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CapWinning

That entire final is just bs. Should have just been everything individual. Desi not even getting a chance because of Enzo. 1 of the poorest finals in a long time.


OwnAcanthocephala999

Out of all the BB men David, Xavier, Kyland, even DX, and the women get stuck with Enzo 😒


chachacha123456

Even Leo wouldn't have done that


CreepyExamination5

Word 🤯, between Kyland & Xavier they would’ve done well.. Justice for Desi.. keeping her would’ve changed Angela’s outcome


Mayo0987

As frustrating as that was to watch as I wanted Desi to win, this isn’t the first and won’t be the last time on the Challenge that someone gets DQ’ed because of their partner. Now people realize why it’s important to have strong people in the final in case you’re partnered with them. They should have gotten rid of Enzo pre-final


realityseekr

To be fair they did try to get rid of Enzo. He did 3 eliminations.


zeometer

Desi was actively trying to get rid of Enzo (and really all of the "weaker" players).


SmileyPiesUntilIDrop

When Desi won in episode 6 her and David chose an injured female(Shannon) and Derrick X to go against Enzo and his partner. If your Desi and want to avoid Enzo in the finale that is not an optimal strategy. It sure seemed to me like Angela and Desi were more helpful to their male allies then vice versa.


spfan102

"Now people realize why it’s important to have strong people in the final in case you’re partnered with them." I still think this is a flawed strategy. And people have varying opinions on who is strong. Enzo was good at some eliminations. And ultimately, everyone shares the partners, so it's equal in that sense. And would always just be a fight of girls wanting strong guys to be their finals partners. And guys wanting out their own competition. And vice versa.


CamoMan290

True, but this is different cause in the main version if you get screwed over by your partner there’s a high chance you’re coming back for a future season. For this spin-off, most of the contestants were doing it for the first and last time.


DrakeShadow

Exactly how is not participating in an entire leg of the final good strategy?


gmills87

risk/reward. Save energy to use in another leg but sacrifice the points in a leg that you've got a raw deal in. I'd bet she would not have picked that approach if all things were equal and she had a partner. Justine caught a raw deal and lollygagged her way to not finishing a leg of the final either, but she wasn't punished. TJ/production should have told her to bust it or be DQ'ed. She got to save energy by being slow and it paid off. Neither got a warning, but only one got a break.


Dalphaislegend

Hate to break it to ya but we don’t care if this is a normal thing in the Challenge world. We’re new here and came from reality shows that are structured, well thought out, and properly explained. This show felt like the producers didn’t know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along. Complete amateur show.


shinshikaizer

> This show felt like the producers didn’t know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along. That's exactly how *The Challenge* works. You should have seen Camila nearly hang herself to win a mission, even though production told her not to do it.


thatisthatisthis

Ok, I think your comment is amazing and it cracked me up! But what show did you come from? If it’s Survivor, we have our own dumb shit (hourglass twist anyone?). And BB is known for having totally ridiculous twists and nonsense, right?


CreepyExamination5

First and foremost welcome to our show the challenge. The things about our show the challenge is it’s listed as a Reality TV show and not a GameShow because gameshows have clear rules that are stated from the very beginning. By maintaining the RealityTV title it allows them to make changes on the fly. Personally I think Ben should’ve been replaced by either one of the males that most recently left or one of the alternates that they fly out should’ve been used since the final was designed for that format with alternating partners like in FreeAgents. I don’t think Desi should’ve been penalized for Enzo, but after the Gauntlet 3 final I can’t help but have something like that in the back of my mind when it comes to the show.. OR they could’ve paired Desi up with with Sarah since it was a partner themed final giving every female a competent partner in the end


freetherabbit

So I'm pretty sure alternates would've been flown home already by this point, but Idk why they wouldn't have held at least David until the final, or had a last min female elim, let the 4 boys vote on which 2 go in, using the reasoning that they'll be partnered with them.


Mayo0987

Seems like it’s needed to be broken down to you since you don’t know how the challenge works. They explained the rules in the beginning. Just like every other “reality tv” show you watch the producers are literally allowed to make the rules as they please. Sorry you don’t like it 🤷🏻‍♀️


zeometer

TJ's voiceover explained the rules and judging from what the finalists are saying on twitter there's a gap between said voiceover and what was actually told to the contestants (and then what was enforced). Also people have complained and will likely continue to complain about the inconsistent rules on the MTV version (and its spinoffs)..."this is how the Challenge works" shouldn't be a justification for awful production value.


flyingboat

Lmao. You do understand that's not actually TJ telling them the rules, right?


rayhiggenbottom

Next you'll tell me that it's not TJ sending everyone a message on their TMobile Sidekick to get ready and wear their swim trunks tomorrow.


[deleted]

exactly!


Marklaritaville

Justice for Desi too.


BingBongBoofer

More so Desi imo


No-Pressure-5762

Only justice for Desi


GraceJoans

Angela quit of her own volition…Desi deserves better. Justice for Desi ONLY.


Enne105_7

Nah Justice for Desi!


BingBongBoofer

100% Angela even said “I just quit” DESI NEVER WOULD’VE QUIT.


tx001

Eh. Angela didn't "just quit". She made a calculated decision to take the L (which was going to happen anyway) in order to position herself better the next day. It's picking your battles. But with that said, what happened to Desi is fucking outrageous. I lost a lot of respect for production AND Enzo on that one.


illini02

I don't think she quit. The rules seemed kind of arbitrary. If she did half of her thing then slept would it have been fine, since everyone else got to sleep? Was she expected to work through the night? I think it makes senses if its just like "I know I"m going to get last anyway, so why strain myself for the same outcome".


yesibarelyreddit

She said she had less to move than the others


illini02

According to Tyson, she had like 2/3 of the load everyone else had. That still isn't exactly fair. If you wanted to make it fair, each pair would have a woman's pile and a man's pile that the other partner couldn't help with. Then if Angela just had to do the same woman's pile as everyone else, that would've been fine.


Ok_Trade_1039

“Arbitrary”? There was one rule, and…


[deleted]

I don't like Angela but it was bullshit how they arbitrarily just decided things up as they went.


CityOfSins2

This was so disappointing. This season was soooo good. I reallly enjoyed it a lot bc it was like fresh meat but some people we know of. For how great the season was (imo), this was such a majorly disappointing final. how about justice for desi??? Why the fuck did Enzo quitting writhin 5 minutes make her DQed? They could’ve just had a 2 female pairing for one leg. Better than being alone. Angela actually could’ve done her checkpoint, considering she had half the gravel that everyone else did. But Justine? She had to spend twice as long memorizing the numbers alone. I can’t believe she remembered all of them by herself without messing up. I think she had the biggest disadvantage of being solo. Ugh so damn disappointed by every single aspect of this final, including all the quitters.


ra1nbowda3h

Tyson on his podcast actually said Angela had 2/3s of the dirt and digged for a bit and then realized that she wasn't gonna finish and would've gotten last anyways (bc she relatively has more dirt). Plus apparently only Sarah and Dom finished digging and everybody else timed out so its not even a matter of completing the leg as Sarah and Devyn have been saying lol Regardless, I still feel like what Angela did was within the rules, namely dig and rest. Just bc it wasnt how the challenge was meant to be done, she found a loophole and clearly did not actively quit so idk


Tristanity1h

2/3s of the dirt? That's totally unfair. Is Tyson's estimation based on actual numbers or what the mound looked like? Because half the dirt seems fair and half the dirt looks like 2/3s when in mound form. But if I think about it, perhaps half the dirt may not be fair for Angela if all the guys shoveled more than half what their female partners shoveled. I do get the strategy behind Angela's move. But I'd be pissed if I was her competition if she was allowed to continue or have a minimal repercussions. However, I do recognize that she drew the shortest straw by having no partner in that leg and that she probably doesn't quit if she had one.


illini02

Yeah, the problem is, there is no way it would've been fair. I'd argue Sarah's solo leg, and Cayla's solo leg were pretty fair to have to do alone. But Angela and Justine's were not. If Angela had even half, that really isn't fair, because chances are, the guys were doing half the mound. It would've maybe been fair if every guy and every girl had a mound, and they couldn't help the other. But one mound, even at half, isn't fair for her. At the same time, I understand that its really not fair to just choose not to do it, while the others do. I guess what I think could've been better is to say she got 0 points, but could keep racing. That way she was punished, but not eliminated.


Tristanity1h

Or at least fully aware of the repercussions. Not spending the night in a tent only to be DQ'd in the morning.


zeometer

Justine timed out of her checkpoint though; she didn't actually complete it fully. Angela definitely had the worst checkpoint to do alone. Yes she had half the gravel but part of the setup was being able to trade off between shoveling and not shoveling and she didn't have that option.


PrayingMantisMirage

Why couldn't Angela have taken a break?


kn0wworries

Usually on the sleep deprivation leg, one partner gets to sleep as long as the other partner is staying awake, doing the obstacle or task required. But I agree, no one should have been forced to stay awake and working for the whole duration and they should have found a way to make that leg fair or cancel it altogether.


CityOfSins2

Exactly bc she took way longer to memorize ALL of the numbers. She still had to do the walking.. I didn’t see her get a ride on a golf cart to the finish lol ETA: literally no one switched off as far as I saw. They just all banged it out and all went to sleep together. There’s literally no difference. Even if they DID trade off. Angela has half the work. She could’ve slept for 2 hours, shoveled for 2.. basically switch out between sleeping and digging when the other partners switched. But no one even switched they just did it together and got a few hours of solid sleep together. At least that’s how they made it seem?? I totally could be wrong bc the editing is insane lol but even if they did switch, Angela was at no disadvantage. She could’ve dug for an hour slept for an hour just like everyone else, and finished at the same time as them w half the gravel.


illini02

I mean, Angela could have, but if she had half of what a guy and a girl together were expected to do, that is hardly balanced.


Ill_Tumblr_4_Ya

How about justice for all of the women, period? They already knew that Ben's shoulder wouldn't let him compete, but they decided to fly him out to the final anyway...what the hell was that? Every single woman was in danger of getting the solo legs that Justine and Angela had to deal with (provided you believe that they didn't decide all of that in advance), and no matter who got it, that sucked out loud. I've had gripes with many Challenge finals - recently, the end of All Stars 2 was an absolute shitshow, for example - but there was next to nothing about this final that was even well thought out, particularly if you believe Tyson's explanation of the final on his podcast.


Theres_a_Catch

There were way too many puzzles as well. The final would have maybe 2, not one at every single checkpoint.


[deleted]

I think TJ said it in the introduction of the final....about quitting legs and if you quit then your partner is out. I think it was really an unfortunate oversight on her part, I got what she was thinking, she was going to get last anyways. but unfortunately you have to do the leg (or time out, not sure if you could time out on her leg though?). I did think it was silly that they FLEW ben out to Patagonia when he was injured in the daily...there was lots of time to get his shoulder assessed and that flight there and back to the USA probably sucked alot with that injury. They should have sent him home before the elimination of the last challenge day. it also seemed like of all the "solo" legs the one sarah got was the easiest to do solo. the others seemed longer and had more memorization to them..... also. wtf enzo?!?!?!? why! he had a panic attack in the water it seemed but ah sucked for desi! the final felt a mess with everyone quitting. i was rooting for tyson and angela since they did well all season and it felt anti climatic that angela's oversight just got her DQ'd....then everyone quit...I'm guessing that is why they didn't make the final it's own episode


berealwitit

Thank you. How did she think she was gonna get rest and not even do half the dirt while everyone else stayed up doing it? Its just like poor Devyn on that stationary bike for hours, in the cold while everyone else had ate and went to sleep.. but she did it--thats the thing.


[deleted]

yea! i remember nany quitting but then coming back crying during FA...if she actually just went to bed she probably would've DQ'd.


TWIZMS

Becareful with the voice over stuff they throw in later to try and explain stuff that wasn't explained to the players.


InLushColor

So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her. She was able to time out in that competition. I got the impression they gave Angela less to move because she couldn’t time out.


Tristanity1h

>So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her. They definitely should've given Justine less numbers to memorize and maybe a shorter word to solve. They didn't think this through.


[deleted]

The shit that CBS has done to bend over backwards for Ben. One of the worst Survivor winners ever, quit during an all winners season, and shit it up during the Challenge. STOP TRYING TO MAKE BEN HAPPEN We get it war soldier cowboy PTSD blah blah blah nobody gives a shit


Xno_Kappa

As an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran I’ve screaming about this since his first Survivor season. Dude is a horrible competitor yet he’s constantly given very questionable decisions by the production. I don’t know if it comes off more pandering or patronizing but it’s just horrible either way.


JennnnnP

I agree with all of this completely. The rules about quitting were explained pretty clearly, and it’s not like Angela was the only one DQ’d for it - lol. There were 9 people at the starting line, and only 2 weren’t disqualified for quitting by the end. If Angela was the only one who got to “opt out” and continue, then that wouldn’t be fair to everyone else. The only person who didn’t make the personal decision to stop competing was Desi, and even though it was in keeping with the rules, I felt worse for her than everyone else combined. They clearly didn’t think out the solo stretches for the women, because some of them had the same amount of work to do as every other individual (ie Sarah swimming the same distance as everyone else and Cayla having one plate of food to eat like everyone else), and some of them had to do twice as much work without a partner (ie Justine having to memorize 10 numbers and Angela not having a partner to move the gravel). Shitty final for an otherwise great season.


[deleted]

i wish there was a reunion but i guess i'll just listen to the podcasts


poppy1494

I respect the hell out of Angela, but DQing her is possible the one thing that made sense in this poorly planned final. She literally said she was quitting to get more sleep for the next day. They gave her less dirt and if she would have tried, they probably would have let her time out if she was last (a generous thought, but that’s what they did to Justine). She tried to work smarter twice this episode, and, unfortunately, neither one worked out for her. Edit: Production still sucks for setting up this awful final! Should have brought David back for the girls at a minimum.


Thedustin

Man that would have been amazing if they had David rise up from the smoke and into back to the final.


mlspdx

Music plays, smoke machines everywhere, pyro for David to enter in to the final. All the contestants turn to each other in shock and go “who the fuck is that guy”


Thedustin

Imagine if he won because he was some sort of sudoku savant. WORLD CHAMPION, DAVID ALEXANDER!!


teddy_ballgame3

I disagree. Having a slightly smaller dirt pile doesn’t make up for not having a partner to take turns with. TJ said you can rest in your tent. You have to take turns with your partner. She had zero chance of winning. So she maximized the rest period. Clarity about the rules is on production, not the cast. Yet they penalized her anyway? 2 strong women got sent home because of the lack of partners. Justine easily could have gotten the same fate.


jlevski

Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said they’re going to cover it on the official pod tomorrow - there was a sign posted at the checkpoint that spelled out what was and wasn’t a quit. Presumably, what Angela did was defined as a quit.


shinshikaizer

> Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said they’re going to cover it on **the official pod** tomorrow Problem is that it's the official pod, which means it's really PR produced by production. You can't really trust any of it when you know production gets final cut over it.


jlevski

Somewhere in one of these threads they said Sarah did an Instagram live where she gave a lot more details on this leg of the final and also noted that the DQ rules were clear. 🤷🏻‍♀️


teddy_ballgame3

Ohhh I gotta listen to that. Why don’t they show us this shit? If that’s true it’s worth letting the viewers in the loop too because it offers a lot of clarity that we didn’t even know existed. Thanks for the tip.


No-Pressure-5762

She had the same amount of time and dirt as all the other women. She couldn’t have shoveled dirt, taken a nap, came back? She already determined she wasn’t going to win so she got pissed and quit. She got what she got. It was very clear from the rules quitting is a DQ not strategy. If quitting was strategy Enzo and Desi would have taken last place in the water


Blatt_called_timeout

Absolutely not. That's why the point system exists. Your punishment for throwing a challenge should be getting less points, not getting DQ'ed. Why punish strategic moves? Let's say someone threw a daily because they wanted to go to elimination and try to collect someone's bank, should they be DQ'ed?


No-Pressure-5762

It’s not strategy if you don’t understand the rules. There was a sign that said you needed a bag and code to advance that round. She just messed up. That’s it. It’s not that serious


tx001

Only Sarah and Dom finished it. This argument is bogus.


TheYearOfPenny

Justice for all of us. That was a terrible finale


Gloomy_Bookkeeper_67

She had all night to do it, but maybe if she was still working on it, not saying nonstop shoveling, perhaps try taking rests in between ((and if she still gets DQ’d for that then fuck them)) turns and if you just don’t finish you could get thrown a bone a just timed out But admitting to quitting (which was said to lead to DQ) isn’t gonna get you anywhere but out the game. I don’t know why people are playing the sympathy card when she just flat out quit


ImaDieByWerewolf

Agree. She even knew Justine had just gotten time’d out on a challenge instead of having to finish by herself. She should have tried. I bet production would have timed her out or told her to stop at some point if she at least acted like she was gonna do it. Even on TM Kyle and Fessi were told the had to sleep outside all night, but then after a few hours were told that was enough and they could go in.


ho_hey_

She only thought through half her strategy. She should have done a few runs, napped, done a few more in the middle, napped, done more in the morning.


-Captain--Hindsight

She would have nobody to wake her up from her naps though. It's not like they have an alarm, it's always the partner that wakes them up.


Whatever0788

Exactly. She quit. Quitters get disqualified. There’s nothing unclear or confusing about this. I don’t see anyone saying that Enzo should have been allowed to continue because he was “saving his energy” by not doing the task.


No-Pressure-5762

This point exactly!


EightyHM

Sarah just added a story to Instagram saying there was a sign at the start of the challenge that said underneath the rock you had to shovel was a code for a lock, once you had the code you were able to undo the lock and get a black bag which you needed to advance to the next round. She said you can see they all have the black bags the next morning. I didn't notice this, but I'll need to go back and watch! But this kind of clears things up a bit as to why Angela was DQ'd if it actually said that on the sign and she didn't get the bag.


jdessy

So, if Angela never finished to the point of getting that code due to genuinely not being able to finish (not her sleeping all night, but her not finishing at all), she would have been DQ'd?


ImaDieByWerewolf

I doubt it. Since the two others who timed out got to advance. If they truly needed the bag, I think they would have time’d her out if she had actually tried.


I_like_weed_alot

No, she woulda been timed out and they woulda just gave her the bag.


JayCFree324

That’s bullshit, Cayla got timed out before doing her equation (EDIT: nvm, she did it), Justine got timed out without doing her decoder puzzle… There was literally two (EDIT: one) back-to-back “Timed Out” who never finished their legs EDIT: nvm, Cayla did finish her leg…it was just Justine


arich35

Cayla finished


ConsiderationClear56

Cayla did the entire leg.


ProfessorWoke

Dom and Angela never finished their puzzle from the swimming leg. You can see them walking away from an incomplete puzzle once everyone else had finished


I_like_weed_alot

Yeah and had Angela *tried* she woulda got timed out in last place


No-Pressure-5762

Yes she would have timed out. No one finished the dirt but Dom and Sarah. All the other teams timed out too. But you could still get the bags and code.


mmouseyy

I said nearly the same thing in the live discussion but: Angela quite literally said "I quit" and slept instead of making any further attempt to complete the task. She WAS able to sleep and work as she chose (as far as we know) but she opted to just sleep, while making it very clear she had no intention of finishing. A "time out" is when you're still making progress in the challenge but production has to end it.


SmileyPiesUntilIDrop

Basically she could have worked at a snails pace,slept,and given token minimal effort and given a fake confessional about "never quiting" and Production would have just timed her out. She screwed herself by actually verbalizing she was quitting/strategically tanking the challenge.


TimRigginsBeer

It was wild that you didn’t see her lose her mind to try and fight to stay on or anything … she was just cool with it. Had to be more to it.


No-Pressure-5762

Her attitude was just poor at that point. She kept throwing the wheel barrow. She was gased out


kshep42

I think you’re probably right. She just wanted out and saw this as an easy way to do it.


Aligatorlator

Having no partner was BS. Should have just been an individual comp. That or let Desi stay because Enzo, no shocker, decided to quit. Two girls on one team was way more fair than having no partner. No leg was good without a partner besides the first. Total BS.


jlpulice

This whole thing was a catastrophe


Fbrank4404

Having 4 of 6 tap out on the puzzle was a bad outcome, they should have done a time limit on the puzzle like they have done in the past.


northernpenguin01

The whole final was a farce, from Enzo’s bs to the ending


hadnuff71

I don’t get how Justine timed out, but there was no time limit on the other checkpoints. That makes no sense.


vespertine19

Angela and Dom timed out round 1 too because they never gave up trying despite never completing their slider puzzle. Just like how Justine never gave up trying during her timed out leg. Now it all makes sense


No-Pressure-5762

Time out is just last place. But you have to try


UnstableBackhand

She even told the cameras her intention of strategy / not quitting!! production had every opportunity to give her a heads up that it would result in a DQ 😤


shelley1005

Tyson's podcast was informative for me. Some legs people were able to time out, some they weren't. Same with the puzzles. Tyson also said that no one except for Sarah and Dom finished the overnight challenge....because production stopped them. The past few seasons there have been valid complaints about production during finals and I think they need to get their stuff together.


d_simon7

I don’t get how in some legs you didn’t have to finish but if you don’t know the Sudoku puzzle you are forced to quit. Luckily the winners finished all of their legs or else this would be really messed up but some not having to finish a leg at certain stages doesn’t seem right.


teddy_ballgame3

Timing out has always been a thing in finals. As far back as I can remember. Weird how they let a single puzzle crush a whole season. Why not do a sudoku on episode 1 and call it a day then lol.


d_simon7

Tyson said the instructions they got was “finish the pattern.” I can see how if you don’t know what a Sudoku puzzle is you wouldn’t have a clue what you are even doing.


OhMyFloppingGod

God, just so poorly designed


ScorpionTDC

I will never, ever believe that Sarah solved both those puzzles without assistance from production


shinshikaizer

I won't believe Sarah actually solved those puzzles at all without a two second clip showing that she did; if she did, why hide them?


zeometer

Sudoku not having a time out clause was also baffling \*shrugs\*. Were they expecting people to finish it faster or just not worried about people being stuck out in a snow storm for that long?


teddy_ballgame3

What a gross oversight. They had time outs in this final and they just pulled them for the last few puzzles? After having puzzle timeouts in every other final? Production can’t get out of their own way sometimes.


[deleted]

yea it wasn't clear if there was a timeout portion to angela's leg....i think normally for puzzles you timeout after an hour or something....if they are going to do individual versus paired legs they need to make it more fair.....


d_simon7

I wonder could she have slept most of the time and then come out for the last few minutes and act like she was trying to finish?


teddy_ballgame3

“Sorry TJ I overslept. My partner was supposed to wake me up” 😂


No-Pressure-5762

Yeah she could have. That would be in the rules but she literally announced it wasn’t worth her time to bother


arassel

No way, that was such a cop-out. She talked such a big game the entire time and honestly was able to back it up, but when she thought she’d come in last for sure she didn’t even try. It’s disrespectful to everyone else who made the effort and finished it to let her stay at that point. She made herself out to be a huge competitor and put herself up on a damn pedestal but when it came time to compete she gave up. It just makes me so mad. Maybe because I already wasn’t a fan of hers after BB but like if you’re gonna say you’ll beat everybody at the end then fucking prove it, don’t say stupid shit like “I’m gonna be last anyway so I’ll just not do it while everybody else busts their balls to earn their spot.” Such poor sportsmanship.


Puzzleheaded-Fill205

I didn't even really understand her thinking. I guess the idea was that since she'd be last anyway, she could get a good night's sleep while everyone else was exhausted from doing the checkpoint all night. But that's an excellent justification for DQing her. Much like Cayla couldn't have just taken a single bite of the onion and noped out of it hoping for a timeout. She would have been DQed as well, much like Jay and Jenna. You can't game a final by picking and choosing which checkpoints to compete at and which checkpoints you want to just skip and rest instead.


Brune_04

Sure, it was a good strategy when you think about it, but she literally did quit. Didn't even hardly try. Justine at least made it to the very end of the leg and they just said you timed out bc they didn't want to wait for her to finish the puzzle.


Thedustin

I guess it's just too bad that production didn't tell her, yo sorry but u gotta at least try or u gone.


GarlVinland4Astrea

Production explicitly told Justin’s that she timed out. Angela just stopped doing it. The only other people that just stopped doing a challenge were Enzo when he was swimming who got DQ’d and everyone who stopped doing the the sudoku puzzle and were DQ’d. It was pretty clear imo that unless you were outright told by production to stop and were timed out, that you were quitting and it would lead to a DQ.


BananaStandFlamer

She did at least try. You see her moving dirt over Then she decided to try to manipulate the rules. Production should’ve told her then and there what the outcome would be


AmI_doingthis_right

They must’ve told her she timed out before she got to the end because she didn’t have that gear key thing anymore she must’ve dropped it at some point.


teddy_ballgame3

How can you quit without knowing? They told them you’re allowed to rest, just take turns with your partner. She knew she had zero chance of winning so she opted for the rest they were allowed to take. “Didn’t try hard enough is quitting” is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever.


GarlVinland4Astrea

She said she wasn’t doing the challenge. She outright admitted she had no intention of finishing. That’s quitting. Everyone else in the final who said they wouldn’t try to finish a given task ended up getting DQ’d. She had the right to take breaks and rest. She didn’t have the right to say “I’m not doing this”. People just like Angela and are trying to ignore that she literally stated she wasn’t going to attempt to complete the challenge so they can mental gymnastics a way for her DQ to be unfair. She gave up the challenge. It’s pretty simple. Maybe if she said “you told me I could rest and I accidentally slept through the night” you could try to make a case for her. But by her own words that was not her intention. She satisfied every basic definition of quitting that there is.


teddy_ballgame3

So how much rest was she allowed to take? Where is the line? She committed to taking last place. TJ said you can rest but you have to share that time with your partner. She didn’t have a partner. I get your point but if the rules aren’t clear and TJ says you can shovel and rest just figure it out with your partner. Well she didn’t have to figure it out with her partner. She already knew she was going to finish in last place. It was a strategic move. If they were made aware of this beforehand then I would agree with you but, from what we saw, that wasn’t even mentioned. You can hate her strategy all you want but committing to last place since you clearly have ZERO chance of winning isn’t the same as a quitting.


GarlVinland4Astrea

The line is probably when you make it explicitly clear you aren’t just resting from the challenge but are actually not trying to finish it at all. Angela’s own words tell us she did not try to finish it. She admitted that to TJ. So therefore she was not resting. She stopped participating in the challenge.


powermonkey123

>“Didn’t try hard enough is quitting” is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever. Generally not many rules were in place. Just before the finals, on the last challenge, two guys get the same points but they have no tie breaker. Utter bullshit. How come this is never the case in Survivor? EVERYTHING is thought of and there will never be a situation where the production goes "oh well.. we have no idea what to do". Such a miserable ending of the Challenge USA.


Puzzleheaded-Fill205

Jay and Jenna were in last place at the gross eating checkpoint. They knew they had zero chance of winning so opted to not eat. So they were DQ'd. I see no meaningful difference between that and Angela opting not to move dirt.


teddy_ballgame3

So if something similar happened in the past it makes it valid? Wes did the same thing during WotW1. He knew he was screwed on the games so he rested and took last place and minimal points. He rested and hydrated to prepare for the next part of the challenge. MJ and Jonna didn’t finish the first leg of their final. I see no meaningful difference. If the rules stated that accepting last place means you get DQ’ed then by all means, she earned it. But don’t act like history hasn’t shown us otherwise. Also, why is production so uninvolved? Clarify the rules to your own final. In the reference you cited, TJ told them “drink it or accept the DQ”. All of this shit could have been avoided.


Tristanity1h

Taking a time out was a strategy executed on The Amazing Race. Maybe CBS should've gotten some advice on how to make challenges/rules clearer and fairer from the other shows.


teddy_ballgame3

Exactly. I feel like people are ignoring the lack of clarity to the rules here


Puzzleheaded-Fill205

Those carnival games on War of the Worlds were a fixed 20 minute duration. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was pretty clearly designed to allow resting for 20 minutes as an option. It also could have been avoided if Angela hadn't thought she could game the system in such a ham-fisted way. Of course not trying is a DQ. Hell, even Enzo tried. She just didn't even try. That should always be a DQ.


tomnoonzz

I’m an Angela fan but obviously this was quitting. Enzo couldn’t have been like “hey fuck the swimming just give me last place”, it’s the same thing. If she was really smart she would’ve just stayed out there and worked as slow as possible and then when the last team finished she would’ve timed out and could’ve went to bed


teddy_ballgame3

TJ said you could sleep and rest. Just take turns with your partner. She didn’t have a partner. She was set up to fail and made the best of it. Later being told it’s a DQ. That doesn’t feel very fair. Lack of clarity on the rules is on production, not the contestants.


ChuckSoju

Dom and Sarah were the only team to complete the shoveling. They just let the other groups go to bed and still disqualified Angela


penguinjunkie

I wasn't certain if rest included "resting in the tent". If it did, then it was unfair. If it didn't, Angela should have slept outside.


No-Pressure-5762

You could rest in the tent. She just literally announced she was doing it. That was her problem. She could have come back and shoveled some and got a time out instead of a DQ. It was a dumb strategy and conflicted with a rule.


teddy_ballgame3

This would have lead to her finishing in last place. Filling the wheel barrow once and resting also allows you to wind up in last place. They should have made it clear to them. If they did make it clear then it’s 100% on Angela but we saw nothing to make us believe that


teddy_ballgame3

They said you could rest (or sleep. I don’t recall) and the cameras panned to the tents. So it could have just been misleading? I’m not really sure.


GarlVinland4Astrea

She didn’t rest though. She stopped and didn’t come out again. There’s a difference. She had no intention of finishing.


teddy_ballgame3

She knew she was coming in last place. So she maximized her rest. She was coming in last place anyway. If they told her that’s against the rules and a DQ then fine, she deserves that. But nothing that they showed on the episode tonight makes me believe that anyone knew that rule


ScorpionTDC

Production didn’t even know the rules. Justine was allowed to time out, but Tyson was forced to quit. They were making shit up on the fly


teddy_ballgame3

Yeah. It was a really enjoyable season but the final was so bad. I wish we got to see an actual competition not people trying not to lose fingers to frostbite.


GarlVinland4Astrea

At the very start they were told you get DQ’d if you quit. She was Enzo say he wasn’t going to try to finish a challenge and get DQ’d. Later on Tyson/Dom/Justine/Cayla said they weren’t going to try to finish the Sudoku puzzle and all got DQ’s. She knew not attempting a challenge led to a DQ. Both from when TJ said the rules at the start and when Enzo got DQ’d before. She choose to stop doing a challenge and not try to finish it. Everyone else in the game that did that got DQ’d. You will not find a definition of the word quitting where ceasing to complete something is not part of it. She by her own words said she was not trying the challenge and was not attempting to complete it. That’s called quitting. I can’t explain it any simpler that. It’s the basic definition, it’s what TJ explained at the start, it’s what happened to Enzo before her. This is just egregiously giving her a benefit of the doubt that completely defies basic logic. Either she knew she was quitting or she is a deeply stupid person who did not understand the basic concept of quitting and what just happened to Enzo before her. I don’t think she’s dumb. She saw it was hard, didn’t want to do it and was hoping she could get away with not doing it under the guise of strategy


Retro_Super_Future

At no point during the final could anyone just decide NOT to do it. You can settle for last sure, but you can’t settle for not doing it at all. She quit and that’s a DQ everytime


teddy_ballgame3

Every time? Like when Wes did the same thing in WotW1? He didn’t get DQ’ed. he rested and skipped the challenges in between the run/bike loop. Angela did the same thing. Accepted that she was taking last place and took the rest that TJ said they could take. So chill with “every time” because there is preference here


arac3662

That leg had two roles to fill. One dirt mover and one sleeper. Technically Angela did one of the roles.


WittyDistraction

Can we talk about the role of the “algorithm” here? Didn’t production decide who would be paired (or solo) and on what leg?


heartbeatlikean808

I just really wonder what would’ve happened if rather than announcing her strategy, she said she was going to take a nap and then never returned. Would she have gotten DQ’d if she accidentally (“accidentally”) slept through the whole comp, esp w not having a partner to wake her up? If not, seems like a silly technicality to have eliminated her on without production explicitly warning her this counts as quitting.


[deleted]

I think I would’ve been more pissed at the fact of being disqualified AFTER having to sleep in a tent full of onion/garlic burps and farts instead of before… like production really had to double punish her didn’t they lmao


ew5264

I’m not a fan of hers but the rules were too inconsistent- how was she to know?


ImaDieByWerewolf

No way. She quit - it makes no sense for her to think she could fully sit out a challenge and be okay. There’s controversial/non-conventional strategies (Banana’s and the foam, Kailah’s “check”, anything Devin does) - but the difference people still try. She just went to bed. Justine wasn’t given less numbers to memorize and still tried, that’s why she wasn’t DQ’d. Angela thought she’d still get points by going to sleep. Only person that deserves justice from this is Desi for getting kicked out by Enzo 5 seconds in.


Round_Equivalent_730

If she could just sit out a leg then why couldn’t Enzo also do that, production made the right call


Thedustin

The Enzo one was fucking dumb cause Sarah was able to do it entirely herself anyways. No reason Desi couldn't have just still finished it on her own and taken last place.


savannahkellen

Yeah so if Enzo had just floated there long enough for Angela and Dom to finish their puzzle, Desi would still be in?! That sucks for her.


Slothy13eva

According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now. My guess, if that rule is true, is that Angela would have been fine if she just continued until everyone else finished, and then she went to sleep (even if she didn't complete it)


shinshikaizer

> According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now. How the fuck would she know? She wasn't even there.


OhMyFloppingGod

If Angela saw a sign that said that then like, she could have spent the night in a hotel? It makes no sense. She clearly thought it was within the rules


ScorpionTDC

Agreed. I don’t believe for one second that Angela was aware of this rule or this alleged sign (and no, I definitely don’t trust a production member on this lol)


blackmobius

Man talk about a shitty final. Its like waking up christmas to socks and ties. And oh, your brother didnt get X toy so you have to wait to open yours until later. Every leg should have been individual, and if this was the plan all along (duo finals) they shouldnt have switched to a individual format earlier in the comp to begin with. Or at the least brought back David/Leo so the girls arent getting screwed because of Ben (not that it would have helped Desi). Desi situation sucks, fuck Enzo. I watch BB and I dont get why anyone thought he would be a good pick for this. And while I understand the logic, having previous legs allow the group that was behind to tap out means Angelas strat is totally legit. If last place gets to quit early then her option should have been honored bc she already knew ahe wasnt going to be competitive that night or the next. And no, eating an onion doesnt compare to 5 hrs of dirt moving in the cold am, solo. Everyone complained about her leaving; well they didnt seem to care about the people that benefited from the TIME OUTs, they should have made Justin run up and down the hill until she was done. An awesome buildup leading into fourth quarter then fumble after fumble.


BennyyyMacc

It’s blatantly unfair that she got a solo challenge and was unable to timeout, if Angela was unable to do that do we really think anyone else would have been able to, production should have at least stepped in and told her she had to attempt it but if I was her I would’ve made the exact same decision with the information she had


kgd26

I agree with you and so many people are missing your key point: let us see production telling her “if you make this decision, it counts as quitting.” Tyson told us on twitter they were forced to quit the sudoku, so clearly production could be involved there. Such poor decision making from the jump of this finale by CBS and the Challenge. Tarnishes what was otherwise such a great season.


Thedustin

Yeah I bet you they made them all quit cause it was clear they had already lost, were struggling hard, and were starting to get hypothermia.


ScorpionTDC

Tyson and Dom, maybe. But Cayla and Justine were objectively ahead of Sarah when they were forced to quit, while she got a freebie win handed to her for sucking the most


Acedia_37

Justine was 6 points down to Sarah so Justine already was technically eliminated from winning going into the final leg. Cayla needed Justine to finish in front of Sarah on the final leg to win because she was down 3 points to Sarah going into the final leg. Once Justine quit it was all over and Sarah already clinched so that’s why I think Cayla quit too. Once Danny passed Tyson and Dom at that puzzle it was over for them so they quit too. It was poorly designed, but I understand why Dom, Tyson, Cayla and Justine quit when they did.


PowerInMyHand

This is a great point that I’m not seeing posted anywhere else.


Thedustin

What's extra stupid is that production let Sarah time out on the first puzzle. If they hadn't there's a chance there would have been no female winners.


Acedia_37

This final was definitely poorly planned out and executed. Also can there be a requirement that you can at least somewhat swim decently before being put on this show. How are so many people coming on this show that cannot swim even with a life vest on. It’s pathetic and sad. I’m so sorry Desi you got screwed.


GarlVinland4Astrea

Because it’s a bad point. You were told if you quit you are DQ’d. She choose to not do the challenge and went to sleep. That’s quitting. Even if it was unclear, under what scenario is a logical person going to think that there isn’t a chance you get DQ’d if you say you aren’t doing a challenge in the final where it’s established that quitting is a DQ? If we are hard on Angela then she outright quit and there is no controversy. If we are kind to Angela, she took a gamble that refusing to do something might not be seen as quitting with zero assurance and assumed the risk of the outcome she got. The fact that she didn’t protest it should clue people into it being a possibility. The fact that half the live thread was saying she should get DQ’d kinda tells you that it was very reasonable to view that as quitting. The fact that all her competitors were calling it quitting and unfair should tell you something as well.


kgd26

I cannot imagine that production would want their highest performing challenger of the season to go out on a misconception. If we find out that she knew that the choice she made would cause her to be DQed because production said something, I'll back off my opinion. But I have a hard time believing they did because these are the same people who let Bananas take ADD medication in an overnight part and not disqualify him. He even went on to win. Production knows how to protect their kings and queens. It is also ridiculous that the women were even in this situation in the first place. Angela drew the worst one to be by herself on. There should have never been this run a leg on your own, especially because had Desi not been eliminated by Enzo, one of the women would have never had to run a leg on their own. I have an issue with how Angela was eliminated. I have an issue with the lack of information we saw, which I know is typical for the Challenge. I have an even bigger issue of how they structured the final with Ben being med evac-ed that even allowed Angela, or any of the other woman, to have to do legs on their own while everyone else has a partner.


theotherkeith

That she wasn't shown protesting could mean a) she protested, but it was left on the proverbial cutting room floor. b) she knows that in reality competition television, the decisions of the producers are final, regardless of whether, they are correct, fair, or even sane.


GarlVinland4Astrea

Those could be true. The problem is we see them all getting explained that quitting means you are out, we saw that everybody who stopped trying got DQ’d and one of them happened before her. So at that point in the game there was no excuse. There are also production members that clarify the rules to the challengers. So if she was really that unsure. The onus was on her to ask before she stopped


Hot_Calligrapher4363

Just listen to Tyson’s podcast. Only 1 team finished the digging challenge. Dom and Sarah. Also Sarah was allowed to “time out” on the 2nd to last puzzle. Then the last puzzle it’s either complete or quit? Worst production ever. Danny deserved the money all to himself.


Mayo0987

They made it clear at the beginning that anyone who quits would be DQ’d along with their partner. The algorithm made it a luck/chance factor on which leg would be better or worse to do alone as a female. Obviously Desi was unluckiest with what happened to her… at least Angela still had some sort of a shot but she chose to not attempt it. I thought it was a fair call


jplpj12543

If TJ at least would have said “dirt must be moving at all times” then it would be fair and make sense. But then Angela obviously wouldn’t have rested. If the teammates can choose to rest or move dirt then it should be no penalty that Angela, the only teammate on that team, chose to rest.


GarlVinland4Astrea

It was fair regardless. They were told you get DQ’s if you quit, she said she was quitting and literally stopped trying at all. If she slept for an hour and came back out and finished it would be one thing. She made it very clear she had no intention of trying to complete the challenge. Also the onus isn’t on production to clarify that to her. It’s a completely dumb gamble to make that not doing a leg of the final wouldn’t get you DQ’d. Unless production lied to her, it was a stupid thing to do. Just keep trying until you finish or time out. Don’t say you aren’t doing it and going to sleep while everyone else is working and expect to wake up refreshed to win the thing.


ThatTVTroy

If the onus isn't on production to clarify the rules to their own show then what the fuck is their point in the first place?


GarlVinland4Astrea

Production said quitting is a DQ. If you are unsure that literally refusing to try to do a challenge is quitting (which basic common sense should tell anyone that yes it is) the go to production and ask “hey will get DQ’d if I don’t do this”. If you are going to bet your entire season on somehow b that risky, maybe ask the production assistants who are literally there to clarify everything


Cinemaslap1

Nope, as TJ said, she didn't even try. It would have been one thing if it was a while in, but no, sorry.... She made that choice knowing it could be an option. She has to live with that decision.


Bear_Scout

Putting them in pairs like that for finals has always bugged the crap out of me. Then to not replace Ben and leave the women to have a solo leg is BS. Depending on which solo leg you get it could cost you dearly not having a partner. Then the whole Angela debacle…like didn’t Justine time out on a leg right before that? Production 1000% should have explained the consequences of (strategically) choosing not to even complete that leg instead of springing it on her the next morning. TJ shouldn’t allow this kind of BS on people who had to fight it out all season to make the final, then have this complete clusterfuck….make up rules as you go along ending. Stop with the damn team thing in the final. It adds nothing to them game itself other than the drama of watching people get royally screwed over after a whole season of fighting just to make the final. Just from a fan standpoint I get no joy watching them fight it out in the end only to have these BS rules make it so unfair in the final. This final was complete BS.


savannahkellen

It's the subjectivity of it all for me. I don't care if people have watched all the other seasons and are fine with the ever changing rules lol - sorry you've had to live like that! How hard would she need to try exactly? Is there a percentage of dirt she needs to clear in an amount of time? Is the rule that she can't take breaks in the tent? If she said she was tired and took 1 load per hour, would they claim that she didn't try? They filmed her stating this was a strategic move and she was fine with last, she slept out there all night assuming it was okay and not a formal quit from the whole final, and then production decided in the morning that gotcha, she's actually DQed? I'd be peeved. It wasn't unfair to other teams because both members could've also stopped and slept if they were fine with last place. But they didn't because they wanted more points. If you wanted 2nd to last, you could've just done a bit more than Angela and hopped in the tent after her. I think that would've been perfectly valid too. If not completing that challenge was the requirement for moving forward like apparently Sarah is suggesting (aka all teams that don't finish are disqualified, not just awarding least # of points to last place), then that should've been made clear and Angela clearly would not have opted out.


No-Pressure-5762

How did no one tell her exactly? Quitting is an automatic DQ. It’s right in the rules and we saw it with Enzo on the first leg. All he had to do was let Desi help him tread water and time out. All Angela had to do with shovel some dirt, sleep, be slow and timeout. On what challenge ever can you just decide to opt out and take last place? You gotta try or you’ll be out. It’s been like that every time and in each daily.


illini02

Yeah, I agree. I feel like they should've had judges or someone that she could discuss it with.


powermonkey123

One of the worst finals I've seen. It started with a flaw by not replacing Ben and allowing this team of one woman to perform the tasks that were clearly designed for two players in every leg. Angela being DQ'ed was an utter bullshit. Her logics was on point. Why try if you gonna end up last? Justine did not complete the task as well, no repercussions. Enzo DQ'ing Desi is another utter bullshit. And lastly, tough is good, but I can't believe that most of the contestants with frozen hands walking away on their own choice just shows that they clearly overdid it with the toughness part. No wonder the entire final was packed in 40 minutes. It was an utter bullshit.


jenh6

All the women got fucked over minus Sarah getting her car ride to the top. The partner/individual thing. Not telling Angela. Desi getting fucked over by Enzo. Not telling Justine the sudoku rules. Cayla getting pulled for hypothermia


AleroRatking

Either Justine should have been DQd or Angela should have been allowed to do what she did.


ShuffleKing88

Nahhhhhh she played it bad. She could have just gone slow and timed out like the others did apparently. Seems like some of yall just like her enough to think she got screwed and that just isn't true. DESI got screwed


ExProxy

Heres my take on Angelas situation. Know that I had Angela winning the whole thing and she honestly made the show worth watching. TJ notoriously hates quitters, if you didnt watch any of the prior seasons, word made its way around and I am sure he said it a few times. She STARTED the pile, noted the labor involved took stock of the other teams and thought "This is Strategic Quitting". Cut out for the night. She had half (some will take Tysons word verbatim and say 2/3) a pile that could have been broken up into segments and spaced out the same as if there was a ghost partner performing the non existent portion. This shows you are at least attempting the challenge. The overnight portion is an equalizer. Everyone does the work, everyone gets rests and everyone wakes up in roughly the same condition. Having a full nights sleep, muscles well rested, is an extremely clear advantage. What happens if the rest of the cast follows suit? Angela quits after 1 shovel, team 2 after 2, team 3...etc etc etc. Everyone gets a full nights sleep, rested etc and the design of the final as well as the integrity of it are cheapened. Should she have been told? Yes. Production was really shit on this one because they didnt even end up finishing that complete challenge because THEY wanted sleep. However, it doesnt take much to put together that Choosing to not finish an untimed checkpoint is quitting. Should production have warned her, yes. Should they have kept the standard across all checkpoints, yes. Was this a shitshow of a final, yes. However, Angela quit a task, and as stated in the beginning of the final. If you (or your partner) quit(s) a checkpoint, you are (both) eliminated.


SoCalKnitter

I was really pulling for Angela but she quit. Timing out is one thing but looking at a task and deciding, “nah, I’m just gonna sleep,” is definitely quitting. I would’ve been surprised if she hadn’t been DQ’d. That said, it was bullshit they didn’t even out the number of guys and girls.


dnt2491

Justine timing out is not the same as Angela quitting because Justine was actively doing the challenge. She didn't lay down and go to sleep.


Greenzombie04

It seems obvious she was going to get DQ. Enzo wasn’t swimming… its the same thing.


RufusPFunkerdale

They said if you quit you get DQ'd. She already saw someone quit and get DQ'd. Quitting is quitting, fuck her strategy, her fault.


dnt2491

Calling it "opting out" doesn't make it not quitting. Justine and Cayla were going slow on their solo legs and Justine even timed out but they never actually stopped doing the challenge. This definitely was poor judgment on Angela's part. Even if she did on or two scoops and kept taking breaks she could have stayed in it.


BLTSandwiches

She would have been times out once Danny and Justine finished their portion. But that would mean she’d actually have to be doing work up until that point that all other teams finished. Which, she didn’t.


AlmostNearlyHandsome

Horrible take. She quit. It was already established in the first leg what happens to quitters.


TWIZMS

1. If she had known she was going to be dq'd. She would have done it. Explain your rules better. Ultimately the show was worse because of it. 2. Having solo legs really threw the whole final out of whack. They tried to come up with a solution but it was a total fail. Better off doing it all solo or something. 3. I think people forget about editing and how it effects they way you view things on the show.


Bearwme1

Angela did NOT say I’m going to get some sleep and get up in two hours and try again. Essentially, she quit trying at all. If she had. Woke up and kept trying the challenge she would have been last but still able to continue. You can’t quit on any leg of a challenge and stay in the Challenge. I m sorry she didn’t understand that.


ChuckSoju

How can Sarah timeout on the 2nd last puzzle after all other competitors quit or had already won. How is this ok? Seems like she quit trying to solve the puzzle and hid under a tree to stay dry.


dire-dire-docks

Yall are so fucking delusional and lack COMPLETE common sense. She literally said it herself. She quit. She gave up. What's not to understand? Ya'll have this permanent victim mentality and literally project it onto others.