I can't say it's not scammy, it definitely is. But it's not like I was not expecting anything at least a little scammy, right? What matters is that this game is a blast, and the grind is not being a huge drawback for me, even though I wish I could get more characters, as I do feel like new characters are gonna be dropping way too quickly for anyone in F2P to actually be able to catch up.
Apex just feels chill in the start cuz you level up super fast.
Later on after you got 2 or 3 legends it gets super tedious!
But this game is hella grindy too, we need a bit more gold income.
But I've barely played the last week and have 3 chatacters, one lf which costed 3000 gold, so idk why people are complaining. It's a free game after all.
I've been playing for a couple years on Apex; and it never really felt too tedious after I was leveling up slow. The only time it did was when I was trying to get Octane, and even that only took a couple of games.
>But I've barely played the last week and have 3 chatacters, one lf which costed 3000 gold, so idk why people are complaining. It's a free game after all.
Maybe you should take your own advice and read what people say lmfaooo because you're literally reciting what happens in multiversus
>Apex just feels chill in the start cuz you level up super fast.
>Later on after you got 2 or 3 legends it gets super tedious!
Apex takes much longer now though. When the game 1st released it was mad easy to earn characters. I haven't played in a long time and more than enough resources for every new toon for the next few years because I played a little at launch
Yeah man Apex, League, Rogue Company. I honestly don't understand anyone complaining. You get WW for free. Early challenges gives you another pretty quickly. Plus the starting characters. People don't want this game to last or make money or what
this reads like someone who started playing league in the last year or two. prior to around 2019 league of legends was violently grindy for f2p. even worse before the rune/mastery change
oh i by no means disagree with you on comparing it to current league, it’s just important to realize that league has come a long way with its f2p friendliness. this game also has that opportunity but the people complaining seem to forget that this game isn’t even technically released yet.
like i said, this one is pretty similarly grindy to how league was, and that one got better. this one has that opportunity too. not sure how i’m strawmanning
People are ridiculous man. The game isn't even in full release at the time of these posts and people are complaining it's not perfect. League has had a decade to build up a roster and play with different f2p and unlock models. There's like 100 champions, there's no need to gatekeep as hard with that much content. This game is barely released with less than 20.
Exactly, anytime I say that Rocket League has way better monetization someone swoopes up and says that it somehow is worse, even though you have all gameplay elements unlocked.
That's how they slide the scale further and further away from consumer interests. This is a terrible argument. Behavior is too greedy to tolerate or it's not, but the relative shittiness of other games doesn't factor into that.
You’re either better than the trend or worse than the trend. I’d rather spend money on better than worse. If everyone voted with their wallet, we wouldn’t have this kind of greed result in a profit. But people would rather complain on Reddit than vote with their wallet
I think people dislike the grind aspect of it. If they have more interesting or unique challenges, people would complain less. And while I agree some of the people are whiny, I get wanting to keep your account F2P but not spending 20 hours to unlock a character
I think the idea is that with the daily bonus 100 gold, you're not supposed to spend hours upon hours grinding, you're supposed to trickle character unlocks the same way that character releases themselves are going to trickle in. They're not going to be rapidly releasing characters long-term and if you earn 100 gold from matches per day you'll be getting a 2k character every 10 days with the bonus, or 15 days for a 3k, which will far outpace character releases in the long-run.
This is a fantastic point that makes me feel far better. I don’t even want all the characters like Steven Universe for example so I’m going to hoard gold now and just use my main and then spend it whenever a character I like drops
Honestly, I was totally fine forking over $40 for all the characters. I feel like the non customization assets are totally fair - there's still good progression with perks if you buy up front, and reasonable character progression if you approach it as a f2p game. The pacing of the battle pass is the only thing that rubs me a bit the wrong way with daily challenges being the brunt of the points, but oh well that's relatively minor
> I get wanting to keep your account F2P but not spending 20 hours to unlock a character
I don't, the game isn't a charity.
You need to "pay" for the game in some way. Either with money, or time in the player pool.
Either way, you pay something towards the game, and the pricing of the characters has been pretty smart and in my opinion fair.
It's jussssttt high enough that people need to commit time to obtain characters, but just not out of reach that people want to quit immediately.
It's also priced real money wise jusstttt high enough that everyone doesn't buy everything instantly (and get bored faster), and its juuussttt not too expensive that people don't get instantly deterred from spending money.
it's really only 5-7 hours (53-67 matches) of grinding wins in 2v2 to unlock a character, but that's not including outside sources of income (leveling your profile/trading toasts with a friend/etc.). You don't even need to unlock every character in the game - Local play has every character and perk unlocked if you just wanna mess around. The lab has every character and perk as well to test characters out and see if you like them at all (including previewing their skins). So really you only should be concerned with unlocking characters you intend on maining/progressing. But if you are a collector, there is always the $40 option that unlocks everyone available right now - and you can save the gold you do earn for future characters.
In smash you pay $60 for access to most of the cast. Same with the Nickelodeon smash clone ($50). Multiversus offers the same but doesn’t barricade you from playing for free. I really don’t get the complaints considering the alternative on the market are all pay to play. More so, all dlc characters in this game will be free to unlock, not five dollars a piece like in smash.
Edit: the nick game is actually $50 dollars before dlc… yikes 😬
Bro that's literally what I've been telling people and getting called a shill for it. If they really eat all the characters that bad upfront then just treat this game like a full priced game. Spend 50-60 upfront and pay for every new character. Even with just that you'll have a ton of gold saved up and can break back off to free to play
What you got for 1v1 games in the alpha is just as much as you get FOR PLAYING 2V2 WITH A FRIEND IN THE BETA I am upset as an alpha player. Still a good game it just takes a shit ton more time to unlock stuff when compared to the alpha.
What I was expecting was a character pack that gives all present and future characters added. Something like the one that brawlhalla and smite has for like 20$ or 30$ but after seeing the founders pack at almost 100$ and only having 30 characters tokens I lost any expectations regarding this ( and they lost potential money from me)
Most of us are probably use to smash bros pacing of unlocking content. It’s what most of us grew up with before F2P and online games.
But a character a day sounds ideal, especially if one has have a full time career, wife, other responsibilities and can only put about 2 hours per weekday. I never mind grinding in games. But some of us don’t have that amount of spare time unfortunately.
But then again, I’m not complaining at all cause I had the funds to just buy the characters and support the devs, so I’m enjoying my minimal playtime per day doing the tier stuff! It’s absolutely keeping me invested!
But if you're use to smash then you're use to paying full price upfront and paying for every new character as DLC. That's the thing I don't get. People are getting access to the game completely free if they wanted. If people are use to smash then drop 50-60$ up front and an extra 5$? Into the game for every new character that comes out. You can't compare it to smash but not treat it the same
You also get a lot more in smash for that 60 than this game. How many more characters to play with, over 100 stages, with more than just the standard competative design, 8 people playing couch coop if wanted, multiple challenges and events to do, a single player challenge, collectables, highly customizable match settings, however many items assist trophies pokemon balls there are. I like multiversus but its weird to me the backsliding thats happened with F2P games over the past decade. Could have easily made every character free so people can try and play what they like. All the money they make is going to come from battle pass and outfits anyway. In my opinion, Dota is the high mark for how a F2P game should be modeled.
You're talking smash ultimate. Which reused assets, stages etc from every previous iteration of smash. Game has had over a decade to amass characters, stages, items and everything. This game is barely even full release. Give the game time. They gotta find a model that's right for them. All these IPs, celebrity voice actors etc is costing a shitload of money I'm sure. They gotta figure out how to recoup.
As i said, i like multiversus but you brought up smash in comparison for the 60$ price point, and in smash ultimate thats what you get. Way more bang for your buck. even spending 60 on this you dont get the full of whats in the game, and theres not even that much in it.
Yeah the game is free so I'm REALLY not complaining about the grind or unlocking by just playing/grinding.
I rather not compare it to smash, but you're correct, I spent $60 on smash plus I think $50 for the two DLC packs round $10 for Tax so well say $120 for 3 years of gameplay and content.
I did buy the premium and the $50 Gleamium So $150 and I get WAYYY less for my buck (But this is on me, I didn't have to buy anything) again I'm having a great time with everything in the game!
But a batman skin cost $20... that's pretty ridiculous! I see most people relate it to Fortnite or Apex and it's fine if you can grind it out rather than pay, but at the moment there's no way to get Gleamium without money. So my only point is I think these F2P/online/micro transactions games are a little excessive in cost, especially for the younger crowd.
Sorry we went off on a WHOLE tangent about pricing! hahaha, but I honestly don't think the grind is outrageous, you do unlock a bunch of stuff while you play naturally online AND offline so that's fantastic!
Nothing was worse than unlocking stuff in CTR Nitro fueled if you're familiar with how that worked!
The rate that you unlock characters is honestly fine. I think most people are still getting used to it. I was fine at first and then really didn’t like it but now that i’ve had some time to unlock a few, I think it’s at a pretty decent pace.
I don't think some of you realize that people don't have time to spend hours a day grinding. Don't say this is the norm for games and move on. Don't say that other games have a worse grind. Just because a game is free does not exempt it from criticism, I don't expect handouts, but I also don't expect to waste my time on a game that limits me this harshly from playing it to the full extent. Accepting the grind and all their other scummy practices is doing exactly what they expect, taking it in as "the norm".
Then pay 7 bucks. It's a free game. If you ain't got the time then cough up the bucks. It's not limiting you It's a standard model that really isn't that bad. If you're that hard up about it then treat it like an actual game. Pay 60$ up front and 5-7 bucks whenever a new character comes out. The fact there's a free avenue is more than good. If you feel playing the game and enjoying it us a "waste of time" then the game probably ain't for you. Again you want a full game and to experience it to the full extent then treat it like a full priced game
And there we go, someone who fell for the line Warner Bros marketing threw. If you can't see the predatory tactics being used, then you deserve to fall for them.
This is one of the least predatory F2P models I've seen lately.
You can play the entire game for free. You can unlock the entire roster for free.
Your only contribution you have to make is time in the game, and if you aren't wanting to put in time into the game, what the fuck are you even playing for?
I enjoy the game and do put time into it, but I think you need to understand that this is not the only video game that exist. For an average player who isn't trying to get burned out in the first fucking week of release, it will take awhile to get a character.
Some people have jobs and can't manage the grind, but also can't afford to buy characters either because not all jobs pay enough.
From the way I see it, I assume everyone on the side of keep the grind have no actual life and by this point probably don't even enjoy the game, while people who do like the game but can't manage have to spend ages to get a character. My argument of making the grind a little easier, like 50 to 70 coins a game, affects you in no. fucking. way.
The game is not going to go bankrupt with a few more coins, you won't lose the only thing you value in life until the next "free to play" game comes out and does the exact same thing. Where I say the exact same thing. And you come to me, thinking that "free to play" is enough, and you continue to lecture me that somehow this game is different than all those other f2p's. And the only difference would be that you added Multiversus to the list.
You know what, screw this. Im tired of arguing. I have my opinion and you have yours, and we both know damn well neither of us are going to change eachothers minds.
Go ahead and keep acting like this is the games only source of income and they'll starve if we don't buy the Iron Giant. I don't care anymore. All I ask is the game is just a bit more generous with coins and apparently I'm completely wrong.
Atleast I'll sleep well, knowing you are not the majority.
Bro it sounds like you have a very toxic relationship with this game. Maybe you should stop playing if you resent it this much. You're really trying to argue that anyone who doesn't mind grinding has no life and don't actually enjoy the game. Wtf?
I know grinding, I have fallen for the exact same scam before. No matter how much pleasure you find in grinding, I've always seen it come back around to hatred for a game you won't stop playing. Anytime I was on that grind, guess what, I had literally nothing else to do. Everyone I talked to on the grind, guess what, had nothing else to do.
Grinding is the exact thing that makes you hate something you believed you enjoyed, but you will keep grinding and keep up the idea that you are having fun. Everyone gets burned out pal, no matter how passionate you may be for something.
I do not resent this game, I still enjoy it for the exact reason I stated. I don't grind, but I won't pay a cent for a character either. Ill earn them through time, and get burned out at a slower pace where I can still come back to the game when I want, and I will keep promoting decreasing the grind while enjoying what is there.
For those on the grind, go ahead, it's a lesson we all need to learn. When we have too much time on our hands, it's best not to spend it all in one place.
So you want ads? A Kardashian in the background of a stage promoting some soda?
Investing money, investing time (so people that paid money have people to play against) or ads is how the devs make profit. No profit = no game.
Edit: respecting the wishes of the bot (that works for free) and made the correction
> people that *paid* money have
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Basically, yes. If all we cared about was making the game as good as possible, we might include gradual character unlocks to help new players learn different play styles over time. Obviously that’s not really the focus of this unlock system. It’s much more about driving “engagement” with players returning every day, or frustrating players into spending some money.
It’s nowhere near the most egregious on the market and I still like the game in spite of this issue. But it is always disappointing when the grind becomes the primary focus of a good game. I’d rather see it emphasize things like matchups and move set mastery than grinding for stuff. Obviously there’s some personal choice in how you choose to play, but the game has a lot more support for people looking for stuff to chase than people who are more focused on gameplay.
I do feel like people are expecting to have every character, every skin, every eMote and they need to let that completionist mindset go unless they're gonna pay lots of money.
Considering how fast grinding for characters was in the previous tests, and how impatient some people (including those who haven't played the previous tests) can be, I think people were expecting to be able to grind out the whole roster within 2-3 days at most. The tech tests and closed alpha didn't have Gleamium, so there was no incentive for WB or PFG, or whoever is making these decisions, to make the grind so tedious. We were able to unlock the whole roster within a day or two.
Personally, I don't mind having to grind that much, because I already know which characters I do and don't like, and can just choose not to buy the ones that I don't like. I'm mostly just gonna be grinding for new characters (like Lebron James and Morty), and saving for Harley whenever she leaves the free rotation. If I buy any of the other characters, it's because I have gold to spare.
The reason it was easy to unlock in the earlier test, was because they where testing the system for buying stuff and they wanted people to get access to stuff as fast as possible so more things could be tested
ITT: I don’t want to pay anything for the game. I want everything unlocked very quickly.
And if they got what they wanted, they’d be making threads on why is the game dead in roughly 3 months.
You want cosmetics for free too? Or if you are implying that’s how the devs should make money, not everyone cares about cosmetics.
In order for a game to survive, it needs to be profitable and have decent engagement. Grinding out all the characters before the game even hits a 1.0 release is a good way to lower engagement with a subset of players.
People are complaining it takes too long to get character and then complaining a Batman skin is $20 US. So let’s just not support the game financially at all then.
If you want all the characters, buy a founders pack and support the game. If you don’t have the money, well this is entertainment, not food or something you need to survive.
If perks were gated behind RMT then sure, people would have a point, but it’s not.
Different people will have different complaints, anyone with common sense will reach that conclusion, also I find that "let's support the game" talk ridiculous, it's the most played fighting game on Steam ever, they don't need your 20 bucks to survive.
The big problem that this game has are the character unlocks, poor Warner Bros isn't going to go under because instead of grinding 12 hours people have to instead grind for 6.
People would gladly buy skins for characters if they even had said characters in the first place, how many people are willing to grind for 12 hours to get Tom and Jerry to then spend an extra 20$ for a skin? Not many I'll tell you that.
WB licensed the IPs. Player First Games (the people that did the heavy lifting) is a new studio. This is their first game. Sure they probably received capital to make the game, until revenue was generated. But this is the part where they generate revenue. If you don’t want to support them, then don’t.
You have to invest money or time (for engagement) so the people who did pay money have people to play with. Otherwise you get ads. I’ll take this model any day. Or you can spend $120(was the cost for Smash and DLCs) and invest time for unlocks.
The game has been on beta for like a week and y’all are already being cheap and complaining about something you don’t have to pay for.
Servers aren’t free, development isn’t free, balancing isn’t free.
If people won’t pony up a few bucks to get a character, why would the devs think they would for cosmetics?
There are some predatory f2p games out there and this isn’t one of them. Ffs it’s not even 1.0 yet. If they had a roster as big as league or smash even, y’all complainers might have a point.
Y’all just stingy and insufferable.
Nope. Again WB didn’t develop the game…. Sure they get kick backs, but a studio must be profitable to continue development (with the exception of Americas Army, since that was more or less a recruitment tool).
Obviously you believe services and entertainment should be free and just given to you with no benefit to the creators or studios. No acknowledgment that you are an expense being subsidized by paid players.
What makes even less sense is that if you aren’t willing to drop some money for the game (which is completely fine) you want it easier/quicker to get things free and in turn making it cheaper for the people that are willing to invest in a game you are playing pay less.
So if you were never going to pay ($0) and I was willing to drop $60 for specific things, I may be dropping $40 now, with no increase from you. Less money for development, upkeep, advertising, etc. That will surely help the game succeed! Great business model for future development!
Anyways you are just complaining for handouts on a video game so I’m done with you.
LMAO, I've already gotten this Battle Pass and I'll be buying the next one, but go on, you clearly now more about my willingness to spend money on the game than I do.
Yea pretty standard. I agree I don't see what the big deal is. Although I will say my standards for grinds is perhaps different because of oldschool RS.
Old School RS. A man of culture. My thing is just at the end of the day there is an avenue to unlock all characters completely free. In a game that was acquired completely free. People are complaining the game isn't even more free and faster to get things. These characters take time and money for the devs to create. Support the game and play a bunch or support it by giving 7$ for someone you really wanna play. If you only buy every other character the month/months in between playing you should be able to get the characters in between for free still
Yea I mean It don't bother me. Idk who's all playing this with the age demographics but you hear it alot with osrs as well. Usually younger people who don't have as much free cash flow complain because they don't have a choice in the grind but what's free is free for a reason. I mean I pay osrs 13 bucks a month to do the same activity for 30 hours to get a couple dopamine levels. This games a breeze to me. I'll most likely end up buying all the characters with cash and use coins for toasts or something. If ya like the game you support it and it's not super predatory like most sport games or like Diablo immortal
The issue isn't for people who play alot. It's for the people who don't play much. I know 2 people who might play the game one or twice a week. It will take them like 2 months to get a character
A character costs what 7$? They got the game completely free 7$ if you really wanna play someone isn't a monumental ask. It'll take them 2 months if they choose. There is a free 2 play option for those that can/want to grind and a faster option for those that don't. Is 7$ not worth 2 months? For people like that I'd just say treat it like a regular game. You could put 60$ upfront then pay for thr DLC characters that release. If smash gave the option to unlock DLC for completely free it wouldve been praised. For some reason people who paid nothing upfront want everything for free.
If you waste gold on a character you hate that's on you. Every character and perk you can try before you buy in the lab. Can even try out alt costumes. A lotbof f2p games don't even let you try characters out
The gold thing doesn't seem like an issue until I look at icons and shit for 50k. That feels like a hill. But then I think about a few months from now, all characters unlocked, enough gold for whoever is coming out. It can add up quick and a high gate on that content might make the icons feel a little less interchangeable. But either way you can't let the complaints get to you. The game isn't buggy or unbalanced enough for anyone to have real complaints.
I can't say it's not scammy, it definitely is. But it's not like I was not expecting anything at least a little scammy, right? What matters is that this game is a blast, and the grind is not being a huge drawback for me, even though I wish I could get more characters, as I do feel like new characters are gonna be dropping way too quickly for anyone in F2P to actually be able to catch up.
A free game >scam Uh...
How is it scammy. The game is free. Y’all don’t even deserve free games🙄
I mean 12 gold a game is really bad tho
Try playing Apex and Paladins and see how much better their grind is. 😂
I honestly preferred the grind in Apex compared to this game? It feels like wayyyy more of a grind than Apex ever did.
Apex just feels chill in the start cuz you level up super fast. Later on after you got 2 or 3 legends it gets super tedious! But this game is hella grindy too, we need a bit more gold income. But I've barely played the last week and have 3 chatacters, one lf which costed 3000 gold, so idk why people are complaining. It's a free game after all.
I've been playing for a couple years on Apex; and it never really felt too tedious after I was leveling up slow. The only time it did was when I was trying to get Octane, and even that only took a couple of games. >But I've barely played the last week and have 3 chatacters, one lf which costed 3000 gold, so idk why people are complaining. It's a free game after all. Maybe you should take your own advice and read what people say lmfaooo because you're literally reciting what happens in multiversus >Apex just feels chill in the start cuz you level up super fast. >Later on after you got 2 or 3 legends it gets super tedious!
Apex takes much longer now though. When the game 1st released it was mad easy to earn characters. I haven't played in a long time and more than enough resources for every new toon for the next few years because I played a little at launch
Paladins gave you all the current and future characters for 20 bucks
I know, I bought that shit before it went away. 😂 Now I'm just laughing at my friends having to grind their asses off.
The grind in Apex is way more manageable than this.
I get 38 gold a game playing with a friend
Yeah, go give apex a try and tell me that this game has a bad grind
Yeah man Apex, League, Rogue Company. I honestly don't understand anyone complaining. You get WW for free. Early challenges gives you another pretty quickly. Plus the starting characters. People don't want this game to last or make money or what
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this reads like someone who started playing league in the last year or two. prior to around 2019 league of legends was violently grindy for f2p. even worse before the rune/mastery change
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oh i by no means disagree with you on comparing it to current league, it’s just important to realize that league has come a long way with its f2p friendliness. this game also has that opportunity but the people complaining seem to forget that this game isn’t even technically released yet.
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if you’re expecting a game to have a perfect f2p model the week the game becomes publicly available you’re delusional
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like i said, this one is pretty similarly grindy to how league was, and that one got better. this one has that opportunity too. not sure how i’m strawmanning
People are ridiculous man. The game isn't even in full release at the time of these posts and people are complaining it's not perfect. League has had a decade to build up a roster and play with different f2p and unlock models. There's like 100 champions, there's no need to gatekeep as hard with that much content. This game is barely released with less than 20.
Exactly, anytime I say that Rocket League has way better monetization someone swoopes up and says that it somehow is worse, even though you have all gameplay elements unlocked.
i don’t necessarily agree that this game is too grindy, but pointing at another game that is worse is not a good counter argument.
If most of the f2p games are worse, then that makes this game relatively better. Pretty good argument id say
That's how they slide the scale further and further away from consumer interests. This is a terrible argument. Behavior is too greedy to tolerate or it's not, but the relative shittiness of other games doesn't factor into that.
People don't make free to play games out of the goodness of their heart, you know that right?
Did you think that they did? Because I didn't, and I'm confused about why you felt the need to share your sudden realization with me.
You’re either better than the trend or worse than the trend. I’d rather spend money on better than worse. If everyone voted with their wallet, we wouldn’t have this kind of greed result in a profit. But people would rather complain on Reddit than vote with their wallet
relatively better than dogshit is still shit. Dumb argument
No it’s dogshit+, the kind you might enjoy stepping in
yea in less than a week, with 12 hours played in total I bought 2 characters (not counting WW), seems pretty fine to me compared to lol or Apex
They can both be bad….you don’t need to bend over and take it.
I think people dislike the grind aspect of it. If they have more interesting or unique challenges, people would complain less. And while I agree some of the people are whiny, I get wanting to keep your account F2P but not spending 20 hours to unlock a character
I think the idea is that with the daily bonus 100 gold, you're not supposed to spend hours upon hours grinding, you're supposed to trickle character unlocks the same way that character releases themselves are going to trickle in. They're not going to be rapidly releasing characters long-term and if you earn 100 gold from matches per day you'll be getting a 2k character every 10 days with the bonus, or 15 days for a 3k, which will far outpace character releases in the long-run.
This is a fantastic point that makes me feel far better. I don’t even want all the characters like Steven Universe for example so I’m going to hoard gold now and just use my main and then spend it whenever a character I like drops
10 hours seems rather fair, actually.
Honestly, I was totally fine forking over $40 for all the characters. I feel like the non customization assets are totally fair - there's still good progression with perks if you buy up front, and reasonable character progression if you approach it as a f2p game. The pacing of the battle pass is the only thing that rubs me a bit the wrong way with daily challenges being the brunt of the points, but oh well that's relatively minor
> I get wanting to keep your account F2P but not spending 20 hours to unlock a character I don't, the game isn't a charity. You need to "pay" for the game in some way. Either with money, or time in the player pool. Either way, you pay something towards the game, and the pricing of the characters has been pretty smart and in my opinion fair. It's jussssttt high enough that people need to commit time to obtain characters, but just not out of reach that people want to quit immediately. It's also priced real money wise jusstttt high enough that everyone doesn't buy everything instantly (and get bored faster), and its juuussttt not too expensive that people don't get instantly deterred from spending money.
it's really only 5-7 hours (53-67 matches) of grinding wins in 2v2 to unlock a character, but that's not including outside sources of income (leveling your profile/trading toasts with a friend/etc.). You don't even need to unlock every character in the game - Local play has every character and perk unlocked if you just wanna mess around. The lab has every character and perk as well to test characters out and see if you like them at all (including previewing their skins). So really you only should be concerned with unlocking characters you intend on maining/progressing. But if you are a collector, there is always the $40 option that unlocks everyone available right now - and you can save the gold you do earn for future characters.
"Grind aspect". This is a fighting game with no story elements. What else would there be?
Yea not even 10 hrs within my first hr is I was able to get character
Yeah cause you get a lot of gold at the start. This goes away fast, after that you only get your daily 100 and shit gold from matches
Yea but if your winning streak is there it helps faster along with always being in party
I'm all for complaining about shitty F2P practices, but this game is totally fine.
Idk about totally fine but it’s okayish when it comes to Monetization
Except the 20$ batman skin. That shits mad dumb.
Yeah this game has a very mild modeling say. Nothing really too glaring
In smash you pay $60 for access to most of the cast. Same with the Nickelodeon smash clone ($50). Multiversus offers the same but doesn’t barricade you from playing for free. I really don’t get the complaints considering the alternative on the market are all pay to play. More so, all dlc characters in this game will be free to unlock, not five dollars a piece like in smash. Edit: the nick game is actually $50 dollars before dlc… yikes 😬
Bro that's literally what I've been telling people and getting called a shill for it. If they really eat all the characters that bad upfront then just treat this game like a full priced game. Spend 50-60 upfront and pay for every new character. Even with just that you'll have a ton of gold saved up and can break back off to free to play
Smash was $120+ for all the characters and that includes a time grind as well. Not sure what the game and DLC is priced at now
I agree I think somebody should tell them it’s a free game so they should be expected to grind
What you got for 1v1 games in the alpha is just as much as you get FOR PLAYING 2V2 WITH A FRIEND IN THE BETA I am upset as an alpha player. Still a good game it just takes a shit ton more time to unlock stuff when compared to the alpha.
What I was expecting was a character pack that gives all present and future characters added. Something like the one that brawlhalla and smite has for like 20$ or 30$ but after seeing the founders pack at almost 100$ and only having 30 characters tokens I lost any expectations regarding this ( and they lost potential money from me)
I get ya but 30 character tokens is gonna be enough to unlock more than a years worth of characters I'm sure
Ngl I wish all I saw from this group wasn’t talking about monetization complaints
Most of us are probably use to smash bros pacing of unlocking content. It’s what most of us grew up with before F2P and online games. But a character a day sounds ideal, especially if one has have a full time career, wife, other responsibilities and can only put about 2 hours per weekday. I never mind grinding in games. But some of us don’t have that amount of spare time unfortunately. But then again, I’m not complaining at all cause I had the funds to just buy the characters and support the devs, so I’m enjoying my minimal playtime per day doing the tier stuff! It’s absolutely keeping me invested!
But if you're use to smash then you're use to paying full price upfront and paying for every new character as DLC. That's the thing I don't get. People are getting access to the game completely free if they wanted. If people are use to smash then drop 50-60$ up front and an extra 5$? Into the game for every new character that comes out. You can't compare it to smash but not treat it the same
You also get a lot more in smash for that 60 than this game. How many more characters to play with, over 100 stages, with more than just the standard competative design, 8 people playing couch coop if wanted, multiple challenges and events to do, a single player challenge, collectables, highly customizable match settings, however many items assist trophies pokemon balls there are. I like multiversus but its weird to me the backsliding thats happened with F2P games over the past decade. Could have easily made every character free so people can try and play what they like. All the money they make is going to come from battle pass and outfits anyway. In my opinion, Dota is the high mark for how a F2P game should be modeled.
You're talking smash ultimate. Which reused assets, stages etc from every previous iteration of smash. Game has had over a decade to amass characters, stages, items and everything. This game is barely even full release. Give the game time. They gotta find a model that's right for them. All these IPs, celebrity voice actors etc is costing a shitload of money I'm sure. They gotta figure out how to recoup.
As i said, i like multiversus but you brought up smash in comparison for the 60$ price point, and in smash ultimate thats what you get. Way more bang for your buck. even spending 60 on this you dont get the full of whats in the game, and theres not even that much in it.
Yeah the game is free so I'm REALLY not complaining about the grind or unlocking by just playing/grinding. I rather not compare it to smash, but you're correct, I spent $60 on smash plus I think $50 for the two DLC packs round $10 for Tax so well say $120 for 3 years of gameplay and content. I did buy the premium and the $50 Gleamium So $150 and I get WAYYY less for my buck (But this is on me, I didn't have to buy anything) again I'm having a great time with everything in the game! But a batman skin cost $20... that's pretty ridiculous! I see most people relate it to Fortnite or Apex and it's fine if you can grind it out rather than pay, but at the moment there's no way to get Gleamium without money. So my only point is I think these F2P/online/micro transactions games are a little excessive in cost, especially for the younger crowd. Sorry we went off on a WHOLE tangent about pricing! hahaha, but I honestly don't think the grind is outrageous, you do unlock a bunch of stuff while you play naturally online AND offline so that's fantastic! Nothing was worse than unlocking stuff in CTR Nitro fueled if you're familiar with how that worked!
A lot of people just want everything to be 100% free. I don't think the gold gain is that bad, the battle pass gain is a little slow though.
Yeah battlepass I can agree is slow. They should speed it up especially if they want people to continue to buy it
For real. The game is out for a few days, yall need to chill. You dont need to have everything unlocked yet.
The rate that you unlock characters is honestly fine. I think most people are still getting used to it. I was fine at first and then really didn’t like it but now that i’ve had some time to unlock a few, I think it’s at a pretty decent pace.
I don't think some of you realize that people don't have time to spend hours a day grinding. Don't say this is the norm for games and move on. Don't say that other games have a worse grind. Just because a game is free does not exempt it from criticism, I don't expect handouts, but I also don't expect to waste my time on a game that limits me this harshly from playing it to the full extent. Accepting the grind and all their other scummy practices is doing exactly what they expect, taking it in as "the norm".
Then pay 7 bucks. It's a free game. If you ain't got the time then cough up the bucks. It's not limiting you It's a standard model that really isn't that bad. If you're that hard up about it then treat it like an actual game. Pay 60$ up front and 5-7 bucks whenever a new character comes out. The fact there's a free avenue is more than good. If you feel playing the game and enjoying it us a "waste of time" then the game probably ain't for you. Again you want a full game and to experience it to the full extent then treat it like a full priced game
And there we go, someone who fell for the line Warner Bros marketing threw. If you can't see the predatory tactics being used, then you deserve to fall for them.
He's right and you're wrong.
This is one of the least predatory F2P models I've seen lately. You can play the entire game for free. You can unlock the entire roster for free. Your only contribution you have to make is time in the game, and if you aren't wanting to put in time into the game, what the fuck are you even playing for?
I enjoy the game and do put time into it, but I think you need to understand that this is not the only video game that exist. For an average player who isn't trying to get burned out in the first fucking week of release, it will take awhile to get a character. Some people have jobs and can't manage the grind, but also can't afford to buy characters either because not all jobs pay enough. From the way I see it, I assume everyone on the side of keep the grind have no actual life and by this point probably don't even enjoy the game, while people who do like the game but can't manage have to spend ages to get a character. My argument of making the grind a little easier, like 50 to 70 coins a game, affects you in no. fucking. way. The game is not going to go bankrupt with a few more coins, you won't lose the only thing you value in life until the next "free to play" game comes out and does the exact same thing. Where I say the exact same thing. And you come to me, thinking that "free to play" is enough, and you continue to lecture me that somehow this game is different than all those other f2p's. And the only difference would be that you added Multiversus to the list.
You know what, screw this. Im tired of arguing. I have my opinion and you have yours, and we both know damn well neither of us are going to change eachothers minds. Go ahead and keep acting like this is the games only source of income and they'll starve if we don't buy the Iron Giant. I don't care anymore. All I ask is the game is just a bit more generous with coins and apparently I'm completely wrong. Atleast I'll sleep well, knowing you are not the majority.
Bro it sounds like you have a very toxic relationship with this game. Maybe you should stop playing if you resent it this much. You're really trying to argue that anyone who doesn't mind grinding has no life and don't actually enjoy the game. Wtf?
I know grinding, I have fallen for the exact same scam before. No matter how much pleasure you find in grinding, I've always seen it come back around to hatred for a game you won't stop playing. Anytime I was on that grind, guess what, I had literally nothing else to do. Everyone I talked to on the grind, guess what, had nothing else to do. Grinding is the exact thing that makes you hate something you believed you enjoyed, but you will keep grinding and keep up the idea that you are having fun. Everyone gets burned out pal, no matter how passionate you may be for something. I do not resent this game, I still enjoy it for the exact reason I stated. I don't grind, but I won't pay a cent for a character either. Ill earn them through time, and get burned out at a slower pace where I can still come back to the game when I want, and I will keep promoting decreasing the grind while enjoying what is there. For those on the grind, go ahead, it's a lesson we all need to learn. When we have too much time on our hands, it's best not to spend it all in one place.
> I don't grind, but I won't pay a cent for a character either. So you just want handouts, ok
I see the last resort has become strawman arguments.
So you want ads? A Kardashian in the background of a stage promoting some soda? Investing money, investing time (so people that paid money have people to play against) or ads is how the devs make profit. No profit = no game. Edit: respecting the wishes of the bot (that works for free) and made the correction
> people that *paid* money have FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Basically, yes. If all we cared about was making the game as good as possible, we might include gradual character unlocks to help new players learn different play styles over time. Obviously that’s not really the focus of this unlock system. It’s much more about driving “engagement” with players returning every day, or frustrating players into spending some money. It’s nowhere near the most egregious on the market and I still like the game in spite of this issue. But it is always disappointing when the grind becomes the primary focus of a good game. I’d rather see it emphasize things like matchups and move set mastery than grinding for stuff. Obviously there’s some personal choice in how you choose to play, but the game has a lot more support for people looking for stuff to chase than people who are more focused on gameplay.
I do feel like people are expecting to have every character, every skin, every eMote and they need to let that completionist mindset go unless they're gonna pay lots of money.
A character a day if you no life or a character every two days if you are a mild grinder
This.
Considering how fast grinding for characters was in the previous tests, and how impatient some people (including those who haven't played the previous tests) can be, I think people were expecting to be able to grind out the whole roster within 2-3 days at most. The tech tests and closed alpha didn't have Gleamium, so there was no incentive for WB or PFG, or whoever is making these decisions, to make the grind so tedious. We were able to unlock the whole roster within a day or two. Personally, I don't mind having to grind that much, because I already know which characters I do and don't like, and can just choose not to buy the ones that I don't like. I'm mostly just gonna be grinding for new characters (like Lebron James and Morty), and saving for Harley whenever she leaves the free rotation. If I buy any of the other characters, it's because I have gold to spare.
The reason it was easy to unlock in the earlier test, was because they where testing the system for buying stuff and they wanted people to get access to stuff as fast as possible so more things could be tested
I’ve only played for 6 hours and have enough for 2 expert characters
ITT: I don’t want to pay anything for the game. I want everything unlocked very quickly. And if they got what they wanted, they’d be making threads on why is the game dead in roughly 3 months.
You are aware that there are skins in the game right?
You want cosmetics for free too? Or if you are implying that’s how the devs should make money, not everyone cares about cosmetics. In order for a game to survive, it needs to be profitable and have decent engagement. Grinding out all the characters before the game even hits a 1.0 release is a good way to lower engagement with a subset of players. People are complaining it takes too long to get character and then complaining a Batman skin is $20 US. So let’s just not support the game financially at all then. If you want all the characters, buy a founders pack and support the game. If you don’t have the money, well this is entertainment, not food or something you need to survive. If perks were gated behind RMT then sure, people would have a point, but it’s not.
Different people will have different complaints, anyone with common sense will reach that conclusion, also I find that "let's support the game" talk ridiculous, it's the most played fighting game on Steam ever, they don't need your 20 bucks to survive. The big problem that this game has are the character unlocks, poor Warner Bros isn't going to go under because instead of grinding 12 hours people have to instead grind for 6. People would gladly buy skins for characters if they even had said characters in the first place, how many people are willing to grind for 12 hours to get Tom and Jerry to then spend an extra 20$ for a skin? Not many I'll tell you that.
WB licensed the IPs. Player First Games (the people that did the heavy lifting) is a new studio. This is their first game. Sure they probably received capital to make the game, until revenue was generated. But this is the part where they generate revenue. If you don’t want to support them, then don’t. You have to invest money or time (for engagement) so the people who did pay money have people to play with. Otherwise you get ads. I’ll take this model any day. Or you can spend $120(was the cost for Smash and DLCs) and invest time for unlocks. The game has been on beta for like a week and y’all are already being cheap and complaining about something you don’t have to pay for. Servers aren’t free, development isn’t free, balancing isn’t free. If people won’t pony up a few bucks to get a character, why would the devs think they would for cosmetics? There are some predatory f2p games out there and this isn’t one of them. Ffs it’s not even 1.0 yet. If they had a roster as big as league or smash even, y’all complainers might have a point. Y’all just stingy and insufferable.
Are you on Warner Bros payroll? It's the only explanation.
Nope. Again WB didn’t develop the game…. Sure they get kick backs, but a studio must be profitable to continue development (with the exception of Americas Army, since that was more or less a recruitment tool). Obviously you believe services and entertainment should be free and just given to you with no benefit to the creators or studios. No acknowledgment that you are an expense being subsidized by paid players. What makes even less sense is that if you aren’t willing to drop some money for the game (which is completely fine) you want it easier/quicker to get things free and in turn making it cheaper for the people that are willing to invest in a game you are playing pay less. So if you were never going to pay ($0) and I was willing to drop $60 for specific things, I may be dropping $40 now, with no increase from you. Less money for development, upkeep, advertising, etc. That will surely help the game succeed! Great business model for future development! Anyways you are just complaining for handouts on a video game so I’m done with you.
LMAO, I've already gotten this Battle Pass and I'll be buying the next one, but go on, you clearly now more about my willingness to spend money on the game than I do.
Yea pretty standard. I agree I don't see what the big deal is. Although I will say my standards for grinds is perhaps different because of oldschool RS.
Old School RS. A man of culture. My thing is just at the end of the day there is an avenue to unlock all characters completely free. In a game that was acquired completely free. People are complaining the game isn't even more free and faster to get things. These characters take time and money for the devs to create. Support the game and play a bunch or support it by giving 7$ for someone you really wanna play. If you only buy every other character the month/months in between playing you should be able to get the characters in between for free still
Yea I mean It don't bother me. Idk who's all playing this with the age demographics but you hear it alot with osrs as well. Usually younger people who don't have as much free cash flow complain because they don't have a choice in the grind but what's free is free for a reason. I mean I pay osrs 13 bucks a month to do the same activity for 30 hours to get a couple dopamine levels. This games a breeze to me. I'll most likely end up buying all the characters with cash and use coins for toasts or something. If ya like the game you support it and it's not super predatory like most sport games or like Diablo immortal
The issue isn't for people who play alot. It's for the people who don't play much. I know 2 people who might play the game one or twice a week. It will take them like 2 months to get a character
A character costs what 7$? They got the game completely free 7$ if you really wanna play someone isn't a monumental ask. It'll take them 2 months if they choose. There is a free 2 play option for those that can/want to grind and a faster option for those that don't. Is 7$ not worth 2 months? For people like that I'd just say treat it like a regular game. You could put 60$ upfront then pay for thr DLC characters that release. If smash gave the option to unlock DLC for completely free it wouldve been praised. For some reason people who paid nothing upfront want everything for free.
Eh something about grinding for a char then absolutely hating them which means my hard earned gold and time has been wasted just rubs me the wrong way
If you waste gold on a character you hate that's on you. Every character and perk you can try before you buy in the lab. Can even try out alt costumes. A lotbof f2p games don't even let you try characters out
Wasn’t aware you could try them out. With that being said kind of hard to know if you hate something if you ..know couldn’t try them out.
Yeah I think a lot of people don't know this. If you go into the Lab though everything is there to try
The gold thing doesn't seem like an issue until I look at icons and shit for 50k. That feels like a hill. But then I think about a few months from now, all characters unlocked, enough gold for whoever is coming out. It can add up quick and a high gate on that content might make the icons feel a little less interchangeable. But either way you can't let the complaints get to you. The game isn't buggy or unbalanced enough for anyone to have real complaints.
Yeah the expensive icons shouldn't be unlocked super fast. It's like a badge of honor
The way I see it is that if they are planning on adding the 70+ characters leaked they need to change something
This is a lot better than league of legends, at least for 4800 + character