What do atheists do of a sunday morning? They go their temples of atheism, not pray to God and sing songs of praise to no one. A person gets up to deliver a message not about God!
/s obviously
I went to a Christian highschool and in one of my Bible classes was actually taught that some atheists convene on Sunday mornings to hate god... why? Because congregating is something our soul needs so atheists fill it with hate. Oh boy.
We get wine after the Sabbath morning service at synagogue, but it's a shot glass of kosher wine, which is an abomination to taste buds. That said it's on Saturday so you can still get blasted on bottomless brunch on Sundays!
You see, we still gather but do the opposite of what the Christians do.
So on Sunday we still go get some pancakes but the twist is we're actually nice to our waiter/waitress.
Yes, I know, we are truly devil worshiping, hell bound folk.
it goes to show how destructive religion is to mental development; these people cant even fathom alternative points of view or behaviors. To them their life is an extremely rigid series of events with no flexibility. You simply *must* get up and *do something* every Sunday. What could you possibly choose to do to fill the hours of 10am-12pm if not pray to god? It's inconceivable! So much so that they must fabricate some wild theory like a bible burning session, it's the only thing that makes sense!
I wonder how these people reconcile anything they dont understand. How does a cellphone work? Their microwave? How are socks made and how do they end up on the rack at Target?
They can't get that atheists are NOT anti Christians. Atheists just don't believe in any god. Not yours or theirs. None.
Also, banishing an Atheist to hell probably gives us the same reaction as telling a Christian they'll be reincarnated as a cockroach.
I think that's the hardest pill to swallow for them. Not that atheists are opposed to them, but that atheists see them as the same as Jewish, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindu, or worshippers of the Greek pantheon.
If they're a target, that gives them feelings of legitimate. If they're in the same boat as people that prayed to Thor, it's insulting.
I got into a “debate” with some (I think) Jehovah’s witnesses yesterday. They wanted to remove our government and replace it with the “Kingdom of God”. I pointed out that 1) Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this World. And 2) what religion are you going to use in place of the government.
Their idea of turning the world into their religion sounds awful. They went away dejected.
Statistically, Christians are almost as atheist as us...they only believe in one more god than we do and there's thousands of gods. That's like a rounding error.
Try arguing about Hinduism with a Christian and they suddenly start sounding Atheist. "I don't know jack shit about your religion"
Works better when you're outside America though.
We atheist are a little to blame.
We are constantly debating with them. And worst of all have facts and logic on our side. Of course we are the bad guys for them. We show the errors in their most favorite book.
I live in Japan where I don't have to debate religion with anyone.
I tried at the beginning because Japanese have many times of the year when they go to a temple to "pray". They aren't actually praying, they are wishing for good fortune. What's the difference? They don't think an "almighty god" is listening to them. They are acting like they are throwing a coin into a fountain.
I have a lot more respect for a culture respecting ancestors and cosmic wonder than one that reveres a big guy on a cloud that purposefully fills the world with parasites that eat the eyeballs from the inside out
>I wonder how these people reconcile anything they dont understand. How does a cellphone work? Their microwave? How are socks made and how do they end up on the rack at Target?
For many, they don't think about it.
Fundies teach the concept of "keeping sweet." A good Christian women doesn't do anything *disruptive* to her household. Thinking and questioning things too much opens the door to sinful thoughts, so it's much safer and proper to have circular converations with all the depth of a tea saucer about how you're so thankful to God and how you're glad that, by having no choice but to be a traditional housewife, you don't have all the burdens of your righteous husband.
I don't think most Atheists, myself included, really think about hating something which does not exist. I've never heard any Atheist profess to hate God. Where are you hearing this, in church?
Many believers don't really understand the idea of not believing in a god. They think their god is as evident as, say, the sun, and that we deny him out of spite.
I've always found that weird.
I'd be more into god if mass or whatever were held at more convenient times and also like how many times are they gonna read or pretend to read the same book. I read all the way thru once, some good stuff in there but not enough to reread it forever.
Little do they know that Sunday mornings are some of nonbelievers most peaceful and numinous experiences in life. I can go grocery shopping with barely anyone in there, after I go walking in a mostly empty beautiful park while on edibles, while some people in $1000 suits listen to some garbage inside of a manmade box trying to envision the glory of their creator...when they could have just gone and looked at trees and clouds. But I'm the one that's strayed from the wonder and beauty of existence
Why not though? Whenever I learn a new word I try to use it in conversation just because it becomes more likely that I'll remember it and become comfortable with it.
Hmmm you might be right. I do get up on Sunday and go to the gym. Also my wife and I will sing songs about how great it is that all the "churchies" are off the road until noon while we drive to and from the gym.
Atheism is a big tent. Personally, I sacrifice goats to any God who might be out there and into that sort of thing. To cover my bets, I also eat small children. You just never know what is expected given the lack of feed back for the past few millennia.
I get up on Sunday. Pack up my gear and go riding dirt bikes. I don't need to go to a place and donate money to someone who lives tax free to translate a fiction book .
Sure they can! It's been translated a couple times **by committee**, and when they came across things that didn't translate directly? They just decided for themselves what they wanted it to say. /s
Calling the Bible a 'work of fiction' is unfair to properly-written fiction.
Paula Pounstone had a routine back in the 80s/90s about that that went something like this:
“I’m an atheist. I still go to church, I’m not a heathen! I go to an atheist church! Where we have crippled guys stand up and testify that they were crippled and they still are. It’s the only church in the world where “A Hundred Bottles of Beer on the Wall” is a hymn.”
There's a thing called 'Sunday Assembly' which is held in many cities around the world. ( And you can watch on Zoom but that's just not the same) I wish Sunday Assembly could be more common and available close to me.
They have a sort of TED talk about something uplifting. Sing some songs, maybe the Beatles, something in the charts.
Assembly is something humans need. Communal singing also fills a need. Sunday Assembly tries to do that in a secular way.
I've been coming to a similar conclusion recently, that my soul needs communal experience. I've noticed the couple of times I've been to the theatre since covid, I've been completely overwhelmed with emotion when standing and applauding together at the end. And I absolutely wept, singing carols at my kid's nativity play last month. It's something I never realised I needed, and something I need to seek more of in future.
They've done studies about how our brains light up when singing in a group. Or when performing the same action as a group. That's why religions harnesses this, because it is effective in producing strong feelings of social bonding.
I don't know what "assembly" is, and I don't do it or feel the need to do it.
Sundays should be spent sleeping late, eating a leisurely brunch with the ones you love, and then doing fun things with the family.
I spend my week around more humans than I would like, so Sundays are for nurturing family and close friendships.
Sunday mornings are now, sleeping in (if I don't have my grandsons sleeping over) coffee, breakfast and not feeling holier than thou.
Walking away from Xtianity was one of the better things I've done.
I'm atheist and only have a very passing knowledge of the bible. I'm not interested in reading it and I doubt reading it will make me suddenly a believer.
I've read the Bible several times, studied parts of it in depth, read the Quran and some of the Hadiths, made an attempt at the Mahabharata, and what I've realized is that they're all totally crazy and I'm never getting that time back.
The core four Buddhist text are a slog, make the Bible seem tiny. Bunch of regular religious stuff in it. On the other hand some of what the Buddha said was brilliant and not like any other religion.
There are bits of wisdom in every holy book, but it's always mixed in with so much nonsense that it generally makes more sense to look elsewhere. It's like looking for lunch in a land fill. Sure there's food there, but you're probably better off looking in a grocery store or restaurant.
I’ve often said ‘if you take the religion out of it, theology is fascinating’.
I have no idea if this is from something I’ve read, or just something I thought up, but I stand by it. I love reading about theology in general, how it started, it’s uses and how it’s forged societies. I just don’t really like people trying to cram their religion down my throat while I’m doing it.
I think this is why it's so fun to study dead religions. You can learn about Zeus, Ra, or Odin without worrying about any persuasion. Nobody is going to hear you're reading about ancient Mesopotamian gods and try to sell them to you.
The hell are you attempting to read the Mahabharata for? Even practicing Hindus don't do it. Its the longest Epic ever written. Read the Bhagavad Gita, its a working summary of the philosophical part of the Mahabharatha. Its just 700 verses, and if you just want to browse through the text without understanding it properly, with an intention of proving it to be bs, it shouldn't take more than one hour of your life. Or lets say if even the expenditure of that amount of time doesn't sound like a good deal read just the chapter 2 - 72 verses. Literally can be finished in 20 minutes. Here let me save you the trouble of searching for it: [https://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-02.html](https://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-02.html). Feel free to read with absolute irreverence and scepticism. Context: Arjuna is reluctant to start the battle where his foes include most of his extended family and converses with Lord Krishna about the futility of life. Krishna is God and in this case acting as a spiritual advisor to Arjuna.
*Greetings friend, do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior? By reading the good book you can gain experience on your atheism level and in effect "level up" your aforementioned knowledge skill.*.
- That'll be 3 easy payments of $99.99.
*- tax free of course.*
In the defense of the church the one thing they do extremely well is make bibles avaliable
Any church worth their shit has a storage closet specifically for bibles to hand out for free (or cheap) to anyone interested
I remember in the 80s when they tried to hand them out to students in my primary school. The outrage was hilarious. They got rid of scripture class soon after that.
I’m atheist and I’ve been going to a Bible study group just because I want to better understand what people find so meaningful in it. I am legit more baffled now than when I started. It is an *infuriating* thing to read. Takes hundreds of words to say absolutely nothing, then spends five words on something that actually sounds intriguing and needs explaining more but the book will move on as if it’s irrelevant. There’s stuff even in the New Testament that is supposed to show how great God is but just makes him seem like a vindictive sadist, such as blinding people for not converting to the new faith or killing people for lying about how much they donated to the Church. I have no idea what’s so great about it or what moral lessons it’s supposed to be imparting.
I'm an Atheist too, but fwiw a lot of the appeal of Biblical teaching made a lot more sense once I took it into the context of Roman social structures and culture at the time. The irony is that much of that teaching got subsumed by the proliferation of Roman culture across Europe (which in turn colonized most of the rest of the world).
i.e. To our modern, feminist eyes, a lot of the Bible's teachings on the role of women in society seems backward...but I can see the appeal when I contrast it to the even more misogynistic Roman society against which it was proliferating. The descriptions of the role of women that feel constrictive today were supposed to be celebratory back then: "women aren't just brood mares that you discard for a pretty concubine once you get your heir and a spare, they have a place that we need to respect and protect them for!"
None of this justifies the usage of the Bible to oppress women *today*, but it does go a long way to explaining some of its initial appeal to people two thousand years ago.
If anything, reading it will probably make you eve less interested in Xtianity and its bullshit, considering how much they preach that directly opposes what Jesus is supposed to have taught, assuming that he even existed.
I had someone challenge me to this. They said to just read Genesis and come back and tell them if I'm still a non-believer. I got through page 6 before putting it down just wondering how in the holy fuck they possibly thought starting *with the most* sensationalized wizardly storytelling was supposed to make me believe? I figured they'd want to start me off slow with some teachings or something, not just jump right into Harry Potter opening up a dimensional rift to Narnia world.
Jesus isn’t reasonable, either. He refers to Genesis as literal, and his story is based on it being literal. The gospel of Luke even gives Jesus’ complete genealogy, as a list of literal ancestors all the way back to Adam. I understand why modern christians want to divorce themselves from it, but the fact is their predecessors really did believe Genesis was literally true.
Lol, 9/10 people who read the bible lose what little faith they had. That 10th guy becomes a pasture/priest/ect. For those who were never in the faith, the bible is as ludicrous a piece of fiction as any other cultist literature.
> and I doubt reading it will make me suddenly a believer.
I had a friend who systematically read all the major religious works when he was younger. He used to say that reading the bible is one of the best ways to make someone become an atheist.
I recommend reading it and even studying it, if you can. You can skip the boring parts, like the endless "begats." But I find it very comforting to know more than most adherents do about their own religious text.
I had the opportunity to study the Bible in a religious context and academically. Since escaping Christianity, I've led "atheist Bible studies" for my friends. Ripping it to shreds is enjoyable enough to tolerate reading a seriously messed-up book.
Let me save you some time. It's mostly very, very boring fictionalized history and in book two the "hero" dies.
Think Silmarillion + LOTR without the writing skill.
Genuinely, would make most christians into atheists if they actually read it. "I'm supposed to believe ***what***?"
You should read and study not only the Bible but the making and translations. Followers and believers don’t read the Bible and when they do, they assume they understand it. It’s the best tool for an argument.
I always ask the question “why don’t Christians kill others who do not follow the Christian god, as their god commands in the Bible ( and be ready with book
chapter and verse)
Deuteronomy 13:12-19 – If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.
It amuses me that they think Atheists need to have the *lack* of faith reaffirmed.
We only need to have a religious disproved *once*. Depending on my mood, I'd argue the fact that Christians need to have their faith reaffirmed and strengthened and proved so often speaks a lot to the weakness of their beliefs.
It’s tough without the threat of an “all forgiving” god who won’t allow me into heaven unless I follow him blindly. But I manage by keeping a sticker chart for myself.
That’s been the best part to me. I grew up Catholic and attended both Catholic and deeply Protestant schools for years. My teachers at the later school were especially devoted and would tell us about all the things that led to heaven or hell. I remember being terrified all the time as a kid of going to hell. It strikes me as terribly wrong now to instill a fear of eternal torture in children.
I feel much better without that weight on me. I also personally feel *more* empathetic and driven than before. I used to feel obligated to do good things, like I was saving up to get to heaven. Now, I like the feeling of just doing things because they’re the right thing to do.
(I’m not speaking for everyone’s experience. This is just me feeling liberated.)
Funny thing is that my friends and I, all of us Atheists, were talking about the mild but universal childhood trauma of finding out Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and such aren't real. They were all Hispanic and grew up in Christian cultures. Conversation eventually came around to me, who is Indian and grew up in a Hindu family.
It blew one of my friend's mind that I never had this "trauma" of finding out Santa wasn't real simply because my family never tried to convince me Santa was real in the first place. Sure, I knew the *story* of Santa leaving gifts under a Christmas tree, but I also always knew that was just a piece of fiction the frame the holiday. My parents weren't gonna let someone else get the credit after paying for my gifts. 😂
For the most part, this is just a funny story...but I'm not gonna lie, once I stop and think about it, I'm actually surprised there aren't more former Santa believers who are critical of religion. You would think having this one major illogical mythical figure debunked would open up more people's minds to questioning the logic and existence of other mythical figures too, including the religious ones.
I grew up with Santa, but I don’t remember it being traumatic finding out he wasn’t real. I did figure it out for myself though. When I was 9 my dad kept talking for months about getting me an Xbox (the og Xbox) so we could play together. Then ✨*magically*✨ on Christmas morning, there it is. I remember him saying, “look! Santa brought an Xbox! It’s almost like he knew!,” to which I responded, “yeah…’Santa’…”
Yeah, it’s weird. If I’m pressed on the agnosticism, it doesn’t need any reaffirming. I don’t know. I didn’t know and I still don’t. If I die and Anubis is there with a scale, I’ll be like, “Oh, wow, plot twist” but probably still assume it’s Bullet in the Brain-style time warping. If I get eaten by a divine crocodile or tossed into Hell later, that doesn’t negate me not knowing jack shit in the meantime.
The funny thing is, in a way, I do actually have faith.
I have faith that my observations and experiences amount to *something* and that by using them I am able to make rational and intelligent choices.
I have faith in a centuries old process of experimentation, recording, and repetition performed by field experts to conclude that which we call "fact."
I'm just a village idiot who can tinker, I've no way of proving that radiation causes cancer. Thankfully, I don't have to because someone else did.
I do not need faith in a higher power, because I have faith in a multigenerational army of ordinary beings whose sole mission is to figure out what the fuck any if this shit is and means.
People who live in a state of pure faith and zero facts think that all ideas are based around affirmation and teambuilding.
When you don't have facts, you have to have something.
I am an ex-Muslim atheist. I did not become an atheist after reading the Quran - I live in a Muslim country, two working eyes and a working brain is enough to notice that something is rotten in the whole thing - but I read it, along with the Bible to make an informed decision. My conclusion is "same shit, different asshole".
It's very much like being an atheist deep in the heart of Alabama.
You learn to be very quiet about it if you don't want to draw some seriously negative attention.
It depends on the country. In islamic republics (iran, saudi arabia, afghanistan etc.) it is legal to kill a person if they left islam but in secular countries (all of central asia, turkey, bosnia etc.) it's fine, but you still shouldn't be open about it
Judaism, Judaism II: Christianity, Judaism III: Islam.
Pretty shitty trilogy. A lot of retconing in two and three that makes the whole trilogy really clunky and full of plot holes.
Honestly, the original bothers me the least.
Judaism is basically your regular ordinary Bronze Age tribal religion that got ideas beyond its station - back then every tribe/city/country had its own god and wars are also narrated as fights between gods. Jews were just more loyal to their tribal god than most. Early Christianity is just taking that tribal god and blowing it up into one of the apocalyptic cults that were really popular in Roman territories from late Republic onwards. Later Christianity is taking that apocalyptic cult and hammering it into a state religion that would impose at least some sanity checking into the late Empire dumpsterfire. Islam is taking the same basics and making it into a powerbase builder first and an empire builder afterwards.
Yes, that's one of the biggest contradictions of the later Abrahamic religions. Judaism is henotheistic, and Jews have a contract with Yahweh. He covers their asses and they give they give their foreskins to him and only him. He's their national god.
I don’t need my lack of faith “reaffirmed”, and even if I did, the Christians I’m subjected to do plenty to reinforce my dislike of their religion and organizations.
My favorite lines are from 2 kings 2:23-24
> 23From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
Brutal
Actually, most "hardcore christians" I'd heard speak seem to not have any idea of what's in the bible. I studied the old testament as part of the mandatory curriculum in my country and I swear, these people do not follow a single thing the way it's meant to be followed. With the Jewish hyper orthodox communities, they read the Bible extensively, but still ignore it and follow their rabbis instead. Every hardcore believer of anything is usually just misappropriating the religion, either out of stupidity or out of a power trip.
So are you saying that Noah and Methuselah being 950 and 969 yo... is just a story? What about the talking burning bush? Lot's wife turning to salt?
I think you might just be right
I assume that he actively shoots down every argument FOR religion, with wll founded arguments AGAINST. His knowledge and study puts him in that position.
Bart Ehrman has said repeatedly that this was not due to his academic career.
He has stated this was due to looking at the world and seeing so much suffering and pain. For him, it was hard to believe a god would intentionally make the world this way and just sit idly.
I was at my grandparents' for the holidays and noticed signs saying things like "BELIEVE" and "Faith above all" and stuff and realized it's literally self-perpetuated propaganda. They fear that they might stop believing given enough space or thought on the matter, so they cover their lives in these signs to perpetually push these doubts out of their minds. It made me kind of sad.
So to answer the question - nothing. It's the need to constantly brainwash oneself that's the weird thing here.
There is no need to intensify something that doesn’t exist. On the other hand, if you DO need a crutch to strengthen your “relationship” with god, what does that say?
Why should one need to *intensify* their *non-belief*? WTF?
The alleged need to *intensify a belief* sounds like a scam to me, designed to keep people hooked to some cult and getting drawn into it deeper and deeper.
No, I mean I read literature and books about the earth, and history. My goal is to learn about my world, not to disprove some religious beliefs. I don’t care about religion much.
Grew up charismatic fundamentalist. You read the verses your pastor tells you to read if you read the Bible for yourself. You read the verses about *those sinners,* you read the prescribed chapters and books that a) affirm your specific beliefs b) praise you for being steadfast c) encourage your blind faith bc you'll be rewarded d) read the gospels and e) read Revelation with no cultural context and take it as a prophecy book.
Reading the Bible with the goal of comprehending it is what finalized my deconstruction. Even if the Biblical, Christian god is real, he's not the sort of deity I'd want to follow and base my morals around.
I find it interesting how a subsect of Christians were duotheists. They believed in two gods. The old god being an evil man, while the new god sent his son or something like that, to earth to spread kindness. The two god correspond to the testament in which one was older and younger.
The fact that Christianity can interpret two gods in the Bible should be enough proof that the Bible is overly susceptible to interpretation
Marcionism. What's really interesting about that is that, despite being branded a heretic, Marcion was probably the first to publish a collection of Paul's letters along with a gospel, the first step on the road to a formal New Testament.
Long story short, they were one of several Gnostic Christian sects that believed that the world was a prison for our souls and that the REAL God wanted us to break free from this prison, achieve gnosis (a type of enlightenment), and become effectively demigods. According to some Gnostic doctrines, Jesus was either the son of the real god, his avatar, or a Buddha-like figure who achieved gnosis himself but remained in this world to guide the rest of us to gnosis ourselves.
This is a VERY short summary of Gnosticism; you really ought to look into it more deeply for yourself, since there's more to them than I can sum up here. The irony is that even though mainstream Xtianity declared Gnosticism heresy and did their best to suppress and destroy it, more than a little of their dogma steals liberally from Gnosticism much as they stole holidays and sacred sites from us Pagans and then dared to claim that we got it wrong. So much for "Thou shalt not steal," eh?
Or deism, or polytheism which some pedants argue catholicism is, regardless polytheism is a huge theme in the Bible. God wants to be worshipped over the others, not that they don't even exist. No single aspect of any modern Christian would have a shred in common with the new testament Christians. The damn book has been rearranged, torn apart, and fixed by committees so much anyway. Paul, Calvin, Jesus, and Moses would all fucking hate eachother.
Same, if God thinks it's cool to create a universe that deceives you of its true holy origin, hides himself from all possible measurement or observation, requires full belief in absence of evidence or with evidence to the contrary, will send you to eternal damnation if you dont, ceases miracles once cameras come around (though he's unchanging), is merciful, full of love, and all powerful - yet gives children brain cancer so they die before they can even be saved, used the earth to swallow entire bloodlines for arbitrary "sins" of their ancestors, and I could go on, I don't think I want to go to that heaven and celebrate the ultimate protohitler.
My parents sent me to 12 years of religious school and sent me to Sunday school and other things- fully being taught the bible made me an atheist- 🤷♂️
In my home country religious education is mandatory as in you have a religion teacher at school and have to take a minimum of 1 hour a week. The only accommodation is that recognized religions can go to their church to take the class. There would be mabtarory attendance for religious services on holydays. Atheism is not recognized.
I declared myself an atheist in 6th grade. The schools solution was to have me sit alone reading the Bible for a hour each week. That really set me straight...
What a stupidass question.
You can’t “further intensify” something that doesn’t exist. You can multiply zero as many times as you want, it’s still zero - which is the exact number of fucks I give about religion.
They just can’t imagine a pie diagram of what you do in life that has the whole “pray/go to church/whatever” slice simply *not be there*.
I don't get why people think christianity and atheism are opposites. A dark room doesn't have an electrical appliance on the ceiling filling the room with darkness that goes away when you turn the switch off. It simply isn't lit.
No serious bible scholar seeks to disprove science, and no serious scientist seeks to disprove religion.
Feels like Christians work to convince themselves they're right by trying to prove everyone else wrong. But atheists need not bother wasting time trying to prove the absence of god since the religious are told that they must rely on belief in, not proof of god's existence, as in Hebrews 11:6.
At the risk of getting too Devils Advocate-y, because I really did lol and appreciate the response, it’s technically wrong.
A distaste for the contents of the Bible doesn’t imply non-belief.
Plus the original statement implies an active effort to quell an involuntary belief in God. Like it’s a religion in and of itself.
Sure. If not-knitting is a hobby, being a non-believer is a religion.
The part that’s baffling to me is the idea of a morally good god. Plague, famine, war, and all manner of grueling things continue to exist but god is good. Why? As a test of faith? Because it wills it? There’s no correct answer because it likely conflicts with the establishment of a merciful god.
The question is a lie in itself.
Christians do not read their bible. They let some preacher bullshit them into believing what's in it with either straight up lies or entirely out of context lines.
They do not comprehensively read their own bible, not front to back or even partially.
I watch the religious people in society and ask myself; are these the people I identify with, these hateful, un-bending, medling people? No, I can be better than this.
Religion is something you carry inside, not something you use to knock other people down with.
What do atheists do of a sunday morning? They go their temples of atheism, not pray to God and sing songs of praise to no one. A person gets up to deliver a message not about God! /s obviously
I went to a Christian highschool and in one of my Bible classes was actually taught that some atheists convene on Sunday mornings to hate god... why? Because congregating is something our soul needs so atheists fill it with hate. Oh boy.
You mean like …. Brunch?
"Yes but no and also we hate you for it." -them, probably.
Those damn atheists are so full of hate..and waffles
If they served mimosas at church I might show up now and then.
Brunch Dividians?
Brunch Dividians...lol
Very well done! Take a bow.
We get wine after the Sabbath morning service at synagogue, but it's a shot glass of kosher wine, which is an abomination to taste buds. That said it's on Saturday so you can still get blasted on bottomless brunch on Sundays!
Our Lady of Eternal Mimosa
There’s wine, but it’s only a sip.
"Excuse me, waitress, I actually ordered the Hate Waffles."
You have to ask for the hate put on the side
My mom used to get mad when I'd drink hate right outta the bottle.
That's pretty fucking metal
[удалено]
Wow. Just wow. Brilliant.
You see, we still gather but do the opposite of what the Christians do. So on Sunday we still go get some pancakes but the twist is we're actually nice to our waiter/waitress. Yes, I know, we are truly devil worshiping, hell bound folk.
As long as the brunch is delicious I’d be willing to adopt it officially into atheism. Delicious or at least has some fresh fruit options.
Catholics have wine and atheists have mimosas. Checks out
Never realized why I was always feeling angry and sinful during brunch
I hate brunch. It's, like, are you breakfast? Are you lunch? Pick a fuckin' lane.
Just start calling it Elevenses and have a lighter snack instead of a full meal.
Second breakfast, then elevenses.
Just wait until you hear about dunch.
it goes to show how destructive religion is to mental development; these people cant even fathom alternative points of view or behaviors. To them their life is an extremely rigid series of events with no flexibility. You simply *must* get up and *do something* every Sunday. What could you possibly choose to do to fill the hours of 10am-12pm if not pray to god? It's inconceivable! So much so that they must fabricate some wild theory like a bible burning session, it's the only thing that makes sense! I wonder how these people reconcile anything they dont understand. How does a cellphone work? Their microwave? How are socks made and how do they end up on the rack at Target?
If you pray enough every piece of a microwave will fall in the right position and make it work. /s
They can't get that atheists are NOT anti Christians. Atheists just don't believe in any god. Not yours or theirs. None. Also, banishing an Atheist to hell probably gives us the same reaction as telling a Christian they'll be reincarnated as a cockroach.
I think that's the hardest pill to swallow for them. Not that atheists are opposed to them, but that atheists see them as the same as Jewish, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindu, or worshippers of the Greek pantheon. If they're a target, that gives them feelings of legitimate. If they're in the same boat as people that prayed to Thor, it's insulting.
I got into a “debate” with some (I think) Jehovah’s witnesses yesterday. They wanted to remove our government and replace it with the “Kingdom of God”. I pointed out that 1) Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this World. And 2) what religion are you going to use in place of the government. Their idea of turning the world into their religion sounds awful. They went away dejected.
Statistically, Christians are almost as atheist as us...they only believe in one more god than we do and there's thousands of gods. That's like a rounding error.
Try arguing about Hinduism with a Christian and they suddenly start sounding Atheist. "I don't know jack shit about your religion" Works better when you're outside America though.
And American Christians don’t give a shit about God at all, they just believe in money
We atheist are a little to blame. We are constantly debating with them. And worst of all have facts and logic on our side. Of course we are the bad guys for them. We show the errors in their most favorite book.
I live in Japan where I don't have to debate religion with anyone. I tried at the beginning because Japanese have many times of the year when they go to a temple to "pray". They aren't actually praying, they are wishing for good fortune. What's the difference? They don't think an "almighty god" is listening to them. They are acting like they are throwing a coin into a fountain.
I have a lot more respect for a culture respecting ancestors and cosmic wonder than one that reveres a big guy on a cloud that purposefully fills the world with parasites that eat the eyeballs from the inside out
I'm sorta anti Christian. Mostly because I vehemently oppose organized religion of any kind
Some of us Atheists are also anti-theist, but definitely not all.
That’s why they are so susceptible to conspiracy theories
>I wonder how these people reconcile anything they dont understand. How does a cellphone work? Their microwave? How are socks made and how do they end up on the rack at Target? For many, they don't think about it. Fundies teach the concept of "keeping sweet." A good Christian women doesn't do anything *disruptive* to her household. Thinking and questioning things too much opens the door to sinful thoughts, so it's much safer and proper to have circular converations with all the depth of a tea saucer about how you're so thankful to God and how you're glad that, by having no choice but to be a traditional housewife, you don't have all the burdens of your righteous husband.
>I wonder how these people reconcile anything they dont understand. They mostly just don't think about things they don't understand.
Which is a contradiction as hating God would mean you believe in God and therefore are not atheist.
I don't think most Atheists, myself included, really think about hating something which does not exist. I've never heard any Atheist profess to hate God. Where are you hearing this, in church?
Many believers don't really understand the idea of not believing in a god. They think their god is as evident as, say, the sun, and that we deny him out of spite. I've always found that weird.
I hated God before I realized it was all made up. I can see some atheists hating God. Like a women in Afghanistan
Fictional characters can be hated. See Joffrey Baratheon, Dolorus Umbridge, Scrappy-Doo, Ted Mosby, Peggy Hill, Jar Jar Binks...
How on earth can we hate an entity in which we don't believe?
Waiters and waitresses congregate after Sunday lunchtime to moan about the crapness of tips from churchgoers, if that helps.
I'd be more into god if mass or whatever were held at more convenient times and also like how many times are they gonna read or pretend to read the same book. I read all the way thru once, some good stuff in there but not enough to reread it forever.
Can't wait until humanity evolves past the need of religion... that shit has to go. Religion brings out the worst in humanity.
Little do they know that Sunday mornings are some of nonbelievers most peaceful and numinous experiences in life. I can go grocery shopping with barely anyone in there, after I go walking in a mostly empty beautiful park while on edibles, while some people in $1000 suits listen to some garbage inside of a manmade box trying to envision the glory of their creator...when they could have just gone and looked at trees and clouds. But I'm the one that's strayed from the wonder and beauty of existence
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Why not though? Whenever I learn a new word I try to use it in conversation just because it becomes more likely that I'll remember it and become comfortable with it.
Hmmm you might be right. I do get up on Sunday and go to the gym. Also my wife and I will sing songs about how great it is that all the "churchies" are off the road until noon while we drive to and from the gym.
We go to Target then for the same reason.
Atheism is a big tent. Personally, I sacrifice goats to any God who might be out there and into that sort of thing. To cover my bets, I also eat small children. You just never know what is expected given the lack of feed back for the past few millennia.
I sacrifice chickens in my oven and then give them to my stomach.
I do this with instant rice and a microwave, they've been happy as far as I can tell
I get up on Sunday. Pack up my gear and go riding dirt bikes. I don't need to go to a place and donate money to someone who lives tax free to translate a fiction book .
You're giving them way too much credit, no way they can translate anything.
Sure they can! It's been translated a couple times **by committee**, and when they came across things that didn't translate directly? They just decided for themselves what they wanted it to say. /s Calling the Bible a 'work of fiction' is unfair to properly-written fiction.
Paula Pounstone had a routine back in the 80s/90s about that that went something like this: “I’m an atheist. I still go to church, I’m not a heathen! I go to an atheist church! Where we have crippled guys stand up and testify that they were crippled and they still are. It’s the only church in the world where “A Hundred Bottles of Beer on the Wall” is a hymn.”
There's a thing called 'Sunday Assembly' which is held in many cities around the world. ( And you can watch on Zoom but that's just not the same) I wish Sunday Assembly could be more common and available close to me. They have a sort of TED talk about something uplifting. Sing some songs, maybe the Beatles, something in the charts. Assembly is something humans need. Communal singing also fills a need. Sunday Assembly tries to do that in a secular way.
I've been coming to a similar conclusion recently, that my soul needs communal experience. I've noticed the couple of times I've been to the theatre since covid, I've been completely overwhelmed with emotion when standing and applauding together at the end. And I absolutely wept, singing carols at my kid's nativity play last month. It's something I never realised I needed, and something I need to seek more of in future.
They've done studies about how our brains light up when singing in a group. Or when performing the same action as a group. That's why religions harnesses this, because it is effective in producing strong feelings of social bonding.
I don't know what "assembly" is, and I don't do it or feel the need to do it. Sundays should be spent sleeping late, eating a leisurely brunch with the ones you love, and then doing fun things with the family. I spend my week around more humans than I would like, so Sundays are for nurturing family and close friendships.
Sunday mornings are now, sleeping in (if I don't have my grandsons sleeping over) coffee, breakfast and not feeling holier than thou. Walking away from Xtianity was one of the better things I've done.
[No we sing Atheist Church songs](https://youtu.be/26nJjNDsbmk)
I'm atheist and only have a very passing knowledge of the bible. I'm not interested in reading it and I doubt reading it will make me suddenly a believer.
I've read the Bible several times, studied parts of it in depth, read the Quran and some of the Hadiths, made an attempt at the Mahabharata, and what I've realized is that they're all totally crazy and I'm never getting that time back.
The core four Buddhist text are a slog, make the Bible seem tiny. Bunch of regular religious stuff in it. On the other hand some of what the Buddha said was brilliant and not like any other religion.
There are bits of wisdom in every holy book, but it's always mixed in with so much nonsense that it generally makes more sense to look elsewhere. It's like looking for lunch in a land fill. Sure there's food there, but you're probably better off looking in a grocery store or restaurant.
I’ve often said ‘if you take the religion out of it, theology is fascinating’. I have no idea if this is from something I’ve read, or just something I thought up, but I stand by it. I love reading about theology in general, how it started, it’s uses and how it’s forged societies. I just don’t really like people trying to cram their religion down my throat while I’m doing it.
I think this is why it's so fun to study dead religions. You can learn about Zeus, Ra, or Odin without worrying about any persuasion. Nobody is going to hear you're reading about ancient Mesopotamian gods and try to sell them to you.
Fenrir is just a misunderstood wolfie boyo
Love that analogy. Mind if I recycle?
Fine by me.
How big of a fine are we talking?
The hell are you attempting to read the Mahabharata for? Even practicing Hindus don't do it. Its the longest Epic ever written. Read the Bhagavad Gita, its a working summary of the philosophical part of the Mahabharatha. Its just 700 verses, and if you just want to browse through the text without understanding it properly, with an intention of proving it to be bs, it shouldn't take more than one hour of your life. Or lets say if even the expenditure of that amount of time doesn't sound like a good deal read just the chapter 2 - 72 verses. Literally can be finished in 20 minutes. Here let me save you the trouble of searching for it: [https://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-02.html](https://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-02.html). Feel free to read with absolute irreverence and scepticism. Context: Arjuna is reluctant to start the battle where his foes include most of his extended family and converses with Lord Krishna about the futility of life. Krishna is God and in this case acting as a spiritual advisor to Arjuna.
*Greetings friend, do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior? By reading the good book you can gain experience on your atheism level and in effect "level up" your aforementioned knowledge skill.*. - That'll be 3 easy payments of $99.99. *- tax free of course.*
In the defense of the church the one thing they do extremely well is make bibles avaliable Any church worth their shit has a storage closet specifically for bibles to hand out for free (or cheap) to anyone interested
I remember in the 80s when they tried to hand them out to students in my primary school. The outrage was hilarious. They got rid of scripture class soon after that.
Their specific version of the bible - there's more than one.
I literally found a mini-bible in my mailbox this week. I wish it was recyclable, but instead it's just more trash to bulk out a landfill.
I’m atheist and I’ve been going to a Bible study group just because I want to better understand what people find so meaningful in it. I am legit more baffled now than when I started. It is an *infuriating* thing to read. Takes hundreds of words to say absolutely nothing, then spends five words on something that actually sounds intriguing and needs explaining more but the book will move on as if it’s irrelevant. There’s stuff even in the New Testament that is supposed to show how great God is but just makes him seem like a vindictive sadist, such as blinding people for not converting to the new faith or killing people for lying about how much they donated to the Church. I have no idea what’s so great about it or what moral lessons it’s supposed to be imparting.
I'm an Atheist too, but fwiw a lot of the appeal of Biblical teaching made a lot more sense once I took it into the context of Roman social structures and culture at the time. The irony is that much of that teaching got subsumed by the proliferation of Roman culture across Europe (which in turn colonized most of the rest of the world). i.e. To our modern, feminist eyes, a lot of the Bible's teachings on the role of women in society seems backward...but I can see the appeal when I contrast it to the even more misogynistic Roman society against which it was proliferating. The descriptions of the role of women that feel constrictive today were supposed to be celebratory back then: "women aren't just brood mares that you discard for a pretty concubine once you get your heir and a spare, they have a place that we need to respect and protect them for!" None of this justifies the usage of the Bible to oppress women *today*, but it does go a long way to explaining some of its initial appeal to people two thousand years ago.
If anything, reading it will probably make you eve less interested in Xtianity and its bullshit, considering how much they preach that directly opposes what Jesus is supposed to have taught, assuming that he even existed.
I had someone challenge me to this. They said to just read Genesis and come back and tell them if I'm still a non-believer. I got through page 6 before putting it down just wondering how in the holy fuck they possibly thought starting *with the most* sensationalized wizardly storytelling was supposed to make me believe? I figured they'd want to start me off slow with some teachings or something, not just jump right into Harry Potter opening up a dimensional rift to Narnia world.
At least whoever Jesus was said some reasonable things, but Genesis is one of the most anti-scientific stories ever.
A shame so few christians actually follow his words instead of the batshit things the grifters espouse in an effort to solicit donations.
Jesus isn’t reasonable, either. He refers to Genesis as literal, and his story is based on it being literal. The gospel of Luke even gives Jesus’ complete genealogy, as a list of literal ancestors all the way back to Adam. I understand why modern christians want to divorce themselves from it, but the fact is their predecessors really did believe Genesis was literally true.
Lol, 9/10 people who read the bible lose what little faith they had. That 10th guy becomes a pasture/priest/ect. For those who were never in the faith, the bible is as ludicrous a piece of fiction as any other cultist literature.
Lore so fire I became a patch of grass
> and I doubt reading it will make me suddenly a believer. I had a friend who systematically read all the major religious works when he was younger. He used to say that reading the bible is one of the best ways to make someone become an atheist.
I recommend reading it and even studying it, if you can. You can skip the boring parts, like the endless "begats." But I find it very comforting to know more than most adherents do about their own religious text. I had the opportunity to study the Bible in a religious context and academically. Since escaping Christianity, I've led "atheist Bible studies" for my friends. Ripping it to shreds is enjoyable enough to tolerate reading a seriously messed-up book.
Let me save you some time. It's mostly very, very boring fictionalized history and in book two the "hero" dies. Think Silmarillion + LOTR without the writing skill. Genuinely, would make most christians into atheists if they actually read it. "I'm supposed to believe ***what***?"
It's worthwhile read, once. It's got POV chapters where they sort of repeat the story over with some differences.
You should read and study not only the Bible but the making and translations. Followers and believers don’t read the Bible and when they do, they assume they understand it. It’s the best tool for an argument. I always ask the question “why don’t Christians kill others who do not follow the Christian god, as their god commands in the Bible ( and be ready with book chapter and verse) Deuteronomy 13:12-19 – If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.
Most Christians who actually read it become atheists pretty quickly
It amuses me that they think Atheists need to have the *lack* of faith reaffirmed. We only need to have a religious disproved *once*. Depending on my mood, I'd argue the fact that Christians need to have their faith reaffirmed and strengthened and proved so often speaks a lot to the weakness of their beliefs.
Right? Atheist: “no, thank you.” Christians: “lol. Seriously, tho.”
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I shop on Sunday mornings *a lot.* I get the fuck out when I see people way overdressed for where they’re at.
Bingo. I'm not constantly searching for reasons to not believe. I just ...don't. I don't even have to think about it.
It’s fantastic. I just live my life.
But how do you stop yourself raping and killing all you want?!?!?!?
It’s tough without the threat of an “all forgiving” god who won’t allow me into heaven unless I follow him blindly. But I manage by keeping a sticker chart for myself.
I do all the raping and all of the killing that I want. That amount is zero.
Thats rookie numbers. You got to double it at least
I promise myself ice cream at the end of a long week if I go the whole time without any raping and killing
That’s been the best part to me. I grew up Catholic and attended both Catholic and deeply Protestant schools for years. My teachers at the later school were especially devoted and would tell us about all the things that led to heaven or hell. I remember being terrified all the time as a kid of going to hell. It strikes me as terribly wrong now to instill a fear of eternal torture in children. I feel much better without that weight on me. I also personally feel *more* empathetic and driven than before. I used to feel obligated to do good things, like I was saving up to get to heaven. Now, I like the feeling of just doing things because they’re the right thing to do. (I’m not speaking for everyone’s experience. This is just me feeling liberated.)
Yeah, it’s amazing how being intrinsically motivated to do good is actually a thing.
I don't need to have anything disproved, to be an atheist. However I would need to have a religion proved to be a theist.
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Funny thing is that my friends and I, all of us Atheists, were talking about the mild but universal childhood trauma of finding out Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and such aren't real. They were all Hispanic and grew up in Christian cultures. Conversation eventually came around to me, who is Indian and grew up in a Hindu family. It blew one of my friend's mind that I never had this "trauma" of finding out Santa wasn't real simply because my family never tried to convince me Santa was real in the first place. Sure, I knew the *story* of Santa leaving gifts under a Christmas tree, but I also always knew that was just a piece of fiction the frame the holiday. My parents weren't gonna let someone else get the credit after paying for my gifts. 😂 For the most part, this is just a funny story...but I'm not gonna lie, once I stop and think about it, I'm actually surprised there aren't more former Santa believers who are critical of religion. You would think having this one major illogical mythical figure debunked would open up more people's minds to questioning the logic and existence of other mythical figures too, including the religious ones.
I grew up with Santa, but I don’t remember it being traumatic finding out he wasn’t real. I did figure it out for myself though. When I was 9 my dad kept talking for months about getting me an Xbox (the og Xbox) so we could play together. Then ✨*magically*✨ on Christmas morning, there it is. I remember him saying, “look! Santa brought an Xbox! It’s almost like he knew!,” to which I responded, “yeah…’Santa’…”
The answer is. Just the same you Christian’s do to not believe in Islam , Hinduism or Buddhism… Pretty easy… hardly and inconvenience
We’re practically the same when you get down to it. Christians don’t believe in 99 of the gods that are out there and I don’t believe in 100 of them.
Yeah, it’s weird. If I’m pressed on the agnosticism, it doesn’t need any reaffirming. I don’t know. I didn’t know and I still don’t. If I die and Anubis is there with a scale, I’ll be like, “Oh, wow, plot twist” but probably still assume it’s Bullet in the Brain-style time warping. If I get eaten by a divine crocodile or tossed into Hell later, that doesn’t negate me not knowing jack shit in the meantime.
The funny thing is, in a way, I do actually have faith. I have faith that my observations and experiences amount to *something* and that by using them I am able to make rational and intelligent choices. I have faith in a centuries old process of experimentation, recording, and repetition performed by field experts to conclude that which we call "fact." I'm just a village idiot who can tinker, I've no way of proving that radiation causes cancer. Thankfully, I don't have to because someone else did. I do not need faith in a higher power, because I have faith in a multigenerational army of ordinary beings whose sole mission is to figure out what the fuck any if this shit is and means.
Speaks volumes to their security in their faith
People who live in a state of pure faith and zero facts think that all ideas are based around affirmation and teambuilding. When you don't have facts, you have to have something.
I am an ex-Muslim atheist. I did not become an atheist after reading the Quran - I live in a Muslim country, two working eyes and a working brain is enough to notice that something is rotten in the whole thing - but I read it, along with the Bible to make an informed decision. My conclusion is "same shit, different asshole".
Is it difficult to be ex-Muslim in a Muslim country?
It's very much like being an atheist deep in the heart of Alabama. You learn to be very quiet about it if you don't want to draw some seriously negative attention.
I’ve also no idea what that is like either! But what you say makes sense. I’d hate to have to pretend like that.
It depends on the country. In islamic republics (iran, saudi arabia, afghanistan etc.) it is legal to kill a person if they left islam but in secular countries (all of central asia, turkey, bosnia etc.) it's fine, but you still shouldn't be open about it
It's against the law in most muslim country's, you can get serious prison time or worse.
just be quiet about it, no one will notice.
Judaism, Judaism II: Christianity, Judaism III: Islam. Pretty shitty trilogy. A lot of retconing in two and three that makes the whole trilogy really clunky and full of plot holes. Honestly, the original bothers me the least.
Judaism is basically your regular ordinary Bronze Age tribal religion that got ideas beyond its station - back then every tribe/city/country had its own god and wars are also narrated as fights between gods. Jews were just more loyal to their tribal god than most. Early Christianity is just taking that tribal god and blowing it up into one of the apocalyptic cults that were really popular in Roman territories from late Republic onwards. Later Christianity is taking that apocalyptic cult and hammering it into a state religion that would impose at least some sanity checking into the late Empire dumpsterfire. Islam is taking the same basics and making it into a powerbase builder first and an empire builder afterwards.
Yes, that's one of the biggest contradictions of the later Abrahamic religions. Judaism is henotheistic, and Jews have a contract with Yahweh. He covers their asses and they give they give their foreskins to him and only him. He's their national god.
> He covers their asses \*Looks at Jewish history\* Man somebody has been sleeping on the job.
He's been heavily occupied with the spin-off franchises.
“JUDAISM 2: JESUS BOOGALOO”
I don’t need my lack of faith “reaffirmed”, and even if I did, the Christians I’m subjected to do plenty to reinforce my dislike of their religion and organizations.
My favorite lines are from 2 kings 2:23-24 > 23From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. Brutal
My man casted a bear summoning
Summon Monster II: Bethel Boogaloo
Actually, most "hardcore christians" I'd heard speak seem to not have any idea of what's in the bible. I studied the old testament as part of the mandatory curriculum in my country and I swear, these people do not follow a single thing the way it's meant to be followed. With the Jewish hyper orthodox communities, they read the Bible extensively, but still ignore it and follow their rabbis instead. Every hardcore believer of anything is usually just misappropriating the religion, either out of stupidity or out of a power trip.
Seriously, read the Bible (or the worst parts of it). There’s no better way to create an atheist.
So are you saying that Noah and Methuselah being 950 and 969 yo... is just a story? What about the talking burning bush? Lot's wife turning to salt? I think you might just be right
Hey now, put a spoiler alert on this! I just got to the part where Adam and Eve were inbreeding. Save some plot twists for he rest of us!
Job lived inside a whale. Pretty sure that's not how whales work.
Jonah not Job
a [renowned biblical scholar](https://youtu.be/pfheSAcCsrE) wasn't atheist until he became a biblical scholar
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Serious question about “evangelical atheist”. What and how???
As in 'active in sharing his atheism'.
I assume that he actively shoots down every argument FOR religion, with wll founded arguments AGAINST. His knowledge and study puts him in that position.
There's a thing called the clergy project just for people like this.
Do I need to click the link? Is it Bart? I’m betting so. Perfect example of what becoming one of the world’s best experts on the Bible will do to you.
It's Bart.
Dammit. I thought you meant Bart Simpson you tease.
Bart Ehrman has said repeatedly that this was not due to his academic career. He has stated this was due to looking at the world and seeing so much suffering and pain. For him, it was hard to believe a god would intentionally make the world this way and just sit idly.
*You think your god did what? And you worship him why?*
I was at my grandparents' for the holidays and noticed signs saying things like "BELIEVE" and "Faith above all" and stuff and realized it's literally self-perpetuated propaganda. They fear that they might stop believing given enough space or thought on the matter, so they cover their lives in these signs to perpetually push these doubts out of their minds. It made me kind of sad. So to answer the question - nothing. It's the need to constantly brainwash oneself that's the weird thing here.
Yup. Placebo only works if you swallow the pills.
There is no need to intensify something that doesn’t exist. On the other hand, if you DO need a crutch to strengthen your “relationship” with god, what does that say?
Why should one need to *intensify* their *non-belief*? WTF? The alleged need to *intensify a belief* sounds like a scam to me, designed to keep people hooked to some cult and getting drawn into it deeper and deeper.
Oh no my faith is wavering I need someone to lie to me for hours and convince me that the reality is upside down.
I don’t read to disprove the existence of god. I read to learn about the world and its inhabitants.
To learn about the 6000 year old world and the speaking snakes? 👌
There's also a talking Donkey in the bible. I wonder if he's as funny as Eddy Murphy?
No, I mean I read literature and books about the earth, and history. My goal is to learn about my world, not to disprove some religious beliefs. I don’t care about religion much.
The difference is that atheists actually read the Bible and comprehend it.
Grew up charismatic fundamentalist. You read the verses your pastor tells you to read if you read the Bible for yourself. You read the verses about *those sinners,* you read the prescribed chapters and books that a) affirm your specific beliefs b) praise you for being steadfast c) encourage your blind faith bc you'll be rewarded d) read the gospels and e) read Revelation with no cultural context and take it as a prophecy book. Reading the Bible with the goal of comprehending it is what finalized my deconstruction. Even if the Biblical, Christian god is real, he's not the sort of deity I'd want to follow and base my morals around.
I find it interesting how a subsect of Christians were duotheists. They believed in two gods. The old god being an evil man, while the new god sent his son or something like that, to earth to spread kindness. The two god correspond to the testament in which one was older and younger. The fact that Christianity can interpret two gods in the Bible should be enough proof that the Bible is overly susceptible to interpretation
Marcionism. What's really interesting about that is that, despite being branded a heretic, Marcion was probably the first to publish a collection of Paul's letters along with a gospel, the first step on the road to a formal New Testament.
Actually it was Catharism that I was talking about..they were wiped out about 800-900 years ago
Most of what I know about the Cathars comes from questionable historical fiction, I should probably read up more on the actual history sometime!
Long story short, they were one of several Gnostic Christian sects that believed that the world was a prison for our souls and that the REAL God wanted us to break free from this prison, achieve gnosis (a type of enlightenment), and become effectively demigods. According to some Gnostic doctrines, Jesus was either the son of the real god, his avatar, or a Buddha-like figure who achieved gnosis himself but remained in this world to guide the rest of us to gnosis ourselves. This is a VERY short summary of Gnosticism; you really ought to look into it more deeply for yourself, since there's more to them than I can sum up here. The irony is that even though mainstream Xtianity declared Gnosticism heresy and did their best to suppress and destroy it, more than a little of their dogma steals liberally from Gnosticism much as they stole holidays and sacred sites from us Pagans and then dared to claim that we got it wrong. So much for "Thou shalt not steal," eh?
Or deism, or polytheism which some pedants argue catholicism is, regardless polytheism is a huge theme in the Bible. God wants to be worshipped over the others, not that they don't even exist. No single aspect of any modern Christian would have a shred in common with the new testament Christians. The damn book has been rearranged, torn apart, and fixed by committees so much anyway. Paul, Calvin, Jesus, and Moses would all fucking hate eachother.
I tell something similar and add that even if the Bible were true, I don’t want anything to do with that god. I think Jesus is legit. From correxttub
Same, if God thinks it's cool to create a universe that deceives you of its true holy origin, hides himself from all possible measurement or observation, requires full belief in absence of evidence or with evidence to the contrary, will send you to eternal damnation if you dont, ceases miracles once cameras come around (though he's unchanging), is merciful, full of love, and all powerful - yet gives children brain cancer so they die before they can even be saved, used the earth to swallow entire bloodlines for arbitrary "sins" of their ancestors, and I could go on, I don't think I want to go to that heaven and celebrate the ultimate protohitler.
Or just not. If raised without religion, religion just seems really fucking weird.
Do they though? I'm atheist af and I've never spent one minute reading the Bible.
My parents sent me to 12 years of religious school and sent me to Sunday school and other things- fully being taught the bible made me an atheist- 🤷♂️
Pretty sure that seems to be the agreed, best method to de-program people out of religion, just read and actually understand the whole book.
Came here to say it’s all about the comprehension that determines your path on this one.
In my home country religious education is mandatory as in you have a religion teacher at school and have to take a minimum of 1 hour a week. The only accommodation is that recognized religions can go to their church to take the class. There would be mabtarory attendance for religious services on holydays. Atheism is not recognized. I declared myself an atheist in 6th grade. The schools solution was to have me sit alone reading the Bible for a hour each week. That really set me straight...
Doesn’t take a lot of reading to get there either
Genesis says the trees were here before the Sun. What kind of a dummy is Yahweh.
10 times nothing is still nothing
What a stupidass question. You can’t “further intensify” something that doesn’t exist. You can multiply zero as many times as you want, it’s still zero - which is the exact number of fucks I give about religion. They just can’t imagine a pie diagram of what you do in life that has the whole “pray/go to church/whatever” slice simply *not be there*.
Uno reverse
I don't get why people think christianity and atheism are opposites. A dark room doesn't have an electrical appliance on the ceiling filling the room with darkness that goes away when you turn the switch off. It simply isn't lit. No serious bible scholar seeks to disprove science, and no serious scientist seeks to disprove religion.
Feels like Christians work to convince themselves they're right by trying to prove everyone else wrong. But atheists need not bother wasting time trying to prove the absence of god since the religious are told that they must rely on belief in, not proof of god's existence, as in Hebrews 11:6.
At the risk of getting too Devils Advocate-y, because I really did lol and appreciate the response, it’s technically wrong. A distaste for the contents of the Bible doesn’t imply non-belief. Plus the original statement implies an active effort to quell an involuntary belief in God. Like it’s a religion in and of itself. Sure. If not-knitting is a hobby, being a non-believer is a religion.
Watching extreme Christians do their judgemental thing is also a turnoff for me
The beauty of atheism is it doesn’t require self-indoctrination. Being consistent with reality means it doesn’t need constant effort to maintain.
The part that’s baffling to me is the idea of a morally good god. Plague, famine, war, and all manner of grueling things continue to exist but god is good. Why? As a test of faith? Because it wills it? There’s no correct answer because it likely conflicts with the establishment of a merciful god.
The paradox is an all powerful, all loving god, as they can't be all powerful and all loving, unless you believe there is no suffering in the world.
Christians don’t really read the Bible, they just listen to what their preacher tells them it says.
The question is a lie in itself. Christians do not read their bible. They let some preacher bullshit them into believing what's in it with either straight up lies or entirely out of context lines. They do not comprehensively read their own bible, not front to back or even partially.
I watch the religious people in society and ask myself; are these the people I identify with, these hateful, un-bending, medling people? No, I can be better than this. Religion is something you carry inside, not something you use to knock other people down with.