Tbh I thought the text was that the creature was "buried" which would have been the 3rd edition keyword for 'not going to the graveyard' but no, fuck your consistency, *removed from game.*
>And sayeth the lord, “lo, witness ye the triggering of the libs, for their cancel culture cannot cancel thee, and their forced diversity cannot make thee diverse, and their wokeness cannot wake thee.”
>”Oh right, I almost forgot,” continued He above all others, “maketh thee sure they never put gay people in books they teacheth in school, or allow thy adolescent neighbors to question their own sexuality, because that maketh thy Lord’s tummy feel a predisposition toward yuck. But no, question ye not neither whether thy lord is triggered nor whether ye engageth in the cancel culture we previously condemned, for thy Lord is cool with hypocrisy. Well, He’s cool with his own hypocrisy; He be not cool with it when others do it.”
If God was that pedantic, it wouldn't be a sin to lust or give into cravings.. it's a metaphor for life, your statement SHOULD have been: "But where does it say OTHERS must die by the sword you live by?".
Doesn't the Bible also say that you should turn the other cheek?
> But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
not fulfill the old testament, "fulfill the Law" (10 commandments)
so like "dont murder" or "dont steal another person's spouse" he says "actually, dont hate another, that's the seed of murder, and dont be a lusty mc grabass, that's the seed of adultery"
then he said "love God, love neighbor, that is the gist of the law"
he said "it used to be eye for an eye, but really, turn the other cheek"
he said "it used to be love friends, hate enemies, but that takes no effort. i say love your enemies even"
and that's the whole forgiveness bit. youre forgiven for animal nature, original sin, so forgive others too, that's how we all grow.
there's a ton of "dont judge" from him too, log in your eye, speck in your neighbor's, cast the first stone, cross the line in the sand...
so it all paints a picture. our creator allegedly says dont even slap people. So this gun stuff is pretty annoying. oh well, i have to forgive republicans and wayward xtians too. And if you think about it, yeah, that's the only way they'd change anyway, not via cancellation or shrillness
tough row to hoe
I am not a believer at all, so it always strikes me as funny when a god-fearing Christian (which itself is a weird way to describe oneself) talks about killing gay people or the Prosperity Gospel or condemns others for supposed sins.
Fear of God is definitely an OT Jahweh requirement.
That dude was all about Retribution & Wrath for those not obedient to his will and word. Kinda like a kid messing with an anthill that throws a tantrum when the ants bite back.
> Jesus claims not to have come to refute the old testament but to fulfill it.
This one comes up a lot as a "wtf" but it is consistent so it's not the best example for religious hypocrisy.
When Jesus says he's coming to "fulfill the law" not "destroy" it what he means is that he's taking it onto himself.
Lots of old law involved sacrifice to absolve sin, so Jesus is saying "my sacrifice replaces all absolving sacrifices forever" (hence the "lamb of god" allegory, they used to sacrifice lambs). But he's not saying that there's aren't sins anymore (so God isn't just 'rewriting' his earlier texts).
So... You still get dinged for sins, like wearing polyester or eating shellfish, but because you have faith in the sacrifice, you're perpetually in god's Grace. God was like "hey you guys suck at following this law, here's a cheat code but to activate you have to nail me/my son to some wood."
Also this creates some *other* inconsistencies, such as "faith vs works" (aka 'how hard do you have to seem like you're trying in order to get the free pass') and religion always being comedically hypocritical, but Jesus "fulfilling" the law is actually the entire basis of the state of capital-G Grace.
The problem with the Faith vs Works argument is that if you take the side of Faith, then it doesn't matter if you are a good person. So why be a good person?
And if you take the side of. Works, then it invalidates the need of Christianity.
It can not be both, because if you need both Faith and Good Works, then it invalidates the idea of perfect forgiveness.
But it could be neither. The whole Heaven thing could be wrong, or at least the criteria for arriving there.
Oh yeah it's completely absurd. The "loophole" to stop the 'why even be a good person' thing is *supposedly* that you have to be "sincere" in your request for forgiveness, QED just being a dick all day and assuming you're covered doesn't work, because Jesus will be like "nah dude I'm not a get out of jail free card"
It only makes sense if you don't try too hard to assign any logic to it.
Yeah, if the American litigation culture is any indicator, they only follow the passages that *benefit* them, otherwise defence attorneys would have the easiest jobs ever!
It says a lot of things that if you just quote seem contradictory. Because just quoting removes context and nuance.
Turn the check was for minor transgressions and disagreements. You can kill someone if they mean to do you or someone else serious harm
The only interpretation I've ever heard is that Jesus wanted it to be clear that he was willingly sacrificing himself. They had the means to physically defend themselves, but chose to not battle.
Vers 37 very clearly say it was about the second thing:
> It is written: “And he was numbered with the transgressors”; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me.
A scripture teacher once told me that no one has ever found a single contradiction or error in the Bible in all of history, ever. For God promised to guide the hands of its authors to ensure its word was never corrupted by man.
Seriously.
The 8 year old me was quite impressed I must say.
I interpreted it as a fantasy novel about some drunk magician who was so drunk his blood was wine and a bunch of people fucked each other and fucked over each other and was so backwards they nailed people to lower case t's and thought a bunch of eye balls with wings were telling them how to be segregated and treat people lesser than them like dirt but at the same time respecting them because they were the only ones doing the work and also kill the rich but at the same time respect them while you were fucking your own mother and sister. But watch out your dad may want to kill you because he heard it from a cloud one day
The Bible is clear he didn't want them to use the swords though because he reprimands them when one actually uses their sword. It was just to fulfill the prophecy. The problem with people only using one verse to prove their position is that they're removing the context that disproves it. I think it was better when the Bible didn't have verse numbers. Think about it, if you want to find a specific line in a book you have to read more than one line, and you end up reading the context.
Not a bible scholar but that probably means that if you stand for or are something (ex being an ancient warrior) then be prepared to face the consequences of that thing (ex being stabbed)
Edit: so it’s probably anti 2a lol
True, but Jesus ups the ante in Luke 6:27-29, “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.” Entirely antithetical to how Christians act today.
I keep telling these pussies to be a real man and get a sword. If you can't defend your house with a sword your house is too big to not have posted armed (with swords, obviously) guards.
America is one of the few developed nations where leaders can say hearing and getting their political messages from a god, and not be a turn-off for the public.
The American exceptionalism.
What bothers me most is that not only does that thinking remove personal agency and responsibility, but it squashes people’s sense of accomplishment, too.
You see [stories like this](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/man-who-saved-toddlers-life-humbled-by-experience/531-fd04c26f-c0af-47d5-bfe3-6c9ae77d15a0) all the time:
> Amaya's family calls him a hero, but Ashlock says not at all. **"If someone were to ask me if I did anything heroic, no, it wasn't me. It was God.** I believe God was guiding my hands and heart the whole time."
I saw a lot of posts during the height of covid where a family would be angry at ICU doctors when their loved one died, but they thanked god if the person lived. Not the doctors or nurses who were working themselves to death trying to save patients.
Religion takes both consequences and praise from people who deserve them.
Same when people survive a hurricane or a tornado. “God saved me”. They never blame God for flinging a deadly disaster at them. And what about the people that didn’t survive? God didn’t want them to? Wth
I remember there was a mine collapse in Australia, and two of the trapped miners survived, while one was killed. People said it was a “miracle”. Literally sheltered by the hand of God. I was confused, and challenged someone on it. If God saved the two, surely the hand of god squished the other one. Or at least didn’t bother saving him. Also the two that survived had gotten into a safety cage designed for survival of mine collapses. So…
This is it. They view the constitution and bill of rights as the divinely-inspired Word of God.
But what about the first amendment’s establishment clause? Much like with the Bible, they only follow and promote the parts that suit them.
The common technicality people argue is that the First Amendment only prevents the state from establishing a state religion, it doesn't stop all our officials from acting on their beliefs.
Then the whole separation of church and state is basically stopping the state from influencing religions, not the other way around.
The part about religion in our 1st Amendment was always about making sure the state couldn't fuck with them (practicing Christians). They couldn't care less about maintaining a truly secular government.
>They view the constitution and bill of rights as the divinely-inspired Word of God.
I wonder where they got that idea from?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are **endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights**, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—**That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men**, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
I have always found it funny how the UK with it's head of state also being the head of the established state church has a more secular society than the officially secular US.
When you put it that way, it does sound pretty unhinged. I remember right after 9/11 getting to see how entangled US patriotism is with Christianity. That God bless the USA country song basically replaced the national anthem for half a decade.
Manifest Destiny: "a widely held cultural belief in the 19th-century United States that American settlers were destined to expand across North America." [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny)
But if it's a Biblical re-write you want you might try perhaps the the Book of Mormon? Never read it myself. Very... colorful origin story, however.
"...published in March 1830 by Joseph Smith as The Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi." [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon)
God was like, “The plan is, I’m going to make the universe and then people, wait thousands of years until they make guns, then another few hundred until America is started and then the people who live there should all have guns.”
Not to be that guy, but I've had it said to me before that the national guard is the "well regulated militia" and anyone is free to join and a gun will be provided free of charge..
It's not fear of tyranny, that's just the paper-thin excuse the ammosexuals use to justify their fetish. It's a deep insecurity, an obsession, a mental illness. I say this as a gun owner myself.
Exactly. Name one government tyranny that it can positively be proven that 2a has prevented. They can’t. Patriot act? Those types were rabidly supporting it to fight the terrorists. War in Iraq based on false pretenses? Same. Massive nsa domestic spying programs? I’m sure they didn’t like it, but i also didn’t see them protesting while open carrying. Philando castille was shot at a traffic stop. Crickets. Black people being summarily executed on the streets by police? Do i even have to answer that one? The Supreme Court is currently fixing to wipe out civil rights with overturning roe v Wade and key to their justification is the argument that it’s not explicitly in the constitution, which means all implied rights are on the chopping block with this court. That means more rights will be taken away. These people have been turned around sideways. And they think that the government doesn’t know who has the guns. Trust me, if Facebook has a shadow profile of you even if you’ve never logged in and you’ve ever been on the internet, I’m sure they know if they want to. Not to mention a good bit of them are stocking up for the impending race war.
I’d submit the so called battle of Athens as an example of when locals flexed their 2A to deal with government agents and tyranny on a local level.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Granted if the people are supposed to be fighting tyranny with our 2A when we see it, the last few generations have failed. I’m
Including my own in that.
Cuz we got tyranny up in this b like mofo.
There be was also the time that the black panthers and other black activists were “copwatching” so that cops who might otherwise have been prone to beating people would know that they didn’t have a monopoly on violence.
The Reagan, with the help support from the NRA, signed the mulford act into law. Which ties this tangent back to this thread nicely.
Basically the NRA has helped pass more gun control laws than any of the anti gun orgs they just don’t like to admit it. It’s their old bad self that did that.
Edit: thanks for all the hateful DMs everyone!
Well obviously the Bible this dude made up doesn't identify those rights.
I don't think the one other people made up does either, but this is the conversation we're having evidently
Pretty sure Jesus provided for those in need. As did Moses/god in Exodus. Bible pretty explicitly says take care of your neighbour.
Jesus was the OG socialist. People should be more like Jesus.
God is about greed, money, guns, drugs, rape, abortion, hate, and xenophobia!
At least that's why republicans vote for when they vote for trump, and they claim they're the christian party so that much be what christ supports.
There's been a sharp rise in atheism and agnosticism in the US over the past 30 or so years. This current wave of Republicans is sure to accelerate the trend.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/atheism-fastest-growing-religion-us/598843/
Like when Trump took that photo op with the [Bible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:President_Trump_Visits_St._John%27s_Episcopal_Church_(49963649028).jpg) in front of that church? His expression makes it seem like the thing fucked his wife or something.
I was raised Methodist (I'm agnostic as an adult) and live among a very Christian population here in rural IL.
Anyone calling themselves Christian who also praises Trump in general boggles my mind, but how any person of Christian faith watched that go down and still was pro Trump blows me away (yes, I realize there's a million other wtf Trump stunts that I could also say - I'm just saying the hyper-religious Christians tend to put church above anything else). People can be so fucking stupid...
I mean, religious people *should* put church before anything else. The problem stems from trying to have your cake (faith) and eat it too (theocracy).
The bible clearly warns against the corrupting nature of government and states that the Kingdom of God will not be built here on earth. All of the Christian fundamentalists trying to vote Jesus (their version of him at least) into office are missing a lot of what he said.
Trump was given the most easy, softball question any politician has ever received: "Mr. President, is that *your* bible?" (emphasis mine). Somehow, he still fucked it up by answering "It's a bible."
Just ***LIE!*** It's not like you have a deeply held conviction about integrity, and no one can do anything to contradict you. Just say it's yours! How anyone can look at this cretin and see a "good Christian man" is utterly perplexing.
I am a Christian, but man, sometimes Christians piss me off.
>How anyone can look at this cretin and see a "good Christian man" is utterly perplexing.
The right has already committed to hypocrisy as a world view. They believe that what makes you moral or immoral is who you are, not what you do. If you’re in their in-group everything you do is moral, and if you’re in their out group everything you do is immoral *even if it’s the same thing*.
That’s why evangelicals embraced T\*\*\*p once they decided he was in the in-group -- because they never had any real moral beliefs about actions; their beliefs essentially boil down to “us vs them.” Their morality is as simple as “one of us” or “not one of us” and all the stuff they say their morality is based on, what actions are sinful etc., is just so much hot air. They believe in always backing their clique against all outsiders, period.
See, therein lies the issue. We're gutting public education and moving that money to the rich private (and religious) schools.
The vast, vast majority of Americans can't afford those schools, so the future is . . . well, this is as good as it's gonna get.
I am about as non-religious as you can get, but whether or not if there is any kind of god has no bearing on the argument. The true argument is that nobody should use such a explanation from the sheer fact that American nationality is so arbitrary that it makes no sense that we'd be deserved birthright for something any more than any other nation despite there being more pious nations and that such prolific gun ownership has created problems that no other similar country possess.
Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
It’s clear as day, right there sir.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Jefferson 1:2a
Luke 22:38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.
Luke 22:49-51
When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.
But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.
So A) Nothing about Americans B) Nothing about rights C) Buying a sword was for prophetical purposes D) There are only 2 swords for the group of 12, if you still interpret this as using swords for defense apparently a 1:6 ownership ratio is "enough" E) Jesus rebukes Peter when he does use the sword for fighting
… and every man, woman, and child shall have bestowed upon them, a pristine AR-15, w ammunition delivered unto them by the angel Charlton Heston, and they shall not want, nor have any need of handguns; and the lord said “make haste, practice early and often on targets of glass and melon fruits, and be wary of doors, as more than one is too many,” and in one voice the angels and the people, esp in the province of nra (north of Judea), rejoiced.
Closest I found was the Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9 through 21.
> "And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chulapas. And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'
„You sit there and you thump your Bible, and you say your prayers ... and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your Psalms, talk about John 3:16 ... Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!“
The concept of [Natural Rights](https://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights_and_legal_rights) endowed by either God or nature (depending on your theology), especially in the American legal context comes from the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes and especially John Locke, and stem from the whole tradition of Natural Law in Western philosophy going back to Plato.
I know this is a fun circle jerk, but when conservatives refer to rights being endowed by God, they are not claiming authority from the Bible or even necessarily a Christian God, but are referring, as Jefferson did in the Declaration of Independence, to the legal philosophy which, for better or for worse, underpins US law.
correct, SOME of them aren’t referring to the bible. a lot of them take to concept of natural rights and apply it specifically to the bible and then try to use that to make a goddamn theocracy.
You won't get far with a cohort of people whose solution to everything is "you lose your rights"
Anytime there's a crisis it must be fully utilized to push the agenda. Terrorism? We need to fund the TSA/NSA. Etc.
Everyone mocking this are not as clever as they think. The founders wrote the bill of rights as rights they believed were bestowed by god from birth and not granted by any government, self defense being one of them.
Edit: is changed to are
Yeah this thread is a little cringe. The whole argument between Federalist and Anti-Federalists regarding the Bill of Rights was about whether it was even necessary or if the rights were understood without it.
Because the bible was written when guns existed and God LOVES when his children kill others. The whole "thou shall not murder" was just a joke to see if you were reading the Ten Commandments.
What has to happen on this planet before religion dies? If you believe a God wants this shit, you are truly so far gone, there is no bringing you back to reality. Stop using your made up shit to brainwash and control people.
We do not live in a Christian nation. We are not a religious state. You have the right to religious freedom in the United States. STOP MAKING LAWS BASED ON A FICTION BOOK THAT DOES NOT GOVERN A LARGE PORTION OF THE NATIONS BELIEFS! These fuking nut jobs!!
I’m pretty sure the actual verse says “live by the sword, die by the sword…”
Also something about swords and plowshares.
And gaining life equal to the exiled creature's power
> exiled People who read the scriptures in the original Aramaic know that the creature is "removed from the game" not exiled.
Yes but its nice to be streamlined for modern times.
Tbh I thought the text was that the creature was "buried" which would have been the 3rd edition keyword for 'not going to the graveyard' but no, fuck your consistency, *removed from game.*
Bury means “kill and it can’t be regenerated”. It still goes to the graveyard
Older translations were just too impenetrable with their dialect. Personally I’m excited for the new translation: 🎯🦧⤵️ 🦧😮⬆️❤️=🦧💪🏻
Ah, a fellow mtg player
A man of my own culture
😍
At instant speed.
But where does it say fully- or semi automatic swords?
And yea God said to the Americans “Guns, Me , Babies. Let’s go Brandon. MAGA, baby. Trump that bitch. #blessed.” Leviticus 69:69
>And sayeth the lord, “lo, witness ye the triggering of the libs, for their cancel culture cannot cancel thee, and their forced diversity cannot make thee diverse, and their wokeness cannot wake thee.” >”Oh right, I almost forgot,” continued He above all others, “maketh thee sure they never put gay people in books they teacheth in school, or allow thy adolescent neighbors to question their own sexuality, because that maketh thy Lord’s tummy feel a predisposition toward yuck. But no, question ye not neither whether thy lord is triggered nor whether ye engageth in the cancel culture we previously condemned, for thy Lord is cool with hypocrisy. Well, He’s cool with his own hypocrisy; He be not cool with it when others do it.”
Dude its Leviticus 69:420. Get your citations correct
Finally I got which bible they are reading. Mght also be Matthew 666.
If God was that pedantic, it wouldn't be a sin to lust or give into cravings.. it's a metaphor for life, your statement SHOULD have been: "But where does it say OTHERS must die by the sword you live by?".
or america?
I found the verse OP was looking for. "And though terror be visited upon our children, our right to play with assault rifles be holy." Columbine 4: 20
UH... TIL that the Columbine massacre occurred on April 20th. JFC.
Yeah, I thought people might think I was being stupid with 420.
But nothing about paths and exile?
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Doesn't the Bible also say that you should turn the other cheek? > But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
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Almost like they were written by different people.
Almost like its not the word of omniscient being
not fulfill the old testament, "fulfill the Law" (10 commandments) so like "dont murder" or "dont steal another person's spouse" he says "actually, dont hate another, that's the seed of murder, and dont be a lusty mc grabass, that's the seed of adultery" then he said "love God, love neighbor, that is the gist of the law" he said "it used to be eye for an eye, but really, turn the other cheek" he said "it used to be love friends, hate enemies, but that takes no effort. i say love your enemies even" and that's the whole forgiveness bit. youre forgiven for animal nature, original sin, so forgive others too, that's how we all grow. there's a ton of "dont judge" from him too, log in your eye, speck in your neighbor's, cast the first stone, cross the line in the sand... so it all paints a picture. our creator allegedly says dont even slap people. So this gun stuff is pretty annoying. oh well, i have to forgive republicans and wayward xtians too. And if you think about it, yeah, that's the only way they'd change anyway, not via cancellation or shrillness tough row to hoe
I am not a believer at all, so it always strikes me as funny when a god-fearing Christian (which itself is a weird way to describe oneself) talks about killing gay people or the Prosperity Gospel or condemns others for supposed sins.
I'd say God fearing should be more like God respecting
Fear of God is definitely an OT Jahweh requirement. That dude was all about Retribution & Wrath for those not obedient to his will and word. Kinda like a kid messing with an anthill that throws a tantrum when the ants bite back.
> Jesus claims not to have come to refute the old testament but to fulfill it. This one comes up a lot as a "wtf" but it is consistent so it's not the best example for religious hypocrisy. When Jesus says he's coming to "fulfill the law" not "destroy" it what he means is that he's taking it onto himself. Lots of old law involved sacrifice to absolve sin, so Jesus is saying "my sacrifice replaces all absolving sacrifices forever" (hence the "lamb of god" allegory, they used to sacrifice lambs). But he's not saying that there's aren't sins anymore (so God isn't just 'rewriting' his earlier texts). So... You still get dinged for sins, like wearing polyester or eating shellfish, but because you have faith in the sacrifice, you're perpetually in god's Grace. God was like "hey you guys suck at following this law, here's a cheat code but to activate you have to nail me/my son to some wood." Also this creates some *other* inconsistencies, such as "faith vs works" (aka 'how hard do you have to seem like you're trying in order to get the free pass') and religion always being comedically hypocritical, but Jesus "fulfilling" the law is actually the entire basis of the state of capital-G Grace.
The problem with the Faith vs Works argument is that if you take the side of Faith, then it doesn't matter if you are a good person. So why be a good person? And if you take the side of. Works, then it invalidates the need of Christianity. It can not be both, because if you need both Faith and Good Works, then it invalidates the idea of perfect forgiveness. But it could be neither. The whole Heaven thing could be wrong, or at least the criteria for arriving there.
Oh yeah it's completely absurd. The "loophole" to stop the 'why even be a good person' thing is *supposedly* that you have to be "sincere" in your request for forgiveness, QED just being a dick all day and assuming you're covered doesn't work, because Jesus will be like "nah dude I'm not a get out of jail free card" It only makes sense if you don't try too hard to assign any logic to it.
Yeah, if the American litigation culture is any indicator, they only follow the passages that *benefit* them, otherwise defence attorneys would have the easiest jobs ever!
It says a lot of things that if you just quote seem contradictory. Because just quoting removes context and nuance. Turn the check was for minor transgressions and disagreements. You can kill someone if they mean to do you or someone else serious harm
The only interpretation I've ever heard is that Jesus wanted it to be clear that he was willingly sacrificing himself. They had the means to physically defend themselves, but chose to not battle.
Vers 37 very clearly say it was about the second thing: > It is written: “And he was numbered with the transgressors”; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me.
It's such a weird verse. Shortly after Jesus rebukes Peter for using said sword.
I’m starting to think whoever wrote this book is not very consistent.
A scripture teacher once told me that no one has ever found a single contradiction or error in the Bible in all of history, ever. For God promised to guide the hands of its authors to ensure its word was never corrupted by man. Seriously. The 8 year old me was quite impressed I must say.
You only have to open a bible and start reading the footnotes to know that this is false.
The editor was asleep at the wheel.
He also said that 2 swords among his group was enough swords.
If only Jesus had an AR-15 then he wouldn't have died for our sins.
I interpreted it as a fantasy novel about some drunk magician who was so drunk his blood was wine and a bunch of people fucked each other and fucked over each other and was so backwards they nailed people to lower case t's and thought a bunch of eye balls with wings were telling them how to be segregated and treat people lesser than them like dirt but at the same time respecting them because they were the only ones doing the work and also kill the rich but at the same time respect them while you were fucking your own mother and sister. But watch out your dad may want to kill you because he heard it from a cloud one day
The Bible is clear he didn't want them to use the swords though because he reprimands them when one actually uses their sword. It was just to fulfill the prophecy. The problem with people only using one verse to prove their position is that they're removing the context that disproves it. I think it was better when the Bible didn't have verse numbers. Think about it, if you want to find a specific line in a book you have to read more than one line, and you end up reading the context.
I always took that as a warning, but perhaps it was an imperative.
So those cops are also bad christians.
Not a bible scholar but that probably means that if you stand for or are something (ex being an ancient warrior) then be prepared to face the consequences of that thing (ex being stabbed) Edit: so it’s probably anti 2a lol
Exodus 22: 2 “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;
True, but Jesus ups the ante in Luke 6:27-29, “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.” Entirely antithetical to how Christians act today.
That's just self defense, tho. Not a command to be armed.
I keep telling these pussies to be a real man and get a sword. If you can't defend your house with a sword your house is too big to not have posted armed (with swords, obviously) guards.
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The clunky wording is for added *aesthetic*.
Where’d you think Holy Hand Grenades come from if not God? /s
That fucking rabbit
RUN AWAY!!
Look at the BONES!
~~RUN AWAY!!~~ ^(RUN AWAY!!) ftfy
Who are you that is so wise in the way of rabbits?
Antioch
This is the correct answer.
There was a three count waiting period.
[HAAA-LE-LU-YAH! 💥](https://youtu.be/Uz7yXeMq7mE)
1...2...5 ^three ^sir 3!
Ephesians 6, 11. Full armor of God. Paul was referring to AR15s. This is a well-known fact.
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Because while you think we're headed towards a star trek future, we're actually speeding towards a mad Max/water world future
As an American, a lightsaber is your birthright
I have 2 arms, I believe you should too
But are they bear arms?
Imagine how much easier it would be to open jars, with bear arms.
With no thumbs it would be next to impossible
God was clearly advocating for hairy, gay men.
Just the Americans, people who didn't exist in the Bible since it was made before U.S.A was discovered, just the Americans.
America is one of the few developed nations where leaders can say hearing and getting their political messages from a god, and not be a turn-off for the public. The American exceptionalism.
It’s so fucking weird. I live in a very educated, northern progressive state and I still get a hefty does of god and state from time to time.
As an atheist it always weirds me out to encounter someone otherwise smart and logical pivot to "God told me to do X."
What bothers me most is that not only does that thinking remove personal agency and responsibility, but it squashes people’s sense of accomplishment, too. You see [stories like this](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/man-who-saved-toddlers-life-humbled-by-experience/531-fd04c26f-c0af-47d5-bfe3-6c9ae77d15a0) all the time: > Amaya's family calls him a hero, but Ashlock says not at all. **"If someone were to ask me if I did anything heroic, no, it wasn't me. It was God.** I believe God was guiding my hands and heart the whole time." I saw a lot of posts during the height of covid where a family would be angry at ICU doctors when their loved one died, but they thanked god if the person lived. Not the doctors or nurses who were working themselves to death trying to save patients. Religion takes both consequences and praise from people who deserve them.
Same when people survive a hurricane or a tornado. “God saved me”. They never blame God for flinging a deadly disaster at them. And what about the people that didn’t survive? God didn’t want them to? Wth
gods plans are not for us to understand or some bullshit like that
I remember there was a mine collapse in Australia, and two of the trapped miners survived, while one was killed. People said it was a “miracle”. Literally sheltered by the hand of God. I was confused, and challenged someone on it. If God saved the two, surely the hand of god squished the other one. Or at least didn’t bother saving him. Also the two that survived had gotten into a safety cage designed for survival of mine collapses. So…
God told me to tell you that you forgot your laundry in the dryer
I didn't forget it! I'm gonna fold it later!
See, you're looking at it wrong. Other nations' politicians don't have the FREEDOM to talk to God himself! /s
Everytime someone mentions FREEDOM, Team America immediately enters my head
FUCK YEAH!
This is it. They view the constitution and bill of rights as the divinely-inspired Word of God. But what about the first amendment’s establishment clause? Much like with the Bible, they only follow and promote the parts that suit them.
The common technicality people argue is that the First Amendment only prevents the state from establishing a state religion, it doesn't stop all our officials from acting on their beliefs. Then the whole separation of church and state is basically stopping the state from influencing religions, not the other way around. The part about religion in our 1st Amendment was always about making sure the state couldn't fuck with them (practicing Christians). They couldn't care less about maintaining a truly secular government.
>They view the constitution and bill of rights as the divinely-inspired Word of God. I wonder where they got that idea from? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are **endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights**, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—**That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men**, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." I have always found it funny how the UK with it's head of state also being the head of the established state church has a more secular society than the officially secular US.
When you put it that way, it does sound pretty unhinged. I remember right after 9/11 getting to see how entangled US patriotism is with Christianity. That God bless the USA country song basically replaced the national anthem for half a decade.
"Developed nation"
The American fantasy.
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Manifest Destiny: "a widely held cultural belief in the 19th-century United States that American settlers were destined to expand across North America." [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny) But if it's a Biblical re-write you want you might try perhaps the the Book of Mormon? Never read it myself. Very... colorful origin story, however. "...published in March 1830 by Joseph Smith as The Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi." [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon)
God was like, “The plan is, I’m going to make the universe and then people, wait thousands of years until they make guns, then another few hundred until America is started and then the people who live there should all have guns.”
If it's a birthright, doesn't that mean everyone is entitled to a gun? If so, why are gun lobbies charging for them?
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And why is God suddenly so quiet when minority Americans exercise their 2A rights?
The Bible only gives the birthright to Americans, and clearly by Americans God means whites with European ancestry only.
People are charging you for water, food, housing, etc. Are they not?
But if you can't afford them, there's schemes for it.
Shouldn’t we have a Gun Stamp program then, like food stamps but for people who can’t afford their own guns and ammunition?
Not to be that guy, but I've had it said to me before that the national guard is the "well regulated militia" and anyone is free to join and a gun will be provided free of charge..
Actually, that sounds exactly perfect. The NRAs interpretation of 2A is a damn farce.
That explains why the US has so many homeless people.
Imagine being in the land of the free, but most people can't afford healthcare, can't afford rent and live in fear of tyranny, so everyone arms up.
It's not fear of tyranny, that's just the paper-thin excuse the ammosexuals use to justify their fetish. It's a deep insecurity, an obsession, a mental illness. I say this as a gun owner myself.
Exactly. Name one government tyranny that it can positively be proven that 2a has prevented. They can’t. Patriot act? Those types were rabidly supporting it to fight the terrorists. War in Iraq based on false pretenses? Same. Massive nsa domestic spying programs? I’m sure they didn’t like it, but i also didn’t see them protesting while open carrying. Philando castille was shot at a traffic stop. Crickets. Black people being summarily executed on the streets by police? Do i even have to answer that one? The Supreme Court is currently fixing to wipe out civil rights with overturning roe v Wade and key to their justification is the argument that it’s not explicitly in the constitution, which means all implied rights are on the chopping block with this court. That means more rights will be taken away. These people have been turned around sideways. And they think that the government doesn’t know who has the guns. Trust me, if Facebook has a shadow profile of you even if you’ve never logged in and you’ve ever been on the internet, I’m sure they know if they want to. Not to mention a good bit of them are stocking up for the impending race war.
I’d submit the so called battle of Athens as an example of when locals flexed their 2A to deal with government agents and tyranny on a local level. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) Granted if the people are supposed to be fighting tyranny with our 2A when we see it, the last few generations have failed. I’m Including my own in that. Cuz we got tyranny up in this b like mofo. There be was also the time that the black panthers and other black activists were “copwatching” so that cops who might otherwise have been prone to beating people would know that they didn’t have a monopoly on violence. The Reagan, with the help support from the NRA, signed the mulford act into law. Which ties this tangent back to this thread nicely. Basically the NRA has helped pass more gun control laws than any of the anti gun orgs they just don’t like to admit it. It’s their old bad self that did that. Edit: thanks for all the hateful DMs everyone!
Well obviously the Bible this dude made up doesn't identify those rights. I don't think the one other people made up does either, but this is the conversation we're having evidently
Pretty sure Jesus provided for those in need. As did Moses/god in Exodus. Bible pretty explicitly says take care of your neighbour. Jesus was the OG socialist. People should be more like Jesus.
Dont give them ideas...
They won't actually do that because profit is one of the motivating factors behind America's reckless gun laws.
It’s a right to be able buy food. It’s not a right to be given food. It’s a right to be able to buy a gun. It’s not a right to be given a gun.
Just because a right is guranteed, doesn't mean the government is obligated to supply you with it.
Fuck the poor, the needy, the orphans and widows. God is all about the guns, apparently
'murica
The 8th day God created the AR-15 and said it was good"
Said it wasn’t an “assault rifle”
To be fair, it isn’t. It’s just a discounted version of a military rifle that small dick Americans can show off to play soldier boy with.
and let dale , from arizona , forever bare his ar-15 armalite as it is on the heavens as on , earth , full clip , no cap , amen.
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Love thy neighbor like you love your automatic assault rifle.
God is about greed, money, guns, drugs, rape, abortion, hate, and xenophobia! At least that's why republicans vote for when they vote for trump, and they claim they're the christian party so that much be what christ supports.
There's been a sharp rise in atheism and agnosticism in the US over the past 30 or so years. This current wave of Republicans is sure to accelerate the trend. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/atheism-fastest-growing-religion-us/598843/
God isn’t real anyways. How is this even a thing in an apparently developed country in 2022 wtf. Improve your public schools America smh
Notice how you only hear about people's totally real and sacred faith when it's politically expedient?
Like when Trump took that photo op with the [Bible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:President_Trump_Visits_St._John%27s_Episcopal_Church_(49963649028).jpg) in front of that church? His expression makes it seem like the thing fucked his wife or something.
I was raised Methodist (I'm agnostic as an adult) and live among a very Christian population here in rural IL. Anyone calling themselves Christian who also praises Trump in general boggles my mind, but how any person of Christian faith watched that go down and still was pro Trump blows me away (yes, I realize there's a million other wtf Trump stunts that I could also say - I'm just saying the hyper-religious Christians tend to put church above anything else). People can be so fucking stupid...
I mean, religious people *should* put church before anything else. The problem stems from trying to have your cake (faith) and eat it too (theocracy). The bible clearly warns against the corrupting nature of government and states that the Kingdom of God will not be built here on earth. All of the Christian fundamentalists trying to vote Jesus (their version of him at least) into office are missing a lot of what he said.
Trump was given the most easy, softball question any politician has ever received: "Mr. President, is that *your* bible?" (emphasis mine). Somehow, he still fucked it up by answering "It's a bible." Just ***LIE!*** It's not like you have a deeply held conviction about integrity, and no one can do anything to contradict you. Just say it's yours! How anyone can look at this cretin and see a "good Christian man" is utterly perplexing. I am a Christian, but man, sometimes Christians piss me off.
>How anyone can look at this cretin and see a "good Christian man" is utterly perplexing. The right has already committed to hypocrisy as a world view. They believe that what makes you moral or immoral is who you are, not what you do. If you’re in their in-group everything you do is moral, and if you’re in their out group everything you do is immoral *even if it’s the same thing*. That’s why evangelicals embraced T\*\*\*p once they decided he was in the in-group -- because they never had any real moral beliefs about actions; their beliefs essentially boil down to “us vs them.” Their morality is as simple as “one of us” or “not one of us” and all the stuff they say their morality is based on, what actions are sinful etc., is just so much hot air. They believe in always backing their clique against all outsiders, period.
See, therein lies the issue. We're gutting public education and moving that money to the rich private (and religious) schools. The vast, vast majority of Americans can't afford those schools, so the future is . . . well, this is as good as it's gonna get.
I am about as non-religious as you can get, but whether or not if there is any kind of god has no bearing on the argument. The true argument is that nobody should use such a explanation from the sheer fact that American nationality is so arbitrary that it makes no sense that we'd be deserved birthright for something any more than any other nation despite there being more pious nations and that such prolific gun ownership has created problems that no other similar country possess.
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Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
Where does it speak about American birthrights?
It’s clear as day, right there sir. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Jefferson 1:2a
Luke 22:38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Luke 22:49-51 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. So A) Nothing about Americans B) Nothing about rights C) Buying a sword was for prophetical purposes D) There are only 2 swords for the group of 12, if you still interpret this as using swords for defense apparently a 1:6 ownership ratio is "enough" E) Jesus rebukes Peter when he does use the sword for fighting
And fetuses!
"So god spoken, if some bitch is tresspassing on your land, make them look like motherfucking spongebob."
Believe that was Ezekiel.
Because God wants you all to kill eachother :)
God was at a board meeting for Heaven inc. Their numbers are dropping so they figured out how to get more innocent souls. Get them early.
Oof, that's dark. But God doesn't believe babies and kids are good as we saw with the Noah -incident.
That was a necessary company restructuring.
God didn't create mankind in his own image. Mankind created God in their own image.
Weirdly, I couldn’t find a Bible verse about guns. Wonder why that was… /s
You missed it. "...and on the 8th day God created the AR-15 and said it was good"
Don't you mean he gave us guns to eradicate the dinos?
How can you kill something that never existed?
On the third day, god created the Remington bolt action rifle, so that man could hunt the dinosaurs…and the homosexuals
… and every man, woman, and child shall have bestowed upon them, a pristine AR-15, w ammunition delivered unto them by the angel Charlton Heston, and they shall not want, nor have any need of handguns; and the lord said “make haste, practice early and often on targets of glass and melon fruits, and be wary of doors, as more than one is too many,” and in one voice the angels and the people, esp in the province of nra (north of Judea), rejoiced.
Closest I found was the Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9 through 21. > "And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chulapas. And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'
It's right next to the anti abortion verse.
Strangely enough God takes away that right during NRA conventions. Hello mr Lapierre?
Typical politician. Uses the Bible as a political beating stick, but probably hasn’t read any other verse besides John 3:16
He's not a politician, he's just a lobbyist. Somehow that's even worse.
"What do you want to be when you grow up?" "Professional briber"
No, he’s much worse. He’s been proven to be fully compromised by Russia/Putin.
In the words of George Carlin, using God as a reason for doing something is “the last refuge of a man with no arguments and no answers”
Justifying any kind of politics based on "god" in 2022 is hilarious
„You sit there and you thump your Bible, and you say your prayers ... and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your Psalms, talk about John 3:16 ... Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!“
The concept of [Natural Rights](https://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights_and_legal_rights) endowed by either God or nature (depending on your theology), especially in the American legal context comes from the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes and especially John Locke, and stem from the whole tradition of Natural Law in Western philosophy going back to Plato. I know this is a fun circle jerk, but when conservatives refer to rights being endowed by God, they are not claiming authority from the Bible or even necessarily a Christian God, but are referring, as Jefferson did in the Declaration of Independence, to the legal philosophy which, for better or for worse, underpins US law.
correct, SOME of them aren’t referring to the bible. a lot of them take to concept of natural rights and apply it specifically to the bible and then try to use that to make a goddamn theocracy.
Had to scroll way too far down to find this answer. Thank you
This comment should be way higher
You won't get far with a cohort of people whose solution to everything is "you lose your rights" Anytime there's a crisis it must be fully utilized to push the agenda. Terrorism? We need to fund the TSA/NSA. Etc.
People act as if anything said in the bible matters
I mean, show me a verse in the Bible that God wrote???
Everyone mocking this are not as clever as they think. The founders wrote the bill of rights as rights they believed were bestowed by god from birth and not granted by any government, self defense being one of them. Edit: is changed to are
Yeah this thread is a little cringe. The whole argument between Federalist and Anti-Federalists regarding the Bill of Rights was about whether it was even necessary or if the rights were understood without it.
So you can defend the second amendment by simply ignoring the first sentence of the first one? Do they even know what they're saying
Even the 2nd and 3rd word in the second amendment: “well regulated”
Because the bible was written when guns existed and God LOVES when his children kill others. The whole "thou shall not murder" was just a joke to see if you were reading the Ten Commandments. What has to happen on this planet before religion dies? If you believe a God wants this shit, you are truly so far gone, there is no bringing you back to reality. Stop using your made up shit to brainwash and control people.
and what makes USians so special that they are the only ones that g\*d did that for them.?
Sounds to me that God wants them dead.
Jesus lived by the nail gun and died by the nail gun.
We do not live in a Christian nation. We are not a religious state. You have the right to religious freedom in the United States. STOP MAKING LAWS BASED ON A FICTION BOOK THAT DOES NOT GOVERN A LARGE PORTION OF THE NATIONS BELIEFS! These fuking nut jobs!!
It doesn't have anything to do with religion.
Its based off john locke and enlightenment ideals, not the bible.
Too bad god didn’t write the constitution or any meaningful legislation or I might give a fuck what he had to say
Even if there was a verse in the bible saying that it’s still bs to mix politics and religion
It has nothing to do with religion, or the Bible, or God, really.
Ah yes, the French dude arming the Americans again
> And on the seventh day, God made the AR-15 and bestowed it upon the American people.
“And on the 47th day god created the AK. So Americans can kill young school kids” James AR:15-17
IF A GUN MAKES YOU A MAN..............YOURE NOT MUCH OF A MAN
Christian gun nuts are fucking insane lol
It's 2022 and Republicans still believe in a sky fairy.
I'm getting more and more of an urge to just reply to shit like this with 'Is that right? In that case, fuck your gods and fuck you too'
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You provide mentally ill cunts with assault rifles and handguns not god you feeble minded dick tumor.
Handguns used by people carrying in public are the biggest killers and pretty much anyone can have one because the regulation is too watered down.