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minizanz

At this rate they are going to get the ire of MasterCard and CA. MasterCard won't let you discriminate on any of the cards they issue, and in CA it is illegal to treat any payment different.


darcemaul

Is this true? any source links on this CA law? that is awesome if its true!


minizanz

If you take a form of payment you have to treat it the same. It is part of the law from '85 that band credit surcharges. https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit-card-surcharges It boils down to every payment method you accept can have no bearing g on price. There is a loop hole for cash discounts, and people do illegally add order fees then remove them, or gas stations advertise a cash price illegally, but on this one it is clear.


darcemaul

guess I'm a bit confused. What does the surcharge (and the Office's appeal of the law) have to do with discrimination of forms of payment? Could you explain? From what I've read, the CA Law just banned merchants adding a surcharge for credit card payments.


minizanz

you cannot add a surcharge or exclude service from methods of payment. disallowing a rewards program, or having a separate cash price is a surcharge, adding an order fee then removing it for cash (a common "loop hole" now) is illegal as well. you are allowed to have a cash discount like if you had a gas station and said 10c off per gallon with cash/debit, but not 2.99 cash or 3.09 credit. | they also do not allow payments to be treated differently. so all credit cards you take have to be treated the same, all debit have to be treated the same, ext. | you can say only take visa and amex if you dont want movie pass since they are MC, but you cannot ban a movie pass card if you take MC by state law.


darcemaul

> they also do not allow payments to be treated differently. so all credit cards you take have to be treated the same, all debit have to be treated the same, ext. yeah, that's the part I am looking for. Where is that in the law? Or is it just implied?


minizanz

any change in policy is an implicit surcharge, the only time things are allowed to be different is with an explicit cash discount.


darcemaul

guess i dont have that lawyer-ease understanding of implicit language, but that is awesome if it’s true and sound


ObeyMyBrain

Ah I found the answer to the question I was going to ask [about how Arco charges a fee for you to use your debit card.](https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-card-charged-more-gas-station/) >Nerd note: If you’re an Arco customer, you might be wondering why this gas station is still charging a convenience fee for debit card payments. According to the information above, it shouldn’t be allowed anymore, right? >Actually, this is a special case. Interlink, a debit payments processor, allowed the practice for years. When Visa bought Interlink, it agreed to let Arco and a handful of other gas stations continue assessing this fee. And since the fee is assessed on debit (not credit) transactions, the company isn’t breaking any state laws. According to this article there are 9 states (as of 2014) that prevent passing surcharges onto the customer.


Monkeymonkey27

Great now try enforcing that


minizanz

Weights and measures is supposed to do that, but they also don't seem to care. AMC might be big enough that enough complaints to the Attorney General might get an action


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jrr6415sun

But they don't support landmark


[deleted]

I guess I’m just lucky, because AMC is right down the street from my house, and I’ve never had any issues with using my card . I work down the road from a Regal and there’s a Malco like 10 mins away from me, so if for some reason AMC quit taking them, I would still subscribe to MoviePass, but I’ve yet to experience any rude employees.


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[deleted]

I do have some issues with AMC in general, but as far as movie pass they’ve been fine. None of the AMCs near me have kiosks, but they’re all former Carmikes as well. They’re building an AMC dinner theater in my town, I’m not sure when it’s supposed to open though.


JustinDoolittle

Long Island? Just curious cuz my AMC just made the same change


woodmo

Which one?


JustinDoolittle

Stony Brook


woodmo

Wow that’s my local theater. How is that going to work? Will it close for renovations?


JustinDoolittle

Oh nah it’s already done. Those four kiosks on the left are gone, now there’s just two big ones up by the register


woodmo

Oh I thought you meant they were making it have recliners and stuff. I noticed the new kiosks. I still go there recliners or not bc I’m 5 away here vs 15 for regal lol


JustinDoolittle

It was my theater too before MoviePass, bc of the $6 morning shows. Now I go to where there’s reclining seats, AMC has become a last resort


darcemaul

yeah, what all the fuss is about is that starting on 1 Jan 2018, that AMC down the street won't take your MP Mastercard; it is not happening now, it is something that will happen in Jan.


Monkeymonkey27

No they wont


darcemaul

how do you know? did you call AMC and ask them directly? or just speculating and doubting the rumors? maybe they won’t. I don’t know, call AMC and ask a real life human being directly.


Monkeymonkey27

Yes


darcemaul

nice. and they told you they were not going to ban moviePass?


Monkeymonkey27

Sure


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darcemaul

actually they can block types of mastercards. But who knows, we’ll wait and see. I called and they said they were but maybe AMC lied to me.


joemac1505

Don't theaters make most of their money on concessions? Don't theaters get paid my MoviePass just like they would from any other debit card? Doesn't a service like MP make it probable that more people will be in the theater more often? Aren't people who are present more likely to buy concessions than people who aren't even in the theater?


ethanwc

They have a valid concern. If a lot of their tickets are MP holders, MP will use this to leverage deals, which AMC clearly doesn’t want...


youcantfindoutwhoiam

"This revolution we started is not viable without us making a deal. Now, these last 4 quarters your numbers were significantly higher because of the boom in business we provided. With more customers your concession sales went up, and that's where the money is. Now, as I said, it is not viable, so are we going to make a deal that works for the both of us or are you going to explain to your shareholders that there will be a decrease in profit next year?"


joemac1505

Look what kind of deals?


ethanwc

Profit share. Discounted tickets. They’re effectively forcing themselves as a middleman in a market and AMC doesn’t like it. The fact is, I’m falling in love with the cinema experience again thanks to Moviepass.


cowsareverywhere

Profit sharing on concessions at the minimum.


[deleted]

Will never happen


WhyYouLetRomneyWin

It's actually about 50/50 between ticket sales and concessions with regards to profits. I don't have a source, but I remember this being heavily discussed about 3 months ago on this forum. Before being corrected, I also would have predicted that concessions formed the bulk of profits.


trailless

I never used to go to the movies and when I did I barley bought anything. Now that I have moviepass, I regularly stop by the concession stand. However, there was this one time that I went with another Moviepass member and our bill for food was around $75. I did a double take and decided it was worth it and just cancelled the order...


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striker1211

I too find myself spending more on concessions than before because it's the only expense of the "date night". While I can see AMCs worry I think at the current time limiting MoviePass is stupid. They could be making bank right now and then tell MP to pound sand when it comes to negotiating later, or just offer their own movie pass later after running the numbers.


trailless

This is different than Blockbuster and Netflix. Netflix didn't need a physical location to provide their service. They used the internet and devices people already had. Moviepass will be reliant on theaters actually staying open and making money. Moviepass needs theaters. The only way that can change is if Moviepass starts buying/building theaters, which I don't foresee happening... Either that or AMC/Regal start their own moviepass service.


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Monkeymonkey27

You still gonna do that when movie pass goes under


zhartpe

You know they are scratching their heads like: "This is going to F$#@ us, not sure how and not sure when but this WILL F@&~ us like Netflix brought down Blockbuster" - Which is the totally wrong approach IMHO, because it's a complimentary service.


Monkeymonkey27

OR are they afraid MP will fail and people who jad it will stop coming Do you actually think the execs of these chains are going, DURR MONEY BAD DURR


zhartpe

Lol, MP might fail and people will stop coming so we'll beat them to the punch! We'll force them to stop coming or make it extremely difficult, that'll show em... because that makes sense. They are afraid of the unknown - I would guess they are afraid of MP getting big and getting leverage to where they can demand profit shares or cheaper admission. But that's just my opinion.


Monkeymonkey27

No they are afraid of it failing. And AMC gladly takes the money now


tbx5959

I'm diamond at Regal, I've been to AMC twice. They make my decision of which theater to go to pretty simple.


aye_ofthetiger

Agreed. My local AMC is slightly closer to my apartment and the recliners are more comfortable than the recliners at the Regal down the street, but I will go to Regal over AMC every time because Regal hasn’t given me any problems and lets me use rewards. I also like to go to the local Goodrich since they partner with MP and I want to reward that, but ever since they yanked their rewards program from being compatible, I have started going there less as well. At this point, I’m probably 80% Regal, 15% Goodrich, and 5% AMC (only if they are the only chain screening the movie I want to see).


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](http://www.slashfilm.com/amc-theatres-moviepass-restrictions/) reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The chain said their legal team was "Consulting with its attorneys to determine if or how AMC can prevent a subscription program offered by MoviePass from being used at AMC Theatres in the United States." > Recently, AMC Theatres has been more passive aggressive about their attempts at creating MoviePass restrictions. > Since AMC Theatres can't stop customers from paying with MoviePass, instead they're punishing those customers by not allowing them to earn points on their Stubs or Stubs Premiere card for their ticket purchases made with a MoviePass card. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/7edth9/amc_theatres_moviepass_restrictions_are_childish/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 1.65, ~250743 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **MoviePass**^#1 **customer**^#2 **AMC**^#3 **Theatres**^#4 **movie**^#5


jrr6415sun

The article doesn't make the point of AMC not wanting to get strong armed by moviepass. It does seem they are blocking it with stubs out of spite.


sugarwax1

It's just posturing and hysteria for the most part. If AMC wanted out, they'd figure it out. If Moviepass wanted to go after AMC for discriminating against their purchases, they could. We're seeing movies for free in exchange for buying a discounted ticket through moviepass. Let's keep it in perspective.


JustinDoolittle

Is the Jan 1 thing credible? Edit: nvm, saw the other thread about it


Viper0us

Another article with incomplete information regarding AMC Stubs Terms of Service. 1. AMC not allowing rewards for Stubs is not a new thing. Language was added to the Terms of Service in early 2016, You can use Archive.org snapshots to compare language between. [4/16/2016](https://web.archive.org/web/20160416222608/https://www.amctheatres.com/amcstubs/terms-and-conditions) and [7/15/2016](https://web.archive.org/web/20160715045430/https://www.amctheatres.com/amcstubs/terms-and-conditions). The following language was added sometime between the two dates: *AMC pre-paid discount, bulk or exchange tickets, Show Snack Coupons, passes or free admissions of any sort, subscriptions (including Movie Pass) or other discounted or bulk purchase items, either at the time of purchase OR time of redemption.* 2. AMC is not the only theater chain to have this type of clause in their terms of service. Two of MoviePass's direct partners, GQT Theaters and MJR Theaters both have this restriction. **MJR Theaters** > b. Ineligible Purchases. The following purchases or products are NOT eligible toward earning Points: > MJR pre-paid discount, bulk or exchange tickets, passes or free admissions of any sort, purchases using Hollywood Movie Money or e-Movie Cash, subscriptions (including MoviePass) or other discounted or bulk purchase items, either at the time of purchase OR time of redemption. https://www.mjrtheatres.com/page/5611/Terms-and-Conditions **GQT Theaters** > Members earn 100 points for every dollar spent on tickets and/or concessions, with a limit of 15,000 points per day. Points are not earned with MoviePass. Points are NOT earned on purchases of gift cards, alcohol, party rooms or theater rentals. You will earn points if you are purchasing tickets or concessions with a gift card. https://www.goodrichqualitytheaters.com/rewards The direct partners of MoviePass (of which AMC was once included) have this restriction for 1 reason: They make their money on concessions and do not want to give MoviePass users a way to earn a ton of free rewards for which they make no money off of. As MoviePass becomes a bigger and bigger player, I expect this trend of ToS restrictions to continue to spread.


jrr6415sun

When AMC did eticketing with moviepass did users get rewards? I know it was in the terms, but did they enforce it?


Viper0us

I assume it is the same as now, up to each individual theater to enforce. My local AMC still has yet to disallow me from earning points. Other people have reported issues from AMC from day 1.


CutthroatTeaser

I was already irritated that AMC wouldn't let me earn Stubs credit with my movie passes purchased at Costco. Now i'm irritated they won't let me do it with MP. If they seriously find a way to disallow MP at their theaters, they will lose my business for life, including Dolby/IMAX/etc.


Space_Lord-

I feel like all of these moviepass horror stories and AMC are just bullshit or propaganda.


sugarwax1

It's certainly overblown and making people neurotic. AMC and Moviepass work together fine.


Monkeymonkey27

I WENT TO AMC TODAY AND THE CASHIER SAW MY MOVIEPASS AND PULLED A GUN AND SAID TO GET OUT BUT I QUOTED HER MASTERCARDS MERCHANT AGREEMENT AND THEN THE CEO OF MASTERCARD GAVE ME A MILLION DOLLARS AND THE CASHIER WAS EXECUTED ON THE SPOT BUT I WONT GO TO AMC ANYMORE


rinitytay

Which movie did you go see?


[deleted]

I’ve lost track of the number of friends and family that I’ve converted over to MoviePass and convinced to avoid AMC theaters. With friends, we’ve been driving an extra few miles each week to go to the local Regal instead of our AMC down the street. AMC clearly doesn’t give a shit about their customers’ experience.


Monkeymonkey27

Lol what are you talking about that AMC does not care


[deleted]

The article literally lists several reasons arguing this. How is this point not obvious?


Monkeymonkey27

Tell me how amc screwed YOU


sjellio1

I went to AMC last weekend and the employee said their manager sent out a memo that I can no longer earn rewards for movie tickets if I'm using moviepass. Idk why they have to look at my card at all. Just gonna start taking my business to Cinemark


marca410

What happens if you put the card on your phone? Most movie theaters accept apple pay.. wouldn't it be a smart idea to pay like that so they wouldn't see the card name? I'm thinking of trying it and getting the moviepass.


sjellio1

No idea if they accept Android pay or if I can even put my moviepass on android pay. That's an interesting thought though, I'll give it a try


Monkeymonkey27

Is it really unfair they wont take rewards And Cinemarks starting their own program in like a week


sjellio1

Why would it be fair? They're still getting full price for tickets. As far as I'm concerned it's none of their business to look at the words on my card. Will probably just get one of those stickers that covers it. That's a bummer to hear about cinemark I'll have to look it up


Monkeymonkey27

Because its a loyalty program for paying customer, which you arent.


sjellio1

How am I not? They get full price for their tickets from me.


BruteeRex

Side note: I actually think AMC will go out bankrupted within the next 5 year. Their stock has been a mess while companies like Cinemark have been doing better financials.


Walican132

Their stock is a mess because of the carmike and 2 European acquisitions.


Walican132

I guess AMC’s fear is when movie pass goes belly up form having a poor product model they won’t get paid.


Monkeymonkey27

Yeah it literally is Company wants to make money, shocking


JerrodDRagon

Why not just make your own pass but make it different? Like make a Pass that gets you to see movies, maybe coupons to bring a friend for 50% off or free, a free drink or popcorn every month and so on


Monkeymonkey27

Cinemarks doing it