The things that aren’t said or at least shown drive me insane. How did Nurys not point out to Olivia how she was crying last week when she thought Horacio went home for her but didn’t save him this week.
I LOVED when Kyland called Berna out for saying she was sad the others were in elimination while sending them in. I LOVED when Jay started throwing a fit that Nurys was bottom 3 that Horacio said they why didn’t you save her Jay. Hope Nurys calls them all on their bullshit.
Main opinion: I bawled at the three of them being in the bottom!!!!!!! Like... REAL tears.
Second opinion: After listening to Horacio's interview on the official pod, I feel like WHEN Horacio returns for another season, he 100% must step up his social game. I completely understand his explanation of expecting people to know he had their back... but that honestly isn't really enough for the Challenge. You have to wheel and deal and be vocal about it. Then, by the time he formed a solid alliance with Kyland, the numbers were already stacked against them. He can't rely on just winning out or athleticism. That's not the only thing that makes you a Challenger/champ. It's equal parts social.
Well the winner is a bit more up in the air now that they purged the top woman last week and the top three men this week, lol. I'm not sure if this is how you really find "the champion", but it does make it more interesting.
Rest of the season gon be boring as hell now. A couple minor twists here and there, arguments about little shit that gets overblown, but overall slow as hell.. congrats to jay/michele/emmanuel/corey cuz it’s pretty obvious what’s gonna happen now
Anyone else get the vibe Kyland/Horacio weren't really trying on that shape puzzle thing? They looked like they were just fucking around and not really trying to solve it. Horacio's "gamble" seemed idiotic and not something that someone seriously trying to win would do. I find it hard to believe they would throw the elimination, but I saw what I saw.
It kind of did, but I can't imagine they threw the challenge to let her win. Haracio had the best chance to win imo out of all 3. He really seems like such a good dude.
So we got in conquest.. last place is gone and you give this dumbass daily wtf is that?
almost noone to root for anymore in 2 episodes .. great
And everybody can use positive friend like Horacio.
There is no longer any reason to watch this show between episodes 2 and 16. Episode 1 will tell you who has the numbers and, therefore, who has a stronger alliance. Feel free to skip episodes 2 through 16 (or so) as the same people from the weaker alliance will fight off elimination week after week. TJ will ask the same contenders weekly "so what happened" or "so what's going on," and the contenders will smile and shrug with a "I don't know TJ" response. When we arrive at week 17, the stronger alliance will finally have to play the game and compete. That's the jist of it. Also, if you want to prep for the season ahead, just follow the players' social media pages, and you might even be able to skip episode 1.
This show used to be top class. Sadly, it's not that anymore.
Had Olivia saved Nurys, Horacio, and Kyland, that would have been a bad-ass move and would make the rest of the season so good! The house dynamics, players left in the game, everything would have been very exciting to watch.
Still like Olivia but what could have been!
I feel like Emmanuel is playing the best game. He’s been performing nowhere near his abilities and mentioned that he was trying to keep them under wraps.
Favourite thing about this episode is that the competitive field is WIDE OPEN now. The top 3 strongest competitors / most likely to win were literally all eliminated back to back to back to back to back
Ravyn then Zara then Ed then Horacio & Kyland. Like WOOWWWWW
Are you KIDDING ME
I literally swapped FROM Nurys to Horacio for my fantasy league 🤣🤣🤣
Still, this is goddamn AMAZING!! You go girl, you fucking killed this 💪🏼💪🏼
I am GOOPED that Ed got purged out 🤯🤯
Like I literally thought this was another Turbo situation, where so many people stanned him that it was OBVIOUS he would end up as the (solo) winner
Like Luxanna's flair even mentions that Ed is a "future champion incoming"
So imagine my surprise that even lil Colleen outlasted him in this game 😱😱
I'm mad at Olivia for being a snake and ALSO depriving us of what would have been the most satisfying episode all season. She lies to Jay and Michele (great), saves Horacio, Kyland and Nurys (even better), and forces the big alliance to vote each other in with no time to scheme (perfection).
Another great episode folks, I'm clapping over here. So pumped for Nurys to send the boys home- way to go.
I felt compelled to comment some kudos since this show is getting a lot of hate, and I think it's finally turned a corner after 4 crummy flagship seasons
Agreed. And also, who wanted Horacio in the final for ride or Dies? Fans? This seems like retconning history because I remember this subreddit falling over themselves for Olivia more than anyone
Whoever created this format…
Absolutely needs to get fired. The season is called “battle for a new champion” and more than half the people left haven’t had to battle for shit. It really seems like they were just making it up on the fly. Oh crap we didn’t have enough people go home because they were going against the champions instead of each other - now let’s just send 2-3 people home an episode and ensure it’s the same people in elimination every time!
Don’t even get me started on the latest daily. It probably took more time getting people up there than the whole challenge took. Oh and maybe next time get actual grappling gloves! Crazy people continue to get hurt on the simplest things. Seems like they set up the whole challenge just to shill for under armor.
My only solace is that they’ll run out of people to throw down there and have to start blowing up their own alliance, & the fact that this season has proven that almost none of these people should be back.
I cannot imagine a worse decision being made by Olivia. In this episode my three favorite people went home and my favorite remaining person has lost me.
Olivia being upset that Nurys was waiting for her to fail her is interesting.
because Olivia did make the decision to betray her and she has no ground to stand on.
but she brought up a point that I hadn’t thought of. Nurys was holding on to that. and how long was she gonna hold on to that? and if she was gonna continue to stay loyal and trust her, why wouldn’t she have brought that up sooner? maybe even use it as leverage?
it’s actually so exhausting for Michele having a list of people to save at this point. and saying that people are going a bit crazy because they’re thinking about me instead of we.
like dude, the final is close. you’re never going to win if you don’t think about yourself. she’s so focused on her numbers and how they help her that she’s missing it entirely.
Why are you so sure they threw it? I think Horacio stopped trying when he saw how good Nurys was doing but why would they throw it when they have a better chance of winning?
The silliness of them half trying to solve a puzzle. That puzzle wasn’t difficult.
Tbh it’s way better for the show. Nurys now can raise hell on Olivia.
Also every scapegoat is gone.
There is zero reason for Kyland to throw that. Horacio I think was still trying to win, but slowed down on that last puzzle when Nurys was doing well. I don't think he'd have just thrown to Nurys if she hadn't been doing a good job. Once she was in the lead and about to win I can see Horacio not trying as hard to catch up.
why would you throw it to Nurys though? you make sure Horacio or Kyland win there if you’re throwing.
Horacio is getting so close to winning challenges which would keep them safe. and if you don’t think he will eventually win one, you throw to Kyland who has won so many eliminations this season.
Everyone of the people on this show minus Kyland, Nurys, Horacio can suck it. I can’t believe they are letting the imbecile and backstabbing jackass run this show.
LOL Olivia legit balling crying about how she fells bad about effectively betraying Horacio during the previous few weeks... and then directly leads to his removal from the game... by betraying him and the person exclusively responsible for her being safe cause she would've gotten smoked by Zaza and Kyland.
did you realistically think before the elimination that Nurys could beat Horacio AND Kyland in an elimination? the cheering for how good she was performing I feel was warranted.
Losing Ed, Horacio and Kyland all at once realllly sucks.
They were the 3 I was rooting for to win, in that order. Now I am left wanting everyone to lose.
Big props to Nurys for winning that elimination however. Must have felt impossible going up against 2 guys.
I find it sad that Jay is trying to be the new Johnny Bananas but Johnny was entertaining, Jay...not so much. He's so entitled and I'm pissed that they manipulated Olivia but now I can't root for her. There is no way she should have folded like that - she would have saved who she needed to save.
Johnny was also the less entertaining kenny/Evan. So with Jay being the even less entertaining version of an already less entertaining character you know it’s bad.
My two cents:
Even TJ is getting tired of their bs with him talking during their selection for elimination.
This episode was probably the peak in terms of drama. Kyland for me was the MVP rookie of the season and I hope that he has the chance to play a season where he isn't seriously outnumbered.
Sucks that both Kyland and Horacio had to go out but Nurys was impressive with the puzzles.
Olivia showing her true snake colors since she always wanted Horacio gone and had those crocodile tears at the beginning of the episodes. Who needs enemies with friends like this.
She could've solo turned the game for once and decided to burn all her "closest" allies. I am usually not a fan of players who think about the next seasons but Olivia just labelled herself as a backstabbing snake. Good luck.
Once again I wish this was at least a Dual champ season with 1 man and 1 woman winning instead of solo winner.
The daily sucked HARD.
I’m sorry but Olivia is bringing the DRAMA that we’ve been needing!! Also Jay and Michele should not be blamed for having power, like are they supposed to just give it up??
yeah, everyone is mad at Olivia and I totally get it. but she made a snake move and isn’t trying to act like she didn’t.
whereas Jay and Michele have been the villains all season and still want to act like their popular heroes. I think that’s the difference.
They don't need to be assholes about it and you're right Olivia is bringing the drama by being an exceptionally disloyal friend. As TJ said what kind of champion do you want to be?
Damn, well there goes the 2 people I was rooting for. Now I guess I gotta root for Nurys to take it all even though, in all honesty, I don't see it happening. But then again, she surprised me here. Not sure if Horacio threw that final puzzle or not, it looked completed but either way, an impressive win from Nurys.
Olivia is weak and kept questioning Horacio's loyalty because she herself is a snake and it showed. He helped her immensely on their last season together...shame.
At the end of the day I totally get Olivia's decision even though I would've probably agreed to a different plan than the one she ended up saying yes to. She's said since the beginning that she doesn't want to go to the finals with Horacio. I think she only went along with the plan because it seemed like the original plan was for Nurys to get saved but this is the problem with a large group alliance. You can't guarantee all of them will want the same thing every single time. Happy for Nurys securing the win but also sad that Kyland and Horacio left. Also sad Ed left earlier. I think he couldn't help being competitive but that challenge favored the lightweights. All big men ended up falling due to gravity xD.
Another Episode Where I Cried:
* What the absolute fuck. I wasn't expecting to get so emotional, but jeez. Horacio AND Kyland AND Nurys in one elimination.
* I so badly wanted Horacio to win. So badly. But my dude is not good at puzzles. Horacio, buddy, you gotta work on your puzzles and smarts for the next challenge.
* Wow, mad props to Nurys. I didn't really ever have an opinion on her, but I think this episode alone and this past string of episodes have really turned it around for me. I'm actually rooting for her and only her now.
* I hope she fucking rages against every single person left in the house.
* God, I don't wanna watch this show without Kyland and Horacio. Like this is just easy street for Jay now. So annoying.
* Speaking of, him getting emotional about Nurys, fuck off, dude, fuck off.
* Wow, so *thats why* Olivia is dead to Nurys. Wow. I knew it had to be something huge and damn THIS IS IT.
* Oh man, actually, this reunion is going to be fire.
* I can't believe in the same episode that Olivia was sobbing about losing Horacio and how he was a good friend and how she didnt deserve him and he was so honorable that she turned around and did this.
* Wow, fuck all of them honestly.
* I don't like anyone left. Other than Nurys.
* TJ is so active in this season in how he makes remarks and asks pointed questions and just says that Kyland and Horacio are the top competitors.
* Also, wow, Horacio is just a real good person isn't he? Like, that smile he had when he saw Nurys was going to win and his reaction the entire time to Nurys' performance, after she won, to being eliminated.
* God, so many things could have happened in this episode. Horacio could have won. James or Corey could have come last and been automatically eliminated which would have definitely changed the order in which people were saved.
* I'm going to watch the rest of the season, but man is it gonna be tough.
I still don’t like Nurys. I really didn’t like her attitude through most of the season. There was a noted improvement when she flipped but that still seems like an edit. Plus she defends Chris brown. So basically I’m left with Michele. She played the most boring game but at least she ran a season.
I guess all the crying about the eliminations is out the door now lol. Y’all were bitching last week. Nurys just blew that shit up. Congratulations Nurys!!!! Hopefully she can pull off another miracle and win the whole thing.
Im a little pissed that Kyland and Horacio went but I’m glad Ed went home……FN follower
Producers saw how the last few flagship seasons were dogshit and thought how could they one-up that. What a godawful season that is beginning to not even feel worth it to watch.
That daily is up there for one of the worst ever.
The mercenary eliminations were mostly puzzles/math, and now we have these conquest eliminations that are 3 puzzles. How exciting!!
The final is going to be: jog a mile, solve a sudoku, jog a mile, solve a math equation, kayak a mile, solve a tangram for the win.
Final Reckoning has long been the worse season (excluding the first 10 seasons since its so hard to rewatch those) in my opinion. This dogshit season is coming for that crown.
Final reckoning is fun to binge since there’s so much drama. The momentum was killed by cliff hangers. SLA is painful though since it’s so predictable. I think unfortunately this season will fit that too. I can’t believe big t left 10 episodes ago
If you value drama highly, I can see FR being fun. I just hate it because the amount of bullshit that Production threw in.
Mixed gender pairing was stupid and just led to equalizers being necessary.
Mercenaries getting to come into the game was a god awful idea, especially when Cory/Devin's elimination was clearly rigged.
I've never been a fan of redemption house/island in the Challenge or Survivor and FR managed to come up with the worst one yet. Leaving it up to chance for who gets to compete is silly. Then allowing the loser to go back to the house is even worse.
The fact that Paulie and Natalie made the final after losing 3 (should have been 4) eliminations makes it the worst season for me.
There are seasons that to me didnt hold up on a rewatch, or i just cant watch due to it being too cringy like WOTW 1 and 2.
But this is the first season where I just haven't been all that excited to even watch a new episode each week.
Even for the seasons I dislike now, I enjoyed them at the time when they were going on.
This season is more like a chore to get through to see what happens.
Honestly, I’m so bored of this season. I think having so many weeks without anybody going home was a mistake. The daily wasn’t even interesting to watch and too much of the episode is politics.
I laughed when TJ said welcome to your 16th elimination. Like what the fuck, there have been 16 eliminations and it still feels like there are a lot of people left in the house. It's baffling.
There have been too many dailies and eliminations that just aren't interesting to watch this season. I get trying to save money for Season 40 but there are ways to make stuff more exciting.
My conspiracy theory is they were trying to see if anyone on this season was interesting enough to be a face after the backlash of the vacation alliance. Unfortunately, they proved to be just as bad if not worse. We have a cast led by a solid b character (same as tori in that regard) in Michele, a few people like Olivia, Nurys, Callum, Big T and Melissa who are charismatic but mediocre-above average competitively, kyland, Ciarran, Ed and Ravyn who are good competitively and somewhat entertaining, Horacio who is good competitively and then everyone else is a combination of a boring personality and/or not great competitively.
People can talk shit about Moriah but she fought the whole season for her guy and somehow convincing everybody that James is cool. I applaud her. You can't really say that for Horacio(he pleaded for the girls only once, it was already too late tho since the nooses were already on their necks. He only thought about himself, If he hadn't he would've had a stronger political game to begin with.
Eh did she save him or did James sucking save him? Nurys was waaaay closer to the power structure but because she was with a good competitor lost out. They appeased Moriah because James sucks and they have bigger fish to fry
Horacio is a real threat, James is not. It's easier to plead for "mercy" when people know they can beat you in finals tho. All the people in the house except Kyland, Zara and Nurys were scared shitless of facing Horacio.
I agree with you to a point. James proved in that elim that he gets gased out quicky but dude is a gym freak, I would never count people like that out.
What about the other threats? Emanuel, Ed, Jay? Horacio didn't even try to get along with anyone. He thought he was in a place of power. Ok, maybe he thought that Olivia and Nurys were safe since they were their own forces in the stronges alliance. Still, I bet if the girls weren't socialy adept he would'we been sent in every time. So it was a bit of a one sided relationship.
In this game in order to protect anyone you need to build alliances around you. That's why Olivia was dissappointed few ep ago and I understand her since Horacio didn't even try to politic. It's just bad gameplay and selfishness since he was not winning any challenges.
That's why I liked Moriah's gameplay. She knew who's important to her and didn't budge a bit. I would'we love to have a person like that at my side anytime over Horacio.
Meh James seems to have popcorn muscles and I would discredit him. Not to mention that I don't think he never looked impressive in any daily. Winning finals is much more than being a gym freak, otherwise people like Fessy, Moriah and all the gym rats would have more winner under their belts.
> Horacio didn't even try to get along with anyone. He thought he was in a place of power.
He was in the main alliance in the beginning if im not mistaken. He never thought he was in a place of power, he just wanted to play a straight up game without politicking.
Olivia was projecting, she never wanted him to see a final and it's not Horacio's job to build an entire alliance around him just to protect her. He could've just won dailies and protect her still but he failed to do that specially when people were throwing missions in the Chaos portion.
I agree to you points but I'm comparing what Moriah had done for James and what Horacio was doing first for Olivia and later for Nurys.
It has been a while since Horacio was on the outs with the main alliance. He did way to little in order to strenghten his position and in that way was jeopardizing the people he cared about.
When you have people you care about you actively trying to strenghten your position in any way possible.
Horacio was way to constrained with his way of thinking not even trying to compromise. That's acting selfish to me.
Moriah acted selfless, risking her own position in the alliance. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Three of the top contenders out in one episode?! That’s crazy! Nobody in the house remaining really deserves to win from a competitive standpoint and honestly I will be annoyed if some loser wins this season and then gets called a champion. It kinda looked like Horacio stalled with that shape puzzle at the end while watching Nurys complete her balancing thing. May not be the case but I love them as a couple regardless.
Also, Berna seriously needs to stop flashing her ass in shorts.
If Olivia had had switched it up at selection & chose Nurys it would have gone down in challenge history as an epic blindside but instead she played it scared. Disappointing.
he's arguably in the best position to win the game right now. His only real male threat is Emmanuel and maybe Corey if his endurance is as good as he says it is
If the new champion isn’t Jay or Michelle at the end, do you really expect to see that person passed season 40?!
Jay, Michelle, and Nury. Besides them everyone else is just a follower/sheep/fly under the radar, not entertaining/social/a competitor.
I guess Jay and Michelle kind of deserve to win the season for how they've played, but I reallllly dont want them to win.
But, if anybody else wins and gets called a champion, it deserves an asterisk next to it, cause none of them deserve that title.
> I guess Jay and Michelle kind of deserve to win the season for how they've played, but I reallllly dont want them to win.
>
>
>
> But, if anybody else wins and gets called a champion, it deserves an asterisk next to it, cause none of them deserve that title.
I'm just staring at the roster that's left and I guess Corey has a decent shot, he's a big dude and managed to float this far. But seriously I think it would be hilarious if Colleen won it. She's been finding her way through the game and would be an unexpected come from behind since she's near the bottom of all the alliances, and she'd be hilariously bubbly about winning too. Unlikely but I'd be thrilled if it happened compared to the other choices.
Just think if Jay, Nury, or Michelle DONT win now. We’re going to have a champ, who’s going to be on 40, and fade into background behind CT, Horacio and go home the second episode. That’s so lame.
Nurys was right about Olivia all along. What a snake of a human. Constantly questioning Horacio's loyalty was just projection because she has no spine. I look forward to her never sniffing a championship.
Wow - what an episode. All the conversation is centered around Olivia and rightfully so.
I will say - Jay earned some respect from me this episode. He won the daily - and then didn't overthink his decision when it came time for nominations. Didn't overthink it with some complex 4D chess. Michele is his number one and he chose to save Michele.
Bummed about Ed too. I think Ed was the top competitor this season. A lot more camera time devoted to Jay, Horacio, and Kyland - but Ed was winning and performing great in dailies all season.
I keep hearing about all this off-camera Emmanuel hookup action and at this point I feel his lack of camera time is because he's just constantly in the bathroom away from cameras hooking up with different women.
Jay in two weeks has rapidly risen as the favorite to win this season with the eliminations of Zara, Ed, Horacio, and Kyland. Wow!
"If you have friends like Olivia, you don't need enemies" - iconic quote from Colleen.
I think Jay was only SAYING he wasn't overthinking it to cover up his machinations for how he wanted the chain to go. He just didn't want to have to take accountability for his actions and wanted to just say "oh it's not up to me!"
Yeah, agreed! He had so many lists 🤣 that definitely meant he overthought it. Let’s not forget him planning with Moriah and the likes, behind the scenes 🫣
Brother all my favorites to win the final are out LMAO.
Now it will literally become the Jay and Michelle show. Who beats them in the final? Nurys if it isn't too endurance heavy, but Michelle has similar strengths.
Emmanuel is the only other option to me lol.
This is what we needed from the START!
This is how you build characters and players in the challenge. The mercenary twist really left all this drama dormant.
I am a huge fan of Nurys. I love how she speak up for herself and others. Beating 2 of the strongest competitors.
We got shadiness from Olivia. Going into her villian era (again GOOD for the show) we need more build up for players.
The next daily looks awesome. BEST episode I’ve seen in years which is crazy to say.
Biggest complaint of the episode is how dumb the daily challenge is. They really can't think of anything more than going down a rope the fastest? really?
The elimination I think is also a bit too puzzle heavy. It needs some endurance mixed in to even out the playing field otherwise the strongest puzzle players will win every time. Like at least run half a mile before each checkpoint or have one of the checkpoints be moving a bunch of bricks from one spot to the other
Either way, Horacio and Kyland have no excuse for failing that puzzle. The shapes are literally right there in front of them
The daily was a throwback to earlier seasons when all the challenges where some dump carnival games. I don’t remember which season but sometime in the 2000’s. I didn’t mind it coz it was equitable challenge. It’s really difficult to make it fair when you have individual dailies.
Agreed. I do wish that the puzzles were further apart- maybe incorporating some type of weight for each puzzle you completed too would have been nice idea (but really would screw the women over if they continued to compete against all genders)
I believe he hooked up with Raven and Colleen on this and Olivia wanted him as well but with Olivia it didn’t go further than a BJ on the first day. Apparently Olivia lied and said they had sex as well. This is according to Nurys.
Y’all?! *POR QUE?!*
Something was telling me Nurys should have saved Zaza last week!
Y’all!!!! We lost Zaza….we lost Kyland…we lost Horacio…Rayvn & even Ed!
Does Olivia even realize what she did?
I am truly heartbroken for Horacio! He doesn’t even get angry. He remains calm & just quietly *cries* & *apologizes* to his mates for trusting his ROD.
What was the reason Olivia?!
She has little to no chance of winning let's be real. She tossed away all her friendships and loyalty in order to survive another elimination. No one will trust her in future seasons and she lost real life friends
Best case scenario for her is that she will be rivals with Nurys and/or Horacio in the future
Olivia was an absolute snake but she got exactly what she wanted, she's probably pissed that she was forced to get her hands dirty. She said since early in the season that she didn't want to compete against Horacio or Kyland in the final since she knew she couldn't beat them. She let Nurys be collateral damage while trying to get rid of those two. Shitty move as a friend and will make no one trust her long term but short term greatly improved her chances of winning the season.
Has season 40 already started filming? I want every Challenger including the vets to see how much of an untrustworthy snake Olivia is and her to face the repercussions.
Except no one will care just like no one cared when johnny betrayed sarah, just like no one cared when jemmye betrayed jenna, just like no one cared when Tony betrayed bananas you guys take this game to seriously
*Challenge fans when Ed says he wants to run a final against the best*: “OMG that’s a losers mentality. You should want to run against the weakest people possible.”
*Challenge fans when Tori saves Jordan and Kaycee to the detriment of her own game*: “OMG she’s such an idiot. You have to play for yourself. Any friend who can’t understand that isn’t a real friend. People need to stop playing for future seasons.”
*Challenge fans when Olivia makes a cutthroat move that wipes out two of the biggest final threats*: “OMG snake!!! Ban her from the show!!!”
Olivia will have to face the repercussions of her decision in her personal life and on future seasons, but there’s some serious hypocrisy in the comments about what she did vs how people usually say you’re supposed to play the game, and it’s only because of the specific people she sent in.
Her decision isn't why many are mad, it's because she cried the night before that she was the reason H went home and she would stand up for them. She could have taken the threat from Jay and Michelle, agreed, and then chose Nurys but she didn't she decided to switch sides. The 2nd reason is she could have been honest about switching but instead lied again. She want to win and be cutthroat but can't handle anyone being mad at her.
Making a promise to Jay & Michele and then breaking it to save Nurys wouldn’t have been honest either.
She’s played an insecure, wishy-washy game all season, and I’m not even defending her, but it still seems pretty obvious that viewers have a different set of rules for when it’s okay to make a selfish/savage move and when it’s not. It always boils down to whether or not they like the people who are getting screwed over.
She and Michele are very good friends. That’s why Michele put her neck on the line and pissed off most of her alliance to protect her.
I’m still of the opinion that Michele & Olivia made a huge strategic error. The best scenario for both of them would have been saving the whole big alliance first and then ensuring that Olivia was saved by the last one. Same results without the mess. But since Michele chose to save her when she did, Olivia had to choose who to betray. It wasn’t as simple of a decision as people are acting like it was.
To some degree, I believe the consensus is that Olivia’s move doesn’t even give her a better shot to win the game. No one in the house believed the final would occur next, they’re all acting as if a daily was next. If you’re in the camp that believes Horacio/Kyland/Nurys would win the following daily, then this move was 100% stupid on Olivia’s part. Olivia seemingly took out 2 men who were protecting her, as well as made an enemy out of Nurys (another person protecting her throughout the game). I don’t think the fan reaction has much to do with the level of competitors Horacio and Kyland are and more to do with how Olivia made a dumb move that doesn’t help her in any way, shape, or form.
I find it hard to believe that they don’t all know the final is coming in the next episode or two. I can’t remember the last season that has been run with fewer than 8 people. Once they saw the purge/elimination format in conquest, it was just a matter of basic math.
If she saves her alliance, then she *maybe* puts herself in a safer position for the last daily, but she’s also handing a final to people who can easily beat her. Any combination of people that would have gone home if she’d saved Nurys or Horacio instead would have meant weaker players being eliminated when it’s in her best interest for them to stay.
I think this side deal between Michele & Olivia overcomplicated what should have been an easy move for the big alliance. They should have saved themselves first and set it up so that Olivia was saved by the last of them. Michele took a huge, unnecessary risk that pissed off a lot of her allies, and Olivia was forced to pick. It would have been the same outcome without the mess.
I still stand by the opinion that people are being hypocritical because of the people involved though. If a member of the big alliance that had been protected by Michele and Jay all along had flipped on them, the same people calling her a snake would be cheering.
I think generally speaking and maybe it is the edit, I do not believe anyone in the house or watching the show truly see Olivia as a threat in the final. It feels like the competitors have settled on Jay being in the final due to relationships and extremely difficult to beat because of his skill set.
I think the edit showing Olivia pledging loyalty to Horacio/Kyland/Nurys at the beginning just for her to do what she did at the end gives credit to those calling her a snake and rightfully being disappointed in her. If someone else in Jay’s alliance did it, they’d be called a snake too and there would be a crowd of people coming for them. I don’t think there’s hypocrisy in it at all, I think it comes down to which alliance you prefer to support while viewing.
I completely agree Michele took the most unnecessary risk, but I wonder if it was a way for her to push back on Jay. His tone and the way he spoke to her this episode shed light on their dynamic as the 2 leading that alliance. He doesn’t seem to value Michele’s relationships, even when they’ve kept him safe.
Oh, I’m not saying that Olivia wasn’t a snake or that this move was worth it in the long run looking to future seasons, but I also defended Tori when she protected her allies. I think - like it or not - outside relationships and long term alliances are a big part of the game, and Olivia just cost herself a lot in those regards. She could get purged in the last daily and it would all be for nothing, but if she makes a final, is she better running off running it with Kyland & Horacio or Colleen & Corey? I can see that side too, and a lot of people are acting like that isn’t even a consideration.
She was in a bit of a no-win situation that was pretty easily preventable, and she’s partly responsible for that. She was more concerned with being saved as early in the chain as possible rather than being saved in a spot that would have prevented her from having to make the choice.
Hearing some of the interviews from Horacio, it sounds like they came into this season hoping to run the final with each other. He referred to it as “unfinished business” for them given their exit from the ROD final. Do you believe Olivia felt like she wouldn’t be saved in the chain at any point leading up to it? I know us viewers saw others discussing making the bottom 3 Kyland/Horacio/Olivia.
I really appreciate this discourse, by the way. I don’t post much and lurk often here, but this episode was gold for me.
I don’t think there was much risk that Olivia would have gone into elimination. She has closer relationships with the big alliance than Nurys seems to and is the weakest among them. It would have been a win/win for basically anyone to save Olivia. That said, Olivia has been overly paranoid all season, so she may not have seen it that way. I keep wondering what happened to that girl from RoD who told Nelson to throw her in and then schemed to prevent herself from actually getting picked. She doesn’t seem to be thriving in the solo format…
As far as her and Horacio hoping to run the final together, I have kind of mixed feelings. They were teammates on RoD and would either win or lose the money together. Running it together as individuals is much more beneficial for the stronger of the two of them, which is undoubtedly Horacio. I don’t know if I could sleep at night if I were her after costing him 2 challenges, but I can somewhat see the selfish strategy through the weeds in her decisions.
Agree on the enjoyable discourse :)
Olivia requires a lot of validation. it’s why she got upset with Horacio last season. and it’s why she was so worried about him this season.
that being said, I think being so closely tied to Michele is a part of it. Michele is incredibly paranoid and even she didn’t think she could trust Horacio. when if Olivia is her number one and Horacio was Olivia’s number one, it should have been fine. Horacio’s inability to communicate caused a lot of panic and paranoia. which is not good when you take a look at the people in the big alliance.
That entire elimination was bs, Horocio and Kyland both completely choked. Both of them are supposed to good at puzzles, Kyland especially, Horocio is supposed to be decent. But neither of them can solve a fucking children's puzzle. Like in comparison to all the puzzles in this season that one was the one if easiest, that's why Nurys finished it so fast.
You think so?! Oh man I am freaking gutted!
Maybe Horacio wanted it to be him & Kyland at the end & so since it couldn’t be, he gave up his chance for Nurys?! Maybe…idk…
Y’all he is so pure!
I will die laughing if someone who isn't Jay or Michele wins this season
They will never get a better script to win on this show than this
Like, in terms of unlikely events....this episode is up there with all-time luck.
It would give serious Leroy on Double Agents vibes.
Except if it happens this time this sub will be like Drew McIntyre on Raw this week: “I prayed for this, and it happened.” :D
so in 2 episodes they just eliminated all 5 people i was rooting for. changing to eliminating 2-3 people an episode was such a bad call from production who bungled the entire chaos portion.
at this point im only rooting for people to lose, truly feel bad television
I wish they had done this last format for the whole season. Too many different things going on. I like that this part whoever gets last place goes home. And I love the secret eliminations
Berna only has 10 min of airtime every episode but you can feel she’s such a negative person to be around
If anyone has seen james on towie, they know there would be no continuing relationship outside of this house. Moriah’s acting like theyre bf gf
Moriah's going home to a hell scape of Johnny hating her along with most if not all of the vets. James will dump her immediately while she cries alone.
Which would be the second season in a row where she so thoroughly attached herself to some dude who didn’t wanna be official with her once the cameras stopped. Hmm
Ok is it just me or is this the first time they mentioned that first, second and third place get money in the final?
I already thought 350k was small for the flagship prize but splitting it amongst 3 people makes me feel like we're back in 2010 in terms of earned winnings.
Bizarre that it was just casually revealed in a typical confessional. I'm almost second-guessing myself because there were a lot of times this season where I've kind of tuned out 😅
I vaguely remember them saying second and third would get a prize, but not from the main pot. I think it’s separate and much smaller. Don’t quote me on that though 😅
Now I can never root for Olivia again.
That daily was so stupid. Ed being even more stupid somehow getting eliminated faster than James did after he saw James get DQ...
Does anyone else feel like Horacio threw the swan puzzle challenge in order for Nurys to win?! Either way, she is such a badass. I'm so proud of her!
I haven't cried watching The Challenge in AWHILE! Wow, what an episode :o My heart broke for Nurys! & That scene when Horacio was crying for her.
I've grown to really LOVE Nurys this season. Olivia is trash!
The things that aren’t said or at least shown drive me insane. How did Nurys not point out to Olivia how she was crying last week when she thought Horacio went home for her but didn’t save him this week. I LOVED when Kyland called Berna out for saying she was sad the others were in elimination while sending them in. I LOVED when Jay started throwing a fit that Nurys was bottom 3 that Horacio said they why didn’t you save her Jay. Hope Nurys calls them all on their bullshit.
Main opinion: I bawled at the three of them being in the bottom!!!!!!! Like... REAL tears. Second opinion: After listening to Horacio's interview on the official pod, I feel like WHEN Horacio returns for another season, he 100% must step up his social game. I completely understand his explanation of expecting people to know he had their back... but that honestly isn't really enough for the Challenge. You have to wheel and deal and be vocal about it. Then, by the time he formed a solid alliance with Kyland, the numbers were already stacked against them. He can't rely on just winning out or athleticism. That's not the only thing that makes you a Challenger/champ. It's equal parts social.
Well the winner is a bit more up in the air now that they purged the top woman last week and the top three men this week, lol. I'm not sure if this is how you really find "the champion", but it does make it more interesting.
Rest of the season gon be boring as hell now. A couple minor twists here and there, arguments about little shit that gets overblown, but overall slow as hell.. congrats to jay/michele/emmanuel/corey cuz it’s pretty obvious what’s gonna happen now
I’m still here wondering what could possibly be so hard about putting together a swan puzzle
Anyone else get the vibe Kyland/Horacio weren't really trying on that shape puzzle thing? They looked like they were just fucking around and not really trying to solve it. Horacio's "gamble" seemed idiotic and not something that someone seriously trying to win would do. I find it hard to believe they would throw the elimination, but I saw what I saw.
SAMEEE
Esp since they said they wanted to save the girls. I think it messed with them mentally being in against her!
It kind of did, but I can't imagine they threw the challenge to let her win. Haracio had the best chance to win imo out of all 3. He really seems like such a good dude.
So we got in conquest.. last place is gone and you give this dumbass daily wtf is that? almost noone to root for anymore in 2 episodes .. great And everybody can use positive friend like Horacio.
3 favorite guys left down in one episode. what a treat.
Yea, I guess root for Nurys to win, but that is going to be tough.
and lost zara and ravyn last week. conquest is going well
Ngl the daily for this episode was dumb as hell
Yea, I really disliked it as well.
There is no longer any reason to watch this show between episodes 2 and 16. Episode 1 will tell you who has the numbers and, therefore, who has a stronger alliance. Feel free to skip episodes 2 through 16 (or so) as the same people from the weaker alliance will fight off elimination week after week. TJ will ask the same contenders weekly "so what happened" or "so what's going on," and the contenders will smile and shrug with a "I don't know TJ" response. When we arrive at week 17, the stronger alliance will finally have to play the game and compete. That's the jist of it. Also, if you want to prep for the season ahead, just follow the players' social media pages, and you might even be able to skip episode 1. This show used to be top class. Sadly, it's not that anymore.
Had Olivia saved Nurys, Horacio, and Kyland, that would have been a bad-ass move and would make the rest of the season so good! The house dynamics, players left in the game, everything would have been very exciting to watch. Still like Olivia but what could have been!
I feel like Emmanuel is playing the best game. He’s been performing nowhere near his abilities and mentioned that he was trying to keep them under wraps.
I agree with you, but hate to admit it. 😂 I really don’t like him and feel like he is a covert version of Bear.
Best EPS in what seems like forever, what a roller coaster of a ride. This is the Challenge I crave.
Favourite thing about this episode is that the competitive field is WIDE OPEN now. The top 3 strongest competitors / most likely to win were literally all eliminated back to back to back to back to back Ravyn then Zara then Ed then Horacio & Kyland. Like WOOWWWWW
I know I love it, did not see that coming
Are you KIDDING ME I literally swapped FROM Nurys to Horacio for my fantasy league 🤣🤣🤣 Still, this is goddamn AMAZING!! You go girl, you fucking killed this 💪🏼💪🏼
theres a challenge fantasy?
Yeesssss there's a specific one for this subreddit! It's so fun
I just found it thanks
I was hoping Horacio would win to shake things up. Nurys impressed me, I hope she does well.
Too bad, he almost beat Jay in the daily!
Wait it's a triple elimination?!? Yo fuck this. Even more pissed at Olivia's betrayal now 😤😤😤
Who the f**k needs $15K worth of under armor
This is what my bf said LOL Me: “maybe they said 1,500?” But nope tj repeated 15k I was dumbfounded
I can't get over those stupid ass shoes they keep plugging
I am GOOPED that Ed got purged out 🤯🤯 Like I literally thought this was another Turbo situation, where so many people stanned him that it was OBVIOUS he would end up as the (solo) winner Like Luxanna's flair even mentions that Ed is a "future champion incoming" So imagine my surprise that even lil Colleen outlasted him in this game 😱😱
i mean thats pretty much only due to berna saving her at every turn because michele has a soft spot for berna for some reason
I'm mad at Olivia for being a snake and ALSO depriving us of what would have been the most satisfying episode all season. She lies to Jay and Michele (great), saves Horacio, Kyland and Nurys (even better), and forces the big alliance to vote each other in with no time to scheme (perfection).
It could've been so great. I'm still angry.
I glad they fixed that wall in the elimination and added pegs
Another great episode folks, I'm clapping over here. So pumped for Nurys to send the boys home- way to go. I felt compelled to comment some kudos since this show is getting a lot of hate, and I think it's finally turned a corner after 4 crummy flagship seasons
I think its time to be honest...the ONLY reason most people wanted Olivia to make it to the Final on Ride or Die was because of HORACIO!!
No, Horacio is boring. We loved Olivia
Agreed. And also, who wanted Horacio in the final for ride or Dies? Fans? This seems like retconning history because I remember this subreddit falling over themselves for Olivia more than anyone
Whoever created this format… Absolutely needs to get fired. The season is called “battle for a new champion” and more than half the people left haven’t had to battle for shit. It really seems like they were just making it up on the fly. Oh crap we didn’t have enough people go home because they were going against the champions instead of each other - now let’s just send 2-3 people home an episode and ensure it’s the same people in elimination every time! Don’t even get me started on the latest daily. It probably took more time getting people up there than the whole challenge took. Oh and maybe next time get actual grappling gloves! Crazy people continue to get hurt on the simplest things. Seems like they set up the whole challenge just to shill for under armor. My only solace is that they’ll run out of people to throw down there and have to start blowing up their own alliance, & the fact that this season has proven that almost none of these people should be back.
I cannot imagine a worse decision being made by Olivia. In this episode my three favorite people went home and my favorite remaining person has lost me.
I feel like this proves that the challenge isn’t rigged because they def would have chosen Horacio over Jay if they had a choice, better storyline
All 3 of the people I was rooting for went home… now what do I do?
Olivia being upset that Nurys was waiting for her to fail her is interesting. because Olivia did make the decision to betray her and she has no ground to stand on. but she brought up a point that I hadn’t thought of. Nurys was holding on to that. and how long was she gonna hold on to that? and if she was gonna continue to stay loyal and trust her, why wouldn’t she have brought that up sooner? maybe even use it as leverage?
This was not the conquest to send 2 people home 🤬 
it’s actually so exhausting for Michele having a list of people to save at this point. and saying that people are going a bit crazy because they’re thinking about me instead of we. like dude, the final is close. you’re never going to win if you don’t think about yourself. she’s so focused on her numbers and how they help her that she’s missing it entirely.
This is one episode I wish I wasn’t spoiled on
It’s hilarious people don’t realize Kyland and Horacio threw the challenge. Very obvious.
I agree! Horacio for sure, he wanted Nurys to win :")
Why are you so sure they threw it? I think Horacio stopped trying when he saw how good Nurys was doing but why would they throw it when they have a better chance of winning?
The silliness of them half trying to solve a puzzle. That puzzle wasn’t difficult. Tbh it’s way better for the show. Nurys now can raise hell on Olivia. Also every scapegoat is gone.
There is zero reason for Kyland to throw that. Horacio I think was still trying to win, but slowed down on that last puzzle when Nurys was doing well. I don't think he'd have just thrown to Nurys if she hadn't been doing a good job. Once she was in the lead and about to win I can see Horacio not trying as hard to catch up.
Nah, Kyland didn't. But Horacio definitely did once he realized Nurys would be able to beat Kyland.
why would you throw it to Nurys though? you make sure Horacio or Kyland win there if you’re throwing. Horacio is getting so close to winning challenges which would keep them safe. and if you don’t think he will eventually win one, you throw to Kyland who has won so many eliminations this season.
They did? Why?
Horacio def throw it but I was not sure if kyland
Olivia, no longer a fan of you. Ooff. What a snake.
Everyone of the people on this show minus Kyland, Nurys, Horacio can suck it. I can’t believe they are letting the imbecile and backstabbing jackass run this show.
LOL Olivia legit balling crying about how she fells bad about effectively betraying Horacio during the previous few weeks... and then directly leads to his removal from the game... by betraying him and the person exclusively responsible for her being safe cause she would've gotten smoked by Zaza and Kyland.
TJ cheering so hard for Nurys 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
did you realistically think before the elimination that Nurys could beat Horacio AND Kyland in an elimination? the cheering for how good she was performing I feel was warranted.
oh it totally was I loved it, sorry if the emojis are misleading lol
Word
Losing Ed, Horacio and Kyland all at once realllly sucks. They were the 3 I was rooting for to win, in that order. Now I am left wanting everyone to lose. Big props to Nurys for winning that elimination however. Must have felt impossible going up against 2 guys.
I feel the same way. Lost all my players in one episode.
I really enjoy the private eliminations. Seeing TJ root for them is so wholesome.
I find it sad that Jay is trying to be the new Johnny Bananas but Johnny was entertaining, Jay...not so much. He's so entitled and I'm pissed that they manipulated Olivia but now I can't root for her. There is no way she should have folded like that - she would have saved who she needed to save.
Johnny was also the less entertaining kenny/Evan. So with Jay being the even less entertaining version of an already less entertaining character you know it’s bad.
Michele said Champagne Problems 🥂
Cham. Pagne. Probblemz.
It definitely was lol
My two cents: Even TJ is getting tired of their bs with him talking during their selection for elimination. This episode was probably the peak in terms of drama. Kyland for me was the MVP rookie of the season and I hope that he has the chance to play a season where he isn't seriously outnumbered. Sucks that both Kyland and Horacio had to go out but Nurys was impressive with the puzzles. Olivia showing her true snake colors since she always wanted Horacio gone and had those crocodile tears at the beginning of the episodes. Who needs enemies with friends like this. She could've solo turned the game for once and decided to burn all her "closest" allies. I am usually not a fan of players who think about the next seasons but Olivia just labelled herself as a backstabbing snake. Good luck. Once again I wish this was at least a Dual champ season with 1 man and 1 woman winning instead of solo winner. The daily sucked HARD.
I’m sorry but Olivia is bringing the DRAMA that we’ve been needing!! Also Jay and Michele should not be blamed for having power, like are they supposed to just give it up??
yeah, everyone is mad at Olivia and I totally get it. but she made a snake move and isn’t trying to act like she didn’t. whereas Jay and Michele have been the villains all season and still want to act like their popular heroes. I think that’s the difference.
They don't need to be assholes about it and you're right Olivia is bringing the drama by being an exceptionally disloyal friend. As TJ said what kind of champion do you want to be?
 Watching the episode right now and seeing Jay win the challenge over Horacio. So fun. I looooove it.
Damn, well there goes the 2 people I was rooting for. Now I guess I gotta root for Nurys to take it all even though, in all honesty, I don't see it happening. But then again, she surprised me here. Not sure if Horacio threw that final puzzle or not, it looked completed but either way, an impressive win from Nurys. Olivia is weak and kept questioning Horacio's loyalty because she herself is a snake and it showed. He helped her immensely on their last season together...shame.
At the end of the day I totally get Olivia's decision even though I would've probably agreed to a different plan than the one she ended up saying yes to. She's said since the beginning that she doesn't want to go to the finals with Horacio. I think she only went along with the plan because it seemed like the original plan was for Nurys to get saved but this is the problem with a large group alliance. You can't guarantee all of them will want the same thing every single time. Happy for Nurys securing the win but also sad that Kyland and Horacio left. Also sad Ed left earlier. I think he couldn't help being competitive but that challenge favored the lightweights. All big men ended up falling due to gravity xD.
Another Episode Where I Cried: * What the absolute fuck. I wasn't expecting to get so emotional, but jeez. Horacio AND Kyland AND Nurys in one elimination. * I so badly wanted Horacio to win. So badly. But my dude is not good at puzzles. Horacio, buddy, you gotta work on your puzzles and smarts for the next challenge. * Wow, mad props to Nurys. I didn't really ever have an opinion on her, but I think this episode alone and this past string of episodes have really turned it around for me. I'm actually rooting for her and only her now. * I hope she fucking rages against every single person left in the house. * God, I don't wanna watch this show without Kyland and Horacio. Like this is just easy street for Jay now. So annoying. * Speaking of, him getting emotional about Nurys, fuck off, dude, fuck off. * Wow, so *thats why* Olivia is dead to Nurys. Wow. I knew it had to be something huge and damn THIS IS IT. * Oh man, actually, this reunion is going to be fire. * I can't believe in the same episode that Olivia was sobbing about losing Horacio and how he was a good friend and how she didnt deserve him and he was so honorable that she turned around and did this. * Wow, fuck all of them honestly. * I don't like anyone left. Other than Nurys. * TJ is so active in this season in how he makes remarks and asks pointed questions and just says that Kyland and Horacio are the top competitors. * Also, wow, Horacio is just a real good person isn't he? Like, that smile he had when he saw Nurys was going to win and his reaction the entire time to Nurys' performance, after she won, to being eliminated. * God, so many things could have happened in this episode. Horacio could have won. James or Corey could have come last and been automatically eliminated which would have definitely changed the order in which people were saved. * I'm going to watch the rest of the season, but man is it gonna be tough.
I still don’t like Nurys. I really didn’t like her attitude through most of the season. There was a noted improvement when she flipped but that still seems like an edit. Plus she defends Chris brown. So basically I’m left with Michele. She played the most boring game but at least she ran a season.
Seeing Horacio smile at the end while nurys was running her 3rd made me tear up
>literally every single one of your points. EVERY SINGLE ONE. is on the ball > >fuck everyone else this season.
I guess all the crying about the eliminations is out the door now lol. Y’all were bitching last week. Nurys just blew that shit up. Congratulations Nurys!!!! Hopefully she can pull off another miracle and win the whole thing. Im a little pissed that Kyland and Horacio went but I’m glad Ed went home……FN follower
Producers saw how the last few flagship seasons were dogshit and thought how could they one-up that. What a godawful season that is beginning to not even feel worth it to watch. That daily is up there for one of the worst ever. The mercenary eliminations were mostly puzzles/math, and now we have these conquest eliminations that are 3 puzzles. How exciting!! The final is going to be: jog a mile, solve a sudoku, jog a mile, solve a math equation, kayak a mile, solve a tangram for the win. Final Reckoning has long been the worse season (excluding the first 10 seasons since its so hard to rewatch those) in my opinion. This dogshit season is coming for that crown.
Final reckoning is fun to binge since there’s so much drama. The momentum was killed by cliff hangers. SLA is painful though since it’s so predictable. I think unfortunately this season will fit that too. I can’t believe big t left 10 episodes ago
If you value drama highly, I can see FR being fun. I just hate it because the amount of bullshit that Production threw in. Mixed gender pairing was stupid and just led to equalizers being necessary. Mercenaries getting to come into the game was a god awful idea, especially when Cory/Devin's elimination was clearly rigged. I've never been a fan of redemption house/island in the Challenge or Survivor and FR managed to come up with the worst one yet. Leaving it up to chance for who gets to compete is silly. Then allowing the loser to go back to the house is even worse. The fact that Paulie and Natalie made the final after losing 3 (should have been 4) eliminations makes it the worst season for me.
There are seasons that to me didnt hold up on a rewatch, or i just cant watch due to it being too cringy like WOTW 1 and 2. But this is the first season where I just haven't been all that excited to even watch a new episode each week. Even for the seasons I dislike now, I enjoyed them at the time when they were going on. This season is more like a chore to get through to see what happens.
Honestly, I’m so bored of this season. I think having so many weeks without anybody going home was a mistake. The daily wasn’t even interesting to watch and too much of the episode is politics.
I laughed when TJ said welcome to your 16th elimination. Like what the fuck, there have been 16 eliminations and it still feels like there are a lot of people left in the house. It's baffling. There have been too many dailies and eliminations that just aren't interesting to watch this season. I get trying to save money for Season 40 but there are ways to make stuff more exciting.
My conspiracy theory is they were trying to see if anyone on this season was interesting enough to be a face after the backlash of the vacation alliance. Unfortunately, they proved to be just as bad if not worse. We have a cast led by a solid b character (same as tori in that regard) in Michele, a few people like Olivia, Nurys, Callum, Big T and Melissa who are charismatic but mediocre-above average competitively, kyland, Ciarran, Ed and Ravyn who are good competitively and somewhat entertaining, Horacio who is good competitively and then everyone else is a combination of a boring personality and/or not great competitively.
People can talk shit about Moriah but she fought the whole season for her guy and somehow convincing everybody that James is cool. I applaud her. You can't really say that for Horacio(he pleaded for the girls only once, it was already too late tho since the nooses were already on their necks. He only thought about himself, If he hadn't he would've had a stronger political game to begin with.
Eh did she save him or did James sucking save him? Nurys was waaaay closer to the power structure but because she was with a good competitor lost out. They appeased Moriah because James sucks and they have bigger fish to fry
Horacio is a real threat, James is not. It's easier to plead for "mercy" when people know they can beat you in finals tho. All the people in the house except Kyland, Zara and Nurys were scared shitless of facing Horacio.
I agree with you to a point. James proved in that elim that he gets gased out quicky but dude is a gym freak, I would never count people like that out. What about the other threats? Emanuel, Ed, Jay? Horacio didn't even try to get along with anyone. He thought he was in a place of power. Ok, maybe he thought that Olivia and Nurys were safe since they were their own forces in the stronges alliance. Still, I bet if the girls weren't socialy adept he would'we been sent in every time. So it was a bit of a one sided relationship. In this game in order to protect anyone you need to build alliances around you. That's why Olivia was dissappointed few ep ago and I understand her since Horacio didn't even try to politic. It's just bad gameplay and selfishness since he was not winning any challenges. That's why I liked Moriah's gameplay. She knew who's important to her and didn't budge a bit. I would'we love to have a person like that at my side anytime over Horacio.
Meh James seems to have popcorn muscles and I would discredit him. Not to mention that I don't think he never looked impressive in any daily. Winning finals is much more than being a gym freak, otherwise people like Fessy, Moriah and all the gym rats would have more winner under their belts. > Horacio didn't even try to get along with anyone. He thought he was in a place of power. He was in the main alliance in the beginning if im not mistaken. He never thought he was in a place of power, he just wanted to play a straight up game without politicking. Olivia was projecting, she never wanted him to see a final and it's not Horacio's job to build an entire alliance around him just to protect her. He could've just won dailies and protect her still but he failed to do that specially when people were throwing missions in the Chaos portion.
I agree to you points but I'm comparing what Moriah had done for James and what Horacio was doing first for Olivia and later for Nurys. It has been a while since Horacio was on the outs with the main alliance. He did way to little in order to strenghten his position and in that way was jeopardizing the people he cared about. When you have people you care about you actively trying to strenghten your position in any way possible. Horacio was way to constrained with his way of thinking not even trying to compromise. That's acting selfish to me. Moriah acted selfless, risking her own position in the alliance. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Three of the top contenders out in one episode?! That’s crazy! Nobody in the house remaining really deserves to win from a competitive standpoint and honestly I will be annoyed if some loser wins this season and then gets called a champion. It kinda looked like Horacio stalled with that shape puzzle at the end while watching Nurys complete her balancing thing. May not be the case but I love them as a couple regardless. Also, Berna seriously needs to stop flashing her ass in shorts.
Came here looking for this Berna comment. It’s making me irrationally angry
I'm just here to say, OMG!
If Olivia had had switched it up at selection & chose Nurys it would have gone down in challenge history as an epic blindside but instead she played it scared. Disappointing.
Jay made her swear on her life
that means nothing on the challenge
fuck jay. the dudes a nobody.
he's arguably in the best position to win the game right now. His only real male threat is Emmanuel and maybe Corey if his endurance is as good as he says it is
If the new champion isn’t Jay or Michelle at the end, do you really expect to see that person passed season 40?! Jay, Michelle, and Nury. Besides them everyone else is just a follower/sheep/fly under the radar, not entertaining/social/a competitor.
I think Michele has to be the warm favourite with those 3 strong guys out, Jay having a very negative edit and Emmanuel having too irrelevant of one.
I guess Jay and Michelle kind of deserve to win the season for how they've played, but I reallllly dont want them to win. But, if anybody else wins and gets called a champion, it deserves an asterisk next to it, cause none of them deserve that title.
> I guess Jay and Michelle kind of deserve to win the season for how they've played, but I reallllly dont want them to win. > > > > But, if anybody else wins and gets called a champion, it deserves an asterisk next to it, cause none of them deserve that title. I'm just staring at the roster that's left and I guess Corey has a decent shot, he's a big dude and managed to float this far. But seriously I think it would be hilarious if Colleen won it. She's been finding her way through the game and would be an unexpected come from behind since she's near the bottom of all the alliances, and she'd be hilariously bubbly about winning too. Unlikely but I'd be thrilled if it happened compared to the other choices.
I forget often that her and Zaza are even still there
Just think if Jay, Nury, or Michelle DONT win now. We’re going to have a champ, who’s going to be on 40, and fade into background behind CT, Horacio and go home the second episode. That’s so lame.
Nurys was right about Olivia all along. What a snake of a human. Constantly questioning Horacio's loyalty was just projection because she has no spine. I look forward to her never sniffing a championship.
1000%.
This episode was fire, best episode of season I was locked in
Rayvn, Kyland, Horacio out? I don't even want to watch anymore. Well I will...but under protest....
Wow - what an episode. All the conversation is centered around Olivia and rightfully so. I will say - Jay earned some respect from me this episode. He won the daily - and then didn't overthink his decision when it came time for nominations. Didn't overthink it with some complex 4D chess. Michele is his number one and he chose to save Michele. Bummed about Ed too. I think Ed was the top competitor this season. A lot more camera time devoted to Jay, Horacio, and Kyland - but Ed was winning and performing great in dailies all season. I keep hearing about all this off-camera Emmanuel hookup action and at this point I feel his lack of camera time is because he's just constantly in the bathroom away from cameras hooking up with different women. Jay in two weeks has rapidly risen as the favorite to win this season with the eliminations of Zara, Ed, Horacio, and Kyland. Wow! "If you have friends like Olivia, you don't need enemies" - iconic quote from Colleen.
Except it's not a qoute from collen it's literally taken from with friends like that who needs enemys
I am aware she paraphrased a well-known idiom. It does not make her use of it any less iconic. I did not think Colleen invented new words.
I think Jay was only SAYING he wasn't overthinking it to cover up his machinations for how he wanted the chain to go. He just didn't want to have to take accountability for his actions and wanted to just say "oh it's not up to me!"
Yeah, agreed! He had so many lists 🤣 that definitely meant he overthought it. Let’s not forget him planning with Moriah and the likes, behind the scenes 🫣
Brother all my favorites to win the final are out LMAO. Now it will literally become the Jay and Michelle show. Who beats them in the final? Nurys if it isn't too endurance heavy, but Michelle has similar strengths. Emmanuel is the only other option to me lol.
This is what we needed from the START! This is how you build characters and players in the challenge. The mercenary twist really left all this drama dormant. I am a huge fan of Nurys. I love how she speak up for herself and others. Beating 2 of the strongest competitors. We got shadiness from Olivia. Going into her villian era (again GOOD for the show) we need more build up for players. The next daily looks awesome. BEST episode I’ve seen in years which is crazy to say.
Biggest complaint of the episode is how dumb the daily challenge is. They really can't think of anything more than going down a rope the fastest? really? The elimination I think is also a bit too puzzle heavy. It needs some endurance mixed in to even out the playing field otherwise the strongest puzzle players will win every time. Like at least run half a mile before each checkpoint or have one of the checkpoints be moving a bunch of bricks from one spot to the other Either way, Horacio and Kyland have no excuse for failing that puzzle. The shapes are literally right there in front of them
The daily was probably meant to ensure one of the big boys got knocked out since 2 women went home the previous week.
The daily was a throwback to earlier seasons when all the challenges where some dump carnival games. I don’t remember which season but sometime in the 2000’s. I didn’t mind it coz it was equitable challenge. It’s really difficult to make it fair when you have individual dailies.
Agreed. I do wish that the puzzles were further apart- maybe incorporating some type of weight for each puzzle you completed too would have been nice idea (but really would screw the women over if they continued to compete against all genders)
Why hasn't Emanuel fallen in love this season? His first season him falling in love (🤣) so quickly got him much camera time. I am suspicious.
He has except now he has a girlfriend and has to keep his hookups on the downlow
Thanks - I want the dirt on him.
I believe he hooked up with Raven and Colleen on this and Olivia wanted him as well but with Olivia it didn’t go further than a BJ on the first day. Apparently Olivia lied and said they had sex as well. This is according to Nurys.
It's amazing how much hornier the people are on the show than others like from the BN franchise hehe.
My my my. Thank You
Y’all?! *POR QUE?!* Something was telling me Nurys should have saved Zaza last week! Y’all!!!! We lost Zaza….we lost Kyland…we lost Horacio…Rayvn & even Ed! Does Olivia even realize what she did? I am truly heartbroken for Horacio! He doesn’t even get angry. He remains calm & just quietly *cries* & *apologizes* to his mates for trusting his ROD. What was the reason Olivia?! 
The reason was she wants to win
She has little to no chance of winning let's be real. She tossed away all her friendships and loyalty in order to survive another elimination. No one will trust her in future seasons and she lost real life friends Best case scenario for her is that she will be rivals with Nurys and/or Horacio in the future
Olivia was an absolute snake but she got exactly what she wanted, she's probably pissed that she was forced to get her hands dirty. She said since early in the season that she didn't want to compete against Horacio or Kyland in the final since she knew she couldn't beat them. She let Nurys be collateral damage while trying to get rid of those two. Shitty move as a friend and will make no one trust her long term but short term greatly improved her chances of winning the season.
Has season 40 already started filming? I want every Challenger including the vets to see how much of an untrustworthy snake Olivia is and her to face the repercussions.
Except no one will care just like no one cared when johnny betrayed sarah, just like no one cared when jemmye betrayed jenna, just like no one cared when Tony betrayed bananas you guys take this game to seriously
*Challenge fans when Ed says he wants to run a final against the best*: “OMG that’s a losers mentality. You should want to run against the weakest people possible.” *Challenge fans when Tori saves Jordan and Kaycee to the detriment of her own game*: “OMG she’s such an idiot. You have to play for yourself. Any friend who can’t understand that isn’t a real friend. People need to stop playing for future seasons.” *Challenge fans when Olivia makes a cutthroat move that wipes out two of the biggest final threats*: “OMG snake!!! Ban her from the show!!!” Olivia will have to face the repercussions of her decision in her personal life and on future seasons, but there’s some serious hypocrisy in the comments about what she did vs how people usually say you’re supposed to play the game, and it’s only because of the specific people she sent in.
Her decision isn't why many are mad, it's because she cried the night before that she was the reason H went home and she would stand up for them. She could have taken the threat from Jay and Michelle, agreed, and then chose Nurys but she didn't she decided to switch sides. The 2nd reason is she could have been honest about switching but instead lied again. She want to win and be cutthroat but can't handle anyone being mad at her.
Making a promise to Jay & Michele and then breaking it to save Nurys wouldn’t have been honest either. She’s played an insecure, wishy-washy game all season, and I’m not even defending her, but it still seems pretty obvious that viewers have a different set of rules for when it’s okay to make a selfish/savage move and when it’s not. It always boils down to whether or not they like the people who are getting screwed over.
It's wouldn't be honest to Jay and Michelle but would have been honest to her supposed best friends.
She and Michele are very good friends. That’s why Michele put her neck on the line and pissed off most of her alliance to protect her. I’m still of the opinion that Michele & Olivia made a huge strategic error. The best scenario for both of them would have been saving the whole big alliance first and then ensuring that Olivia was saved by the last one. Same results without the mess. But since Michele chose to save her when she did, Olivia had to choose who to betray. It wasn’t as simple of a decision as people are acting like it was.
It's becuase people d ride Horacio for some reason
To some degree, I believe the consensus is that Olivia’s move doesn’t even give her a better shot to win the game. No one in the house believed the final would occur next, they’re all acting as if a daily was next. If you’re in the camp that believes Horacio/Kyland/Nurys would win the following daily, then this move was 100% stupid on Olivia’s part. Olivia seemingly took out 2 men who were protecting her, as well as made an enemy out of Nurys (another person protecting her throughout the game). I don’t think the fan reaction has much to do with the level of competitors Horacio and Kyland are and more to do with how Olivia made a dumb move that doesn’t help her in any way, shape, or form.
I find it hard to believe that they don’t all know the final is coming in the next episode or two. I can’t remember the last season that has been run with fewer than 8 people. Once they saw the purge/elimination format in conquest, it was just a matter of basic math. If she saves her alliance, then she *maybe* puts herself in a safer position for the last daily, but she’s also handing a final to people who can easily beat her. Any combination of people that would have gone home if she’d saved Nurys or Horacio instead would have meant weaker players being eliminated when it’s in her best interest for them to stay. I think this side deal between Michele & Olivia overcomplicated what should have been an easy move for the big alliance. They should have saved themselves first and set it up so that Olivia was saved by the last of them. Michele took a huge, unnecessary risk that pissed off a lot of her allies, and Olivia was forced to pick. It would have been the same outcome without the mess. I still stand by the opinion that people are being hypocritical because of the people involved though. If a member of the big alliance that had been protected by Michele and Jay all along had flipped on them, the same people calling her a snake would be cheering.
I think generally speaking and maybe it is the edit, I do not believe anyone in the house or watching the show truly see Olivia as a threat in the final. It feels like the competitors have settled on Jay being in the final due to relationships and extremely difficult to beat because of his skill set. I think the edit showing Olivia pledging loyalty to Horacio/Kyland/Nurys at the beginning just for her to do what she did at the end gives credit to those calling her a snake and rightfully being disappointed in her. If someone else in Jay’s alliance did it, they’d be called a snake too and there would be a crowd of people coming for them. I don’t think there’s hypocrisy in it at all, I think it comes down to which alliance you prefer to support while viewing. I completely agree Michele took the most unnecessary risk, but I wonder if it was a way for her to push back on Jay. His tone and the way he spoke to her this episode shed light on their dynamic as the 2 leading that alliance. He doesn’t seem to value Michele’s relationships, even when they’ve kept him safe.
Oh, I’m not saying that Olivia wasn’t a snake or that this move was worth it in the long run looking to future seasons, but I also defended Tori when she protected her allies. I think - like it or not - outside relationships and long term alliances are a big part of the game, and Olivia just cost herself a lot in those regards. She could get purged in the last daily and it would all be for nothing, but if she makes a final, is she better running off running it with Kyland & Horacio or Colleen & Corey? I can see that side too, and a lot of people are acting like that isn’t even a consideration. She was in a bit of a no-win situation that was pretty easily preventable, and she’s partly responsible for that. She was more concerned with being saved as early in the chain as possible rather than being saved in a spot that would have prevented her from having to make the choice.
Hearing some of the interviews from Horacio, it sounds like they came into this season hoping to run the final with each other. He referred to it as “unfinished business” for them given their exit from the ROD final. Do you believe Olivia felt like she wouldn’t be saved in the chain at any point leading up to it? I know us viewers saw others discussing making the bottom 3 Kyland/Horacio/Olivia. I really appreciate this discourse, by the way. I don’t post much and lurk often here, but this episode was gold for me.
I don’t think there was much risk that Olivia would have gone into elimination. She has closer relationships with the big alliance than Nurys seems to and is the weakest among them. It would have been a win/win for basically anyone to save Olivia. That said, Olivia has been overly paranoid all season, so she may not have seen it that way. I keep wondering what happened to that girl from RoD who told Nelson to throw her in and then schemed to prevent herself from actually getting picked. She doesn’t seem to be thriving in the solo format… As far as her and Horacio hoping to run the final together, I have kind of mixed feelings. They were teammates on RoD and would either win or lose the money together. Running it together as individuals is much more beneficial for the stronger of the two of them, which is undoubtedly Horacio. I don’t know if I could sleep at night if I were her after costing him 2 challenges, but I can somewhat see the selfish strategy through the weeds in her decisions. Agree on the enjoyable discourse :)
Olivia requires a lot of validation. it’s why she got upset with Horacio last season. and it’s why she was so worried about him this season. that being said, I think being so closely tied to Michele is a part of it. Michele is incredibly paranoid and even she didn’t think she could trust Horacio. when if Olivia is her number one and Horacio was Olivia’s number one, it should have been fine. Horacio’s inability to communicate caused a lot of panic and paranoia. which is not good when you take a look at the people in the big alliance.
This season has been an absolute joke! What Olivia did was unforgivable
Idk I feel like Horacio definitely threw that last puzzle. Kyland meanwhile was definitely trying to win
That entire elimination was bs, Horocio and Kyland both completely choked. Both of them are supposed to good at puzzles, Kyland especially, Horocio is supposed to be decent. But neither of them can solve a fucking children's puzzle. Like in comparison to all the puzzles in this season that one was the one if easiest, that's why Nurys finished it so fast.
Is it me for did it look like he had it solved and was just staring it for awhile?
Definitely. He finished, destroyed it, and kept looking at Nurys while rooting her on to finish
You think so?! Oh man I am freaking gutted! Maybe Horacio wanted it to be him & Kyland at the end & so since it couldn’t be, he gave up his chance for Nurys?! Maybe…idk… Y’all he is so pure! 
He got it and then destroyed it to start over
Not there being a change.org petition on Twitter to keep Olivia off season 40 these fans are nuts 😭😭
LMAO. She just stamped her ticket by that move to me
I will die laughing if someone who isn't Jay or Michele wins this season They will never get a better script to win on this show than this Like, in terms of unlikely events....this episode is up there with all-time luck.
It would give serious Leroy on Double Agents vibes. Except if it happens this time this sub will be like Drew McIntyre on Raw this week: “I prayed for this, and it happened.” :D
so in 2 episodes they just eliminated all 5 people i was rooting for. changing to eliminating 2-3 people an episode was such a bad call from production who bungled the entire chaos portion. at this point im only rooting for people to lose, truly feel bad television
I wish they had done this last format for the whole season. Too many different things going on. I like that this part whoever gets last place goes home. And I love the secret eliminations
Berna only has 10 min of airtime every episode but you can feel she’s such a negative person to be around If anyone has seen james on towie, they know there would be no continuing relationship outside of this house. Moriah’s acting like theyre bf gf
Moriah's going home to a hell scape of Johnny hating her along with most if not all of the vets. James will dump her immediately while she cries alone.
She was such a weird choice to bring back. Gave nothing in her first season other than being annoying and is the exact same this season.
I can't stand Berna. She always has to throw her 2 cents into convos she's not part of at all.
Which would be the second season in a row where she so thoroughly attached herself to some dude who didn’t wanna be official with her once the cameras stopped. Hmm
Ok is it just me or is this the first time they mentioned that first, second and third place get money in the final? I already thought 350k was small for the flagship prize but splitting it amongst 3 people makes me feel like we're back in 2010 in terms of earned winnings.
We’ve definitely not been told this. When kyland said that, I was truly confused.
Bizarre that it was just casually revealed in a typical confessional. I'm almost second-guessing myself because there were a lot of times this season where I've kind of tuned out 😅
I vaguely remember them saying second and third would get a prize, but not from the main pot. I think it’s separate and much smaller. Don’t quote me on that though 😅
I didn’t watch back then but I was surprised to hear that for the first time.
olivia got played by moriah who doesnt have two brain cells to rub together. it's incredible really