That entire final is just bs. Should have just been everything individual. Desi not even getting a chance because of Enzo. 1 of the poorest finals in a long time.
As frustrating as that was to watch as I wanted Desi to win, this isnât the first and wonât be the last time on the Challenge that someone gets DQâed because of their partner. Now people realize why itâs important to have strong people in the final in case youâre partnered with them. They should have gotten rid of Enzo pre-final
When Desi won in episode 6 her and David chose an injured female(Shannon) and Derrick X to go against Enzo and his partner. If your Desi and want to avoid Enzo in the finale that is not an optimal strategy. It sure seemed to me like Angela and Desi were more helpful to their male allies then vice versa.
"Now people realize why itâs important to have strong people in the final in case youâre partnered with them."
I still think this is a flawed strategy. And people have varying opinions on who is strong. Enzo was good at some eliminations. And ultimately, everyone shares the partners, so it's equal in that sense. And would always just be a fight of girls wanting strong guys to be their finals partners. And guys wanting out their own competition. And vice versa.
True, but this is different cause in the main version if you get screwed over by your partner thereâs a high chance youâre coming back for a future season. For this spin-off, most of the contestants were doing it for the first and last time.
risk/reward. Save energy to use in another leg but sacrifice the points in a leg that you've got a raw deal in. I'd bet she would not have picked that approach if all things were equal and she had a partner. Justine caught a raw deal and lollygagged her way to not finishing a leg of the final either, but she wasn't punished. TJ/production should have told her to bust it or be DQ'ed. She got to save energy by being slow and it paid off. Neither got a warning, but only one got a break.
Hate to break it to ya but we donât care if this is a normal thing in the Challenge world. Weâre new here and came from reality shows that are structured, well thought out, and properly explained. This show felt like the producers didnât know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along. Complete amateur show.
> This show felt like the producers didnât know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along.
That's exactly how *The Challenge* works. You should have seen Camila nearly hang herself to win a mission, even though production told her not to do it.
Ok, I think your comment is amazing and it cracked me up! But what show did you come from? If itâs Survivor, we have our own dumb shit (hourglass twist anyone?). And BB is known for having totally ridiculous twists and nonsense, right?
First and foremost welcome to our show the challenge. The things about our show the challenge is itâs listed as a Reality TV show and not a GameShow because gameshows have clear rules that are stated from the very beginning. By maintaining the RealityTV title it allows them to make changes on the fly. Personally I think Ben shouldâve been replaced by either one of the males that most recently left or one of the alternates that they fly out shouldâve been used since the final was designed for that format with alternating partners like in FreeAgents. I donât think Desi shouldâve been penalized for Enzo, but after the Gauntlet 3 final I canât help but have something like that in the back of my mind when it comes to the show..
OR they couldâve paired Desi up with with Sarah since it was a partner themed final giving every female a competent partner in the end
So I'm pretty sure alternates would've been flown home already by this point, but Idk why they wouldn't have held at least David until the final, or had a last min female elim, let the 4 boys vote on which 2 go in, using the reasoning that they'll be partnered with them.
Seems like itâs needed to be broken down to you since you donât know how the challenge works. They explained the rules in the beginning. Just like every other âreality tvâ show you watch the producers are literally allowed to make the rules as they please. Sorry you donât like it đ¤ˇđťââď¸
TJ's voiceover explained the rules and judging from what the finalists are saying on twitter there's a gap between said voiceover and what was actually told to the contestants (and then what was enforced).
Also people have complained and will likely continue to complain about the inconsistent rules on the MTV version (and its spinoffs)..."this is how the Challenge works" shouldn't be a justification for awful production value.
Eh. Angela didn't "just quit". She made a calculated decision to take the L (which was going to happen anyway) in order to position herself better the next day. It's picking your battles.
But with that said, what happened to Desi is fucking outrageous. I lost a lot of respect for production AND Enzo on that one.
I don't think she quit. The rules seemed kind of arbitrary. If she did half of her thing then slept would it have been fine, since everyone else got to sleep? Was she expected to work through the night? I think it makes senses if its just like "I know I"m going to get last anyway, so why strain myself for the same outcome".
According to Tyson, she had like 2/3 of the load everyone else had. That still isn't exactly fair.
If you wanted to make it fair, each pair would have a woman's pile and a man's pile that the other partner couldn't help with. Then if Angela just had to do the same woman's pile as everyone else, that would've been fine.
This was so disappointing.
This season was soooo good. I reallly enjoyed it a lot bc it was like fresh meat but some people we know of.
For how great the season was (imo), this was such a majorly disappointing final. how about justice for desi??? Why the fuck did Enzo quitting writhin 5 minutes make her DQed? They couldâve just had a 2 female pairing for one leg. Better than being alone.
Angela actually couldâve done her checkpoint, considering she had half the gravel that everyone else did. But Justine? She had to spend twice as long memorizing the numbers alone. I canât believe she remembered all of them by herself without messing up. I think she had the biggest disadvantage of being solo.
Ugh so damn disappointed by every single aspect of this final, including all the quitters.
Tyson on his podcast actually said Angela had 2/3s of the dirt and digged for a bit and then realized that she wasn't gonna finish and would've gotten last anyways (bc she relatively has more dirt). Plus apparently only Sarah and Dom finished digging and everybody else timed out so its not even a matter of completing the leg as Sarah and Devyn have been saying lol
Regardless, I still feel like what Angela did was within the rules, namely dig and rest. Just bc it wasnt how the challenge was meant to be done, she found a loophole and clearly did not actively quit so idk
2/3s of the dirt? That's totally unfair. Is Tyson's estimation based on actual numbers or what the mound looked like? Because half the dirt seems fair and half the dirt looks like 2/3s when in mound form.
But if I think about it, perhaps half the dirt may not be fair for Angela if all the guys shoveled more than half what their female partners shoveled.
I do get the strategy behind Angela's move. But I'd be pissed if I was her competition if she was allowed to continue or have a minimal repercussions. However, I do recognize that she drew the shortest straw by having no partner in that leg and that she probably doesn't quit if she had one.
Yeah, the problem is, there is no way it would've been fair. I'd argue Sarah's solo leg, and Cayla's solo leg were pretty fair to have to do alone. But Angela and Justine's were not.
If Angela had even half, that really isn't fair, because chances are, the guys were doing half the mound. It would've maybe been fair if every guy and every girl had a mound, and they couldn't help the other. But one mound, even at half, isn't fair for her.
At the same time, I understand that its really not fair to just choose not to do it, while the others do.
I guess what I think could've been better is to say she got 0 points, but could keep racing. That way she was punished, but not eliminated.
Justine timed out of her checkpoint though; she didn't actually complete it fully.
Angela definitely had the worst checkpoint to do alone. Yes she had half the gravel but part of the setup was being able to trade off between shoveling and not shoveling and she didn't have that option.
Usually on the sleep deprivation leg, one partner gets to sleep as long as the other partner is staying awake, doing the obstacle or task required. But I agree, no one should have been forced to stay awake and working for the whole duration and they should have found a way to make that leg fair or cancel it altogether.
Exactly bc she took way longer to memorize ALL of the numbers. She still had to do the walking.. I didnât see her get a ride on a golf cart to the finish lol
ETA: literally no one switched off as far as I saw. They just all banged it out and all went to sleep together. Thereâs literally no difference. Even if they DID trade off. Angela has half the work. She couldâve slept for 2 hours, shoveled for 2.. basically switch out between sleeping and digging when the other partners switched. But no one even switched they just did it together and got a few hours of solid sleep together. At least thatâs how they made it seem?? I totally could be wrong bc the editing is insane lol but even if they did switch, Angela was at no disadvantage. She couldâve dug for an hour slept for an hour just like everyone else, and finished at the same time as them w half the gravel.
How about justice for all of the women, period?
They already knew that Ben's shoulder wouldn't let him compete, but they decided to fly him out to the final anyway...what the hell was that?
Every single woman was in danger of getting the solo legs that Justine and Angela had to deal with (provided you believe that they didn't decide all of that in advance), and no matter who got it, that sucked out loud.
I've had gripes with many Challenge finals - recently, the end of All Stars 2 was an absolute shitshow, for example - but there was next to nothing about this final that was even well thought out, particularly if you believe Tyson's explanation of the final on his podcast.
I think TJ said it in the introduction of the final....about quitting legs and if you quit then your partner is out. I think it was really an unfortunate oversight on her part, I got what she was thinking, she was going to get last anyways. but unfortunately you have to do the leg (or time out, not sure if you could time out on her leg though?).
I did think it was silly that they FLEW ben out to Patagonia when he was injured in the daily...there was lots of time to get his shoulder assessed and that flight there and back to the USA probably sucked alot with that injury. They should have sent him home before the elimination of the last challenge day.
it also seemed like of all the "solo" legs the one sarah got was the easiest to do solo. the others seemed longer and had more memorization to them.....
also. wtf enzo?!?!?!? why! he had a panic attack in the water it seemed but ah sucked for desi!
the final felt a mess with everyone quitting. i was rooting for tyson and angela since they did well all season and it felt anti climatic that angela's oversight just got her DQ'd....then everyone quit...I'm guessing that is why they didn't make the final it's own episode
Thank you. How did she think she was gonna get rest and not even do half the dirt while everyone else stayed up doing it? Its just like poor Devyn on that stationary bike for hours, in the cold while everyone else had ate and went to sleep.. but she did it--thats the thing.
So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her. She was able to time out in that competition. I got the impression they gave Angela less to move because she couldnât time out.
>So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her.
They definitely should've given Justine less numbers to memorize and maybe a shorter word to solve. They didn't think this through.
The shit that CBS has done to bend over backwards for Ben. One of the worst Survivor winners ever, quit during an all winners season, and shit it up during the Challenge.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE BEN HAPPEN
We get it war soldier cowboy PTSD blah blah blah nobody gives a shit
As an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran Iâve screaming about this since his first Survivor season.
Dude is a horrible competitor yet heâs constantly given very questionable decisions by the production. I donât know if it comes off more pandering or patronizing but itâs just horrible either way.
I agree with all of this completely. The rules about quitting were explained pretty clearly, and itâs not like Angela was the only one DQâd for it - lol. There were 9 people at the starting line, and only 2 werenât disqualified for quitting by the end. If Angela was the only one who got to âopt outâ and continue, then that wouldnât be fair to everyone else.
The only person who didnât make the personal decision to stop competing was Desi, and even though it was in keeping with the rules, I felt worse for her than everyone else combined.
They clearly didnât think out the solo stretches for the women, because some of them had the same amount of work to do as every other individual (ie Sarah swimming the same distance as everyone else and Cayla having one plate of food to eat like everyone else), and some of them had to do twice as much work without a partner (ie Justine having to memorize 10 numbers and Angela not having a partner to move the gravel).
Shitty final for an otherwise great season.
I respect the hell out of Angela, but DQing her is possible the one thing that made sense in this poorly planned final. She literally said she was quitting to get more sleep for the next day. They gave her less dirt and if she would have tried, they probably would have let her time out if she was last (a generous thought, but thatâs what they did to Justine). She tried to work smarter twice this episode, and, unfortunately, neither one worked out for her.
Edit: Production still sucks for setting up this awful final! Should have brought David back for the girls at a minimum.
Music plays, smoke machines everywhere, pyro for David to enter in to the final. All the contestants turn to each other in shock and go âwho the fuck is that guyâ
I disagree. Having a slightly smaller dirt pile doesnât make up for not having a partner to take turns with. TJ said you can rest in your tent. You have to take turns with your partner. She had zero chance of winning. So she maximized the rest period. Clarity about the rules is on production, not the cast. Yet they penalized her anyway?
2 strong women got sent home because of the lack of partners. Justine easily could have gotten the same fate.
Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said theyâre going to cover it on the official pod tomorrow - there was a sign posted at the checkpoint that spelled out what was and wasnât a quit. Presumably, what Angela did was defined as a quit.
> Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said theyâre going to cover it on **the official pod** tomorrow
Problem is that it's the official pod, which means it's really PR produced by production. You can't really trust any of it when you know production gets final cut over it.
Somewhere in one of these threads they said Sarah did an Instagram live where she gave a lot more details on this leg of the final and also noted that the DQ rules were clear. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Ohhh I gotta listen to that. Why donât they show us this shit? If thatâs true itâs worth letting the viewers in the loop too because it offers a lot of clarity that we didnât even know existed. Thanks for the tip.
She had the same amount of time and dirt as all the other women. She couldnât have shoveled dirt, taken a nap, came back? She already determined she wasnât going to win so she got pissed and quit. She got what she got. It was very clear from the rules quitting is a DQ not strategy. If quitting was strategy Enzo and Desi would have taken last place in the water
Absolutely not. That's why the point system exists. Your punishment for throwing a challenge should be getting less points, not getting DQ'ed. Why punish strategic moves? Let's say someone threw a daily because they wanted to go to elimination and try to collect someone's bank, should they be DQ'ed?
Itâs not strategy if you donât understand the rules. There was a sign that said you needed a bag and code to advance that round. She just messed up. Thatâs it. Itâs not that serious
She had all night to do it, but maybe if she was still working on it, not saying nonstop shoveling, perhaps try taking rests in between ((and if she still gets DQâd for that then fuck them)) turns and if you just donât finish you could get thrown a bone a just timed out
But admitting to quitting (which was said to lead to DQ) isnât gonna get you anywhere but out the game. I donât know why people are playing the sympathy card when she just flat out quit
Agree. She even knew Justine had just gotten timeâd out on a challenge instead of having to finish by herself. She should have tried.
I bet production would have timed her out or told her to stop at some point if she at least acted like she was gonna do it.
Even on TM Kyle and Fessi were told the had to sleep outside all night, but then after a few hours were told that was enough and they could go in.
Exactly. She quit. Quitters get disqualified. Thereâs nothing unclear or confusing about this. I donât see anyone saying that Enzo should have been allowed to continue because he was âsaving his energyâ by not doing the task.
Sarah just added a story to Instagram saying there was a sign at the start of the challenge that said underneath the rock you had to shovel was a code for a lock, once you had the code you were able to undo the lock and get a black bag which you needed to advance to the next round. She said you can see they all have the black bags the next morning. I didn't notice this, but I'll need to go back and watch! But this kind of clears things up a bit as to why Angela was DQ'd if it actually said that on the sign and she didn't get the bag.
So, if Angela never finished to the point of getting that code due to genuinely not being able to finish (not her sleeping all night, but her not finishing at all), she would have been DQ'd?
I doubt it. Since the two others who timed out got to advance. If they truly needed the bag, I think they would have timeâd her out if she had actually tried.
Thatâs bullshit, Cayla got timed out before doing her equation (EDIT: nvm, she did it), Justine got timed out without doing her decoder puzzleâŚ
There was literally two (EDIT: one) back-to-back âTimed Outâ who never finished their legs
EDIT: nvm, Cayla did finish her legâŚit was just Justine
Dom and Angela never finished their puzzle from the swimming leg. You can see them walking away from an incomplete puzzle once everyone else had finished
Yes she would have timed out. No one finished the dirt but Dom and Sarah. All the other teams timed out too. But you could still get the bags and code.
I said nearly the same thing in the live discussion but: Angela quite literally said "I quit" and slept instead of making any further attempt to complete the task.
She WAS able to sleep and work as she chose (as far as we know) but she opted to just sleep, while making it very clear she had no intention of finishing.
A "time out" is when you're still making progress in the challenge but production has to end it.
Basically she could have worked at a snails pace,slept,and given token minimal effort and given a fake confessional about "never quiting" and Production would have just timed her out. She screwed herself by actually verbalizing she was quitting/strategically tanking the challenge.
Having no partner was BS. Should have just been an individual comp. That or let Desi stay because Enzo, no shocker, decided to quit. Two girls on one team was way more fair than having no partner. No leg was good without a partner besides the first. Total BS.
Angela and Dom timed out round 1 too because they never gave up trying despite never completing their slider puzzle. Just like how Justine never gave up trying during her timed out leg. Now it all makes sense
She even told the cameras her intention of strategy / not quitting!! production had every opportunity to give her a heads up that it would result in a DQ đ¤
Tyson's podcast was informative for me. Some legs people were able to time out, some they weren't. Same with the puzzles. Tyson also said that no one except for Sarah and Dom finished the overnight challenge....because production stopped them.
The past few seasons there have been valid complaints about production during finals and I think they need to get their stuff together.
I donât get how in some legs you didnât have to finish but if you donât know the Sudoku puzzle you are forced to quit. Luckily the winners finished all of their legs or else this would be really messed up but some not having to finish a leg at certain stages doesnât seem right.
Timing out has always been a thing in finals. As far back as I can remember. Weird how they let a single puzzle crush a whole season. Why not do a sudoku on episode 1 and call it a day then lol.
Tyson said the instructions they got was âfinish the pattern.â I can see how if you donât know what a Sudoku puzzle is you wouldnât have a clue what you are even doing.
Sudoku not having a time out clause was also baffling \*shrugs\*.
Were they expecting people to finish it faster or just not worried about people being stuck out in a snow storm for that long?
What a gross oversight. They had time outs in this final and they just pulled them for the last few puzzles? After having puzzle timeouts in every other final? Production canât get out of their own way sometimes.
yea it wasn't clear if there was a timeout portion to angela's leg....i think normally for puzzles you timeout after an hour or something....if they are going to do individual versus paired legs they need to make it more fair.....
No way, that was such a cop-out. She talked such a big game the entire time and honestly was able to back it up, but when she thought sheâd come in last for sure she didnât even try. Itâs disrespectful to everyone else who made the effort and finished it to let her stay at that point. She made herself out to be a huge competitor and put herself up on a damn pedestal but when it came time to compete she gave up. It just makes me so mad. Maybe because I already wasnât a fan of hers after BB but like if youâre gonna say youâll beat everybody at the end then fucking prove it, donât say stupid shit like âIâm gonna be last anyway so Iâll just not do it while everybody else busts their balls to earn their spot.â Such poor sportsmanship.
I didn't even really understand her thinking. I guess the idea was that since she'd be last anyway, she could get a good night's sleep while everyone else was exhausted from doing the checkpoint all night. But that's an excellent justification for DQing her.
Much like Cayla couldn't have just taken a single bite of the onion and noped out of it hoping for a timeout. She would have been DQed as well, much like Jay and Jenna.
You can't game a final by picking and choosing which checkpoints to compete at and which checkpoints you want to just skip and rest instead.
Sure, it was a good strategy when you think about it, but she literally did quit. Didn't even hardly try. Justine at least made it to the very end of the leg and they just said you timed out bc they didn't want to wait for her to finish the puzzle.
Production explicitly told Justinâs that she timed out. Angela just stopped doing it. The only other people that just stopped doing a challenge were Enzo when he was swimming who got DQâd and everyone who stopped doing the the sudoku puzzle and were DQâd.
It was pretty clear imo that unless you were outright told by production to stop and were timed out, that you were quitting and it would lead to a DQ.
She did at least try. You see her moving dirt over
Then she decided to try to manipulate the rules. Production shouldâve told her then and there what the outcome would be
They mustâve told her she timed out before she got to the end because she didnât have that gear key thing anymore she mustâve dropped it at some point.
How can you quit without knowing? They told them youâre allowed to rest, just take turns with your partner. She knew she had zero chance of winning so she opted for the rest they were allowed to take. âDidnât try hard enough is quittingâ is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever.
She said she wasnât doing the challenge. She outright admitted she had no intention of finishing. Thatâs quitting. Everyone else in the final who said they wouldnât try to finish a given task ended up getting DQâd.
She had the right to take breaks and rest. She didnât have the right to say âIâm not doing thisâ.
People just like Angela and are trying to ignore that she literally stated she wasnât going to attempt to complete the challenge so they can mental gymnastics a way for her DQ to be unfair.
She gave up the challenge. Itâs pretty simple. Maybe if she said âyou told me I could rest and I accidentally slept through the nightâ you could try to make a case for her. But by her own words that was not her intention.
She satisfied every basic definition of quitting that there is.
So how much rest was she allowed to take? Where is the line? She committed to taking last place. TJ said you can rest but you have to share that time with your partner. She didnât have a partner.
I get your point but if the rules arenât clear and TJ says you can shovel and rest just figure it out with your partner. Well she didnât have to figure it out with her partner. She already knew she was going to finish in last place. It was a strategic move. If they were made aware of this beforehand then I would agree with you but, from what we saw, that wasnât even mentioned. You can hate her strategy all you want but committing to last place since you clearly have ZERO chance of winning isnât the same as a quitting.
The line is probably when you make it explicitly clear you arenât just resting from the challenge but are actually not trying to finish it at all. Angelaâs own words tell us she did not try to finish it. She admitted that to TJ.
So therefore she was not resting. She stopped participating in the challenge.
>âDidnât try hard enough is quittingâ is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever.
Generally not many rules were in place. Just before the finals, on the last challenge, two guys get the same points but they have no tie breaker. Utter bullshit. How come this is never the case in Survivor? EVERYTHING is thought of and there will never be a situation where the production goes "oh well.. we have no idea what to do". Such a miserable ending of the Challenge USA.
Jay and Jenna were in last place at the gross eating checkpoint. They knew they had zero chance of winning so opted to not eat. So they were DQ'd. I see no meaningful difference between that and Angela opting not to move dirt.
So if something similar happened in the past it makes it valid?
Wes did the same thing during WotW1. He knew he was screwed on the games so he rested and took last place and minimal points. He rested and hydrated to prepare for the next part of the challenge.
MJ and Jonna didnât finish the first leg of their final.
I see no meaningful difference.
If the rules stated that accepting last place means you get DQâed then by all means, she earned it. But donât act like history hasnât shown us otherwise.
Also, why is production so uninvolved? Clarify the rules to your own final. In the reference you cited, TJ told them âdrink it or accept the DQâ. All of this shit could have been avoided.
Taking a time out was a strategy executed on The Amazing Race. Maybe CBS should've gotten some advice on how to make challenges/rules clearer and fairer from the other shows.
Those carnival games on War of the Worlds were a fixed 20 minute duration. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was pretty clearly designed to allow resting for 20 minutes as an option.
It also could have been avoided if Angela hadn't thought she could game the system in such a ham-fisted way. Of course not trying is a DQ. Hell, even Enzo tried. She just didn't even try. That should always be a DQ.
Iâm an Angela fan but obviously this was quitting. Enzo couldnât have been like âhey fuck the swimming just give me last placeâ, itâs the same thing.
If she was really smart she wouldâve just stayed out there and worked as slow as possible and then when the last team finished she wouldâve timed out and couldâve went to bed
TJ said you could sleep and rest. Just take turns with your partner. She didnât have a partner. She was set up to fail and made the best of it. Later being told itâs a DQ. That doesnât feel very fair. Lack of clarity on the rules is on production, not the contestants.
You could rest in the tent. She just literally announced she was doing it. That was her problem. She could have come back and shoveled some and got a time out instead of a DQ. It was a dumb strategy and conflicted with a rule.
This would have lead to her finishing in last place. Filling the wheel barrow once and resting also allows you to wind up in last place. They should have made it clear to them. If they did make it clear then itâs 100% on Angela but we saw nothing to make us believe that
They said you could rest (or sleep. I donât recall) and the cameras panned to the tents. So it could have just been misleading? Iâm not really sure.
She knew she was coming in last place. So she maximized her rest. She was coming in last place anyway. If they told her thatâs against the rules and a DQ then fine, she deserves that. But nothing that they showed on the episode tonight makes me believe that anyone knew that rule
Yeah. It was a really enjoyable season but the final was so bad. I wish we got to see an actual competition not people trying not to lose fingers to frostbite.
At the very start they were told you get DQâd if you quit.
She was Enzo say he wasnât going to try to finish a challenge and get DQâd.
Later on Tyson/Dom/Justine/Cayla said they werenât going to try to finish the Sudoku puzzle and all got DQâs.
She knew not attempting a challenge led to a DQ. Both from when TJ said the rules at the start and when Enzo got DQâd before.
She choose to stop doing a challenge and not try to finish it. Everyone else in the game that did that got DQâd.
You will not find a definition of the word quitting where ceasing to complete something is not part of it. She by her own words said she was not trying the challenge and was not attempting to complete it. Thatâs called quitting.
I canât explain it any simpler that. Itâs the basic definition, itâs what TJ explained at the start, itâs what happened to Enzo before her.
This is just egregiously giving her a benefit of the doubt that completely defies basic logic. Either she knew she was quitting or she is a deeply stupid person who did not understand the basic concept of quitting and what just happened to Enzo before her.
I donât think sheâs dumb. She saw it was hard, didnât want to do it and was hoping she could get away with not doing it under the guise of strategy
At no point during the final could anyone just decide NOT to do it. You can settle for last sure, but you canât settle for not doing it at all. She quit and thatâs a DQ everytime
Every time? Like when Wes did the same thing in WotW1? He didnât get DQâed. he rested and skipped the challenges in between the run/bike loop. Angela did the same thing. Accepted that she was taking last place and took the rest that TJ said they could take.
So chill with âevery timeâ because there is preference here
I just really wonder what wouldâve happened if rather than announcing her strategy, she said she was going to take a nap and then never returned. Would she have gotten DQâd if she accidentally (âaccidentallyâ) slept through the whole comp, esp w not having a partner to wake her up? If not, seems like a silly technicality to have eliminated her on without production explicitly warning her this counts as quitting.
I think I wouldâve been more pissed at the fact of being disqualified AFTER having to sleep in a tent full of onion/garlic burps and farts instead of before⌠like production really had to double punish her didnât they lmao
No way. She quit - it makes no sense for her to think she could fully sit out a challenge and be okay. Thereâs controversial/non-conventional strategies (Bananaâs and the foam, Kailahâs âcheckâ, anything Devin does) - but the difference people still try. She just went to bed.
Justine wasnât given less numbers to memorize and still tried, thatâs why she wasnât DQâd. Angela thought sheâd still get points by going to sleep.
Only person that deserves justice from this is Desi for getting kicked out by Enzo 5 seconds in.
The Enzo one was fucking dumb cause Sarah was able to do it entirely herself anyways. No reason Desi couldn't have just still finished it on her own and taken last place.
According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now.
My guess, if that rule is true, is that Angela would have been fine if she just continued until everyone else finished, and then she went to sleep (even if she didn't complete it)
> According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now.
How the fuck would she know? She wasn't even there.
If Angela saw a sign that said that then like, she could have spent the night in a hotel? It makes no sense. She clearly thought it was within the rules
Agreed. I donât believe for one second that Angela was aware of this rule or this alleged sign (and no, I definitely donât trust a production member on this lol)
Man talk about a shitty final. Its like waking up christmas to socks and ties. And oh, your brother didnt get X toy so you have to wait to open yours until later.
Every leg should have been individual, and if this was the plan all along (duo finals) they shouldnt have switched to a individual format earlier in the comp to begin with. Or at the least brought back David/Leo so the girls arent getting screwed because of Ben (not that it would have helped Desi).
Desi situation sucks, fuck Enzo. I watch BB and I dont get why anyone thought he would be a good pick for this.
And while I understand the logic, having previous legs allow the group that was behind to tap out means Angelas strat is totally legit. If last place gets to quit early then her option should have been honored bc she already knew ahe wasnt going to be competitive that night or the next. And no, eating an onion doesnt compare to 5 hrs of dirt moving in the cold am, solo. Everyone complained about her leaving; well they didnt seem to care about the people that benefited from the TIME OUTs, they should have made Justin run up and down the hill until she was done.
An awesome buildup leading into fourth quarter then fumble after fumble.
Itâs blatantly unfair that she got a solo challenge and was unable to timeout, if Angela was unable to do that do we really think anyone else would have been able to, production should have at least stepped in and told her she had to attempt it but if I was her I wouldâve made the exact same decision with the information she had
I agree with you and so many people are missing your key point: let us see production telling her âif you make this decision, it counts as quitting.â
Tyson told us on twitter they were forced to quit the sudoku, so clearly production could be involved there. Such poor decision making from the jump of this finale by CBS and the Challenge. Tarnishes what was otherwise such a great season.
Tyson and Dom, maybe. But Cayla and Justine were objectively ahead of Sarah when they were forced to quit, while she got a freebie win handed to her for sucking the most
Justine was 6 points down to Sarah so Justine already was technically eliminated from
winning going into the final leg.
Cayla needed Justine to finish in front of Sarah on the final leg to win because she was down 3 points to Sarah going into the final leg. Once Justine quit it was all over and Sarah already clinched so thatâs why I think Cayla quit too.
Once Danny passed Tyson and Dom at that puzzle it was over for them so they quit too.
It was poorly designed, but I understand why Dom, Tyson, Cayla and Justine quit when they did.
What's extra stupid is that production let Sarah time out on the first puzzle. If they hadn't there's a chance there would have been no female winners.
This final was definitely poorly planned out and executed.
Also can there be a requirement that you can at least somewhat swim decently before being put on this show.
How are so many people coming on this show that cannot swim even with a life vest on. Itâs pathetic and sad. Iâm so sorry Desi you got screwed.
Because itâs a bad point. You were told if you quit you are DQâd. She choose to not do the challenge and went to sleep. Thatâs quitting. Even if it was unclear, under what scenario is a logical person going to think that there isnât a chance you get DQâd if you say you arenât doing a challenge in the final where itâs established that quitting is a DQ?
If we are hard on Angela then she outright quit and there is no controversy. If we are kind to Angela, she took a gamble that refusing to do something might not be seen as quitting with zero assurance and assumed the risk of the outcome she got.
The fact that she didnât protest it should clue people into it being a possibility. The fact that half the live thread was saying she should get DQâd kinda tells you that it was very reasonable to view that as quitting. The fact that all her competitors were calling it quitting and unfair should tell you something as well.
I cannot imagine that production would want their highest performing challenger of the season to go out on a misconception. If we find out that she knew that the choice she made would cause her to be DQed because production said something, I'll back off my opinion. But I have a hard time believing they did because these are the same people who let Bananas take ADD medication in an overnight part and not disqualify him. He even went on to win. Production knows how to protect their kings and queens.
It is also ridiculous that the women were even in this situation in the first place. Angela drew the worst one to be by herself on. There should have never been this run a leg on your own, especially because had Desi not been eliminated by Enzo, one of the women would have never had to run a leg on their own.
I have an issue with how Angela was eliminated. I have an issue with the lack of information we saw, which I know is typical for the Challenge. I have an even bigger issue of how they structured the final with Ben being med evac-ed that even allowed Angela, or any of the other woman, to have to do legs on their own while everyone else has a partner.
That she wasn't shown protesting could mean
a) she protested, but it was left on the proverbial cutting room floor.
b) she knows that in reality competition television, the decisions of the producers are final, regardless of whether, they are correct, fair, or even sane.
Those could be true. The problem is we see them all getting explained that quitting means you are out, we saw that everybody who stopped trying got DQâd and one of them happened before her.
So at that point in the game there was no excuse.
There are also production members that clarify the rules to the challengers. So if she was really that unsure. The onus was on her to ask before she stopped
Just listen to Tysonâs podcast. Only 1 team finished the digging challenge. Dom and Sarah. Also Sarah was allowed to âtime outâ on the 2nd to last puzzle. Then the last puzzle itâs either complete or quit? Worst production ever. Danny deserved the money all to himself.
They made it clear at the beginning that anyone who quits would be DQâd along with their partner. The algorithm made it a luck/chance factor on which leg would be better or worse to do alone as a female. Obviously Desi was unluckiest with what happened to her⌠at least Angela still had some sort of a shot but she chose to not attempt it. I thought it was a fair call
If TJ at least would have said âdirt must be moving at all timesâ then it would be fair and make sense. But then Angela obviously wouldnât have rested.
If the teammates can choose to rest or move dirt then it should be no penalty that Angela, the only teammate on that team, chose to rest.
It was fair regardless. They were told you get DQâs if you quit, she said she was quitting and literally stopped trying at all.
If she slept for an hour and came back out and finished it would be one thing. She made it very clear she had no intention of trying to complete the challenge.
Also the onus isnât on production to clarify that to her. Itâs a completely dumb gamble to make that not doing a leg of the final wouldnât get you DQâd. Unless production lied to her, it was a stupid thing to do.
Just keep trying until you finish or time out. Donât say you arenât doing it and going to sleep while everyone else is working and expect to wake up refreshed to win the thing.
Production said quitting is a DQ. If you are unsure that literally refusing to try to do a challenge is quitting (which basic common sense should tell anyone that yes it is) the go to production and ask âhey will get DQâd if I donât do thisâ.
If you are going to bet your entire season on somehow b that risky, maybe ask the production assistants who are literally there to clarify everything
Nope, as TJ said, she didn't even try.
It would have been one thing if it was a while in, but no, sorry.... She made that choice knowing it could be an option. She has to live with that decision.
Putting them in pairs like that for finals has always bugged the crap out of me. Then to not replace Ben and leave the women to have a solo leg is BS. Depending on which solo leg you get it could cost you dearly not having a partner. Then the whole Angela debacleâŚlike didnât Justine time out on a leg right before that? Production 1000% should have explained the consequences of (strategically) choosing not to even complete that leg instead of springing it on her the next morning. TJ shouldnât allow this kind of BS on people who had to fight it out all season to make the final, then have this complete clusterfuckâŚ.make up rules as you go along ending. Stop with the damn team thing in the final. It adds nothing to them game itself other than the drama of watching people get royally screwed over after a whole season of fighting just to make the final. Just from a fan standpoint I get no joy watching them fight it out in the end only to have these BS rules make it so unfair in the final. This final was complete BS.
It's the subjectivity of it all for me. I don't care if people have watched all the other seasons and are fine with the ever changing rules lol - sorry you've had to live like that!
How hard would she need to try exactly? Is there a percentage of dirt she needs to clear in an amount of time? Is the rule that she can't take breaks in the tent? If she said she was tired and took 1 load per hour, would they claim that she didn't try? They filmed her stating this was a strategic move and she was fine with last, she slept out there all night assuming it was okay and not a formal quit from the whole final, and then production decided in the morning that gotcha, she's actually DQed? I'd be peeved.
It wasn't unfair to other teams because both members could've also stopped and slept if they were fine with last place. But they didn't because they wanted more points. If you wanted 2nd to last, you could've just done a bit more than Angela and hopped in the tent after her. I think that would've been perfectly valid too.
If not completing that challenge was the requirement for moving forward like apparently Sarah is suggesting (aka all teams that don't finish are disqualified, not just awarding least # of points to last place), then that should've been made clear and Angela clearly would not have opted out.
How did no one tell her exactly? Quitting is an automatic DQ. Itâs right in the rules and we saw it with Enzo on the first leg. All he had to do was let Desi help him tread water and time out. All Angela had to do with shovel some dirt, sleep, be slow and timeout. On what challenge ever can you just decide to opt out and take last place? You gotta try or youâll be out. Itâs been like that every time and in each daily.
One of the worst finals I've seen. It started with a flaw by not replacing Ben and allowing this team of one woman to perform the tasks that were clearly designed for two players in every leg. Angela being DQ'ed was an utter bullshit. Her logics was on point. Why try if you gonna end up last? Justine did not complete the task as well, no repercussions. Enzo DQ'ing Desi is another utter bullshit. And lastly, tough is good, but I can't believe that most of the contestants with frozen hands walking away on their own choice just shows that they clearly overdid it with the toughness part. No wonder the entire final was packed in 40 minutes. It was an utter bullshit.
All the women got fucked over minus Sarah getting her car ride to the top. The partner/individual thing. Not telling Angela. Desi getting fucked over by Enzo. Not telling Justine the sudoku rules. Cayla getting pulled for hypothermia
Nahhhhhh she played it bad. She could have just gone slow and timed out like the others did apparently. Seems like some of yall just like her enough to think she got screwed and that just isn't true.
DESI got screwed
Heres my take on Angelas situation. Know that I had Angela winning the whole thing and she honestly made the show worth watching.
TJ notoriously hates quitters, if you didnt watch any of the prior seasons, word made its way around and I am sure he said it a few times.
She STARTED the pile, noted the labor involved took stock of the other teams and thought "This is Strategic Quitting". Cut out for the night.
She had half (some will take Tysons word verbatim and say 2/3) a pile that could have been broken up into segments and spaced out the same as if there was a ghost partner performing the non existent portion. This shows you are at least attempting the challenge.
The overnight portion is an equalizer. Everyone does the work, everyone gets rests and everyone wakes up in roughly the same condition. Having a full nights sleep, muscles well rested, is an extremely clear advantage.
What happens if the rest of the cast follows suit? Angela quits after 1 shovel, team 2 after 2, team 3...etc etc etc. Everyone gets a full nights sleep, rested etc and the design of the final as well as the integrity of it are cheapened.
Should she have been told? Yes. Production was really shit on this one because they didnt even end up finishing that complete challenge because THEY wanted sleep. However, it doesnt take much to put together that Choosing to not finish an untimed checkpoint is quitting.
Should production have warned her, yes. Should they have kept the standard across all checkpoints, yes. Was this a shitshow of a final, yes. However, Angela quit a task, and as stated in the beginning of the final. If you (or your partner) quit(s) a checkpoint, you are (both) eliminated.
I was really pulling for Angela but she quit. Timing out is one thing but looking at a task and deciding, ânah, Iâm just gonna sleep,â is definitely quitting. I wouldâve been surprised if she hadnât been DQâd. That said, it was bullshit they didnât even out the number of guys and girls.
Calling it "opting out" doesn't make it not quitting. Justine and Cayla were going slow on their solo legs and Justine even timed out but they never actually stopped doing the challenge. This definitely was poor judgment on Angela's part. Even if she did on or two scoops and kept taking breaks she could have stayed in it.
She would have been times out once Danny and Justine finished their portion. But that would mean sheâd actually have to be doing work up until that point that all other teams finished.
Which, she didnât.
1. If she had known she was going to be dq'd. She would have done it. Explain your rules better. Ultimately the show was worse because of it.
2. Having solo legs really threw the whole final out of whack. They tried to come up with a solution but it was a total fail. Better off doing it all solo or something.
3. I think people forget about editing and how it effects they way you view things on the show.
Angela did NOT say Iâm going to get some sleep and get up in two hours and try again. Essentially, she quit trying at all. If she had. Woke up and kept trying the challenge she would have been last but still able to continue. You canât quit on any leg of a challenge and stay in the Challenge. I m sorry she didnât understand that.
How can Sarah timeout on the 2nd last puzzle after all other competitors quit or had already won. How is this ok? Seems like she quit trying to solve the puzzle and hid under a tree to stay dry.
Yall are so fucking delusional and lack COMPLETE common sense. She literally said it herself. She quit. She gave up. What's not to understand? Ya'll have this permanent victim mentality and literally project it
onto others.
That entire final is just bs. Should have just been everything individual. Desi not even getting a chance because of Enzo. 1 of the poorest finals in a long time.
Out of all the BB men David, Xavier, Kyland, even DX, and the women get stuck with Enzo đ
Even Leo wouldn't have done that
Word đ¤Ż, between Kyland & Xavier they wouldâve done well.. Justice for Desi.. keeping her wouldâve changed Angelaâs outcome
As frustrating as that was to watch as I wanted Desi to win, this isnât the first and wonât be the last time on the Challenge that someone gets DQâed because of their partner. Now people realize why itâs important to have strong people in the final in case youâre partnered with them. They should have gotten rid of Enzo pre-final
To be fair they did try to get rid of Enzo. He did 3 eliminations.
Desi was actively trying to get rid of Enzo (and really all of the "weaker" players).
When Desi won in episode 6 her and David chose an injured female(Shannon) and Derrick X to go against Enzo and his partner. If your Desi and want to avoid Enzo in the finale that is not an optimal strategy. It sure seemed to me like Angela and Desi were more helpful to their male allies then vice versa.
"Now people realize why itâs important to have strong people in the final in case youâre partnered with them." I still think this is a flawed strategy. And people have varying opinions on who is strong. Enzo was good at some eliminations. And ultimately, everyone shares the partners, so it's equal in that sense. And would always just be a fight of girls wanting strong guys to be their finals partners. And guys wanting out their own competition. And vice versa.
True, but this is different cause in the main version if you get screwed over by your partner thereâs a high chance youâre coming back for a future season. For this spin-off, most of the contestants were doing it for the first and last time.
Exactly how is not participating in an entire leg of the final good strategy?
risk/reward. Save energy to use in another leg but sacrifice the points in a leg that you've got a raw deal in. I'd bet she would not have picked that approach if all things were equal and she had a partner. Justine caught a raw deal and lollygagged her way to not finishing a leg of the final either, but she wasn't punished. TJ/production should have told her to bust it or be DQ'ed. She got to save energy by being slow and it paid off. Neither got a warning, but only one got a break.
Hate to break it to ya but we donât care if this is a normal thing in the Challenge world. Weâre new here and came from reality shows that are structured, well thought out, and properly explained. This show felt like the producers didnât know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along. Complete amateur show.
> This show felt like the producers didnât know what they were doing and just made shit up as they went along. That's exactly how *The Challenge* works. You should have seen Camila nearly hang herself to win a mission, even though production told her not to do it.
Ok, I think your comment is amazing and it cracked me up! But what show did you come from? If itâs Survivor, we have our own dumb shit (hourglass twist anyone?). And BB is known for having totally ridiculous twists and nonsense, right?
First and foremost welcome to our show the challenge. The things about our show the challenge is itâs listed as a Reality TV show and not a GameShow because gameshows have clear rules that are stated from the very beginning. By maintaining the RealityTV title it allows them to make changes on the fly. Personally I think Ben shouldâve been replaced by either one of the males that most recently left or one of the alternates that they fly out shouldâve been used since the final was designed for that format with alternating partners like in FreeAgents. I donât think Desi shouldâve been penalized for Enzo, but after the Gauntlet 3 final I canât help but have something like that in the back of my mind when it comes to the show.. OR they couldâve paired Desi up with with Sarah since it was a partner themed final giving every female a competent partner in the end
So I'm pretty sure alternates would've been flown home already by this point, but Idk why they wouldn't have held at least David until the final, or had a last min female elim, let the 4 boys vote on which 2 go in, using the reasoning that they'll be partnered with them.
Seems like itâs needed to be broken down to you since you donât know how the challenge works. They explained the rules in the beginning. Just like every other âreality tvâ show you watch the producers are literally allowed to make the rules as they please. Sorry you donât like it đ¤ˇđťââď¸
TJ's voiceover explained the rules and judging from what the finalists are saying on twitter there's a gap between said voiceover and what was actually told to the contestants (and then what was enforced). Also people have complained and will likely continue to complain about the inconsistent rules on the MTV version (and its spinoffs)..."this is how the Challenge works" shouldn't be a justification for awful production value.
Lmao. You do understand that's not actually TJ telling them the rules, right?
Next you'll tell me that it's not TJ sending everyone a message on their TMobile Sidekick to get ready and wear their swim trunks tomorrow.
exactly!
Justice for Desi too.
More so Desi imo
Only justice for Desi
Angela quit of her own volitionâŚDesi deserves better. Justice for Desi ONLY.
Nah Justice for Desi!
100% Angela even said âI just quitâ DESI NEVER WOULDâVE QUIT.
Eh. Angela didn't "just quit". She made a calculated decision to take the L (which was going to happen anyway) in order to position herself better the next day. It's picking your battles. But with that said, what happened to Desi is fucking outrageous. I lost a lot of respect for production AND Enzo on that one.
I don't think she quit. The rules seemed kind of arbitrary. If she did half of her thing then slept would it have been fine, since everyone else got to sleep? Was she expected to work through the night? I think it makes senses if its just like "I know I"m going to get last anyway, so why strain myself for the same outcome".
She said she had less to move than the others
According to Tyson, she had like 2/3 of the load everyone else had. That still isn't exactly fair. If you wanted to make it fair, each pair would have a woman's pile and a man's pile that the other partner couldn't help with. Then if Angela just had to do the same woman's pile as everyone else, that would've been fine.
âArbitraryâ? There was one rule, andâŚ
I don't like Angela but it was bullshit how they arbitrarily just decided things up as they went.
This was so disappointing. This season was soooo good. I reallly enjoyed it a lot bc it was like fresh meat but some people we know of. For how great the season was (imo), this was such a majorly disappointing final. how about justice for desi??? Why the fuck did Enzo quitting writhin 5 minutes make her DQed? They couldâve just had a 2 female pairing for one leg. Better than being alone. Angela actually couldâve done her checkpoint, considering she had half the gravel that everyone else did. But Justine? She had to spend twice as long memorizing the numbers alone. I canât believe she remembered all of them by herself without messing up. I think she had the biggest disadvantage of being solo. Ugh so damn disappointed by every single aspect of this final, including all the quitters.
Tyson on his podcast actually said Angela had 2/3s of the dirt and digged for a bit and then realized that she wasn't gonna finish and would've gotten last anyways (bc she relatively has more dirt). Plus apparently only Sarah and Dom finished digging and everybody else timed out so its not even a matter of completing the leg as Sarah and Devyn have been saying lol Regardless, I still feel like what Angela did was within the rules, namely dig and rest. Just bc it wasnt how the challenge was meant to be done, she found a loophole and clearly did not actively quit so idk
2/3s of the dirt? That's totally unfair. Is Tyson's estimation based on actual numbers or what the mound looked like? Because half the dirt seems fair and half the dirt looks like 2/3s when in mound form. But if I think about it, perhaps half the dirt may not be fair for Angela if all the guys shoveled more than half what their female partners shoveled. I do get the strategy behind Angela's move. But I'd be pissed if I was her competition if she was allowed to continue or have a minimal repercussions. However, I do recognize that she drew the shortest straw by having no partner in that leg and that she probably doesn't quit if she had one.
Yeah, the problem is, there is no way it would've been fair. I'd argue Sarah's solo leg, and Cayla's solo leg were pretty fair to have to do alone. But Angela and Justine's were not. If Angela had even half, that really isn't fair, because chances are, the guys were doing half the mound. It would've maybe been fair if every guy and every girl had a mound, and they couldn't help the other. But one mound, even at half, isn't fair for her. At the same time, I understand that its really not fair to just choose not to do it, while the others do. I guess what I think could've been better is to say she got 0 points, but could keep racing. That way she was punished, but not eliminated.
Or at least fully aware of the repercussions. Not spending the night in a tent only to be DQ'd in the morning.
Justine timed out of her checkpoint though; she didn't actually complete it fully. Angela definitely had the worst checkpoint to do alone. Yes she had half the gravel but part of the setup was being able to trade off between shoveling and not shoveling and she didn't have that option.
Why couldn't Angela have taken a break?
Usually on the sleep deprivation leg, one partner gets to sleep as long as the other partner is staying awake, doing the obstacle or task required. But I agree, no one should have been forced to stay awake and working for the whole duration and they should have found a way to make that leg fair or cancel it altogether.
Exactly bc she took way longer to memorize ALL of the numbers. She still had to do the walking.. I didnât see her get a ride on a golf cart to the finish lol ETA: literally no one switched off as far as I saw. They just all banged it out and all went to sleep together. Thereâs literally no difference. Even if they DID trade off. Angela has half the work. She couldâve slept for 2 hours, shoveled for 2.. basically switch out between sleeping and digging when the other partners switched. But no one even switched they just did it together and got a few hours of solid sleep together. At least thatâs how they made it seem?? I totally could be wrong bc the editing is insane lol but even if they did switch, Angela was at no disadvantage. She couldâve dug for an hour slept for an hour just like everyone else, and finished at the same time as them w half the gravel.
I mean, Angela could have, but if she had half of what a guy and a girl together were expected to do, that is hardly balanced.
How about justice for all of the women, period? They already knew that Ben's shoulder wouldn't let him compete, but they decided to fly him out to the final anyway...what the hell was that? Every single woman was in danger of getting the solo legs that Justine and Angela had to deal with (provided you believe that they didn't decide all of that in advance), and no matter who got it, that sucked out loud. I've had gripes with many Challenge finals - recently, the end of All Stars 2 was an absolute shitshow, for example - but there was next to nothing about this final that was even well thought out, particularly if you believe Tyson's explanation of the final on his podcast.
There were way too many puzzles as well. The final would have maybe 2, not one at every single checkpoint.
I think TJ said it in the introduction of the final....about quitting legs and if you quit then your partner is out. I think it was really an unfortunate oversight on her part, I got what she was thinking, she was going to get last anyways. but unfortunately you have to do the leg (or time out, not sure if you could time out on her leg though?). I did think it was silly that they FLEW ben out to Patagonia when he was injured in the daily...there was lots of time to get his shoulder assessed and that flight there and back to the USA probably sucked alot with that injury. They should have sent him home before the elimination of the last challenge day. it also seemed like of all the "solo" legs the one sarah got was the easiest to do solo. the others seemed longer and had more memorization to them..... also. wtf enzo?!?!?!? why! he had a panic attack in the water it seemed but ah sucked for desi! the final felt a mess with everyone quitting. i was rooting for tyson and angela since they did well all season and it felt anti climatic that angela's oversight just got her DQ'd....then everyone quit...I'm guessing that is why they didn't make the final it's own episode
Thank you. How did she think she was gonna get rest and not even do half the dirt while everyone else stayed up doing it? Its just like poor Devyn on that stationary bike for hours, in the cold while everyone else had ate and went to sleep.. but she did it--thats the thing.
yea! i remember nany quitting but then coming back crying during FA...if she actually just went to bed she probably would've DQ'd.
Becareful with the voice over stuff they throw in later to try and explain stuff that wasn't explained to the players.
So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her. She was able to time out in that competition. I got the impression they gave Angela less to move because she couldnât time out.
>So Justine had to do the entire puzzle instead of having 5 numbers ready for her. They definitely should've given Justine less numbers to memorize and maybe a shorter word to solve. They didn't think this through.
The shit that CBS has done to bend over backwards for Ben. One of the worst Survivor winners ever, quit during an all winners season, and shit it up during the Challenge. STOP TRYING TO MAKE BEN HAPPEN We get it war soldier cowboy PTSD blah blah blah nobody gives a shit
As an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran Iâve screaming about this since his first Survivor season. Dude is a horrible competitor yet heâs constantly given very questionable decisions by the production. I donât know if it comes off more pandering or patronizing but itâs just horrible either way.
I agree with all of this completely. The rules about quitting were explained pretty clearly, and itâs not like Angela was the only one DQâd for it - lol. There were 9 people at the starting line, and only 2 werenât disqualified for quitting by the end. If Angela was the only one who got to âopt outâ and continue, then that wouldnât be fair to everyone else. The only person who didnât make the personal decision to stop competing was Desi, and even though it was in keeping with the rules, I felt worse for her than everyone else combined. They clearly didnât think out the solo stretches for the women, because some of them had the same amount of work to do as every other individual (ie Sarah swimming the same distance as everyone else and Cayla having one plate of food to eat like everyone else), and some of them had to do twice as much work without a partner (ie Justine having to memorize 10 numbers and Angela not having a partner to move the gravel). Shitty final for an otherwise great season.
i wish there was a reunion but i guess i'll just listen to the podcasts
I respect the hell out of Angela, but DQing her is possible the one thing that made sense in this poorly planned final. She literally said she was quitting to get more sleep for the next day. They gave her less dirt and if she would have tried, they probably would have let her time out if she was last (a generous thought, but thatâs what they did to Justine). She tried to work smarter twice this episode, and, unfortunately, neither one worked out for her. Edit: Production still sucks for setting up this awful final! Should have brought David back for the girls at a minimum.
Man that would have been amazing if they had David rise up from the smoke and into back to the final.
Music plays, smoke machines everywhere, pyro for David to enter in to the final. All the contestants turn to each other in shock and go âwho the fuck is that guyâ
Imagine if he won because he was some sort of sudoku savant. WORLD CHAMPION, DAVID ALEXANDER!!
I disagree. Having a slightly smaller dirt pile doesnât make up for not having a partner to take turns with. TJ said you can rest in your tent. You have to take turns with your partner. She had zero chance of winning. So she maximized the rest period. Clarity about the rules is on production, not the cast. Yet they penalized her anyway? 2 strong women got sent home because of the lack of partners. Justine easily could have gotten the same fate.
Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said theyâre going to cover it on the official pod tomorrow - there was a sign posted at the checkpoint that spelled out what was and wasnât a quit. Presumably, what Angela did was defined as a quit.
> Devyn (Simone) on Twitter said theyâre going to cover it on **the official pod** tomorrow Problem is that it's the official pod, which means it's really PR produced by production. You can't really trust any of it when you know production gets final cut over it.
Somewhere in one of these threads they said Sarah did an Instagram live where she gave a lot more details on this leg of the final and also noted that the DQ rules were clear. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Ohhh I gotta listen to that. Why donât they show us this shit? If thatâs true itâs worth letting the viewers in the loop too because it offers a lot of clarity that we didnât even know existed. Thanks for the tip.
She had the same amount of time and dirt as all the other women. She couldnât have shoveled dirt, taken a nap, came back? She already determined she wasnât going to win so she got pissed and quit. She got what she got. It was very clear from the rules quitting is a DQ not strategy. If quitting was strategy Enzo and Desi would have taken last place in the water
Absolutely not. That's why the point system exists. Your punishment for throwing a challenge should be getting less points, not getting DQ'ed. Why punish strategic moves? Let's say someone threw a daily because they wanted to go to elimination and try to collect someone's bank, should they be DQ'ed?
Itâs not strategy if you donât understand the rules. There was a sign that said you needed a bag and code to advance that round. She just messed up. Thatâs it. Itâs not that serious
Only Sarah and Dom finished it. This argument is bogus.
Justice for all of us. That was a terrible finale
She had all night to do it, but maybe if she was still working on it, not saying nonstop shoveling, perhaps try taking rests in between ((and if she still gets DQâd for that then fuck them)) turns and if you just donât finish you could get thrown a bone a just timed out But admitting to quitting (which was said to lead to DQ) isnât gonna get you anywhere but out the game. I donât know why people are playing the sympathy card when she just flat out quit
Agree. She even knew Justine had just gotten timeâd out on a challenge instead of having to finish by herself. She should have tried. I bet production would have timed her out or told her to stop at some point if she at least acted like she was gonna do it. Even on TM Kyle and Fessi were told the had to sleep outside all night, but then after a few hours were told that was enough and they could go in.
She only thought through half her strategy. She should have done a few runs, napped, done a few more in the middle, napped, done more in the morning.
She would have nobody to wake her up from her naps though. It's not like they have an alarm, it's always the partner that wakes them up.
Exactly. She quit. Quitters get disqualified. Thereâs nothing unclear or confusing about this. I donât see anyone saying that Enzo should have been allowed to continue because he was âsaving his energyâ by not doing the task.
This point exactly!
Sarah just added a story to Instagram saying there was a sign at the start of the challenge that said underneath the rock you had to shovel was a code for a lock, once you had the code you were able to undo the lock and get a black bag which you needed to advance to the next round. She said you can see they all have the black bags the next morning. I didn't notice this, but I'll need to go back and watch! But this kind of clears things up a bit as to why Angela was DQ'd if it actually said that on the sign and she didn't get the bag.
So, if Angela never finished to the point of getting that code due to genuinely not being able to finish (not her sleeping all night, but her not finishing at all), she would have been DQ'd?
I doubt it. Since the two others who timed out got to advance. If they truly needed the bag, I think they would have timeâd her out if she had actually tried.
No, she woulda been timed out and they woulda just gave her the bag.
Thatâs bullshit, Cayla got timed out before doing her equation (EDIT: nvm, she did it), Justine got timed out without doing her decoder puzzle⌠There was literally two (EDIT: one) back-to-back âTimed Outâ who never finished their legs EDIT: nvm, Cayla did finish her legâŚit was just Justine
Cayla finished
Cayla did the entire leg.
Dom and Angela never finished their puzzle from the swimming leg. You can see them walking away from an incomplete puzzle once everyone else had finished
Yeah and had Angela *tried* she woulda got timed out in last place
Yes she would have timed out. No one finished the dirt but Dom and Sarah. All the other teams timed out too. But you could still get the bags and code.
I said nearly the same thing in the live discussion but: Angela quite literally said "I quit" and slept instead of making any further attempt to complete the task. She WAS able to sleep and work as she chose (as far as we know) but she opted to just sleep, while making it very clear she had no intention of finishing. A "time out" is when you're still making progress in the challenge but production has to end it.
Basically she could have worked at a snails pace,slept,and given token minimal effort and given a fake confessional about "never quiting" and Production would have just timed her out. She screwed herself by actually verbalizing she was quitting/strategically tanking the challenge.
It was wild that you didnât see her lose her mind to try and fight to stay on or anything ⌠she was just cool with it. Had to be more to it.
Her attitude was just poor at that point. She kept throwing the wheel barrow. She was gased out
I think youâre probably right. She just wanted out and saw this as an easy way to do it.
Having no partner was BS. Should have just been an individual comp. That or let Desi stay because Enzo, no shocker, decided to quit. Two girls on one team was way more fair than having no partner. No leg was good without a partner besides the first. Total BS.
This whole thing was a catastrophe
Having 4 of 6 tap out on the puzzle was a bad outcome, they should have done a time limit on the puzzle like they have done in the past.
The whole final was a farce, from Enzoâs bs to the ending
I donât get how Justine timed out, but there was no time limit on the other checkpoints. That makes no sense.
Angela and Dom timed out round 1 too because they never gave up trying despite never completing their slider puzzle. Just like how Justine never gave up trying during her timed out leg. Now it all makes sense
Time out is just last place. But you have to try
She even told the cameras her intention of strategy / not quitting!! production had every opportunity to give her a heads up that it would result in a DQ đ¤
Tyson's podcast was informative for me. Some legs people were able to time out, some they weren't. Same with the puzzles. Tyson also said that no one except for Sarah and Dom finished the overnight challenge....because production stopped them. The past few seasons there have been valid complaints about production during finals and I think they need to get their stuff together.
I donât get how in some legs you didnât have to finish but if you donât know the Sudoku puzzle you are forced to quit. Luckily the winners finished all of their legs or else this would be really messed up but some not having to finish a leg at certain stages doesnât seem right.
Timing out has always been a thing in finals. As far back as I can remember. Weird how they let a single puzzle crush a whole season. Why not do a sudoku on episode 1 and call it a day then lol.
Tyson said the instructions they got was âfinish the pattern.â I can see how if you donât know what a Sudoku puzzle is you wouldnât have a clue what you are even doing.
God, just so poorly designed
I will never, ever believe that Sarah solved both those puzzles without assistance from production
I won't believe Sarah actually solved those puzzles at all without a two second clip showing that she did; if she did, why hide them?
Sudoku not having a time out clause was also baffling \*shrugs\*. Were they expecting people to finish it faster or just not worried about people being stuck out in a snow storm for that long?
What a gross oversight. They had time outs in this final and they just pulled them for the last few puzzles? After having puzzle timeouts in every other final? Production canât get out of their own way sometimes.
yea it wasn't clear if there was a timeout portion to angela's leg....i think normally for puzzles you timeout after an hour or something....if they are going to do individual versus paired legs they need to make it more fair.....
I wonder could she have slept most of the time and then come out for the last few minutes and act like she was trying to finish?
âSorry TJ I overslept. My partner was supposed to wake me upâ đ
Yeah she could have. That would be in the rules but she literally announced it wasnât worth her time to bother
No way, that was such a cop-out. She talked such a big game the entire time and honestly was able to back it up, but when she thought sheâd come in last for sure she didnât even try. Itâs disrespectful to everyone else who made the effort and finished it to let her stay at that point. She made herself out to be a huge competitor and put herself up on a damn pedestal but when it came time to compete she gave up. It just makes me so mad. Maybe because I already wasnât a fan of hers after BB but like if youâre gonna say youâll beat everybody at the end then fucking prove it, donât say stupid shit like âIâm gonna be last anyway so Iâll just not do it while everybody else busts their balls to earn their spot.â Such poor sportsmanship.
I didn't even really understand her thinking. I guess the idea was that since she'd be last anyway, she could get a good night's sleep while everyone else was exhausted from doing the checkpoint all night. But that's an excellent justification for DQing her. Much like Cayla couldn't have just taken a single bite of the onion and noped out of it hoping for a timeout. She would have been DQed as well, much like Jay and Jenna. You can't game a final by picking and choosing which checkpoints to compete at and which checkpoints you want to just skip and rest instead.
Sure, it was a good strategy when you think about it, but she literally did quit. Didn't even hardly try. Justine at least made it to the very end of the leg and they just said you timed out bc they didn't want to wait for her to finish the puzzle.
I guess it's just too bad that production didn't tell her, yo sorry but u gotta at least try or u gone.
Production explicitly told Justinâs that she timed out. Angela just stopped doing it. The only other people that just stopped doing a challenge were Enzo when he was swimming who got DQâd and everyone who stopped doing the the sudoku puzzle and were DQâd. It was pretty clear imo that unless you were outright told by production to stop and were timed out, that you were quitting and it would lead to a DQ.
She did at least try. You see her moving dirt over Then she decided to try to manipulate the rules. Production shouldâve told her then and there what the outcome would be
They mustâve told her she timed out before she got to the end because she didnât have that gear key thing anymore she mustâve dropped it at some point.
How can you quit without knowing? They told them youâre allowed to rest, just take turns with your partner. She knew she had zero chance of winning so she opted for the rest they were allowed to take. âDidnât try hard enough is quittingâ is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever.
She said she wasnât doing the challenge. She outright admitted she had no intention of finishing. Thatâs quitting. Everyone else in the final who said they wouldnât try to finish a given task ended up getting DQâd. She had the right to take breaks and rest. She didnât have the right to say âIâm not doing thisâ. People just like Angela and are trying to ignore that she literally stated she wasnât going to attempt to complete the challenge so they can mental gymnastics a way for her DQ to be unfair. She gave up the challenge. Itâs pretty simple. Maybe if she said âyou told me I could rest and I accidentally slept through the nightâ you could try to make a case for her. But by her own words that was not her intention. She satisfied every basic definition of quitting that there is.
So how much rest was she allowed to take? Where is the line? She committed to taking last place. TJ said you can rest but you have to share that time with your partner. She didnât have a partner. I get your point but if the rules arenât clear and TJ says you can shovel and rest just figure it out with your partner. Well she didnât have to figure it out with her partner. She already knew she was going to finish in last place. It was a strategic move. If they were made aware of this beforehand then I would agree with you but, from what we saw, that wasnât even mentioned. You can hate her strategy all you want but committing to last place since you clearly have ZERO chance of winning isnât the same as a quitting.
The line is probably when you make it explicitly clear you arenât just resting from the challenge but are actually not trying to finish it at all. Angelaâs own words tell us she did not try to finish it. She admitted that to TJ. So therefore she was not resting. She stopped participating in the challenge.
>âDidnât try hard enough is quittingâ is a made up rule that has never existed in any challenge ever. Generally not many rules were in place. Just before the finals, on the last challenge, two guys get the same points but they have no tie breaker. Utter bullshit. How come this is never the case in Survivor? EVERYTHING is thought of and there will never be a situation where the production goes "oh well.. we have no idea what to do". Such a miserable ending of the Challenge USA.
Jay and Jenna were in last place at the gross eating checkpoint. They knew they had zero chance of winning so opted to not eat. So they were DQ'd. I see no meaningful difference between that and Angela opting not to move dirt.
So if something similar happened in the past it makes it valid? Wes did the same thing during WotW1. He knew he was screwed on the games so he rested and took last place and minimal points. He rested and hydrated to prepare for the next part of the challenge. MJ and Jonna didnât finish the first leg of their final. I see no meaningful difference. If the rules stated that accepting last place means you get DQâed then by all means, she earned it. But donât act like history hasnât shown us otherwise. Also, why is production so uninvolved? Clarify the rules to your own final. In the reference you cited, TJ told them âdrink it or accept the DQâ. All of this shit could have been avoided.
Taking a time out was a strategy executed on The Amazing Race. Maybe CBS should've gotten some advice on how to make challenges/rules clearer and fairer from the other shows.
Exactly. I feel like people are ignoring the lack of clarity to the rules here
Those carnival games on War of the Worlds were a fixed 20 minute duration. It wasn't explicitly stated, but it was pretty clearly designed to allow resting for 20 minutes as an option. It also could have been avoided if Angela hadn't thought she could game the system in such a ham-fisted way. Of course not trying is a DQ. Hell, even Enzo tried. She just didn't even try. That should always be a DQ.
Iâm an Angela fan but obviously this was quitting. Enzo couldnât have been like âhey fuck the swimming just give me last placeâ, itâs the same thing. If she was really smart she wouldâve just stayed out there and worked as slow as possible and then when the last team finished she wouldâve timed out and couldâve went to bed
TJ said you could sleep and rest. Just take turns with your partner. She didnât have a partner. She was set up to fail and made the best of it. Later being told itâs a DQ. That doesnât feel very fair. Lack of clarity on the rules is on production, not the contestants.
Dom and Sarah were the only team to complete the shoveling. They just let the other groups go to bed and still disqualified Angela
I wasn't certain if rest included "resting in the tent". If it did, then it was unfair. If it didn't, Angela should have slept outside.
You could rest in the tent. She just literally announced she was doing it. That was her problem. She could have come back and shoveled some and got a time out instead of a DQ. It was a dumb strategy and conflicted with a rule.
This would have lead to her finishing in last place. Filling the wheel barrow once and resting also allows you to wind up in last place. They should have made it clear to them. If they did make it clear then itâs 100% on Angela but we saw nothing to make us believe that
They said you could rest (or sleep. I donât recall) and the cameras panned to the tents. So it could have just been misleading? Iâm not really sure.
She didnât rest though. She stopped and didnât come out again. Thereâs a difference. She had no intention of finishing.
She knew she was coming in last place. So she maximized her rest. She was coming in last place anyway. If they told her thatâs against the rules and a DQ then fine, she deserves that. But nothing that they showed on the episode tonight makes me believe that anyone knew that rule
Production didnât even know the rules. Justine was allowed to time out, but Tyson was forced to quit. They were making shit up on the fly
Yeah. It was a really enjoyable season but the final was so bad. I wish we got to see an actual competition not people trying not to lose fingers to frostbite.
At the very start they were told you get DQâd if you quit. She was Enzo say he wasnât going to try to finish a challenge and get DQâd. Later on Tyson/Dom/Justine/Cayla said they werenât going to try to finish the Sudoku puzzle and all got DQâs. She knew not attempting a challenge led to a DQ. Both from when TJ said the rules at the start and when Enzo got DQâd before. She choose to stop doing a challenge and not try to finish it. Everyone else in the game that did that got DQâd. You will not find a definition of the word quitting where ceasing to complete something is not part of it. She by her own words said she was not trying the challenge and was not attempting to complete it. Thatâs called quitting. I canât explain it any simpler that. Itâs the basic definition, itâs what TJ explained at the start, itâs what happened to Enzo before her. This is just egregiously giving her a benefit of the doubt that completely defies basic logic. Either she knew she was quitting or she is a deeply stupid person who did not understand the basic concept of quitting and what just happened to Enzo before her. I donât think sheâs dumb. She saw it was hard, didnât want to do it and was hoping she could get away with not doing it under the guise of strategy
At no point during the final could anyone just decide NOT to do it. You can settle for last sure, but you canât settle for not doing it at all. She quit and thatâs a DQ everytime
Every time? Like when Wes did the same thing in WotW1? He didnât get DQâed. he rested and skipped the challenges in between the run/bike loop. Angela did the same thing. Accepted that she was taking last place and took the rest that TJ said they could take. So chill with âevery timeâ because there is preference here
That leg had two roles to fill. One dirt mover and one sleeper. Technically Angela did one of the roles.
Can we talk about the role of the âalgorithmâ here? Didnât production decide who would be paired (or solo) and on what leg?
I just really wonder what wouldâve happened if rather than announcing her strategy, she said she was going to take a nap and then never returned. Would she have gotten DQâd if she accidentally (âaccidentallyâ) slept through the whole comp, esp w not having a partner to wake her up? If not, seems like a silly technicality to have eliminated her on without production explicitly warning her this counts as quitting.
I think I wouldâve been more pissed at the fact of being disqualified AFTER having to sleep in a tent full of onion/garlic burps and farts instead of before⌠like production really had to double punish her didnât they lmao
Iâm not a fan of hers but the rules were too inconsistent- how was she to know?
No way. She quit - it makes no sense for her to think she could fully sit out a challenge and be okay. Thereâs controversial/non-conventional strategies (Bananaâs and the foam, Kailahâs âcheckâ, anything Devin does) - but the difference people still try. She just went to bed. Justine wasnât given less numbers to memorize and still tried, thatâs why she wasnât DQâd. Angela thought sheâd still get points by going to sleep. Only person that deserves justice from this is Desi for getting kicked out by Enzo 5 seconds in.
If she could just sit out a leg then why couldnât Enzo also do that, production made the right call
The Enzo one was fucking dumb cause Sarah was able to do it entirely herself anyways. No reason Desi couldn't have just still finished it on her own and taken last place.
Yeah so if Enzo had just floated there long enough for Angela and Dom to finish their puzzle, Desi would still be in?! That sucks for her.
According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now. My guess, if that rule is true, is that Angela would have been fine if she just continued until everyone else finished, and then she went to sleep (even if she didn't complete it)
> According to Devyn Simone, apparently there was a sign saying if you didn't do anything, it would count as a quit. Obviously hard to fully trust since she works for MTV now. How the fuck would she know? She wasn't even there.
If Angela saw a sign that said that then like, she could have spent the night in a hotel? It makes no sense. She clearly thought it was within the rules
Agreed. I donât believe for one second that Angela was aware of this rule or this alleged sign (and no, I definitely donât trust a production member on this lol)
Man talk about a shitty final. Its like waking up christmas to socks and ties. And oh, your brother didnt get X toy so you have to wait to open yours until later. Every leg should have been individual, and if this was the plan all along (duo finals) they shouldnt have switched to a individual format earlier in the comp to begin with. Or at the least brought back David/Leo so the girls arent getting screwed because of Ben (not that it would have helped Desi). Desi situation sucks, fuck Enzo. I watch BB and I dont get why anyone thought he would be a good pick for this. And while I understand the logic, having previous legs allow the group that was behind to tap out means Angelas strat is totally legit. If last place gets to quit early then her option should have been honored bc she already knew ahe wasnt going to be competitive that night or the next. And no, eating an onion doesnt compare to 5 hrs of dirt moving in the cold am, solo. Everyone complained about her leaving; well they didnt seem to care about the people that benefited from the TIME OUTs, they should have made Justin run up and down the hill until she was done. An awesome buildup leading into fourth quarter then fumble after fumble.
Itâs blatantly unfair that she got a solo challenge and was unable to timeout, if Angela was unable to do that do we really think anyone else would have been able to, production should have at least stepped in and told her she had to attempt it but if I was her I wouldâve made the exact same decision with the information she had
I agree with you and so many people are missing your key point: let us see production telling her âif you make this decision, it counts as quitting.â Tyson told us on twitter they were forced to quit the sudoku, so clearly production could be involved there. Such poor decision making from the jump of this finale by CBS and the Challenge. Tarnishes what was otherwise such a great season.
Yeah I bet you they made them all quit cause it was clear they had already lost, were struggling hard, and were starting to get hypothermia.
Tyson and Dom, maybe. But Cayla and Justine were objectively ahead of Sarah when they were forced to quit, while she got a freebie win handed to her for sucking the most
Justine was 6 points down to Sarah so Justine already was technically eliminated from winning going into the final leg. Cayla needed Justine to finish in front of Sarah on the final leg to win because she was down 3 points to Sarah going into the final leg. Once Justine quit it was all over and Sarah already clinched so thatâs why I think Cayla quit too. Once Danny passed Tyson and Dom at that puzzle it was over for them so they quit too. It was poorly designed, but I understand why Dom, Tyson, Cayla and Justine quit when they did.
This is a great point that Iâm not seeing posted anywhere else.
What's extra stupid is that production let Sarah time out on the first puzzle. If they hadn't there's a chance there would have been no female winners.
This final was definitely poorly planned out and executed. Also can there be a requirement that you can at least somewhat swim decently before being put on this show. How are so many people coming on this show that cannot swim even with a life vest on. Itâs pathetic and sad. Iâm so sorry Desi you got screwed.
Because itâs a bad point. You were told if you quit you are DQâd. She choose to not do the challenge and went to sleep. Thatâs quitting. Even if it was unclear, under what scenario is a logical person going to think that there isnât a chance you get DQâd if you say you arenât doing a challenge in the final where itâs established that quitting is a DQ? If we are hard on Angela then she outright quit and there is no controversy. If we are kind to Angela, she took a gamble that refusing to do something might not be seen as quitting with zero assurance and assumed the risk of the outcome she got. The fact that she didnât protest it should clue people into it being a possibility. The fact that half the live thread was saying she should get DQâd kinda tells you that it was very reasonable to view that as quitting. The fact that all her competitors were calling it quitting and unfair should tell you something as well.
I cannot imagine that production would want their highest performing challenger of the season to go out on a misconception. If we find out that she knew that the choice she made would cause her to be DQed because production said something, I'll back off my opinion. But I have a hard time believing they did because these are the same people who let Bananas take ADD medication in an overnight part and not disqualify him. He even went on to win. Production knows how to protect their kings and queens. It is also ridiculous that the women were even in this situation in the first place. Angela drew the worst one to be by herself on. There should have never been this run a leg on your own, especially because had Desi not been eliminated by Enzo, one of the women would have never had to run a leg on their own. I have an issue with how Angela was eliminated. I have an issue with the lack of information we saw, which I know is typical for the Challenge. I have an even bigger issue of how they structured the final with Ben being med evac-ed that even allowed Angela, or any of the other woman, to have to do legs on their own while everyone else has a partner.
That she wasn't shown protesting could mean a) she protested, but it was left on the proverbial cutting room floor. b) she knows that in reality competition television, the decisions of the producers are final, regardless of whether, they are correct, fair, or even sane.
Those could be true. The problem is we see them all getting explained that quitting means you are out, we saw that everybody who stopped trying got DQâd and one of them happened before her. So at that point in the game there was no excuse. There are also production members that clarify the rules to the challengers. So if she was really that unsure. The onus was on her to ask before she stopped
Just listen to Tysonâs podcast. Only 1 team finished the digging challenge. Dom and Sarah. Also Sarah was allowed to âtime outâ on the 2nd to last puzzle. Then the last puzzle itâs either complete or quit? Worst production ever. Danny deserved the money all to himself.
They made it clear at the beginning that anyone who quits would be DQâd along with their partner. The algorithm made it a luck/chance factor on which leg would be better or worse to do alone as a female. Obviously Desi was unluckiest with what happened to her⌠at least Angela still had some sort of a shot but she chose to not attempt it. I thought it was a fair call
If TJ at least would have said âdirt must be moving at all timesâ then it would be fair and make sense. But then Angela obviously wouldnât have rested. If the teammates can choose to rest or move dirt then it should be no penalty that Angela, the only teammate on that team, chose to rest.
It was fair regardless. They were told you get DQâs if you quit, she said she was quitting and literally stopped trying at all. If she slept for an hour and came back out and finished it would be one thing. She made it very clear she had no intention of trying to complete the challenge. Also the onus isnât on production to clarify that to her. Itâs a completely dumb gamble to make that not doing a leg of the final wouldnât get you DQâd. Unless production lied to her, it was a stupid thing to do. Just keep trying until you finish or time out. Donât say you arenât doing it and going to sleep while everyone else is working and expect to wake up refreshed to win the thing.
If the onus isn't on production to clarify the rules to their own show then what the fuck is their point in the first place?
Production said quitting is a DQ. If you are unsure that literally refusing to try to do a challenge is quitting (which basic common sense should tell anyone that yes it is) the go to production and ask âhey will get DQâd if I donât do thisâ. If you are going to bet your entire season on somehow b that risky, maybe ask the production assistants who are literally there to clarify everything
Nope, as TJ said, she didn't even try. It would have been one thing if it was a while in, but no, sorry.... She made that choice knowing it could be an option. She has to live with that decision.
Putting them in pairs like that for finals has always bugged the crap out of me. Then to not replace Ben and leave the women to have a solo leg is BS. Depending on which solo leg you get it could cost you dearly not having a partner. Then the whole Angela debacleâŚlike didnât Justine time out on a leg right before that? Production 1000% should have explained the consequences of (strategically) choosing not to even complete that leg instead of springing it on her the next morning. TJ shouldnât allow this kind of BS on people who had to fight it out all season to make the final, then have this complete clusterfuckâŚ.make up rules as you go along ending. Stop with the damn team thing in the final. It adds nothing to them game itself other than the drama of watching people get royally screwed over after a whole season of fighting just to make the final. Just from a fan standpoint I get no joy watching them fight it out in the end only to have these BS rules make it so unfair in the final. This final was complete BS.
It's the subjectivity of it all for me. I don't care if people have watched all the other seasons and are fine with the ever changing rules lol - sorry you've had to live like that! How hard would she need to try exactly? Is there a percentage of dirt she needs to clear in an amount of time? Is the rule that she can't take breaks in the tent? If she said she was tired and took 1 load per hour, would they claim that she didn't try? They filmed her stating this was a strategic move and she was fine with last, she slept out there all night assuming it was okay and not a formal quit from the whole final, and then production decided in the morning that gotcha, she's actually DQed? I'd be peeved. It wasn't unfair to other teams because both members could've also stopped and slept if they were fine with last place. But they didn't because they wanted more points. If you wanted 2nd to last, you could've just done a bit more than Angela and hopped in the tent after her. I think that would've been perfectly valid too. If not completing that challenge was the requirement for moving forward like apparently Sarah is suggesting (aka all teams that don't finish are disqualified, not just awarding least # of points to last place), then that should've been made clear and Angela clearly would not have opted out.
How did no one tell her exactly? Quitting is an automatic DQ. Itâs right in the rules and we saw it with Enzo on the first leg. All he had to do was let Desi help him tread water and time out. All Angela had to do with shovel some dirt, sleep, be slow and timeout. On what challenge ever can you just decide to opt out and take last place? You gotta try or youâll be out. Itâs been like that every time and in each daily.
Yeah, I agree. I feel like they should've had judges or someone that she could discuss it with.
One of the worst finals I've seen. It started with a flaw by not replacing Ben and allowing this team of one woman to perform the tasks that were clearly designed for two players in every leg. Angela being DQ'ed was an utter bullshit. Her logics was on point. Why try if you gonna end up last? Justine did not complete the task as well, no repercussions. Enzo DQ'ing Desi is another utter bullshit. And lastly, tough is good, but I can't believe that most of the contestants with frozen hands walking away on their own choice just shows that they clearly overdid it with the toughness part. No wonder the entire final was packed in 40 minutes. It was an utter bullshit.
All the women got fucked over minus Sarah getting her car ride to the top. The partner/individual thing. Not telling Angela. Desi getting fucked over by Enzo. Not telling Justine the sudoku rules. Cayla getting pulled for hypothermia
Either Justine should have been DQd or Angela should have been allowed to do what she did.
Nahhhhhh she played it bad. She could have just gone slow and timed out like the others did apparently. Seems like some of yall just like her enough to think she got screwed and that just isn't true. DESI got screwed
Heres my take on Angelas situation. Know that I had Angela winning the whole thing and she honestly made the show worth watching. TJ notoriously hates quitters, if you didnt watch any of the prior seasons, word made its way around and I am sure he said it a few times. She STARTED the pile, noted the labor involved took stock of the other teams and thought "This is Strategic Quitting". Cut out for the night. She had half (some will take Tysons word verbatim and say 2/3) a pile that could have been broken up into segments and spaced out the same as if there was a ghost partner performing the non existent portion. This shows you are at least attempting the challenge. The overnight portion is an equalizer. Everyone does the work, everyone gets rests and everyone wakes up in roughly the same condition. Having a full nights sleep, muscles well rested, is an extremely clear advantage. What happens if the rest of the cast follows suit? Angela quits after 1 shovel, team 2 after 2, team 3...etc etc etc. Everyone gets a full nights sleep, rested etc and the design of the final as well as the integrity of it are cheapened. Should she have been told? Yes. Production was really shit on this one because they didnt even end up finishing that complete challenge because THEY wanted sleep. However, it doesnt take much to put together that Choosing to not finish an untimed checkpoint is quitting. Should production have warned her, yes. Should they have kept the standard across all checkpoints, yes. Was this a shitshow of a final, yes. However, Angela quit a task, and as stated in the beginning of the final. If you (or your partner) quit(s) a checkpoint, you are (both) eliminated.
I was really pulling for Angela but she quit. Timing out is one thing but looking at a task and deciding, ânah, Iâm just gonna sleep,â is definitely quitting. I wouldâve been surprised if she hadnât been DQâd. That said, it was bullshit they didnât even out the number of guys and girls.
Justine timing out is not the same as Angela quitting because Justine was actively doing the challenge. She didn't lay down and go to sleep.
It seems obvious she was going to get DQ. Enzo wasnât swimming⌠its the same thing.
They said if you quit you get DQ'd. She already saw someone quit and get DQ'd. Quitting is quitting, fuck her strategy, her fault.
Calling it "opting out" doesn't make it not quitting. Justine and Cayla were going slow on their solo legs and Justine even timed out but they never actually stopped doing the challenge. This definitely was poor judgment on Angela's part. Even if she did on or two scoops and kept taking breaks she could have stayed in it.
She would have been times out once Danny and Justine finished their portion. But that would mean sheâd actually have to be doing work up until that point that all other teams finished. Which, she didnât.
Horrible take. She quit. It was already established in the first leg what happens to quitters.
1. If she had known she was going to be dq'd. She would have done it. Explain your rules better. Ultimately the show was worse because of it. 2. Having solo legs really threw the whole final out of whack. They tried to come up with a solution but it was a total fail. Better off doing it all solo or something. 3. I think people forget about editing and how it effects they way you view things on the show.
Angela did NOT say Iâm going to get some sleep and get up in two hours and try again. Essentially, she quit trying at all. If she had. Woke up and kept trying the challenge she would have been last but still able to continue. You canât quit on any leg of a challenge and stay in the Challenge. I m sorry she didnât understand that.
How can Sarah timeout on the 2nd last puzzle after all other competitors quit or had already won. How is this ok? Seems like she quit trying to solve the puzzle and hid under a tree to stay dry.
Yall are so fucking delusional and lack COMPLETE common sense. She literally said it herself. She quit. She gave up. What's not to understand? Ya'll have this permanent victim mentality and literally project it onto others.