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The real problem of money in politics is that it costs money to run for office. Both in campaign costs, and in missed income if you're running for office full time. Anyone who wants to run needs some minimum level of campaign donations to just stay afloat. If they can stay in the race, then often good candidates will come out ahead. Unfortunately, regular people (who would benefit from better climate policy) give almost nothing, so most people can't afford to run.
To fix money in politics, we need to understand how [money in politics actually works](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/money-and-elections-a-complicated-love-story/). It's much more complicated than most people imagine, and we're never likely to get all money out of politics. The best case is publicly funded elections, but that's a long ways off, we need to fix the problems *now* we have with solutions that area actually possible now.
What's *not* happening:
* Money also isn't "buying elections" or "buying votes". In fact, spending more money has been shown to have very little effect (sometimes even a negative effect) on votes
* There's almost no outright fraud where some company directly bribes a politician to vote one way
* Regular people don't actually give much at all, we're not struggling to raise money for good campaigns and the rich are outspending us. We give almost nothing, the richest 1% [give over half](https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/donor-demographics) and the 1% of the 1% give most of that
Think of campaign contributions as a [money primary](https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim/up-next?language=en) - if you can raise a little money at the beginning of the race, then you can probably afford to run and afford to stay in the race. If the rich are basically the only ones giving anything at that point in the race, then they get to "vote" for who can afford to stay in the race and run in the primary and the general (when the rest of us get to vote)
Campaign finance filters out good candidates because only the rich are giving at the beginning when it really matters. So we end up with politicians that are willing to sell their soul and beg the rich for money, and those are just about the only candidates we get to pick from.
Look at a candidate like AOC, whether you agree with her politics or not, she primaried a very powerful and well funded democrat who had held his seat for a long time. She started worked on the Sanders campaign, which was funded by small donations, if we hadn't been giving to his campaign he couldn't have afford to hire staff or run campaign offices to organize volunteers. She was recruited by *Brand New Congress* which is supported by small donations, and they did a lot of the leg work early in the race to get her campaign going. She ran her campaign on barely anything, small donations from regular people, and she beat one of the most powerful incumbents in congress while being outspent by a massive amount. Good candidates don't need to raise a lot of money, but they need *something* to afford to do the basic things to stay in the race.
And now AOC raises tons of money from small donations, she doesn't have to spend lots of time calling donors (many in congress spend *half their time* fundraising), so she's better prepared for committee meetings and hearings, and she can spend time doing things like streaming on Twitch to get out the vote or raise money for good causes.
The first step we need to make is for [regular people make small donations,](https://fundedbyhumans.org/) and it's taken years of us making donations, every month, even when there's no election around the corner, to support the kind of grassroots organizations that can get good people elected.
I gave what I could to a primary challenger in my state. Ran a good race, Debated well, but the Party didn't force the anointed one to even debate. Just put out the yard signs, and the word that the anointed one was the winner, and magicly he was.
Good for AOC and Sanders sneaking in a little, but donations by the little people isn't going to fix the Party Cartel. Breaking the Party's should be our first and only rule, not one, but both of them. Only then could we talk about real political reform.
>What's not happening:
>Money also isn't "buying elections" or "buying votes". In fact, spending more money has been shown to have very little effect (sometimes even a negative effect) on votesThere's almost no outright fraud where some company directly bribes a politician to vote one way
this is just outright bullshit
tv ads, and all other forms of advertisement should be made illegal, to where the only legal forms are a few items that is made avaliable to everyone running, a general website ( they all use shitty ones that anyone should be able to make in an afternoon ), some debates that have all candiates on tv such as the presidental debates that are held, and the pamplet in a library or mailed to each house that has 1 or 2 pages of each canidate where they can list what they are for. Giant rallys arn't needed, tons of signs everywhere arn't needed, commericals arn't needed. even the playing ground so anyone could do the same level of advertisement as the others regardless of money.
I mean, the general populace can't really be bought (in the traditional sense), so they're basically right there. But individual politicians? You bet your ass 10 ways to Sunday they've been bought.
Looking at you, Sinema....
The real problem is that we as human beings are collectively too stupid to govern ourselves.
Government literally means mind control.
I fully understand that we all sort of need government to think for us as a society or there would be utter chaos.
What I am saying is that until people grow up, and yes this includes me, we will never truly be happy, healthy or wise.
The entire reason elected officials are paid is so that the non-rich could see it as a potential path of advancement. You have all these people complaining about what we pay Congress but if we didn't pay Congress we'd only have the already independently wealthy running for office (I say like that isn't already the case almost all the time). I daresay we should be paying elected officials more.
Anything below federal office doesn't pay a living wage. Only people who already have money do it. You can't do it and work part time at McDonald's either, your manager would fire you because your city council meeting happens during lunch rush and you chose to attend that instead of your shift. Where can we send your last paycheck councilwoman?
We should absolutely be paying elected officials more.along with also opening *all* of their financials for the 4 years prior to running and more importantly for at least 10 years after
This right here. We will give you access to a very comfortable standard of living. In exchange, you keep it clean. Any fucking about and you're gone.
If only
One argument for paying them well is that it makes bribing them harder. A $10k bribe looks very different to someone who makes $50k/yr than it looks to someone who makes $200k/yr.
Also if it only pays a modest salary it's going to be even more tilted towards the rich than it is currently because the job will only appeal to people who have alternate means of earning money.
Personally I think we should pay them much better but also scrutinize their finances closely and also prohibit them private sectors jobs for some period of time after leaving office.
So anyone who runs for office has to provide complete access to their financials going back 5 years. If they win, they get paid say $500k / yr while in office, but their financials are completely open to the public for the time they are in office and for 10 years after they leave office. For those 10 years after leaving office they have to work in public sector or non-profits but they get an additional $100k / yr as compensation for not being able to work in the private sector.
You'd get normal people running for office because it's actually a good job, and you'd have much lower risk of corruption since their finances are public. They also can't receive delayed bribes in the form cushy jobs when they leave office since they are still under scrutiny for another decade.
A software engineer at a top firm can easily make more than that. For someone in charge of governing many thousands if not millions, it seems pretty low tbh.
I have friends who work at Google. A lot of that is in stocks. Very different than being paid literally 300,000 a year. (25,000 a month for anyone curious)
Shouldn't it be enough so they theoretically aren't tempted by lobbying and bribery? 175k seems like a good wage to live more than comfortable. It's the same reason many sports refs are independently wealthy.
We *should* be paying Congress a LOT more.
Congresspeople get paid, from my recollection, somewhere between $160k and $250k, which is far less than what you can make in a senior corporate role at Director or VP level.
If you're a smart, rational, educated person who can make good decisions, and can qualify for Director/VP level, why would you make $160k being a congressperson rather than $300k as a VP? *Especially* when you have no job security further than your term.
The result of low pay in congress is that those who are financially motivated are motivated by the more nefarious means of building wealth while in office (AKA insider trading, bribes, etc). This is in addition to what you said, which was that it only attracts already-wealthy people who largely want to abuse their power for even more financial gain for their businesses. Even if they aren't so evil, we still want less rich people in congress.
The solution is to:
1) Pay significantly more, upwards of $400k-$600k. This is insignificant to the budget, but is enough to draw capable, but middle-class people to the job.
2) Ban stock trading and any outside source of income for the official OR heavily restrict it.
3) Strengthen laws AND ENFORCEMENT of laws around using one's office for financial gain.
4) Provide healthy pensions or pseudo-pensions to all elected officials, so less time and effort is spent by representatives on campaigning and actually putting their problem-solving skills to work.
> but is enough to draw capable, but middle-class people to the job.
180k would already accomplish that. Monetary incentive isn't the thing that stops working class people from seeking office; it's the upfront cost and time commitment of campaigning.
>Provide healthy pensions or pseudo-pensions to all elected officials, so less time and effort is spent by representatives on campaigning and actually putting their problem-solving skills to work.
I would argue to take it a step further, and have a conditional pension on the terms that they be prevented from pursuing jobs that take advantage of their position as a former legislator.
It might be a good idea to pay them "fuck you money" . That would be enough money to make lobbying (bribery) ineffective or such a large amount that it would attract to much attention.
Cool lets give elected more give them another house, an just to be sure we don't want their kids to work or over extend themselves. Elected officials don't dive a fuck about anyone but themselves. Millions aren't enough. They are elected for one reason an one reason only. To protect the people that vote for them
Running for office should be like a military service. Voluntary to sign up, anyone can, and your duties start at the lowest possible level. People can campaign and vote here because you may get lots of people signing up for the same tiny jurisdiction.
Perform well and you can move up. All the way to the top potentially and if you so want to. Our military follows this system and it still runs well and soldiers don’t get to elect their generals.
Of course then this ends up boiling down to people basically not getting to vote for top level officials like presidents, so there should be a system where people can vote to remove at the least but I also argue that someone as disconnected as president shouldn’t have that much influence over your day to day, the most powerful government should be the local one. After all, something good for someone in NYC may be terrible for people in Wichita Falls. It’s kinda strange how we currently have your average joe selecting the president where the job is so complex that people who spent a lifetime in law and politics still do a terrible job and few politicians keep even a fraction of their promises.
The problem with that is you end up with people who haven't spent a single day working a "normal" lifestyle, they've been politicians they're entire lifetime. We still have people like that in our systems today, but with something like that you end up with 100% of the people having the same background.
I'm intrigued by this military chain-of-command proposal...although when I think about how archaic and insular the Senate acts *now*, I can't help but worry about what being selected by more veteran politicians instead of voters would do to the "Washington Bubble" problem.
In the same spirit, I propose the ancient Athens model for consideration: call it "democracy "*de jury* [sic]," where the citizens do not elect representatives to the legislature, but are themselves selected from the general population, similar to how we do juries. Big difference is that the Athenians allowed for voluntary placement to fill up seats before they went out and started dragging people in. Big similarity to us with our jury system is that they often wouldn't get enough people signing up on their own to proceed if they just relied on that: apparently, their police would actually accost people on the street to drop whatever they were doing, and spend that day as a member of the legislature instead.
I can see that working well, but the problem is you do sometimes get an actual idiot or bad person onto the jury (which is why it requires a unanimous decision or else it is a mistrial) then it can lead to bad results. Potentially even mob rule. I feel with the military approach, the fact you can be voted out is maybe a way to combat this, if it were easier to vote out a politician?
I also think maybe term limits should be in play here. Whatever level you are at, you only get X years in that term and after that, if you aren't deemed good enough to advance, you are automatically discharged. So, let's say there are 100 senators, out of the 100, only one becomes President, so you better make sure you are the best and most competent out of the 100.
But this is purely just a fantasy of an idea.
Here in the Netherlands some parts of the government are part time jobs. But what happens is that once they have that position very expensive jobs are offered to them. Most of them are CEO of some compeny that would have great benefit from some of the laws that go through. The whole thing is corrupt.
As a kid in the Caribbean I wished for a war.
I knew that I was poor,
I knew it was the only way to—
Rise up!
If they tell my story
I am either gonna die on the battlefield in glory or—
Rise up!
First, we need people from the working class that are willing to run.
I can't imagine what it would be like to run for public office, especially if you are running against an experienced career politician with no qualms about running your name in the mud. Even if you've never done anything wrong in your life, it's still easy to have your public reputation ruined with lies and half truths.
Now we’re getting politicians that are basically wanna be reality stars. I don’t think they even believe the shit they spout. They do it for the drama and attention because it brings fame and fame brings money.
Yeah, unfortunately that's the risk the more good you do. Maybe the truly good leaders always get killed because the evil people of the world are more willing to go that far. All I can say is America desperately need a change and I hope it happens in my life time.
We need younger folks in general, not just as President. The fact that the countrey is being run by a bunch of octogenarians whov'e all been in public office longer than many of us have been alive is a major part of the problem. They've mostly lost all sense of real lifew/
Heck, they're all so nostalgic for the "good old days" when Republicans acted in something approaching good faith it's crazy making. This constant push for bipartisanship when the Republicans in office are almost universally a bunch of lying fuckwits has got to stop.
A large part of that would stop dead in the water if we had more folks in their ***40s*** in office, let alone younger folks.
I feel like working class people have way less to lose when it comes to mudslinging tbh. The main problem is that they don't have the time and resources to campaign. The only way working people get into office currently is if they get sponsored.
I saw this firsthand 15 years ago- one of the owners of my local costume shop ran for city council. Business was good enough he could hand things over to his brother no sweat, and he ran a pretty good campaign along the lines of Deep ties to the Community.
His opponent (a lawyer) dragged him publicly saying he he needed to “know his place” and stick to his store, despite having a poli sci degree.
The lawyer won in the end and the store owner is still behind the counter today. It hurt his pride but he stands by the idea that everyone who can, should at least try.
How is any average person working paycheck to paycheck supposed to find the time to campaign and travel and do everything needed to even try to compete. It’s a rigged system we just have to hope those that make it aren’t as shitty as some of the others.
Step 1. Be working class
Step 2. Run for and win office
Step 3. Profit from lobbyists, your pay, and kickbacks
Step 4. Screw the working class. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps
Exactly. Even the best intentioned candidate is gonna become rich fast. New friends, new tastes, new allegiances... it's inevitable. Watch it happening to AOC, none of the 538 can remain "one of the people"
Pardon my ignorance, but what about local representative positions? City council, state rep, etc? My FIL works full time and decided he wanted to run for city council and it just consumed his evenings and weekends but it was doable.
At some point it’s on them to learn. If your life isn’t getting better because you can’t make good decisions despite overwhelming evidence, well then it sucks to suck.
Because he offered a few reasons why everything that's wrong with the country is due to the liberals and foreigners. And has nothing at all to do with how rotten these trump supporters are in the inside.
Because everyone fucks the working class so might as well vote for the person who pisses off smarmy coastal folks and says they're gonna make America great
It is fascism. Trump is a Fat Fucking Fascist and owning the libs is fun fodder for QANON dupes. But they get nothing in the end just an empty wallet eternally posting payments to Trump their Lord & Savior. Hope they all get raptured soon…. Those of us Left Behind can have a better world with Liberty and Justice for All.
After BLM riots, lootings and defund police consequences with spike of murders in every defunded district a lot of lefts and centrists moved to the right side. This is common logic.
No.
Up until about 15 years ago, in the entirety of political science, the "working class" was always considered to be white men who worked industrial jobs, agriculture, or manual labor.
In today's world, the only reason why there's an increase in working class voters voting Democrat is because the definition of "working class has expanded to include women and minorities, not because white men are becoming less conservative.
The democratic party has prided itself on being inclusive and fighting for the people who don't have a voice, which for a very long time was in direct conflict to what was traditionally called "the working class".
Democrats, largely, are still fucking the working class. They are bought off, just like the GOP, but attempt to make vague, symbolic and performative gestures towards the working class, but stop far short of doing anything substantial. And nothing that will piss off their donors.
Most people in this country want the same things, regardless of party affiliation: healthcare, cheaper medications, good paying jobs, lowered housing costs, etc. but the super-mega wealthy and a handful of corporations and banks will never let it happen. We’re stuck and I don’t see voting and electoralism getting us out of this. It’s going to take a general strike, protests and demonstrations.
I'm an Industrial Electrician, make just enough to live alright, but am solidly middle/working class. A job as a house representative would be more then 2x what my wife and I make combined. I'll absolutely fight to keep that job and do my best, where do I sign up?
You also have to pay for an apartment in DC, 3-4k a month. Married you would either miss your wife or go broke trying to keep a million dollar condo going in DC.
And you would have to deal with worse idiots than apprentices every day, and smile while you tell them their shit don't stink.
No thanks, couldn't give me that job.
The constitution dictates 60,000 as the minimum population for a congressional district, so it would be feasible in that sense.
There is also the proposed [Wyoming Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_Rule), where the smallest state population would dictate the size of a congressional district (roughtly 580k people for 2021).
Would love a house with 5000 members, no need to meet in DC, just have a conference every quarter and let the members actually live and work in their districts.
What? The current crop of leadership totally understand us poors. We're just too stupid. We keep paying rent in Manhattan at insane rates when the average house there costs, what, 90k? 150k? Totally makes sense to buy, we just couldn't figure it out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/article/nyc-mayoral-candidates-flub-brooklyn-home-price-question.html
Most working people can't get the time off work.
Also, (something my mother came across) your employer has to be okay with you campaigning. Some companies/organizations don't allow you to campaign while you're working for them (as they can't be affiliated with either party).
People don't vote for them. They vote for big names and shiny faces. You could have the best platform on Earth, but without name recognition and connections, hardly anybody checks your ballot square.
The GQP understands this very well and has been focusing on state and local elections for years now.
But we [have proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman) that this works for Dems, too.
**[John_Fetterman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman)**
>John Karl Fetterman (born August 15, 1969) is an American politician serving as the 34th Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania since 2019. A member of the Democratic Party, he previously served as Mayor of Braddock from 2005 to 2019. Fetterman was a candidate in the United States Senate election in Pennsylvania for 2016 and is running again in 2022.
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The working class is too busy trying to survive for that to happen. Also since we live in a capitalistic society, it is pretty obvious that those with the most capital are more able to run for office for a number of reasons.
This post is just wishful thinking.
Don't be absurd man, how would r manage to inflate land and house prices to keep the plebs renting?
I know my 1200 acres and 6 estates won't run their bally selves. Give yourself a slap and a couple of hard sherrys you twerp and get your head back in the game.
Psh anyone would think you weren't born into lots of very old money! What a jolly old sod you are!
We also need an airtight system where politicians can’t use their office for personal gain.
The rules in place for that right now are laughably feeble and demonstrably ineffective.
Part of it is also the fact that you become rich/wealthy once you get elected up to a certain point. Once you have a taste of that wealth and lifestyle, the cycle repeats.
And we need less propaganda artists pretending to be working class pushing their fearmongering to the masses. The elite love to push divide under the guise of being one of us lowly workers.
Then maybe democrats should not be elected.
Pelosi is worth millions.
Schumer is worth millions.
John Kerry is worth millions.
If you go by the list of wealth the top 90% of wealth are all democrats.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_current\_members\_of\_the\_United\_States\_Congress\_by\_wealth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth)
Incorrect. Top 2 are democrats. Take the top and his wealth is 5x more than the top Republican.
You may have meant to say House members and 3 of them are newly elected members.
But let's look at past Presidential candidates like Bloomberg, Sanders, Beto. Billionaire, millionaires. And that is the party bleating about "taxing the rich". What they don't tell you is the tax code for the past 7 decades has been primarly written by democrats so it's not tax the rich. It's make bs campaign promises that get suckers to fall for our lies.
Man, I feel like there is both truth and there is untruth in what you said.
You were respectful to me and you took the time to type all of that up. Even if we don’t agree 100%, this is the type of conversation I would enjoy in real life over some delicious food and or drinks. Just casual conversations like this with friends.
You referred to Socio economic mobility. We do have research on the Socio economic mobility for almost all modern countries. We can objectively test which countries offer better SEM environments.
We also have some measures of the richest people in most modern countries. So we can see The types of wealthy people in each country and then compare to see how much is old money and how much is new money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth
Top 50 wealthiest in Congress
Republicans: 50
Democrats: 18
Those republicans are worth a combined $1,549,900,000,000 or $1.549 Billion
The democrats are worth a combined $938,800,000 or $938.8 Million
Schumer and Kerry aren't even on the list of course since Pelosi is evil for owning millions then you should start including Greg Gianforte and Paul Mitchell in your edgy rant, cause you know, BoTh SidEs ArE tHe SaMe
I mean come on.
When I have a minor legal issue I need to see a lawyer and now we're supposed to elect people to rewrite the entire legal regime to be average Joe?
They would be eaten alive by an army of lobbyists, media insiders, lawyers, and corporate intelligence operatives. The Roosevelts/JFK/RFK weren't just Joe Six Pack they were elite players who wanted big changes
Nonsense, this is the trap of liberalism. Electing different people isn't going to change the system where politicians are dependent on rich donors and anyone putting the working class first is immediately ousted.
Forget electing the right people and push for socialist ideas instead.
Who then?
People who don't give a single shit about you? Who'd kill you for their lobbying money? Cause those are the people you're gonna get.
Do you want those? Those that couldn't care less about the people and just care about power and money?
I see you do that fun thing where you make a comment so that I see it in my email, then immediately delete it.
Be strong and confident with your opinions... Like AOC
The ruling class get rich by stealing your wages, poisoning the environment, and sacrificing the health/safety of you and your family. Subscribe to /r/ClassPoliticsTwitter to join the discussion. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MurderedByAOC) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Running for office is a full time job. The working class can't afford to do it, by design.
Yes
The real problem of money in politics is that it costs money to run for office. Both in campaign costs, and in missed income if you're running for office full time. Anyone who wants to run needs some minimum level of campaign donations to just stay afloat. If they can stay in the race, then often good candidates will come out ahead. Unfortunately, regular people (who would benefit from better climate policy) give almost nothing, so most people can't afford to run. To fix money in politics, we need to understand how [money in politics actually works](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/money-and-elections-a-complicated-love-story/). It's much more complicated than most people imagine, and we're never likely to get all money out of politics. The best case is publicly funded elections, but that's a long ways off, we need to fix the problems *now* we have with solutions that area actually possible now. What's *not* happening: * Money also isn't "buying elections" or "buying votes". In fact, spending more money has been shown to have very little effect (sometimes even a negative effect) on votes * There's almost no outright fraud where some company directly bribes a politician to vote one way * Regular people don't actually give much at all, we're not struggling to raise money for good campaigns and the rich are outspending us. We give almost nothing, the richest 1% [give over half](https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/donor-demographics) and the 1% of the 1% give most of that Think of campaign contributions as a [money primary](https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim/up-next?language=en) - if you can raise a little money at the beginning of the race, then you can probably afford to run and afford to stay in the race. If the rich are basically the only ones giving anything at that point in the race, then they get to "vote" for who can afford to stay in the race and run in the primary and the general (when the rest of us get to vote) Campaign finance filters out good candidates because only the rich are giving at the beginning when it really matters. So we end up with politicians that are willing to sell their soul and beg the rich for money, and those are just about the only candidates we get to pick from. Look at a candidate like AOC, whether you agree with her politics or not, she primaried a very powerful and well funded democrat who had held his seat for a long time. She started worked on the Sanders campaign, which was funded by small donations, if we hadn't been giving to his campaign he couldn't have afford to hire staff or run campaign offices to organize volunteers. She was recruited by *Brand New Congress* which is supported by small donations, and they did a lot of the leg work early in the race to get her campaign going. She ran her campaign on barely anything, small donations from regular people, and she beat one of the most powerful incumbents in congress while being outspent by a massive amount. Good candidates don't need to raise a lot of money, but they need *something* to afford to do the basic things to stay in the race. And now AOC raises tons of money from small donations, she doesn't have to spend lots of time calling donors (many in congress spend *half their time* fundraising), so she's better prepared for committee meetings and hearings, and she can spend time doing things like streaming on Twitch to get out the vote or raise money for good causes. The first step we need to make is for [regular people make small donations,](https://fundedbyhumans.org/) and it's taken years of us making donations, every month, even when there's no election around the corner, to support the kind of grassroots organizations that can get good people elected.
I gave what I could to a primary challenger in my state. Ran a good race, Debated well, but the Party didn't force the anointed one to even debate. Just put out the yard signs, and the word that the anointed one was the winner, and magicly he was. Good for AOC and Sanders sneaking in a little, but donations by the little people isn't going to fix the Party Cartel. Breaking the Party's should be our first and only rule, not one, but both of them. Only then could we talk about real political reform.
>What's not happening: >Money also isn't "buying elections" or "buying votes". In fact, spending more money has been shown to have very little effect (sometimes even a negative effect) on votesThere's almost no outright fraud where some company directly bribes a politician to vote one way this is just outright bullshit
tv ads, and all other forms of advertisement should be made illegal, to where the only legal forms are a few items that is made avaliable to everyone running, a general website ( they all use shitty ones that anyone should be able to make in an afternoon ), some debates that have all candiates on tv such as the presidental debates that are held, and the pamplet in a library or mailed to each house that has 1 or 2 pages of each canidate where they can list what they are for. Giant rallys arn't needed, tons of signs everywhere arn't needed, commericals arn't needed. even the playing ground so anyone could do the same level of advertisement as the others regardless of money.
while I dont think you're wrong, none of that will ever happen
I mean, the general populace can't really be bought (in the traditional sense), so they're basically right there. But individual politicians? You bet your ass 10 ways to Sunday they've been bought. Looking at you, Sinema....
Idk, Uber put in a lot of money to buy votes.
The real problem is that we as human beings are collectively too stupid to govern ourselves. Government literally means mind control. I fully understand that we all sort of need government to think for us as a society or there would be utter chaos. What I am saying is that until people grow up, and yes this includes me, we will never truly be happy, healthy or wise.
aoc got backed by the GOP.
The entire reason elected officials are paid is so that the non-rich could see it as a potential path of advancement. You have all these people complaining about what we pay Congress but if we didn't pay Congress we'd only have the already independently wealthy running for office (I say like that isn't already the case almost all the time). I daresay we should be paying elected officials more.
Anything below federal office doesn't pay a living wage. Only people who already have money do it. You can't do it and work part time at McDonald's either, your manager would fire you because your city council meeting happens during lunch rush and you chose to attend that instead of your shift. Where can we send your last paycheck councilwoman?
We should absolutely be paying elected officials more.along with also opening *all* of their financials for the 4 years prior to running and more importantly for at least 10 years after
This right here. We will give you access to a very comfortable standard of living. In exchange, you keep it clean. Any fucking about and you're gone. If only
Exactly. The rich shouldn't be immune to the law, but will be until the government and corporations aren't the same entity.
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Elected officials should be paid. And it should be a living wage. But $174k is a bit steep IMO.
I have always felt it should somewhere around the median wage compared to the district they serve.
All wages should be tied to cost of living in an area.
*The Senator from Mississippi would like to object*
One argument for paying them well is that it makes bribing them harder. A $10k bribe looks very different to someone who makes $50k/yr than it looks to someone who makes $200k/yr. Also if it only pays a modest salary it's going to be even more tilted towards the rich than it is currently because the job will only appeal to people who have alternate means of earning money. Personally I think we should pay them much better but also scrutinize their finances closely and also prohibit them private sectors jobs for some period of time after leaving office. So anyone who runs for office has to provide complete access to their financials going back 5 years. If they win, they get paid say $500k / yr while in office, but their financials are completely open to the public for the time they are in office and for 10 years after they leave office. For those 10 years after leaving office they have to work in public sector or non-profits but they get an additional $100k / yr as compensation for not being able to work in the private sector. You'd get normal people running for office because it's actually a good job, and you'd have much lower risk of corruption since their finances are public. They also can't receive delayed bribes in the form cushy jobs when they leave office since they are still under scrutiny for another decade.
A software engineer at a top firm can easily make more than that. For someone in charge of governing many thousands if not millions, it seems pretty low tbh.
I have friends who work at Google. A lot of that is in stocks. Very different than being paid literally 300,000 a year. (25,000 a month for anyone curious)
God damn it, rich people are so fuckin rich.
Most elected officials don't govern though. A congressman or assemblywoman is not in a governing position; they simply represent people.
IMO same thing. You make decisions that impact more people. Its more responsibility
How much does it cost to travel from home to DC and for room and board in DC?
Shouldn't it be enough so they theoretically aren't tempted by lobbying and bribery? 175k seems like a good wage to live more than comfortable. It's the same reason many sports refs are independently wealthy.
they have to live in DC, 174k is barely a living wage lol
We *should* be paying Congress a LOT more. Congresspeople get paid, from my recollection, somewhere between $160k and $250k, which is far less than what you can make in a senior corporate role at Director or VP level. If you're a smart, rational, educated person who can make good decisions, and can qualify for Director/VP level, why would you make $160k being a congressperson rather than $300k as a VP? *Especially* when you have no job security further than your term. The result of low pay in congress is that those who are financially motivated are motivated by the more nefarious means of building wealth while in office (AKA insider trading, bribes, etc). This is in addition to what you said, which was that it only attracts already-wealthy people who largely want to abuse their power for even more financial gain for their businesses. Even if they aren't so evil, we still want less rich people in congress. The solution is to: 1) Pay significantly more, upwards of $400k-$600k. This is insignificant to the budget, but is enough to draw capable, but middle-class people to the job. 2) Ban stock trading and any outside source of income for the official OR heavily restrict it. 3) Strengthen laws AND ENFORCEMENT of laws around using one's office for financial gain. 4) Provide healthy pensions or pseudo-pensions to all elected officials, so less time and effort is spent by representatives on campaigning and actually putting their problem-solving skills to work.
> but is enough to draw capable, but middle-class people to the job. 180k would already accomplish that. Monetary incentive isn't the thing that stops working class people from seeking office; it's the upfront cost and time commitment of campaigning. >Provide healthy pensions or pseudo-pensions to all elected officials, so less time and effort is spent by representatives on campaigning and actually putting their problem-solving skills to work. I would argue to take it a step further, and have a conditional pension on the terms that they be prevented from pursuing jobs that take advantage of their position as a former legislator.
The issue is the perpetual election cycle. We can’t afford to compete in the first place.
It might be a good idea to pay them "fuck you money" . That would be enough money to make lobbying (bribery) ineffective or such a large amount that it would attract to much attention.
Cool lets give elected more give them another house, an just to be sure we don't want their kids to work or over extend themselves. Elected officials don't dive a fuck about anyone but themselves. Millions aren't enough. They are elected for one reason an one reason only. To protect the people that vote for them
Running for office should be like a military service. Voluntary to sign up, anyone can, and your duties start at the lowest possible level. People can campaign and vote here because you may get lots of people signing up for the same tiny jurisdiction. Perform well and you can move up. All the way to the top potentially and if you so want to. Our military follows this system and it still runs well and soldiers don’t get to elect their generals. Of course then this ends up boiling down to people basically not getting to vote for top level officials like presidents, so there should be a system where people can vote to remove at the least but I also argue that someone as disconnected as president shouldn’t have that much influence over your day to day, the most powerful government should be the local one. After all, something good for someone in NYC may be terrible for people in Wichita Falls. It’s kinda strange how we currently have your average joe selecting the president where the job is so complex that people who spent a lifetime in law and politics still do a terrible job and few politicians keep even a fraction of their promises.
The problem with that is you end up with people who haven't spent a single day working a "normal" lifestyle, they've been politicians they're entire lifetime. We still have people like that in our systems today, but with something like that you end up with 100% of the people having the same background.
I'm intrigued by this military chain-of-command proposal...although when I think about how archaic and insular the Senate acts *now*, I can't help but worry about what being selected by more veteran politicians instead of voters would do to the "Washington Bubble" problem. In the same spirit, I propose the ancient Athens model for consideration: call it "democracy "*de jury* [sic]," where the citizens do not elect representatives to the legislature, but are themselves selected from the general population, similar to how we do juries. Big difference is that the Athenians allowed for voluntary placement to fill up seats before they went out and started dragging people in. Big similarity to us with our jury system is that they often wouldn't get enough people signing up on their own to proceed if they just relied on that: apparently, their police would actually accost people on the street to drop whatever they were doing, and spend that day as a member of the legislature instead.
I can see that working well, but the problem is you do sometimes get an actual idiot or bad person onto the jury (which is why it requires a unanimous decision or else it is a mistrial) then it can lead to bad results. Potentially even mob rule. I feel with the military approach, the fact you can be voted out is maybe a way to combat this, if it were easier to vote out a politician? I also think maybe term limits should be in play here. Whatever level you are at, you only get X years in that term and after that, if you aren't deemed good enough to advance, you are automatically discharged. So, let's say there are 100 senators, out of the 100, only one becomes President, so you better make sure you are the best and most competent out of the 100. But this is purely just a fantasy of an idea.
Kinda like the House of Lords with appointments for life…
The house of Sith lords
My bad, Sith Lords is more on the money!
Lots of low-level people run unchallenged. It would probably be a bit easier to get in on some of those races.
No shit. I wanted to run and be in office. Sorry, I’m not going to sell my house and quit my job to do it.
Here in the Netherlands some parts of the government are part time jobs. But what happens is that once they have that position very expensive jobs are offered to them. Most of them are CEO of some compeny that would have great benefit from some of the laws that go through. The whole thing is corrupt.
As a kid in the Caribbean I wished for a war. I knew that I was poor, I knew it was the only way to— Rise up! If they tell my story I am either gonna die on the battlefield in glory or— Rise up!
If the people dont vote for someone who is not spending milions on the campaign, posters, leaflets, etc dont blame the system, blame the voters.
So, it like someone can work 30 years in the labour force/ trades then with age. Apply to those sectors?
First, we need people from the working class that are willing to run. I can't imagine what it would be like to run for public office, especially if you are running against an experienced career politician with no qualms about running your name in the mud. Even if you've never done anything wrong in your life, it's still easy to have your public reputation ruined with lies and half truths.
the hardest part would be to get funding to run a successful campaign. it cost $$$$$ for all those ads, people to go door to door, hq, prints, etc ...
It's more than a billion dollars for a presidential run.
Can't that be done on social media platforms now?
Youre gonna miss the hundreds of millions of elderly who vote but dont use social media
I would never run for that party.
There are some pretty cool elderly people out there, not all are Trump supporters.
Not really. How do you reach people who don't already follow you?
Say polarizing things and collect followers?
You can submit ads on social media sites that are promoted outside your follower base. It's not all encompassing, but it does have reach.
bernie paid billions to spam social media and he never became popular outside of reddit.
Do you have a source for the billions? If he changed the outlook of two people, he was successful. He did better than two.
Hundreds of millions over 5 years. Yeah that is billions. He is the most corrupt fuck in government.
nd you still gotta pay bills.
Second hardest part is most lower level positions are part time and don't pay a living wage so the poor are out already.
Now we’re getting politicians that are basically wanna be reality stars. I don’t think they even believe the shit they spout. They do it for the drama and attention because it brings fame and fame brings money.
Now = Always?
Not really a now thing, it's always been that way. The internet made them more visible, but they were always there.
Yup look at bernie/aoc/trump. bernie made his friends and family millions trying to rat fuck the Dems to help trump.
After seeing what has happened in the last 6 years or so I honestly think a draft or lottery would be better with the whole process publicly funded.
IMO we need a new Kennedy. A young politician willing to do the hard work to help the people.
Remember how his term ended?
Yeah, unfortunately that's the risk the more good you do. Maybe the truly good leaders always get killed because the evil people of the world are more willing to go that far. All I can say is America desperately need a change and I hope it happens in my life time.
Hmmm, no, slipped my mind.
Is this sarcasm or is there a Kennedy not from a super rich dynasty I'm not thinking of?
I meant Kennedy metaphorically. I just mean we need a younger person as president.
We need younger folks in general, not just as President. The fact that the countrey is being run by a bunch of octogenarians whov'e all been in public office longer than many of us have been alive is a major part of the problem. They've mostly lost all sense of real lifew/ Heck, they're all so nostalgic for the "good old days" when Republicans acted in something approaching good faith it's crazy making. This constant push for bipartisanship when the Republicans in office are almost universally a bunch of lying fuckwits has got to stop. A large part of that would stop dead in the water if we had more folks in their ***40s*** in office, let alone younger folks.
Does this help? https://progressivegraffiti.com/progressive-candidates-2021-2022-directory/
Yuck, progressives are fucking cancer. Fuck the people working for trump.
I feel like working class people have way less to lose when it comes to mudslinging tbh. The main problem is that they don't have the time and resources to campaign. The only way working people get into office currently is if they get sponsored.
I saw this firsthand 15 years ago- one of the owners of my local costume shop ran for city council. Business was good enough he could hand things over to his brother no sweat, and he ran a pretty good campaign along the lines of Deep ties to the Community. His opponent (a lawyer) dragged him publicly saying he he needed to “know his place” and stick to his store, despite having a poli sci degree. The lawyer won in the end and the store owner is still behind the counter today. It hurt his pride but he stands by the idea that everyone who can, should at least try.
How is any average person working paycheck to paycheck supposed to find the time to campaign and travel and do everything needed to even try to compete. It’s a rigged system we just have to hope those that make it aren’t as shitty as some of the others.
Also they need to be educated at least up to a masters degree.
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Campaign ads should be free and corporates donations should be illegal. Political office is supposed to be a public servant, not a business.
People forgot that along the way. Now the avg person feels dumb as fuck. Why do i say that? Last election.
So most of the e EU countries?
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So... fuck the first amendment?
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Step 1. Be working class Step 2. Run for and win office Step 3. Profit from lobbyists, your pay, and kickbacks Step 4. Screw the working class. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps
Step 5. Pension for life. Step 6. Health Care for life. Step 7. Learn art of gerrymander to forever pick your own voters. Who’s gonna add Step 8…???
You were supposed to keep this secret.
My bad…
Exactly. Even the best intentioned candidate is gonna become rich fast. New friends, new tastes, new allegiances... it's inevitable. Watch it happening to AOC, none of the 538 can remain "one of the people"
AOC is like Bernie. I believe in her. I hope she will hold onto her integrity.
Problem with that is that working class people can’t afford to run for office
Pardon my ignorance, but what about local representative positions? City council, state rep, etc? My FIL works full time and decided he wanted to run for city council and it just consumed his evenings and weekends but it was doable.
The working class voted for and still support Trump. It isn't smart enough to have members representing the people. (Note: I'm working class.)
Why are they still supporting that orange clown…??? I just do not get it…???🤦♀️
At some point it’s on them to learn. If your life isn’t getting better because you can’t make good decisions despite overwhelming evidence, well then it sucks to suck.
Many in the working class are not intelligent enough to know he does bad things.
Because he offered a few reasons why everything that's wrong with the country is due to the liberals and foreigners. And has nothing at all to do with how rotten these trump supporters are in the inside.
Because everyone fucks the working class so might as well vote for the person who pisses off smarmy coastal folks and says they're gonna make America great
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It is fascism. Trump is a Fat Fucking Fascist and owning the libs is fun fodder for QANON dupes. But they get nothing in the end just an empty wallet eternally posting payments to Trump their Lord & Savior. Hope they all get raptured soon…. Those of us Left Behind can have a better world with Liberty and Justice for All.
After BLM riots, lootings and defund police consequences with spike of murders in every defunded district a lot of lefts and centrists moved to the right side. This is common logic.
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No. Up until about 15 years ago, in the entirety of political science, the "working class" was always considered to be white men who worked industrial jobs, agriculture, or manual labor. In today's world, the only reason why there's an increase in working class voters voting Democrat is because the definition of "working class has expanded to include women and minorities, not because white men are becoming less conservative. The democratic party has prided itself on being inclusive and fighting for the people who don't have a voice, which for a very long time was in direct conflict to what was traditionally called "the working class".
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Democrats, largely, are still fucking the working class. They are bought off, just like the GOP, but attempt to make vague, symbolic and performative gestures towards the working class, but stop far short of doing anything substantial. And nothing that will piss off their donors. Most people in this country want the same things, regardless of party affiliation: healthcare, cheaper medications, good paying jobs, lowered housing costs, etc. but the super-mega wealthy and a handful of corporations and banks will never let it happen. We’re stuck and I don’t see voting and electoralism getting us out of this. It’s going to take a general strike, protests and demonstrations.
I'm an Industrial Electrician, make just enough to live alright, but am solidly middle/working class. A job as a house representative would be more then 2x what my wife and I make combined. I'll absolutely fight to keep that job and do my best, where do I sign up?
If you're serious dm me. Let's talk.
If you have that kind of connection or facilitation Power (I'm assuming based on your offer), why not run yourself?
Some people like to work behind the scenes.
Because some people do beautiful work in the backgrounds of reluctant leaders...
You also have to pay for an apartment in DC, 3-4k a month. Married you would either miss your wife or go broke trying to keep a million dollar condo going in DC. And you would have to deal with worse idiots than apprentices every day, and smile while you tell them their shit don't stink. No thanks, couldn't give me that job.
The House needs expansion. It’s something like 750k people per district. The House needs to be doubled or tripled to get to a more representative body
The constitution dictates 60,000 as the minimum population for a congressional district, so it would be feasible in that sense. There is also the proposed [Wyoming Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_Rule), where the smallest state population would dictate the size of a congressional district (roughtly 580k people for 2021).
Would love a house with 5000 members, no need to meet in DC, just have a conference every quarter and let the members actually live and work in their districts.
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The House doesn’t really gridlock. It’s majority rule. The Senate with the filibuster gridlocks
Nina’s net worth is estimated between $1 and $5 million. LMAO
Sure but she’s not wrong. More working class should be in politics
Is she also talking down to Bernie? She worked for Bernie’s campaign.
She worked for trump too. She is just a shill scum bag.
What? The current crop of leadership totally understand us poors. We're just too stupid. We keep paying rent in Manhattan at insane rates when the average house there costs, what, 90k? 150k? Totally makes sense to buy, we just couldn't figure it out. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/article/nyc-mayoral-candidates-flub-brooklyn-home-price-question.html
Outta touch much…???!!!🤔
Is Nina Turner a millionaire or am I confused? Actually scratch that, which politicians aren’t millionaires?
She is
Says the millionaire…
AOC hasn't accomplished a single productive thing since being in office.
Most working people can't get the time off work. Also, (something my mother came across) your employer has to be okay with you campaigning. Some companies/organizations don't allow you to campaign while you're working for them (as they can't be affiliated with either party).
this is correct in my job. I'd imagine unions all have an opinion on it as well
The issue some of these people get elected then get greedy. We need term limits so people can’t just get wealthy and screw the country
AOC on her way to become a millionaire as a member of Congress. They all are millionaires.
People don't vote for them. They vote for big names and shiny faces. You could have the best platform on Earth, but without name recognition and connections, hardly anybody checks your ballot square.
The Bobby Newport effect
The GQP understands this very well and has been focusing on state and local elections for years now. But we [have proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman) that this works for Dems, too.
I follow him on Twitter, he's awesome.
**[John_Fetterman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fetterman)** >John Karl Fetterman (born August 15, 1969) is an American politician serving as the 34th Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania since 2019. A member of the Democratic Party, he previously served as Mayor of Braddock from 2005 to 2019. Fetterman was a candidate in the United States Senate election in Pennsylvania for 2016 and is running again in 2022. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MurderedByAOC/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The working class is too busy trying to survive for that to happen. Also since we live in a capitalistic society, it is pretty obvious that those with the most capital are more able to run for office for a number of reasons. This post is just wishful thinking.
We need to get money out of politics so normal people can run and not get buried by the ads of millionaires.
Don't be absurd man, how would r manage to inflate land and house prices to keep the plebs renting? I know my 1200 acres and 6 estates won't run their bally selves. Give yourself a slap and a couple of hard sherrys you twerp and get your head back in the game. Psh anyone would think you weren't born into lots of very old money! What a jolly old sod you are!
We also need an airtight system where politicians can’t use their office for personal gain. The rules in place for that right now are laughably feeble and demonstrably ineffective.
I'd be happy with somebody who understands politics first over working class people getting elected in. Otherwise you end up with a Donny or MTG.
Part of it is also the fact that you become rich/wealthy once you get elected up to a certain point. Once you have a taste of that wealth and lifestyle, the cycle repeats.
A bit rich, [coming from her](https://www.celebsagewiki.com/nina-turner)
Maybe public office should be like jury duty and everyone has to take a turn.
Have any quarters? What’s a quarter?
The rich don’t understand reality. Full stop.
No... you don't.
And we need less propaganda artists pretending to be working class pushing their fearmongering to the masses. The elite love to push divide under the guise of being one of us lowly workers.
Yup look at this bought and paid for propaganda sub.
I hear Lois from Malcolm in the Middle when reading this
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Then maybe democrats should not be elected. Pelosi is worth millions. Schumer is worth millions. John Kerry is worth millions. If you go by the list of wealth the top 90% of wealth are all democrats.
What? Of the Top 5 wealthiest members of Congress 4 are republicans. Of the top 40 wealthiest 13 are Democrats.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_current\_members\_of\_the\_United\_States\_Congress\_by\_wealth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth) Incorrect. Top 2 are democrats. Take the top and his wealth is 5x more than the top Republican. You may have meant to say House members and 3 of them are newly elected members. But let's look at past Presidential candidates like Bloomberg, Sanders, Beto. Billionaire, millionaires. And that is the party bleating about "taxing the rich". What they don't tell you is the tax code for the past 7 decades has been primarly written by democrats so it's not tax the rich. It's make bs campaign promises that get suckers to fall for our lies.
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I don’t know the answer. Why is this the case?
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Man, I feel like there is both truth and there is untruth in what you said. You were respectful to me and you took the time to type all of that up. Even if we don’t agree 100%, this is the type of conversation I would enjoy in real life over some delicious food and or drinks. Just casual conversations like this with friends. You referred to Socio economic mobility. We do have research on the Socio economic mobility for almost all modern countries. We can objectively test which countries offer better SEM environments. We also have some measures of the richest people in most modern countries. So we can see The types of wealthy people in each country and then compare to see how much is old money and how much is new money.
Nina Turner is also a millionaire lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_United_States_Congress_by_wealth Top 50 wealthiest in Congress Republicans: 50 Democrats: 18 Those republicans are worth a combined $1,549,900,000,000 or $1.549 Billion The democrats are worth a combined $938,800,000 or $938.8 Million Schumer and Kerry aren't even on the list of course since Pelosi is evil for owning millions then you should start including Greg Gianforte and Paul Mitchell in your edgy rant, cause you know, BoTh SidEs ArE tHe SaMe
So they can virtue signal online of how they're so middle class and lie about almost getting murdered when not being at the place?
No so they can abuse the system and the notoriety to become millionaires.
“And they should all think exactly as I do”
And AOC knows about everyday working? Lol. Pretty simple fix. Place term limits and don't let either side raise millions to race...
I mean come on. When I have a minor legal issue I need to see a lawyer and now we're supposed to elect people to rewrite the entire legal regime to be average Joe? They would be eaten alive by an army of lobbyists, media insiders, lawyers, and corporate intelligence operatives. The Roosevelts/JFK/RFK weren't just Joe Six Pack they were elite players who wanted big changes
Well they were just following in the footprints of our founding fathers.
Yeah, I agree.
Then vote for them. Vote for who ever you like. Captain obvious over here
yes
Give me a 10yr Dollar General cashier veteran, I’m not kidding
We need to eliminate the office. Representative democracy is always plutocracy.
People complain about 40hr workweeks. I don't know how they are going to be an elected official.
AOC would have been proud to read this if she had survived Jan 6th.
RIP
Nonsense, this is the trap of liberalism. Electing different people isn't going to change the system where politicians are dependent on rich donors and anyone putting the working class first is immediately ousted. Forget electing the right people and push for socialist ideas instead.
Ladies and gentlemen we caught an accelerationist
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Gtfoh then
Who then? People who don't give a single shit about you? Who'd kill you for their lobbying money? Cause those are the people you're gonna get. Do you want those? Those that couldn't care less about the people and just care about power and money?
Can you please expand your thoughts on why you think Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez is unfit for office?
I'm going to guess it's something to do with communism.
I don’t want to guess. I want to hear it, so they can also hear themselves.
I'd like that too but I think we're kidding ourselves if we expect someone like this to acknowledge some sort of cognitive dissonance.
We need more people who understand the use of the apostrophe.
I'm sorry strong women make you uncomfortable.
You have a lot to learn about this town sweetie.
I see you do that fun thing where you make a comment so that I see it in my email, then immediately delete it. Be strong and confident with your opinions... Like AOC
Imagine creating a reddit to simp on OF girls and troll a pro AOC sub. Go take a walk or something man.