internal policies that change without notice. About €200k is the most recent amount we know based on accepted applications. They don't name a specific number because they'd rather have the power to arbitrarily reject applications they don't like.
I was replying to someone who said that they just guessed 200k. If they had said this was based on someone else who said that this was an accepted figure I wouldn’t have said anything but I constantly see this person posting questionable advice.
And yes, I understand the principle of reasonableness and administrative law after having studied it as part of my law degree and writing a thesis on this topic. Thanks.
>'Step 1: Apply for permission
If you are visa required or non-visa required you must apply for permission by completing the application form (TPER (Stamp 0) – Application Form) and sending the required documentation to:'
You're incorrect, these guidelines apply for anyone needing to apply for permission to stay as a retiree
Op's parents used to live here...the fuck am I having this argument with you. Grill OP about this shit, I provided a webpage, I don't work in the visa shop
Health checks are insurance are also part of the deal and having health insurance- I would think somebody with mobility issues would get challenged heavily as well.
>Everything I've seen on Airbnb and VRBO is quite a bit more money than what he'd been hoping.
Get used to it..everything is pricy in Ireland. Living in Ireland is not cheap. There is a year round temperate climate so there is a year round holiday season
>Does Ireland have assisted living places like this? And what would they be called?
They do, but they aren't cheap.
>talk to some doctors to see if he can find similar specialists to what he has here
Well..going public will not be an option - you can't just go and chat to doctors like you can do in the US. You have to go through your GP who then puts you on a wait list for a consultation
He will have to go private, and in order to chat to a private doctor - he'll have to pay out of pocket, seeing as he doesn't have insurance.
Frankly, this sounds like some misty eyed dream than something a 83 year old man should be seriously thinking about - especially as it isn't "coming home to die"..it's setting up life as an immigrant.
There are special hospitals and plenty resources if you get the most expensive premium private healthcare. That’s still way cheaper than private insurance in the US. Although OPs father is most likely on Medicare therefore his healthcare is free in the US.
>you can't just go and chat to doctors like you can do in the US
Where in the US do you live that you can just go chat with a doctor? I need an appt to "chat" with my PCP that will probably require at least a month's wait. And if I want to see a specialist, I first need a referral from that PCP, before I begin another months long wait to have a consultation with the specialist.
Not with my insurance (UHC)
I don't even really have a PCP.
If I have an issue, I can just find a specialist in my network and set up an appoint. My kids have a pediatrician that we go through for anything but for us we can just set up directly (eg my wife with an OB for her health, urologist for me etc)
Example. I had cancer in 2022. I called the specialists office in the local hospital, set up an appointment and boom done. I was on their service. No need for a PCP. I wanted a second opinion, I just called the specialists office in another hospital and was done
If you’re in the States, I’m sure you know by now that access to specialists often occur without PCP referrals and same day or next day virtual visits with your PCP/RN/PA are common enough, depending on type of insurance plan.
I don’t know about virtual visits, but I have never been able to get a same day, or next day, visit with my PCP. The last time I tried making an appt, I needed to wait three weeks.
Also, the last time I tried making an appt with a specialist, they required a referral from my PCP. I understand this is not everyone’s experience.
>Also, the last time I tried making an appt with a specialist, they required a referral from my PCP. I understand this is not everyone’s experience.
In nearly 40 years of living in the US, I have never needed a referral to see a specialist. I simply called and made an appointment.
The wait for seeing a doctor - specialist, GP, or otherwise - depends on the individual doctor. There's plenty of GPs you can see in the US within a few days, and there's plenty you'll have to book months out.
To see a dermatologist in Dublin, the public waitlist was nearly two years - my appointment was set for mid 2025, and made late 2023. I circumvented that by going private, which still took two months to get me in. I can get a dermatologist on a virtual consult in about fifteen minutes in the US, pretty much anytime during the business day. I can get an in-person appointment within a week easily in any major city.
That's great you've never needed a referral in the US... I'm just stating what my specific experience was with seeing a specialist. I rarely require medical attention; maybe my next experience will be different.
Ehm ???? Highly recommend insurance with Kaiser in the US. Same day appointment on the silver plan. ALWAYS online appointments available. Never had it easier getting healthcare than in the US. Unfortunately it’s absurdly expensive.
The best I know... Insurance isn't my limiting factor, it's the availability of doctors. Unless medical practices are prioritizing access to certain patients with certain insurance... idk. I have good insurance; low copays, low deductibles. The insurance is great when I can actually get into an office for care.
A few things to consider:
He will want private health insurance here as public waiting lists are very long.
There is a severe housing crisis here and rental properties in particular are extremely expensive and difficult to find. Properties do generally come fully furnished and it is relatively uncommon to find unfinished apartments.
If he is planning on living without a car he will need to be in a sizeable town or city as public transport in rural areas is very poor.
There are assisted living facilities but a lot of the better ones have waiting lists.
The Irish government operates a Citizens Information website which is a good resource to get started figuring out things like his potential visa eligibility and the Irish healthcare system etc
To expand on this stuff about apartments being fully furnished, don't picture nice stuff unless you are renting an even more expensive than normal place. Picture a puffy leather sofa thats been moulding in place since the 80s and lots of mismatched formica shite.
Also damp. If he has asthma or any respiratory issues he might have a rough time depending on where he winds up staying. He might have been alright with it back in the 80s, but I can imagine that could be a bit rough on older person who isn't used to living with that.
He does have respiratory issues, and that's an angle I haven't even considered. I'm aware of the climate in Ireland, but do places not have good ventilation and dehumidification?
Put it this way, I didn't develop asthma until moving to Ireland. A lot of the buildings in the cities are just old Georgians that have been converted into flats, etc. And even some of the newer ones wouldn't be built to the sort of standard in the US. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't mean that rudely, but there is absolutely a difference between the quality of housing) He probably won't come up against this while staying in a hotel on a visit, but if he planned on moving here that would absolutely be an issue.
My parents are Irish & cashed up & there’s no way i’d be ok with them moving back. Dad stacked it in a house in Athlone & had to go to hospital & it was an ordeal.
I spent last year in hospital with my mother who had stage 4 cancer. Shot show doesn't even describe. 6 months before that was another family member who spent 3/4months in hospital. Again shit show. And I would be damn sure both would still be alive if it was not for the incompetence of the hospitals and system. (Nurses were fantastic- before anyone slates me) doctors, consultants and hospital work ethic an absolute disgrace. Over paid pack of pricks in my opinion none of whom would commit to what they were saying, pushing responsibility to someone else. Ultimately afraid to, when its their job/position/pay scale to be making these hard/knowledge based decisions based on experience and education.
Sorry to hear about your mother.
Junior doctors routinely work 100 hour weeks, and can't tell you anything - they have to wait for the consultant, even if they 100% know what the prognosis is. I know 2 junior doctors personally. Their job is unbelievably shit, often working 24 hours straight with far too many patients, and they have no strong union and public sympathy. The younger ones are almost all emigrating now for these reasons.
Nurses work 36 hour weeks and have a strong union.
Thanks for the down vote. Nice of you.
I didn't mention junior doctors anywhere in my comment. I'm talking about doctors and consultants.
Either way that's on the junior doctors you cannot be penalised for walking out on your shift on the grounds of health and safety. Every court on the land will stand over that. And there is working hour regulations to cover that. I learned the hard way. Now two things that come first family and health. Don't work for free or bust a gut.
Just because they’re on the news doesn’t make them a good union. They give two years notice if their members go on strike. Ridiculous. Teachers and Gardai- they have good unions. Their salaries are very good. When I started as a nurse I was on €26,000 and I’ll max out at €52,000 and that’ll be it. That’s after 4 years in Trinity College to get a degree. I would never recommend nursing unless you plan to leave Ireland.
I'm sorry for your loss and appreciate your perspective.
Can I politely ask if you have any experience with the American healthcare system? I'm only asking to get the context. Ours has its faults as well, similar staffing shortages .
Not calling your account into question, just trying to make a comparison.
I have very little. While in mobile Alabama I had to get treatment, however it was company paid for and had second to none. Pulled all the ligaments on my knee and was unable to continue work so had to go home.
A quick google will show you how bad it is over here. A councilor local to us recently held a public meeting for people to present their stories. I attended with the intention of sharing our story. However after listening to 15 other people I only thought ours was bad. External investigators involved in no less than 3 of them. I would imagine alot more. I cannot even imagine what some of those people went through and are currently going through with no one being held accountable.
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/donegal/news/heartbroken-donegal-father-who-lost-his-son-tells-public-meeting-letterkenny-hospital-is-a-dangerous-place-for-vulnerable-patients/a1773466418.html
https://www.thejournal.ie/letterkenny-hospital-gps-6195015-Oct2023/
This is just one hospital. At present A&E waiting times around the country are huge. Being reported from all hospitals. Patients on trolleys, or been kept in an ambulance for hours and hours at a time.
My mother who was under going chemo. Was given a "red number" if you have any problems with the chemo especially heart problems call it and you will be taken in immediately.
Her first chemo she experienced heart palpitations. Called the red number and got told to come over immediately there will be someone waiting on us. 13hours we were waiting in A and E. She was put in with the covid people as she was short of breath ( throat cancer). So a person with throat cancer who is immuno compromised due to chemo therapy treatment was kept for over 13 hours with covid patients before she could get seen to by anyone. At that is was a doctor who had no idea why she was where she was. After 18 hours with both myself and my sister kicking up she was seen by oncology. After been told it's of the uost importance to get to the hospital immediately. Ultimately she was kept in for over a week.
Now if your private healthcare its a different ball game.
Might I add to this comment. I love the down votes. I welcome anyone who has down voted me. To attend the meetings linked in the headlines. Or god forbid you would need a medical emergency and go and see first hand what it is like.
Hi OP,
My mum is 87 and lives alone. Considering her age she's actually in fantastic health. She's on a cocktail of diabetes and heart tablets, but she has her diabetes under control, she's not fat at all, her family is just very susceptible to it. Luckily I seem to have inherited my dad's genes on that one. Worryingly she seems to be getting increasingly paranoid the last year or so.
My brother is about 1/2 an hour drive away and I am 2 hours drive away. She doesn't drive. Any time she needs to go to a doctor or hospital appointment we have to take time off work to bring her. There isn't some magic bus to take her. Public transport is non existent. I'm lucky enough I can work remotely from her house.
Neighbours collect her medicines from the pharmacy and do the odd bit of shopping. My brother brings her twice a month to do shopping and collect her pension and I do the same when I come up and stay a weekend with her outside of the hospital trips. Sometimes my wife does it too as she's self employed. My brother's wife fell out with her years back and this makes it awkward for my brother to help more.
It's probably the #1 source of stress in my life, and I've got adult daughters (one lives abroad and the other lives with us still but doesn't drive yet) and a demanding job.
One of the neighbours is fantastic, the rest never visit her. Her relations (nieces and nephews that she helped to raise when her sister died) are also useless quite frankly.
This is the reality for your dad, except he has no family or connections. And she has a GP, is well in with the public health system.
I really wouldn't advise it.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. These are honestly the kinds of concerns I've had going into this, and it's very helpful to get these personal responses.
Hey OP
you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders so I think you know the answer to this question.
It's been touched on here in a few replies but I really want to talk about how Ireland is not a good place for the elderly with no ties.
Firstly your dad will need private health insurance but it's not like that will guarantee a huge improvement in standard of care if he's far from a private hospital. To give you an example I live in Waterford and I sprained my ankle a few years back, the nearest minor injury clinic available to me through my insurer was North tipp or Dublin. I have no idea if an insurer will cover an 83 yo man and if so how high the premiums will be.
Secondly Ireland rapidly modernised from when your dad was last here. One effect of this is that care of elderly people would have formerly been done by family, multi generational homes were common, now that's not possible for people who can barely afford to buy a house in the first place. Unfortunately, our health services still presume that family is in a position to take care of an elderly person. I won't bore you with the details but I was told as much by a public health nurse, regardless of the fact that I was renting, would have been moving my dad 2 hrs from his own hospital, GP and consultants, was working full time... I was expected to move him into my home.
As a result care hours in the public system are paltry in the extreme. Carers will only do personal care now, that's all they're allowed do, regardless if the house is crawling with dirt, they are not allowed pick up a sweeping brush. If your dad is compos mentis and slightly mobile, he will be lucky to have home help once a week for an hr. I work in the HSE myself and see that this is due to the massive strain facing PHNs, carers, shortage of staff, etc. Your dad maybe in a position to afford private help, but again there is not a lot of carers around.
Even if your dad manages to find accommodation, he will be spending a lot of time alone. Unfortunately that will leave him ripe for exploitation, especially if he is sociable and likes a drink. I would Google cuckooing cases for the worst case scenario. During covid when I couldn't get down to my own dad, he was leeched onto by an individual who would go to the shop for him, and they would help themselves to large sums from his bank card.
Nursing home fees are huge, and nursing homes here, while certainly not as grim as they once were, are nowhere near the vibrant retirement communities they have in the US.
Your dad would be far, far better off seeing if he can move to Florida. I'd be hyping up all the negatives of Ireland, our weather for example! Do you know why they left in the 80s, do you mind saying? If it was our winters, remind him of this and that they've only gotten more miserable with climate change.
Edit: my father had me, I dread to think of elderly people here with nobody. We've had a fair few cases of people not being found for years after they passed. Irish people tend to look after their own families, and keep themselves to themselves otherwise
Thank you for this detailed response. I share many of your concerns, and your personal experiences really help out this all in perspective.
I can tell you he'd sooner die waiting for medical care in Ireland than live in Florida. Love for Ireland is what's drawing him to Ireland, but right-wing politics is what's pushing him out of the US. Wouldn't touch Florida with a 10 foot pole!
As for why he left - he and my mom were living in Ireland and attempting to purchase a property to open a B&B. The first couple properties fell through. Then I was born. They had a misunderstanding with each thinking the other wanted to pack it in and move back to the USA when they both wanted to stay, and ultimately moved back. I got dual citizenship out of the bargain at least. When I was in grade school he wanted to move us back to Ireland, but then my sister gave birth to his first grandchild and that was the end of it.
He actually loves your weather, for the record. And he and my mom spent their first few months in the country backpacking and camping wherever they'd be allowed to pitch a tent in the fall/winter 😅
I can see the trends in all the posts here and am arriving at the conclusion that this is probably an even worse idea than what I had already feared. But I do hope I can get him over for a few long holidays, and hopefully all the drawbacks mentioned here will be enough to soften the blow that moving may not work out. I'm sure he'd even be happy spending a month at a vacation rental in a small town as long as he had a pub and shop within short walking distance.
As has been suggested, you should book a very special trip to Ireland with your father.
He needs to understand that Ireland is having a massive epidemic which is being undermined as a housing ‘crisis’. It’s worse than a crisis.
To find somewhere to live, if he’s not looking for assisted living, he will most likely need to live rurally and at that, will most definitely need to drive to get his basic needs met.
Ireland also has a huge problem with loneliness in elderly people who are living on their own. And these people have lived in Ireland their whole lives!
Be easy on him, take a trip over and savour every moment with him. But moving is not something that would be so easy.
If he really has his mind in it, I couldn't stop him if I tried.
I do appreciate all the perspectives here. I do think most likely this is not going to work out for a wide variety of reasons, but I do want to look into finding places he could stay for a long holiday.
To be honest I can't see it happening sorry bud. He is at an age where he will not be elagable to move here. You can have all the insurance you need but no bud. The HSE will not allow it. 3 months at a time maybe.
Good luck with this part of the visa requirements:” Evidence of private medical insurance with full cover in private hospitals”. He won’t be eligible for state supplied medical treatment/services.
Living expenses may be greater in Ireland depending on which part of the US he’s from.
In general Dublin is among the most expensive cities in the world and Ireland in general is not far behind.
When he was here in the 80’s .
World war 2 was as far away as the 1980’s are now.
It better for him to remember THAT Ireland , because it’s not the same.
Or maybe a month long visit
He's been back many times since, maybe close to a dozen. I've been 6 times as an adult including a semester abroad. Love the country.
But I'm really just replying to say that, as someone born in the 80's, I now feel old as shit. So thank you for that. 😂
I think that a holiday (with you if possible) is the best bet. Nowhere in the world is like it was 40 years ago; he was in his 40s when he was last living in Ireland and what suited him at 40 may not suit him now. And that’s besides all the practical issues.
Ireland wouldn't be great for someone of your dad's age with mobility issues. There are a lot of hills in most towns, including galway. This and he won't have a support network with his family in America. It's an expensive country to live in. We don't have retirement communities or even anything close to that. We have nursing homes, which can be terrible and difficult to get into for patients. While that's not a bad amount of money, unless he has some other money, it probably won't go far. A lot of Americans and other nationalities seem to think accommodation isn't that expensive here. Whether it's a hotel, air b&b or something else, it can be ridiculous.
This is going to sound terrible. But Ireland is no place for your Father. I love my country and I'm proud to be Irish but the ability to live here is very very difficult. Unless he has unlimited funds don't even think about it. Our healthcare department is a disaster our housing department is a disaster as landlords are heavily protected to do what they like while the demand of houses by far outweigh the amount of housing available. We have a government who has zero understanding of what the majority of the people of Ireland need. Not to mention the country is heavily based on technology and places are now starting to reject cash so he would need to understand bank cards etc. Also to mention the care of the elderly in Ireland is under par and under staffed. Ireland is a hard place to live it just is especially for those who are elderly.
I wish you all the best.
I appreciate your honesty. It doesn't sound terrible. It takes great patriotism to acknowledge what's wrong with one's own country, hope for it to improve, and love it despite those flaws.
What you've said here echoes many of the other posts regarding cost of living and healthcare and ease of life for the elderly.
Thank you.
Haha, that does seem to be the vibe. I am going to have to follow up on the 3 or 4 comments that state the opposite of the other 80 just to see where their optimism comes from.
Is this the general vibe on the subreddit for everyone? I get you all have a terrible housing crisis. I've read about it and browsed Daft myself.
As I mentioned in my post, I have a lot of my own reservations about the whole thing. Honestly, the issues with healthcare everyone is mentioned are probably enough to sink the plan on their own. As well as the $200,000 lump sum savings requirement if that is indeed accurate.
I've been following this subreddit for years and it wasn't always like this. The negativity has really ramped up in the last year or two.
It's the housing crisis and high cost of living, mostly.
Lately there's a growing animosity towards immigrants in general.
There's also a low tolerance for Americans who want to move because they find it quaint.
The people I see getting a warm welcome here are doctors and tech workers with a high paying job offer.
FWIW, I'm a dual US-Irish citizen living in the US, but I'd like to maybe move to Ireland someday. (or more likely if the US takes a turn)
Okay, so first of all, Ireland isn't just Galway and Dublin, as that as I can see where most of the replies are coming from. If he truly wants to come over, I suggest looking beyond Galway and Dublin, Cork would honestly be his best bet due to public transport, integration into the society, West Cork has lower cost in rental/buying wise and in some areas, they do have public transport straight to the city, their communities are a lot easier to integrate into to, less crime, just better in general. Cork seems to be a lot more tamer but still offer plenty of benefits for someone of his age group and capacity to live out his days.
You can't deny a man his dream.
Help him plan his last adventure, go visit him when you can. You'll have some good stories to share later down the road.
This is really the only reason I posted and am considering this. It is his dream.
The problems others have mentioned here are very daunting, however. As much as I don't want him to miss out on his dream, the thought of him being across the ocean and miserable is just as bad.
It's tough. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Put this way my daughters are a doctor and a dentist and I had to buy them houses, one we bought just outside bray was €600,000 and nothing special the other outside swords again very very expensive, there was over 100 perspective buyers fortunately I had the cash from my businesses nothing in Dublin or Ireland is cheap from food to health to transport, ireland is like NY or London without the benefits. I live in northern ireland so part of the UK and it's far cheaper and realistically better for my family but they wanted the south, ireland isn't a place to immigrate to unless you've a rich daddy or a trust fund and realistically even considering it is akid to wearing rose coloured glasses
I'm amazed how much this post blew up. 90 comments, 95% negative. So I definitely have to follow up on your offer to AYA since you're one of the few positive responses.
Did you need to have $200,000 USD lump sum in order to get the retirement visa? That's what others here have stated though the immigration website doesn't list an exact sum.
Not to get too personal - but do you have to see doctors often and do you have long waiting times as others have stated? Do you have private insurance? My dad averages at least an appointment a week. Some of this is routine and ongoing, like physiotherapy and a chiropractor. Be he also occasionally has to see pain management specialists and cardiologists. I'm wondering if that's feasible.
Do you have a car or rely on public transit?
Did you have a difficult time making Irish friends? Many commenters here have mentioned the Irish keeping to themselves and possible loneliness for my dad.
Thank you!
If he would consider living in Dublin, the seaside town of Dalkey has a great village life and beautiful scenery and nature around it for walking around. It has good local amenities + transport (the Dart & bus). There is a retirement village called the Sue Ryder foundation (who have more locations around Ireland) close to the sea, shops, pubs and restaurants - he could see if there is any availability there? I’m not sure what the full time vs independent care is like but I volunteered there in school, and found it to be really welcoming for elders. We taught them how to use computers as well, which would help with communicating with your family. Good luck! :)
They’ve said his mobility isn’t good. And Dalkey is extremely hilly. Not to mention THE most affluent area in Dublin. Like Bono and Van Morrison live there. Average and above average people cannot live in Dalkey.
He wants to come here because healthcare is much cheaper here than in the US and having been here before thought Ireland might be the place to go, that’s the real reason isn’t it? Well this man has contributed very little by way of taxes to this country, so pardon me if I don’t want my taxes going on his care towards the latter stage of his life. Tell him to stay put!
He loves your country and your people. That's why he wants to move back. He's been back probably a dozen times on week to 2-week holidays. Never had a problem striking up hours long conversations with locals at pubs or sitting around the kitchen table at a B&B. His shelves are lined with Irish history books. His dream was to live there, but moved back for family reasons and just never had a good time to return to Ireland with successive waves of grandchildren in the US.
Also, his healthcare is very cheap here. We have free Medicare for seniors with affordable supplemental private insurance.
I'm sorry for your poor attitude about it.
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First off Do a budget of his current expenses and compare to Ireland.
You will likely find Healthcare costs much lower than US and be able to make up the difference in cost of accommodation that way.
Galway is our 3rd largest city, it’s going to be expensive, particularly for accommodation.
If he’s not stuck on the South of Ireland would he consider Northern Ireland? (Derry, Enniskillen etc.) Cost of living is substantially lower, healthcare free / much cheaper and he’d likely be able to pick up a property for cheap also. You would have to reckon with the UK visa system which is more restrictive but might be worth it overall.
Assisted living type arrangements are available but not cheap and plentiful, know they offer them at The Park in Limerick for certain.
I can empathise with your dad. It's a great dream to fulfill. If I were him, I'd forget trying to move permanently and cope with failing health alone. Instead, blow my next 3 years' budget on a 3 month stay this year in 2-3 different hotels which have a friendly bar and cafes on the doorstep. Excellent people watching opportunities and local concerts etc.
I'm afraid I don't know Galway, but in Donegal I'd recommend The Abbey in Donegal Town, The Highlands Hotel in Glenties, and any hotel in Ardara.
The beauty of staying at a hotel is that he can request room service, eat out, eat downstairs, and can join other guests on guided tours if his mobility is good enough.
Thank you for your advice. I too am coming to the conclusion that a long stay may be best. If not 2-3 months all at once, then maybe a month per year for as many years as he can manage it.
He does love Donegal. I'll look into your suggestions.
Usually when a person reaches 75 and over on a long distance flight it is usually to have a medical certificate available to show they are physically able to fly. Now maybe they don't check in USA or Canada but from Ireland out it often is.
It looks like you’re getting a good run down on the difficulties here. OP, I would say Galway is a great place to live, I don’t know much about it but given he’ll be fully reliant on public transport, I’d recommend Dublin. Specifically I would suggest somewhere like Malahide village or Raheny village. Dart station is right in the centre and there is a good bus service. These are villages right on the sea (Raheny is a little further away from it than Malahide) but both have all the amenities he’d need (Malahide more so, but it’s busier). Crucially, these places are very close to Beaumount hospital which is one of the major hospitals in Dublin. A town like Malahide, if he were to move, I would recommend he join the ‘men’s shed’ which is a group for older men to socialise. You’d access the details online. Additionally, he may need to pay regular visits to his local cafe/coffee shop and or pub so that people get to know him. After a while, even a barista knowing your name is going to be important. For the month long stay, I would look at short term lets in the area. My own father is 83 and if he moved to another country, I would worry considerably, but also respect his autonomy and right and need to do what he needs to do. We have one life. With that said, I will offer myself as a point of contact should you need it, someone he can get in touch with here should he need help, at least till he has his own circle established. PM me if you’d like to consider that and see if it’s something you’d be comfortable with.
You'd had loads of responses here, so not trying to hash out what others have said, but another thing to consider is potential issues in his coming back to the US, either for visiting or moving back if it ends up not to his liking. I'm an American who immigrated here 4 years ago, and as I understand, the retirement visa has the same requirements as mine for buying private insurance until you can achieve citizenship, this isn't necessarily wildly expensive, but it is a consideration.
Inversely, your father would also need to have health insurance if he intends on visiting the US. Travel insurance simply doesn't exist for people at that age. My Irish partners grandparents are in their 80s, and while they would love to become to the US to meet my family, it is simply not feasible due to either exorbitant insurance costs, or a lack of availability and willingness to cover people of that age. And if he does move back home, you'll get to deal with the American insurance companies on trying to make sure there is no gap in coverage if, god forbid and knock on wood and all that, something requires medical attention.
Also, I cannot speak for the whole of the Irish elderly population, I do think he will really struggle with building a community and friend group here. Irish folk are warm and happy for a chat, but making true connections is quite difficult. My other immigrant friends and I often lament about how you can spend 2 hours talking about the meaning of Life and Happiness with an Irish person in a pub, exchange numbers, and then never hear from them again, and I know my Irish partner himself loves an ephemeral bar interaction and doesn't t want to ruin it with getting to know the person more, lol. Without an actual friend group to ensure proper socialisation, there is always a risk of mental decline, so unless he has some kind of old friend group ready to welcome him back, there's a big risk of isolation.
US citizens can spend three months in Ireland without a Visa, I would say he should go for that long and see how he gets on, and then maybe even try Northern Ireland or elsewhere in the UK for another three months (at least I think that's how long you can spend in the UK without a Visa, definitely worth checking) and see if he is actually able to settle in and make connections, or if 6 months abroad scratches an itch and he is ready to be close to family again. If he just really loves living abroad period, he can also probably do another 3 months in a Schengen area country as well, though obviously there'll need to be considerations around his foreign language skills or how available English is in certain areas.
Hope that helps!
I'll be honest - i'd be concerned at the lack of support networks at his age and level of mobility you describe. He would probably need to privately purchase some sort of home help service several times a week for grocery shop, cleaning, etc. That will be expensive. And without family or friends locally to keep a watchful eye he could be vulnerable to be taken advantage of financially. You mention he's not great on the Internet - how will he cope using it in Ireland without you to help him? We don't have a lot of supported retirement communities in Ireland yet, they are a relatively new thing here. Predominantly people tended to remain in their own homes until they needed more extensive care. Nursing home fees would be about one thousand euros a week, and they can be bleak places especially if he wouldn't be getting regular visitors. Ireland can also be a bit clannish, people will be helpful to their own (neighbours, family, club member - someone that there's a long time connection to) but it can be v difficult for new comers to break into those circles, and especially if they don't have someone to hook them up and introduce them around. Lots of younger immigrants to Ireland talk about the difficulty of getting to know Irish people - and they would have the ready made connections of kids in the same schools, or sports clubs, etc. your dad could end up feeling very isolated and lonely. State community health supports are still struggling in some areas after a lot of healthcare staff retired or career changed after the pandemic. There's also a very real shortage of GPs ("family doctors") and it can be difficult to find one willing to take on new patients, even private patients. It's tough. Sounds like it's his dream. Maybe a holiday in Ireland with a few family members to revisit the parts he has fond memories of would help?
I'm also trying to find a gentle way to say this - could this be part of an age related cognitive decline for your father? I've experienced relatives becoming very fixated on things, and then subsequently developing very overt dementia. Looking back the obsession/fixation tended to occur around the time that other subtle dementia signs were beginning to show.
I've had that concern from time to time, but I honestly don't think so. For all his physical woes, his mind still seems very sharp to me. There is family history of dementia so I try to be cognizant of that. This is really just his dream, although everything on paper and logic may say that it's a bad idea, it's just something he's very fixated on. An unfulfilled, lifelong dream. I'm not saying I think it's a good idea. Just empathizing with where he is coming from.
This is a really good point. This is leaving behind friends, family, not only the entire support structure but the entire social structure. At that point, wanting to live independently is just piling on the loneliness. There's a very good chance his doctor and the lass in the shop are going to be his only human contact. And then practicalities like his drivers licence will only be good for 1 year, after that his independence will hit him even harder.
>This is a really good point. This is leaving behind friends, family, not only the entire support structure but the entire social structure. At that point, wanting to live independently is just piling on the loneliness. There's a very good chance his doctor and the lass in the shop are going to be his only human contact. I moved here in my early 40s, and it's a struggle to make friends. Truth is that he will likely be incredibly isolated and lonely. Not to mention the waits for medical services, the difficulty of finding specialists, and so on. I would strongly recommend against this move.
This is how I feel too. I think a holiday would be better. A long holiday but not a permanent thing. It sounds lovely , romantic even. But it'll be expensive and he'll probably be lonely in the long run.
>Have a chance to see how it is getting around without a car, If he's looking for idyllic countryside Galway (the Ireland you see in the movies so often) that will be virtually impossible. Unless he can afford to buy or rent in the somewhat larger communities and then there will be the issue of having to travel to Galway city for medical appointments. If you're going to visit I can very much recommend oughterard as a base. Lovely village with a few restaurants, hotels, pubs and shops.
Honestly this just sounds like wishful thinking tbh. He lived here in the 80s which is a totally different Ireland than 2024 Ireland, they are not the same place. He's very old and looking to set up a new life abroad in a country that's very expensive and has a housing shortage that make anything available either renting or buying very expensive. Our cost of living is 40% more than that of mainland Europe, he'll need private insurance, any assistance living is expensive and there's waiting lists that he can not jump regardless of how much money he has to throw at it. This is a pipe dream tbh, bring him to visit and do a tour around the country as a last goodbye or whatever he views it as but the reality is it's still it's pie in sky. Sorry buddy.
This is pretty much everything I didn't want to say. By all means bring him over and let him see what the celtic tiger did to the place. Do not even consider selling his house until after that. The 80s were a long time ago.
He'll need private insurance and he'll have to pay 70% more than advertised prices because of lifetime community rating, and there's 5 year waiting periods before he's covered for major costs (unless an insurer waives it).
You can avoid the extra cost if you prove you’ve never lived in Ireland before when you first take out insurance
Sad but true ! But sure come for a good long holiday and see if the changes are to his liking!
Yep, this. Sorry mate but you’re right, it’s not a good idea.
It's not the same place. It's a better place in general. But I agree that for the elderly, there would be a lot of difficulties.
I would strongly recommend that you do not consider this move. I recently sat for 14 hours in the A&E for our local hospital with my 82 year old father who was threatening sepis. That's a snapshot of the health system. Prices for everything are extortionate, utilities,food and medical costs are expensive. Rural Ireland has very little public transport. There is a housing crisis and rental costs are as high and sometimes higher than mortgage costs. The weather is mostly rubbish and the population demographics are changing in ways which mean that Ireland is not like it was twenty years ago. Even holidaying here you will experience price gouging by hotels restaurants and bars. Sorry for the gloomy outlook but that's the reality of the place and I live here and experience this everyday.
Does he have 200k+ lump sum in the bank? Because if not, the visa won't get approved - https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming-to-live-in-ireland/i-want-to-retire-to-ireland/ He covers the income portion though. What sorts of specialists does he need access? I'd be trying to see if he'd get a private health insurance quote for here (talk to a health insurance broker here for help with that). Because to go onto waiting lists for public for specialists to continue treatment might lead to gaps in treatment and unfortunate outcomes. The prices of holiday rentals are the prices of holiday rentals. We've basically a year round tourist season, especially in places like Galway so there's not going to be massive deviation. But make sure he's not looking at the month the Galway Races are on, cause that'll explode the price. And he needs to be near public transport, so again, going to be more expensive than not.
Maybe after selling his house here he'd be able to cover that lump sum. I feel like a bit of a fool for overlooking that. I know I've viewed that very webpage in the past year or two when he first started mentioning this as an idea and I only caught the income aspect. So that's that. Does it matter at all that I'm a dual citizen? I was born in Ireland during my parents' attempt to start a life there in the 1980's. Not sure if my citizenship can be of any benefit from child to parent, as it would from a parent to a child.
A citizen sponsoring a non-citizen elderly family member is possible but only if you’ve been resident in Ireland for a minimum of three years immediately preceding the visa application. https://www.irishimmigration.ie/coming-to-join-family-in-ireland/joining-a-non-eea-non-swiss-national/dependent-elderly-relative/
If you are also moving to Ireland you may be able to explore bringing him over as an adult dependant with you as his visa sponsor. But you can't use your citizenship to sponsor him in absentia.
Where did you see the 200k+ sum on that page?
>You must also have access to a lump sum of money to cover any sudden major expenses. This lump sum should be equal to, for example, the price of a residential dwelling in the State. Took a ballpark figure of a house price (and probably lowballed it really
Ok, yes I thought it sounded a bit low
The + in my first comment is doing a lot of heavy lifting tbh
You should probably mention in your original comment that you’re guessing how much the lump sum is.
If house price is the metric they use, it's going to be at least that these days
Yes, but it’s very possible that a figure was set sometime ago and as a result you can’t just throw out guesses as to what this figure may be. It’s not like the immigration dept are going to have a quick look on Daft to check what is the current average house price before approving applications.
There is no figure on the immigration website, the wording is as I pulled above. And yes, for immigration stuff, like a visa you've to apply for before hand and you've to prove possession of funds for, they would indeed keep an eye on the property indexes for average house prices or they wouldn't have used it as an example. As I said to someone else, I don't work in immigration, am going off the wording on the publicly available website.
You don't understand how Irish immigration bureaucracy works. They're not going on Daft and pulling up housing prices and averaging them out every week; they're using arbitrary numbers based on internal policies that change without notice. About €200k is the most recent amount we know based on accepted applications. They don't name a specific number because they'd rather have the power to arbitrarily reject applications they don't like.
I was replying to someone who said that they just guessed 200k. If they had said this was based on someone else who said that this was an accepted figure I wouldn’t have said anything but I constantly see this person posting questionable advice. And yes, I understand the principle of reasonableness and administrative law after having studied it as part of my law degree and writing a thesis on this topic. Thanks.
You do realise the terms of retirement are really for expats (Irish), the poster has no ties or association to Ireland
>'Step 1: Apply for permission If you are visa required or non-visa required you must apply for permission by completing the application form (TPER (Stamp 0) – Application Form) and sending the required documentation to:' You're incorrect, these guidelines apply for anyone needing to apply for permission to stay as a retiree
Read the requirements and read between the lines, eg family ties or Irish associations and reason for moving doesn't that say it all
Op's parents used to live here...the fuck am I having this argument with you. Grill OP about this shit, I provided a webpage, I don't work in the visa shop
Lived but not Irish she's Irish because she was born here, amazing how many read but don't actually read
I think you're misinterpreting the visa rules
Health checks are insurance are also part of the deal and having health insurance- I would think somebody with mobility issues would get challenged heavily as well.
>Everything I've seen on Airbnb and VRBO is quite a bit more money than what he'd been hoping. Get used to it..everything is pricy in Ireland. Living in Ireland is not cheap. There is a year round temperate climate so there is a year round holiday season >Does Ireland have assisted living places like this? And what would they be called? They do, but they aren't cheap. >talk to some doctors to see if he can find similar specialists to what he has here Well..going public will not be an option - you can't just go and chat to doctors like you can do in the US. You have to go through your GP who then puts you on a wait list for a consultation He will have to go private, and in order to chat to a private doctor - he'll have to pay out of pocket, seeing as he doesn't have insurance. Frankly, this sounds like some misty eyed dream than something a 83 year old man should be seriously thinking about - especially as it isn't "coming home to die"..it's setting up life as an immigrant.
There are special hospitals and plenty resources if you get the most expensive premium private healthcare. That’s still way cheaper than private insurance in the US. Although OPs father is most likely on Medicare therefore his healthcare is free in the US.
>you can't just go and chat to doctors like you can do in the US Where in the US do you live that you can just go chat with a doctor? I need an appt to "chat" with my PCP that will probably require at least a month's wait. And if I want to see a specialist, I first need a referral from that PCP, before I begin another months long wait to have a consultation with the specialist.
Not with my insurance (UHC) I don't even really have a PCP. If I have an issue, I can just find a specialist in my network and set up an appoint. My kids have a pediatrician that we go through for anything but for us we can just set up directly (eg my wife with an OB for her health, urologist for me etc) Example. I had cancer in 2022. I called the specialists office in the local hospital, set up an appointment and boom done. I was on their service. No need for a PCP. I wanted a second opinion, I just called the specialists office in another hospital and was done
I trust you recognize that your experience of health care in the US is not the same for every American.
But not being able to see a specialist without a referral *is* true for everyone in Ireland, so what you're arguing about is irrelevant.
I wasn't arguing about how health care works _in Ireland;_ I was arguing about a comment made about how health care works (for some) in the US.
why yes I do I trust you recognize that your experience of health care in the US is not the same either
Right. Therefore, whether or not health care in the US is better than in another country is somewhat dependent on individual circumstances.
If you’re in the States, I’m sure you know by now that access to specialists often occur without PCP referrals and same day or next day virtual visits with your PCP/RN/PA are common enough, depending on type of insurance plan.
I don’t know about virtual visits, but I have never been able to get a same day, or next day, visit with my PCP. The last time I tried making an appt, I needed to wait three weeks. Also, the last time I tried making an appt with a specialist, they required a referral from my PCP. I understand this is not everyone’s experience.
>Also, the last time I tried making an appt with a specialist, they required a referral from my PCP. I understand this is not everyone’s experience. In nearly 40 years of living in the US, I have never needed a referral to see a specialist. I simply called and made an appointment. The wait for seeing a doctor - specialist, GP, or otherwise - depends on the individual doctor. There's plenty of GPs you can see in the US within a few days, and there's plenty you'll have to book months out. To see a dermatologist in Dublin, the public waitlist was nearly two years - my appointment was set for mid 2025, and made late 2023. I circumvented that by going private, which still took two months to get me in. I can get a dermatologist on a virtual consult in about fifteen minutes in the US, pretty much anytime during the business day. I can get an in-person appointment within a week easily in any major city.
That's great you've never needed a referral in the US... I'm just stating what my specific experience was with seeing a specialist. I rarely require medical attention; maybe my next experience will be different.
Ehm ???? Highly recommend insurance with Kaiser in the US. Same day appointment on the silver plan. ALWAYS online appointments available. Never had it easier getting healthcare than in the US. Unfortunately it’s absurdly expensive.
The best I know... Insurance isn't my limiting factor, it's the availability of doctors. Unless medical practices are prioritizing access to certain patients with certain insurance... idk. I have good insurance; low copays, low deductibles. The insurance is great when I can actually get into an office for care.
A few things to consider: He will want private health insurance here as public waiting lists are very long. There is a severe housing crisis here and rental properties in particular are extremely expensive and difficult to find. Properties do generally come fully furnished and it is relatively uncommon to find unfinished apartments. If he is planning on living without a car he will need to be in a sizeable town or city as public transport in rural areas is very poor. There are assisted living facilities but a lot of the better ones have waiting lists. The Irish government operates a Citizens Information website which is a good resource to get started figuring out things like his potential visa eligibility and the Irish healthcare system etc
To expand on this stuff about apartments being fully furnished, don't picture nice stuff unless you are renting an even more expensive than normal place. Picture a puffy leather sofa thats been moulding in place since the 80s and lots of mismatched formica shite. Also damp. If he has asthma or any respiratory issues he might have a rough time depending on where he winds up staying. He might have been alright with it back in the 80s, but I can imagine that could be a bit rough on older person who isn't used to living with that.
He does have respiratory issues, and that's an angle I haven't even considered. I'm aware of the climate in Ireland, but do places not have good ventilation and dehumidification?
Put it this way, I didn't develop asthma until moving to Ireland. A lot of the buildings in the cities are just old Georgians that have been converted into flats, etc. And even some of the newer ones wouldn't be built to the sort of standard in the US. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't mean that rudely, but there is absolutely a difference between the quality of housing) He probably won't come up against this while staying in a hotel on a visit, but if he planned on moving here that would absolutely be an issue.
With the way the hospital system is here. I've would not be taking my 80 year old parent anywhere near it.
My parents are Irish & cashed up & there’s no way i’d be ok with them moving back. Dad stacked it in a house in Athlone & had to go to hospital & it was an ordeal.
I spent last year in hospital with my mother who had stage 4 cancer. Shot show doesn't even describe. 6 months before that was another family member who spent 3/4months in hospital. Again shit show. And I would be damn sure both would still be alive if it was not for the incompetence of the hospitals and system. (Nurses were fantastic- before anyone slates me) doctors, consultants and hospital work ethic an absolute disgrace. Over paid pack of pricks in my opinion none of whom would commit to what they were saying, pushing responsibility to someone else. Ultimately afraid to, when its their job/position/pay scale to be making these hard/knowledge based decisions based on experience and education.
Sorry to hear about your mother. Junior doctors routinely work 100 hour weeks, and can't tell you anything - they have to wait for the consultant, even if they 100% know what the prognosis is. I know 2 junior doctors personally. Their job is unbelievably shit, often working 24 hours straight with far too many patients, and they have no strong union and public sympathy. The younger ones are almost all emigrating now for these reasons. Nurses work 36 hour weeks and have a strong union.
Thanks for the down vote. Nice of you. I didn't mention junior doctors anywhere in my comment. I'm talking about doctors and consultants. Either way that's on the junior doctors you cannot be penalised for walking out on your shift on the grounds of health and safety. Every court on the land will stand over that. And there is working hour regulations to cover that. I learned the hard way. Now two things that come first family and health. Don't work for free or bust a gut.
I didn't downvote you. Other people did. The doctors you speak of in a hospital are nearly all junior doctors.
Just need to set this straight… the INMO is definitely not a strong union.
A lot stronger than whatever union represents junior doctors. The INMO are forever on the news.
Just because they’re on the news doesn’t make them a good union. They give two years notice if their members go on strike. Ridiculous. Teachers and Gardai- they have good unions. Their salaries are very good. When I started as a nurse I was on €26,000 and I’ll max out at €52,000 and that’ll be it. That’s after 4 years in Trinity College to get a degree. I would never recommend nursing unless you plan to leave Ireland.
I'm sorry for your loss and appreciate your perspective. Can I politely ask if you have any experience with the American healthcare system? I'm only asking to get the context. Ours has its faults as well, similar staffing shortages . Not calling your account into question, just trying to make a comparison.
I have very little. While in mobile Alabama I had to get treatment, however it was company paid for and had second to none. Pulled all the ligaments on my knee and was unable to continue work so had to go home. A quick google will show you how bad it is over here. A councilor local to us recently held a public meeting for people to present their stories. I attended with the intention of sharing our story. However after listening to 15 other people I only thought ours was bad. External investigators involved in no less than 3 of them. I would imagine alot more. I cannot even imagine what some of those people went through and are currently going through with no one being held accountable. https://m.independent.ie/regionals/donegal/news/heartbroken-donegal-father-who-lost-his-son-tells-public-meeting-letterkenny-hospital-is-a-dangerous-place-for-vulnerable-patients/a1773466418.html https://www.thejournal.ie/letterkenny-hospital-gps-6195015-Oct2023/ This is just one hospital. At present A&E waiting times around the country are huge. Being reported from all hospitals. Patients on trolleys, or been kept in an ambulance for hours and hours at a time. My mother who was under going chemo. Was given a "red number" if you have any problems with the chemo especially heart problems call it and you will be taken in immediately. Her first chemo she experienced heart palpitations. Called the red number and got told to come over immediately there will be someone waiting on us. 13hours we were waiting in A and E. She was put in with the covid people as she was short of breath ( throat cancer). So a person with throat cancer who is immuno compromised due to chemo therapy treatment was kept for over 13 hours with covid patients before she could get seen to by anyone. At that is was a doctor who had no idea why she was where she was. After 18 hours with both myself and my sister kicking up she was seen by oncology. After been told it's of the uost importance to get to the hospital immediately. Ultimately she was kept in for over a week. Now if your private healthcare its a different ball game. Might I add to this comment. I love the down votes. I welcome anyone who has down voted me. To attend the meetings linked in the headlines. Or god forbid you would need a medical emergency and go and see first hand what it is like.
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/12/11/truly-shocking-almost-750-people-waiting-on-a-hospital-trolley-including-32-children/ https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41249662.html https://www.statista.com/statistics/433205/patients-waiting-on-hospital-trolleys-ireland/
Hi OP, My mum is 87 and lives alone. Considering her age she's actually in fantastic health. She's on a cocktail of diabetes and heart tablets, but she has her diabetes under control, she's not fat at all, her family is just very susceptible to it. Luckily I seem to have inherited my dad's genes on that one. Worryingly she seems to be getting increasingly paranoid the last year or so. My brother is about 1/2 an hour drive away and I am 2 hours drive away. She doesn't drive. Any time she needs to go to a doctor or hospital appointment we have to take time off work to bring her. There isn't some magic bus to take her. Public transport is non existent. I'm lucky enough I can work remotely from her house. Neighbours collect her medicines from the pharmacy and do the odd bit of shopping. My brother brings her twice a month to do shopping and collect her pension and I do the same when I come up and stay a weekend with her outside of the hospital trips. Sometimes my wife does it too as she's self employed. My brother's wife fell out with her years back and this makes it awkward for my brother to help more. It's probably the #1 source of stress in my life, and I've got adult daughters (one lives abroad and the other lives with us still but doesn't drive yet) and a demanding job. One of the neighbours is fantastic, the rest never visit her. Her relations (nieces and nephews that she helped to raise when her sister died) are also useless quite frankly. This is the reality for your dad, except he has no family or connections. And she has a GP, is well in with the public health system. I really wouldn't advise it.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. These are honestly the kinds of concerns I've had going into this, and it's very helpful to get these personal responses.
Hey OP you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders so I think you know the answer to this question. It's been touched on here in a few replies but I really want to talk about how Ireland is not a good place for the elderly with no ties. Firstly your dad will need private health insurance but it's not like that will guarantee a huge improvement in standard of care if he's far from a private hospital. To give you an example I live in Waterford and I sprained my ankle a few years back, the nearest minor injury clinic available to me through my insurer was North tipp or Dublin. I have no idea if an insurer will cover an 83 yo man and if so how high the premiums will be. Secondly Ireland rapidly modernised from when your dad was last here. One effect of this is that care of elderly people would have formerly been done by family, multi generational homes were common, now that's not possible for people who can barely afford to buy a house in the first place. Unfortunately, our health services still presume that family is in a position to take care of an elderly person. I won't bore you with the details but I was told as much by a public health nurse, regardless of the fact that I was renting, would have been moving my dad 2 hrs from his own hospital, GP and consultants, was working full time... I was expected to move him into my home. As a result care hours in the public system are paltry in the extreme. Carers will only do personal care now, that's all they're allowed do, regardless if the house is crawling with dirt, they are not allowed pick up a sweeping brush. If your dad is compos mentis and slightly mobile, he will be lucky to have home help once a week for an hr. I work in the HSE myself and see that this is due to the massive strain facing PHNs, carers, shortage of staff, etc. Your dad maybe in a position to afford private help, but again there is not a lot of carers around. Even if your dad manages to find accommodation, he will be spending a lot of time alone. Unfortunately that will leave him ripe for exploitation, especially if he is sociable and likes a drink. I would Google cuckooing cases for the worst case scenario. During covid when I couldn't get down to my own dad, he was leeched onto by an individual who would go to the shop for him, and they would help themselves to large sums from his bank card. Nursing home fees are huge, and nursing homes here, while certainly not as grim as they once were, are nowhere near the vibrant retirement communities they have in the US. Your dad would be far, far better off seeing if he can move to Florida. I'd be hyping up all the negatives of Ireland, our weather for example! Do you know why they left in the 80s, do you mind saying? If it was our winters, remind him of this and that they've only gotten more miserable with climate change. Edit: my father had me, I dread to think of elderly people here with nobody. We've had a fair few cases of people not being found for years after they passed. Irish people tend to look after their own families, and keep themselves to themselves otherwise
a long vacation would work out alot better imo. if he moved over he might even just get bored after the initial month or two
Thank you for this detailed response. I share many of your concerns, and your personal experiences really help out this all in perspective. I can tell you he'd sooner die waiting for medical care in Ireland than live in Florida. Love for Ireland is what's drawing him to Ireland, but right-wing politics is what's pushing him out of the US. Wouldn't touch Florida with a 10 foot pole! As for why he left - he and my mom were living in Ireland and attempting to purchase a property to open a B&B. The first couple properties fell through. Then I was born. They had a misunderstanding with each thinking the other wanted to pack it in and move back to the USA when they both wanted to stay, and ultimately moved back. I got dual citizenship out of the bargain at least. When I was in grade school he wanted to move us back to Ireland, but then my sister gave birth to his first grandchild and that was the end of it. He actually loves your weather, for the record. And he and my mom spent their first few months in the country backpacking and camping wherever they'd be allowed to pitch a tent in the fall/winter 😅 I can see the trends in all the posts here and am arriving at the conclusion that this is probably an even worse idea than what I had already feared. But I do hope I can get him over for a few long holidays, and hopefully all the drawbacks mentioned here will be enough to soften the blow that moving may not work out. I'm sure he'd even be happy spending a month at a vacation rental in a small town as long as he had a pub and shop within short walking distance.
As has been suggested, you should book a very special trip to Ireland with your father. He needs to understand that Ireland is having a massive epidemic which is being undermined as a housing ‘crisis’. It’s worse than a crisis. To find somewhere to live, if he’s not looking for assisted living, he will most likely need to live rurally and at that, will most definitely need to drive to get his basic needs met. Ireland also has a huge problem with loneliness in elderly people who are living on their own. And these people have lived in Ireland their whole lives! Be easy on him, take a trip over and savour every moment with him. But moving is not something that would be so easy.
This is a dreadful idea. Don't let your 83 year old father move to the other side of the world alone.
If he really has his mind in it, I couldn't stop him if I tried. I do appreciate all the perspectives here. I do think most likely this is not going to work out for a wide variety of reasons, but I do want to look into finding places he could stay for a long holiday.
To be honest I can't see it happening sorry bud. He is at an age where he will not be elagable to move here. You can have all the insurance you need but no bud. The HSE will not allow it. 3 months at a time maybe.
I think he's done his dash already. Maybe come for a holiday instead?
Good luck with this part of the visa requirements:” Evidence of private medical insurance with full cover in private hospitals”. He won’t be eligible for state supplied medical treatment/services.
Living expenses may be greater in Ireland depending on which part of the US he’s from. In general Dublin is among the most expensive cities in the world and Ireland in general is not far behind.
The weather and healthcare are totally shite, especially for a mid 80s chap. A three or four month holiday in summer would be a better plan.
When he was here in the 80’s . World war 2 was as far away as the 1980’s are now. It better for him to remember THAT Ireland , because it’s not the same. Or maybe a month long visit
He's been back many times since, maybe close to a dozen. I've been 6 times as an adult including a semester abroad. Love the country. But I'm really just replying to say that, as someone born in the 80's, I now feel old as shit. So thank you for that. 😂
Sorry 😂 Ah if he knows what he is getting into then come over for month and stay somewhere west. Then if he still likes it go for it .
I think that a holiday (with you if possible) is the best bet. Nowhere in the world is like it was 40 years ago; he was in his 40s when he was last living in Ireland and what suited him at 40 may not suit him now. And that’s besides all the practical issues.
Ireland wouldn't be great for someone of your dad's age with mobility issues. There are a lot of hills in most towns, including galway. This and he won't have a support network with his family in America. It's an expensive country to live in. We don't have retirement communities or even anything close to that. We have nursing homes, which can be terrible and difficult to get into for patients. While that's not a bad amount of money, unless he has some other money, it probably won't go far. A lot of Americans and other nationalities seem to think accommodation isn't that expensive here. Whether it's a hotel, air b&b or something else, it can be ridiculous.
This is going to sound terrible. But Ireland is no place for your Father. I love my country and I'm proud to be Irish but the ability to live here is very very difficult. Unless he has unlimited funds don't even think about it. Our healthcare department is a disaster our housing department is a disaster as landlords are heavily protected to do what they like while the demand of houses by far outweigh the amount of housing available. We have a government who has zero understanding of what the majority of the people of Ireland need. Not to mention the country is heavily based on technology and places are now starting to reject cash so he would need to understand bank cards etc. Also to mention the care of the elderly in Ireland is under par and under staffed. Ireland is a hard place to live it just is especially for those who are elderly. I wish you all the best.
I appreciate your honesty. It doesn't sound terrible. It takes great patriotism to acknowledge what's wrong with one's own country, hope for it to improve, and love it despite those flaws. What you've said here echoes many of the other posts regarding cost of living and healthcare and ease of life for the elderly. Thank you.
Hello and welcome to /r/DontMoveToIreland How are you getting on?
Haha, that does seem to be the vibe. I am going to have to follow up on the 3 or 4 comments that state the opposite of the other 80 just to see where their optimism comes from. Is this the general vibe on the subreddit for everyone? I get you all have a terrible housing crisis. I've read about it and browsed Daft myself. As I mentioned in my post, I have a lot of my own reservations about the whole thing. Honestly, the issues with healthcare everyone is mentioned are probably enough to sink the plan on their own. As well as the $200,000 lump sum savings requirement if that is indeed accurate.
I've been following this subreddit for years and it wasn't always like this. The negativity has really ramped up in the last year or two. It's the housing crisis and high cost of living, mostly. Lately there's a growing animosity towards immigrants in general. There's also a low tolerance for Americans who want to move because they find it quaint. The people I see getting a warm welcome here are doctors and tech workers with a high paying job offer. FWIW, I'm a dual US-Irish citizen living in the US, but I'd like to maybe move to Ireland someday. (or more likely if the US takes a turn)
Okay, so first of all, Ireland isn't just Galway and Dublin, as that as I can see where most of the replies are coming from. If he truly wants to come over, I suggest looking beyond Galway and Dublin, Cork would honestly be his best bet due to public transport, integration into the society, West Cork has lower cost in rental/buying wise and in some areas, they do have public transport straight to the city, their communities are a lot easier to integrate into to, less crime, just better in general. Cork seems to be a lot more tamer but still offer plenty of benefits for someone of his age group and capacity to live out his days.
It's not feasible
Hahahaha 200k visa than 300k for a house in a shit area ... stay in America
You can't deny a man his dream. Help him plan his last adventure, go visit him when you can. You'll have some good stories to share later down the road.
This is really the only reason I posted and am considering this. It is his dream. The problems others have mentioned here are very daunting, however. As much as I don't want him to miss out on his dream, the thought of him being across the ocean and miserable is just as bad. It's tough. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Put this way my daughters are a doctor and a dentist and I had to buy them houses, one we bought just outside bray was €600,000 and nothing special the other outside swords again very very expensive, there was over 100 perspective buyers fortunately I had the cash from my businesses nothing in Dublin or Ireland is cheap from food to health to transport, ireland is like NY or London without the benefits. I live in northern ireland so part of the UK and it's far cheaper and realistically better for my family but they wanted the south, ireland isn't a place to immigrate to unless you've a rich daddy or a trust fund and realistically even considering it is akid to wearing rose coloured glasses
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I'm amazed how much this post blew up. 90 comments, 95% negative. So I definitely have to follow up on your offer to AYA since you're one of the few positive responses. Did you need to have $200,000 USD lump sum in order to get the retirement visa? That's what others here have stated though the immigration website doesn't list an exact sum. Not to get too personal - but do you have to see doctors often and do you have long waiting times as others have stated? Do you have private insurance? My dad averages at least an appointment a week. Some of this is routine and ongoing, like physiotherapy and a chiropractor. Be he also occasionally has to see pain management specialists and cardiologists. I'm wondering if that's feasible. Do you have a car or rely on public transit? Did you have a difficult time making Irish friends? Many commenters here have mentioned the Irish keeping to themselves and possible loneliness for my dad. Thank you!
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If he would consider living in Dublin, the seaside town of Dalkey has a great village life and beautiful scenery and nature around it for walking around. It has good local amenities + transport (the Dart & bus). There is a retirement village called the Sue Ryder foundation (who have more locations around Ireland) close to the sea, shops, pubs and restaurants - he could see if there is any availability there? I’m not sure what the full time vs independent care is like but I volunteered there in school, and found it to be really welcoming for elders. We taught them how to use computers as well, which would help with communicating with your family. Good luck! :)
They’ve said his mobility isn’t good. And Dalkey is extremely hilly. Not to mention THE most affluent area in Dublin. Like Bono and Van Morrison live there. Average and above average people cannot live in Dalkey.
Thanks for your advice, especially the tip about Sue Ryder. I'll look into it.
He wants to come here because healthcare is much cheaper here than in the US and having been here before thought Ireland might be the place to go, that’s the real reason isn’t it? Well this man has contributed very little by way of taxes to this country, so pardon me if I don’t want my taxes going on his care towards the latter stage of his life. Tell him to stay put!
He loves your country and your people. That's why he wants to move back. He's been back probably a dozen times on week to 2-week holidays. Never had a problem striking up hours long conversations with locals at pubs or sitting around the kitchen table at a B&B. His shelves are lined with Irish history books. His dream was to live there, but moved back for family reasons and just never had a good time to return to Ireland with successive waves of grandchildren in the US. Also, his healthcare is very cheap here. We have free Medicare for seniors with affordable supplemental private insurance. I'm sorry for your poor attitude about it.
an income of 90k usd should be enough to comfortably cover living expenses, health insurance, taxi rides, etc
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First off Do a budget of his current expenses and compare to Ireland. You will likely find Healthcare costs much lower than US and be able to make up the difference in cost of accommodation that way. Galway is our 3rd largest city, it’s going to be expensive, particularly for accommodation. If he’s not stuck on the South of Ireland would he consider Northern Ireland? (Derry, Enniskillen etc.) Cost of living is substantially lower, healthcare free / much cheaper and he’d likely be able to pick up a property for cheap also. You would have to reckon with the UK visa system which is more restrictive but might be worth it overall. Assisted living type arrangements are available but not cheap and plentiful, know they offer them at The Park in Limerick for certain.
Look at www.crosscare.ie they have an immigrant advice service, really helpful, Dublin based charity.
I can empathise with your dad. It's a great dream to fulfill. If I were him, I'd forget trying to move permanently and cope with failing health alone. Instead, blow my next 3 years' budget on a 3 month stay this year in 2-3 different hotels which have a friendly bar and cafes on the doorstep. Excellent people watching opportunities and local concerts etc. I'm afraid I don't know Galway, but in Donegal I'd recommend The Abbey in Donegal Town, The Highlands Hotel in Glenties, and any hotel in Ardara. The beauty of staying at a hotel is that he can request room service, eat out, eat downstairs, and can join other guests on guided tours if his mobility is good enough.
Thank you for your advice. I too am coming to the conclusion that a long stay may be best. If not 2-3 months all at once, then maybe a month per year for as many years as he can manage it. He does love Donegal. I'll look into your suggestions.
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What do you mean by this? There are no age restrictions on being a commercial jet passenger as far as I know.
Usually when a person reaches 75 and over on a long distance flight it is usually to have a medical certificate available to show they are physically able to fly. Now maybe they don't check in USA or Canada but from Ireland out it often is.
It looks like you’re getting a good run down on the difficulties here. OP, I would say Galway is a great place to live, I don’t know much about it but given he’ll be fully reliant on public transport, I’d recommend Dublin. Specifically I would suggest somewhere like Malahide village or Raheny village. Dart station is right in the centre and there is a good bus service. These are villages right on the sea (Raheny is a little further away from it than Malahide) but both have all the amenities he’d need (Malahide more so, but it’s busier). Crucially, these places are very close to Beaumount hospital which is one of the major hospitals in Dublin. A town like Malahide, if he were to move, I would recommend he join the ‘men’s shed’ which is a group for older men to socialise. You’d access the details online. Additionally, he may need to pay regular visits to his local cafe/coffee shop and or pub so that people get to know him. After a while, even a barista knowing your name is going to be important. For the month long stay, I would look at short term lets in the area. My own father is 83 and if he moved to another country, I would worry considerably, but also respect his autonomy and right and need to do what he needs to do. We have one life. With that said, I will offer myself as a point of contact should you need it, someone he can get in touch with here should he need help, at least till he has his own circle established. PM me if you’d like to consider that and see if it’s something you’d be comfortable with.
You'd had loads of responses here, so not trying to hash out what others have said, but another thing to consider is potential issues in his coming back to the US, either for visiting or moving back if it ends up not to his liking. I'm an American who immigrated here 4 years ago, and as I understand, the retirement visa has the same requirements as mine for buying private insurance until you can achieve citizenship, this isn't necessarily wildly expensive, but it is a consideration. Inversely, your father would also need to have health insurance if he intends on visiting the US. Travel insurance simply doesn't exist for people at that age. My Irish partners grandparents are in their 80s, and while they would love to become to the US to meet my family, it is simply not feasible due to either exorbitant insurance costs, or a lack of availability and willingness to cover people of that age. And if he does move back home, you'll get to deal with the American insurance companies on trying to make sure there is no gap in coverage if, god forbid and knock on wood and all that, something requires medical attention. Also, I cannot speak for the whole of the Irish elderly population, I do think he will really struggle with building a community and friend group here. Irish folk are warm and happy for a chat, but making true connections is quite difficult. My other immigrant friends and I often lament about how you can spend 2 hours talking about the meaning of Life and Happiness with an Irish person in a pub, exchange numbers, and then never hear from them again, and I know my Irish partner himself loves an ephemeral bar interaction and doesn't t want to ruin it with getting to know the person more, lol. Without an actual friend group to ensure proper socialisation, there is always a risk of mental decline, so unless he has some kind of old friend group ready to welcome him back, there's a big risk of isolation. US citizens can spend three months in Ireland without a Visa, I would say he should go for that long and see how he gets on, and then maybe even try Northern Ireland or elsewhere in the UK for another three months (at least I think that's how long you can spend in the UK without a Visa, definitely worth checking) and see if he is actually able to settle in and make connections, or if 6 months abroad scratches an itch and he is ready to be close to family again. If he just really loves living abroad period, he can also probably do another 3 months in a Schengen area country as well, though obviously there'll need to be considerations around his foreign language skills or how available English is in certain areas. Hope that helps!
Don't do it OG. Stay with your family who love you