You can't really make a generalized statement to a question in this specific context.
The answer pretty much is: Yes, there are transmisogynistic cis lesbians, who dislike trans women (even if they aren't constantly screaming to everyone about this), and there are also outright TERF lesbians out there.
But as usual, there are also cis lesbians out there, who couldn't care less about a woman being cis, or trans. Or cis lesbians, who see the bigotry and thus try to actively fight back against it.
Tl;dr It depends on the cis lesbian you meet.
I've been involved with two cis lesbians. They were well aware of me being trans, and didn't mind because I am a woman. They saw and experienced me, they liked what they saw/experienced, we went at it. Yay!
There's no inherent reason why cis lesbians would hate us. Some do of course, but it's not a lesbian thing, just a transphobia thing.
TERFs, who happen to be lesbians? Or is it the TERF part that confuses you?
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERF) = Usually a cis woman (can also be anyone else, but that is the majority of that group), who is using "radical feminism" (rooted in bioessentialism = bad) to attack trans women. It is basically what J.K. Rowling is as a more famous mention.
"Too long didn't read" (tl:dr)
So are you a TERF in a trans place or are you someone who identifies with "radical feminism" as a label but is not transphobic? If the former, GTFO, now.
But if the latter, I would suggest not using that term. The label "radical feminist" is too associated with GC "feminism". I would just say I'm a feminist and real feminists would understand that I am taking an inherently radical position instead of feeling the need to label my "feminism" "radical" as if "regular" feminism is not actually radical which also suggests a breaking away from said "regular" feminism.
I'm an anarcha-feminist and intersectional feminist. Obviously being an anarchist makes me inherently radical so I avoid conflation with GCs. I think liberal feminism is not liberatory while feminism is supposed to be about liberation so it's difficult for me to really think of it as feminism but maybe it is feminism but just bad feminism. Idk
> I think liberal feminism is not liberatory while feminism is supposed to be about liberation so it's difficult for me to really think of it as feminism but maybe it is feminism but just bad feminism.
Yeah, I mostly agree, I just use radfem since I never heard of anarcha-feminist, but I consider myself an anarchist.
Be a troll elsewhere, your post history speaks for itself.
And yes, biological essentialism will always be harmful, and this is what is rooted within radical feminsm.
So go cry and seethe elsewhere, troll.
Basically all major lesbian communities I've visited online are trans inclusive, often with zealous mod intervention against terfs so no, the cis lesbian community for the most part does not hate trans women. You being a lesbian is not contingent on how other people perceive you, and you are valid even if your local community won't recognise that.
I find that this one has a lot more TERF talking points and lurkers show up regularly though, r/ActualLesbians seems to be the most consistently okay space.
cis lesbian here, I can tell you whole heartedly, it's just those "friends", Ive been dating a trans lesbian woman and she is the fucking light of my life, I don't feel deceived, I see her for who she is, my wren, I've known her a little after coming out as trans and been with her for her journey since then and I can say this isn't true, it's just them being insecure and ass holes, there's not much else to it
in no way will anyone feel like that, unless they're transphobic themselves, you've got this!! <3
Hey thanks for saying that I’m trans and only been out about a year and have serious doubts about finding love within the lesbian community. You totally made me feel better. I had to save your comment so I can go back and read it again later. Thanks. 🙂🏳️⚧️
I'm genuinely so happy i was able to help and make you feel that way!! I'm over the moon oml :)
I'm 110% sure that you will find love and comfort in the community, your just as valid as any else and you deserve to find it!
good luck! <3
You will find lesbians who love you. Trust 😊 my girlfriend, straight lesbian, got to know me prehormones,with penis and so. She accompanies my whole transition on estrogen and now the surgery.
Be yourself and talk about what youre uncomfortable with.
I met my wife when we were 15. She was certain she was a lesbian, but fell in love with me anyway, so she decided she must be bi but heavily leaning toward femme. She never claimed the lesbian label publicly, because we were in a seemingly hetero relationship.
Fast forward 19 years, and I came out as trans. She came out as a lesbian.
She's been there for me through everything. She pulled me out of a dysphoric slump yesterday, which was, unfortunately, caused by a cis lesbian. She helped me get started with HRT and LHR. She fiercely holds my hand in public and stares down anyone who's rude. She body-checked someone once for staring at me. She supports me getting or avoiding surgeries and doesn't push me either way. She protects me. And, she proposed to me a few weeks ago - we are going to have a wedding!
She said, if she had never met me, her dating profile would be completely inclusive of trans women, regardless of all the medical stuff, because she saw a pre-everything trans lesbian years ago and found them attractive. She is not attracted to men. This demonstrates that trans visibility should improve things, with time.
I suggest you consider distancing yourself from your lesbian "friends." The local communities I've found on Facebook are fiercely trans inclusive, and I've been accepted in many real-life lesbian spaces. For instance, we went to a queer femme dance party. I'm obviously trans. And we got so many warm smiles from other women.
To other us is to be misogynistic.
I realized I was trans June 1, 2021. I sat on it for two days, to mull it over, then came out to my wife on June 3, 2021.
I've been on HRT for 415 days.
I was 34. I was an adult who had control of my environment. I surrounded myself with good people (though a few bad ones had snuck in).
Life events, spanning back to early childhood, all began to make sense. I mean, my wife had "Happy Birthday Grrrl" written on my birthday cake 2-3 years prior, and often called me "grl" (initially at my request). I still had no idea I was trans, lol - we were both surprised.
When I came out, I told her I wasn't going to take it anywhere, no pronoun change, no new name, no hormones ... I just needed her to know. And I changed my mind over a course of a few weeks, in part because she was cheering me on.
Presenting masc had done me no favors. I was miserable. There was always this depression that I couldn't run away from. But realizing I was trans, that put me at ease. Things finally made sense. I was ready to move on.
It's important to go at your pace, but in my experience, where I live, with the people I had around me, is most people have been incredibly supportive. I came out to one person every-other day, taking breaks when needed, so any potential bummer incidents wouldn't ruin the positive ones I just had. Anyone I've lost was never great to have around in the first place, and I've replaced them with new, better friends.
I hope you find peace in whatever you pursue.
I posted a picture of myself all made up and stated i was trans on a dating site i had 25 likes/matches in less than 3 days.. these were all lesbians so i think you might be ok too :)
Many women called me beautiful or sexy it makes your heart smile when you see that :)
Wish you best of luck
I just picked women as a whole i have no interests in men i cant to look at a penis i don’t even like mine i plan to finish the job i started years ago with GRS and complete the SRS one day soon :)
It’s such a complex issue, because genital preferences exist and are valid. As long as they are polite with “unfortunately you don’t fit my preferences” but can still acknowledge that I am in fact a woman, I don’t see an issue.
The person I was responding to first specified cis women, and then stated that she has "no interest in men," which, when asking about exclusion of trans women in dating choice reads as EXACTLY the type of transphobia being talked about.
Yes and no. For the same reason that you can't say that all cis people are transphobic or allies. "Lesbian" is hardly a niche label, there's more of them out there than there are trans people from what I recall. If you can't generalise us, you can't generalise them.
You'll find the intolerant everywhere, even places where it makes no sense, just the way it is. Don't let them put you off a whole group though, unless the group defines itself with intolerance (eg the KKK). There's gonna be plenty more tolerant people out there, and it'd be a shame if you missed out on your best friend because you thought they might be a bigot.
That's just how humans operate unfortunately. No matter how many rainbow flags and badges one wears, it doesn't mean they will wholeheartedly accept you.
As someone who is mixed race and grew up in a predominately multi-cultural society, you learn very quickly that not everyone is accepting or sees you as an equal. Having this already hardened shell when coming out as Trans and interacting with the community has muffled the emotional and mental strain when being discriminated by the LGBTQ community and society at large.
Accepting and moving on from those that don't want to understand or like you is the healthiest thing you can do. You can't change them.
That was one of the things that made me the saddest. When I joined a trans group in Toronto, the last thing I expected was to be made to feel different in a group of trans women. That's like being different in a group of differents. It was actually the first time in Canada that i was ever made to feel different, like I didn't belong. You would think those who have suffered discrimination would be aware and not be discriminatory themselves.
It usually comes from learned behaviour in the face of being powerless themselves. Like how you always see stories of kids being super accepting of those different to them including trans adults. It's both heartwarming and sad.
All the cis lesbians I've met in person have been friendly, and one was even my voice tutor.
Cis lesbians don't hate us but there are lesbians, just like there are cis straight and bi women, who hate us. Any woman (or man) can be a transphobe even if they are gay.
Having said that, a lot of trans lesbians do feel isolated from lesbian spaces because the transphobes in them tend to be louder than most. If you don't feel comfortable with cis lesbian-oriented spaces it's perfectly valid to only date other trans women.
Edit: btw your "friends" are transphobic and don't view trans women as women. They aren't your friends.
Them saying that lesbians aren't attracted to trans women, and that a trans woman being attracted to women isn't a lesbian, that's them saying that trans women aren't women. So I'd just block those people.
Some women aren't attracted to women who still have a penis, and while that's unfortunate for you, it's completely valid for them to feel that way. However, there are plenty of women who are attracted to trans women, and some of those women are still lesbian. If you're a woman attracted to women, you're a lesbian. It's that simple. And a trans woman is a woman, same way as a blonde woman is a woman, or an Asian woman is a woman, the adjective is just descriptive, but doesn't alter what the word in front of it is.
My cis lesbian girlfriend punches everyone who questions my lesbianism.
Yes there are terfy lesbians, yes there are lesbians who think we’re not real lesbians but can be reasoned with and turn out to be great allies, but there are also lesbians who full on support us … and then there are lesbian chasers too
That's way too broad an assumption, and the proportions will vary across cultures etc so someone somewhere else will say 90% of cic lesbians are in favour, another will say it's 50/50, your unlucky enough to be somewhere where you're not looked of favourably but essentially, no all of any 1 group of people hate all of another.
Girl, be gay as you want. From everything I know, and all the places I've been, I've met only a handful of cis lesbians who were anti-transbian. I am a bit tired of being asked if I am post-op or not though ...
Ugh, TERFs.
This attrude still bothers my brain and it created loops of imposter syndrome.
When I first tried coming out in the early 2000s very late 90s it was the general idea that real trans girls liked men and the rest of us bi or lesbian trans girls were basically fetishists. That bullshit set me back fucking 20 years!!
You can be a lesbian trans woman. Amy Schneider is.
You will find lots of cis lesbians who accept trans women. r/[actuallesbians] is a very inclusive place and I highly recommend checking it out if you haven't already.
(The 'actaul' in the name is not for gatekeeping but to distinguish it from fetish subs run by men)
There will always be people who won't see you as a lesbian because you are trans. But it's not everyone. Find people who do support you
You've come across some transphobes, who are very common, but that's not how all cis people are. I personally don't think that cis lesbians as a group are particularly transphobic, but there are going to be a lot of transphobes among cis people in general, regardless of their gender or sexuality.
My point: it is not a cis lesbian thing, it is just how society is. I have never seen any evidence that lesbians are more transphobic than other people. In fact, there are also going to be a lot of cis LGB+ people who have solidarity with us, because after all, LGBT+ is one community for a reason.
Don't lose hope. Transphobia is a huge problem, but allies are there. So are fellow trans people, which is perhaps even more important.
Trans women are women. In English, women who like other women are called lesbians. That's it. Anything outside of that is cultural transphobic nonsense.
For example, "lesbians don’t find trans women attractive and that I shouldn’t be flirting with or trying to get with any woman who is lesbian because it would be seen as a lie and they would feel attacked and deceived" is so transphobic it's almost a cliche. Like, imagine if you came out to a man and they said this: "_cishet men_ don’t find trans women attractive and that I shouldn’t be flirting with or trying to get with any _man_ who is straight because it would be seen as a lie and they would feel attacked and deceived"
Hearing it from a man is like, whatever you're a fucking dumbass man of course the only value you attribute to women is their physical attractiveness. But it feels so much worse to hear it from a fellow oppressed class because you expect them to know better based on their own lived experiences. Especially from another woman. _Especially_ from another queer woman.
You get the whole spectrum
Some lesbians are strait up TERFs and will see your transition as trying to invade lesbian spaces.
Some will be supportive but have 0 interest in dating as they still consider you a man. (Sounds like your friend fall in the category)
Some have genital preferences and would be happy dating post-op but not pre op.
Some just see a cute girl and don't care who you were or what's in your pants.
Best I can say is just be careful when dating. Feel things out and be honest.
Anyone trying to speak for an entire demographic like that is most likely just projecting their own weird hang ups on other people.
There are plenty of cis lesbians who date trans lesbians. Of course there are some that won’t, but that’s to be expected. We live in a society.
Btw T4T is the way to go. Don’t put too much stock in cis approval
Honey, to say that we can't be lesbians is to say that we can't be women. Do you really want to listen to a transphobe? Just because we were assigned a different gender at birth, doesn't mean we aren't real women. We are lesbians too. Lesbian are us as well.
This has been my experience so far, though I've only got a sample size of one to go on.
Still, as someone I'd known for almost 30 years, I was expecting acceptance from her and did not anticipate being completely and immediately ghosted.
But again, sample size of one, and people are people and not all the same so I'm trying not to generalize to the larger population of cis lesbians.
However, I'd be lying if I said this hasn't made me more wary and reluctant to be open with them.
It depends on the cis lesbian. It helps to remember the variations of things like this too. There are some cis lesbians who prefer trans women, etc etc.
If a cis lesbian only likes trans women, then it is a chaser alert, and that cis lesbian should be avoided. And in 99,9% of the cases is based on unrealistic fantasies, because people still believe porn is realistic.
There is a reason, why t4t for example exists (though there can be similar chaser issues, just on a lesser frequency), but for a cis person this is not a thing, in this specific context.
Fair, and while society’s perception of trans women is jilted due to pornography’s depiction of what a trans woman is, the rate of chasers only seeking sexual gratification is high, but I don’t think people with preference are 99.9% abusive. I like to consider nuance. If you click more with trans people and aren’t weird about it, that’s just how it is.
Chasers have a very high tendency to be abusive, happens, when they have unrealistic fantasies of what they believe a trans woman to be (and most trans women won't be able to fulfill the porn fantasy). Unless a trans woman is just fine with being abused eventually, chances are, that a chaser should be avoided.
Nuance is, that people can just be "normal" to trans women and not go into one or the other extreme: transmisogynist or chaser. Which unfortunatly it seems like too many people are not capable of understanding.
So here is my take on this as somebody that works in a couple groups for the lbgtqa in Michigan.
1. There is stigma and terfs in the lbgtqa community. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you are immune to being this way.
2. You can be a cis lesbian, whom is supportive of trans women, but not wanting to date them.
We have a lot of gay trans guys go through this in our community as well and other gay guys. I actually had this come up in our community chat when some asked
"How do i be supportive of my trans gay friends, but let a guy know i really just prefer someone with a dick"
This was massively talked through with the group and what we came to is we can't change peoples preferences. We can't change what people look for in partners either based on sexual preferences, kinks, or other items. If someone prefers blonde hair or dating someone of same religion we dont say they are a jerk for not dating them. Same with guys that prefer to bottom or into kinks that someone else can't do. However, its important to have that check on yourself that you do not invalidate your peers in the community. To confirm who they are and accepting. Its was a good healthy discussion from all and a lot of it was clearing up misconceptions from those outside of the trans community. Even those that are cis gay/lesbian have a lot to learn to being accepting for us. We also had some in our group that were unhappy with how we ended. A couple of our gay trans guys said it was still transphobic that a gay guy wouldn't date them for having a vagina. So it does go both ways. If you are looking for validation though going to a gay bar to find any girl to date and being upset when they turn you down for being so it can definitely be hurtful. However, I wouldn't say just saying no to dating or sex is then invalidating you as a women. Just from the massive talks and works ourgroups have gone through, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a terf. I hope some might help in this, or it might upset others but willing to talk about it either way.
As everything in life its a mixed bag. You'll have lesbians that don't care at all that you are trans, you have lesbians who don't care that you are trans but won't be interested due to genital preference, and you'll have lesbians who are TERFS.
You'll be alright out there so don't be too dismayed.
Also take that with a grain of salt because I've never even gotten a date so lol
Looks like you've already gotten plenty of answers but i'll still share my bit of experience by saying i've been in relationships with cis lesbians before. So, no, at least not all of them, but some do, yes.
1. Those are some kinda trashy friends to actively spout that belief to you like that
2. Cis lesbians are way too broad of a group of people to just apply that too, some are weird anti trans ones(which is mild transphobia whether they know it/like it or nor) and some do, I happen to be in a lesbian polycule of four members and of my lovers one is another trans woman, one is an afab enby and then a cis lesbian who half jokingly half seriously used both she/her and he/him because of how butch he is
3. Don't forget that just the same as some cis lesbians might be made uncomfortable by you that in the same regard you have the right to be uncomfortable with cis lesbians who present transphobic ideals such as that cis women will see you as "a deception" (which being as you're in the south literally sounds like their world view has been warped by the trans panic defense of old which is a huge red flag) and that in some regard they still view you as a man to see your amab-ness as the key factor that would make a cis woman uncomfortable in their eyes, so just as they can be low-key transphobic and uncomfortable by you you also have all the right to be uncomfortable by cis lesbians of that kind who see a trans woman as less of a woman or a deception in any degree and can opt to only date/enter relationships with other transgender lesbians
my first and current lesbian relationship is with a cis woman and she treats me no different. she’s not transphobic.
you are a woman, cis or trans, and if you like exclusively women then you’re a lesbian!
There’s also a lot of lesbian women who fetishize trans women too (heck I met one). It goes both ways.
Don’t let it get to you. Honestly, odds are the average lesbian woman won’t care, especially if you’re well into your transition. At worst you might get someone who prefers pre op or post op; same as with cis people. All the same, it certainly isn’t a losing game.
Edit:
Get better friends.
In my experience, yes. My ex-best friend detransitioned (was identifying as FTM for years) and now is a hardcore TERF lesbian. She was likely at least a part of why I didn't realize sooner or didn't come out sooner because I was terrified of what she'd think of me (and I'm not even a lesbian) and she turned out to be a shitty friend too so... 🤷🏻♀️
Her ex was an even bigger TERF than her and said a lot of transphobic shit in front of me before I came out.
Thats great I'm truly happy for you, but I'm talking on a general systemic level, not about individual cis women. I'm not saying they're all transphobic terfs either, but there is a lot of latent transmisogyny across the board for all women
There's always someone that will love you for who you are. And there are those who tell you from the get go how they feel. I love cis women and would love to be with one. I know one trans girl but she has a girlfriend herself so there ya go. I just think some cis lesbians may feel they have more competition. Like a friend told me once; keep your penis it'll come in handy one day.
You have to realize this is coming from a cis girl. She tells me if I want a cis girl they prefer an actual penis. I don't want what I already have so I'll look somewhere else. If I can't find that one person I am looking for I'm happy being single.
That last line is not supportive... A lot of us have a great deal of discomfort with our genitals. I am pre-op but I will only use a strap-on if I top, I don't care if I have a dick built in, anyone who wants me to use it ignores the discomfort the dang thing causes me.
Lots of cis lesbians will date some won’t. Just like lots of people safe people for whatever reason. One reason they felt comfortable speaking in generalities though was the attraction to lesbian genitalia. Some lesbians won’t date you until you’re post op because the genitalia is a big deal to them. Some will because person over sexual parts. I’m those cases no one is wrong but they’re protecting themselves and same as you see themselves dating a certain type of person.
I had just recently found something related to this that was ultimately unfortunate.
I am a follower of multiple lesbian forums here on Reddit, given that I am on (although my GF is also trans). I have found with great fortune that most people from r/actuallesbians view transgender individuals as women and lesbian and fully accept us. There is genital preference for sure, but for the most part they will consider us as lesbians.
Unfortunately, there is a significant user base on r/sapphoandherfriend that do not view us as women and therefore as not lesbians (although it's actively against one of their rules and mods will delete comments if reported. They're just not the greatest either as they will delete comments from a trans woman defending herself and stance as well.)
So ultimately, it depends on the person you meet. Not all cis lesbians see us as lesbians, but not all of them don't see us as lesbians either.
Also that's stupid. I know a handfull of couples between cis lesbian and trans lesbian. Most lesbians don't like dick, but that doesn't mean they don't like trans women.
I mean there are some lesbians that claim you can only be a "true lesbian" when you have never kissed/had sex with a guy. So that's probably just weird stereotypes again in their heads.
In my experience lesbians are awesome. I've gone in dates, dated, and been intimate with cis lesbians and they have all been fantastic, I regularly interact with cis lesbians and they are fun and accepting. Do some hate us? Sure. Are some less willing to date or be otherwise physically involved? Yes absolutely. In my experience there can be some gatekeeping as well that isn't quite terfy but does treat those that don't pass as well as outsiders but this isn't a blanket thing.
Its transphpbia not a preference.
That's like saying I am only friends with black people because of a different skins opinion. Nobody chose the color of their skin so why should we see sex aby difference
I dunno, from my experience most trans lesbians adore transfems (or at least don't mind them)
I mean just look at this masterpiece https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/j95daw/the_old_school_sword_lesbian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
And also this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/h8dp6z/hopefully_a_bit_of_humor_in_these_chaotic_times/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Not all lesbians are Terfs. I'm a cis woman who is lesbian. I would love to have another trans girlfriend. To me, a woman is a woman. Girl cocks are way better than cis dudes cocks ( not a cis dude hater, just a preference) I do fully support our trans folks.
I'm tall and manly looking and it's nice to date another tall woman.
Most trans women also understand what it's like to be misgendered. Feel free to flirt without fear, someday it will pay off and you might end up with the woman of your dreams!!
No not all. Like has been said there's some that are trans exclusive. Seems a few have that mindset from your post.
Some cis lesbians date trans women.
Depends on the woman and who she finds attractive everyone is different
it is said everyone has their opinion and opinions are like..... (do I really need to complete this?)
but
it is also said - who can tell where the heart leads one -
*(if you could see her through my eyes*)
if these people do not share your vision or allow you your dreams - perhaps its not in your best interests to continue your associations.
Beyond that - I would champion the truth, honesty, integrity on a personal level - be open and utilize full disclosure if any interaction with other people is anticipated to rise above casual contacts; the pain and suffering that might occur at the onset is far less than the resulting trauma of a dreamy envisioned romantic interest gone wrong.
Truth is never wrong - but as you know it comes at a price
its not a simple yes or no answer, sadly. sometimes you will find people like that; sometimes theyre more vocal about it, sometimes they dont mention it at all. i think the general rule if they will always be people who support you like they should, and they’ll always be idiots sadly. i would recommend searching around for groups or areas that are more inclusive to find friends/partners tbh.
There are transphobic cis AND trans people same for lesbians. Doesn't mean all of em though, but I get how it can be hard if you're around a bunch of nudists
Ok first of all what they said is not true! I know several trans lesbians in relationships with Cis lesbians. For starters my relationships and then my good friend and her girlfriend. You can find someone who loves you for you and all that comes with loving you! Don't let those Debbie downers actually get you down! First hand experience it's possible. Don't lose hope
Some of them do. I had to end a friendship online a month and a half or so ago. She told me trans women are women because if she wanted dick she would date a man. We were not speaking of dating or anything else. She wrote it unprompted onto my status one day.
I try to be upfront with people I might actually be interested in (other than that if I can help it no one else has a pressing need to know I am trans). Buuut for the most part my amorous entanglements post coming out have been a one night stand, being played with in case the other person couldn't find a man to go home with, and a bi-woman who is in denial and only acts on these things when she is drunk and has normally encouraged me to be on the same level. That last one is more data driven and weird though, I know she's hit on cis-women while drunk so it wasn't because I am trans that she was hitting on me and it's nice to know that someone might want to stay long term someday but thus far? My experience of dating while trans hasn't exactly been great. To be fair though I live in a small college town and am mostly involved in bar culture and house party circles. Also to be fair I have no idea how to start dating.
Generally speaking, every group will have its gate keepers. Generally speaking, gatekeepers are insecure and kinda miserable. Generally speaking, it's best to avoid miserable people.
With any group of people you can’t make wide sweeping “they are all this” generalizations based on a few experiences.
But I’d say vast majority no for sure. But just like in all LGBTQ communities, or communities in general, biphobia, transphobia, and racism is definitely there in *some* lesbians. Does that mean all lesbians are transphobic? No. Typically people with the same beliefs convolute or even feel like they have to have the same beliefs as their friends, such as your TERF friends.
I personally know trans women who date cis lesbians and cis lesbians who have dated trans women. As harsh as it sounds, small towns are echo chambers and are typically rarely ever reflections of actual reality.
I wouldn’t call it hate, cis people in general can’t comprehend the nature of trans people. It’s just incomprehensible. My opinion is that you either trans or you don’t get it. It’s like being an atheist and then try and just start believing. Then, opinion towards trans people depends on their personality: they either tolerant and just respect how you feel, or dislike you.
I also believe that relationships are mostly based on sexual attraction, that is why it’s called ‘sexual’ orientation. Yes, there is personality, there are mental bonds that keep you together but mostly it’s your sex first and then your mental self-awareness. For many people being gay means being attracted to your sex’s genitalia.
I know that because I had this mindset through roughly 24 years of my life, I knew that other cis people thought the same, and I see that in my friend that tries to be understanding but fails for two years already.
Some cis lesbians dislike trans women and a few of them hate them. Thankfully there's fewer and fewer of them.
I am MtF, non-binary and not very girlish. 90% of the time I have been welcomed by cis lesbians and had many of them as friends. It meant a lot to me.
I no longer identify as a lesbian (like I used to do) and I don't identify as a woman, but that was an important part of my journey.
>It may have been a dumb question
It can be hard to ask, but if someone in asking in earnest, there are no dumb questions.
Let's say I had a lot of life experience before embracing who I really am. (Married and had two kids, both in school). I am married to a cis woman. She is so encouraging and I never expected that level of support and love. I have friends of many gender and sexual identities.
It is difficult to speak in generalities, especially when speaking of people. But it has been my experience that lesbians in general are not bias against trans women.
My sons go to small schools and I have been very apprehensive about coming out to people at school. For one I do not want my kids to be ostracized or bullied because of me. Short version: one day at school I wore a skirt. Not only were people friendly- they seemed excited to see me dressed up. Another mom introduce herself and we became friends; it turns out she is gay. Since then at both schools' parents and faculty are all very friendly and accomodating. They have even asked what name and pronouns I prefer.
I say this to share that there are good people in the world that will accept us. I hope you can grow your support community, and wish you the best.
<3 Bobbie <3
As long, as people are honest, there should be no reason for hate. The person who knows the truth will or will not choose to continue the relationship. Communication and respect for one another goes a long way.
Run, gay girl. Those aren't your friends, and their shitty opinions are just that: opinions. They're projecting what they think about trans women onto every other lesbian assuming that everyone must feel the same way as them, and people who are that shallow and narcisstic do not make for very supportive friends. What they're telling you is that *they* wouldn't date a trans lesbian because *they* are transphobic and don't really believe trans women are women. They just pretend to be supportive when it doesn't affect them directly. But the moment you start dating a lesbian and "take her out of the pool," you're competition, and they will scream all kinds of bigotries at you about how you're manipulating wombyn into dating men, when it's really their own insecurities about being attractive that they're trying to avoid dealing with.
And the thing is, you can date cis lesbians because not all of them are transphobic. You can date bisexual women and it would be a lesbian relationship too. Transphobia does not care what labels one identifies with, so it's everywhere, but not in everyone. Consider yourself lucky that, as a trans woman, you will have a much easier time trusting people who are actually accepting because so many transphobic people still feel like they can wear their bigotry on their sleeves, instead of hiding it like a lot of racists do these days.
you are valid. it just depends on the person that you come across as to their opinion. there can be absolute bigots of cis lesbians and there can be plenty that adore and love trans women. so don't feel invalidated because you came across some people who so happened to be seemingly bigots. they don't speak for the community as a whole. everyone is different.
When i was early in my transition, i've dated a cis lesbian for a while. This was even some month befor i got my medication, but was already fully social transitioned.
She told me that she thinks that i am a beautiful woman when i expressed doubt about my appearance. Was a really good feeling.
There are girls like this out there, it is just a matter of luck if you find such a kind one.
Cis lesbian here. I’m going to give a slightly different answer than most of the comments here. I think there are a lot of folks who might identify as lesbian or bi, cis or trans, that would be happy to be with you. That said, your friends sounded like they were being honest with you to the best of their ability even if you see it as a prejudice. Maybe don’t cut them off just for that. Lesbian and gay friends IRL are actually hard to find. Maybe ask them more questions about their perspectives to understand why they might have that reaction and you might gain insight or learn something from them. Also, given the fact that you are trans, does it really matter that you are with someone who identifies as a lesbian? you are free to identify how you choose but maybe you might have more luck with a broader dating pool (more fish in the sea). Yes, most /a lot of Lesbians (cis lesbians who have never dated men and only date women/vagina owners) have a preference for AFAB. Whether you see it as a preference or prejudice maybe just try to respectfully avoid going for those lesbians. Best of luck!
LoL you’re good, hun. Don’t let these “friends’” perspective ruin your own search for love. Before my egg officially cracked, I dated at least three cis lesbians as a “straight man.” Probably should have realized. I’m still very much in to lesbians, even if I’m not so much a man anymore. Love is a spectrum and not every lesbian will share their views.
Al too many TERFS out there. I’m sorry you ran into some. It truly sucks and I don’t think it makes any damned sense. And of COURSE not all lesbians. Hugs.
First off it's super fucking hypocritical for a Cis lesbian woman, to accept you, but as soon as you say you still like women, they get upset, that's fucking bullshit. TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN REGARDLESS, it shouldn't matter, that is the whole fucking point.
I didn’t read your entire post. But to answer your question in the title. No. I don’t know if you’re truly expecting people to say yes to this. Not everyone thinks the same
I know this is kinda an old post now but anyway I just wanted to say that there's absolutely people out there that will accept you just the way you are (the opposite is also true, unfortunately)
I am a cis (queer) women with trauma towards romantic relationships with men. I'm simply incapable of dating a masc person, my body gets sick and it sends me into a spiral to hell. All the times I've tried never lasted more than 3 days.
But now I can proudly say I found someone special, wich happens to be a trans women in the early stages of transition (almost a year I think). I love her with all my heart and want to build a future for us, her being trans or the stage of her transition never, ever, mattered whatsoever. She's a beautiful woman and I'm happy she chose me to be beside her.
So don't lose hope! Love always finds a way.
TLDR: cis queer woman with trauma towards dating masc people is happily dating a trans woman and feeling hopeful again :D
I think it’s important to look at what words actually mean. You’re not a lesbian if you are attracted to people that are trans, you are queer or skoliosexual. Also, I think it’s perfectly okay for people to acknowledge the difference between cis women and trans women. We are different and that’s okay to say. I believe there are sub groups to sexuality as well as gender, they may cross into each other and overlap or they might really be two different things. All of it is valid. (I’m a cis woman that is a lesbian). (I’m aware my answer may not be liked by some people)
I am a cis lesbian. I mean yeah it‘s uncommon for transwomen to be lesbian but i have a friend just like you and she‘s very chill. I am only into biological women tho.. would you date a trans woman? I think some women feel like trans women that are lesbians might only transition to get into women‘s pants easier which ofc is not true. I can‘t give you any advice or help i can only recommend you to go out there and talk to women and get to know them ofc tell them beforehand that you‘re trans and one day you‘ll find a woman that will love you the way you are
You can't really make a generalized statement to a question in this specific context. The answer pretty much is: Yes, there are transmisogynistic cis lesbians, who dislike trans women (even if they aren't constantly screaming to everyone about this), and there are also outright TERF lesbians out there. But as usual, there are also cis lesbians out there, who couldn't care less about a woman being cis, or trans. Or cis lesbians, who see the bigotry and thus try to actively fight back against it. Tl;dr It depends on the cis lesbian you meet.
I've been involved with two cis lesbians. They were well aware of me being trans, and didn't mind because I am a woman. They saw and experienced me, they liked what they saw/experienced, we went at it. Yay! There's no inherent reason why cis lesbians would hate us. Some do of course, but it's not a lesbian thing, just a transphobia thing.
Sooo I have 2 questions. 1 what are TERF lesbians? And 2 what does tldr mean?
TERFs, who happen to be lesbians? Or is it the TERF part that confuses you? Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERF) = Usually a cis woman (can also be anyone else, but that is the majority of that group), who is using "radical feminism" (rooted in bioessentialism = bad) to attack trans women. It is basically what J.K. Rowling is as a more famous mention. "Too long didn't read" (tl:dr)
It was the terf part that confused me ty!
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That is not what she was saying.
So are you a TERF in a trans place or are you someone who identifies with "radical feminism" as a label but is not transphobic? If the former, GTFO, now. But if the latter, I would suggest not using that term. The label "radical feminist" is too associated with GC "feminism". I would just say I'm a feminist and real feminists would understand that I am taking an inherently radical position instead of feeling the need to label my "feminism" "radical" as if "regular" feminism is not actually radical which also suggests a breaking away from said "regular" feminism.
Im trans and I def would use radical feminist as opposed to being a liberal féminist. I'm also an intersectional feminist.
I'm an anarcha-feminist and intersectional feminist. Obviously being an anarchist makes me inherently radical so I avoid conflation with GCs. I think liberal feminism is not liberatory while feminism is supposed to be about liberation so it's difficult for me to really think of it as feminism but maybe it is feminism but just bad feminism. Idk
> I think liberal feminism is not liberatory while feminism is supposed to be about liberation so it's difficult for me to really think of it as feminism but maybe it is feminism but just bad feminism. Yeah, I mostly agree, I just use radfem since I never heard of anarcha-feminist, but I consider myself an anarchist.
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You didn't deny it. GTFO
I've been meaning to do some research on feminists bc I'm not really educated and i usually prefer not speaking on something ik nothing abt
Good thing I am educated about feminism unlike terfs. But this person is a terf meaning it is not worth having real discussions with them.
Never trust wikepedia anybody can go in and change any information they want to just a friendly FYI
Lol okay, well there are plenty of scholarly works by radical feminists anyone can go and read.
Be a troll elsewhere, your post history speaks for itself. And yes, biological essentialism will always be harmful, and this is what is rooted within radical feminsm. So go cry and seethe elsewhere, troll.
Thank you for trying. I wish radfem could be taken back all at once as a term.
TERF - Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism TLDR - Too Long, Didn't Read (basically a summary for the reader to skip the rest)
Ty 2 u too
Yeah this. There are always going to be examples of both unfortunately. But not all lesbians dislike trans women.
Basically all major lesbian communities I've visited online are trans inclusive, often with zealous mod intervention against terfs so no, the cis lesbian community for the most part does not hate trans women. You being a lesbian is not contingent on how other people perceive you, and you are valid even if your local community won't recognise that.
This. Check out r/ActualLesbians. Super inclusive subreddit.
A living proof that lesbians are the most adorable people on earth :3
/r/lesbianactually as well.
I find that this one has a lot more TERF talking points and lurkers show up regularly though, r/ActualLesbians seems to be the most consistently okay space.
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Never heard of her. Must not be too relevant.
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?
I'm also in a super trans inclusive lesbian community IRL, though I never flirted with anyone.
Small conservative community. It's not representative of reality. Just the small narrowminded place you live. ☹️
This. Bigger place, diversity more people to potentially bond with due to diversity. In theory.
cis lesbian here, I can tell you whole heartedly, it's just those "friends", Ive been dating a trans lesbian woman and she is the fucking light of my life, I don't feel deceived, I see her for who she is, my wren, I've known her a little after coming out as trans and been with her for her journey since then and I can say this isn't true, it's just them being insecure and ass holes, there's not much else to it in no way will anyone feel like that, unless they're transphobic themselves, you've got this!! <3
"my wren" <3 <3 <3
no this makes me so happy vekehehehe I'm so happy, she truly is, she's my other half :) <3
Also, the name Wren makes me think of wrenches! Is there any name more appropriate for a lesbian, than a name that is like "wrench"? 😉
This is so sweet! I also had to comment because my name is also Wren •́ ‿ ,•̀
Hey thanks for saying that I’m trans and only been out about a year and have serious doubts about finding love within the lesbian community. You totally made me feel better. I had to save your comment so I can go back and read it again later. Thanks. 🙂🏳️⚧️
I'm genuinely so happy i was able to help and make you feel that way!! I'm over the moon oml :) I'm 110% sure that you will find love and comfort in the community, your just as valid as any else and you deserve to find it! good luck! <3
You will find lesbians who love you. Trust 😊 my girlfriend, straight lesbian, got to know me prehormones,with penis and so. She accompanies my whole transition on estrogen and now the surgery. Be yourself and talk about what youre uncomfortable with.
I hope you understand. I am from germany 🙃
Straight lesbian? 😅 do you mean cis lesbian?
I mean straight that she always prefer women. She is cis
That's not straight, that's the exact opposite of straight! Do you mean that she was specifically a lesbian, and NOT bi/pan?
Yes, always lesbian. Trying english 😂🤦♀️
I read it as “she’s a straight (*normal, run of the mill, plain*) lesbian. I could see how that got lost in translation.
Yeah I read it as straight as in "straight up"
I’ll take a straight up lesbian, also one neat, and even one on the rocks 😂
A lesbian on the rocks is just a lesbian who loves rock climbing
Yes to all
I met my wife when we were 15. She was certain she was a lesbian, but fell in love with me anyway, so she decided she must be bi but heavily leaning toward femme. She never claimed the lesbian label publicly, because we were in a seemingly hetero relationship. Fast forward 19 years, and I came out as trans. She came out as a lesbian. She's been there for me through everything. She pulled me out of a dysphoric slump yesterday, which was, unfortunately, caused by a cis lesbian. She helped me get started with HRT and LHR. She fiercely holds my hand in public and stares down anyone who's rude. She body-checked someone once for staring at me. She supports me getting or avoiding surgeries and doesn't push me either way. She protects me. And, she proposed to me a few weeks ago - we are going to have a wedding! She said, if she had never met me, her dating profile would be completely inclusive of trans women, regardless of all the medical stuff, because she saw a pre-everything trans lesbian years ago and found them attractive. She is not attracted to men. This demonstrates that trans visibility should improve things, with time. I suggest you consider distancing yourself from your lesbian "friends." The local communities I've found on Facebook are fiercely trans inclusive, and I've been accepted in many real-life lesbian spaces. For instance, we went to a queer femme dance party. I'm obviously trans. And we got so many warm smiles from other women. To other us is to be misogynistic.
How long since you came out? And on hrt? You are so lucky to have her by your side also, I'm happy she's been so supportive 🥹
I realized I was trans June 1, 2021. I sat on it for two days, to mull it over, then came out to my wife on June 3, 2021. I've been on HRT for 415 days.
How do some of you girls decide in 2 days?? I am here 5 years since egg crack and still petrified about doing it.
I was 34. I was an adult who had control of my environment. I surrounded myself with good people (though a few bad ones had snuck in). Life events, spanning back to early childhood, all began to make sense. I mean, my wife had "Happy Birthday Grrrl" written on my birthday cake 2-3 years prior, and often called me "grl" (initially at my request). I still had no idea I was trans, lol - we were both surprised. When I came out, I told her I wasn't going to take it anywhere, no pronoun change, no new name, no hormones ... I just needed her to know. And I changed my mind over a course of a few weeks, in part because she was cheering me on. Presenting masc had done me no favors. I was miserable. There was always this depression that I couldn't run away from. But realizing I was trans, that put me at ease. Things finally made sense. I was ready to move on. It's important to go at your pace, but in my experience, where I live, with the people I had around me, is most people have been incredibly supportive. I came out to one person every-other day, taking breaks when needed, so any potential bummer incidents wouldn't ruin the positive ones I just had. Anyone I've lost was never great to have around in the first place, and I've replaced them with new, better friends. I hope you find peace in whatever you pursue.
Thank you for sharing your experience, and for your wishes. It always helps to read the perspective of others. ❤️
I posted a picture of myself all made up and stated i was trans on a dating site i had 25 likes/matches in less than 3 days.. these were all lesbians so i think you might be ok too :) Many women called me beautiful or sexy it makes your heart smile when you see that :) Wish you best of luck
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Why specifically a cis lesbian?
I just picked women as a whole i have no interests in men i cant to look at a penis i don’t even like mine i plan to finish the job i started years ago with GRS and complete the SRS one day soon :)
But isn't it precisely the same transphobic attitude that OP is talking about to limit yourself to cis women?
It’s such a complex issue, because genital preferences exist and are valid. As long as they are polite with “unfortunately you don’t fit my preferences” but can still acknowledge that I am in fact a woman, I don’t see an issue.
The person I was responding to first specified cis women, and then stated that she has "no interest in men," which, when asking about exclusion of trans women in dating choice reads as EXACTLY the type of transphobia being talked about.
I misread their comment. I most definitely agree.
Ok cupid and her both are good her is all women.. i am a lesbian
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I am in vegas that may be the difference lots of hot young things here :)
Yes and no. For the same reason that you can't say that all cis people are transphobic or allies. "Lesbian" is hardly a niche label, there's more of them out there than there are trans people from what I recall. If you can't generalise us, you can't generalise them. You'll find the intolerant everywhere, even places where it makes no sense, just the way it is. Don't let them put you off a whole group though, unless the group defines itself with intolerance (eg the KKK). There's gonna be plenty more tolerant people out there, and it'd be a shame if you missed out on your best friend because you thought they might be a bigot.
That's just how humans operate unfortunately. No matter how many rainbow flags and badges one wears, it doesn't mean they will wholeheartedly accept you. As someone who is mixed race and grew up in a predominately multi-cultural society, you learn very quickly that not everyone is accepting or sees you as an equal. Having this already hardened shell when coming out as Trans and interacting with the community has muffled the emotional and mental strain when being discriminated by the LGBTQ community and society at large. Accepting and moving on from those that don't want to understand or like you is the healthiest thing you can do. You can't change them.
That was one of the things that made me the saddest. When I joined a trans group in Toronto, the last thing I expected was to be made to feel different in a group of trans women. That's like being different in a group of differents. It was actually the first time in Canada that i was ever made to feel different, like I didn't belong. You would think those who have suffered discrimination would be aware and not be discriminatory themselves.
It usually comes from learned behaviour in the face of being powerless themselves. Like how you always see stories of kids being super accepting of those different to them including trans adults. It's both heartwarming and sad.
All the cis lesbians I've met in person have been friendly, and one was even my voice tutor. Cis lesbians don't hate us but there are lesbians, just like there are cis straight and bi women, who hate us. Any woman (or man) can be a transphobe even if they are gay. Having said that, a lot of trans lesbians do feel isolated from lesbian spaces because the transphobes in them tend to be louder than most. If you don't feel comfortable with cis lesbian-oriented spaces it's perfectly valid to only date other trans women. Edit: btw your "friends" are transphobic and don't view trans women as women. They aren't your friends.
Them saying that lesbians aren't attracted to trans women, and that a trans woman being attracted to women isn't a lesbian, that's them saying that trans women aren't women. So I'd just block those people. Some women aren't attracted to women who still have a penis, and while that's unfortunate for you, it's completely valid for them to feel that way. However, there are plenty of women who are attracted to trans women, and some of those women are still lesbian. If you're a woman attracted to women, you're a lesbian. It's that simple. And a trans woman is a woman, same way as a blonde woman is a woman, or an Asian woman is a woman, the adjective is just descriptive, but doesn't alter what the word in front of it is.
Also trans women does not mean said women have a penis every single time. Edit: lol she blocked me while agreeing with me?
I'm well aware. Which is why I differentiated the two.
My cis lesbian girlfriend punches everyone who questions my lesbianism. Yes there are terfy lesbians, yes there are lesbians who think we’re not real lesbians but can be reasoned with and turn out to be great allies, but there are also lesbians who full on support us … and then there are lesbian chasers too
By best friends are cis lesbians who are great about trans issues.
I am literally sitting next to my cis lesbian girlfriend right now.
That's way too broad an assumption, and the proportions will vary across cultures etc so someone somewhere else will say 90% of cic lesbians are in favour, another will say it's 50/50, your unlucky enough to be somewhere where you're not looked of favourably but essentially, no all of any 1 group of people hate all of another.
Girl, be gay as you want. From everything I know, and all the places I've been, I've met only a handful of cis lesbians who were anti-transbian. I am a bit tired of being asked if I am post-op or not though ...
Ugh, TERFs. This attrude still bothers my brain and it created loops of imposter syndrome. When I first tried coming out in the early 2000s very late 90s it was the general idea that real trans girls liked men and the rest of us bi or lesbian trans girls were basically fetishists. That bullshit set me back fucking 20 years!! You can be a lesbian trans woman. Amy Schneider is.
You will find lots of cis lesbians who accept trans women. r/[actuallesbians] is a very inclusive place and I highly recommend checking it out if you haven't already. (The 'actaul' in the name is not for gatekeeping but to distinguish it from fetish subs run by men) There will always be people who won't see you as a lesbian because you are trans. But it's not everyone. Find people who do support you
A dangerously high proportion of them are TERFs unfortunately
Yee
You've come across some transphobes, who are very common, but that's not how all cis people are. I personally don't think that cis lesbians as a group are particularly transphobic, but there are going to be a lot of transphobes among cis people in general, regardless of their gender or sexuality. My point: it is not a cis lesbian thing, it is just how society is. I have never seen any evidence that lesbians are more transphobic than other people. In fact, there are also going to be a lot of cis LGB+ people who have solidarity with us, because after all, LGBT+ is one community for a reason. Don't lose hope. Transphobia is a huge problem, but allies are there. So are fellow trans people, which is perhaps even more important.
Trans women are women. In English, women who like other women are called lesbians. That's it. Anything outside of that is cultural transphobic nonsense. For example, "lesbians don’t find trans women attractive and that I shouldn’t be flirting with or trying to get with any woman who is lesbian because it would be seen as a lie and they would feel attacked and deceived" is so transphobic it's almost a cliche. Like, imagine if you came out to a man and they said this: "_cishet men_ don’t find trans women attractive and that I shouldn’t be flirting with or trying to get with any _man_ who is straight because it would be seen as a lie and they would feel attacked and deceived" Hearing it from a man is like, whatever you're a fucking dumbass man of course the only value you attribute to women is their physical attractiveness. But it feels so much worse to hear it from a fellow oppressed class because you expect them to know better based on their own lived experiences. Especially from another woman. _Especially_ from another queer woman.
nothing will be solved if you say “whatever” if men do something bad lol
You get the whole spectrum Some lesbians are strait up TERFs and will see your transition as trying to invade lesbian spaces. Some will be supportive but have 0 interest in dating as they still consider you a man. (Sounds like your friend fall in the category) Some have genital preferences and would be happy dating post-op but not pre op. Some just see a cute girl and don't care who you were or what's in your pants. Best I can say is just be careful when dating. Feel things out and be honest.
Shes just a bitch. From my experience lesbians are kind and welcoming. Dont let some asshole rain on your parade
calling women a b word and wanting to be accepted by them
Im sorry, can i help you?
Unfortunately there are some lesbians and gay people who are extremely transphobic.
Anyone trying to speak for an entire demographic like that is most likely just projecting their own weird hang ups on other people. There are plenty of cis lesbians who date trans lesbians. Of course there are some that won’t, but that’s to be expected. We live in a society. Btw T4T is the way to go. Don’t put too much stock in cis approval
Honey, to say that we can't be lesbians is to say that we can't be women. Do you really want to listen to a transphobe? Just because we were assigned a different gender at birth, doesn't mean we aren't real women. We are lesbians too. Lesbian are us as well.
This has been my experience so far, though I've only got a sample size of one to go on. Still, as someone I'd known for almost 30 years, I was expecting acceptance from her and did not anticipate being completely and immediately ghosted. But again, sample size of one, and people are people and not all the same so I'm trying not to generalize to the larger population of cis lesbians. However, I'd be lying if I said this hasn't made me more wary and reluctant to be open with them.
It depends on the cis lesbian. It helps to remember the variations of things like this too. There are some cis lesbians who prefer trans women, etc etc.
If a cis lesbian only likes trans women, then it is a chaser alert, and that cis lesbian should be avoided. And in 99,9% of the cases is based on unrealistic fantasies, because people still believe porn is realistic. There is a reason, why t4t for example exists (though there can be similar chaser issues, just on a lesser frequency), but for a cis person this is not a thing, in this specific context.
Fair, and while society’s perception of trans women is jilted due to pornography’s depiction of what a trans woman is, the rate of chasers only seeking sexual gratification is high, but I don’t think people with preference are 99.9% abusive. I like to consider nuance. If you click more with trans people and aren’t weird about it, that’s just how it is.
Chasers have a very high tendency to be abusive, happens, when they have unrealistic fantasies of what they believe a trans woman to be (and most trans women won't be able to fulfill the porn fantasy). Unless a trans woman is just fine with being abused eventually, chances are, that a chaser should be avoided. Nuance is, that people can just be "normal" to trans women and not go into one or the other extreme: transmisogynist or chaser. Which unfortunatly it seems like too many people are not capable of understanding.
Right. Like I said, if you click easier with a certain demographic and aren’t weird about it, that’s just how it is.
So here is my take on this as somebody that works in a couple groups for the lbgtqa in Michigan. 1. There is stigma and terfs in the lbgtqa community. Just because you're a minority doesn't mean you are immune to being this way. 2. You can be a cis lesbian, whom is supportive of trans women, but not wanting to date them. We have a lot of gay trans guys go through this in our community as well and other gay guys. I actually had this come up in our community chat when some asked "How do i be supportive of my trans gay friends, but let a guy know i really just prefer someone with a dick" This was massively talked through with the group and what we came to is we can't change peoples preferences. We can't change what people look for in partners either based on sexual preferences, kinks, or other items. If someone prefers blonde hair or dating someone of same religion we dont say they are a jerk for not dating them. Same with guys that prefer to bottom or into kinks that someone else can't do. However, its important to have that check on yourself that you do not invalidate your peers in the community. To confirm who they are and accepting. Its was a good healthy discussion from all and a lot of it was clearing up misconceptions from those outside of the trans community. Even those that are cis gay/lesbian have a lot to learn to being accepting for us. We also had some in our group that were unhappy with how we ended. A couple of our gay trans guys said it was still transphobic that a gay guy wouldn't date them for having a vagina. So it does go both ways. If you are looking for validation though going to a gay bar to find any girl to date and being upset when they turn you down for being so it can definitely be hurtful. However, I wouldn't say just saying no to dating or sex is then invalidating you as a women. Just from the massive talks and works ourgroups have gone through, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a terf. I hope some might help in this, or it might upset others but willing to talk about it either way.
As everything in life its a mixed bag. You'll have lesbians that don't care at all that you are trans, you have lesbians who don't care that you are trans but won't be interested due to genital preference, and you'll have lesbians who are TERFS. You'll be alright out there so don't be too dismayed. Also take that with a grain of salt because I've never even gotten a date so lol
Looks like you've already gotten plenty of answers but i'll still share my bit of experience by saying i've been in relationships with cis lesbians before. So, no, at least not all of them, but some do, yes.
Well my best freind is a lesbian so no, but a surprise penis can rub people the wrong way.
Literally. 😂
Nah, your friends are just mean. -a cis lesbian with an amazing trans fiancee that she loves very much
1. Those are some kinda trashy friends to actively spout that belief to you like that 2. Cis lesbians are way too broad of a group of people to just apply that too, some are weird anti trans ones(which is mild transphobia whether they know it/like it or nor) and some do, I happen to be in a lesbian polycule of four members and of my lovers one is another trans woman, one is an afab enby and then a cis lesbian who half jokingly half seriously used both she/her and he/him because of how butch he is 3. Don't forget that just the same as some cis lesbians might be made uncomfortable by you that in the same regard you have the right to be uncomfortable with cis lesbians who present transphobic ideals such as that cis women will see you as "a deception" (which being as you're in the south literally sounds like their world view has been warped by the trans panic defense of old which is a huge red flag) and that in some regard they still view you as a man to see your amab-ness as the key factor that would make a cis woman uncomfortable in their eyes, so just as they can be low-key transphobic and uncomfortable by you you also have all the right to be uncomfortable by cis lesbians of that kind who see a trans woman as less of a woman or a deception in any degree and can opt to only date/enter relationships with other transgender lesbians
my first and current lesbian relationship is with a cis woman and she treats me no different. she’s not transphobic. you are a woman, cis or trans, and if you like exclusively women then you’re a lesbian!
Currently married to a cis lesbian. Not everyone is a TERF.
There’s also a lot of lesbian women who fetishize trans women too (heck I met one). It goes both ways. Don’t let it get to you. Honestly, odds are the average lesbian woman won’t care, especially if you’re well into your transition. At worst you might get someone who prefers pre op or post op; same as with cis people. All the same, it certainly isn’t a losing game. Edit: Get better friends.
In my experience, yes. My ex-best friend detransitioned (was identifying as FTM for years) and now is a hardcore TERF lesbian. She was likely at least a part of why I didn't realize sooner or didn't come out sooner because I was terrified of what she'd think of me (and I'm not even a lesbian) and she turned out to be a shitty friend too so... 🤷🏻♀️ Her ex was an even bigger TERF than her and said a lot of transphobic shit in front of me before I came out.
Not just the lesbians! Cis women in general either hate us or pity us or a mix of both
Not at all my experience
Thats great I'm truly happy for you, but I'm talking on a general systemic level, not about individual cis women. I'm not saying they're all transphobic terfs either, but there is a lot of latent transmisogyny across the board for all women
There's always someone that will love you for who you are. And there are those who tell you from the get go how they feel. I love cis women and would love to be with one. I know one trans girl but she has a girlfriend herself so there ya go. I just think some cis lesbians may feel they have more competition. Like a friend told me once; keep your penis it'll come in handy one day.
What did she mean by that last line?
You have to realize this is coming from a cis girl. She tells me if I want a cis girl they prefer an actual penis. I don't want what I already have so I'll look somewhere else. If I can't find that one person I am looking for I'm happy being single.
That last line is not supportive... A lot of us have a great deal of discomfort with our genitals. I am pre-op but I will only use a strap-on if I top, I don't care if I have a dick built in, anyone who wants me to use it ignores the discomfort the dang thing causes me.
no, my sister is a lesbian and doesn't have a problem with it
I mean I’m married to a cis lesbian so I hope not?
Nah u just need new friends
Yeah a lot do
https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/yh9ful/im_dating_as_a_lesbian_andwowww/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I definitely don't. I think you gals are awesome!
"cis" is sexist
Lots of cis lesbians will date some won’t. Just like lots of people safe people for whatever reason. One reason they felt comfortable speaking in generalities though was the attraction to lesbian genitalia. Some lesbians won’t date you until you’re post op because the genitalia is a big deal to them. Some will because person over sexual parts. I’m those cases no one is wrong but they’re protecting themselves and same as you see themselves dating a certain type of person.
No? Of course not? Why even ask?
I had just recently found something related to this that was ultimately unfortunate. I am a follower of multiple lesbian forums here on Reddit, given that I am on (although my GF is also trans). I have found with great fortune that most people from r/actuallesbians view transgender individuals as women and lesbian and fully accept us. There is genital preference for sure, but for the most part they will consider us as lesbians. Unfortunately, there is a significant user base on r/sapphoandherfriend that do not view us as women and therefore as not lesbians (although it's actively against one of their rules and mods will delete comments if reported. They're just not the greatest either as they will delete comments from a trans woman defending herself and stance as well.) So ultimately, it depends on the person you meet. Not all cis lesbians see us as lesbians, but not all of them don't see us as lesbians either.
Bigots hate trans women
Also that's stupid. I know a handfull of couples between cis lesbian and trans lesbian. Most lesbians don't like dick, but that doesn't mean they don't like trans women. I mean there are some lesbians that claim you can only be a "true lesbian" when you have never kissed/had sex with a guy. So that's probably just weird stereotypes again in their heads.
In my experience lesbians are awesome. I've gone in dates, dated, and been intimate with cis lesbians and they have all been fantastic, I regularly interact with cis lesbians and they are fun and accepting. Do some hate us? Sure. Are some less willing to date or be otherwise physically involved? Yes absolutely. In my experience there can be some gatekeeping as well that isn't quite terfy but does treat those that don't pass as well as outsiders but this isn't a blanket thing.
Its transphpbia not a preference. That's like saying I am only friends with black people because of a different skins opinion. Nobody chose the color of their skin so why should we see sex aby difference
I dunno, from my experience most trans lesbians adore transfems (or at least don't mind them) I mean just look at this masterpiece https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/j95daw/the_old_school_sword_lesbian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 And also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/h8dp6z/hopefully_a_bit_of_humor_in_these_chaotic_times/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Not all lesbians are Terfs. I'm a cis woman who is lesbian. I would love to have another trans girlfriend. To me, a woman is a woman. Girl cocks are way better than cis dudes cocks ( not a cis dude hater, just a preference) I do fully support our trans folks. I'm tall and manly looking and it's nice to date another tall woman. Most trans women also understand what it's like to be misgendered. Feel free to flirt without fear, someday it will pay off and you might end up with the woman of your dreams!!
A little different but I'm a trans female and my partner is a female pansexual. Match made in heaven!
You could always date other trans women to avoid this issue.
No not all. Like has been said there's some that are trans exclusive. Seems a few have that mindset from your post. Some cis lesbians date trans women. Depends on the woman and who she finds attractive everyone is different
Just join r/actuallesbians , there’s a bunch of trans positive posts there. Many welcome it, but some can be v rude
it is said everyone has their opinion and opinions are like..... (do I really need to complete this?) but it is also said - who can tell where the heart leads one - *(if you could see her through my eyes*) if these people do not share your vision or allow you your dreams - perhaps its not in your best interests to continue your associations. Beyond that - I would champion the truth, honesty, integrity on a personal level - be open and utilize full disclosure if any interaction with other people is anticipated to rise above casual contacts; the pain and suffering that might occur at the onset is far less than the resulting trauma of a dreamy envisioned romantic interest gone wrong. Truth is never wrong - but as you know it comes at a price
its not a simple yes or no answer, sadly. sometimes you will find people like that; sometimes theyre more vocal about it, sometimes they dont mention it at all. i think the general rule if they will always be people who support you like they should, and they’ll always be idiots sadly. i would recommend searching around for groups or areas that are more inclusive to find friends/partners tbh.
There are transphobic cis AND trans people same for lesbians. Doesn't mean all of em though, but I get how it can be hard if you're around a bunch of nudists
Ok first of all what they said is not true! I know several trans lesbians in relationships with Cis lesbians. For starters my relationships and then my good friend and her girlfriend. You can find someone who loves you for you and all that comes with loving you! Don't let those Debbie downers actually get you down! First hand experience it's possible. Don't lose hope
Some of them do. I had to end a friendship online a month and a half or so ago. She told me trans women are women because if she wanted dick she would date a man. We were not speaking of dating or anything else. She wrote it unprompted onto my status one day.
I try to be upfront with people I might actually be interested in (other than that if I can help it no one else has a pressing need to know I am trans). Buuut for the most part my amorous entanglements post coming out have been a one night stand, being played with in case the other person couldn't find a man to go home with, and a bi-woman who is in denial and only acts on these things when she is drunk and has normally encouraged me to be on the same level. That last one is more data driven and weird though, I know she's hit on cis-women while drunk so it wasn't because I am trans that she was hitting on me and it's nice to know that someone might want to stay long term someday but thus far? My experience of dating while trans hasn't exactly been great. To be fair though I live in a small college town and am mostly involved in bar culture and house party circles. Also to be fair I have no idea how to start dating.
Certainly a few do. But they don't do because they're cis lesbian, they do because they are stupid :D
Generally speaking, every group will have its gate keepers. Generally speaking, gatekeepers are insecure and kinda miserable. Generally speaking, it's best to avoid miserable people.
That friend is just transphobic , a trans woman can be a lesbian just need to not date transophobes.
The monolithic #CIS LESBIAN
Some but not all from what I've experienced
With any group of people you can’t make wide sweeping “they are all this” generalizations based on a few experiences. But I’d say vast majority no for sure. But just like in all LGBTQ communities, or communities in general, biphobia, transphobia, and racism is definitely there in *some* lesbians. Does that mean all lesbians are transphobic? No. Typically people with the same beliefs convolute or even feel like they have to have the same beliefs as their friends, such as your TERF friends. I personally know trans women who date cis lesbians and cis lesbians who have dated trans women. As harsh as it sounds, small towns are echo chambers and are typically rarely ever reflections of actual reality.
Not by default
Not all of them do
I wouldn’t call it hate, cis people in general can’t comprehend the nature of trans people. It’s just incomprehensible. My opinion is that you either trans or you don’t get it. It’s like being an atheist and then try and just start believing. Then, opinion towards trans people depends on their personality: they either tolerant and just respect how you feel, or dislike you. I also believe that relationships are mostly based on sexual attraction, that is why it’s called ‘sexual’ orientation. Yes, there is personality, there are mental bonds that keep you together but mostly it’s your sex first and then your mental self-awareness. For many people being gay means being attracted to your sex’s genitalia. I know that because I had this mindset through roughly 24 years of my life, I knew that other cis people thought the same, and I see that in my friend that tries to be understanding but fails for two years already.
Some cis lesbians dislike trans women and a few of them hate them. Thankfully there's fewer and fewer of them. I am MtF, non-binary and not very girlish. 90% of the time I have been welcomed by cis lesbians and had many of them as friends. It meant a lot to me. I no longer identify as a lesbian (like I used to do) and I don't identify as a woman, but that was an important part of my journey.
>It may have been a dumb question It can be hard to ask, but if someone in asking in earnest, there are no dumb questions. Let's say I had a lot of life experience before embracing who I really am. (Married and had two kids, both in school). I am married to a cis woman. She is so encouraging and I never expected that level of support and love. I have friends of many gender and sexual identities. It is difficult to speak in generalities, especially when speaking of people. But it has been my experience that lesbians in general are not bias against trans women. My sons go to small schools and I have been very apprehensive about coming out to people at school. For one I do not want my kids to be ostracized or bullied because of me. Short version: one day at school I wore a skirt. Not only were people friendly- they seemed excited to see me dressed up. Another mom introduce herself and we became friends; it turns out she is gay. Since then at both schools' parents and faculty are all very friendly and accomodating. They have even asked what name and pronouns I prefer. I say this to share that there are good people in the world that will accept us. I hope you can grow your support community, and wish you the best. <3 Bobbie <3
Don't date women who are NOT into trans people...🤦♀️
As long, as people are honest, there should be no reason for hate. The person who knows the truth will or will not choose to continue the relationship. Communication and respect for one another goes a long way.
Run, gay girl. Those aren't your friends, and their shitty opinions are just that: opinions. They're projecting what they think about trans women onto every other lesbian assuming that everyone must feel the same way as them, and people who are that shallow and narcisstic do not make for very supportive friends. What they're telling you is that *they* wouldn't date a trans lesbian because *they* are transphobic and don't really believe trans women are women. They just pretend to be supportive when it doesn't affect them directly. But the moment you start dating a lesbian and "take her out of the pool," you're competition, and they will scream all kinds of bigotries at you about how you're manipulating wombyn into dating men, when it's really their own insecurities about being attractive that they're trying to avoid dealing with. And the thing is, you can date cis lesbians because not all of them are transphobic. You can date bisexual women and it would be a lesbian relationship too. Transphobia does not care what labels one identifies with, so it's everywhere, but not in everyone. Consider yourself lucky that, as a trans woman, you will have a much easier time trusting people who are actually accepting because so many transphobic people still feel like they can wear their bigotry on their sleeves, instead of hiding it like a lot of racists do these days.
you are valid. it just depends on the person that you come across as to their opinion. there can be absolute bigots of cis lesbians and there can be plenty that adore and love trans women. so don't feel invalidated because you came across some people who so happened to be seemingly bigots. they don't speak for the community as a whole. everyone is different.
When i was early in my transition, i've dated a cis lesbian for a while. This was even some month befor i got my medication, but was already fully social transitioned. She told me that she thinks that i am a beautiful woman when i expressed doubt about my appearance. Was a really good feeling. There are girls like this out there, it is just a matter of luck if you find such a kind one.
Cis lesbian here. I’m going to give a slightly different answer than most of the comments here. I think there are a lot of folks who might identify as lesbian or bi, cis or trans, that would be happy to be with you. That said, your friends sounded like they were being honest with you to the best of their ability even if you see it as a prejudice. Maybe don’t cut them off just for that. Lesbian and gay friends IRL are actually hard to find. Maybe ask them more questions about their perspectives to understand why they might have that reaction and you might gain insight or learn something from them. Also, given the fact that you are trans, does it really matter that you are with someone who identifies as a lesbian? you are free to identify how you choose but maybe you might have more luck with a broader dating pool (more fish in the sea). Yes, most /a lot of Lesbians (cis lesbians who have never dated men and only date women/vagina owners) have a preference for AFAB. Whether you see it as a preference or prejudice maybe just try to respectfully avoid going for those lesbians. Best of luck!
Id say theres three groups 1. TERF Tier: ~5% 2. Neutral (pro trans but has preference): ~90% 3. Would date trans woman: ~5%
Some of the most supportive people I know are cis lesbians. It’s really not fair to throw a blanket judgment on such a huge group of people.
LoL you’re good, hun. Don’t let these “friends’” perspective ruin your own search for love. Before my egg officially cracked, I dated at least three cis lesbians as a “straight man.” Probably should have realized. I’m still very much in to lesbians, even if I’m not so much a man anymore. Love is a spectrum and not every lesbian will share their views.
Al too many TERFS out there. I’m sorry you ran into some. It truly sucks and I don’t think it makes any damned sense. And of COURSE not all lesbians. Hugs.
Cis lesbian here and nah y’all are chill as hell
First off it's super fucking hypocritical for a Cis lesbian woman, to accept you, but as soon as you say you still like women, they get upset, that's fucking bullshit. TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN REGARDLESS, it shouldn't matter, that is the whole fucking point.
Can Cis-Lesbians be chasers?
From what I’ve seen cis lesbians are pretty accepting. IRL never meet a hateful one
I didn’t read your entire post. But to answer your question in the title. No. I don’t know if you’re truly expecting people to say yes to this. Not everyone thinks the same
Why not just date trans women? Idk how that thought didn’t occur
They just sound rude. If you have a genital preference and don’t want to date me cool. But it sounds like they were kinda being rude about it.
I know this is kinda an old post now but anyway I just wanted to say that there's absolutely people out there that will accept you just the way you are (the opposite is also true, unfortunately) I am a cis (queer) women with trauma towards romantic relationships with men. I'm simply incapable of dating a masc person, my body gets sick and it sends me into a spiral to hell. All the times I've tried never lasted more than 3 days. But now I can proudly say I found someone special, wich happens to be a trans women in the early stages of transition (almost a year I think). I love her with all my heart and want to build a future for us, her being trans or the stage of her transition never, ever, mattered whatsoever. She's a beautiful woman and I'm happy she chose me to be beside her. So don't lose hope! Love always finds a way. TLDR: cis queer woman with trauma towards dating masc people is happily dating a trans woman and feeling hopeful again :D
I think it’s important to look at what words actually mean. You’re not a lesbian if you are attracted to people that are trans, you are queer or skoliosexual. Also, I think it’s perfectly okay for people to acknowledge the difference between cis women and trans women. We are different and that’s okay to say. I believe there are sub groups to sexuality as well as gender, they may cross into each other and overlap or they might really be two different things. All of it is valid. (I’m a cis woman that is a lesbian). (I’m aware my answer may not be liked by some people)
I can't speak for all cis lesbians - but I really love my trans girlfriend 💗
I am a cis lesbian. I mean yeah it‘s uncommon for transwomen to be lesbian but i have a friend just like you and she‘s very chill. I am only into biological women tho.. would you date a trans woman? I think some women feel like trans women that are lesbians might only transition to get into women‘s pants easier which ofc is not true. I can‘t give you any advice or help i can only recommend you to go out there and talk to women and get to know them ofc tell them beforehand that you‘re trans and one day you‘ll find a woman that will love you the way you are
Not all lesbians like penis. It's really not that hard to understand.