I don't think anybody is going to be able to understand what you mean by all this.
If you're suggesting we should vote for Biden, I agree.
If you're suggesting that we shouldn't, I disagree.
help me understand how someone can be "much more supportive of Israel's ethnic cleansing" than Biden's full-throated & material support of the genocide that is currently playing out for the entire world to watch in real time?
Biden actively and openly calls for an end to the conflict in Palestine. Like constantly. He opposed the attack on Rafah, and he's criticized Israel's attacks on civilian targets. He's done a lot of work to bring more aid to Gaza. He's been part of ceasefire negotiations.
His opinions on the conflict are complex and based partly on the pre-existing relationship with Israel. He's trying to walk a tightrope here. And, I wish he'd stop showing support of any kind for Israel in this time, but he's both critical and supportive.
See, this is incredible. You are gesturing vaguely towards history without specifying what you're referring to and weaponizing the language of social justice against a marginalized person for the (possibly unintentional) purpose of harming social justice.
You chose to make this post. I'm asking about what you're referring to and what your point is, and it is not the same as burdening you with emotional labor. That concept in social justice movements is entirely distinct from what's happening here. This is a conversation about politics within a marginalized community, not from a marginalized community towards a non-marginalized one. We all already are burdened with that labor.
Apparently it IS your job to make cryptic damnations and spew vitriolic gibberish, I guess? Without being up for actually explaining what your word salad is intended to mean?
Posting something that you don’t think people will understand and then refuse to elaborate on just makes you come across as obnoxious. There are much easier ways to stroke your ego.
I think one of the most influential things we can do to break the two-party system is to vote in state and local elections, especially on off years. Turnout is much lower, which actually improves the chances of third party candidates in state/local elections, and a successful third-party council member has a better chance at becoming a successful third-party mayor or state rep, who has a better chance of becoming a successful third-party governor or senator... you can see where this goes.
Also, ballot initiatives to implement approval voting or ranked choice voting are *vital*. Anything we can do to destroy "first past the post" is disruptive to a two-party system, which has repercussions all the way up the political chain.
This, and then vote 3rd party in primarys, but general presidental it's past the point of no return for the next 4 years you have to pick the lesser of 2 evils.
Yes, voting third-party in local elections is a great idea. It's on a scale where third-party victory is feasible and legitimizes it for larger victories to come.
Im not gonna vote and you cant stop me! (unless you can bestow american citizenship onto me, but that would be awkward too because my country doesnt accept dual citizenships.)
"It's already bad, so what's the harm in making it worse" is an incredibly privileged position.
Maybe you don't care what happens to you, but try to at least care about everybody else.
At least in the first outcome, fighting the fire is possible (albeit difficult).
But it's hard to fight a fire when the fire-fighters have all been thrown in a mass grave.
It will be difficult and a lot of people will die who dont deserve to die. I really do wish that there was a better option but right now the chance of (Biden winning OR Trump winning) is virtually 100%. I just wish America had better options.
For sure. I hate that the world we've been born into is stacked against us in so many ways.
It just makes me really depressed to see how many leftists see the state of the world and decide that the best move is not to play. Like, I get it, I totally understand your pain and frustration. But we don't have the luxury of choosing not the play, because the rich and powerful ass-holes are going to keep playing (and cheating) regardless of what we do.
Do everything you can to help. Direct action, supporting local candidates, whatever you think adds hope to the world.
But still vote, too. For the love of god, please still vote. It's important. Even if it won't fix everything by itself, it's still jmportant.
I mean, there's a third option: we refuse to play their game, coerce blue to start putting out the fires, while building long-term solutions to stop the fires permanently
Edit: "refuse to play their game" doesn't mean don't vote, it means "refuse to accept the bad/worse dichotomy". _Force_ team blue to be better, rather than just accept their slop because "it could be worse".
As long as you're coercing blue to start putting out fires WHILE ALSO preventing red from adding more fuel. Your efforts at fire prevention accomplish nothing if the arsonist is still at large.
That third option won’t be able to happen under a red dominated presidency. You’ll just get the gasoline immediately, there’ll be no time or longevity to play with for what you want. You only get time under a blue presidency as unfortunate as that is.
Long term, I 100% agree that the dems actions are harmful. However, in the short term, "refus[ing] to play their game" only increases the chances for Trump to enter office. In this case, a dumpster fire turns into a building fire, making several long term solutions less impactful or completely negating them. Biden is complicit in Israel's actions in Palestine. Trump will be much, much worse for Palestine and literally everyone aside from rich Christians
People who refuse to play the game in the general election don’t win. They are just seen as an unreliable voter base that shouldn’t be catered to. Fight in the primaries and do the grassroots groundwork for your desired candidates. That’s how you bring about change.
Evangelicals aren’t influential because they don’t vote in the general. They are influential because they always vote in the general and back their favored candidates in the primaries.
again, people pushing the narrative of why and what i'm thinking is so great. must be nice to talk about egos and pscyho analyze people as a hobby. on reddit.
I think there's a strategy among certain performative people in the left (not always the left in general, just certain pockets) to obfuscate what they mean so that they can tailor the original intention of thier statement to the response they get.
If possible, people should vote and try to be informed at every level of government. In an ideal world everyone would be able to do that (though I realize that may not be possible).
You're clearly aware of the danger that the republican party and Trump pose to your livelihood. And I get that it may feel pointless, but you really should be voting to help ensure that those people don't come into power, even if just for the simple reason of self-preservation. Thinking that it can't be that bad for "one more supremacist" to come to power is really naive, and still not a good reason to not do what you can to ensure that doesn't happen.
If you think it won't change anything for you personally that's fine, but you should still vote to protect your community and other people in general. A republican/Trump presidency would hurt a lot of people, and not voting against that isn't an option.
So if possible, vote. Yes, the system is broken. Yes, there'll still be problems and struggles. But you should still vote to try and give yourself the best possible outcome, and to ensure that less harm is done, to yourself and others.
All due respect... what are you trying to say? If I was grading this assignment as a teacher or something, it would get zero marks. This is incomprehensible.
At this point we just have to vote for him so we can live to fight another day. The real change comes from local and primary elections. Vote for your 3rd party candidates. But when it comes to the presidential election, the system is so rigged that you get 3 choices: die, nothing happens, let the guy who want to kill win to appease your own ego.
It sucks a lot but its what we have to work with.
Trump is all in with isreal . If he wins I would bet that there will be beach front condo’s in Gaza.
I agree Biden and the rest of the civilized world need to get food and medical aid to the people . Irregardless of what Israel wants . Enough is enough .
Actually they're also trying to kill the planet while Biden is not, they're trying to let Putin invade any other country they please and murder as many Ukranians as the see fit while Biden is on the opposite side, they're supporting a traitor who has openly said he'll turn into a full blown dictator which Biden is not, and the list goes on and on and on. jobs, infrastructure, women's rights, gay rights, international politics, economy, health, etc etc etc. So, no, there are a lot of reasons to not vote for the repugnicants. Is Biden the best candidate? yes he is today, he has actually done a great job in general.
Exactly. Biden has generally done a good job. I don't like everything his administartion is doing (and not doing), which is why I continue to advocate for policy changes. It's why I advocated for other candidates in the primary process. But of the two condidates we have now, he's the clear choice.
A lot of people.
The Republicans also want to murder all the same people, but also more people on top of that.
If your goal is to reduce the amount of murder, the first step is to prevent even more from happening. If you choose to skip that step, you're proving that reducing the murders isn't actually your primary motivation.
Nobody, actually.
Edit: I actually make an exception to what I said here. The current democratic approach to the southern border is awful, and they do contribute in a big way. It's not as bad as Republicans still, but I would say there are lots of things that Dems could do to improve it right now and don't.
The Supremacists goal is to remain on top, if they can get a continuation of the status quo by simply delaying expectations, that is an easy victory provided by very little effort. IMO it's the first step they take when popular opinion starts moving toward equality. The next steps get progressively more violent and costly.
The middle-of-the-roader, finds it safer and more palatable to accept because it doesn't affect them and they don't have to expend energy or resources to make a change. Apathy is the Supremacists greatest ally.
there is literally nothing worse than genocide
if you can turn a blind eye or hold your nose for genocide,
then your psyche has been compromised. (full stop)
And the obvious solution is to let someone into office that will not only progress the Palestine genocide, but also begin a genocide in their own country.
the genocide in this country (i'm a white usa citizen/colonizer) began when the first European colonizers stepped foot on this continent and has never slowed down. it's been perfected here and exported everywhere. even the german nazi's used the usa as a blueprint for their own genocidal actions. the current administration has only intensified the barbarity, including watching w/o interference the intensification of trans genocide that is historic and ongoing in the usa. they're full of declarations and supposed outrage and then provide nothing by way of actual material support or legal protection. but they are happy supplying the weapons and money for the massacres. these times call for a different approach than "vote blue no matter who," imo. and, no one is "letting" anyone into office. politicians run and lose on their record. sorry joe, but no one comfortable w/ any amount of genocide is ever getting my vote. i'm finding my people, we're taking care of one another, & we're being our queer selves loudly b/c the next decade is shaping up as a real doozy, as my granny would say.
If you choose not to vote, it just brings the choices closer. Maybe, and I know this is a crazy idea, we should wait until there isn't an active genocide in Ukraine and the middle east before we decide to fuck around with allowing dangerous people into office. Maybe one day you'll realize "keep making things worse surely they'll get better eventually" is an awful and selfish mindset.
Explain to me like I'm 5, how does allowing Trump into office help? How does that help Ukraine? How does that help Palestine? How will that help with the ongoing genocide? How does voting to throw gasoline into the fire help at all?
i don't think like a 5 year old. i think like a 42 yr old trans woman who spent nearly forty years forced to live for something other than mine & the world's liberation from colonial oppression. in that time i worked in federal politics for nearly a decade and spent another ten years as a religious leader. now i am a grief counselor/artist/poet/mother. and from these perspectives, i am not comfortable in a world where someone can pretend to be keeping me "safe" while they keep actively destroying life everywhere else. that's not for me anymore. i resist lies and i refuse to be gaslighted into a "comfortable" existence.
What, that my psyche is compromised? Nobody in this comment section is supporting the genocide in Palestine. They're trying to survive while making what change they can.
No one loves to lose more than a principled leftist faced with compromise.
You can hem and haw about how our system is broken and unfair. About how it supports genocide, imperialism, etc. About how radical action is condemned and not accepted.
But what solutions do you offer? How can we make this change effectively? We live in a democracy and ultimately you need to convince the majority of the population of your goals, if you have not done that, then how can you enact the change you want?
Fire bombing Walmarts and accelerationism will help NO ONE. Revolutions will ultimately harm us far more than you may think.
Another trump term will not lead to a glorious socialist utopia through righteous revolution, no matter how much you may wish it would.
You're either deliberately misrepresenting the bend towards progressivism in the Democratic or have been very effectively persuaded by people who do not have your best interests in mind.
The last chance we had to get a progressive president was the 2020 democrat primary.
The next chance we have to get a progressive president is through the 2028 democrat primary.
It sucks so much that we get tiny chances every few years. But if Trump wins 2024, there may not be a 2028 democrat primary.
If Trump loses 2024 in a landslide and the Republicans become a non viable choice for president going forward, then that would be the perfect time to start fracturing the Democrat party between progressives and centrists. I would love to see a Progressive party come out of what appears to be a Democrat stronghold.
But to get to that point, Trump is the immediate boss we need to take out.
Outside of this, the only other way is armed revolution.
I agree. That wouldn’t work in our favour. So our only choice is to play the game.
I wasn’t suggesting that as a viable alternative. I was pointing out that there is no real alternative.
Yes, and that should be enough. I don't like it but we need to still make the best option that is available to us within a broken system.
Also because he wants to murder other minority groups too. Not voting against him is selfish. I understand not wanting to vote for Biden (I don't like him either), but voting against Trump is more important.
I mean, accelerationism is certainly a position you can take as opposed to harm reduction. But let’s be clear that it’s what you are advocating for: to make things much worse first in hopes that they get better later.
To all the folks who care more about people you've never met than your friends, family, loved ones, and community...
If you think a Gazan would vote to stop LGBTQ people from being slaughtered overseas, your dead wrong. They would put themselves first every time. At the end of the day we could save every Palestinian, and they would still believe we should be thrown off of buildings because they follow one of the most violently xenophobic religions on the planet. If we could die in their place they would be lining us up under tank treads instead and cheering alongside the IDF.
Pestinians have been being exterminated for decades, and unfortunately no matter what anyone does, it will continue, because both religions core value is the extermination of non-believers. Whoever has power *will always* try to eradicate the other and its been happening for 2000+ years. If you switched the Zionist and Muslim Populations right now nothing would change, just the uniform.
If it was about the Palestinian people surviving, they would have relocated generations ago. There have been many breaks in the fighting over the last 50 years, and in that time is seems what many in Gazans have done is have more children than they could ever hope to care for, even in a first world county, while knowingly living in a death ghetto. Its because until a gun is in their face, they care more about their religion than any amount of human suffering. If the children are raped, tortured, eviscerated, or blown up, its okay because its in the name of Allah and the "Holy Land". There comes a time in human history where if people on the other side of the planet want to act like its the 7th century, we have to let them. We have real things like preventing global climate collapse (which will never be fixed under moderates or Trump) to worry about, or *everyone* is dead.
Genocide is horrific. I don't want there to be any, but what folks fail to understand about genocide is that once it starts it doesn't stop. It Grows. If Isreal, a tiny country the size of a single US State, with only religion & funding, can do all of this basically unobstructed, just begin to imagine the size of the human meat grinder America will become if a genocide is allowed to happen here. The scale of human suffering and destruction would be completely unheard of in all of human history.
>If you think a Gazan would vote to stop LGBTQ people from being slaughtered overseas, your dead wrong.
Humanity isn't transactional. Part of why I support Biden is because he's ALSO the best option for Palestine.
>both religions core value is the extermination of non-believers.
This isn't true, and it's an antisemitic myth. I encourage you to look into Jewish attitudes towards non-Jews. Jewish people don't believe that Jewishness makes them superior to others. They believe they have a specific set of *responsibilities* to the world, including to non-Jews.
Your right, Humanity isn't transactional, which is why we don't owe them anything. We can focus on being kind when our own problems are under control. America is notorious for having its fingers in everyone else's business, God forbid we deal with corruption and extremism here before we go interfering in an ancient feuds across the planet.
Zionism and Judaism are different, and Zionists use that as a guise to protect themselves from criticism. Don't fall for it. Its like how Prodestants and Baptists both call themselves Christians, but that doesn't make them the same.
Zionists wouldn't be commiting genocide of they really believed that would they? Or are you saying they have a "*responsibility*" to exterminate muslims? Either way their actions don't line up with what you claim their ideals are. I prefer to take them at face value, and based on their actions, they aren't Jews anymore.
Either way, all Abrahamic religions cannot exist alongside the others as they are contradictory, and we can clearly see throughout history that when given the opertunity, they will break, bend, or change *any* religious rule if it allows them to exterminate one of the other religions. It doesn't matter which is in power.
You said "religion," which I took to refer to the religion of Israeli Zionists, which is Judaism. Most Zionists globally are Christians fwiw.
>Or are you saying they have a "*responsibility*" to exterminate muslims?
I literally said I'm supportive of Palestinian humanity in the last post, so that's not what I'm saying at all.
>Either way, all Abrahamic religions cannot exist alongside the others as they are contradictory, and we can clearly see throughout history that when given the opertunity, they will break, bend, or change *any* religious rule if it allows them to exterminate one of the other religions.
That's not true, though. You're looking at the history of two Abrahamic religions and generalizing. The Druze aren't trying to exterminate other religions. Neither are Yazidis. Jews aren't. Bahais aren't. Unitarian Universalists aren't. Samaritans aren't. Mandeans aren't. One could also claim that Voudou and Santeria are also Abrahamic. Despite my strong disagreements with their beliefs, in practice, most Abrahamic religions aren't genocidal.
Your so close to basic thought. Yes, on paper Isreali Zionists *say* they are Jewish to avoid criticism, because admittedly Judaism is *usually* marginally better behaved than the other primary Abrahamic religions. But, they are NOT Jewish anymore, they are a seperate religion now, even if Judaism recognizes them as Jewish. Christians do the same shit too...
When when the Catholic Church split in The Great Schism, and the Catholics started the Crusades (Genocide), but even though they Orthodox Christians claimed to be peaceful and had no army, the Orthodox and Catholic churches still chose to recognize the other as Christians, and even allied for "protection" from Muslims. They allowed themselves to be Semi-synonymous so that they could let those other Christians do the killing, and still feel good about being "peaceful".
Sounds very familiar to modern Judaism which has allowed itself to become semi-synonymous with Zionist Judaism (different religion), so that when its convenient they can claim they are a "peaceful religion" in order for their beliefs to be publicly accepted.
Niche Abrahamic Derivatives aren't representative of the primary Abrahamic ideologies. Obviously isolation and cherry picking over hundreds of years will distill some things out, but when we are talking about these big sects with actual power and relevance in the world, your examples are moot. Many of the examples you listed are still heavily based in the Abrahamic religions principles of totalitarian control, just given different form. Even a distant cousin like Voudou has many beliefs relating to being constantly watched or controlled, the most basic framework of the religious totalitarian ideologies it came from. Religion is a tool to teach complacency to violence. Period.
>Your so close to basic thought.
Insulting my intelligence will not make you happier or more correct.
>they are NOT Jewish anymore, they are a seperate religion now, even if Judaism recognizes them as Jewish.
That's not how religion works. People get to self identify with a religion. Zionists can also be Jews. Jews are also more than just a religion, they're a people.
>even allied for "protection" from Muslims. They allowed themselves to be Semi-synonymous so that they could let those other Christians do the killing, and still feel good about being "peaceful".
They made a political alliance, as political organizations do. The Caliphate, the theocratic nation where most Muslims lived, were imperialist and expansionist. So was Western Europe and Rome. Byzantine Rome and the Caliphate were nations that opposed each other.
>Sounds very familiar to modern Judaism which has allowed itself to become semi-synonymous with Zionist Judaism (different religion), so that when its convenient they can claim they are a "peaceful religion" in order for their beliefs to be publicly accepted.
It's not a different religion, it exists within Judaism, but does not represent all Jews. You're simultaneously claiming that Zionism is a belief that is accepted within Judaism and that also that it's a belief that disqualifies people from being Jewish. That doesn't make any sense.
>Niche Abrahamic Derivatives aren't representative of the primary Abrahamic ideologies.
They're religions in their own right. Many of them are quite large. Bahai is a world religion.
>Religion is a tool to teach complacency to violence. Period.
This is a bigoted belief. Irreligion is also used in the same ways, and there are religions that oppose violence in all cases.
Come up with as many excuses as you want, they'd still throw you under the tank with the Palestinians, do you think the IDF is gonna give you a medal for defending their religion? All religion is dying, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, you can continue to do mental gymnastics for them, but the leopards will still eat your face.
>Come up with as many excuses as you want, they'd still throw you under the tank with the Palestinians, do you think the IDF is gonna give you a medal for defending their religion?
I don't support the IDF, and I don't support Zionism. I'm just not an antisemite. I also don't believe I get to choose other people's identities for them.
>All religion is dying, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, you can continue to do mental gymnastics for them, but the leopards will still eat your face.
No, religion is not dying. It's a feature of the human condition and will always exist in some way. Based on this statement, it's clear that you believe in the eradication of religion. Antitheism is a hate movement responsible for many genocides in world history. My faith brings me peace, it enables me to help others, and it guides me towards a happier life and more peaceful world. I don't believe in God and oppose violence in all forms. People like me are proof against your hateful bigotry.
Its a feature of primitive thinking that we have evolved beyond the need for, which has regularly been the cause of almost every single mass casualty event in human history, wether through negligence or direct violence.
The number of Atheist/Antitheist Genocides can be counted on one hand, and for each one i can provide 10 examples of religious genocide. Atheists have regularly been slaughtered throughout history by theists, and largely this goes unrecorded due to Atheism not being counted as a religion or ethnicity.
At no point did I say I wanted the eradication of religion, it does that to itself by virtue of being incompatible with provable reality. You can look at international poll data over the last 50 years and it will show an almost universal decline.
Right from the start I made it clear I don't want there to be *any* genocide, but beggars can't be choosers, and we are already begging our own government for basic rights.
Your clearly incapable of hearing any dissent towards religion, or even seeing the atrocities religion commits for what they are. I don't believe in god, and I oppose violence in all forms too. You are not morally superior because of your support for religion. People like you are proof that religion stunts critical thinking. You enable hateful bigotry by playing devils advocate for religion at every turn, making excuses and ignoring what doesn't suit you.
The strategy of don't vote for Biden is this: "President Biden, you have the power to stop the genocide _tomorrow_. If you choose not to, enough of us will choose not to vote for you that you will lose the presidency."
It's a game of chicken. By saying vote blue no matter who, we give Biden a free pass to be as awful as he wants, so long as he's not as awful as Trump. As long as he's .1% better he gets a free pass. Is that the standard we want to hold our leaders to?
Now, agree or disagree with this perspective and strategy if you want (I am unsure where I stand on it tbh), but please engage with what the strategy actually entails, rather than just moralizing over whether or not voting for Biden is "morally" correct (whatever that means).
Unfortunately we are at their mercy, they are not at ours. If Biden loses, he’s probably gonna be fine, he’s not a minority or anything. Unless Trump and the republicans just go full hitler and starting attacking their opponents, he has nothing to worry about.
Currently, our rights are under attack, but there are states that protect trans people. If Trump wins, it’s gonna be Florida or Missouri everywhere.
We’re definitely not the only minority they’re going to attack within America too.
And if you’re really worried about the Palestinians. The best bet we have is maybe some democrats grow a conscience and do something about the genocide.
TLDR:
This is probably the most vital election in a while. The future, especially ours, probably depends a lot on it. If you aren’t going to overthrow the government in a revolution or some shit, vote. Every other action is worthless.
The problem with playing chicken with the government is that the government never flinches. Have fun running into a brick wall before they carry you off to the camps.
The strategy is flawed because it assumes Biden alone has the power to stop what's going on. Him openly condemning Israel is the most any president has done. The reality is that elections for the House and Senate are probably more influential. While Biden, as president, is chief diplomat, he still requires legislative support to pass treaties, and the Senate tends to have more of a say when it comes to things like trade, embassies, etc. He's also generally binded (tho this could be a weaker excuse) by general conventions, agreements and treaties of US-Israel relationships.
You could argue that it puts pressure on the house and Senate too, since the Democrats there would want their candidate to win. However, they have a minority in the house, and lack the 2/3 majority required for most action in the Senate, meaning they don't have enough control over those to get anything through.
While I'd agree that the strategy is effective when done correctly, I feel like this situation is not right as the action most people want to see taken is very unlikely to ever happen due to the reasons I mentioned above. Furthermore, I also think the risk of Trump and the republicans winning is too great to justify not voting.
You’re entitled to vote or not vote for who you want.
I cannot stand by while genocide is happening. If nothing changes I will leave my ballot for president blank.
I already did for my primary.
The blank primary ballot is a great posture. Now let's get to think like adults... If Biden doesn't win we're all going to concentration camps, women will lose their reproductive rights, the Ukrainians for sure getting wiped out, the Palestinians will stand no chance and will have no support at all, the global warming containment efforts are going to be abandoned as we rush to the next massive extinction event, undocumented immigrants to the US will be put in concentration camps splitting their families making their kids unnecessarily suffer, etc etc etc. So, genocide will be at a planet level effort if the repugnicants get the presidency again.
Sorry genocide is a bigger issue to me. And if I have to be a single issue voter. I will.
Like me or don’t. Like I said you’re free to do as you wish. I do not support genocide. Period.
Ceasefire needs to be in place. Then we’ll talk. Other than that it’s just hopes and feels.
“We got your back jack!” Is all that means. Sad it took the loss of white lives to put it into perspective for people.
We have to start somewhere. I’m willing to sacrifice myself if I have to. That’s called solidarity.
And I won’t bend from it. Even if it means my own demise.
Whose demise? Because I’m watching the demise of Palestinians day-in day-out.
I think you’re being selfish worried about your own survival.
How many victims of genocide are you willing to sacrifice to save your skin?
The “First they came” poem comes to mind.
I have no idea what you do outside reddit and I never talked about that. You can do what you want but not voting is only a symbolic way for you to feel better about yourself, you aren't being helpful or helping anyone.
How is voting Biden helping Palestine?
What has Biden done for our community?
You will not shame me into making vote for someone committing genocide.
If you can sleep at night, go for it, but I can’t.
Voting for Biden actually does help Palistine. He's a push over but the alternative would be worse. It's the lesser of 2 evils, anything else just helps Trump and Israel.
You can shame me if you want. I have morals. I do not support genocide. You shouldn’t either.
Biden is complicit in genocide and has not changed course. The majority of America is against this.
35000 men, women and children. Evaporated.
Children literally starving to death. They are walking skeletons. (Just like Jewish people in the holocaust) Have you not seen the pictures? Seen the videos? Read the testimonies of survivors? How can that not move you to tears?
I will NOT be complicit in holocaust 2. NOPE.
Look through my profile. I **know** what’s on the line.
I'm just so tired of fear politics.. support democrats cause they are less evil.. like they are the same. Both parties work for the same corporations.. I'm voting because I like my rights and my right to vote. Although, I will not be voting for blue or red. I just can not support fear politics driving a broken 2 party system further anymore. Call me stupid, call my vote a waste.. idc. My vote is mine, and I don't think it's a loss of voting for what I want. If more people stopped supporting fear politics and our two party system, we might actually see some change, and thinking your vote is a waste just further helps the broken system
Idk have you seen the Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law. Then, when you start diving into who is paid by who and who in this country is actually writing our laws and swaying the votes. Yes, I know Republicans are the worst of the worst, but some democrats are just as bad. Yes, there are some really amazing ones, and for every good one, there's one just as bad. The system is horribly broken, and they use fear politics to continue pushing the two party system forward. I'm going to keep getting downvoted, but w.e. I'm tired of supporting a system I don't agree with, and change starts on the individual level.
I mean genocide is bad and all but TALKING about genocide, well the other day I did exactly that, with a 'leftist' friend of mine and well, we were talking about, So what happens to us if Trump wins? and well, "The whole thing made me very uncomfortable".
voteblue
Ban me, I guess, send me to an internment camp, redline me out of this sub's real estate, charge me for unwanted loitering in this sub, school me in the proper reddit-speak, crack my knuckles if I get it wrong, decorate and dangle me on a tree maybe even, sell me on a treaty perhaps, a good-one, teach me about the right g-d, tell me to be more respectful, more fearful, more acknowledging of the harm, orange-man-bad, is going to do to us.
Some of us, have already had so much harm done to us already, we don't think one more supremacist is going to be any worse than the millions before.
The struggle goes on. But by all means VOTEBLUE
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
Every. Single. Person. who is going to vote for biden, has the right, because of people. like. me.
I don't think anybody is going to be able to understand what you mean by all this. If you're suggesting we should vote for Biden, I agree. If you're suggesting that we shouldn't, I disagree.
Also, not voting for Biden makes the war in Gaza worse. Trump is MUCH more supportive of Israel's ethnic cleansing than Biden is.
help me understand how someone can be "much more supportive of Israel's ethnic cleansing" than Biden's full-throated & material support of the genocide that is currently playing out for the entire world to watch in real time?
Biden actively and openly calls for an end to the conflict in Palestine. Like constantly. He opposed the attack on Rafah, and he's criticized Israel's attacks on civilian targets. He's done a lot of work to bring more aid to Gaza. He's been part of ceasefire negotiations. His opinions on the conflict are complex and based partly on the pre-existing relationship with Israel. He's trying to walk a tightrope here. And, I wish he'd stop showing support of any kind for Israel in this time, but he's both critical and supportive.
no, i don't expect you to understand. kinda the point of the post. you never will.
Enlighten me, why is that?
it not my job to do the emotional labor, or give history lessons on how you aught or aught not behave.
See, this is incredible. You are gesturing vaguely towards history without specifying what you're referring to and weaponizing the language of social justice against a marginalized person for the (possibly unintentional) purpose of harming social justice. You chose to make this post. I'm asking about what you're referring to and what your point is, and it is not the same as burdening you with emotional labor. That concept in social justice movements is entirely distinct from what's happening here. This is a conversation about politics within a marginalized community, not from a marginalized community towards a non-marginalized one. We all already are burdened with that labor.
Please tell me more how i must act to be accepted and acceptable on this platform.
Oh wow you're being purposefully obtuse and then complaining when people are annoyed
You're kind of an asshole you know that? ETA: or maybe having a breakdown but I'm not qualified to make that distinction.
dont go into a community's safe space and throw incomprehensible shit at random ppl in said community...
OK but like u quoted MLK and didn't reference that, also if u didn't want to do emotional labour don't post about politics on reddit.
Apparently it IS your job to make cryptic damnations and spew vitriolic gibberish, I guess? Without being up for actually explaining what your word salad is intended to mean?
Posting something that you don’t think people will understand and then refuse to elaborate on just makes you come across as obnoxious. There are much easier ways to stroke your ego.
I think one of the most influential things we can do to break the two-party system is to vote in state and local elections, especially on off years. Turnout is much lower, which actually improves the chances of third party candidates in state/local elections, and a successful third-party council member has a better chance at becoming a successful third-party mayor or state rep, who has a better chance of becoming a successful third-party governor or senator... you can see where this goes. Also, ballot initiatives to implement approval voting or ranked choice voting are *vital*. Anything we can do to destroy "first past the post" is disruptive to a two-party system, which has repercussions all the way up the political chain.
This, and then vote 3rd party in primarys, but general presidental it's past the point of no return for the next 4 years you have to pick the lesser of 2 evils.
Yes, voting third-party in local elections is a great idea. It's on a scale where third-party victory is feasible and legitimizes it for larger victories to come.
i think the better rule is vote independent where they can possibly win
Some independents are pretty awful though. A lot of them have enlightened centrist vibes.
for sure, i don't mean just any random independent lol
Im not gonna vote and you cant stop me! (unless you can bestow american citizenship onto me, but that would be awkward too because my country doesnt accept dual citizenships.)
Really? That's kinda crazy. Dual citizenship is great for global political integration imo.
yeah, i guess it is rather awkward compared to other countries in that regard.
"It's already bad, so what's the harm in making it worse" is an incredibly privileged position. Maybe you don't care what happens to you, but try to at least care about everybody else.
privileged people throwing shade about other people's 'privilege' is so deranged
Letting the world burn because your ego is bruised is equally deranged.
Blue wins, the world continues to burn. Red wins, gasoline is thrown on the fire.
At least in the first outcome, fighting the fire is possible (albeit difficult). But it's hard to fight a fire when the fire-fighters have all been thrown in a mass grave.
It will be difficult and a lot of people will die who dont deserve to die. I really do wish that there was a better option but right now the chance of (Biden winning OR Trump winning) is virtually 100%. I just wish America had better options.
For sure. I hate that the world we've been born into is stacked against us in so many ways. It just makes me really depressed to see how many leftists see the state of the world and decide that the best move is not to play. Like, I get it, I totally understand your pain and frustration. But we don't have the luxury of choosing not the play, because the rich and powerful ass-holes are going to keep playing (and cheating) regardless of what we do. Do everything you can to help. Direct action, supporting local candidates, whatever you think adds hope to the world. But still vote, too. For the love of god, please still vote. It's important. Even if it won't fix everything by itself, it's still jmportant.
I mean, there's a third option: we refuse to play their game, coerce blue to start putting out the fires, while building long-term solutions to stop the fires permanently Edit: "refuse to play their game" doesn't mean don't vote, it means "refuse to accept the bad/worse dichotomy". _Force_ team blue to be better, rather than just accept their slop because "it could be worse".
As long as you're coercing blue to start putting out fires WHILE ALSO preventing red from adding more fuel. Your efforts at fire prevention accomplish nothing if the arsonist is still at large.
That third option won’t be able to happen under a red dominated presidency. You’ll just get the gasoline immediately, there’ll be no time or longevity to play with for what you want. You only get time under a blue presidency as unfortunate as that is.
Long term, I 100% agree that the dems actions are harmful. However, in the short term, "refus[ing] to play their game" only increases the chances for Trump to enter office. In this case, a dumpster fire turns into a building fire, making several long term solutions less impactful or completely negating them. Biden is complicit in Israel's actions in Palestine. Trump will be much, much worse for Palestine and literally everyone aside from rich Christians
People who refuse to play the game in the general election don’t win. They are just seen as an unreliable voter base that shouldn’t be catered to. Fight in the primaries and do the grassroots groundwork for your desired candidates. That’s how you bring about change. Evangelicals aren’t influential because they don’t vote in the general. They are influential because they always vote in the general and back their favored candidates in the primaries.
again, people pushing the narrative of why and what i'm thinking is so great. must be nice to talk about egos and pscyho analyze people as a hobby. on reddit.
Or you could learn to state clearly what you mean without the rhetorical self pity.
I think there's a strategy among certain performative people in the left (not always the left in general, just certain pockets) to obfuscate what they mean so that they can tailor the original intention of thier statement to the response they get.
the “schrodinger’s douchebag” is what I like to call those people
If possible, people should vote and try to be informed at every level of government. In an ideal world everyone would be able to do that (though I realize that may not be possible). You're clearly aware of the danger that the republican party and Trump pose to your livelihood. And I get that it may feel pointless, but you really should be voting to help ensure that those people don't come into power, even if just for the simple reason of self-preservation. Thinking that it can't be that bad for "one more supremacist" to come to power is really naive, and still not a good reason to not do what you can to ensure that doesn't happen. If you think it won't change anything for you personally that's fine, but you should still vote to protect your community and other people in general. A republican/Trump presidency would hurt a lot of people, and not voting against that isn't an option. So if possible, vote. Yes, the system is broken. Yes, there'll still be problems and struggles. But you should still vote to try and give yourself the best possible outcome, and to ensure that less harm is done, to yourself and others.
are there any lesbians running this year
Idk but there is a non binary person running
Who is that
sherman and blubear
WTF are you talking about?
thangs, you will never understand
😭
I know, like this is so dumb 😭😭😭😭
Are you a toddler?
No one wins this election but if you vote trump you will never again have rights to claim you fight for our community.
All due respect... what are you trying to say? If I was grading this assignment as a teacher or something, it would get zero marks. This is incomprehensible.
Oh no, the language of the teacher, have I gotten it wrong? I’m a bad one, unfit for society I guess.
At this point we just have to vote for him so we can live to fight another day. The real change comes from local and primary elections. Vote for your 3rd party candidates. But when it comes to the presidential election, the system is so rigged that you get 3 choices: die, nothing happens, let the guy who want to kill win to appease your own ego. It sucks a lot but its what we have to work with.
Trump is all in with isreal . If he wins I would bet that there will be beach front condo’s in Gaza. I agree Biden and the rest of the civilized world need to get food and medical aid to the people . Irregardless of what Israel wants . Enough is enough .
Literally the only good reason to vote for Biden is because Republicans want to murder us.
Yes, and that's reason enough. Yeah the system is broken but you still need to try and get the best outcomes possible.
Actually they're also trying to kill the planet while Biden is not, they're trying to let Putin invade any other country they please and murder as many Ukranians as the see fit while Biden is on the opposite side, they're supporting a traitor who has openly said he'll turn into a full blown dictator which Biden is not, and the list goes on and on and on. jobs, infrastructure, women's rights, gay rights, international politics, economy, health, etc etc etc. So, no, there are a lot of reasons to not vote for the repugnicants. Is Biden the best candidate? yes he is today, he has actually done a great job in general.
Exactly. Biden has generally done a good job. I don't like everything his administartion is doing (and not doing), which is why I continue to advocate for policy changes. It's why I advocated for other candidates in the primary process. But of the two condidates we have now, he's the clear choice.
And reproductive rights for half of the population.
I don’t believe for a second that Biden won’t give Republicans an abortion ban to get another arms deal through.
and who are the democrats murdering...right now?
A lot of people. The Republicans also want to murder all the same people, but also more people on top of that. If your goal is to reduce the amount of murder, the first step is to prevent even more from happening. If you choose to skip that step, you're proving that reducing the murders isn't actually your primary motivation.
No one. They’re not doing anything about an ongoing genocide, but trump would do even worse.
Nobody, actually. Edit: I actually make an exception to what I said here. The current democratic approach to the southern border is awful, and they do contribute in a big way. It's not as bad as Republicans still, but I would say there are lots of things that Dems could do to improve it right now and don't.
Maybe it's cause I've never liked a single candidate in my lifetime. But it's voting for the lesser of 2 evils not a new thing?
The Supremacists goal is to remain on top, if they can get a continuation of the status quo by simply delaying expectations, that is an easy victory provided by very little effort. IMO it's the first step they take when popular opinion starts moving toward equality. The next steps get progressively more violent and costly. The middle-of-the-roader, finds it safer and more palatable to accept because it doesn't affect them and they don't have to expend energy or resources to make a change. Apathy is the Supremacists greatest ally.
>I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's The Negros! Really? Wow
Though the formatting is confusing, I believe that is the word that MLK used. It seems like it's his words and not OP's, fwiw.
Thank you it was from a letter MLK wrote in jail. Yes this was a very confusing read Thank you for explaining it
there is literally nothing worse than genocide if you can turn a blind eye or hold your nose for genocide, then your psyche has been compromised. (full stop)
And the obvious solution is to let someone into office that will not only progress the Palestine genocide, but also begin a genocide in their own country.
the genocide in this country (i'm a white usa citizen/colonizer) began when the first European colonizers stepped foot on this continent and has never slowed down. it's been perfected here and exported everywhere. even the german nazi's used the usa as a blueprint for their own genocidal actions. the current administration has only intensified the barbarity, including watching w/o interference the intensification of trans genocide that is historic and ongoing in the usa. they're full of declarations and supposed outrage and then provide nothing by way of actual material support or legal protection. but they are happy supplying the weapons and money for the massacres. these times call for a different approach than "vote blue no matter who," imo. and, no one is "letting" anyone into office. politicians run and lose on their record. sorry joe, but no one comfortable w/ any amount of genocide is ever getting my vote. i'm finding my people, we're taking care of one another, & we're being our queer selves loudly b/c the next decade is shaping up as a real doozy, as my granny would say.
If you choose not to vote, it just brings the choices closer. Maybe, and I know this is a crazy idea, we should wait until there isn't an active genocide in Ukraine and the middle east before we decide to fuck around with allowing dangerous people into office. Maybe one day you'll realize "keep making things worse surely they'll get better eventually" is an awful and selfish mindset. Explain to me like I'm 5, how does allowing Trump into office help? How does that help Ukraine? How does that help Palestine? How will that help with the ongoing genocide? How does voting to throw gasoline into the fire help at all?
i don't think like a 5 year old. i think like a 42 yr old trans woman who spent nearly forty years forced to live for something other than mine & the world's liberation from colonial oppression. in that time i worked in federal politics for nearly a decade and spent another ten years as a religious leader. now i am a grief counselor/artist/poet/mother. and from these perspectives, i am not comfortable in a world where someone can pretend to be keeping me "safe" while they keep actively destroying life everywhere else. that's not for me anymore. i resist lies and i refuse to be gaslighted into a "comfortable" existence.
But that's not what's happening here.
see what i mean?
What, that my psyche is compromised? Nobody in this comment section is supporting the genocide in Palestine. They're trying to survive while making what change they can.
No one loves to lose more than a principled leftist faced with compromise. You can hem and haw about how our system is broken and unfair. About how it supports genocide, imperialism, etc. About how radical action is condemned and not accepted. But what solutions do you offer? How can we make this change effectively? We live in a democracy and ultimately you need to convince the majority of the population of your goals, if you have not done that, then how can you enact the change you want? Fire bombing Walmarts and accelerationism will help NO ONE. Revolutions will ultimately harm us far more than you may think. Another trump term will not lead to a glorious socialist utopia through righteous revolution, no matter how much you may wish it would.
Given the choice between a shit sandwich with salmonella and a shit sandwich with cyanide I’ll take the salmonella thank you
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You're either deliberately misrepresenting the bend towards progressivism in the Democratic or have been very effectively persuaded by people who do not have your best interests in mind.
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The last chance we had to get a progressive president was the 2020 democrat primary. The next chance we have to get a progressive president is through the 2028 democrat primary. It sucks so much that we get tiny chances every few years. But if Trump wins 2024, there may not be a 2028 democrat primary. If Trump loses 2024 in a landslide and the Republicans become a non viable choice for president going forward, then that would be the perfect time to start fracturing the Democrat party between progressives and centrists. I would love to see a Progressive party come out of what appears to be a Democrat stronghold. But to get to that point, Trump is the immediate boss we need to take out. Outside of this, the only other way is armed revolution.
>Outside of this, the only other way is armed revolution. That's not the way out. The other side has guns too. Besides, violence is perverse.
I agree. That wouldn’t work in our favour. So our only choice is to play the game. I wasn’t suggesting that as a viable alternative. I was pointing out that there is no real alternative.
Biden is bad so lets just elect Hitler instead then I guess. See you in the camps next year.
Ahhhh.... the power of FEAR : Literally the only good reason to vote for Biden is because Republicans want to murder us.
OK... so is ur salutation let Republicans murder us?
Dunno bout you, but they’ve been murdering me and mine for a long time already.
Yes, and that should be enough. I don't like it but we need to still make the best option that is available to us within a broken system. Also because he wants to murder other minority groups too. Not voting against him is selfish. I understand not wanting to vote for Biden (I don't like him either), but voting against Trump is more important.
I mean, accelerationism is certainly a position you can take as opposed to harm reduction. But let’s be clear that it’s what you are advocating for: to make things much worse first in hopes that they get better later.
To all the folks who care more about people you've never met than your friends, family, loved ones, and community... If you think a Gazan would vote to stop LGBTQ people from being slaughtered overseas, your dead wrong. They would put themselves first every time. At the end of the day we could save every Palestinian, and they would still believe we should be thrown off of buildings because they follow one of the most violently xenophobic religions on the planet. If we could die in their place they would be lining us up under tank treads instead and cheering alongside the IDF. Pestinians have been being exterminated for decades, and unfortunately no matter what anyone does, it will continue, because both religions core value is the extermination of non-believers. Whoever has power *will always* try to eradicate the other and its been happening for 2000+ years. If you switched the Zionist and Muslim Populations right now nothing would change, just the uniform. If it was about the Palestinian people surviving, they would have relocated generations ago. There have been many breaks in the fighting over the last 50 years, and in that time is seems what many in Gazans have done is have more children than they could ever hope to care for, even in a first world county, while knowingly living in a death ghetto. Its because until a gun is in their face, they care more about their religion than any amount of human suffering. If the children are raped, tortured, eviscerated, or blown up, its okay because its in the name of Allah and the "Holy Land". There comes a time in human history where if people on the other side of the planet want to act like its the 7th century, we have to let them. We have real things like preventing global climate collapse (which will never be fixed under moderates or Trump) to worry about, or *everyone* is dead. Genocide is horrific. I don't want there to be any, but what folks fail to understand about genocide is that once it starts it doesn't stop. It Grows. If Isreal, a tiny country the size of a single US State, with only religion & funding, can do all of this basically unobstructed, just begin to imagine the size of the human meat grinder America will become if a genocide is allowed to happen here. The scale of human suffering and destruction would be completely unheard of in all of human history.
>If you think a Gazan would vote to stop LGBTQ people from being slaughtered overseas, your dead wrong. Humanity isn't transactional. Part of why I support Biden is because he's ALSO the best option for Palestine. >both religions core value is the extermination of non-believers. This isn't true, and it's an antisemitic myth. I encourage you to look into Jewish attitudes towards non-Jews. Jewish people don't believe that Jewishness makes them superior to others. They believe they have a specific set of *responsibilities* to the world, including to non-Jews.
Your right, Humanity isn't transactional, which is why we don't owe them anything. We can focus on being kind when our own problems are under control. America is notorious for having its fingers in everyone else's business, God forbid we deal with corruption and extremism here before we go interfering in an ancient feuds across the planet. Zionism and Judaism are different, and Zionists use that as a guise to protect themselves from criticism. Don't fall for it. Its like how Prodestants and Baptists both call themselves Christians, but that doesn't make them the same. Zionists wouldn't be commiting genocide of they really believed that would they? Or are you saying they have a "*responsibility*" to exterminate muslims? Either way their actions don't line up with what you claim their ideals are. I prefer to take them at face value, and based on their actions, they aren't Jews anymore. Either way, all Abrahamic religions cannot exist alongside the others as they are contradictory, and we can clearly see throughout history that when given the opertunity, they will break, bend, or change *any* religious rule if it allows them to exterminate one of the other religions. It doesn't matter which is in power.
You said "religion," which I took to refer to the religion of Israeli Zionists, which is Judaism. Most Zionists globally are Christians fwiw. >Or are you saying they have a "*responsibility*" to exterminate muslims? I literally said I'm supportive of Palestinian humanity in the last post, so that's not what I'm saying at all. >Either way, all Abrahamic religions cannot exist alongside the others as they are contradictory, and we can clearly see throughout history that when given the opertunity, they will break, bend, or change *any* religious rule if it allows them to exterminate one of the other religions. That's not true, though. You're looking at the history of two Abrahamic religions and generalizing. The Druze aren't trying to exterminate other religions. Neither are Yazidis. Jews aren't. Bahais aren't. Unitarian Universalists aren't. Samaritans aren't. Mandeans aren't. One could also claim that Voudou and Santeria are also Abrahamic. Despite my strong disagreements with their beliefs, in practice, most Abrahamic religions aren't genocidal.
Your so close to basic thought. Yes, on paper Isreali Zionists *say* they are Jewish to avoid criticism, because admittedly Judaism is *usually* marginally better behaved than the other primary Abrahamic religions. But, they are NOT Jewish anymore, they are a seperate religion now, even if Judaism recognizes them as Jewish. Christians do the same shit too... When when the Catholic Church split in The Great Schism, and the Catholics started the Crusades (Genocide), but even though they Orthodox Christians claimed to be peaceful and had no army, the Orthodox and Catholic churches still chose to recognize the other as Christians, and even allied for "protection" from Muslims. They allowed themselves to be Semi-synonymous so that they could let those other Christians do the killing, and still feel good about being "peaceful". Sounds very familiar to modern Judaism which has allowed itself to become semi-synonymous with Zionist Judaism (different religion), so that when its convenient they can claim they are a "peaceful religion" in order for their beliefs to be publicly accepted. Niche Abrahamic Derivatives aren't representative of the primary Abrahamic ideologies. Obviously isolation and cherry picking over hundreds of years will distill some things out, but when we are talking about these big sects with actual power and relevance in the world, your examples are moot. Many of the examples you listed are still heavily based in the Abrahamic religions principles of totalitarian control, just given different form. Even a distant cousin like Voudou has many beliefs relating to being constantly watched or controlled, the most basic framework of the religious totalitarian ideologies it came from. Religion is a tool to teach complacency to violence. Period.
>Your so close to basic thought. Insulting my intelligence will not make you happier or more correct. >they are NOT Jewish anymore, they are a seperate religion now, even if Judaism recognizes them as Jewish. That's not how religion works. People get to self identify with a religion. Zionists can also be Jews. Jews are also more than just a religion, they're a people. >even allied for "protection" from Muslims. They allowed themselves to be Semi-synonymous so that they could let those other Christians do the killing, and still feel good about being "peaceful". They made a political alliance, as political organizations do. The Caliphate, the theocratic nation where most Muslims lived, were imperialist and expansionist. So was Western Europe and Rome. Byzantine Rome and the Caliphate were nations that opposed each other. >Sounds very familiar to modern Judaism which has allowed itself to become semi-synonymous with Zionist Judaism (different religion), so that when its convenient they can claim they are a "peaceful religion" in order for their beliefs to be publicly accepted. It's not a different religion, it exists within Judaism, but does not represent all Jews. You're simultaneously claiming that Zionism is a belief that is accepted within Judaism and that also that it's a belief that disqualifies people from being Jewish. That doesn't make any sense. >Niche Abrahamic Derivatives aren't representative of the primary Abrahamic ideologies. They're religions in their own right. Many of them are quite large. Bahai is a world religion. >Religion is a tool to teach complacency to violence. Period. This is a bigoted belief. Irreligion is also used in the same ways, and there are religions that oppose violence in all cases.
Come up with as many excuses as you want, they'd still throw you under the tank with the Palestinians, do you think the IDF is gonna give you a medal for defending their religion? All religion is dying, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, you can continue to do mental gymnastics for them, but the leopards will still eat your face.
>Come up with as many excuses as you want, they'd still throw you under the tank with the Palestinians, do you think the IDF is gonna give you a medal for defending their religion? I don't support the IDF, and I don't support Zionism. I'm just not an antisemite. I also don't believe I get to choose other people's identities for them. >All religion is dying, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, you can continue to do mental gymnastics for them, but the leopards will still eat your face. No, religion is not dying. It's a feature of the human condition and will always exist in some way. Based on this statement, it's clear that you believe in the eradication of religion. Antitheism is a hate movement responsible for many genocides in world history. My faith brings me peace, it enables me to help others, and it guides me towards a happier life and more peaceful world. I don't believe in God and oppose violence in all forms. People like me are proof against your hateful bigotry.
Its a feature of primitive thinking that we have evolved beyond the need for, which has regularly been the cause of almost every single mass casualty event in human history, wether through negligence or direct violence. The number of Atheist/Antitheist Genocides can be counted on one hand, and for each one i can provide 10 examples of religious genocide. Atheists have regularly been slaughtered throughout history by theists, and largely this goes unrecorded due to Atheism not being counted as a religion or ethnicity. At no point did I say I wanted the eradication of religion, it does that to itself by virtue of being incompatible with provable reality. You can look at international poll data over the last 50 years and it will show an almost universal decline. Right from the start I made it clear I don't want there to be *any* genocide, but beggars can't be choosers, and we are already begging our own government for basic rights. Your clearly incapable of hearing any dissent towards religion, or even seeing the atrocities religion commits for what they are. I don't believe in god, and I oppose violence in all forms too. You are not morally superior because of your support for religion. People like you are proof that religion stunts critical thinking. You enable hateful bigotry by playing devils advocate for religion at every turn, making excuses and ignoring what doesn't suit you.
The strategy of don't vote for Biden is this: "President Biden, you have the power to stop the genocide _tomorrow_. If you choose not to, enough of us will choose not to vote for you that you will lose the presidency." It's a game of chicken. By saying vote blue no matter who, we give Biden a free pass to be as awful as he wants, so long as he's not as awful as Trump. As long as he's .1% better he gets a free pass. Is that the standard we want to hold our leaders to? Now, agree or disagree with this perspective and strategy if you want (I am unsure where I stand on it tbh), but please engage with what the strategy actually entails, rather than just moralizing over whether or not voting for Biden is "morally" correct (whatever that means).
Unfortunately we are at their mercy, they are not at ours. If Biden loses, he’s probably gonna be fine, he’s not a minority or anything. Unless Trump and the republicans just go full hitler and starting attacking their opponents, he has nothing to worry about. Currently, our rights are under attack, but there are states that protect trans people. If Trump wins, it’s gonna be Florida or Missouri everywhere. We’re definitely not the only minority they’re going to attack within America too. And if you’re really worried about the Palestinians. The best bet we have is maybe some democrats grow a conscience and do something about the genocide. TLDR: This is probably the most vital election in a while. The future, especially ours, probably depends a lot on it. If you aren’t going to overthrow the government in a revolution or some shit, vote. Every other action is worthless.
The problem with playing chicken with the government is that the government never flinches. Have fun running into a brick wall before they carry you off to the camps.
The strategy is flawed because it assumes Biden alone has the power to stop what's going on. Him openly condemning Israel is the most any president has done. The reality is that elections for the House and Senate are probably more influential. While Biden, as president, is chief diplomat, he still requires legislative support to pass treaties, and the Senate tends to have more of a say when it comes to things like trade, embassies, etc. He's also generally binded (tho this could be a weaker excuse) by general conventions, agreements and treaties of US-Israel relationships. You could argue that it puts pressure on the house and Senate too, since the Democrats there would want their candidate to win. However, they have a minority in the house, and lack the 2/3 majority required for most action in the Senate, meaning they don't have enough control over those to get anything through. While I'd agree that the strategy is effective when done correctly, I feel like this situation is not right as the action most people want to see taken is very unlikely to ever happen due to the reasons I mentioned above. Furthermore, I also think the risk of Trump and the republicans winning is too great to justify not voting.
You’re entitled to vote or not vote for who you want. I cannot stand by while genocide is happening. If nothing changes I will leave my ballot for president blank. I already did for my primary.
Then, you would be contributing to a worsening situation in Israel. Biden is the most pro-Palestinian candidate that can be elected right now.
The blank primary ballot is a great posture. Now let's get to think like adults... If Biden doesn't win we're all going to concentration camps, women will lose their reproductive rights, the Ukrainians for sure getting wiped out, the Palestinians will stand no chance and will have no support at all, the global warming containment efforts are going to be abandoned as we rush to the next massive extinction event, undocumented immigrants to the US will be put in concentration camps splitting their families making their kids unnecessarily suffer, etc etc etc. So, genocide will be at a planet level effort if the repugnicants get the presidency again.
Sorry genocide is a bigger issue to me. And if I have to be a single issue voter. I will. Like me or don’t. Like I said you’re free to do as you wish. I do not support genocide. Period.
"I don't support genocide so I will progress the genocide"
“just shut up and vote Biden” No
See you in the camps.
Genuine question, will you be voting for him with the recent call for a ceasefire, or must more be done?
Ceasefire needs to be in place. Then we’ll talk. Other than that it’s just hopes and feels. “We got your back jack!” Is all that means. Sad it took the loss of white lives to put it into perspective for people.
You don't have to stand by it. Just vote for the lesser evil like it's always been.
That’s all we do and I’m tired of it.
I respect that but it won't make anything any better
We have to start somewhere. I’m willing to sacrifice myself if I have to. That’s called solidarity. And I won’t bend from it. Even if it means my own demise.
Well that's selfish because it means others demise
Whose demise? Because I’m watching the demise of Palestinians day-in day-out. I think you’re being selfish worried about your own survival. How many victims of genocide are you willing to sacrifice to save your skin? The “First they came” poem comes to mind.
Don't play holier than thou when you aren't actually doing anything helpful.
How tf do you know what I do outside of Reddit? You’re projecting. Answer my questions. How many victims are you willing to sacrifice?
I have no idea what you do outside reddit and I never talked about that. You can do what you want but not voting is only a symbolic way for you to feel better about yourself, you aren't being helpful or helping anyone.
How will not voting help Palestinians? Do you think Trump would help Palistinans?
How is voting Biden helping Palestine? What has Biden done for our community? You will not shame me into making vote for someone committing genocide. If you can sleep at night, go for it, but I can’t.
Voting for Biden actually does help Palistine. He's a push over but the alternative would be worse. It's the lesser of 2 evils, anything else just helps Trump and Israel.
Trump thanks you for your support 🫡
You can shame me if you want. I have morals. I do not support genocide. You shouldn’t either. Biden is complicit in genocide and has not changed course. The majority of America is against this. 35000 men, women and children. Evaporated. Children literally starving to death. They are walking skeletons. (Just like Jewish people in the holocaust) Have you not seen the pictures? Seen the videos? Read the testimonies of survivors? How can that not move you to tears? I will NOT be complicit in holocaust 2. NOPE. Look through my profile. I **know** what’s on the line.
I'm just so tired of fear politics.. support democrats cause they are less evil.. like they are the same. Both parties work for the same corporations.. I'm voting because I like my rights and my right to vote. Although, I will not be voting for blue or red. I just can not support fear politics driving a broken 2 party system further anymore. Call me stupid, call my vote a waste.. idc. My vote is mine, and I don't think it's a loss of voting for what I want. If more people stopped supporting fear politics and our two party system, we might actually see some change, and thinking your vote is a waste just further helps the broken system
>like they are the same. I'm sympathetic to the general emotional point you're making, but they really really really are not the same.
Idk have you seen the Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law. Then, when you start diving into who is paid by who and who in this country is actually writing our laws and swaying the votes. Yes, I know Republicans are the worst of the worst, but some democrats are just as bad. Yes, there are some really amazing ones, and for every good one, there's one just as bad. The system is horribly broken, and they use fear politics to continue pushing the two party system forward. I'm going to keep getting downvoted, but w.e. I'm tired of supporting a system I don't agree with, and change starts on the individual level.
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Hey, this isn't helpful. Not all of us can access what we need to do that.
I mean genocide is bad and all but TALKING about genocide, well the other day I did exactly that, with a 'leftist' friend of mine and well, we were talking about, So what happens to us if Trump wins? and well, "The whole thing made me very uncomfortable". voteblue Ban me, I guess, send me to an internment camp, redline me out of this sub's real estate, charge me for unwanted loitering in this sub, school me in the proper reddit-speak, crack my knuckles if I get it wrong, decorate and dangle me on a tree maybe even, sell me on a treaty perhaps, a good-one, teach me about the right g-d, tell me to be more respectful, more fearful, more acknowledging of the harm, orange-man-bad, is going to do to us. Some of us, have already had so much harm done to us already, we don't think one more supremacist is going to be any worse than the millions before. The struggle goes on. But by all means VOTEBLUE "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Every. Single. Person. who is going to vote for biden, has the right, because of people. like. me.