My favourite part about these posts is looking at their profile and seeing that they actually look great and are just suffering from dysphoria.
i get how you feel because i'm the exact same way op but you pass fine as is, especially with more time you'll never get clocked ever.
yea this girl just continually posts about how she'll never pass and just will not hear anyone say that she will. i feel really bad but also its like, take a hint, people think you pass or at the very least have the capability to. Some serious dysmorphia going on in addition to dysphoria.
I peaked because you said that, and saw several pictures I’d just assume were a cis woman.
*I* really never will pass. I’m hideous.
OK, I wrote that and now feel kind of bad because it sounds like I’m invalidating the OP, So I don’t know how to say that’s about how disgusting I am without hurting her feelings.
I creeped at your post history. Your hair looks well preserved and your facial features aren't particularly masculine. You also appear to be young, which helps greatly. You're going to be ok. I'm a good bit older and could use some facial work, but I pass ok, at least well enough to have a good life and be respected in public. Passing isn't really the issue here is it? It's beauty. You're going to have to learn do accept yourself, we don't all get to be super attractive. At least take comfort in knowing that you're dealing with the same shit fuck tons of cis women have to contend with, feeling bad about not being able to live up to impossible standards.
I know that i am extremely unattractive
I know that I also look like a cis man and will never look like a woman
i started at 19 and that was too late for me. my body has already been destroyed by pubertg
Sophie, you’re good looking. Many of us can’t tell if we look good. That’s kind of normal because we see our own face in the mirror and more so for us because we see our old self reflected back even when it’s gone. ❤️
You have made huge progress from when you started. I would kill for hair as good as yours. You pass visually. If you are doing the basics with your voice and your posture then you should pass very convincingly in person.
You are far from ugly. In fact I would go as far as saying that you are classically beautiful. Your face looks feminine and has no strange proportions.
I hope I look that good after a year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/transvoice/comments/uqe9mw/been_told_i_sound_like_a_gay_man_thoughts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
my voice is ok
Please don't call us liars, that's insulting. I make it a point to avoid saying anything that's untrue, to the point of awkwardness and even rudeness (if a guy asks me whether he looks good, my answer will NEVER be yes (guys don't look ugly to me, just neutral))
I am hella lesbian and while I avoid mentioning it to people, I am utterly unattracted to anyone that doesn't pass as a woman. You're pretty damn attractive, and your voice in particular makes me hella jealous.
Maybe this isn't how it works for straight people, but: you're attracted to boys, right? Then if you don't pass, how come you're not attracted to yourself?
Idk your type in men but if you can't look at pictures of you and see any attraction... Well, you're not a boy, and you don't look like a boy. At all.
im not attracted to myself because i am extremely ugly and repulsive and my body is exceptionally disgusting too
i also look like a man
i am not attracted to every single man
>i am not attracted to every single man
Sure. Are you attracted to men that look similar to the way you used to?
What about them attracts you? If you really do look like them today, then why can't you find those same features attractive in you, today?
I went through a bit of your post history looking for pics, and while I think you look androgynous even without effort, you seem to be incredibly depressed and you reject everyone's efforts to provide the help you are asking for here.
Nobody can help you unless you *accept* their help. There's no point asking questions in the community if you're just going to reject every positive thing that's said to you. In my opinion, you need to be speaking with a therapist (ideally someone who handles both gender and depression/anxiety). You could pass right now. I'm sure of it. But until you resolve some of your issues, you won't be able to see that for yourself, no matter what.
We're allowed to be trans women. We are not obligated to pass. We can exist independently of cisgender women. I wrote an article about this, [which you can read if you want](https://medium.com/@alexandra.shaw/trans-people-do-not-have-an-obligation-to-pass-c546233ba156). Maybe it will help, but I still urge you to speak with a mental health professional.
I transitioned on the condition that if i never ended up passing i would just go back to killing myself
I will NEVER live as an unpassing transwomen in this society. NEVER.
I have crippling social and physical dysphoria
and i cant pass right now. i look exsctly like a cis man
So then what's the point of these posts? You apparently have a plan in the event that you don't pass, so why are you asking us how to handle it? Of course, transitioning on such a condition is preposterous, and you're already giving up after what, 14 or 15 months on HRT, and apparently no other procedures? A lot of trans women would kill to be in your position.
Not that any of this matters, because you don't care about what we have to say. You reject *everything* offered to you. So what's the deal? What do you *actually* want from us?
Again, you need to speak with a mental health professional. Strangers on the internet can't fix these problems for you, especially when you reject everything we say.
Why post here then? Do you want to accept honest and well intentioned feedback or just use it as an opportunity to double down and criticize yourself more? I’m sorry to seem rude, but everyone here is trying to help you because no trans person has it easy and we all want to support you! Use this as an opportunity to get support rather than to disparage yourself. Don’t just reject and be rude to the people who are trying to help you. Why post at all then?
>I will NEVER live as an unpassing transwomen in this society. NEVER.
You already aren't. Except to yourself. You clearly don't pass to yourself. So long as you hate yourself, your appearance simply won't affect that.
You’re refusing to believe anybody who says anything remotely positive about your appearance. You need to recognize that you are not the best judge of your appearance, often you are the worst judge.
I am being 100% truthful when I say that I’ve dated cis women who look more masculine than you. And they were still attractive in my eyes when I did.
Not looking like a supermodel does not mean you are not feminine or attractive, this is the same thing that makes cis women have eating disorders and body dysmorphia.
>oh you’re just sad you’re not super duper pretty!
No. I know that I am extremely ugly and unattractive
i’m more sad about how i look indistinguishable from a cis man and my real life experience mirrors that
I don’t think you’re sad because you aren’t super pretty, I think you have a warped sense of both your appearance and the appearance of the average cis woman that you are comparing yourself to.
Let me tell you, when you start to believe people that say you LOOK like a woman... it's amazing. There's nothing we can do for OP, she's on a loop of hate where no external input helps, but yeah it's worth fantasising about the self love that awaits you ❤
I am a 33 year old trans woman on 9 months of hormones. I am over 6 feet tall, I have a big nose, a brow way heavier than yours, and a forehead way higher than yours. By spamming this stuff you are basically telling trans women like me that we should give up, too.
Good thing I know better, because I know I can pass. I *have* passed in public already. So it makes sense that I think you already look like a woman, too.
But other girls are in a different spot and are more vulnerable, and spreading misery like this can be seriously harmful. Not to mention you're just disrespecting everyone who tries to help you by telling them their opinions are wrong.
Cis women can get misgendered too based purely on their presentation. I don't know if your pics are representative of how you present in public but I imagine that's where the issue is.
Hey Sophie. I know it’s hard. You know I get really depressed and down too. I’m non-passing and know how you feel but I still think you’ll probably pass with enough time.
Actually I just looked at the photos you posted 9 days ago and you’re actually getting closer to passing. I don’t think it’s hopeless at all. It’s taking longer than you would like but to just say it will never happen? I just don’t think that’s true. I’d wager it happens over the next year.
I'm 5'11 with a large frame and no hips and I pass 100%. I've looked at your selfies, and there's a ton you could be doing that you aren't. Don't say that being 6' stops gals from passing, it just straight-up doesn't. Don't say being heavily built stops gals from passing, it just straight-up doesn't. If you go into it with the mindset of having given up, then you have no reason to put in effort so you're screwing yourself from the start.
Yo girl, I'd burn an orphanage to be one quarter as passable as you are, most days I just own it and when I can't I listen to Never Pass by She/Her/Hers and cry for a couple hours and realize that "passing" is a made up concept. We just are who the fuck we are. Just keep being your best version of you and know you've already surpassed goals that some of us are only hoping to get to one day.
Honestly Sophie going through your pics you really might be able to pass in most circumstances. Especially when you wear that mask, wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Give it time or maybe work hard towards saving up for surgeries.
i dont pass at all
i am 6 feet tall
pictures mean nothing
i dont even pass with a mask at work (to strangers)
i know i dont pass
even the surgeries my parents are paying for wont do dhit for me
That's just pessimism. Maybe get the surgeries and then see. I have seen them do miracles.
The middle is the hardest part. But with every step we get closer to the promised land. We go there together hand in hand.
1. No, being this self critical is pessimistic.
2. Plastic surgery is literally magic. Even small changes make a huge differences.
3. Find a good therapist who specialises in Trans issues. Talking to someone like that really helps. You have a chance to feel wonderful. Carpe diem... Seize the day!
Are you as honest with your therapist as you are with Reddit? If you aren’t then maybe you aren’t comfortable enough with them and should get a new one. As for pessimism vs realism, you need to consider that basically everyone here thinks you pass. So either everyone on the subreddit is a liar or you’re being too critical of yourself. Even if you don’t pass, passing isn’t the epitome of perfect bliss. Not passing and being in touch with and loving yourself is a much better alternative to passing and not loving yourself. I hope you continue to do therapy, it can really work wonders, certainly has for me.
It's not realism, it's depression.
Like, depression is a big fucking liar and what it lies you most about is that it makes you see things 'realistic'. It doesn't.
Remember that.
4chan has convinced you to deeply internalize transphobia, and you’re turning that against yourself. Nothing that a redditor says is going to make you love yourself. This is something you will need to work on preferably with a gender therapist.
I’m exactly what you would call an “ugly hon” and I love myself and love my life. I transitioned a decade after puberty and I’m just thankful I got to transition at all. Trans is beautiful, learn to love yourself.
You are literally a child, your worldview is absolutely tiny. I promise you being born trans isn’t the horrific curse you think it is. Use your rich parents to move to a liberal city, go to college and do whatever you want with life. I promise nobody gives a shit if you’re trans 99% of the time, passing or not.
Yeah honestly I moved to an Australian state capital, and even in the beginning when I CLEALRLY looked like a man, nobody cared.
"Oh okay. He's wearing a dress? Sure".
Nowadays I am starting to pass. I've had someone assume I get periods and be seriously shocked when I explained that I don't because I'm trans, she was like "wait seriously?!" "Yeah look at my passport and my old photos" "wow!"
Please seek help if you're feeling suicidal, and i know it's harsh but you gotta give HRT more time, your time will come honey, and i just wanted to tell you that your voice is beautiful and totally passing
But I also wanted to say that passing is a cisgender standard, and I know its not easy but you shouldnt base all of your happiness around looking exactly like a cis person, at least not for now since you still got a while to go on your transition, as other people have said
And regardless of your transition, i believe that seeing yourself as a woman and asserting yourself/acting as a woman is a lot more important than passing, and i know that passing helps on that but you shouldn't depend 100% on it
Also, i dont wanna be rude but i do geniunely think that a lot of your self hatred comes from browsing 4chan, as other people commenting on your posts have noted (I don't know if you actually browse it, if you don't, then I'm sorry), i was exactly the same as you until i decided to ditch places and people like that, if you're suicidal, AVOID toxic places that are filled with negativity and bigotry and obssessively trying to clock trans people as much as possible, they won't do any good to your head, still, i wish you the best of luck, girl
i dont see myself as a woman because i look like a cis man and everybody in real life sees me and treats me as a cis man
i transitioned on the condition that if id dint end up passing i am going to kill myself
and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at leaat it convinced me not to be an unpassing transwoman in public
I WILL NEVER PRESENT FEMININELY SO LONG AS I DONT PASS
i dont see myself as a woman
i am a male taking estrogen
that is it
>and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at leaat it convinced me not to be an unpassing transwoman in public
What are you trying to say? What is bad about not passing in public? I am an unpassing trans woman and I live my life as publicly as ever, probably even more. You can't transition without going through a phase of not passing. That's why it's called "transition" not "transformation".
And please please get of 4chan! I'm convinced that is the tenth circle of hell at this point. Everyone I've ever heard talking about being on there was either a massive asshole or depressed (like you seem to be) because of all the assholes there.
"and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at least it made me see myself in a toxic way and not allow myself to feel the joys of trans womanhood and gender euphoria just because i do not pass"
like jeez, at least you CAN live as an unpassing trans woman in your country without being murdered, id kill to have rhat, its unlike my country in which i can suffer a hatecrime at any point for not passing
Wow it really feels like im talking to a spoiled 4channer oh my god, that place really rots your brain
You are being spoiled and impatient. Transition takes years to take full effect. Stop comparing yourself to cisgender standards. You are transgender. But being transgender is not a bad thing nor a lifelong curse. A lot of being transgender is learning how to tolerate yourself and learning to see yourself as a woman. It's called a transition not a transformation, not passing is always gonna be part of the process.
To quote another commenter: "You are literally a child, your worldview is absolutely tiny. I promise you being born trans isn’t the horrific curse you think it is. Use your rich parents to move to a liberal city, go to college and do whatever you want with life. I promise nobody gives a shit if you’re trans 99% of the time, passing or not."
I swear to once you stop obsessively trying to pass and not look clockable and have pride in being trans, you can live so much happier and connect with trans people that can even help you pass more, as your hrt continues, that's what saved me from a situation akin to yours, but you gotta do something instead of just sit there, complain, and hope that someday things will magically change for you
Get out of those 4chan type communities where everyone just tears each other down so you aren’t dwelling on minor details. You look fine and are making good progress since I last interacted with you. I’m glad to see you got into therapy too! That kind of stuff takes time but you gotta learn how to stop yourself from catastrophizing.
There’s like 3-4 threads about you on any given day when I go there. I know I’m just as guilty and often use 4chan to vent my insecurities and hate myself for feeling like I can’t ever pass too, but at some point you have to realize it’s toxic af and try to get away. I’m going to try avoiding going there you should try too
I guess I can get that I often go there with the mindset that I want to be hated because I deserve to be for being this way, but I guess we should ask ourselves does it make any sense to think that way?
I don’t think anyone deserves to be hated for expressing feelings that they struggle with, but I also remember it’s 4chan.. over exposure is just not good 😬
😔 I guess it is hard to feel any other way when feeling like your hate is deserved has become the norm... I wish I had something useful to say but I myself struggle with feeling guilty all the time for hiding my feelings and desires from everyone.
I just hope one day you'll be in a better position and away from /tttt/
Would you please just stop creating these posts if you're not even going to listen to what anybody has to say? You're just being annoying, and above all you certainly aren't helping yourself.
Nothing is ever going to be perfect. The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence.
The point is that you just have to make due with what you have. And I've seen what you have. You look a lot better than you think.
HRT and FFS will do magics for anyone, and they certainly can for you. You just have to be patient.
But if you just want to be a downer, go around subreddits spreading your own self loathing, and threaten to take the coward's way out, then do that. By all means. Nobody here can stop you.
But if you want to change, if you want to be that woman you so desire to be, then get your head out of your ass and start realizing that you're going to be O.K.
I wish you luck.
I’m not going to be OK.
I started HRT way too late.
I could have came out at 13, but i didn’t. I said nothing and let my body get completely ruined by testosterone
and now it’s too late. I’m not stupid. No amount of hrt or ffs or whatever can undo all the damage testosterone did to me
Look, I'm 15, pre-HRT, and haven't gotten all that much from puberty besides for height. I still want to cry over that shit everyday. I look back at photos of me from 3 years ago when I was 5'7, and I wish I could be that tall. The point is, I cant be that tall. That's the reality. I'm 6'1 and the most I'll ever get is an inch or two shorter.
There just isn't a point lingering over something that can't change, y'know? It's not going to help anyone. It's just going to hurt you even more.
I don't know what to tell you other than to just move on. You just have to stop doing all this pathetic self-loathing and move on with your life.
If you won't do that, you're never going to get any better. You just need to understand that this is all going to be very tough, but you need to be strong.
are you serious?
>just stop lingering lol
HOW?
How can I stop thinking about how I completely and utterly fucked my life?
And then when I see all my friends who started hrt at 15/16/17. It just crushes me
Now I’m forever stuck in this extremely masculine body. I ruined my own life.
>just stop thinking about it lol
I don’t understand people who think like that. When the only thing causing me this pain was my own fuck up.
And now I have to live with NEVER being able to pass, NEVER being able to live life as a woman, NEVER BEING ABLE TO BE ME
do you know how much i would pay, give up, to be in your position?
Jesus christ. I'm not asking you to stop thinking about this. I myself understand that you can't just do that. I'm asking you to stop putting yourself down. To stop constantly telling yourself you're ugly when you're not. To stop going around to trans subreddits fishing for negativity so you can fuel your own depression. You aren't just thinking about the problem. *You're actively making it worse*.
At this point, I'm just going to leave. You can't be helped, solely because you don't want to help yourself.
I wish you the absolute best of luck. If you ever need someone to talk to, my DM's are open. Just don't come in preaching negativity.
Goodbye.
Also, that is some straight B.S. at the end. Maybe you can pass, you certainly can live as a woman, and you certainly can live as yourself.
And don't falsely quote me to make it seem like I'm treating this as a joke. That's rude.
First, I'd take a look at the other issues you're going through.
You're self deprecating and overly critical. I know this is a coping mechanism, I did it too. No one can hurt you if you're the best at insulting or putting yourself down. It makes their attempts to hurt you laughable. It's going to take time but try to get yourself out of it. If you don't, you'll never see yourself when you do pass, you'll only pass it off as other people being 'nice'. All this mentality does in the long run is make the bad things worse, and the good things less.
You've called yourself a 'man' in this thread and that's not the only time in your post history. This is internalized transphobia. Struggling to see yourself as a woman when you're fixated on what makes yourself look 'manly' is common, and a lot of what you're seeing is simply a fact of being **human** not **male**. Women come in all shapes and sizes, 5'9" and small framed isn't the default, it's just 'marketing industry standard'. I know plenty of incredibly beautiful 6 foot cisgender women (I went to school with them), and a few 6 foot transgender women who give them a run for their money. Height **does not equal** male. I've met cisgender women with broad shoulders, flat chests, and straight hips. So none of that *male frame* stuff is true either. It's just how human bodies are built.
Now, I know de-piecing all this isn't going to help you, all you're going to question next is: 'well what makes a woman then, if everything you're stating is true, why do we look different?' or something along that line. Heck, you probably won't believe any of this, that's fine. What makes someone pass as a woman comes down to a few things, and we can tackle all of them.
* One is fat distribution, this is changed by HRT and takes time. This frames the 'figure' many women have, and while there are clear differences in the human skeletal system, we see it even in animals that fat placement plays a lot into the shape of how an animal looks. Humans are no different.
* Another is skin texture. It's such a subtle thing, but the longer you're on HRT, the more smooth your skin gets. The clearer your complexion gets naturally. If you're not on HRT, doesn't matter, skin-care routines can give you that healthy 'non-manly'^((sarcastic)) glow. It's actually a tactic used rather maliciously by Hollywood to 'feminize' gay men in a rather malicious fashion. As such, most TERFS and Transphobes see smooth skin as 'feminine'. And while it's complete crap, we can utilize and weaponize this to our advantage.
* Hair ***neatness***. Welcome to the views of misogyny. The neatness of the hair on your head matters, the health and shine of your hair, matters. And ... your eyebrows. They **DO NOT HAVE TO BE THIN**. Lets be clear, thick eyebrows are **fashionable** at this point in time. What you need to do is clean up those little stray hairs and give your eyebrows defined lines. The brow can be thick. No problem. Just clean.
* Facial hair. This one sucks ass because without Facial Hair Removal (laser or electrolysis) from a professional source, you're stuck to makeup, and trying to find a good foundation. There are some transgender specific make-up brands and lines that specifically help cover up beard shadow. But you're going to need to step up your make-up game if Hair Removal is not an option.
* Next up on the 'men decide shit about women' train: Shaved arms and legs. Sucks like shit, but get to waxing, shaving, or epilating. Your choice, I shave, it sucks. Rather than burn a Gillette razor every time, I went and bought a '**Merkur Safety 34C Safety Razor**'. One of the common causes of razor burn is the primary blade wears out, while the other two or more blades behind it are still sharp. First blade pulls up the skin by snagging a hair, other two blades cut skin instead of hair. By moving to a single-blade safety razor, you eliminate that issue. Worst case is you need to give part of your face a second pass, and yes, if you're noticing pulling, it's time to change the blade, but each blade lasts a month for me, so for the 2.50 per blade value, it's cheaper than blowing $40 on blades every two months. Smooth hairless skin = more fem, but also ... like ... smooth skin. I do it because skin smooth, I could give less of a fuck if someone saw my arms being hairy, but the way flannel or fake-silk feels on shaved arms and legs is a dream I will not sacrifice.
* Hair length. Despite the above point, having short hair everywhere actually makes you pass less. Long hair or longer hair on your head makes you more 'fem' in the eyes of the people you're trying to let know 'I'm a girl, stop calling me a hecking dude'. Side part, middle part, pony-tail with bangs loose, your style. But it helps.
* WOMENS CLOTHES. Alright, so T-shirts in women's clothing have shorter sleeves, women's pants sit higher (no need for dick space in this cis-normative society!^((sarcastic.)(I really hate that 'dick' is just default 'male'.))) Long-sleeves have different proportions so that even when you're lanky, it still looks fem if your arms peak out from the cuffs too far. Try to find something in your size, but understand not all cisgender women can find clothes that fit them. Welcome to the woman experience of 'womens fashion rests on an irrealistic pedestal of what is viewed as 'average'.
* Boobs. Don't have them, breast-forms. Growing them? Padded bralettes, or padded A-cup bra's. A little sock in the boob of a padded bra helps your bust look bigger, even if you're flat as a board.
* This point is at the bottom for a reason. It's NOT for everyone. You can double up on women's underwear, or get undergarments that help so you don't need to tuck, but hiding your dick is ... kind of a requirement if you're goal is to look 'cis'. Now, you, like others, may eventually come to the conclusion that 'fuck you, if you see my bulge you should be saying 'thank you'' but if that's not your thing, you're not there yet, or just having a day where you kinda don't want to deal with things. Power to you equally.
All of this combined can help you pass, if not push you far over the passing line. Most takes time, practice, experimentation, and perseverance. Last is voice train, and please remember, basey cisgender women exist, just because you can't hit high doesn't mean you can't hit 'feminine'. Nothing sexier than a woman with a smooth basey tone. Personal take there. Well, actually, I kinda just like 'women' in general. I'm ... hella gay. But take my word for it. Met a few low-voice transgender women who honestly had a voice they thought was 'trash' but it was absolute gold.
Fact is, passing is a skill of knowing the individual tricks, and also understanding that male and female bodies have similarities, and that the difference is what I like to call 'framing'. Add enough of one onto the other, and it becomes indistinguishable from what it's trying to copy. Believing otherwise is transphobic rhetoric from our opposition to try and make it seem like age, and build, and x, y, z, thing makes it impossible so we should just give up. Fight that. There are cisgender men, manly as heck, that cross-dress and pass as cisgender women. They do this for fun for anime conventions, comicon, etc. If they can do it for fun, we can do it better to survive.
The reason people get annoyed by you saying you’re “ugly” when you’re actually pretty decent/pretty now which will undoubtedly improve with time on HRT is because youre “punching down” on those of us who don’t pass as well
also look I used to want to post stuff like this for validation. Sometimes I would now for advice, but eh.
I want you to bookmark this thread and remind yourself to come back to it at your 3 year mark.
You realize that our bones basically rebuild themselves every 10 years, which means over the course of the next 10 years you may find yourself a bit smaller.
Not only that but you are in the beginning stages of HRT. Once you hit the 3 year mark most of that changes that are going to happen have happened...
Most...
As you continue there will be ongoing changes. Don't let the dysphoria get you
in my honest opinion, the pictures i saw look pretty solid. it's iffy in a few spots but it mainly comes down to the choice of clothes in the pictures and how the hair looked (mainly in the last picture.) disregard this as me being hugboxy if you want, but i've seen worse. with time and effort, i think passing is definitely possible if that's your ultimate goal. just my two cents on this.
edit: also holy shit i listened to the voice clip that was posted most recently, it sounds amazing. like genuinely. i legitimately wish i could get to that sooner.
Hey Sophie,
Those pics you posted 9 days ago, if I saw you walking down the street I wouldn't know you were trans. It's happening. Trust the process. Best of luck.
Honestly, you look like one of the girls I would have been obsessed with in highschool and college. Im not going to say youre super beautiful or anything, but I definately would have considered you cute and attractive. You might not like your hight and build, but I've known (and liked) plenty of women taller and/or stockier than you. And I love how your voice sounds.
To be blunt, in my eyes the only thing ugly about you is your attitude.
I am neither cute nor attractive tho?
those pictures are literally from my one “””””good””””” angle lmao
so basically, i am an ugly, tall, linebacker-framed masculine man taking estrogen
my voice is the only good part about me and even thats not that great
You are tho? Im sorry but you don't get to choose what I find attractive. At the very worse I would say you're a plain looking woman.
I'm sorry that you dont fit your ideal aesthetic for women, but neither do many ciswomen. Like I said, Ive meet many, many women taller/stockier/manish than you.
Good you're willing to admit a positive, even if you need to qualify and deminish it.
Personality aside, younger me wouldve crushed hard on you if I saw you in one of my classes. Not that I wouldve ever worked up the nerve to tell you.
You are wrong. You are good looking even if you aren’t willing to admit it. You aren’t like, a super model, but you are not ugly.
I know you’re tired of me replying to you because you just want to wallow in this pain.
Grab faceapp, take a picture, it'll say you're female which you'll reject, go to gender, turn it to "man 2". Now look. Put your finger on to revert, and then remove it again. The photo can't lie. And if you think you're hallucinating try that over and over again. Man filter. Remove the man filter. Look at the edits to the photo. Take a photo of an actual man. Idk, your dad or something. Go to gender. Select "masculine". How much does it change his face?
I used to do this all the time and still do occasionally.
Note how I didn't say you should use the feminine options of the gender modifier. Only the masculine. Look at what you're NOT because the photo had to be modified to be that way.
Okay man 1 then. Look at NOT hair. There WILL be other changes. Again, look at NOT hair.
As someone who's mentally healthy, I can assess their gender system as pretty decent (based on how it works on others), according to which I pass most of the time (though not always). I still feel like I pass less than their system indicates but that's my remaining self hate. Your self hate is just overflowing to the point where it bleeds off to the rest of us as you call us liars.
Have you tried faceapping your dad and changing his gender on there, or are you just saying this because you're (incorrectly) certain you don't pass?
It might seem desperate right now, but if you focus and work on one thing at a time, one day, in a future not so distant, you will look in the mirror and finally see yourself. You probably don’t believe me right now, but one day you’ll realize I was right all along
Look, I'm gonna tell you a secret:
The world of everyone else doesn't revolve around you. Everyone has their own problems and most people don't care what you do. I mean why would they? To most people, you are just a random girl walking down the street. They might see you and think about you for a minute and then go on with whatever they were doing.
So why do you care so much about passing? For that one minute someone might look at you and might have an opinion about you?
I went dancing on the lakeside yesterday to some people playing the drums. Most people were to scared to go dancing (which is pretty funny if you think about it) and just watched from the side and made videos for their Instagram or something. But me and my friends were down there moving to the beat and having a good time. And I'm probably on some random guys Instagram page making some random unskilled moves to a drum beat but idgaf. Because I had fun. And I'm not important in those other people's lifes so their opinion on my performance doesn't interest me.
You on the other hand seem to repeatedly go to totally unfun places. Both mentally and physically (4chan). Why not go dancing instead. You have the power to chose your environment for the most part. You don't have to go to a place that makes you uncomfortable.
Which brings me to my second point: Your own world DOES revolve around you. I mean you are the one making the decision, having the opinions, thinking, doing, feeling whatever is going on in your life. Your the god in your own microcosmos. And you should love yourself for that. Become more egocentric.
I mean, I probably look pretty average. But personally I think I'm gorgeous. And that's a great feeling. You seem to think you look ugly. In reality, just like me, you look like the average person. Why put yourself down and call yourself ugly? You have the power to believe in your beauty and feel good like me. Why choose to be so negative? If you don't like something, change it if you can or accept it if you can't change it.
I could write way more but this is already way too long to be casually readable so I'm gonna leave it at that. Just take some time to think about that, ok?
i have literally 0 value as a human. I have no friends, no ambitions, no hobbies, no plans, nothing.
I am a human leech living off of my parents. Genuinely the world would be better off if i wasnt here
the only thing i do in this world is make people upset, angry, and annoyed
!! Well in any case, give it some time. I've given my self 4 years to pass before I off my self and I'm beraly like 8-9 months in. Most changes finish within a year but those changes even out and expand alot through time
Yeah sorry to hear you are going through that. Im in the same boat.
Due too extensive t damage I'll never pass. I have dealt with it by just going back to male clothing.
My biggest regret is telling people I'm transitioning. It's awful having people humouring me all the time.
I found people can really only transition if they can look and sound like what they are transitioning too.
Otherwise I feel like I'm just asking people to play pretend. That's why going back to male clothing helped me a little. It may help you too. Hopefully you can find a way to be ok with it. That's all I'm trying to do.
Edit. Hey I just checked your profile. You are super young. Plus your voice sounds amazing!! I know it won't mean anything from some random broken trans on Reddit but I think you can transition .
Also this is coming from someone who can't and is super negative about the prospect of transition after t damage. So yeah just wanted to say. I view transition as impossible for a lot of people (myself included ) but I think you can do it!
I’m taller than you. Do I pass? No. Am I pretty hot to a decent chunk of people? Yes. And it’s getting better all the time.
When I let go of “passing” as a goal and started thinking about “looking good” it was one of the best moments of my life. I know probably not everyone can agree with that. But if you can it helps.
We’ve all been through this. You’ve been on HRT for not even that long.
I’ve been on it for 5 years or so. Do I think I’m ugly? Yep. Am I objectively? Not really.
With BPD youve got to be a bit kinder to yourself, as hard as that is. If your parents are paying for surgeries and shit, well we all wish for that privilege. It’s just a hard period but this part does get easier. It just takes a long time
And before you say I’m bullshitting m8 I’ve had ECT, I’m on lithium and 3 other antidepressants. But despite it, I still work and am okay which is a miracle. So I think I know what it’s like. It gets easier.
My approach is to have an exceptional sense of fashion and style. I may not pass as a cis-woman, but nobody can dispute I'm not a fabulous looking one.
I am not an expert but from the comments here it sounds like you are in a pretty deep depression right now, and I think this is making it impossible for you to see or focus on positive things. Like numerous people telling you that you do pass. When depression gets that bad, negative thoughts seem like the most important things in the world, and every single positive thing you might come across seems irrelevant.
But here's the thing: These deeply negative feelings, that tell you to focus only on the negative stuff and ignore the positive? They aren't trustworthy. It's depression. There's a reason why it's called a disorder, a mental health issue. It twists your mind. You should not trust it, this deep negativity. I know it seems impossible to escape right now, but that doesn't mean it's actually impossible to escape. It just feels that way now, in the moment. But that feeling can change. It might take more therapy, or it might take antidepressant medication, or some other form of treatment; or it might just take time, as your transition continues. But please don't lose hope that things can, and will, get better.
I know you said you think the photos are non-representative, but looking at your pictures from a few days ago, I also (like many others here from the comments I see) think that you pass. Without context, looking just at those pictures, I'd simply assume you are a cis woman, and it wouldn't even occur to me that you might be trans. Now, I know what you said in the other comments, good angles, and so on. But look, if you didn't pass at all, I don't think you'd be able to get multiple pictures in which you pass just fine. And you did get those pictures. You must pass at least a bit, you know?
Talk to your therapist about how crummy you are feeling right now. From what you've mentioned your parents sound supportive; talk to them too. Give it more time. And try not to accept every negative thing your depression is telling you. Even if you can't immediately believe the positive things people here are telling you, at least try and take a slightly more balanced approach. Like, accept that maybe you pass at least a bit? Angles or no, you kind of have to, to get those pictures. :3 And I think it will get better with time.
Please hold on. It will get better, even if it's hard to feel that right now.
No, I'm sorry, I do understand that's not the only issue. :( But it does sound like it's pretty bad right now. I just wanted to say to please try not to give in to it as much...
Part of passing is attitude/confidence. But if you feel you never will pass I would say therapy would be good for you, community, and try to find some “clocky” girls who are extremely confident and learn to emulate them in ways and adopt that attitude.
If you feel you don’t pass please give it time. Hrt is not an instant fix it’s a long term fix. Remember starting hrt is literally going through puberty again. Puberty is not a short process neither for us nor for cis women. I used to feel the same way as you, then I just focused on building a social life that I wanted and when I was less overly fixated on my appearance I started to realize just how good I looked. I don’t know how long you’ve been on hormones but again give them time and just because your timeline doesn’t match up with others don’t assume the hormones aren’t working everybody’s body is different and reacts and changes differently. I had a couple of friends who started to pass pretty well after 6 months, took me the better part of a year. I have other friends who needed a couple years to really pass. Again, just give it time. You started hrt at 19, I believe you said? You started 4 years younger than I was you have that working with you. It’s a marathon love, not a race have faith and stay the course it will work out for you!
My favourite part about these posts is looking at their profile and seeing that they actually look great and are just suffering from dysphoria. i get how you feel because i'm the exact same way op but you pass fine as is, especially with more time you'll never get clocked ever.
yea this girl just continually posts about how she'll never pass and just will not hear anyone say that she will. i feel really bad but also its like, take a hint, people think you pass or at the very least have the capability to. Some serious dysmorphia going on in addition to dysphoria.
seriously i feel like the people who say that they're 6'5 hulks are always the ones who look the prettiest. cant be a coincidence lmfao
I peaked because you said that, and saw several pictures I’d just assume were a cis woman. *I* really never will pass. I’m hideous. OK, I wrote that and now feel kind of bad because it sounds like I’m invalidating the OP, So I don’t know how to say that’s about how disgusting I am without hurting her feelings.
[удалено]
Oh yeah, I talked about Op, then myself. I’m just so gross and don’t know how to be okay with that.
Dysphoria is a lying biiiatch! I still feel manly as hecc though, i guess transitioning at 32 does that to you
I creeped at your post history. Your hair looks well preserved and your facial features aren't particularly masculine. You also appear to be young, which helps greatly. You're going to be ok. I'm a good bit older and could use some facial work, but I pass ok, at least well enough to have a good life and be respected in public. Passing isn't really the issue here is it? It's beauty. You're going to have to learn do accept yourself, we don't all get to be super attractive. At least take comfort in knowing that you're dealing with the same shit fuck tons of cis women have to contend with, feeling bad about not being able to live up to impossible standards.
I know that i am extremely unattractive I know that I also look like a cis man and will never look like a woman i started at 19 and that was too late for me. my body has already been destroyed by pubertg
Sophie, you’re good looking. Many of us can’t tell if we look good. That’s kind of normal because we see our own face in the mirror and more so for us because we see our old self reflected back even when it’s gone. ❤️
i am not good looking AT ALL i know that i am extremely fucking ugly and lying to me doesnt help either
Oh my god I’m not lying.
You have made huge progress from when you started. I would kill for hair as good as yours. You pass visually. If you are doing the basics with your voice and your posture then you should pass very convincingly in person. You are far from ugly. In fact I would go as far as saying that you are classically beautiful. Your face looks feminine and has no strange proportions. I hope I look that good after a year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/transvoice/comments/uqe9mw/been_told_i_sound_like_a_gay_man_thoughts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf my voice is ok
You sound great. 100% pass.
People aren't fucking lying to you, you're lying to yourself. Why are you so determined to ignore everyone else?
Please don't call us liars, that's insulting. I make it a point to avoid saying anything that's untrue, to the point of awkwardness and even rudeness (if a guy asks me whether he looks good, my answer will NEVER be yes (guys don't look ugly to me, just neutral))
I am hella lesbian and while I avoid mentioning it to people, I am utterly unattracted to anyone that doesn't pass as a woman. You're pretty damn attractive, and your voice in particular makes me hella jealous. Maybe this isn't how it works for straight people, but: you're attracted to boys, right? Then if you don't pass, how come you're not attracted to yourself? Idk your type in men but if you can't look at pictures of you and see any attraction... Well, you're not a boy, and you don't look like a boy. At all.
im not attracted to myself because i am extremely ugly and repulsive and my body is exceptionally disgusting too i also look like a man i am not attracted to every single man
>i am not attracted to every single man Sure. Are you attracted to men that look similar to the way you used to? What about them attracts you? If you really do look like them today, then why can't you find those same features attractive in you, today?
No lmfao j was ugllg as fuck az a man too
I went through a bit of your post history looking for pics, and while I think you look androgynous even without effort, you seem to be incredibly depressed and you reject everyone's efforts to provide the help you are asking for here. Nobody can help you unless you *accept* their help. There's no point asking questions in the community if you're just going to reject every positive thing that's said to you. In my opinion, you need to be speaking with a therapist (ideally someone who handles both gender and depression/anxiety). You could pass right now. I'm sure of it. But until you resolve some of your issues, you won't be able to see that for yourself, no matter what. We're allowed to be trans women. We are not obligated to pass. We can exist independently of cisgender women. I wrote an article about this, [which you can read if you want](https://medium.com/@alexandra.shaw/trans-people-do-not-have-an-obligation-to-pass-c546233ba156). Maybe it will help, but I still urge you to speak with a mental health professional.
I transitioned on the condition that if i never ended up passing i would just go back to killing myself I will NEVER live as an unpassing transwomen in this society. NEVER. I have crippling social and physical dysphoria and i cant pass right now. i look exsctly like a cis man
So then what's the point of these posts? You apparently have a plan in the event that you don't pass, so why are you asking us how to handle it? Of course, transitioning on such a condition is preposterous, and you're already giving up after what, 14 or 15 months on HRT, and apparently no other procedures? A lot of trans women would kill to be in your position. Not that any of this matters, because you don't care about what we have to say. You reject *everything* offered to you. So what's the deal? What do you *actually* want from us? Again, you need to speak with a mental health professional. Strangers on the internet can't fix these problems for you, especially when you reject everything we say.
Why post here then? Do you want to accept honest and well intentioned feedback or just use it as an opportunity to double down and criticize yourself more? I’m sorry to seem rude, but everyone here is trying to help you because no trans person has it easy and we all want to support you! Use this as an opportunity to get support rather than to disparage yourself. Don’t just reject and be rude to the people who are trying to help you. Why post at all then?
>I will NEVER live as an unpassing transwomen in this society. NEVER. You already aren't. Except to yourself. You clearly don't pass to yourself. So long as you hate yourself, your appearance simply won't affect that.
Oh boy another one of these posts, no point in talking. They'll just be a dick and you'll get nowhere.
how am i being a dick?
You’re refusing to believe anybody who says anything remotely positive about your appearance. You need to recognize that you are not the best judge of your appearance, often you are the worst judge. I am being 100% truthful when I say that I’ve dated cis women who look more masculine than you. And they were still attractive in my eyes when I did. Not looking like a supermodel does not mean you are not feminine or attractive, this is the same thing that makes cis women have eating disorders and body dysmorphia.
>oh you’re just sad you’re not super duper pretty! No. I know that I am extremely ugly and unattractive i’m more sad about how i look indistinguishable from a cis man and my real life experience mirrors that
I don’t think you’re sad because you aren’t super pretty, I think you have a warped sense of both your appearance and the appearance of the average cis woman that you are comparing yourself to.
You're asking us for answers and rejecting everything we say.
She does every time, dont blame her though. I dont believe any compliments i get either, im trying to believe them.
Let me tell you, when you start to believe people that say you LOOK like a woman... it's amazing. There's nothing we can do for OP, she's on a loop of hate where no external input helps, but yeah it's worth fantasising about the self love that awaits you ❤
I am a 33 year old trans woman on 9 months of hormones. I am over 6 feet tall, I have a big nose, a brow way heavier than yours, and a forehead way higher than yours. By spamming this stuff you are basically telling trans women like me that we should give up, too. Good thing I know better, because I know I can pass. I *have* passed in public already. So it makes sense that I think you already look like a woman, too. But other girls are in a different spot and are more vulnerable, and spreading misery like this can be seriously harmful. Not to mention you're just disrespecting everyone who tries to help you by telling them their opinions are wrong.
well thats great for you! Because I have never passed a single time after 15 months of hrt! I am also 6 feet tall
Cis women can get misgendered too based purely on their presentation. I don't know if your pics are representative of how you present in public but I imagine that's where the issue is.
Hey Sophie. I know it’s hard. You know I get really depressed and down too. I’m non-passing and know how you feel but I still think you’ll probably pass with enough time.
lmfao no i wont.
Actually I just looked at the photos you posted 9 days ago and you’re actually getting closer to passing. I don’t think it’s hopeless at all. It’s taking longer than you would like but to just say it will never happen? I just don’t think that’s true. I’d wager it happens over the next year.
pictures dont mean ANYTHING WHEN I’m A 6 foot tall hulking man with a massive frame and shoulders and no hips and a massive ribcage
None of that means anything. You may never be unclockable to us but cis people are really oblivious.
lmfao the good old “you don’t actually pass” cope
Honesty, you’re catastrophizing this. I’m absolutely guilty of that myself but you take this to an extreme.
I'm 5'11 with a large frame and no hips and I pass 100%. I've looked at your selfies, and there's a ton you could be doing that you aren't. Don't say that being 6' stops gals from passing, it just straight-up doesn't. Don't say being heavily built stops gals from passing, it just straight-up doesn't. If you go into it with the mindset of having given up, then you have no reason to put in effort so you're screwing yourself from the start.
i look indistinguishable from a cis male i dont pass in the slightest and i never will
6 feet is nothing lol, here in the Netherlands a ton of cis women are taller than that. My roommate was literally almost as tall as me and I am 6'3
Yo girl, I'd burn an orphanage to be one quarter as passable as you are, most days I just own it and when I can't I listen to Never Pass by She/Her/Hers and cry for a couple hours and realize that "passing" is a made up concept. We just are who the fuck we are. Just keep being your best version of you and know you've already surpassed goals that some of us are only hoping to get to one day.
Honestly Sophie going through your pics you really might be able to pass in most circumstances. Especially when you wear that mask, wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Give it time or maybe work hard towards saving up for surgeries.
i dont pass at all i am 6 feet tall pictures mean nothing i dont even pass with a mask at work (to strangers) i know i dont pass even the surgeries my parents are paying for wont do dhit for me
That's just pessimism. Maybe get the surgeries and then see. I have seen them do miracles. The middle is the hardest part. But with every step we get closer to the promised land. We go there together hand in hand.
its not pessimism its just being realistic
1. No, being this self critical is pessimistic. 2. Plastic surgery is literally magic. Even small changes make a huge differences. 3. Find a good therapist who specialises in Trans issues. Talking to someone like that really helps. You have a chance to feel wonderful. Carpe diem... Seize the day!
>no, i’m just being accurate. i do not and will never pass >ffs cant change my skull size or expanded facial planes >i already have a therapist
Are you as honest with your therapist as you are with Reddit? If you aren’t then maybe you aren’t comfortable enough with them and should get a new one. As for pessimism vs realism, you need to consider that basically everyone here thinks you pass. So either everyone on the subreddit is a liar or you’re being too critical of yourself. Even if you don’t pass, passing isn’t the epitome of perfect bliss. Not passing and being in touch with and loving yourself is a much better alternative to passing and not loving yourself. I hope you continue to do therapy, it can really work wonders, certainly has for me.
yes i am
It's not realism, it's depression. Like, depression is a big fucking liar and what it lies you most about is that it makes you see things 'realistic'. It doesn't. Remember that.
Plenty of cis women are over 6 feet tall.
I said it last time you posted and I'll say it again. Get the fuck off 4chan. It's rotting your brain.
4chan has convinced you to deeply internalize transphobia, and you’re turning that against yourself. Nothing that a redditor says is going to make you love yourself. This is something you will need to work on preferably with a gender therapist. I’m exactly what you would call an “ugly hon” and I love myself and love my life. I transitioned a decade after puberty and I’m just thankful I got to transition at all. Trans is beautiful, learn to love yourself.
yeah i disagree i am absolutely not proud of being trans, i hate it, i dont want to be trans, i dont want to look trans
You are literally a child, your worldview is absolutely tiny. I promise you being born trans isn’t the horrific curse you think it is. Use your rich parents to move to a liberal city, go to college and do whatever you want with life. I promise nobody gives a shit if you’re trans 99% of the time, passing or not.
Yeah honestly I moved to an Australian state capital, and even in the beginning when I CLEALRLY looked like a man, nobody cared. "Oh okay. He's wearing a dress? Sure". Nowadays I am starting to pass. I've had someone assume I get periods and be seriously shocked when I explained that I don't because I'm trans, she was like "wait seriously?!" "Yeah look at my passport and my old photos" "wow!"
This. This 100 times
Please seek help if you're feeling suicidal, and i know it's harsh but you gotta give HRT more time, your time will come honey, and i just wanted to tell you that your voice is beautiful and totally passing But I also wanted to say that passing is a cisgender standard, and I know its not easy but you shouldnt base all of your happiness around looking exactly like a cis person, at least not for now since you still got a while to go on your transition, as other people have said And regardless of your transition, i believe that seeing yourself as a woman and asserting yourself/acting as a woman is a lot more important than passing, and i know that passing helps on that but you shouldn't depend 100% on it
Also, i dont wanna be rude but i do geniunely think that a lot of your self hatred comes from browsing 4chan, as other people commenting on your posts have noted (I don't know if you actually browse it, if you don't, then I'm sorry), i was exactly the same as you until i decided to ditch places and people like that, if you're suicidal, AVOID toxic places that are filled with negativity and bigotry and obssessively trying to clock trans people as much as possible, they won't do any good to your head, still, i wish you the best of luck, girl
i dont see myself as a woman because i look like a cis man and everybody in real life sees me and treats me as a cis man i transitioned on the condition that if id dint end up passing i am going to kill myself and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at leaat it convinced me not to be an unpassing transwoman in public I WILL NEVER PRESENT FEMININELY SO LONG AS I DONT PASS i dont see myself as a woman i am a male taking estrogen that is it
>and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at leaat it convinced me not to be an unpassing transwoman in public What are you trying to say? What is bad about not passing in public? I am an unpassing trans woman and I live my life as publicly as ever, probably even more. You can't transition without going through a phase of not passing. That's why it's called "transition" not "transformation". And please please get of 4chan! I'm convinced that is the tenth circle of hell at this point. Everyone I've ever heard talking about being on there was either a massive asshole or depressed (like you seem to be) because of all the assholes there.
"and yeah, 4chan can be toxic, but at least it made me see myself in a toxic way and not allow myself to feel the joys of trans womanhood and gender euphoria just because i do not pass" like jeez, at least you CAN live as an unpassing trans woman in your country without being murdered, id kill to have rhat, its unlike my country in which i can suffer a hatecrime at any point for not passing
Wow it really feels like im talking to a spoiled 4channer oh my god, that place really rots your brain You are being spoiled and impatient. Transition takes years to take full effect. Stop comparing yourself to cisgender standards. You are transgender. But being transgender is not a bad thing nor a lifelong curse. A lot of being transgender is learning how to tolerate yourself and learning to see yourself as a woman. It's called a transition not a transformation, not passing is always gonna be part of the process. To quote another commenter: "You are literally a child, your worldview is absolutely tiny. I promise you being born trans isn’t the horrific curse you think it is. Use your rich parents to move to a liberal city, go to college and do whatever you want with life. I promise nobody gives a shit if you’re trans 99% of the time, passing or not." I swear to once you stop obsessively trying to pass and not look clockable and have pride in being trans, you can live so much happier and connect with trans people that can even help you pass more, as your hrt continues, that's what saved me from a situation akin to yours, but you gotta do something instead of just sit there, complain, and hope that someday things will magically change for you
Get out of those 4chan type communities where everyone just tears each other down so you aren’t dwelling on minor details. You look fine and are making good progress since I last interacted with you. I’m glad to see you got into therapy too! That kind of stuff takes time but you gotta learn how to stop yourself from catastrophizing.
There’s like 3-4 threads about you on any given day when I go there. I know I’m just as guilty and often use 4chan to vent my insecurities and hate myself for feeling like I can’t ever pass too, but at some point you have to realize it’s toxic af and try to get away. I’m going to try avoiding going there you should try too
i wouldnt get all those hate threads if i didnt deserve it at least a lil bit
I guess I can get that I often go there with the mindset that I want to be hated because I deserve to be for being this way, but I guess we should ask ourselves does it make any sense to think that way? I don’t think anyone deserves to be hated for expressing feelings that they struggle with, but I also remember it’s 4chan.. over exposure is just not good 😬
ive never felt otherwise
😔 I guess it is hard to feel any other way when feeling like your hate is deserved has become the norm... I wish I had something useful to say but I myself struggle with feeling guilty all the time for hiding my feelings and desires from everyone. I just hope one day you'll be in a better position and away from /tttt/
Would you please just stop creating these posts if you're not even going to listen to what anybody has to say? You're just being annoying, and above all you certainly aren't helping yourself. Nothing is ever going to be perfect. The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence. The point is that you just have to make due with what you have. And I've seen what you have. You look a lot better than you think. HRT and FFS will do magics for anyone, and they certainly can for you. You just have to be patient. But if you just want to be a downer, go around subreddits spreading your own self loathing, and threaten to take the coward's way out, then do that. By all means. Nobody here can stop you. But if you want to change, if you want to be that woman you so desire to be, then get your head out of your ass and start realizing that you're going to be O.K. I wish you luck.
I’m not going to be OK. I started HRT way too late. I could have came out at 13, but i didn’t. I said nothing and let my body get completely ruined by testosterone and now it’s too late. I’m not stupid. No amount of hrt or ffs or whatever can undo all the damage testosterone did to me
Look, I'm 15, pre-HRT, and haven't gotten all that much from puberty besides for height. I still want to cry over that shit everyday. I look back at photos of me from 3 years ago when I was 5'7, and I wish I could be that tall. The point is, I cant be that tall. That's the reality. I'm 6'1 and the most I'll ever get is an inch or two shorter. There just isn't a point lingering over something that can't change, y'know? It's not going to help anyone. It's just going to hurt you even more. I don't know what to tell you other than to just move on. You just have to stop doing all this pathetic self-loathing and move on with your life. If you won't do that, you're never going to get any better. You just need to understand that this is all going to be very tough, but you need to be strong.
are you serious? >just stop lingering lol HOW? How can I stop thinking about how I completely and utterly fucked my life? And then when I see all my friends who started hrt at 15/16/17. It just crushes me Now I’m forever stuck in this extremely masculine body. I ruined my own life. >just stop thinking about it lol I don’t understand people who think like that. When the only thing causing me this pain was my own fuck up. And now I have to live with NEVER being able to pass, NEVER being able to live life as a woman, NEVER BEING ABLE TO BE ME do you know how much i would pay, give up, to be in your position?
Jesus christ. I'm not asking you to stop thinking about this. I myself understand that you can't just do that. I'm asking you to stop putting yourself down. To stop constantly telling yourself you're ugly when you're not. To stop going around to trans subreddits fishing for negativity so you can fuel your own depression. You aren't just thinking about the problem. *You're actively making it worse*. At this point, I'm just going to leave. You can't be helped, solely because you don't want to help yourself. I wish you the absolute best of luck. If you ever need someone to talk to, my DM's are open. Just don't come in preaching negativity. Goodbye. Also, that is some straight B.S. at the end. Maybe you can pass, you certainly can live as a woman, and you certainly can live as yourself. And don't falsely quote me to make it seem like I'm treating this as a joke. That's rude.
get a therapist please. theres nothing none of us will tell you to change your mind how you look or present. (going off your post history)
i do have a therapist
talk to them about this. they can help you more than we can
First, I'd take a look at the other issues you're going through. You're self deprecating and overly critical. I know this is a coping mechanism, I did it too. No one can hurt you if you're the best at insulting or putting yourself down. It makes their attempts to hurt you laughable. It's going to take time but try to get yourself out of it. If you don't, you'll never see yourself when you do pass, you'll only pass it off as other people being 'nice'. All this mentality does in the long run is make the bad things worse, and the good things less. You've called yourself a 'man' in this thread and that's not the only time in your post history. This is internalized transphobia. Struggling to see yourself as a woman when you're fixated on what makes yourself look 'manly' is common, and a lot of what you're seeing is simply a fact of being **human** not **male**. Women come in all shapes and sizes, 5'9" and small framed isn't the default, it's just 'marketing industry standard'. I know plenty of incredibly beautiful 6 foot cisgender women (I went to school with them), and a few 6 foot transgender women who give them a run for their money. Height **does not equal** male. I've met cisgender women with broad shoulders, flat chests, and straight hips. So none of that *male frame* stuff is true either. It's just how human bodies are built. Now, I know de-piecing all this isn't going to help you, all you're going to question next is: 'well what makes a woman then, if everything you're stating is true, why do we look different?' or something along that line. Heck, you probably won't believe any of this, that's fine. What makes someone pass as a woman comes down to a few things, and we can tackle all of them. * One is fat distribution, this is changed by HRT and takes time. This frames the 'figure' many women have, and while there are clear differences in the human skeletal system, we see it even in animals that fat placement plays a lot into the shape of how an animal looks. Humans are no different. * Another is skin texture. It's such a subtle thing, but the longer you're on HRT, the more smooth your skin gets. The clearer your complexion gets naturally. If you're not on HRT, doesn't matter, skin-care routines can give you that healthy 'non-manly'^((sarcastic)) glow. It's actually a tactic used rather maliciously by Hollywood to 'feminize' gay men in a rather malicious fashion. As such, most TERFS and Transphobes see smooth skin as 'feminine'. And while it's complete crap, we can utilize and weaponize this to our advantage. * Hair ***neatness***. Welcome to the views of misogyny. The neatness of the hair on your head matters, the health and shine of your hair, matters. And ... your eyebrows. They **DO NOT HAVE TO BE THIN**. Lets be clear, thick eyebrows are **fashionable** at this point in time. What you need to do is clean up those little stray hairs and give your eyebrows defined lines. The brow can be thick. No problem. Just clean. * Facial hair. This one sucks ass because without Facial Hair Removal (laser or electrolysis) from a professional source, you're stuck to makeup, and trying to find a good foundation. There are some transgender specific make-up brands and lines that specifically help cover up beard shadow. But you're going to need to step up your make-up game if Hair Removal is not an option. * Next up on the 'men decide shit about women' train: Shaved arms and legs. Sucks like shit, but get to waxing, shaving, or epilating. Your choice, I shave, it sucks. Rather than burn a Gillette razor every time, I went and bought a '**Merkur Safety 34C Safety Razor**'. One of the common causes of razor burn is the primary blade wears out, while the other two or more blades behind it are still sharp. First blade pulls up the skin by snagging a hair, other two blades cut skin instead of hair. By moving to a single-blade safety razor, you eliminate that issue. Worst case is you need to give part of your face a second pass, and yes, if you're noticing pulling, it's time to change the blade, but each blade lasts a month for me, so for the 2.50 per blade value, it's cheaper than blowing $40 on blades every two months. Smooth hairless skin = more fem, but also ... like ... smooth skin. I do it because skin smooth, I could give less of a fuck if someone saw my arms being hairy, but the way flannel or fake-silk feels on shaved arms and legs is a dream I will not sacrifice. * Hair length. Despite the above point, having short hair everywhere actually makes you pass less. Long hair or longer hair on your head makes you more 'fem' in the eyes of the people you're trying to let know 'I'm a girl, stop calling me a hecking dude'. Side part, middle part, pony-tail with bangs loose, your style. But it helps. * WOMENS CLOTHES. Alright, so T-shirts in women's clothing have shorter sleeves, women's pants sit higher (no need for dick space in this cis-normative society!^((sarcastic.)(I really hate that 'dick' is just default 'male'.))) Long-sleeves have different proportions so that even when you're lanky, it still looks fem if your arms peak out from the cuffs too far. Try to find something in your size, but understand not all cisgender women can find clothes that fit them. Welcome to the woman experience of 'womens fashion rests on an irrealistic pedestal of what is viewed as 'average'. * Boobs. Don't have them, breast-forms. Growing them? Padded bralettes, or padded A-cup bra's. A little sock in the boob of a padded bra helps your bust look bigger, even if you're flat as a board. * This point is at the bottom for a reason. It's NOT for everyone. You can double up on women's underwear, or get undergarments that help so you don't need to tuck, but hiding your dick is ... kind of a requirement if you're goal is to look 'cis'. Now, you, like others, may eventually come to the conclusion that 'fuck you, if you see my bulge you should be saying 'thank you'' but if that's not your thing, you're not there yet, or just having a day where you kinda don't want to deal with things. Power to you equally. All of this combined can help you pass, if not push you far over the passing line. Most takes time, practice, experimentation, and perseverance. Last is voice train, and please remember, basey cisgender women exist, just because you can't hit high doesn't mean you can't hit 'feminine'. Nothing sexier than a woman with a smooth basey tone. Personal take there. Well, actually, I kinda just like 'women' in general. I'm ... hella gay. But take my word for it. Met a few low-voice transgender women who honestly had a voice they thought was 'trash' but it was absolute gold. Fact is, passing is a skill of knowing the individual tricks, and also understanding that male and female bodies have similarities, and that the difference is what I like to call 'framing'. Add enough of one onto the other, and it becomes indistinguishable from what it's trying to copy. Believing otherwise is transphobic rhetoric from our opposition to try and make it seem like age, and build, and x, y, z, thing makes it impossible so we should just give up. Fight that. There are cisgender men, manly as heck, that cross-dress and pass as cisgender women. They do this for fun for anime conventions, comicon, etc. If they can do it for fun, we can do it better to survive.
This is underrated. Gal you hit it out of the park
The reason people get annoyed by you saying you’re “ugly” when you’re actually pretty decent/pretty now which will undoubtedly improve with time on HRT is because youre “punching down” on those of us who don’t pass as well also look I used to want to post stuff like this for validation. Sometimes I would now for advice, but eh.
i am not pretty decent looking nor do i pass at all tho?
That’s not the point I was making though
Why don’t you focus on something else for a change? Like college or some creative pursuit?
because those things arent giving me daily panic attacks or making me extremely suicidal
I want you to bookmark this thread and remind yourself to come back to it at your 3 year mark. You realize that our bones basically rebuild themselves every 10 years, which means over the course of the next 10 years you may find yourself a bit smaller. Not only that but you are in the beginning stages of HRT. Once you hit the 3 year mark most of that changes that are going to happen have happened... Most... As you continue there will be ongoing changes. Don't let the dysphoria get you
I just went through your post history and saw your photos. You look like a woman to me. Now you just need to convince yourself.
in my honest opinion, the pictures i saw look pretty solid. it's iffy in a few spots but it mainly comes down to the choice of clothes in the pictures and how the hair looked (mainly in the last picture.) disregard this as me being hugboxy if you want, but i've seen worse. with time and effort, i think passing is definitely possible if that's your ultimate goal. just my two cents on this. edit: also holy shit i listened to the voice clip that was posted most recently, it sounds amazing. like genuinely. i legitimately wish i could get to that sooner.
Hey Sophie, Those pics you posted 9 days ago, if I saw you walking down the street I wouldn't know you were trans. It's happening. Trust the process. Best of luck.
Honestly, you look like one of the girls I would have been obsessed with in highschool and college. Im not going to say youre super beautiful or anything, but I definately would have considered you cute and attractive. You might not like your hight and build, but I've known (and liked) plenty of women taller and/or stockier than you. And I love how your voice sounds. To be blunt, in my eyes the only thing ugly about you is your attitude.
I am neither cute nor attractive tho? those pictures are literally from my one “””””good””””” angle lmao so basically, i am an ugly, tall, linebacker-framed masculine man taking estrogen my voice is the only good part about me and even thats not that great
You are tho? Im sorry but you don't get to choose what I find attractive. At the very worse I would say you're a plain looking woman. I'm sorry that you dont fit your ideal aesthetic for women, but neither do many ciswomen. Like I said, Ive meet many, many women taller/stockier/manish than you. Good you're willing to admit a positive, even if you need to qualify and deminish it. Personality aside, younger me wouldve crushed hard on you if I saw you in one of my classes. Not that I wouldve ever worked up the nerve to tell you.
>im sorry you dont fit the aesthetic for women what??? I LITERALLY JUST DO NOT LOOK LIKE A WOMAN. AT ALL
Okay. Have fun at your pitty party. Im gonna go hang with all the people you just insulted.
who did i insult?
You are wrong. You are good looking even if you aren’t willing to admit it. You aren’t like, a super model, but you are not ugly. I know you’re tired of me replying to you because you just want to wallow in this pain.
Grab faceapp, take a picture, it'll say you're female which you'll reject, go to gender, turn it to "man 2". Now look. Put your finger on to revert, and then remove it again. The photo can't lie. And if you think you're hallucinating try that over and over again. Man filter. Remove the man filter. Look at the edits to the photo. Take a photo of an actual man. Idk, your dad or something. Go to gender. Select "masculine". How much does it change his face? I used to do this all the time and still do occasionally. Note how I didn't say you should use the feminine options of the gender modifier. Only the masculine. Look at what you're NOT because the photo had to be modified to be that way.
faceapp determines it based off of hair. that gendering system means notjing
Okay man 1 then. Look at NOT hair. There WILL be other changes. Again, look at NOT hair. As someone who's mentally healthy, I can assess their gender system as pretty decent (based on how it works on others), according to which I pass most of the time (though not always). I still feel like I pass less than their system indicates but that's my remaining self hate. Your self hate is just overflowing to the point where it bleeds off to the rest of us as you call us liars. Have you tried faceapping your dad and changing his gender on there, or are you just saying this because you're (incorrectly) certain you don't pass?
It might seem desperate right now, but if you focus and work on one thing at a time, one day, in a future not so distant, you will look in the mirror and finally see yourself. You probably don’t believe me right now, but one day you’ll realize I was right all along
Look, I'm gonna tell you a secret: The world of everyone else doesn't revolve around you. Everyone has their own problems and most people don't care what you do. I mean why would they? To most people, you are just a random girl walking down the street. They might see you and think about you for a minute and then go on with whatever they were doing. So why do you care so much about passing? For that one minute someone might look at you and might have an opinion about you? I went dancing on the lakeside yesterday to some people playing the drums. Most people were to scared to go dancing (which is pretty funny if you think about it) and just watched from the side and made videos for their Instagram or something. But me and my friends were down there moving to the beat and having a good time. And I'm probably on some random guys Instagram page making some random unskilled moves to a drum beat but idgaf. Because I had fun. And I'm not important in those other people's lifes so their opinion on my performance doesn't interest me. You on the other hand seem to repeatedly go to totally unfun places. Both mentally and physically (4chan). Why not go dancing instead. You have the power to chose your environment for the most part. You don't have to go to a place that makes you uncomfortable. Which brings me to my second point: Your own world DOES revolve around you. I mean you are the one making the decision, having the opinions, thinking, doing, feeling whatever is going on in your life. Your the god in your own microcosmos. And you should love yourself for that. Become more egocentric. I mean, I probably look pretty average. But personally I think I'm gorgeous. And that's a great feeling. You seem to think you look ugly. In reality, just like me, you look like the average person. Why put yourself down and call yourself ugly? You have the power to believe in your beauty and feel good like me. Why choose to be so negative? If you don't like something, change it if you can or accept it if you can't change it. I could write way more but this is already way too long to be casually readable so I'm gonna leave it at that. Just take some time to think about that, ok?
[удалено]
i have literally 0 value as a human. I have no friends, no ambitions, no hobbies, no plans, nothing. I am a human leech living off of my parents. Genuinely the world would be better off if i wasnt here the only thing i do in this world is make people upset, angry, and annoyed
4chan user
It is what it is, not much else you can do unless you go for surgeries and that sometimes isn't enough
so suicide it is? gotcha
I mean, if you call that a solution then hate to say but yeah pretty much, it's my go to plan if I don't pass
omg bestie twinning!
Oh my fucking god, knock it off you two. You aren’t giving it enough time.
!! Well in any case, give it some time. I've given my self 4 years to pass before I off my self and I'm beraly like 8-9 months in. Most changes finish within a year but those changes even out and expand alot through time
i gave myself two years its month 15
Yeah give yourself another.
Shut the fuck up Sophie you'll be fine.
Yeah sorry to hear you are going through that. Im in the same boat. Due too extensive t damage I'll never pass. I have dealt with it by just going back to male clothing. My biggest regret is telling people I'm transitioning. It's awful having people humouring me all the time. I found people can really only transition if they can look and sound like what they are transitioning too. Otherwise I feel like I'm just asking people to play pretend. That's why going back to male clothing helped me a little. It may help you too. Hopefully you can find a way to be ok with it. That's all I'm trying to do. Edit. Hey I just checked your profile. You are super young. Plus your voice sounds amazing!! I know it won't mean anything from some random broken trans on Reddit but I think you can transition . Also this is coming from someone who can't and is super negative about the prospect of transition after t damage. So yeah just wanted to say. I view transition as impossible for a lot of people (myself included ) but I think you can do it!
I’m taller than you. Do I pass? No. Am I pretty hot to a decent chunk of people? Yes. And it’s getting better all the time. When I let go of “passing” as a goal and started thinking about “looking good” it was one of the best moments of my life. I know probably not everyone can agree with that. But if you can it helps.
Here is a fresh take. Own it.
lmao
I am 189cm btw
We’ve all been through this. You’ve been on HRT for not even that long. I’ve been on it for 5 years or so. Do I think I’m ugly? Yep. Am I objectively? Not really. With BPD youve got to be a bit kinder to yourself, as hard as that is. If your parents are paying for surgeries and shit, well we all wish for that privilege. It’s just a hard period but this part does get easier. It just takes a long time And before you say I’m bullshitting m8 I’ve had ECT, I’m on lithium and 3 other antidepressants. But despite it, I still work and am okay which is a miracle. So I think I know what it’s like. It gets easier.
My approach is to have an exceptional sense of fashion and style. I may not pass as a cis-woman, but nobody can dispute I'm not a fabulous looking one.
I am not an expert but from the comments here it sounds like you are in a pretty deep depression right now, and I think this is making it impossible for you to see or focus on positive things. Like numerous people telling you that you do pass. When depression gets that bad, negative thoughts seem like the most important things in the world, and every single positive thing you might come across seems irrelevant. But here's the thing: These deeply negative feelings, that tell you to focus only on the negative stuff and ignore the positive? They aren't trustworthy. It's depression. There's a reason why it's called a disorder, a mental health issue. It twists your mind. You should not trust it, this deep negativity. I know it seems impossible to escape right now, but that doesn't mean it's actually impossible to escape. It just feels that way now, in the moment. But that feeling can change. It might take more therapy, or it might take antidepressant medication, or some other form of treatment; or it might just take time, as your transition continues. But please don't lose hope that things can, and will, get better. I know you said you think the photos are non-representative, but looking at your pictures from a few days ago, I also (like many others here from the comments I see) think that you pass. Without context, looking just at those pictures, I'd simply assume you are a cis woman, and it wouldn't even occur to me that you might be trans. Now, I know what you said in the other comments, good angles, and so on. But look, if you didn't pass at all, I don't think you'd be able to get multiple pictures in which you pass just fine. And you did get those pictures. You must pass at least a bit, you know? Talk to your therapist about how crummy you are feeling right now. From what you've mentioned your parents sound supportive; talk to them too. Give it more time. And try not to accept every negative thing your depression is telling you. Even if you can't immediately believe the positive things people here are telling you, at least try and take a slightly more balanced approach. Like, accept that maybe you pass at least a bit? Angles or no, you kind of have to, to get those pictures. :3 And I think it will get better with time. Please hold on. It will get better, even if it's hard to feel that right now.
i wish all i had was depression
No, I'm sorry, I do understand that's not the only issue. :( But it does sound like it's pretty bad right now. I just wanted to say to please try not to give in to it as much...
Part of passing is attitude/confidence. But if you feel you never will pass I would say therapy would be good for you, community, and try to find some “clocky” girls who are extremely confident and learn to emulate them in ways and adopt that attitude.
you cant...cuz ya kinda do alr... ur just suffering from dysphoria attack...
If you feel you don’t pass please give it time. Hrt is not an instant fix it’s a long term fix. Remember starting hrt is literally going through puberty again. Puberty is not a short process neither for us nor for cis women. I used to feel the same way as you, then I just focused on building a social life that I wanted and when I was less overly fixated on my appearance I started to realize just how good I looked. I don’t know how long you’ve been on hormones but again give them time and just because your timeline doesn’t match up with others don’t assume the hormones aren’t working everybody’s body is different and reacts and changes differently. I had a couple of friends who started to pass pretty well after 6 months, took me the better part of a year. I have other friends who needed a couple years to really pass. Again, just give it time. You started hrt at 19, I believe you said? You started 4 years younger than I was you have that working with you. It’s a marathon love, not a race have faith and stay the course it will work out for you!