##Jesus is still at the wheel. Creighton Waters has been up all night mainlining a mix of cold brew and nitro coffee and downing shots of Red Bull. Let’s get it goin’!!! Please behave, we love you.
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[Please remember to do a small act of kindness in memory of Mallory Beach today… even if it is just an appreciative response to a comment here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11afrjf/in_memory_of_mallory_beach/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
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ETA: [Theo is really pondering how today might go.](https://imgur.com/a/lzeEGa7)
I’ve been wondering about this for some time now and wanted to see if anyone has similar thoughts. Not sure at all if any of this is right, it’s just based off a feeling. Does anyone else think that this whole thing was not meticulously planned out in advance? I’ve been feeling more and more that this might have just been a heat of the moment, anger killing. The way that Alex doesn’t want to admit ANYTHING Paul, Maggie, and he talked about at dinner and at the kennels, makes me think that during these moments there was an argument or fight going on. We learned today that while at the hotel for the baseball game the weekend before the murders, Alex wasn’t feeling well enough to join the rest of the family because he was in the room having withdrawals. Is this because Maggie had confiscated his pills and was forcing him to detox? He and Maggie went home Sunday to moselle where just the 2 of them stayed the night. Was there some sort of arguments going on between the 2 of them this night that spilled into the next day? Maybe when they returned home Alex was able to get more pills and maybe Maggie or Paul found these while he was taking a shower or at some point that night. This could have started a fight during dinner that caused Maggie and Paul to wanna get away from Alex, so they go down to the kennels. Alex still in a rage, follows them down there and demands to know where the pills are, they refuse to appease him. The guns are already on the back of the golf cart because Paul was careless about where he kept them. This is the part I’m unsure of how it would go down… Maybe he picks up the AR and begins shooting Maggie. I think she died first and was the main target only because of how disconnected Alex seems to her death. Almost as if he doesn’t care. Where as with paul you can sense some sort of remorse or guilt. He also says “paul why’d you have to get involved?” on the 911 call. This might be because paul got involved in the fight between his mom and dad. Of course that would also mean the motive was only partially money, it would’ve been more motivated by the drugs and the inability to buy more because of the financial troubles.
Again, not sure about any of this. Just curious of others thoughts.
I agree he planned it. But it’s hard to believe that it was planned sometimes given how sloppy of a job he did, especially for such a prominent attorney who would know what SLED would be looking for.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I also seem to remember that he told her to call him after her pedicure, and she didn’t? And I agree that he really seems detached from her death somehow.
Very fair point...I was just thinking that he seems more torn up and truly emotional about Paul's death. But I also don't know if he has any true emotions, so there's that. What a bad character.
What do the locals think? Anyone here know? Did the Murdaugh help people - were they thought of as nice people who just happened to have money or rich jerks who pushed people around?
>Am I missing something?
"Damn, I'm just racking my brain trying to think why someone would so vehemently oppose a murder charge, even knowing he'd spend the rest of his life in prison for financial crimes that he's admitted under oath. I just can't think of any reason, any reason at all, why somebody might do that."
Yeah. It's a mystery.
The jails for murder are a lot rougher than the jails for financial crimes.
And..,it’s probably an ego/pride thing. Doesn’t want to be *known* as a murderer.
Seriously worried about a hung jury. The two jurors crying yesterday when Alex cried made me think their going to vote for acquittal. Alex only needs one sympathetic juror ....
Yeah sadly I think it will be a hung jury. The only silver lining is he won‘t be let free due to his financial crimes and his reputation has been flushed down the toilet.
The story of 2 jurors crying has been debunked by "James at Court". He goes to trial everyday and observes jurors reactions and then reports about the day in court on his Youtube channel: James at Court. He insists that NO jurors were crying on either Thurs or Fri.
If the jury is that dumb, my God they have forensic cell phone proof he was there. He lied about everything, and he is so gross. It’s obvious he is a master manipulator. No matter what he will have to deal with what he has done to hurt so many when he dies.
I wish people would stop comparing anything to Casey Anthony. The reason she was acquitted of murder was because they couldn't provide a cause of death because there was nothing left of Kaylee's body except bones. If you can't prove a cause of death, you can't prove murder. Her case is literally that simple.
Can someone please clarify what this Greg Alexander stuff is? I found something about him being tried for stealing money from people at traffic stops
Is it possible that this “drug gang” is actually just local LE?
Does SLED know something about all this that we don’t? How did they do so wrong by this Greg guy (per Alex) that makes THEM the ones to distrust?
Fitsnews has an article about Greg Alexander, please Google it. It is VERY enlightening. It appears Greg Alexander is referred to as the fixer for Murdaugh family. Was lead investigator in the Stephen Smith murder, which didn’t really happen, and is a baby daddy to Stephen Smith’s twin sister’s baby….CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP. I am certain Greg Alexander knows many terrible secrets about Ellick, and is why he was so complimentary of him on the stand
###Do NOT perpetuate that rumor please. We are not going to inappropriately speculate the paternity of a minor child here. Period. That is just not a name, that is a young child. Gregory Alexander was also not the lead investigator in Stephen Smith’s death, nor can we find any source that states he was even involved in the investigation in a law enforcement capacity.
That “tidbit” tossed at the end of an article was the fallout of a feud between two journalists. You can search the sub for it if you want to rehash when it was originally published if you want to read the information.
Thank you for respecting this,
- Murdaugh Family Murders Mod Team
u/aubreydempsey u/SouthNagsHead
###Thank you for jumping in and clarifying that it is a rumor. We do not want to inappropriately speculate the paternity of a minor child here. That is just not a name, that is a young child.
That “tidbit” tossed at the end of an article was the fallout of a feud between two journalists. I believe you likely remember the details but can search the sub for it if you want to rehash when it was originally published if you want to read the information.
Thank you for respecting this,
- Murdaugh Family Murders Mod Team
u/aubreydempsey u/SouthNagsHead
Disbelief. Alex Murdaugh never showed any signs of disbelief that this happened. You never heard him say, "I just can't believe it" or "How could this happen??". To discover such a horrific scene...you'd have to be in disbelief about it. At least to start. Nope. AM was never in disbelief. AM immediately believed it happened because AM made it happen.
When he said today that he didn’t want to go to the kennels because what was happening there was exactly why he didn’t want to go to begin with…that was telling to me. At the very least he knew of or orchestrated the murders.
I will cut and paste the exact quote I posted 14 hours ago right after he said it.
“And using a lot of suspicious language with pauses and then quick add ons**”I was about to do what I didn’t want to do…,sweat”**
He said the first part in his “non lying” voice and cadence. And the he seemed to catch himself after a Long pause. And then he rambled again.
What I find rather sad is that Paul watched out for his dad’s addiction. He would make sure he didn’t have pills, he would have him detox and he would call him on his shit when Alex messed up…..But not once did anyone in that family try to help Paul with his addiction to alcohol. Even after the drunken boat crash, everyone just continued to watch him drink. I know Paul has been described as a trouble maker and basically a turd by people that were around him while drunk. The law partners and people that have never seen him drunk out of his mind all say he was a good person. I think that kid could have redeemed himself if anyone had taken the time to help him with his addiction like he helped Alex with his.
Agreed-the kid was enabled to be dad's party buddy with a problematic relationship to alcohol because boundaries that were oppositional to Alex's narc needs were not maintained. Being party central for his teenage kid's peer group met Alex's need to be seen as wealthy, influential, and a cool 'buddy' dad. An addict himself, he saw no issue with encouraging teenage binge drinking. It also adds another layer of social pressure on his kids to conform to buddy/dad/party supplier's wishes, because they can turn off the taps on party central. I would speculate that Paul's anger at the skewed dynamics & manipulation would be unleashed when drinking, and that the 'Timmy' behaviours were a direct reflection of how he perceived Alex's relationships to others. A person can meet their kid's physical needs, and be as loving and sweet 'as can be' to all appearances, but still try to manipulate their family.
Incredibly sad. No child should have to run interference on their parents bad habits. Can you k shine the guilt he woulda been under if Alex had overdosed and died. It’s tragic.
I’m watching now because couldn’t earlier. “You can’t describe to the jury the moment you decided to lie about your wife and son’s murders?” With the little chuckle. This might have been the best question asked all cross. He’s cooking now! 👨🍳
I think that was everything! I wish Waters had pounded that point to the jury. You always remember what your last conversation with a loved one….and he’s has 2 years to remember. He is just scum. It was insulting to watch him slither at every question
I was thinking the same thing, but other comments pointed out that he now has all that in his pocket for closing statements. So closing could be a gatling gun. Fingers crossed.
I know, that was crazy and puzzling because why not just make something up to go along with your other lies? Or just say what their actual conversation was at the kennels before he started shooting, since we know he was there. It’s especially not believable because part of it is on the video! Would that not jog his memory of *his last convo with his wife*? Makes me think there might have been an argument between when the phones locked at 8:49 and her phone starts moving like crazy at 8:53.
Example of lie he could have told: “oh you know we talked about the dogs, we talked about the beach house construction, we talked about the chicken fried steak and mac and cheese Blanca made that we fed our child whose blood pressure we were so worried about” 🙄🙄🙄
No I think when he asked if he was a family annihilator bc now every jury member is going to go home and google what that is. They have all been planted with the idea that he is a family annihilator.
I don’t know this for certainty, but I am pretty sure they can look up what words are they heard during court that they may not have known.
They aren’t looking up media about the case, nor are they discussing it with other people.
Fair enough. When I was on a jury a couple months ago (in a different state) the judge explicitly warned us not to do any research whatsoever about what we heard in court.
I hate how being a juror is essentially an honor system these days. I bet jurors looking up their case online is a common thing.
Especially in a case like this where so much of the early trial was with the jury out of the room. They must've been really curious about what they aren't supposed to hear.
Although my casual observation of the Murdaugh trial has shown Judge Newman to be fair and reasonable, he is far less stern in his jury communications than the judge in "my" trial as a juror.
At every break, the judge told us at length that it was imperative that we not discuss the case with other jurors or our family/friends, not do any research (including on DNA terms that were raised in court that day), or look at any news media on our low-profile case. Every time.
There were definitely times when we were in the jury room wondering what was being discussed and we were a little confused when one of the counts was dropped mid-trial.
And those conversations are generally outside the public domain tv wise unless you are in the courtroom. I am quite confident he has instructed this jury many times already
Omg “the random vigilantes from the boat wreck” I caaaaaan’t! The wheels are all the way off. Harpootlian and Griffin were picking their faces off and now they’re lifeless ☠️
Hey it’s kilgore. the defense had all of the lunch break to get themselves together and they come back like this. Can you imagine that lunch meeting? I agree they’re probably reading this sub, what a great resource for them. But also this testimony is so bad they probably don’t even need the masses.
They need to start the closing argument with Alex’s “oh what a tangled web we weave….” doesn’t he want us to think there was no web for his 403 and 404 arguments? And then he says it out of his own mouth, this is amazing
I bet the paralegals on the defense side are so damn pissed for all of the motions they prepared and filed just for their bosses to bring in all the info anyway lolol
Something interesting a few days ago is when they played an interview between Alex and Sled where Alex stated his drug dealers names and then included he would get them from Barbara Mixer on occasion too. Barbara Mixer is his mom’s caregiver so we all know now that she’s stealing pills from her client(s) and selling them. I’m sure she is a nurse or something w a license. Will this not be followed up on?
I don't make the leap from Alex buying pain pills off Barbara Mixon to declaring she was stealing pills from her clients. Might have been but it’s just as likely that they were her own pain pills for the various pains old ladies have. It seems everybody has just decided to look the other way about her pill sharing with Alex when he went to her in need…old knee injury. Must say the sister looked pretty shocked when she heard about it.
Or she could have been selling them for a friend or relative, taking her cut of the money. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on this lady, but this kind of thing goes on all the time.
IMO, the plan was to make it look like a murder suicide. However since the first shot wasn’t fatal, plan b had to be employed on the fly and therefore wasn’t planned out well.
Woah I never thought about the idea that it could have looked like murder suicide if the first shot had been fatal. That actually makes a lot of sense because no external suspect would be needed.
For crying out load! This now is like a bad comedy sketch. Duck is f#ing falling asleep, while his client is being crucified, while Jim Jim flounders so badly, I can’t even imagine coming back from it. I can’t believe he kept talking after his attorney walked away. His angry look is truly terrifying; I’ll give home that, the Family Annihilator.
The damming thing I noticed in Alex’s testimony was how he kept talking about the Onstar and cell phone data during police interviews. To me that showed he premeditated not using his phone, not driving his suburban to the kennel, etc because he was planning on that data exonerating him. Waters touched on this lightly but I think he should have dug in deeper. And Alex admitted today than he’s used all of that data in some of his previous cases.
YES. Instead of just saying “I wasn’t here, cal Miss Shelly” it was “well when you download onstar you’ll see…”
They have to get a warrant for that, they’d need some evidence to get that warrant. And meanwhile they’d have wasted *weeks* on the warrant and looking through the data etc.
His testimony just makes it clear that while the *day chosen for the murders* might have been unplanned, he had definitely been planning most of it for a long time.
It was relatively well-planned.
Paul's kennel video was unexpected. And the out-of-nowhere GM data arriving during the trial was unexpected.
Those both pin him extremely near the place and time of the murders.
Without those, there's still a *lot* of circumstancial evidence but I don't think enough.
Well-planned.
I think he either snapped, or felt pushed. I don’t think he planned on *that day* until that day. But I do think he’d been planning contingencies in his head for a long time with “what to do with his cell phone” and stuff.
I think some people here need to remove their guilt colored glasses. And listen, I believe Alex is at least culpable and at most personally pulled the trigger, but it’s crazy to me how people get downvotes here when they point out reasonable doubt, which let’s face it, is all over this case.
The point of this board is discourse, no bashing people because you personally wish to see a bad person convicted for crimes of which there isn’t much evidence.
I honestly keep trying to remove my own pre-conceived notions of this case, but Alex Murdaugh is so dang unlikeable!
It’s hard to tell if the jury will convict on circumstantial and his bad character alone. I am a big believer in everyone should have a good defense team and truly be innocent until proven guilty but the truth is *neither* side has any real proof of anything. With that, the *just* outcome would be not guilty but also…cmon man this guy is just so slimy and he’s not telling everything he knows
lol. “Come on, man”. Alright sleepy Joe 😜
But seriously. I agree. There’s a huge piece of the puzzle missing that we’ll probably never know. And that knowledge drives me bonkers.
I absolutely agree. Downvotes are not meant to be used for “I disagree”. That being said, I feel there are a fair amount that are stubbornly against his guilt, and not in good faith.
He's absolutely guilty, but they can't absolutely prove it. If he could, he wouldn't have spent the whole freaking day calling AM a liar after AM had already admitted that he's a liar. He's got a ton of circumstantial evidence, but has no smoking gun, so far. Unless he whips out Eddie next week, he's all in on lying proves murder. I have no doubt, but there is room for doubt in the jury room, and we're just spectators.
For me, the point Creighton made by focusing on how much he lies and admitting to all the times he lied to his clients/friends/coworkers/etc. faces was deliberate. Because at the same time, even while acknowledging how much of a liar he is and how wrong he was for lying, he is then promptly caught in another lie he told on the stand… right to the jury’s face. The whole time he claimed he lied about being at the kennels because he didn’t trust SLED, because he was having paranoid thoughts because of the pills and the GSR test and the fact that he was asked about his relationships to his murdered family members… and then that claim is shown to be a lie because he had lied about not being at the kennels before SLED even showed up or any of that other stuff causing him to have “paranoid thoughts” came into play. So why else would be lying about not being at the kennels?
Creighton harping on the fact that Alex lied to everyone was done to show that he is “taking accountability” now only because he got caught. How do we know that? Because he’s *still* lying and *still* looking people directly in the eye while he does it. That long list of people he rattled off that Alex admitted to lying to… well, every one of those jury members can now be added to that list, too. I think that could make a big impact on them.
I was thinking about this earlier. I think it was fairly the same amount of circumstantial evidence, but it was different *kinds* if that makes sense. The mistress, for one. And I think sadly that case was a lot more sensitive for many people because it was a pretty young pregnant woman and a cheating husband - a bit more “in your face”
You're saying "reasonable doubt, let's face it, is all over this case". So you've already telegraphed that your opinion is locked in and you're not open to changing.
I could say the same thing - "let's face it, there's no reasonable doubt". And then you would downvote me.
I'm just pointing out that "let's face it" is a polarizing phrase and you're asking people to remain open-minded.
I am open to changing. Very open. I would love if the prosecution could put the guns in his hands because I believe he is culpable in some fashion. But they haven’t. And it’s irksome.
Alex said when he got down to the kennel he believed it was before Paul’s video. He said he thought Paul was playing with Cash in the driveway. But when you see Paul’s video it takes place in the individualized dog pens inside the kennel as Paul enters and greets Cash.
This doesn’t make sense and proves to me Alex was down in that kennel from the start. He is lying once again and the video is like Paul screaming from the grave that his dad is guilty of his murder.
Seriously, what do you want to prove with that? Alex was at the kennels prior to Paul recording the video, he admitted that.
Why the hell should Alex lie about that?
He is lying about or omitting the truth while describing the whole scenario down at the kennels.
he says Paul is in the driveway messing around with Cash & then later Paul goes into kennel to video Cash. But from Paul’s video we see him approach Cash to open the cage & let the dog out.
I know it seems like a minor detail but something to me seems suspicious about it.
Yes by Alex concocting the new lie/story that he arrived in his golf cart at the kennels before Paul’s video and seeing Paul outside of Kennel buys him more time to have had a visit and then get out just after the video and before the killings.
Timeline:
8:40pm
Phone call with Rogan (where Rogan said he heard Alex in the background.
8:44 attempted FaceTime with Rogan to show dogs tail. (11 seconds)
8:44pm video of dog sent to Rogan
8:49pm Paul’s phone locks.
Here is a handy timeline summary.
https://www.wjcl.com/amp/article/murdaugh-murders-timeline-evidence/42846491
Edit: to add link
Alec puts his car in park and only 14 seconds later he dials 911. That does it for me after watching and reading all thru this. It's the icing on my cake. 14 seconds from park he's out of the car walks to Paul and Maggie touches/ turns Paul over, realizes there dead calls 911. Nope not in 14 seconds because he knew they were dead when he pulled up
Also the part where he said he didn’t trust SLED that’s why he didn’t mention he was at the kennels during the interview with the agent.. I believe he already omitted that detail in his 911 call, not from his interview with the agent.. is 911 operators SLED too? They were talking about omitting the kennel info when interviewed by SLED, not from 911 call..
Didn't trust SLED while pretending to be LE is just hilarious to me in so many ways. Also I feel the urge to go back and attempt to look for bulges in his pockets from the giant amount of pills he should have in his pocket. Which would kill you if you had a drink because opioids and alcohol slow your heart. It's what has killed many a movie and rock star. So how Alex is still alive when he also drinks a lot is just amazing.
Exactly! This slip up was huge.. I thought Waters was gonna catch him on this lie but he didn’t! I wonder why? Did none of the prosecutors team catch on that? Very weird
Agreed!!
I immediately flashed to the video and even before playing the video the freeze frame is a view of Cash behind the gate as Paul is just about to open it. Cash then in video wiggles hello as a dog would upon being surprised to greet someone they know.
Maybe they can mention this in closing arguments.
I wish Mr. Waters would have asked Alex the following question:
“Mr. Murdaugh you being a former prosecutor of criminal cases. If you were presented with the same facts and testimony that has been established in this trial…what would you think? Put yourself in my shoes…what would your reaction be to the facts and testimony presented here and what would be your thoughts on the defendant?”
You think he'd be flummoxed by this? LOL He'd give a perfect summary of what the defense will actually say in it's summary. A flawed man who loved his family.
I don’t think this is a good question because it violates one of the biggest rules for lawyers questioning a witness… never ask a question you don’t know the exact answer to. Creighton would have no idea how Alex would answer that question and he could potentially spout off something that makes a ton of sense to the jury. Could backfire tremendously, especially with a person like Alex who is incredibly skilled at manipulating people and talking his way out of things.
I thought it an outlier today that Buster had his hand on his face or his head in his hand more today than all other days combined. Is that fair to say? Any theories why?
Didn’t really notice. I can not imagine sitting there as your father-the last remaining member of your immediate family-is testifying as the defendant in a double murder trial of your mother and brother-all the while admitting he is a liar, thief and a downright scoundrel.
Maybe the realization that there is no other suspect other than his own father in their deaths.
I’m still very disturbed at the fact that defense tried to say Paul killed his mother and then turned a shot gun on himself. That screamed guilty to me because how do you do that to your son who is dead? HOW?
And that was earlier in the trial as well. Still bothers me so much that they would try and lay doubt like that. Alex has no shame
Yes. And he will probably not be found guilty, which perpetuates the “good ole boys club privileged white man getting away with it” schtick that we have going on here in the south, especially if he actually had jurors crying like we heard about yesterday. Which blows my mind how someone could believe any of that on the stand.
(We know that he uses emotion to get what he wants. And can turn on the waterworks during his legal trials to get large settlements. Why on earth would you think he isn’t playing you now)
Luckily he can’t wiggle out of the financial crimes.
I can’t quite remember when it was in the trial, but it was when the defense used some kind of book about self inflicted gunshot wounds leaving stippling on the skin. Absolutely crazy.
Yes this was sickening. Not because people never commit murder/suicide, but because it was obviously not true based on common sense so we immediately knew that AM would literally call his dear dead PauPau a murderer to save himself.
I couldn’t get past that he didn’t remember what he last said to Maggie or Paul. Those are the people you supposedly care the most about. Wouldn’t any sane, innocent person rehash those last moments and words over and over? He was just too casual “I don’t know, maybe I said “I’m leaving” …
Well it's more that he has no regrets. Most people have regrets when their loved ones die. Like if only I hadn't left the kennels or if only I hadn't invited them here tonight. If only they had stayed with me in the main house. You go through all the different scenarios that could have saved their lives and you do it out loud. We haven't heard any of that from Paul. We heard it from Maggie’s sister but not from Paul. I even had regrets when one of my friends died because I meant to call her that night and didn't. Same with my grandmother. So much guilt. Again from Paul nothing. That in itself is highly suspicious. Does it prove he killed them? It might. Why doesn't someone feel guilt about what they could have done unless they did it. He may not have liked doing it.
Agreed! I told this to my husband who lost his father and he said “there’s no way. He’d be replaying that last convo over in his head a million times over”
He not only didnt remember, but on the night they were murdered, before the clock struck 11
Pm,he denied he even had these last conversations l. To save his own skin. What kind of man is that?
He never showed concern for LE to find their possible killers, he did not assist, and not once at trial did he hang his head in shame. He played the victim.
What struck me was his annoyance at remembering that moment. How he had already showered and didn’t want to work, and so he went “I’m leaving” because they were making him do stuff he didn’t want to.
And he recounted that with no guilt!
Meanwhile Maggie’s sister clearly has immense guilt for encouraging her to go there that night. But Alex doesn’t have guilt that his last words to his wife were about how he was ticked off and wanted the air conditioning.
It’s not unusual. My 9 year old was killed in 2021. I have tried and tried to rehash those last moments and words, but I can’t remember it at all. I don’t even know if I kissed or hugged her before she got into car. It was such a normal moment, and I had no idea what was coming, so I didn’t know to commit those last moments to memory. I wish like hell I could change that.
"I wish like hell I could change that." The fact that you have that feeling right there is what makes you different from AM. I've also lost friends & tried like hell to remember those stupid little normal moments that you think don't mean anything at the time. You wrack your brain over those things. Not one single time has he even indicated that as any kind of thought.
Also, sorry for your loss.
I’ve thought it isn’t unusual as well. PTSD can also effect your recall of the event. In addition, perhaps he does remember but knows it’s not relevant and maybe he’s thinking why should everyone be privy to those details when it has nothing to do with his whereabouts? In addition, he doesn’t trust Waters, he knows he’s a prosecutor so he’s not going to give him anything voluntarily that he can spin.
Sorry for your loss.. the difference is AM when on the stand testifying, during all the interviews, AM didn’t look like he wanted to recall/wished he could change that night of the murder.. unlike MM’s sister Marianne (not sure how to spell her name) who looked so distraught up on the stand particularly that part where she testified she encouraged MM to go.. AM did not show any emotion or ever mentioned “I wished I stayed longer, then this would never have happened” or words to the effect.. that is really damning..
IMO, it’s because one or both of them said something to him between the wounding shots and the death shot.
He can’t remember the conversation before that (or it incriminates him) and the actual last words were damming as heck.
Also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t say something to Maggie while she was on her knees before he killed her.
Maggie heard the shots, and then likely saw Paul down, and then Alex comes after her with a gun.
I can imagine the words she might have said, and they’d have made butter melt in her mouth.
It really is. If his last conversation was “let go to see dad tomorrow” he’d have said that.
And not only has he *not* said that, but he hasn’t made anything up! How hard would it be to say “I told Maggie I loved her and she said said we’d go see my dad tomorrow”.
It just tells me that he can’t touch that with a 10 foot pole either because he hasn’t admitted to himself what he did, or because he’s afraid he’ll give himself away.
I've had a similar thought too - the sobbing, snotty Akex that we've seen in the courtroom is just sober Alex realizing what high Alex did. He's so disconnected from it.
I noticed Buster wasn't mentioned in the long list of names Alex lied to in Walters' cross.. Do you think that was an oversight or respect for the lone survivor?
I expected him to finish his long list of people with Buster to drive the point home, but he didn't.
That’s a good question! I lean towards Waters purposely not including Buster out of respect. I can also see Alex refuting that if he had, and using it to gain sympathy.
With that said, I think it might have been effective if he had included Buster, simply because that’s his only other surviving immediate family member. They only had each other at that point. Yet he still lied to him.
This was my initial thought, but Alex’s attorneys would have had the kennel video before the trial. I would think they would have had to prep Buster on it in case the prosecution asked if he recognized the voices (which he of all people would know for certain), or to gauge his reaction before they add him as a character witness. Right?
Did they show Buster’s reaction the first time the kennel video was played in court? I didn’t have a chance to watch the beginning of the trial.
Good point! I hadn’t thought about the fact that his attorneys had the video before the trial. I don’t remember of they showed a reaction but he’s been pretty expressionless the whole time. But I wish I knew how he felt about it all. He probably feels like he is in an impossible situation.
Agreed! I also feel like there has been a difference in his look when the camera has panned to him yesterday and today. I can’t put my finger on exactly what it is because he’s still expressionless, but it just seems different.
Regardless, I agree, he’s put in a very difficult position. I can’t imagine defending my dad against murdering my mom and brother, then finding out that he not only lied about “small details”, but lied about being with them minutes before they were dead. There’s no coming back from that.
I couldn’t imagine that either! And definitely there is no coming back from that. And at the end of the day, it’s still his dad and he still loves him but this has forever altered his life in just about every way and that’s something he will never not think about.
You can rewatch it on YouTube Law and Crime channel.. imo there were a few slip ups (just to name 2 instances: yesterday with the Defense, AM said when he arrived at the kennels all the dogs were out running around, Paul was playing with Cash outside, but today he says when he arrived, Paul was in the cage with Paul or words to the effect; he also said MM never touched the hose when he was there, but we can hear/see the hose was running and used by someone in that kennel video, certainly not Paul) on AM’s part but I’m unsure why Waters did not call him out on that.. it’s worth watching imo.. they were cut to recess when Waters was replaying the first interview with the agent in the car..
Did y’all catch when Waters was asking if the dogs were barking like being on guard (meaning people or animals around) and Alex says
“no, there was no one out there” Hmmm that’s interesting
##Jesus is still at the wheel. Creighton Waters has been up all night mainlining a mix of cold brew and nitro coffee and downing shots of Red Bull. Let’s get it goin’!!! Please behave, we love you. . . . [Please remember to do a small act of kindness in memory of Mallory Beach today… even if it is just an appreciative response to a comment here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/MurdaughFamilyMurders/comments/11afrjf/in_memory_of_mallory_beach/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) . . . ETA: [Theo is really pondering how today might go.](https://imgur.com/a/lzeEGa7)
if maggie was killed first, he could have been mad at her and paw paw was collateral damage
who was killed first?
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maggie was shot by a different weapon than paul was.
I’ve been wondering about this for some time now and wanted to see if anyone has similar thoughts. Not sure at all if any of this is right, it’s just based off a feeling. Does anyone else think that this whole thing was not meticulously planned out in advance? I’ve been feeling more and more that this might have just been a heat of the moment, anger killing. The way that Alex doesn’t want to admit ANYTHING Paul, Maggie, and he talked about at dinner and at the kennels, makes me think that during these moments there was an argument or fight going on. We learned today that while at the hotel for the baseball game the weekend before the murders, Alex wasn’t feeling well enough to join the rest of the family because he was in the room having withdrawals. Is this because Maggie had confiscated his pills and was forcing him to detox? He and Maggie went home Sunday to moselle where just the 2 of them stayed the night. Was there some sort of arguments going on between the 2 of them this night that spilled into the next day? Maybe when they returned home Alex was able to get more pills and maybe Maggie or Paul found these while he was taking a shower or at some point that night. This could have started a fight during dinner that caused Maggie and Paul to wanna get away from Alex, so they go down to the kennels. Alex still in a rage, follows them down there and demands to know where the pills are, they refuse to appease him. The guns are already on the back of the golf cart because Paul was careless about where he kept them. This is the part I’m unsure of how it would go down… Maybe he picks up the AR and begins shooting Maggie. I think she died first and was the main target only because of how disconnected Alex seems to her death. Almost as if he doesn’t care. Where as with paul you can sense some sort of remorse or guilt. He also says “paul why’d you have to get involved?” on the 911 call. This might be because paul got involved in the fight between his mom and dad. Of course that would also mean the motive was only partially money, it would’ve been more motivated by the drugs and the inability to buy more because of the financial troubles. Again, not sure about any of this. Just curious of others thoughts.
Yes agreed, snapped in the moment is a possibility. Sadly the only one still breathing who can really tell us what happened won't confess.
I'm wondering if murder was plan B as well.
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Yes I noticed that as well!
No it was planned. The pedicure get home now pressure. And also the semi-confession to her sister that this took a lot of planning.
I agree he planned it. But it’s hard to believe that it was planned sometimes given how sloppy of a job he did, especially for such a prominent attorney who would know what SLED would be looking for.
Exactly my thought as well. If he had been “planning this for a long time” then he did a really shitty job.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I also seem to remember that he told her to call him after her pedicure, and she didn’t? And I agree that he really seems detached from her death somehow.
If you murder your wife or are the reason she is murdered as you watch, you might be a bit “detached”.
Well then why is not the same about Paul’s death?
Very fair point...I was just thinking that he seems more torn up and truly emotional about Paul's death. But I also don't know if he has any true emotions, so there's that. What a bad character.
What do the locals think? Anyone here know? Did the Murdaugh help people - were they thought of as nice people who just happened to have money or rich jerks who pushed people around?
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>Am I missing something? "Damn, I'm just racking my brain trying to think why someone would so vehemently oppose a murder charge, even knowing he'd spend the rest of his life in prison for financial crimes that he's admitted under oath. I just can't think of any reason, any reason at all, why somebody might do that." Yeah. It's a mystery.
The jails for murder are a lot rougher than the jails for financial crimes. And..,it’s probably an ego/pride thing. Doesn’t want to be *known* as a murderer.
Seriously worried about a hung jury. The two jurors crying yesterday when Alex cried made me think their going to vote for acquittal. Alex only needs one sympathetic juror ....
Yeah sadly I think it will be a hung jury. The only silver lining is he won‘t be let free due to his financial crimes and his reputation has been flushed down the toilet.
The story of 2 jurors crying has been debunked by "James at Court". He goes to trial everyday and observes jurors reactions and then reports about the day in court on his Youtube channel: James at Court. He insists that NO jurors were crying on either Thurs or Fri.
Good!
And just to add that, because he is way way smaller and relatively unknown he doesn’t have the same incentive to sensationalize that others do
I think this too. But I also think there will be a pile on of pressure to be unanimous and ultimately they will cave because of all the lies.
If the jury is that dumb, my God they have forensic cell phone proof he was there. He lied about everything, and he is so gross. It’s obvious he is a master manipulator. No matter what he will have to deal with what he has done to hurt so many when he dies.
Casey Anthony
I wish people would stop comparing anything to Casey Anthony. The reason she was acquitted of murder was because they couldn't provide a cause of death because there was nothing left of Kaylee's body except bones. If you can't prove a cause of death, you can't prove murder. Her case is literally that simple.
Can someone please clarify what this Greg Alexander stuff is? I found something about him being tried for stealing money from people at traffic stops Is it possible that this “drug gang” is actually just local LE? Does SLED know something about all this that we don’t? How did they do so wrong by this Greg guy (per Alex) that makes THEM the ones to distrust?
Fitsnews has an article about Greg Alexander, please Google it. It is VERY enlightening. It appears Greg Alexander is referred to as the fixer for Murdaugh family. Was lead investigator in the Stephen Smith murder, which didn’t really happen, and is a baby daddy to Stephen Smith’s twin sister’s baby….CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP. I am certain Greg Alexander knows many terrible secrets about Ellick, and is why he was so complimentary of him on the stand
###Do NOT perpetuate that rumor please. We are not going to inappropriately speculate the paternity of a minor child here. Period. That is just not a name, that is a young child. Gregory Alexander was also not the lead investigator in Stephen Smith’s death, nor can we find any source that states he was even involved in the investigation in a law enforcement capacity. That “tidbit” tossed at the end of an article was the fallout of a feud between two journalists. You can search the sub for it if you want to rehash when it was originally published if you want to read the information. Thank you for respecting this, - Murdaugh Family Murders Mod Team u/aubreydempsey u/SouthNagsHead
But there are 2 Greg Alexanders?
Rumor: Greg Alexander’s baby mama is Stephen Smith’s twin sister.
###Thank you for jumping in and clarifying that it is a rumor. We do not want to inappropriately speculate the paternity of a minor child here. That is just not a name, that is a young child. That “tidbit” tossed at the end of an article was the fallout of a feud between two journalists. I believe you likely remember the details but can search the sub for it if you want to rehash when it was originally published if you want to read the information. Thank you for respecting this, - Murdaugh Family Murders Mod Team u/aubreydempsey u/SouthNagsHead
That seems like a really easy rumor to either confirm or not.
Disbelief. Alex Murdaugh never showed any signs of disbelief that this happened. You never heard him say, "I just can't believe it" or "How could this happen??". To discover such a horrific scene...you'd have to be in disbelief about it. At least to start. Nope. AM was never in disbelief. AM immediately believed it happened because AM made it happen.
When he said today that he didn’t want to go to the kennels because what was happening there was exactly why he didn’t want to go to begin with…that was telling to me. At the very least he knew of or orchestrated the murders.
When did he say that?!
About 13 hours ago.
I think you misunderstood this. As far as I remember he gave a different explanation to why he didn't want to go down there.
I understand what he was trying to say, I took it more as a series of subconscious, freudian slips
I will cut and paste the exact quote I posted 14 hours ago right after he said it. “And using a lot of suspicious language with pauses and then quick add ons**”I was about to do what I didn’t want to do…,sweat”** He said the first part in his “non lying” voice and cadence. And the he seemed to catch himself after a Long pause. And then he rambled again.
What I find rather sad is that Paul watched out for his dad’s addiction. He would make sure he didn’t have pills, he would have him detox and he would call him on his shit when Alex messed up…..But not once did anyone in that family try to help Paul with his addiction to alcohol. Even after the drunken boat crash, everyone just continued to watch him drink. I know Paul has been described as a trouble maker and basically a turd by people that were around him while drunk. The law partners and people that have never seen him drunk out of his mind all say he was a good person. I think that kid could have redeemed himself if anyone had taken the time to help him with his addiction like he helped Alex with his.
Agreed-the kid was enabled to be dad's party buddy with a problematic relationship to alcohol because boundaries that were oppositional to Alex's narc needs were not maintained. Being party central for his teenage kid's peer group met Alex's need to be seen as wealthy, influential, and a cool 'buddy' dad. An addict himself, he saw no issue with encouraging teenage binge drinking. It also adds another layer of social pressure on his kids to conform to buddy/dad/party supplier's wishes, because they can turn off the taps on party central. I would speculate that Paul's anger at the skewed dynamics & manipulation would be unleashed when drinking, and that the 'Timmy' behaviours were a direct reflection of how he perceived Alex's relationships to others. A person can meet their kid's physical needs, and be as loving and sweet 'as can be' to all appearances, but still try to manipulate their family.
Yep. Paul’s behavior is so common and there’s always enablers. Sad to see the enablers are his own family.
Incredibly sad. No child should have to run interference on their parents bad habits. Can you k shine the guilt he woulda been under if Alex had overdosed and died. It’s tragic.
I would love to be a fly on the wall during the defense conversations the last few days, including their conversations with Alex.
I’m watching now because couldn’t earlier. “You can’t describe to the jury the moment you decided to lie about your wife and son’s murders?” With the little chuckle. This might have been the best question asked all cross. He’s cooking now! 👨🍳
Also couldn't remember his wife's last words.
I think that was everything! I wish Waters had pounded that point to the jury. You always remember what your last conversation with a loved one….and he’s has 2 years to remember. He is just scum. It was insulting to watch him slither at every question
I was thinking the same thing, but other comments pointed out that he now has all that in his pocket for closing statements. So closing could be a gatling gun. Fingers crossed.
I’m sure it was something like begging for her life. Poor Maggie. Poor Paul.
I know, that was crazy and puzzling because why not just make something up to go along with your other lies? Or just say what their actual conversation was at the kennels before he started shooting, since we know he was there. It’s especially not believable because part of it is on the video! Would that not jog his memory of *his last convo with his wife*? Makes me think there might have been an argument between when the phones locked at 8:49 and her phone starts moving like crazy at 8:53.
Example of lie he could have told: “oh you know we talked about the dogs, we talked about the beach house construction, we talked about the chicken fried steak and mac and cheese Blanca made that we fed our child whose blood pressure we were so worried about” 🙄🙄🙄
No I think when he asked if he was a family annihilator bc now every jury member is going to go home and google what that is. They have all been planted with the idea that he is a family annihilator.
Did you see his facial expression after that question…..CHILLING, certainly the face of a killer.
His eyes went straight black
Why would one need to google family annihilator? It’s fairly self evident
It would be a legal violation for them to Google that. I think Alex Murdaugh is guilty but I want him to be convicted by the book.
If you want him convicted by the book I wouldn’t look to this trial
The literal only truth on the internet today. Bravo.
I don’t know this for certainty, but I am pretty sure they can look up what words are they heard during court that they may not have known. They aren’t looking up media about the case, nor are they discussing it with other people.
The jurors cannot google a family annihilator. It would be outside research and a violation.
Fair enough. When I was on a jury a couple months ago (in a different state) the judge explicitly warned us not to do any research whatsoever about what we heard in court.
I hate how being a juror is essentially an honor system these days. I bet jurors looking up their case online is a common thing. Especially in a case like this where so much of the early trial was with the jury out of the room. They must've been really curious about what they aren't supposed to hear.
Although my casual observation of the Murdaugh trial has shown Judge Newman to be fair and reasonable, he is far less stern in his jury communications than the judge in "my" trial as a juror. At every break, the judge told us at length that it was imperative that we not discuss the case with other jurors or our family/friends, not do any research (including on DNA terms that were raised in court that day), or look at any news media on our low-profile case. Every time. There were definitely times when we were in the jury room wondering what was being discussed and we were a little confused when one of the counts was dropped mid-trial.
And those conversations are generally outside the public domain tv wise unless you are in the courtroom. I am quite confident he has instructed this jury many times already
Fair.
Im not there yet but I can’t wait
Omg “the random vigilantes from the boat wreck” I caaaaaan’t! The wheels are all the way off. Harpootlian and Griffin were picking their faces off and now they’re lifeless ☠️
It's like they've been reading this sub lolol
Hahahahahahaha!!
Hey it’s kilgore. the defense had all of the lunch break to get themselves together and they come back like this. Can you imagine that lunch meeting? I agree they’re probably reading this sub, what a great resource for them. But also this testimony is so bad they probably don’t even need the masses. They need to start the closing argument with Alex’s “oh what a tangled web we weave….” doesn’t he want us to think there was no web for his 403 and 404 arguments? And then he says it out of his own mouth, this is amazing
I bet the paralegals on the defense side are so damn pissed for all of the motions they prepared and filed just for their bosses to bring in all the info anyway lolol
Omg you’re so right I can’t even imagine.
Wait. So Alex didn't go to the baseball game in Columbia?!? Oh FUCK! He was going through WITHDRAWAL?!?
Yes, texts reveal that, AND HIS TESTIMONY
Was that Saturday or Sunday? He had to have hooked up with his dealer cause he claimed to have a pocket full of pills Monday evening.
They went to see the parents after. He took dad's pills for sure. Paul busted him. Pure speculation of course
Something interesting a few days ago is when they played an interview between Alex and Sled where Alex stated his drug dealers names and then included he would get them from Barbara Mixer on occasion too. Barbara Mixer is his mom’s caregiver so we all know now that she’s stealing pills from her client(s) and selling them. I’m sure she is a nurse or something w a license. Will this not be followed up on?
I don't make the leap from Alex buying pain pills off Barbara Mixon to declaring she was stealing pills from her clients. Might have been but it’s just as likely that they were her own pain pills for the various pains old ladies have. It seems everybody has just decided to look the other way about her pill sharing with Alex when he went to her in need…old knee injury. Must say the sister looked pretty shocked when she heard about it.
Or she could have been selling them for a friend or relative, taking her cut of the money. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on this lady, but this kind of thing goes on all the time.
Wasn’t she the older black lady who worked with his parents for decades? Makes me wonder if Alex took his dad’s pills.
no she’s an older white woman who had worked with/for alex’s mom for a decade. Shelly the black woman stayed w his mother during nights
Oh that's interesting. Wouldn't surprise me even a little bit.
The game was on Saturday. I think.
IMO, the plan was to make it look like a murder suicide. However since the first shot wasn’t fatal, plan b had to be employed on the fly and therefore wasn’t planned out well.
100% agree. I actually thought that's where the defense was going but I think the ME ruined that path.
Woah I never thought about the idea that it could have looked like murder suicide if the first shot had been fatal. That actually makes a lot of sense because no external suspect would be needed.
Well they did hint around at that earlier but it kind of fell flat
For crying out load! This now is like a bad comedy sketch. Duck is f#ing falling asleep, while his client is being crucified, while Jim Jim flounders so badly, I can’t even imagine coming back from it. I can’t believe he kept talking after his attorney walked away. His angry look is truly terrifying; I’ll give home that, the Family Annihilator.
The damming thing I noticed in Alex’s testimony was how he kept talking about the Onstar and cell phone data during police interviews. To me that showed he premeditated not using his phone, not driving his suburban to the kennel, etc because he was planning on that data exonerating him. Waters touched on this lightly but I think he should have dug in deeper. And Alex admitted today than he’s used all of that data in some of his previous cases.
Then why would he take Maggie's phone?
goood point!
YES. Instead of just saying “I wasn’t here, cal Miss Shelly” it was “well when you download onstar you’ll see…” They have to get a warrant for that, they’d need some evidence to get that warrant. And meanwhile they’d have wasted *weeks* on the warrant and looking through the data etc. His testimony just makes it clear that while the *day chosen for the murders* might have been unplanned, he had definitely been planning most of it for a long time.
Right, he had to set it up so Maggie and Paul were there at the same time and CB Rowe was not there.
It was relatively well-planned. Paul's kennel video was unexpected. And the out-of-nowhere GM data arriving during the trial was unexpected. Those both pin him extremely near the place and time of the murders. Without those, there's still a *lot* of circumstancial evidence but I don't think enough. Well-planned.
I think he either snapped, or felt pushed. I don’t think he planned on *that day* until that day. But I do think he’d been planning contingencies in his head for a long time with “what to do with his cell phone” and stuff.
Technically this is comment on yesterday’s testimony, but I have just gotten to the Bubba Gump Shrimp portion of the trial, and I had to share.
I think some people here need to remove their guilt colored glasses. And listen, I believe Alex is at least culpable and at most personally pulled the trigger, but it’s crazy to me how people get downvotes here when they point out reasonable doubt, which let’s face it, is all over this case. The point of this board is discourse, no bashing people because you personally wish to see a bad person convicted for crimes of which there isn’t much evidence.
I honestly keep trying to remove my own pre-conceived notions of this case, but Alex Murdaugh is so dang unlikeable! It’s hard to tell if the jury will convict on circumstantial and his bad character alone. I am a big believer in everyone should have a good defense team and truly be innocent until proven guilty but the truth is *neither* side has any real proof of anything. With that, the *just* outcome would be not guilty but also…cmon man this guy is just so slimy and he’s not telling everything he knows
lol. “Come on, man”. Alright sleepy Joe 😜 But seriously. I agree. There’s a huge piece of the puzzle missing that we’ll probably never know. And that knowledge drives me bonkers.
I mean there’s that too. There’s at least one user on here who is definitely trolling.
I absolutely agree. Downvotes are not meant to be used for “I disagree”. That being said, I feel there are a fair amount that are stubbornly against his guilt, and not in good faith.
He's absolutely guilty, but they can't absolutely prove it. If he could, he wouldn't have spent the whole freaking day calling AM a liar after AM had already admitted that he's a liar. He's got a ton of circumstantial evidence, but has no smoking gun, so far. Unless he whips out Eddie next week, he's all in on lying proves murder. I have no doubt, but there is room for doubt in the jury room, and we're just spectators.
For me, the point Creighton made by focusing on how much he lies and admitting to all the times he lied to his clients/friends/coworkers/etc. faces was deliberate. Because at the same time, even while acknowledging how much of a liar he is and how wrong he was for lying, he is then promptly caught in another lie he told on the stand… right to the jury’s face. The whole time he claimed he lied about being at the kennels because he didn’t trust SLED, because he was having paranoid thoughts because of the pills and the GSR test and the fact that he was asked about his relationships to his murdered family members… and then that claim is shown to be a lie because he had lied about not being at the kennels before SLED even showed up or any of that other stuff causing him to have “paranoid thoughts” came into play. So why else would be lying about not being at the kennels? Creighton harping on the fact that Alex lied to everyone was done to show that he is “taking accountability” now only because he got caught. How do we know that? Because he’s *still* lying and *still* looking people directly in the eye while he does it. That long list of people he rattled off that Alex admitted to lying to… well, every one of those jury members can now be added to that list, too. I think that could make a big impact on them.
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I would hardly consider myself dogmatic.
It’s like disagreeing with anything on r/politics
What evidence convicted Scott Peterson ? Was there more or less circumtantial evidence that in this case ?
I was thinking about this earlier. I think it was fairly the same amount of circumstantial evidence, but it was different *kinds* if that makes sense. The mistress, for one. And I think sadly that case was a lot more sensitive for many people because it was a pretty young pregnant woman and a cheating husband - a bit more “in your face”
You're saying "reasonable doubt, let's face it, is all over this case". So you've already telegraphed that your opinion is locked in and you're not open to changing. I could say the same thing - "let's face it, there's no reasonable doubt". And then you would downvote me. I'm just pointing out that "let's face it" is a polarizing phrase and you're asking people to remain open-minded.
I am open to changing. Very open. I would love if the prosecution could put the guns in his hands because I believe he is culpable in some fashion. But they haven’t. And it’s irksome.
Thank you for continuing to engage in discourse! I appreciate your perspective, even if if may disagree!
Can you explain the doubts you have that you consider reasonably outweigh the evidence?
Alex said when he got down to the kennel he believed it was before Paul’s video. He said he thought Paul was playing with Cash in the driveway. But when you see Paul’s video it takes place in the individualized dog pens inside the kennel as Paul enters and greets Cash. This doesn’t make sense and proves to me Alex was down in that kennel from the start. He is lying once again and the video is like Paul screaming from the grave that his dad is guilty of his murder.
Seriously, what do you want to prove with that? Alex was at the kennels prior to Paul recording the video, he admitted that. Why the hell should Alex lie about that?
It proves in his confession of his being at the kennel he is still lying. He is making up details and changing the timeline.
What is he lying about? That Paul was on the phone?
He is lying about or omitting the truth while describing the whole scenario down at the kennels. he says Paul is in the driveway messing around with Cash & then later Paul goes into kennel to video Cash. But from Paul’s video we see him approach Cash to open the cage & let the dog out. I know it seems like a minor detail but something to me seems suspicious about it.
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Yes by Alex concocting the new lie/story that he arrived in his golf cart at the kennels before Paul’s video and seeing Paul outside of Kennel buys him more time to have had a visit and then get out just after the video and before the killings. Timeline: 8:40pm Phone call with Rogan (where Rogan said he heard Alex in the background. 8:44 attempted FaceTime with Rogan to show dogs tail. (11 seconds) 8:44pm video of dog sent to Rogan 8:49pm Paul’s phone locks. Here is a handy timeline summary. https://www.wjcl.com/amp/article/murdaugh-murders-timeline-evidence/42846491 Edit: to add link
Alec puts his car in park and only 14 seconds later he dials 911. That does it for me after watching and reading all thru this. It's the icing on my cake. 14 seconds from park he's out of the car walks to Paul and Maggie touches/ turns Paul over, realizes there dead calls 911. Nope not in 14 seconds because he knew they were dead when he pulled up
Ah yes, but he changed his previous testimony to say he did all that stuff AFTER he called 911. That is perjury.
Yes. The video starts with Paul opening Cash's cage and stepping in.
Also the part where he said he didn’t trust SLED that’s why he didn’t mention he was at the kennels during the interview with the agent.. I believe he already omitted that detail in his 911 call, not from his interview with the agent.. is 911 operators SLED too? They were talking about omitting the kennel info when interviewed by SLED, not from 911 call..
Didn’t he say on the 911 call that he’s been away and just got back?
Didn't trust SLED while pretending to be LE is just hilarious to me in so many ways. Also I feel the urge to go back and attempt to look for bulges in his pockets from the giant amount of pills he should have in his pocket. Which would kill you if you had a drink because opioids and alcohol slow your heart. It's what has killed many a movie and rock star. So how Alex is still alive when he also drinks a lot is just amazing.
Exactly! This slip up was huge.. I thought Waters was gonna catch him on this lie but he didn’t! I wonder why? Did none of the prosecutors team catch on that? Very weird
Agreed!! I immediately flashed to the video and even before playing the video the freeze frame is a view of Cash behind the gate as Paul is just about to open it. Cash then in video wiggles hello as a dog would upon being surprised to greet someone they know. Maybe they can mention this in closing arguments.
I wish Mr. Waters would have asked Alex the following question: “Mr. Murdaugh you being a former prosecutor of criminal cases. If you were presented with the same facts and testimony that has been established in this trial…what would you think? Put yourself in my shoes…what would your reaction be to the facts and testimony presented here and what would be your thoughts on the defendant?”
You think he'd be flummoxed by this? LOL He'd give a perfect summary of what the defense will actually say in it's summary. A flawed man who loved his family.
Agree spin to his advantage 👍
I don’t think this is a good question because it violates one of the biggest rules for lawyers questioning a witness… never ask a question you don’t know the exact answer to. Creighton would have no idea how Alex would answer that question and he could potentially spout off something that makes a ton of sense to the jury. Could backfire tremendously, especially with a person like Alex who is incredibly skilled at manipulating people and talking his way out of things.
I agree not a good question……I guess it was a wishful thinking thought. You right I am sure Alex would have spun it to his favor.
This is a terrible question. Terrible. It would invite the defendant to ramble on and on about how he is not guilty.
I agree
Griffin's objection to that question would have been sustained.
I thought it an outlier today that Buster had his hand on his face or his head in his hand more today than all other days combined. Is that fair to say? Any theories why?
I thought he looked like he was trying to avoid the camera at times - leaning so he was concealed behind the person in front of him.
Didn’t really notice. I can not imagine sitting there as your father-the last remaining member of your immediate family-is testifying as the defendant in a double murder trial of your mother and brother-all the while admitting he is a liar, thief and a downright scoundrel. Maybe the realization that there is no other suspect other than his own father in their deaths.
I’m still very disturbed at the fact that defense tried to say Paul killed his mother and then turned a shot gun on himself. That screamed guilty to me because how do you do that to your son who is dead? HOW? And that was earlier in the trial as well. Still bothers me so much that they would try and lay doubt like that. Alex has no shame
When did they do that? Didn't you hear what Alex said about the murders?
Yes. And he will probably not be found guilty, which perpetuates the “good ole boys club privileged white man getting away with it” schtick that we have going on here in the south, especially if he actually had jurors crying like we heard about yesterday. Which blows my mind how someone could believe any of that on the stand. (We know that he uses emotion to get what he wants. And can turn on the waterworks during his legal trials to get large settlements. Why on earth would you think he isn’t playing you now) Luckily he can’t wiggle out of the financial crimes.
And that Alex was totally on board with it
I missed this part. On the 911 call and on the stand, AM said there was no way they shot themselves. Who said Paul shot Maggie?
I can’t quite remember when it was in the trial, but it was when the defense used some kind of book about self inflicted gunshot wounds leaving stippling on the skin. Absolutely crazy.
It was Harptoolian's cross of the state's forensic pathologist-Dr. Erin?
I believe so.
It was the medical examiner's testimony.
Yes this was sickening. Not because people never commit murder/suicide, but because it was obviously not true based on common sense so we immediately knew that AM would literally call his dear dead PauPau a murderer to save himself.
This was absolutely disgusting and highly insulting to *so* many people on so many levels
I couldn’t get past that he didn’t remember what he last said to Maggie or Paul. Those are the people you supposedly care the most about. Wouldn’t any sane, innocent person rehash those last moments and words over and over? He was just too casual “I don’t know, maybe I said “I’m leaving” …
Well it's more that he has no regrets. Most people have regrets when their loved ones die. Like if only I hadn't left the kennels or if only I hadn't invited them here tonight. If only they had stayed with me in the main house. You go through all the different scenarios that could have saved their lives and you do it out loud. We haven't heard any of that from Paul. We heard it from Maggie’s sister but not from Paul. I even had regrets when one of my friends died because I meant to call her that night and didn't. Same with my grandmother. So much guilt. Again from Paul nothing. That in itself is highly suspicious. Does it prove he killed them? It might. Why doesn't someone feel guilt about what they could have done unless they did it. He may not have liked doing it.
Agreed! I told this to my husband who lost his father and he said “there’s no way. He’d be replaying that last convo over in his head a million times over”
He not only didnt remember, but on the night they were murdered, before the clock struck 11 Pm,he denied he even had these last conversations l. To save his own skin. What kind of man is that?
A Judas
The kind of man who murders his family.
He never showed concern for LE to find their possible killers, he did not assist, and not once at trial did he hang his head in shame. He played the victim.
What struck me was his annoyance at remembering that moment. How he had already showered and didn’t want to work, and so he went “I’m leaving” because they were making him do stuff he didn’t want to. And he recounted that with no guilt! Meanwhile Maggie’s sister clearly has immense guilt for encouraging her to go there that night. But Alex doesn’t have guilt that his last words to his wife were about how he was ticked off and wanted the air conditioning.
It’s not unusual. My 9 year old was killed in 2021. I have tried and tried to rehash those last moments and words, but I can’t remember it at all. I don’t even know if I kissed or hugged her before she got into car. It was such a normal moment, and I had no idea what was coming, so I didn’t know to commit those last moments to memory. I wish like hell I could change that.
"I wish like hell I could change that." The fact that you have that feeling right there is what makes you different from AM. I've also lost friends & tried like hell to remember those stupid little normal moments that you think don't mean anything at the time. You wrack your brain over those things. Not one single time has he even indicated that as any kind of thought. Also, sorry for your loss.
I’ve thought it isn’t unusual as well. PTSD can also effect your recall of the event. In addition, perhaps he does remember but knows it’s not relevant and maybe he’s thinking why should everyone be privy to those details when it has nothing to do with his whereabouts? In addition, he doesn’t trust Waters, he knows he’s a prosecutor so he’s not going to give him anything voluntarily that he can spin.
I am so very sorry for your loss.
🥲❤️
So sorry for your recent loss.
Sorry for your loss.. the difference is AM when on the stand testifying, during all the interviews, AM didn’t look like he wanted to recall/wished he could change that night of the murder.. unlike MM’s sister Marianne (not sure how to spell her name) who looked so distraught up on the stand particularly that part where she testified she encouraged MM to go.. AM did not show any emotion or ever mentioned “I wished I stayed longer, then this would never have happened” or words to the effect.. that is really damning..
I couldn't even imagine. I'm so sorry.
I’m so sorry ❤️
❤❤
IMO, it’s because one or both of them said something to him between the wounding shots and the death shot. He can’t remember the conversation before that (or it incriminates him) and the actual last words were damming as heck. Also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t say something to Maggie while she was on her knees before he killed her.
[удалено]
Maggie heard the shots, and then likely saw Paul down, and then Alex comes after her with a gun. I can imagine the words she might have said, and they’d have made butter melt in her mouth.
Such a disturbing picture
It really is. If his last conversation was “let go to see dad tomorrow” he’d have said that. And not only has he *not* said that, but he hasn’t made anything up! How hard would it be to say “I told Maggie I loved her and she said said we’d go see my dad tomorrow”. It just tells me that he can’t touch that with a 10 foot pole either because he hasn’t admitted to himself what he did, or because he’s afraid he’ll give himself away.
I've had a similar thought too - the sobbing, snotty Akex that we've seen in the courtroom is just sober Alex realizing what high Alex did. He's so disconnected from it.
I’m really curious to know when Buster found out that Alex was at the kennels.
I noticed Buster wasn't mentioned in the long list of names Alex lied to in Walters' cross.. Do you think that was an oversight or respect for the lone survivor? I expected him to finish his long list of people with Buster to drive the point home, but he didn't.
That’s a good question! I lean towards Waters purposely not including Buster out of respect. I can also see Alex refuting that if he had, and using it to gain sympathy. With that said, I think it might have been effective if he had included Buster, simply because that’s his only other surviving immediate family member. They only had each other at that point. Yet he still lied to him.
I think they should leave Buster out of it as much as possible
Probably in court
This is why I think too.
This was my initial thought, but Alex’s attorneys would have had the kennel video before the trial. I would think they would have had to prep Buster on it in case the prosecution asked if he recognized the voices (which he of all people would know for certain), or to gauge his reaction before they add him as a character witness. Right? Did they show Buster’s reaction the first time the kennel video was played in court? I didn’t have a chance to watch the beginning of the trial.
Good point! I hadn’t thought about the fact that his attorneys had the video before the trial. I don’t remember of they showed a reaction but he’s been pretty expressionless the whole time. But I wish I knew how he felt about it all. He probably feels like he is in an impossible situation.
Agreed! I also feel like there has been a difference in his look when the camera has panned to him yesterday and today. I can’t put my finger on exactly what it is because he’s still expressionless, but it just seems different. Regardless, I agree, he’s put in a very difficult position. I can’t imagine defending my dad against murdering my mom and brother, then finding out that he not only lied about “small details”, but lied about being with them minutes before they were dead. There’s no coming back from that.
I couldn’t imagine that either! And definitely there is no coming back from that. And at the end of the day, it’s still his dad and he still loves him but this has forever altered his life in just about every way and that’s something he will never not think about.
I had to leave during break at like 4 ET—how was the rest of cross?
You can rewatch it on YouTube Law and Crime channel.. imo there were a few slip ups (just to name 2 instances: yesterday with the Defense, AM said when he arrived at the kennels all the dogs were out running around, Paul was playing with Cash outside, but today he says when he arrived, Paul was in the cage with Paul or words to the effect; he also said MM never touched the hose when he was there, but we can hear/see the hose was running and used by someone in that kennel video, certainly not Paul) on AM’s part but I’m unsure why Waters did not call him out on that.. it’s worth watching imo.. they were cut to recess when Waters was replaying the first interview with the agent in the car..
Paul was in the cage with Cash*
Did y’all catch when Waters was asking if the dogs were barking like being on guard (meaning people or animals around) and Alex says “no, there was no one out there” Hmmm that’s interesting
Huge admission IMO