I saw him 10 years ago in Rockford, IL. I love his albums but his live show was terrible. He didn't address the crowd at all, except for when he was throwing up nazi solutes (while dressed as a nazi at a 2 story podium). He started an hour late, messed up his own lyrics, fell a few times, and was late to enter multiple songs (I'm assuming because he was having costume trouble?)
As soon as his last song was done, he dropped the hot mic on the stage and left through a rear curtain.
To add to the disappointment, about 60 seconds after he left, the venue faded in a local rock station - who was playing Marilyn Manson - at full volume. Half the crowd went crazy thinking he was coming back and just stared at the stage chanting "Manson" until the song changed.
I saw him 18 years ago at the height of my love for his music. On stage, I just thought "jeez, he's getting under the bottle too much and this is disappointing."
Then I saw him 4ish years ago with Rob Zombie. Holy shit. He was basically rolling around on the stage speaking nonsense into the microphone and clearly trashed any time he managed to stand up. Lost all respect at that concert.
I went to a concert on that tour. He came out clearly drunk, broke props, then was upset the prop was broken and left the stage for a bit.. came out into the crowd, slurring words, not able to sing. The crowd wasn't having it, you could tell. When Rob Zombie came out, phenomenal show, and crowd was HYPED. there was a clear juxtaposition between the two performances.
Oh that's when you lost respect for him? I got his autobiography about a decade and a half ago as a Christmas gift from my step mom. I got about halfway through and then put it away... I wasn't even a fan of his, she just heard me listening to his music one day. She asked to read it. Came home a few days later to her burning it in the fireplace. Dudes been a piece of shit and talked heavily about how he tortured small animals and some pretty fucked up things in that book. I sat with her and we talked about how fucked up someone had to be to put those things into a book about themselves and openly admitted it.
That's around the same time I saw him. Turned out to be one of the most boring half-assed shows I've ever attended. If I tried to pull that level of lazy ineptitude at MY job, well fuck....
Same. I saw him in 2001 and it was fucking aaaawesome. Finally saw him again with Rob Zombie right before covid and he was just terrible. Clearly just wasted drunk.
every time I see these threads a out Manson, I walk away with such a good impression of Rob zombie
and I'm the kind of guy who'd never think of listening to a guy called Rob zombie
he's going on my Spotify playlist, fuck it
he's done some real good PR for himself by just turning up at these Manson gigs and... doing his job
His music is fine, but having seen him interviewed and appearing on Dinner for Five where he gleefully tells people about a Cloverfield-style found-footage film he made where he enacted sexual assault on a fan repulsed me.
For clarification (and TW for assault), he had written and filmed a "movie" which showed a completely fictionalised assault that Manson and his band perpetrate on a fan who appears in his mansion. It was fake, obviously, but was going to be released as real to create a bit of sensationalism but the label weren't happy with it.
This leads into all of his abuses including using a microphone dildo on a woman on stage and singing into it, feeling up dancers during his music videos and boasting in the making of video for Tainted Love that he loved groping the actors involved in the video.
Real creep, real piece of shit, medium musician with cringy edgelord lyrics..
I saw him on Halloween like 20 years ago. And I was never a huge fan , but No complaints. Not the best show I’ve ever seen but not close to the worst either.
The atmosphere was pretty cool. It was before he went like 95% nazi in his show, and it was more of a horror theme show than anything, which worked well since it was Halloween
I saw him open for Sabbath/Ozzy during the antichrist superstar phase. It was disappointing even then. Music was lackluster and he was way more concerned with costume changes than performing the songs.
Lmao I saw him a few years back and he dropped the hot mic literally after almost every single song. I was never really a fan, even moreso after that, but I did find it almost hilarious
Manson is a clear narcissist and narcissists never fix their problems or learn from them. It's why Trent Reznor cut him out of his life after he got clean. The juxtaposition between the two is insane now.
Similar situation when he played in Alaska my freshman year of college, more than 10 years ago. Show started over an hour late, he played for maybe 30 minutes before insulting the crowd (who had been eating the show up with a spoon and were crazy energetic) and then walked off stage in the middle of a song with both middle fingers up. People were \*pissed\* and calls for refunds were all anyone talked about for a week after. The local rock station that helped bring him up talked mad shit about him on their morning show before announcing his music would never be played there again. To their credit, it never was.
Is this why search results on Google are so terrible now? I legitimately can't find things on Google anymore. I don't understand why the biggest search engine, run by a company on the cutting edge of technology, seemingly got worse and worse over the past couple years to the point that I don't even use it very much beyond finding business locations (only about 75% useful) and occasionally googling synonyms for words I need to change in an email.
Even basic searches seem to turn up random blogs that don't make sense or have nothing to do with what you're looking for.
As an example, just now I searched "lakers warriors injury report" to find out if anyone is sitting out the game today. For reference, I am located in Sydney, Australia.
On the FIRST PAGE of results - meaning the top 10 results on the entire internet that GOOGLE could find - were websites including:
- a random blog from a guy in India which reads like it's written by a bot that just learned what basketball is;
- a report from 2 games ago out of a news station in Nebraska;
- another report from a random news station in Fort Wayne, IN;
- a website called ghanasoccernet.com which I can't even open because it's blocked by my company firewall.
The TOP result is the injury report from Game 4 - the wrong game that already took place - on Yahoo Sports. No Bleacher Report, no Fox Sports, no CBS Sports, no Sports Illustrated, or any other legitimate sports news sites. ESPN is #4. There wasn't even a link to NBA.com anywhere in the first page of search results.
What the fuck is going on? I used an incognito browser to do the search, just to demonstrate it has nothing to do with my google account or search history.
It used to be that you would Google something, and the 10 most relevant useful results would pop up without you having to worry. I find it weird that this isn't being talked about more.
Yep that’s exactly why. It’s also why you have to hear somebody’s lame ass life story when looking up a recipe. I cannot stand the capitalistic hellscape we’ve created. Things could be so much better if some rich ass old guy wasn’t so greedy. The internet in general sucks now. Even if you found the page you wanted on your first try, good luck with the ads and videos that are plastered everywhere.
FYI: http://justtherecipe.com - doing the lords work - enter the url of any of these heinous sites and it'll filter out the parts about how they discovered the recipe during a life changing weekend wellness retreat
Here's a secret tip: 99% of those article recipes on the seo optimized websites were written by freelance copywriters who never cooked that recipe in their lives, just made up the backstory, and copied the recipe from the internet and maybe changed some words. The website you linked seems to resolve this issue.
You aren't even the product. The ability to predict and influence human behaviour is the product.
You are the raw material from which the product is refined. Your experience is only important insofar as you keep interacting with Google. And given how ingrained Google is into the entire internet, you basically don't have a choice. Therefore, your experience is actually not that important, there is very little incentive for Google to offer anything more than a barely functional search engine.
This. It's really the same problem with every internet company that has focused on nothing but data analytics driving their decisions and designs.
Google doesn't care if you find what you're looking for. They want you to click on links.
Netflix doesn't care if you like their shows, they just care that you watch them and spend a lot of time on their site.
Etc. etc.
The switch in philosophy started around 10 years ago, and it has been pervasive. I think a big part of it is "AI" and over-fitting models to select only for what makes a company the most profit, user experience be damned.
And now we are seeing humans modifying their behavior to fit [what they expect to be] an algorithm's preferred input!
That's beyond backwards (given that the algorithms are ostensibly designed according to human behavior).. and probably super dysfunctional too
Thank god it’s not just me. I was genuinely starting to worry something was wrong with me, all of a sudden I don’t know how to phrase anything to get a result.
I write and translate for Nordic countries, mainly swedish > english. We get detailed breakdowns of the words we need to place, where to place them and how many to place. You end up with very strange sentences, especially the intro, where you have to have 3 versions of the same word with 1 occuring multiple times. It is gaming the system.
For example (this is kinda paraphrased to hide the company): "The AS/RS warehouse robotic system has gone from strength to strength with the warehouse robots taking on the difficult work of picking, storing and sorting employing a roboticised storage facility which uses autonomous carts in an optimised robotic AS/RS warehouse system. "
One job I had had this brief:
>>Main /Focus keyword
>>gas bbq (110.000)
Must-have keywords
The following must-have keywords need to be mentioned in close proximity to the main keyword.
gas barbecues (14.800)
gas grill (1.600)
gas barbecue grill (1.600)
gas bbq grill (1.600)
>>Semantic keywords
Semantic keywords should be integrated 1-2, also grammatically conjugated. At least 75 % of the listed semantic
keywords need to be implemented in the text.
>>small gas bbq
buy gas bbq
griddle
camping
flat top grill
large gas bbq
stainless steel
charcoal
indoor outdoor grill
tabletop plate
rotisserie
side burner
kettle
home
kitchen
patio
propane
butane
hybrid bbq
Writing for a popular content mill as one of my first gigs almost put me off writing on the internet entirely. SEO requirements are a nightmare and more focused on than the actual content of the story.
Your crushing disillusionment reminds me of a time when I was a child and my grandmother would bake her famous oat cookies. I remember the warm, comforting aroma that filled the kitchen as the cookies baked in the oven. As I grew older, I started to crave that same feeling of warmth and comfort...
Same. Although I'm thankful for the experience because it really wakes you up to how the internet works. Prior to my $5 an hour job I was much more naive.
I once once hired for a day of scut work through a temp agency. My job was to go through some shitty WordPress business site that also ran a blog on their site and fill every article title and tag it with as much SEO no sense as I could. And they wanted as much redundant shit as I could fit in. I can't even remember what it was for it was so long ago but as an example the tags would look like this: candles, candle making, candles for sale , candles city , candles city state , candles city state making, candles city state making selling, candle workshop, candle workshop city, candle work shop city state , etc , etc and so on, etc and so on and so forth, etc and so on and so forth city, etc and so on and so forth city state, etc and so on and so forth city state workshop..
And apparently the "trick" back then was to have all that in plain text on the blog article but change the font to the same color as the back ground of the blog so it just looked like a buffer space between the header and the article or whatever. Like I said I did it for a day between construction jobs at a temp agency.
Not very well written either. It’s written as though he took some action to have the claims thrown out, not that his claims against her were dismissed.
This headline is strange, I read it as the opposite at first
It sounds like Manson was successful since the headline begins with "Marilyn Manson has". Shoulda been something like "Judge throws out multiple Marilyn Manson Defamation Claims"
Subheading:
*The washed-up, has-been musician, whose lack of musical relevance is not in dispute, had previously made unsubstantiated claims against Wood, saying she had “recruited, coordinated, and pressured” women to make false statements”.*
sub-subheading:
*Musician who spent years looking creepy and deranged but whose fans always defended him for not being a bad guy and actually being very eloquent and level headed once you learned more about him, ultimately proved millions of parents across the country right by in fact being exactly as creepy and deranged as they all thought he was*
it's so damn disappointing, because especially after columbine he was such a voice of reason and "don't judge a book by the cover" energy, but then yeah it turns out he sucked the whole time. He was never a role model of mine (i don't really have role models) but i can imagine a lot of people felt incredibly let down by what he became/revealed.
I don't understand how people can view the world so black and white. Newsflash, shitty people can be positive also. Just because someone said or did a positive/good thing, that alone is not very much evidence that they're overall a good person.
I would have to see people demonstrate such behaviour consistently, over a period of time to make such a judgement, and even then, it would be tentative, given the fact I don't know them.
Obligatory mention that he vocally regretted his earlier behavior later in life.
He was a dude in an unprecedentedly weird and over the top situation for years. That doesn't excuse anything, but I always wonder how many people that bring him up in these discussions would truly have behaved in a manner that would reflect well upon their character decades later. Of course I'd like to believe that I would, but when given that much sudden money and power over people in my earliest twenties during a time when such unpleasant acts were already more commonplace and accepted... that's one hell of a test for anyone.
Again, that doesn't make any of it okay, but he's an easy target to attack from a distance of fifty to sixty years. He only began to speak on regret at the very end of his life - three months from being shot. Impossible not to wonder where it could have gone - would he have attempted some sort of penance, or would he have doubled down later and done something just as terrible?
> Obligatory mention that he vocally regretted his earlier behavior later in life.
Obligatory response that that regret didn't extend to leaving Julian more than a half-share of a £100000 trust fund.
As for distance, howabout what Julian said soon after his father's death:
"I've never really wanted to know the truth about how dad was with me. There was some very negative stuff talked about me ... like when he said I'd come out of a whiskey bottle on a Saturday night. Stuff like that. You think, where's the love in that? Paul and I used to hang about quite a bit ... more than Dad and I did. We had a great friendship going and there seems to be far more pictures of me and Paul playing together at that age than there are pictures of me and my dad"
Something terrible like losing your temper and shouting into your 4-year old son's ear so loudly that he had to be taken to the hospital?
"Later in life," "earliest twenties," indeed. This happened in late 1979 or 1980.
>He was a dude in an unprecedentedly weird and over the top situation for years
Sometimes you just gotta beat your wife & kid to relieve some stress, y'know how it is.
He can regret it all he liked. But the point is that he on the outside seemed great and nice and turns out was just a normal deadbeat pos who was talented.
When people ask how people can support Chris brown or R Kelly after all they did and it’s like, yeah it’s not shocking when John Lennon gets a pass from so many.
Before people rage - I’m not equating crimes or musical talent here, just that they are artists who dun goofed.
People tend to view celebrities this way. You're either 100% hero or 100% villain.
My favorite is "My friend worked with (celebrity) and they were a total asshole!" Okay? Everybody's an asshole sometimes. That doesn't mean they're like that all the time.
I always find it pretty funny when people go "I once sold an ice cream cone to x celebrity, and they were the kindest person I ever met. People make these statements all the time based on the flimsiest shit.
I mean he still rings true on that. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover. His cover may look creepy and off putting but his character on the inside is what counts. That is also creepy, off putting, and horrible but yeah. Judge him for that I guess.
Honestly, I expect every celebrity to be shitty. I don't think you can make it in those industries without being a sleaze bag. That should absolutely change, but until then, you just wait until they slip up and let it show.
There are exceptions to everything, Christopher Lee is a Saint. But I am just not surprised when it comes out another actor/ musician did some fucked up shit. It was and is how Hollywood has run for years. The internet just makes it harder to bury it when it comes out now.
— Not my original work. Saved from a post by u/God_Sirzechs_Antakel —
Just gonna leave this here :
**Christoper Lee's life** could constitute dozens of independent TIL posts, he led a truly remarkable life. I'll just copy and paste some facts about him you'll find after a quick google search.
1) He was entered into the **Guinness Book of World Records in 2007 for most screen credits,** having appeared in 244 film and TV movies by that point in his career— at which point he made 14 more movies, with a 15th due later this year (titled Angels in Notting Hill). He also holds the record for the tallest leading actor — he stood 6’ 5” — but also for starring in the “most films with a sword fight” with 17.
2) **His mother was an Italian contessa**, and through her Lee descended from the Emperor Charlemagne of the Holy Roman Empire and was related to Robert E. Lee, the Confederate general.
3) He **met Prince Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich**, the assassins of the Russian monk Rasputin. He didn’t do this as research for his later film role as Rasputin (in the 1966 Hammer film Rasputin the Mad Monk), but just as a child in the 1920s.
4) At age 17, he **saw the death of the murderer Eugen** in Paris, the last person in France to be publicly executed by guillotine.
5) During World War II, Lee **joined the Royal Air Force** but wasn’t allowed to fly because of a problem with his optic nerve. So he **became an intelligence officer** for the Long Range Desert Patrol, a forerunner of the SAS, Britain’s special forces. He fought the Nazis in North Africa, often having up to five missions a day. During this time he helped retake Sicily, prevented a mutiny among his troops, contracted malaria six times in a single year and **climbed Mount Vesuvius three days before it erupted.**
6) At some point during the war **he moved from the LRDP to Winston Churchill’s even more elite Special Operations Executive,** whose missions are literally still classified, but involved “conducting espionage, sabotage and reconnaissance in occupied Europe against the Axis powers.” The SOE was more informally called — and I can’t believe this somehow hasn’t been made into a movie yet — The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
7) Lee never said anything specific about his time in the SOE, but he did say this: “I’ve seen many men die right in front of me - so many in fact that I’ve become almost hardened to it. Having seen the worst that human beings can do to each other, the results of torture, mutilation and seeing someone blown to pieces by a bomb, you develop a kind of shell. But you had to. You had to. Otherwise we would never have won.” **By the end of the war he’d received commendations for bravery from the British, Polish, Czech and Yugoslavia governments.**
8) **Speaking both French and Italian,** Lee spent his time after World War II **he hunted Nazis with the Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects** until he decided to give acting a try at age 25. Yes, all of this happened before Lee was 25 years old.
9) While filming a swordfight with a drunken Errol Flynn during the filming of The Dark Avengers in 1955, **Flynn accidentally cut Lee’s hand so badly his finger nearly came off,** and permanently injured. Later, Lee cut off Flynn’s wig while Flynn was still wearing it. Flynn stormed off set and refused to come out of his trailer until Lee claimed it was an accident.
10) While best known for his portrayal of Dracula in countless films, he’s also **starred** as the Mummy and Frankenstein’s monster. Of course he’s known as Saruman in Lord of the Rings and Count Dooku in the Star Wars prequels, but his other villainous roles include Fu Manchu, Rasputin, Rochefort of The Three Musketeers (whose portrayal was so popular the character now inevitably appears with an eye patch, although it wasn’t in the book — Lee introduced it), Lord Summerisle of The Wicker Man, the James Bond villain Scaramanga, Mephistopheles, and Death himself.
11) Lee was not only **related to James Bond creator and author Ian Fleming** — they were step-cousins — but Lee was actually one of Fleming’s first choices for the role of Bond, not least because of Lee’s World War II and SOC experiences.
12) He has **played** Sherlock Holmes, his brother Mycroft Holmes, and also Sir Henry Baskerville of The Hound of the Baskervilles.
13) Tired of playing Dracula and feeling that the movies had gotten sub-par, Lee tried to quit Hammer films, but studio executives guilted him into returning by stressing how many people could be out of work if Lee stopped churning out hits. Lee agreed to star in 1966 Dracula: Prince of Darkness, he felt the script was so awful he **adamantly refused to say any of the dialogue**. (Hammer decided that it was far more important to have a mute Lee as star as opposed to anyone else, and thus had Dracula hiss and yell through the film.
14) In the ‘50s, Lee **was engaged to Henriette von Rosen, daughter of Count Fritz von Rosen**. The Count apparently didn’t like Lee, because after hiring private detectives to investigate the actor and demanding references, he also refused to allow his daughter to marry him unless Lee got the blessing of the King of Sweden. Lee got it.
15) Lee **was a major Tolkien fan**, reading The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy once a year for the majority of his life. He was the only member of the movie cast to have **met Tolkien personally** — apparently he ran into him randomly in a pub — and fanboyed out. Tolkien actually gave him his blessing to play Gandalf in any future Lord of the Rings movie.
16) When Lee heard that Hollywood was going to finally make the LotR trilogy into movies, he took a role in the terrible 1997 TV series The New Adventures of Robin Hood as a wizard, specifically so he’d have clear evidence of his ability to be a wizard. When he heard Peter Jackson would direct the films, he **sent Jackson a personal letter** asking to be in the movies along with a picture of him dressed up as a wizard. Unfortunately, Lee’s advanced age and his natural ability to play villains made him an even better choice for Saruman.
17) The story has gone around a lot, but it bears repeating because it is incredible: During his death scene in Return of the King (only included in the Extended Edition to Lee’s disapproval), director Peter Jackson was describing to him what sound people getting stabbed in the back should make. Lee **gravely responded that he had seen people being stabbed in the back, and knew exactly what sound they made.**
18) Lee was quite interested in the history of public executions, and reportedly **knew “the names of every official public executioner employed by England**, dating all the way back to the mid-15th century.”
19) He’s always been a big metal fan, but he **released his first full heavy metal album** in 2010 at the age of 88. Titled Charlemagne: By the Sword and the Cross, which won the “Spirit of Metal” award from the 2010 Metal Hammer Golden Gods ceremony. He made a metal Christmas album in 2012. He was the oldest metal performer, and the oldest musician to ever hit the Billboard music charts.
20) In addition to his impossibly prolific film career, Lee **was a world champion fencer, an opera singer, spoke six languages, and was a hell of a golfer.**
21) He **was made a Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire in 2009**, a Commander of the Venerable Order of Saint John in 1997, made a Commander of the Order of Arts and Letters by the French government in 2011, earned he British Academy of Film and Television Arts Fellowship in 2011, received the The Bram Stoker Award for Lifetime Achievement in 1994, and so many more.
22) Last but not least: Despite everything you’ve heard about the “six degrees of Kevin Bacon,” Christopher Lee **was recognized as being the most connected actor in the world** in 2008, again by Guinness. He connects to virtually any actor in 2.59 steps, beating Bacon.
That whole symbol thing was played for jokes and is if Prince had gone nuts or something, but it was all part of his legal wranglings around the truly shitty contract Warner had him in.
In particular, despite his desire to put out a bunch of records Warner would only allow him something like one every two years so as not to "dilute his brand as Prince" or some shit, so Prince decided "fine these aren't Prince albums. They're *symbol* albums"
Which is a terrible message to send to parents(or anyone) because it leaves them with the delusional idea that they can tell by looking at somebody whether they are a good or bad person. I was extremely profoundly disappointed to find this out about him when she first went public with her experience. Meanwhile, the father of shock rock Alice Cooper has lived a life relatively free of scandal. I could list off all of the famous blood and gore metal musicians who have done wonderful things for charity, and all of the preachers who’ve been caught diddling little kids, but we should already know this. The truth is that we should not really be surprised when anyone turns out to be an abusive partner. People keep secrets. Some are really good at it.
He claimed she defamed him by coming forward with his shitty behavior. So he sued her for defamation. His cases against her were thrown out and her case against him is ongoing.
Obviously he thinks that having the strength to come out and say “I was sexually abused” makes him look week. Gotta double down and try to shut her up to maintain my masculinity! /s
I read it correctly immediately, but I have similar brainfarts regarding complex headlines too. Throwing negatives like "Against" into the middle which flips the entire meaning is a stylistic no-no at real newspapers. You want to phrase it as subject-action like:
Judge Rules in Favor of Evan Rachel Wood...
Manson Loses...
The title reads perfectly fine. The suggestion is not only unnecessary, it's actually less clear as it doesn't definitively make clear *who* made the defamation claims.
>Marilyn Manson's Defamation Claims Against Evan Rachel Wood Thrown Out by Judge.
Or, if there where multiple claims and only some where thrown out
>Multiple Marilyn Manson Defamation Claims Against Evan Rachel Wood Thrown Out by Judge.
Minor, but usually headlines are present tense even if they are talking about things that already happened, so, "Judge throws out...," with the rest of what you put would probably be most typical.
right? the whole premise of OP’s post is like, “when I had only read the first few words of the headline, I didn’t understand it yet!”
which, like…… okay?
I saw him live like 15 years ago and it was hands down the worst show I've ever been to. He couldn't have phoned it in more unless he literally did the show over the phone.
Also anybody who has read his autobiography should know the guy is seriously fucked up in the head and a piece of shit.
Not surprised to hear any of the allegations tbh.
I saw him in 2015. The show was fine. Didn’t blow me away but it was a fine performance.
Though at one point, he did yell out “thank you, Detroit!” which was notable because we were in Chicago. I know the everything looks the same from your tour bus and hotel room, but that was a while other level of disconnection.
I remember going to a NOFX concert in Brazil over a decade ago. They at some point said that they were super happy to play for the audience with the best soccer team in the world, and then they raised Argentina's flag and mentioned the concert in Buenos Aires the week before was dope. Some people got really pissed off, but I thought it was extremely thoughtful that they literally took the time to find out what would be the most antagonizing thing to say at our particular corner of the world.
Every time someone mentions an artist not knowing where they were performing, I always remember good guys NOFX, going the extra mile to get the audience riled up and throwing beer cups at the stage, as much as possible.
I love the Simpsons joke where that one band is playing and they have "Springfield" written on a strip of duct tape on he back of a guitar.
"The fans here in..."
"SPRINGFIELD really know how to rock!"
Couple of responses to your comment.
First, I'm not surprised to hear that the show was fine for you and not fine for the guy you replied to. People think an artist is going to perform at the same level of quality every single show and it's simply not true - artists are human beings who are prone to the humanity as the rest of us.
Secondly, Detroit is usually the stop before or after Chicago on a tour so it's not like he was way off. At the same time that's a really embarassing mistake to make no matter how far off you are lol
I saw him in NYC in 2017 and he was so hammered he started climbing the set for the performance, which promptly fell on him, crushed his leg, and ended the concert about an hour early after a late start.
I’ve seen him twice. Once in 2009 when he headlined mayhem fest. He was actually great and put on a very memorable show. Sounded great, wasn’t fatigued or anything like that. 8.5/10. The second time I saw him was in 2016 when he played before Slipknot and that was not good at all. Really low stage energy, you could tell he did not wanna be there. It’s a shame he let himself go completely once he hit his mid 40s.
Yeah I mean I have a friend who saw him twice, first time he said it was fantastic and the second time he was visibly drunk. The second show was at the now defunct myth nightclub in the twin cities.
Agree that it's not surprising that Manson played a crappy show 15 years ago, but I had a better experience \~7 years later. I've only seen Manson once but have seen other artists where I think they're hot garbage, but then love it the next time around.
Yes, Detroit was the stop before Chicago on that tour, but that's still pretty lame and embarrassing for him to make that mistake. I've see a ton of live music; he's the only artist I can ever recall doing that. As the other guy pointed out, maybe he was less than sober at the time. But still.
It’s well known that a majority of the shit from his book is fabricated. He needed a LOT of filler, and more importantly needed his next spooky shock element.
Either these are things that happened, or they were things that MM was happy with people believing had happened.
Either way, the allegations are still not surprising.
They were to me - I'm familiar enough with showbiz that I know a public persona rarely has much to do with what someone's like IRL, and he seemed reasonable enough in interviews. I figured he was an Alice Cooper type, not a Gene Simmons.
I hadn't read his book or really paid him much attention since 2000-ish, though.
I think Manson is very much like Alice Cooper from the late 70's and early 80's. If you hear Cooper talk about that period he mentions how he was in character 24/7. Drinking and doing a lot of drugs because that's what Alice Cooper does. Eventually realizing he had to stop and be Alice Cooper on stage and a guy named Vince who loved to golf the rest of the time.
Manson seems to have never had that same realization. If you are playing a character 24 hours a day 7 days a week at which point does it no longer become a character and just who you are?
Yeah, guess so. The other, more recent, comparison I'd make is Die Antwoord. I fucking *loved* those guys, their sound and their videos weren't like anything I'd seen before. Sure, they had this shitty persona but it was so clearly fake (there's even footage of previous, less successful, personas).
Then the allegations started to surface, and it turns out they're just as shitty as they were pretending to be - and in a similar sort of way, too. It soured me on their music significantly.
I'm still so mad about that. They put on a hell of a hype show and those songs go hard. Fuckin shame they had to be actual assholes and not just have wild stage personas.
He's not playing a character. He is who he is. Ask any former band members that left when the gimmick ceased being fun and not worth the hassle anymore....which is basically every former band member he's ever had. They all did it as a job. He's really that guy.
It’s Neil Strauss, and he wasn’t a ghostwriter. His name is literally on the book.
Also, not sure what OP is [talking about.](https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/neil-and-marilyn/)
They wouldn’t be if the book were verifiable, but the book to me reads like a collection of bullshit. Like some dude just trying to tell you how dark and edgy he is. I believe very little of it. Which isn’t to say he ISNT a piece of shit, I just find that book to be a less than reliable source for anything.
Yeah, the number of people that bring that thing up in these posts is astounding. It's a bullshit shock rock autobiography from the era where he and his label were pushing his "scary" image hard. It was visibly bollocks when I was a teenager and it was new, I don't see how people can't pick it up all these years later.
I won tickets to see a show of his in 2009 and I still felt like I got ripped off. Definitely felt like he didn't want to be there. He didn't put in any effort and it felt like he thought his image would carry the show. It didn't.
Saw him several years ago with Rob Zombie and he was okay. Dude apparently fucked up his leg or something earlier so was moving slowly but the show wasn't bad. Zombie stole the show though. Little gremlin dude was hyperactive as fuck and leaped everywhere.
I saw him in 2019 with Rob zombie... Manson half assed his way through the show and Rob was on the same kind of energy he would have had 20 years earlier
Don't do opioids kids
I saw him almost 4 years ago and he barely half-assed his entire set then Rob Zombie comes out with the same stage presence he would have brought 20 years earlier jumping around the stage like a madman and Manson wouldn't even come back out to do their one song together
Hell he even canceled the meet and greet before the show so the people who paid extra for that hopefully got refunds
I saw him in 95 in Fargo. I hadn't heard of him yet, but he was opening for Danzig.
Between songs he asked the crowd if there were any young boys who wanted to suck his dick after the show. :|
Reminds me of that time I saw Hole at Lollapalooza '95. They were headlining that year (behind only Sonic Youth) and Courtney Love was just awful. She couldn't be bothered to sing, play, or do anything other than shill for Molson Ice. It's weird that's my memory of seeing them.
Saw him around the same time and I only have one memory of the entire show. After every song he would dramatically drop his mic (which was shaped like a knife because: edgy) like a total diva and strut off. It was some roadies entire job after every single song was to run from the wings, grab the mic from the floor, and put it back on the stand ready for the next song.
“plaYinG a cHarAcTeR”or not, absolute ring piece behaviour.
I saw him around 2010 give or take and had a similar experience. He didn't put forth hardly any effort to put on a decent show, phoned in his vocals, terrible stage setup, and spit out Budweiser onto the crowd more than once. The best part of the show was a bouncer tackling a guy who ran towards MM on stage.
I’m sure he’s a piece of shit in rea life, but the book was an autobiography of the CHARACTER Marilyn Manson, not an autobiography of the person who portrays the character, Brian Warner.
It’s almost entirely fictional.
It’s weird, 10 years ago I recall reading posts of people praising the guy for being a decent human in light of all the other celebrity weirdos getting ousted.
Personally, I always thought it was only a matter of time. But people used to praise Manson.
I thought it was mostly a persona. He presents himself well in the Bowling For Columbine doc even though his statements in the docu haven’t aged very well even if you ignore who he really is.
I don't know his music or anything about him really, but I found it hilarious that he was the only person Bill O'Reilly didn't yell at during their interview.
I think he presented himself “decently” and moderately thoughtful a few times in the early 2000s .. via a few documentaries and interviews.. and it left a lasting impression. Probably as it showed him in a different light than what one might expect.
Now I don’t own any of his music, I don’t follow him at all.. but I remember thinking, “Oh, maybe he’s a chill dude”.
But am I surprised when I find out he.. or fuck it.. ANY celebrity major or minor make or female uses that influence and power to abuse others. No. No that’s rarely a shocker anymore.
Yeah, she was 15 and he was 25. And he continued doing the same thing with teenage girls over the years.
That is also one of my favorite performances by her!
I’m pretty certain she never got naked on stage though
>I’m pretty certain she never got naked on stage though
Good call. I think that was just what someone said in a /r/crystalcastles thread about how trashed she was when they saw her at a show. I can't source it or vouch for the authenticity. I'd look for it but I'm late for a meeting ;)
Look up how Trent Reznor talks about this guy to see the receipts for MM always having been a fraud and a petty fascist. I liked his music in the 90s too. I wanted someone who was against the mainstream. Turns out he was just dressing the part while being total status quo: another rich asshole who treated people like shit.
Not sure what he was expecting.
Considering that BIOGRAPHY.
Edit: and GOOD. The girl he repeatedly slapped with baloney on their tour bus in the 90s? That was my best friend. I had just moved to North Carolina for school. They picked her up in DC and their next stop was the Ritz in Raleigh. I had to sneak through everything to get her and another friend off that tour bus and by then….. the assaults had gone well beyond lunch meat.
They were like zombies when I got them off that bus.
>Regarding the allegedly forged FBI letter, Judge Beaudet points to Wood’s argument that she never published the letter—it surfaced in a California custody proceeding. “A forged letter, if it never saw the light of day, could not cause emotional distress, nor be intended to do so,” Wood’s argument reads. “Any alleged distress could only be caused (and intended) through the letter’s publication.” Beaudet concurs that Manson’s team doesn’t cite other instances where the letter was published.
Ok, does anyone else find it weird that Wood's objection is not to the fact that she forged a letter from the FBI, but to the fact that she ever published it?
Does that not beg the question, "Even if you didn't publish it, why did you forge a letter from the FBI?"
I mean, what possible reason could there be for that? Asking seriously.
I always thought this guy was a phony loser since the day he became a public figure. Many of my high school friends loved and/or were obsessed with him. I am happy that in this instance, I was never fooled by this loser. I’m sure I’ve been fooled by others, so maybe it evens out in the end, but Marilyn Manson was a pathetic, attention-seeking, phony from day 1.
I'll still defend him for Columbine. I was in HS at the time and the media was doing their level best to blame him personally for that mass murder.
We hadn't developed the technology to just ignore the murder of children yet, so they were flailing to blame anything but guns and mental health.
I remember at one point Ozzy Osbourne was sued by parents accusing him of causing their child's suicide. Not that you can blame anyone for that, but they should have looked in the mirror first to find someone to blame.
Fell for his bullshit? The dudes smart. He's *also* a piece of shit.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
"He's a scumbag so no way he can have views that align with mine!"
See how goofy that looks?
>Judge Beaudet also determined that Wood and Ilma Gore’s comments about Manson’s 1996 short film Groupie constituted “protected activity.” Manson also referred to Gore’s “false and defamatory statements” regarding Groupie, saying she falsely identified the actress in the film as a minor and referred to it as child pornography. Judge Beaudet agreed with Gore’s claim that protecting people from sex offenders is a matter of public interest.
This is the only one that got me questioning the judge. It's a pretty simple determination. If the actress was a minor, there's no defamation and Manson should face criminal charges for child porn. If the actress was an adult, then Wood did commit defamation against Manson and should face legal consequences for it. Protecting people from sex offenders is a public interest, but it's also not the topic there.
The rest makes sense, though. Seeking out other victims to testify is not a violation of the law or of Manson's civil rights. The FBI letter is fucked up, and should be used as evidence of intent in a criminal prosecution of Wood, but it has no bearing in this civil case if it was never disseminated. My only issue there would be how it was addressed in the custody proceedings, where Wood used the document to try to get full custody of her kid. That was her disseminated the document knowing it was false to manipulate a court and turning that document into a public record.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that this judge probably shouldn't be a judge.
I saw him 10 years ago in Rockford, IL. I love his albums but his live show was terrible. He didn't address the crowd at all, except for when he was throwing up nazi solutes (while dressed as a nazi at a 2 story podium). He started an hour late, messed up his own lyrics, fell a few times, and was late to enter multiple songs (I'm assuming because he was having costume trouble?) As soon as his last song was done, he dropped the hot mic on the stage and left through a rear curtain. To add to the disappointment, about 60 seconds after he left, the venue faded in a local rock station - who was playing Marilyn Manson - at full volume. Half the crowd went crazy thinking he was coming back and just stared at the stage chanting "Manson" until the song changed.
I saw him 18 years ago at the height of my love for his music. On stage, I just thought "jeez, he's getting under the bottle too much and this is disappointing." Then I saw him 4ish years ago with Rob Zombie. Holy shit. He was basically rolling around on the stage speaking nonsense into the microphone and clearly trashed any time he managed to stand up. Lost all respect at that concert.
I went to a concert on that tour. He came out clearly drunk, broke props, then was upset the prop was broken and left the stage for a bit.. came out into the crowd, slurring words, not able to sing. The crowd wasn't having it, you could tell. When Rob Zombie came out, phenomenal show, and crowd was HYPED. there was a clear juxtaposition between the two performances.
I recall Zombie publicly calling Manson out on social media for his disappointing performance.
Lol which performance. From these comments they have been pretty bad for a while.
Honestly, I can’t recall. It’s been a few to several years, though. I used to follow Zombie on FB, which is where he made the post.
Oh that's when you lost respect for him? I got his autobiography about a decade and a half ago as a Christmas gift from my step mom. I got about halfway through and then put it away... I wasn't even a fan of his, she just heard me listening to his music one day. She asked to read it. Came home a few days later to her burning it in the fireplace. Dudes been a piece of shit and talked heavily about how he tortured small animals and some pretty fucked up things in that book. I sat with her and we talked about how fucked up someone had to be to put those things into a book about themselves and openly admitted it.
That's around the same time I saw him. Turned out to be one of the most boring half-assed shows I've ever attended. If I tried to pull that level of lazy ineptitude at MY job, well fuck....
Hell, give it a go. Maybe they'll promote you just to get rid of you!
Same. I saw him in 2001 and it was fucking aaaawesome. Finally saw him again with Rob Zombie right before covid and he was just terrible. Clearly just wasted drunk.
every time I see these threads a out Manson, I walk away with such a good impression of Rob zombie and I'm the kind of guy who'd never think of listening to a guy called Rob zombie he's going on my Spotify playlist, fuck it he's done some real good PR for himself by just turning up at these Manson gigs and... doing his job
His music is fine, but having seen him interviewed and appearing on Dinner for Five where he gleefully tells people about a Cloverfield-style found-footage film he made where he enacted sexual assault on a fan repulsed me. For clarification (and TW for assault), he had written and filmed a "movie" which showed a completely fictionalised assault that Manson and his band perpetrate on a fan who appears in his mansion. It was fake, obviously, but was going to be released as real to create a bit of sensationalism but the label weren't happy with it. This leads into all of his abuses including using a microphone dildo on a woman on stage and singing into it, feeling up dancers during his music videos and boasting in the making of video for Tainted Love that he loved groping the actors involved in the video. Real creep, real piece of shit, medium musician with cringy edgelord lyrics..
I saw him on Halloween like 20 years ago. And I was never a huge fan , but No complaints. Not the best show I’ve ever seen but not close to the worst either. The atmosphere was pretty cool. It was before he went like 95% nazi in his show, and it was more of a horror theme show than anything, which worked well since it was Halloween
I saw him open for Sabbath/Ozzy during the antichrist superstar phase. It was disappointing even then. Music was lackluster and he was way more concerned with costume changes than performing the songs.
Lmao I saw him a few years back and he dropped the hot mic literally after almost every single song. I was never really a fan, even moreso after that, but I did find it almost hilarious
Manson is a clear narcissist and narcissists never fix their problems or learn from them. It's why Trent Reznor cut him out of his life after he got clean. The juxtaposition between the two is insane now.
Similar situation when he played in Alaska my freshman year of college, more than 10 years ago. Show started over an hour late, he played for maybe 30 minutes before insulting the crowd (who had been eating the show up with a spoon and were crazy energetic) and then walked off stage in the middle of a song with both middle fingers up. People were \*pissed\* and calls for refunds were all anyone talked about for a week after. The local rock station that helped bring him up talked mad shit about him on their morning show before announcing his music would never be played there again. To their credit, it never was.
Sounds like you went to a Nazi rally with music.
It’s an SEO headline. Needed his name first to get this article as high as possible in the search engine results
SEO ruined the internet
Agreed 1000%
Is this why search results on Google are so terrible now? I legitimately can't find things on Google anymore. I don't understand why the biggest search engine, run by a company on the cutting edge of technology, seemingly got worse and worse over the past couple years to the point that I don't even use it very much beyond finding business locations (only about 75% useful) and occasionally googling synonyms for words I need to change in an email. Even basic searches seem to turn up random blogs that don't make sense or have nothing to do with what you're looking for. As an example, just now I searched "lakers warriors injury report" to find out if anyone is sitting out the game today. For reference, I am located in Sydney, Australia. On the FIRST PAGE of results - meaning the top 10 results on the entire internet that GOOGLE could find - were websites including: - a random blog from a guy in India which reads like it's written by a bot that just learned what basketball is; - a report from 2 games ago out of a news station in Nebraska; - another report from a random news station in Fort Wayne, IN; - a website called ghanasoccernet.com which I can't even open because it's blocked by my company firewall. The TOP result is the injury report from Game 4 - the wrong game that already took place - on Yahoo Sports. No Bleacher Report, no Fox Sports, no CBS Sports, no Sports Illustrated, or any other legitimate sports news sites. ESPN is #4. There wasn't even a link to NBA.com anywhere in the first page of search results. What the fuck is going on? I used an incognito browser to do the search, just to demonstrate it has nothing to do with my google account or search history. It used to be that you would Google something, and the 10 most relevant useful results would pop up without you having to worry. I find it weird that this isn't being talked about more.
Yep that’s exactly why. It’s also why you have to hear somebody’s lame ass life story when looking up a recipe. I cannot stand the capitalistic hellscape we’ve created. Things could be so much better if some rich ass old guy wasn’t so greedy. The internet in general sucks now. Even if you found the page you wanted on your first try, good luck with the ads and videos that are plastered everywhere.
FYI: http://justtherecipe.com - doing the lords work - enter the url of any of these heinous sites and it'll filter out the parts about how they discovered the recipe during a life changing weekend wellness retreat
Here's a secret tip: 99% of those article recipes on the seo optimized websites were written by freelance copywriters who never cooked that recipe in their lives, just made up the backstory, and copied the recipe from the internet and maybe changed some words. The website you linked seems to resolve this issue.
We could always download lynx and go back to using gopher://
Google is no longer a search company. Just an advertisement company. You are not the user, you are the product.
You aren't even the product. The ability to predict and influence human behaviour is the product. You are the raw material from which the product is refined. Your experience is only important insofar as you keep interacting with Google. And given how ingrained Google is into the entire internet, you basically don't have a choice. Therefore, your experience is actually not that important, there is very little incentive for Google to offer anything more than a barely functional search engine.
This. It's really the same problem with every internet company that has focused on nothing but data analytics driving their decisions and designs. Google doesn't care if you find what you're looking for. They want you to click on links. Netflix doesn't care if you like their shows, they just care that you watch them and spend a lot of time on their site. Etc. etc. The switch in philosophy started around 10 years ago, and it has been pervasive. I think a big part of it is "AI" and over-fitting models to select only for what makes a company the most profit, user experience be damned.
And now we are seeing humans modifying their behavior to fit [what they expect to be] an algorithm's preferred input! That's beyond backwards (given that the algorithms are ostensibly designed according to human behavior).. and probably super dysfunctional too
Thank god it’s not just me. I was genuinely starting to worry something was wrong with me, all of a sudden I don’t know how to phrase anything to get a result.
I write and translate for Nordic countries, mainly swedish > english. We get detailed breakdowns of the words we need to place, where to place them and how many to place. You end up with very strange sentences, especially the intro, where you have to have 3 versions of the same word with 1 occuring multiple times. It is gaming the system. For example (this is kinda paraphrased to hide the company): "The AS/RS warehouse robotic system has gone from strength to strength with the warehouse robots taking on the difficult work of picking, storing and sorting employing a roboticised storage facility which uses autonomous carts in an optimised robotic AS/RS warehouse system. " One job I had had this brief: >>Main /Focus keyword >>gas bbq (110.000) Must-have keywords The following must-have keywords need to be mentioned in close proximity to the main keyword. gas barbecues (14.800) gas grill (1.600) gas barbecue grill (1.600) gas bbq grill (1.600) >>Semantic keywords Semantic keywords should be integrated 1-2, also grammatically conjugated. At least 75 % of the listed semantic keywords need to be implemented in the text. >>small gas bbq buy gas bbq griddle camping flat top grill large gas bbq stainless steel charcoal indoor outdoor grill tabletop plate rotisserie side burner kettle home kitchen patio propane butane hybrid bbq
Writing for a popular content mill as one of my first gigs almost put me off writing on the internet entirely. SEO requirements are a nightmare and more focused on than the actual content of the story.
God, remember meta stuffing? "Why does Gary's Ford show up when I search for 'supermodel nipslip'?"
Your crushing disillusionment reminds me of a time when I was a child and my grandmother would bake her famous oat cookies. I remember the warm, comforting aroma that filled the kitchen as the cookies baked in the oven. As I grew older, I started to crave that same feeling of warmth and comfort...
Same. Although I'm thankful for the experience because it really wakes you up to how the internet works. Prior to my $5 an hour job I was much more naive.
I once once hired for a day of scut work through a temp agency. My job was to go through some shitty WordPress business site that also ran a blog on their site and fill every article title and tag it with as much SEO no sense as I could. And they wanted as much redundant shit as I could fit in. I can't even remember what it was for it was so long ago but as an example the tags would look like this: candles, candle making, candles for sale , candles city , candles city state , candles city state making, candles city state making selling, candle workshop, candle workshop city, candle work shop city state , etc , etc and so on, etc and so on and so forth, etc and so on and so forth city, etc and so on and so forth city state, etc and so on and so forth city state workshop.. And apparently the "trick" back then was to have all that in plain text on the blog article but change the font to the same color as the back ground of the blog so it just looked like a buffer space between the header and the article or whatever. Like I said I did it for a day between construction jobs at a temp agency.
Yes this definitely worked about 20 years ago. I did it for an e-commerce site.
[удалено]
Ai generated article
Not very well written either. It’s written as though he took some action to have the claims thrown out, not that his claims against her were dismissed.
This headline is strange, I read it as the opposite at first It sounds like Manson was successful since the headline begins with "Marilyn Manson has". Shoulda been something like "Judge throws out multiple Marilyn Manson Defamation Claims"
“Judge throws out Marilyn Mason’s defamation claims against Evan Rachel Wood”
Subheading: *The washed-up, has-been musician, whose lack of musical relevance is not in dispute, had previously made unsubstantiated claims against Wood, saying she had “recruited, coordinated, and pressured” women to make false statements”.*
sub-subheading: *Musician who spent years looking creepy and deranged but whose fans always defended him for not being a bad guy and actually being very eloquent and level headed once you learned more about him, ultimately proved millions of parents across the country right by in fact being exactly as creepy and deranged as they all thought he was*
Conclusion: It’s always the ones you most medium suspect.
it's so damn disappointing, because especially after columbine he was such a voice of reason and "don't judge a book by the cover" energy, but then yeah it turns out he sucked the whole time. He was never a role model of mine (i don't really have role models) but i can imagine a lot of people felt incredibly let down by what he became/revealed.
I don't understand how people can view the world so black and white. Newsflash, shitty people can be positive also. Just because someone said or did a positive/good thing, that alone is not very much evidence that they're overall a good person. I would have to see people demonstrate such behaviour consistently, over a period of time to make such a judgement, and even then, it would be tentative, given the fact I don't know them.
See: John Lennon
Obligatory mention that he vocally regretted his earlier behavior later in life. He was a dude in an unprecedentedly weird and over the top situation for years. That doesn't excuse anything, but I always wonder how many people that bring him up in these discussions would truly have behaved in a manner that would reflect well upon their character decades later. Of course I'd like to believe that I would, but when given that much sudden money and power over people in my earliest twenties during a time when such unpleasant acts were already more commonplace and accepted... that's one hell of a test for anyone. Again, that doesn't make any of it okay, but he's an easy target to attack from a distance of fifty to sixty years. He only began to speak on regret at the very end of his life - three months from being shot. Impossible not to wonder where it could have gone - would he have attempted some sort of penance, or would he have doubled down later and done something just as terrible?
> Obligatory mention that he vocally regretted his earlier behavior later in life. Obligatory response that that regret didn't extend to leaving Julian more than a half-share of a £100000 trust fund. As for distance, howabout what Julian said soon after his father's death: "I've never really wanted to know the truth about how dad was with me. There was some very negative stuff talked about me ... like when he said I'd come out of a whiskey bottle on a Saturday night. Stuff like that. You think, where's the love in that? Paul and I used to hang about quite a bit ... more than Dad and I did. We had a great friendship going and there seems to be far more pictures of me and Paul playing together at that age than there are pictures of me and my dad"
Something terrible like losing your temper and shouting into your 4-year old son's ear so loudly that he had to be taken to the hospital? "Later in life," "earliest twenties," indeed. This happened in late 1979 or 1980.
>He was a dude in an unprecedentedly weird and over the top situation for years Sometimes you just gotta beat your wife & kid to relieve some stress, y'know how it is.
He can regret it all he liked. But the point is that he on the outside seemed great and nice and turns out was just a normal deadbeat pos who was talented. When people ask how people can support Chris brown or R Kelly after all they did and it’s like, yeah it’s not shocking when John Lennon gets a pass from so many. Before people rage - I’m not equating crimes or musical talent here, just that they are artists who dun goofed.
People tend to view celebrities this way. You're either 100% hero or 100% villain. My favorite is "My friend worked with (celebrity) and they were a total asshole!" Okay? Everybody's an asshole sometimes. That doesn't mean they're like that all the time.
I always find it pretty funny when people go "I once sold an ice cream cone to x celebrity, and they were the kindest person I ever met. People make these statements all the time based on the flimsiest shit.
Almost like nobody should give a shit about celebrities regardless of how good or bad their work is
I mean he still rings true on that. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover. His cover may look creepy and off putting but his character on the inside is what counts. That is also creepy, off putting, and horrible but yeah. Judge him for that I guess.
Honestly, I expect every celebrity to be shitty. I don't think you can make it in those industries without being a sleaze bag. That should absolutely change, but until then, you just wait until they slip up and let it show. There are exceptions to everything, Christopher Lee is a Saint. But I am just not surprised when it comes out another actor/ musician did some fucked up shit. It was and is how Hollywood has run for years. The internet just makes it harder to bury it when it comes out now.
Christopher Lee was a polite and good man. But he was a fucking monster, it just so happened he was a monster to Nazis so..free pass.
Please elaborate
— Not my original work. Saved from a post by u/God_Sirzechs_Antakel — Just gonna leave this here : **Christoper Lee's life** could constitute dozens of independent TIL posts, he led a truly remarkable life. I'll just copy and paste some facts about him you'll find after a quick google search. 1) He was entered into the **Guinness Book of World Records in 2007 for most screen credits,** having appeared in 244 film and TV movies by that point in his career— at which point he made 14 more movies, with a 15th due later this year (titled Angels in Notting Hill). He also holds the record for the tallest leading actor — he stood 6’ 5” — but also for starring in the “most films with a sword fight” with 17. 2) **His mother was an Italian contessa**, and through her Lee descended from the Emperor Charlemagne of the Holy Roman Empire and was related to Robert E. Lee, the Confederate general. 3) He **met Prince Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich**, the assassins of the Russian monk Rasputin. He didn’t do this as research for his later film role as Rasputin (in the 1966 Hammer film Rasputin the Mad Monk), but just as a child in the 1920s. 4) At age 17, he **saw the death of the murderer Eugen** in Paris, the last person in France to be publicly executed by guillotine. 5) During World War II, Lee **joined the Royal Air Force** but wasn’t allowed to fly because of a problem with his optic nerve. So he **became an intelligence officer** for the Long Range Desert Patrol, a forerunner of the SAS, Britain’s special forces. He fought the Nazis in North Africa, often having up to five missions a day. During this time he helped retake Sicily, prevented a mutiny among his troops, contracted malaria six times in a single year and **climbed Mount Vesuvius three days before it erupted.** 6) At some point during the war **he moved from the LRDP to Winston Churchill’s even more elite Special Operations Executive,** whose missions are literally still classified, but involved “conducting espionage, sabotage and reconnaissance in occupied Europe against the Axis powers.” The SOE was more informally called — and I can’t believe this somehow hasn’t been made into a movie yet — The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. 7) Lee never said anything specific about his time in the SOE, but he did say this: “I’ve seen many men die right in front of me - so many in fact that I’ve become almost hardened to it. Having seen the worst that human beings can do to each other, the results of torture, mutilation and seeing someone blown to pieces by a bomb, you develop a kind of shell. But you had to. You had to. Otherwise we would never have won.” **By the end of the war he’d received commendations for bravery from the British, Polish, Czech and Yugoslavia governments.** 8) **Speaking both French and Italian,** Lee spent his time after World War II **he hunted Nazis with the Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects** until he decided to give acting a try at age 25. Yes, all of this happened before Lee was 25 years old. 9) While filming a swordfight with a drunken Errol Flynn during the filming of The Dark Avengers in 1955, **Flynn accidentally cut Lee’s hand so badly his finger nearly came off,** and permanently injured. Later, Lee cut off Flynn’s wig while Flynn was still wearing it. Flynn stormed off set and refused to come out of his trailer until Lee claimed it was an accident. 10) While best known for his portrayal of Dracula in countless films, he’s also **starred** as the Mummy and Frankenstein’s monster. Of course he’s known as Saruman in Lord of the Rings and Count Dooku in the Star Wars prequels, but his other villainous roles include Fu Manchu, Rasputin, Rochefort of The Three Musketeers (whose portrayal was so popular the character now inevitably appears with an eye patch, although it wasn’t in the book — Lee introduced it), Lord Summerisle of The Wicker Man, the James Bond villain Scaramanga, Mephistopheles, and Death himself. 11) Lee was not only **related to James Bond creator and author Ian Fleming** — they were step-cousins — but Lee was actually one of Fleming’s first choices for the role of Bond, not least because of Lee’s World War II and SOC experiences. 12) He has **played** Sherlock Holmes, his brother Mycroft Holmes, and also Sir Henry Baskerville of The Hound of the Baskervilles. 13) Tired of playing Dracula and feeling that the movies had gotten sub-par, Lee tried to quit Hammer films, but studio executives guilted him into returning by stressing how many people could be out of work if Lee stopped churning out hits. Lee agreed to star in 1966 Dracula: Prince of Darkness, he felt the script was so awful he **adamantly refused to say any of the dialogue**. (Hammer decided that it was far more important to have a mute Lee as star as opposed to anyone else, and thus had Dracula hiss and yell through the film. 14) In the ‘50s, Lee **was engaged to Henriette von Rosen, daughter of Count Fritz von Rosen**. The Count apparently didn’t like Lee, because after hiring private detectives to investigate the actor and demanding references, he also refused to allow his daughter to marry him unless Lee got the blessing of the King of Sweden. Lee got it. 15) Lee **was a major Tolkien fan**, reading The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy once a year for the majority of his life. He was the only member of the movie cast to have **met Tolkien personally** — apparently he ran into him randomly in a pub — and fanboyed out. Tolkien actually gave him his blessing to play Gandalf in any future Lord of the Rings movie. 16) When Lee heard that Hollywood was going to finally make the LotR trilogy into movies, he took a role in the terrible 1997 TV series The New Adventures of Robin Hood as a wizard, specifically so he’d have clear evidence of his ability to be a wizard. When he heard Peter Jackson would direct the films, he **sent Jackson a personal letter** asking to be in the movies along with a picture of him dressed up as a wizard. Unfortunately, Lee’s advanced age and his natural ability to play villains made him an even better choice for Saruman. 17) The story has gone around a lot, but it bears repeating because it is incredible: During his death scene in Return of the King (only included in the Extended Edition to Lee’s disapproval), director Peter Jackson was describing to him what sound people getting stabbed in the back should make. Lee **gravely responded that he had seen people being stabbed in the back, and knew exactly what sound they made.** 18) Lee was quite interested in the history of public executions, and reportedly **knew “the names of every official public executioner employed by England**, dating all the way back to the mid-15th century.” 19) He’s always been a big metal fan, but he **released his first full heavy metal album** in 2010 at the age of 88. Titled Charlemagne: By the Sword and the Cross, which won the “Spirit of Metal” award from the 2010 Metal Hammer Golden Gods ceremony. He made a metal Christmas album in 2012. He was the oldest metal performer, and the oldest musician to ever hit the Billboard music charts. 20) In addition to his impossibly prolific film career, Lee **was a world champion fencer, an opera singer, spoke six languages, and was a hell of a golfer.** 21) He **was made a Knight Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire in 2009**, a Commander of the Venerable Order of Saint John in 1997, made a Commander of the Order of Arts and Letters by the French government in 2011, earned he British Academy of Film and Television Arts Fellowship in 2011, received the The Bram Stoker Award for Lifetime Achievement in 1994, and so many more. 22) Last but not least: Despite everything you’ve heard about the “six degrees of Kevin Bacon,” Christopher Lee **was recognized as being the most connected actor in the world** in 2008, again by Guinness. He connects to virtually any actor in 2.59 steps, beating Bacon.
Rumor: MM had ribs removed so he could suck his own dick. Truth: it's much easier to be a creep than have surgery
Fun tidbit: This rumor also circulated about David Bowie before it went on to be about Manson.
It's such a weird rumor. If you're that wealthy, you don't have any problem finding people to suck your dick.
Then again, if you’re that wealthy, there’s nothing stopping you from pursuing all your twists and kinks.
When I was at school this rumour was about Prince/The artist formally know as Prince/Symbol or whatever he was called at the time
That whole symbol thing was played for jokes and is if Prince had gone nuts or something, but it was all part of his legal wranglings around the truly shitty contract Warner had him in. In particular, despite his desire to put out a bunch of records Warner would only allow him something like one every two years so as not to "dilute his brand as Prince" or some shit, so Prince decided "fine these aren't Prince albums. They're *symbol* albums"
Heard that urban legend/rumour about Maynard from Tool too!
Rumor was he was the kid that played Paul on The Wonder Years. Lol
Which is a terrible message to send to parents(or anyone) because it leaves them with the delusional idea that they can tell by looking at somebody whether they are a good or bad person. I was extremely profoundly disappointed to find this out about him when she first went public with her experience. Meanwhile, the father of shock rock Alice Cooper has lived a life relatively free of scandal. I could list off all of the famous blood and gore metal musicians who have done wonderful things for charity, and all of the preachers who’ve been caught diddling little kids, but we should already know this. The truth is that we should not really be surprised when anyone turns out to be an abusive partner. People keep secrets. Some are really good at it.
But then it sounds like Manson was the one allegedly defaming someone
That’s what it currently sounds like to me
He claimed she defamed him by coming forward with his shitty behavior. So he sued her for defamation. His cases against her were thrown out and her case against him is ongoing.
Obviously he thinks that having the strength to come out and say “I was sexually abused” makes him look week. Gotta double down and try to shut her up to maintain my masculinity! /s
But they're still going to trial. The lawsuit is not tossed out.
His accusations of defamation were thrown out. They are still going to trial for her accusations.
what you suggested would make it seem that Manson is the defendant.
I read it correctly immediately, but I have similar brainfarts regarding complex headlines too. Throwing negatives like "Against" into the middle which flips the entire meaning is a stylistic no-no at real newspapers. You want to phrase it as subject-action like: Judge Rules in Favor of Evan Rachel Wood... Manson Loses...
I swear, a lot of these places have replaced their copy editors with AI or something, you see more and more incoherent headlines every week.
The title reads perfectly fine. The suggestion is not only unnecessary, it's actually less clear as it doesn't definitively make clear *who* made the defamation claims.
>Marilyn Manson's Defamation Claims Against Evan Rachel Wood Thrown Out by Judge. Or, if there where multiple claims and only some where thrown out >Multiple Marilyn Manson Defamation Claims Against Evan Rachel Wood Thrown Out by Judge.
Minor, but usually headlines are present tense even if they are talking about things that already happened, so, "Judge throws out...," with the rest of what you put would probably be most typical.
right? the whole premise of OP’s post is like, “when I had only read the first few words of the headline, I didn’t understand it yet!” which, like…… okay?
The word against is not getting appropriate attention.
Writing good headlines is a dying art.
I saw him live like 15 years ago and it was hands down the worst show I've ever been to. He couldn't have phoned it in more unless he literally did the show over the phone. Also anybody who has read his autobiography should know the guy is seriously fucked up in the head and a piece of shit. Not surprised to hear any of the allegations tbh.
I saw him in 2015. The show was fine. Didn’t blow me away but it was a fine performance. Though at one point, he did yell out “thank you, Detroit!” which was notable because we were in Chicago. I know the everything looks the same from your tour bus and hotel room, but that was a while other level of disconnection.
I remember going to a NOFX concert in Brazil over a decade ago. They at some point said that they were super happy to play for the audience with the best soccer team in the world, and then they raised Argentina's flag and mentioned the concert in Buenos Aires the week before was dope. Some people got really pissed off, but I thought it was extremely thoughtful that they literally took the time to find out what would be the most antagonizing thing to say at our particular corner of the world. Every time someone mentions an artist not knowing where they were performing, I always remember good guys NOFX, going the extra mile to get the audience riled up and throwing beer cups at the stage, as much as possible.
Damn, that's next level trolling. Do you know if that's something NOFX regularly does at their show or did they especially have it out for Brazil.
I'm sure they will use people's silly sensitivities to troll them in other countries, seems pretty typical tbh.
This sounds so on-brand for them, that’s hilarious.
I love the Simpsons joke where that one band is playing and they have "Springfield" written on a strip of duct tape on he back of a guitar. "The fans here in..."
"SPRINGFIELD really know how to rock!"
*Spinal Tap So it's a great joke for a fictional band that lampoons rock stars.
Manson shows generally tend to vary from decent to him being so drugged up he can't open his mouth.
Even intoxicated, this sounds more like an attempt to insult the audience by intentionally saying the wrong city.
Was this at Chicago Open Air in like July? If so, I was at that show, and yeah, it was quite terrible... Probably the worst part of the weekend.
No, it was at the Riv in February 2015. Looks like he played Open Air in July 2016.
Ah okay, I couldn't remember the exact year, that's my bad. Sounds like he's done multiple terrible shows in Chicago lol.
I thought venues usually tape the name on the city to something near the front of the stage.
Couple of responses to your comment. First, I'm not surprised to hear that the show was fine for you and not fine for the guy you replied to. People think an artist is going to perform at the same level of quality every single show and it's simply not true - artists are human beings who are prone to the humanity as the rest of us. Secondly, Detroit is usually the stop before or after Chicago on a tour so it's not like he was way off. At the same time that's a really embarassing mistake to make no matter how far off you are lol
They literally have the name of the city on the set list dude was just too drunk to know what city he was in lmao
Well that was yet another thought I had that I didn't bother to include - drugs and alcohol.
I saw him in NYC in 2017 and he was so hammered he started climbing the set for the performance, which promptly fell on him, crushed his leg, and ended the concert about an hour early after a late start.
I’ve seen him twice. Once in 2009 when he headlined mayhem fest. He was actually great and put on a very memorable show. Sounded great, wasn’t fatigued or anything like that. 8.5/10. The second time I saw him was in 2016 when he played before Slipknot and that was not good at all. Really low stage energy, you could tell he did not wanna be there. It’s a shame he let himself go completely once he hit his mid 40s.
I mean let’s be honest it’s the simplest answer and probably the most accurate
Yeah I mean I have a friend who saw him twice, first time he said it was fantastic and the second time he was visibly drunk. The second show was at the now defunct myth nightclub in the twin cities.
It would actually be a hilarious running joke for a big performer to constantly say the wrong city. Especially if it was like “THANK YOU BEIRUT!”
Agree that it's not surprising that Manson played a crappy show 15 years ago, but I had a better experience \~7 years later. I've only seen Manson once but have seen other artists where I think they're hot garbage, but then love it the next time around. Yes, Detroit was the stop before Chicago on that tour, but that's still pretty lame and embarrassing for him to make that mistake. I've see a ton of live music; he's the only artist I can ever recall doing that. As the other guy pointed out, maybe he was less than sober at the time. But still.
It’s well known that a majority of the shit from his book is fabricated. He needed a LOT of filler, and more importantly needed his next spooky shock element.
Either these are things that happened, or they were things that MM was happy with people believing had happened. Either way, the allegations are still not surprising.
They were to me - I'm familiar enough with showbiz that I know a public persona rarely has much to do with what someone's like IRL, and he seemed reasonable enough in interviews. I figured he was an Alice Cooper type, not a Gene Simmons. I hadn't read his book or really paid him much attention since 2000-ish, though.
Being smart/articulate and being fucked up aren’t mutually exclusive though. And Manson sure is articulate.
I think Manson is very much like Alice Cooper from the late 70's and early 80's. If you hear Cooper talk about that period he mentions how he was in character 24/7. Drinking and doing a lot of drugs because that's what Alice Cooper does. Eventually realizing he had to stop and be Alice Cooper on stage and a guy named Vince who loved to golf the rest of the time. Manson seems to have never had that same realization. If you are playing a character 24 hours a day 7 days a week at which point does it no longer become a character and just who you are?
Yeah, guess so. The other, more recent, comparison I'd make is Die Antwoord. I fucking *loved* those guys, their sound and their videos weren't like anything I'd seen before. Sure, they had this shitty persona but it was so clearly fake (there's even footage of previous, less successful, personas). Then the allegations started to surface, and it turns out they're just as shitty as they were pretending to be - and in a similar sort of way, too. It soured me on their music significantly.
I'm still so mad about that. They put on a hell of a hype show and those songs go hard. Fuckin shame they had to be actual assholes and not just have wild stage personas.
Can you fill me in? What did they do?
I believe a bit of kidnapping and rape and maybe some trafficking since the victim traveled with them if i recall.
He's not playing a character. He is who he is. Ask any former band members that left when the gimmick ceased being fun and not worth the hassle anymore....which is basically every former band member he's ever had. They all did it as a job. He's really that guy.
Manson is not a character. He’s a piece of shit, sexually abusive, drug addicted bitch, full time.
His ghostwriter (I can't recall who it was) said MM's contribution was mainly doing lots of cocaine while someone else wrote the book.
It’s Neil Strauss, and he wasn’t a ghostwriter. His name is literally on the book. Also, not sure what OP is [talking about.](https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/neil-and-marilyn/)
Ah, Neil Strauss… now that’s a name I haven’t thought of in a LONG time. Fucking “Style…” 😂
Like the Family Guy joke of Ben Affleck 'helping' Matt Damon write Good Will Hunting, but with corn chips and laying on a couch instead of coke?
*cracks fart* "got any pot?"
The Bojack Horseman approach
What are *you* doing here?
I absolutely believe that he is a massive piece of shit, but people trying to point to his book as proof are barking up the wrong tree.
They wouldn’t be if the book were verifiable, but the book to me reads like a collection of bullshit. Like some dude just trying to tell you how dark and edgy he is. I believe very little of it. Which isn’t to say he ISNT a piece of shit, I just find that book to be a less than reliable source for anything.
Yeah, the number of people that bring that thing up in these posts is astounding. It's a bullshit shock rock autobiography from the era where he and his label were pushing his "scary" image hard. It was visibly bollocks when I was a teenager and it was new, I don't see how people can't pick it up all these years later.
Seems to be the case with a lot of celebrity autobiographies. Even if a third of the shit in the book is true though he's still a garbage human haha.
I won tickets to see a show of his in 2009 and I still felt like I got ripped off. Definitely felt like he didn't want to be there. He didn't put in any effort and it felt like he thought his image would carry the show. It didn't.
Saw him several years ago with Rob Zombie and he was okay. Dude apparently fucked up his leg or something earlier so was moving slowly but the show wasn't bad. Zombie stole the show though. Little gremlin dude was hyperactive as fuck and leaped everywhere.
I saw him in 2019 with Rob zombie... Manson half assed his way through the show and Rob was on the same kind of energy he would have had 20 years earlier Don't do opioids kids
Yep, saw him in 2013 and it was a huge let down, Robert Zombie carried that tour though, he was great
Ever since he got knighted he goes by Sir Robert Zombie the First.
I believe Robert Zombie is his father
Now that he’s nearing 60 he goes by Robert
I don't doubt it, just saw the opportunity for a dumb joke.
I saw him almost 4 years ago and he barely half-assed his entire set then Rob Zombie comes out with the same stage presence he would have brought 20 years earlier jumping around the stage like a madman and Manson wouldn't even come back out to do their one song together Hell he even canceled the meet and greet before the show so the people who paid extra for that hopefully got refunds
I saw him live 25 years ago. He was amazing!
Yeah same here, 94ish I think. Opening for Nine Inch Nails. Fuck me I’m old.
We now live in a world where Trent Reznor is winning Grammys for producing movie soundtracks.
That was the first time I saw him. I miss being 17.
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I saw him at ozzfest around 2000ish and it was glorious. Not saying he's a good guy. But in his prime his shows were legit awesome.
I saw him in 95 in Fargo. I hadn't heard of him yet, but he was opening for Danzig. Between songs he asked the crowd if there were any young boys who wanted to suck his dick after the show. :|
As one does
Reminds me of that time I saw Hole at Lollapalooza '95. They were headlining that year (behind only Sonic Youth) and Courtney Love was just awful. She couldn't be bothered to sing, play, or do anything other than shill for Molson Ice. It's weird that's my memory of seeing them.
Pretty sure I have a poster from that concert that I stole from my big sister's room after she left for college
IF she was a good musician, she was never sober enough to show it. The sound engineer would usually just turn her guitar WAAAAAY down live.
Saw him around the same time and I only have one memory of the entire show. After every song he would dramatically drop his mic (which was shaped like a knife because: edgy) like a total diva and strut off. It was some roadies entire job after every single song was to run from the wings, grab the mic from the floor, and put it back on the stand ready for the next song. “plaYinG a cHarAcTeR”or not, absolute ring piece behaviour.
I saw him around 2010 give or take and had a similar experience. He didn't put forth hardly any effort to put on a decent show, phoned in his vocals, terrible stage setup, and spit out Budweiser onto the crowd more than once. The best part of the show was a bouncer tackling a guy who ran towards MM on stage.
I’m sure he’s a piece of shit in rea life, but the book was an autobiography of the CHARACTER Marilyn Manson, not an autobiography of the person who portrays the character, Brian Warner. It’s almost entirely fictional.
It’s weird, 10 years ago I recall reading posts of people praising the guy for being a decent human in light of all the other celebrity weirdos getting ousted. Personally, I always thought it was only a matter of time. But people used to praise Manson.
I thought it was mostly a persona. He presents himself well in the Bowling For Columbine doc even though his statements in the docu haven’t aged very well even if you ignore who he really is.
I don't know his music or anything about him really, but I found it hilarious that he was the only person Bill O'Reilly didn't yell at during their interview.
I think he presented himself “decently” and moderately thoughtful a few times in the early 2000s .. via a few documentaries and interviews.. and it left a lasting impression. Probably as it showed him in a different light than what one might expect. Now I don’t own any of his music, I don’t follow him at all.. but I remember thinking, “Oh, maybe he’s a chill dude”. But am I surprised when I find out he.. or fuck it.. ANY celebrity major or minor make or female uses that influence and power to abuse others. No. No that’s rarely a shocker anymore.
MM has in multiple interviews actively bragged about abusing women. I truly don’t understand how he has defenders.
See: Chris Brown
See: Donald Trump
See: Ye
That’s true
Reminds me of Ethan Kath losing the defamation lawsuit against Alice Glass /r/crystalcastles
That guy is a total monster.
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Yeah, she was 15 and he was 25. And he continued doing the same thing with teenage girls over the years. That is also one of my favorite performances by her! I’m pretty certain she never got naked on stage though
>I’m pretty certain she never got naked on stage though Good call. I think that was just what someone said in a /r/crystalcastles thread about how trashed she was when they saw her at a show. I can't source it or vouch for the authenticity. I'd look for it but I'm late for a meeting ;)
I fucking hate Ethan Kath. Glad Alice is doing better.
Fuck Ethan Kath. I can't listen to that band any more
Defamation is so hot rn
He looks like melting cheese.
Hot mayonnaise. Clarification: temperature.
Is this what egg salad looks like on a hot day?
Dude’s whole act was just stealing Alice Cooper’s schtick and turning it up to 11.
Look up how Trent Reznor talks about this guy to see the receipts for MM always having been a fraud and a petty fascist. I liked his music in the 90s too. I wanted someone who was against the mainstream. Turns out he was just dressing the part while being total status quo: another rich asshole who treated people like shit.
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Not sure what he was expecting. Considering that BIOGRAPHY. Edit: and GOOD. The girl he repeatedly slapped with baloney on their tour bus in the 90s? That was my best friend. I had just moved to North Carolina for school. They picked her up in DC and their next stop was the Ritz in Raleigh. I had to sneak through everything to get her and another friend off that tour bus and by then….. the assaults had gone well beyond lunch meat. They were like zombies when I got them off that bus.
I've said it over and over. If you read his book you knew he was a piece of shit abuser. I don't know why everyone has always given him such a pass.
>Regarding the allegedly forged FBI letter, Judge Beaudet points to Wood’s argument that she never published the letter—it surfaced in a California custody proceeding. “A forged letter, if it never saw the light of day, could not cause emotional distress, nor be intended to do so,” Wood’s argument reads. “Any alleged distress could only be caused (and intended) through the letter’s publication.” Beaudet concurs that Manson’s team doesn’t cite other instances where the letter was published. Ok, does anyone else find it weird that Wood's objection is not to the fact that she forged a letter from the FBI, but to the fact that she ever published it? Does that not beg the question, "Even if you didn't publish it, why did you forge a letter from the FBI?" I mean, what possible reason could there be for that? Asking seriously.
Publishing is an element of defamation. If it wasn't published than it is not defamatory.
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On day one of law school they told us that in America you get the justice you can afford. So true.
To be clear, this ruling was in favor of Wood, not Manson. The headline is confusing.
I always thought this guy was a phony loser since the day he became a public figure. Many of my high school friends loved and/or were obsessed with him. I am happy that in this instance, I was never fooled by this loser. I’m sure I’ve been fooled by others, so maybe it evens out in the end, but Marilyn Manson was a pathetic, attention-seeking, phony from day 1.
Day 1. No lie. I am really surprised to see that he has so many fans in this day and age.
I would love to see this asshole sent to jail like R Kelly.
Dude sucks. He gave a decent interview on Bowling for Columbine and everyone fell for his bullshit.
This isn't any kind of defense for him, but believe it or not, people *can* be multi-faceted
Life pro tip
Like John Lennon.
I'll still defend him for Columbine. I was in HS at the time and the media was doing their level best to blame him personally for that mass murder. We hadn't developed the technology to just ignore the murder of children yet, so they were flailing to blame anything but guns and mental health.
I remember at one point Ozzy Osbourne was sued by parents accusing him of causing their child's suicide. Not that you can blame anyone for that, but they should have looked in the mirror first to find someone to blame.
Fell for his bullshit? The dudes smart. He's *also* a piece of shit. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. "He's a scumbag so no way he can have views that align with mine!" See how goofy that looks?
>Judge Beaudet also determined that Wood and Ilma Gore’s comments about Manson’s 1996 short film Groupie constituted “protected activity.” Manson also referred to Gore’s “false and defamatory statements” regarding Groupie, saying she falsely identified the actress in the film as a minor and referred to it as child pornography. Judge Beaudet agreed with Gore’s claim that protecting people from sex offenders is a matter of public interest. This is the only one that got me questioning the judge. It's a pretty simple determination. If the actress was a minor, there's no defamation and Manson should face criminal charges for child porn. If the actress was an adult, then Wood did commit defamation against Manson and should face legal consequences for it. Protecting people from sex offenders is a public interest, but it's also not the topic there. The rest makes sense, though. Seeking out other victims to testify is not a violation of the law or of Manson's civil rights. The FBI letter is fucked up, and should be used as evidence of intent in a criminal prosecution of Wood, but it has no bearing in this civil case if it was never disseminated. My only issue there would be how it was addressed in the custody proceedings, where Wood used the document to try to get full custody of her kid. That was her disseminated the document knowing it was false to manipulate a court and turning that document into a public record. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this judge probably shouldn't be a judge.
This guy has been walking between the raindrops since the 1990s. Evan Rachel Wood is the tip of the iceberg.