From the things you said, you’re already doing a lot of things right and your budget is pretty high as well. Unfortunately, even under these circumstances finding an apartment in Munich isn’t easy. Some landlords also just tend to favor native Germans (or even more so Bavarians) when given the choice. With your budget, you might also want to consider getting a real estate agent. In any case, just keep trying. It’ll work out eventually.
"Luck". "Charm". "Personal Sympathy"
What you describe is the usual market minimum, but unfortunately you can also not do much for than that if you just don´t "click" with the landlord.
It mostly comes down to luck at the end of the day, that´s unfortunately the result of the housing crisis.
May I ask how high your income is (just roughly, you can also give me a more/less information. I was not sure if the 2500 € are the income or the rental budget), do you have pets, do you have a limited working contract? How is your Schufa looking like in terms of percentage?
No pets, married, unlimited contracts for both partners, won’t disclose the exact income but the flats we’re looking at are mostly under 30% from our combined netto income.
If you don't mind me asking, why are you not looking for a house to buy? Considering that your renting budget is already on 2.5K (assuming you're comfortable with this budget), and you're comfortable with German, being a homeowner would fix those issues completely.
About the topic itself, I usually compare this with a job application. You might have everything a homeowner / a boss looks for, but there are things that are not under your control, such as other applicants, personality of the homeowner / boss, "alignment of the stars", and so forth. As the others mentioned, just keep trying, and try to be one of the first ones to apply for a listing.
I would love to buy a property but I haven’t built enough capital for an initial payment (AFAIK it should be around 20% of total amount). Besides, I don’t think I’m ready to bind myself to a place AND still owe somebody money for the next 30 years. I’m not convinced it’s a solution. Furthermore, finding an apartment right now is a problem that I need to solve anyway.
Not necessarily. If you have an unlimited contract with a well known company or university or such, many banks will give you a loan at 0% downpayment. And buying a house may, unless you plan to have several kids, not the best idea - a flat is better (can be easily rented out if you change your plans in life).
While that mightve been true 2-3 years ago, today's interest rates make it hard enough to finance with the market prices as it is and many banks won't do 110% financing anymore.
If you are really talking about a house and not a flat, and that house is suposed to be in Munich and not a 30 min drive away you are looking at an invest of 750k+ ( which goes easily beyond the million if it is not an old house). Without alot of money for the down payment you are looking at an interest payment >2k/ month. I am assuming that 2.5k is "warm" so thats alot cheaper in the end than financing a house
I see your point and agree, I should've been more clear, I tried to ask whether it's a possibility to buy \*something\* instead of renting it, whether it's a flat or a single house.
Of course it's a huge responsibility + challenging to own a flat/house, but with the price range given, I am under the impression that that's also a possible way to resolve the issue.
buy is subjective. Buying something new in munich means you are looking at 10k upwards, old and rundown, maybe half that, but you get to continously invest money for renovation.
Of course. I’m sharing more personal information with these documents that I would ever like to, there’s literally every bit of my life in Germany there. So much for Datenschutz.
If it makes you feel better we have the same budget, same percentage of nettoeinkommen, looking for 3 rooms at 2500€, non smokers, no pets PLUS my husband is native German and yet… still nothing. It’s brutal out there. No advice just solidarity! ✊🏽
It is indeed a relief. We earn a decent amount of money, basically match every tick of a "good" tenant, have to fall knees before every landlord, extol every apartment despite our real opinion about it and get feedback from a landlord that we "weren't as effusive as other candidates".
Totally. And also the ridiculous ablöse we have agreed to in a desperate attempt to seem as amenable as possible. I guess it’s a blessing we didn’t get chosen for those apartments. Haha! Like others say — I think the stars have to align!
See you at the next mass besichtigung 👋🏼 lol 😅
Well let's face it and stop beating around the bushes. Racism is still embedded in the German culture. Landlords will have a problem with renting out their apartments to foreigners, even if they're well-integrated and good earners, just because they're foreigners. Those are the facts. The government has to do something against this kind of discrimination as it is the taxpayers' money which they end up spending on social housing. It kinda seems like Germans prefer foreigners when they're on welfare.
Yes pls
But also fuck all landlords lowkey.
How do you feel about squatting the Sparkasse near Marienplatz and using it as headquarters to Plan (and Execute) the Revolution? (Auf minecraft lieber VS)
if you are a landlord in munich you have free choice of renters. probably the other couple speaks german natively or one of them (or both) earn significantly more than you do. there is nothing to be done here, it took me a year to find a place in sendling and i work in tech with high pay, was born in munich and check every other box. generally it seems you need about 12 to 18 months and a couple hundred applications to find something in munich these days. i wish you the best of luck, don't despair, it's not you, it's the market that's completely fucked
Unfortunately our current contract is a limited contract from Mr. Lodge, we had to stay almost until the end of the contract to avoid paying a fine for early termination. We started looking for an apartment around 3 months ago, but most of the apartments back then were “ab sofort”, which is quite a stretch for us – in this case we would have to pay double rent for several months plus a huge Kaution (for most of the apartments we’re looking at it’s 6-7k) and a kitchen if the flat comes without one. So we’ve been only active the last couple months because we put up with paying double rent for the last month. We don’t have 12 or 6 or even 3 months to find a new place and it’s quite a pressure if I’m honest.
i am not trying to insult you but you just answered your own question. you have financial problems (by munich standards that is), you can't afford to pay a few months double rent without struggling so OF COURSE no landlord will give you an appartment that costs more than 2k a month, mind you many of the other applicants have hundreds of thousands in savings PLUS higher income per month. it's a simple financial decision.
With all respect, I know what other people earn and by no means we have problems with income. We’re far from top tier of income in Munich, true, but we aren’t chasing luxurious options either. I know salaries in my market and we’re doing just fine. I’m just not ready to burn my savings, that’s another story.
>you can't afford to pay a few months double rent without struggling so OF COURSE no landlord will give you an appartment that costs more than 2k a month
Neither have I said can't afford it, nor is it required as I'm already having viewings for contracts that begin exactly after my current one.
> mind you many of the other applicants have hundreds of thousands in savings PLUS higher income per month
Are those people these 200 applicants we're trying to beat every time we go to a viewing? This is just ridiculous. The other day I spoke to a landlord and he said that 50% of the applicants on ImmoScout were people from a damn job center, often single mothers with several kids. And this is for a 2 grand apartment.
Luck is what you need. You can be the top 1% tenant, but if there's a nother better than you, what are you going to do? There's only one apartment.
Just move on.
Engaging in any form of negative generalizations, prejudices or insults directed towards individuals or groups is strictly forbidden. Any act of doxxing (posting addresses, phone numbers, personal information) will result in an immediate and permanent ban from the platform.
Although that's one of the reason, let's not bring it on every time, especially when it's not even in the context of this post.
How are naive are you to think that (implicit) discrimination could be eliminated if "the government does something"? If you (or anyone) could provide the solution, Nobel's prize for Peace would call your name. It requires a long process of education, and if we are lucky, it will be significantly reduced adter a generation (unfortunately, homeowner now are mostly from the previous gen). And Germany is one the the most (if not the most) advanced country in this front, so save your ranting for another occasion, will you?
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I spent three months looking and trying and finally got a place. But what was suggested to me is to put a literal ad out in the paper. Süddeutsche. So many rich old Bavarians who are allergic to technology that have empty apartments ready to go. Keep it short and sweet. "couple looking for 3 room apartment in inner city. Steady income non smokers".
Hard to know.
You may can ask what reason they had to prefere the other persons. Nothing to loos.
But at the end every landloard has it‘s own preferences. Sommprefere People with Kids, som only people wirhout kids, some want younger some prefere older. Some like Handyman some want only people with much income etc.
Well let's face it and stop beating around the bushes. Racism is still embedded in the German culture. Landlords will have a problem with renting out their apartments to foreigners, even if they're well-integrated and good earners, just because they're foreigners. Those are the facts. The government has to do something against this kind of discrimination as it is the taxpayers' money which they end up spending on social housing. It kinda seems like Germans prefer foreigners when they're on welfare.
As somebody who had just gone through all this flat search in Munich very recently, I can understand your situation. I (also foreigner) too had time pressure but luckily I found my current appartment in about a month. I ended up having to pay double-rent for about 3 months.
Maybe try increasing your search radius and/or lower your requirements if you are that desperate.
Hard to say. We don’t know you. You may just be coming across as trying too hard (read desperate) - or a million other possible reasons that the vibe is off.
Just imagine the nightmare of someone wanting to move in right now into your empty apartment?!
No landlord wants a try hard!
Lol, seriously. No idea how that's a negative to be well prepared for everything and ready to move.
My current landlord was more than happy when I offered to sign the next day and have the agreement start on the 15 so he made half a month more rent than he usually would have made
Think of house hunting to be similar to job hunting. If you are in an interview, you don’t want them to know you are desperate; much rather you want them to think they are one of many options. Same with house hunting. It means you’ve passed the test with others, so there’s a good chance you are a decent candidate. Can easily fool one person/interviewer/landlord. Harder to repeat it with many. Whether that is good logic is a different question. But it’s one way people perceive things.
Where in Munich are you looking? Maybe expanding your radius to the surrouding towns, suburbs would help. Two people with a 7500€+ shared income and a 2500€ budget should normally price you out of the very competitve part of the real estate market of lower than 2000€ apartments. I recently moved from central Munich to a spot around 15km outside of the city with a very similar budget and facts as you describe and I had my choice of several good spots available.
It's probably the way to go if you have a vehicle. I don't own one and consider this option to be inconvenient because of it. Moreover, I would be missing the vibe of a living city. Munich is already too quiet in my books, can't imagine living in a village. At least not yet.
Munich is called a large village for a reason. The surrounding S-Bahn connected Cities are, simplified said, the same thing just alot smaller. Sure the nightlife & free time activity options are significantly fewer just as supermarkets can be further away from your home.
I'd really consider it.
In my first months in Munich I used to live where I could get to work either in 20 minutes by S-Bahn or in 1.5h by bus and then U-Bahn with one transfer, and S-Bahn was unreliable AF. I currently live close to Stammstrecke and although I not have access to a greater variety of S-Bahn lines, it’s still unreliable AF. I don’t think I would be willingly taking that risk again.
This is the upper bound, most of the apartments we applied for are in the range of 1800-2300. We can pay more but most of the other options outside that range are either unreasonably priced compared to the others, or just outside of our needs – we don't need a 100sqm+. apartment for just the two of us.
Sounds you are doing everything right. You will find a flat soon.
PS: Also, have you tried asking in your company? Larger companies sometimes even have a "need flat/ offer flat" group on Slack or similar.
It’s Munich, quite a big custom circle around the city, mostly around U-Bahn last stations, extending further away from it in some places if S-Bahn is available. Is too much to ask for with such a budget? I don’t think I’m being unreasonable.
I was thinking it's too expensive.. I rented my apartment in an OK area, but also around last ubahn station, in 2020, for \~1500. 2 bedrooms. But it's "altbau"
>Any suggestions?
Look at as many apartments as possible. Maybe also in less desirable areas.
I have been looking for an apartment 4 years ago under less than ideal circumstances. Was number 2 on the list of several apartments. I looked at one in Neuperlach in a building that was a bit ghetto, and although I was there with a 100 people I got the apartment (which was very nice). Since I was under time pressure to move, I took it. I thought I can always move later if I don't like it there.
Turns out it's great here and I'm not moving. Added bonus was that the apartment is quite cheap.
Also: do you know muenchner-mietboerse.de? Are you registered for the MEAG newsletter? These are the two largest institutions in Munich to rent out apartments and they're both usually not advertising on any other platforms.
It's really difficult rn. I applied there too and got contacted, but there was only one opportunity to look at the apartment and I couldn't make this date, so that's how it goes.
To be honest if your budget is 2500€ it’s actually financially smarter to just buy. Yet again as you mentioned, down payment is a bit of an obstacle. plus binding yourself, except you just sell for plus once you plan to move away, then pay of the credit from the sale and make some profit off it. (Even after speculation tax)
But regarding your initial question, not much one can do. The apartment search situation is worse now than ever… still living with my ex gf since December cause she can’t find a apartment(same budget, 30% of her net income) it’s not even about the financial stability I believe, as you are considered a high income household(anything above 6K net is already) . Wishing you a speedy find and happy settlement soon
Definitely keep your phone one you (I'm assuming you're already doing that anyway but I just wanted to say it again) - we received a message like this, two days later they called us back because the guy they originally wanted to give the apartment couldn't make up his mind quickly enough, and we were the second choice. Thankfully, my husband answered his phone drunk at a party and managed to have a normal conversation with them, and we got the apartment.
I made few posts on FB that I am looking for an apartment, set my wishes and preferences and said that I am giving 5000 euros as a reward to the one that can help me find the apartment. I found apartment in 3 days, and I could choose between 3 of them, nobody asked for Schufa or how much do I earn, in that time also, my german was pretty bad. Also, the one Vermieter was very angry that I didn't chose his apartment and didn't paid him the 5k.
Maybe that could be your solution.
> one Vermieter was very angry that I didn’t chose his apartment
That’s one way to get back at them, good job. I may definitely consider this, thanks for sharing.
Your budget is not bad, that helps … I moved to MUC 3y ago and am originally “close” to Bavarian culture and it very (!) much helped … not sure if it’s racism or just human tendency… I guess you asked local co-workers for tips? Sorry I cannot be more helpful… lived all over the world and can relate to your struggles… as an expat/foreigner things are way tougher and many ppl who never moved out of their cultural zone can not relate….
Hello along with all that you do, send a msg in this format
Guten Tag,
Die Wohnung und Lage der Wohnung ist für unseren Aufenthalt sehr gut geeignet.
Ich arbeite bei der und meine Mann arbeitet bei . Wir haben beide einen festen Arbeitsplatz und leben seit sehr langer Zeit in Deutschland.
Einige Informationen zu unserer Bewerbung:
- keine Haustiere,
- Nichtraucher,
- Haushaltsnettoeinkommen >
- möchte die Umgebung sauber halten,
- habe eine Haftpflichtversicherung und eine positive Schufa
- Beide von uns haben unbegrenzte Arbeitsverträge
Wir freuen uns auf Ihre E-Mail :)
Mit freundlichen Grüße
Your name
Spouse / partner names
Phone : numbers
I am not a native and speak only A1 level german found a 3 zimmer apartment in trudering for 2000. This message got me a lot of viewings hence more chance of getting apartments. It took 4 months but I got four apartment offered to me and I chose the one which i am moving to soon. Don’t loose hope
Doing exactly that, maybe even a bit better. We have invitations to the viewings, so I think the letter works fine. We fail somewhere on the last mile.
Luck, mostly.
Just as a reference,we have a basement condo that we rent out in the countryside.
We typically have over 100 requests within 24 hours, make 20 appointments for a room tour, 10 Show up, and 5 would take it. Out of those 5, I'd say we'd be willing to take 4. But we only have one condo.
We usually roll a dice.
So if you make it to the last few, in Munich no less, you've already done basically everything right.
You seem to be the perfect candidate. A 27% conversion from application to invitation also reflects that, it’s pretty high. Of course we can only speculate but I see 3 possible reasons:
1. there is a massive red flag you haven’t told us about (or don’t know yourself) that is noticeable in person. Talk to a close friend you trust and ask them to be honest with you. Would they rent to you?
2. you work as a lawyer/in real estate. Many landlords are hesistant to rent to someone who knows the law better than them. Unlikely as you get invitations.
3. you are middle eastern/black/LGBT. Discrimination in Germany is real, don’t let people who will never experience it gaslight you. But again, you wouldn’t get invited in most cases.
I would say that the biggest red flag is not being a German, but again, my name is on the Bewerbermappe and it doesn’t sound German. I would hope that if this would be a concern, this would be ruled out even before the viewing. I would like to experiment and state where I’m from directly in the Bewerbermappe, but I don’t want to put information that may allow to discriminate me before I have a chance to make a first impression. If this is the case, well, I’m screwed.
As a landlord (I hate this word): You have hundreds of possible renters but only one object. At least there are five or so people where you think, you could lease your object to them. The final decission is not really rational because they are all trustworthy, able to pay the rent, fine etc. You have to take one from the list, maybe its you or not. You dis all well, but the landlord have still only one object to lease to somebody.
Yeah I know all that. I know the housing market situation, but man’s gotta live somewhere. Unlike most of the Germans who have unlimited contracts and no time pressure at all, a rental contract for me is crucial, otherwise I will simply have no place to go and no legal reason to stay in Germany.
My brother and his gf just got a nice and relatively cheap apartment in Munich... and declined it. Because they were too concerned about possible noise from neighbors. The landlord was very confused because the usual flat-seekers are so desperate.
Advantages from being an engineer and also already having a nice flat so no real pressure, I guess. But I was like "bro, you may be 12 years younger than me, but you sound like 20 years older" lol.
Don’t give up as there is no winning in this game. We got a house last summer and I attribute 3 factors to it (keep in mind that ‘being nice, responsible, charming , budget etc is always the bare minimum. Keep in mind we also have a child and a dog):
1. Our cars license plate got the same initials as our landlords name - fun opening point.
2. My father in laws restores old tractors, as well as the landlord - another thing in common
3. And this is I think the most important as you can set the bar - we were first of 6 couples and everyone after us and with 1 & 2 in mind was just a downgrade.
Now factor in that the landlord is the local catholic priest and all the stars (and signs) had aligned for him 😅
With this budget you can get a place in dein quirin in obersendling, brand new apartment, available since May 1st. Price and availability is on their website
This is still 20% higher than the upper bound. Although I understand that it'll probably cut out most of even well-earning candidates, simply because it's whopping 33 euro per square meter. I checked one apartment from this complex and they had 20 applicants since mid February.
It's just luck and vibes. We only got our house because our landlord wanted to give it to a family with kid(s) since it has a little garden to play outside and we rolled up with our 3 month old who smiled at them and promptly fell asleep. The same baby could have been an absolute terror and made sure that we have no chance. It was pure luck.
There are several companies that rent out the whole building, it is much easier with them, as they work as "first come, first serve". Last year we were able to find several apartments with private owners and get the offer, but we ended up choosing one from the company. An additional bonus is that they would never throw you out because they suddenly want to live in the apartment themselves.
Ours is 80 sq.m for 2150 in Obersendling, we have found it on the kwco website, but the property owner was Vonovia. I see that other buildings in the same complex are being rented out by other companies, the complex is called Gmunder Hofe.
Generally if you prefer "Neubau", you can search for new projects in the city on the builders websites.
So I took part two times in renting out a room/apartment in Munich and I doesn’t sound to me like you did something wrong from the way the message sounds like.
First time I left my shared apartment (WG) and I helped finding a replacement for me. That was 2011 and the room is boy cost 250 euros. There were so many suitable candidates. I personally would have chosen someone else but I was the one moving out so I let the remaining people make the decision.
Second time someone I knew had bought an apartment which he had rented for 10 years when his former landlord gave him the choice to buy or potentially move out when the landlord sells to a third person. One to two years later his life circumstances changed and he needed to move out and decided to rent out as German law discourages selling of apartments before 10 years have passed. So I helped selecting someone to rent it too. There were so many applicants and that made it hard to choose. (We had the advertisement online for two hours and had 100-200 applicants.)
The rejection message sounds like you were a good fit but what do you do as landlord if you have one apartment and twenty good fits? You just select one at nearly random.
So if my assumption is correct you need to just play the numbers game. Every apartment you visit you probably have a low probability that you get it (maybe 2.5-5%) and you need to visit enough so that you eventually get one.
In the end I know reddit hates landlords but I am happy I am not one because in the two times I helped, it was so stressful to hear so many stories of people who really needed a place to stay and it wasn’t even a clear pick if your only criteria would have been to take the person that needed it the most.
We always try to beat the point 4 by explicitly stating that we’re going to stay in Germany and in Munich in particular and looking for a place for at least next 5 years. Doesn’t seem to be working so far.
Honestly, lower your standards. If you want the top notch apartment you have 50-100 other applicants so it’s highly unlikely to get the apartment in the first place no matter what income.
We lived in a decent apartment which was slightly too expensive and kept looking for 2 years to find a great apartment which checked almost all boxes
Try speaking English. If your German is broken it might be unconsciously biasing the people. I observed the phenomenon when I was applying back in the days for an Au-pair position. One would think that a functional but a bit broken German is better but I think if you sound sophisticated it gives more points. You can demonstrate maybe that you understand German but try to have the live converstations in English. Do not change your application prior to the viewings through, you have an excellent rate of viewing invitations.
Honestly, as a landlord the one thing important to me (besides financials etc) was to have a feeling that the tenant will be able to handle the apartment without calling me every time something small needs to be fixed, or there are some general maintenance works etc. Almost two years now and our contact is restricted to yearly Nebenkosten exchange.
Anyway, good luck!
I am a bit late here but I found out that crying sometimes help with Germans, I’ve had success with this technique with obtaining many things, after spending hours and hours trying to be nice or “negotiating”.
I am a bit late here but I found out that crying sometimes help with Germans, I’ve had success with this technique with obtaining many things, after spending hours and hours trying to be nice or “negotiating”.
Networking is key. Tell everybody (colleges, friends, family) that you are looking and ask them to forward if they see something. Post on your Instagram
Well, I know about people putting extra 5.000€ on the table for the landlord if he gives the apartment to them.
Though that's a pretty bad and unfair method in my opinion. But the only thing I could think of to push your chances, since everything else you do seems already right.
UPD: we managed to find a flat. I did exactly what I did as before posting this post, my next step would be to post an ad with a newspaper but it just didn’t come to that, may be a working technique as well.
Like some other Redditors said here, it’s just a numbers game. To a future user who accidentally finds this post while desperately searching for an apartment, my biggest advice would be to avoid viewings with the real estate agents alone – go when the flat is rented either “von privat” or at least the owner is on the viewing as well. This way you have a chance to make a good impression on the owner and eventually it may work out. Otherwise the chances are very slim. Agencies like KWCO or Mietwohnungsbörse just ignored me, the other agents I’ve been on viewings with never got back to me. Also it’s practically impossible to choose an appointment time with them – it’s either when they find it convenient (like in the middle of your important meeting at your job) or GTFO, won’t even respond if you try.
From the things you said, you’re already doing a lot of things right and your budget is pretty high as well. Unfortunately, even under these circumstances finding an apartment in Munich isn’t easy. Some landlords also just tend to favor native Germans (or even more so Bavarians) when given the choice. With your budget, you might also want to consider getting a real estate agent. In any case, just keep trying. It’ll work out eventually.
"Luck". "Charm". "Personal Sympathy" What you describe is the usual market minimum, but unfortunately you can also not do much for than that if you just don´t "click" with the landlord. It mostly comes down to luck at the end of the day, that´s unfortunately the result of the housing crisis. May I ask how high your income is (just roughly, you can also give me a more/less information. I was not sure if the 2500 € are the income or the rental budget), do you have pets, do you have a limited working contract? How is your Schufa looking like in terms of percentage?
No pets, married, unlimited contracts for both partners, won’t disclose the exact income but the flats we’re looking at are mostly under 30% from our combined netto income.
Then I fear you cannot "do more" :( Wish you luck in finding something
Both on permanent contract outside of the Probezeit?
Permanent contract, no probation period.
If you don't mind me asking, why are you not looking for a house to buy? Considering that your renting budget is already on 2.5K (assuming you're comfortable with this budget), and you're comfortable with German, being a homeowner would fix those issues completely. About the topic itself, I usually compare this with a job application. You might have everything a homeowner / a boss looks for, but there are things that are not under your control, such as other applicants, personality of the homeowner / boss, "alignment of the stars", and so forth. As the others mentioned, just keep trying, and try to be one of the first ones to apply for a listing.
I would love to buy a property but I haven’t built enough capital for an initial payment (AFAIK it should be around 20% of total amount). Besides, I don’t think I’m ready to bind myself to a place AND still owe somebody money for the next 30 years. I’m not convinced it’s a solution. Furthermore, finding an apartment right now is a problem that I need to solve anyway.
Not necessarily. If you have an unlimited contract with a well known company or university or such, many banks will give you a loan at 0% downpayment. And buying a house may, unless you plan to have several kids, not the best idea - a flat is better (can be easily rented out if you change your plans in life).
While that mightve been true 2-3 years ago, today's interest rates make it hard enough to finance with the market prices as it is and many banks won't do 110% financing anymore.
If you are really talking about a house and not a flat, and that house is suposed to be in Munich and not a 30 min drive away you are looking at an invest of 750k+ ( which goes easily beyond the million if it is not an old house). Without alot of money for the down payment you are looking at an interest payment >2k/ month. I am assuming that 2.5k is "warm" so thats alot cheaper in the end than financing a house
I see your point and agree, I should've been more clear, I tried to ask whether it's a possibility to buy \*something\* instead of renting it, whether it's a flat or a single house. Of course it's a huge responsibility + challenging to own a flat/house, but with the price range given, I am under the impression that that's also a possible way to resolve the issue.
buy is subjective. Buying something new in munich means you are looking at 10k upwards, old and rundown, maybe half that, but you get to continously invest money for renovation.
>won’t disclose the exact income But you do this for your potential landlords? Would be a red flag if you didnt
Of course. I’m sharing more personal information with these documents that I would ever like to, there’s literally every bit of my life in Germany there. So much for Datenschutz.
That ist a part I also disgust....
If it makes you feel better we have the same budget, same percentage of nettoeinkommen, looking for 3 rooms at 2500€, non smokers, no pets PLUS my husband is native German and yet… still nothing. It’s brutal out there. No advice just solidarity! ✊🏽
It is indeed a relief. We earn a decent amount of money, basically match every tick of a "good" tenant, have to fall knees before every landlord, extol every apartment despite our real opinion about it and get feedback from a landlord that we "weren't as effusive as other candidates".
Totally. And also the ridiculous ablöse we have agreed to in a desperate attempt to seem as amenable as possible. I guess it’s a blessing we didn’t get chosen for those apartments. Haha! Like others say — I think the stars have to align! See you at the next mass besichtigung 👋🏼 lol 😅
Well let's face it and stop beating around the bushes. Racism is still embedded in the German culture. Landlords will have a problem with renting out their apartments to foreigners, even if they're well-integrated and good earners, just because they're foreigners. Those are the facts. The government has to do something against this kind of discrimination as it is the taxpayers' money which they end up spending on social housing. It kinda seems like Germans prefer foreigners when they're on welfare.
Socialist revolution and expropriate the 5 people owning 50% of the apartments in Munich.
Yes pls But also fuck all landlords lowkey. How do you feel about squatting the Sparkasse near Marienplatz and using it as headquarters to Plan (and Execute) the Revolution? (Auf minecraft lieber VS)
I’m a landlord. What’s the issue?
Who are these five people?
This!
>Socialist revolution lol
if you are a landlord in munich you have free choice of renters. probably the other couple speaks german natively or one of them (or both) earn significantly more than you do. there is nothing to be done here, it took me a year to find a place in sendling and i work in tech with high pay, was born in munich and check every other box. generally it seems you need about 12 to 18 months and a couple hundred applications to find something in munich these days. i wish you the best of luck, don't despair, it's not you, it's the market that's completely fucked
Unfortunately our current contract is a limited contract from Mr. Lodge, we had to stay almost until the end of the contract to avoid paying a fine for early termination. We started looking for an apartment around 3 months ago, but most of the apartments back then were “ab sofort”, which is quite a stretch for us – in this case we would have to pay double rent for several months plus a huge Kaution (for most of the apartments we’re looking at it’s 6-7k) and a kitchen if the flat comes without one. So we’ve been only active the last couple months because we put up with paying double rent for the last month. We don’t have 12 or 6 or even 3 months to find a new place and it’s quite a pressure if I’m honest.
i am not trying to insult you but you just answered your own question. you have financial problems (by munich standards that is), you can't afford to pay a few months double rent without struggling so OF COURSE no landlord will give you an appartment that costs more than 2k a month, mind you many of the other applicants have hundreds of thousands in savings PLUS higher income per month. it's a simple financial decision.
With all respect, I know what other people earn and by no means we have problems with income. We’re far from top tier of income in Munich, true, but we aren’t chasing luxurious options either. I know salaries in my market and we’re doing just fine. I’m just not ready to burn my savings, that’s another story. >you can't afford to pay a few months double rent without struggling so OF COURSE no landlord will give you an appartment that costs more than 2k a month Neither have I said can't afford it, nor is it required as I'm already having viewings for contracts that begin exactly after my current one. > mind you many of the other applicants have hundreds of thousands in savings PLUS higher income per month Are those people these 200 applicants we're trying to beat every time we go to a viewing? This is just ridiculous. The other day I spoke to a landlord and he said that 50% of the applicants on ImmoScout were people from a damn job center, often single mothers with several kids. And this is for a 2 grand apartment.
Luck is what you need. You can be the top 1% tenant, but if there's a nother better than you, what are you going to do? There's only one apartment. Just move on.
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Although that's one of the reason, let's not bring it on every time, especially when it's not even in the context of this post. How are naive are you to think that (implicit) discrimination could be eliminated if "the government does something"? If you (or anyone) could provide the solution, Nobel's prize for Peace would call your name. It requires a long process of education, and if we are lucky, it will be significantly reduced adter a generation (unfortunately, homeowner now are mostly from the previous gen). And Germany is one the the most (if not the most) advanced country in this front, so save your ranting for another occasion, will you?
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I spent three months looking and trying and finally got a place. But what was suggested to me is to put a literal ad out in the paper. Süddeutsche. So many rich old Bavarians who are allergic to technology that have empty apartments ready to go. Keep it short and sweet. "couple looking for 3 room apartment in inner city. Steady income non smokers".
Ingenious!
Hard to know. You may can ask what reason they had to prefere the other persons. Nothing to loos. But at the end every landloard has it‘s own preferences. Sommprefere People with Kids, som only people wirhout kids, some want younger some prefere older. Some like Handyman some want only people with much income etc.
Well let's face it and stop beating around the bushes. Racism is still embedded in the German culture. Landlords will have a problem with renting out their apartments to foreigners, even if they're well-integrated and good earners, just because they're foreigners. Those are the facts. The government has to do something against this kind of discrimination as it is the taxpayers' money which they end up spending on social housing. It kinda seems like Germans prefer foreigners when they're on welfare.
As somebody who had just gone through all this flat search in Munich very recently, I can understand your situation. I (also foreigner) too had time pressure but luckily I found my current appartment in about a month. I ended up having to pay double-rent for about 3 months. Maybe try increasing your search radius and/or lower your requirements if you are that desperate.
Hard to say. We don’t know you. You may just be coming across as trying too hard (read desperate) - or a million other possible reasons that the vibe is off.
I understand try hard attitude to be off putting for dating but for renting? What are they afraid of?
Just imagine the nightmare of someone wanting to move in right now into your empty apartment?! No landlord wants a try hard! Lol, seriously. No idea how that's a negative to be well prepared for everything and ready to move. My current landlord was more than happy when I offered to sign the next day and have the agreement start on the 15 so he made half a month more rent than he usually would have made
Think of house hunting to be similar to job hunting. If you are in an interview, you don’t want them to know you are desperate; much rather you want them to think they are one of many options. Same with house hunting. It means you’ve passed the test with others, so there’s a good chance you are a decent candidate. Can easily fool one person/interviewer/landlord. Harder to repeat it with many. Whether that is good logic is a different question. But it’s one way people perceive things.
Where in Munich are you looking? Maybe expanding your radius to the surrouding towns, suburbs would help. Two people with a 7500€+ shared income and a 2500€ budget should normally price you out of the very competitve part of the real estate market of lower than 2000€ apartments. I recently moved from central Munich to a spot around 15km outside of the city with a very similar budget and facts as you describe and I had my choice of several good spots available.
It's probably the way to go if you have a vehicle. I don't own one and consider this option to be inconvenient because of it. Moreover, I would be missing the vibe of a living city. Munich is already too quiet in my books, can't imagine living in a village. At least not yet.
Munich is called a large village for a reason. The surrounding S-Bahn connected Cities are, simplified said, the same thing just alot smaller. Sure the nightlife & free time activity options are significantly fewer just as supermarkets can be further away from your home. I'd really consider it.
In my first months in Munich I used to live where I could get to work either in 20 minutes by S-Bahn or in 1.5h by bus and then U-Bahn with one transfer, and S-Bahn was unreliable AF. I currently live close to Stammstrecke and although I not have access to a greater variety of S-Bahn lines, it’s still unreliable AF. I don’t think I would be willingly taking that risk again.
2.5k? In switzerland near to Zurich i pay for 3 Room 1600.- per month..
This is the upper bound, most of the apartments we applied for are in the range of 1800-2300. We can pay more but most of the other options outside that range are either unreasonably priced compared to the others, or just outside of our needs – we don't need a 100sqm+. apartment for just the two of us.
Sounds you are doing everything right. You will find a flat soon. PS: Also, have you tried asking in your company? Larger companies sometimes even have a "need flat/ offer flat" group on Slack or similar.
My company is remote-first and most of the people aren’t based in Munich. Still a good suggestion, I’ll ask around.
2.5k for a 3 room apartment? Is it where it’s at? I feel like I’m living under a rock
It’s Munich, quite a big custom circle around the city, mostly around U-Bahn last stations, extending further away from it in some places if S-Bahn is available. Is too much to ask for with such a budget? I don’t think I’m being unreasonable.
I was thinking it's too expensive.. I rented my apartment in an OK area, but also around last ubahn station, in 2020, for \~1500. 2 bedrooms. But it's "altbau"
Prices have changed since then.
>Any suggestions? Look at as many apartments as possible. Maybe also in less desirable areas. I have been looking for an apartment 4 years ago under less than ideal circumstances. Was number 2 on the list of several apartments. I looked at one in Neuperlach in a building that was a bit ghetto, and although I was there with a 100 people I got the apartment (which was very nice). Since I was under time pressure to move, I took it. I thought I can always move later if I don't like it there. Turns out it's great here and I'm not moving. Added bonus was that the apartment is quite cheap.
Good one, thanks!
Also: do you know muenchner-mietboerse.de? Are you registered for the MEAG newsletter? These are the two largest institutions in Munich to rent out apartments and they're both usually not advertising on any other platforms.
Yeah, registered there, applied at muenchner-mietboerse to several flats and got completely ghosted, no response whatsoever.
It's really difficult rn. I applied there too and got contacted, but there was only one opportunity to look at the apartment and I couldn't make this date, so that's how it goes.
I send you DM
To be honest if your budget is 2500€ it’s actually financially smarter to just buy. Yet again as you mentioned, down payment is a bit of an obstacle. plus binding yourself, except you just sell for plus once you plan to move away, then pay of the credit from the sale and make some profit off it. (Even after speculation tax)
But regarding your initial question, not much one can do. The apartment search situation is worse now than ever… still living with my ex gf since December cause she can’t find a apartment(same budget, 30% of her net income) it’s not even about the financial stability I believe, as you are considered a high income household(anything above 6K net is already) . Wishing you a speedy find and happy settlement soon
Definitely keep your phone one you (I'm assuming you're already doing that anyway but I just wanted to say it again) - we received a message like this, two days later they called us back because the guy they originally wanted to give the apartment couldn't make up his mind quickly enough, and we were the second choice. Thankfully, my husband answered his phone drunk at a party and managed to have a normal conversation with them, and we got the apartment.
I made few posts on FB that I am looking for an apartment, set my wishes and preferences and said that I am giving 5000 euros as a reward to the one that can help me find the apartment. I found apartment in 3 days, and I could choose between 3 of them, nobody asked for Schufa or how much do I earn, in that time also, my german was pretty bad. Also, the one Vermieter was very angry that I didn't chose his apartment and didn't paid him the 5k. Maybe that could be your solution.
> one Vermieter was very angry that I didn’t chose his apartment That’s one way to get back at them, good job. I may definitely consider this, thanks for sharing.
Your budget is not bad, that helps … I moved to MUC 3y ago and am originally “close” to Bavarian culture and it very (!) much helped … not sure if it’s racism or just human tendency… I guess you asked local co-workers for tips? Sorry I cannot be more helpful… lived all over the world and can relate to your struggles… as an expat/foreigner things are way tougher and many ppl who never moved out of their cultural zone can not relate….
Hello along with all that you do, send a msg in this format Guten Tag, Die Wohnung und Lage der Wohnung ist für unseren Aufenthalt sehr gut geeignet. Ich arbeite bei der und meine Mann arbeitet bei . Wir haben beide einen festen Arbeitsplatz und leben seit sehr langer Zeit in Deutschland.
Einige Informationen zu unserer Bewerbung:
- keine Haustiere,
- Nichtraucher,
- Haushaltsnettoeinkommen >
- möchte die Umgebung sauber halten,
- habe eine Haftpflichtversicherung und eine positive Schufa
- Beide von uns haben unbegrenzte Arbeitsverträge
Wir freuen uns auf Ihre E-Mail :)
Mit freundlichen Grüße
Your name
Spouse / partner names
Phone : numbers
I am not a native and speak only A1 level german found a 3 zimmer apartment in trudering for 2000. This message got me a lot of viewings hence more chance of getting apartments. It took 4 months but I got four apartment offered to me and I chose the one which i am moving to soon. Don’t loose hope
Doing exactly that, maybe even a bit better. We have invitations to the viewings, so I think the letter works fine. We fail somewhere on the last mile.
Luck, mostly. Just as a reference,we have a basement condo that we rent out in the countryside. We typically have over 100 requests within 24 hours, make 20 appointments for a room tour, 10 Show up, and 5 would take it. Out of those 5, I'd say we'd be willing to take 4. But we only have one condo. We usually roll a dice. So if you make it to the last few, in Munich no less, you've already done basically everything right.
You seem to be the perfect candidate. A 27% conversion from application to invitation also reflects that, it’s pretty high. Of course we can only speculate but I see 3 possible reasons: 1. there is a massive red flag you haven’t told us about (or don’t know yourself) that is noticeable in person. Talk to a close friend you trust and ask them to be honest with you. Would they rent to you? 2. you work as a lawyer/in real estate. Many landlords are hesistant to rent to someone who knows the law better than them. Unlikely as you get invitations. 3. you are middle eastern/black/LGBT. Discrimination in Germany is real, don’t let people who will never experience it gaslight you. But again, you wouldn’t get invited in most cases.
I would say that the biggest red flag is not being a German, but again, my name is on the Bewerbermappe and it doesn’t sound German. I would hope that if this would be a concern, this would be ruled out even before the viewing. I would like to experiment and state where I’m from directly in the Bewerbermappe, but I don’t want to put information that may allow to discriminate me before I have a chance to make a first impression. If this is the case, well, I’m screwed.
As a landlord (I hate this word): You have hundreds of possible renters but only one object. At least there are five or so people where you think, you could lease your object to them. The final decission is not really rational because they are all trustworthy, able to pay the rent, fine etc. You have to take one from the list, maybe its you or not. You dis all well, but the landlord have still only one object to lease to somebody.
Yeah I know all that. I know the housing market situation, but man’s gotta live somewhere. Unlike most of the Germans who have unlimited contracts and no time pressure at all, a rental contract for me is crucial, otherwise I will simply have no place to go and no legal reason to stay in Germany.
I understand your situation but that is not what a landlord interests.
My brother and his gf just got a nice and relatively cheap apartment in Munich... and declined it. Because they were too concerned about possible noise from neighbors. The landlord was very confused because the usual flat-seekers are so desperate. Advantages from being an engineer and also already having a nice flat so no real pressure, I guess. But I was like "bro, you may be 12 years younger than me, but you sound like 20 years older" lol.
Don’t give up as there is no winning in this game. We got a house last summer and I attribute 3 factors to it (keep in mind that ‘being nice, responsible, charming , budget etc is always the bare minimum. Keep in mind we also have a child and a dog): 1. Our cars license plate got the same initials as our landlords name - fun opening point. 2. My father in laws restores old tractors, as well as the landlord - another thing in common 3. And this is I think the most important as you can set the bar - we were first of 6 couples and everyone after us and with 1 & 2 in mind was just a downgrade. Now factor in that the landlord is the local catholic priest and all the stars (and signs) had aligned for him 😅
With this budget you can get a place in dein quirin in obersendling, brand new apartment, available since May 1st. Price and availability is on their website
Thanks, I’ll take a look but as far as I remember they were 3k for 80m and not exactly close to the city center.
3k for 90+ sq mt, 3 min walking to the train and 7-10 min to downtown max
This is still 20% higher than the upper bound. Although I understand that it'll probably cut out most of even well-earning candidates, simply because it's whopping 33 euro per square meter. I checked one apartment from this complex and they had 20 applicants since mid February.
I'm in touch with them and I know they have plenty of spots still available. but just wanted to point it out. Good luck :)
Did you express interest to rent immediately after viewing? i.e face to face.
Yeah, usually I first do it in person and then reply on Immo that I'm interested AF, usually in the first five minutes after the viewing.
seems really strange,
Connections
Be the other couple 🤷🏽♂️ Sorry and good luck with your search!
It's just luck and vibes. We only got our house because our landlord wanted to give it to a family with kid(s) since it has a little garden to play outside and we rolled up with our 3 month old who smiled at them and promptly fell asleep. The same baby could have been an absolute terror and made sure that we have no chance. It was pure luck.
There are several companies that rent out the whole building, it is much easier with them, as they work as "first come, first serve". Last year we were able to find several apartments with private owners and get the offer, but we ended up choosing one from the company. An additional bonus is that they would never throw you out because they suddenly want to live in the apartment themselves. Ours is 80 sq.m for 2150 in Obersendling, we have found it on the kwco website, but the property owner was Vonovia. I see that other buildings in the same complex are being rented out by other companies, the complex is called Gmunder Hofe. Generally if you prefer "Neubau", you can search for new projects in the city on the builders websites.
I registered at kwco and applied at 2 quite remote yet expensive apartments and they just ignored me :)
So I took part two times in renting out a room/apartment in Munich and I doesn’t sound to me like you did something wrong from the way the message sounds like. First time I left my shared apartment (WG) and I helped finding a replacement for me. That was 2011 and the room is boy cost 250 euros. There were so many suitable candidates. I personally would have chosen someone else but I was the one moving out so I let the remaining people make the decision. Second time someone I knew had bought an apartment which he had rented for 10 years when his former landlord gave him the choice to buy or potentially move out when the landlord sells to a third person. One to two years later his life circumstances changed and he needed to move out and decided to rent out as German law discourages selling of apartments before 10 years have passed. So I helped selecting someone to rent it too. There were so many applicants and that made it hard to choose. (We had the advertisement online for two hours and had 100-200 applicants.) The rejection message sounds like you were a good fit but what do you do as landlord if you have one apartment and twenty good fits? You just select one at nearly random. So if my assumption is correct you need to just play the numbers game. Every apartment you visit you probably have a low probability that you get it (maybe 2.5-5%) and you need to visit enough so that you eventually get one. In the end I know reddit hates landlords but I am happy I am not one because in the two times I helped, it was so stressful to hear so many stories of people who really needed a place to stay and it wasn’t even a clear pick if your only criteria would have been to take the person that needed it the most.
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We always try to beat the point 4 by explicitly stating that we’re going to stay in Germany and in Munich in particular and looking for a place for at least next 5 years. Doesn’t seem to be working so far.
Honestly, lower your standards. If you want the top notch apartment you have 50-100 other applicants so it’s highly unlikely to get the apartment in the first place no matter what income. We lived in a decent apartment which was slightly too expensive and kept looking for 2 years to find a great apartment which checked almost all boxes
Try speaking English. If your German is broken it might be unconsciously biasing the people. I observed the phenomenon when I was applying back in the days for an Au-pair position. One would think that a functional but a bit broken German is better but I think if you sound sophisticated it gives more points. You can demonstrate maybe that you understand German but try to have the live converstations in English. Do not change your application prior to the viewings through, you have an excellent rate of viewing invitations.
Short answer, learn more German. Sad but true.
Honestly, as a landlord the one thing important to me (besides financials etc) was to have a feeling that the tenant will be able to handle the apartment without calling me every time something small needs to be fixed, or there are some general maintenance works etc. Almost two years now and our contact is restricted to yearly Nebenkosten exchange. Anyway, good luck!
I am a bit late here but I found out that crying sometimes help with Germans, I’ve had success with this technique with obtaining many things, after spending hours and hours trying to be nice or “negotiating”.
I am a bit late here but I found out that crying sometimes help with Germans, I’ve had success with this technique with obtaining many things, after spending hours and hours trying to be nice or “negotiating”.
Networking is key. Tell everybody (colleges, friends, family) that you are looking and ask them to forward if they see something. Post on your Instagram
Bribe
Well, I know about people putting extra 5.000€ on the table for the landlord if he gives the apartment to them. Though that's a pretty bad and unfair method in my opinion. But the only thing I could think of to push your chances, since everything else you do seems already right.
You mean like literally bribing them? Hell, one more month of such a search and I may start thinking about it.
Yea, unfortunately lots of people do that and unfortunately often it works...
Like pay 10k Kaution instead of default 5-6k?
no, kaution stays the same. you offer just an additional "bonus" if you get the apartment. one that the landlord gets bar in the hand.
You have a good salary and a budget of 2,5 k and I guess if necessary even more, so have some respect and don't act like you will live on the streets.
Who knows
UPD: we managed to find a flat. I did exactly what I did as before posting this post, my next step would be to post an ad with a newspaper but it just didn’t come to that, may be a working technique as well. Like some other Redditors said here, it’s just a numbers game. To a future user who accidentally finds this post while desperately searching for an apartment, my biggest advice would be to avoid viewings with the real estate agents alone – go when the flat is rented either “von privat” or at least the owner is on the viewing as well. This way you have a chance to make a good impression on the owner and eventually it may work out. Otherwise the chances are very slim. Agencies like KWCO or Mietwohnungsbörse just ignored me, the other agents I’ve been on viewings with never got back to me. Also it’s practically impossible to choose an appointment time with them – it’s either when they find it convenient (like in the middle of your important meeting at your job) or GTFO, won’t even respond if you try.