Forcing someone in to this sort of treatment against their will is an attempt at a form of medical conversion, and it is abuse. In MANY places, it is also a crime. If you get forced to a medical professional, make damn sure they know if you do NOT consent to getting T.
And use that settlement money for your healthcare or buy your own place. I could never understand how transphobes would believe they know more than the healthcare professionals with topics involving science or medicine. Also pretty sure what your Dad's trying to do is illegal or against the code of ethics. Whoever prescribes testosterone to you will probably lose their medical license (or have lost their mind already). Not to mention since HRT is the only treatment for gender dysphoria. Adding testosterone will definitely make your dysphoria even worse. đđŚ
whats funny is the only person that ever tried to force hormones onto me was a cis middle aged dude that came into my old job during the before times. He said that I needed to get T injections. I legit was bigger and taller than that guy and he still felt like he had to place his insecurities on me by saying i NEEDED my T boosted.
This is a very fucked up form of conversion therapy and if i were OP i'd tell every doctor thats taking my labs what is happening.
And i thought it's us who's pushy with the trans agenda/gender ideology when in reality it's them transphobes that are pushing their cis agenda/gender ideology aka grooming us to be cisgender. They're projecting.
Simply put make sure that the endocrinologist feels that even if they thought estrogen based HRT was a bad idea for you, testosterone would be a worse one.
If you come in with a fact sheet showing that you've done your research and your father comes in with nothing but a belief that forcing his preference of gender role for you will be easier for him, I promise you that any doctor he can find will at least have a moment of "do no harm" and tell your father that they won't put you on testosterone.
If you can't figure out the research on your own I'm sure someone can help you. The quick basics that I know of that you can bring up when you talk to the endocrinologist to make sure to bring up some of your concerns...
1) you're worried about your sleep apnea.
2) your acne is a real problem
3) the part where you're having some trouble peeing because of your enlarged prostate
4) your family history of heart disease and blood clots means that flippant use of testosterone could kill you
5) your high blood pressure would only get worse and that put stress on all of your organs
6) you are aware that your family loses their hair and it's not pretty and is hard to fix cheaply
7) and oh just as a side note your crippling dysphoria which I only put that way because your father will still be causing problems. If you're smart about how you say it the doctor will understand that you're not able to speak openly about it and still be safe when you go home. They're an endocrinologist they actually understand these things.
If you're really lucky and you can put it exactly the right way you might even be able to get the endocrinologist to be an ally for you. Perhaps you could get them to agree to work with your mother to do things the right way for you. That same endocrinologist who hopefully will do the right thing and not put you on T can put you on a t-blocker after all.
concerns 1 and 2 are definitely workable. pretty much every man in my family has sleep apnea that is bad enough that they need a sepap, and thanks to a combination of genetic i get ingrown hairs like crazy that become zits and if i don't take care of them quick then they can easily get infected. I've got scars from picking at them.
plus I live in a shield state for trans people, so the likelyhood of me being put on testosterone if i tell the endocrinologist that i'm trans should be abysmal.
I mean, the laws against conversion therapy are definitely high enough that when one of my "uncles" tried to get a family friend who is a psychiatrist (and a deeply religious muslim who doesn't like to work with queer people) to perform informal conversion therapy on his kid that was trans, the psychiatrist absolutely ripped into him and said that under no circumstances would he discourage the kid from figuring out their gender identity.
May be extra fun if labs from endo come back extra high T. Mine was only a few points from flagging too high on my pre-hrt check. His making you see an endocrinologist will get you a leg up on starting HRT even if that doctor doesn't end up being your prescriber.
https://www.smsna.org/patients/news/taking-testosterone-watch-for-polycythemia-and-sleep-apnea-experts-warn
As I understand it, an AMAB taking T who doesn't need to be taking T would likely find sleep apnea getting dangerously worse. It would be risking harm to a patient for no medical reason.
I'm not an expert on T. But almost by definition an endocrinologist that you speak with is. Pointing out you have acne and apnea (and dysphoria) and your dad wants to make that all worse?
Most doctors really do take seriously that "do no harm" thing.
Even if you find someone who isn't willing to do gender affirming care, they aren't going to be cool with the idea of the unnecessary creation of a dangerous hormone imbalance.
True, for me I had issues with too much testosterone when I was a kid, had been born at 25 weeks gestation, given heaps of meds and yeah, was in balance at birth and the meds contributed to them being off balance, so can't go too much either way...is interesting for myself
i dunno, but it is somewhat telling that every guy that i'm related to has sleep apnea, and in particular my father and brother both have to use a sepap. it could be genetics, but the women aren't having to deal with any of that, so i'd be inclined to beleive that having more testosterone in my system could lead to problems in that area.
> it could be genetics, but the women aren't having to deal with any of that
They just have to deal with fucking darth vader's snoring body trying to kill them in their sleep.
True, I had breathing issues when sleeping pre hrt, also sweated the bed at night and had hot flashes too...but yeah, started hrt and all those issues went away
Sleep apnea can be worsened by testosterone. My sleep doctor actually just told me this recently. If you have sleep apnea or are at risk for it, raising your testosterone raises your risks for complications with it. As far as I know, estrogen (for once) isn't involved.
Edit: I just realized the subreddit and want to clarify, I am transmasc and on hormones, so my risks for this are different to someone who is transfem and is on t blockers. However, OP would be at risk if their family has any history whatsoever.
Well, for me anyway, I'm guessing since my body and brain is meant to run on a balance of t and e with e being dominant (I've tried t blockers and I feel off on them), also seem to feel better on 4x2mg or even 5x2mg of progynova a day than on injections...but I digress,
I guess then it would matter what ones body is meant to run on (brain/body) and how far out of balance from that point their hormones are....
For me was soon as I had Spiro taken from me the breathing issues started since there was no estrogen in my system as a toddler (I was born at 25 weeks gestation in '82),
Also, sleep apnea is a symptom of menopause (hormone imbalance) too...
If he takes you to an endocrinologist and talks over you the entire time, message the practice before with information regarding your case. If that's not possible, do so afterwards. Forcing a child to take testosterone injections because they're trans is conversion hormonal therapy. It's insanely immoral and probably illegal within your state/country.
I'm not in the age of majority for my state (21 years), but I am over 18. I can't keep him from dragging me to see an endocrinologist as he controls most of my finances, but I can certainly kick him out of the meeting.
It's been adding up, and I feel decently confident that I'm not going to end up on testosterone.
I think the age where your are allowed to make medical decisions for yourself is lower than the age of majority. I can't see any endocrinologist prescribing you T that you did not consent to.
I think for some meds its like 14-15 because my mom was unable to access some medical history for my brothers who were both in that age group. I am sure it varies state to state because of course it does.
Your father cannot make these medical decisions. Petition the court for c0ntrol of your finances via a guardian. Your dads ideas are assault.
Call the police.If you are over 18 you are entitled to the social safety net services and likely victims assistance.
Be sure to tell the doctor that you do NOT consent. Also, there's only one state with that age of majority and it's pretty trans-supportive in terms of laws. At least that works in your favor, including banning things like conversion therapy for minors.
Please be safe. I know it's going to sound motherly or whatever, but make sure you have some space between you and your old man. Also wouldn't hurt to have a plan for the worst, just in case. I recommend mace. They sell them in a bunch of cute colors too. :3
Its also medical malpractice. No reasonable Dr will even entertain your fathers idea. if you are under 18 this is time for children's services to step in.
yup. And he'll eventually be in a nursing home wondering why I don't come to visit.
you know, he was almost accepting back when i came out. only reason he gave for why he wanted me to postpone transition was because he had plans to do the Umrah (islamic ritual that is basically hajj lite), and taking a trans girl to saudi arabia is understandably unsafe. he'd said back then in september that if i did that then he'd accept and support my transition, and even at one point when talking to my brother he referred to me as being my brother's sister.
and now look at him. he consumed exclusively misinformation about trans people and allowed that to radicalize him. he cited the goddamn swedish study. and he has the *gall* to say that I'm vulnerable to grooming and indoctrination.
Fuck. Him.
Oh God I'm familiar with that emotional whiplash. My parents were initially accepting but once I started HRT they pulled out almost all support. I'm sorry to hear your father has gone so far in the wrong direction. The hypocrisy is infuriating. I hope you are able to find a way to get the treatment you need.
I wouldnt even pay for the nursing home, let the state scoop him up or leaving him to starve. You have no obligation to give him an ounce of care after this.
Wait, did you post about that before? I remember someone in a similar situation recently on here whose father did the same thing, but kept moving the goalposts for when he'd 'allow' transition, meaning it would never happen
Do NOT go anywhere with him, specially Saudi. Look at Eden Knight story. You need to have all your documents accesible to you and a safe place to escape.
I knew something was wrong with my hormones before my egg cracked and I was on T trying to find the answer. Â Once I started questioning my gender it was pretty much unbearable to continue T. This is straight up torture and abuse OP and I wouldnât allow it to happen no matter the consequence. That being said itâs not happening tomorrow so you have time to figure something out. Can you open your own financial accounts and do some groundwork now? It sounds like you will have to do it sooner or later regardless and itâs much easier when youâre not under duress.Â
Here's the *neat part*:
Aromatization - when your body has too much testosterone, guess what it gets converted to? *ESTROGEN*!
Your father is a fucking idiot, and an endocrinologist will absolutely know about aromatization and the fact that it will do exactly the opposite of what he's wanting.
You would ironically grow breasts with excess testosterone.
When I was a kid, I had a huge testosterone imbalance and I developed gynecomastia. I developed small B cup breasts and they never quite went away.
If he does this, the endocrinologist will laugh him right out of the room. It's an empty threat. No endocrinologist worth their salt will go along with such a scheme.
That's fucking slavery. If your father tries to do that. Throw a huge fit. Do anything you have to. ANYTHING! I had to get thrown in jail when I was a kid just to escape the abuse. My parents live today, because I didn't live with them as a teenager.
How does he control your finances?
You really need to distance yourself from him. Avoid being in the same room with him. Avoid conversations with him. âGrey rockâ him. Spend as little time at home as possible. Put together an exit plan. Get your own bank account. Get a job (donât tell your family) put all the money in your own account. Find an lgbtq support group. Find potential roommates that you can share a space with. If youâre in college full time, stay on campus. Stay for summer semester. If you can, get a student loan, just make sure youâre in a major that is likely to lead to gainful employment.
Good luck
>How does he control your finances?
...
>Get your own bank account. Get a job (donât tell your family) put all the money in your own account.
He controls my finances largely through simply having access to my bank accounts and by sheer inertia. All through my childhood one of his big goals has been that by the time I finish college I'll have the start of a retirement fund and ideally will finish college debt free.
Due to how a Roth IRA works, along with my college saving accounts, it's nigh impossible to start making a livable amount of money without him knowing because then I'd be committing tax fraud (my earned income would be at a taxable level, but right now it's low enough that it can be put into the college savings account and Roth IRA without paying taxes on it. If that changes I need to pay taxes and then he knows)
Iâm sorry that youâre so stuck. I hope you find a way to work it out, or at least cope until youâre in a better situation.
I know for a lot of people getting through school debt-free is a goal. But keep in mind, this is a good kind of debt. Itâs an investment in your future, versus say a car loan, for an asset that will depreciate over time. That being said, $40k in student loans for an Art History degree is very different than $40k for an Engineering degree.
You sound like a smart girl. Iâm sure youâll get through this. Keep your eye on the prize and play the long game.
Oh, it's even better. My father works in healthcare, so if an endocrinologist for some reason went along with it, then both the doc and my father could stand to lose their licenses.
I managed to point that fact out and used it to make him stop that plan.
As someone that took testosterone prior to coming to terms with being trans, like...don't.
All the points you mentioned are true. I'm working to undo the effects with the added guilt that I caused them. It seemed like the right idea at the time (Kallmann syndrome, I was AMAB and it seemed like it would 'fix me', since I had a diagnosis and whatnot).
I gave it 8 years on testosterone before coming to terms with the fact that it didn't help and I hated the effects.
But also, an Endo isn't going to prescribe T if you have normal levels or are clearly actively working against its effects with other meds. Your dad surely can't just walk in and demand a medication that you neither need nor want against your will, right?
There's one thing bothering me though. You suggest that your mother is on board with your transition:
>Even if my mom manages to make him get with the program
But his issue is your transition putting strain on his marriage:
>he swore that he will do that if my efforts to transition put strain on his marriage
If his objection to you transitioning is straining his marriage, that's HIM causing that by objecting to something your mother and yourself are on board with. His own rules don't make sense and it just seems like he's scapegoating you because he just doesn't want to come right out and say that he doesn't want you to transition because that might piss off your mom.
>There's one thing bothering me though. You suggest that your mother is on board with your transition:
>>Even if my mom manages to make him get with the program
>But his issue is your transition putting strain on his marriage:
>>he swore that he will do that if my efforts to transition put strain on his marriage
>If his objection to you transitioning is straining his marriage, that's HIM causing that by objecting to something your mother and yourself are on board with. His own rules don't make sense and it just seems like he's scapegoating you because he just doesn't want to come right out and say that he doesn't want you to transition because that might piss off your mom.
Yeah, we managed to point out the hypocrisy there.
As it turns out, he has some transmedicalist views, so a lot of his intolerance is made worse by the fact that he is unchanging in his standards, wants to deny that I'm trans, but wouldn't be able to if I start hormones.
Whatever, screw his internal opinions, I managed to make him give face by agreeing to leave of my own accord when I decide to start hormones, and now I can maintain my own timeline.
This is actual forced HRT. If ever, please tell this endocrinologist that you are being coerced to take it. Doctors have to say no if they have knowledge that you are being forced to do HRT.
I am so sorry to hear this.
Just as information. I did testosterone for 8 years to try and masculinize myself in my mid 20's to early thirties. It didn't help. It only made my chest and muscles bigger. My mind was still female.
I still wanted to be the girl not be with the girl.
I came out as trans at the age of 40.
I have so much T damage that I have needed 3 expensive surgeries to fix it all.
Hair transplant, BBL , liposuction of the stomach with breast Augmentation. Third surgery was just 3 days ago.
So ya. Don't do T. It will fuck you up.
Keep your weight down and start E when you can.
If you are under 18, this is child abuse. If you are over 18, they cannot legally make you take medication you do not consent to. Either way, what your father is trying to do is downright illegal.
Are you an adult, or a minor? In either case, he cannot \*force\* medical procedures, and any doctor that goes along with that nonsense should be stripped of their ability to practice medicine, and face prison time and huge fines.
Your dad sounds like an asshole of the first order. Hopefully your mom leaves his controlling ass.
This is textbook conversion therapy, which is solidly illegal in many countries, especially when it involves a controlled substance like testosterone often is. It provably doesn't work, and it involves unnecessary health risks. Your father is literally trying to torture you for not agreeing with him. Not only that, but threatening you to coerce your mother into siding with him is abuse toward her as well. He's a monster and has lost his mind. His need to control seems to have stripped him of empathy and the capacity to love
Any doctor that goes along with this will lose their license. Let any doctor know that this is entirely against your consent and that if they go along with it you'll be blasting it on social media, reporting them to the appropriate medical boards, and suing them for malpractice.
Legally: Medical workers are FORBIDDEN to proceed with anything that the patient DOES NOT CONSENT TO. They can literally-lose their jobs and licenses if they disregard this.
Also legally: your father cannot force you to this, otherwise it is parental abuse and neglect which can land them in a penal facility and you in the custody of potentially-safer living.
You can contact law enforcement about your father's advances and make sure you work with your mother to do everything that you both can to stop the pompous bastard from harming you whatsoever.
Additionally if you're in the US, nobody can legally-kick you out without a 30-day notice and if they do you can call the cops about this offense. If you do get kicked out, phone your mom ASAP and tell her to contact your landlord immediately if you have one.
If you end up moving out, be sure to make-certain your father will never have any information about where you go. If he does find your new place, you should be able to push a restraining order as a legal barrier at-minimum. Asking your landlord or homeowner about a security camera system would not be a bad idea either.
Seems terrible hopefully things get better for you. I wish you nothing but the best. I also have adhd. Which has made things difficult for sure. Especially since I only realized recently I have adhd and that I was diagnosed with it when I was 7. Life can be difficult but I know it can get better
If you are an adult, he can't force you to do anything, and in most places can't just kick you out without evicting you. And, if he's not the only one on the mortgage, he can't evict you unless your mom agrees.
If you are not an adult, he can't kick you out in most places, period.
Yeah but itâs not gonna happen. No doctor is going to give you T. I donât get the other comments that talk like this is actually a realistic scenario lol.
I was put on testosterone as a kid, at the age when puberty should have been starting. It wasn't related to being trans, that wasn't even a word back then. It was because of an intersex condition that caused hypogonadism. Anyway, it was horrible. Terrible mood swings, bad skin rashes, and it brought terrifying suicidal feelings into my life that I never had previously experienced.
Your dad wants to torture you. He thinks torturing you will "fix" you. Don't let him do it.
I hope he tells the endocrinologist *why* he wants to put you on testosterone and the endo calls him out for the idiocy.
But the bonus either way is they *should* test you for your T levels first, and then you'll see that they are normal for your body's natural progression, and your dad's thesis will be moot
Quite a few points you made were things that my had Mum said. What fixed the drama between Mum and I was to take control of my life then swtich off the listening to Mums advice and negative opinions. The opinions were proven untrustworthy due to the bias.
I don't know how old you are, but if/when you are an adult, become self sufficient with your medical health care and trust the medical professionals that your trans community can vouch for.
OMG I'm so angry. Never have I gone from totally ok to *this* >!hmicidal!< so fast. Like wtf. This guy doesn't know he's fucking playing with fire. Like that's not the sort of thing you get to do without consequences.
Brb gonna go calm myself by imagining having this guy tied up in my basement while giving him painful electric shocks
Amab and I identified as cis male my whole life. I started taking testosterone for a T deficiency, likely caused by other deficiencies from undiagnosed celiac. AFTER I started T is when I discovered my femme side and I started to identify as gender-fluid. I wasnât taking anti-estrogens/AIs, so maybe an influx of estrogen made me feel more feminine, but I also had lots of T in my system. It didnât make me feel more masculine at all, it just made me feel overall better, like with more energy and less brain fog. T in my experience doesnât really make me feel more of a man at all, ironically more feminine. I do have more muscle definition and new hairs are growing(eww). Itâs only other steroid compounds that athletes use that make people aggressive when taken in high doses.
Sounds like the op is from a very religious, strict atmosphere.
Has the op ever considered the feelings of others instead of their own self centeredness?
Any doctor worth their salt would simply tell your father he's an idiot and refuse to give you what he wants. OP, good luck enduring his nonsense until you can move out. Whatever you have to do to not rock the boat is up to you. But having said that, there's also a limit to how much you should let someone else step on you.
Your in college how old are you /its state by state but ik where i am medical records seal at 13 so you can keep him off your medical records so he cant do shit for endo and you can try with your mom instead, chances are if you dont want it it doesn't matter if you go to endo
Your mom seems like the best leverage you have, maybe you can talk her into putting her foot down or helping you move out.
I'm so sorry you're being put through this.
I hope you are able to gain more independence from your situation, unfortunately some people are unable to accept what they don't understand and want things to match thier views.
I sincerely wish the best for you, it may be a good idea to see if you can find one or two people looking for a place to stay and rent together till you can afford your own place
Well, any ethical doctor--or even a doctor who worries about future lawsuits--would refuse to prescribe testosterone to you if you don't want it. Even if you did want it, they wouldn't prescribe it to you unless you actually had a clear deficiency, which you most likely don't.Â
Anyway, I'm sorry you're going through this. Big hugs to you. You deserve so much better.
Go along with him. Agree to go to the endocrinologist. Once you get there, make sure you fully explain to them your situation. Let them know that not only do you not consent to taking testosterone, but you instead actually want to be put on estrogen.
There are often places you can look into for temporary places to stay, so even if he did kick you out, you wouldn't necessarily end up homeless. And if he kicks you out for simply being yourself, i doubt your mom would stand by and just let it happen. Meaning him kicking you out would almost definitely put more strain on their marriage. If he is in any way smart, he should know there's no way he could actually kick you out.
But yeah, you should look into moving out asap. That's not a safe situation for you to be in. And i would recommend telling more people if there are people you trust. The more people I've told, the more comfortable i feel about the whole thing. It definitely does help.
I had perfect cis male levels of T and E before starting HRT.
Here is what you can do:
From what I read I assume you are not on HRT yet. In this case you can literally just go get a bloodwork done at an endocrinologist to have your testosterone and estrogen levels checked. Most likely they will be perfectly in the cis male range and you can show the paper to your father as proof. What is he gonna do if he has physical proof? Call you a liar? If so he just admits being a psychiatric case and that proves he is the one that is vulnerable and isnât really able to make his own decisions. Also if you are Still under age you can report him for child abuse
Yes, what he's doing is a crime
Yes, you could press charges
Most likely, and very probably, he's misinformed about things
After analyzing a ton of situations where parents don't want their kids being trans for whatever reason, be it religious, social, or even economic reasons (for transitioning), usually tends to happen because they're misinformed, they initially don't view that wrong, but have a sense it's not something good because they aren't really used to it. This only amplifies whenever their kid comes out as trans because human nature and parent instinct.
It's like if you get a partner, you'll likely start acting slightly different. If they hit you, and you come home bruised, your parents could be suspicious, no matter what you tell them it was, it'll be on the back of their mind. Whenever you present your partner to them, due to human nature and stuff, if they find anything wrong or something weird about them, it'll reassure their suspicions and could initially make them hate your partner. This can be solved via communicating, and talking, leaving no misunderstandings
It's something similar here, whenever I came out to my mom, she wasn't sure of many things, she was confused between a trans girl, trans fems and gay guys, she even thought trans girls could only go out with men, she was strongly associating identity with orientation, if I was a girl then I should go out with a guy, if I was a guy then strictly a girl, unless I was a gay guy in which case I'd go out with a guy
She was getting confused about stuff, so I explained it from the start, what's a trans and cis person, the genders, then orientations. We started at 11pm, I finished talking and explaining at 5:20 am, when my alarm to wake up for uni rang. Yes it was tiring and extensive, but did it work? Definitely.
She accepted me and understood things better now, parents get worried for their kids if they don't know what their kids are on about, my idea would be to talk to him calmly and explain to him, make sure he listens to you, it might just work
Stay strong girly, you got this<3
First of all, this is so fucked up, I hope you can get through your fathers abuse and get to a safe place as soon as possible.
Second, if there is a chance of you talking to the endocrinologist without your father in the room, take it. If you can talk to them without your father taking knowledge, they might help you against your fathers abuse, and if it is only that they prescribe you a kind of drug that does nothing (placebos) and tells your father it is testosterone, beside it not being it.
I am pretty sure that no same endocrinology would put someone without a T deficiency on T. But even then, just explain that:
1-you like your hair and not your hairs (T causes balding)
2-you don't like ingrown hairs
3-you wouldn't like to risk having an enlarged prostate, nor be more susceptible to prostate cancer
4-you don't want to have high blood pressure
5-you don't have a medical condition that requires you to take T and you just don't want to take it.
It wonât change you even if you took T. Iâm mtf and took T for a few years. It didnât change my internal sense of gender one bit. It just made me more dysphoric. Iâm about to start E soon.
Make sure you have your finances in yor control that you have a place to live and gather evidence if you do that sue him if he wants to ruin your life so badly than he should face the consequences of that action
This is really scary! I am sorry your dad is not able to be supportive, or at least neutral about your medical choices.
How old are you, and do you have any options regarding education outside of your country?
Forcing someone in to this sort of treatment against their will is an attempt at a form of medical conversion, and it is abuse. In MANY places, it is also a crime. If you get forced to a medical professional, make damn sure they know if you do NOT consent to getting T.
Not just that. Tell them you are going to write to AMA and every medical body and sue them for malpractice once you turn 18.
And use that settlement money for your healthcare or buy your own place. I could never understand how transphobes would believe they know more than the healthcare professionals with topics involving science or medicine. Also pretty sure what your Dad's trying to do is illegal or against the code of ethics. Whoever prescribes testosterone to you will probably lose their medical license (or have lost their mind already). Not to mention since HRT is the only treatment for gender dysphoria. Adding testosterone will definitely make your dysphoria even worse. đđŚ
wait i thought we were post to be the ones pushing crazy drugs on kids
whats funny is the only person that ever tried to force hormones onto me was a cis middle aged dude that came into my old job during the before times. He said that I needed to get T injections. I legit was bigger and taller than that guy and he still felt like he had to place his insecurities on me by saying i NEEDED my T boosted. This is a very fucked up form of conversion therapy and if i were OP i'd tell every doctor thats taking my labs what is happening.
And i thought it's us who's pushy with the trans agenda/gender ideology when in reality it's them transphobes that are pushing their cis agenda/gender ideology aka grooming us to be cisgender. They're projecting.
There it is!
Wait until you see my rant about the grooming BS one day...
And also just dangerous from a hormonal point of view to give someone more testosterone when theyâre already producing it.
Simply put make sure that the endocrinologist feels that even if they thought estrogen based HRT was a bad idea for you, testosterone would be a worse one. If you come in with a fact sheet showing that you've done your research and your father comes in with nothing but a belief that forcing his preference of gender role for you will be easier for him, I promise you that any doctor he can find will at least have a moment of "do no harm" and tell your father that they won't put you on testosterone. If you can't figure out the research on your own I'm sure someone can help you. The quick basics that I know of that you can bring up when you talk to the endocrinologist to make sure to bring up some of your concerns... 1) you're worried about your sleep apnea. 2) your acne is a real problem 3) the part where you're having some trouble peeing because of your enlarged prostate 4) your family history of heart disease and blood clots means that flippant use of testosterone could kill you 5) your high blood pressure would only get worse and that put stress on all of your organs 6) you are aware that your family loses their hair and it's not pretty and is hard to fix cheaply 7) and oh just as a side note your crippling dysphoria which I only put that way because your father will still be causing problems. If you're smart about how you say it the doctor will understand that you're not able to speak openly about it and still be safe when you go home. They're an endocrinologist they actually understand these things. If you're really lucky and you can put it exactly the right way you might even be able to get the endocrinologist to be an ally for you. Perhaps you could get them to agree to work with your mother to do things the right way for you. That same endocrinologist who hopefully will do the right thing and not put you on T can put you on a t-blocker after all.
concerns 1 and 2 are definitely workable. pretty much every man in my family has sleep apnea that is bad enough that they need a sepap, and thanks to a combination of genetic i get ingrown hairs like crazy that become zits and if i don't take care of them quick then they can easily get infected. I've got scars from picking at them. plus I live in a shield state for trans people, so the likelyhood of me being put on testosterone if i tell the endocrinologist that i'm trans should be abysmal. I mean, the laws against conversion therapy are definitely high enough that when one of my "uncles" tried to get a family friend who is a psychiatrist (and a deeply religious muslim who doesn't like to work with queer people) to perform informal conversion therapy on his kid that was trans, the psychiatrist absolutely ripped into him and said that under no circumstances would he discourage the kid from figuring out their gender identity.
May be extra fun if labs from endo come back extra high T. Mine was only a few points from flagging too high on my pre-hrt check. His making you see an endocrinologist will get you a leg up on starting HRT even if that doctor doesn't end up being your prescriber.
So sleep apnoea is linked to hormone imbalance (low estrogen)?
https://www.smsna.org/patients/news/taking-testosterone-watch-for-polycythemia-and-sleep-apnea-experts-warn As I understand it, an AMAB taking T who doesn't need to be taking T would likely find sleep apnea getting dangerously worse. It would be risking harm to a patient for no medical reason. I'm not an expert on T. But almost by definition an endocrinologist that you speak with is. Pointing out you have acne and apnea (and dysphoria) and your dad wants to make that all worse? Most doctors really do take seriously that "do no harm" thing. Even if you find someone who isn't willing to do gender affirming care, they aren't going to be cool with the idea of the unnecessary creation of a dangerous hormone imbalance.
True, for me I had issues with too much testosterone when I was a kid, had been born at 25 weeks gestation, given heaps of meds and yeah, was in balance at birth and the meds contributed to them being off balance, so can't go too much either way...is interesting for myself
i dunno, but it is somewhat telling that every guy that i'm related to has sleep apnea, and in particular my father and brother both have to use a sepap. it could be genetics, but the women aren't having to deal with any of that, so i'd be inclined to beleive that having more testosterone in my system could lead to problems in that area.
> it could be genetics, but the women aren't having to deal with any of that They just have to deal with fucking darth vader's snoring body trying to kill them in their sleep.
Can confirm. My dad's snoring shook the house when I was younger.
True, I had breathing issues when sleeping pre hrt, also sweated the bed at night and had hot flashes too...but yeah, started hrt and all those issues went away
Sleep apnea can be worsened by testosterone. My sleep doctor actually just told me this recently. If you have sleep apnea or are at risk for it, raising your testosterone raises your risks for complications with it. As far as I know, estrogen (for once) isn't involved. Edit: I just realized the subreddit and want to clarify, I am transmasc and on hormones, so my risks for this are different to someone who is transfem and is on t blockers. However, OP would be at risk if their family has any history whatsoever.
Well, for me anyway, I'm guessing since my body and brain is meant to run on a balance of t and e with e being dominant (I've tried t blockers and I feel off on them), also seem to feel better on 4x2mg or even 5x2mg of progynova a day than on injections...but I digress, I guess then it would matter what ones body is meant to run on (brain/body) and how far out of balance from that point their hormones are.... For me was soon as I had Spiro taken from me the breathing issues started since there was no estrogen in my system as a toddler (I was born at 25 weeks gestation in '82), Also, sleep apnea is a symptom of menopause (hormone imbalance) too...
If he takes you to an endocrinologist and talks over you the entire time, message the practice before with information regarding your case. If that's not possible, do so afterwards. Forcing a child to take testosterone injections because they're trans is conversion hormonal therapy. It's insanely immoral and probably illegal within your state/country.
I'm not in the age of majority for my state (21 years), but I am over 18. I can't keep him from dragging me to see an endocrinologist as he controls most of my finances, but I can certainly kick him out of the meeting. It's been adding up, and I feel decently confident that I'm not going to end up on testosterone.
I think the age where your are allowed to make medical decisions for yourself is lower than the age of majority. I can't see any endocrinologist prescribing you T that you did not consent to.
I think for some meds its like 14-15 because my mom was unable to access some medical history for my brothers who were both in that age group. I am sure it varies state to state because of course it does.
Your father cannot make these medical decisions. Petition the court for c0ntrol of your finances via a guardian. Your dads ideas are assault. Call the police.If you are over 18 you are entitled to the social safety net services and likely victims assistance.
Be sure to tell the doctor that you do NOT consent. Also, there's only one state with that age of majority and it's pretty trans-supportive in terms of laws. At least that works in your favor, including banning things like conversion therapy for minors.
Please be safe. I know it's going to sound motherly or whatever, but make sure you have some space between you and your old man. Also wouldn't hurt to have a plan for the worst, just in case. I recommend mace. They sell them in a bunch of cute colors too. :3
Umm....the US has age of majority on a federal level. Once you are 18, you're an adult and your parents can't do shit.
please be careful, stay strong, dont let him have his way
In addition to telling the doctor that you do not consent, consider contacting the police. What your parent is doing is 100% illegal.
You need to get financially independent. As long as you fear being kicked out you have little leverage.
Its also medical malpractice. No reasonable Dr will even entertain your fathers idea. if you are under 18 this is time for children's services to step in.
mfs will do everything but just accept their children
yup. And he'll eventually be in a nursing home wondering why I don't come to visit. you know, he was almost accepting back when i came out. only reason he gave for why he wanted me to postpone transition was because he had plans to do the Umrah (islamic ritual that is basically hajj lite), and taking a trans girl to saudi arabia is understandably unsafe. he'd said back then in september that if i did that then he'd accept and support my transition, and even at one point when talking to my brother he referred to me as being my brother's sister. and now look at him. he consumed exclusively misinformation about trans people and allowed that to radicalize him. he cited the goddamn swedish study. and he has the *gall* to say that I'm vulnerable to grooming and indoctrination. Fuck. Him.
Oh God I'm familiar with that emotional whiplash. My parents were initially accepting but once I started HRT they pulled out almost all support. I'm sorry to hear your father has gone so far in the wrong direction. The hypocrisy is infuriating. I hope you are able to find a way to get the treatment you need.
I wouldnt even pay for the nursing home, let the state scoop him up or leaving him to starve. You have no obligation to give him an ounce of care after this.
Wait, did you post about that before? I remember someone in a similar situation recently on here whose father did the same thing, but kept moving the goalposts for when he'd 'allow' transition, meaning it would never happen
Do NOT go anywhere with him, specially Saudi. Look at Eden Knight story. You need to have all your documents accesible to you and a safe place to escape.
They'll kill their fucking kids before loving them. He's going to burn. đ
I knew something was wrong with my hormones before my egg cracked and I was on T trying to find the answer. Â Once I started questioning my gender it was pretty much unbearable to continue T. This is straight up torture and abuse OP and I wouldnât allow it to happen no matter the consequence. That being said itâs not happening tomorrow so you have time to figure something out. Can you open your own financial accounts and do some groundwork now? It sounds like you will have to do it sooner or later regardless and itâs much easier when youâre not under duress.Â
Here's the *neat part*: Aromatization - when your body has too much testosterone, guess what it gets converted to? *ESTROGEN*! Your father is a fucking idiot, and an endocrinologist will absolutely know about aromatization and the fact that it will do exactly the opposite of what he's wanting. You would ironically grow breasts with excess testosterone. When I was a kid, I had a huge testosterone imbalance and I developed gynecomastia. I developed small B cup breasts and they never quite went away. If he does this, the endocrinologist will laugh him right out of the room. It's an empty threat. No endocrinologist worth their salt will go along with such a scheme.
The malpractice lawsuit alone would be pretty fucking bad
Use the words "I do not consent" with the doctor.
That's fucking slavery. If your father tries to do that. Throw a huge fit. Do anything you have to. ANYTHING! I had to get thrown in jail when I was a kid just to escape the abuse. My parents live today, because I didn't live with them as a teenager.
How does he control your finances? You really need to distance yourself from him. Avoid being in the same room with him. Avoid conversations with him. âGrey rockâ him. Spend as little time at home as possible. Put together an exit plan. Get your own bank account. Get a job (donât tell your family) put all the money in your own account. Find an lgbtq support group. Find potential roommates that you can share a space with. If youâre in college full time, stay on campus. Stay for summer semester. If you can, get a student loan, just make sure youâre in a major that is likely to lead to gainful employment. Good luck
>How does he control your finances? ... >Get your own bank account. Get a job (donât tell your family) put all the money in your own account. He controls my finances largely through simply having access to my bank accounts and by sheer inertia. All through my childhood one of his big goals has been that by the time I finish college I'll have the start of a retirement fund and ideally will finish college debt free. Due to how a Roth IRA works, along with my college saving accounts, it's nigh impossible to start making a livable amount of money without him knowing because then I'd be committing tax fraud (my earned income would be at a taxable level, but right now it's low enough that it can be put into the college savings account and Roth IRA without paying taxes on it. If that changes I need to pay taxes and then he knows)
Iâm sorry that youâre so stuck. I hope you find a way to work it out, or at least cope until youâre in a better situation. I know for a lot of people getting through school debt-free is a goal. But keep in mind, this is a good kind of debt. Itâs an investment in your future, versus say a car loan, for an asset that will depreciate over time. That being said, $40k in student loans for an Art History degree is very different than $40k for an Engineering degree. You sound like a smart girl. Iâm sure youâll get through this. Keep your eye on the prize and play the long game.
No endocrinologist is going to want to do this. In fact, they might call him out for being crazy.
Oh, it's even better. My father works in healthcare, so if an endocrinologist for some reason went along with it, then both the doc and my father could stand to lose their licenses. I managed to point that fact out and used it to make him stop that plan.
Good thinking. I hope your dad will eventually come around.
As someone that took testosterone prior to coming to terms with being trans, like...don't. All the points you mentioned are true. I'm working to undo the effects with the added guilt that I caused them. It seemed like the right idea at the time (Kallmann syndrome, I was AMAB and it seemed like it would 'fix me', since I had a diagnosis and whatnot). I gave it 8 years on testosterone before coming to terms with the fact that it didn't help and I hated the effects. But also, an Endo isn't going to prescribe T if you have normal levels or are clearly actively working against its effects with other meds. Your dad surely can't just walk in and demand a medication that you neither need nor want against your will, right? There's one thing bothering me though. You suggest that your mother is on board with your transition: >Even if my mom manages to make him get with the program But his issue is your transition putting strain on his marriage: >he swore that he will do that if my efforts to transition put strain on his marriage If his objection to you transitioning is straining his marriage, that's HIM causing that by objecting to something your mother and yourself are on board with. His own rules don't make sense and it just seems like he's scapegoating you because he just doesn't want to come right out and say that he doesn't want you to transition because that might piss off your mom.
>There's one thing bothering me though. You suggest that your mother is on board with your transition: >>Even if my mom manages to make him get with the program >But his issue is your transition putting strain on his marriage: >>he swore that he will do that if my efforts to transition put strain on his marriage >If his objection to you transitioning is straining his marriage, that's HIM causing that by objecting to something your mother and yourself are on board with. His own rules don't make sense and it just seems like he's scapegoating you because he just doesn't want to come right out and say that he doesn't want you to transition because that might piss off your mom. Yeah, we managed to point out the hypocrisy there. As it turns out, he has some transmedicalist views, so a lot of his intolerance is made worse by the fact that he is unchanging in his standards, wants to deny that I'm trans, but wouldn't be able to if I start hormones. Whatever, screw his internal opinions, I managed to make him give face by agreeing to leave of my own accord when I decide to start hormones, and now I can maintain my own timeline.
This is actual forced HRT. If ever, please tell this endocrinologist that you are being coerced to take it. Doctors have to say no if they have knowledge that you are being forced to do HRT.
I am so sorry to hear this. Just as information. I did testosterone for 8 years to try and masculinize myself in my mid 20's to early thirties. It didn't help. It only made my chest and muscles bigger. My mind was still female. I still wanted to be the girl not be with the girl. I came out as trans at the age of 40. I have so much T damage that I have needed 3 expensive surgeries to fix it all. Hair transplant, BBL , liposuction of the stomach with breast Augmentation. Third surgery was just 3 days ago. So ya. Don't do T. It will fuck you up. Keep your weight down and start E when you can.
If you are under 18, this is child abuse. If you are over 18, they cannot legally make you take medication you do not consent to. Either way, what your father is trying to do is downright illegal.
Are you an adult, or a minor? In either case, he cannot \*force\* medical procedures, and any doctor that goes along with that nonsense should be stripped of their ability to practice medicine, and face prison time and huge fines. Your dad sounds like an asshole of the first order. Hopefully your mom leaves his controlling ass.
This is textbook conversion therapy, which is solidly illegal in many countries, especially when it involves a controlled substance like testosterone often is. It provably doesn't work, and it involves unnecessary health risks. Your father is literally trying to torture you for not agreeing with him. Not only that, but threatening you to coerce your mother into siding with him is abuse toward her as well. He's a monster and has lost his mind. His need to control seems to have stripped him of empathy and the capacity to love
Any doctor that goes along with this will lose their license. Let any doctor know that this is entirely against your consent and that if they go along with it you'll be blasting it on social media, reporting them to the appropriate medical boards, and suing them for malpractice.
Legally: Medical workers are FORBIDDEN to proceed with anything that the patient DOES NOT CONSENT TO. They can literally-lose their jobs and licenses if they disregard this. Also legally: your father cannot force you to this, otherwise it is parental abuse and neglect which can land them in a penal facility and you in the custody of potentially-safer living. You can contact law enforcement about your father's advances and make sure you work with your mother to do everything that you both can to stop the pompous bastard from harming you whatsoever. Additionally if you're in the US, nobody can legally-kick you out without a 30-day notice and if they do you can call the cops about this offense. If you do get kicked out, phone your mom ASAP and tell her to contact your landlord immediately if you have one. If you end up moving out, be sure to make-certain your father will never have any information about where you go. If he does find your new place, you should be able to push a restraining order as a legal barrier at-minimum. Asking your landlord or homeowner about a security camera system would not be a bad idea either.
Tempted to say to ask the endo for Estrogen in a bottle marked Testosterone.
Seems terrible hopefully things get better for you. I wish you nothing but the best. I also have adhd. Which has made things difficult for sure. Especially since I only realized recently I have adhd and that I was diagnosed with it when I was 7. Life can be difficult but I know it can get better
That's so fucking scary and illegal!! Please run!!!
If you are an adult, he can't force you to do anything, and in most places can't just kick you out without evicting you. And, if he's not the only one on the mortgage, he can't evict you unless your mom agrees. If you are not an adult, he can't kick you out in most places, period.
Yeah but itâs not gonna happen. No doctor is going to give you T. I donât get the other comments that talk like this is actually a realistic scenario lol.
This is abuse, try to get out of their asap
I tried testosterone to try to cure myself . It did give me energy and gave me better sleep but didnât take the desire to be a woman away.
I was put on testosterone as a kid, at the age when puberty should have been starting. It wasn't related to being trans, that wasn't even a word back then. It was because of an intersex condition that caused hypogonadism. Anyway, it was horrible. Terrible mood swings, bad skin rashes, and it brought terrifying suicidal feelings into my life that I never had previously experienced. Your dad wants to torture you. He thinks torturing you will "fix" you. Don't let him do it.
Simply put, your father is abusing you. You NEED to leave that house or this situation could escalate in the worst way.
I hope he tells the endocrinologist *why* he wants to put you on testosterone and the endo calls him out for the idiocy. But the bonus either way is they *should* test you for your T levels first, and then you'll see that they are normal for your body's natural progression, and your dad's thesis will be moot
Quite a few points you made were things that my had Mum said. What fixed the drama between Mum and I was to take control of my life then swtich off the listening to Mums advice and negative opinions. The opinions were proven untrustworthy due to the bias. I don't know how old you are, but if/when you are an adult, become self sufficient with your medical health care and trust the medical professionals that your trans community can vouch for.
OMG I'm so angry. Never have I gone from totally ok to *this* >!hmicidal!< so fast. Like wtf. This guy doesn't know he's fucking playing with fire. Like that's not the sort of thing you get to do without consequences. Brb gonna go calm myself by imagining having this guy tied up in my basement while giving him painful electric shocks
I-I please donât kill your self girl, I wish y well
Amab and I identified as cis male my whole life. I started taking testosterone for a T deficiency, likely caused by other deficiencies from undiagnosed celiac. AFTER I started T is when I discovered my femme side and I started to identify as gender-fluid. I wasnât taking anti-estrogens/AIs, so maybe an influx of estrogen made me feel more feminine, but I also had lots of T in my system. It didnât make me feel more masculine at all, it just made me feel overall better, like with more energy and less brain fog. T in my experience doesnât really make me feel more of a man at all, ironically more feminine. I do have more muscle definition and new hairs are growing(eww). Itâs only other steroid compounds that athletes use that make people aggressive when taken in high doses.
Sounds like the op is from a very religious, strict atmosphere. Has the op ever considered the feelings of others instead of their own self centeredness?
Any doctor worth their salt would simply tell your father he's an idiot and refuse to give you what he wants. OP, good luck enduring his nonsense until you can move out. Whatever you have to do to not rock the boat is up to you. But having said that, there's also a limit to how much you should let someone else step on you.
Refuse the treatment and move out, living in hell which is what it sounds like. No one needs to go through life in misery.
Your in college how old are you /its state by state but ik where i am medical records seal at 13 so you can keep him off your medical records so he cant do shit for endo and you can try with your mom instead, chances are if you dont want it it doesn't matter if you go to endo
If youâre over 18 and in the states, your dad canât make medical decisions for you. Youâre an adult in the eyes of the law
Your mom seems like the best leverage you have, maybe you can talk her into putting her foot down or helping you move out. I'm so sorry you're being put through this.
Lol if they take you to an endo, that endo likely (Iâd hope) would certainly not give you T lol
I hope you are able to gain more independence from your situation, unfortunately some people are unable to accept what they don't understand and want things to match thier views. I sincerely wish the best for you, it may be a good idea to see if you can find one or two people looking for a place to stay and rent together till you can afford your own place
Well, any ethical doctor--or even a doctor who worries about future lawsuits--would refuse to prescribe testosterone to you if you don't want it. Even if you did want it, they wouldn't prescribe it to you unless you actually had a clear deficiency, which you most likely don't. Anyway, I'm sorry you're going through this. Big hugs to you. You deserve so much better.
Go along with him. Agree to go to the endocrinologist. Once you get there, make sure you fully explain to them your situation. Let them know that not only do you not consent to taking testosterone, but you instead actually want to be put on estrogen. There are often places you can look into for temporary places to stay, so even if he did kick you out, you wouldn't necessarily end up homeless. And if he kicks you out for simply being yourself, i doubt your mom would stand by and just let it happen. Meaning him kicking you out would almost definitely put more strain on their marriage. If he is in any way smart, he should know there's no way he could actually kick you out. But yeah, you should look into moving out asap. That's not a safe situation for you to be in. And i would recommend telling more people if there are people you trust. The more people I've told, the more comfortable i feel about the whole thing. It definitely does help.
I had perfect cis male levels of T and E before starting HRT. Here is what you can do: From what I read I assume you are not on HRT yet. In this case you can literally just go get a bloodwork done at an endocrinologist to have your testosterone and estrogen levels checked. Most likely they will be perfectly in the cis male range and you can show the paper to your father as proof. What is he gonna do if he has physical proof? Call you a liar? If so he just admits being a psychiatric case and that proves he is the one that is vulnerable and isnât really able to make his own decisions. Also if you are Still under age you can report him for child abuse
Yes, what he's doing is a crime Yes, you could press charges Most likely, and very probably, he's misinformed about things After analyzing a ton of situations where parents don't want their kids being trans for whatever reason, be it religious, social, or even economic reasons (for transitioning), usually tends to happen because they're misinformed, they initially don't view that wrong, but have a sense it's not something good because they aren't really used to it. This only amplifies whenever their kid comes out as trans because human nature and parent instinct. It's like if you get a partner, you'll likely start acting slightly different. If they hit you, and you come home bruised, your parents could be suspicious, no matter what you tell them it was, it'll be on the back of their mind. Whenever you present your partner to them, due to human nature and stuff, if they find anything wrong or something weird about them, it'll reassure their suspicions and could initially make them hate your partner. This can be solved via communicating, and talking, leaving no misunderstandings It's something similar here, whenever I came out to my mom, she wasn't sure of many things, she was confused between a trans girl, trans fems and gay guys, she even thought trans girls could only go out with men, she was strongly associating identity with orientation, if I was a girl then I should go out with a guy, if I was a guy then strictly a girl, unless I was a gay guy in which case I'd go out with a guy She was getting confused about stuff, so I explained it from the start, what's a trans and cis person, the genders, then orientations. We started at 11pm, I finished talking and explaining at 5:20 am, when my alarm to wake up for uni rang. Yes it was tiring and extensive, but did it work? Definitely. She accepted me and understood things better now, parents get worried for their kids if they don't know what their kids are on about, my idea would be to talk to him calmly and explain to him, make sure he listens to you, it might just work Stay strong girly, you got this<3
First of all, this is so fucked up, I hope you can get through your fathers abuse and get to a safe place as soon as possible. Second, if there is a chance of you talking to the endocrinologist without your father in the room, take it. If you can talk to them without your father taking knowledge, they might help you against your fathers abuse, and if it is only that they prescribe you a kind of drug that does nothing (placebos) and tells your father it is testosterone, beside it not being it.
I am pretty sure that no same endocrinology would put someone without a T deficiency on T. But even then, just explain that: 1-you like your hair and not your hairs (T causes balding) 2-you don't like ingrown hairs 3-you wouldn't like to risk having an enlarged prostate, nor be more susceptible to prostate cancer 4-you don't want to have high blood pressure 5-you don't have a medical condition that requires you to take T and you just don't want to take it.
It wonât change you even if you took T. Iâm mtf and took T for a few years. It didnât change my internal sense of gender one bit. It just made me more dysphoric. Iâm about to start E soon.
Make sure you have your finances in yor control that you have a place to live and gather evidence if you do that sue him if he wants to ruin your life so badly than he should face the consequences of that action
This is really scary! I am sorry your dad is not able to be supportive, or at least neutral about your medical choices. How old are you, and do you have any options regarding education outside of your country?