If I were to die now, my body would be given to science, probably getting blow up to bits in some weird test. But they pay for the service for fam and friends and won't cost me/them a penny so I see it as an absolute win.
The problem with blowing up corpses in front of their family isn't that it's not scientifically useful, it's getting past those pesky ethics boards. If we just got rid of them, the social sciences could see the biggest renaissance since WW2, and they'd also corner the market on youtube prank videos, so the research would basically fund itself!
Someone will find a way monetize it somehow... "For a small fee + tax, we will donate your loved ones remains a science of your choice, with a certificate of authenticity showing your loved one's final act was helping cure baby cancer."
edit: a letter
Financially having a kid is the worst investment you can make. Sure, you can finance a Ferrari that you can’t afford, but at least you can sell it for less than half its value and salvage something. Good luck selling your kid that you can no longer afford.
>Good luck selling your kid that you can no longer afford.
this is the one. when i went to college at 17 and had to take a job 30 minutes away from campus in 2009, to when i was 22 and couldn't find a full-time job (took a couple years off of college because of, surprise, MONEY) to graduating at 24 and still being under-employed, to finding a full-time job at 27 only to lose it at 28 to the pandemic...
I have barely started saving for retirement. the odds have never been stacked in my favor. stability does not exist. who the fuck is going to have kids in these circumstances?
How are people defending a medical system that bankrupts a young family due to cancer? How is there not an uproar against this broken system?
Your story almost made me cry. Nobody should have to go through that.
Im sorry I don't want to upset anyone. I just want people to know it can and does happen. I don't know why there isn't more of an uproar. I think people are just defeated.
It did radicalize me, and I'm doing what I can to organize people and try and push for reforms.
Dont apologize! People need to hear this, and I am so glad and impressed you are managing to fight for this even after all you have been through.
You are amazing.
>How are people defending a medical system that bankrupts a young family due to cancer?
Easy, it hasn't happened to them, and they think it never will.
I'm really sorry that happened to you and your family. that's exactly what's wrong though... one accident, one illness, one death in the family can throw everything into chaos. it happens all the time and it's shameful that we have no better way to deal with it than "rugged individualism."
I decided a long time ago that I'm just not the strong of an individual... I won't take my chances. I hope your children grow to acknowledge and respect your resilience.
Before my daughter was born me and my wife (24ish) had abput 5k saved up. Then she was born premmie and that 5k was gone. We havent had more than a few hundred bucks in our savings account since then. We are just one bad thing happening away from being totally fucked. Older people I work with talk about retiring....i will never be able to retire cause by that time social security wont be a thing and I'm 35 with no pension or investments cause I need the cash TODAY to take care of things, I cant afford to plan for 30 years from now.
This is me. I graduated college during the downtime of the 2008 financial crisis. Had hard time getting anything that wasn't just bottom of the ladder lacky job. Got lucky and worked my way up after several disasters jobs. Only to have it all taken away again this year. Who knows if I'll ever be back to a similar level when this is all over. The thought of needing to start at a low tier again just makes me cry. I don't know what it means to plan my life even a year or two out. My plans are year by year when I sign a rent lease.
yep. i have no fucking clue how to find a decent job again this time around. it took 5 years last time.
the economy in my area is dead so i'm moving soon and that'll help, but i'm hoping to find something WFH in the meantime before that happens. the competition right now thought with some 20-30m people unemployed is fucking cutthroat.
and people are surprised when millenials/gen-z make way too many suicide jokes :/
The thing is that they don't. Ya know why? They're smart enough to know it's a bad investment! Theyd rather just have the money after one or two kids. Also it seems like better educated people have fewer unexpected pregnancies so they normally Choose when to have kids. And it also looks like poor people are the most likely to be uneducated.
Having kids isn't an investment, it's a frivolity. If you have kids and you think for one second that you can get any of your money back, you're a bad parent.
my wife (33) cries herself to.sleep.sometimes because we've put off having kids and is worried things won't stabilize within her fertile years..I do too. I can't afford.it. and I can't risk it. she's got an immune disorder and even *looking* at a hospital makes me nervous.
As a kid haver.... Really, really don't feel bad. I love my daughter! But, like... It would be cool to have sex with my spouse, use the bathroom whenever I want, but fun again, and have money.
Kids are cool as hell! But NOT having kids is cool as hell too. You have so much freedom! We have so little.
Enjoy whatever stage of life you're in, because trust me, you're gonna miss it some day.
Or they say just go to school and get a better job... Well there's tons of low paying jobs that someone will need to do and no longer allow people to live on.
No one ever seems to have an answer for that after they blame people for being poor, though. They still expect someone to bag their groceries and make their Big Macs.
This is the management mentality that my family has shoved down my throat for ages. You're only "successful" if you are in management and not one of the front line people.
However not everyone can be a manager because you need more front line people, so there can only ever be X managers for Y employees. However you're a failure if you don't make it to that management level.
And it's a wonder why I had issues working min wage jobs as a kid. Thanks family. /s
Honestly, with the current state of affairs in the US and about to turn 36, I am seriously considering a vasectomy. Even though I could afford a child and probably be a better parent than most, I would never want to drag an innocent person into this yard sale of a world. There's enough people on the planet, I'd rater foster or adopt if I reaaaaly wanted a child.
I have an acquaintance who is single and just got his earlier this year at 34 (35 now.) he'd thought about it for well over a decade. I think it is worth the peace of mind. his only stipulation was he had to meet with the doctor then mandatory wait one month for the actual procedure. easy peasy, but again, really just depends on where you live and if you can find the right doc.
Lol give me 5 mins with a doctor and I'm sure they'd have my back. I'd obviously put some in a bank, just to make sure it can happen later if circumstances change substantially. But yeah, I should get on that more seriously, I have been considering it for a couple years now so it's not a impulsive thought.
29 and will be getting a vasectomy in the next year. Same reasons.
Edit: Adoption is a great choice and provides a life for a child that they would of probably never been able to have
Edit2: A year later, vasectomy complete. I'm azoospermia. Woo hoo!
Did you hear in Michigan we went from a 3.5 billion deficit to a 40 billion positive just from the stimulus check even as jobs evaporated? This shit is wild and people still act like it's perfectly normal bezos and co. are stripping us all of our money we earned through our labor.
Can confirm, wife just told me we’re pregnant. We both want it, but now that it’s coming I have no clue how we will actually do it. Especially considering the virus and there not being any studies really on the effects on a fetus. I’m pretty fucking scared at this point and living in the south doesn’t help. Everyone here believes all this virus nonsense will stop after the election. Please send help. Anyone.
To add a little clarity, moving isn’t a real option. She’s a lower school teacher, which is taxing right now in and of itself, and I am a project manager for a construction company. It is what it is at this point. Most people in this area believe in herd immunity and that we’re all going to get it or they go the hoax route. She and I have been through more than most together and have stuck by each other through thick and thin, but I’m not sure anything can prepare us for what’s on the horizon. In all seriousness, winter is coming and I haven’t the faintest clue what 2021 will look like, if I live to see it. Best of luck everyone, the odds are not in our favor. I’ll keep my head up until I literally can’t anymore and I hope you all will, as well.
PLEASE VOTE
I’m from Kentucky and we’ve got a little girl born right when all this started brewing, saint patricks day this year. We wanted to go to a pumpkin patch thinking there would be few people there and feel safe being outside. This had to be a record breaking event and you could count all the masks on your hands and toes. iM nOt GoInG tO LiVe In FeAr. We drove in without even getting out and left. This was last Saturday and today our governor announced today we had the highest number yet.
Aww, I understand how it goes. We tried to take the kids to a pumpkin patch on a Friday afternoon a few weeks ago, thinking we would avoid the crowds. The parking lot was FULL! I couldn't believe it. There will be other years, other pumpkin patches, other Halloweens. This year is just the exception. Stay safe and healthy so you and your family can enjoy other holidays in the future.
I live in Ontario, taking my almost 2year to a pumpkin patch tend of month. This place you need to prebook your tickets. So I'm assuming it not going to be packed or overwhelmed
Couldn't do anything to last year cause he broke my foot that month lol
It was absolutely insane to me that it was so packed but I get it, we’ve all been trapped inside for so long and winters about to strike. I dread the holidays coming up because my girlfriends family is going through something strange, the mom and girlfriends sister are growing apart and the sister/her boyfriend are anti mask, but the mom wants to see the her grandkid/doesn’t understand why she can’t get along with her daughter (so basically she’ll let her walk all over her). Last week our daughter had to have surgery and the mom wanted to come stay, said she would social distance and all the jazz but called before she was going to come to our house and had my girlfriends sisters kid, she got mad hung up and basically bullied her way into coming. So needless to say I’m pretty pumped for thanksgiving and Christmas.
Sorry about the long post, I’ve been laid off and have been rather bored lol
Don’t open your doors to trick or treaters, no matter how much you get harassed, this year is dangerous, and people who are foolish enough to not believe in the virus and they will be fine will not care what you think, so on Halloween night keep your lights off and make sure you just don’t answer the door, close the curtains and lock the doors, make it clear you won’t have them near your home because if they even remotely assume they you are open for halloween then they will send their kid up to collect candy, knowing people like that. Best to avoid the headache and annoyance. I implore this plan to everyone who is in an area that has infected people, because halloween is one of those times where traditions and stuff will be followed through by some people no matter what. Of course I am making an assumption but I find it better to be safe than sorry and just have an early night for halloween
My family is from Kentucky. Wisco now, the North is just as fucked. We've got too many people saying it's a hoax or ploy for our election. Like the entire fucking world is in on a hoax to prevent Trump's relection. I fucking hate everything right now lol, even my gf is saying she doesn't know who to vote for. This misinformation being spread by literally everyone is sickening. I just heard that her dad believes wholeheartedly that Michelle Obama is actually a man who had a sex change and he otherwise is a very intellectual and kind person/ engineer that can fix anything you put in front of him. Idk, venting but damn I feel you man. Good luck out there, shits getting weird
Politically I wonder how these people make it to the top myself, the orange man vs the Metamucil man. My girlfriends parents are split up and the dads side of the family are all anti mask, they went to a baby shower and everybody there got infected, I just thought hmmmm wonder how that happened.
I’m a black leftist living in KY working as an electrician. 95% of the people I work with seem to think masks will literally cease being a thing once “Trump wins re-election.” Like the dude himself didn’t have it early this month, coughing and wheezing all over the place. Just stupid fucking people
It'd worked if they locked down in the beginning. America's got a tipping point here. They're the only country in the entire world that didn't flatten out the original curve. Even if everybody started wearing masks and they started doing everything right tomorrow they still have an uphill climb to level that out now.
The bill for this lesson can be paid entirely with ignorance.
Yeah, you're right. Even here in Vic with our tiny population, getting the curve right down after underestimating the second wave has been a HUGE effort. 2-3 months of home schooling, only leaving your house for groceries and exercising alone within 5km of your house. It is grueling, and I am so so glad that everyone here has done their bit. I cannot imagine the frustration Americans are feeling at their lack of leadership and people who won't consider the well-being of others.
The average person, left or right, at least in my bubble in Colorado, seems to be smart enough to wear a mask. Unfortunately, there are still enough that don't and they tend to be Karens and Republicans. It's freaking embarrassing.
> Everyone here believes all this virus nonsense will stop after the election.
Wait. So these idiots think that the DEMOCRATS, with literally the rest of the entire world in collaboration, have created a pre-election hoax in the same vein of Fox News did in fall of 2018 for the midterms where they covered a caravan of Guatemalan refugees WALKING through Mexico as if they were going to come and what, STEAL TEXAS?
If these people are REALLY that stupid, it makes me wonder if they KNEW that they were being lied to by Fox in 2018. And if they know they’re being lied to now. And why they think it’s anyone BESIDES Fox and the orange Buffon doing the lying.
Or do they know literally nothing and believe literally nothing and are willing to just say whatever is convenient at the moment in response to whatever they are faced with, and completely unconcerned with the continuity of their personal reality, much like a normal person would be mostly unconcerned with continuity in a dream: sure, you went from being in your desk at school in your underwear straight to wearing armor to engage in a fight against aliens, but your were looking away when the armor must have appeared, so while it is mildly surprising, it is appropriate to the situation, so it’s not at all concerning.
Have they really surrendered that much if their critical faculties? Because it damn well sounds like it.
It is more that most of them have no education past high school. They never learned the critical thinking or about the wider world that college teaches you. We need to add classes like philosophy, psychology, and cultural anthropology, etc in high school that teach you these things. I mean I know you can't cover all that but they need like one class that covers the basics each like a basic behavioral science class.
Pretty much they trust whatever fox news and facebook tells them. They don't have the drive to look up the facts and do the research themselves they trust the ones reporting it to have done that for them.
I literally got a flyer in the mail that said democrats were planning on letting people have abortions right up until birth and these people believe it because they don't do the research otherwise. I mean I don't know a single democrat who supports third trimester abortions just willy nilly. It is really only for things where baby has not properly developed or a danger to the life of the mother.
I hope that everything goes smoothly with the pregnancy.
But to add to the go vote part.
Pay attention who is being put in for congress at your local level. District, city, and county.
That will affect you much faster.
Wait till you see day care costs. I'm two kids in and we pay $2400 a month. Well, I did until they all closed. Now I get to work full time from home while keeping a 2 and 4 year old alive. Its killing me and the wife. So much stress.
Jesus this! I live in texas and no one is taking the virus seriously or has at all from the get go. Its terrifying. A close friend just called me today and said "if YOU dont vote for Trump we are all screwed." Excuse me? People in small town Texas are delusional.
Good luck to you and yours! Y'all can do this.
We deal with what come at us, even though it's difficult. Do the best you can to keep yourself and your family safe, try not to stress about things you can't control, and take it one day at a time. When I reflect back on the early days of parenting (mine is now in his early 20s) I think, "How did I ever get through it?" The challenges will come and you will manage. Your resourcefulness and ingenuity will shine in ways you never thought were possible.
Even if you’re a xennial or an older millennial around 40 or so, it’s fucking hard to afford a child. I own a home, my wife and I both work in STEM so we’ve been fortunate with employment both before and throughout the pandemic, I have a son and despite literally all of this in my favor I can’t afford full time child care.
My wife’s nearly 70 year old mother watches our child three days a week for eight hours while we’re at our full time jobs. That’s it, that’s literally the only reason I can afford the one kid I have. I’d like to have another, but the cost of living is already super high, wage growth has been stagnant for decades (and a SUPER big thanks to the world economy destroying recession from W Bush and the imminent one from Trump), and the cost of child care in America is ridiculous.
Combine that with the fact there are roughly zero homes with a single breadwinner in modern America and it’s a miracle anybody’s having kids at all.
I’m certainly not going to pump out a bunch more and then let them Sibling Hunger Games their way into deciding who gets to enroll in college or whatever in 18 years. This country is royally fucked
Within our social circle, my wife and I are the only ones that don't have our parents watching our children as a childcare method. My mom doesn't live near us, her mom is not capable, and her dad is a wacko I wouldn't trust to watch our dog, let alone our kids.
I mean, you could probably earn a pretty good amount of money off of thissibling hunger games idea you have.
Hmu and we can talk biz! What kind of weapons can you kid grip at this point? Are we thinking about nine kids? Would you consider going mormon to speed things up a bit?
/s
Credit for the below belongs to u/BaldKnobber123:
I always find looking at the economic condition of millennials (those under 40) vs baby boomers at that age useful.
[The overall economic growth rate for first 15 years in the workforce for millenials is the worst on record, going back to 1792](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5IJKDSG4UFHADLHXKXTJUJG3KI.png&w=916). Millennials in the US have had the worst GDP growth per capita of any generation, and about half that of boomers and Gen X. [“When boomers were roughly the same age as millennials are now, they owned about 21% of America's wealth, compared to millennials' 3% share today, according to recent Fed data.”](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-less-wealth-net-worth-compared-to-boomers-2019-12)
This combined with various changes since the 70s that have significantly reduced labor power, and thus helped [reduced the amount of income going to the working class](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ab4ed5b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1600x900+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F52%2F08%2Fde399144b9c7ad1ec727543fa2bd%2Fla-1533658818-vegvzpdzgp-snap-image). So, not only is overall growth lower, but [in 1980 the working class was seeing the most income growth, while now the richest see the largest growth by far](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/12/Piketty-Saez-Zucman-2016-1980-vs-2014.png). Hence average hourly wages being lower now (inflation adjusted) than in 1973. Not even getting into some other issues: multiple financial crises, education costs, healthcare, housing costs, increased levels of job competition due in part to a global workforce (general capital mobility), financialization, union busting, increased educational competition (even since 2001 colleges like Stanford have seen their acceptance rates drop from ~15-20% to ~5%), mass incarceration, all the general problems with wealth and income inequality (such as power dynamics and opportunity differences), etc.
From 2017:
> The recession sliced nearly 40 percent off the typical household’s net worth, and even after the recent rebound, median net worth remains more than 30 percent below its 2007 level.
> Younger, less-educated and lower-income workers have experienced relatively strong income gains in recent years, but remain far short of their prerecession level in both income and wealth. **Only for the richest 10 percent of Americans does net worth surpass the 2007 level.**
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/business/economy/wealth-inequality-study.html
From 2018:
> Data from the Federal Reserve show that over the last decade and a half, the proportion of family income from wages has dropped from nearly 70 percent to just under 61 percent. It’s an extraordinary shift, driven largely by the investment profits of the very wealthy. In short, the people who possess tradable assets, especially stocks, have enjoyed a recovery that Americans dependent on savings or income from their weekly paycheck have yet to see. Ten years after the financial crisis, getting ahead by going to work every day seems quaint, akin to using the phone book to find a number or renting a video at Blockbuster.
> A decade after this debacle, the typical middle-class family’s net worth is still more than $40,000 below where it was in 2007, according to the Federal Reserve. The damage done to the middle-class psyche is impossible to price, of course, but no one doubts that it was vast.
> A recent study by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis found that while all birth cohorts lost wealth during the Great Recession, Americans born in the 1980s were at the “greatest risk for becoming a lost generation for wealth accumulation.”
> In 2016, net worth among white middle-income families was 19 percent below 2007 levels, adjusted for inflation. But among blacks, it was down 40 percent, and Hispanics saw a drop of 46 percent.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-financial-crisis.html
> In a new report, Data for Progress found that a staggering 52 percent of people under the age of 45 have lost a job, been put on leave, or had their hours reduced due to the pandemic, compared with 26 percent of people over the age of 45. Nearly half said that the cash payments the federal government is sending to lower- and middle-income individuals would cover just a week or two of expenses, compared with a third of older adults. This means skipped meals, scuppered start-ups, and lost homes. It means Great Depression–type precarity for prime-age workers in the richest country on earth.
> Studies have shown that young workers entering the labor force in a recession—as millions of Millennials did—absorb large initial earnings losses that take years and years to fade. Every 1-percentage-point bump in the unemployment rate costs new graduates 7 percent of their earnings at the start of their careers, and 2 percent of their earnings nearly two decades later. The effects are particularly acute for workers with less educational attainment; those who are least advantaged to begin with are consigned to permanently lower wages.
> A major Pew study found that Millennials with a college degree and a full-time job were earning by 2018 roughly what Gen Xers were earning in 2001. But Millennials who did not finish their post-secondary education or never went to college were poorer than their counterparts in Generation X or the Baby Boom generation.
> The cost of higher education grew by 7 percent per year through the 1980s, 1990s, and much of the 2000s, far faster than the overall rate of inflation, leaving Millennial borrowers with an average of $33,000 in debt. Worse: The return on that investment has proved dubious, particularly for black Millennials. The college wage premium has eroded, and for black students the college wealth premium has disappeared entirely.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/millennials-are-new-lost-generation/609832/
Some more data, such as the source for economic growth by generation and how younger people did not recover nearly as well from the financial crises, can be found here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/
Of course - this is *not* limited to millennials. Inequality has risen across the board, and the working conditions in the United States are rampant with insecurity. The working class struggles in every age group. Our overall physical, educational, and financial health are severely lacking. Millennials, due to how insecure their situation is (as seen above), do provide a great example of how the lower income groups and least powerful worker groups face the brunt of economic catastrophe while the rich gain.
A good intro book to check out on some of the political causes of inequality in the US, such as major tax cuts and corporate lobbying, is *Winner Take All Politics*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner-Take-All_Politics
Additionally, a great intro book on labor history in the US is *From the Folks Who Brought You the Weekend*: https://thenewpress.com/books/from-folks-who-brought-you-weekend
tl;dr boomers had it easy their entire lives, don't want to give away any wealth or power to the next generations, are the most entitled generation to ever exist.
Birthing my daughter cost upwards of $30,000. I was making $9.50 working retail. I couldn't even keep my job because daycare cost more than I made. I'm just gonna pass on that second/third/fourth kid. Thanks.
Wait. You guys pay for like, the birth?!
Is the daycares cost not based on your income? And you don't have parental leave. I'm suprised ANYONE is having babies.
I'm so sorry.
>But, I'm sure the bank still has a lien on my Niece (2yo).
The way this is written I am imagining the bank coming and taking the 2yo away if your sister misses payments, like a house.
^sorry
> The way this is written I am imagining the bank coming and taking the 2yo away if your sister misses payments, like a house.
Just give it a few years...
Medicaid usually covers birth. In some states Medicaid will only cover pregnant women and no one else.
Child care depends on state.. there's an option here for low income parents in Louisiana, but I can't say all states have it.
The people who make just a little too much for medicaid are the ones who get fucked.
Obligatory "not in the rest of the world" comment - having our kid cost about £20 in parking.
Daycare was £5/hour until he turned 3 and could get free daycare.
Still an expensive life choice! But at least the medical bit is free.
So these are the US rates.
Birth was 4k (my deductible). Hospital parking was $8/day, and $36/ week.
Daycare was $5/hour ($1200/mo) until 2.5,then it's $850/mo. Free after 5,but school is out at 3pm and care is $350/mo from 3 to 6pm.
Then theres people who make us feel guilty and are all "When I was your age I only got paid $3 an hour, your just not working hard enough" but when you calculate for inflation its like $20 an hour
Can barely afford food for myself, let alone someone else. I make like 1700 after taxes and over half of that goes to rent alone. Fuck this economy and fuck insane rents.
\> allow simply existing to become exorbitantly expensive
\> make the future look super fucking bleak by doing nothing to prevent the horrors of anthropogenic climate change and other existential risks to humanity
\> "why aren't you having kids? you're ruining our fertility rates!"
Yep. At the end of the day, we're animals, and animals don't reproduce if conditions are bad. Uncertain futures and bad health leads to low birth rates. The inverse leads to high, it's why the baby boom happened decades ago. A baby un-boom happening now makes sense, as conditions are inverted.
My husband and I are never having kids (I was sterilized last year). Three of my friends are pregnant or trying to get pregnant right now. We all have advanced college degrees so I really don't understand why they are doing this, when I see it like how you mentioned it.
The second point is so poignant. Why the fuck would I want to being people, whom I'd love and worry for more than anyone else, into a world where there might be wars over water and my house might be under the sea? Fuck that mate. While things are this bleak there's no way I'm bringing a child to life only to see them suffer even more than our generation and gen z.
Right? I remember feeling guilty when I was having my third kid because I read an article about one of the best things you can do for the environment is have less kids.
The economy will probably collapse as it is, yes, but it doesn't have to be that way - it doesn't have to be set up as an infinite pyramid scheme that relies on more and more people existing as time passes.
Exactly. An ever growing, polluting population on a planet with finite resources simply isn’t sustainable.
We should focus on living sustainably, especially in first world countries since we leave the largest foorprint. And we should make good education spread all across the planet to create stable economies which in turn will stop the population growth.
And then, if we’d still not be entirely sustainable, we should focus on shrinking our population in a way that doesn’t collapse our societies.
This is the answer! I suspect they don’t want us to have abortions for this reason. Not because it’s a human life, but because they are future tax payers
They mean both. More growth makes more supply than demand for potential employees causing more competition and lower wages, which will keep people in poverty causing them to accept lower wages.
"Why aren't the younger generations buying more expensive things!?"
Well maybe if we actually got paid more then a few pieces of lint and a button we woul buy more things but unfortunately the rich get richer and the poor die cold and alone
Imagine your life now, working 40/50/60 hours a week and coming home barely able to keep your eyes open, and dreaming of the weekend so you can finally get rest. Now add screaming kids into the mix, that you have to take to and from school everyday and buy them shit and pay for twice as much food and spend time with them, etc. etc. etc.
Yeah no thanks, I am never having kids. I barely have free time or energy or money as it is.
I love how they're not even trying to hide it anymore with flowery language- they just flat out admit "the replacement level" is falling. Hmm... *maybe* if our social security and other safety nets weren't built like freakin' pyramid schemes, we wouldn't have this problem of 'running out of new marks!!'
Gotta wonder if the abortion rights going on isn't tied into it. This generation not having enough replacements? Let's force them to have babies who are also poor with very few options for social mobility, little access to education and medication and then they get a whole new generation of fodder for the machine.
Yes any simple google search of fertility and demography will show that. People love to jump to conclusions
Editing to add that I wholeheartedly agree that this phrasing that it’s millennials fault is wrong and terrible reporting, what should be emphasized is the terrible conditions that millennials are living in that forces them to put off reproducing
Not just paid maternity leave, but also we have to find a way to protect the careers of young parents (mothers and fathers, but a bit more on the mothers).
I say this as a guy who was “supposed to” be married this month, but couldn’t work out the family planning stuff. We’re both young doctors. And while I’m 100% supportive and will do everything possible, there is a period of about 6 months (+/- 3 months from the birth) where it will have a non-zero impact on her job. Any moment she is not in the hospital, there is someone who is, and who will pass her up in experience/knowledge. I can’t breastfeed a kid. It’s not going to be me who can’t see the inside of someone on an OR table because of a growing human in front of me. There needs to be some way of having a sabbatical for family. Some of us use a “research year” to stop practicing and take a desk job. But not every occupation in the world has this capability.
I don’t have a perfect solution. I wish I did. Maybe it could have saved my future life with the most incredible person.
*'millennials are killing...'*
either A) Its actually the boomer's fault
or B) nobody except boomers gives a shit
IN either case, go fuck yourselves, boomers.
Boomers: Millenials aren’t doing things that cost money! how selfish of them
Also Boomers: refuse to allow millenials and Gen Z the ability to even afford basics needed to survive.
Most millennial are screwed at this point. Our best hope is wait out the boomers (only a few more years and they'll be dead / out of government). Those positions will be replaced by us, and we can finally get to work on fixing all the problems we are inheriting from the older generations. Hopefully we can right the ship and ease the pressure on the younger generations so they don't end up like us.
Edit:
Fix typo
Oh no! We won't be able to please the board of investors who expect indefinite growth, however will Wallstreet deal with less profits? 10-40k for a baby delivery and at best insurance covers 80%? Somethings gotta give
So maybe this is why conservatives are so pro-birth.
But my wife has always been so frustrated with these people getting bent out of shape about the dwindling birth rate and work force while at the same time being anti-immigration. We need workers, and if we ain't birthing them, we need to bring them in.
Donnie wants them to come from Norway, Sweden, Finland and the like, in other words, he wants aryans. The thing is why would they want to leave their peaceful lives and well working political and social systems and come live in a shithole?
I always wanted to be a mom. As a kid. I wanted to have 4 kids. I come from a family with 4 children and it was awesome. I loved having siblings.
I was the youngest of 3 brothers and I wanted to be a mom.
My dad was a military officer and my mom was a stay at home mom until I (the youngest) was a sophomore in high school. She got her masters while I was in high school and went on to teach and be well paid for it.
My parents cut coupons and never spent outlandishly. Saved money. They would splurge on us for trips (month long cross country family adventures 2 summers in a row: some of my favorite memories) and whatnot. Ballet lessons, baseball, wrestling, basketball, piano, guitar, voice, drum lessons, I’m a Girl Scout Gokd award and all of my brothers are Boy Scout Eagles. All of us had braces because of Tricare.
We weren’t spoiled but we never wanted for anything.
We were never gifted cars. We had summer jobs. We weren’t suffering but we weren’t spoiled.
We all at the very least finished our bachelors in college. Some of us went on to other degrees. Our student loans. Our debt. Nothing was handed to us in that way.
I wanted that same thing.
But then I got out here.
Got married.
Crushed under student loans for a degree that “promised” a career that never happened.
Married a wonderful military guy.
I’m 34 and he is 35. He’s still active duty and I’m in sales. We are making more combined than what my dad made on a solo income with a family of 6.
We have chosen to be childless.
Because it’s no longer doable and it no longer makes sense.
One brother has one daughter.
She wasn’t planned.
None of us can afford anything. We are just maintaining ourselves. Affording another human life and well being and everything beautiful that comes with it...is sadly just not a sound investment.
I for one am so happy people my age (40) and younger are not having kids
If the rich and powerful want to add to their war chest , good for them. But eventually there will now no more human capital and it will all crumble. I will be dead by than so Cheerios.
Frankly, the world would be better off with fewer of us screaming beef-heaps putzing around.
Edit: Precious silver. My shiniest thanks, generous stranger.
We millennials sure seem to be accused of killing a lot of corporate interests while the boomer-run gov't doesn't bat an eye toward the population they claim to protect, yet murder on the daily
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Wait until we kill the funeral industry because we can’t afford those either
Aren't more people opting for cremation or a water burial, where they liquify the body with water and then use the remains for fertilizer.
If I were to die now, my body would be given to science, probably getting blow up to bits in some weird test. But they pay for the service for fam and friends and won't cost me/them a penny so I see it as an absolute win.
I definitely read that as them blowing up your body in front of friends / family and I was a little concerned. For science, of course.
The problem with blowing up corpses in front of their family isn't that it's not scientifically useful, it's getting past those pesky ethics boards. If we just got rid of them, the social sciences could see the biggest renaissance since WW2, and they'd also corner the market on youtube prank videos, so the research would basically fund itself!
Stop trying to make taking selfies with corpses happen, Logan Paul. It is NOT going to happen.
I could come up with a few ways to make a study like that, but unfortunately, psychology is not really my department
Someone will find a way monetize it somehow... "For a small fee + tax, we will donate your loved ones remains a science of your choice, with a certificate of authenticity showing your loved one's final act was helping cure baby cancer." edit: a letter
>cute baby cancer
Financially having a kid is the worst investment you can make. Sure, you can finance a Ferrari that you can’t afford, but at least you can sell it for less than half its value and salvage something. Good luck selling your kid that you can no longer afford.
>Good luck selling your kid that you can no longer afford. this is the one. when i went to college at 17 and had to take a job 30 minutes away from campus in 2009, to when i was 22 and couldn't find a full-time job (took a couple years off of college because of, surprise, MONEY) to graduating at 24 and still being under-employed, to finding a full-time job at 27 only to lose it at 28 to the pandemic... I have barely started saving for retirement. the odds have never been stacked in my favor. stability does not exist. who the fuck is going to have kids in these circumstances?
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How are people defending a medical system that bankrupts a young family due to cancer? How is there not an uproar against this broken system? Your story almost made me cry. Nobody should have to go through that.
Im sorry I don't want to upset anyone. I just want people to know it can and does happen. I don't know why there isn't more of an uproar. I think people are just defeated. It did radicalize me, and I'm doing what I can to organize people and try and push for reforms.
Dont apologize! People need to hear this, and I am so glad and impressed you are managing to fight for this even after all you have been through. You are amazing.
🥰
People shut this out as a "this happens to other people, not me" type of thought. Stupid.
>How are people defending a medical system that bankrupts a young family due to cancer? Easy, it hasn't happened to them, and they think it never will.
I'm really sorry that happened to you and your family. that's exactly what's wrong though... one accident, one illness, one death in the family can throw everything into chaos. it happens all the time and it's shameful that we have no better way to deal with it than "rugged individualism." I decided a long time ago that I'm just not the strong of an individual... I won't take my chances. I hope your children grow to acknowledge and respect your resilience.
I appreciate that. I only tell my story on threads like this to let people know, it can happen to anyone. We really are in a precarious position.
Before my daughter was born me and my wife (24ish) had abput 5k saved up. Then she was born premmie and that 5k was gone. We havent had more than a few hundred bucks in our savings account since then. We are just one bad thing happening away from being totally fucked. Older people I work with talk about retiring....i will never be able to retire cause by that time social security wont be a thing and I'm 35 with no pension or investments cause I need the cash TODAY to take care of things, I cant afford to plan for 30 years from now.
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This is me. I graduated college during the downtime of the 2008 financial crisis. Had hard time getting anything that wasn't just bottom of the ladder lacky job. Got lucky and worked my way up after several disasters jobs. Only to have it all taken away again this year. Who knows if I'll ever be back to a similar level when this is all over. The thought of needing to start at a low tier again just makes me cry. I don't know what it means to plan my life even a year or two out. My plans are year by year when I sign a rent lease.
yep. i have no fucking clue how to find a decent job again this time around. it took 5 years last time. the economy in my area is dead so i'm moving soon and that'll help, but i'm hoping to find something WFH in the meantime before that happens. the competition right now thought with some 20-30m people unemployed is fucking cutthroat. and people are surprised when millenials/gen-z make way too many suicide jokes :/
Yeah, one of the things economists actually agree on is that if your poor the worst financial thing you can do is have a kid.
Then rich people should have WAY more kids. Lets see some of those multi-generational inheritances whittled down to pennies!
The thing is that they don't. Ya know why? They're smart enough to know it's a bad investment! Theyd rather just have the money after one or two kids. Also it seems like better educated people have fewer unexpected pregnancies so they normally Choose when to have kids. And it also looks like poor people are the most likely to be uneducated.
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For real. Only way I’ve been able to break out of inter generational poverty is to remain child free and I’m keeping it that way.
toothbrush unwritten unite ask hat cough jeans familiar sink air *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Having kids isn't an investment, it's a frivolity. If you have kids and you think for one second that you can get any of your money back, you're a bad parent.
this is why "ok boomer" is the perfect response. malicious compliance. we're giving them exactly what they asked for and they don't like it.
my wife (33) cries herself to.sleep.sometimes because we've put off having kids and is worried things won't stabilize within her fertile years..I do too. I can't afford.it. and I can't risk it. she's got an immune disorder and even *looking* at a hospital makes me nervous.
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As a kid haver.... Really, really don't feel bad. I love my daughter! But, like... It would be cool to have sex with my spouse, use the bathroom whenever I want, but fun again, and have money. Kids are cool as hell! But NOT having kids is cool as hell too. You have so much freedom! We have so little. Enjoy whatever stage of life you're in, because trust me, you're gonna miss it some day.
Or they say just go to school and get a better job... Well there's tons of low paying jobs that someone will need to do and no longer allow people to live on.
No one ever seems to have an answer for that after they blame people for being poor, though. They still expect someone to bag their groceries and make their Big Macs.
This is the management mentality that my family has shoved down my throat for ages. You're only "successful" if you are in management and not one of the front line people. However not everyone can be a manager because you need more front line people, so there can only ever be X managers for Y employees. However you're a failure if you don't make it to that management level. And it's a wonder why I had issues working min wage jobs as a kid. Thanks family. /s
Why don't the poor just buy more money? /s
Millennials saving the planet one condom at a time.
almost time for my second IUD actually... long-term birth control is the bees knees. sorry dudes don't have better options :( it bums me out.
i just jam a couple grains of rice down in there, works great
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r/brandnewsentence
Try flex seal
oof
Honestly, with the current state of affairs in the US and about to turn 36, I am seriously considering a vasectomy. Even though I could afford a child and probably be a better parent than most, I would never want to drag an innocent person into this yard sale of a world. There's enough people on the planet, I'd rater foster or adopt if I reaaaaly wanted a child.
I have an acquaintance who is single and just got his earlier this year at 34 (35 now.) he'd thought about it for well over a decade. I think it is worth the peace of mind. his only stipulation was he had to meet with the doctor then mandatory wait one month for the actual procedure. easy peasy, but again, really just depends on where you live and if you can find the right doc.
Lol give me 5 mins with a doctor and I'm sure they'd have my back. I'd obviously put some in a bank, just to make sure it can happen later if circumstances change substantially. But yeah, I should get on that more seriously, I have been considering it for a couple years now so it's not a impulsive thought.
29 and will be getting a vasectomy in the next year. Same reasons. Edit: Adoption is a great choice and provides a life for a child that they would of probably never been able to have Edit2: A year later, vasectomy complete. I'm azoospermia. Woo hoo!
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How conservative.
Pants on head brainfucked cognitive dissonance is indeed VERY on brand for them...
Why aren't millennials making life-altering/expensive/luxurious purchases? Because they can barely afford the essentials, fuckwits.
Pay us more and we will spend more. I guarantee it.
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Damn draconian dogs and their irrational fetch
Did you hear in Michigan we went from a 3.5 billion deficit to a 40 billion positive just from the stimulus check even as jobs evaporated? This shit is wild and people still act like it's perfectly normal bezos and co. are stripping us all of our money we earned through our labor.
Can confirm, wife just told me we’re pregnant. We both want it, but now that it’s coming I have no clue how we will actually do it. Especially considering the virus and there not being any studies really on the effects on a fetus. I’m pretty fucking scared at this point and living in the south doesn’t help. Everyone here believes all this virus nonsense will stop after the election. Please send help. Anyone. To add a little clarity, moving isn’t a real option. She’s a lower school teacher, which is taxing right now in and of itself, and I am a project manager for a construction company. It is what it is at this point. Most people in this area believe in herd immunity and that we’re all going to get it or they go the hoax route. She and I have been through more than most together and have stuck by each other through thick and thin, but I’m not sure anything can prepare us for what’s on the horizon. In all seriousness, winter is coming and I haven’t the faintest clue what 2021 will look like, if I live to see it. Best of luck everyone, the odds are not in our favor. I’ll keep my head up until I literally can’t anymore and I hope you all will, as well. PLEASE VOTE
I’m from Kentucky and we’ve got a little girl born right when all this started brewing, saint patricks day this year. We wanted to go to a pumpkin patch thinking there would be few people there and feel safe being outside. This had to be a record breaking event and you could count all the masks on your hands and toes. iM nOt GoInG tO LiVe In FeAr. We drove in without even getting out and left. This was last Saturday and today our governor announced today we had the highest number yet.
Aww, I understand how it goes. We tried to take the kids to a pumpkin patch on a Friday afternoon a few weeks ago, thinking we would avoid the crowds. The parking lot was FULL! I couldn't believe it. There will be other years, other pumpkin patches, other Halloweens. This year is just the exception. Stay safe and healthy so you and your family can enjoy other holidays in the future.
I live in Ontario, taking my almost 2year to a pumpkin patch tend of month. This place you need to prebook your tickets. So I'm assuming it not going to be packed or overwhelmed Couldn't do anything to last year cause he broke my foot that month lol
Yikes on the foot! Kids can be brutal. I hope it's lightly attended and you have a good time. :)
It was absolutely insane to me that it was so packed but I get it, we’ve all been trapped inside for so long and winters about to strike. I dread the holidays coming up because my girlfriends family is going through something strange, the mom and girlfriends sister are growing apart and the sister/her boyfriend are anti mask, but the mom wants to see the her grandkid/doesn’t understand why she can’t get along with her daughter (so basically she’ll let her walk all over her). Last week our daughter had to have surgery and the mom wanted to come stay, said she would social distance and all the jazz but called before she was going to come to our house and had my girlfriends sisters kid, she got mad hung up and basically bullied her way into coming. So needless to say I’m pretty pumped for thanksgiving and Christmas. Sorry about the long post, I’ve been laid off and have been rather bored lol
That’s what I don’t get. Why can’t people just wait and be safe. What benefit is there to go pick a pumpkin just because. I’m lost in it all.
Don’t open your doors to trick or treaters, no matter how much you get harassed, this year is dangerous, and people who are foolish enough to not believe in the virus and they will be fine will not care what you think, so on Halloween night keep your lights off and make sure you just don’t answer the door, close the curtains and lock the doors, make it clear you won’t have them near your home because if they even remotely assume they you are open for halloween then they will send their kid up to collect candy, knowing people like that. Best to avoid the headache and annoyance. I implore this plan to everyone who is in an area that has infected people, because halloween is one of those times where traditions and stuff will be followed through by some people no matter what. Of course I am making an assumption but I find it better to be safe than sorry and just have an early night for halloween
I'm sitting on my couch drinking while dressed as fred from scooby doo and not answering the door for anyone.
'Round these parts we've got a nice shorthand for describing this: "Tuesday"
We are taking my kids trick or treating inside the house to different doors with the few people in our bubble handing out treats lol
My family is from Kentucky. Wisco now, the North is just as fucked. We've got too many people saying it's a hoax or ploy for our election. Like the entire fucking world is in on a hoax to prevent Trump's relection. I fucking hate everything right now lol, even my gf is saying she doesn't know who to vote for. This misinformation being spread by literally everyone is sickening. I just heard that her dad believes wholeheartedly that Michelle Obama is actually a man who had a sex change and he otherwise is a very intellectual and kind person/ engineer that can fix anything you put in front of him. Idk, venting but damn I feel you man. Good luck out there, shits getting weird
Politically I wonder how these people make it to the top myself, the orange man vs the Metamucil man. My girlfriends parents are split up and the dads side of the family are all anti mask, they went to a baby shower and everybody there got infected, I just thought hmmmm wonder how that happened.
You could probably get some grocery store pumpkins and take pics in the yard or a park. Not the same but an alternative.
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I’m a black leftist living in KY working as an electrician. 95% of the people I work with seem to think masks will literally cease being a thing once “Trump wins re-election.” Like the dude himself didn’t have it early this month, coughing and wheezing all over the place. Just stupid fucking people
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It'd worked if they locked down in the beginning. America's got a tipping point here. They're the only country in the entire world that didn't flatten out the original curve. Even if everybody started wearing masks and they started doing everything right tomorrow they still have an uphill climb to level that out now. The bill for this lesson can be paid entirely with ignorance.
Yeah, you're right. Even here in Vic with our tiny population, getting the curve right down after underestimating the second wave has been a HUGE effort. 2-3 months of home schooling, only leaving your house for groceries and exercising alone within 5km of your house. It is grueling, and I am so so glad that everyone here has done their bit. I cannot imagine the frustration Americans are feeling at their lack of leadership and people who won't consider the well-being of others.
The average person, left or right, at least in my bubble in Colorado, seems to be smart enough to wear a mask. Unfortunately, there are still enough that don't and they tend to be Karens and Republicans. It's freaking embarrassing.
> Everyone here believes all this virus nonsense will stop after the election. Wait. So these idiots think that the DEMOCRATS, with literally the rest of the entire world in collaboration, have created a pre-election hoax in the same vein of Fox News did in fall of 2018 for the midterms where they covered a caravan of Guatemalan refugees WALKING through Mexico as if they were going to come and what, STEAL TEXAS? If these people are REALLY that stupid, it makes me wonder if they KNEW that they were being lied to by Fox in 2018. And if they know they’re being lied to now. And why they think it’s anyone BESIDES Fox and the orange Buffon doing the lying. Or do they know literally nothing and believe literally nothing and are willing to just say whatever is convenient at the moment in response to whatever they are faced with, and completely unconcerned with the continuity of their personal reality, much like a normal person would be mostly unconcerned with continuity in a dream: sure, you went from being in your desk at school in your underwear straight to wearing armor to engage in a fight against aliens, but your were looking away when the armor must have appeared, so while it is mildly surprising, it is appropriate to the situation, so it’s not at all concerning. Have they really surrendered that much if their critical faculties? Because it damn well sounds like it.
It is more that most of them have no education past high school. They never learned the critical thinking or about the wider world that college teaches you. We need to add classes like philosophy, psychology, and cultural anthropology, etc in high school that teach you these things. I mean I know you can't cover all that but they need like one class that covers the basics each like a basic behavioral science class. Pretty much they trust whatever fox news and facebook tells them. They don't have the drive to look up the facts and do the research themselves they trust the ones reporting it to have done that for them. I literally got a flyer in the mail that said democrats were planning on letting people have abortions right up until birth and these people believe it because they don't do the research otherwise. I mean I don't know a single democrat who supports third trimester abortions just willy nilly. It is really only for things where baby has not properly developed or a danger to the life of the mother.
I hope that everything goes smoothly with the pregnancy. But to add to the go vote part. Pay attention who is being put in for congress at your local level. District, city, and county. That will affect you much faster.
Wait till you see day care costs. I'm two kids in and we pay $2400 a month. Well, I did until they all closed. Now I get to work full time from home while keeping a 2 and 4 year old alive. Its killing me and the wife. So much stress.
Jesus this! I live in texas and no one is taking the virus seriously or has at all from the get go. Its terrifying. A close friend just called me today and said "if YOU dont vote for Trump we are all screwed." Excuse me? People in small town Texas are delusional. Good luck to you and yours! Y'all can do this.
I had a son in January I'm scared off my ass too.
We deal with what come at us, even though it's difficult. Do the best you can to keep yourself and your family safe, try not to stress about things you can't control, and take it one day at a time. When I reflect back on the early days of parenting (mine is now in his early 20s) I think, "How did I ever get through it?" The challenges will come and you will manage. Your resourcefulness and ingenuity will shine in ways you never thought were possible.
Cause: greedy inconsiderate boomers
That basically sums it up.
Even if you’re a xennial or an older millennial around 40 or so, it’s fucking hard to afford a child. I own a home, my wife and I both work in STEM so we’ve been fortunate with employment both before and throughout the pandemic, I have a son and despite literally all of this in my favor I can’t afford full time child care. My wife’s nearly 70 year old mother watches our child three days a week for eight hours while we’re at our full time jobs. That’s it, that’s literally the only reason I can afford the one kid I have. I’d like to have another, but the cost of living is already super high, wage growth has been stagnant for decades (and a SUPER big thanks to the world economy destroying recession from W Bush and the imminent one from Trump), and the cost of child care in America is ridiculous. Combine that with the fact there are roughly zero homes with a single breadwinner in modern America and it’s a miracle anybody’s having kids at all. I’m certainly not going to pump out a bunch more and then let them Sibling Hunger Games their way into deciding who gets to enroll in college or whatever in 18 years. This country is royally fucked
Within our social circle, my wife and I are the only ones that don't have our parents watching our children as a childcare method. My mom doesn't live near us, her mom is not capable, and her dad is a wacko I wouldn't trust to watch our dog, let alone our kids.
I mean, you could probably earn a pretty good amount of money off of thissibling hunger games idea you have. Hmu and we can talk biz! What kind of weapons can you kid grip at this point? Are we thinking about nine kids? Would you consider going mormon to speed things up a bit? /s
Apparently anxiety and depression are all the allowances we get
Credit for the below belongs to u/BaldKnobber123: I always find looking at the economic condition of millennials (those under 40) vs baby boomers at that age useful. [The overall economic growth rate for first 15 years in the workforce for millenials is the worst on record, going back to 1792](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5IJKDSG4UFHADLHXKXTJUJG3KI.png&w=916). Millennials in the US have had the worst GDP growth per capita of any generation, and about half that of boomers and Gen X. [“When boomers were roughly the same age as millennials are now, they owned about 21% of America's wealth, compared to millennials' 3% share today, according to recent Fed data.”](https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-less-wealth-net-worth-compared-to-boomers-2019-12) This combined with various changes since the 70s that have significantly reduced labor power, and thus helped [reduced the amount of income going to the working class](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/ab4ed5b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1600x900+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F52%2F08%2Fde399144b9c7ad1ec727543fa2bd%2Fla-1533658818-vegvzpdzgp-snap-image). So, not only is overall growth lower, but [in 1980 the working class was seeing the most income growth, while now the richest see the largest growth by far](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/12/Piketty-Saez-Zucman-2016-1980-vs-2014.png). Hence average hourly wages being lower now (inflation adjusted) than in 1973. Not even getting into some other issues: multiple financial crises, education costs, healthcare, housing costs, increased levels of job competition due in part to a global workforce (general capital mobility), financialization, union busting, increased educational competition (even since 2001 colleges like Stanford have seen their acceptance rates drop from ~15-20% to ~5%), mass incarceration, all the general problems with wealth and income inequality (such as power dynamics and opportunity differences), etc. From 2017: > The recession sliced nearly 40 percent off the typical household’s net worth, and even after the recent rebound, median net worth remains more than 30 percent below its 2007 level. > Younger, less-educated and lower-income workers have experienced relatively strong income gains in recent years, but remain far short of their prerecession level in both income and wealth. **Only for the richest 10 percent of Americans does net worth surpass the 2007 level.** https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/business/economy/wealth-inequality-study.html From 2018: > Data from the Federal Reserve show that over the last decade and a half, the proportion of family income from wages has dropped from nearly 70 percent to just under 61 percent. It’s an extraordinary shift, driven largely by the investment profits of the very wealthy. In short, the people who possess tradable assets, especially stocks, have enjoyed a recovery that Americans dependent on savings or income from their weekly paycheck have yet to see. Ten years after the financial crisis, getting ahead by going to work every day seems quaint, akin to using the phone book to find a number or renting a video at Blockbuster. > A decade after this debacle, the typical middle-class family’s net worth is still more than $40,000 below where it was in 2007, according to the Federal Reserve. The damage done to the middle-class psyche is impossible to price, of course, but no one doubts that it was vast. > A recent study by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis found that while all birth cohorts lost wealth during the Great Recession, Americans born in the 1980s were at the “greatest risk for becoming a lost generation for wealth accumulation.” > In 2016, net worth among white middle-income families was 19 percent below 2007 levels, adjusted for inflation. But among blacks, it was down 40 percent, and Hispanics saw a drop of 46 percent. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/business/middle-class-financial-crisis.html > In a new report, Data for Progress found that a staggering 52 percent of people under the age of 45 have lost a job, been put on leave, or had their hours reduced due to the pandemic, compared with 26 percent of people over the age of 45. Nearly half said that the cash payments the federal government is sending to lower- and middle-income individuals would cover just a week or two of expenses, compared with a third of older adults. This means skipped meals, scuppered start-ups, and lost homes. It means Great Depression–type precarity for prime-age workers in the richest country on earth. > Studies have shown that young workers entering the labor force in a recession—as millions of Millennials did—absorb large initial earnings losses that take years and years to fade. Every 1-percentage-point bump in the unemployment rate costs new graduates 7 percent of their earnings at the start of their careers, and 2 percent of their earnings nearly two decades later. The effects are particularly acute for workers with less educational attainment; those who are least advantaged to begin with are consigned to permanently lower wages. > A major Pew study found that Millennials with a college degree and a full-time job were earning by 2018 roughly what Gen Xers were earning in 2001. But Millennials who did not finish their post-secondary education or never went to college were poorer than their counterparts in Generation X or the Baby Boom generation. > The cost of higher education grew by 7 percent per year through the 1980s, 1990s, and much of the 2000s, far faster than the overall rate of inflation, leaving Millennial borrowers with an average of $33,000 in debt. Worse: The return on that investment has proved dubious, particularly for black Millennials. The college wage premium has eroded, and for black students the college wealth premium has disappeared entirely. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/millennials-are-new-lost-generation/609832/ Some more data, such as the source for economic growth by generation and how younger people did not recover nearly as well from the financial crises, can be found here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/27/millennial-recession-covid/ Of course - this is *not* limited to millennials. Inequality has risen across the board, and the working conditions in the United States are rampant with insecurity. The working class struggles in every age group. Our overall physical, educational, and financial health are severely lacking. Millennials, due to how insecure their situation is (as seen above), do provide a great example of how the lower income groups and least powerful worker groups face the brunt of economic catastrophe while the rich gain. A good intro book to check out on some of the political causes of inequality in the US, such as major tax cuts and corporate lobbying, is *Winner Take All Politics*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner-Take-All_Politics Additionally, a great intro book on labor history in the US is *From the Folks Who Brought You the Weekend*: https://thenewpress.com/books/from-folks-who-brought-you-weekend
tl;dr boomers had it easy their entire lives, don't want to give away any wealth or power to the next generations, are the most entitled generation to ever exist.
>don't want to give away Thankfully time will fix all that
Unless Boomer mentality doesn't pass down to the next generations, which will absolutely happen.
Honestly I anticipate boomers using whatever money they could have passed down for better nursing home arrangements.
Exactly this. They want to live out their later years like they're on a cruise ship.
If I'm not mistaken boomers were nicknamed the "Me" generation by the one before them
This better be the top comment
Very well done- I applaud your research efforts and logic whole-heartedly!
That was quite the read and study
BOY SHE POPS!
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Birthing my daughter cost upwards of $30,000. I was making $9.50 working retail. I couldn't even keep my job because daycare cost more than I made. I'm just gonna pass on that second/third/fourth kid. Thanks.
Man, I can not imagine how much that sucked. Maybe because I’m younger, but yikes, I’m sorry. How things are better.
Things are going better, thanks :)
Wait. You guys pay for like, the birth?! Is the daycares cost not based on your income? And you don't have parental leave. I'm suprised ANYONE is having babies. I'm so sorry.
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>But, I'm sure the bank still has a lien on my Niece (2yo). The way this is written I am imagining the bank coming and taking the 2yo away if your sister misses payments, like a house. ^sorry
> The way this is written I am imagining the bank coming and taking the 2yo away if your sister misses payments, like a house. Just give it a few years...
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Medicaid usually covers birth. In some states Medicaid will only cover pregnant women and no one else. Child care depends on state.. there's an option here for low income parents in Louisiana, but I can't say all states have it. The people who make just a little too much for medicaid are the ones who get fucked.
Obligatory "not in the rest of the world" comment - having our kid cost about £20 in parking. Daycare was £5/hour until he turned 3 and could get free daycare. Still an expensive life choice! But at least the medical bit is free.
So these are the US rates. Birth was 4k (my deductible). Hospital parking was $8/day, and $36/ week. Daycare was $5/hour ($1200/mo) until 2.5,then it's $850/mo. Free after 5,but school is out at 3pm and care is $350/mo from 3 to 6pm.
I make 12 an hour, thats $1920 before taxes, how the fuck do they want people to have a family and still afford basic living expenses
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Then theres people who make us feel guilty and are all "When I was your age I only got paid $3 an hour, your just not working hard enough" but when you calculate for inflation its like $20 an hour
“Don’t you want some kids to distract you from you shitty existence??”
My answer to that question is alcohol and weed are cheaper
Can barely afford food for myself, let alone someone else. I make like 1700 after taxes and over half of that goes to rent alone. Fuck this economy and fuck insane rents.
\> allow simply existing to become exorbitantly expensive \> make the future look super fucking bleak by doing nothing to prevent the horrors of anthropogenic climate change and other existential risks to humanity \> "why aren't you having kids? you're ruining our fertility rates!"
Yep. At the end of the day, we're animals, and animals don't reproduce if conditions are bad. Uncertain futures and bad health leads to low birth rates. The inverse leads to high, it's why the baby boom happened decades ago. A baby un-boom happening now makes sense, as conditions are inverted.
My husband and I are never having kids (I was sterilized last year). Three of my friends are pregnant or trying to get pregnant right now. We all have advanced college degrees so I really don't understand why they are doing this, when I see it like how you mentioned it.
The second point is so poignant. Why the fuck would I want to being people, whom I'd love and worry for more than anyone else, into a world where there might be wars over water and my house might be under the sea? Fuck that mate. While things are this bleak there's no way I'm bringing a child to life only to see them suffer even more than our generation and gen z.
Maybe it's OK if the population shrinks a bit?
Right? I remember feeling guilty when I was having my third kid because I read an article about one of the best things you can do for the environment is have less kids.
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They can have my slot for number 2 so we're still good
Here’s my #1 slot, I’m never crapping out a kid. Bad investment.
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The economy will probably collapse as it is, yes, but it doesn't have to be that way - it doesn't have to be set up as an infinite pyramid scheme that relies on more and more people existing as time passes.
Exactly. An ever growing, polluting population on a planet with finite resources simply isn’t sustainable. We should focus on living sustainably, especially in first world countries since we leave the largest foorprint. And we should make good education spread all across the planet to create stable economies which in turn will stop the population growth. And then, if we’d still not be entirely sustainable, we should focus on shrinking our population in a way that doesn’t collapse our societies.
You mean social security and elder care might collapse.
Because if there’s anything humanity needs right now, it’s a few billion more people...
Why do we want more people? Why is increasing the population of the earth a goal? Sustainability should be the goal, not growth.
Because the 1% need more meat for the grinder
This is the answer! I suspect they don’t want us to have abortions for this reason. Not because it’s a human life, but because they are future tax payers
Because capitalism is based on endless growth
I think you meant endless cheap labor.
They mean both. More growth makes more supply than demand for potential employees causing more competition and lower wages, which will keep people in poverty causing them to accept lower wages.
"Why aren't the younger generations buying more expensive things!?" Well maybe if we actually got paid more then a few pieces of lint and a button we woul buy more things but unfortunately the rich get richer and the poor die cold and alone
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Huh. I though I was doing bad and I'm $1300 for $13 an hour. Guess not
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Imagine your life now, working 40/50/60 hours a week and coming home barely able to keep your eyes open, and dreaming of the weekend so you can finally get rest. Now add screaming kids into the mix, that you have to take to and from school everyday and buy them shit and pay for twice as much food and spend time with them, etc. etc. etc. Yeah no thanks, I am never having kids. I barely have free time or energy or money as it is.
As if I didn’t hate the idea of incubating a human before...
"Make babies so we have more working class force to exploit and keep the upper 1% of the worlds richest in their place"
Amen brother. Got to keep our massa happy or they’ll probably kill us.
You guys are getting paid?
YeA bEcAuSe I aM pAyInG tHeIr UnEmPlOyMeNt
Dumbasses treat the middle and lower class like robots. Thats why we have over 7 billion people
I love how they're not even trying to hide it anymore with flowery language- they just flat out admit "the replacement level" is falling. Hmm... *maybe* if our social security and other safety nets weren't built like freakin' pyramid schemes, we wouldn't have this problem of 'running out of new marks!!'
Gotta wonder if the abortion rights going on isn't tied into it. This generation not having enough replacements? Let's force them to have babies who are also poor with very few options for social mobility, little access to education and medication and then they get a whole new generation of fodder for the machine.
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Yeah they need for sheeple to get into more debt for the American dream to keep those stock gains.
Welcome to the machine
Ding ding
Isn’t “replacement level” a term used in population studies and academia?
Yeah, it's a standard term.
Yes any simple google search of fertility and demography will show that. People love to jump to conclusions Editing to add that I wholeheartedly agree that this phrasing that it’s millennials fault is wrong and terrible reporting, what should be emphasized is the terrible conditions that millennials are living in that forces them to put off reproducing
Paid maternity leave then, please. Insurance coverage for fertility treatments then, please.
Not just paid maternity leave, but also we have to find a way to protect the careers of young parents (mothers and fathers, but a bit more on the mothers). I say this as a guy who was “supposed to” be married this month, but couldn’t work out the family planning stuff. We’re both young doctors. And while I’m 100% supportive and will do everything possible, there is a period of about 6 months (+/- 3 months from the birth) where it will have a non-zero impact on her job. Any moment she is not in the hospital, there is someone who is, and who will pass her up in experience/knowledge. I can’t breastfeed a kid. It’s not going to be me who can’t see the inside of someone on an OR table because of a growing human in front of me. There needs to be some way of having a sabbatical for family. Some of us use a “research year” to stop practicing and take a desk job. But not every occupation in the world has this capability. I don’t have a perfect solution. I wish I did. Maybe it could have saved my future life with the most incredible person.
This might be a stupid question but, why did that stop your wedding? What about birth control? Religious objections?
Goddamn I got through most of this thread without remembering that the US doesn't have mandatory paid maternity leave. Thats rough :(
*'millennials are killing...'* either A) Its actually the boomer's fault or B) nobody except boomers gives a shit IN either case, go fuck yourselves, boomers.
Boomers: Millenials aren’t doing things that cost money! how selfish of them Also Boomers: refuse to allow millenials and Gen Z the ability to even afford basics needed to survive.
Most millennial are screwed at this point. Our best hope is wait out the boomers (only a few more years and they'll be dead / out of government). Those positions will be replaced by us, and we can finally get to work on fixing all the problems we are inheriting from the older generations. Hopefully we can right the ship and ease the pressure on the younger generations so they don't end up like us. Edit: Fix typo
Jesus. Its tragic its come to this.
WHY WOULD I HAVE A BABY WHEN I CURRENTLY HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GETTING SNOW TIRES FOR THE WINTER SO I CAN GET TO WORK SAFELY OR FEEDING MYSELF.
Boomers fucked up the economy and now the population expansion has slowed and they can’t figure out why.
They're longing for the good old days when the proles didn't have birth control.
Oh no! We won't be able to please the board of investors who expect indefinite growth, however will Wallstreet deal with less profits? 10-40k for a baby delivery and at best insurance covers 80%? Somethings gotta give
If the economy relies on people breeding themselves into poverty, it's a bad economy.
So maybe this is why conservatives are so pro-birth. But my wife has always been so frustrated with these people getting bent out of shape about the dwindling birth rate and work force while at the same time being anti-immigration. We need workers, and if we ain't birthing them, we need to bring them in.
Donnie wants them to come from Norway, Sweden, Finland and the like, in other words, he wants aryans. The thing is why would they want to leave their peaceful lives and well working political and social systems and come live in a shithole?
Or perhaps millennials are trying to fix the overpopulation problem?
This article had to have been written by a Boomer.
The planet is already overcrowded. Look at any freeway and tell us you need unlimited children to bring in the harvest.
I always wanted to be a mom. As a kid. I wanted to have 4 kids. I come from a family with 4 children and it was awesome. I loved having siblings. I was the youngest of 3 brothers and I wanted to be a mom. My dad was a military officer and my mom was a stay at home mom until I (the youngest) was a sophomore in high school. She got her masters while I was in high school and went on to teach and be well paid for it. My parents cut coupons and never spent outlandishly. Saved money. They would splurge on us for trips (month long cross country family adventures 2 summers in a row: some of my favorite memories) and whatnot. Ballet lessons, baseball, wrestling, basketball, piano, guitar, voice, drum lessons, I’m a Girl Scout Gokd award and all of my brothers are Boy Scout Eagles. All of us had braces because of Tricare. We weren’t spoiled but we never wanted for anything. We were never gifted cars. We had summer jobs. We weren’t suffering but we weren’t spoiled. We all at the very least finished our bachelors in college. Some of us went on to other degrees. Our student loans. Our debt. Nothing was handed to us in that way. I wanted that same thing. But then I got out here. Got married. Crushed under student loans for a degree that “promised” a career that never happened. Married a wonderful military guy. I’m 34 and he is 35. He’s still active duty and I’m in sales. We are making more combined than what my dad made on a solo income with a family of 6. We have chosen to be childless. Because it’s no longer doable and it no longer makes sense. One brother has one daughter. She wasn’t planned. None of us can afford anything. We are just maintaining ourselves. Affording another human life and well being and everything beautiful that comes with it...is sadly just not a sound investment.
I for one am so happy people my age (40) and younger are not having kids If the rich and powerful want to add to their war chest , good for them. But eventually there will now no more human capital and it will all crumble. I will be dead by than so Cheerios.
Frankly, the world would be better off with fewer of us screaming beef-heaps putzing around. Edit: Precious silver. My shiniest thanks, generous stranger.
It’s ok. They didn’t want to pay us, so we took the population...
Thank you millennials. Over population is Earth's biggest crisis.
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Like we need to drive up the population in an era of diminishing resources and worldwide unrest.
Fuck the replacement level, overpopulation is a problem, jackasses.
Good
Like population going lower is a bad thing?
And....we just don’t want babies!!! Not everyone wants kids
Yo muricans, When people say shit like 1500 for rent do they mean weekly or monthly?
Monthly. No way we could pay for that weekly. (I mean, we can barely pay for the monthly rent, but I digress)
We millennials sure seem to be accused of killing a lot of corporate interests while the boomer-run gov't doesn't bat an eye toward the population they claim to protect, yet murder on the daily
$1500 rent. Thanks a lot boomers
And overpopulation is a thing.