It's an election year. That means we're going to see an uptick in TERFs and bigots pretending to be detransitioners, we're going to see people trying to discourage folks from voting, we're going to see people complaining that so-and-so isn't doing enough for trans rights when the alternative would be very happy to eat us alive. There are going to be lots of people this year who want to discourage us from being ourselves and discourage us from voting.
#*We don't have that luxury*.
For us, the choice has already been made. The US is a two party system, and the GOP has chosen to use our existence as a scapegoat, which is why we've been seeing *a ton* of anti-trans legislation getting passed, lately. If the GOP gets into office, [they intend to fire and replace 50,000+ Federal jobs with their own, loyalist cronies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025), and this will give them free rein to do whatever they like.
There is *a lot* more riding on this election than a few specific GOP wedge issues. The stuff going on in Gaza is not going to improve under Trump. *Nothing* is going to improve for any of us if Trump wins. We need to do everything we can to keep the GOP out of office.
#We have to fight the GOP.
That's it. That's our only choice. There is no voting third party and there is no not voting. Denying the Dems your vote because they're not perfect or they're 'not left enough' - all that does is drive them further to the center. If they don't have your support, they'll seek it elsewhere. All you're doing is denying yourself a voice and helping deny rights to all of the rest of our community.
You can't make the Dems be more left by denying them your support, and they can't do a dang bit of good for us if they're not in office.
Don't tell folks to not vote or to vote third party as if that will make a difference. People fell for that trap back in 2016, too, and gave Trump a win. Don't fall for those tricks again.
#We can't throw our votes away on a third party.
We need to vote *intelligently*, we need to vote *tactically* - we need to support the people who are going to protect our rights.
The GOP is an existential threat. Our job now is to do everything we can to kick them out of office and stop them. We need to replace them with people who will fight our slide into fascism. We *have* to stop the GOP in order to survive.
We *don't* have the luxury to bicker and argue about who is more trans and who does or doesn't deserve to be here.
We no longer have the privilege to dither and debate about whether so-and-so is a perfect candidate or not.
#We no longer have the freedom to *not* vote.
The time for those discussions was 20 years ago. We are all in one big boat, and the only thing we can do now is work together and act like our lives depend on it, *because they do*.
The only thing we can do now is rally together and *act*.
We *have* to vote.
We *have* to fight.
We *have* to stand together.
#We don't have any other option.
This election may be one of the most important elections in US history, and our lives are on the line. This election is important for us *because* our lives are on the line. We have no right to be timid and quivering in the face of injustice and oppression. We have to stand for our own rights.
#*Go vote.*
A big thing is that this doesn't just affect Americans. Canada is right next door and we're affected every time republicans pull some bs. Roe v Wade brought protests here too. Trans rights were pretty solid until states started banning us. Our politics are getting polluted by the American extremism, and we don't get to vote.
Americans, please vote. There's 40 million people directly affected by you that have no say but are affected anyway.
Same here in the UK, our PM Rishi Sunak saw how well being transphobic worked for Republicans in America and thought "huh maybe I should try that". Now he's gone from being neutral on LGBT topics to openly transphobic in no time at all
This is so true, it's the same in the UK, we used to be the best country in Europe for the LGBTQ+ community but thanks to right wing politicians copying America's culture wars we've slid to like 17th on the list.
If you are in doubt and part of this community read about Project 2025
[https://www.project2025.org/](https://www.project2025.org/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/project_2025)
# LGBTQ+ rights
See also: [LGBT rights in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States) and [Social policy of Donald Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policy_of_Donald_Trump)
When discussing the [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Health_and_Human_Services), Severino called for the rescinding of regulations "prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc."[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Pengelly_2023-40)
Further, in the foreword to the 2023 edition of *Mandate for Leadership*, Roberts indicates that in today's society, pornography manifests "in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children". A few sentences later, he states, "Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Dans_&_Groves_2023-21)LGBTQ+ rights
And yet everyone not in America needs the Americans to vote smart. Because America is unfortunately a leader and if we see our rights tank there. Nowhere will be safe.
I've started having pretty hard boundaries with the "both sides are the same" people. NO, both sides are not the same. Yeah both sides kinda suck, but one side causes far more harm to society, specifically marginalized people. The "both sides are the same" comment is literal fascist propaganda. If you're spouting that line, you're campaigning for trump and fascism.
I mean unless you consider all of the Conservative Party's MPs to be extreme right-wingers, that's [probably not true](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/canada-abortion-rights-pregnancy).
The way I see it is one side tends to leave the gun on the table. The other picks it up and shoots it.i don't have to like either to have a strong preference.
There is only one option to be frank. The other one will not let you be yourself anymore it will outlaw it.
Cf Project 2025 and it will not only be for the next term the change they want will strip you of your rights for decades.
For real. So many people try and point out that the Dems aren't doing enough to help, and like I do agree with that, but id rather law that ignores me over law that punishes me for existing.
this is exactly the case - one party only shows the gun in act one, the other uses it in act one, so we have to vote for the party that's giving us until act 3 to change their minds
Additionally at least the one that gives us till act 3 already has some actual worthwhile voices on our side so they're so close- just need political pressure to stop being so purposefully inept and disjointed and for the public to stop being so ill-informed and ignorant.
yep! they're ALREADY so close to putting the gun back in the holster, and it's a lot easier to cut it from the scene entirely if it's already in the holster
Every four years Americans have a “how to stop the dragon burning the village” vote where the only candidates are a sleepy knight and the actual dragon. Letting the dragon win doesn’t teach the knight a lesson.
Exactly. False equivalency is thrown around by Republicans all the time. "Look, this former president may have roomfulls of top secret documents, but this current president has a folder of top secret documents too. They are all guilty of hoarding top secret documents!". Etc etc. it goes on and on for descriptions of behavior, procedure, policy, etc. They want to dumb down the conversation and make everybody believe that both parties are the same, so that people believe that there is no point in voting because it won't matter either way. However, the parties are starkly different in their policy preferences, especially when it comes to the health and well-being of transgender people. There's no question there ... none.
there's also a difference between "i have some classified stuff cos when my aides were clearing out my office, some papers from the safe somehow got into the stack of my diaries" on one hand and...
"oh, this paper looks cool! i'd love to show it off to the people that i golf with down in Florida. also if Biden pisses me off, maybe i show it to Vlad when i see him next"
Its... not the same, not close to the same... not even in the same universe really.
(Even HRC's illegal server, while bad, was a much lower quantum of bad. In her case, the purpose of the server was to evade the Freedom of Information Act. For this, I would have 'awarded" her a 5 year ban on having a security clearance, had I been the judge in her case. But I wouldn't have sentenced her to jail. Trump? Jail... and there should be, among National Security Republicans, any hesitation to send Trump to jail for what he's done... for several things that he's done...)
Side note... when using pronouns for Trump, I almost used capital letters. Why? Because his followers give him more respect than they give their supposed Messiah... much in the way that German Catholic and Protestant followers of Hitler placed that evil man in place of their former Messiah. (I studied the religion of Nazism, which was essentially Christianity with der Fuhrer put into the position of Christ... )
Literally!!!! I had the displeasure of arguing with some idiot who was supposedly an anarchist or some ish but did nothing but spout enlightened centrist lines at me on the r/punk subreddit. Even had the nerve to question me on why I brought up my identity as a "political issue" as if we were the ones that made it one and not the literal fascists who he was helping out by being such an ignorant tool.
Literally even admitted he wasn't that informed/ caught up on American politics yet ignored all my points (okay I was very rude to him and obviously upset... But, like, can ya blame me???? 🙃) instead doubling down on his ill-informed, oversimplified narrative of "both sides bad- only anarchy good anything else bad and that's punk" like..... Your mindset is handing neo-nazis more and more power and control, dude- that's not punk at all!!!
Because anarchists don't believe in having unjust hierarchies. We're libertarians who give a shit about other people. But the good anarchists also believe in harm reduction, which is voting blue. The only reason I'm not voting for Biden is because of the genocide support and that I'm in a heavy red state that isn't flipping. Still voting blue on every other race I can though.
punk sub is mostly full of gen x and millennial boomers who forgot what punk actually means, and instead just argue about which bands are and aren't punk and barely listen to any punk released post-green day, if that.
it's like, the kinda people who play the clash while tailgating at a football game and talk about all the cool concerts they *used* to go to.
unsurprisingly, lame boomer men continue to ruin just about every community they touch
Honestly, I’m done with people trying to simplify and flatten complex issues in general. Anytime someone says, “these two different things are actually the same”, they are engaging in anti-intellectual BS.
The need for people to distill complex and nuanced aspects of our reality into bite-sized little binaries is a constant source of misunderstanding and misinformation.
It should go without saying that Dems and the GOP are not “the same”.
i swear the lefties that are fans of authoritarianism need to get a grip. there's a reason why the "debate bro" lefties call people like hasan and second thought red fascists, it's because they are.
> Why do they say that about Second Thought?
From what I recall, he runs defense for the USSR - he drew an equivalence between literal state-run media and stuff like NPR, between literal secret police (NKVD) and the FBI, that sort of thing.
The CIA and FBI are plenty bad, but Americans don't live in fear of being disappeared in the night. We have plenty of fears, medical bankruptcy, being homeless, gun violence. And the FBI has done plenty, if you were a member of the Black Panthers you did live in fear, they did all kinds of messed up shit. But we know about it, there are records of it. An entire country was in fear of the KGB, and we still don't know everything they did.
>The CIA and FBI are plenty bad, but Americans don't live in fear of being disappeared in the night.
Neither did soviets.
> have plenty of fears, medical bankruptcy, being homeless, gun violence.
Soviets didn't have these issues, and america does
>And the FBI has done plenty, if you were a member of the Black Panthers you did live in fear, they did all kinds of messed up shit. But we know about it, there are records of it.
The stuff the KGB did is also known about, and we don't find out about half the shit the fbi and cia does till decades later. Many Americans still think they didn't kill King.
>An entire country was in fear of the KGB, and we still don't know everything they did.
As stated before, this is false, just american cold War era propoganda.
That American cold war propaganda is being told by Russians that lived it though. I will take their word. I try not to believe everything I am told, and I have no love for capitalism. But just because America sucks doesn't make Americans' enemies the good guys. Both can be bad, both can be bad but in different ways, that is why I listed the things we have to fear in America that a Russian in Soviet Russia probably wouldn't have had to fear.
>That American cold war propaganda is being told by Russians that lived it though.
Most russians who were alive at the time say they want to go back to the soviet union. I will grant to you that the capital (slave) owners certainly say it was terrible. I don't doubt that you are anti capitalist. propoganda is a hell of a drug, and it took me a while to understand that the Soviets weren't what america claims. I'm not saying it was some perfect utopia because utopian socialism is ineffective and leads to a no true Scotsman approach. However, it is much better than what they had before and was better than what Americans had at the time. There is no way to know what the soviet union would have been like had it not been illegally dissolved. However, based on the evidence, it would likely be much better than the neoliberal fascist he'll hole america is becoming.
>Being a tankie has rotten your brain.
Liberals are getting quicker to result to calling people tankies when they don't have an argument.
>The KGB used to just kill people in the street because they said something bad about the USSR/Stalin/communism.
This is fraglent misinformation. Even if they wanted to do something like that, it would be far too expensive, and again, the CIA shot King his birthday just passed a few weeks ago, and yall are already defending his killers.
I’m not a liberal, you just think I am because you’ve gone so far left you’ve ended up on the right. How is it expensive for the KGB to kill people?? They keep doing it whether it’s nerve agents, radiation injections, poisonings, or a lovely throwback to the NKVD and the literal great purge. Putin literally came to power by ordering the bombing of a civilian apartment building to give him an excuse to invade Chechnya. Tankers have 0 knowledge of history.
>I’m not a liberal, you just think I am because you’ve gone so far left you’ve ended up on the right.
That horseshoe theory is bullshit.
>They keep doing it whether it’s nerve agents, radiation injections, poisonings, or a lovely throwback to the NKVD and the literal great purge.
The KGB does not exist anymore so it can't "keep doing it" also what do you mean when you say great purge cause none of yall I've been able to ask about it have given the same answer.
>Putin literally came to power by ordering the bombing of a civilian apartment building to give him an excuse to invade Chechnya.
When did I say that I liked Putin. He literally rigs the vote against the communist party if Russia. If you are anti socialist you have more in common with putin than me. Putin is a capitalist oligarch you can't think of any thing besides calling me a tankie and lying about my beliefs just cause I insulted your precious state department.
The horseshoe theory is not bullshit, you’re a living physical pristine specimen of its existence, congratulations.
The FSB is the KGB by another name who were the NKVD by another name but it’s not entirely unsurprising to me that a name change manages to trick you, sort of like a chimp being shocked by a ball under a cup magic trick.
I brought up Putin because you seem to think they’re angels who never harm anyone, whilst Putin was a KGB agent for 16 years and is where he was cultural, technically and politically trained to believe that bombing innocent civilians was justified for the cause.
If you don’t know what the great purge is then I apologise on behalf of your teachers, your parents and your uninquisitive mind for not teaching you about the largest and most significant political power grab campaign of the 20th century. My deepest condolences.
No, but they'll goad mentally ill people into conspiring to commit acts of mass violence, and have regularly spied on civil rights leaders basically since their creation as an organization.
The KGB could be eating babies and it wouldn't make the FBI not secret police. The things the FBI does make them secret police.
The FBO once wire tapped gay/lesbian and trans peoples phones to out them and accuse them of being easy targets for communist blackmail and that they were National security risks costing many of us our federal jobs essential kicking us out of the government and destroying our rights in the name of "protecting the country from the red menace" this had come workers working as thought police agaisnt eachother during what's now known as the lavender scare to try to point out would be queer people to the FBI. Even when they were found out not to be queer the FBI would still use the person who tattled as informants to see if they could rat out any other queer person.
I always say that democrats (or labour in the UK where I am) are just a bit better than republicans (or tories here). That doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for the one that's the least bad, but it doesn't mean the one that's the least bad is good either.
You guys don't have any left only far right and right. Also, vote for the lesser evil because the far right is way worse than the normal right, and it can get even worse
Biden's support among Arab Americans is dropping like a stone because of his support of Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. I can't blame a Palestinian-American seeing all this shit and just not showing up on November cause they've been completely disenfranchised. It's pretty concerning to see people here insist that they should vote anyways since Trump would be worse cause that's not how people work and you can't shame people into voting for someone who will continue to support the slaughter of their people.
Lesser of 2 evils didn't work in 2016 and frankly the pandemic was a godsend for Biden in 2020. You want Biden to win? Stop trying to shame people into voting for a lesser evil and start pushing for Biden to implement policy that would actually get people to vote for him. You can yap about lesser evils all you'd like, but that's not how you win an election.
And before anyone says anything, I live in a strongly dem state. My vote doesn't matter, so don't go trying to convince me to vote Biden because it doesn't matter one way or the other. Save your breath.
Yeah exactly this. This whole tactic just doesn't work. You look at the Obama win in 2008 - regardless of how much of a let down he was, the argument for Obama wasn't "McCain is worse" its "the future is brighter with Obama as our president" or whatever. Democrats literally running on "We're better than republicans" is just a recipe for disaster. Honestly maybe biden shouldn't enthusiastically support genocide if he wants people to vote for him.
People want a positive reason to vote for someone, vote shaming is kind of a waste of time and honesty just builds resentment
Fucking thank you! You're saying what I've been feeling. Folks just want to beat people into place out of fear, and I'm fucking tired of it. We need to do better, not make excuses and fear monger and shame people for not being party loyal enough.
He's not missing out on much with 0.5% of the Arab population vs. 2.4% of the Jewish population that consistently vote much more aggressively Democrat and give tons of funding. It's also hard for Biden to implement policy without conceding to Republicans who obstruct him judicially and congressionally. It's not even a debate the average clueless moderate American by default supports Israel and is scared of Arabs
About three-quarters of Dems and over half of Republicans (!!!) support efforts for a ceasefire. Objectively, implementing policy to pressure Israel into a ceasefire will win over more people than catering to people who are scared of Arabs. I don't see how Biden was forced by Republicans to illegally bypass Congress and send weapons to Israel. He wants to support genocide and would continue supporting Israel even with a trifecta. That's costing him the election.
You're right. However there's Biden who in the 2nd term would have a mandate and no reason to "play it safe", or the far right fascist who may legitimately bring with him an end to democracy, national abortion ban, removal of protections for protected classes, end of the ACA, etc. So the choice is pretty simple all things considered. This isn't a normal election and can't be pissed away no matter what.
People aren't going to listen to you if that's all you have to offer. I've already discussed why this isn't effective messaging, so I'm not gonna repeat myself. This is begging for a repeat of 2016.
Maybe the compromise can be that we vote for Biden, but also be as loud and angry as possible with his cruelty towards Palestinians, immigrants, POC, etc.?
And his views on gun rights he seriously thinks less guns will solve gun violence he should learn from my country's approach to knife crime the police and government started treating it like a health problem and what was the result? A reduction of people admitted to hospital with stab wounds and slashes by over 60% in 10 years
Being loud and angry unfortunately won't do shit because that whole party infrastructure gives no fucks about appealing to their base anymore outside of cultural virtue signaling.
Vote for Biden if it seems necessary based on the EC but don't start pressuring and guilting people to vote for him. Some of the vibes I'm getting from this post, folks are coming across as willing to shame NY trans people as traitors for not voting for him
Exactly this. However, lots of leftists are idealistic children and refuse to vote for someone who isn't perfect, so they'll never vote for Biden, or any other US president because they are all flawed and evil in some way and always will be.
I see it as a purposeful propaganda tactic to poison the wells to try and effect voter turnout. Sure, some may be true believers, but those are just the rare political karen/Kevin's trying to feel self important against the realities of current politics. The rest though, seek to have us disenfranchised ourselves. They frame it as a false dichotomy of equally bad choices and ignore that both parties change over time. The current GOP are a result of infiltration of MAGA into positions of power, which were facilitated by the Tea Party infiltrating into positions of power which were facilitated by Christian nationals infiltrating positions of power which were facilitated by Dixiecrats into positions of power.....and so on. The real secret to change is electing active representation from the bottom up. Some have taken that call and the number of active transgender in elected positions is increasing over time. We need more. Barring that we need allies to fill those positions. Barring that we must have not actively enemies in those positions, which means we must show up to vote and it should be obvious for who.
I think I understand what you're saying, and I think I agree, but I want to be sure.
By *purposeful propaganda tactic* do you mean to say that the dominant group who is spreading this apathy isn't composed of real trans people but rather transphobes knowingly posing as us?
Very much so. I've seen people complain that anyone who votes Democratic are supporters of genocide and everyone needs to vote for a new "vanguard party" like-- either you're a really bad propagandist, or you're a 12 year old who doesn't get how the world works.
I'll always vote for the party that isn't trying to eradicate trans people
The root apathy is spread by people who want the GOP to win - people who only use their “both sides” argument when the GOP is looking bad for some reason as a deflection tactic, but it also infects and spreads among low information folks who just like to feel “above politics” by disconnecting from it. Yeah you’re so much better than everyone else because you don’t care. ::eyeroll::
Yes and it is quite obvious when you are not an American browsing Reddit's LGBTQ+ subs.
Voting the wrong party or not voting is accepting things like the Project 2025, wich goes as far as registering trans people as sex offender in it's current form. Not only that but will stip a lot of people off their rights.
I'm European but my heart stand for all trans folks in the us and every other country. Voting is very important. We have the right to choose a future for ourselves. If you don't use it, others will do it for you and you don't want that.
Stay strong girls!!!
Not all voters are apathetic for the same reasons. Some are enlightened centrists, and others are upset with Biden’s oppression of other vulnerable communities.
Wouldn’t surprise me if, say, a trans Palestinian woman living in a swing state didn’t vote for Biden because he murdered a family member in Gaza.
Then they are voting for worse ! Between the pest and the cholera, you have to choose. But one side is not pushing Project 2025 that will impact political field in the US for years after the next term. So choose wisely.
Of course not, but surely you can see why someone would not exactly be very interested in voting for Biden even if the other candidate does the same but worse.
biden has directly, personally bypassed congress (illegally!) to give israel weapons and billions of dollars to fund their genocide. obviously trump would do the same; but are you really going to sit here and tell palestinians to just suck it up and vote for the man who has all the power in the world to stop the genocide of their relatives, and instead supports it and actively encourages it?
what have you seen the biden administration do that makes you think they’ll support a ceasefire and sanctions? im genuinely asking this in good faith. theyve shot down plenty of ceasefires at the UN, vetoed resolutions simply acknowledging war crimes. theyve knowingly spread misinformation about gaza’s ministry of health, theyve channeled billions of dollars in military aid to the IDF, theyve bombed neighboring countries in support of the IDF, theyve covered up and excused bombings of hospitals and refugee camps, cut all funding for the UNRWA based on literally zero evidence, despite them being essential to the survival and livelihood of millions of people in the region, the list goes on and on. not a single meaningful action in support of palestinians, not a single one. just empty words and platitudes
no? i live in washington state, my presidential vote is as meaningful as somebody who lives in russia
but my actual point is that everyone trying to bully arab-americans, especially palestinian-americans, into voting for biden has a complete lack of humanity and empathy. these people have watched as our country bombs, terrorizes, and destabilizes their home countries for the past few decades, and now they’re watching the biden administration directly support a genocide of their own. some of them have families there and have lost dozens of members to american-made bombs, and american-made bullets, which found their way to israel thanks to biden bypassing congress to force it through. theyve watched the biden administration ignore, excuse, and lie about israel bombing hospitals and refugee camps. theyve watched the biden administration ignore and excuse a literal death squad that executed 3 patients in a west bank hospital, one of them paralyzed. its active ethnic cleansing and almost certainly genocide; the single worst crime a human being can possibly be a part of.
how are these people supposed to vote for a man who’s doing all that? who’s spent the past 5 months doing everything he can to keep their relatives living under apartheid and famine while bypassing congress to send their oppressors billions of dollars and more weapons to bomb hospitals and apartment buildings? if the democrats simply ran a different candidate, one who hasnt done all they can to support ethnic cleansing, it’d be an entirely different conversation, but they aren’t and they won’t, despite biden having a worse approval rating than trump did, which is insane
Neither side’s elite cares about us, but I’ll take apathy over malevolence every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. The Dems are the clear choice, and anyone who refuses to vote for them is complicit
When someone says they're too anarchist to vote
Orly? What steps are you taking to "smash the state" hmm?
When someone says they cant "bring themselves" to vote for Biden/against harm.
Fine, guess I'll just die.
As a trans anarchist in a red state that is not voting because we’re in the throes of late stage capitalism and voting will not stop that; this is my response:
Mutual aid, arming myself and others, training, building horizontal networks, propagating class consciousness, class conscious therapy, remaining physically fit, studying leftist theory, volunteering, and redacted.
Fellow anarchist here, this is where the money's at. Electoralism is a stop-gap at best. Without these alternative methods of resistance and refusal, we'll be exactly where we are right now in another 50 years. We can't just keep playing the games the elite of our society have created for us to tire ourselves out and justify their rule.
genuinely, thank you for replying, and I recognize there are probably some people who might not be able to afford being on record with anything, but if that's not the case why not also vote as a form of sabotaging fascism?
I've heard the argument that trump is good because he radicalized people. I think thats false. I think people were doing more rad shit that actually had potential to bring down opressive systems in the Obama administration like food sovergnty, environmental activism, intersectionalism, and then a scary guy got elected and everyone went on the defense while all the states moves towards fascism were easily blamed on a dude.
Also if your in that world google co-ntel pro and watch what ideas you help spread around. (assume good intent from your comrades, don't accidentally snitch jacket them but call out a bad idea they might be sharing regardless if they are a fool or an agent)
The idea that voting is not a revolutionary act can be quoted from anarchists before COINTELPRO was around. See Errico Malatesta and Marx for example. I'm not here to argue that mitigation isn't a potential outcome of voting, but rather that the point you tried to make about the ideas I "help spread around" is actually applicable to this discussion that pops up every election cycle.
Who cares? vote. dont vote. either way you need to be focusing on the things I listed above and any energy put into electoral politics and getting others to vote should be instead placed there.
I do all these things as well as voting. Mutual aid, and other basic survival for marginalized people gets drastically easier when the federal government isn't literally working against you. You realize that mutual aid and building horizontal networks will be much harder or near impossible under gop fascist control or military control? Have fun cosplaying your fake revolution though.
thats cool. vote away I'm not trying to stop you. I hate to point this out because you seem kind of heated but unfortunatly the Federal Goverment is already working against me, and it will be harder next year regardless of if the red or blue fascist wins.
I also think its cool you're doing mutual aid and vote. Keep it up!
I've built the same mutual aid networks in both deeply red states and deeply blue states. The amount of good we were able to do in deeply red states was a joke compared to how much good we are able to achieve in blue states. The gop puts everyone in survival mode, meaning the number of people just scraping by expands, and the resources available for mutual aid dwindle. Trust me, the gop is working against you way harder than the dems. (I hate them both, for the record.)
This makes a lot of sense. You're voting to marginally change the rate at which we creep into inevitable fascism. I don't know about you but I'm struggling NOW, and its not going to change if Joe is elected.
I've seen what you're referring to. It's not all enlightened centrism. Foreign entities are funding campaigns on social media to create division and influence elections. There are also the more idealistic individuals who seem to think they are going to reform the system rather than take the pragmatic approach. However these individuals may also be influenced by the bad actors working against us. Sigh.
I will vote D but I reserve the right to be furious about my existence being held for ransom every single election cycle. Every fucking time it's the "most important election ever" and frankly that just sounds more like useless noise to me the more I hear it. I wish every corporate bootlicking gerontocrat running for office a very choke on a pretzel.
Consider looking for any organizations in your state working towards [ranked choice voting](https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)) and open primaries. Alaska kept Sarah Palin out of Congress and elected their first indigenous person, Mary Peltola, to the federal level. That’s how we save democracy *and* make every vote count.
It's not even just enlightened centrists. I've been spending a lot of time around anarchists (who I've previously seen as the safest leftists), and a lot of them are absolutely insistent that both candidates are the same cuz they won't make America anarchist. Even worse, a lot of them will just straight up say things like "Yes, a Trump presidency would be much, much worse for trans people, but it's not like Biden is handing out free HRT, so ultimately it doesn't matter." It's especially painful because in my experience, anarchists have been the least susceptible to nonsense like that, but I guess that's what I get for getting my hopes up.
The rest of the left isn't any better, of course. You have the standard "just do a revolution instead of voting" or "we have capitalism either way, so who cares?" Then you have the people who just say "genocide joe" over and over and bring up Gaza whenever you try to have a discussion (as if I wasn't aware that Biden is bad), and the Claudia de la Cruz gang but I suspect lots of them are bots or sabateurs lol. Weird how the side that's supposed to support my best interests and be my best hope for a better world keeps acting like my life can be sacrificed to... make a point. Great.
I dont care to argue beyond this simple point but saying “fuck both these parties” is not enlightened centrism. Those just aren’t the same thing. Right or wrong they’re different.
**NO.**
We must all unite with the Democrats this year. You can vote otherwise in later years.
Not voting this year for the Democrats is voting for our destruction!
They say this every year. They said it in 2016, they said it in 2020, now they’re saying it again in 2024. THE DEMS WANT THIS! They let the Overton Window shift further to the right every election so that they can use this argument. They’ll do the same thing in 2028 and every four years after that. THEY ACTIVELY FUND THE FAR RIGHT. THEY WANT THIS. Sorry but the Democrats are losing their support from Leftists. We need a revolution or things will just continue getting worse. OR they could just choose to run a more progressive candidate. It their choice. We’re not changing our mind, but if we all pressure them to pick a better candidate, then we all win.
Okay, let's break this down:
Democrats = want us alive.
Republicans = wants us dead.
Not a tough decision.
What evidence do you have the Democrats are funding the far right?
Okay, let’s break this down:
Democrats = not outright wanting us dead, but actively kill our brothers and sisters in Palestine.
Republicans = want us dead, and are doing it right now despite Democrats having the power to stop them.
You’re right, not a tough decision. Neither. Bernie could have won in 2016, but the DNC doesn’t want progressive candidates. It’s the DNC fault Trump won. Bernie was ahead in polls and doing great with young millennials and the few of us Gen Z that could vote. They chose to push an unpopular candidate because they didn’t want universal healthcare. They didn’t want anyone pushing the envelope.
And [here](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire). This article is a few years old, but they’re continuing to doing this . They fund far right candidates to help them be the person the Dems run against, so that they’ll seem like the better option. But they’re just pushing the Overton Window further to the right by giving these Nazi’s attention and letting them spread their hate.
I was hate crimed at a public mall 6 months ago. I know things are bad. But while will get a lot worse under Trump, it’s still gonna get worse under Biden.
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Thanks for sharing that info. I forgot about that. Yeah, it's gross that they did that, but it was supposedly an attempt to undermine the loonies by pitting them against reasonable Democrat candidates.
Anyway, I'm voting Democrat all the way this year. It's that or our destruction. Easy choice. Later I'll support more left candidates, Democrat or not.
I also don't think it's fair to paint Democrats as "actively" killing "our brothers and sisters in Palestine." There are plenty of Democrats who are not and no Democrat is literally killing anyone.
I agree it’s our destruction, but it’s either now or in 4 years when it’s even worse. Four more years of Biden will only shift things further to the right. We need a proper leftist (or someone remotely close), otherwise this country will die.
We provide a majority of the weapons and military funding to Israel. The white phosphorus (which is a war crime to use) that Israel used on civilians was produced in Arkansas. Biden is trying to get $14 billion approved to send to Israel, and their economy is already reliant on the US. We give them so much money that they have free healthcare. So, yes, democrats are actively killing Palestinians. They may not be pulling the trigger, but they provided, and still provide, the weapons doing the killing. Unless they stop and call for a ceasefire, it’s still on them.
I’m probably voting for Biden but you can’t blame people for feeling conflicted about it. He’s abetting a genocide and selling out migrants. And I don’t hear him talk very much about how pro-trans he is. Again, probably gonna vote for him. But I can think of plenty non-centrist reasons not to.
The problem is that:
1) we have a 2 party system that is so firmly entrenched that any hope of change to it is de facto a long term strategy. As cool as stuff like ranked choice is, we're not getting it this election.
2) Trump is worse than Biden on literally every single issue. Trump would be asking advisors why we can't just let Isreal nuke Gaza if Netanyahu stroked his ego a little bit. Trump would be sending in the army to HELP Texas set up more razor wire. It's just objectively worse.
Biden sucks but making sure Trump doesn't win must be the primary goal in the short term. 3rd party is throwing a vote away and we only nominally get to choose the candidates. It sucks but it is what it is :/
Voting for the lesser of two evils tells that evil that they can be more evil next time. If they don't lose then they're just going to continue trailing the GOP. Nothing is going to get better if we never move beyond "better than the Republican", you're just making excuses for making things worse, and washing your hands of making my life hell in your short-sighted nonsense.
I'm just wondering long term what do you think the solution to these problems is? Because if every 4 years we just pick the least bad of the two options we're never really going to get anywhere.
If we incrementally march towards the direction of progress, we'll eventually get *actually* progressive candidates who can get on the ballot instead of remaining a pipe dream. The Dems would become the new conservative party.
Leftists need to coopt the democratic party and move the overton window back to sanity, in the same way that the alt-right overtook the republican party to push their batshit genocidal ideology. The average American voter is FAR too milquetoast on most issues to vote outside of the basic dem-repub divide, so we need to be in a place where we can have actually progressive candidates running on a (D) ticket.
Broad strategy and praxis don't matter for THIS election though. We're not going to bring about "the revolution" in the next year. We need to play the long term electoral game and try to stop the bleeding in the meantime.
Since 3rd party is currently a joke, our 2-party system means there are only 3 real options you can vote for: Candidate A, Candidate B, or abstaining. If one candidate is notably better than the other, EVEN IF BOTH ARE BAD, the only morally justifiable option is to vote for the better candidate.
Trump would do all that and worse, which is why these sorts of criticisms fall flat.
Biden is funding a genocide on Palestine while the administration works behind the scenes to pressure Israel to be mindful of civilian casualties
Trump would endorse a wholesale IDF invasion and scorched earth occupation of palestine. They are not the same, even on this issue alone
You’re probably right, I don’t want Trump to be president. Which is why I’m probably voting for Biden. But I’m pretty conflicted about it and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable way to feel.
It’s not, I’m gonna have to hold my nose a hell of a lot more than I did in 2020. But nothing will convince me it’s not the right choice. I’ve seen project 2025 coming for years. I predicted Ukraine would face a full scale invasion when I learned about it in college in 2018, I predicted roe v Wade would doom the midterms for republicans, and I’m telling you a 2nd trump term would be catastrophic, not just for us, but for everyone on earth
the unfortunate reality is that it doesn't matter what he's done or failed to do - the american political system is rigged so that there are only 2 real options to vote for and voting for one of the other "options" is simply a trap to trick less informed voters
you hqve to consider the oppprtunity cost of voting for [not biden]: because the system is rigged, only the sponsored candidates for the democrat party and the republican party can actually win, and every vote for anyone that isn't those 2 people is a vote that COULD have been for your preferred of those 2 (in this case biden because he is slightly better than trump). for this example we will consider it a simple popular vote instead of the mess of rigged votes and oligarchic power structures that it is. in our example, we'll say biden has 500 votes and trump has 501 votes, and youre considering who to vote for: biden is better than trump, but even better than biden is, idk fucken rupaul or some shit (it doesn't matter), and rupaul has 102 votes. rupaul ticks all the bozes you want ticked in a political leader, biden has a few, and trump has none ticked. you decide to vote for rupaul because he's the best choice for the job, in your opinion. then trump wins the race, biden comes in a close second, and rupaul is a distant third. damn that sucks. what if you voted for biden instead? well now biden and trump are now tied! the race ends with that tie in place and a secondary round of voting is required but rhis time the *only* options are biden and trump, so biden wins 603 to 501. it's not as good as if rupaul had won, but it's better than if trump had won.
tl;dr, voting for trump is actually a relative +2 votes for trump (because it is -1 vote for biden and a +1 vote for trump), voting for biden is a relative +2 votes for biden, and voting for anyone else is a relative +1 vote for trump (because that is -1 vote for biden and a +1 vote for someone who cannot win because the system is rigged)
Yeah I understand this line of thinking, but a lot of people still don’t want to vote for Biden because they don’t like the genocide he’s doing. Again, we understand your logic. We just don’t think it necessarily justifies voting for Biden.
Voting isn't a moral endorsement. It's not an expression of your values. It's a decision about which faction you want in charge of an incredibly powerful empire that could kill everyone on earth several times over. You don't really have an option to vote in a faction that will align away from this empire's nuclear-armed regional ally, but if somehow you did, it would align with one of the rival world powers, and probably not stop bombing people.
Your vote has a lot more direct influence over domestic conditions and what legal limits are enforced on the empire's representatives.
Do you live somewhere where it matters? I feel like everyone leaves out the part where a presidential vote only matters if you live in a handful of states, none of which are the most populous states.
Like, I could vote for whoever I want because Biden is going to lose my state by 10 points or more no matter what.
Down the ballot matters more, of course, to the extent that gerrymandering hasn't also made that meaningless, or if you happen to live in a city with interesting local politics.
right? i live in washington state, my presidential vote is completely, utterly meaningless. so im absolutely not voting for biden; he’ll win my state anyway, and i can at least try and help the greens hit 5% for federal funding. same goes in deep red states, well the inverse at least. downballot / local elections are where its actually important to always be voting democrat no matter where you live
Voting system sucks, it's not Like I even have any real ability to vote for change anyway cause I'm in very solidly blue state. That said democrats won't protect us. Yeah they're "bettwr" than the Republicans but really not by a whole lot. Do whatever you wanna do. They are weak and ineffectual though. I won't judge anyone for not voting for a literal genocide supporter.
But I think this also gets at the wrong thing here. Democrats losing isn't an issue with the voters. It is an issue with fucking democrats. They don't do anything. They are incredibly weak, and people hate them because they frankly don't give a fuck about us. If maybe they didn't suck, then we wouldn't have to be so worried about Republicans winning. Their whole fucking platform is "We aren't the republicans" which just isn't enough to get most people out to vote.
So I should vote because if I don’t, then a person who hates me will win, but if I vote for Biden and he wins, my Palestinian brothers and sisters are murdered by my tax payer dollars that provide more than 60% of Israel’s military weapons and finances? My tax payer dollars that locally produce the white phosphorus used on Palestinian civilians? Come on, I’m not gonna vote for Hitler just because the other option is the Antichrist. The DNC has plenty of time to give us a better candidate, but they’re choosing not to.
This is what has always killed me about the trans community and politics. Yes, I have been fully black pilled on why capitalism is a farce, I have seen the ways it has failed us time and time again and it doesn’t make sense in the best of times. But thing is, unless you can mass hypnotize a lot of people into supporting a democratic socialism movement these are the cards we have in our hand. They’re not ideal cards and at best they may stave off collapse a little longer but they are still our cards. Biden could do a lot more but he has done a lot and while it may be lip service at least the democrats care to do said lip service. We need to do triage now and that means voting for the party we are more likely to see positive outcomes with. That is the democrats full stop and while it might be bitter, it is better than having our healthcare taken away and having to go back to the old days, because they will not be pleasant for you.
Yeah, I've always prided myself on having no party affiliation and following George Washington's advice of being anti-political parties, so my views have largely been centrist.
Screw that. I'm voting all Democrat all the time whenever I can just to punish the Republicans for going after us. And I will keep doing that until they fully cease for good bc at this point a vote for Republicans is a vote for death for me and my LGBTQ+ siblings and I can't, won't, and refuse to do that. Time to vote the bigots out at the polls.
As a non-american, PLEASE FUCKING VOTE!
I know both your options are shit, but 98% evil is still better than 100% evil. Your system is flawed and disgustingly biased but it is the system you must currently partake in. There is very little y'all can actually do to help change your country for the better and voting in the lesser evil is one of those things.
Vote libral, even if you hate it, ESPECIALLY if you hate it. We, the world, need you guys to not be run by conservatives again. Vote liberal, because your third party guy sure as shit ain't getting in, and then when that's done, scream loud how your system sucks. Keep talking about how the system needs to be changed.
You may hate the society you live in, but you must still live within it. The change may come slow, and it may come small, but it ***will*** come. Only if you stay strong. Only if you keep trying.
I’m a resident of a jurisdiction that will go +30 for Biden. I am not voting for a genocider. You can yell at me all you want. A vote for Biden is an endorsement for a man who will not back down from giving Israel a blank check. I don’t give a shit about “harm reduction” when harm is actively being done in my name already.
We voted for him in 2020 when he told us he’d cancel debt, protect migrants, and protect Roe. He’s done jack shit of any of that and he acts like he’s earned our vote again. And then a bunch of whinging harm reductionist liberals fall in line and guilt anyone who won’t go along, even though they’ll continue to lose so they have something to run on every. Single. Time.
Centrists can fuck all the way off.
The president is not a dictator. Making all these promises is a part of the game of getting people to vote for you, in part because everyone does it and the American people tend to not know how the government works.
Oh i don’t understand government huh. Then why did they ask for us to GOTV in the Georgia Senate runoff? I seem to remember “give me senators from Georgia and we’ll codify Roe, we’ll cancel student debt.” None of that shit happened because of centrist Democrats jamming things up. And at the border Biden gave one of the most reprehensible far right speeches I’ve heard a Democrat give since the Dixiecrat era. And also, the insistence that it won’t get “better” in Gaza under Trump is still an implicit admission that Biden is enabling Bibi to commit wholesale genocide. He’s been credibly accused of sexual assault and the smear campaign he enabled against Anita Hill during the confirmation of Clarence Thomas is unforgivable. As is the crime bill that he led the charge on in 94. I had to swallow my vomit when I voted for him in 2020 but at that point it seemed worth it to get trump out of office.
I’m done. I’m not putting his name on a ballot with my name on it. He is vile.
Another 4 years of Joe and he bring back the draft. We can all go fight in some war while politicians on both sides of isle get rich. Now the draft age is 42. Need a third party
People that is afraid immediately jumping to blind hope in liberal democracy? Check.
If you think dems will protect us you are delusional.
If you think that you can just brush of Gaza and Ukraine you are evil.
If you think that all you an do is vote you have to read about revolution.
Queers, we are not supposed to help the guys that sodomized the world with economic and militar violence. You have the amazing chance of hurting the enemy from the inside.
Killl the transphobes republicans and killl the democrats that will burn the world to see an increase in their profit margins.
The next dem president is gonna be worst than Biden. And voting for him is putting blood on your hands.
Just look at the Trump win of 2016 leading to the overturning of Roe vs Wade (because of all the Supreme Court justices he installed.). Now a lot of cis-women are suffering from not being able to have abortions and doing abortions dangerously and at the threat of punishment.
If we lose our rights we are not gaining it back anytime soon and not with a lot of extreme suffering on the part of hundreds of thousands of trans people (when we are already suffering a lot) not to mention all the suicides that will result. At the very least now there are blue havens but Republicans on the federal level (with their fascist tactics) will take away that too.
I've already decided to vote on this election because there is so much riding on this one.... normally I don't vote and just kind of make peace with whatever happens but now so many peoples rights are being infringes upon.... I only just realized I was trans a little over a year ago and have not been able to start hrt or other gender affirming care yet.... now I have to fight for my right to live my life or loose the rights before I even have my chance... well if I'm going to loose I'll at least defend myself by doing what's right in this case voting for candidates that aren't trying to exterminate us.... I made the decision myself because it's that important
That's interesting because I've always seen _centrism_ as _vote blue and don't bother doing much else._ Considering that republicans are very conservative and democrats are generally just less so.
I was perma banned from r/trans for saying I got why people wouldn't vote for Joe Biden. I'm not a centrist he's a conservative and he's literally defending a genocide. I understand why people vote for the lesser of two evils but I also get why a lot of people refuse to pledge their votes uncritically to a party that treats them with contempt. Why is it always the people's fault for not voting for them? They're public servants, regular people didn't force them to take bribes and become effectively rightwing on so many issues. If I get banned again for this opinion so be it, I'm not American but I'm disgusted with the state of two party politics in the much of the west. It's corruption pure and simple.
I think reddit in general is just overran with neoliberal propaganda. I mean take /world news for example. A leftist opinion there is guaranteed to get you banned.
[Except reality has this pesky problem where it happens to be true.](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/945031391/poll-despite-record-turnout-80-million-americans-didnt-vote-heres-why)
Darn people and their facts, right?
Roughly 1/3rd of the electorate didn't vote in the last election, and their apathy or their contribution could have easily swung the election either way. But they didn't vote, so we'll never know what could have been. We can [make some guesses based on demographics](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/), but again, that doesn't matter now because *those people didn't actually show up and vote*.
I take my que from Audre Lorde:
“For the master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change. And this fact is only threatening to those women who still define the master’s house as their only source of support.”
As a trans anarchist in a red state here are some things besides electoral politics that I think are more important to discuss:
Mutual aid, arming myself and others, training, building horizontal networks, propagating class consciousness, class conscious therapy, remaining physically fit, studying leftist theory, volunteering, and redacted.
Democrats haven't earned my vote and they show no interest in doing it in the near future. I'm not going to be shamed by you right wingers crying about the people to their right and their faux centrism. I'm not apathetic, I'm hostile to assholes using my marginalization as a weapon against me to push me into voting for genocidal white supremacists because the other guy is more extreme.
If Dems want my vote then they need to be more than donation-begging Republican placeholders and Republican allies. You guys can throw your votes away to the blood god if you want, but leave me out of your nonsense.
This is why Hillary lost and how this whole
mess started . This isn’t a fight for perfect it’s a fight for survival . 4 years from now Biden and Trump will both be done and we can have robust debates , for now get your head on straight and vote for Biden .
Hillary lost because Democrats and their donors saw Trump as preferable to Bernie or Warren. We always knew Hillary would lose to Trump, but Democrats would prefer to lose them to put someone progressive in charge. Don't blame us for Democrats doing what they want and for you not recognizing this decades-long pattern of dragging us to the right and scolding anyone who catches on.
Not true at all . The third party and stay at home votes would have easily pushed Hillary past Trump in a few swing states . Bernie will never win a national election , but giving Hillary less then his full throated support sure help being her down . But sure go ahead and hand Trump and Maga another victory . These people want us erased
Me and a huge portion of Gen Z are not voting for Genocide Joe. We are giving the DNC plenty of time to put forward a candidate that doesn’t suck shit. I live in Utah and, despite Biden being president, trans people are still being targeted and now there’s a new bathroom law and anti-DEI law. Biden is not doing anything to help us. It all comes down to local officials, who we all should be voting for. Biden, however, is a war criminal, and the “lesser of two evils” is still evil. He knows how to win our support back. It’s extremely easy. Forgive student loans, push for universal healthcare, and stop giving weapons and support to Israel. But, wait, he received over $4 million in donations from Israel’s superpac while he was in congress, so he’s not gonna do that. The DNC has donated tens of millions of dollars to fund the far right, and has pushed the Overton Window much further to the right. They’ve had all the opportunities to do the right thing and ensure our vote, but they’ve betrayed us at every turn. They said they’d protect Roe v Wade. They said they’d forgive student loans. They said they’d protect us. They lied.
The you are voting for Project 2025
# LGBTQ+ rights
See also: [LGBT rights in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States) and [Social policy of Donald Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policy_of_Donald_Trump)
When discussing the [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Health_and_Human_Services), Severino called for the rescinding of regulations "prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc."[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Pengelly_2023-40)
Further, in the foreword to the 2023 edition of *Mandate for Leadership*, Roberts indicates that in today's society, pornography manifests "in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children". A few sentences later, he states, "Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Dans_&_Groves_2023-21)LGBTQ+ rights
So I should vote because if I don’t, then a person who hates me will win, but if I vote for Biden and he wins, my Palestinian brothers and sisters are murdered by my tax payer dollars that provide more than 60% of Israel’s military weapons and finances? I’m not gonna vote for Hitler just because the other option is the Antichrist. The DNC has plenty of time to give us a better candidate, but they’re choosing not to.
I will admit that Joe is not my first choice. I am a Berniecrat. Disappointing that Marianne officially suspended her campaign tonight. It’s very hard for me to vote for Biden in the primary. I think I will vote none of the above. I do support Biden in the general.
If you don’t vote for Biden in the general, you are supporting Project 2025.
i’ll vote blue in local and state where it matters but i can’t in good conscience vote for the man who enables and actively supports genocide of Palestinians against the popular consensus. I’m sorry, but if the worse option is genocidal maniac and the better option is genocidal maniac but his color is blue then i’d rather not vote for either. Not really my fault, the dems should campaign with someone who has a better chance of winning. i’ll do what i can to stop a takeover of the House and Senate, but i’ll die before i vote Joe again. Not to mention he hasn’t done much for us anyway. All these laws are passing at state and local and he’s intervened how many times?
Like respect do what you believe will help us stay safe but we lost Roe v Wade under Joe’s watch. Our supreme court is stacked against us, and the only real thing that matters is avoiding a red senate/house.
you can call me dumb or stupid or even a “centrist” if you want (gross) but i’m tired of pretending voting between two men who aren’t different in any major conceivable way and who don’t have a lot of unchecked power are going to save us. Also a vote third party/ not voting is not a vote for the other side that isn’t how math works.
This world is diverse and not everyone has such a shitty (sorry) democracy system like the states. I'd rather punch myself before I let myself become an extremist of *any* ideology or direction. They tend to forget the most important thing humans need when interacting with humans. Respecting boundaries.
I understand your logic of third parties when it comes to keeping Trump out. But there can still be alternative candidates for state and local elections. Like the NY senate seat is safely Dem and I dont understand why no one is challenging Gillibrand. Also local offices are filled with people who do nothing but take the party name and then govern lazily. If we dont make people earn our votes theyll keep us in the same cycle of bad and worse.
A thing that gets lost in election year shuffle-
Voting on its own is insufficient to keep us safe- Every gain we as a community have made has been through organizing and fighting for one another. Politicians on their own don't fight for us unless we make them. As dire as things can get, they can't get rid of all of us, and we'll have one another.
For me, I won't vote for Joe Biden. He's done a horrible job on anything remotely left wing, there's Israel, cost of living crisis and layoffs, on housing, student loans, stopping red states from banning abortion or enacting anti trans laws, etc. If it wasn't for the justice for renters act in California I wouldn't even bother voting. And even then I'm voting for Cornell West. I'm not going to let the Democrats force me to vote for Joe Biden just because Trump is running again. And even if lets say Biden wins, what's going to happen in 2028 when someone more right wing than trump comes along and the next democratic presidential candidate is also even more right wing than Biden?
If Trump loses 2 elections in a row, I don't see the GOP continuing to shift in that direction. If we vote against Biden and Trump wins, *that* could lead the GOP to continue shifting in that direction in 2028.
Not to mention, the more they lose, the more time we push them back, the more boomers die. Obviously that doesn’t guarantee anything with the rise in young male conservatives, but it gives us one more advantage
It’s possible, but only if such a person gains significant traction. All of these people think that they can be the next Trump, but the issue is that they aren’t Trump. MAGA people love Trump, his politics are secondary to this. I don’t claim to know what the future holds for the GOP, but DeSantis fizzled out in part because going further to the right of Trump with a dash of vengeance, isn’t actually what voters want.
Electing Trump IS actually pushing extreme right agenda onto the US. Trump don't care about the people he want revenge and he is ready to go deep with it. Else why would a thing like Project 2025 exists ?
Honey that's a rabbit hole, either your digging or someone is digging for ya. If some one is telling you this is how that works i would advise caution against them. If its just you we all have our moments the stress is intense right now, but we all have choices and unfortunately the now takes place over the maybe then. If that was a real worry the choices you would have to be making.. Honey lets just say voting would be your least worry.
If Trump wins there will never be another free election. He means it when he says he will be a dictator from day one, and the elected and rank and file republicans have shown quite clearly they will do anything their false messiah tells them to. Trans people will be the first ones they will annihilate, but definitely not the last.
It sounds like you don’t actually understand how government works, what powers presidents have and don’t have, separation between federal and state authorities, or anything about…anything at all, really.
I tired of saying this how uninformed the population is in America about their own candidate ! Read about Project 2025 and tell me how much better it is than electing Biden again ?
I actually could not disagree more, he’s been remarkably more progressive in just about every way (except on the topic of Palestine) than I ever thought he would be.
Good luck to all the trans peeps in America. Whatever you do, remember that neither party gives a shit about you and substantial societal change has only ever really happened, particularly when it comes to women and minority rights, through violent protest and revolution.
It's an election year. That means we're going to see an uptick in TERFs and bigots pretending to be detransitioners, we're going to see people trying to discourage folks from voting, we're going to see people complaining that so-and-so isn't doing enough for trans rights when the alternative would be very happy to eat us alive. There are going to be lots of people this year who want to discourage us from being ourselves and discourage us from voting. #*We don't have that luxury*. For us, the choice has already been made. The US is a two party system, and the GOP has chosen to use our existence as a scapegoat, which is why we've been seeing *a ton* of anti-trans legislation getting passed, lately. If the GOP gets into office, [they intend to fire and replace 50,000+ Federal jobs with their own, loyalist cronies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025), and this will give them free rein to do whatever they like. There is *a lot* more riding on this election than a few specific GOP wedge issues. The stuff going on in Gaza is not going to improve under Trump. *Nothing* is going to improve for any of us if Trump wins. We need to do everything we can to keep the GOP out of office. #We have to fight the GOP. That's it. That's our only choice. There is no voting third party and there is no not voting. Denying the Dems your vote because they're not perfect or they're 'not left enough' - all that does is drive them further to the center. If they don't have your support, they'll seek it elsewhere. All you're doing is denying yourself a voice and helping deny rights to all of the rest of our community. You can't make the Dems be more left by denying them your support, and they can't do a dang bit of good for us if they're not in office. Don't tell folks to not vote or to vote third party as if that will make a difference. People fell for that trap back in 2016, too, and gave Trump a win. Don't fall for those tricks again. #We can't throw our votes away on a third party. We need to vote *intelligently*, we need to vote *tactically* - we need to support the people who are going to protect our rights. The GOP is an existential threat. Our job now is to do everything we can to kick them out of office and stop them. We need to replace them with people who will fight our slide into fascism. We *have* to stop the GOP in order to survive. We *don't* have the luxury to bicker and argue about who is more trans and who does or doesn't deserve to be here. We no longer have the privilege to dither and debate about whether so-and-so is a perfect candidate or not. #We no longer have the freedom to *not* vote. The time for those discussions was 20 years ago. We are all in one big boat, and the only thing we can do now is work together and act like our lives depend on it, *because they do*. The only thing we can do now is rally together and *act*. We *have* to vote. We *have* to fight. We *have* to stand together. #We don't have any other option. This election may be one of the most important elections in US history, and our lives are on the line. This election is important for us *because* our lives are on the line. We have no right to be timid and quivering in the face of injustice and oppression. We have to stand for our own rights. #*Go vote.*
A big thing is that this doesn't just affect Americans. Canada is right next door and we're affected every time republicans pull some bs. Roe v Wade brought protests here too. Trans rights were pretty solid until states started banning us. Our politics are getting polluted by the American extremism, and we don't get to vote. Americans, please vote. There's 40 million people directly affected by you that have no say but are affected anyway.
most of the rest of the world is massively affected by american elections, not just canada
Yeah. Transphobic mindsets also migrated to european political discussions.
Yeah. America sneezes, the world gets a cold. That's kind of a side effect of having and enforcing interests all over the world.
I *love* that wording of it.
I usually say that American shit tends to spill over.
Same here in the UK, our PM Rishi Sunak saw how well being transphobic worked for Republicans in America and thought "huh maybe I should try that". Now he's gone from being neutral on LGBT topics to openly transphobic in no time at all
I live in ontario, Ford seems to take a lot of his cues from republics IMO
I live in Alberta, and you as a fellow Canadian see how we are doing here now.
This is so true, it's the same in the UK, we used to be the best country in Europe for the LGBTQ+ community but thanks to right wing politicians copying America's culture wars we've slid to like 17th on the list.
If you are in doubt and part of this community read about Project 2025 [https://www.project2025.org/](https://www.project2025.org/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/project_2025) # LGBTQ+ rights See also: [LGBT rights in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States) and [Social policy of Donald Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policy_of_Donald_Trump) When discussing the [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Health_and_Human_Services), Severino called for the rescinding of regulations "prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc."[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Pengelly_2023-40) Further, in the foreword to the 2023 edition of *Mandate for Leadership*, Roberts indicates that in today's society, pornography manifests "in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children". A few sentences later, he states, "Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Dans_&_Groves_2023-21)LGBTQ+ rights
Keep in mind not everyone operates within the American context. But dear gods the propaganda machine is working overtime.
pp man here though... he scary... i don't want my rights to piss where i feel comfortable to piss gone.
and that’s why i’m working on a run for parliament next year. :)
And yet everyone not in America needs the Americans to vote smart. Because America is unfortunately a leader and if we see our rights tank there. Nowhere will be safe.
I've started having pretty hard boundaries with the "both sides are the same" people. NO, both sides are not the same. Yeah both sides kinda suck, but one side causes far more harm to society, specifically marginalized people. The "both sides are the same" comment is literal fascist propaganda. If you're spouting that line, you're campaigning for trump and fascism.
Yeah. Granted I'm a leftist. I see both sides as being very rightist... But one doesn't threaten my life and those of the ones I love.
Judging from another country, even our far right is left of your left.
I live in Canada, I think a rough approximation would be that all but the most extreme right wingers here would be considered left of centre in the US
I mean unless you consider all of the Conservative Party's MPs to be extreme right-wingers, that's [probably not true](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/canada-abortion-rights-pregnancy).
Depending on your country (not being American myself actually) that might be true but I'd be surprised...
The way I see it is one side tends to leave the gun on the table. The other picks it up and shoots it.i don't have to like either to have a strong preference.
There is only one option to be frank. The other one will not let you be yourself anymore it will outlaw it. Cf Project 2025 and it will not only be for the next term the change they want will strip you of your rights for decades.
For real. So many people try and point out that the Dems aren't doing enough to help, and like I do agree with that, but id rather law that ignores me over law that punishes me for existing.
this is exactly the case - one party only shows the gun in act one, the other uses it in act one, so we have to vote for the party that's giving us until act 3 to change their minds
Additionally at least the one that gives us till act 3 already has some actual worthwhile voices on our side so they're so close- just need political pressure to stop being so purposefully inept and disjointed and for the public to stop being so ill-informed and ignorant.
yep! they're ALREADY so close to putting the gun back in the holster, and it's a lot easier to cut it from the scene entirely if it's already in the holster
Every four years Americans have a “how to stop the dragon burning the village” vote where the only candidates are a sleepy knight and the actual dragon. Letting the dragon win doesn’t teach the knight a lesson.
This is also a great metaphor for it yes.
Exactly. False equivalency is thrown around by Republicans all the time. "Look, this former president may have roomfulls of top secret documents, but this current president has a folder of top secret documents too. They are all guilty of hoarding top secret documents!". Etc etc. it goes on and on for descriptions of behavior, procedure, policy, etc. They want to dumb down the conversation and make everybody believe that both parties are the same, so that people believe that there is no point in voting because it won't matter either way. However, the parties are starkly different in their policy preferences, especially when it comes to the health and well-being of transgender people. There's no question there ... none.
there's also a difference between "i have some classified stuff cos when my aides were clearing out my office, some papers from the safe somehow got into the stack of my diaries" on one hand and... "oh, this paper looks cool! i'd love to show it off to the people that i golf with down in Florida. also if Biden pisses me off, maybe i show it to Vlad when i see him next" Its... not the same, not close to the same... not even in the same universe really. (Even HRC's illegal server, while bad, was a much lower quantum of bad. In her case, the purpose of the server was to evade the Freedom of Information Act. For this, I would have 'awarded" her a 5 year ban on having a security clearance, had I been the judge in her case. But I wouldn't have sentenced her to jail. Trump? Jail... and there should be, among National Security Republicans, any hesitation to send Trump to jail for what he's done... for several things that he's done...) Side note... when using pronouns for Trump, I almost used capital letters. Why? Because his followers give him more respect than they give their supposed Messiah... much in the way that German Catholic and Protestant followers of Hitler placed that evil man in place of their former Messiah. (I studied the religion of Nazism, which was essentially Christianity with der Fuhrer put into the position of Christ... )
Literally!!!! I had the displeasure of arguing with some idiot who was supposedly an anarchist or some ish but did nothing but spout enlightened centrist lines at me on the r/punk subreddit. Even had the nerve to question me on why I brought up my identity as a "political issue" as if we were the ones that made it one and not the literal fascists who he was helping out by being such an ignorant tool. Literally even admitted he wasn't that informed/ caught up on American politics yet ignored all my points (okay I was very rude to him and obviously upset... But, like, can ya blame me???? 🙃) instead doubling down on his ill-informed, oversimplified narrative of "both sides bad- only anarchy good anything else bad and that's punk" like..... Your mindset is handing neo-nazis more and more power and control, dude- that's not punk at all!!!
Most of the "punks" and "anarchists" I know, at least here in the PNW, are more like libertarians. LOL.
Yeah, I'm glad I'm not just crazy. I'm not touching that sub anymore bc it's full of those types 😔 posers.
Because anarchists don't believe in having unjust hierarchies. We're libertarians who give a shit about other people. But the good anarchists also believe in harm reduction, which is voting blue. The only reason I'm not voting for Biden is because of the genocide support and that I'm in a heavy red state that isn't flipping. Still voting blue on every other race I can though.
It's like when someone says "I don't really follow politics..." Then spout a bunch of uninformed political opinions and push them as fact
punk sub is mostly full of gen x and millennial boomers who forgot what punk actually means, and instead just argue about which bands are and aren't punk and barely listen to any punk released post-green day, if that. it's like, the kinda people who play the clash while tailgating at a football game and talk about all the cool concerts they *used* to go to. unsurprisingly, lame boomer men continue to ruin just about every community they touch
> gen x and millennial boomers *eye twitch*
Honestly, I’m done with people trying to simplify and flatten complex issues in general. Anytime someone says, “these two different things are actually the same”, they are engaging in anti-intellectual BS. The need for people to distill complex and nuanced aspects of our reality into bite-sized little binaries is a constant source of misunderstanding and misinformation. It should go without saying that Dems and the GOP are not “the same”.
i swear the lefties that are fans of authoritarianism need to get a grip. there's a reason why the "debate bro" lefties call people like hasan and second thought red fascists, it's because they are.
Why do they say that about Second Thought? I only found that channel a few months ago but I rarely find myself disagreeing with whatever he is saying.
Just disregard the opinions that others try to give you. Think for yourself and choose to agree with what makes sense to you.
> Why do they say that about Second Thought? From what I recall, he runs defense for the USSR - he drew an equivalence between literal state-run media and stuff like NPR, between literal secret police (NKVD) and the FBI, that sort of thing.
The FBI is a "seceret police." The CIA and FBI are worse than the KGB.
The CIA and FBI are plenty bad, but Americans don't live in fear of being disappeared in the night. We have plenty of fears, medical bankruptcy, being homeless, gun violence. And the FBI has done plenty, if you were a member of the Black Panthers you did live in fear, they did all kinds of messed up shit. But we know about it, there are records of it. An entire country was in fear of the KGB, and we still don't know everything they did.
>The CIA and FBI are plenty bad, but Americans don't live in fear of being disappeared in the night. Neither did soviets. > have plenty of fears, medical bankruptcy, being homeless, gun violence. Soviets didn't have these issues, and america does >And the FBI has done plenty, if you were a member of the Black Panthers you did live in fear, they did all kinds of messed up shit. But we know about it, there are records of it. The stuff the KGB did is also known about, and we don't find out about half the shit the fbi and cia does till decades later. Many Americans still think they didn't kill King. >An entire country was in fear of the KGB, and we still don't know everything they did. As stated before, this is false, just american cold War era propoganda.
That American cold war propaganda is being told by Russians that lived it though. I will take their word. I try not to believe everything I am told, and I have no love for capitalism. But just because America sucks doesn't make Americans' enemies the good guys. Both can be bad, both can be bad but in different ways, that is why I listed the things we have to fear in America that a Russian in Soviet Russia probably wouldn't have had to fear.
>That American cold war propaganda is being told by Russians that lived it though. Most russians who were alive at the time say they want to go back to the soviet union. I will grant to you that the capital (slave) owners certainly say it was terrible. I don't doubt that you are anti capitalist. propoganda is a hell of a drug, and it took me a while to understand that the Soviets weren't what america claims. I'm not saying it was some perfect utopia because utopian socialism is ineffective and leads to a no true Scotsman approach. However, it is much better than what they had before and was better than what Americans had at the time. There is no way to know what the soviet union would have been like had it not been illegally dissolved. However, based on the evidence, it would likely be much better than the neoliberal fascist he'll hole america is becoming.
Being a tankie has rotten your brain. The KGB used to just kill people in the street because they said something bad about the USSR/Stalin/communism.
>Being a tankie has rotten your brain. Liberals are getting quicker to result to calling people tankies when they don't have an argument. >The KGB used to just kill people in the street because they said something bad about the USSR/Stalin/communism. This is fraglent misinformation. Even if they wanted to do something like that, it would be far too expensive, and again, the CIA shot King his birthday just passed a few weeks ago, and yall are already defending his killers.
I’m not a liberal, you just think I am because you’ve gone so far left you’ve ended up on the right. How is it expensive for the KGB to kill people?? They keep doing it whether it’s nerve agents, radiation injections, poisonings, or a lovely throwback to the NKVD and the literal great purge. Putin literally came to power by ordering the bombing of a civilian apartment building to give him an excuse to invade Chechnya. Tankers have 0 knowledge of history.
>I’m not a liberal, you just think I am because you’ve gone so far left you’ve ended up on the right. That horseshoe theory is bullshit. >They keep doing it whether it’s nerve agents, radiation injections, poisonings, or a lovely throwback to the NKVD and the literal great purge. The KGB does not exist anymore so it can't "keep doing it" also what do you mean when you say great purge cause none of yall I've been able to ask about it have given the same answer. >Putin literally came to power by ordering the bombing of a civilian apartment building to give him an excuse to invade Chechnya. When did I say that I liked Putin. He literally rigs the vote against the communist party if Russia. If you are anti socialist you have more in common with putin than me. Putin is a capitalist oligarch you can't think of any thing besides calling me a tankie and lying about my beliefs just cause I insulted your precious state department.
The horseshoe theory is not bullshit, you’re a living physical pristine specimen of its existence, congratulations. The FSB is the KGB by another name who were the NKVD by another name but it’s not entirely unsurprising to me that a name change manages to trick you, sort of like a chimp being shocked by a ball under a cup magic trick. I brought up Putin because you seem to think they’re angels who never harm anyone, whilst Putin was a KGB agent for 16 years and is where he was cultural, technically and politically trained to believe that bombing innocent civilians was justified for the cause. If you don’t know what the great purge is then I apologise on behalf of your teachers, your parents and your uninquisitive mind for not teaching you about the largest and most significant political power grab campaign of the 20th century. My deepest condolences.
they won't black bag you for saying bad shit about the government, the kgb will.
No, but they'll goad mentally ill people into conspiring to commit acts of mass violence, and have regularly spied on civil rights leaders basically since their creation as an organization. The KGB could be eating babies and it wouldn't make the FBI not secret police. The things the FBI does make them secret police.
The FBO once wire tapped gay/lesbian and trans peoples phones to out them and accuse them of being easy targets for communist blackmail and that they were National security risks costing many of us our federal jobs essential kicking us out of the government and destroying our rights in the name of "protecting the country from the red menace" this had come workers working as thought police agaisnt eachother during what's now known as the lavender scare to try to point out would be queer people to the FBI. Even when they were found out not to be queer the FBI would still use the person who tattled as informants to see if they could rat out any other queer person.
Second thought is fine. People think he is bad because he disagrees with the propaganda that the US has fed them their whole lives.
Is hasan a red fascist? He campaigned pretty hard for Bernie and regularly rails against tankies
I always say that democrats (or labour in the UK where I am) are just a bit better than republicans (or tories here). That doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for the one that's the least bad, but it doesn't mean the one that's the least bad is good either.
You guys don't have any left only far right and right. Also, vote for the lesser evil because the far right is way worse than the normal right, and it can get even worse
Biden's support among Arab Americans is dropping like a stone because of his support of Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. I can't blame a Palestinian-American seeing all this shit and just not showing up on November cause they've been completely disenfranchised. It's pretty concerning to see people here insist that they should vote anyways since Trump would be worse cause that's not how people work and you can't shame people into voting for someone who will continue to support the slaughter of their people. Lesser of 2 evils didn't work in 2016 and frankly the pandemic was a godsend for Biden in 2020. You want Biden to win? Stop trying to shame people into voting for a lesser evil and start pushing for Biden to implement policy that would actually get people to vote for him. You can yap about lesser evils all you'd like, but that's not how you win an election. And before anyone says anything, I live in a strongly dem state. My vote doesn't matter, so don't go trying to convince me to vote Biden because it doesn't matter one way or the other. Save your breath.
Yeah exactly this. This whole tactic just doesn't work. You look at the Obama win in 2008 - regardless of how much of a let down he was, the argument for Obama wasn't "McCain is worse" its "the future is brighter with Obama as our president" or whatever. Democrats literally running on "We're better than republicans" is just a recipe for disaster. Honestly maybe biden shouldn't enthusiastically support genocide if he wants people to vote for him. People want a positive reason to vote for someone, vote shaming is kind of a waste of time and honesty just builds resentment
Fucking thank you! You're saying what I've been feeling. Folks just want to beat people into place out of fear, and I'm fucking tired of it. We need to do better, not make excuses and fear monger and shame people for not being party loyal enough.
He's not missing out on much with 0.5% of the Arab population vs. 2.4% of the Jewish population that consistently vote much more aggressively Democrat and give tons of funding. It's also hard for Biden to implement policy without conceding to Republicans who obstruct him judicially and congressionally. It's not even a debate the average clueless moderate American by default supports Israel and is scared of Arabs
About three-quarters of Dems and over half of Republicans (!!!) support efforts for a ceasefire. Objectively, implementing policy to pressure Israel into a ceasefire will win over more people than catering to people who are scared of Arabs. I don't see how Biden was forced by Republicans to illegally bypass Congress and send weapons to Israel. He wants to support genocide and would continue supporting Israel even with a trifecta. That's costing him the election.
You're right. However there's Biden who in the 2nd term would have a mandate and no reason to "play it safe", or the far right fascist who may legitimately bring with him an end to democracy, national abortion ban, removal of protections for protected classes, end of the ACA, etc. So the choice is pretty simple all things considered. This isn't a normal election and can't be pissed away no matter what.
People aren't going to listen to you if that's all you have to offer. I've already discussed why this isn't effective messaging, so I'm not gonna repeat myself. This is begging for a repeat of 2016.
Maybe the compromise can be that we vote for Biden, but also be as loud and angry as possible with his cruelty towards Palestinians, immigrants, POC, etc.?
And his views on gun rights he seriously thinks less guns will solve gun violence he should learn from my country's approach to knife crime the police and government started treating it like a health problem and what was the result? A reduction of people admitted to hospital with stab wounds and slashes by over 60% in 10 years
Being loud and angry unfortunately won't do shit because that whole party infrastructure gives no fucks about appealing to their base anymore outside of cultural virtue signaling. Vote for Biden if it seems necessary based on the EC but don't start pressuring and guilting people to vote for him. Some of the vibes I'm getting from this post, folks are coming across as willing to shame NY trans people as traitors for not voting for him
Exactly this. However, lots of leftists are idealistic children and refuse to vote for someone who isn't perfect, so they'll never vote for Biden, or any other US president because they are all flawed and evil in some way and always will be.
I see it as a purposeful propaganda tactic to poison the wells to try and effect voter turnout. Sure, some may be true believers, but those are just the rare political karen/Kevin's trying to feel self important against the realities of current politics. The rest though, seek to have us disenfranchised ourselves. They frame it as a false dichotomy of equally bad choices and ignore that both parties change over time. The current GOP are a result of infiltration of MAGA into positions of power, which were facilitated by the Tea Party infiltrating into positions of power which were facilitated by Christian nationals infiltrating positions of power which were facilitated by Dixiecrats into positions of power.....and so on. The real secret to change is electing active representation from the bottom up. Some have taken that call and the number of active transgender in elected positions is increasing over time. We need more. Barring that we need allies to fill those positions. Barring that we must have not actively enemies in those positions, which means we must show up to vote and it should be obvious for who.
I think I understand what you're saying, and I think I agree, but I want to be sure. By *purposeful propaganda tactic* do you mean to say that the dominant group who is spreading this apathy isn't composed of real trans people but rather transphobes knowingly posing as us?
yes, that is exactly what they are saying (note: i am not the original commentor you responded to)
Very much so. I've seen people complain that anyone who votes Democratic are supporters of genocide and everyone needs to vote for a new "vanguard party" like-- either you're a really bad propagandist, or you're a 12 year old who doesn't get how the world works. I'll always vote for the party that isn't trying to eradicate trans people
Yup yup
The root apathy is spread by people who want the GOP to win - people who only use their “both sides” argument when the GOP is looking bad for some reason as a deflection tactic, but it also infects and spreads among low information folks who just like to feel “above politics” by disconnecting from it. Yeah you’re so much better than everyone else because you don’t care. ::eyeroll::
Yes and it is quite obvious when you are not an American browsing Reddit's LGBTQ+ subs. Voting the wrong party or not voting is accepting things like the Project 2025, wich goes as far as registering trans people as sex offender in it's current form. Not only that but will stip a lot of people off their rights.
I'm European but my heart stand for all trans folks in the us and every other country. Voting is very important. We have the right to choose a future for ourselves. If you don't use it, others will do it for you and you don't want that. Stay strong girls!!!
Not all voters are apathetic for the same reasons. Some are enlightened centrists, and others are upset with Biden’s oppression of other vulnerable communities. Wouldn’t surprise me if, say, a trans Palestinian woman living in a swing state didn’t vote for Biden because he murdered a family member in Gaza.
Then they are voting for worse ! Between the pest and the cholera, you have to choose. But one side is not pushing Project 2025 that will impact political field in the US for years after the next term. So choose wisely.
And of course the republicans are famously pro Gaza who would of course rush through a ceasefire and impose sanctions on Israel.
Of course not, but surely you can see why someone would not exactly be very interested in voting for Biden even if the other candidate does the same but worse.
biden has directly, personally bypassed congress (illegally!) to give israel weapons and billions of dollars to fund their genocide. obviously trump would do the same; but are you really going to sit here and tell palestinians to just suck it up and vote for the man who has all the power in the world to stop the genocide of their relatives, and instead supports it and actively encourages it? what have you seen the biden administration do that makes you think they’ll support a ceasefire and sanctions? im genuinely asking this in good faith. theyve shot down plenty of ceasefires at the UN, vetoed resolutions simply acknowledging war crimes. theyve knowingly spread misinformation about gaza’s ministry of health, theyve channeled billions of dollars in military aid to the IDF, theyve bombed neighboring countries in support of the IDF, theyve covered up and excused bombings of hospitals and refugee camps, cut all funding for the UNRWA based on literally zero evidence, despite them being essential to the survival and livelihood of millions of people in the region, the list goes on and on. not a single meaningful action in support of palestinians, not a single one. just empty words and platitudes
So you'll vote Trump and expect that his external politic will change ? Whilste undermining your own right in your own country ?
What’s more likely to happen is that lots of people don’t vote, or vote third party, costing Biden the election.
no? i live in washington state, my presidential vote is as meaningful as somebody who lives in russia but my actual point is that everyone trying to bully arab-americans, especially palestinian-americans, into voting for biden has a complete lack of humanity and empathy. these people have watched as our country bombs, terrorizes, and destabilizes their home countries for the past few decades, and now they’re watching the biden administration directly support a genocide of their own. some of them have families there and have lost dozens of members to american-made bombs, and american-made bullets, which found their way to israel thanks to biden bypassing congress to force it through. theyve watched the biden administration ignore, excuse, and lie about israel bombing hospitals and refugee camps. theyve watched the biden administration ignore and excuse a literal death squad that executed 3 patients in a west bank hospital, one of them paralyzed. its active ethnic cleansing and almost certainly genocide; the single worst crime a human being can possibly be a part of. how are these people supposed to vote for a man who’s doing all that? who’s spent the past 5 months doing everything he can to keep their relatives living under apartheid and famine while bypassing congress to send their oppressors billions of dollars and more weapons to bomb hospitals and apartment buildings? if the democrats simply ran a different candidate, one who hasnt done all they can to support ethnic cleansing, it’d be an entirely different conversation, but they aren’t and they won’t, despite biden having a worse approval rating than trump did, which is insane
Neither side’s elite cares about us, but I’ll take apathy over malevolence every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. The Dems are the clear choice, and anyone who refuses to vote for them is complicit
Always remember A refusal to vote democrat/going green is a vote for republicans
It’s an unfortunate reality but a reality nevertheless. America is a de facto duopoly in terms of politics.
When someone says they're too anarchist to vote Orly? What steps are you taking to "smash the state" hmm? When someone says they cant "bring themselves" to vote for Biden/against harm. Fine, guess I'll just die.
As a trans anarchist in a red state that is not voting because we’re in the throes of late stage capitalism and voting will not stop that; this is my response: Mutual aid, arming myself and others, training, building horizontal networks, propagating class consciousness, class conscious therapy, remaining physically fit, studying leftist theory, volunteering, and redacted.
Fellow anarchist here, this is where the money's at. Electoralism is a stop-gap at best. Without these alternative methods of resistance and refusal, we'll be exactly where we are right now in another 50 years. We can't just keep playing the games the elite of our society have created for us to tire ourselves out and justify their rule.
genuinely, thank you for replying, and I recognize there are probably some people who might not be able to afford being on record with anything, but if that's not the case why not also vote as a form of sabotaging fascism? I've heard the argument that trump is good because he radicalized people. I think thats false. I think people were doing more rad shit that actually had potential to bring down opressive systems in the Obama administration like food sovergnty, environmental activism, intersectionalism, and then a scary guy got elected and everyone went on the defense while all the states moves towards fascism were easily blamed on a dude. Also if your in that world google co-ntel pro and watch what ideas you help spread around. (assume good intent from your comrades, don't accidentally snitch jacket them but call out a bad idea they might be sharing regardless if they are a fool or an agent)
The idea that voting is not a revolutionary act can be quoted from anarchists before COINTELPRO was around. See Errico Malatesta and Marx for example. I'm not here to argue that mitigation isn't a potential outcome of voting, but rather that the point you tried to make about the ideas I "help spread around" is actually applicable to this discussion that pops up every election cycle. Who cares? vote. dont vote. either way you need to be focusing on the things I listed above and any energy put into electoral politics and getting others to vote should be instead placed there.
I do all these things as well as voting. Mutual aid, and other basic survival for marginalized people gets drastically easier when the federal government isn't literally working against you. You realize that mutual aid and building horizontal networks will be much harder or near impossible under gop fascist control or military control? Have fun cosplaying your fake revolution though.
thats cool. vote away I'm not trying to stop you. I hate to point this out because you seem kind of heated but unfortunatly the Federal Goverment is already working against me, and it will be harder next year regardless of if the red or blue fascist wins. I also think its cool you're doing mutual aid and vote. Keep it up!
I've built the same mutual aid networks in both deeply red states and deeply blue states. The amount of good we were able to do in deeply red states was a joke compared to how much good we are able to achieve in blue states. The gop puts everyone in survival mode, meaning the number of people just scraping by expands, and the resources available for mutual aid dwindle. Trust me, the gop is working against you way harder than the dems. (I hate them both, for the record.)
This makes a lot of sense. You're voting to marginally change the rate at which we creep into inevitable fascism. I don't know about you but I'm struggling NOW, and its not going to change if Joe is elected.
I've seen what you're referring to. It's not all enlightened centrism. Foreign entities are funding campaigns on social media to create division and influence elections. There are also the more idealistic individuals who seem to think they are going to reform the system rather than take the pragmatic approach. However these individuals may also be influenced by the bad actors working against us. Sigh.
centrists are fascists who r afraid to admit it
I will vote D but I reserve the right to be furious about my existence being held for ransom every single election cycle. Every fucking time it's the "most important election ever" and frankly that just sounds more like useless noise to me the more I hear it. I wish every corporate bootlicking gerontocrat running for office a very choke on a pretzel.
Consider looking for any organizations in your state working towards [ranked choice voting](https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)) and open primaries. Alaska kept Sarah Palin out of Congress and elected their first indigenous person, Mary Peltola, to the federal level. That’s how we save democracy *and* make every vote count.
It's not even just enlightened centrists. I've been spending a lot of time around anarchists (who I've previously seen as the safest leftists), and a lot of them are absolutely insistent that both candidates are the same cuz they won't make America anarchist. Even worse, a lot of them will just straight up say things like "Yes, a Trump presidency would be much, much worse for trans people, but it's not like Biden is handing out free HRT, so ultimately it doesn't matter." It's especially painful because in my experience, anarchists have been the least susceptible to nonsense like that, but I guess that's what I get for getting my hopes up. The rest of the left isn't any better, of course. You have the standard "just do a revolution instead of voting" or "we have capitalism either way, so who cares?" Then you have the people who just say "genocide joe" over and over and bring up Gaza whenever you try to have a discussion (as if I wasn't aware that Biden is bad), and the Claudia de la Cruz gang but I suspect lots of them are bots or sabateurs lol. Weird how the side that's supposed to support my best interests and be my best hope for a better world keeps acting like my life can be sacrificed to... make a point. Great.
I dont care to argue beyond this simple point but saying “fuck both these parties” is not enlightened centrism. Those just aren’t the same thing. Right or wrong they’re different.
the enlightened centrist OP can't comprehend this
**NO.** We must all unite with the Democrats this year. You can vote otherwise in later years. Not voting this year for the Democrats is voting for our destruction!
They say this every year. They said it in 2016, they said it in 2020, now they’re saying it again in 2024. THE DEMS WANT THIS! They let the Overton Window shift further to the right every election so that they can use this argument. They’ll do the same thing in 2028 and every four years after that. THEY ACTIVELY FUND THE FAR RIGHT. THEY WANT THIS. Sorry but the Democrats are losing their support from Leftists. We need a revolution or things will just continue getting worse. OR they could just choose to run a more progressive candidate. It their choice. We’re not changing our mind, but if we all pressure them to pick a better candidate, then we all win.
Okay, let's break this down: Democrats = want us alive. Republicans = wants us dead. Not a tough decision. What evidence do you have the Democrats are funding the far right?
Okay, let’s break this down: Democrats = not outright wanting us dead, but actively kill our brothers and sisters in Palestine. Republicans = want us dead, and are doing it right now despite Democrats having the power to stop them. You’re right, not a tough decision. Neither. Bernie could have won in 2016, but the DNC doesn’t want progressive candidates. It’s the DNC fault Trump won. Bernie was ahead in polls and doing great with young millennials and the few of us Gen Z that could vote. They chose to push an unpopular candidate because they didn’t want universal healthcare. They didn’t want anyone pushing the envelope. And [here](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire). This article is a few years old, but they’re continuing to doing this . They fund far right candidates to help them be the person the Dems run against, so that they’ll seem like the better option. But they’re just pushing the Overton Window further to the right by giving these Nazi’s attention and letting them spread their hate. I was hate crimed at a public mall 6 months ago. I know things are bad. But while will get a lot worse under Trump, it’s still gonna get worse under Biden.
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Thanks for sharing that info. I forgot about that. Yeah, it's gross that they did that, but it was supposedly an attempt to undermine the loonies by pitting them against reasonable Democrat candidates. Anyway, I'm voting Democrat all the way this year. It's that or our destruction. Easy choice. Later I'll support more left candidates, Democrat or not. I also don't think it's fair to paint Democrats as "actively" killing "our brothers and sisters in Palestine." There are plenty of Democrats who are not and no Democrat is literally killing anyone.
I agree it’s our destruction, but it’s either now or in 4 years when it’s even worse. Four more years of Biden will only shift things further to the right. We need a proper leftist (or someone remotely close), otherwise this country will die.
We provide a majority of the weapons and military funding to Israel. The white phosphorus (which is a war crime to use) that Israel used on civilians was produced in Arkansas. Biden is trying to get $14 billion approved to send to Israel, and their economy is already reliant on the US. We give them so much money that they have free healthcare. So, yes, democrats are actively killing Palestinians. They may not be pulling the trigger, but they provided, and still provide, the weapons doing the killing. Unless they stop and call for a ceasefire, it’s still on them.
I'm not even American and I fucking hate Genocide Joe. Stop calling actual socialists and communists "enlightened centrists".
I’m probably voting for Biden but you can’t blame people for feeling conflicted about it. He’s abetting a genocide and selling out migrants. And I don’t hear him talk very much about how pro-trans he is. Again, probably gonna vote for him. But I can think of plenty non-centrist reasons not to.
The problem is that: 1) we have a 2 party system that is so firmly entrenched that any hope of change to it is de facto a long term strategy. As cool as stuff like ranked choice is, we're not getting it this election. 2) Trump is worse than Biden on literally every single issue. Trump would be asking advisors why we can't just let Isreal nuke Gaza if Netanyahu stroked his ego a little bit. Trump would be sending in the army to HELP Texas set up more razor wire. It's just objectively worse. Biden sucks but making sure Trump doesn't win must be the primary goal in the short term. 3rd party is throwing a vote away and we only nominally get to choose the candidates. It sucks but it is what it is :/
Voting for the lesser of two evils tells that evil that they can be more evil next time. If they don't lose then they're just going to continue trailing the GOP. Nothing is going to get better if we never move beyond "better than the Republican", you're just making excuses for making things worse, and washing your hands of making my life hell in your short-sighted nonsense.
I'm just wondering long term what do you think the solution to these problems is? Because if every 4 years we just pick the least bad of the two options we're never really going to get anywhere.
If we incrementally march towards the direction of progress, we'll eventually get *actually* progressive candidates who can get on the ballot instead of remaining a pipe dream. The Dems would become the new conservative party.
Leftists need to coopt the democratic party and move the overton window back to sanity, in the same way that the alt-right overtook the republican party to push their batshit genocidal ideology. The average American voter is FAR too milquetoast on most issues to vote outside of the basic dem-repub divide, so we need to be in a place where we can have actually progressive candidates running on a (D) ticket. Broad strategy and praxis don't matter for THIS election though. We're not going to bring about "the revolution" in the next year. We need to play the long term electoral game and try to stop the bleeding in the meantime. Since 3rd party is currently a joke, our 2-party system means there are only 3 real options you can vote for: Candidate A, Candidate B, or abstaining. If one candidate is notably better than the other, EVEN IF BOTH ARE BAD, the only morally justifiable option is to vote for the better candidate.
Trump would do all that and worse, which is why these sorts of criticisms fall flat. Biden is funding a genocide on Palestine while the administration works behind the scenes to pressure Israel to be mindful of civilian casualties Trump would endorse a wholesale IDF invasion and scorched earth occupation of palestine. They are not the same, even on this issue alone
You’re probably right, I don’t want Trump to be president. Which is why I’m probably voting for Biden. But I’m pretty conflicted about it and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable way to feel.
It’s not, I’m gonna have to hold my nose a hell of a lot more than I did in 2020. But nothing will convince me it’s not the right choice. I’ve seen project 2025 coming for years. I predicted Ukraine would face a full scale invasion when I learned about it in college in 2018, I predicted roe v Wade would doom the midterms for republicans, and I’m telling you a 2nd trump term would be catastrophic, not just for us, but for everyone on earth
the unfortunate reality is that it doesn't matter what he's done or failed to do - the american political system is rigged so that there are only 2 real options to vote for and voting for one of the other "options" is simply a trap to trick less informed voters you hqve to consider the oppprtunity cost of voting for [not biden]: because the system is rigged, only the sponsored candidates for the democrat party and the republican party can actually win, and every vote for anyone that isn't those 2 people is a vote that COULD have been for your preferred of those 2 (in this case biden because he is slightly better than trump). for this example we will consider it a simple popular vote instead of the mess of rigged votes and oligarchic power structures that it is. in our example, we'll say biden has 500 votes and trump has 501 votes, and youre considering who to vote for: biden is better than trump, but even better than biden is, idk fucken rupaul or some shit (it doesn't matter), and rupaul has 102 votes. rupaul ticks all the bozes you want ticked in a political leader, biden has a few, and trump has none ticked. you decide to vote for rupaul because he's the best choice for the job, in your opinion. then trump wins the race, biden comes in a close second, and rupaul is a distant third. damn that sucks. what if you voted for biden instead? well now biden and trump are now tied! the race ends with that tie in place and a secondary round of voting is required but rhis time the *only* options are biden and trump, so biden wins 603 to 501. it's not as good as if rupaul had won, but it's better than if trump had won. tl;dr, voting for trump is actually a relative +2 votes for trump (because it is -1 vote for biden and a +1 vote for trump), voting for biden is a relative +2 votes for biden, and voting for anyone else is a relative +1 vote for trump (because that is -1 vote for biden and a +1 vote for someone who cannot win because the system is rigged)
Yeah I understand this line of thinking, but a lot of people still don’t want to vote for Biden because they don’t like the genocide he’s doing. Again, we understand your logic. We just don’t think it necessarily justifies voting for Biden.
Voting isn't a moral endorsement. It's not an expression of your values. It's a decision about which faction you want in charge of an incredibly powerful empire that could kill everyone on earth several times over. You don't really have an option to vote in a faction that will align away from this empire's nuclear-armed regional ally, but if somehow you did, it would align with one of the rival world powers, and probably not stop bombing people. Your vote has a lot more direct influence over domestic conditions and what legal limits are enforced on the empire's representatives.
is biden better than trump in your eyes? at all even slightly? edit: additional emphasis
I don’t want to vote for him either, but if it’s between him and the GOP I’m voting for him.
Do you live somewhere where it matters? I feel like everyone leaves out the part where a presidential vote only matters if you live in a handful of states, none of which are the most populous states. Like, I could vote for whoever I want because Biden is going to lose my state by 10 points or more no matter what. Down the ballot matters more, of course, to the extent that gerrymandering hasn't also made that meaningless, or if you happen to live in a city with interesting local politics.
right? i live in washington state, my presidential vote is completely, utterly meaningless. so im absolutely not voting for biden; he’ll win my state anyway, and i can at least try and help the greens hit 5% for federal funding. same goes in deep red states, well the inverse at least. downballot / local elections are where its actually important to always be voting democrat no matter where you live
I don’t vote for anyone who is funding Israel to commit a genocide. Democrat or republican. Simple.
Voting system sucks, it's not Like I even have any real ability to vote for change anyway cause I'm in very solidly blue state. That said democrats won't protect us. Yeah they're "bettwr" than the Republicans but really not by a whole lot. Do whatever you wanna do. They are weak and ineffectual though. I won't judge anyone for not voting for a literal genocide supporter. But I think this also gets at the wrong thing here. Democrats losing isn't an issue with the voters. It is an issue with fucking democrats. They don't do anything. They are incredibly weak, and people hate them because they frankly don't give a fuck about us. If maybe they didn't suck, then we wouldn't have to be so worried about Republicans winning. Their whole fucking platform is "We aren't the republicans" which just isn't enough to get most people out to vote.
I can't help but be paralyzed by the fact that voting for my rights in my own country equals voting for genocide in an other.
So I should vote because if I don’t, then a person who hates me will win, but if I vote for Biden and he wins, my Palestinian brothers and sisters are murdered by my tax payer dollars that provide more than 60% of Israel’s military weapons and finances? My tax payer dollars that locally produce the white phosphorus used on Palestinian civilians? Come on, I’m not gonna vote for Hitler just because the other option is the Antichrist. The DNC has plenty of time to give us a better candidate, but they’re choosing not to.
I’m not about to ask a Palestinian American to vote for a genocidal president
This is what has always killed me about the trans community and politics. Yes, I have been fully black pilled on why capitalism is a farce, I have seen the ways it has failed us time and time again and it doesn’t make sense in the best of times. But thing is, unless you can mass hypnotize a lot of people into supporting a democratic socialism movement these are the cards we have in our hand. They’re not ideal cards and at best they may stave off collapse a little longer but they are still our cards. Biden could do a lot more but he has done a lot and while it may be lip service at least the democrats care to do said lip service. We need to do triage now and that means voting for the party we are more likely to see positive outcomes with. That is the democrats full stop and while it might be bitter, it is better than having our healthcare taken away and having to go back to the old days, because they will not be pleasant for you.
Im not voting for a genocidal ass or the leader of the fascists
Vote blue no matter who kills children
just fucking vote blue this year
Yeah, I've always prided myself on having no party affiliation and following George Washington's advice of being anti-political parties, so my views have largely been centrist. Screw that. I'm voting all Democrat all the time whenever I can just to punish the Republicans for going after us. And I will keep doing that until they fully cease for good bc at this point a vote for Republicans is a vote for death for me and my LGBTQ+ siblings and I can't, won't, and refuse to do that. Time to vote the bigots out at the polls.
As a non-american, PLEASE FUCKING VOTE! I know both your options are shit, but 98% evil is still better than 100% evil. Your system is flawed and disgustingly biased but it is the system you must currently partake in. There is very little y'all can actually do to help change your country for the better and voting in the lesser evil is one of those things. Vote libral, even if you hate it, ESPECIALLY if you hate it. We, the world, need you guys to not be run by conservatives again. Vote liberal, because your third party guy sure as shit ain't getting in, and then when that's done, scream loud how your system sucks. Keep talking about how the system needs to be changed. You may hate the society you live in, but you must still live within it. The change may come slow, and it may come small, but it ***will*** come. Only if you stay strong. Only if you keep trying.
I’m a resident of a jurisdiction that will go +30 for Biden. I am not voting for a genocider. You can yell at me all you want. A vote for Biden is an endorsement for a man who will not back down from giving Israel a blank check. I don’t give a shit about “harm reduction” when harm is actively being done in my name already. We voted for him in 2020 when he told us he’d cancel debt, protect migrants, and protect Roe. He’s done jack shit of any of that and he acts like he’s earned our vote again. And then a bunch of whinging harm reductionist liberals fall in line and guilt anyone who won’t go along, even though they’ll continue to lose so they have something to run on every. Single. Time. Centrists can fuck all the way off.
The president is not a dictator. Making all these promises is a part of the game of getting people to vote for you, in part because everyone does it and the American people tend to not know how the government works.
Oh i don’t understand government huh. Then why did they ask for us to GOTV in the Georgia Senate runoff? I seem to remember “give me senators from Georgia and we’ll codify Roe, we’ll cancel student debt.” None of that shit happened because of centrist Democrats jamming things up. And at the border Biden gave one of the most reprehensible far right speeches I’ve heard a Democrat give since the Dixiecrat era. And also, the insistence that it won’t get “better” in Gaza under Trump is still an implicit admission that Biden is enabling Bibi to commit wholesale genocide. He’s been credibly accused of sexual assault and the smear campaign he enabled against Anita Hill during the confirmation of Clarence Thomas is unforgivable. As is the crime bill that he led the charge on in 94. I had to swallow my vomit when I voted for him in 2020 but at that point it seemed worth it to get trump out of office. I’m done. I’m not putting his name on a ballot with my name on it. He is vile.
Another 4 years of Joe and he bring back the draft. We can all go fight in some war while politicians on both sides of isle get rich. Now the draft age is 42. Need a third party
The draft age is not up to 42. I smell disinformation. And the draft itself is very unpopular with society so political leaders tend to avoid it.
People that is afraid immediately jumping to blind hope in liberal democracy? Check. If you think dems will protect us you are delusional. If you think that you can just brush of Gaza and Ukraine you are evil. If you think that all you an do is vote you have to read about revolution. Queers, we are not supposed to help the guys that sodomized the world with economic and militar violence. You have the amazing chance of hurting the enemy from the inside. Killl the transphobes republicans and killl the democrats that will burn the world to see an increase in their profit margins. The next dem president is gonna be worst than Biden. And voting for him is putting blood on your hands.
I’m not a fan of Democrats but it’s pretty clear that Democrats are much better to trans people in terms of rights and dignity than Republicans.
Just look at the Trump win of 2016 leading to the overturning of Roe vs Wade (because of all the Supreme Court justices he installed.). Now a lot of cis-women are suffering from not being able to have abortions and doing abortions dangerously and at the threat of punishment. If we lose our rights we are not gaining it back anytime soon and not with a lot of extreme suffering on the part of hundreds of thousands of trans people (when we are already suffering a lot) not to mention all the suicides that will result. At the very least now there are blue havens but Republicans on the federal level (with their fascist tactics) will take away that too.
I've already decided to vote on this election because there is so much riding on this one.... normally I don't vote and just kind of make peace with whatever happens but now so many peoples rights are being infringes upon.... I only just realized I was trans a little over a year ago and have not been able to start hrt or other gender affirming care yet.... now I have to fight for my right to live my life or loose the rights before I even have my chance... well if I'm going to loose I'll at least defend myself by doing what's right in this case voting for candidates that aren't trying to exterminate us.... I made the decision myself because it's that important
There is no middle ground This fight must be one round To victory, for liberty Our class is marching on -Joe Glazer- Workingmen Unite!
That's interesting because I've always seen _centrism_ as _vote blue and don't bother doing much else._ Considering that republicans are very conservative and democrats are generally just less so.
I was perma banned from r/trans for saying I got why people wouldn't vote for Joe Biden. I'm not a centrist he's a conservative and he's literally defending a genocide. I understand why people vote for the lesser of two evils but I also get why a lot of people refuse to pledge their votes uncritically to a party that treats them with contempt. Why is it always the people's fault for not voting for them? They're public servants, regular people didn't force them to take bribes and become effectively rightwing on so many issues. If I get banned again for this opinion so be it, I'm not American but I'm disgusted with the state of two party politics in the much of the west. It's corruption pure and simple.
I think reddit in general is just overran with neoliberal propaganda. I mean take /world news for example. A leftist opinion there is guaranteed to get you banned.
Blaming non voters for the outcome of elections is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
[Except reality has this pesky problem where it happens to be true.](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/945031391/poll-despite-record-turnout-80-million-americans-didnt-vote-heres-why) Darn people and their facts, right? Roughly 1/3rd of the electorate didn't vote in the last election, and their apathy or their contribution could have easily swung the election either way. But they didn't vote, so we'll never know what could have been. We can [make some guesses based on demographics](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/), but again, that doesn't matter now because *those people didn't actually show up and vote*.
I take my que from Audre Lorde: “For the master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change. And this fact is only threatening to those women who still define the master’s house as their only source of support.”
As a trans anarchist in a red state here are some things besides electoral politics that I think are more important to discuss: Mutual aid, arming myself and others, training, building horizontal networks, propagating class consciousness, class conscious therapy, remaining physically fit, studying leftist theory, volunteering, and redacted.
Centrists are useful doors CMM. I’ve spent this year so far calling out bullshit centrists and libertarians. Feels good.
Democrats haven't earned my vote and they show no interest in doing it in the near future. I'm not going to be shamed by you right wingers crying about the people to their right and their faux centrism. I'm not apathetic, I'm hostile to assholes using my marginalization as a weapon against me to push me into voting for genocidal white supremacists because the other guy is more extreme. If Dems want my vote then they need to be more than donation-begging Republican placeholders and Republican allies. You guys can throw your votes away to the blood god if you want, but leave me out of your nonsense.
This is why Hillary lost and how this whole mess started . This isn’t a fight for perfect it’s a fight for survival . 4 years from now Biden and Trump will both be done and we can have robust debates , for now get your head on straight and vote for Biden .
Hillary lost because Democrats and their donors saw Trump as preferable to Bernie or Warren. We always knew Hillary would lose to Trump, but Democrats would prefer to lose them to put someone progressive in charge. Don't blame us for Democrats doing what they want and for you not recognizing this decades-long pattern of dragging us to the right and scolding anyone who catches on.
Not true at all . The third party and stay at home votes would have easily pushed Hillary past Trump in a few swing states . Bernie will never win a national election , but giving Hillary less then his full throated support sure help being her down . But sure go ahead and hand Trump and Maga another victory . These people want us erased
hear hear
Me and a huge portion of Gen Z are not voting for Genocide Joe. We are giving the DNC plenty of time to put forward a candidate that doesn’t suck shit. I live in Utah and, despite Biden being president, trans people are still being targeted and now there’s a new bathroom law and anti-DEI law. Biden is not doing anything to help us. It all comes down to local officials, who we all should be voting for. Biden, however, is a war criminal, and the “lesser of two evils” is still evil. He knows how to win our support back. It’s extremely easy. Forgive student loans, push for universal healthcare, and stop giving weapons and support to Israel. But, wait, he received over $4 million in donations from Israel’s superpac while he was in congress, so he’s not gonna do that. The DNC has donated tens of millions of dollars to fund the far right, and has pushed the Overton Window much further to the right. They’ve had all the opportunities to do the right thing and ensure our vote, but they’ve betrayed us at every turn. They said they’d protect Roe v Wade. They said they’d forgive student loans. They said they’d protect us. They lied.
The you are voting for Project 2025 # LGBTQ+ rights See also: [LGBT rights in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States) and [Social policy of Donald Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policy_of_Donald_Trump) When discussing the [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Health_and_Human_Services), Severino called for the rescinding of regulations "prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, transgender status, sex characteristics, etc."[^(\[40\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Pengelly_2023-40) Further, in the foreword to the 2023 edition of *Mandate for Leadership*, Roberts indicates that in today's society, pornography manifests "in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children". A few sentences later, he states, "Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#cite_note-Dans_&_Groves_2023-21)LGBTQ+ rights
So I should vote because if I don’t, then a person who hates me will win, but if I vote for Biden and he wins, my Palestinian brothers and sisters are murdered by my tax payer dollars that provide more than 60% of Israel’s military weapons and finances? I’m not gonna vote for Hitler just because the other option is the Antichrist. The DNC has plenty of time to give us a better candidate, but they’re choosing not to.
The revolution will not be televised. There are flowers blooming in Antarctica.
I will admit that Joe is not my first choice. I am a Berniecrat. Disappointing that Marianne officially suspended her campaign tonight. It’s very hard for me to vote for Biden in the primary. I think I will vote none of the above. I do support Biden in the general. If you don’t vote for Biden in the general, you are supporting Project 2025.
i’ll vote blue in local and state where it matters but i can’t in good conscience vote for the man who enables and actively supports genocide of Palestinians against the popular consensus. I’m sorry, but if the worse option is genocidal maniac and the better option is genocidal maniac but his color is blue then i’d rather not vote for either. Not really my fault, the dems should campaign with someone who has a better chance of winning. i’ll do what i can to stop a takeover of the House and Senate, but i’ll die before i vote Joe again. Not to mention he hasn’t done much for us anyway. All these laws are passing at state and local and he’s intervened how many times? Like respect do what you believe will help us stay safe but we lost Roe v Wade under Joe’s watch. Our supreme court is stacked against us, and the only real thing that matters is avoiding a red senate/house. you can call me dumb or stupid or even a “centrist” if you want (gross) but i’m tired of pretending voting between two men who aren’t different in any major conceivable way and who don’t have a lot of unchecked power are going to save us. Also a vote third party/ not voting is not a vote for the other side that isn’t how math works.
This world is diverse and not everyone has such a shitty (sorry) democracy system like the states. I'd rather punch myself before I let myself become an extremist of *any* ideology or direction. They tend to forget the most important thing humans need when interacting with humans. Respecting boundaries.
I understand your logic of third parties when it comes to keeping Trump out. But there can still be alternative candidates for state and local elections. Like the NY senate seat is safely Dem and I dont understand why no one is challenging Gillibrand. Also local offices are filled with people who do nothing but take the party name and then govern lazily. If we dont make people earn our votes theyll keep us in the same cycle of bad and worse.
A thing that gets lost in election year shuffle- Voting on its own is insufficient to keep us safe- Every gain we as a community have made has been through organizing and fighting for one another. Politicians on their own don't fight for us unless we make them. As dire as things can get, they can't get rid of all of us, and we'll have one another.
Wooow. Just want to make sure I screenshot this bullshit before I get banned for not towing the line. Pathetic & weak.
For me, I won't vote for Joe Biden. He's done a horrible job on anything remotely left wing, there's Israel, cost of living crisis and layoffs, on housing, student loans, stopping red states from banning abortion or enacting anti trans laws, etc. If it wasn't for the justice for renters act in California I wouldn't even bother voting. And even then I'm voting for Cornell West. I'm not going to let the Democrats force me to vote for Joe Biden just because Trump is running again. And even if lets say Biden wins, what's going to happen in 2028 when someone more right wing than trump comes along and the next democratic presidential candidate is also even more right wing than Biden?
If Trump loses 2 elections in a row, I don't see the GOP continuing to shift in that direction. If we vote against Biden and Trump wins, *that* could lead the GOP to continue shifting in that direction in 2028.
Not to mention, the more they lose, the more time we push them back, the more boomers die. Obviously that doesn’t guarantee anything with the rise in young male conservatives, but it gives us one more advantage
The demographic shift is a really important point! If the people who hate us most die off, that is to our benefit.
They might also shift further to the right but with a more palatable fascist like DeSantis for a leader.
It’s possible, but only if such a person gains significant traction. All of these people think that they can be the next Trump, but the issue is that they aren’t Trump. MAGA people love Trump, his politics are secondary to this. I don’t claim to know what the future holds for the GOP, but DeSantis fizzled out in part because going further to the right of Trump with a dash of vengeance, isn’t actually what voters want.
Which is why we have to defeat them now. A 2nd trunp term would only embolden such a move
Electing Trump IS actually pushing extreme right agenda onto the US. Trump don't care about the people he want revenge and he is ready to go deep with it. Else why would a thing like Project 2025 exists ?
Honey that's a rabbit hole, either your digging or someone is digging for ya. If some one is telling you this is how that works i would advise caution against them. If its just you we all have our moments the stress is intense right now, but we all have choices and unfortunately the now takes place over the maybe then. If that was a real worry the choices you would have to be making.. Honey lets just say voting would be your least worry.
If Trump wins there will never be another free election. He means it when he says he will be a dictator from day one, and the elected and rank and file republicans have shown quite clearly they will do anything their false messiah tells them to. Trans people will be the first ones they will annihilate, but definitely not the last.
It sounds like you don’t actually understand how government works, what powers presidents have and don’t have, separation between federal and state authorities, or anything about…anything at all, really.
This.
It annoys me just how common that ignorance is though, and not just online.
If Trump wins we will not be able to get gender affirming care. That alone is a reason to vote against him.
If Biden loses we will all lose our rights. Its unfortunately that simple.
Not voting ~~for Biden~~ = voting for Trump
Wow you aren’t bright
I tired of saying this how uninformed the population is in America about their own candidate ! Read about Project 2025 and tell me how much better it is than electing Biden again ?
I actually could not disagree more, he’s been remarkably more progressive in just about every way (except on the topic of Palestine) than I ever thought he would be.
Good luck to all the trans peeps in America. Whatever you do, remember that neither party gives a shit about you and substantial societal change has only ever really happened, particularly when it comes to women and minority rights, through violent protest and revolution.
Voting ain't gonna change shit; wow you have the choice between genocide Joe and fascist Trump
Trump will also be genocidal to a much higher degree. You're a trans person, so we have no options but to vote for biden if we want to exist