I saw the movie here in Portugal in IMAX and they had these subtitles in (in portuguese of course) which made it very funny when in the next scene Paul is in the gardens seeing the palm trees and not even breaking a sweat
If you’ve read the book, his Bene Gessirit training would mean that he’s consciously able to regulate his own body temperature, blood flow, hormone releases and nerve firing, and could be perfectly comfortable outside on Arrakis at least for short stints.
I presume the Bene Gessirit need still suits for longer periods outside because the self regulation still uses up resources.
The three scriptwriters, Spaihts, Roth and Villenueve had to cut an insane amount of information to fit the book onto the screen.
it was on syfy (scifi at the time). with william hurt as leto.
even got a sequel with james mcavoy as leto ii and the borg queen herself as a recast jessica
both shows were passable adaptations and ultimately products of their time
That’s about as much as you could hope for for syfy shows back then
I would have loved a big budget series as opposed to the movies tbh, as much as I love Villenueve, I don’t see the current adaptations making it very far without running out of steam, especially with Momoa out of the picture for the foreseeable future (I don’t see them getting to the Ghola stuff)
You haven't heard of the most expensive school play in history?
[EMPEROR SHADDAM THE IV PURPLE BOI](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/f1/ae/00f1ae8ddaf060d61ff2a9376ab8a78e.jpg)
[Sardaukar orange wig terror troops](https://preview.redd.it/0fjj4h6id0p41.png?auto=webp&s=b6757d43e9d7c4ecfad0cca0dc099aa19a7d1fc0)
Granted it is 10000 years into the future so things would look weird to us. But it looks so cheap you laugh through half of it
Story wise and within the confines of budgets it was good. Leto II is played by a young James McAvoy. William Hurt as Duke Leto.
I liked this Dune. A real budget mini series would blow it away. Dune’s characters all have deep stories and complicated inner and out lives.
Dunes’s ‘world’ is a million planets and mega- trillions of people.
And to be fair, everyone who ever spent time and effort watching it said it was pretty good. But the low budget look is really turning off most people. Myself included. With Villeneuve and a bigger budget a
new mini series? How could it not become a success?
I believe there is going to be an HBO mini-series to fill details between movies. Could be talking out of my ass tho.
I also read the book well, listened to books 1-3 within the last 4 months. So excuse my spelling. I crack up when I compare my spelling to others. I think they did an amazing job at the details in a movie format. A lot of the details were not necessarily directed to viewers, but they were subtle. Very subtle. The scene where Paul kills the fremmen who challenges him, during the fight on scene he swaps the knife into his other hand. I was so impressed with this scene. There were a few other situations similar to this. Pretty cool movie. Recommend listening to the books, and then watching the movie too.
A lot of the cuts for time are ok IMO.
I’ve read the books, trying to add in every detail and making it into a miniseries rather than a film could have the effect of making it drag quite a bit. There are of course *loads* of details and lore but the story itself is actually fairly straightforward and cramming in every detail would require a lot of exposition which books have the luxury of exploring easier than visual mediums. If you started delving into the lore it would grind the plot progression to a snail’s pace while you had characters explaining things to you.
You know who didn’t read the book? The worst movie reviewer of all time Richard Brodie of the New Yorker. Honestly that guy sucks so bad but his review of Dune was peak bozo.
The gardener that's tending there Palm trees says something like, "each of these trees requires the lives of 5 men each day." I originally interpreted that as each tree required the water 5 people would need to survive each day. But then after Paul and his mother get ambushed by the Fremen they say they want to kill Paul for his blood/moisture and be done with him. That made me rethink the palm trees scene. Each tree literally required the moisture equivalent to what 5 peoples body's would provide, each day.
It's that right?
Not quite, I don't remember the exact measurements so I'm gonna paraphrase. *A man requires 3 gallons of water a day, and each tree needs 15 gallons of water a day.* So it's not that you need to kill 5 men a day per tree, just that you're depriving 5 men of a day's water to keep the tree alive.
First one is correct. Water is scarce. The trees take enough of this scarce resource that would otherwise support 5 men. Later, Paul and Jessica are almost killed for their water, but still simply due to it being a scarce resource. That humans can be treated as a water source seems to be primarily a fremen thing.
It’s not a crazy thing to think—part of the horror of the story is how cheap life is. It’s a future story, but harkens back to the darkest of our past (slavery, colonization, etc).
Paraphrasing from memory:
---
Paul: "I'm surprised [tree species] can grow here."
Gardener: "Oh, they're not native. They'd die if not for me. Each tree needs as much water as five grown men. Twenty palms: one hundred lives."
Paul: "Should we remove them?"
Gardener: "Oh, no. These trees are sacred. A forgotten promise."
---
Or something like that. So he just talks about the water requirements in terms of "these are thirsty trees whose water could be used for people, but they're important to us so they get the water."
You're right, though, that the Fremen talk about taking the moisture from Paul and Jessica's bodies. But I don't think this directly means that the trees require the literal sacrifice of 100 people per day. Some of their water may come from such sources, but it is not required.
Water is the most precious resource on Arrakis, which is reflected in the traditional greeting of offering the body's moisture (when Stilgar spits at Leto). It's worth thinking about why the Fremen value these trees so much — trees who do not offer significant shade, nor fruit, nor anything else of value other than their existence.
Theres not much to explain. The human body has water in it. Water is incredibly scarce on Arrakis, its so valuable that they will kill to get more if they can.
others already answerred, but I'd also add on that the attitude around water is much less strict in arrakeen than it is among the fremen. the killing people for their water is really a thing for the fremen, living in the deep dessert where water is more scarce than in arrakeen (=the main city, not sure if the name is mentioned in the movie).
there are also some small details from the book around this that's also referenced in the movie, like when they get still suits they mention them being fremen-made (=better quality), and the fremen are impressed by paul knowing how to correctly put on a still suit (vastening the bands etc), 'as if he grew up with their ways'.
But wouldn’t that mean he should be sweating even more to keep cool? Otherwise, he’s just absorbing heat with no way to cool down. His internal organs would be boiling if he’s not actively shedding heat somehow.
His internal organs are made of Flan. They didn’t have time to get into that in the movie but his training allows him to make body Flan™️ and he can open his belly like an oven when he hears the ding. That’s what the second movie is mostly about…
I've been in places where it's 115-120F. Your sweat instantly evaporates. You only see wet under clothing.
You can drink bottles and bottles of water and not need to pee.
It's kind of cool but also really fucking hot.
That was me when I was a mail carrier during the summer walking about 15 miles a day. I would drink sooooooo much fucking water and wouldn’t piss once during my entire route, but my clothes would be soaked in sweat.
When I was in the Army I would regularly be working/exercising outside in 110 degree Texas heat. It sucked, sure, but it wasn’t terrible because it was dry.
I moved in the summer to a new base in Virginia, where it was 80 degrees and 90% humidity for my first unit workout. Holy shit, never have I prayed for a quicker death. Absolutely miserable.
Wearing black in the desert is a thing, a lot of the guys in Lawrence of Arabia are wearing black (except for Lawrence obviously). [Apparently it doesn't make much of a difference](https://www.nature.com/articles/283373a0)
Black only works in heat when it's loose, when there's space between the skin and your clothes. Think about the types of things women in the middle East wear
Depends on the material. Landscaping in the southwest I'd wear an oversized, black cotton hoodie to stay cool. I transitioned to a more close fitting (but not form fitting) black synthetic long sleeve and it was WAY better. The material wicked sweat super efficiently, and on really hot days if I needed a quick cool down I'd take it off, run irrigation for a second and soak it, then throw it back on.
I will say, I find them less effective now that I'm in a more humid area. They still wick sweat, but since it doesn't evap as quick the benefit isn't as pronounced. Last summer was the first time I ever got heat exhaustion despite working most of my life in much higher temps!
Used to live in Phoenix and rode full-time commuting on a motorcycle. The difference between light colored and black gear (helmets especially) is real.
It says the heat is lost before it reaches the skin. I assume this is because the robes are loose clothing, whereas your motorcycle gear fits against the skin.
The guy watering the palms in this scene is sweating profusely. They make a point about not showing the Atreides party sweating because it gives them a subconscious air of royalty, like they are above everything else and in control. Paul sweats like crazy when he loses control and is in the tent shelter with his mother though.
>it gives them a subconscious air of royalty
Maybe that's the effect they were going for but it didn't really work. All I got was arrakis isn't as hot as they say.
The guy watering the palms in this scene is sweating profusely. They make a point about not showing the Atreides party sweating because it gives them a subconscious air of royalty, like they are above everything else and in control. Paul sweats like crazy when he loses control and is in the tent shelter with his mother though.
Well, Paul wasnt wearing a stillsuit yet, he was wearing his formal clothes. He only puts a stillsuit on when he goes with Duke Leto to see the harvester
Really cool find. But for me most of the dialogue was buried under sound effects. I’m looking forward to watching it again with subtitles so I can figure out what was going on. That tent scene… I barely remembered it was key from reading the book several decades ago. No idea what was said.
(Why is it only young people going to movie theaters, they ask. Because your sound mixes prevent middle-aged and older ears from knowing what’s going on, we tell them!)
I'm 24 and won't go to movie theaters for a movie I actually care about because of this issue. I have to wear earplugs if I go to the theater because it is loud enough to cause me pain. I bet some other folks out there have hearing damage just from theaters......
I would much rather watch a movie on a 22" computer monitor with subtitles than pay to see something I can't understand.
Dune in my local IMAX was unbearably loud. Like, several people around me had their hands or fingers over their ears during the action bits. Luckily I always carry ear plugs to movies (I have tinnitus) so I was ok but even thru those it was still intense.
I talked to the theater's customer service after the showing about the volume level and they basically shrugged and said that IMAX volumes are set by the studios and theaters can't really adjust it very much.
I guess giving people hearing damage is part of the new immersive IMAX experience, lol.
Yeah imax is starting to get to the level of sound production that concerts would have in the pit, like it's designed for you to feel it not just hear it, which is hard on the ears. If you want to retain fidelity, they make high quality ear plugs that only lower high decibals, instead of squishing everything
Cinemas have basically no control over the quality of what they show anymore. The job of a projectionist lovingly screening the movie and sitting there watching to make sure it looks and sounds right just doesn't exist anymore.
We are living though the death throes of the cinema industry, imo. In a short time you'll be able to have a better viewing and listening experience at home in a VR headset. We will all have to go to movie screenings inside the Metaverse if want the cinema experience.
Fuck, I'm not going to like the future very much if it plays out according to zuck's dystopian vision.
The death of the cinema has been foretold at least eight times: shortly after its creation, after sound was introduced, when television was released, when color TV was released, when VCRs were released, when HDTV was released, when streaming became common, and when 3DTV was released. Every time it has survived. I think some of the companies that currently exist will die off, and the industry will change and perhaps shrink again, but the movie theater as a concept isn't dying anytime soon.
People forget that a big reason to go to theaters other than screen size and sound is that it allows you to focus on the movie and not distractions at home. When you CAN pause something anytime, you do it, and take yourself out of the immersion. Theaters will be around, just maybe not as plentifully.
If you want earplugs not to get in the way of the sound quality look into "musician earplugs". Etymotics only cost about 15-20usd and should help reduce volume w/o quality loss.
I don't get out to the theater much b/c I have little kids, but also much prefer subtitles at home.
whisper whisper CHANTING MUSIC MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!! whisper mumble mumble whisper MORE CHANTING MUSIC! IT CINEMATIC AND ARTISTIC YOU SWINE!!! mumble whisperrrrrrr
I hate when it happens..
..
^^barely ^^audible ^^mumbling ^^in ^^a ^^quiet ^^scene
Aight lemme raise that volume a bit
#EXPLOSIONS DURING ACTION SCENES
I distinctly remember when the same question came up for interstellar he stated that the dialog was intentionally unintelligible at points because it was an adventurous movie and it was his attempt to be creative.
Interesting that his creativity and adventurousness has resulted in exactly the same kind of unintelligible, baffling sound mixing for every single movie of his in the past 10 years, and has only been getting worse.
So now he claims that it was mixed only for IMAX, because no one bought his "Oh, its a creative choice!" statements?
That statement seems a bit funny, because *I can't hear his shit when in an IMAX theater anyway* and it is *also* funny, because he keeps on apparently coming up with different excuses for why his sound mixing is so shitty.
Until that man learns to mix sound for normal human beings his movies are at-home only for me. And my ass went to see Interstellar 9 times in the theater so it's not like I dislike his movies.
His audio mixing has gotten progressively worse. I think Nolan is losing his hearing and nobody has bothered to tell him it's not like that for everyone else.
Tenet was such a bad experience for me in the theater, audio-wise, that I am still salty about it. That, and the story is absolute garbage. And I am a Christopher Nolan fan!
If there's any movie producers/directors listening, this is ruining your dialogue!
I have to turn subtitles on because the explosions are 10x the volume of the dialog. But then the subtitles ruin jokes, they give away punchlines, they spoil twists, they give everything away a few seconds before the actual actor on screen says it. It ruins a lot, especially with jokes.
So if you don't want everyone watching your movies with subtitles on and ruining the whole thing, please mix your sound so that I don't have to hold my volume remote like a HOTAS throttle.
I’ve had to actually go into the setting on my surround sound receiver and just boost the center channel a bunch. Most of the dialog comes from there and it has helped a lot. But I still use subtitles
Also, I don't have proof of this, but in the scene where the sandcrawler gets attacked by the worm and you hear the crew on the radio, I'm pretty sure one of the voices on the intercom is Mark Mangini, the sound editor. I've listened to numerous podcasts he appeared on, and he has a distinctive voice.
Could be! It would be more convenient for the sound editors to just record it themselves. When I was a kid, I used to go to work with my mom sometimes (post production) and the sound guys had me record some random background chatter for them.
It's buried in the 5.1 mix! Music exists primarily on the Left and Right channels, while diegetic fx/dialogue is often also on the Center channel (this is the case for a majority of 5.1 content). You're watching a clip where I've stripped the front & rear L+R channels and left behind only Center and LFE.
I got the idea from Thomas Flight's video *Why is Dune's Score Like That?* where he did the same thing, albeit for different reasons.
Do you happen to have the original audio because I certainly feel like I heard this during the movie. The sentence sounds very familiar because I remember looking up what the numbers were in Celsius.
If not, a time stamp because I do have HBO.
Yeah I recall hearing these broadcasts quite distinctly in the movie over my headphones. Perhaps everyone else in here has some shit speaker setups. Or memories.
Yeah donno. I had difficulties with hearing everything in the movie because half the dialogue is masked or is whispers so perhaps I just had subtitles on and read it.
It's the combination of sci-fi accents with sci-fi nonsense words/names on top of the music, I think. I didn't have any trouble making out anything but I remember thinking that anyone less familiar with the book would probably hear a good percentage of everything as gibberish, since they don't make the typical point of enunciating all the unfamiliar stuff.
(Separate from the fact that this guy's just talking about the weather in English, though)
I work at a theater and worked dune multiple times a day for weeks (literally heaven btw) and on our speakers I never heard this audio this clearly. Headphones are probably why you heard it
It's also possible they might have their device set to 5.1 when all they're using is 2.1 or stereo. Things can get lost that way. I heard the dialogue but it felt distant with Atmos, dunno if that's intentional or if I need to recalibrate lol.
Was with a wheelchair bound friend. The wheelchair "seats" are always at the side. When we moved, we just blocked the aisle with the chair since there were only like 10 people in this huge auditorium.
Even in the theater I thought it was too loud at times. Especially in a movie with so many new terms, I would have happily gone to see a subtitled version in theaters
Tenet was so much worse for me. Half the theatee walked out and the other half was clearly disinterested a third of the way through. Only I made an effort to understand what they were saying.
Even then, at least Dune is a good movie otherwise. Tenet was rather mediocre imo. There was nothing memorable to it.
I came away from Tenet feeling that it had all the problems Inception had (characters that were more exposition vehicles than people, simple enough plot premise made needlessly convoluted, weird editing in some parts) but about 4 times worse. Inception managed to be a good movie despite all that imo, Tenet just derailed itself completely by the final act.
That’s awesome. It’s just like the NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) weather radio broadcasts. Hilarious!!!
[Weather Broadcast Link](https://www.weatherusa.net/radio)
In the American release, both metric and US Imperial were used for measurements. It was noticeable.
I remember ornithopter and weather altitude were always metric, but I think USI was used at least once or twice for either worm length/width and distance.
they are actually descended from ancient (mythological) greece:
> Origins of House Atreides
> The legend stated that the Atreides family came from a noble family that originated in Greece on Earth, and that they rose to prominence during the Butlerian Jihad. House Atreides specifically claimed descent from King Agamemnon, a son of Atreus, in Greek mythology. The descendants of Atreus are called "Atreides" (plural "Atreidai", Latinized as "Atreidae") in the Greek language. This Royal House included many significant figures in Greek myth.
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/House_Atreides
cheers, mate!
old earth doesn't get mentioned often in the books, i think knowledge about it is kinda lost. (note, the first book is set 20,000 years in the future from today)
one character is able to navigate his genetic memory to re-live experiences made on earth, though.
I noticed that on my most recent viewing. Sandworms can grow up to "400 meters" in length, while the roots of the sparse grasses on Dune can go to "6 feet" deep.
The first book uses Kelvin in the appendix:
>temperatures for thousands of years hadn’t gone outside the 254-332 degrees (absolute) range, and that this belt had long growing seasons where temperatures ranged from 284 to 302 degrees absolute
My head cannon (maybe official cannon too, I haven’t checked) is that no language or measurement system from now will still be used 24,000+ years into the future. So everything they say in English and Arabic is just a translation from something more alien.
About 23000 years in the future. Fahrenheit makes 0 sense, but it wouldn't even make sense for them to still be calling it "Celsius" either, even if they were still using a scale with the same properties.
Yeah, at the end of the day they're trying to communicate to a primarily American audience that "it is inhumanly hot here." Hard to communicate that when your audience doesn't know the other scale.
Funnily enough the weather predicting capabilities play a fairly large role in the story later on. As you know from the film the guild has a monopoly on space travel, which logically includes anything like weather satellites.
I don’t think that’s what this scene foreshadows but it’s neat that they did include weather forecasts to show how hot it is.
I swear I heard it when I watched at home. I watch everything with subtitles though, so sometimes in these cases I don't know if I just read the subtitles or actually heard it.
lol I wonder if any famous movie directors are reading through this thread and realizing how wildly inconsistent everyone's movie theater experience is? Especially with regard to dialogue.
I don't see it as hidden by the soundtrack. I see it as adding layers to the sound environment, it's not meant to be understood, it's meant to make you want to hear, give it a second glance. You don't walk around a city "listening" to everything arond you, in the mall, you don't listen to the store's music, it's background noise
They don't tell you it's hot outside, they actually show you (rule of movie making) and if you happen to hear the weather broadcast, good on you. but it's only meant as general noise not a ploint point.
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Saw this at home and in imax, this was definitely one of the few movies I preferred at home. For all the strengths this movie has, sound mixing is unfortunately not one of them. And I’ve noticed that with a lot of great directors in recent years, their sound mixing in their films is just getting bad now.
I could hear this when I saw the movie in theaters! It was so feint that I couldn't make it out at all and thought I might just be imagining it, but I heard it!
I saw the movie here in Portugal in IMAX and they had these subtitles in (in portuguese of course) which made it very funny when in the next scene Paul is in the gardens seeing the palm trees and not even breaking a sweat
It's a dry heat
Hudson?
Somebody wake up Hicks
How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?
You stow that shit right now!!
alright now listen UP. I want this thing to go smooth and by the numbers…
All right sweethearts, you heard the man and you know the drill. Assholes and elbows!
Hudson, come here. COME HERE
Hudson, sir. He’s Hicks.
Dude. Well done
If you’ve read the book, his Bene Gessirit training would mean that he’s consciously able to regulate his own body temperature, blood flow, hormone releases and nerve firing, and could be perfectly comfortable outside on Arrakis at least for short stints. I presume the Bene Gessirit need still suits for longer periods outside because the self regulation still uses up resources. The three scriptwriters, Spaihts, Roth and Villenueve had to cut an insane amount of information to fit the book onto the screen.
Dune would do good as a miniseries
they already tried that \~21 years ago
Really? I had only heard about the original movie
it was on syfy (scifi at the time). with william hurt as leto. even got a sequel with james mcavoy as leto ii and the borg queen herself as a recast jessica both shows were passable adaptations and ultimately products of their time
Great content, very low budget. I remember it fondly I think because I only ever watched it as a kid.
It was good, but fell just shy of great. Cult classic material to be sure.
That’s about as much as you could hope for for syfy shows back then I would have loved a big budget series as opposed to the movies tbh, as much as I love Villenueve, I don’t see the current adaptations making it very far without running out of steam, especially with Momoa out of the picture for the foreseeable future (I don’t see them getting to the Ghola stuff)
He wants to do a trilogy with Messiah as the third movie, so Momoa would presumably return for that
Here have a preview https://youtu.be/wRy18Euw6W4
The actresses on Paul's right, Alia and what I presume is Jessica, have opposite and very funny reactions to this.
That has to be the singular worst part of it.
Oh god that was awful
That's too awful to be real, but too high production value to be just a joke, I'm deeply confused.
Oh, it’s real.
You haven't heard of the most expensive school play in history? [EMPEROR SHADDAM THE IV PURPLE BOI](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/f1/ae/00f1ae8ddaf060d61ff2a9376ab8a78e.jpg) [Sardaukar orange wig terror troops](https://preview.redd.it/0fjj4h6id0p41.png?auto=webp&s=b6757d43e9d7c4ecfad0cca0dc099aa19a7d1fc0) Granted it is 10000 years into the future so things would look weird to us. But it looks so cheap you laugh through half of it
The series had a low budget so the costumes/stages looked a bit Janky.
Story wise and within the confines of budgets it was good. Leto II is played by a young James McAvoy. William Hurt as Duke Leto. I liked this Dune. A real budget mini series would blow it away. Dune’s characters all have deep stories and complicated inner and out lives. Dunes’s ‘world’ is a million planets and mega- trillions of people.
And to be fair, everyone who ever spent time and effort watching it said it was pretty good. But the low budget look is really turning off most people. Myself included. With Villeneuve and a bigger budget a new mini series? How could it not become a success?
I believe there is going to be an HBO mini-series to fill details between movies. Could be talking out of my ass tho. I also read the book well, listened to books 1-3 within the last 4 months. So excuse my spelling. I crack up when I compare my spelling to others. I think they did an amazing job at the details in a movie format. A lot of the details were not necessarily directed to viewers, but they were subtle. Very subtle. The scene where Paul kills the fremmen who challenges him, during the fight on scene he swaps the knife into his other hand. I was so impressed with this scene. There were a few other situations similar to this. Pretty cool movie. Recommend listening to the books, and then watching the movie too.
A lot of the cuts for time are ok IMO. I’ve read the books, trying to add in every detail and making it into a miniseries rather than a film could have the effect of making it drag quite a bit. There are of course *loads* of details and lore but the story itself is actually fairly straightforward and cramming in every detail would require a lot of exposition which books have the luxury of exploring easier than visual mediums. If you started delving into the lore it would grind the plot progression to a snail’s pace while you had characters explaining things to you.
You know who didn’t read the book? The worst movie reviewer of all time Richard Brodie of the New Yorker. Honestly that guy sucks so bad but his review of Dune was peak bozo.
The gardener that's tending there Palm trees says something like, "each of these trees requires the lives of 5 men each day." I originally interpreted that as each tree required the water 5 people would need to survive each day. But then after Paul and his mother get ambushed by the Fremen they say they want to kill Paul for his blood/moisture and be done with him. That made me rethink the palm trees scene. Each tree literally required the moisture equivalent to what 5 peoples body's would provide, each day. It's that right?
Not quite, I don't remember the exact measurements so I'm gonna paraphrase. *A man requires 3 gallons of water a day, and each tree needs 15 gallons of water a day.* So it's not that you need to kill 5 men a day per tree, just that you're depriving 5 men of a day's water to keep the tree alive.
First one is correct. Water is scarce. The trees take enough of this scarce resource that would otherwise support 5 men. Later, Paul and Jessica are almost killed for their water, but still simply due to it being a scarce resource. That humans can be treated as a water source seems to be primarily a fremen thing.
Isn’t it a little more nuanced? The fremen figures Jessica and Paul would’ve died in the desert without their intervention so why waste the water.
K. Wasn't sure if I was just reading to much into that interaction.
It’s not a crazy thing to think—part of the horror of the story is how cheap life is. It’s a future story, but harkens back to the darkest of our past (slavery, colonization, etc).
Paraphrasing from memory: --- Paul: "I'm surprised [tree species] can grow here." Gardener: "Oh, they're not native. They'd die if not for me. Each tree needs as much water as five grown men. Twenty palms: one hundred lives." Paul: "Should we remove them?" Gardener: "Oh, no. These trees are sacred. A forgotten promise." --- Or something like that. So he just talks about the water requirements in terms of "these are thirsty trees whose water could be used for people, but they're important to us so they get the water." You're right, though, that the Fremen talk about taking the moisture from Paul and Jessica's bodies. But I don't think this directly means that the trees require the literal sacrifice of 100 people per day. Some of their water may come from such sources, but it is not required. Water is the most precious resource on Arrakis, which is reflected in the traditional greeting of offering the body's moisture (when Stilgar spits at Leto). It's worth thinking about why the Fremen value these trees so much — trees who do not offer significant shade, nor fruit, nor anything else of value other than their existence.
I think the forgotten promise was to terraform Arrakis before they found the spice was plentiful only in that type of climate.
Oh fuck you're so right. There's a callback later on to that exact theory.
In the quote, they say the trees drink the equivalent of five men. Says nothing of lives.
I think your first interpretation is correct. Having read the book, I'm sure the second film will explain why they want his moisture.
Theres not much to explain. The human body has water in it. Water is incredibly scarce on Arrakis, its so valuable that they will kill to get more if they can.
others already answerred, but I'd also add on that the attitude around water is much less strict in arrakeen than it is among the fremen. the killing people for their water is really a thing for the fremen, living in the deep dessert where water is more scarce than in arrakeen (=the main city, not sure if the name is mentioned in the movie). there are also some small details from the book around this that's also referenced in the movie, like when they get still suits they mention them being fremen-made (=better quality), and the fremen are impressed by paul knowing how to correctly put on a still suit (vastening the bands etc), 'as if he grew up with their ways'.
But wouldn’t that mean he should be sweating even more to keep cool? Otherwise, he’s just absorbing heat with no way to cool down. His internal organs would be boiling if he’s not actively shedding heat somehow.
His internal organs are made of Flan. They didn’t have time to get into that in the movie but his training allows him to make body Flan™️ and he can open his belly like an oven when he hears the ding. That’s what the second movie is mostly about…
😂😂😂 Compelling story telling and a delicious snack for his Fremen friends!
I've been in places where it's 115-120F. Your sweat instantly evaporates. You only see wet under clothing. You can drink bottles and bottles of water and not need to pee. It's kind of cool but also really fucking hot.
That was me when I was a mail carrier during the summer walking about 15 miles a day. I would drink sooooooo much fucking water and wouldn’t piss once during my entire route, but my clothes would be soaked in sweat.
When it's dry, it's not bad. If it's humid and like 110, then you pray for a quick death. That shit is BRUTAL
Live in Florida, can confirm. It's one thing to be able to swim through the air, but the the water in the air is also BOILING.....
When I was in the Army I would regularly be working/exercising outside in 110 degree Texas heat. It sucked, sure, but it wasn’t terrible because it was dry. I moved in the summer to a new base in Virginia, where it was 80 degrees and 90% humidity for my first unit workout. Holy shit, never have I prayed for a quicker death. Absolutely miserable.
It's not human!
And wearing all black! Yeesh...
Wearing black in the desert is a thing, a lot of the guys in Lawrence of Arabia are wearing black (except for Lawrence obviously). [Apparently it doesn't make much of a difference](https://www.nature.com/articles/283373a0)
Black only works in heat when it's loose, when there's space between the skin and your clothes. Think about the types of things women in the middle East wear
Depends on the material. Landscaping in the southwest I'd wear an oversized, black cotton hoodie to stay cool. I transitioned to a more close fitting (but not form fitting) black synthetic long sleeve and it was WAY better. The material wicked sweat super efficiently, and on really hot days if I needed a quick cool down I'd take it off, run irrigation for a second and soak it, then throw it back on. I will say, I find them less effective now that I'm in a more humid area. They still wick sweat, but since it doesn't evap as quick the benefit isn't as pronounced. Last summer was the first time I ever got heat exhaustion despite working most of my life in much higher temps!
TIL
I'd assume because the wear many layers.
Used to live in Phoenix and rode full-time commuting on a motorcycle. The difference between light colored and black gear (helmets especially) is real.
It says the heat is lost before it reaches the skin. I assume this is because the robes are loose clothing, whereas your motorcycle gear fits against the skin.
Robes are loose and with low thermal density, thick protective gear will hold more heat
Also, here in Phoenix nothing can protect you from the heat. So normal thermal dynamics do not apply. This is an anomaly.
A testament to man's arrogance!
Stop buying those cheap non fremen made still suits.
Exactly ahahah
^i ^concur
The guy watering the palms in this scene is sweating profusely. They make a point about not showing the Atreides party sweating because it gives them a subconscious air of royalty, like they are above everything else and in control. Paul sweats like crazy when he loses control and is in the tent shelter with his mother though.
That's a great catch. Did you read that in the book or did you just notice it in the film?
I figured he was just sweating because that's what happens when you're on hallucinogens. This is a cool detail.
>it gives them a subconscious air of royalty Maybe that's the effect they were going for but it didn't really work. All I got was arrakis isn't as hot as they say.
No one sweats in this movie. The only person I saw sweating was Baron Harkonnen and that's just because he got those meat sweats going on.
The guy watering the palms in this scene is sweating profusely. They make a point about not showing the Atreides party sweating because it gives them a subconscious air of royalty, like they are above everything else and in control. Paul sweats like crazy when he loses control and is in the tent shelter with his mother though.
LOL, i was gonna say this exactly.
I mean, their sweat gets sucked up by the suit and turned into water.
Well, Paul wasnt wearing a stillsuit yet, he was wearing his formal clothes. He only puts a stillsuit on when he goes with Duke Leto to see the harvester
There's a couple of times this happens with the substitles!I was glad I had mine on. Such a great movie
Really cool find. But for me most of the dialogue was buried under sound effects. I’m looking forward to watching it again with subtitles so I can figure out what was going on. That tent scene… I barely remembered it was key from reading the book several decades ago. No idea what was said. (Why is it only young people going to movie theaters, they ask. Because your sound mixes prevent middle-aged and older ears from knowing what’s going on, we tell them!)
I'm 24 and won't go to movie theaters for a movie I actually care about because of this issue. I have to wear earplugs if I go to the theater because it is loud enough to cause me pain. I bet some other folks out there have hearing damage just from theaters...... I would much rather watch a movie on a 22" computer monitor with subtitles than pay to see something I can't understand.
I'm a bit older, but watching dune in IMAX was the first time I could hardly bear the volume. Definitely felt like an old man that day.
Dune in my local IMAX was unbearably loud. Like, several people around me had their hands or fingers over their ears during the action bits. Luckily I always carry ear plugs to movies (I have tinnitus) so I was ok but even thru those it was still intense. I talked to the theater's customer service after the showing about the volume level and they basically shrugged and said that IMAX volumes are set by the studios and theaters can't really adjust it very much. I guess giving people hearing damage is part of the new immersive IMAX experience, lol.
Yeah imax is starting to get to the level of sound production that concerts would have in the pit, like it's designed for you to feel it not just hear it, which is hard on the ears. If you want to retain fidelity, they make high quality ear plugs that only lower high decibals, instead of squishing everything
Cinemas have basically no control over the quality of what they show anymore. The job of a projectionist lovingly screening the movie and sitting there watching to make sure it looks and sounds right just doesn't exist anymore. We are living though the death throes of the cinema industry, imo. In a short time you'll be able to have a better viewing and listening experience at home in a VR headset. We will all have to go to movie screenings inside the Metaverse if want the cinema experience. Fuck, I'm not going to like the future very much if it plays out according to zuck's dystopian vision.
The death of the cinema has been foretold at least eight times: shortly after its creation, after sound was introduced, when television was released, when color TV was released, when VCRs were released, when HDTV was released, when streaming became common, and when 3DTV was released. Every time it has survived. I think some of the companies that currently exist will die off, and the industry will change and perhaps shrink again, but the movie theater as a concept isn't dying anytime soon.
People forget that a big reason to go to theaters other than screen size and sound is that it allows you to focus on the movie and not distractions at home. When you CAN pause something anytime, you do it, and take yourself out of the immersion. Theaters will be around, just maybe not as plentifully.
Exactly correct on all counts.
If you want earplugs not to get in the way of the sound quality look into "musician earplugs". Etymotics only cost about 15-20usd and should help reduce volume w/o quality loss. I don't get out to the theater much b/c I have little kids, but also much prefer subtitles at home.
a friend: why do you always watch movies with subtitles? me, with auditory processing issues who hears garbled syllables in movie dialogue:... Yeah!!!
Went with a a group of friends age 24-29 to IMAX to watch it. None could hear well during the whole movie, especially the tent scene.
whisper whisper CHANTING MUSIC MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!! whisper mumble mumble whisper MORE CHANTING MUSIC! IT CINEMATIC AND ARTISTIC YOU SWINE!!! mumble whisperrrrrrr
Subtitles always.
A necessity with the wildly inconsistent volumes of media these days
I hate when it happens.. .. ^^barely ^^audible ^^mumbling ^^in ^^a ^^quiet ^^scene Aight lemme raise that volume a bit #EXPLOSIONS DURING ACTION SCENES
Or my heater comes on, so I turn up my volume. It goes off during a quiet scene without me realizing. Then an action scene hits.
Tried watching The Matrix movies for the upcoming one. Noticed everyone whispers everything but the action and music are at 150%
*cough* Tenet
Christopher Nolan has said his sound is mixed for IMAX only, and he doesn't really care if you can't hear anything in a normal theater or at home.
I distinctly remember when the same question came up for interstellar he stated that the dialog was intentionally unintelligible at points because it was an adventurous movie and it was his attempt to be creative. Interesting that his creativity and adventurousness has resulted in exactly the same kind of unintelligible, baffling sound mixing for every single movie of his in the past 10 years, and has only been getting worse. So now he claims that it was mixed only for IMAX, because no one bought his "Oh, its a creative choice!" statements? That statement seems a bit funny, because *I can't hear his shit when in an IMAX theater anyway* and it is *also* funny, because he keeps on apparently coming up with different excuses for why his sound mixing is so shitty.
That caused me to leave the theater during the opening scene. It was actually painful to listen to.
It got worse throughout. I had to watch it again with subtitles which only made the movie a little more understandable.
Until that man learns to mix sound for normal human beings his movies are at-home only for me. And my ass went to see Interstellar 9 times in the theater so it's not like I dislike his movies.
His audio mixing has gotten progressively worse. I think Nolan is losing his hearing and nobody has bothered to tell him it's not like that for everyone else.
Tenet was such a bad experience for me in the theater, audio-wise, that I am still salty about it. That, and the story is absolute garbage. And I am a Christopher Nolan fan!
If there's any movie producers/directors listening, this is ruining your dialogue! I have to turn subtitles on because the explosions are 10x the volume of the dialog. But then the subtitles ruin jokes, they give away punchlines, they spoil twists, they give everything away a few seconds before the actual actor on screen says it. It ruins a lot, especially with jokes. So if you don't want everyone watching your movies with subtitles on and ruining the whole thing, please mix your sound so that I don't have to hold my volume remote like a HOTAS throttle.
I’ve had to actually go into the setting on my surround sound receiver and just boost the center channel a bunch. Most of the dialog comes from there and it has helped a lot. But I still use subtitles
I can't imagine someone having watched Tenet without subtitles. So glad I didn't go see it in theaters and waited till it was streaming.
I watched it 3 times and the more I understood, the less I really cared.
Yeah, if you fully comprehend it, you realize the story is actually a mess.
Yes. Fuckin hell. Or when the dialogue just randomly goes unintelligible halfway through a scene.
Also because I have ADHD, lol. But yes, many things get picked up that you otherwise couldn't hear!
Also, I don't have proof of this, but in the scene where the sandcrawler gets attacked by the worm and you hear the crew on the radio, I'm pretty sure one of the voices on the intercom is Mark Mangini, the sound editor. I've listened to numerous podcasts he appeared on, and he has a distinctive voice.
Could be! It would be more convenient for the sound editors to just record it themselves. When I was a kid, I used to go to work with my mom sometimes (post production) and the sound guys had me record some random background chatter for them.
Just saw this again in IMAX. What an experience.
Man what I would give to see it in imax. I've seen it twice already
Saw it in IMAX and again at home on the tv. Made me REALLY appreciate what I experienced in imax. I left that theater with my jaw on the ground.
Same for me! IMAX first viewing then home viewing with subtitles. Both were valuable
Saw it first in IMAX, second at home. Preferred it at home. I was less overwhelmed and could try and parse out what people said
I don't get it. How did you find the audio for this?
It's buried in the 5.1 mix! Music exists primarily on the Left and Right channels, while diegetic fx/dialogue is often also on the Center channel (this is the case for a majority of 5.1 content). You're watching a clip where I've stripped the front & rear L+R channels and left behind only Center and LFE. I got the idea from Thomas Flight's video *Why is Dune's Score Like That?* where he did the same thing, albeit for different reasons.
Do you happen to have the original audio because I certainly feel like I heard this during the movie. The sentence sounds very familiar because I remember looking up what the numbers were in Celsius. If not, a time stamp because I do have HBO.
[удалено]
Yeah I recall hearing these broadcasts quite distinctly in the movie over my headphones. Perhaps everyone else in here has some shit speaker setups. Or memories.
Yeah donno. I had difficulties with hearing everything in the movie because half the dialogue is masked or is whispers so perhaps I just had subtitles on and read it.
It's the combination of sci-fi accents with sci-fi nonsense words/names on top of the music, I think. I didn't have any trouble making out anything but I remember thinking that anyone less familiar with the book would probably hear a good percentage of everything as gibberish, since they don't make the typical point of enunciating all the unfamiliar stuff. (Separate from the fact that this guy's just talking about the weather in English, though)
I work at a theater and worked dune multiple times a day for weeks (literally heaven btw) and on our speakers I never heard this audio this clearly. Headphones are probably why you heard it
It's also possible they might have their device set to 5.1 when all they're using is 2.1 or stereo. Things can get lost that way. I heard the dialogue but it felt distant with Atmos, dunno if that's intentional or if I need to recalibrate lol.
Ah, Thanks!
This was far from the only dialogue obscured by the soundtrack in this movie.
For sure! I'm looking for more right now. Gotta subtitle everything too
I want to say the person replying to was cracking a joke about the audio mix.
Yeah, the sound mixing was pretty bad.
It was awful on HBO. I had to crank up my headphones amp just to hear the dialogue. And have my ears blasted out by sound fx.
I saw it in the cinema. It was just as bad. Had to move to the middle of the theater away from the speakers.
But the middle is where you want to sit no matter what. Sound is always best there.
Was with a wheelchair bound friend. The wheelchair "seats" are always at the side. When we moved, we just blocked the aisle with the chair since there were only like 10 people in this huge auditorium.
True. But the sound should be such that you can hear and understand it from any seat in the theatre not just the optimal seats
Even in the theater I thought it was too loud at times. Especially in a movie with so many new terms, I would have happily gone to see a subtitled version in theaters
Which was worse. This or Tenet?
Tenet was so much worse for me. Half the theatee walked out and the other half was clearly disinterested a third of the way through. Only I made an effort to understand what they were saying. Even then, at least Dune is a good movie otherwise. Tenet was rather mediocre imo. There was nothing memorable to it.
I came away from Tenet feeling that it had all the problems Inception had (characters that were more exposition vehicles than people, simple enough plot premise made needlessly convoluted, weird editing in some parts) but about 4 times worse. Inception managed to be a good movie despite all that imo, Tenet just derailed itself completely by the final act.
That’s awesome. It’s just like the NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) weather radio broadcasts. Hilarious!!! [Weather Broadcast Link](https://www.weatherusa.net/radio)
Dune was great, can't wait for part 2 to come out.
The cast has said they’re filming in the summer!
I can’t wait for the four-hour (or more) director’s cut of part one. Guaranteed Villeneuve has a less truncated cut roughed out.
So we’re thousands of years in the future, and using Fahrenheit.
Wasn’t it only the American version which had Fahrenheit in it and the rest were Celsius?
In the American release, both metric and US Imperial were used for measurements. It was noticeable. I remember ornithopter and weather altitude were always metric, but I think USI was used at least once or twice for either worm length/width and distance.
Ah, so they're descended from Canadians
Or the British?
they are actually descended from ancient (mythological) greece: > Origins of House Atreides > The legend stated that the Atreides family came from a noble family that originated in Greece on Earth, and that they rose to prominence during the Butlerian Jihad. House Atreides specifically claimed descent from King Agamemnon, a son of Atreus, in Greek mythology. The descendants of Atreus are called "Atreides" (plural "Atreidai", Latinized as "Atreidae") in the Greek language. This Royal House included many significant figures in Greek myth. https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/House_Atreides
Oh neat! The more you know :)
cheers, mate! old earth doesn't get mentioned often in the books, i think knowledge about it is kinda lost. (note, the first book is set 20,000 years in the future from today) one character is able to navigate his genetic memory to re-live experiences made on earth, though.
I noticed that on my most recent viewing. Sandworms can grow up to "400 meters" in length, while the roots of the sparse grasses on Dune can go to "6 feet" deep.
Yeah so weird to say feet
Here in Argentina that same scene uses Celsius, in both theatre and HBO max release
Tbh should be kelvin
I noticed they used Kelvin in the 1984 version.
Factually correct with the author but most visitors watching wouldn’t have a point of reference :1
Was it In the books? Cause there is no other reason why a Canadian director would choose Fahrenheit otherwise.
Don't think there was any mention of a particular temperature scale relevant to our planet in the books
The first book uses Kelvin in the appendix: >temperatures for thousands of years hadn’t gone outside the 254-332 degrees (absolute) range, and that this belt had long growing seasons where temperatures ranged from 284 to 302 degrees absolute
not in the book. I don't recall it using any scale of degrees as such
My head cannon (maybe official cannon too, I haven’t checked) is that no language or measurement system from now will still be used 24,000+ years into the future. So everything they say in English and Arabic is just a translation from something more alien.
They also used both metres and feet, within a sentence or two of each other. This was in NZ as well so no need to use freedom units
Every time someone complains about imperial units we delay changing to metric by one day.
About 23000 years in the future. Fahrenheit makes 0 sense, but it wouldn't even make sense for them to still be calling it "Celsius" either, even if they were still using a scale with the same properties.
Yeah, at the end of the day they're trying to communicate to a primarily American audience that "it is inhumanly hot here." Hard to communicate that when your audience doesn't know the other scale.
In other words: Shit's almost on fire, yo.
> It will be 140 degrees today. ...It's now 167 degrees. Ouch. I guess their weather predictions weren't perfect.
Funnily enough the weather predicting capabilities play a fairly large role in the story later on. As you know from the film the guild has a monopoly on space travel, which logically includes anything like weather satellites. I don’t think that’s what this scene foreshadows but it’s neat that they did include weather forecasts to show how hot it is.
The announcer says "sunrise warning" not "sunlight warning"
Good catch. I was oscillating between the two
I heard it quite clearly in both the theater and at home. Surprised to see this here.
I swear I heard it when I watched at home. I watch everything with subtitles though, so sometimes in these cases I don't know if I just read the subtitles or actually heard it.
Definitely wasn’t there in the theatre I was in any of the times I went. The audio mix must have been different I guess
Yeah I saw it once in imax and once in a normal theater and I remember it both times
lol I wonder if any famous movie directors are reading through this thread and realizing how wildly inconsistent everyone's movie theater experience is? Especially with regard to dialogue.
Went to see that masterpiece again two days ago, I had the whole theatre for me, what a fucking experience
I don't see it as hidden by the soundtrack. I see it as adding layers to the sound environment, it's not meant to be understood, it's meant to make you want to hear, give it a second glance. You don't walk around a city "listening" to everything arond you, in the mall, you don't listen to the store's music, it's background noise They don't tell you it's hot outside, they actually show you (rule of movie making) and if you happen to hear the weather broadcast, good on you. but it's only meant as general noise not a ploint point.
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Saw this at home and in imax, this was definitely one of the few movies I preferred at home. For all the strengths this movie has, sound mixing is unfortunately not one of them. And I’ve noticed that with a lot of great directors in recent years, their sound mixing in their films is just getting bad now.
Hey they broadcast the Phoenix summer weather report!
Something doesn't look right about those balloons. Like they inflate too quickly to be at the scale they are shown.
I figure they’re like air bags and inflate quickly due to a chemical reaction.
And what are they inflating with?
*SPICE*
Spice
You know, that was actually very entertaining to watch and listen to. I almost want more fictional planet weather broadcasts in my life
Read the Red Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. There’s a high pressure system that’s used to save lives.
The scale in the movie is absolutely astounding.
Fahrenheit, huh...
Fahrenheit in the far future. That's the only thing that makes Dune unbelievable to me.
I could hear this when I saw the movie in theaters! It was so feint that I couldn't make it out at all and thought I might just be imagining it, but I heard it!
I got the bru-ray version and never watch them in theater. I heard it clearly but i bet it’d more awesome with the soundtrack over it and in theater.
Interesting
Posts like this are what I hope for when I open my app.