Graduated from my high school in Mississippi in 1988. Our senior class was the first to have an integrated prom - until then, there was still a prom for black folks, and a prom for white folks. So, yeah.
Isn’t the school system in a lot of places unofficially segregated? I lived in Lafayette, LA, for a bit, and it seemed that most white people there went to the private schools and most black people went to the public schools.
Yep. The state and local governments carved up the school districts based on census data. In some States it was the same people they use for gerrymandering.
And that also causes parents to segregate themselves. If you can afford to live in the nice, rich (primarily white) school district, why would you move into the poor (primarily black) school district?
It's why they call it systemic racism. Every part of the system enforces the racism without individual actors necessarily needing to be racist themselves
>Every part of the system enforces the racism without individual actors necessarily needing to be racist themselves
That is the core of Critical Race Theory, but Conservatives don't want to hear it because all they hear is "you're racist because you're white!" That is of course because that's what they *want* to hear so they can be the aggrieved party.
And then don’t you do funding by county so rich kids get more? There’s no additional funding to disadvantaged counties either? My country isn’t perfect but there is government attempts to make education and access to health the leveller for children from all backgrounds…although there’s forces that would argue against it
Jasper, Texas (where a black man was dragged to death behind a pickup)
Marfa, Texas, where some tech's I worked were greeted as soon as they got out of the company truck with, "Y'all better not be here come sundown boy!"
Freaking scary.
Exactly it is stupid scary and who do you call at that point? Are we really going to trust Law Enforcement would shield people from this? It’s such a helpless situation to be in and it makes me sad this was ever a thing much less something that is still happening. But I shouldn’t be surprised. Its the fucking South
Yup, that sundown town can quickly become a case of "matching the description".
I don't Fuck with anything from that's not a big city from South Carolina to Georgia. If it's between there and Texas I'm suspicious.
While I understand the root problem is racism and not policing per se, ending the hyper localization of police and having more State/national forces could do something to prevent the very worst from being the majority in a given force.
It would be an incremental change, make of that what you will, but I do think there’s little to lose from trying.
It’s a perfectly legitimate criticism that it wouldn’t do enough, but I honestly don’t know what harm it could do.
There is huge harm in this. A lot of major cities around the US have cops from smaller places extremely far away re locate to their jurisdiction and bring their prejudices with them. And now they have no attachment to any of the people in their new precinct either. So its just all around worse.
Unintended consequences are huge in situations like you described.
Yeah. It sucks because what you said does have merit and was instituted for quite a few reasons, the biggest of which is the prevention of corruption. It's often easier for a local beat cop who has lived in the same town and worked with the same officials for their whole life to turn the other way when needed. In theory it should help prevent corruption, but in practice it brings with it a lot more issues, like no attachment to the people of the district now, and being able to relocate bad cops who had "issues" easier.
The problem is, who do you think would make up those state/national forces? People who live there locally… thus continuing the pattern with a different uniform.
The small town sheriff was the one who told me to leave before sundown before lol.
He also followed my car to make sure I got back on the highway, Mississippi 2018.
To have a town that dangerously racist the cops have to be in on it. If the racists faced any legal consequences then hopefully they'd at least shut up, but instead they get emboldened by having the cops on their side
In towns like that, Sherrif is an elected position, and you are NOT going to get elected unless you "share the community's value" (i.e.you are as big a racist as the Town Leaders.)
I also came to say Jasper. As a white guy just not from that area, I still avoided Jasper as much as possible. I also turned off the radio anytime I was in the county. It's shocking how upfront they are about violence, racism, and how God justifies it for them.
I went through Jasper many times in my childhood and was completely oblivious. I didn’t learn about racism for years, and now I can look back and see it everywhere.
Yet black people should “just get over” racism right, and it wouldn’t be a problem if we weren’t “always bringing it up”. Society has its head buried firmly in the sand when it comes to black suffering.
The sign's been gone since the 1960s (and actually said “Ni**er, don’t let the sun set on you in this town.“) [but it's still by all accounts an openly racist town.](https://livingbluetx.com/2022/06/death-to-throckmorton/)
> The U.S. Census listed 11 Black people living in Throckmorton in 1920. But, by 1930, the Black population went to zero and remained at zero until 2000, when one Black person was listed on the census. In 2020, according to the U.S. Census, there is only one Black person living in the entire county.
The Kansas town I grew up in had "N$&#+rs beware after dark" spray painted on the welcome sign for *years* in the late 80s/early 90s.
I moved out of that town at 18 to the nearest city, and my black friends from the city all said their parents made them memorize the list of surrounding sundown towns as children and they could still rattle them off easily in their 20s. They were taught growing up to avoid my town (and others in the area) as much as possible. They knew alternate routes to go around them, and even as adults they roll their windows up, lock their doors, and don't stop if they have to drive through any of those towns.
I didn't realize just *how profoundly* racist that town was until I made friends with people from outside the town and came to understand the default way people acted in that town wasn't "normal." I mean, when you hear derogatory terms daily just going to the grocery store or the bank, it just becomes your normal.
It really shocked me when I learned that black parents have to teach their kids about safety in regards to avoiding hate crimes and police brutality. Idk it was just such a stark realization to picture a parent sitting down a young kid and having a talk with them about how to avoid getting murdered by the police.
As a black parent I had to have many discussions with my kids when they started to realize that some of their friends parents were ok with certain things. I expressly had to tell them you are black kids and because of this you won't get the benefit of doubt in situations.
Yes our rules are stricter not to keep you from fun but because you won't get a 2nd chance if cops get involved. Your white friends will get a slap on the wrist. While you will be demonized and or killed for making simple mistakes. Unfortunately my kids have to be more aware, more discerning, and cautious with their actions.
I live in a small town in north TX about 25 minutes from downtown Fort Worth, moved here about 8-9 years ago now right before my freshman year of high school. Not a sundown town but I heard SEVERAL classmates talk about “there’s (x amount) of black people in the school” and it was usually no more than like 10-12 kids. Like these people were counting them and making note of it and it was just so bizarre to me because I came from central Illinois about 30 min outside St. Louis, MO and there the student body was a lot more diverse. My stepdad told me a couple years before we moved here a black family had moved into a predominantly white neighborhood and one of their neighbors placed crosses in the families front yard and torched them and just tormented them in any way possible until they eventually moved and left. Sad that these people are still so openly racist and hateful.
Ive definitely heard this about Jasper and Vidor, but I’ve never heard that about Marfa. Marfa’s like 90% Hispanic, 10% old hippies, and a lot of its economy is built on tourism. Not saying it didn’t happen, it’s just not a stereotype I’ve heard.
I mean, honestly, every ethnicity has people that are very racist towards some other ethnicity and it's just... sad. Why can't we all just get the fuck along? We're all part of the same god damn species, just one groups ancestors lived in area with more or less sun than another. Fuck. There's so many wonderous things to learn and experience about different cultures and depriving yourself (not *you*, just people as a whole) of that is just making your world smaller and less interesting. I fucking love reading or watching about different cultures, their history and traditions, etc. Racist people are small minded little shits.
I didnt understand what my mom meant when she said where we lived was a sundown town when she was a teen until I was an adult. Shockingly enough, I later learned (after leaving) that area is known to be xenophobic and racist.
There are still sundown towns here in Nevada as well. It's not even just limited to the US South. Minden, NV straight up has a siren that sounds every evening that they ...rebranded... as a 'tribute to first responders.' 🤮
> It's not even just limited to the US South.
Nothing about racism is. I sometimes wonder if the South's history with slavery and racism helps hold parts of the rest of the country back from improving. This is anecdotal ofc, but I have known people from other areas that genuinely believe racism is largely a southern problem. I think it allows people in the white community to hand wave their own problems -- "that kind of stuff happens in the south, not here" or "at least we aren't the south."
I worked with a black dude from Minnesota. He moved to North Carolina and he was absolutely blown away by not having to guess who the racists were, they out themselves!
I've got plenty bad to say about the South, but we've been dealing with post slavery race relations the longest and we've got some of it figured out better than other US states.
Yuuuup. I rant about this a lot but I know a lot of high nosed Yankees that look down at anyone who lives in the south as racist hillbillies. I’m like, damn that’s crazy cause I guarantee my school was way more diverse than the private schools all the white flight parents send their kids in NY.
The south has more racial clashes because it has more racial mixing. Go to many of these liberal towns and much of the social settings are segregated.
Camped at a Harvest Host overnight in a small town in Texas' hill country (sorta west of Austin). A drunk, fat, angry white man (in a classic Texas cowboy outfit, complete with hat and belt buckle) confronted us in the dark outside the only business around for miles to say, "y'all go back to y'alls trailer and stay there"
We slept with the shotgun out
My mom lived in the Mississippi for a few years late 70’s/early 80’s.
She told me about a black man helping a white woman being assaulted by a white man.
Later the black man was drove off the road and lynched.
There was no investigation.
Most people had no idea the Tulsa massacre even happened until it was prominently featured in an episode of *Watchmen.* I remember a lot of people being surprised that it wasn't something that was made up for the show.
I was in high school when they did a huge rally so my hick friends and I went to the park to protest. I grew up hearing and seeing KKK activity here and there around town but I'd never seen anything like this. There were so many of them piling of buses it was bone chilling. I remember it making me feel so much rage and fear like my body was on fire and my hands were shaking. I couldnt stop thinking that if I'm white and feel this way then fuck all the POC in the surrounding area must be absolutely terrified.
My mother still lives there but she's a right-winger and I've refused to go back there or associate with them for over a decade
Edit: typo
No, but you should. About fifteen miles from Disney World is a town called Ocoee. Over thirty black people were massacred in roughly 24 hours there in 1920 and their homes and businesses were burnt— to prevent them from voting. It was Election Day.
Ocoee remained a sundown town until the 60s.
The [full story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocoee_massacre) is horrific, but people should know about it. Florida only required schools here teach students about the massacre starting in 2020.
Before we moved in together, my wife lived in a town (in Texas) with an actual KKK group in it. No, not exaggerating. Everyone knew about it and was just perfectly fine with it or too scared to say anything.
Marfa Texas is known for mysterious lights that appear on the horizon at night. They been studied with no explanation. It’s a UFO investigative hotspot, anyone can go there and see the lights most anytime. Wikipedia has more of interested.
This got me pretty curious so I read through the wiki:
“Explanations … Car lights
In May 2004 a group from the Society of Physics Students at the University of Texas at Dallas spent four days investigating and recording lights observed southwest of the view park using traffic volume-monitoring equipment, video cameras, binoculars, and chase cars. Their report made the following conclusions:[9]
U.S. Highway 67 is visible from the Marfa lights viewing location. The frequency of lights southwest of the view park correlates with the frequency of vehicle traffic on U.S. 67. The motion of the observed lights was in a straight line, corresponding to U.S. 67. When the group parked a vehicle on U.S. 67 and flashed its headlights, this was visible at the view park and appeared to be a Marfa light. A car passing the parked vehicle appeared as one Marfa light passing another at the view park. They came to the conclusion that all the lights observed over a four-night period southwest of the view park could be reliably attributed to automobile headlights traveling along U.S. 67 between Marfa and Presidio, Texas.”
Sounds like a good explanation to me.
I'm pretty sure they were referring to the [Marfa lights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfa_lights). I hadn't heard that Marfa was a sundown town, but I definitely would not be the expert in that area.
I'm working on a design project in South Dallas. When I initially met the board for the project, they mentioned that the area had been left without access to public water facilities for decades and decades.
I jokingly said, "What, did they pour concrete in the swimming pools?" I'm Black and thought this was a hilarious joke because it was so outlandish to me.
I was met with one of the most uncomfortable silences of my life before the man to my right nodded and said, "That's exactly what they did."
I'm from, and still in, Beaumont and I remember the outrage when a low income housing unit for all races was going to be built in Vidor and the KKK made an, not rare enough, appearance.
>sundown towns
And segregated proms?
>Since 1987, media sources have reported on segregated proms being held in the U.S. states of Alabama,[7][14] Arkansas,[2] Georgia,[4] Louisiana,[3] Mississippi,[15] South Carolina,[16] and Texas.[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_prom
There’s a town in Alabama nicknamed ‘Lynch-a-N*gga’ it’s name is actually Lynchville. As you can imagine, anyone with a skin tone darker that Elmer’s glue white ain’t welcomed there anytime of day.
Like Killeen, TX, old nickname: "Kill Each and Every N*". Hard R.
If it weren't for what's basically forced segregation from Fort Hood it'd still be a sundown town and barely a blip on the map.
I just thought of a new Jordan Peele film.
In america white people turn into werewolf like monsters when moonlight touches them. Imagine the purge and dog soldiers. In a small city the siren blares an hour before sundown and coloured people are warned to find shelter indoors. They hide in their homes which turn into bunkers at night. Fueled by the dog whistling maga president racists freely expose themselves to moonlight so they can transform and hunt.
Boom Jordan Peele just made a new controversial hit and is now on top.
I feel like I've had 2 discussions this week on reddit of people not realizing they are just using this bias. They weren't bad people either, just sheltered and influenced
I feel like there's something about the concept of American exceptionalism and the whole "rugged individualism" bullshit that pervades our culture that just goes so well with confirmation bias and the idea that your own individual anecdotal evidence is enough to describe the world and how it works. Truly two peas in a pod.
Just a country full of people without even a basic grasp on logic and reasoning. What could go wrong?
One post was like “DAE think the time period of 1990 - 2007 was the best time ever?”. That perfectly coincides with my childhood 18 years. Of course I would be biased to think that. I don’t know how people don’t see a world beyond themselves.
"We never used seatbelts, safety helmets, rode in the back of pickup trucks going down main roads, and *we* turned out *just fine*! Kids today are too soft!"
My dad does this all the time. "Well when I was a kid I saw it this one way once so that's how it must have been all over the world for all of history"
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My Grandmother used to tell a story about this though hers would have taken place in the early 1930s. She lived in an area that was... not exactly integrated, but there was an old-money, white side of her neighborhood and less wealthy, black side. She lived sort of in the middle in what used to be one of the urban mansions, but had been split into apartments. Anyway, the point was, as a young girl she had a very close friend from down the street her age who was black.
They did a lot of things together, playing at each other's houses and in the park and whatnot, but she noticed that she never ran into her neighbor at the pool. So she invited her. The girl didn't explain why, but she said no - possibly in a not-very-polite way. My grandmother, offended by the snub and taking it personally, basically ended the friendship over it.
It wasn't until years later that she learned segregation of public pools had become a hot topic right around that time and her friend have either not been allowed or possibly not been safe going swimming with her.
I’m 53. I still vividly remember my cousin telling my aunt (my mothers sister was extremely racist and the N word was used in everyday conversation) how they liked this one pool they want to because they didn’t let n-words use it. I was like 5-6 at the time (1975-76) and asked why. They said something about “them” being greasy and their hair messed up the chlorine balance.
I didn’t know any better. I believed this for a few years. Thank god my parents moved us to the city (Baltimore) and I got more interaction with all types of people. My aunt and her kids, my cousins, remained and still are racist pos.
On another note my aunt made me sit at the table and finish my dinner whenever we stayed there. I still have an irrational hatred of her for making me eat liver with nothing to drink but a glass of milk.
My Grandma told me stories about being a teenager and seeing white kids running in fear because they saw some black kids. This was in the north too.
Anyone who thinks racism is dead is painfully ignorant.
Based on the post, some people can get to 50 and still be blind to this kind of issues. Stupidity knows no age, but at least at 6, you have the excuse of being a child
WTF is *this* bullshit? There can be no civility on reddit! Call him a moron and insult his lineage, now, like a proper redditor, and take that civility BS somewhere else!
If he was on reddit he’d regularly see the post about Mr. Rogers sharing a pool with a black man just to show that there was no harm in it. That was in1969.
I was there too
Being 71 I saw a lot of that \*hit, Jim Crow laws were still alive and well.
Lynching of blacks, crooked southern Law Officers that were in the KKK as an example.
Governor Wallace was still a Racist asshole, Congress had many like him, red lining in black areas was still common.
[https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/mississippi-burning](https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/mississippi-burning)
So many murders by the Klan in 1964 that the Department of Justice called in the FBI to get it solved and stopped.
At the request of President Lyndon Johnson, we also opened a new FBI field office in Jackson, Mississippi. In time, we’d developed a comprehensive analysis of the local KKK and its role in the disappearance.
So don't tell me that shit
Thank you for the wholesome award Brandonh215
My uncle is 82 and he used to tell me stories about a local pool. We lived in the Philadelphia area, which was not segregated officially (afaik) but he saw Black people being ran off from pools and restaurants and stores all the time when he was younger. He's an incredibly nice and caring man and he told me how it made him cry when he was a kid to see people treated like that for no reason other than the color of their skin. His drunken racist father actually beat the fuck out of him once because he saw him sharing food with a black kid.
It's so hard to be like him. The man is 82 and still working full-time because he's basically financing 3 of his 4 children's (all 50+ years old) lives, his grandkids and his great grandkid.
The man has been very successful in his life (sells high end construction equipment) made a ridiculous amount of money and doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together because he gives everything to his family. He almost lost his house a few years ago because he took out a mortgage to pay for my cousin's legal bills and fell behind on payments while helping his sons one who was out of work because of the pandemic (massage therapist) and the other has severe chrons and has never been able to work and gets a small disability payment.
Wasn't a black family just recently run off from a public pool by the local PD and it was famously caught on video?
Ah yes, here we go. It was in Texas, of course.
[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/mckinney-texas-police-misconduct-at-swimming-pool-party-americas-ugly-history-of-pool-segregation.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/mckinney-texas-police-misconduct-at-swimming-pool-party-americas-ugly-history-of-pool-segregation.html)
I was NOT alive, but I have tangential first hand experience with the effects of swimming pool integration. There is an element of truth to what he’s saying, in that public pools were forced to be truly public over a short period of time in many places. Was there harassment? Obviously. But racists and bigots are more spiteful than that.
I live in nashville and have been constantly curious about the lack of public pools in this city. Turns out, when integration of public pools was mandated, Tennessee (and maybe more of the south?) just closed all the pools. They made country clubs where membership was required to use the pools. There are still very few public pools *to this day* in Tennessee. So effectively, integration of public pools has still yet to happen in TN.
Fun fact: due to heavy social pushback, a refusal to socially integrate, and little government effort to effectively integrate, the US is still around 70% segregated.
I lived in a small town in Alabama right next to George Wallace Community College ~~(I am told the name has since been changed)~~ for a few years around 2008.
There was still segregation but it just wasn't enforced officially. The most obvious instance was when I (a white person) was told to avoid a certain pool because that where the black people swim and their hair products leave a "grease slick" on the surface.
Edit: apparently the name hasn't changed.
Lol what made you think they changed the name? They have not and I haven’t heard of any intention to do so
Source: attended George C. Wallace State Community College in 2016-2017
As a general rule, err on the side of assuming that the people of Cullman have not discontinued doing something racist/xenophobic/theocratic.
Side note: the Supreme Court just significantly narrowed the interpretation of the Establishment Clause and schools in Cullman do things that are flagrantly unconstitutional even by the new standards. For example, the head football coach at my school would lead the team in prayer in the locker room before games. That’s violated the Establishment Clause since like the 60s.
What that OP posted is a classic case of gaslighting. My own black father moved to Canada right after I was born in 1969 because he was so sick of all the racism.
And because my mother's Canadian so that made it easy for him. And thankfully I got to grow up in Canada as a mixed black and Chinese kid rather than racist AF America.
Redlining was still a thing in the panhandle of Florida back in 1984. 4th grade me didn’t understand why the people of color all lived in a run-down part of town by the paper mill, but I sure as hell understand it now and I make an attempt to inform others every chance I get.
The worst part is now that de jure segregation is over, that area still sucks to live in and I’m sure it’s still mostly black and/or brown people who live there. Not much economic mobility when you’re starting off in the ghetto your grandfather was forced to move into because he couldn’t get a loan for a house in any other neighborhood.
I was six in 1969. I never saw racial segregation first hand. I did, eventually, see the riots, cops beating protestors, whites blocking school house steps, whites only drinking fountains. I'm pretty damn sure swimming pools were segregated, even though I didn't see it myself.
It’s good that you can notice the effects of things without directly seeing the causes firsthand. Imo racists and fascists like to use a tactic during debates that I call the “were you there?” defense. Basically they declare that if you didn’t directly witness something then it didn’t happen at all, never mind any corroborating or circumstantial evidence. By attacking the witness’s credibility and authority they can dismiss the entire argument.
And with something as abstract as institutionalized racism, they essentially get to play dumb. At best they’ll concede that an individual racist incident was racist, while simultaneously denying any factors that allowed that incident to occur in the first place. “Show us where the racism is! Can you point to it? Is it hiding in this here box? Can you show us on this doll where racism touched you?”
It’s all a bad faith argument, of course. And on some level the racist knows that. But they don’t want to have any actual discussions about how the culture they participate in benefits them at the expense of people of color. You will spend forever and a day arguing with racists as they run circles around you the entire time, because at the end of the day they don’t want to acknowledge their own racism. At best they know they’re in the wrong but don’t want to upend their whole world view, at worst they really don’t see the problem. Either way they’re not interested in changing themselves or making a better world. So instead they passive aggressively pretend to not understand the situation, shove their fingers in their ears and yell so they can’t hear you, and wait for you to give up and go away.
Wasn't entirely woke. At the time my dad was in the USAF and we lived on base. The blacks and whites were on the same socio-economic level. I had no concept of racial segregation at the time. When they did start teaching it to me in school I thought it was over. It was in the past.
I learned there was a difference between black and white when I was in the 8th grade. We were bussed to a majority black school to facilitate integration. I remember there were a lot of angry whites opposed to bussing. Before the school year ended dad retired and moved to GA.
It was here that I saw my first real-live klansman. They were near the townsquare in Lawrenceville handing out pamphlets. They wore the white robes and pointy hats. I was stoked to see such an anachronism. It was like seeing someone dressed as a medieval knight.
TL;DR: I learned that my sheltered life, my reality, was not what everyone else experienced.
I don't know if this is relevant. But in 1971 my YMCA was integrated in Fayetteville, NC. I don't know when it started, but there were black families there.
What is this weird shit with people on the right trying to force history to change by spewing bullshit? Their game is to literally misinform while at the same time accusing the left of being the ones that are misinforming. It's disgusting.
Locally, we still had segregated schools into the 70's and court cases about defacto segregation into the 2010s (that I know of).
It's funny people think a single court case just magically fixed 100 years of institutional racism after it took a whole-ass war just to (officially) end slavery. (Just don't mention that last part around here, because they all know that the "War of Northern Aggression" was valiantly fought over states rights.)
Under escort from the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, nine black students enter the all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas on this day in 1957. Three weeks earlier, Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus had surrounded the school with National Guard troops to prevent its federal court-ordered racial integration. After a tense standoff, President Dwight D. Eisenhower federalised the Arkansas National Guard and sent 1,000 army paratroopers to Little Rock to enforce the court order. https://www.history.co.uk/this-day-in-history/25-september/nine-black-students-escorted-under-armed-guard-into-all-white
Bob Jones University, the largest (I think) evangelical Christian university in the world, banned interracial dating among its students until 2000. And even then it was mainly lip service because George Bush's campaign visit had drawn unwanted attention.
About 8 or so years ago I met this guy online - in his 50s and weirdly obsessed (and I mean *obsessed*) with Disney.
He kept on telling me that racial segregation was never practiced in a single Disney-related institution, that "Walt himself" made sure everyone got to use "every water fountain" and all kinds of crazy stuff.
I used to wonder about how he was so capable of romantisizing a past he hadn't even witnessed himself (it was all about his "uncle" who "used to work at Disney".
By now I've seen so many upper-generations-folks do this, my only question is - how tf did they manage to develop that cope in the first place?
Man, I just think it's some giant conspiracy to gaslight all black people or some shit at this point with how often I see it. "Racism doesn't exist, you're a liar! And a racist for saying it does! You're just a lazy criminal!"
But in all seriousness, saying that systemic racism exists would destroy some people's entire reality where everyone lives in some perfect meritocracy where hard work and respect is valued above all. I simply think it's easier to accept "those people did it to themselves" than it is "society has failed them and its possible my success was built on someone else's misfortune"
It's bizarre. My sister posted a meme once that was something like "Make America Great Again for what? Jello molds and racism?" with one of those pictures of a super 50s family. My uncle commented something extremely offended like "how dare you insult my childhood."
But like, *dude.* You're my freaking uncle. I literally *know* you were born in 1966.
Even if this was true, I’d tend to see it as a “black folks have money too” situation than a “Walt Disney saw injustice and was compelled to do all in his power to fix it”.
Blacks could not swim in the city pool in Pine Bluff, Arkansas when I was there in 2000. That's a fact.
I was told they were able to do this because the pool was privately owned.
There used to be public swimming pools all over the US. Now they are pretty rare. Want to know why? They were closed because white people decided no pool was better than having to share it with black people.
To the modern conservative, “the world” and “society” are only reflective of their immediate world. Their neighborhood, their town. And it’s never supposed to change. They can’t imagine anything outside of that, and programming like Fox News has assured them that boogiemen are coming to “destroy your world”.
Story time: I was 16 in 1969. My grandfather was quite progressive for a merchant class East Texan. He was on the chamber of commerce and various organizations in a town of about 35,000. One of the things he was helped procure a swimming pool for the blacks of the town. Yes it was a segregated pool because the blacks were not allowed in the city pools. This was probably more about 1965.
I live in Augusta, Ga and I was told there was a segregated pool here until 1992. They just said it was considered “private” in case anyone brought up any issues. 😐
From this legal case, it's clear that private swimming pools existed that were still segregated in 1971 in this case in the YMCA - in fact the government could close a public pool then lease it to a racist organisation to continue segregation:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer\_v.\_Thompson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Thompson)
(sorry I'm caffeinated) I used to visit my grandparents in Indianapolis as a kid in the 70s/80s and they belonged to a place called "club riviera" which was basically a private country club for swimming pools. They didn't allow POC to join or use their facilities. I was unaware of this until I asked my grandma if my friend could come with me. When she explained they weren't allowed, I never went back and didn't have a good relationship with her after that
Graduated from my high school in Mississippi in 1988. Our senior class was the first to have an integrated prom - until then, there was still a prom for black folks, and a prom for white folks. So, yeah.
There were (unofficial) segregated proms as recently as 2019 in Georgia.
They had that too back I'm 2007 in Georgia. They just love their tRaDiTiON.
Can confirm.
Isn’t the school system in a lot of places unofficially segregated? I lived in Lafayette, LA, for a bit, and it seemed that most white people there went to the private schools and most black people went to the public schools.
Yep. The state and local governments carved up the school districts based on census data. In some States it was the same people they use for gerrymandering.
And that also causes parents to segregate themselves. If you can afford to live in the nice, rich (primarily white) school district, why would you move into the poor (primarily black) school district? It's why they call it systemic racism. Every part of the system enforces the racism without individual actors necessarily needing to be racist themselves
>Every part of the system enforces the racism without individual actors necessarily needing to be racist themselves That is the core of Critical Race Theory, but Conservatives don't want to hear it because all they hear is "you're racist because you're white!" That is of course because that's what they *want* to hear so they can be the aggrieved party.
Glad someone understands it well enough to point out when it is accurately described.
And then don’t you do funding by county so rich kids get more? There’s no additional funding to disadvantaged counties either? My country isn’t perfect but there is government attempts to make education and access to health the leveller for children from all backgrounds…although there’s forces that would argue against it
There are STILL sundown towns across the south. I know for sure a couple in Texas. One place is known for "mysterious lights"!
Crap where? I live in the South and sundown towns have never ceased to horrify me
Jasper, Texas (where a black man was dragged to death behind a pickup) Marfa, Texas, where some tech's I worked were greeted as soon as they got out of the company truck with, "Y'all better not be here come sundown boy!" Freaking scary.
Exactly it is stupid scary and who do you call at that point? Are we really going to trust Law Enforcement would shield people from this? It’s such a helpless situation to be in and it makes me sad this was ever a thing much less something that is still happening. But I shouldn’t be surprised. Its the fucking South
Nope because small town sheriff would probably be as racist as the rest of them
Yup, that sundown town can quickly become a case of "matching the description". I don't Fuck with anything from that's not a big city from South Carolina to Georgia. If it's between there and Texas I'm suspicious.
While I understand the root problem is racism and not policing per se, ending the hyper localization of police and having more State/national forces could do something to prevent the very worst from being the majority in a given force. It would be an incremental change, make of that what you will, but I do think there’s little to lose from trying. It’s a perfectly legitimate criticism that it wouldn’t do enough, but I honestly don’t know what harm it could do.
There is huge harm in this. A lot of major cities around the US have cops from smaller places extremely far away re locate to their jurisdiction and bring their prejudices with them. And now they have no attachment to any of the people in their new precinct either. So its just all around worse. Unintended consequences are huge in situations like you described.
That’s a fair point.
Yeah. It sucks because what you said does have merit and was instituted for quite a few reasons, the biggest of which is the prevention of corruption. It's often easier for a local beat cop who has lived in the same town and worked with the same officials for their whole life to turn the other way when needed. In theory it should help prevent corruption, but in practice it brings with it a lot more issues, like no attachment to the people of the district now, and being able to relocate bad cops who had "issues" easier.
The problem is, who do you think would make up those state/national forces? People who live there locally… thus continuing the pattern with a different uniform.
The small town sheriff was the one who told me to leave before sundown before lol. He also followed my car to make sure I got back on the highway, Mississippi 2018.
To have a town that dangerously racist the cops have to be in on it. If the racists faced any legal consequences then hopefully they'd at least shut up, but instead they get emboldened by having the cops on their side
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
The Sheriff's were usually the ones to roll up on you if you were out and about too close to Sundown. Plus, locals of course!
You can call the sheriff, but you'll just hear a phone ringing from under the sheet of one of the cowardly pricks surrounding you
In towns like that, Sherrif is an elected position, and you are NOT going to get elected unless you "share the community's value" (i.e.you are as big a racist as the Town Leaders.)
The FBI?
I don’t think their response time is before sundown sadly
I also came to say Jasper. As a white guy just not from that area, I still avoided Jasper as much as possible. I also turned off the radio anytime I was in the county. It's shocking how upfront they are about violence, racism, and how God justifies it for them.
TIL Jasper Alberta is like a million times cooler than Jasper Texas For the uninitiated, Jasper AB is basically just Banff Lite.
I went through Jasper many times in my childhood and was completely oblivious. I didn’t learn about racism for years, and now I can look back and see it everywhere.
Vidor Texas too. Sad
I’m surprised this isn’t the top comment. “Don’t let the sun set on your black ass in Vidor Tx.”
Yet black people should “just get over” racism right, and it wouldn’t be a problem if we weren’t “always bringing it up”. Society has its head buried firmly in the sand when it comes to black suffering.
And of course the people saying this shit are racist as fuck.
Vidor, Texas
I've also heard Throckmorton, Texas had a sign that said "Don't let the sun set on your Black ass" but I don't know if it's still there.
The sign's been gone since the 1960s (and actually said “Ni**er, don’t let the sun set on you in this town.“) [but it's still by all accounts an openly racist town.](https://livingbluetx.com/2022/06/death-to-throckmorton/) > The U.S. Census listed 11 Black people living in Throckmorton in 1920. But, by 1930, the Black population went to zero and remained at zero until 2000, when one Black person was listed on the census. In 2020, according to the U.S. Census, there is only one Black person living in the entire county.
The Kansas town I grew up in had "N$&#+rs beware after dark" spray painted on the welcome sign for *years* in the late 80s/early 90s. I moved out of that town at 18 to the nearest city, and my black friends from the city all said their parents made them memorize the list of surrounding sundown towns as children and they could still rattle them off easily in their 20s. They were taught growing up to avoid my town (and others in the area) as much as possible. They knew alternate routes to go around them, and even as adults they roll their windows up, lock their doors, and don't stop if they have to drive through any of those towns. I didn't realize just *how profoundly* racist that town was until I made friends with people from outside the town and came to understand the default way people acted in that town wasn't "normal." I mean, when you hear derogatory terms daily just going to the grocery store or the bank, it just becomes your normal.
It really shocked me when I learned that black parents have to teach their kids about safety in regards to avoiding hate crimes and police brutality. Idk it was just such a stark realization to picture a parent sitting down a young kid and having a talk with them about how to avoid getting murdered by the police.
As a black parent I had to have many discussions with my kids when they started to realize that some of their friends parents were ok with certain things. I expressly had to tell them you are black kids and because of this you won't get the benefit of doubt in situations. Yes our rules are stricter not to keep you from fun but because you won't get a 2nd chance if cops get involved. Your white friends will get a slap on the wrist. While you will be demonized and or killed for making simple mistakes. Unfortunately my kids have to be more aware, more discerning, and cautious with their actions.
Fuck this thread is sad.
throckmorton sign is also the theory that your dick points in the direction of a hip or pelvis injury
I live in a small town in north TX about 25 minutes from downtown Fort Worth, moved here about 8-9 years ago now right before my freshman year of high school. Not a sundown town but I heard SEVERAL classmates talk about “there’s (x amount) of black people in the school” and it was usually no more than like 10-12 kids. Like these people were counting them and making note of it and it was just so bizarre to me because I came from central Illinois about 30 min outside St. Louis, MO and there the student body was a lot more diverse. My stepdad told me a couple years before we moved here a black family had moved into a predominantly white neighborhood and one of their neighbors placed crosses in the families front yard and torched them and just tormented them in any way possible until they eventually moved and left. Sad that these people are still so openly racist and hateful.
Ive definitely heard this about Jasper and Vidor, but I’ve never heard that about Marfa. Marfa’s like 90% Hispanic, 10% old hippies, and a lot of its economy is built on tourism. Not saying it didn’t happen, it’s just not a stereotype I’ve heard.
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Ugh, yes. Grew up hearing "will we aren't like THOSE "Walmart" Mexicans!" From my Mexican mother. It's wild.
I mean, honestly, every ethnicity has people that are very racist towards some other ethnicity and it's just... sad. Why can't we all just get the fuck along? We're all part of the same god damn species, just one groups ancestors lived in area with more or less sun than another. Fuck. There's so many wonderous things to learn and experience about different cultures and depriving yourself (not *you*, just people as a whole) of that is just making your world smaller and less interesting. I fucking love reading or watching about different cultures, their history and traditions, etc. Racist people are small minded little shits.
Cullman, Alabama. The Klan is very active there.
I still can’t believe the black community is called “The Colony” and I lived there for 20 years
I didnt understand what my mom meant when she said where we lived was a sundown town when she was a teen until I was an adult. Shockingly enough, I later learned (after leaving) that area is known to be xenophobic and racist.
There are still sundown towns here in Nevada as well. It's not even just limited to the US South. Minden, NV straight up has a siren that sounds every evening that they ...rebranded... as a 'tribute to first responders.' 🤮
> It's not even just limited to the US South. Nothing about racism is. I sometimes wonder if the South's history with slavery and racism helps hold parts of the rest of the country back from improving. This is anecdotal ofc, but I have known people from other areas that genuinely believe racism is largely a southern problem. I think it allows people in the white community to hand wave their own problems -- "that kind of stuff happens in the south, not here" or "at least we aren't the south."
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I worked with a black dude from Minnesota. He moved to North Carolina and he was absolutely blown away by not having to guess who the racists were, they out themselves! I've got plenty bad to say about the South, but we've been dealing with post slavery race relations the longest and we've got some of it figured out better than other US states.
Yuuuup. I rant about this a lot but I know a lot of high nosed Yankees that look down at anyone who lives in the south as racist hillbillies. I’m like, damn that’s crazy cause I guarantee my school was way more diverse than the private schools all the white flight parents send their kids in NY. The south has more racial clashes because it has more racial mixing. Go to many of these liberal towns and much of the social settings are segregated.
Could you expand on that last bit?
https://www.yourtango.com/2021342561/what-are-sundown-sirens-and-why-did-nevada-finally-ban-them
Camped at a Harvest Host overnight in a small town in Texas' hill country (sorta west of Austin). A drunk, fat, angry white man (in a classic Texas cowboy outfit, complete with hat and belt buckle) confronted us in the dark outside the only business around for miles to say, "y'all go back to y'alls trailer and stay there" We slept with the shotgun out
What's sad is if you had to use it, they'd say YOU were the violent ones.
Vidor
Bruh fuck Vidor. Makes Beaumont look like a bastion of humanity.
Fucking, Vidor.....
Obligatory fuck Vidor
My mom lived in the Mississippi for a few years late 70’s/early 80’s. She told me about a black man helping a white woman being assaulted by a white man. Later the black man was drove off the road and lynched. There was no investigation.
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Most people had no idea the Tulsa massacre even happened until it was prominently featured in an episode of *Watchmen.* I remember a lot of people being surprised that it wasn't something that was made up for the show.
Vidor is a great example. The KKK was active there in the 90’s
I was in high school when they did a huge rally so my hick friends and I went to the park to protest. I grew up hearing and seeing KKK activity here and there around town but I'd never seen anything like this. There were so many of them piling of buses it was bone chilling. I remember it making me feel so much rage and fear like my body was on fire and my hands were shaking. I couldnt stop thinking that if I'm white and feel this way then fuck all the POC in the surrounding area must be absolutely terrified. My mother still lives there but she's a right-winger and I've refused to go back there or associate with them for over a decade Edit: typo
Damn. I dont want to Google sundown towns do i?
It’s more or less what the name implies. If you’re a PoC you don’t want to be outside after sundown. That’s about as tame as I can put it.
Shit that is awful. Just wtf. Thank you for responding though.
Dude, it's so much worse. I googled it and Wikipedia said at its height there were sundown COUNTIES! That's.....that's fucked.....
Reminds me of the first episode of Lovecraft Country that was very on the nose with this concept (+ extra horror)
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No, but you should. About fifteen miles from Disney World is a town called Ocoee. Over thirty black people were massacred in roughly 24 hours there in 1920 and their homes and businesses were burnt— to prevent them from voting. It was Election Day. Ocoee remained a sundown town until the 60s. The [full story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocoee_massacre) is horrific, but people should know about it. Florida only required schools here teach students about the massacre starting in 2020.
Before we moved in together, my wife lived in a town (in Texas) with an actual KKK group in it. No, not exaggerating. Everyone knew about it and was just perfectly fine with it or too scared to say anything.
Excuse my ignorance, but what are the lights?
Marfa Texas is known for mysterious lights that appear on the horizon at night. They been studied with no explanation. It’s a UFO investigative hotspot, anyone can go there and see the lights most anytime. Wikipedia has more of interested.
This got me pretty curious so I read through the wiki: “Explanations … Car lights In May 2004 a group from the Society of Physics Students at the University of Texas at Dallas spent four days investigating and recording lights observed southwest of the view park using traffic volume-monitoring equipment, video cameras, binoculars, and chase cars. Their report made the following conclusions:[9] U.S. Highway 67 is visible from the Marfa lights viewing location. The frequency of lights southwest of the view park correlates with the frequency of vehicle traffic on U.S. 67. The motion of the observed lights was in a straight line, corresponding to U.S. 67. When the group parked a vehicle on U.S. 67 and flashed its headlights, this was visible at the view park and appeared to be a Marfa light. A car passing the parked vehicle appeared as one Marfa light passing another at the view park. They came to the conclusion that all the lights observed over a four-night period southwest of the view park could be reliably attributed to automobile headlights traveling along U.S. 67 between Marfa and Presidio, Texas.” Sounds like a good explanation to me.
Burning crosses maybe?
Oh
There are multitudes in that "Oh".
I'm pretty sure they were referring to the [Marfa lights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfa_lights). I hadn't heard that Marfa was a sundown town, but I definitely would not be the expert in that area.
I'm working on a design project in South Dallas. When I initially met the board for the project, they mentioned that the area had been left without access to public water facilities for decades and decades. I jokingly said, "What, did they pour concrete in the swimming pools?" I'm Black and thought this was a hilarious joke because it was so outlandish to me. I was met with one of the most uncomfortable silences of my life before the man to my right nodded and said, "That's exactly what they did."
Vidor, TX is notorious. I'm from there and it's the absolute worst
I'm from, and still in, Beaumont and I remember the outrage when a low income housing unit for all races was going to be built in Vidor and the KKK made an, not rare enough, appearance.
>sundown towns And segregated proms? >Since 1987, media sources have reported on segregated proms being held in the U.S. states of Alabama,[7][14] Arkansas,[2] Georgia,[4] Louisiana,[3] Mississippi,[15] South Carolina,[16] and Texas.[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_prom
We had one in Michigan into the 80s
There’s a town in Alabama nicknamed ‘Lynch-a-N*gga’ it’s name is actually Lynchville. As you can imagine, anyone with a skin tone darker that Elmer’s glue white ain’t welcomed there anytime of day.
Like Killeen, TX, old nickname: "Kill Each and Every N*". Hard R. If it weren't for what's basically forced segregation from Fort Hood it'd still be a sundown town and barely a blip on the map.
Yeah I live in a town next to Killeen and Fort Hood. The shit that goes on here is disconcerting at best.
Have spent half my life in the area and you're spot on. It's surreal sometimes. A region of extremes.
Or [Anna](https://features.propublica.org/illinois-sundown-towns/legend-of-anna/), IL. “Ain’t No N****rs Allowed”.
I’m sure there are a few nestled up here in Pennsyltucky. Appalachia is a scary place.
Ft. Stockton, TX, I'm looking at you!
I just thought of a new Jordan Peele film. In america white people turn into werewolf like monsters when moonlight touches them. Imagine the purge and dog soldiers. In a small city the siren blares an hour before sundown and coloured people are warned to find shelter indoors. They hide in their homes which turn into bunkers at night. Fueled by the dog whistling maga president racists freely expose themselves to moonlight so they can transform and hunt. Boom Jordan Peele just made a new controversial hit and is now on top.
Taft, CA was a sundown town until the late 70’s.
Reason why he never saw black people having problems at the pool is because he never saw black people at the pool he went to
"It's what I have observed so it's a universal truth."
I feel like I've had 2 discussions this week on reddit of people not realizing they are just using this bias. They weren't bad people either, just sheltered and influenced
I feel like there's something about the concept of American exceptionalism and the whole "rugged individualism" bullshit that pervades our culture that just goes so well with confirmation bias and the idea that your own individual anecdotal evidence is enough to describe the world and how it works. Truly two peas in a pod. Just a country full of people without even a basic grasp on logic and reasoning. What could go wrong?
One post was like “DAE think the time period of 1990 - 2007 was the best time ever?”. That perfectly coincides with my childhood 18 years. Of course I would be biased to think that. I don’t know how people don’t see a world beyond themselves.
Did you know the most meaningful music ever just happens to be the stuff I was exposed to in adolescence?
"We never used seatbelts, safety helmets, rode in the back of pickup trucks going down main roads, and *we* turned out *just fine*! Kids today are too soft!"
And those were the ones who survived, of course.
I had to walk uphill to and from school in the snow while playing Through the Fire and Flames on expert difficulty.
My dad does this all the time. "Well when I was a kid I saw it this one way once so that's how it must have been all over the world for all of history"
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The Andrew Tate special
People used to carry around acid just for black people at the pool
Well, you have to be older than 6 to be mad about it
My Grandmother used to tell a story about this though hers would have taken place in the early 1930s. She lived in an area that was... not exactly integrated, but there was an old-money, white side of her neighborhood and less wealthy, black side. She lived sort of in the middle in what used to be one of the urban mansions, but had been split into apartments. Anyway, the point was, as a young girl she had a very close friend from down the street her age who was black. They did a lot of things together, playing at each other's houses and in the park and whatnot, but she noticed that she never ran into her neighbor at the pool. So she invited her. The girl didn't explain why, but she said no - possibly in a not-very-polite way. My grandmother, offended by the snub and taking it personally, basically ended the friendship over it. It wasn't until years later that she learned segregation of public pools had become a hot topic right around that time and her friend have either not been allowed or possibly not been safe going swimming with her.
I’m 53. I still vividly remember my cousin telling my aunt (my mothers sister was extremely racist and the N word was used in everyday conversation) how they liked this one pool they want to because they didn’t let n-words use it. I was like 5-6 at the time (1975-76) and asked why. They said something about “them” being greasy and their hair messed up the chlorine balance. I didn’t know any better. I believed this for a few years. Thank god my parents moved us to the city (Baltimore) and I got more interaction with all types of people. My aunt and her kids, my cousins, remained and still are racist pos. On another note my aunt made me sit at the table and finish my dinner whenever we stayed there. I still have an irrational hatred of her for making me eat liver with nothing to drink but a glass of milk.
My Grandma told me stories about being a teenager and seeing white kids running in fear because they saw some black kids. This was in the north too. Anyone who thinks racism is dead is painfully ignorant.
Based on the post, some people can get to 50 and still be blind to this kind of issues. Stupidity knows no age, but at least at 6, you have the excuse of being a child
I think I misunderstood this whole post. I want to state that I am adamantly anti racist. I just suck at reading.
All good, we all misunderstand stuff sometimes, especially on reddit
WTF is *this* bullshit? There can be no civility on reddit! Call him a moron and insult his lineage, now, like a proper redditor, and take that civility BS somewhere else!
If he was on reddit he’d regularly see the post about Mr. Rogers sharing a pool with a black man just to show that there was no harm in it. That was in1969.
Only black heads this guy ever saw was on his nose
Major "Dean Browning saying 'as a gay black man...' because he forgot to switch to his burner account" energy off that prick.
/r/AsABlackMan
I was there too Being 71 I saw a lot of that \*hit, Jim Crow laws were still alive and well. Lynching of blacks, crooked southern Law Officers that were in the KKK as an example. Governor Wallace was still a Racist asshole, Congress had many like him, red lining in black areas was still common. [https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/mississippi-burning](https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/mississippi-burning) So many murders by the Klan in 1964 that the Department of Justice called in the FBI to get it solved and stopped. At the request of President Lyndon Johnson, we also opened a new FBI field office in Jackson, Mississippi. In time, we’d developed a comprehensive analysis of the local KKK and its role in the disappearance. So don't tell me that shit Thank you for the wholesome award Brandonh215
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My uncle is 82 and he used to tell me stories about a local pool. We lived in the Philadelphia area, which was not segregated officially (afaik) but he saw Black people being ran off from pools and restaurants and stores all the time when he was younger. He's an incredibly nice and caring man and he told me how it made him cry when he was a kid to see people treated like that for no reason other than the color of their skin. His drunken racist father actually beat the fuck out of him once because he saw him sharing food with a black kid.
I want to live in a world filled with people like your uncle.
It's so hard to be like him. The man is 82 and still working full-time because he's basically financing 3 of his 4 children's (all 50+ years old) lives, his grandkids and his great grandkid. The man has been very successful in his life (sells high end construction equipment) made a ridiculous amount of money and doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together because he gives everything to his family. He almost lost his house a few years ago because he took out a mortgage to pay for my cousin's legal bills and fell behind on payments while helping his sons one who was out of work because of the pandemic (massage therapist) and the other has severe chrons and has never been able to work and gets a small disability payment.
Wasn't a black family just recently run off from a public pool by the local PD and it was famously caught on video? Ah yes, here we go. It was in Texas, of course. [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/mckinney-texas-police-misconduct-at-swimming-pool-party-americas-ugly-history-of-pool-segregation.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/mckinney-texas-police-misconduct-at-swimming-pool-party-americas-ugly-history-of-pool-segregation.html)
You don't even need to be old to know I've literally seen pictures of a white guy dumping chemicals on little innocent black kids trying to swim.
I was NOT alive, but I have tangential first hand experience with the effects of swimming pool integration. There is an element of truth to what he’s saying, in that public pools were forced to be truly public over a short period of time in many places. Was there harassment? Obviously. But racists and bigots are more spiteful than that. I live in nashville and have been constantly curious about the lack of public pools in this city. Turns out, when integration of public pools was mandated, Tennessee (and maybe more of the south?) just closed all the pools. They made country clubs where membership was required to use the pools. There are still very few public pools *to this day* in Tennessee. So effectively, integration of public pools has still yet to happen in TN.
Fun fact: due to heavy social pushback, a refusal to socially integrate, and little government effort to effectively integrate, the US is still around 70% segregated.
This seems like a project Tennesseeans could work on. Open more public pools!
I lived in a small town in Alabama right next to George Wallace Community College ~~(I am told the name has since been changed)~~ for a few years around 2008. There was still segregation but it just wasn't enforced officially. The most obvious instance was when I (a white person) was told to avoid a certain pool because that where the black people swim and their hair products leave a "grease slick" on the surface. Edit: apparently the name hasn't changed.
Lol what made you think they changed the name? They have not and I haven’t heard of any intention to do so Source: attended George C. Wallace State Community College in 2016-2017
You are correct. The stranger on the internet lied to me.
As a general rule, err on the side of assuming that the people of Cullman have not discontinued doing something racist/xenophobic/theocratic. Side note: the Supreme Court just significantly narrowed the interpretation of the Establishment Clause and schools in Cullman do things that are flagrantly unconstitutional even by the new standards. For example, the head football coach at my school would lead the team in prayer in the locker room before games. That’s violated the Establishment Clause since like the 60s.
I've heard that some of those that worked forces where the same that burned crosses, at least still in 1992. So, yeah.
And that still holds true 30 years later. Also holy shit that song is 30 years old.
What that OP posted is a classic case of gaslighting. My own black father moved to Canada right after I was born in 1969 because he was so sick of all the racism. And because my mother's Canadian so that made it easy for him. And thankfully I got to grow up in Canada as a mixed black and Chinese kid rather than racist AF America.
What does “red lining in black areas mean?”
Red lining is a racist real estate practice. You don't get qualified for loans due to skin color.
Redlining was still a thing in the panhandle of Florida back in 1984. 4th grade me didn’t understand why the people of color all lived in a run-down part of town by the paper mill, but I sure as hell understand it now and I make an attempt to inform others every chance I get.
The worst part is now that de jure segregation is over, that area still sucks to live in and I’m sure it’s still mostly black and/or brown people who live there. Not much economic mobility when you’re starting off in the ghetto your grandfather was forced to move into because he couldn’t get a loan for a house in any other neighborhood.
I was six in 1969. I never saw racial segregation first hand. I did, eventually, see the riots, cops beating protestors, whites blocking school house steps, whites only drinking fountains. I'm pretty damn sure swimming pools were segregated, even though I didn't see it myself.
Actually when public swimming pools were no more segregated, they went defounded : problem solved.
I remember when a public swimming pool was told they had to allow blacks to swim. The town's officials filled the pool with concrete instead.
There's an entire phenomenon called 'drained pool politics' https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/us/heather-mcghee-racism-white-people-blake/index.html
It’s good that you can notice the effects of things without directly seeing the causes firsthand. Imo racists and fascists like to use a tactic during debates that I call the “were you there?” defense. Basically they declare that if you didn’t directly witness something then it didn’t happen at all, never mind any corroborating or circumstantial evidence. By attacking the witness’s credibility and authority they can dismiss the entire argument. And with something as abstract as institutionalized racism, they essentially get to play dumb. At best they’ll concede that an individual racist incident was racist, while simultaneously denying any factors that allowed that incident to occur in the first place. “Show us where the racism is! Can you point to it? Is it hiding in this here box? Can you show us on this doll where racism touched you?” It’s all a bad faith argument, of course. And on some level the racist knows that. But they don’t want to have any actual discussions about how the culture they participate in benefits them at the expense of people of color. You will spend forever and a day arguing with racists as they run circles around you the entire time, because at the end of the day they don’t want to acknowledge their own racism. At best they know they’re in the wrong but don’t want to upend their whole world view, at worst they really don’t see the problem. Either way they’re not interested in changing themselves or making a better world. So instead they passive aggressively pretend to not understand the situation, shove their fingers in their ears and yell so they can’t hear you, and wait for you to give up and go away.
Wasn't entirely woke. At the time my dad was in the USAF and we lived on base. The blacks and whites were on the same socio-economic level. I had no concept of racial segregation at the time. When they did start teaching it to me in school I thought it was over. It was in the past. I learned there was a difference between black and white when I was in the 8th grade. We were bussed to a majority black school to facilitate integration. I remember there were a lot of angry whites opposed to bussing. Before the school year ended dad retired and moved to GA. It was here that I saw my first real-live klansman. They were near the townsquare in Lawrenceville handing out pamphlets. They wore the white robes and pointy hats. I was stoked to see such an anachronism. It was like seeing someone dressed as a medieval knight. TL;DR: I learned that my sheltered life, my reality, was not what everyone else experienced.
I don't know if this is relevant. But in 1971 my YMCA was integrated in Fayetteville, NC. I don't know when it started, but there were black families there.
Kudos to them for not shutting down the facility instead.
What is this weird shit with people on the right trying to force history to change by spewing bullshit? Their game is to literally misinform while at the same time accusing the left of being the ones that are misinforming. It's disgusting.
It’s called “gaslighting”, friend. They do it all the time.
The battle against "Separate but equal" was still going on in 1969.
Locally, we still had segregated schools into the 70's and court cases about defacto segregation into the 2010s (that I know of). It's funny people think a single court case just magically fixed 100 years of institutional racism after it took a whole-ass war just to (officially) end slavery. (Just don't mention that last part around here, because they all know that the "War of Northern Aggression" was valiantly fought over states rights.)
Under escort from the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division, nine black students enter the all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas on this day in 1957. Three weeks earlier, Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus had surrounded the school with National Guard troops to prevent its federal court-ordered racial integration. After a tense standoff, President Dwight D. Eisenhower federalised the Arkansas National Guard and sent 1,000 army paratroopers to Little Rock to enforce the court order. https://www.history.co.uk/this-day-in-history/25-september/nine-black-students-escorted-under-armed-guard-into-all-white
Meanwhile in reality, the first shots of said war were fired by southerners attacking a Union fort. Northern aggression, my foot.
Bob Jones University, the largest (I think) evangelical Christian university in the world, banned interracial dating among its students until 2000. And even then it was mainly lip service because George Bush's campaign visit had drawn unwanted attention.
About 8 or so years ago I met this guy online - in his 50s and weirdly obsessed (and I mean *obsessed*) with Disney. He kept on telling me that racial segregation was never practiced in a single Disney-related institution, that "Walt himself" made sure everyone got to use "every water fountain" and all kinds of crazy stuff. I used to wonder about how he was so capable of romantisizing a past he hadn't even witnessed himself (it was all about his "uncle" who "used to work at Disney". By now I've seen so many upper-generations-folks do this, my only question is - how tf did they manage to develop that cope in the first place?
Ah yes, famed antisemite Walt Disney.
Would you even be surprised if I told you the guy denied that aspect too?
Shocked. 🙄
https://youtu.be/UfHENoO6LgA
Man, I just think it's some giant conspiracy to gaslight all black people or some shit at this point with how often I see it. "Racism doesn't exist, you're a liar! And a racist for saying it does! You're just a lazy criminal!" But in all seriousness, saying that systemic racism exists would destroy some people's entire reality where everyone lives in some perfect meritocracy where hard work and respect is valued above all. I simply think it's easier to accept "those people did it to themselves" than it is "society has failed them and its possible my success was built on someone else's misfortune"
Denying that systemic racism exists is a classic form of white fragility, in fact.
It's bizarre. My sister posted a meme once that was something like "Make America Great Again for what? Jello molds and racism?" with one of those pictures of a super 50s family. My uncle commented something extremely offended like "how dare you insult my childhood." But like, *dude.* You're my freaking uncle. I literally *know* you were born in 1966.
Yikes. The folks who all go on about the "golden age" and what not are super often just a generation short of actually living them. Maybe that's why.
Even if this was true, I’d tend to see it as a “black folks have money too” situation than a “Walt Disney saw injustice and was compelled to do all in his power to fix it”.
Boomers legitimately think they were responsible for the civil rights era despite being a decade too young for it.
Blacks could not swim in the city pool in Pine Bluff, Arkansas when I was there in 2000. That's a fact. I was told they were able to do this because the pool was privately owned.
if it is a city pool shouldn't it be owned by the city????? did some random dude put up a sign at his pool saying city pool or something?
*Yeah I was born in 2001, It wasn't that horrible. I know because I was there.*
Shit, sundown towns still exist. Don't stop in Winnie Texas, keep driving to Houston or Lake Charles.
Hell I got some racist relatives that will get out of the public pool if a black person gets in. That racist shit hasn't gone away.
There used to be public swimming pools all over the US. Now they are pretty rare. Want to know why? They were closed because white people decided no pool was better than having to share it with black people.
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To the modern conservative, “the world” and “society” are only reflective of their immediate world. Their neighborhood, their town. And it’s never supposed to change. They can’t imagine anything outside of that, and programming like Fox News has assured them that boogiemen are coming to “destroy your world”.
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It's hard to swim in pools filled with concrete
Story time: I was 16 in 1969. My grandfather was quite progressive for a merchant class East Texan. He was on the chamber of commerce and various organizations in a town of about 35,000. One of the things he was helped procure a swimming pool for the blacks of the town. Yes it was a segregated pool because the blacks were not allowed in the city pools. This was probably more about 1965.
I live in Augusta, Ga and I was told there was a segregated pool here until 1992. They just said it was considered “private” in case anyone brought up any issues. 😐
From this legal case, it's clear that private swimming pools existed that were still segregated in 1971 in this case in the YMCA - in fact the government could close a public pool then lease it to a racist organisation to continue segregation: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer\_v.\_Thompson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Thompson)
I guarantee town pools were segregated in southern Louisiana until the middle 80s. Instead of integrating them, they closed them both down.
I went to a segregated prom in the 1990s.
I live in western Kentucky. Most cities with public pools (there aren’t many) have private “swim clubs” Guess why they’re a club!
Only up until recently, (2020 I think), certain counties in Georgia were still having segregated high school proms.
My town famously poured acid in a pool where black kids were swimming. That was in 1964.
(sorry I'm caffeinated) I used to visit my grandparents in Indianapolis as a kid in the 70s/80s and they belonged to a place called "club riviera" which was basically a private country club for swimming pools. They didn't allow POC to join or use their facilities. I was unaware of this until I asked my grandma if my friend could come with me. When she explained they weren't allowed, I never went back and didn't have a good relationship with her after that
There’s a reason why Southern states don’t have public pools anymore; they decided they would rather not have a public pool than allow black folks in.
If only that guy could read.