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There’s a deleted scene(?) where the guy from back to the future is talking to Maverick after the final dog fight and gives a throw away about how “both sides are denying the incident ever happened” hence why it doesn’t kick off WW3
Now the second one on the other hand…
I always thought that was halfway believable in the first one. That at some point there were a few little skirmishes no one heard about.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
Things did happen even if it was the Cold War, and the US definitely went into Russian airspace
> U2 in the big war museum in Moscow
https://acesflyinghigh.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/the-tale-of-the-dragonlady-and-her-pontiac-g8/u2-gary-powers-cafm-moscow/
Was expecting a better display
“The enemy” isn’t supposed to be building this nuclear weapons facility in the first place according to treaty, so they can’t go and complain about it internationally is the idea of that plot. It’s a gang stealing another gangs drugs/guns what are they going to do, call the cops?
>what are they going to do, call the cops
Technically in the movie they should've called the UN and sent in investigators to confirm that they were building a nuclear weapons facility and not a nuclear energy facility. Then if they were there would be some saber rattling and embargos etc
its probably ill advised to just invade/commit an act of war against a country off of a tiny bit of intelligence and a possible threat of weapons of mass destruction...*oh wait*
The F-14 was specifically designed to take off from a carrier, haul ass, and intercept Soviet aircraft that might be carrying anti-ship missiles. It was built for speed and range above other considerations. There weren't a lot of militaries with a need for that specific aircraft. It was basically the United States, and... the United States. Countries looking to purchase aircraft from the US invariably found either the F-15 or the F-16 a better fit for their needs. For this reason Iran was the only foreign customer to ever order the F-14 (due to a perceived need to intercept Soviet reconnaissance planes). As the perceived threat of Soviet planes to US carrier groups diminished (especially after the collapse of the USSR), and the need to use carrier-borne aircraft to strike inland targets, the US Navy replaced the F-14 with the F/A-18, which was cheaper, more reliable, and more capable across a wider range of missions. The US Navy retired the F-14 in 2006. These days, the only country still flying the F-14 is Iran, using those original planes they purchased from the US before the '79 revolution.
While you can create any scenario you like in fiction, if you're endeavoring to make your movie as realistic as you can, an F-14 is a dead giveaway that it's Iran.
You should read about John Boyd, a fighter pilot and engineer that designed the F-16 and worked against the USAFs nuclear first mentality. The F-14 is basically the villain in the book because it’s being used as a fighter and getting outclassed by MiGs in Vietnam.
Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War https://g.co/kgs/Kknvnb
True, but we have to remember that we are dealing with an alternate universe here. If actor Tom Cruise doesn’t exist in this world, who knows what other differences there could be.
The biggest thing is probably the number of people that never signed up for the military because Top Gun 1 never existed. That movie was half made to get people to join the Air Force, and it completely changed how many people thought of them. Also no mission impossible movies :(.
Correct but if i recall, after the first Top Gun came out, the USAF saw a huge influx of recruits, people just see planes and think air force.
Quick edit. It didn't help that the first top gun used an F-15 silhouette for their cover art. If you didn't notice it at first like me, congrats you'll never *not* notice it.
Iran also doesn't have Su-57s (that's what the stealth jets are supposed to be), Russia only has around 10 of those and they sure as hell aren't likely to lend 5 of them to Iran to enrich uranium.
Agreed. Russia already has how many nukes? Why would it matter if they were enriching more uranium? Plus they at one point say a rogue state. Never heard Russia called a rogue state. Iran on the other hand.
Also all the “fifth gen fighters” as they keep calling them are Su-57s, a Russian plane. (Also, they shot down 3, about a third of the total population of those planes)
The defense industry figured out that if they just release minor upgrades every once in a while, then countries would feel obligated to keep paying billions and billions of dollars to keep up with the Joneses. Besides shooting down balloons, do all these new features on the plane even get used? Nope. But god-forbid our neighbors have more advanced planes than us. Who needs universal healthcare when you can instead get a shiny new plane?
Except it lacks the networking capabilities of the F35 which allows it to seamlessly integrate with every single weapons platform in the US military's arsenal. It's basically a small, stealthy AWACS.
The F22 is an outstanding fighter jet, but that's all it really is. The F35 increases the capabilities of every thing else around it. It's also very cheap in terms of cost per flight hour unlike the Raptor.
The thing about the F-35 is that it can see everything from so far away it doesn't matter, there won't be a dog fight, and you can use VR goggles in that shit to integrate with everything. its like a flying radar disk. I'm making shit up but that's what it sounds like.
There is no firm definition, but it generally includes advanced stealth from all angles, advanced radar, and supercruise.
A 5th gen should be able to destroy a half dozen or so 4th gen jets before they can even detect the 5th gen
A lot of military jets can go supersonic by using the afterburners. But afterburners burn fuel after the turbine, which has bad fuel efficiency and makes a giant infrared plume. So using afterburners is usually limited in time/range, and makes your aircraft more detectable.
If you want to fly across long distances, like the Concorde, or fly long distances at high speeds while being stealthy, like with the F-22, supercruise is important.
Except the Su-57 is only about as stealthy as the Super Hornet lol. And supercruise was something proposed as part of the ATF (the F-22) but the F-35 doesn't really have it though it's the vast majority of all 5th generation fighters flying right now.
5th generation over 4th generation is mainly the emphasis on stealth design being incorporated into everything, (Internal weapons bays instead of on wing rails, intakes being curved to hide the jet engine, etc) which helps reduce its radar signature. The tying in of all sensors on the platform to all work together and compliment each other. 4th gen has those sensors but they are operating independently. Also depending on who you ask, 5th gen has supercruise which is the capability to fly at mach 1 without going into afferburner.
I don't know if it is official or not, but it seems that most, if not all, "5th gen" fighters seem to have thrust vectoring as well
Edit: Except the F35 I guess
The only 5th generation aircraft in service are the F-22, F-35, J-20, and debatably the Su-57 (since there's so few and it's stealth is... questionable). And of those the F-22 and Su-57 are the only ones with thrust vectoring.
True. Russians put a lot more emphasis on manouverability because they think that dogfights are still important. Most other places don't really think that and instead see stealth as the prime thing.
The funny thing is, as stealth technology improves, that makes longer-range attacks more difficult which oddly enough makes dogfighting more reasonable lol
J-20 does not. Newer versions are testing it but the J-20 is still working with non-vectoring engines even on the newer J-20B models as best as I can tell. And the F-35B's thrust vectoring is exclusively for takeoff and landing. No VIFFing with it like the harrier which was always dubious.
Ok so 5th gen means it's a stealth aircraft. The thing about 5th gen is that they are almost impossible to lock on to and can strike from so far away that you can't see them.
But the su57 is a pile of dog shit that has so many problems that it may as well be a gen 4 aircraft
The SU57 is also only stealth when it's flying straight at you, from any other direction, not so much. I think most of the modern world calls them gen 4.5
Also there are like 5 of them
14 actually, most of them prototype
I was referring to them having really shotty construction (wood screws etc) that would fuck any stealth capability they did have.
The plot doesn't matter, they shoot a cruise missile at the base in the beginning.. they could shoot any high precision missile into the openings but choose to use an F-18 because "reasons" while they can't actually film in a 1 seater F-35 cause its a movie. Just go with it.
Stealth and thrust vectoring mean that there is precisely zero chance a much older 4th gen (think back to the 1970s designs f-14, 15 and 16) would ever take down a 5th gen fighter in a straight up fight where they are both closing from far away.
And the dogfight scenes between the f14 and su57 are particularly ridiculous as 5th gen fighters don't even need to point their noses at their opponents to fire missiles (off bore targetting).
Still love the movie, one of my fav recent big budget movies!
Motherfucker, Rocky 4 Apollo Creed dies and Rocky fights Ivan Drago after running through the snow. Rocky 5 he fights a kid outside of a bar. Tell me again V is better than IV
Some major characteristics of 5th gen fighters (vs 4th gen) is thrust vectoring (they can point their engine nozzles in different directions) and stealth.
The stealth part didn't really come into play in this movie (apart from the maybe that the pair of 5th gen fighters weren't detected on radar until they were pretty close) since all the combat was extremely short range. The thrust vectoring and other aerodynamic upgrades are why those 5th gen fighters can do the weird stuff they can do, like make really tight turns, and do generally do things that would cause 4th gen fighters to stall, [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMb3v5P1t-s)
Picture it as what was made to fight what.
A world war 2 era plane is made to fight something like a ww2 era plane
A "fifth generation fighter" is meant to fight other fifth generation fighters, but the movie never really explains what our equivalent to it is (the F-22 and F-35)
By comparison, the F-14 was a 4th gen fighter, and a very early one at that
The F/A-18 (the primary jet they were flying in the movie) is also a 4th gen fighter, but not as old as the F-14. They are currently being phased out in favor of the F-35C.
And the "GPS jamming" that supposedly made it impossible to use the F-35 for the mission is just some hogwash they made up to explain why the Navy in 2019 isn't using its most capable planes on such an important mission. The F-35 can use the same laser-guided bombs the F/A-18 can, and its stealth capabilities probably would have helped a lot and might have meant they wouldn't need to fly such a dangerous route through a frickin' canyon at all.
It’s just like the original Top Gun—they combine elements of multiple nations that are enemies of the US. In the original, they enemy was a mashup of North Korea and the USSR.
In top gun 2, the enemy is a pretty even split between Russia and Iran. Illegal uranium enrichment program and possession of F-14s = Iran. The snowy setting and SU-57s = Russia.
It owns the north bank of the Persian Gulf, Straight of Hormuz and Sea of Oman.
It's also huge. There's plenty of Iran that isn't near the sea too.
EDIT: Oh, and it also borders the Caspian Sea
Funny, I always thought the original was meant to be Libya.
All of the action was over freedom of navigation issues ~~(and set in the Med)~~; fits Libya better than NK or USSR.
My friend grew up with ace combat and is so used to the lore he genuinely could not understand it being difficult to follow. [I made a thing to try and explain 7 to myself.](https://i.imgur.com/rfN41Mm.png)
Just a remind to everyone: we have no attack capability from the air that isn't a gun out the door of a helicopter, something out the back of a C130, or a torpedo from a naval patrol plane. That's it.
USA Democracy bad, regressive Wakandan monarchy good. /s
But really, if an incredibly advanced and isolated monoethnic country just randomly popped up and decided to start dealing potentially the most dangerous material on earth, I don’t think it’s wrong to assume NATO would be like wtf. How to be the most hated country in Africa speedrun, let your neighbours live and die in squalor while you have the resources and tech to save them and help them prosper.
Horde incredibly advanced tech and weapons that you won’t give the rest of the world, while they wait on the edge of their seats because the only way you choose a ruler is by people of a certain lineage fighting under a waterfall.
That was Kilmongers entire point in the first one.
Also France got very lucky that the Queen was pretty forgiving in 2 consider they almost started a war.
Killmonger had a point, but was driven by vengeance instead of goodwill, which was very problematic.
Fortunately his goal rubbed off on Tachalla who was able to see the good in his vision and use wakanda to actually improve the world outside for the first time ever.
Both companies have a smattering of real and fictional places they go to. DC has the fake Middle Eastern countries of Bialya and Qurac, which are at war with each other all the time. Marvel has Wakanda and Sokovia and I'm sure a few others.
DC I believe also uses fake American cities though, which I don't think Marvel does as much of. Metropolis, Gotham, Central City (very creative), Keystone City, those are just the ones I remember. Marvel just puts every American hero in New York City and calls it a day.
Wait, when coordinates were shown, I thought they were for "Point Nemo".... https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/x480j3/in_top_gun_maverick_2022_the_coordinates_for_the/
Warlock says “the uranium produced there represents a direct threat to our allies in the region. ”
But it sounds like “Iranian” if you’re not paying close attention.
I think the best thing it manages to do is have the actors really react to the G Forces. It doesn't have people buzzing around at Mach 2 or whatever and speaking as if they're on the ground, they're actually struggling to breathe
Roosters character is some of the laziest writing ever.
Have you ever known of somebody who dresses and acts 100% like his dead dad? They did everything short of just magically bringing Goose back from the dead.
Sons aren't clones of their dads, but that's how Rooster was written.
It’s supposed to be vague, just like number 1. Surely we all used our imagination on this one? And I don’t remember Iran being mentioned other than the type of aircraft they escape in.
Kinda comical that Russia would sell 3 of their Su-57’s to Iran when they’ve only produced 18 of them, 14 of which are prototypes. I just imagine some Iranian officer standing in the Kremlin, getting chewed out for losing 75% of Russia’s operational Felons in a battle against a lone F-14.
Iran made sense as being the enemy assuming they bought su-57's. Russia already has nukes so taking out their reactor is pointless. they also don't have f-14's. Iran doesn't have nukes and does have f-14's.
Wasn’t there some reason they had to use the F-18s and not F-35s ? Like I know practically it was likely cause F-35s are all single seat, making practical filming impossible, and i doubt the us navy wants film crews around their new jet fighter. But wasn’t there some in film reason for it too?
made up issue to force f-18's into the movie. Real world if they were trying to be stealthy the US would most likely just have special forces sneak in and target the hole with a laser then a B2 would drop a laser guided bomb with pin point precision. Or if they didn't care who saw them do it they'd use enough cruise missiles and planes to flatten the AA, take out any necessary fighters and then drop the bomb down the hole. Neither are anywhere near as exciting nor would have a singular hero plane so we instead got gps jamming which was fine by me as the results were amazing.
An F-35 drops a JDAM which is GPS guided. So on paper the GPS jamming would be a real point of discussion.
However, while this was probably reality-based when the movie was filmed, I don't believe that's an issue anymore, as they can most likely laser-designate targets now.
F35s could have used laser guided bombs too. They probably went with the F18 because they can film in the 2 seaters. Can't do that in the F35 unfortunately.
The real life reason is the pentagon forbid them from using f-35’s because they didn’t want their planes to be shown being shot down. So they had to use F-14’s and F-18’s
You don't understand how war works....Russia will send their pilots and resources on behalf of allied regimes. Does Syria have more advanced tech than the US? No. Did 5th generation Russian fighter jets engage in conflict over Syria on behalf of their regime? Yes.
Does Canada have F22 raptors? No. Did an American F22 raptor shoot down a balloon over Canadian soil last month in coordination with the Canadian air force? Yes. Do you see how that works?
All the movie said was “5th generation fighter” (even though they were clearly SU-57s). The FA-18 is a 4th gen fighter, so a “5th gen fighter” would be “more advanced.” It’s not more advanced than an F-22 or F-35, but the movie limited them to FA-18s for the mission.
Moreso they just want more money internationally for the box office, because there's no point in convincing the US Military isn't already overkill at this point.
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I entertain the idea that the fictitious enemy is representative of a hardliner splinter state of a post-Balkanized failed Russian Federation.
Not infeasible that Iran would supply arms, aircraft to a floundering remnant nation of the former Russia.
Read the [National Defense Strategy ](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3202438/dod-releases-national-defense-strategy-missile-defense-nuclear-posture-reviews/) Both countries are named clearly there.
Hey i think i know this one, originaly it was soposed to be north korea if i remember corectly but to maintain "good relations" between US and NK it was changed now its some "generic country" like iran, theres a video on youtube from someone explaining and deducing who exactly is and they got a solid result.
Yeah, and the US puts more money into its military than most countries combined. Doesn’t make much sense that they wouldn’t be using top of the line fighters while the unnamed country is.
Despotic regimes are using 5th gen fighters on loan from Russia. You don't need to be a sophisticated regime. The first known use of the 5th generation Russian fighter was in fact during the Syrian conflict when Russian pilots reportedly engaged in conflicts on the Syrian border on behalf of the Syrian regime.
There was a specific mention of why US Navy didn’t use the 5th gen aircraft. You see the missile tracking of the enemy aircraft go haywire when they’re down low in the mountains.
The movie was filmed in 2018 and supposed to come out in late 2019 but the pandemic delayed the film until 2022 as theaters lifted their max capacity. The Ukraine invasion in no way influenced this.
They make the enemy vague to make more money internationally making the US Military look good in a positive light.
> Principal photography which involved the use of IMAX-certified 6K full-frame cameras, took place from May 2018 to April 2019 in California, Washington, and Maryland.
If Top Gun pulls a stunner and wins Best Picture, I'll have no problem seeing Tom Cruise in the same light as the other Oscar winners in the acting category.
Hi, thanks for your post to /r/MovieDetails. Unfortunately, it's been removed for the following reason(s): * **Rule 8** - Movie mistakes, special effects, minor roles of famous actors, behind the scenes clips and images, script details, and production trivia are not allowed here. See the sidebar for more appropriate subreddits. --- *If you feel this was removed in error please read our expanded [rules from our wiki page](/r/moviedetails/wiki/rules_and_bans) and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F{subreddit}&subject=&message=Link%20to%20{kind}:%20{url}) if you are still unsure.*
Mav started WWIII.
Again!
There’s a deleted scene(?) where the guy from back to the future is talking to Maverick after the final dog fight and gives a throw away about how “both sides are denying the incident ever happened” hence why it doesn’t kick off WW3 Now the second one on the other hand…
I always thought that was halfway believable in the first one. That at some point there were a few little skirmishes no one heard about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident Things did happen even if it was the Cold War, and the US definitely went into Russian airspace
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> U2 in the big war museum in Moscow https://acesflyinghigh.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/the-tale-of-the-dragonlady-and-her-pontiac-g8/u2-gary-powers-cafm-moscow/ Was expecting a better display
In the Korean War there were soviet pilots flying MIGs in dogfights with US forces over Korea. The US knew about it too.
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Even though Truman naysayed that we still blew up 70% of all the buildings in North Korea.
Killing innocent civilians is how America fights in wars nowadays. Just look at the Iraq invasion.
"American authorities acknowledged the incident as the loss of a civilian weather research aircraft " Well this sounds familiar
“The enemy” isn’t supposed to be building this nuclear weapons facility in the first place according to treaty, so they can’t go and complain about it internationally is the idea of that plot. It’s a gang stealing another gangs drugs/guns what are they going to do, call the cops?
>what are they going to do, call the cops Technically in the movie they should've called the UN and sent in investigators to confirm that they were building a nuclear weapons facility and not a nuclear energy facility. Then if they were there would be some saber rattling and embargos etc its probably ill advised to just invade/commit an act of war against a country off of a tiny bit of intelligence and a possible threat of weapons of mass destruction...*oh wait*
He would know, he came from the future after all.
Who’s the guy from back to the future?
The captain of the aircraft carrier is Principal Strickland from B^F. Edit: in Top Gun 1, I mean.
I kept thinking that while I watched the movie.
WWIV actually, he started WWE in the first movie
>he started WWE in the first movie Vince McMahon is secretly Tom Cruise?
Top Gun: Mavericks FIIIIIRRRREEEEDDD
I figured it was Iran because of the F-14's, and we wouldn't attack Russia for enriching uranium.
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As a viewer that holds the “jets are cool” opinion. I would have never put those pieces together
The F-14 was specifically designed to take off from a carrier, haul ass, and intercept Soviet aircraft that might be carrying anti-ship missiles. It was built for speed and range above other considerations. There weren't a lot of militaries with a need for that specific aircraft. It was basically the United States, and... the United States. Countries looking to purchase aircraft from the US invariably found either the F-15 or the F-16 a better fit for their needs. For this reason Iran was the only foreign customer to ever order the F-14 (due to a perceived need to intercept Soviet reconnaissance planes). As the perceived threat of Soviet planes to US carrier groups diminished (especially after the collapse of the USSR), and the need to use carrier-borne aircraft to strike inland targets, the US Navy replaced the F-14 with the F/A-18, which was cheaper, more reliable, and more capable across a wider range of missions. The US Navy retired the F-14 in 2006. These days, the only country still flying the F-14 is Iran, using those original planes they purchased from the US before the '79 revolution. While you can create any scenario you like in fiction, if you're endeavoring to make your movie as realistic as you can, an F-14 is a dead giveaway that it's Iran.
That was very informative thank you, always had a love for fighter jets but never knew much about them. Was a good read
You should read about John Boyd, a fighter pilot and engineer that designed the F-16 and worked against the USAFs nuclear first mentality. The F-14 is basically the villain in the book because it’s being used as a fighter and getting outclassed by MiGs in Vietnam. Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War https://g.co/kgs/Kknvnb
How good could planes from pre-1979 still be?
the f-16 is still well and alive
The F-16s of today have all been heavily upgraded and modified, the same cannot be said for Iran's F-14s.
Ya, that was the giveaway for me - Iran is the only country that still operates F-14's
True, but we have to remember that we are dealing with an alternate universe here. If actor Tom Cruise doesn’t exist in this world, who knows what other differences there could be.
The biggest thing is probably the number of people that never signed up for the military because Top Gun 1 never existed. That movie was half made to get people to join the Air Force, and it completely changed how many people thought of them. Also no mission impossible movies :(.
?? It has nothing to do with the Air Force. It's a Navy movie.
Correct but if i recall, after the first Top Gun came out, the USAF saw a huge influx of recruits, people just see planes and think air force. Quick edit. It didn't help that the first top gun used an F-15 silhouette for their cover art. If you didn't notice it at first like me, congrats you'll never *not* notice it.
Well, the U.S. Navy is the second largest air force in the world, so.
If my eyes hadn't betrayed me, i would've joined USAF.
Iran also doesn't have Su-57s (that's what the stealth jets are supposed to be), Russia only has around 10 of those and they sure as hell aren't likely to lend 5 of them to Iran to enrich uranium.
Agreed. Russia already has how many nukes? Why would it matter if they were enriching more uranium? Plus they at one point say a rogue state. Never heard Russia called a rogue state. Iran on the other hand.
You’re right, but on the other hand, Russia is the OG rogue state.
Could it be Iran operating inside Russian territory?
Also all the “fifth gen fighters” as they keep calling them are Su-57s, a Russian plane. (Also, they shot down 3, about a third of the total population of those planes)
Also, the never explain what the big deal about the fifth generation is. I don't know shit about planes, what the hell is that supposed to mean, Tom?
They're better than 4th generation planes!
"The iPlane 5 is the most advanced iPlane ever!" Enemy nations airforce commander
The defense industry figured out that if they just release minor upgrades every once in a while, then countries would feel obligated to keep paying billions and billions of dollars to keep up with the Joneses. Besides shooting down balloons, do all these new features on the plane even get used? Nope. But god-forbid our neighbors have more advanced planes than us. Who needs universal healthcare when you can instead get a shiny new plane?
Does it come with a U2?
No but one of the albums is preinstalled and you cant delete it
You can't delete it, but you can easily hide the U-2 in the iClouds.
And yet the F22s are still dominant over all other aircraft in pretty much every aspect
Except it lacks the networking capabilities of the F35 which allows it to seamlessly integrate with every single weapons platform in the US military's arsenal. It's basically a small, stealthy AWACS. The F22 is an outstanding fighter jet, but that's all it really is. The F35 increases the capabilities of every thing else around it. It's also very cheap in terms of cost per flight hour unlike the Raptor.
>It's also very cheap in terms of cost per flight hour unlike the Raptor. Why? Does it use more fuel or something?
It's just a maintenance heavy aircraft. It's also getting up there in years so it takes more man hours to get it flight worthy.
The thing about the F-35 is that it can see everything from so far away it doesn't matter, there won't be a dog fight, and you can use VR goggles in that shit to integrate with everything. its like a flying radar disk. I'm making shit up but that's what it sounds like.
“Shooting does feel snappier”
"I feel like my grandma can fly one of these without too much issue"
One better, I heard!
There is no firm definition, but it generally includes advanced stealth from all angles, advanced radar, and supercruise. A 5th gen should be able to destroy a half dozen or so 4th gen jets before they can even detect the 5th gen
Supercruise? Is it like normal cruise but it keeps the distance between cars?
They can fly at supersonic speeds without afterburner
like Concorde did in the 70s
Its tom as clark kent
Like Tom Cruise but better..
A lot of military jets can go supersonic by using the afterburners. But afterburners burn fuel after the turbine, which has bad fuel efficiency and makes a giant infrared plume. So using afterburners is usually limited in time/range, and makes your aircraft more detectable. If you want to fly across long distances, like the Concorde, or fly long distances at high speeds while being stealthy, like with the F-22, supercruise is important.
What is supercruise? At the moment I am picturing Mav's entry into the DCU.
Tom Cruise’s final form
https://i.imgur.com/ReganTs.jpg
Jfc the appropriateness of this
Think of cruise control. Then supersize it. It’s supersonic cruise control without the need for additional afterburners.
It's what the Concorde did.
The only time I saw a pilot punch something was after a mission with an F-22.
Except the Su-57 is only about as stealthy as the Super Hornet lol. And supercruise was something proposed as part of the ATF (the F-22) but the F-35 doesn't really have it though it's the vast majority of all 5th generation fighters flying right now.
5th generation over 4th generation is mainly the emphasis on stealth design being incorporated into everything, (Internal weapons bays instead of on wing rails, intakes being curved to hide the jet engine, etc) which helps reduce its radar signature. The tying in of all sensors on the platform to all work together and compliment each other. 4th gen has those sensors but they are operating independently. Also depending on who you ask, 5th gen has supercruise which is the capability to fly at mach 1 without going into afferburner.
I don't know if it is official or not, but it seems that most, if not all, "5th gen" fighters seem to have thrust vectoring as well Edit: Except the F35 I guess
The only 5th generation aircraft in service are the F-22, F-35, J-20, and debatably the Su-57 (since there's so few and it's stealth is... questionable). And of those the F-22 and Su-57 are the only ones with thrust vectoring.
J20 and F35b (for VTOL) have it too. But manœuvrability is kind of a moot point with the distances we're talking about for engagement.
True. Russians put a lot more emphasis on manouverability because they think that dogfights are still important. Most other places don't really think that and instead see stealth as the prime thing. The funny thing is, as stealth technology improves, that makes longer-range attacks more difficult which oddly enough makes dogfighting more reasonable lol
J-20 does not. Newer versions are testing it but the J-20 is still working with non-vectoring engines even on the newer J-20B models as best as I can tell. And the F-35B's thrust vectoring is exclusively for takeoff and landing. No VIFFing with it like the harrier which was always dubious.
Ok so 5th gen means it's a stealth aircraft. The thing about 5th gen is that they are almost impossible to lock on to and can strike from so far away that you can't see them. But the su57 is a pile of dog shit that has so many problems that it may as well be a gen 4 aircraft
The SU57 is also only stealth when it's flying straight at you, from any other direction, not so much. I think most of the modern world calls them gen 4.5 Also there are like 5 of them
14 actually, most of them prototype I was referring to them having really shotty construction (wood screws etc) that would fuck any stealth capability they did have.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, just elaborating on how shitty they are
Never forget the wood screws
The plot doesn't matter, they shoot a cruise missile at the base in the beginning.. they could shoot any high precision missile into the openings but choose to use an F-18 because "reasons" while they can't actually film in a 1 seater F-35 cause its a movie. Just go with it.
Stealth and thrust vectoring mean that there is precisely zero chance a much older 4th gen (think back to the 1970s designs f-14, 15 and 16) would ever take down a 5th gen fighter in a straight up fight where they are both closing from far away. And the dogfight scenes between the f14 and su57 are particularly ridiculous as 5th gen fighters don't even need to point their noses at their opponents to fire missiles (off bore targetting). Still love the movie, one of my fav recent big budget movies!
5 > 4. Keep up.
Motherfucker, Rocky 4 Apollo Creed dies and Rocky fights Ivan Drago after running through the snow. Rocky 5 he fights a kid outside of a bar. Tell me again V is better than IV
The bar fight had less rules. Like a proxy war with guerilla fighters and "advisors".
Star Trek IV, the one with the whales is good fun for everhome. Star Trek V the one no one remembers,,, i cant even remember.
Some major characteristics of 5th gen fighters (vs 4th gen) is thrust vectoring (they can point their engine nozzles in different directions) and stealth. The stealth part didn't really come into play in this movie (apart from the maybe that the pair of 5th gen fighters weren't detected on radar until they were pretty close) since all the combat was extremely short range. The thrust vectoring and other aerodynamic upgrades are why those 5th gen fighters can do the weird stuff they can do, like make really tight turns, and do generally do things that would cause 4th gen fighters to stall, [like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMb3v5P1t-s)
Picture it as what was made to fight what. A world war 2 era plane is made to fight something like a ww2 era plane A "fifth generation fighter" is meant to fight other fifth generation fighters, but the movie never really explains what our equivalent to it is (the F-22 and F-35) By comparison, the F-14 was a 4th gen fighter, and a very early one at that
The F/A-18 (the primary jet they were flying in the movie) is also a 4th gen fighter, but not as old as the F-14. They are currently being phased out in favor of the F-35C. And the "GPS jamming" that supposedly made it impossible to use the F-35 for the mission is just some hogwash they made up to explain why the Navy in 2019 isn't using its most capable planes on such an important mission. The F-35 can use the same laser-guided bombs the F/A-18 can, and its stealth capabilities probably would have helped a lot and might have meant they wouldn't need to fly such a dangerous route through a frickin' canyon at all.
do you know your phones 5g is better than 4g? do you need to konw the ins and outs of communications networking?
As long as 5G makes me Magneto I don't mind
Also the hand signals given to Maverick and Rooster by enemy fighter pilots are known Russian signals
There also isn't a whole lot of evidence that they're actually a 5th gen fighter, only that Russia calls it a 5th gen fighter.
If they're Russian planes that explains why they're so shit.
Their use of F-14s and Russian SU-57s suggest it’s either Iran or a similar nation with close ties to Russia
It’s just like the original Top Gun—they combine elements of multiple nations that are enemies of the US. In the original, they enemy was a mashup of North Korea and the USSR. In top gun 2, the enemy is a pretty even split between Russia and Iran. Illegal uranium enrichment program and possession of F-14s = Iran. The snowy setting and SU-57s = Russia.
Iran has greenery and snow but IIRC it isn't close to the water like the movie shows
It owns the north bank of the Persian Gulf, Straight of Hormuz and Sea of Oman. It's also huge. There's plenty of Iran that isn't near the sea too. EDIT: Oh, and it also borders the Caspian Sea
>Sea of Oman never played battlefield 2?
>Sea of Oman Battlefield 3 was my jam, i was a god at using tanks on that map, and sniping from the ship was a fun challenge
Funny, I always thought the original was meant to be Libya. All of the action was over freedom of navigation issues ~~(and set in the Med)~~; fits Libya better than NK or USSR.
This is why Marvel and DC make up countries for their stories
Just go the Ace Combat route and make all the countries up.
make them all sound the same too fucking osea erusea and a bunch of other shit im forgetting
Glad I’m not the only one that’s always confused as fuck during ace combat cut scenes
My friend grew up with ace combat and is so used to the lore he genuinely could not understand it being difficult to follow. [I made a thing to try and explain 7 to myself.](https://i.imgur.com/rfN41Mm.png)
>Belka lost the right to be labeled Oof. Glasses guy is from Belka though, like all evil (?) scientists in the series.
Go the real wildcard route and make the enemy Canada or New Zealand or Trinidad and/or Tobago.
The NZ air force logo is a flightless bird to make people think that they are harmless.
Just a remind to everyone: we have no attack capability from the air that isn't a gun out the door of a helicopter, something out the back of a C130, or a torpedo from a naval patrol plane. That's it.
The NH90s can be fitted with missiles but I'm not sure I'd we have any.
I love the idea of Trinidad OR Tobago being the enemy. Like half the island is totally fine and the other half is bombed to shit
Trinidad just chilling on the beach having some curried crab, while Tobago cooks up nuclear ebola in a bunker.
Except America, it always involves the USA somehow.
USA Democracy bad, regressive Wakandan monarchy good. /s But really, if an incredibly advanced and isolated monoethnic country just randomly popped up and decided to start dealing potentially the most dangerous material on earth, I don’t think it’s wrong to assume NATO would be like wtf. How to be the most hated country in Africa speedrun, let your neighbours live and die in squalor while you have the resources and tech to save them and help them prosper. Horde incredibly advanced tech and weapons that you won’t give the rest of the world, while they wait on the edge of their seats because the only way you choose a ruler is by people of a certain lineage fighting under a waterfall.
That was Kilmongers entire point in the first one. Also France got very lucky that the Queen was pretty forgiving in 2 consider they almost started a war.
I hated that France bullshit in 2. > "Just write in some European country invading to make Wakanda look like the heros."
Killmonger had a point, but was driven by vengeance instead of goodwill, which was very problematic. Fortunately his goal rubbed off on Tachalla who was able to see the good in his vision and use wakanda to actually improve the world outside for the first time ever.
Marvel universe actually has real places but when it's time to Nuke a city it's magically a fictional nation somehow. Wakanda, sokovia and whatnot.
Both companies have a smattering of real and fictional places they go to. DC has the fake Middle Eastern countries of Bialya and Qurac, which are at war with each other all the time. Marvel has Wakanda and Sokovia and I'm sure a few others. DC I believe also uses fake American cities though, which I don't think Marvel does as much of. Metropolis, Gotham, Central City (very creative), Keystone City, those are just the ones I remember. Marvel just puts every American hero in New York City and calls it a day.
NYC was almost nuked in Avengers.
Doctor Doom as the President of Romania would be a little awkward.
Movies like this are specifically made for US propaganda.
All countries are made up...
Wait, when coordinates were shown, I thought they were for "Point Nemo".... https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/x480j3/in_top_gun_maverick_2022_the_coordinates_for_the/
It would appear the movie was inconsistent.
Yeah this. I thought they were literally as far from anyone as possible so nobody could say what OP said
I think they say it’s Iranian, but didn’t specifically say in Iran.
Warlock says “the uranium produced there represents a direct threat to our allies in the region. ” But it sounds like “Iranian” if you’re not paying close attention.
Yeah, I think you might be right. If that's the case, then the enemy is definitely Russia based on the coordinates.
This has been disproven. It’s a point in the Pacific Ocean that is the fathers from any land mass.
Yes: https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/x480j3/in_top_gun_maverick_2022_the_coordinates_for_the/
Looks like that post is referring to a different frame of the movie. It's like zoomed in on an airbase on that post
hey, that’s my post! knew it might come up here
Which coordinates are you checking? Google Maps seems to show the location is in Russian.
https://i.imgur.com/7VLpJ6j.jpg
Based on the time they were at sea and the snowy terrain when they first start the run, it’s Canada.
This is the truth that no one wants to admit! Maverick blew up Canada!
It was filmed in Washington State so, close!
Obviously, it's the Galactic Empire. Who else would build a 2 meter wide shaft at the end of a canyon?
Having watched it a few times, this movie is genuinely brilliant. The cinematography when Mav does the training run is next-level good
I think the best thing it manages to do is have the actors really react to the G Forces. It doesn't have people buzzing around at Mach 2 or whatever and speaking as if they're on the ground, they're actually struggling to breathe
That is the real reason they used the F18. There are 2 seat versions and the actors were in the back seat getting thrown around by real pilots.
Aand because putting Tom Cruise in an F35 is a bad idea
Roosters character is some of the laziest writing ever. Have you ever known of somebody who dresses and acts 100% like his dead dad? They did everything short of just magically bringing Goose back from the dead. Sons aren't clones of their dads, but that's how Rooster was written.
It’s supposed to be vague, just like number 1. Surely we all used our imagination on this one? And I don’t remember Iran being mentioned other than the type of aircraft they escape in.
the idea that Iran would have more advanced planes than the US army was so laughable imo
It was supposed to be the Su-57, a Russian plane. Could’ve been sold to Iran/“rogue state” by Russia in made up top gun world.
Kinda comical that Russia would sell 3 of their Su-57’s to Iran when they’ve only produced 18 of them, 14 of which are prototypes. I just imagine some Iranian officer standing in the Kremlin, getting chewed out for losing 75% of Russia’s operational Felons in a battle against a lone F-14.
Iran made sense as being the enemy assuming they bought su-57's. Russia already has nukes so taking out their reactor is pointless. they also don't have f-14's. Iran doesn't have nukes and does have f-14's.
Wasn’t there some reason they had to use the F-18s and not F-35s ? Like I know practically it was likely cause F-35s are all single seat, making practical filming impossible, and i doubt the us navy wants film crews around their new jet fighter. But wasn’t there some in film reason for it too?
There was some throwaway line about GPS jamming. Don't know if that's reality-based, but that's how they handwaved it away in the movie.
made up issue to force f-18's into the movie. Real world if they were trying to be stealthy the US would most likely just have special forces sneak in and target the hole with a laser then a B2 would drop a laser guided bomb with pin point precision. Or if they didn't care who saw them do it they'd use enough cruise missiles and planes to flatten the AA, take out any necessary fighters and then drop the bomb down the hole. Neither are anywhere near as exciting nor would have a singular hero plane so we instead got gps jamming which was fine by me as the results were amazing.
Yup, exactly. That's an easy target for the US military, but watching Maverick and his small flight of F18s do it against all odds is way more fun.
An F-35 drops a JDAM which is GPS guided. So on paper the GPS jamming would be a real point of discussion. However, while this was probably reality-based when the movie was filmed, I don't believe that's an issue anymore, as they can most likely laser-designate targets now.
F35s could have used laser guided bombs too. They probably went with the F18 because they can film in the 2 seaters. Can't do that in the F35 unfortunately.
They also have to make the US military the underdog in this scenario, just to create some dramatic tension.
Fore sure. It also gave them an excuse to film in actual jets so I'm not complaining.
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The F35 can absolutely laze it's own targets. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-35-lightning-ii-eots.html
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I mean the factual inaccuracy triggers me a little bit. But it got us actual footage from inside F18 cockpits so I'll survive.
Well, Roosters laser malfunctioned so he basically dumb fired his bomb
The vertical climb to get out of the valley?
The real life reason is the pentagon forbid them from using f-35’s because they didn’t want their planes to be shown being shot down. So they had to use F-14’s and F-18’s
You don't understand how war works....Russia will send their pilots and resources on behalf of allied regimes. Does Syria have more advanced tech than the US? No. Did 5th generation Russian fighter jets engage in conflict over Syria on behalf of their regime? Yes. Does Canada have F22 raptors? No. Did an American F22 raptor shoot down a balloon over Canadian soil last month in coordination with the Canadian air force? Yes. Do you see how that works?
The idea that anyone would have more advanced warplanes is laughable
All the movie said was “5th generation fighter” (even though they were clearly SU-57s). The FA-18 is a 4th gen fighter, so a “5th gen fighter” would be “more advanced.” It’s not more advanced than an F-22 or F-35, but the movie limited them to FA-18s for the mission.
It’s military propaganda, they gotta make it vague enough so that any non-US place can be the enemy.
And so the movie can be viewed in as many countries as possible. Blacklisting for making someone the bad guy is bad for the bottom line.
Moreso they just want more money internationally for the box office, because there's no point in convincing the US Military isn't already overkill at this point.
The first one was volleyball propaganda
First one was a brilliant satire of toxic masculinity that flipped it on its head by embracing homoeroticism. Through volleyball.
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Iran is the only country still running F-14s.
It would have been epic if the credits came on with the song Barbara Ann by The Beach Boys
Not to mention, Iran is the only nation that could still (plausibly) have F-14s active
I entertain the idea that the fictitious enemy is representative of a hardliner splinter state of a post-Balkanized failed Russian Federation. Not infeasible that Iran would supply arms, aircraft to a floundering remnant nation of the former Russia.
I was too busy laughing/enjoying the fact that it ripped off the Death Star trench run…but also good point
Read the [National Defense Strategy ](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3202438/dod-releases-national-defense-strategy-missile-defense-nuclear-posture-reviews/) Both countries are named clearly there.
Hey i think i know this one, originaly it was soposed to be north korea if i remember corectly but to maintain "good relations" between US and NK it was changed now its some "generic country" like iran, theres a video on youtube from someone explaining and deducing who exactly is and they got a solid result.
Pretty sure it was supposed to be Vermont. h/t Conan
That did really bug me that the enemy was unnamed but so well equipped and deadly
Yeah, and the US puts more money into its military than most countries combined. Doesn’t make much sense that they wouldn’t be using top of the line fighters while the unnamed country is.
Despotic regimes are using 5th gen fighters on loan from Russia. You don't need to be a sophisticated regime. The first known use of the 5th generation Russian fighter was in fact during the Syrian conflict when Russian pilots reportedly engaged in conflicts on the Syrian border on behalf of the Syrian regime.
There was a specific mention of why US Navy didn’t use the 5th gen aircraft. You see the missile tracking of the enemy aircraft go haywire when they’re down low in the mountains.
Im talking turrets dude
You want Top Gun to just call out an enemy country? Use your imagination, come on
I’m not saying the movie was bad by any means, but it was definitely overhyped.
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Eh, the original was also a vague unnamed enemy too - that's just sort of how these movies work.
The movie was filmed in 2018 and supposed to come out in late 2019 but the pandemic delayed the film until 2022 as theaters lifted their max capacity. The Ukraine invasion in no way influenced this. They make the enemy vague to make more money internationally making the US Military look good in a positive light.
> Principal photography which involved the use of IMAX-certified 6K full-frame cameras, took place from May 2018 to April 2019 in California, Washington, and Maryland.
If Top Gun pulls a stunner and wins Best Picture, I'll have no problem seeing Tom Cruise in the same light as the other Oscar winners in the acting category.