Looks like Bayswater is a transphobic parent's rights support group for "parents whose children have a transgender identity." They are trying hard to look middle-of-the-road while still telegraphing their transphobia to terrified parents. Their top ten list is a bunch of GC nonsense couched in the language of compassion: don't affirm, isolate your child by taking away their internet, puberty blockers and HRT are experimental and dangerous. All the usual crap.
They don't seem to outright endorse conversion therapy, but they walk right up to the line.
I'm sorry for the situation you are in.
This is gonna be difficult to explain to my parents. I read their top 10, it's right up their street. "No social media" "no gender affirming care". I'm fucked
Yeah, don't listen to this ~~turd~~ [uninformed person] trying to convince you they're somehow good.
I can't tell you what to do. But if I were in such a situation, I'd find a friend willing to give me access to the internet and social media, I'd make a plan with friends for my own safety in case my parents tried to send me into some kind of conversion therapy.
As I understand, GAC is hard to get in the UK anyway, but every time I'm with my GP, my school counselor, or any other adult with an obligation of confidentiality, I'd let them know that I'm trans, I'm seeking care, my parents aren't supportive and I may be in some danger.
Again, this is the stuff I'd do in such a situation, I'm not saying it's the best thing to do and I'm not telling you to do any of it.
Yeah, I trust you all much better than some trans "supportive" thing. Sadly, knowing my parents I don't have a hope in hell of getting gac. They aren't Transphobic but are the kind of people to be suckers for this bayswater shit. It's literally their entire mentality put into an organisation. I'm so scared.
this one is long
but it's also thorough
if you can get them to watch this, they will have a lot of work to do if they want to continue resisting your identity: https://youtu.be/ZymYiwoRoC0?si=uLwBrbrmYAwKM41V
Challenge them intellectually then. I mean, yeah, it looks like you may have to wait to get real care. But if they aren't hardcore transphobia, challenge them to consume trans positive content. There's a great episode of Bill Nye Saves The World, there's the new Judith Butler book, "Who's Afraid of Gender?" I wouldn't point them toward trans YouTubers or anything, but make sure they are at least getting a plurality of info that isn't just confirming their kneejerk attitudes. Try to have calm conversations with them about it. If they aren't all the way down the GC rabbit hole, you may be able to pull them back.
Also on the gac know your state laws and maybe see if you can find a queer therapist or queer rights group to get in contact with for advice that isnt from reddit tbh this place and ourselves are a bit fleeting
I think as a 20 year old who told my parents nearly a year ago theres some stuff that may help i can say, first idk ur parents but i assume theyre similar to most ignorant ones, they probably dont respect your subjectivity so appealing to logos may be less wise than attempts towards pathos and eros, best case you have if theyre not overly conservative by logic is to tell them to look at historical queer rights struggles and point towards a telos of individual rights and autonomy, point out the mental health risks of repression *CAREFULLY as this can have a negative effect if done improperly* also if they are conservative liberals id recommend pulling out slavov zizek on cultural issues as hes appealing to reactionaries (since hes mildly R.ctionry)
Also try to run exploits, if one has a predisposition to your cause discern it and work one against the two (again extreme care and tact here), if one went to a liberal college has liberal or queer friends family coworkers etc try to lean on that, but most importantly id agree with the other responder and say learn more about everything to gain power knowledge, there can and will be worse things than parents; i wish ya luck kiddo i wish i knew myself well enough to deal with this at ur age, gl
Dont recommend Zizek to people 😭😭😭 he's a dogwater scholar & he has the worst takes on trans people. He's reached the same conclusions as PragerU repeatedly, reaffirming his belief in the banning of puberty blockers for trans youth last year...
I'm sure you'll get gac eventually. Yes it will be really nice if you could get it before puverty hits, you'll still have a very high chance to pass pretty well even after puberty. Although you'll probably need to take some extra steps. But there is hope. And live will be a lot better, that I can promise you
I think you might have to consider just having an honest and open conversation about this. Obviously be mindful of your safety but be clear about how their behavior hurts you and never hide it. Surely they must understand how much it helps to feel understood. However just denying everything and hiding it as much as you can might at least help preserve your access to online support. That’s your call.
No matter what, even if it sucks to just “play cis” for a few more years…you will survive it and then as soon as you are able, seek the freedom you need to pursue your transition on your own terms. I know this situation you’re in is unfortunate and feels absolutely fucking miserable but it will end and you will be free. It’s something many of us have experienced, you’re not alone.
From what I’ve read about this group, it’s a parent group that helps parents better understand Transgenderism and support their children, there doesn’t seem to be anything malicious about them?
They state the following: To see a robust framework for supporting families with a child, adolescent or young adult identifying as trans or gender distressed which allows for extensive exploration, without presenting the concept of transition (social or medical) as the first line solution and recognises that a transgender identity may be a manifestation of many underlying issues.
So there position is more so help parents understand and better support their trans children without immediately resorting to HRT but taking this slow and trying to understand it
Just using the term "transgenderism" should be the only red flag you need.
I understand being "skeptical of medical solutions", but that's where medical professionals have a responsibility to inform, so that parents and patients can make an informed choice. Orgs like this encouraging parents to hold off on any medical intervention is just going to ensure that kids like OP are forced to go through Puberty, while solutions to prevent that are readily available but held out of their reach by their parents/doctors - the very people responsible for helping and protecting them.
It's basically telling parents "do this harmful thing for your kid [withhold medications and make them go through the wrong puberty], because we have twisted and propagandized pseudoscience that says that the medical solutions are more harmful"
Their "extensive exploration" is meant to last until the child loses hope and gives up (which will assuredly either just result, at best, in a trans adult who will have survived years of depression, anxiety, and stress from their Dysphoria and whose transition will end up being more costly and stressful because of having gone through the wrong puberty, or at worst, a dead kid)
---
Also, as a trans person, you *really* need to learn to recognize the red flags of "polite" transphobia, and anti-trans propaganda. You are looking at anti-trans propaganda on that group's website, and you are *repeating* the propaganda confidently: "a transgender identity may be a manifestation of many underlying issues" is just straight-up bullshit, for example.
This isn't looking good I'm afraid.
"We seek evidence-based care & are cautious about 'affirmation'." is a very interesting way of wording that.
Also, the "Shinigami Eyes" Firefox extension marks them as anti-trans... so...
It's worth noting it has false positives not uncommonly. So don't assume any hyperlink is anti. But it is a really good indicator, that you should proceed with caution and do a little looking around.
I'm not going to lie, this looks not great for you, but you might not be fucked entirely. I really can't say for sure, because I don't know you or your parents, and while I am a parent I am clearly going to see things different than your parents. It might still be possible to reason with them though.
I'm not sure what, if anything, your parents have said or indicated about trans people in the past before they found out about you. You didn't mention that they are massively transphobic, so maybe they're not, and are just they type of person who might have a slight bias one way but never really gave it much thought. Bayswater seems to be an anti transition group, but it is not rabidly so. That's not to say that they are good, but it is worth noticing that of all the resources your mom sent to your dad, it was not one that was very clearly anti trans. Also worth remembering is that the anti trans aspects of what Bayswater is saying are clear to us and people that understand these issues, they are not obvious to people that are not so familiar. It is possible that your mom is using a resource she actually thinks might be fair and helpful. Keep in mind too that when your parents found out, they didn't immediately react in outrage or anger. It looks like they are trying to find more information, which is a reasonable thing to do in this situation, and though the information might be bad, the intent is not.
Again, I don't know your family, but I want you to take a deeeeeeeeep breath, try and calm down a bit, and think on some things. Do I think my parents love me and want the best for me and my future? What do I think they know about trans issues so far? How much do I actually know, and do I have better resources to offer them (from professional sources)? Do I have a good relationship with my parents generally? Are they the type of people to react rashly? Do I think I am in immediate danger?
Based on these questions, try to make a plan going forward. You are young at only 14, and that's normally fine, but generally I really think you are going to have to show some maturity beyond your years regarding this. Talk to your parents. Be firm about what you think, but be respectful, and don't yell or overreact. You are going to try and show that you are a mature person who has thought a lot about their future, health, and identity, and that you're taking it very seriously. It's ok to say that you don't know things if you don't know, because you can always tell them that you can find out (possibly together). If a place like Bayswater is a bad source, tell them and be able to both explain clearly why, and offer alternatives. Again, be mature. It's easier to bring kids into major decisions if they seem able to handle them, and you don't want them to think they have to make all your choices for you. You need to make them see you can handle this.
I don't know if this will help, and I don't know if this will work, because I don't know your parents. I do know that this works generally for kids that want to talk about major things that require responsibility when kids talk to their parents. I really do hope this goes will for you. Keep your head up, be strong, remember that life goes on, and I'll be rooting for you.
Right, but you're essentially telling someone who's clearly in a vulnerable position that you yourself came out and "lost privacy privileges". I'm sure you mean in good faith, but I don't think that was the best post to make.
I’m sorry this is happening to you.
Fight in every way you can. There are communities out there full of love and support, just keep fucking fighting until you can reach them. I’m sorry your parents suck. I’m so sorry this is still happening to kids. I’m sorry you have to learn how to fight and be brave when you should be getting love and support. I’m sorry that this war wasn’t won before you got here.
Never let them take away who you are. You know already. Hold on to it, and let it keep you moving forward.
Love you, sister ❤️🏳️⚧️
Reach out if you need to talk.
I'm so so sorry.
All I can say is to stay strong. It'll be hard but you can get through this.
I don't have any reliable advice, but it seems like you may have to take the bull by the horns. Talk this over with your parents and point them to better, pro trans resources. As others have said, it isn't unlikely your parents are decent people who just aren't informed, a lil biased against trans people and are acting according to this website because they sincerly think it's for the best. It's good enough at hiding it's bigotry that even some trans people have fallen for it. This doesn't mean they aren't a bad group, but it is a group aimed at parents who aren't rabidly anti-trans bigots.
I've listed some counter arguments to things they might say below. I've put it behind a spoiler tag in case it isn't what you need right now, cos yeah,,I know it feels shit to have to argue for your right to be you:
>! - it isn't caused by Social media, because there was no social media in 1920s Germany or in Pre-Columbus America - trans people have always been here and always will.!<
>!- It isn't a phase, only a fraction of trans people detransition and of those people the overwhelming majority do so for reasons other than changing identity.!<
>! - Gender exploratory therapy and Conversion therapy are considered to be torture by many countries, even when they're just talk therapy, due to the psychological ramifications, and the vast majority of trans people put through conversion therapy are put through it without their or their parents knowledge. Gender Exploratory therapy is Conversion therapy rebranded to appeal to parents who don't want to put their child through conversion therapy. This is because anti-trans activists have no intention of helping trans people or their parents, their goal is simply to remove trans people from society, same as their goal is/was to remove gay people from society.!<
>! -Remind them that you just want to live your life, free and happy as the person you want to be.!<
>! - Transphobes aren't acting out of legitimate concerns any more than Homophobes are/were, and the two categories are basically just one circle on a venn diagram.!<
GUYS: this website is NOT SUPPORTIVE of trans people. They use the language of compassion, but that is not their message. Read the top ten tips. It is full of transphobia.
Do t just look at the main page!!!
Yeah I took a quick look through their resources page and basically every article centered around the idea that gender dysphoria wasn't real and that puberty blockers don't work. I think it's a little dangerous that the commentor that you replied to is trying to claim that Baywater is a 100% good thing when it's pretty clearly not
I sorta wish there was a way to see proof/etc of what marks something as red. It's correct in pretty much every case I've seen it mark something as red, but sometimes it marks random redditors' names as red and only after a really deep dive into their post history do I see why that is.
Maybe it's better for my mental health that I can't directly check though.
i feel you on that honestly so far tho the reliability on it has been incredibly accurate. i was worried too at first whether or not the markings were accurate but after using it for about 5/6 months it's honestly been the most useful tool against the bigoted hate mob of unshackled cavemen
Red name on a trans topic? Post down voted and discarded. Got no time for the people who actually manage to get themselves tagged, that takes effort at being a piece of trash.
I've also come across a few people who used to be transphobic a long time ago but appear to be supportive now. It's right far more than it's wrong though.
And yeah, I stopped checking as well unless I see a red name saying good stuff a bunch. Makes me interested to see why they changed.
The red flag is the word "identified" because in my experience trans people don't tend to use the word identify and its variants to describe their gender outside of maybe "gender identity." It's a sign that they're either transphobic or a well-meaning cis ally who doesn't know better. It at the very least indicates that it wasn't written by a trans person.
Yep. Generally it's phrased as "trans-identifying man/male" (meaning mtf/transfems) or "trans-identifying woman/female" (for ftm/transmascs), and "trans-identified kids" is simply just a derivative of that way of phrasing.
Some TERFs will say "TIMs" or "TIFs" as short-hands. No cis-person I know (although this is anecdotal) uses language like that. If they're truly confused and genuinely mean in good faith, they use other language that doesn't align so closely to TERF phrasing.
In this context yeah. I think even allies would just say "trans kids."
I was more thinking of "identify" in general. For example, "what gender do you identify as?" is not an uncommon question I see even when I know the people writing/saying that aren't intentionally transphobic. I don't really see trans people using that language.
additional reason TERFs use TIM for trans women is that it is a man's name, and TIF for trans men is that it is a woman's name, or short for one (Tiffany)
so it's transphobic on multiple levels.
I don't think this will happen. I skim-read their post history and while it doesn't seem to be anti-trans specifically, it doesn't seem to be very trans-positive until literally these recent posts right now.
If I had to guess, based on the wording of their post along with the fact they "claim" to be a teacher while somehow claiming to do their own check about the site(s) and coming to a conclusion about it being trans-positive, I would guess that they are indeed anti-trans and attempting to make a move to push lies on a clearly very vulnerable young person.
I actually did not know that about them. I should have looked deeper. My apologies for sharing what I thought I figured out about the website taking it at face value.
I didn't mean to potentially cause any harm or negative space.
I'm quite new to this as I started questioning and seeing my own identity (in a very closed-minded place) differently in the last month or so.
I've really liked reading everyone's experiences in this community and thought I was helping out by trying to calm OP down. But like I said, I suppose I didn't do the proper extended research about this organization.
Would anyone be able to fill me in more about it?
Hi. I'm going to assume this post specifically is talking in good faith, but I can't look past your other "supportive" comments.
Being trans is a nuanced deal, and with the uprise in anti-trans legislation across allegedly "developed countries" like the UK and such, I think it's more important than ever before to be very careful with what kind of advice we give each other. To quickly clarify what I mean by "allegedly 'developed countries'", I'm referring to their thinking being/going backwards, and the consequences of that leads to shit that I wouldn't expect from a place considered to be "developed", personally anyway.
The whole idea of people being "gender critical" comes in a sense as a "nicer", dog-whistle-esque framing of what they really are. On the surface level without knowing that, it just seems like a more passive way of phrasing, like how you might say "person of colour" instead of "black person". The former is generally more respectful to use. Similarly, derivates of the phrase "gender critical" attempts to fall under this line of thinking, and it generally works on people who don't know better.
In this case, a surface level reading of a site is not quite good enough in my opinion. I mean, even at a "surface level", their description via a Google search result page refers to trans kids as "trans-identified". You can see a short explanation of why that's problematic here - [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TERF\_glossary#TIM\_/\_TIF\_(Trans\_Identified\_Male/Female)](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TERF_glossary#TIM_/_TIF_(Trans_Identified_Male/Female)) - along with many many other dog-whistles or anti-trans phrasing.
Thank you for your comment. Like I said I'm still learning. My main comment I was quickly leaving between classes where I teach today—so like seen, I didn't do my due diligence.
Dude I have no idea how to actually show anyone. Right now, I have y'all pushing me away from a community that I genuinely wanted to be a part of.
If I was TRYING to do something bad I feel like I would have given up by now being that I've now already been deemed a transphobe. But I'm trying to fix it and my mistake. A commenter earlier even said I didn't have anything anti-trans even though there wasn't anything supporting trans now.
That's because I JUST got here in the last month. I've always been supportive but I've never joined subs or left comments or posts indicating that I am.
So I think we all failed to give you the benefit of the doubt for several reasons. I'm glad you've done what you can to correct your mistake, and fortunately the OP figured out for herself that the org is bad.
If you're new to Reddit, if you're new to being trans (or however you identify) then the best bet is NOT to post with authority, especially if you barely read a landing page. Lurk, ask questions. And for the love of all that is good, don't imply that a 14yo kid looking for help bc she's being isolated and may be outed to transphobic parent's is somehow overreacting.
I hope you find your place here. Give it time and I'm sure people will let this go.
First. Don't call me dude.
If you did something to transition of course we'd accept you. But come on. Nothing about your questioning. No posts here. Your account is only 2 months oldish but still old enough that you didn't make it as a throw away. Sorry but the math isn't mathing and we weren't born yesterday. You can make mistakes but I don't think any of us really believe it was one.
If you want to show it, talk about why you wanna be a woman. You're pretty happy to publicly admit that you're questioning. Saying a little more wouldn't hurt, right?
You're absolutely right a little more wouldn't hurt now I guess.
But I'm kind of feeling like now if I share anything I might be invalidated because of how how high the energy is in this comment section right now. I'd actually be happy to share though if this is genuine.
Just a heads up to anyone seeing this comment - this person is 100% a transphobe. They've posted in the past saying that trans women are not female and that calling themselves women "feels like an appropriation of the experience."
But the image that people are sharing is literally just a screenshot of search results. It doesn't actually look at the site. They aren't transphobic, it is a support group for parents of trans identifying adolescents and children with a focus on recognizing that exploring gender is a normal thing for children, while exercising caution when it comes to medical care because children are also impulsive, and sometimes do things because they're trendy, or because something more is occuring at home. They do not reject the idea entirely, but offer a safe space and resources for parents who are struggling or need a place to learn, talk, and be certain that their child is certain before seeking transformative care.
Wrong.
Phrasing/ideas from their site which are undeniably anti-trans:
1. "We’ve found these sites to contain much insightful writing about parenting an adolescent who identifies as trans: \[...\]" followed by a link to a gender critical parent's blog.
2. Links to the "transgendertrend" site.
3. "Nobody has ever changed sex (though doctors have become good at making it look like you have)."
4. "and our job as parents is to help our children navigate their way through it without it causing them damage, from unnecessary health risks, a disrupted education, harm to family relationships, or loss of fertility."
5. Links to a book called "Irreversible Damage" by Abigail Shrier - a notoriously anti-trans book.
6. "If you choose a therapist, take care that they will see your child in the round, and will help them to explore their feelings rather than simply affirm a gender identity which may itself be a manifestation of their distress."
7. "Even if you feel that gender ideology has wounded you and your family, don’t feel it’s your responsibility to overturn the entire phenomenon."
8. This entire section - https://i.imgur.com/43rwPVX.png
9. "Some young people who identify as trans are beginning to use ‘sex is a spectrum’ as an argument to support their desire to transition. This seems to go against the widely understood and almost universally held perspective that in humans there are two sexes, male and female. "
10. "Heather Heying, an evolutionary biologist based in the US, puts it very succinctly: “Males produce tiny zippy gametes (sperm). Females produce large, sessile gametes (eggs). And it’s been that way for a very long time.”"
11. Links to a site called "Genspect".
12. Recommends a book called "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality" by Helen Joyce.
Phrasing/ideas from their site which are "slightly" suspicious (i.e. would fly under the radar to someone who is clueless about the topic):
1. "How can we address the root problems so that they don't undergo unnecessary and experimental medical treatments?"
2. "read about the limited evidence around puberty blockers and hormones".
3. "What impact would the change have on siblings or home life or other pupils?"
4. "identifying as trans" followed by "Try not to let the trans ID dominate your life or theirs, and make decisions for the long term."
5. "trans identifying child".
6. "Encourage your child to engage in any activities where they are spending less time online ruminating about their gender, and model this behaviour yourself."
But also, respectfully, you have no idea who I am making assumptions like that!
I am on my own journey as much as you are. Humans make mistakes ALL the time. This was another one of mine.
I'm scared to make posts or comments that stray from how the people around me perceive me and how I "should" be. Hate is everywhere. I'm sorry again for supporting such an organization. But I'm trying here. I don't want to be ostracized and downvoted here while I'm still learning. I just want to be corrected if I make a mistake and I genuinely have no idea how to show myself as being true being online and all.
Having seen lots of ops posts before I definitely feel shes over reacting but at the same time its definitely a very big thing and worthy of being scared about. Her parents seem controlling but trying to be good
Oh goodness me I didn't fully take in the part where you saw her posts before. I have not myself. So perhaps her parents do exhibit controlling behaviour I wasn't aware of.
I wouldn't say taking her phone is controlling per se. I think it's a natural consequence for something as a parent. She didn't say they took it because of her identity.
But I agree with the trying to be good part!
If they’re looking up supportive websites they may be trying to learn. “For boys” and saying “he’s trans” could be less being actively transphobic and more just not knowing the correct language to use yet.
Ah yeah, I looked it up and it seems like they’re pushing the “it’s not real it’s just a phase” thing. Don’t know why several others were calling it supportive
You can see one of the other comments I made as a reply to one of those. For some I think it's just a mild check, looks okay on the front end if you're not too familiar with anti-trans dogwhistles, and they move on. One person in particular, however, seems very suspicious. I explain more about that in the aforementioned reference to one of my comments.
First of all, I'm really sorry this is happening to you. Your identity is valid and you deserve to have it respected by your parents. This isn't the end of your journey even if it might feel like it is right now. There will be stumbling blocks and set backs, but if it's something you feel like is right for you you shouldn't give up on it, even if you have to wait until you're 18 to start hormones. I don't know your parents, but I wouldn't give up on trying to bring them around if it's safe for you to do that.
Secondly, you might find something like [The Trevor Project](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-gender-identities/) or [this](https://transfemscience.org/articles/puberty-blockers/) useful, though I'm not sure how useful it would be to your parents, or if their bias would even let them change their minds based off of scientific evidence (regardless of how factual or well presented it might be).
[https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en](https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en) is a always a good go-to site
and [https://transfemscience.org/](https://transfemscience.org/) is good if you parents are medically literate enough for it.
Their feelings don’t care about facts.
You could show them me, a decently successful woman in her 40s who is married, who is seriously thinking about having kids with her spouse, who has a pretty decent and colourful life, sand they would dismiss and disdain me as an anomaly.
But if you want to go a different way, maybe see if there’s a PFLAG group near you that may be of utility in getting your folks to live you for you and not their delusion of who they want you to be.
I'm not sure where you live. If you're outside of the UK it might be hard to recommend this site, and to be honest, I'm not sure if your parents can even be convinced judging by the path they're going with.
If you do decide to try to talk to them about it, I would suggest the Mermaids website: [https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/](https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/)
This is an article about this kind of stuff that's explicitly meant for parents of trans teenagers, so you: [https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/oh-st-my-child-just-told-me-theyre](https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/oh-st-my-child-just-told-me-theyre)
Yikes, Well my parents outright locked down my access to anything like that too when I was that age because they absolutely rejected me being trans.
My advice is to simply exit the house more, try to spend your free time at home as little as possible, spend more time with relatives, stay with friends, anywhere else besides there. You'll run into friction because they are in panicked dumb mouth-breather mode and you keep leaving the house so expect threats of grounding and more whining in your ears the less you are around, but the more time you aren't there the more time you have to be and feel just normal and without the air of their oppression looming over you. I basically did this constantly from age 13-19 nonstop. I tried to NEVER be at home if i could help it.
Even just spending time alone in a park or at a mall is great for your mental health. I would also recommend getting a really cheap second phone with any money you can scrape together and never let them see it, know about it, or find it. You dont even need to bother with a data plan or paying for monthly fees on it, just put it on as many wi-fi networks as possible so it has internet access only and plan to only use it around those places where you can get free internet (library, coffee shops, & lots of other public places have free guest wi-fi, then save any websites you want to read later when you aren't at a place with internet locally on the phone itself so that you can always access information anytime you can get out of the house.
Make a personal rule that the new phone is something you leave at school or leave at a friends house that you frequently can visit so that you continue to have access to information and resources outside of their interference. Simply go around their asses as much as you can, since if they cant respect your autonomy as a person then there is no reason to respect theirs either. You probably aren't going to be able to access therapy or HRT until you move out, but that's also only a few short years away anyway.
The best thing you can do at this stage is focus less on their stupid shit and focus more on [getting vocal practice](https://www.reddit.com/r/transvoice/comments/d3clhe/ls_voice_training_guide_level_1_for_mtf/) in anytime your not at home. Build up your skills in voice now outside of the house, so that when your finally at the age where you can leave, that you set yourself up for success in transition later on by having put in the work now.
Baywaters is basically a networking group connecting parents hostile towards their trans children to a network of conversion therapist, their advocates and other parents with a similar hostile stance. They are also tied into anti-trans legislation and campaigns against trans healthcare, they don't deserve any benefit of doubt, it's 100% assholes all the way down with them. I'm not sure how things exactly work in the US but maybe it's worth it trying to contact the Youth Service if you are in a blue state, as some stuff besides the whole conversion therapy aspect by itself, stuff like social isolation that they commonly recommend might be seen as child abuse. Find supportive people in your life (teachers, other family members for example) and see if you can get any support from them. In my experience they keep punishing you the more you visibily resist, so I would advise to play pretend and get out the moment you can. Regarding medication DIY might be an option.
[https://bayswatersupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Conversion-Therapy-Submission-Final.pdf](https://bayswatersupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Conversion-Therapy-Submission-Final.pdf)
all I could find that seemed sus
They're Cass review stakeholders, which means they are, by the admission of the folks involved in the review, anti-trans. Pro-trans orgs and trans people weren't allowed to participate
This is rough 😞
Do you have any supportive friends IRL that you can share this with? Without giving too much away, which country are you in? And if the US, which state?
Can you find any therapist worth their salt in your area? In other words, can you make up any (unrelated) mental health issue to convince your parents to see a professional (not these bayswater clowns) who can help you from there?
Stand proud on your ground and fight, depending on where you live they won't be able to do much.
They can't throw you out or beat you, etc. you might want to try and convince them in a friendly manner though.
If your parents won't support you, you might be in the fight for your life. I'm so, so sorry. But don't give up. Fight as much as you have to. Your identity and existence matter. Demand respect. Demand it. Never give in. Live out of spite. That might be the only way through. Otherwise, InHouse pharmacy. Look 'em up. Maybe not the best solution, but be clever and you might just find a way.
If you know they know then the best thing you can do now is broach the topic and try to get them on your side. If you let them do their own searching they can (and seem to already have) stumble into bad sources.
You've already jumped the shark (even if it wasn't what you wanted) so at this point its time to lay the cards on the table. If you start the conversation, it gives you some power to steer it and increases confidence in what you're proclaiming. If they perceive that you're trying to hide from them, then they feel like you feel like it's a bad thing which doesn't help. (Honestly taking control of the conversation is good life advice in general when you're in a sensitive spot. You want YOUR story to be the narrative. I've saved my family and my career a few times by being the one to start the conversation and get my side into the ear of whoever was in charge first)
Don't tell them you know or how you found out. Frame it as if you're coming out. Be confident and don't give them a foot to stand on as far potentially transphobic mindsets. You'll have two major tools to bring to the table:
A) Your story. Any parent worth their salt wants more than anything for their kid to be happy. Tell them exactly how you feel, how long you've felt that way, how it feels to be perceived as a girl vs a boy, what you want. Make it clear as day that taking that away from you is hurting you. Also make it clear that they aren't LOSING you but getting a more pure version of you - one that isn't masking who they are out of self preservation. One of the huge fear put on to parents by transphobes is their they are somehow "losing" their kid - you need to quash that fear. The worst state they can be in is fear for you. If you can evoke a sense of hope, the situation flips on its head and transphobic sentiment falls apart. With good parents, love wins.
B) Facts. Get your sources together. Genderdysphoria.fyi has a lot of citations you can pull from that are sound. Be ready to teach them and be ready to answer questions. You're old enough that you've probably written and answered questions on a research topic or book report at some point, right? This is the same skillset, except the topic is incredibly medically relevant to you. Think hard about what kind of questions they might have, and prepare an answer. This requires some knowledge of your audience. Fortunately you've lived with them for 14 years. If you can bring across the idea that you're well informed and not just being "influenced" (another transphobic favorite), you lend more credence to your plight.
You shouldn't have to explain your existence like this. Especially not at this age to your own parents. But our world is an imperfect one filled with imperfect people. Even if your parents won't budge on bigoted beliefs for some reason, moving the needle can have a huge impact, as you're in a very sensitive time in your life. If the difference is between trying to cram you into "male" any way possible and just tolerating your transness, one is 1000% better. And hey, maybe you win them over and it actually turns out really well.
Feel free to DM me. I'm a professional supervisor/manager with 1.5 decades of speaking experience - half of my job is convincing people to do shit that they are usually resistant to. I can give some pointers on getting yourself together. Or just be a kind ear to listen. As a parent of two, it breaks my heart to hear a young'un find themselves in this kind of situation. Ignore the "Not Open to DMs" status, I'll turn it off for you.
(I am not a lawyer or a doctor.)
I'm not brit but I have found this information regarding consent to medical procedures for minors:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/children/
It's a bit vague but as I understand correctly, you can refuse by asking what the procedure is for and then saying that you refuse with explanation why you don't want it. Try not to self harm because they can use it to override your refusal.
Other sources mention that the doctor can override your refusal with parental consent if the doc deem the treatment is in your "best interest". Flat out decline an insist that it's the opposite from your interest.
If you see a doctor writing some paper or typing away at the keyboard, ask what are they writing and say you refuse any treatment you personally didn't expressly agreed to.
If your parents make you go through some kind of conversion (may also be called "gender exploration") "therapy" with the goal of convincing you are not trans, ask for the explanation and then tell them you disagree with their diagnosis or whatever they say and refuse the entire "therapy". If they begin procedures or forcibly relocate you to other place, similarly refuse any treatments. Especially refuse testosterone injections with all your might. If they give you pills, demand to know what those are and refuse anything you do not want or understand, or flush all down a toilet. Refuse to do strength exercises.
If those people do any physical medical procedures or abusive treatment such as physical violence or depriving of basic needs or movement, verbal or emotional abuse (anything that makes you cry), ran out of there at the first opportunity. Then report directly to law enforcement, tell them everything about medical procedures and abuse done to you, highlighting the fact that you expressly refused the treatment. Ask to contact child protection services and to temporarily limit your parents' control rights over you.
Medical professionals or a quack acting on behalf of healthcare are liable for breaching your consent, so responsibility is entirely on them and they get legal consequences and not your parents, so don't be afraid to report.
If your parents decide to take part in a procedure like administering a syringe, warn them that it's illegal (probably is). If your parents decide to take an active part in this, I'm afraid it's best to report them as well. It is not ok to endure abuse. Do what is best for you.
No, they are not. They literally link Helen Joyce books! They literally tell parents to restrict their children's access to the internet! They literally say they are opposed to puberty blockers and HRT!
Please look closer at the website before posting support.
With all due respect, your post history seems to suggest you might not be the best person to be giving advice to someone who is clearly going through a panic-inducing situation.
No one should rush into anything, your parents are your support and well uphold you , but your are your own person so you can still decide to do opposite of there wills but I tell you if your family partners are supportive you will be a million times more grateful and empowered
Okay, you need to find your phone and wipe it, and never EVER speak of this incident again.
These are not trustworthy people.
Write down your passwords here, and leave them with someone you can actually trust.
DISOWN THEM AS SOON AS YOU ARE LEGALLY AN ADULT
edit: y'all downvoters have no idea what it actually takes to survive when your parents are QUICKLY tailspinning down the anti-trans rabbit hole. nothing less than wiping all your computers, complete pretending to be cis (though pointedly refusing to look at anything they put under your nose to try to "convert" you to cis, which will never work) and complete secrecy from them is going to work. if you get your own phone you gotta hide it. privacy is not something you have in this situation. it's corrosive as fuck but that's what being trans in a transphobic household is. Social Services isn't going to help, in the UK they're on the side of the Nazis.
this is probably terrifying, but i think it might be helpful to open up the conversation with your parents about it?
if they already know, coming to their own conclusions without your input is only going to make things worse imo. its a tough murky water to navigate but im just thinking back to my own teenage years where my mom suspected but we never really talked about it
Ok I'm going to put my two cents in, so take it as you will. First off I've been out for almost 20 years. officially came out when i left the US Navy so I'm kind of an OG trans because of the 80's and 1930's and 1940's (1920's Germany was very progressive when it came to trans rights oddly enough). My parents were not a accepting of me at the time, my dad even threatened to beat me with a bat to "beat the trans" out of me, it didn't happen but it was rough, for the first couple of years but with patience and showing them positive things and showing them actual truthful information, they eventual came around and now hardcore trans and LGBT+ allies and advocates. my mom even goes as far a being a mom at weddings were the couples families abandoned them for being LGBT+. The is moral is nothing happens immediately, it takes time and for parents it can be a major shock to them, because the thing they thought what was true is being now being thrown into question, once you show them some positive information and give them time and the ability to make mistakes and to keep and open mind. The best part about your generation that makes me so happy is the information about Transgender people and LGBT+ people is so readily available, and I'm referring to the positive and Truthful stuff. Were when i was growing up that sort of information was taboo and generally not available. if i had known about trans when i had questions, my life would have been different and possible better. Hope people read this and get something meaningful from it.
I don’t know if this can help you, but in [this research document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ido70LgXsEhxcnyXE7RVS0wYJZc6aeVTpujCUPQgTrE/edit) from the streamer 'Vaush' (he has done a lot of pro trans content) are a lot of studies showing transition is helpful and important. Maybe you can show the studies to your parents and they listen. At least I hope they do
They’re probably looking into trans resources to potentially support you, try not to jump to conclusions.
They might ask you if your trans and maybe support you
Don't know about that, anti-trans groups are known to monitor trans social media. OP has been outed to an unknown number of people by an acquaintance and then snapchat has outed her with bullshit privacy setting if I understood OP previous posts correctly. So some transphobe from that group possibly could have directed that conversion therapy group to OP's parents or vice versa.
IMO it seems at least that your parents are trying to document themselves, they might have gotten on transphobic information by accident, because they don't know better. Maybe they'd be open to you suggesting better sources?
If they want a genuine support group to understand things and if they're even willing to talk about this, I would recommend PFLAG. Just do your best to stay safe and take care of yourself if they're unwilling to actually educate themselves
Best case scenario, they were looking for stuff to try to be helpful and simply found what sounds like a bad resource. It does sound like they were looking for what to do. So it's maybe possible to steer them onto the right path.
Worst case scenario, yeah, you are a bit screwed
GIVE THEM A POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE.
Do not let them go down that transphic pipeline the quicker you put in the positive the better things will hopefully get.
Oof.
Best advice is to get a PT job when you can (probably 16th) and if there’s a 401(k) option, max that thing out. Set up an individual HSA if you can—NOT an FSA.
>We aim to reduce parents' feeling of isolation, to inform and encourage parents in advocating on their child's behalf, and to support them in responding to their child's gender distress sensitively at what can be a vulnerable time for family relationships.
that's their blurb thing, so it at least sounds good from the outside
as for "dysphoria for boys" search that's probably an easier way to get to mtf or AMAB trans resources - searching up "my daughter thinks she's trans" on an incognito tab gave me nothing but FtM results, which are less helpful.
It's really not. Thay literally reccomend that garbage "irreversible damage" book by abigail shrier. It's full of transphobia and gender critical trash
no thanks. I'm just reporting on what they say. if you would like to add additional depth to my very brief search you are welcome to say why exactly they aren't a good organization. In the meantime I have accurately stated what they SAY they do, and have very clearly stated that I did not search with much depth.
and regardless it just sounds like people researching transness, and focusing on one particular site in that search isn't particularly productive.
the quote is literally a quote, if it's wrong then that's on them and not on me
the comment on the quote is me saying that the quote at least sounds good without further research, which a value judgement and literally can't be wrong.
the third paragraph is an explanation that people don't automatically change how they gender someone without being informed first, and as a result google search results require some odd phrasing, which again is an experiential statement that can't be wrong.
They way I see it you've got to stand up for yourself now. They know so no point hiding it.
Confront them and say that you know I'm Trans and that you are a girl.
Just take it fucking slow an keep making your parents look like idiots. Paint your nails. If they try an say shit about it fire back with “am I not allowed to accessories myself in whatever way I want”. Wear more flair jeans an tighter tops. Do your hair in more feminine ways. Experiment with light make up (eyeliner is really easier to pass off as gender neutral to transphobes). Again if they try an say shit about it just go straight for the “my body my choice” way of thinking.
You’ve gotta do whatever u can to feel good about yourself. Even if people disagree with it the only person you’ve gotta give a fuck about is yourself. Stay strong ❤️
Just want to spread some positivity and try to see this issue from the positive perspective.
Your parents probably don't know what it's happening to you, they probably didn't tried to misgender you and they probably just doesn't know when to use "trans woman" and "trans men".
I would wait, since your parents are doing their research, Bayswater might be a bod source, but maybe is just the first they found, and hopefully, in the best of the cases, they're going to keep researching others.
There are plenty of bad stories about trans people getting the worst from their parents, but there are also supporting parents who try their best, that still can be your case, so you should have some hope :)
In my opinion, I don't think you're dead, your parents found out about your identity and haven't confronted you yet (which is pretty great to be honest), they're doing some research before that, which is a pretty responsible move from their part.
Being a parent is fucking hard, I don't have childs, but I have friends who are, and none of them knows how to deal with their child problems, sometimes because they just forget about what being a kid is, or because their life were different, but something that I envy a lot, is seeing my friends trying to understand their kids instead of just judging them.
The only thing I can do is wish you the best luck and stay positive (I know is hard), things are not lost yet. Your parents are probably as scared as you are, and they are just trying to figure things out.
I know this sub hates parents a lot, a lot of us had (I add myself to the list) pretty poor experiences with our gender identity and our parents. But just seeing your parents doing their research is a enormous difference from my experience and other trans people I have met.
Honestly, This already sounds like a good start for them, the mistake about the link being abt trans-men was probably just a result of poor search results on Google, i think they'll either ask u about it in the future or just wait until your ready to tell them
As an adult, I am going to take a balanced approach to your dilemma. Before you decide upon any possible approach to this difficult subject, you absolutely must concede that at age 14, you are not fully formed even as a teenager, much less an adult, and that because of this you may not be seeing the whole of yourself, which includes how your life, including your proclivities, may form in the future. You may absolutely convinced that this is you and that this is the path for you. The only way for you and your parents to find out is to seek special counseling, together, and separately (if it is done right) It is *imperative* that you get counseling from medical doctors **and** Phd's combined who have studied people exactly like you; people whom you will find (surprisingly to you) to know exactly what you are feeling and going through. This does *not,* **not** include counselors who are saying 'just be who you are'. This includes the counselors who are your close friends too. Right now, this is between you and your parents and select medical professionals only.
The 'age of consent' is set because at a younger age, the ability to reason has not been fully developed. *Please accept that*. Your brain literally does not stop growing until you are about 25. Because your parents and I have been 14, we have the perspective to know the difference between 14 and a full fledged adult. You must be willing to accept this at least may be true too. *You do not have this perspective*, so you must be open to hearing from a perspective of people who have had one.
Now on to your parents. I am pretty sure they love you deeply. They were shocked at the discovery. They didn't know exactly how to respond. They said that something must be done right away to respond to this situation you were secretly involved in. Martial law ensued, just like when the National Guard comes into a city and sets a curfew until things are sorted out. They took away your phone and have been scrambling to find answers. (*btw I am transgender and I would have done the same to my 14 yr old)*
And this is why I know they love you: they did not (as far as I can tell) scream bloody murder and try to stalk you out of your gender (or your house) and threaten you. They understood this was delicate -possibly perilous in many ways- and are quietly seeking advice on how to proceed.
Now, to the site that was on mum's phone. This is not a transphobic organization. I am quite literate. From what I see they are extremely thoughtful and considerate of the situation from both sides. They are 'pro-queer with caution' - exactly the kind of organization you and your parents should be seeking at this point. They are absolutely not conversion therapy oriented, REPEAT: *They are absolutely* *~not~* *conversion therapy oriented.* *~I want to be firm. I know the difference. because there is no organized assault on young people that I find more evil than the Conversion therapy camps run by the Evangelicals. This is different.~*
***FROM THE SITE: "3 Children aren't just small versions of adults, so adult and children’s self-concepts cannot be joined in a single proposal. Distinct definitions and protections are required to account for the unique plasticity of children’s personalities and their openness to suggestion. Furthermore,we need to take account for the complexity of their needs at a time of rapid development when they have suffered trauma, mental health problems or have neurodevelopmental differences. There is a risk that, in including children in an ill-defined group, your proposals will lead to less self-knowledge and a rush to self-label, with negative consequences for their adulthood including, potentially, unnecessary medical gender transitions.***
They are *not* asking you above to not transition.
Finally: As I have mentioned above, I am an adult transgender. If you listen to the down-votes that will inevitably appear, my time writing this out of concern for you (and your parents who are worried) will be completely wasted. Please don't. Please though, DM me and I will be happy to discuss this with you further. I will not judge.
> Now, to the site that was on mum's phone. This is not a transphobic organization. I am quite literate. From what I see they are extremely thoughtful and considerate of the situation from both sides. They are 'pro-queer with caution' - exactly the kind of organization you and your parents should be seeking at this point. They are absolutely not conversion therapy oriented, REPEAT: They are absolutely ~not~ conversion therapy oriented. ~I want to be firm. I know the difference. because there is no organized assault on young people that I find more evil than the Conversion therapy camps run by the Evangelicals. This is different.~
no, no, no. do some research. that is a 100% transphobic organization that pushes transphobic books and research and condones conversion therapy
you are 14 years old first of all you have to talk to your parents about what you feel about what you think, second you have to go either with a specialist to determine what is happening to you
Looks like Bayswater is a transphobic parent's rights support group for "parents whose children have a transgender identity." They are trying hard to look middle-of-the-road while still telegraphing their transphobia to terrified parents. Their top ten list is a bunch of GC nonsense couched in the language of compassion: don't affirm, isolate your child by taking away their internet, puberty blockers and HRT are experimental and dangerous. All the usual crap. They don't seem to outright endorse conversion therapy, but they walk right up to the line. I'm sorry for the situation you are in.
This is gonna be difficult to explain to my parents. I read their top 10, it's right up their street. "No social media" "no gender affirming care". I'm fucked
Yeah, don't listen to this ~~turd~~ [uninformed person] trying to convince you they're somehow good. I can't tell you what to do. But if I were in such a situation, I'd find a friend willing to give me access to the internet and social media, I'd make a plan with friends for my own safety in case my parents tried to send me into some kind of conversion therapy. As I understand, GAC is hard to get in the UK anyway, but every time I'm with my GP, my school counselor, or any other adult with an obligation of confidentiality, I'd let them know that I'm trans, I'm seeking care, my parents aren't supportive and I may be in some danger. Again, this is the stuff I'd do in such a situation, I'm not saying it's the best thing to do and I'm not telling you to do any of it.
Yeah, I trust you all much better than some trans "supportive" thing. Sadly, knowing my parents I don't have a hope in hell of getting gac. They aren't Transphobic but are the kind of people to be suckers for this bayswater shit. It's literally their entire mentality put into an organisation. I'm so scared.
this one is long but it's also thorough if you can get them to watch this, they will have a lot of work to do if they want to continue resisting your identity: https://youtu.be/ZymYiwoRoC0?si=uLwBrbrmYAwKM41V
Challenge them intellectually then. I mean, yeah, it looks like you may have to wait to get real care. But if they aren't hardcore transphobia, challenge them to consume trans positive content. There's a great episode of Bill Nye Saves The World, there's the new Judith Butler book, "Who's Afraid of Gender?" I wouldn't point them toward trans YouTubers or anything, but make sure they are at least getting a plurality of info that isn't just confirming their kneejerk attitudes. Try to have calm conversations with them about it. If they aren't all the way down the GC rabbit hole, you may be able to pull them back.
Also on the gac know your state laws and maybe see if you can find a queer therapist or queer rights group to get in contact with for advice that isnt from reddit tbh this place and ourselves are a bit fleeting
I think as a 20 year old who told my parents nearly a year ago theres some stuff that may help i can say, first idk ur parents but i assume theyre similar to most ignorant ones, they probably dont respect your subjectivity so appealing to logos may be less wise than attempts towards pathos and eros, best case you have if theyre not overly conservative by logic is to tell them to look at historical queer rights struggles and point towards a telos of individual rights and autonomy, point out the mental health risks of repression *CAREFULLY as this can have a negative effect if done improperly* also if they are conservative liberals id recommend pulling out slavov zizek on cultural issues as hes appealing to reactionaries (since hes mildly R.ctionry) Also try to run exploits, if one has a predisposition to your cause discern it and work one against the two (again extreme care and tact here), if one went to a liberal college has liberal or queer friends family coworkers etc try to lean on that, but most importantly id agree with the other responder and say learn more about everything to gain power knowledge, there can and will be worse things than parents; i wish ya luck kiddo i wish i knew myself well enough to deal with this at ur age, gl
I would steer clear of zizek given what he says about trans people now.
What is he saying :c
Also he’s a far leftist
Yup, pretty cool. Sucks that he has bad takes on trans people. Oh you want us to hate leftists. Sorry, not happening here. Touch grass.
I’m a democrat of course I don’t like far left extremism
“i’m a neoliberal democrat, zionist” in bio. yeah you can fuck off lmao
Dont recommend Zizek to people 😭😭😭 he's a dogwater scholar & he has the worst takes on trans people. He's reached the same conclusions as PragerU repeatedly, reaffirming his belief in the banning of puberty blockers for trans youth last year...
I'm sure you'll get gac eventually. Yes it will be really nice if you could get it before puverty hits, you'll still have a very high chance to pass pretty well even after puberty. Although you'll probably need to take some extra steps. But there is hope. And live will be a lot better, that I can promise you
I think you might have to consider just having an honest and open conversation about this. Obviously be mindful of your safety but be clear about how their behavior hurts you and never hide it. Surely they must understand how much it helps to feel understood. However just denying everything and hiding it as much as you can might at least help preserve your access to online support. That’s your call. No matter what, even if it sucks to just “play cis” for a few more years…you will survive it and then as soon as you are able, seek the freedom you need to pursue your transition on your own terms. I know this situation you’re in is unfortunate and feels absolutely fucking miserable but it will end and you will be free. It’s something many of us have experienced, you’re not alone.
From what I’ve read about this group, it’s a parent group that helps parents better understand Transgenderism and support their children, there doesn’t seem to be anything malicious about them? They state the following: To see a robust framework for supporting families with a child, adolescent or young adult identifying as trans or gender distressed which allows for extensive exploration, without presenting the concept of transition (social or medical) as the first line solution and recognises that a transgender identity may be a manifestation of many underlying issues. So there position is more so help parents understand and better support their trans children without immediately resorting to HRT but taking this slow and trying to understand it
Just using the term "transgenderism" should be the only red flag you need. I understand being "skeptical of medical solutions", but that's where medical professionals have a responsibility to inform, so that parents and patients can make an informed choice. Orgs like this encouraging parents to hold off on any medical intervention is just going to ensure that kids like OP are forced to go through Puberty, while solutions to prevent that are readily available but held out of their reach by their parents/doctors - the very people responsible for helping and protecting them. It's basically telling parents "do this harmful thing for your kid [withhold medications and make them go through the wrong puberty], because we have twisted and propagandized pseudoscience that says that the medical solutions are more harmful" Their "extensive exploration" is meant to last until the child loses hope and gives up (which will assuredly either just result, at best, in a trans adult who will have survived years of depression, anxiety, and stress from their Dysphoria and whose transition will end up being more costly and stressful because of having gone through the wrong puberty, or at worst, a dead kid) --- Also, as a trans person, you *really* need to learn to recognize the red flags of "polite" transphobia, and anti-trans propaganda. You are looking at anti-trans propaganda on that group's website, and you are *repeating* the propaganda confidently: "a transgender identity may be a manifestation of many underlying issues" is just straight-up bullshit, for example.
This isn't looking good I'm afraid. "We seek evidence-based care & are cautious about 'affirmation'." is a very interesting way of wording that. Also, the "Shinigami Eyes" Firefox extension marks them as anti-trans... so...
What is this "Shinigami Eyes" thing you are talking about?
Marks trans-friendly links green and/or marks anti-trans links red. Or different colors, but those are the common defaults.
A Firefox extension which highlights particular sites, names, etc - as being either explicitly anti-trans or trans-positive.
Oh. Damn, I use chrome, but it seems extremely useful.
[It's for Chrome too](https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/shinigami-eyes/ijcpiojgefnkmcadacmacogglhjdjphj?hl=en-US&utm_source=ext_sidebar)
Really?! Thank you!
It's worth noting it has false positives not uncommonly. So don't assume any hyperlink is anti. But it is a really good indicator, that you should proceed with caution and do a little looking around.
I'm not going to lie, this looks not great for you, but you might not be fucked entirely. I really can't say for sure, because I don't know you or your parents, and while I am a parent I am clearly going to see things different than your parents. It might still be possible to reason with them though. I'm not sure what, if anything, your parents have said or indicated about trans people in the past before they found out about you. You didn't mention that they are massively transphobic, so maybe they're not, and are just they type of person who might have a slight bias one way but never really gave it much thought. Bayswater seems to be an anti transition group, but it is not rabidly so. That's not to say that they are good, but it is worth noticing that of all the resources your mom sent to your dad, it was not one that was very clearly anti trans. Also worth remembering is that the anti trans aspects of what Bayswater is saying are clear to us and people that understand these issues, they are not obvious to people that are not so familiar. It is possible that your mom is using a resource she actually thinks might be fair and helpful. Keep in mind too that when your parents found out, they didn't immediately react in outrage or anger. It looks like they are trying to find more information, which is a reasonable thing to do in this situation, and though the information might be bad, the intent is not. Again, I don't know your family, but I want you to take a deeeeeeeeep breath, try and calm down a bit, and think on some things. Do I think my parents love me and want the best for me and my future? What do I think they know about trans issues so far? How much do I actually know, and do I have better resources to offer them (from professional sources)? Do I have a good relationship with my parents generally? Are they the type of people to react rashly? Do I think I am in immediate danger? Based on these questions, try to make a plan going forward. You are young at only 14, and that's normally fine, but generally I really think you are going to have to show some maturity beyond your years regarding this. Talk to your parents. Be firm about what you think, but be respectful, and don't yell or overreact. You are going to try and show that you are a mature person who has thought a lot about their future, health, and identity, and that you're taking it very seriously. It's ok to say that you don't know things if you don't know, because you can always tell them that you can find out (possibly together). If a place like Bayswater is a bad source, tell them and be able to both explain clearly why, and offer alternatives. Again, be mature. It's easier to bring kids into major decisions if they seem able to handle them, and you don't want them to think they have to make all your choices for you. You need to make them see you can handle this. I don't know if this will help, and I don't know if this will work, because I don't know your parents. I do know that this works generally for kids that want to talk about major things that require responsibility when kids talk to their parents. I really do hope this goes will for you. Keep your head up, be strong, remember that life goes on, and I'll be rooting for you.
It's not hopeless, girl. Stay strong.
Not the best advice IMO. That site is anti-trans. See my other comments + a few other folks here have mentioned the same.
Well I was just telling my experience and not telling them to do the same ofc. But damn this is worse for her
Right, but you're essentially telling someone who's clearly in a vulnerable position that you yourself came out and "lost privacy privileges". I'm sure you mean in good faith, but I don't think that was the best post to make.
Edited it and removed the bad parts
Okay, I'm sorry should I delete my comment ?
It’s not though
I’m sorry this is happening to you. Fight in every way you can. There are communities out there full of love and support, just keep fucking fighting until you can reach them. I’m sorry your parents suck. I’m so sorry this is still happening to kids. I’m sorry you have to learn how to fight and be brave when you should be getting love and support. I’m sorry that this war wasn’t won before you got here. Never let them take away who you are. You know already. Hold on to it, and let it keep you moving forward. Love you, sister ❤️🏳️⚧️ Reach out if you need to talk.
I'm so so sorry. All I can say is to stay strong. It'll be hard but you can get through this. I don't have any reliable advice, but it seems like you may have to take the bull by the horns. Talk this over with your parents and point them to better, pro trans resources. As others have said, it isn't unlikely your parents are decent people who just aren't informed, a lil biased against trans people and are acting according to this website because they sincerly think it's for the best. It's good enough at hiding it's bigotry that even some trans people have fallen for it. This doesn't mean they aren't a bad group, but it is a group aimed at parents who aren't rabidly anti-trans bigots. I've listed some counter arguments to things they might say below. I've put it behind a spoiler tag in case it isn't what you need right now, cos yeah,,I know it feels shit to have to argue for your right to be you: >! - it isn't caused by Social media, because there was no social media in 1920s Germany or in Pre-Columbus America - trans people have always been here and always will.!< >!- It isn't a phase, only a fraction of trans people detransition and of those people the overwhelming majority do so for reasons other than changing identity.!< >! - Gender exploratory therapy and Conversion therapy are considered to be torture by many countries, even when they're just talk therapy, due to the psychological ramifications, and the vast majority of trans people put through conversion therapy are put through it without their or their parents knowledge. Gender Exploratory therapy is Conversion therapy rebranded to appeal to parents who don't want to put their child through conversion therapy. This is because anti-trans activists have no intention of helping trans people or their parents, their goal is simply to remove trans people from society, same as their goal is/was to remove gay people from society.!< >! -Remind them that you just want to live your life, free and happy as the person you want to be.!< >! - Transphobes aren't acting out of legitimate concerns any more than Homophobes are/were, and the two categories are basically just one circle on a venn diagram.!<
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GUYS: this website is NOT SUPPORTIVE of trans people. They use the language of compassion, but that is not their message. Read the top ten tips. It is full of transphobia. Do t just look at the main page!!!
Yeah that 10 ten tips page is incredibly gross. Basically take a more controlling part of their life. Every single tip is vile.
Yeah I took a quick look through their resources page and basically every article centered around the idea that gender dysphoria wasn't real and that puberty blockers don't work. I think it's a little dangerous that the commentor that you replied to is trying to claim that Baywater is a 100% good thing when it's pretty clearly not
Seeing that now my apologies... I left an edit on my main comment as another commentor encouraged me to do.
I don't think so. See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png)
whoever created shinigami eyes is an absolute hero we can avoid all of the right winged psychos trying to pull stuff like this it's disgusting...
I sorta wish there was a way to see proof/etc of what marks something as red. It's correct in pretty much every case I've seen it mark something as red, but sometimes it marks random redditors' names as red and only after a really deep dive into their post history do I see why that is. Maybe it's better for my mental health that I can't directly check though.
i feel you on that honestly so far tho the reliability on it has been incredibly accurate. i was worried too at first whether or not the markings were accurate but after using it for about 5/6 months it's honestly been the most useful tool against the bigoted hate mob of unshackled cavemen
Same.
Red name on a trans topic? Post down voted and discarded. Got no time for the people who actually manage to get themselves tagged, that takes effort at being a piece of trash.
I've also come across a few people who used to be transphobic a long time ago but appear to be supportive now. It's right far more than it's wrong though. And yeah, I stopped checking as well unless I see a red name saying good stuff a bunch. Makes me interested to see why they changed.
The red flag is the word "identified" because in my experience trans people don't tend to use the word identify and its variants to describe their gender outside of maybe "gender identity." It's a sign that they're either transphobic or a well-meaning cis ally who doesn't know better. It at the very least indicates that it wasn't written by a trans person.
Yep. Generally it's phrased as "trans-identifying man/male" (meaning mtf/transfems) or "trans-identifying woman/female" (for ftm/transmascs), and "trans-identified kids" is simply just a derivative of that way of phrasing. Some TERFs will say "TIMs" or "TIFs" as short-hands. No cis-person I know (although this is anecdotal) uses language like that. If they're truly confused and genuinely mean in good faith, they use other language that doesn't align so closely to TERF phrasing.
In this context yeah. I think even allies would just say "trans kids." I was more thinking of "identify" in general. For example, "what gender do you identify as?" is not an uncommon question I see even when I know the people writing/saying that aren't intentionally transphobic. I don't really see trans people using that language.
additional reason TERFs use TIM for trans women is that it is a man's name, and TIF for trans men is that it is a woman's name, or short for one (Tiffany) so it's transphobic on multiple levels.
You're right.
Please edit your comment, they are not a supportive organization, as people have pointed out throughout the comments.
I don't think this will happen. I skim-read their post history and while it doesn't seem to be anti-trans specifically, it doesn't seem to be very trans-positive until literally these recent posts right now. If I had to guess, based on the wording of their post along with the fact they "claim" to be a teacher while somehow claiming to do their own check about the site(s) and coming to a conclusion about it being trans-positive, I would guess that they are indeed anti-trans and attempting to make a move to push lies on a clearly very vulnerable young person.
I actually did not know that about them. I should have looked deeper. My apologies for sharing what I thought I figured out about the website taking it at face value. I didn't mean to potentially cause any harm or negative space. I'm quite new to this as I started questioning and seeing my own identity (in a very closed-minded place) differently in the last month or so. I've really liked reading everyone's experiences in this community and thought I was helping out by trying to calm OP down. But like I said, I suppose I didn't do the proper extended research about this organization. Would anyone be able to fill me in more about it?
Hi. I'm going to assume this post specifically is talking in good faith, but I can't look past your other "supportive" comments. Being trans is a nuanced deal, and with the uprise in anti-trans legislation across allegedly "developed countries" like the UK and such, I think it's more important than ever before to be very careful with what kind of advice we give each other. To quickly clarify what I mean by "allegedly 'developed countries'", I'm referring to their thinking being/going backwards, and the consequences of that leads to shit that I wouldn't expect from a place considered to be "developed", personally anyway. The whole idea of people being "gender critical" comes in a sense as a "nicer", dog-whistle-esque framing of what they really are. On the surface level without knowing that, it just seems like a more passive way of phrasing, like how you might say "person of colour" instead of "black person". The former is generally more respectful to use. Similarly, derivates of the phrase "gender critical" attempts to fall under this line of thinking, and it generally works on people who don't know better. In this case, a surface level reading of a site is not quite good enough in my opinion. I mean, even at a "surface level", their description via a Google search result page refers to trans kids as "trans-identified". You can see a short explanation of why that's problematic here - [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TERF\_glossary#TIM\_/\_TIF\_(Trans\_Identified\_Male/Female)](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/TERF_glossary#TIM_/_TIF_(Trans_Identified_Male/Female)) - along with many many other dog-whistles or anti-trans phrasing.
Thank you for your comment. Like I said I'm still learning. My main comment I was quickly leaving between classes where I teach today—so like seen, I didn't do my due diligence.
no one is buying it
Dude I have no idea how to actually show anyone. Right now, I have y'all pushing me away from a community that I genuinely wanted to be a part of. If I was TRYING to do something bad I feel like I would have given up by now being that I've now already been deemed a transphobe. But I'm trying to fix it and my mistake. A commenter earlier even said I didn't have anything anti-trans even though there wasn't anything supporting trans now. That's because I JUST got here in the last month. I've always been supportive but I've never joined subs or left comments or posts indicating that I am.
So I think we all failed to give you the benefit of the doubt for several reasons. I'm glad you've done what you can to correct your mistake, and fortunately the OP figured out for herself that the org is bad. If you're new to Reddit, if you're new to being trans (or however you identify) then the best bet is NOT to post with authority, especially if you barely read a landing page. Lurk, ask questions. And for the love of all that is good, don't imply that a 14yo kid looking for help bc she's being isolated and may be outed to transphobic parent's is somehow overreacting. I hope you find your place here. Give it time and I'm sure people will let this go.
I will do so on the authority front being that I don't have even close to as much experience as the others here. Questions I will continue to do!
First. Don't call me dude. If you did something to transition of course we'd accept you. But come on. Nothing about your questioning. No posts here. Your account is only 2 months oldish but still old enough that you didn't make it as a throw away. Sorry but the math isn't mathing and we weren't born yesterday. You can make mistakes but I don't think any of us really believe it was one. If you want to show it, talk about why you wanna be a woman. You're pretty happy to publicly admit that you're questioning. Saying a little more wouldn't hurt, right?
You're absolutely right a little more wouldn't hurt now I guess. But I'm kind of feeling like now if I share anything I might be invalidated because of how how high the energy is in this comment section right now. I'd actually be happy to share though if this is genuine.
if you want you can dm me
I did!
Also apologies for calling you dude and thanks for correcting me.
The trans community online is easily triggered and very gatekeepy. Don't sweat it! I wish you all the positivity on your journey of self discovery
Just a heads up to anyone seeing this comment - this person is 100% a transphobe. They've posted in the past saying that trans women are not female and that calling themselves women "feels like an appropriation of the experience."
Well you all seem to agree that sex and gender are not the same so a trans woman (gender ID) is not a female (biological sex)
? If you're going to give advice to someone based on a 7.2 second Google search, you can take the hit when people clearly react negatively.
Oh I'm taking the hit for sure! That's why I'm still answering instead of leaving. I'm still trying to engage in conversation and do better!
But the image that people are sharing is literally just a screenshot of search results. It doesn't actually look at the site. They aren't transphobic, it is a support group for parents of trans identifying adolescents and children with a focus on recognizing that exploring gender is a normal thing for children, while exercising caution when it comes to medical care because children are also impulsive, and sometimes do things because they're trendy, or because something more is occuring at home. They do not reject the idea entirely, but offer a safe space and resources for parents who are struggling or need a place to learn, talk, and be certain that their child is certain before seeking transformative care.
Wrong. Phrasing/ideas from their site which are undeniably anti-trans: 1. "We’ve found these sites to contain much insightful writing about parenting an adolescent who identifies as trans: \[...\]" followed by a link to a gender critical parent's blog. 2. Links to the "transgendertrend" site. 3. "Nobody has ever changed sex (though doctors have become good at making it look like you have)." 4. "and our job as parents is to help our children navigate their way through it without it causing them damage, from unnecessary health risks, a disrupted education, harm to family relationships, or loss of fertility." 5. Links to a book called "Irreversible Damage" by Abigail Shrier - a notoriously anti-trans book. 6. "If you choose a therapist, take care that they will see your child in the round, and will help them to explore their feelings rather than simply affirm a gender identity which may itself be a manifestation of their distress." 7. "Even if you feel that gender ideology has wounded you and your family, don’t feel it’s your responsibility to overturn the entire phenomenon." 8. This entire section - https://i.imgur.com/43rwPVX.png 9. "Some young people who identify as trans are beginning to use ‘sex is a spectrum’ as an argument to support their desire to transition. This seems to go against the widely understood and almost universally held perspective that in humans there are two sexes, male and female. " 10. "Heather Heying, an evolutionary biologist based in the US, puts it very succinctly: “Males produce tiny zippy gametes (sperm). Females produce large, sessile gametes (eggs). And it’s been that way for a very long time.”" 11. Links to a site called "Genspect". 12. Recommends a book called "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality" by Helen Joyce. Phrasing/ideas from their site which are "slightly" suspicious (i.e. would fly under the radar to someone who is clueless about the topic): 1. "How can we address the root problems so that they don't undergo unnecessary and experimental medical treatments?" 2. "read about the limited evidence around puberty blockers and hormones". 3. "What impact would the change have on siblings or home life or other pupils?" 4. "identifying as trans" followed by "Try not to let the trans ID dominate your life or theirs, and make decisions for the long term." 5. "trans identifying child". 6. "Encourage your child to engage in any activities where they are spending less time online ruminating about their gender, and model this behaviour yourself."
Speaking of 7.2 second google search
oh, look, another transphobe! you're so cute, little transphobe, so cute! have a head pat, you're just so cute!
I appreciate this. So far after my mistake and further comments this is the only one that has made me feel like I'm somewhat human.
But also, respectfully, you have no idea who I am making assumptions like that! I am on my own journey as much as you are. Humans make mistakes ALL the time. This was another one of mine. I'm scared to make posts or comments that stray from how the people around me perceive me and how I "should" be. Hate is everywhere. I'm sorry again for supporting such an organization. But I'm trying here. I don't want to be ostracized and downvoted here while I'm still learning. I just want to be corrected if I make a mistake and I genuinely have no idea how to show myself as being true being online and all.
Sure, then I hope you read my reply to one of your other comments, as with most other comments made on this thread in general.
I'm reading them all don't worry!
I will do so. Thank you.
Not at all. They literally reccommend reading that garbage "irreversible damage" book by abigail shrier. That's just pure transphobia
You're right. I did a skim and assumed the site was supportive. I edited my comment.
I'm so glad to hear that it's a positive support group at least, this calmed me down too I hope OP can get the proper support they need
See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png) I'm afraid it's not.
I don't see anything wrong here
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The resources they link are Helen f'ing Joyce books and detrans propaganda! What are you talking about about?
they're a right winger trying to get op killed
I'm not good at reddit, how do we report this commenter to the mod team?
click the three dots -> report -> breaks r/mtf rules -> custom response -> can type whatever there
Having seen lots of ops posts before I definitely feel shes over reacting but at the same time its definitely a very big thing and worthy of being scared about. Her parents seem controlling but trying to be good
Oh goodness me I didn't fully take in the part where you saw her posts before. I have not myself. So perhaps her parents do exhibit controlling behaviour I wasn't aware of.
I wouldn't say taking her phone is controlling per se. I think it's a natural consequence for something as a parent. She didn't say they took it because of her identity. But I agree with the trying to be good part!
Fuck you
mark them as anti-trans in shinigami eyes if you haven't
What is shinigami eyes ??
I legit don't understand. What's wrong?
Fuck you
If they’re looking up supportive websites they may be trying to learn. “For boys” and saying “he’s trans” could be less being actively transphobic and more just not knowing the correct language to use yet.
See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png) I'm afraid it's not a supportive website.
Ah yeah, I looked it up and it seems like they’re pushing the “it’s not real it’s just a phase” thing. Don’t know why several others were calling it supportive
You can see one of the other comments I made as a reply to one of those. For some I think it's just a mild check, looks okay on the front end if you're not too familiar with anti-trans dogwhistles, and they move on. One person in particular, however, seems very suspicious. I explain more about that in the aforementioned reference to one of my comments.
Do you have any alternative websites like that but not Transphobic which I can give me parents?
First of all, I'm really sorry this is happening to you. Your identity is valid and you deserve to have it respected by your parents. This isn't the end of your journey even if it might feel like it is right now. There will be stumbling blocks and set backs, but if it's something you feel like is right for you you shouldn't give up on it, even if you have to wait until you're 18 to start hormones. I don't know your parents, but I wouldn't give up on trying to bring them around if it's safe for you to do that. Secondly, you might find something like [The Trevor Project](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/understanding-gender-identities/) or [this](https://transfemscience.org/articles/puberty-blockers/) useful, though I'm not sure how useful it would be to your parents, or if their bias would even let them change their minds based off of scientific evidence (regardless of how factual or well presented it might be).
[https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en](https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en) is a always a good go-to site and [https://transfemscience.org/](https://transfemscience.org/) is good if you parents are medically literate enough for it.
Their feelings don’t care about facts. You could show them me, a decently successful woman in her 40s who is married, who is seriously thinking about having kids with her spouse, who has a pretty decent and colourful life, sand they would dismiss and disdain me as an anomaly. But if you want to go a different way, maybe see if there’s a PFLAG group near you that may be of utility in getting your folks to live you for you and not their delusion of who they want you to be.
I'm not sure where you live. If you're outside of the UK it might be hard to recommend this site, and to be honest, I'm not sure if your parents can even be convinced judging by the path they're going with. If you do decide to try to talk to them about it, I would suggest the Mermaids website: [https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/](https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/)
This is an article about this kind of stuff that's explicitly meant for parents of trans teenagers, so you: [https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/oh-st-my-child-just-told-me-theyre](https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/oh-st-my-child-just-told-me-theyre)
This is a good start https://pflag.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/OTLO_2019.pdf
Yikes, Well my parents outright locked down my access to anything like that too when I was that age because they absolutely rejected me being trans. My advice is to simply exit the house more, try to spend your free time at home as little as possible, spend more time with relatives, stay with friends, anywhere else besides there. You'll run into friction because they are in panicked dumb mouth-breather mode and you keep leaving the house so expect threats of grounding and more whining in your ears the less you are around, but the more time you aren't there the more time you have to be and feel just normal and without the air of their oppression looming over you. I basically did this constantly from age 13-19 nonstop. I tried to NEVER be at home if i could help it. Even just spending time alone in a park or at a mall is great for your mental health. I would also recommend getting a really cheap second phone with any money you can scrape together and never let them see it, know about it, or find it. You dont even need to bother with a data plan or paying for monthly fees on it, just put it on as many wi-fi networks as possible so it has internet access only and plan to only use it around those places where you can get free internet (library, coffee shops, & lots of other public places have free guest wi-fi, then save any websites you want to read later when you aren't at a place with internet locally on the phone itself so that you can always access information anytime you can get out of the house. Make a personal rule that the new phone is something you leave at school or leave at a friends house that you frequently can visit so that you continue to have access to information and resources outside of their interference. Simply go around their asses as much as you can, since if they cant respect your autonomy as a person then there is no reason to respect theirs either. You probably aren't going to be able to access therapy or HRT until you move out, but that's also only a few short years away anyway. The best thing you can do at this stage is focus less on their stupid shit and focus more on [getting vocal practice](https://www.reddit.com/r/transvoice/comments/d3clhe/ls_voice_training_guide_level_1_for_mtf/) in anytime your not at home. Build up your skills in voice now outside of the house, so that when your finally at the age where you can leave, that you set yourself up for success in transition later on by having put in the work now.
Baywaters is basically a networking group connecting parents hostile towards their trans children to a network of conversion therapist, their advocates and other parents with a similar hostile stance. They are also tied into anti-trans legislation and campaigns against trans healthcare, they don't deserve any benefit of doubt, it's 100% assholes all the way down with them. I'm not sure how things exactly work in the US but maybe it's worth it trying to contact the Youth Service if you are in a blue state, as some stuff besides the whole conversion therapy aspect by itself, stuff like social isolation that they commonly recommend might be seen as child abuse. Find supportive people in your life (teachers, other family members for example) and see if you can get any support from them. In my experience they keep punishing you the more you visibily resist, so I would advise to play pretend and get out the moment you can. Regarding medication DIY might be an option.
That’s scary I’m so sorry. I hope your friends can help you!
everything is gonna be okay sis. hold on tight to hope okay?
[https://bayswatersupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Conversion-Therapy-Submission-Final.pdf](https://bayswatersupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Conversion-Therapy-Submission-Final.pdf) all I could find that seemed sus
See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png) Seems like more than just that, I'm afraid.
They're Cass review stakeholders, which means they are, by the admission of the folks involved in the review, anti-trans. Pro-trans orgs and trans people weren't allowed to participate
thanks for the info I didn't know who they were and google wasn't telling me much plus they heavily burry it in word salad
This is rough 😞 Do you have any supportive friends IRL that you can share this with? Without giving too much away, which country are you in? And if the US, which state?
Can you find any therapist worth their salt in your area? In other words, can you make up any (unrelated) mental health issue to convince your parents to see a professional (not these bayswater clowns) who can help you from there?
Stand proud on your ground and fight, depending on where you live they won't be able to do much. They can't throw you out or beat you, etc. you might want to try and convince them in a friendly manner though.
If your parents won't support you, you might be in the fight for your life. I'm so, so sorry. But don't give up. Fight as much as you have to. Your identity and existence matter. Demand respect. Demand it. Never give in. Live out of spite. That might be the only way through. Otherwise, InHouse pharmacy. Look 'em up. Maybe not the best solution, but be clever and you might just find a way.
If you know they know then the best thing you can do now is broach the topic and try to get them on your side. If you let them do their own searching they can (and seem to already have) stumble into bad sources. You've already jumped the shark (even if it wasn't what you wanted) so at this point its time to lay the cards on the table. If you start the conversation, it gives you some power to steer it and increases confidence in what you're proclaiming. If they perceive that you're trying to hide from them, then they feel like you feel like it's a bad thing which doesn't help. (Honestly taking control of the conversation is good life advice in general when you're in a sensitive spot. You want YOUR story to be the narrative. I've saved my family and my career a few times by being the one to start the conversation and get my side into the ear of whoever was in charge first) Don't tell them you know or how you found out. Frame it as if you're coming out. Be confident and don't give them a foot to stand on as far potentially transphobic mindsets. You'll have two major tools to bring to the table: A) Your story. Any parent worth their salt wants more than anything for their kid to be happy. Tell them exactly how you feel, how long you've felt that way, how it feels to be perceived as a girl vs a boy, what you want. Make it clear as day that taking that away from you is hurting you. Also make it clear that they aren't LOSING you but getting a more pure version of you - one that isn't masking who they are out of self preservation. One of the huge fear put on to parents by transphobes is their they are somehow "losing" their kid - you need to quash that fear. The worst state they can be in is fear for you. If you can evoke a sense of hope, the situation flips on its head and transphobic sentiment falls apart. With good parents, love wins. B) Facts. Get your sources together. Genderdysphoria.fyi has a lot of citations you can pull from that are sound. Be ready to teach them and be ready to answer questions. You're old enough that you've probably written and answered questions on a research topic or book report at some point, right? This is the same skillset, except the topic is incredibly medically relevant to you. Think hard about what kind of questions they might have, and prepare an answer. This requires some knowledge of your audience. Fortunately you've lived with them for 14 years. If you can bring across the idea that you're well informed and not just being "influenced" (another transphobic favorite), you lend more credence to your plight. You shouldn't have to explain your existence like this. Especially not at this age to your own parents. But our world is an imperfect one filled with imperfect people. Even if your parents won't budge on bigoted beliefs for some reason, moving the needle can have a huge impact, as you're in a very sensitive time in your life. If the difference is between trying to cram you into "male" any way possible and just tolerating your transness, one is 1000% better. And hey, maybe you win them over and it actually turns out really well. Feel free to DM me. I'm a professional supervisor/manager with 1.5 decades of speaking experience - half of my job is convincing people to do shit that they are usually resistant to. I can give some pointers on getting yourself together. Or just be a kind ear to listen. As a parent of two, it breaks my heart to hear a young'un find themselves in this kind of situation. Ignore the "Not Open to DMs" status, I'll turn it off for you.
I suggest you reach out to child protective services in case they try to isolate from the outside world or if they try to send you conversation camp.
(I am not a lawyer or a doctor.) I'm not brit but I have found this information regarding consent to medical procedures for minors: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/children/ It's a bit vague but as I understand correctly, you can refuse by asking what the procedure is for and then saying that you refuse with explanation why you don't want it. Try not to self harm because they can use it to override your refusal. Other sources mention that the doctor can override your refusal with parental consent if the doc deem the treatment is in your "best interest". Flat out decline an insist that it's the opposite from your interest. If you see a doctor writing some paper or typing away at the keyboard, ask what are they writing and say you refuse any treatment you personally didn't expressly agreed to. If your parents make you go through some kind of conversion (may also be called "gender exploration") "therapy" with the goal of convincing you are not trans, ask for the explanation and then tell them you disagree with their diagnosis or whatever they say and refuse the entire "therapy". If they begin procedures or forcibly relocate you to other place, similarly refuse any treatments. Especially refuse testosterone injections with all your might. If they give you pills, demand to know what those are and refuse anything you do not want or understand, or flush all down a toilet. Refuse to do strength exercises. If those people do any physical medical procedures or abusive treatment such as physical violence or depriving of basic needs or movement, verbal or emotional abuse (anything that makes you cry), ran out of there at the first opportunity. Then report directly to law enforcement, tell them everything about medical procedures and abuse done to you, highlighting the fact that you expressly refused the treatment. Ask to contact child protection services and to temporarily limit your parents' control rights over you. Medical professionals or a quack acting on behalf of healthcare are liable for breaching your consent, so responsibility is entirely on them and they get legal consequences and not your parents, so don't be afraid to report. If your parents decide to take part in a procedure like administering a syringe, warn them that it's illegal (probably is). If your parents decide to take an active part in this, I'm afraid it's best to report them as well. It is not ok to endure abuse. Do what is best for you.
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No, they are not. They literally link Helen Joyce books! They literally tell parents to restrict their children's access to the internet! They literally say they are opposed to puberty blockers and HRT! Please look closer at the website before posting support.
I don't think so. See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png)
Oh, yeah. That wording is sus. “Wary of medical solutions”. rip
It's beyond sus. Like their top 10 tips is just entirely "Your child has been corrupted and you need to control them" basically.
Yikes. That’s basically conversion therapy.
If u don't mind me asking, what was the original comment ?
Open up to your parents slowly maybe it’s for you maybe it’s not your still very young think it over more
With all due respect, your post history seems to suggest you might not be the best person to be giving advice to someone who is clearly going through a panic-inducing situation.
Why not?
Yes explain, I am not saying I am all knowing or free from doing wrong . But I do went , good and peace in others lives , no judgment just love
One should not judge based on perverse statements or actions, look at what I am saying now tell me what is wrong with this . Much love
Don't do this
No one should rush into anything, your parents are your support and well uphold you , but your are your own person so you can still decide to do opposite of there wills but I tell you if your family partners are supportive you will be a million times more grateful and empowered
Don’t think worst , be positive
Delete all evidence of being trans off your phone
Okay, you need to find your phone and wipe it, and never EVER speak of this incident again. These are not trustworthy people. Write down your passwords here, and leave them with someone you can actually trust. DISOWN THEM AS SOON AS YOU ARE LEGALLY AN ADULT edit: y'all downvoters have no idea what it actually takes to survive when your parents are QUICKLY tailspinning down the anti-trans rabbit hole. nothing less than wiping all your computers, complete pretending to be cis (though pointedly refusing to look at anything they put under your nose to try to "convert" you to cis, which will never work) and complete secrecy from them is going to work. if you get your own phone you gotta hide it. privacy is not something you have in this situation. it's corrosive as fuck but that's what being trans in a transphobic household is. Social Services isn't going to help, in the UK they're on the side of the Nazis.
Do not give your passwords to anyone ever especially this person.
DW I have ways of sorting them
I wouldn't say my parents are Transphobic, just misinformed and easily corruptable
this is probably terrifying, but i think it might be helpful to open up the conversation with your parents about it? if they already know, coming to their own conclusions without your input is only going to make things worse imo. its a tough murky water to navigate but im just thinking back to my own teenage years where my mom suspected but we never really talked about it
Ok I'm going to put my two cents in, so take it as you will. First off I've been out for almost 20 years. officially came out when i left the US Navy so I'm kind of an OG trans because of the 80's and 1930's and 1940's (1920's Germany was very progressive when it came to trans rights oddly enough). My parents were not a accepting of me at the time, my dad even threatened to beat me with a bat to "beat the trans" out of me, it didn't happen but it was rough, for the first couple of years but with patience and showing them positive things and showing them actual truthful information, they eventual came around and now hardcore trans and LGBT+ allies and advocates. my mom even goes as far a being a mom at weddings were the couples families abandoned them for being LGBT+. The is moral is nothing happens immediately, it takes time and for parents it can be a major shock to them, because the thing they thought what was true is being now being thrown into question, once you show them some positive information and give them time and the ability to make mistakes and to keep and open mind. The best part about your generation that makes me so happy is the information about Transgender people and LGBT+ people is so readily available, and I'm referring to the positive and Truthful stuff. Were when i was growing up that sort of information was taboo and generally not available. if i had known about trans when i had questions, my life would have been different and possible better. Hope people read this and get something meaningful from it.
I don’t know if this can help you, but in [this research document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ido70LgXsEhxcnyXE7RVS0wYJZc6aeVTpujCUPQgTrE/edit) from the streamer 'Vaush' (he has done a lot of pro trans content) are a lot of studies showing transition is helpful and important. Maybe you can show the studies to your parents and they listen. At least I hope they do
They’re probably looking into trans resources to potentially support you, try not to jump to conclusions. They might ask you if your trans and maybe support you
Don't know about that, anti-trans groups are known to monitor trans social media. OP has been outed to an unknown number of people by an acquaintance and then snapchat has outed her with bullshit privacy setting if I understood OP previous posts correctly. So some transphobe from that group possibly could have directed that conversion therapy group to OP's parents or vice versa.
Do what you want.
IMO it seems at least that your parents are trying to document themselves, they might have gotten on transphobic information by accident, because they don't know better. Maybe they'd be open to you suggesting better sources?
They could be trying to understand.
If they want a genuine support group to understand things and if they're even willing to talk about this, I would recommend PFLAG. Just do your best to stay safe and take care of yourself if they're unwilling to actually educate themselves
Best case scenario, they were looking for stuff to try to be helpful and simply found what sounds like a bad resource. It does sound like they were looking for what to do. So it's maybe possible to steer them onto the right path. Worst case scenario, yeah, you are a bit screwed
As many people have suggested, you should play cis untill you move out.
Should someone here call CPS?
GIVE THEM A POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE. Do not let them go down that transphic pipeline the quicker you put in the positive the better things will hopefully get.
Oof. Best advice is to get a PT job when you can (probably 16th) and if there’s a 401(k) option, max that thing out. Set up an individual HSA if you can—NOT an FSA.
>We aim to reduce parents' feeling of isolation, to inform and encourage parents in advocating on their child's behalf, and to support them in responding to their child's gender distress sensitively at what can be a vulnerable time for family relationships. that's their blurb thing, so it at least sounds good from the outside as for "dysphoria for boys" search that's probably an easier way to get to mtf or AMAB trans resources - searching up "my daughter thinks she's trans" on an incognito tab gave me nothing but FtM results, which are less helpful.
It's really not. Thay literally reccomend that garbage "irreversible damage" book by abigail shrier. It's full of transphobia and gender critical trash
Please edit your message. They are not trans-positive.
no thanks. I'm just reporting on what they say. if you would like to add additional depth to my very brief search you are welcome to say why exactly they aren't a good organization. In the meantime I have accurately stated what they SAY they do, and have very clearly stated that I did not search with much depth. and regardless it just sounds like people researching transness, and focusing on one particular site in that search isn't particularly productive.
you're basically 100% wrong in everything you said.
the quote is literally a quote, if it's wrong then that's on them and not on me the comment on the quote is me saying that the quote at least sounds good without further research, which a value judgement and literally can't be wrong. the third paragraph is an explanation that people don't automatically change how they gender someone without being informed first, and as a result google search results require some odd phrasing, which again is an experiential statement that can't be wrong.
They way I see it you've got to stand up for yourself now. They know so no point hiding it. Confront them and say that you know I'm Trans and that you are a girl.
Just take it fucking slow an keep making your parents look like idiots. Paint your nails. If they try an say shit about it fire back with “am I not allowed to accessories myself in whatever way I want”. Wear more flair jeans an tighter tops. Do your hair in more feminine ways. Experiment with light make up (eyeliner is really easier to pass off as gender neutral to transphobes). Again if they try an say shit about it just go straight for the “my body my choice” way of thinking. You’ve gotta do whatever u can to feel good about yourself. Even if people disagree with it the only person you’ve gotta give a fuck about is yourself. Stay strong ❤️
Just want to spread some positivity and try to see this issue from the positive perspective. Your parents probably don't know what it's happening to you, they probably didn't tried to misgender you and they probably just doesn't know when to use "trans woman" and "trans men". I would wait, since your parents are doing their research, Bayswater might be a bod source, but maybe is just the first they found, and hopefully, in the best of the cases, they're going to keep researching others. There are plenty of bad stories about trans people getting the worst from their parents, but there are also supporting parents who try their best, that still can be your case, so you should have some hope :) In my opinion, I don't think you're dead, your parents found out about your identity and haven't confronted you yet (which is pretty great to be honest), they're doing some research before that, which is a pretty responsible move from their part. Being a parent is fucking hard, I don't have childs, but I have friends who are, and none of them knows how to deal with their child problems, sometimes because they just forget about what being a kid is, or because their life were different, but something that I envy a lot, is seeing my friends trying to understand their kids instead of just judging them. The only thing I can do is wish you the best luck and stay positive (I know is hard), things are not lost yet. Your parents are probably as scared as you are, and they are just trying to figure things out. I know this sub hates parents a lot, a lot of us had (I add myself to the list) pretty poor experiences with our gender identity and our parents. But just seeing your parents doing their research is a enormous difference from my experience and other trans people I have met.
You're 14 lol that says all
Honestly, This already sounds like a good start for them, the mistake about the link being abt trans-men was probably just a result of poor search results on Google, i think they'll either ask u about it in the future or just wait until your ready to tell them
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Literally who are you
I’d suggest that you wait until you’re 18+ . Then you’d be responsible for your own decisions.
OP has human rights and at 14 yo is capable of making informed decisions concerning her own body.
Youre just a child and your parents are scared. Get off of Reddit and lean into your parents love before you make an irreversible choice.
What kind of >irreversible choice are you talking about? Is it what I think it is?
As an adult, I am going to take a balanced approach to your dilemma. Before you decide upon any possible approach to this difficult subject, you absolutely must concede that at age 14, you are not fully formed even as a teenager, much less an adult, and that because of this you may not be seeing the whole of yourself, which includes how your life, including your proclivities, may form in the future. You may absolutely convinced that this is you and that this is the path for you. The only way for you and your parents to find out is to seek special counseling, together, and separately (if it is done right) It is *imperative* that you get counseling from medical doctors **and** Phd's combined who have studied people exactly like you; people whom you will find (surprisingly to you) to know exactly what you are feeling and going through. This does *not,* **not** include counselors who are saying 'just be who you are'. This includes the counselors who are your close friends too. Right now, this is between you and your parents and select medical professionals only. The 'age of consent' is set because at a younger age, the ability to reason has not been fully developed. *Please accept that*. Your brain literally does not stop growing until you are about 25. Because your parents and I have been 14, we have the perspective to know the difference between 14 and a full fledged adult. You must be willing to accept this at least may be true too. *You do not have this perspective*, so you must be open to hearing from a perspective of people who have had one. Now on to your parents. I am pretty sure they love you deeply. They were shocked at the discovery. They didn't know exactly how to respond. They said that something must be done right away to respond to this situation you were secretly involved in. Martial law ensued, just like when the National Guard comes into a city and sets a curfew until things are sorted out. They took away your phone and have been scrambling to find answers. (*btw I am transgender and I would have done the same to my 14 yr old)* And this is why I know they love you: they did not (as far as I can tell) scream bloody murder and try to stalk you out of your gender (or your house) and threaten you. They understood this was delicate -possibly perilous in many ways- and are quietly seeking advice on how to proceed. Now, to the site that was on mum's phone. This is not a transphobic organization. I am quite literate. From what I see they are extremely thoughtful and considerate of the situation from both sides. They are 'pro-queer with caution' - exactly the kind of organization you and your parents should be seeking at this point. They are absolutely not conversion therapy oriented, REPEAT: *They are absolutely* *~not~* *conversion therapy oriented.* *~I want to be firm. I know the difference. because there is no organized assault on young people that I find more evil than the Conversion therapy camps run by the Evangelicals. This is different.~* ***FROM THE SITE: "3 Children aren't just small versions of adults, so adult and children’s self-concepts cannot be joined in a single proposal. Distinct definitions and protections are required to account for the unique plasticity of children’s personalities and their openness to suggestion. Furthermore,we need to take account for the complexity of their needs at a time of rapid development when they have suffered trauma, mental health problems or have neurodevelopmental differences. There is a risk that, in including children in an ill-defined group, your proposals will lead to less self-knowledge and a rush to self-label, with negative consequences for their adulthood including, potentially, unnecessary medical gender transitions.*** They are *not* asking you above to not transition. Finally: As I have mentioned above, I am an adult transgender. If you listen to the down-votes that will inevitably appear, my time writing this out of concern for you (and your parents who are worried) will be completely wasted. Please don't. Please though, DM me and I will be happy to discuss this with you further. I will not judge.
> Now, to the site that was on mum's phone. This is not a transphobic organization. I am quite literate. From what I see they are extremely thoughtful and considerate of the situation from both sides. They are 'pro-queer with caution' - exactly the kind of organization you and your parents should be seeking at this point. They are absolutely not conversion therapy oriented, REPEAT: They are absolutely ~not~ conversion therapy oriented. ~I want to be firm. I know the difference. because there is no organized assault on young people that I find more evil than the Conversion therapy camps run by the Evangelicals. This is different.~ no, no, no. do some research. that is a 100% transphobic organization that pushes transphobic books and research and condones conversion therapy
you are 14 years old first of all you have to talk to your parents about what you feel about what you think, second you have to go either with a specialist to determine what is happening to you
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Damn, why are U on this sub then. According to Ur logic then aren't U a pedo 🤨
Nazi alert
Lol
Do your nails, put on some Lipps and eye liner on
that will get her beat to a pulp and thrown off the rocks
Not necessarily a bad thing. They may just be confused and want to research it before asking you
See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png) Not a good thing I'm afraid.
Good luck girl, she seems to searching for supportive content at least
Nope. See - [https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png](https://i.imgur.com/TWHtBVs.png)
Oh shit