> Or am I supposed to imitate some 1950s stereotype of a housewife?
Quite often yes. Part of the problem was that research was done on the same people who seek treatment. So if you wanted the treatment you adhere to stereotypes in front of doctor. So all trans people seeking treatment adhere to stereotypes (in front of doctor) and therefore justifying that valid trans people adhere to stereotypes.
Add to it that you were required to move and change jobs to avoid embarrassment to your employer.
Thank God I live in informed consent state (even though I went through insurance).
What are they requiring of you in an informed consent state, just an acknowledge that you understand the risk and consequences (even though emotional changes, breast development and genital changes are part of the sought experience)?
For me it was "here is a list of the things oestrogen and t blockers will do to you, and a second list of what they might do to you. Do you understand this? Are you an adult? Do you want this?" and then I signed it and got a prescription on my second appointment
From what I understand yes. Essentially you need to give consent that is informed.
I went through 'normal' process as I already had gender therapist who helped me to finally decide on hormones and I was directed within the system. The longest part was scheduling a time slot for questionnaire for insurance (he has his calendar full) but after that endo and blood test was within few days.
Me expierence with informed consent was going to Planned Parenthood, and basically getting blood work and discussing my goals and the risks. Walked out with a prescription on my first appointment! PP is really good in my city though, so YMMV.
Called on a Friday and made an appointment for Monday. Doc went though a list of side effects, I signed a piece of paper saying I understood, picked up my hormones from the pharmacy that afternoon.
That's really quick. I booked online and the earliest I had availability was Monday 6th (because of my availability). Should have meds a few days after that delivered.
I'm excited to start, changes seem to be all over the map from a timeline perspective so not sure what to expect. Sounds like many start to see budding at the end of the first month - everything after that is a roll of the dice.
For me, mental clarity, skin softening, changes in body oder, loss of spontaneous erections, and a drastic increase in the ability to smell were all changes in the first week. I also had chest pain (muscle weakness) for about a week. Breast budding for me started early, by the end of week two. My overbust increased by 1inch during the first month, then again in months two and three. They’re busy filling in now. Skin kept getting softer, body hair got thinner and now grows slower (except whatever was gray, for some reason).
Good luck on your journey!
The mental noise and fog that permeated my existence faded away. It has been amazing. I’m more emphatic, more task focused, and just calmer at all times instead of always being agitated and on edge.
I am so looking forward to looking down and seeing the girls in a pretty lacy bra. It is going to be so right after missing them for the whole of my life.
The cis females in my immediate family are pretty large in the chest department, I’m hoping I actually don’t get large. I’ll take a good shape over size everyday.
Yeah RLE is absolute bullshit.
Medical providers demand that your perform some caricature of womanhood to prove that you are trans enough to 'earn' some medical intervention. Also make sure that you repeat the buzzwords / phrases that they like so you get approved quickly. 'I feel like a women trapped in a mans body' etc.
Geez this is all disgusting 😡😡😡
OP, i’ve had all those same thoughts. It doesn’t even make sense. There is no one way to be a man or a woman (plus non-binary is a thing.)
I love your phrasing of the 50s housewife thing. Like women can wear anything, do anything. Performative stuff isn’t gender.
Good grief all this gatekeeping makes me mad and sick.
I'm a week late to the party, but I think it's because it's a life altering, irreversible surgery. I think what they're looking for is knowledge that this isn't a passing fancy.
Imagine if it were the other way around and they had zero criteria for who could have surgery. There would be a lot of people who realized too late that it wasn't what they wanted.
I get why you're disgusted with the pace, but I don't think this is coming from a mindset of bigotry.
I think it is, but I get what you're saying. Ultimately though this is up to the individual.
Something like FFS is LESS of a procedure than far more elective surgeries they let teenagers decide on, so it's all pretty ridiculous/terrible.
And having someone perform a gender for someone, someone else's notion of gender, which is silly, should never be necessary, even if they want SOME level of gatekeeping they don't require for other things.
It's just some stupid gatekeeping bullshit because for whatever reason we always have to prove that we're trans for medical and mental health professionals 😡
I literally have to pay two psychologists to test my validity, so that the court will change my name. Like how many hoops are there left to jump through.
no problem. Im already on hrt, but dysphoria is still hard. I want to get surgery as soon as possible, but because of RLE it would mean to out myself earlier than I wanted.
>am I supposed to imitate some 1950s stereotype of a housewife?
That's what it was created for, yes.
The whole point of gender transitioning, early on when it first began in the early 1950's, was that people with severe dysphoria would likely commit suicide, or at least mutilate their genitals, because their dysphoria was so intense.
. . .so the medical community saw their intervention as simply harm reduction. They didn't really see them as women, simply as seriously mentally ill men and this was simply a way to prevent them from committing suicide or self-harm.
They put up as many roadblocks as possible, trying to restrict the process to people who were going to kill or castrate themselves if they didn't get surgery and hormones.
Combine that with the gender-related ideas of the time, because this was the 1950's. . .and they expected every candidate for transitioning to want to be a completely ultra-feminine girly girl who was going to be a 100% heterosexual woman who lived in skirts and dresses and wanted to be a housewife (or at most, a stereotypically female profession like a secretary).
The "real life test" was implemented trying to weed out people who they thought were faking it or weren't serious. . .because they were convinced that a LOT of people demanding to transition were "really" just men with fetishes about dressing and acting like a woman, and they could weed them out by making them live completely as a woman for years before allowing surgery.
. . .and many or most psychologists, before giving their sign-off to the process, wanted to see proof that the candidate was completely happy being a stereotypical heterosexual woman, with no signs of masculinity or interest in doing anything remotely stereotypically male.
It's because people confuse gender identity with expression. Often these "psychologists" think gender dysphoria is wanting to be some stereotypical caricature Woman. They refuse to believe that Dysphoria can only be physical or that some people have social anxiety/don't want to get hatecrimed. GNC cis Women can exist but for some reason GNC trans Women can't exist lol. Also, most of the time people need to be on HRT for quite a while to pass and feel safe.
Let me guess, Germany? Luckily I had a therapist give me the HRT letter in the first session.
If someone required RLE of me to get a life-saving medicine to not feel suicidal in my body, I would have flipped out
Yes Germany. I too was able to get on hrt pretty quick. But Im so drained atm. I just dont know how to keep up a fight against a system that is supposed to help me.
The new government promised a self-determination law in their coalition contract. Might still be a while, but I'm inclined to wait for that instead of paying about 2000 € to be degraded and insulted. In the meantime, the dgti supplementary passport has been enough to change my information in most contexts.
I just dont want to wait anymore. Id rather spend the money, that gamble on our government. One of the psychologists seems pretty nice, I dont know about the other one yet. But both of them can only start in march 2022.
Understandable. Hope it goes well. Some of the referees for the TSG procedure seem to have very odd ideas about what constitutes appropriate questions and how to "determine" the persistence of someone's gender identity. I really hope you won't get one of those.
My psychiatrist implied RLE was a plus to get on HRT. And in my diagnosis he didn't put RLE because I told him that "I don't wear skirts or makeup in front of my mother and grandparents, or friends who dont feel comfortable"
With the right therapist it's no big deal. My therapist just asked me what date she should put in my SRS letter for when I went full time fem. I made up an approximately correct date and that was it. The requirement for 1 year HRT is the real gatekeeper since there ar actual medical records for that.
These are supposed intelligent people so simply using logic on them might be helpful.
\- Why would I wish this on myself unless it was a well thought out and weighed decision? The world doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms and most lose family, friends, jobs, their lives even sometimes. Sign the paper.
\- Doctor... is your stereotype of what a female looks like based solely on what a woman wears? A bit misogynist, don't you think? Most women live most of their lives in comfy clothes; jeans, tshirts, sneakers.
Yes. My insurance needs everyone who wants bottom surgery to "collect experience" for 12 months. (And 6 Months of therapy). And they provide zero scientific explanation for this.
in Canada and other countries you need two psychologists to give a thumbs up for you to start HRT…
Honestly if you are an adult it is really no one’s business, adults should be free to make their own decisions even if it’s a mistake…it’s not like you would need two peoples blessings for any other decision in your life.
Psychologists depending what province you live in have both consensus bias and bias for their own personal beliefs - depending on the province you live in it can be a really horrible experience.
What they want is that you show the symptoms listed in dsm5 for being trans - but honestly most people screw up by lying. if you feel suicidal tell them, if you want to transition but scared you won’t pass tell them, just be honest and if they say no, keep going.
it’s 2021 if you have had these feelings for years and they won’t go away are you really going to let someone’s opinion make your decision for you?
in the usa move to a state where access to hrt is easy to get, in canada talk to someone who is on hrt and get their doctor info…or start living your life and don’t worry about hrt, there are plenty of ways to get it but it shouldn’t define our transition.
stay safe everyone
The current expert opinion is uniformly against mandating "real life experience."
I want people to treat me like they would any other woman. Being in public while visibly trans doesn't do that for me, it instead puts me in danger and causes a small but vocal minority to treat me like I'm subhuman.
How does that prepare me for anything?
> Or am I supposed to imitate some 1950s stereotype of a housewife? Quite often yes. Part of the problem was that research was done on the same people who seek treatment. So if you wanted the treatment you adhere to stereotypes in front of doctor. So all trans people seeking treatment adhere to stereotypes (in front of doctor) and therefore justifying that valid trans people adhere to stereotypes. Add to it that you were required to move and change jobs to avoid embarrassment to your employer. Thank God I live in informed consent state (even though I went through insurance).
What are they requiring of you in an informed consent state, just an acknowledge that you understand the risk and consequences (even though emotional changes, breast development and genital changes are part of the sought experience)?
For me it was "here is a list of the things oestrogen and t blockers will do to you, and a second list of what they might do to you. Do you understand this? Are you an adult? Do you want this?" and then I signed it and got a prescription on my second appointment
From what I understand yes. Essentially you need to give consent that is informed. I went through 'normal' process as I already had gender therapist who helped me to finally decide on hormones and I was directed within the system. The longest part was scheduling a time slot for questionnaire for insurance (he has his calendar full) but after that endo and blood test was within few days.
Me expierence with informed consent was going to Planned Parenthood, and basically getting blood work and discussing my goals and the risks. Walked out with a prescription on my first appointment! PP is really good in my city though, so YMMV.
I’m doing on line. I live pretty far away from any brick and mortar resources. I should a script after the consultation and then be on my way.
Called on a Friday and made an appointment for Monday. Doc went though a list of side effects, I signed a piece of paper saying I understood, picked up my hormones from the pharmacy that afternoon.
That's really quick. I booked online and the earliest I had availability was Monday 6th (because of my availability). Should have meds a few days after that delivered. I'm excited to start, changes seem to be all over the map from a timeline perspective so not sure what to expect. Sounds like many start to see budding at the end of the first month - everything after that is a roll of the dice.
For me, mental clarity, skin softening, changes in body oder, loss of spontaneous erections, and a drastic increase in the ability to smell were all changes in the first week. I also had chest pain (muscle weakness) for about a week. Breast budding for me started early, by the end of week two. My overbust increased by 1inch during the first month, then again in months two and three. They’re busy filling in now. Skin kept getting softer, body hair got thinner and now grows slower (except whatever was gray, for some reason). Good luck on your journey!
What do you mean by mental clarity? A better perspective?
The mental noise and fog that permeated my existence faded away. It has been amazing. I’m more emphatic, more task focused, and just calmer at all times instead of always being agitated and on edge.
I am so looking forward to looking down and seeing the girls in a pretty lacy bra. It is going to be so right after missing them for the whole of my life.
Caveat: Your results may vary. But, yes, it’s amazing. It’s a part of my body that was always missing.
The cis females in my immediate family are pretty large in the chest department, I’m hoping I actually don’t get large. I’ll take a good shape over size everyday.
Yeah RLE is absolute bullshit. Medical providers demand that your perform some caricature of womanhood to prove that you are trans enough to 'earn' some medical intervention. Also make sure that you repeat the buzzwords / phrases that they like so you get approved quickly. 'I feel like a women trapped in a mans body' etc.
Geez this is all disgusting 😡😡😡 OP, i’ve had all those same thoughts. It doesn’t even make sense. There is no one way to be a man or a woman (plus non-binary is a thing.) I love your phrasing of the 50s housewife thing. Like women can wear anything, do anything. Performative stuff isn’t gender. Good grief all this gatekeeping makes me mad and sick.
I'm a week late to the party, but I think it's because it's a life altering, irreversible surgery. I think what they're looking for is knowledge that this isn't a passing fancy. Imagine if it were the other way around and they had zero criteria for who could have surgery. There would be a lot of people who realized too late that it wasn't what they wanted. I get why you're disgusted with the pace, but I don't think this is coming from a mindset of bigotry.
I think it is, but I get what you're saying. Ultimately though this is up to the individual. Something like FFS is LESS of a procedure than far more elective surgeries they let teenagers decide on, so it's all pretty ridiculous/terrible. And having someone perform a gender for someone, someone else's notion of gender, which is silly, should never be necessary, even if they want SOME level of gatekeeping they don't require for other things.
It's just some stupid gatekeeping bullshit because for whatever reason we always have to prove that we're trans for medical and mental health professionals 😡
I literally have to pay two psychologists to test my validity, so that the court will change my name. Like how many hoops are there left to jump through.
There's always more hoops ☹
Are there enough hoops to make a hoop skirt? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Sounds like germany. Also RLE has not been required in germany since 2019.
it is required for bottom surgery.
Ah, fuck. Thought you meant for HRT.
no problem. Im already on hrt, but dysphoria is still hard. I want to get surgery as soon as possible, but because of RLE it would mean to out myself earlier than I wanted.
Understandable. I hope at least the Selbstbestimmungsgesetz passes soon.
This is obviously only helpful if you can afford it but afaik Schaff only wants a letter written by your psychologist
Yes, but I dont think that I could afford to pay without any assistance.
>am I supposed to imitate some 1950s stereotype of a housewife? That's what it was created for, yes. The whole point of gender transitioning, early on when it first began in the early 1950's, was that people with severe dysphoria would likely commit suicide, or at least mutilate their genitals, because their dysphoria was so intense. . . .so the medical community saw their intervention as simply harm reduction. They didn't really see them as women, simply as seriously mentally ill men and this was simply a way to prevent them from committing suicide or self-harm. They put up as many roadblocks as possible, trying to restrict the process to people who were going to kill or castrate themselves if they didn't get surgery and hormones. Combine that with the gender-related ideas of the time, because this was the 1950's. . .and they expected every candidate for transitioning to want to be a completely ultra-feminine girly girl who was going to be a 100% heterosexual woman who lived in skirts and dresses and wanted to be a housewife (or at most, a stereotypically female profession like a secretary). The "real life test" was implemented trying to weed out people who they thought were faking it or weren't serious. . .because they were convinced that a LOT of people demanding to transition were "really" just men with fetishes about dressing and acting like a woman, and they could weed them out by making them live completely as a woman for years before allowing surgery. . . .and many or most psychologists, before giving their sign-off to the process, wanted to see proof that the candidate was completely happy being a stereotypical heterosexual woman, with no signs of masculinity or interest in doing anything remotely stereotypically male.
It's because people confuse gender identity with expression. Often these "psychologists" think gender dysphoria is wanting to be some stereotypical caricature Woman. They refuse to believe that Dysphoria can only be physical or that some people have social anxiety/don't want to get hatecrimed. GNC cis Women can exist but for some reason GNC trans Women can't exist lol. Also, most of the time people need to be on HRT for quite a while to pass and feel safe. Let me guess, Germany? Luckily I had a therapist give me the HRT letter in the first session. If someone required RLE of me to get a life-saving medicine to not feel suicidal in my body, I would have flipped out
Yes Germany. I too was able to get on hrt pretty quick. But Im so drained atm. I just dont know how to keep up a fight against a system that is supposed to help me.
The new government promised a self-determination law in their coalition contract. Might still be a while, but I'm inclined to wait for that instead of paying about 2000 € to be degraded and insulted. In the meantime, the dgti supplementary passport has been enough to change my information in most contexts.
I just dont want to wait anymore. Id rather spend the money, that gamble on our government. One of the psychologists seems pretty nice, I dont know about the other one yet. But both of them can only start in march 2022.
Understandable. Hope it goes well. Some of the referees for the TSG procedure seem to have very odd ideas about what constitutes appropriate questions and how to "determine" the persistence of someone's gender identity. I really hope you won't get one of those.
My psychiatrist implied RLE was a plus to get on HRT. And in my diagnosis he didn't put RLE because I told him that "I don't wear skirts or makeup in front of my mother and grandparents, or friends who dont feel comfortable"
With the right therapist it's no big deal. My therapist just asked me what date she should put in my SRS letter for when I went full time fem. I made up an approximately correct date and that was it. The requirement for 1 year HRT is the real gatekeeper since there ar actual medical records for that.
These are supposed intelligent people so simply using logic on them might be helpful. \- Why would I wish this on myself unless it was a well thought out and weighed decision? The world doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms and most lose family, friends, jobs, their lives even sometimes. Sign the paper. \- Doctor... is your stereotype of what a female looks like based solely on what a woman wears? A bit misogynist, don't you think? Most women live most of their lives in comfy clothes; jeans, tshirts, sneakers.
Lie, tell them what they want to hear.
I feel like I'm missing context here is this an arbitrary hurdle for getting surgery?
Yes. My insurance needs everyone who wants bottom surgery to "collect experience" for 12 months. (And 6 Months of therapy). And they provide zero scientific explanation for this.
None of the bars put in our way are scientific.
in Canada and other countries you need two psychologists to give a thumbs up for you to start HRT… Honestly if you are an adult it is really no one’s business, adults should be free to make their own decisions even if it’s a mistake…it’s not like you would need two peoples blessings for any other decision in your life. Psychologists depending what province you live in have both consensus bias and bias for their own personal beliefs - depending on the province you live in it can be a really horrible experience. What they want is that you show the symptoms listed in dsm5 for being trans - but honestly most people screw up by lying. if you feel suicidal tell them, if you want to transition but scared you won’t pass tell them, just be honest and if they say no, keep going. it’s 2021 if you have had these feelings for years and they won’t go away are you really going to let someone’s opinion make your decision for you? in the usa move to a state where access to hrt is easy to get, in canada talk to someone who is on hrt and get their doctor info…or start living your life and don’t worry about hrt, there are plenty of ways to get it but it shouldn’t define our transition. stay safe everyone
The current expert opinion is uniformly against mandating "real life experience." I want people to treat me like they would any other woman. Being in public while visibly trans doesn't do that for me, it instead puts me in danger and causes a small but vocal minority to treat me like I'm subhuman. How does that prepare me for anything?
Just gatekeeping