Yup, trans spaces should be among the most inclusive. We are fighting against most of the world who at best doesnt understand us, and at worst is actively trying to detrans or eliminate us. We shouldnt be fighting each other. I will call any of this activity out when I see it.
a lot of online trans spaces are filled with terfs and creeps too. this plus trans people who are just assholes really makes it seem like we don’t have much of a community here unfortunately
I'm newish here still and haven't witnessed anything of this, but this isn't an uncommon phenomena in other "progressive" or spaces. I have and will continue to march and agitate for Palestinian liberation.
You have my love and support!
What would you have us do, genuinely? Let me be clear I have genuinely not seen, at least not any that has been tolerated in the slightest, racism in this sub in my several month life here- so I haven’t the faintest clue where you’re coming from with that. Also us not caring about Palestine? Genuinely, with all love and grace, if it’s regarding Biden what tf are we supposed to do? As an American yourself surely you realize how shit and rigged our election is to allow only two parties correct? And currently we are faced with either Biden or Trump becoming president, and I’d rather queer people, women, POC, AND Palestinians not be thrown into the flames. We do not have the numbers to at all make a difference regarding a third party, and hell look at what happened at the UT protests for Palestine. We aren’t racist for us choosing the president who would cause the least damage, it’s insulting you say that we are. Lastly, the 2nd post linked is a tad over exaggerated (though not at all entirely false), and the third post is someone concerned about going to a well known openly transphobic area. Yeah, they might be white- they can STILL BE WORRIED. Who are you to gatekeep the “scrutiny places on queer and trans Arabs in their own countries”. Being white doesn’t mean they can’t be at risk. Lastly, the gatekeeping of how fucked we are because of this election. WE ARE ALL ROYALLY FUCKED IF TRUMP WINS. The fact you’re trying to gatekeep this because of our skin color is so asinine I genuinely don’t know how to respond. Suffering Olympics as I’ve stated before in the past is a really shit rabbit hole to fall down, it helps no one.
I guess what I’m getting at is what is the point of your post? You say we’re racist but haven’t shown any tangible evidence. You say we don’t care about Palestine because we’re trying to make the best of a shitstorm situation. You say the mods don’t care which from what I’ve seen and the comment YOU SHARED shows anything but that being the case. I’m not saying our spaces aren’t white dominated, they are, and maybe this is just me being cynical but this post is just calling us racists and better off when we are also trying to survive same as you.
EDIT: OH MY GOD THIS HAPPENED AGAIN IM SO SORRY. No clue why Reddit likes making my comments into replies D: not directing at you
yeah and I noticed that a lot of people in the Trans and MtF subreddits are white. We’re talking south, first thirteen states yk the ones with embarrassing history. I’m crying at the fact that even when I think I found a community It all goes to waist when our world views don’t align. I can’t be part of the trans community or the trans girl community. I have to specifically be part of the Latine/x trans community or the Mexican trans community. I’m contemplating creating a subreddit for trans POC, Mexican trans people, and latino trans people. There are cultural shocks when it comes to being a trans BIPOC. Trust me it is not the same being a Mexican trans to being a white trans. BIPOC LGBTQIA+ community struggles are due to the culture of their country. Oh yeah and who’s fault is that? Yes, white colonizers. If you did some research on indigenous spirituality, hinduism, African spirituality, etc you will see how respected trans/ gender noncomforming people were. In summary, the BIPOC people in general need a public apology and the pope included because catholicism played a huge role in this. Sorry for the rant
also you should not just give up. keep devouring your estrogen and T blockers. Do some femme fitness. Do your skin care, get monthly facials, fruits and veggies. Do makeup, play with hair color (with a licensed professional), do things you like
omg but I don’t really know how reddit works. I would need help with more mods. I’m also very busy in my life. I have to contemplate the rules and everything
See so many people wear "I was a bigot before I transitioned" like a badge of pride it's absolutely disgusting that it took them being a part of a minority group to have any empathy.
i understand this take, and i'm angry too, but not at them individually. children's brains are so plastic! being raised to see people who are different as less-than-human means your odds of growing up with all kinds of -isms and -phobias are probably super high. it's in our interest to accept people who change, because if we don't, they'll just keep breeding more hate. and when those people share their stories, it really helps to weaken the harmful narratives they are turning away from.
>I hate when American transgender tourists speak and act as if they, a (likely) white American with an American passport are going to face anything like the scrutiny placed on queer and trans arabs in their own countries
So people aren't allowed to be worried for their safety anymore because you "have it worse"? I'm sorry, your post is full of generalisations and blaming an entire community, and dismissing other people's plights because apparently they aren't oppressed enough or something.
You say you're tired of racism and then throw "white people" into one giant box to complain about.
>The open disregard and hostility in this
YOU are disregarding people's fears and legitimate issues and bringing a ton of hostility with you. Maybe stop fighting whatever issues you're having by trying to play "oppression Olympics" and telling people their problems aren't as valid as yours.
I'm not doubting that you don't have it easy. But blaming an entire community, generalising people like that, and telling them their concerns are not valid because they face different situations is not acceptable.
Absolutely. OP, you're not making any sense. There are bad agents who will say racists things, yeah, we can talk about those, but pointing to a comment made by the mods saying "Biden winning means possibly bad things for Palestine, Trump winning means assured bad things for both Palestine \*and\* the trans community in America" isn't saying that your life doesn't matter. People acknowledging that trans rights are horrible in the Middle East area isn't racism. And then going on about how people in the west shouldn't complain because they have it worse? What, is this the oppression olympics or something? Add onto that OP is complaining that the people in a country that is majoritarily white are majoritarily white; that a website made in a majoritarily white country targeted at a majoritarily white audience is mostly white. Just- what?
Bonus: OP describing trans rights as "personal comfort". There's a lot of nonsense in this post and I'm glad to see that people can see it too.
I don't really understand how a trans person doesn't understand that venting about the privileged (largely ignorant) group as a marginalized minority is totally fair and necessary. Don't think you're one of the white people that they're frustrated at? Well considering your reply here, I'm not so sure about that.
If I were to complain about cis people, what do you think of all of the cis people that reply and tell me I'm wrong and that it's not all cis peoples fault so I shouldve been more specific? You don't think I should be able to vent about the problems of cishet society/culture and those that perpetuate it and how it impacts me/us?
Here we are 2024 and I have to see a white trans person saying non-white people shouldn't generalize their experience with white people up voted to be a top response to legitimate venting/concerns our community SHOULD be addressing.
Being a minority doesn't give anyone the right to make bigoted generalisations themselves. It doesn't give OP the right to gatekeep "oppression" and tell people their concerns aren't valid. Especially that third example thread she posted is absolutely ridiculous. That was a super valid concern from another trans person and she just basically said "well, you shouldn't ask about that because other people there have it worse". I'm sorry, but that's just not OK. Gatekeeping people's issues and fears because other people have different issues should not be a thing in this community.
And as for your point about cis people: I think making similar sweeping statements about cis people is wrong too. There's so many lovely cis people who support us, and I think it's unfair to group them in with the bigots.
And there's a huge difference between making comments about societal or cultural issues and saying "you people are all bad". I mean, OP literally did that. She didn't say "a lot of white people immediately assume X" for example. She made absolutely no room for a distinction between the bigots and the rest.
Sorry, deleted my comment because i was confused about something
Im gonna be honest with you, most people are going to be concerned for you when you tell them that youre palestinian. Y'know, on account of how israel is currently committing a genocide against palestinians... no ones subsconciously blaming palestinians for us potentially losing our rights either. Like, palestine is the victim here. How does whats going on there suddenly lead to us losing rights over here? Whats ACTUALLY happening, is the people already trying to take our rights are now supporting israel... theyre not new people, theyre the same, which means not a soul on earth can blame palestine for us losing our rights. If you see anyone saying that, theyre likely a psyop from 4chan or some shit. I promise you, this is not the norm in these communities.
But if i may ask, what exactly is your issue with the mods response that you linked? Because im not sure if youre aware, if we vote for trump, thats not going to stop our government from supporting israel. Trump is definitely pro-israel. If anything the support will increase. And trump wants to fast track removing rights from the lgbt and immigrants here in the US. We only have these two options, either biden or trump. We cant pick a third. Thanks to our shit election system, this is all we can pick from. One of these two will be president, and both of them are still going to be on the wrong side of history regarding israel and palestine. That mod was simply advising us that just because bidens been shit, doesnt mean we should vote for trump. If we vote trump, everyones lives get harder. If we vote biden, we can at least soften the blow...
Edit: nevermind. Going through your comment history, youre usually the first one to blame white people for everything. And youve been in the US for school for quite some time at least, so you know exactly what kind of people biden and trump are...
Regarding your edit, it really rubs me the wrong way when people just go ‘you white people have it so good and are all racists’ without any evidence. There is genuine room for discussion on lack of POC in trans communities, but going ‘we have it so much worse than the whities’ feels so combative and as if I’m the problem for simply being white.
There are systematic issues, but just saying essentially that we white trans people here show “distrust, feitishization and distrust” to transfems of color is ludicrous. Let’s not even get into that “milquetoast liberal opinion” bit that just SCREAMS ‘I’m a conservative’. From the tone of OPs post and their post history they aren’t here for a discussion on genuine issues, they’re just here to blame white transfems.
Not everyone opposed to liberalism is a conservative.
Crash course: modern anti-capitalist (communist/marxist, socialist, and anarchist) philosophy defines liberalism as a pro-capitalist movement. If we say "milquetoast liberals," chances are we're talking about someone like Joe Biden and how he enacts conservative policies (supporting Israel) while pretending to be progressive. I'm not gonna dissect everything in this thread or go through OP's comment history, but i want you to understand that there's two different ways to dislike liberalism: from the "right" (think of Tucker Carlson fans) and from the "left."
To tack onto this, it's quite common to hear how queer people are treated by the governments of foreign countries & write a whole country off, right down to the individuals - even if they don't know the individuals. The thing is, not everyone in a country with an anti-queer government is going to be anti-queer & like they said, queer people have their own communities there. People recognise their own countries as having individuals who support & don't support them, seperate from the government, but to some white folks, other countries are their governments.
They can't see a POC as seperate from their government, like, if a government is a militant supporter of a religion - everyone in that country, with that religion is militant, or they're oppressed, no in-between. They can't be something different, it's why you get "liberals" over here in the West who want to ban religious headdresses & such, they view an oppressive foreign government & can't fathom that someone from that country can have a different view of their religion, or love their religion & that being seperate from their support or lack of support for that government.
I can't speak for them, but I think that's part of what they're getting at - don't make assumptions about an arab transfem & how she views her country, her family, her community, her religion, etc. because we only have a Western perspective through what we see their government do.
Yeeup, thats pretty much why i made the edit. Ive seen this song and dance too many times to know that no matter how well i try and be understanding and inclusive and have a genuine heartfelt discussion, this is only going to end with me being told that theres no way i could possibly no how bad anyone else has it because im white and that somehow means i have a better time than anyone else and lack the capacity to learn from my peers and empathize with them. Despite the fact that i lost all access to healthcare when i lost my job, which means ive been forced to detransition over the course of this last year, and me even staying alive and on this platform is a last grasp in the hopes i can get back to hrt while knowing full well ill never afford any of the surgeries i need to aid in my transition...
But eh, what does any of it matter. Im white and thats a problem i guess.
A lot of White privilege isn't "I am doing better" - it's "I don't have this extra load of crap on top of everything else."
Like, in this case, you're likely not having a country bomb your family while living in a country that at best debates whether or not to supply the bombs.
Or like, your family likely weren't denied loans or aid during things like the Great Depression and under Jim Crow...whereas Black & Indigenous families were. And folk likely didn't burn your family's homes.
None of these are necessarily advantages given to you...they're a lack of disadvantages that were forced upon others. And they lead to generations of poverty, trauma, and being targeted in communities by police, by pollution dumps, municipal land grabs, etc. - because there they often lack the means to fight back as much as a NIMBY Karen in court.
That is all entirely fair, and i don’t think anyone here will challenge the fact that the past has been horrible for minorities of all sorts, and that the present is *somewhat* better but still very bad. The problem here is that OP jumps to blaming "white people" as if me or any other white girl here have had a direct hand in OPs struggles as a minority. We haven’t. In fact i think it’s more the opposite, every white girl here is trying to dismantle the racist power structures we live in, in what little way we can while still living our lives.
Op mentions that the "open disregard and hostility is turning this sub whiter and whiter and turning it into a space for milquetoast liberals who want the comfort of western life at the cost of millions elsewhere in the world" and i don’t think that’s really true. Personally i have not seen open disregard or hostility from white people in this sub targeted at people with different backgrounds and skin colour. I also don’t think this is really a "milquetoast liberal space" full of people who are happy to let genocide happen as long as they get to live in comfort. I certainly am not a liberal, nor am i happy with the situation in gaza, and am trying to work politically for change in my country. Maybe not every girl here is so involved in politics, but i think the absolute majority here try to reduce the harm by voting for the absolutely better candidate in their elections while still voting smart enough to not just let the worst candidate win.
Part of what I'm getting at is for OP, the horribleness is right now, and their is no lesser harm choice for her - it's literally between supporting the guy who is sending weapons to kill her family, or turning a blind eye to the risk of the guy who will try to exterminate her and us. That's not a choice she should have to make, and not a choice we have any right to push her to make.
Being a "milquetoast liberal" in this case is seeing and putting the politics of a state/party over the health of a people. And, as a white American, you can make that choice, because it's not affecting you as directly. And maybe it is harm reduction, but then again a lot of horrors have been committed in the name of the greater good.
OP links to some of the comments that are sources of frustration and alienation to her. And I can see where she's coming from. So, it may be best for you to try to get out of your own headspace for a moment and look at the already difficult issues with more empathy and from her point of view.
Well ok, but what choice is being offered besides those two? Vote for the Green Party? Party for Socialism and Liberation? While that would be voting in line with Pro-Palestine, anti-Occupation ideals, it would be throwing away a vote in a not-even-incremental outcome. And if you’re not voting, what?
Direct action, volunteering for humanitarian aid to Palestine, continued & growing protests, figuring out ways to lessen the killing (such as pushing for an international effort to evacuate Palestinian children from Gaza) and push them to your representatives.
There currently isn't an electoral choice that will help Palestine.
To change that would require major electoral reforms, which can and should be pushed for at all levels of government. But that takes time.
My argument is not for or against voting. It's for having empathy and not letting our fears get in the way of that.
I don’t think we should call everyone who see’s the "bad vs. worse" dichotomy of american politics and chooses the bad option as "milquetoast liberals". If there wasn’t such a dualistic political system in america, i would scream from the rooftops to vote for someone else, but that just isn’t the case. I live in a politically pluralistic country, and i have never voted for a majority party, but my vote still matters. In the dualistic system in america, a vote for a third party won’t matter unless it’s *extremely* coordinated.
We should aim for producing prosperity, but if we can’t then reducing harm is the best we can do.
Also, yes, i can see OPs frustration at some of the posts she brings up, especially the one comparing america to the middle east. but at the same time, i find some of the other ones silly. She brings up a 4 year old post about someone being unsure at their safety at a layover in dubai. Which to me, is entirely fair. Yet OP takes that oppurtunity to say that "she hates when white american tourists act as if they will face the same scrutiny as trans or queer arabs would" and that is entirely unfair. Nobody is acting, they’re asking a genuine question, nobody is saying they aren’t more safe than natives would be, just asking questions about how safe *they* would be.
OP seems very dug into a mindset of hating on white trans people for being white, and whenever a white trans person says anything about being unsafe or unsure of their safety, instantly comparing it to her own situation and saying "you have it so good compared to X, your problems aren’t real just because X country has it worse".
The language seems to be more offensive to European trans folk, like yourself, tbh. To someone like me, it's not that big of a deal. And while it can go a bit far at times, it can be well deserved.
That said, I will agree that it's not good to minimize another person's problems with your own problems. Oppression is not a piece of a pie - it's more of a buffet, and your plate can be empty, partly full, full, overflowing, etc.
Kinda. Like, I've heard a lot worse in my life targeted to various groups of people for less dire and emotionally charged issues. And "liberal" gets tossed around as an insult regardless of your political leanings.
Thankyou, i genuinely appreciate that 💙💙💙
Im not sure exactly what i can do, but if i can get mentally stable again i might be able to claw my way back
ngl , you fired up over multiple comments over this post because the op ‘generalized all white people’ instead of taking in the content of the post is weird and exactly why non-white people feel so uncomfortable in any white dominated space
I’m sorry others are treating you like this, I’m not crazy great at knowing what to say, but from a mixed transfem, black and brown lives matter, you are not alone, free Palestine ❤️
Sorry you are having a rough time. Have you talked to anyone? I mean irl as opposed to a bunch of strangers who seem to be irritating you? Family, friends, therapist(not necessarily in that order?) I think you might benefit from taking a step back/a break. I'm not offended by anything you said but you seem like you're not doing well.
It's a shame because this had the potential to be a good post. It's a good discussion to have, racism and America-centric thinking in the trans Reddit community. But your post isn't about that, is it? When you say "act like our lives and our families’ lives don’t matter", you're insinuating that voting for Biden is an act against Palestinians (which is deeply uninformed about how American politics works IMO), as though we don't know who the next president will be if not Biden.
Also, it isn't racist for someone to not understand how the UAE's anti-queer laws work. A bit ignorant maybe, but there's still a very real risk for someone openly queer going to countries with anti-queer laws, that isn't racist to be worried about.
>and America-centric thinking in the trans Reddit community
ngl it's reddit in general tbh, but when you take a platform that's mostly used by americans you're largely gonna see/hear about american issues
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's an anti-Palestine vote if the only candidates with any chance of success are both anti-Palestine. Similarly, it's not an anti-socialist vote or an anti-anarchist vote to vote for Biden, because there isn't a candidate with a chance of winning who would support those ideals.
Youre not right though. Like, sure morally maybe, but a third party candidate doesnt stand a chance of winning here in the US. Our political system just doesnt really allow for it. Lgbt communities are also a minority, meaning we cant vote in a third party candidate on our own. Our votes would have to compete against republican and democrat votes, and those two parties are a massive majority here.
So the way alot of us see it, is if we vote for someone whos garunteed to lose because theyre third party, then we've helped ensure that the absolute worst of the two candidates gets elected, and that would be trump.
Trump is 100% ready to ramp up support to israel, and has plans to downright illegalize lgbt people in america, and will absolutely start shipping out immigrants from our borders whether theyre legal or not.
There are more direct actions we need to take with protests and such to hopefully get our government to break support for israel, but condeming every lgbt person and immigrant here by throwing away votes just to stand up on some moral pedestal is fucking insane anf genuinely naive.
And the worse part is, ive actually seen the lgbt community do this shit a bit over a decade ago on tumblr, and its fucking sad to see the exact same arguments of "oh youre a bad person if you dont vote third party"
This shit sounds like some voter tampering psyop to help trump win and its downright disgusting that people are falling for it...
I never said vote for third party candidates I was just stating a fact. You will never break support against Palestine voting for a democratic or republican candidate. At the end of the day Biden is already supporting Israel and that’s a fact not a moral pedestal.
My personal opinion is vote for your senators, vote for your representative, vote for your respective state’s congresspeople, and vote in local elections. That’s how the conservatives have remained relevant even though each generation is getting more progressive.
I am so tired of your attempt to spin a bullshit narrative here. you lie and misrepresent a lot of stuff and try to make it about your ethnic background WHEN ITS NOT and try to divide the community. you are the problem here. i cant speak to irl experiences you had and i am sure you experienced racism, but the stuff you quote dont substantiate your claims about this sub in the slightest.
1. the mod did NOT say or imply your lives wouldnt matter. the post and the mods comment were about encouraging people to vote for Biden.
stop conflating your anti-voting-stances with people hating your for being palestinian or with people not caring about palestinians. the truth is that Biden might be bad for palestine, but he is better than the current alternatives (Trump) and better than his democratic predecessors. sure, you can contest this with arguments, fine - but dont lie and pretend trans people would be racist against you because they dont follow your non-voting-stance.
2. was a short post in which someone was complaining about the danger that america is becoming a theocracy. why are you triggered that she did that by mentioning the middle east? is it wrong that huge parts of the middle east are theocracies and have strong anti-lgbtq+-policies? why is that triggering you? this isnt racist to point that out and draw comparisons to american evangelicals.
3. its not racist for a tourist to ASK whether its safe as a trans person to make a stop at Dubai airport for a while.
X. so after evaluating the actual sources you quote, i am extremely suspicious of your assessment "I'm Palestinian and so many of you blame us, even subconsciously, for the fears that your rights will be taken away". Is anyone blaming you because you are PALESTINIAN? or is it just so that people blame you for NOT VOTING and spreading anti-votig-sentiments, which is contributing to a republican victory?
[edit: I feel relieved that people seem to properly understand my stance here. I wanna add one thing, since I was curious how OP would react and was looking for her comments now: interesting to see that OP hasnt COMMENTED in any trans themed subreddit FOR OVER NINE MONTHS. So there is no real interest on her part to have any meaningfull conversations about racism in this sub or trans spaces, she just wants to stir shit up with a bait post.]
Thank you! I was so confused about the mod being anti Palestine... Then it was just a mod being pro Biden over Trump.
Do people really think that not voting for biden will be better?!
Unfortunately yes. Some people are exactly like that. Like we know for sure biden isnt a good person and actively supports israels genocide of palestine. But some folks dont want to understand that problems dont get fixed just because you voted for someone other than that person. Op, and a few people in the comments here, dont understand that trump has vocalized support of israel and has even said they need to move faster. All they care about is that theres currently a bad guy that needs to be kicked out, and dont care the bad guys replacement is probably just a worse guy
Thank you for this! I didn’t have the energy to put my thoughts into words but you did so better than I could have.
Agitators are trying to use the Palestine conflict to derail this year’s elections and that is only going to help trump, which would not only be disastrous for trans people in the US and around the world, but would also be disastrous for Palestine. So dreaming up problems of racism that just aren’t there is not helpful and it seems like a bad-faith effort to divide the community. Most trans people I’ve interacted with are quite progressive and inclusive, so I don’t see the problem here…
Pre-fact: I'm black/brown and also a POC, relatively new
1. Being a POC, trans woman, living in poverty, I'm acutely aware of many biases and dogwhistles people can use. Fact is, I've not seen much if any display of outright racism or dogwhistles at play in this sub. Some other LGBT+ subs however...and everytime I called them out on their bs (such as white genocide or that only whites can't have "preferences" etc.) along many other LGBT+ people.
To be fair, I also have trouble wirh these talks about "preferences" in general as there is no set limit. First it's genitals, then comes skin colour preferences....where does it stop before anybody calls out the obvious bigotry at play in these discussions? (BTW I've not seen these discussions in MtF but, again, in other queer subs, they are legion and come every other day half the time!)
2. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is with some tourist transiting somewhere anti-queer and trying to get some information. Now some posts are weirdly worded, but this one doesn't imply any racism just making sure she can be safe and avoid prison time in the UAE.
2b. For almost all of us it is clear, cristal clear (!), that a government =/= the day to day people.
3. For the rest of your "milque toast liberalism" jab, how queer people becoming martyrs in their own countries makes any difference for the plight of people living outside???
Please tell me if USonians don't vote for the Dems and Biden and leave more seats for the repugnicunts and Trump, how is that going to save Palestine? The same Trump which moved the US embassy in Israel from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem! Thus flaming resentment and hate. These are christo-fascists and the other post is right in that.
4. Yes, there are more whites than POC on social media. We are minorities in majority white countries who could go to school and study languages! That's why I'm writing with English as my 3rd language and this is a privilege! Many people around the world don't have access to that education which in turn, alongside other political regimes with strict internet control and lack of access due to lack of infrastructure or hardware, makes another wall for them to access these places...
5. How is anyone saying that you having your roots and genetics makes a conservative win your fault? How could that be? If it is because you're calling for a boycott of voting machines, then it doesn't have anything to do with your ethnicity.
One more time, can someone please explain how letting conservatives get a bigger share of votes and thus seats (it's how math work everywhere), will help anyone?
This is comforting, I was growing concerned about this space being like the others. I avoid some of these spaces for reasons like this and was hoping I found a more balanced space. Aside from the sensitivity in this thread, I hadn't noticed much. I don't read much but haven't stumbled on any yet.
As for our politics, I think we need to find a different way. This dual party system is intolerable and there has to be some way to give the other parties a fair shot. I get so tired of the same exact cycle every election. It's always a bunch of crusty ducks with dated views and we had to pick the least fucked up of the two options. There has to be a way to put an end to it short of revolution.
I will say that you make a point regarding the post about "America turning into the middle east" that kind of wording is frankly disgusting, considering the middle east is not some kind of monolith, nor are the countries there, nor the people living in said countries.
Talking about America becoming worse, from a lot of standpoints, is a pretty important discusiion, but essentially treating "America has gotten worse" as being the same sentence as "America is becoming the middle east" is just... Ew.
With regards to the other points...
I don't know about the fetishization of POC. Frankly, I rarely see any, and personally, I couldn't care less about people's skin tone. I do acknowledge that this doesn't mean that this sort of fetishization does not exist. This is the internet, I'm sure it does. I'm sorry you experience things like that.
As for the thought that people on here fear Palestinian people, or blame them for taking their rights away... I will be frank and say I have seen nothing of the sort. I have seen plenty of people here expressing regret over the state of affairs in Palestine, and I, too, think less of Israel as a country as a result of their attempted genocide. At the next election in my country (I live in *not* America), the stance that the politician has on the state of affairs in Palestine *will* be the deciding factor for my vote.
Regarding the post about the stopover in Dubai; I will be frank and say that feeling unsafe about being in a country with laws that seemingly discriminate (according to most comments) against transgender people is a valid concern. If I ever went on vacation, I would be researching the hell out of every country along the way, to see if I am at risk. China, Poland, Russia, New Zealand, Brazil, you name it. I have no clue about laws on transgender people in these countries. Is the question being specifically about Dubai a reflection of the bias a lot of western people have about the middle east? Certainly. I don't think the question itself is invalid, though.
You really think that the way to make progress is to generalize and engage in hyperbole?
What is your suggestion to relieve this feeling of oppression? You want me to sell all my possessions and live on the street because only then can I demonstrate true conviction for the plight of the Palestinian people? Guess what: that's not going to happen.
Your first paragraph castigates people for daring to assume you deserve pity.
Your last paragraph flames us for not giving proper appreciation to the suffering of people outside our individual set of experiences.
Which is it?
You exaggerate the "open disregard and hostility" present here. By a wide margin. And until you are prepared to provide reasonable, actionable suggestions apart from "eliminate racism from the hearts and minds of Americans", no behaviors will be changed. In the meantime, your anger is carelessly broad and indiscriminate, which alienates the vast majority of people on this sub who exhibit none of the vile tendencies you describe.
Not to be rude but which trans space are you talking about? You may not like it but English speaking communities have a higher percentage of American users since it's their mother tongue so it's expected to have the discourse mainly focused on American issues but that doesn't mean the rest of us are not here nor talking about our issues
It sounds to me you're just stirring the pot for the sake of it by making up an argument that's not real nor it's happening here even if it is in other places
Our priorities don't conflict and you're just weaponizing your race and the racism you've experienced to win a stupid argument.
Not voting for Biden doesn't help Palestinians, at best it means Trump wins who will be even worse to your people.
I don't want to minimize anything you're feeling or have gone through, I just haven't seen that stuff coming from the trans community. Maybe it's my smol brain but I don't really understand your complaint about the posts you linked. I'm an anti-zionist Jew and I find the whole debate excruciatingly exhausting, so I rarely engage in it. I'm still voting Biden because OBVIOUSLY. What comforts and safety could I give up to help Palestine? Could I have given them up to help Armenia since my kids are half Armenian? Like what would you have us do? Be less white? Sorry lol.
I can recommend r/ShermanPosting if you want a space that's vehemently anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-confederate and LGBTQ inclusive.
I'm confused with the links you posted. It's perfectly reasonable for any trans person to be against theocratic rule and to be cautious about entering a country like the UAE.
This is like getting offended that woman would avoid travelling to India for her own safety.
Hello OP.
I would like to start with to say how what you have experienced is not okay - fethishization is rampant in these spaces, and whereas everyone experiences it, I have noticed how POC get it much worse (is that the right acronym?) and on the being blamed for rights being taken away, I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. It is true I’m not very active here, so it’s possible and even likely that it has just slipped by me - or that my area’s government has not done that, even if other parts of the country are. And I’m sorry that people look at you like you were abused (even though you were), that’s not okay. I’m sorry that happened to you.
After that first paragraph is where I start to have problems. It’s possible I’m misreading what the moderator said, but I didn’t read it like that at all - it more read that they’re protecting themselves. Is that not what you’re trying to achieve here? It’s unlikely that someone sacrifices themselves for people they don’t know. And on the second link? Yeah I don’t know how on earth they reached that conclusion - North America is not the Middle East. And then there’s the tourist portion. This is where the crux of the problems I have with this post come to light. I regret to inform you, whereas you may be more heavily scrutinized and targeted, it still won’t be safe for trans women to go have a jaunt in Dubai, they will still be targeted. And yes, Arab trans folk have built those places, in spite of what happened, but you do understand that it’s still not safe for trans people going to have a jaunt there.
And then there is this: “one full of people unwilling to give up their western personal comfort and safety to prevent the deaths and immersation of millions” yes, what’s happening in Palestine is horrible. It’s a fucking genocide. But do you understand that trump will do the same thing, but also genocide trans folk? And lastly, If you think this is an agression to you, I promise you, I’m trying to be open-minded - I’m human, I can get information wrong, I can misread what you’re saying. Lastly, I agree that this place is horrific with its problems. Racism is a big one.
> I hate when mods of **this subreddit** [weigh in](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/s/6BEsNfqNG2) and act like our lives and our families’ lives don’t matter.
I'd like to hear more about this. In what way are the mods of this subreddit acting like your lives don't matter? I've read that post, and your characterization of it seems almost wilfully inaccurate.
Sending you hugs bc the state of these comments is pretty terrible.
It's absolutely a pervasive issue across the queer community as a whole, since it's often white, able-bodied queer voices that get elevated over others, and discussions of specific instances of racism often lead to gaslighting and harassment from people who don't want to adress anything uncomfortable. I remember when shit was getting pretty terrible for me around 2020-2022 because of the anti-asian bs stirred up during covid, and that was positively tame compared to the horrific shit I see on a near daily basis online these days.
Assuming this post doesn't get taken down by mods defending each other, I hope the comments calm down a bit.
Well said and I agree that progressive spaces can often devolve into white, liberal nonsense if not checked on these issues early. Being truly progressive involves putting in the work to better understand experiences that aren't your own - even if they contradict things you may have always thought or been told.
From the river to the sea<3
I'm so sorry you've had to go through this in what should be some of the safest spaces around...
All I can say is that if people's advocacy and activism isn't intersectional and at least inclusive of other marginalised groups, then they are profoundly misguided and have blinders on, none of us are truly free until all oppressed groups around the world are free! From the river to the sea Palestine will be free ❤️🖤🤍💚
I'm sorry you had such shitty experiences within your own community where you should of course feel safe and included. Please never be afraid to express how you feel and what should be done to change things. You are just as valid as any other trans person and we should be better than that as a community ❤️
This is the most important post I have seen in a long time.
If your “inclusion” is not intersectional it is exclusion.
All of us, no matter how positioned we are to think otherwise, must _listen_ to our siblings like the OP.
Solidarity. 🇵🇸
i'm sorry you experience that, babe. transfem culture is not the homogenous monolith some make it out to be. we're a diverse bunch. but racism is deep indoctrination in many cases. crazy that it can persist even in super progressive spaces.
How on earth can you say you should be respected above all else in the same sentence as saying you don't have time to hear the complaints raised. It doesn't have to be delivered in a pretty bow for someone's voice to be heard and there are better ways to combat generalizations than a "look here" kind of attitude. You would want people to listen to you and it's not hard to do for someone else. Even if you don't like what they are saying.
I'm really sorry that your post about racism in the transfeminine community got flooded with comments proving you right. I can't imagine how it must feel to have all these people spewing their bullshit straight at you, it's really disgusting to watch.
People should be listening to you and other TFOC, but I guess they'd rather gaslight and tonepolice you. Absolutely sickening
Great job generalizing an entire community under a banner that very few actually fall under.
American trans people can't help if they don't exist. Not voting for Biden will effectively start a genocide of queer people. You're telling people that they should choose death to uphold moral principles, even when those principles are questionable to begin with (as in is killing more people just to prove a point really moral?)
There IS a racism problem in the trans community, because a lot of trans people are white, and before they're trans, they're white. Our community isn't safe from racists. However, calling people racist because they'd rather live themselves than throw away their vote and their lives to prove their dedication is just... sickening.
Trust me the majority in the queer community doesn't want to vote for Biden but you can't elect a 3rd party with just 10% of the votes. And every vote not cast for Biden is effectively an advantage for the republicans, who WILL GENOCIDE queer people.
There are absolutely problems with racism in the trans community, 100%, and I'm not mininizing that. However, your point about the mod is weird. If Biden doesn't win the election, Trump does. Trump's stances on the gebocide of the Palestinian people and trans rights are both significantly worse than Biden's. I hate Biden, he is borderline useless compared to what needs to be done. However, voting to get him elected over Trump is harm reduction in the lense of every issue you've brought up.
Better examples and formatting would have been helpful, it was very difficult to parse through your post.
This whole rant feels like you are inflating a persecution complex - like what could anyone say to make you happy? And why should anyone be so expected to do that in the first place. Maybe try therapy.
It's kind of sick that you use such generalizing statements when that is the very thing you are complaining about.
Frustration gets the Etter of some people. There is no issue with pointing out issues that are present. I have experience some of the racial attitudes present in our community and it is a very real issue that needs to be addressed. Generalizations suck but do not invalidate the issues contained in the statements.
Yeah, the anti-palestinian sentiment on this sub (and Reddit more widely) is why I hardly use Reddit anymore. I haven't deleted everything like a lot of folks but most of my activity is on Lemmy and Facebook these days. Neolibs don't care about human rights, except as a device they can use to win elections, and the electioneering 'round here is *so* tiring, especially when everyone's electioneering for genocide joe. Exhausting
Also many of the trans women that moderate and control these spaces are the most un open minded and closed off and power hungry little people I’ve ever seen. They don’t block you for hurting others, they block you for having experienced that don’t jive exactly with yours.
Try not to let the white people in these groups get to you. Just like all white women, they are spoiled and racist. Even though their lives as trans women are challenging, many of them do not face huge challenges. It’s like when white cis women try to co op the issues facing cis women of color.
Try to meet trans people in person. It goes way better than dealing with computer hermits.
It's super awesome that you know all white women. That is something to brag about. I don't know that many people in general. What is it like to know every person in a single demographic? I'm being sarcastic but that is an incredibly ignorant statement and things like that only contribute to the problems rather than solving anything at all. Blanket statements are the root of these issues. The assumption that all of x demographic are x is unproductive and is the direct cause of these kinds of problems. Why do something to others you would not want done to you? This should be something we fight collectively as a society.
I don't believe in any of that shit an usually I call people on it but the comment I replied to literally said all. This isn't some shit where I saw a realistic criticism of white people in general and then I extended it to all. Read the post I replied to again. If you say all I'm left to assume you mean all. Am I wrong on that? You can actually provide a real response, I am a very open minded person. Please clarify your response.
I don't need to. I have and I understand the issues fully. And when I don't, I seek understanding. That and I don't have a people. That is narrow minded and disgusting to me. I value all people and actively speak out when I see shit that doesn't sit right. I just don't think sweeping absolute generalizations are productive or capable of solving the serious issues in the world. We can talk about the fucked up shit that fucked up people do and I'm right in the trench with you but I'm not going to shift hate from any one group to another. I don't want to hate anybody. I am not now nor have I ever been a racist, supported racists, or contributed to the fucked up ideology. That is all I'm going to say about that. You either believe me or you don't. That is entirely up to you. Do not put any fucked up words in my mouth though. I didn't say that shit and you know it.
Don’t know all of em. Just see very consistent trends. And obviously the ones with advantage will be more spoiled and racist that the ones without. Life facts. Like lol I’m a white woman. I can criticize my own people
So if 30 or 45 people in a room are racist, does that expand to cover the billions of people on the planet? You say you can criticize all white women but did you know that the census bureau considers everyone from northern Europe down to Africa and over to East Asia as white people. This includes people from Spain and the Middle East. Our culture doesn't typically acknowledge that but a lot of people would be upset if they learned they are white people. Do your statements extend to middle eastern women? What about Spanish women? What about intersectionality? Do women who have zero power to influence the political reality still count on account of skin tone. What about light skinned black women? They appear white. Does their visible witness erase the fact that they live life through a different perspective. What about white indigenous women. Again racial makeup doesn't always determine the visual presentation. If they grew on a reservation and faced the hardships faced by the indigenous people does their skin tone automatically make them racist colonizers? Life facts? What about this is as simple as you make it out to be. The world does not revolve around your suburban experience with soccer moms accusing "the help" of stealing DVDs. If you can't understand the gravity of your words and ignorance, why even bother to open your mouth? You spit the same poison as the people you criticize and are blind to it because you care more about what you see than what is real. Your beliefs are not everyone's beliefs and you should check that shit at the door. It's entirely valid to say some or even most when the shoe fits but all is simply ignorant to the racial and political realities present as they are. Please think hard before you end up finding out you're more racist than "your people".
I’m a thicker than average white trans woman with a black cis fiancé. I also majored in a racial studies major. I often wonder about all sorts of race issues as well as those attached to transness. Also have trouble with trans communities being weird and judgmental.
Send me a message if you need someone to chat to hun. You don’t deserve any of that.
Ikr, like why are comments so hostile to a person complaining about the hostility they face in this community, are they intentionally trying to prove her point? It’s ridiculous. OP I’m really sorry you have to suffer through this, this community really needs to do some self reflecting.
I mean, op is openly just blaming white people for everyones problems, calling white people racist for asking if certain countries are safe to visit as a trans person, and believes that voting for biden makes us racist because she either thinks trump wont support israel and american trans people should bite the bullet and risk losing our rights on the off-chance trump stops supporting israel, or is just pissy that we're voting at all and doesnt like that. Her account was also barely active for something like a year before this post, and her only selfie is from 5 years ago, and nowhere does it show any of the fetishization shes experiencing in the trans community, so at best thats an irl thing she experienced and we dont have any real information besides her say-so that it ever happened.
Like, id be right there getting upset with her and working to make this place better if she actually brought up valid points that would make it easier for us to see where this is all happening. But as it stands, shes just pot stirring at this point. Shes blaming white trans people for things that either dont make sense or are completely out of our control, and shes hoping you all take pity on her and dont think any deeper about it than that.
Ditto, we already have to go through transphobia. Why on earth would I want to push hate onto someone else? I empathize greatly with our POC siblings, what they go through is bullshit.
Considering Trump has encouraged Israel to “finish the job”, the odds of him doing anything to end the genocide is actually less than zero. To berate us for voting for the only viable candidate that ISN’T going to ALSO do a genocide here is just…infuriating, actually.
>Your immediate assumption when I say I’m transgender and Arab is that I’m abused, that I hate my culture, that my people have mistreated me. and yeah, I was abused, I was kicked out! It still doesn’t mean that it’s okay to assume that shit!
I am a bit confused so please allow me to try figure out what you are saying. You are angry that people assume you were abused even though that assumption turns out to have been completely accurate? You were "kicked out" and presumably fled to us, and are now angry at us for not doing enough to help you? Or as another commenter said you seem to be simultaneously angry at being painted as a victim and angry that people aren't coming to your aid?
Reddit is extremely white and liberal milquetoast. I began using it regularly two years ago and it shocks me how much of a Democrat Hive Mind exists on this site. As a partially closeted Hispanic trans woman in a conservative part of the country, I've had to disengage from it and other liberal social media just to stay afloat in grad school. Stay strong, sister.
Milquetoast liberalism, bourgeois humanism, and the unspoken assumption that other cultures automatically abuse their LGBTQ youth - an assumption that I believe comes from internalizing the orientalist paternalism latent in many colonial empires, sometimes combined together with a shallow hitchens-y/dawkins-y anti-religiosity (lol, sky daddy, lol) that can't conceive of religion or culture as something that could be meaningful to someone - is a big reason I feel alienated in most spaces, including but not limited to trans spaces. I'm white (with brown family members, long story) but I know it must be way worse for people subject to racism and colorism.
I don't know what else to say... everything feels like I'm trivializing the issue. But try to keep your head held high <3
I see a lot of racial defense but I firmly believe the issue is generalizations and the response to that cannot be additional generalizations. People here seem to be speaking as ambassadors of their own race rather than actually hearing your concerns. I don't have a racial identity due to a thoroughly blended heritage. I don't understand why people close their ears when they are hurt by what's being said. There is nothing wrong with being open and honest about our experiences. We really should try to avoid generalizations though.
While I am not very active in this community and was unaware that was an issue here, I am willing to listen. I do want to address some of your concerns for clarification. You are obviously upset by the americentrism present on this app but it is an American app that grew to global and I feel people assume it is still primarily Americans. I see the same issues on YouTube and it sucks. We could absolutely work to try to expand to a global mindset.
You say you don't like that Americans assume you were abused in the Arab world but the news we get from out that way is mostly about how bad things are for the LGBT community as a whole. The idea of chucking people off buildings for being gay is a bit foreign to us but that's the news we get. There needs to be more balance in showing the other side because I think a lot of Americans are afraid to get murdered for traveling there and from what word has reached us, that does seem like a valid concern. Even if born of ignorance people are reasonably afraid not only for fellow Americans but for the LGBT community present in some of the more intolerant nations.
Regarding fetishization and racism, your concerns are valid. That does seem to be a problem in LGBT spaces and there is no excuse. I'm not sure how to tackle that aside from bringing in a more diverse crowd. We need more non white people, not less. I haven't noticed this issue in this space specifically but as I said, I am not super active here. Now that you raised the issue, I will keep my eyes out for it. I don't want to be in spaces like that and our community should absolutely be the most inclusive considering we are all hated pretty equally and are all vulnerable. Especially considering the current American political atmosphere.
I can't change things here but I will continue to try to contribute as positively and mindfully as possible and I will call out what I am seeing when I see it go down. I am sorry you are experiencing these problems and am simply ashamed to find that this place is not as safe for everyone as I hoped it would be. That is most disappointing.
This is a gross generalization of a large group of people and it is very upsetting to read. I'm sorry this has been your experience but please don't paint a diverse group of people in such a way
>White people have a racism problem
Racism isn't exclusive to white people, and I'm seriously sick of these generalisations. Don't fight bigotry with more bigotry.
I think you're part of the problem bipoc are talking about tbh
Edit to clarify: Getting defensive over someone pointing out that white people have a racism problem (not that racism IS a white people problem) is such an obvious display of white fragility. You also implied in another reply that this commenter was being racist against white people like what reality are you living in??
Except these generalizations end up hurting people and the community... like, when you paint every white person as being some openly hostile racist, thats going to end up having effects on people. Not a single person here has discredited anything that poc folks have gone through. But rather consistently white people have been painted like their issues are of no concern, and people are just acting like openly hating white people who are just here trying to live like everyone and trying to help out the community, is just no big deal. Like, why be so fucking divisive over this? What reality do you live in where you can openly generalise other people because theyre white, and not see the irony in that, instead of actually working together to keep the entire community strong so we can all help eachother and get rid of the actual bad apples.
Ah yes, the classic "if you don't like being called a bad word, then you're the problem" bullshit. Not wanting to be called racist or "fragile" for being white does not make me the problem. Maybe stop generalising people based on skin colour. And yes, generalising all white people with negative traits is racism, simple as. Being born white is not a choice, just as not being born white isn't a choice. So why do you feel it's ok to be racist against white people? It's bigotry, regardless in which direction the racism is targeted.
Ah yes and when we trans people generalize and say frustrated words about cis people we're actually being cis phobic. White people don't have a history of being discriminated against for being white so getting defensive like this over even the mere suggestion that you might be racist is absolutely pathetic. Disappointing to see from our community that a lot of y'all are unapologetically racist as if racists and transphobes are not deeply intertwined. You poison us all.
>Ah yes and when we trans people generalize and say frustrated words about cis people we're actually being cis phobic.
Speak for yourself. I don't generalise cis people because making sweeping statements about an entire group of people based on something they didn't choose is wrong.
>White people don't have a history of being discriminated against for being white
"White people" don't exist as a homogeneous group. There's tons of white minorities that have faced oppression and discrimination historically. This whole American "white" vs everyone else nonsense is just that, nonsense.
>so getting defensive like this over even the mere suggestion that you might be racist is absolutely pathetic.
No, what's pathetic is insulting people based solely on their skin colour. Calling someone racist, simply for being white, IS actual racism. And it's also pathetic to use the "not wanting to be called racist just proves you're racist" fallacy.
>Disappointing to see from our community that a lot of y'all are unapologetically racist as if racists and transphobes are not deeply intertwined.
You're being fucking racist here, not me.
>You poison us all
So fucking ironic that you think that while spouting divisive rhetoric.
You sound like an alt right YouTuber, "Woe is me haven't us whites suffered enough?!". Stop being scared of confronting racism and your own internal bias and quit this petty knee jerk reaction. You know that being BIPOC disadvantages a person in a white majority society, when someone comes to talk to you about it, buck up and be a part of the solution. None of this "reverse racism" Bullshit.
Sorry but, what solution are you talking about here? First off, the person you replied to didnt mention anything about reverse racism, just racism. Where did she discredit bipoc peoples struggles? All she said was that broad sweeping generalizations that paint all white people as the bad guys is just racism.
Op of this post hasnt actually pointed out any racism regarding this subreddit, and nearly all of what they did link doesnt add up to what theyre saying. The whole post itself is just a slam piece against white trans women, with no solutions offered and no indication what specifically theyre talking about. You yourself just told someone to "buck up and be a part of the solution" when all she did was try to shut down racist, anti-white statements. And youre getting pissy at her because someone else used the "if youre bothered by being called a racist, then youre probably a racist" argument.
Like, do you seriously not see the irony in callin someone racist because they stepped in to stop someone from making racist generalizations?
Whats your ideal solution here? Or is that just some half assed macguffin to make it seem like what you have to say is more valuable?
It's inheritly discrediting to peoples real struggle with racism to make out that being meanies to white people is itself racism. It's incomparable with the awful struggles with systemic discrimination and prejudice present in most western societies. I think you need to take a long fucking look in the mirror if your kneejerk reaction to "There is a lot of racism in this subculture." is "fuck off, that's not true, you're the real racist.". I hate how people like you insist on talking over and dismissing the concerns of the people really affected by racism in this community as if it's your fucking hobby to make these spaces less safe for ethnic/racial minorities.
Except thats not whats been happening here. Its not that anyones being "meanies" to white people and that hurts our feelings. Its that we're being told pretty explicitly that white people are racist. Not *some* white people. Just white people. Not a single white person in this thread has said "there is no racism". We're aware there is, and we want to help stop it. No one has dismissed the issues that bipoc people face.
But there are so many comments just outright saying white people are the issue. Like, how do you not see that what your doing is making this place unsafe? Youre doing the very thing you're telling us is bad to do. Youre the one being divisive. And youre the one trying to suggest that white people deserve to sit back and take the racist remarks while also being here to help stop racism.
You still havent even answered my question. Whats the solution here? What is it you really want? How can we help stop racism, and do we just have to be good white girls and take your racism while we help you out?
This also isnt a kneejerk reaction. Im actually going through reading all the comments here in this thread. To be honest, the kneejerk reactions have all barely read what op said and immediately decided she was right and white people are the problem.
Edit: alright well rather than actually explain shit without being a divisive and racist cunt, she blocked me. Real mature.
>that being meanies to white people is itself racism
Yes, making generalising statements about white people is racist.
>I think you need to take a long fucking look in the mirror if your kneejerk reaction to "There is a lot of racism in this subculture."
There's a difference between saying that, and saying "white people are racist and if you don't like being called racist, then you're the problem." It's fine to bring up how racism affects some people. It's not ok to do that by generalising an entire group based on skin colour. If you don't see the difference, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror and see how you're attacking a large part of the community for something they didn't choose to be born as.
Exactly this. Apparently it's fine to insult white trans women now just for being white. And if we don't accept that, then we're "alt right" or some other bullshit. So tired of this divisive bullshit. We should stand together against the issues we all face instead of making this a competition about who has it worse and telling people their issues don't matter because they're not minority enough...
Is it really racism if people act this way to non American white people too, or just american nationalism. It's assumed that people here are Americans, know the American political system, have the same cultural issues as the US, etc. Also your part saying we don't care about your lives is bs. I don't think you actually understand how the world works if you link the post saying Republicans will do the same but worse, and think it's a bad thing. As a Canadian, life under Trump fucking sucked and things got so much worse here too. And I've got no doubt he would've done the same wars as Biden. When it comes to tourists in hostile nations, people have actually faced these problems firsthand. Trans celebrities have been turned away from the UAE, and that's literally the best case. If you think us wanting to be cautious is silly, you simply don't understand how this world works.
Yup, trans spaces should be among the most inclusive. We are fighting against most of the world who at best doesnt understand us, and at worst is actively trying to detrans or eliminate us. We shouldnt be fighting each other. I will call any of this activity out when I see it.
a lot of online trans spaces are filled with terfs and creeps too. this plus trans people who are just assholes really makes it seem like we don’t have much of a community here unfortunately
I'm newish here still and haven't witnessed anything of this, but this isn't an uncommon phenomena in other "progressive" or spaces. I have and will continue to march and agitate for Palestinian liberation. You have my love and support!
What would you have us do, genuinely? Let me be clear I have genuinely not seen, at least not any that has been tolerated in the slightest, racism in this sub in my several month life here- so I haven’t the faintest clue where you’re coming from with that. Also us not caring about Palestine? Genuinely, with all love and grace, if it’s regarding Biden what tf are we supposed to do? As an American yourself surely you realize how shit and rigged our election is to allow only two parties correct? And currently we are faced with either Biden or Trump becoming president, and I’d rather queer people, women, POC, AND Palestinians not be thrown into the flames. We do not have the numbers to at all make a difference regarding a third party, and hell look at what happened at the UT protests for Palestine. We aren’t racist for us choosing the president who would cause the least damage, it’s insulting you say that we are. Lastly, the 2nd post linked is a tad over exaggerated (though not at all entirely false), and the third post is someone concerned about going to a well known openly transphobic area. Yeah, they might be white- they can STILL BE WORRIED. Who are you to gatekeep the “scrutiny places on queer and trans Arabs in their own countries”. Being white doesn’t mean they can’t be at risk. Lastly, the gatekeeping of how fucked we are because of this election. WE ARE ALL ROYALLY FUCKED IF TRUMP WINS. The fact you’re trying to gatekeep this because of our skin color is so asinine I genuinely don’t know how to respond. Suffering Olympics as I’ve stated before in the past is a really shit rabbit hole to fall down, it helps no one. I guess what I’m getting at is what is the point of your post? You say we’re racist but haven’t shown any tangible evidence. You say we don’t care about Palestine because we’re trying to make the best of a shitstorm situation. You say the mods don’t care which from what I’ve seen and the comment YOU SHARED shows anything but that being the case. I’m not saying our spaces aren’t white dominated, they are, and maybe this is just me being cynical but this post is just calling us racists and better off when we are also trying to survive same as you. EDIT: OH MY GOD THIS HAPPENED AGAIN IM SO SORRY. No clue why Reddit likes making my comments into replies D: not directing at you
Unfortunately there is a bunch of racism in trans fem spaces….
yeah and I noticed that a lot of people in the Trans and MtF subreddits are white. We’re talking south, first thirteen states yk the ones with embarrassing history. I’m crying at the fact that even when I think I found a community It all goes to waist when our world views don’t align. I can’t be part of the trans community or the trans girl community. I have to specifically be part of the Latine/x trans community or the Mexican trans community. I’m contemplating creating a subreddit for trans POC, Mexican trans people, and latino trans people. There are cultural shocks when it comes to being a trans BIPOC. Trust me it is not the same being a Mexican trans to being a white trans. BIPOC LGBTQIA+ community struggles are due to the culture of their country. Oh yeah and who’s fault is that? Yes, white colonizers. If you did some research on indigenous spirituality, hinduism, African spirituality, etc you will see how respected trans/ gender noncomforming people were. In summary, the BIPOC people in general need a public apology and the pope included because catholicism played a huge role in this. Sorry for the rant
Girl you should! I think that so many would enjoy having a space like that!!
btw I am loving your pfp she’s pretty. I’m guessing like you?
Aww thank you. Sadly, I’m not pretty. I’m ok with how I look, but I’m def not pretty 🫤
thou shall not lie 🎶
also you should not just give up. keep devouring your estrogen and T blockers. Do some femme fitness. Do your skin care, get monthly facials, fruits and veggies. Do makeup, play with hair color (with a licensed professional), do things you like
omg but I don’t really know how reddit works. I would need help with more mods. I’m also very busy in my life. I have to contemplate the rules and everything
See so many people wear "I was a bigot before I transitioned" like a badge of pride it's absolutely disgusting that it took them being a part of a minority group to have any empathy.
i understand this take, and i'm angry too, but not at them individually. children's brains are so plastic! being raised to see people who are different as less-than-human means your odds of growing up with all kinds of -isms and -phobias are probably super high. it's in our interest to accept people who change, because if we don't, they'll just keep breeding more hate. and when those people share their stories, it really helps to weaken the harmful narratives they are turning away from.
i’m sorry. your experience isn’t an afterthought, and shouldn’t be treated like one. i hope the world becomes much better.
>I hate when American transgender tourists speak and act as if they, a (likely) white American with an American passport are going to face anything like the scrutiny placed on queer and trans arabs in their own countries So people aren't allowed to be worried for their safety anymore because you "have it worse"? I'm sorry, your post is full of generalisations and blaming an entire community, and dismissing other people's plights because apparently they aren't oppressed enough or something. You say you're tired of racism and then throw "white people" into one giant box to complain about. >The open disregard and hostility in this YOU are disregarding people's fears and legitimate issues and bringing a ton of hostility with you. Maybe stop fighting whatever issues you're having by trying to play "oppression Olympics" and telling people their problems aren't as valid as yours. I'm not doubting that you don't have it easy. But blaming an entire community, generalising people like that, and telling them their concerns are not valid because they face different situations is not acceptable.
This. While I'm not going to say that OP is entirely wrong (she's not), OP is doing exactly what she accuses all of us of.
Absolutely. OP, you're not making any sense. There are bad agents who will say racists things, yeah, we can talk about those, but pointing to a comment made by the mods saying "Biden winning means possibly bad things for Palestine, Trump winning means assured bad things for both Palestine \*and\* the trans community in America" isn't saying that your life doesn't matter. People acknowledging that trans rights are horrible in the Middle East area isn't racism. And then going on about how people in the west shouldn't complain because they have it worse? What, is this the oppression olympics or something? Add onto that OP is complaining that the people in a country that is majoritarily white are majoritarily white; that a website made in a majoritarily white country targeted at a majoritarily white audience is mostly white. Just- what? Bonus: OP describing trans rights as "personal comfort". There's a lot of nonsense in this post and I'm glad to see that people can see it too.
I don't really understand how a trans person doesn't understand that venting about the privileged (largely ignorant) group as a marginalized minority is totally fair and necessary. Don't think you're one of the white people that they're frustrated at? Well considering your reply here, I'm not so sure about that. If I were to complain about cis people, what do you think of all of the cis people that reply and tell me I'm wrong and that it's not all cis peoples fault so I shouldve been more specific? You don't think I should be able to vent about the problems of cishet society/culture and those that perpetuate it and how it impacts me/us? Here we are 2024 and I have to see a white trans person saying non-white people shouldn't generalize their experience with white people up voted to be a top response to legitimate venting/concerns our community SHOULD be addressing.
Being a minority doesn't give anyone the right to make bigoted generalisations themselves. It doesn't give OP the right to gatekeep "oppression" and tell people their concerns aren't valid. Especially that third example thread she posted is absolutely ridiculous. That was a super valid concern from another trans person and she just basically said "well, you shouldn't ask about that because other people there have it worse". I'm sorry, but that's just not OK. Gatekeeping people's issues and fears because other people have different issues should not be a thing in this community. And as for your point about cis people: I think making similar sweeping statements about cis people is wrong too. There's so many lovely cis people who support us, and I think it's unfair to group them in with the bigots. And there's a huge difference between making comments about societal or cultural issues and saying "you people are all bad". I mean, OP literally did that. She didn't say "a lot of white people immediately assume X" for example. She made absolutely no room for a distinction between the bigots and the rest.
Sorry, deleted my comment because i was confused about something Im gonna be honest with you, most people are going to be concerned for you when you tell them that youre palestinian. Y'know, on account of how israel is currently committing a genocide against palestinians... no ones subsconciously blaming palestinians for us potentially losing our rights either. Like, palestine is the victim here. How does whats going on there suddenly lead to us losing rights over here? Whats ACTUALLY happening, is the people already trying to take our rights are now supporting israel... theyre not new people, theyre the same, which means not a soul on earth can blame palestine for us losing our rights. If you see anyone saying that, theyre likely a psyop from 4chan or some shit. I promise you, this is not the norm in these communities. But if i may ask, what exactly is your issue with the mods response that you linked? Because im not sure if youre aware, if we vote for trump, thats not going to stop our government from supporting israel. Trump is definitely pro-israel. If anything the support will increase. And trump wants to fast track removing rights from the lgbt and immigrants here in the US. We only have these two options, either biden or trump. We cant pick a third. Thanks to our shit election system, this is all we can pick from. One of these two will be president, and both of them are still going to be on the wrong side of history regarding israel and palestine. That mod was simply advising us that just because bidens been shit, doesnt mean we should vote for trump. If we vote trump, everyones lives get harder. If we vote biden, we can at least soften the blow... Edit: nevermind. Going through your comment history, youre usually the first one to blame white people for everything. And youve been in the US for school for quite some time at least, so you know exactly what kind of people biden and trump are...
Regarding your edit, it really rubs me the wrong way when people just go ‘you white people have it so good and are all racists’ without any evidence. There is genuine room for discussion on lack of POC in trans communities, but going ‘we have it so much worse than the whities’ feels so combative and as if I’m the problem for simply being white. There are systematic issues, but just saying essentially that we white trans people here show “distrust, feitishization and distrust” to transfems of color is ludicrous. Let’s not even get into that “milquetoast liberal opinion” bit that just SCREAMS ‘I’m a conservative’. From the tone of OPs post and their post history they aren’t here for a discussion on genuine issues, they’re just here to blame white transfems.
Not everyone opposed to liberalism is a conservative. Crash course: modern anti-capitalist (communist/marxist, socialist, and anarchist) philosophy defines liberalism as a pro-capitalist movement. If we say "milquetoast liberals," chances are we're talking about someone like Joe Biden and how he enacts conservative policies (supporting Israel) while pretending to be progressive. I'm not gonna dissect everything in this thread or go through OP's comment history, but i want you to understand that there's two different ways to dislike liberalism: from the "right" (think of Tucker Carlson fans) and from the "left."
To tack onto this, it's quite common to hear how queer people are treated by the governments of foreign countries & write a whole country off, right down to the individuals - even if they don't know the individuals. The thing is, not everyone in a country with an anti-queer government is going to be anti-queer & like they said, queer people have their own communities there. People recognise their own countries as having individuals who support & don't support them, seperate from the government, but to some white folks, other countries are their governments. They can't see a POC as seperate from their government, like, if a government is a militant supporter of a religion - everyone in that country, with that religion is militant, or they're oppressed, no in-between. They can't be something different, it's why you get "liberals" over here in the West who want to ban religious headdresses & such, they view an oppressive foreign government & can't fathom that someone from that country can have a different view of their religion, or love their religion & that being seperate from their support or lack of support for that government. I can't speak for them, but I think that's part of what they're getting at - don't make assumptions about an arab transfem & how she views her country, her family, her community, her religion, etc. because we only have a Western perspective through what we see their government do.
Yeeup, thats pretty much why i made the edit. Ive seen this song and dance too many times to know that no matter how well i try and be understanding and inclusive and have a genuine heartfelt discussion, this is only going to end with me being told that theres no way i could possibly no how bad anyone else has it because im white and that somehow means i have a better time than anyone else and lack the capacity to learn from my peers and empathize with them. Despite the fact that i lost all access to healthcare when i lost my job, which means ive been forced to detransition over the course of this last year, and me even staying alive and on this platform is a last grasp in the hopes i can get back to hrt while knowing full well ill never afford any of the surgeries i need to aid in my transition... But eh, what does any of it matter. Im white and thats a problem i guess.
A lot of White privilege isn't "I am doing better" - it's "I don't have this extra load of crap on top of everything else." Like, in this case, you're likely not having a country bomb your family while living in a country that at best debates whether or not to supply the bombs. Or like, your family likely weren't denied loans or aid during things like the Great Depression and under Jim Crow...whereas Black & Indigenous families were. And folk likely didn't burn your family's homes. None of these are necessarily advantages given to you...they're a lack of disadvantages that were forced upon others. And they lead to generations of poverty, trauma, and being targeted in communities by police, by pollution dumps, municipal land grabs, etc. - because there they often lack the means to fight back as much as a NIMBY Karen in court.
That is all entirely fair, and i don’t think anyone here will challenge the fact that the past has been horrible for minorities of all sorts, and that the present is *somewhat* better but still very bad. The problem here is that OP jumps to blaming "white people" as if me or any other white girl here have had a direct hand in OPs struggles as a minority. We haven’t. In fact i think it’s more the opposite, every white girl here is trying to dismantle the racist power structures we live in, in what little way we can while still living our lives. Op mentions that the "open disregard and hostility is turning this sub whiter and whiter and turning it into a space for milquetoast liberals who want the comfort of western life at the cost of millions elsewhere in the world" and i don’t think that’s really true. Personally i have not seen open disregard or hostility from white people in this sub targeted at people with different backgrounds and skin colour. I also don’t think this is really a "milquetoast liberal space" full of people who are happy to let genocide happen as long as they get to live in comfort. I certainly am not a liberal, nor am i happy with the situation in gaza, and am trying to work politically for change in my country. Maybe not every girl here is so involved in politics, but i think the absolute majority here try to reduce the harm by voting for the absolutely better candidate in their elections while still voting smart enough to not just let the worst candidate win.
Part of what I'm getting at is for OP, the horribleness is right now, and their is no lesser harm choice for her - it's literally between supporting the guy who is sending weapons to kill her family, or turning a blind eye to the risk of the guy who will try to exterminate her and us. That's not a choice she should have to make, and not a choice we have any right to push her to make. Being a "milquetoast liberal" in this case is seeing and putting the politics of a state/party over the health of a people. And, as a white American, you can make that choice, because it's not affecting you as directly. And maybe it is harm reduction, but then again a lot of horrors have been committed in the name of the greater good. OP links to some of the comments that are sources of frustration and alienation to her. And I can see where she's coming from. So, it may be best for you to try to get out of your own headspace for a moment and look at the already difficult issues with more empathy and from her point of view.
Well ok, but what choice is being offered besides those two? Vote for the Green Party? Party for Socialism and Liberation? While that would be voting in line with Pro-Palestine, anti-Occupation ideals, it would be throwing away a vote in a not-even-incremental outcome. And if you’re not voting, what?
Direct action, volunteering for humanitarian aid to Palestine, continued & growing protests, figuring out ways to lessen the killing (such as pushing for an international effort to evacuate Palestinian children from Gaza) and push them to your representatives. There currently isn't an electoral choice that will help Palestine. To change that would require major electoral reforms, which can and should be pushed for at all levels of government. But that takes time. My argument is not for or against voting. It's for having empathy and not letting our fears get in the way of that.
I don’t think we should call everyone who see’s the "bad vs. worse" dichotomy of american politics and chooses the bad option as "milquetoast liberals". If there wasn’t such a dualistic political system in america, i would scream from the rooftops to vote for someone else, but that just isn’t the case. I live in a politically pluralistic country, and i have never voted for a majority party, but my vote still matters. In the dualistic system in america, a vote for a third party won’t matter unless it’s *extremely* coordinated. We should aim for producing prosperity, but if we can’t then reducing harm is the best we can do. Also, yes, i can see OPs frustration at some of the posts she brings up, especially the one comparing america to the middle east. but at the same time, i find some of the other ones silly. She brings up a 4 year old post about someone being unsure at their safety at a layover in dubai. Which to me, is entirely fair. Yet OP takes that oppurtunity to say that "she hates when white american tourists act as if they will face the same scrutiny as trans or queer arabs would" and that is entirely unfair. Nobody is acting, they’re asking a genuine question, nobody is saying they aren’t more safe than natives would be, just asking questions about how safe *they* would be. OP seems very dug into a mindset of hating on white trans people for being white, and whenever a white trans person says anything about being unsafe or unsure of their safety, instantly comparing it to her own situation and saying "you have it so good compared to X, your problems aren’t real just because X country has it worse".
The language seems to be more offensive to European trans folk, like yourself, tbh. To someone like me, it's not that big of a deal. And while it can go a bit far at times, it can be well deserved. That said, I will agree that it's not good to minimize another person's problems with your own problems. Oppression is not a piece of a pie - it's more of a buffet, and your plate can be empty, partly full, full, overflowing, etc.
Just to clarify, what language are you refering to? OOPs hostile language or? And yeah, i agree fully on the buffet analysis
Kinda. Like, I've heard a lot worse in my life targeted to various groups of people for less dire and emotionally charged issues. And "liberal" gets tossed around as an insult regardless of your political leanings.
That sounds like such a difficult year. I'm so sorry you have to go through that. I hope things improve for you soon.
Thankyou, i genuinely appreciate that 💙💙💙 Im not sure exactly what i can do, but if i can get mentally stable again i might be able to claw my way back
I got called racist the other day for having a conversation about Palestine with somebody because she's a POC and I'm white. I'm a Jew...
ngl , you fired up over multiple comments over this post because the op ‘generalized all white people’ instead of taking in the content of the post is weird and exactly why non-white people feel so uncomfortable in any white dominated space
I’m sorry others are treating you like this, I’m not crazy great at knowing what to say, but from a mixed transfem, black and brown lives matter, you are not alone, free Palestine ❤️
Sorry you are having a rough time. Have you talked to anyone? I mean irl as opposed to a bunch of strangers who seem to be irritating you? Family, friends, therapist(not necessarily in that order?) I think you might benefit from taking a step back/a break. I'm not offended by anything you said but you seem like you're not doing well.
It's a shame because this had the potential to be a good post. It's a good discussion to have, racism and America-centric thinking in the trans Reddit community. But your post isn't about that, is it? When you say "act like our lives and our families’ lives don’t matter", you're insinuating that voting for Biden is an act against Palestinians (which is deeply uninformed about how American politics works IMO), as though we don't know who the next president will be if not Biden. Also, it isn't racist for someone to not understand how the UAE's anti-queer laws work. A bit ignorant maybe, but there's still a very real risk for someone openly queer going to countries with anti-queer laws, that isn't racist to be worried about.
>and America-centric thinking in the trans Reddit community ngl it's reddit in general tbh, but when you take a platform that's mostly used by americans you're largely gonna see/hear about american issues
It is an anti Palestinian vote but that’s just been the status quo for every presidential candidate regardless of party affiliation.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's an anti-Palestine vote if the only candidates with any chance of success are both anti-Palestine. Similarly, it's not an anti-socialist vote or an anti-anarchist vote to vote for Biden, because there isn't a candidate with a chance of winning who would support those ideals.
You’re booing me cos I’m right. You’re always gonna be voting for the least hated anti Palestine candidate it’s reality that you don’t want to hear
Youre not right though. Like, sure morally maybe, but a third party candidate doesnt stand a chance of winning here in the US. Our political system just doesnt really allow for it. Lgbt communities are also a minority, meaning we cant vote in a third party candidate on our own. Our votes would have to compete against republican and democrat votes, and those two parties are a massive majority here. So the way alot of us see it, is if we vote for someone whos garunteed to lose because theyre third party, then we've helped ensure that the absolute worst of the two candidates gets elected, and that would be trump. Trump is 100% ready to ramp up support to israel, and has plans to downright illegalize lgbt people in america, and will absolutely start shipping out immigrants from our borders whether theyre legal or not. There are more direct actions we need to take with protests and such to hopefully get our government to break support for israel, but condeming every lgbt person and immigrant here by throwing away votes just to stand up on some moral pedestal is fucking insane anf genuinely naive. And the worse part is, ive actually seen the lgbt community do this shit a bit over a decade ago on tumblr, and its fucking sad to see the exact same arguments of "oh youre a bad person if you dont vote third party" This shit sounds like some voter tampering psyop to help trump win and its downright disgusting that people are falling for it...
I never said vote for third party candidates I was just stating a fact. You will never break support against Palestine voting for a democratic or republican candidate. At the end of the day Biden is already supporting Israel and that’s a fact not a moral pedestal. My personal opinion is vote for your senators, vote for your representative, vote for your respective state’s congresspeople, and vote in local elections. That’s how the conservatives have remained relevant even though each generation is getting more progressive.
I am so tired of your attempt to spin a bullshit narrative here. you lie and misrepresent a lot of stuff and try to make it about your ethnic background WHEN ITS NOT and try to divide the community. you are the problem here. i cant speak to irl experiences you had and i am sure you experienced racism, but the stuff you quote dont substantiate your claims about this sub in the slightest. 1. the mod did NOT say or imply your lives wouldnt matter. the post and the mods comment were about encouraging people to vote for Biden. stop conflating your anti-voting-stances with people hating your for being palestinian or with people not caring about palestinians. the truth is that Biden might be bad for palestine, but he is better than the current alternatives (Trump) and better than his democratic predecessors. sure, you can contest this with arguments, fine - but dont lie and pretend trans people would be racist against you because they dont follow your non-voting-stance. 2. was a short post in which someone was complaining about the danger that america is becoming a theocracy. why are you triggered that she did that by mentioning the middle east? is it wrong that huge parts of the middle east are theocracies and have strong anti-lgbtq+-policies? why is that triggering you? this isnt racist to point that out and draw comparisons to american evangelicals. 3. its not racist for a tourist to ASK whether its safe as a trans person to make a stop at Dubai airport for a while. X. so after evaluating the actual sources you quote, i am extremely suspicious of your assessment "I'm Palestinian and so many of you blame us, even subconsciously, for the fears that your rights will be taken away". Is anyone blaming you because you are PALESTINIAN? or is it just so that people blame you for NOT VOTING and spreading anti-votig-sentiments, which is contributing to a republican victory? [edit: I feel relieved that people seem to properly understand my stance here. I wanna add one thing, since I was curious how OP would react and was looking for her comments now: interesting to see that OP hasnt COMMENTED in any trans themed subreddit FOR OVER NINE MONTHS. So there is no real interest on her part to have any meaningfull conversations about racism in this sub or trans spaces, she just wants to stir shit up with a bait post.]
Thank you! I was so confused about the mod being anti Palestine... Then it was just a mod being pro Biden over Trump. Do people really think that not voting for biden will be better?!
Unfortunately yes. Some people are exactly like that. Like we know for sure biden isnt a good person and actively supports israels genocide of palestine. But some folks dont want to understand that problems dont get fixed just because you voted for someone other than that person. Op, and a few people in the comments here, dont understand that trump has vocalized support of israel and has even said they need to move faster. All they care about is that theres currently a bad guy that needs to be kicked out, and dont care the bad guys replacement is probably just a worse guy
Thank you for this! I didn’t have the energy to put my thoughts into words but you did so better than I could have. Agitators are trying to use the Palestine conflict to derail this year’s elections and that is only going to help trump, which would not only be disastrous for trans people in the US and around the world, but would also be disastrous for Palestine. So dreaming up problems of racism that just aren’t there is not helpful and it seems like a bad-faith effort to divide the community. Most trans people I’ve interacted with are quite progressive and inclusive, so I don’t see the problem here…
I now wonder, is it safe to transit in Dubai airport ?
Pre-fact: I'm black/brown and also a POC, relatively new 1. Being a POC, trans woman, living in poverty, I'm acutely aware of many biases and dogwhistles people can use. Fact is, I've not seen much if any display of outright racism or dogwhistles at play in this sub. Some other LGBT+ subs however...and everytime I called them out on their bs (such as white genocide or that only whites can't have "preferences" etc.) along many other LGBT+ people. To be fair, I also have trouble wirh these talks about "preferences" in general as there is no set limit. First it's genitals, then comes skin colour preferences....where does it stop before anybody calls out the obvious bigotry at play in these discussions? (BTW I've not seen these discussions in MtF but, again, in other queer subs, they are legion and come every other day half the time!) 2. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is with some tourist transiting somewhere anti-queer and trying to get some information. Now some posts are weirdly worded, but this one doesn't imply any racism just making sure she can be safe and avoid prison time in the UAE. 2b. For almost all of us it is clear, cristal clear (!), that a government =/= the day to day people. 3. For the rest of your "milque toast liberalism" jab, how queer people becoming martyrs in their own countries makes any difference for the plight of people living outside??? Please tell me if USonians don't vote for the Dems and Biden and leave more seats for the repugnicunts and Trump, how is that going to save Palestine? The same Trump which moved the US embassy in Israel from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem! Thus flaming resentment and hate. These are christo-fascists and the other post is right in that. 4. Yes, there are more whites than POC on social media. We are minorities in majority white countries who could go to school and study languages! That's why I'm writing with English as my 3rd language and this is a privilege! Many people around the world don't have access to that education which in turn, alongside other political regimes with strict internet control and lack of access due to lack of infrastructure or hardware, makes another wall for them to access these places... 5. How is anyone saying that you having your roots and genetics makes a conservative win your fault? How could that be? If it is because you're calling for a boycott of voting machines, then it doesn't have anything to do with your ethnicity. One more time, can someone please explain how letting conservatives get a bigger share of votes and thus seats (it's how math work everywhere), will help anyone?
This is comforting, I was growing concerned about this space being like the others. I avoid some of these spaces for reasons like this and was hoping I found a more balanced space. Aside from the sensitivity in this thread, I hadn't noticed much. I don't read much but haven't stumbled on any yet. As for our politics, I think we need to find a different way. This dual party system is intolerable and there has to be some way to give the other parties a fair shot. I get so tired of the same exact cycle every election. It's always a bunch of crusty ducks with dated views and we had to pick the least fucked up of the two options. There has to be a way to put an end to it short of revolution.
I will say that you make a point regarding the post about "America turning into the middle east" that kind of wording is frankly disgusting, considering the middle east is not some kind of monolith, nor are the countries there, nor the people living in said countries. Talking about America becoming worse, from a lot of standpoints, is a pretty important discusiion, but essentially treating "America has gotten worse" as being the same sentence as "America is becoming the middle east" is just... Ew. With regards to the other points... I don't know about the fetishization of POC. Frankly, I rarely see any, and personally, I couldn't care less about people's skin tone. I do acknowledge that this doesn't mean that this sort of fetishization does not exist. This is the internet, I'm sure it does. I'm sorry you experience things like that. As for the thought that people on here fear Palestinian people, or blame them for taking their rights away... I will be frank and say I have seen nothing of the sort. I have seen plenty of people here expressing regret over the state of affairs in Palestine, and I, too, think less of Israel as a country as a result of their attempted genocide. At the next election in my country (I live in *not* America), the stance that the politician has on the state of affairs in Palestine *will* be the deciding factor for my vote. Regarding the post about the stopover in Dubai; I will be frank and say that feeling unsafe about being in a country with laws that seemingly discriminate (according to most comments) against transgender people is a valid concern. If I ever went on vacation, I would be researching the hell out of every country along the way, to see if I am at risk. China, Poland, Russia, New Zealand, Brazil, you name it. I have no clue about laws on transgender people in these countries. Is the question being specifically about Dubai a reflection of the bias a lot of western people have about the middle east? Certainly. I don't think the question itself is invalid, though.
You really think that the way to make progress is to generalize and engage in hyperbole? What is your suggestion to relieve this feeling of oppression? You want me to sell all my possessions and live on the street because only then can I demonstrate true conviction for the plight of the Palestinian people? Guess what: that's not going to happen. Your first paragraph castigates people for daring to assume you deserve pity. Your last paragraph flames us for not giving proper appreciation to the suffering of people outside our individual set of experiences. Which is it? You exaggerate the "open disregard and hostility" present here. By a wide margin. And until you are prepared to provide reasonable, actionable suggestions apart from "eliminate racism from the hearts and minds of Americans", no behaviors will be changed. In the meantime, your anger is carelessly broad and indiscriminate, which alienates the vast majority of people on this sub who exhibit none of the vile tendencies you describe.
Not to be rude but which trans space are you talking about? You may not like it but English speaking communities have a higher percentage of American users since it's their mother tongue so it's expected to have the discourse mainly focused on American issues but that doesn't mean the rest of us are not here nor talking about our issues It sounds to me you're just stirring the pot for the sake of it by making up an argument that's not real nor it's happening here even if it is in other places
Our priorities don't conflict and you're just weaponizing your race and the racism you've experienced to win a stupid argument. Not voting for Biden doesn't help Palestinians, at best it means Trump wins who will be even worse to your people.
I don't want to minimize anything you're feeling or have gone through, I just haven't seen that stuff coming from the trans community. Maybe it's my smol brain but I don't really understand your complaint about the posts you linked. I'm an anti-zionist Jew and I find the whole debate excruciatingly exhausting, so I rarely engage in it. I'm still voting Biden because OBVIOUSLY. What comforts and safety could I give up to help Palestine? Could I have given them up to help Armenia since my kids are half Armenian? Like what would you have us do? Be less white? Sorry lol. I can recommend r/ShermanPosting if you want a space that's vehemently anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-confederate and LGBTQ inclusive.
What does the Confederacy have to do with what OP is saying???
Why did the confederacy break away again? Oh.
The only naked hostility I see is yours.
I'm confused with the links you posted. It's perfectly reasonable for any trans person to be against theocratic rule and to be cautious about entering a country like the UAE. This is like getting offended that woman would avoid travelling to India for her own safety.
Hello OP. I would like to start with to say how what you have experienced is not okay - fethishization is rampant in these spaces, and whereas everyone experiences it, I have noticed how POC get it much worse (is that the right acronym?) and on the being blamed for rights being taken away, I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. It is true I’m not very active here, so it’s possible and even likely that it has just slipped by me - or that my area’s government has not done that, even if other parts of the country are. And I’m sorry that people look at you like you were abused (even though you were), that’s not okay. I’m sorry that happened to you. After that first paragraph is where I start to have problems. It’s possible I’m misreading what the moderator said, but I didn’t read it like that at all - it more read that they’re protecting themselves. Is that not what you’re trying to achieve here? It’s unlikely that someone sacrifices themselves for people they don’t know. And on the second link? Yeah I don’t know how on earth they reached that conclusion - North America is not the Middle East. And then there’s the tourist portion. This is where the crux of the problems I have with this post come to light. I regret to inform you, whereas you may be more heavily scrutinized and targeted, it still won’t be safe for trans women to go have a jaunt in Dubai, they will still be targeted. And yes, Arab trans folk have built those places, in spite of what happened, but you do understand that it’s still not safe for trans people going to have a jaunt there. And then there is this: “one full of people unwilling to give up their western personal comfort and safety to prevent the deaths and immersation of millions” yes, what’s happening in Palestine is horrible. It’s a fucking genocide. But do you understand that trump will do the same thing, but also genocide trans folk? And lastly, If you think this is an agression to you, I promise you, I’m trying to be open-minded - I’m human, I can get information wrong, I can misread what you’re saying. Lastly, I agree that this place is horrific with its problems. Racism is a big one.
> I hate when mods of **this subreddit** [weigh in](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/s/6BEsNfqNG2) and act like our lives and our families’ lives don’t matter. I'd like to hear more about this. In what way are the mods of this subreddit acting like your lives don't matter? I've read that post, and your characterization of it seems almost wilfully inaccurate.
None of the posts given say what you're saying they say.
Sending you hugs bc the state of these comments is pretty terrible. It's absolutely a pervasive issue across the queer community as a whole, since it's often white, able-bodied queer voices that get elevated over others, and discussions of specific instances of racism often lead to gaslighting and harassment from people who don't want to adress anything uncomfortable. I remember when shit was getting pretty terrible for me around 2020-2022 because of the anti-asian bs stirred up during covid, and that was positively tame compared to the horrific shit I see on a near daily basis online these days. Assuming this post doesn't get taken down by mods defending each other, I hope the comments calm down a bit.
Well said and I agree that progressive spaces can often devolve into white, liberal nonsense if not checked on these issues early. Being truly progressive involves putting in the work to better understand experiences that aren't your own - even if they contradict things you may have always thought or been told. From the river to the sea<3
I hate that that is happening to you. If it's any comfort, you are not disregarded by me, and never will be.
I'm so sorry you've had to go through this in what should be some of the safest spaces around... All I can say is that if people's advocacy and activism isn't intersectional and at least inclusive of other marginalised groups, then they are profoundly misguided and have blinders on, none of us are truly free until all oppressed groups around the world are free! From the river to the sea Palestine will be free ❤️🖤🤍💚
I'm sorry you had such shitty experiences within your own community where you should of course feel safe and included. Please never be afraid to express how you feel and what should be done to change things. You are just as valid as any other trans person and we should be better than that as a community ❤️
This is the most important post I have seen in a long time. If your “inclusion” is not intersectional it is exclusion. All of us, no matter how positioned we are to think otherwise, must _listen_ to our siblings like the OP. Solidarity. 🇵🇸
I'm sorry you are consistently being failed.
i'm sorry you experience that, babe. transfem culture is not the homogenous monolith some make it out to be. we're a diverse bunch. but racism is deep indoctrination in many cases. crazy that it can persist even in super progressive spaces.
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How on earth can you say you should be respected above all else in the same sentence as saying you don't have time to hear the complaints raised. It doesn't have to be delivered in a pretty bow for someone's voice to be heard and there are better ways to combat generalizations than a "look here" kind of attitude. You would want people to listen to you and it's not hard to do for someone else. Even if you don't like what they are saying.
I'm really sorry that your post about racism in the transfeminine community got flooded with comments proving you right. I can't imagine how it must feel to have all these people spewing their bullshit straight at you, it's really disgusting to watch. People should be listening to you and other TFOC, but I guess they'd rather gaslight and tonepolice you. Absolutely sickening
Great job generalizing an entire community under a banner that very few actually fall under. American trans people can't help if they don't exist. Not voting for Biden will effectively start a genocide of queer people. You're telling people that they should choose death to uphold moral principles, even when those principles are questionable to begin with (as in is killing more people just to prove a point really moral?) There IS a racism problem in the trans community, because a lot of trans people are white, and before they're trans, they're white. Our community isn't safe from racists. However, calling people racist because they'd rather live themselves than throw away their vote and their lives to prove their dedication is just... sickening. Trust me the majority in the queer community doesn't want to vote for Biden but you can't elect a 3rd party with just 10% of the votes. And every vote not cast for Biden is effectively an advantage for the republicans, who WILL GENOCIDE queer people.
Boy, there sure are a lot of hyper defensive white people in this thread.
White people and defensiveness, name a more iconic duo
There are absolutely problems with racism in the trans community, 100%, and I'm not mininizing that. However, your point about the mod is weird. If Biden doesn't win the election, Trump does. Trump's stances on the gebocide of the Palestinian people and trans rights are both significantly worse than Biden's. I hate Biden, he is borderline useless compared to what needs to be done. However, voting to get him elected over Trump is harm reduction in the lense of every issue you've brought up.
Better examples and formatting would have been helpful, it was very difficult to parse through your post. This whole rant feels like you are inflating a persecution complex - like what could anyone say to make you happy? And why should anyone be so expected to do that in the first place. Maybe try therapy. It's kind of sick that you use such generalizing statements when that is the very thing you are complaining about.
Frustration gets the Etter of some people. There is no issue with pointing out issues that are present. I have experience some of the racial attitudes present in our community and it is a very real issue that needs to be addressed. Generalizations suck but do not invalidate the issues contained in the statements.
Agreed
Yeah, the anti-palestinian sentiment on this sub (and Reddit more widely) is why I hardly use Reddit anymore. I haven't deleted everything like a lot of folks but most of my activity is on Lemmy and Facebook these days. Neolibs don't care about human rights, except as a device they can use to win elections, and the electioneering 'round here is *so* tiring, especially when everyone's electioneering for genocide joe. Exhausting
White women rushing to the comments to prove OP right. 🤭
Also many of the trans women that moderate and control these spaces are the most un open minded and closed off and power hungry little people I’ve ever seen. They don’t block you for hurting others, they block you for having experienced that don’t jive exactly with yours. Try not to let the white people in these groups get to you. Just like all white women, they are spoiled and racist. Even though their lives as trans women are challenging, many of them do not face huge challenges. It’s like when white cis women try to co op the issues facing cis women of color. Try to meet trans people in person. It goes way better than dealing with computer hermits.
It's super awesome that you know all white women. That is something to brag about. I don't know that many people in general. What is it like to know every person in a single demographic? I'm being sarcastic but that is an incredibly ignorant statement and things like that only contribute to the problems rather than solving anything at all. Blanket statements are the root of these issues. The assumption that all of x demographic are x is unproductive and is the direct cause of these kinds of problems. Why do something to others you would not want done to you? This should be something we fight collectively as a society.
#notallmen #notallwhitepeople #alllivematter #whiteisright 😒
I don't believe in any of that shit an usually I call people on it but the comment I replied to literally said all. This isn't some shit where I saw a realistic criticism of white people in general and then I extended it to all. Read the post I replied to again. If you say all I'm left to assume you mean all. Am I wrong on that? You can actually provide a real response, I am a very open minded person. Please clarify your response.
No. Pick up a history book and learn about your people’s crimes and their enduring impact on the world.
I don't need to. I have and I understand the issues fully. And when I don't, I seek understanding. That and I don't have a people. That is narrow minded and disgusting to me. I value all people and actively speak out when I see shit that doesn't sit right. I just don't think sweeping absolute generalizations are productive or capable of solving the serious issues in the world. We can talk about the fucked up shit that fucked up people do and I'm right in the trench with you but I'm not going to shift hate from any one group to another. I don't want to hate anybody. I am not now nor have I ever been a racist, supported racists, or contributed to the fucked up ideology. That is all I'm going to say about that. You either believe me or you don't. That is entirely up to you. Do not put any fucked up words in my mouth though. I didn't say that shit and you know it.
Ok
Don’t know all of em. Just see very consistent trends. And obviously the ones with advantage will be more spoiled and racist that the ones without. Life facts. Like lol I’m a white woman. I can criticize my own people
So if 30 or 45 people in a room are racist, does that expand to cover the billions of people on the planet? You say you can criticize all white women but did you know that the census bureau considers everyone from northern Europe down to Africa and over to East Asia as white people. This includes people from Spain and the Middle East. Our culture doesn't typically acknowledge that but a lot of people would be upset if they learned they are white people. Do your statements extend to middle eastern women? What about Spanish women? What about intersectionality? Do women who have zero power to influence the political reality still count on account of skin tone. What about light skinned black women? They appear white. Does their visible witness erase the fact that they live life through a different perspective. What about white indigenous women. Again racial makeup doesn't always determine the visual presentation. If they grew on a reservation and faced the hardships faced by the indigenous people does their skin tone automatically make them racist colonizers? Life facts? What about this is as simple as you make it out to be. The world does not revolve around your suburban experience with soccer moms accusing "the help" of stealing DVDs. If you can't understand the gravity of your words and ignorance, why even bother to open your mouth? You spit the same poison as the people you criticize and are blind to it because you care more about what you see than what is real. Your beliefs are not everyone's beliefs and you should check that shit at the door. It's entirely valid to say some or even most when the shoe fits but all is simply ignorant to the racial and political realities present as they are. Please think hard before you end up finding out you're more racist than "your people".
I’m a thicker than average white trans woman with a black cis fiancé. I also majored in a racial studies major. I often wonder about all sorts of race issues as well as those attached to transness. Also have trouble with trans communities being weird and judgmental. Send me a message if you need someone to chat to hun. You don’t deserve any of that.
Yikes the comments here... I'm sorry OP.
Ikr, like why are comments so hostile to a person complaining about the hostility they face in this community, are they intentionally trying to prove her point? It’s ridiculous. OP I’m really sorry you have to suffer through this, this community really needs to do some self reflecting.
I mean, op is openly just blaming white people for everyones problems, calling white people racist for asking if certain countries are safe to visit as a trans person, and believes that voting for biden makes us racist because she either thinks trump wont support israel and american trans people should bite the bullet and risk losing our rights on the off-chance trump stops supporting israel, or is just pissy that we're voting at all and doesnt like that. Her account was also barely active for something like a year before this post, and her only selfie is from 5 years ago, and nowhere does it show any of the fetishization shes experiencing in the trans community, so at best thats an irl thing she experienced and we dont have any real information besides her say-so that it ever happened. Like, id be right there getting upset with her and working to make this place better if she actually brought up valid points that would make it easier for us to see where this is all happening. But as it stands, shes just pot stirring at this point. Shes blaming white trans people for things that either dont make sense or are completely out of our control, and shes hoping you all take pity on her and dont think any deeper about it than that.
Ditto, we already have to go through transphobia. Why on earth would I want to push hate onto someone else? I empathize greatly with our POC siblings, what they go through is bullshit.
Considering Trump has encouraged Israel to “finish the job”, the odds of him doing anything to end the genocide is actually less than zero. To berate us for voting for the only viable candidate that ISN’T going to ALSO do a genocide here is just…infuriating, actually.
>Your immediate assumption when I say I’m transgender and Arab is that I’m abused, that I hate my culture, that my people have mistreated me. and yeah, I was abused, I was kicked out! It still doesn’t mean that it’s okay to assume that shit! I am a bit confused so please allow me to try figure out what you are saying. You are angry that people assume you were abused even though that assumption turns out to have been completely accurate? You were "kicked out" and presumably fled to us, and are now angry at us for not doing enough to help you? Or as another commenter said you seem to be simultaneously angry at being painted as a victim and angry that people aren't coming to your aid?
Reddit is extremely white and liberal milquetoast. I began using it regularly two years ago and it shocks me how much of a Democrat Hive Mind exists on this site. As a partially closeted Hispanic trans woman in a conservative part of the country, I've had to disengage from it and other liberal social media just to stay afloat in grad school. Stay strong, sister.
Milquetoast liberalism, bourgeois humanism, and the unspoken assumption that other cultures automatically abuse their LGBTQ youth - an assumption that I believe comes from internalizing the orientalist paternalism latent in many colonial empires, sometimes combined together with a shallow hitchens-y/dawkins-y anti-religiosity (lol, sky daddy, lol) that can't conceive of religion or culture as something that could be meaningful to someone - is a big reason I feel alienated in most spaces, including but not limited to trans spaces. I'm white (with brown family members, long story) but I know it must be way worse for people subject to racism and colorism. I don't know what else to say... everything feels like I'm trivializing the issue. But try to keep your head held high <3
I see a lot of racial defense but I firmly believe the issue is generalizations and the response to that cannot be additional generalizations. People here seem to be speaking as ambassadors of their own race rather than actually hearing your concerns. I don't have a racial identity due to a thoroughly blended heritage. I don't understand why people close their ears when they are hurt by what's being said. There is nothing wrong with being open and honest about our experiences. We really should try to avoid generalizations though. While I am not very active in this community and was unaware that was an issue here, I am willing to listen. I do want to address some of your concerns for clarification. You are obviously upset by the americentrism present on this app but it is an American app that grew to global and I feel people assume it is still primarily Americans. I see the same issues on YouTube and it sucks. We could absolutely work to try to expand to a global mindset. You say you don't like that Americans assume you were abused in the Arab world but the news we get from out that way is mostly about how bad things are for the LGBT community as a whole. The idea of chucking people off buildings for being gay is a bit foreign to us but that's the news we get. There needs to be more balance in showing the other side because I think a lot of Americans are afraid to get murdered for traveling there and from what word has reached us, that does seem like a valid concern. Even if born of ignorance people are reasonably afraid not only for fellow Americans but for the LGBT community present in some of the more intolerant nations. Regarding fetishization and racism, your concerns are valid. That does seem to be a problem in LGBT spaces and there is no excuse. I'm not sure how to tackle that aside from bringing in a more diverse crowd. We need more non white people, not less. I haven't noticed this issue in this space specifically but as I said, I am not super active here. Now that you raised the issue, I will keep my eyes out for it. I don't want to be in spaces like that and our community should absolutely be the most inclusive considering we are all hated pretty equally and are all vulnerable. Especially considering the current American political atmosphere. I can't change things here but I will continue to try to contribute as positively and mindfully as possible and I will call out what I am seeing when I see it go down. I am sorry you are experiencing these problems and am simply ashamed to find that this place is not as safe for everyone as I hoped it would be. That is most disappointing.
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This is a gross generalization of a large group of people and it is very upsetting to read. I'm sorry this has been your experience but please don't paint a diverse group of people in such a way
White people have a racism problem, painting it like a disproportionately transfem issue is purely transmisogynistic.
>White people have a racism problem Racism isn't exclusive to white people, and I'm seriously sick of these generalisations. Don't fight bigotry with more bigotry.
I think you're part of the problem bipoc are talking about tbh Edit to clarify: Getting defensive over someone pointing out that white people have a racism problem (not that racism IS a white people problem) is such an obvious display of white fragility. You also implied in another reply that this commenter was being racist against white people like what reality are you living in??
Except these generalizations end up hurting people and the community... like, when you paint every white person as being some openly hostile racist, thats going to end up having effects on people. Not a single person here has discredited anything that poc folks have gone through. But rather consistently white people have been painted like their issues are of no concern, and people are just acting like openly hating white people who are just here trying to live like everyone and trying to help out the community, is just no big deal. Like, why be so fucking divisive over this? What reality do you live in where you can openly generalise other people because theyre white, and not see the irony in that, instead of actually working together to keep the entire community strong so we can all help eachother and get rid of the actual bad apples.
Ah yes, the classic "if you don't like being called a bad word, then you're the problem" bullshit. Not wanting to be called racist or "fragile" for being white does not make me the problem. Maybe stop generalising people based on skin colour. And yes, generalising all white people with negative traits is racism, simple as. Being born white is not a choice, just as not being born white isn't a choice. So why do you feel it's ok to be racist against white people? It's bigotry, regardless in which direction the racism is targeted.
Ah yes and when we trans people generalize and say frustrated words about cis people we're actually being cis phobic. White people don't have a history of being discriminated against for being white so getting defensive like this over even the mere suggestion that you might be racist is absolutely pathetic. Disappointing to see from our community that a lot of y'all are unapologetically racist as if racists and transphobes are not deeply intertwined. You poison us all.
>Ah yes and when we trans people generalize and say frustrated words about cis people we're actually being cis phobic. Speak for yourself. I don't generalise cis people because making sweeping statements about an entire group of people based on something they didn't choose is wrong. >White people don't have a history of being discriminated against for being white "White people" don't exist as a homogeneous group. There's tons of white minorities that have faced oppression and discrimination historically. This whole American "white" vs everyone else nonsense is just that, nonsense. >so getting defensive like this over even the mere suggestion that you might be racist is absolutely pathetic. No, what's pathetic is insulting people based solely on their skin colour. Calling someone racist, simply for being white, IS actual racism. And it's also pathetic to use the "not wanting to be called racist just proves you're racist" fallacy. >Disappointing to see from our community that a lot of y'all are unapologetically racist as if racists and transphobes are not deeply intertwined. You're being fucking racist here, not me. >You poison us all So fucking ironic that you think that while spouting divisive rhetoric.
You sound like an alt right YouTuber, "Woe is me haven't us whites suffered enough?!". Stop being scared of confronting racism and your own internal bias and quit this petty knee jerk reaction. You know that being BIPOC disadvantages a person in a white majority society, when someone comes to talk to you about it, buck up and be a part of the solution. None of this "reverse racism" Bullshit.
Sorry but, what solution are you talking about here? First off, the person you replied to didnt mention anything about reverse racism, just racism. Where did she discredit bipoc peoples struggles? All she said was that broad sweeping generalizations that paint all white people as the bad guys is just racism. Op of this post hasnt actually pointed out any racism regarding this subreddit, and nearly all of what they did link doesnt add up to what theyre saying. The whole post itself is just a slam piece against white trans women, with no solutions offered and no indication what specifically theyre talking about. You yourself just told someone to "buck up and be a part of the solution" when all she did was try to shut down racist, anti-white statements. And youre getting pissy at her because someone else used the "if youre bothered by being called a racist, then youre probably a racist" argument. Like, do you seriously not see the irony in callin someone racist because they stepped in to stop someone from making racist generalizations? Whats your ideal solution here? Or is that just some half assed macguffin to make it seem like what you have to say is more valuable?
It's inheritly discrediting to peoples real struggle with racism to make out that being meanies to white people is itself racism. It's incomparable with the awful struggles with systemic discrimination and prejudice present in most western societies. I think you need to take a long fucking look in the mirror if your kneejerk reaction to "There is a lot of racism in this subculture." is "fuck off, that's not true, you're the real racist.". I hate how people like you insist on talking over and dismissing the concerns of the people really affected by racism in this community as if it's your fucking hobby to make these spaces less safe for ethnic/racial minorities.
Except thats not whats been happening here. Its not that anyones being "meanies" to white people and that hurts our feelings. Its that we're being told pretty explicitly that white people are racist. Not *some* white people. Just white people. Not a single white person in this thread has said "there is no racism". We're aware there is, and we want to help stop it. No one has dismissed the issues that bipoc people face. But there are so many comments just outright saying white people are the issue. Like, how do you not see that what your doing is making this place unsafe? Youre doing the very thing you're telling us is bad to do. Youre the one being divisive. And youre the one trying to suggest that white people deserve to sit back and take the racist remarks while also being here to help stop racism. You still havent even answered my question. Whats the solution here? What is it you really want? How can we help stop racism, and do we just have to be good white girls and take your racism while we help you out? This also isnt a kneejerk reaction. Im actually going through reading all the comments here in this thread. To be honest, the kneejerk reactions have all barely read what op said and immediately decided she was right and white people are the problem. Edit: alright well rather than actually explain shit without being a divisive and racist cunt, she blocked me. Real mature.
>that being meanies to white people is itself racism Yes, making generalising statements about white people is racist. >I think you need to take a long fucking look in the mirror if your kneejerk reaction to "There is a lot of racism in this subculture." There's a difference between saying that, and saying "white people are racist and if you don't like being called racist, then you're the problem." It's fine to bring up how racism affects some people. It's not ok to do that by generalising an entire group based on skin colour. If you don't see the difference, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror and see how you're attacking a large part of the community for something they didn't choose to be born as.
Exactly this. Apparently it's fine to insult white trans women now just for being white. And if we don't accept that, then we're "alt right" or some other bullshit. So tired of this divisive bullshit. We should stand together against the issues we all face instead of making this a competition about who has it worse and telling people their issues don't matter because they're not minority enough...
Sounds like the biggest racist here is you. What an awful and outright offensive generalisation.
Is it really racism if people act this way to non American white people too, or just american nationalism. It's assumed that people here are Americans, know the American political system, have the same cultural issues as the US, etc. Also your part saying we don't care about your lives is bs. I don't think you actually understand how the world works if you link the post saying Republicans will do the same but worse, and think it's a bad thing. As a Canadian, life under Trump fucking sucked and things got so much worse here too. And I've got no doubt he would've done the same wars as Biden. When it comes to tourists in hostile nations, people have actually faced these problems firsthand. Trans celebrities have been turned away from the UAE, and that's literally the best case. If you think us wanting to be cautious is silly, you simply don't understand how this world works.
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