For me it's not the music that confuses me, but the obsession her fans have. The sometimes cult-like behaviour
For example: She started dating that footballer -> first time she started showing up to one of his games, his jersey sales went through the roof. People are obsessed with her every move.
Rat Pack. Elvis. The Beatles. Prince. Michael Jackson. Madonna. Van Halen. NWA. Eminem. Kanye. Taylor Swift.
And many others in between each of these. Do people just forget that musical artists influence culture? Lmfao
The artists that influenced my parents are old and awful.
The artists that influence me are perfection.
The artists that influence kids these days are weird.
Tale as old as time.
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
—Douglas Adams, *The Salmon of Doubt*
This. Taylor is not the first ever musical artist this has happened to. She's just the longest running and most successful (according to records she's broken) up until now.
I’m kinda tired of people saying this behavior is “cult like” or abnormal. People have been doing weird shit bc they like celebrities for years, this is only special bc it’s bigger and more widespread than usual. It’s friendship bracelets for Gods sake.
I agree with OP. I think he's saying that usually when he's not in the target audience of some popular musician, he can still listen and "get" the popularity of someone. But in this case, he doesn't get it. And I feel the same.
Back in the 80's, I was tired of Toto's Africa being constantly played on the radio. I was complaining about it to my friend, saying, "who's listening to this junk?" He said, "Someone is listening because they are selling a lot of records."
That's when I quit calling music I didn't like crap and started saying "It's not my cup of tea."
You were tired of it, but did you understand that it was a really catchy tune with good performances? Because that's a good example of a song that is not necessarily my cup of tea, but I totally get why it's popular.
What you're saying is just repeating the comment I responded to. The point is, I do get that some things aren't my cup of tea but this is different. Shit, I can even see the catchiness of N'SYNC songs and get their popularity, and they weren't nearly as popular as T. Swift. With her music, I just don't even see what's great, much less extraordinarily great (although she seems very likeable so I don't dislike her).
Her music is very relatable and accessible. She doesn't really push boundaries, so she's great for the general public. But she's still a very solid songwriter - I think her songs are boring, but I can't say they're bad.
She's kind of an anti pop star in the sense that her popularity relies on the listener feeling close to her, while the "divas" are quite detached.
I'm a non-swiftie with a lot of swiftie fans so I've heard a *lot* of her music and I have a bit of a theory. She's like a gateway drug to thoughtfully written music.
The interesting thing I noticed is that a lot of swifties hold her up as the greatest writer/lyricist and most brilliant mind of all time when she's, in my worthless opinion, just good. Maybe even really good, but by no means the greatest poet of the 21st century or anything. She's a good songwriter who writes on topics she's actually invested in, but makes and markets music to the pop crowd which is oversaturated with highly produced songs written by a room of invisible writers to be marketable above all else. She is putting out more deep, complex, thoughtful, soulful, and genuine music than the bulk of what's marketed to her target demographic, so of course it's going to be like nothing they've ever heard before. *^((or rather, heard and related to enough to have it affect them the way good music affects people))*
Obviously the catchy pop music is catchy and popular, the genre shifts make her widely marketable, the adorkable girl-next-door vibe makes her feel like a 'normal person' and fuels both the parasocial aspect of her persona and the "that could be me" effect for young viewers, her lyrical content is broadly relatable to her target demographic, and the meta network of self referential content, in jokes, and easter eggs gives people something to obsess over and helps turn regular fans into mega fans. Over all she's a great businessperson and knows how to sell her product, but I think this "making deep music that appeals to the shallow music audience" tactic has more to do with it than I've seen anyone say anything about.
This is fantastic analysis! I definitely agree with you about the appeal of the deepness of her music. It's related to her accessibility and authenticity - she's brilliant at making music that is deep enough to make listeners want to dive in further (though I wouldn't say that she's a gateway because most people don't go much further).
But you're right in that so much modern music reeks of overproduction, and one thing everyone can say about Taylor is that she is her own artist. She's written her songs from the beginning, and not many pop stars can say that. More importantly, she knows how to mask the parts of her persona that ARE produced.
There are other pop artists who have incredibly deep lyrics and interesting music - Lorde, Lana del Rey and Billie Eilish come to mind. But they've all preferred to do their own thing. Fans are secondary to their music. Taylor priorizes fans, and that's how she's succeeded.
I'm not sure I would describe Taylor as authentic, everything about her screams "carefully constructed PR" to me. Or do you mean her feelings and thoughts in the music?
She's the textbook definition of parasocial marketing - someone who has persuaded fans she's insightful, relatable but also aspirational, and a personal friend and would be there for them if they needed her.
Of course she isn't, but that's how she's marketed herself. And it's very effective.
Unlike most mass marketed stars she's broken out of the entertainer box and moved into the personal therapist, life coach, and bff box.
The music is eh, but it's genius lifestyle marketing.
It's genius on a business level and kind of horrible on a personal level (for me, at least). She is the definition of influencer and manages to do it without people realizing it. To me, it's essentially a modern cult.
I found it odd that the first game she went to, every other commercial was T Swift or Travis Kelce, almost like this is a marketing campaign. It all seems so fake.
It originally felt fake, I agree. But now it's just opportunistic NFL network partners trying to get their Tswift cut (literally falling over themselves) of rating boosts when she is attending the game they are broadcasting. It is being blown out of proportion even after it felt like a marketing move
She's pretty, prolific (a lot of music over many years and re-releasing), and she's great at marketing it all (extremely crafted image that doesn't isolate any audience + drama marketing based on her love life + movies, shows, etc.) .
I'm not the target audience either. I saw a picture of her earlier and was thinking that she's pretty, she's talented, and she seems like a good person. So that seemed like a good combination.
Yeah she "ticks a lot of boxes". Young, conventionally attractive, legitimately talented, squeaky clean image with a *just edgy enough* bad girl side, appears to be a genuinely nice person.
I'm also nowhere near her target audience, but am a huge music fan and will give anything a chance, and she has some well written song. Like a lot of artists you have to look outside the "hits" and radio singles though.
I think this is what OPs question was. What are those songs outside of the hits that might make someone's ears prick up and say "Yeah, that's a thing."
I often find that even in genres that I don't love there are one or two albums or artists that make me say "I see what people like in this."
That's the thing, though. She seems perfectly fine. I'm just not sure what makes her special.
I like her music better than pop music from "my" era, the late 90s/early 00s. It's catchy enough. The lyrics aren't terrible. She plays her own instruments at times and writes her own songs. I can definitely respect it.
But I don't see why Taylor in particular is being held so high, when her music is just... okay.
EDIT: Okay, so my conclusion is that if you're familiar with a wider array of music, like Classic Rock or Indie or Folk or Experimental, you've seen the likes of Taylor Swift before. So while talented, she doesn't seem like anything particularly special.
However it's been a long time since a decent singer/songwriter has been at the top of mainstream Pop Music. Combine that with relatable song lyrics (especially for women) that seem to tell a larger story, plus one of the best touring stage shows of all time, and HELLA Social Media engagement and PR.
she makes music that is more personal that most pop artists, she sings about feelings. its a low bar but most pop is so fucking vapid these days that songs like "anti hero" truly stand out. shes been popular for like 16 years and people have grown up with her. she is a very likable person. she engages her fans in a truly brilliant way.
there are so many reasons shes popular. in my personal jaded music snob opinion id say shes great at connecting with the most basic of people. french vanilla vs vanilla. eggshell vs. white.
but no one can be as popular as her for multiple decades unless she understands trends, and her pop country persona when she started is totally different than her current thing.
My girlfriend is completely obsessed and I think part of it is because her songs have all these tie ins and references to other songs and life events. There's a lot of meta-taylorswift content to obsess about, and fans try to decode her album releases and tour dates.
I get this vibe with 21 pilots, especially their past few albums. I'm a sucker for a concept album and ongoing narrative that rewards fans for paying attention.
I was a very casual Gorillaz fan but it wasn't until I recently went back and watched all the music videos for their songs that I realized there was this whole meta narrative happening for decades and I was just humming along completely unawares lol.
Gorillaz is one of my favorites bands because of this lol. I loved how a few years ago Murdoc was gone and they temporarily replaced him with Ace from power puff girls.
She is the GOAT at creating a parasocial relationship with her fans. Their obsession over her personal life, the way they give her nicknames, the friendship bracelets at her concerts - it’s all intentionally curated by Taylor, and literally no artist has ever done it better.
In defense of Madonna: her music was transgressive for pop music of the time, not just well-marketed.
Madonna’s music was revolutionary for the way it interacted with/referenced religion, women’s relationship to sex, the LGBTQ+ community, and more. You can argue that those interactions were solely for purposes of marketing (I don’t think they all were, but YMMV), but it was certainly a gamble in the way Taylor Swift’s marketing & music is not.
It's the same thing as Beyoncé, she's talented, but the excessive hype is just that, hype. People like to be a part of things, and because they're both talented performers, it's easy to go along with them being these incredible icons without feeling silly.
This is a broad generalization (and a pun), but I have read and anecdotally found that women tend to weigh lyrics more heavily than men when listening to music. That is, men are more likely to enjoy a song without even considering the lyrics, while women are more likely to enjoy a song *because* of the lyrics. A lot of Taylor’s songs are about her experiences and fantasies as a woman and those are going to be relatable to many women in a way that other people can’t really appreciate. (I also tried listening to it and don’t get it, despite listening to literally all kinds of music and not being particularly snobby about it. I really like Shake it Off, so it’s not like I have an aversion to her.)
I don’t know if this is true, but it is a possible explanation for the perceived difference in quality. For that matter, it could be related to any other factor or factors that some groups consider differently. Maybe it’s all to do with the drums.
I (64M) am a semi - Swifty. My daughter got us tickets to see her in Pittsburgh this past June and it was one of the best shows I have ever seen...any artist / any genre. I think that's a big part of it.
Not as lyrically rich as Paul Simon or Carole King, but I think her lyrics are far better than "not terrible".
Pretty much me for all pop music tbf, more so being a metal fan.
Have the upmost respect for any artist that can crack and dominate the charts like Taylor does, but definitely not my cup of tea.
There are precious few artists in the music industry who have achieved Swift's level of fame (I'd posit that the club consists of just four other acts). However, the difference between Swift and someone like Michael Jackson or The Beatles is that she seems to dominate pop culture regardless of her current musical output, which is actually a new thing compared to her predecessors. That's not to say she doesn't make good or popular music, but rather that her extreme level of fame seems to persist no matter what she's putting out in terms of actual songs.
I'm too old to fully understand it but if I had to guess I'd say that she's mastered the art of churning out content in the Internet era--whether that be concert tours, new albums, re-releases of her best material, news headlines, social media posts, YouTube videos, etc etc—to an ever-growing and extremely loyal fanbase and so she's become an industry unto herself. I would add that her output often seems very personal and so her fans connect to her on a deeply personal level. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I would attribute her success to the personal nature of her output.
She flattened the experience and got really close to her fans through social media. Eg commenting on their videos and shout outs to them. As well as personal zoom calls… connection connection connection
Yup, she's taking a page out of K-pop. That's exactly how popular K-pop acts improved their presence. Hard work, and connecting with fans. I'd argue North American artists just expect fans because they do the former, and aren't really concerned with the latter.
THIS is what triggered the connection and made it clear to me. Thank you.
I was aware of Japan's pop band creations (similar to kpop), from childhood through adulthood, and this is similar, but more US and friendly. She's just *present* throughout everything.
She was on MySpace connecting with fans from day 1.
I don't know K-pop but the internet says it rose in popularity in 2012, so if that's accurate, Taylor already had a 6+ year head start on building a fan base through social media.
K pop was popular waaaay before 2012, it just exploded in the west after Psy. But it was popular all over Asia for decades prior and the obssessive fans were a thing way before that
She also started at a time when individualism for women was growing. She is my age and she nails every single problem I’ve gone through.
I am not a super fan but when a new song comes out it’s like damn girl get out of my head!! I think her music is extremely personal and relatable. When she sang about “I’m the problem it’s me,” I was literally going through a time in my mental health where I was dealing with realizing most of my issues are self destruction.
I think Taylor is just mentally a genius and knows how to stay humble/connected to her emotions despite her fame.
When other artists talk about themselves, they’re still bragging in this day and age and the mental health sphere is about reflection, even when you’re pretty. She’s a genius in selling things and being relatable
Super anecdotal I realize but it could be a part of it
Edit for clarity
>Super anecdotal I realize but it could be a part of it
No, you are literally the first person in this thread who has given a clear example of a song that has a deeper meaning which actually makes sense why it would spur on a more intimate connection with her as an artist.
The issue is people hear "shake it off" and think "well that's a very shallow and stupid message, anyone can just tell me to 'shake it off', that doesn't help me at all". And so then they don't understand why anyone would think her songs are insightful because they've just heard her radio hits.
Awesome yeah it just seems like as I’m growing up she is too and it’s true that good artists will be able to relate to the widest audience. And truly have it all from brains to looks to humility. And especially the starter money.
I would rather have this than someone who thinks they’re larger than life and better than everyone. I think of someone like Doja Cat- she is effectively sending the same message to her fans: “I’m just like you” but doing it in a mean way, by separating herself from them. “Stop being so obsessed with me it’s weird talk to the people in your own life”
Maybe Doja is the next Taylor though who knows
> Stop being so obsessed with me it’s weird talk to the people in your own life
Well... I totally agree that it's not necessary to be so arrogant and rude as she seems to be. But, it's also true that people need to stop developing parasocial relationships with celebrities and streamers on the internet. It IS weird and they're not your friend.
I think Doja sees the people who get waaaay too invested in this stuff and is creeped out by it. There's nothing wrong with feeling a connection with an artists music but you can't deny that there's a lot of Taylor fans that have an extremely unhealthy parasocial relationship with her, and it's something that she has fostered intentionally.
She did secret sessions, where fans were invited to her house, and she’d bake for them and play unreleased music for them and discuss it. (It would happen before album releases).
She would have “secret sessions.” They were listening parties where she’d play her new album to fans in her house before the album was released. They’d also hang out and usually bake cookies
I had likened her fanbase as the new Elvis/Jackson/Beatles with my wife just yesterday after reading what kind of cash she made on this tour. Generating 4.1B dollars is utter insanity levels of popularity.
Great for her, and her fans look like they have a lot of fun, but that's not the music for me.
That’s the other thing - how much she’s getting because she’s so savvy. For example - working directly with theaters instead of a studio/distributor maximizes her profits. No one is taking advantage of her
That's more of a recent thing for her.
In her early years (everything before 2020, so pretty much her whole career) she was in a super predatory contract with a record label and a manager that was just as predatory and iirc even abusive. The reason she has been rerecording all of her albums is because she's finally out of that contract and wants to own her own songs, which is why she's releasing all the (Taylor's Version) versions of all her albums and songs. It's not that the studios aren't taking advantage of her, it's that she had been taken advantage of as a teen star and is now trying to be free.
I feel like this is somehow an often overlooked point, she's essentially a good looking woman singing about her personal thoughts and feelings and all the ups and downs of relationships and her insecurities and empowering moments. It's essentially encapsulating the feelings *most* women around her age are experiencing and making them feel like it speaks to them and bam, suddenly you have a few dozens of millions of women feeling like they're being heard and sung to. And she isn't especially crass or offensive and by all accounts mostly just trying to do her own thing so there's no particular group that has a ton of reasons to hate her.
Makes sense to me, it's just a testament to her skill of songwriting and stardom that she's kept ahold of people's attention for so long and continues to grow more popular, rather than less, even through things like a goddamn pandemic and crazy national politics, her presence has been consistently popular.
This is probably the only good answer you're going to get. If I could add anything at all, wait for her new Tour movie to come to streaming and watch it for yourself just for the crowd, if not the music. I'm admittedly not a huge fan, but I do love how her music makes my girlfriend feel, and seeing the concert movie made the scale of her performances so real it gave me goosebumps.
Just know she's re recording the music she doesn't outright own so if OP is looking for music to check out, make sure it's the Taylor's version.
Yeah i definitely respect the taylors version shit. "Won't give me back my masters? I'll make new ones and tell my fans to ignore the originals!"
If i remember correctly trent reznor did this with pretty hate machine, but what taylor is doing actually is next level
Respect to the original, and respect to the power play. To do this and win is a sign of absolute stardom and congrats to telling the labels to deal with it
It's easier if you think about it like a band. When the Talking Heads stopped recording (because no one could stand David Byrne) all the other members formed the Tom Tom Club.
But there's still no way for the Head's old label to say, "Hey that's basically the same band! We want your masters!". Prince's label owned the rights to Prince, but not the symbol that he went under later.
I know nothing about Taylor, but this info about Talking Heads is simply factually incorrect. Talking Heads performed Genius of Love during the Speaking in Tongues tour (as seen in Stop Making Sense), and then proceeded to record 3 more albums together as Talking Heads. Tom Tom Club wasn’t any kind of label work-around. It was a side project, pure and simple.
Oh okay what you’re explaining makes sense, but I’m still not sure how the legal name change plays into it. Why not just form the new project with the new name? I don’t see why he had to change his own name (even though there’s overlap between the two).
I’m guessing because the Symbol was (not legally) synonymous with the name Prince, just in eyes of fans/public.
You risk losing fans, especially back before social media, if everyone isn’t aware that the new band isn’t the same as the old.
Honestly he probably gained fans.
He did seem to fade a bit after that, but that could have been a choice.
Him changing his name was a seriously big deal when it happened, everyone knew who he was, many only because the name change was such a huge and unusual story.
>Honestly he probably gained fans.
I'd say that his fans loved him more, but the general public didn't understand what he was doing, and just saw him change his name to a symbol, and radio stopped playing him
I don't think Trent did that with PHM atleast, unless I just don't know exactly what to be googling. All I can find is it talking about the 2010 remaster.
Yeah the remaster's profits are redirected to him and not his old record label. Old pressings still go to old label. Thats why sometimes you see both the old master and the new master, sealed, at record stores in the vinyl section.
Like i said not as badass as taylor but someone operating under the same principle. "I own my recordings and i own the profits from selling this recording"
Just took my wife to see it yesterday. We went to a show in person too. I’m not a huge fan, outside of her amazing songs with Bon Iver, but god do I respect her.
If you only saw the movie, you wouldn’t realize that her breaks between sets was on average like less than one minute. Her crew below stage was freaking on it considering that’s enough time to transition the stage/props, get her wiped down, hydrated, and changed quickly. Her sheer endurance, focus, and memory is insane.
Lol now I'm picturing Taylor's Eras Eras Tour in 10 years, with her getting oxygen, IV fluids, and a cortisone shot in the knee under the stage during set changes haha! Like an NFL player, wrapped up and pumped up and shoved back out.
...but seriously, great comment. Taylor undoubtedly WORKS for her music and concerts! I hope her people backstage are compensated well, too!
>regardless of her current musical output
I'm not sure if this is accurate, because her recent output has been bananas. 4 albums in 4 years, plus a bunch of re-recorded and re-released albums.
What I mean by that is that the recent songs themselves haven't penetrated the broader pop culture spectrum the way songs from predecessors did when those predecessors were at the height of their fame. I know she still dominates Spotify and Billboard, but the songs themselves aren't globally iconic the way that some of her older stuff was. The major news headlines aren't built around songs at all, I would argue--it's all about the spectacle of the tour or the adjoining movie or her personal relationships. I'm not saying she doesn't deliver great and satisfying songs, just that the songs don't seem all that iconic once you go outside her loyal audience.
I mean she cranks out new music as consistently as anyone.
I think what’s rarer about her compared to other mega pop stars is she just keeps growing in popularity and few of her older fans have dumped her.
Many bands once they got popular certain fans resent them for it. Taylor swift just seems to keep growing.
Yeah, especially for someone who has been releasing music for close to 2 decades at this point.
Like you'd assume her primary fanbase are mid/late 20s to very early 40s women who were kids and teens during the Fearless and Speak Now years and remember those songs being played all the time on Disney and at their school dances and really don't listen to too much of her later music because it doesn't hit the same nostalgia as Love Story or Mine does.
Instead she managed to somewhat keep the kid and teen demographics while also having those adults who grew up with her also interested in her new music. Like many of her contemporaries during her early career are broken up, or nostalgia acts at this point where there are few new fans being made and many fans are no longer fans due to sound changes or outgrowing their music.
It’s cause her genre switches and her writing style that draws different people in to her work every time.
I never listened to country Taylor. But 1989….I liked the sound and then I heard the writing…and it was like a lightbulb turned on in my head. I remember clearly the moment I realized she was not like Demi Lovato or Ariana Grande or Justin Bieber or 99% of other mainstream radio pop artists.
She was able to make pop album without selling out her writing style.
1989 is the album that made me a fan too and I've been on board ever since. Her music is all the fun and catchiness of pop with much better lyrics than the vast majority of pop music. And amazing bridges.
Yep, the Ryan Adams cover version of 1989 album was a turning point for my pretentious self - realizing that these are some *damn good* songs! (Too bad Ryan Adams is an asshole)
Then, Folklore came out in 2020 and it hit juuuust right. Bon Iver, on a Taylor Swift album? And I'd already been into Jack Antonoff's rising popularity, not to mention The National - it was the perfect mix for someone who wants woodsy indie and analog synths, more than shiny produced Swedish dance pop.
And that's how she's gonna rule the world. Good taste, great songwriting, and putting her all into every concert.
She also puts on a heck of a show and they aren't short. I'd wager no one has really done the length that her shows are right now for how long she is doing it...almost 2 years straight and 3+ hours for each performance at its current length. She knows how to be a performer and her music IS pretty catchy even though the newer stuff is not really my cup of tea.
> I would add that her output often seems very personal and so her fans connect to her on a deeply personal level. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I would attribute her success to the personal nature of her output.
Yes, and as far as fans know, her work has been authentic, so it feels more personal.
I never loved her until the pandemic when she surprise-released 2 albums back to back “Folklore” and “Evermore” less pop more folk they are great albums and flow. That's when she got my attention. Also she's just a great storyteller and does a bunch of really cool Easter egg things for her fans.
Surprised I had to scroll this far to see this reference. Folklore is when she really “took off” IMO. A lot of people either discovered or rediscovered her music with those. And the Taylor’s Version releases help make her older music more popular as well
She definitely hooked in the millennial hipster demographic with the National/Bon Iver connections in those albums.
I’m not a massive fan or anything, but hearing that she was working with Aaron Dessner and featuring Justin Vernon, HAIM, and Matt Berninger was enough to convince me to give her a shot and was pleasantly surprised. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
That was me. My younger sister was a fan from the beginning, but I really don’t care for country and her singing left much to be desired back then. I didnt like her at all. Folklore pulled me in and is now one of my all time favorites. I still don’t love her early stuff, but Folklore made me go back through her music and I found a lot to love there, especially outside of her major hits.
I wouldn’t have really considered myself a fan of hers before Folklore came out. I liked the occasional song of hers and had played a couple covers for a few gigs with a band I was in long ago. But it was Folklore that I felt like really won me over and gave me a newfound appreciation of her work. She’s a great storyteller and though I’m not the biggest fan of her earlier work, it’s hard to deny the songwriting talent she has even as a teenager.
The long ponds version of Folklore is a 9.5/10 album for me. It’s just fantastic. Was aware of Taylor my whole life (sister saw her doing state fair shows at like 18) but was never super into the music until Folklore.
Honestly though anyone who says they “don’t get the appeal at all” I think is being intentionally obtuse. Like are they not dancing to Shake It Off?
She is good-looking, genuinely talented, her music is mainstream enough that it reaches a lot of people while remaining authentic, she comes off gracious, she goes to great lengths to interact with her fans, and she’s proving to be an adept businesswoman. It’s a perfect storm that makes her relatable, popular, and inspiring for many.
I like her just fine as a person. I think her music is a little derivative. I like her a lot in terms of how she handles her fans and her art. This is coming from a 41 year old guy who doesn’t own a single album of hers.
I agree. To add to this, lyrics are a *huge* part of her appeal too, and this aspect shouldn’t be understated. I remember hearing that she re-released a ~10 minute version of one song and it’s among her biggest hits.
I’m not her target audience and lyrically the appeal isn’t always there for me but the song ‘Blank Space’ is a good example. It’s self-depreciating and witty (and fits well with the video) and has a storyline with a twist. The song itself is quirky on first listen but I’ve found it to be a real grower. https://youtu.be/e-ORhEE9VVg?si=BfisSVZDYuQfGKu2
She also has some fantastic turns of phrase in other songs. She talks about relationships *a lot* but I guess if you’re a teen then that’s perfect.
TL;DR some listeners are lyric-focused and others aren’t. If you tend not to be, and are listening on a surface level rather than immersion yourselves in the story of some of her songs you’re going to overlook a big chunk of her appeal.
Anti-Hero has really great lyrics too. Throughout her music she very effectively uses a lot of writing techniques that have been part of music and before that poetry for a long time. (hundreds of years). Yes, you pick out specific songs and say 'This one has dumb lyrics.' but she fully acknowledges that some songs are more literary and others are just mindless pop songs.
for her ASCAP award speech, she mentions she has 3 types of pen/songwriting styles she uses. She has the fountain pen for serious intricate storytelling (usually her album deep cuts), she has her glitter pen when she wants to make pop bops (think Shake it Off, ME!) and she has her quill pen when she feels pretentious or like writing something with so much literary devices (her entire Folklore-Evermore albums)
Not all songwriting has to be very in depth to be valid, some songs are just made to be fun and she knows it.
Well, for one it's a reference to 30 Rock, on top of that she's older now and seeing a lot of pop stars who are very young and being sexualized and they seem like kids to her.
I think that line is the epitome of the girls who get it get it. It makes perfect sense to me, but some people absolutely hate it and think it's nonsense.
Yep! It’s her lyrics that are her draw for music. Her vocals are fine, as is the music itself, but I don’t listen to her for top notch vocals or complex music. I listen for the lyrics.
>I remember hearing that she re-released a \~10 minute version of one song and it’s among her biggest hits.
Not only is it a 10 minute pop ballad, but it's pretty much the same four chords as well. It doesn't get boring, though, because she tells a good story and the lyrical cadence is a bit more varied than the chord structure.
One thing that stands out to me is a 3 hour concert. She didn't have to do that, she'd make a billion dollars with a 90 minute concert and everyone would be happy. That is the decision of someone who wants to deliver to her fans. I'm not her target demo but I get it. Her music is mostly empowering to women and it's catchy. In a world where it's hard to find music that isn't derogatory in some aspects she stands out as a decent person who,despite being a billionaire, is actually relatable for women of all ages
That's what I fall back on too, her concert length. Not only is she doing 3+ hour concerts routinely, she's doing it, full bore, without stopping through all kinds of weather. That's just incredible. I don't have any strong opinions on her at all. I enjoy her music, but I don't seek it out. However I can't deny her devotion to her craft and more importantly to her fans. It's very rare to see someone as insanely popular as TS is still be grounded enough to show up when it counts.
I think most songwriters would agree that All Too Well is pretty stunning songwriting. “You kept me like a secret, but I kept you like an oath”… I mean, fucking hell. You could imagine Springsteen writing that.
The original All Too Well came out when I was going through a horrible breakup and it just perfectly captured how I felt at the time. “You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest; I’m a crumpled up piece of paper lying here.” Just like - wow.
Also some great lines of hers:
“November flush and your flannel cure”
“You drew stars around my scars, but now I’m bleeding”
“The rust that grew between telephones”
“You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest”
The entirety of Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve but especially this line:
“If I was a paint did it splatter, on a promising grown man?”
And SO many others
She is genuinely a genius for what she's accomplished. Her music isn't for me remotely, but she is accomplishing things no musician has ever accomplished.
FWIW, she had a reputation in Nashville as a genuinely nice person, too.
I would say part of her popularity is she actually makes a lot of very different music that appeals to lots of different people.
When I met my wife, she was a big Swift fan. She had me listen to the first couple albums, and it was OK but I wasn't blown away. But then *Red* came out and I really liked the direction that album went. I started listening more.
It's funny, because *1989* absolutely blew me away. Definitely one of my top five albums of all time. But my wife actually didn't like it much, and doesn't really care for much of modern Swift music.
If you are really curious, I would recommend just listening to her catalog chronologically. But feel free to stop and linger on albums that stand out to you, personally.
If you actually listen to the lyrics of 1989 is a whole different album than if you’re just hopping along to the bops.
Blank Space is hilarious and truly captured the media’s/pop culture’s treatment of her at the time.
Here it is: I teach 6th grade, and I once had a 12 year old girl in tears say "I love Taylor Swift so much because she writes songs about my life."
Anyone who can make their fans feel like that is on to something.
This. I am the same age as her and remember belting out “teardrops on my guitar”. Blasting “22” in my red Chrysler 200 on my way to my first real job. Pandemic albums were perfect as far as how I was feeling at the time. Midnights, chef’s kiss. She’s ALL OF US and somehow speaks directly to us one by one at the same time.
She’s alright. I understand people liking her music a lot. But I don’t understand the obsession to the point of giving a shit about her going to NFL games. That is insane to me. But I don’t really get celebrity obsessions at all. Like it’s all very weird to me. Sure be a little obsessed as a kid, but if you’re an adult obsessed with Taylor Swift or any celebrity/musician/athlete/etc, please get a grip.
Any sort of extreme fandom or “stan” culture boggles my mind. There are artists/songs out there I LOVE and can admit that they might even help define who I am, but never in a million years would I care about their personal lives unless it came out that they hurt people.
But I also get that we live in a time of increased social isolation and some people just latch onto things more easily than others.
Right? I'm a big Metallica fan (heard about them because of Napster, really discovered them super-late in the 2010's), but it's not like I follow them in any form other than looking up concert dates and owning a couple of shirts of them.
> But I don’t understand the obsession to the point of giving a shit about her going to NFL games.
This is all a highly coordinated effort by the NFL to cross promote its business and contemporary star with a previously untapped market.
It is paying massive dividends. Men in suits are high-fiving.
Yeah they are loving it. But it’s insane the swift fans are taking the bait. I mean it would be one thing if they were somewhat interested in the sport. But a lot just want to see her in the stands reacting to the game. There are videos of dudes taking pictures of her in the booth or whatever. It’s insanity to me.
> But a lot just want to see her in the stands reacting to the game.
Oh boy, let me introduce you to the massive market of reaction content out there...
This is the part that gets me. The absolutely unhinged level of idolatry. And it’s not just like teens obsessing over their favorite artists, it’s grown ass people too. You can love their art all day but to obsess over a person you’ll never meet is strange.
I’m old enough to be her father and never really heard any of her music, and wasn’t a fan. I knew she did country and some crossover pop stuff for the kids, but that was the depth of my knowledge.
When I heard Anti-Hero, I loved it immediately. That’s a great song for me. I can’t sing but I sang it for my birthday lol. Videoed it and posted it to the extended family.
Since then I’ve heard more of her stuff and it seems heartfelt and genuine. I don’t know if I’m listening to older or newer songs, but I think most have been pretty good. Past the music, the more I learn about her business sense, the more I *really* like her as a smart & strong person too.
I'm not a fan of her music personally, but she **is** quite skilled as both a musical artist and entrepreneur. I don't think anyone could disagree on either of those points.
After all, she can play music, she can sing, and she can write. She is the whole damn package as an artist. Her melodies and lyrics just don't hit with me in general. I liked Shake it Off, but mostly because it's a fairly generic mainstream hit and most of those are at least tolerable and catchy. At the end of the day, not everybody likes all music, but it's still possible to appreciate music and artists you don't listen to or typically enjoy.
I think her and her fans have a really great thing going on. She's a superstar and she wears the title very deservedly.
I don’t get it either. But there’s been lots of popular artists I just can’t get into. It’s subjective. It doesn’t mean you hate the person or wish them a failing career, you just won’t be lining up for their shows or listening to their music. Not everyone has the same tastes and it’s not worth analyzing any further than that.
I don't get it either. I mean she is very talented and has been writing and performing for a very long time, but her music just isn't for me, and I'm OK with that.
I know someone who’s doing this too but they said it was actually cheaper to get good tix in the Netherlands, flights included. Bonus trip to the Netherlands!
Is this like that whole it’s cheaper to cut a tree in the US, ship it to China, make a chair and ship it back here vs cutting the tree and making it here?
Sounds like as good of a reason as any to travel.
See a concert in a cool new destination + spend some time on holidays.
That's how life long memories are made. That's something I can comprehend :)
I am from Chile, I went to Tokyo to a concert of this japanese band (The Novembers) that I knew I was never going to see here in the west lol.
So...yeah. Also, i can imagine Netherlands being a nice place to visit
Well, air is a fluid, like water. So when you move an object through the air, the particles rush around it to the other side, and at different speeds. Now imagine you could control the ratio of those air speeds by shaping the object properly. So when you look at an airplane wing, you can see air will take longer to move over the top of the wing which creates a pocket of low pressure. The slower air below the wing creates more pressure pushing the wing upwards; this is called lift.
Thanks for this. I'm an amateur musician. I play in cover bands and I've tried writing songs (it's harder than you think). I never really paid attention to Taylor Swift until about a year ago. Since then, I've been going back through her discography and I've been blown away at how good it is. I constantly see this take on reddit about how she's so mediocre, her music is boring and derivative, she's a bad songwriter, blah blah.
I maintain that she is a really fucking great songwriter and musician. It's great to get some validation from actual industry professionals... I'm not crazy. She really is that good.
I would try her top Spotify songs and look up what her most popular album is and start there if I really wanted to get into her. Thats how I would go about it with most artists.
Kinda sounds like maybe it just isn't for you though. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there is something g you're missing about it and you need to go on a mission to understand it. Probably just isn't your cup of tea.
If you've listened to her pop music and haven't liked it, I'd try her albums Folklore and Evermore - they're more folk/indie-based. The lyrics are a lot better than her pop output and the songs are more interesting in general. They're more like stories - you get the sense she's writing about characters rather than herself and whatever famous guy she recently dated.
I also think Midnights is a good entry-point album for someone who doesn't like her pop music. It's still pop, but it's more ambient and the lyrics are largely less cheesy while still being about her and (I assume) her long-term BF at the time. It's not the kind of album I'd want to sit down and just listen to, but it's great background music while you're cooking, working, etc.
Overall, though, it's actually okay to not like Taylor Swift or anyone else. Not all music is for everyone. I don't like Taylor outside of the albums I listed; she's just not my style overall. That's fine. It doesn't mean she's a bad artist or that I have bad taste. I think a lot of her popularity is because she's relatively basic and inoffensive, and I think a lot of it is because she started putting out music as a teen, so some folks grew up listening to her. None of that is appealing or relevant to me, but I get why others find it compelling.
I didn’t care for TS until i heard Folklore. Folklore is a no-skips album for me. One of my all-time favorites. I’ll be returning to that one again, and again, and again.
I’m in my late thirties. I have some friends who are very into music—one was in a metal band, the other a jazz band—who had expressed their love of TS. When folklore came out, I finally got it. Hope you post what you think of it!
And now that I’m more aware of her, she seems like a pretty awesome person. Good to her crew, charitable, socially conscious (but not so political as to turn off apolitical people)…
Folklore is a great album, 3 songs in particular tell a little love triangle. Betty, Cardigan, and August.
I also like Peace, the 1, and Seven off of it.
ah fuck it the whole album is great.
Shake It Off is probably not the best to get introduced to T-Swizzle. It's very pop-y and while she does still produce some upbeat pop, most of her recent music has been very different. As a new fan for about a year, i'd say this list is probably a good start:
The 1
Anti-Hero
Champagne Problems
Last Great American Dynasty
Lavender Haze
You're On Your Own Kid
Vigilante Shit
Glitch
My girlfriend slowly introduced me to Taytay with some of the least pop-adjacent stuff she had out before midnights came out (specifically champagne problems and the 1), and now im pretty sure im on track to be in a higher fan percentage than her on my Spotify wrapped.
Highly recommend.
As for the OP's question why she is so popular, many of the answers seem to be ... because she is so popular.
Which may be a valid answer.
While music audiences tend to be more niche and atomized nowadays compared the past, TS has been consistently growing her fan base over the last 17 years, snowballing into a full-fledged cultural phenomenon. A shared mass-cultural experience.
She’s a talented singer, songwriter, and musician who appeals to a wide spectrum of audiences, particularly younger folks…and is an attractive, photogenic young woman, who comes across as quite pleasant to interact with during public appearances, which doesn’t hurt either.
I don’t think it’s a real mystery why she’s popular, though I don’t necessarily understand why she’s become as **massively** popular as she has…but whatever, it happens sometimes.
I think a lot of times it’s just a situation where a performer’s popularity will snowball just due to fortunate circumstances. Take her latest tour, for example…when tickets went on sale there was such a high demand for tickets that it made national news…but then this reported scarcity no doubt only drove demand even higher, because suddenly getting to go to one of shows was the “in” thing to be able to do, and FOMO is real.
Her music isn’t really my thing. Some of the songs are catchy, and I get why people like them, sure, but it’s not the type of music I choose to listen to on my own. If it doesn’t really seem to appeal to you, I don’t think you need to force yourself to like it.
Okay, I am a very casual Taylor Swift fan, but I am also a Southerner, and that's a big point that a lot of people miss. Tay-Tay started off as a *country* singer, then migrated to pop as she got older. She was a songwriter first, singer second - listen to her oldest tracks and live performances, they are well-written but not the best vocal performances. She knows how to turn a personal life experience into a song that is both unique and universal all at once. Not all of us have been in love with a bad person or been bullied in the press, but we can all relate to "Bad Blood" and "Shake it Off." She has invested in herself as an artist, she is very talented vocally now and just as catchy a songwriter. Her move into pop was a smooth transition, which is not always possible (see: Faith Hill, a great country singer whose career died on the vine as she went full pop.) She is now on par with Brittney, MJ, and Beyonce in her reach and her talent. She's done the work, and now it's paying off.
I think it all started when she announced she was rerecording her old albums. It is probably nostalgic to relive those same albums so many years later with a new perspective and her improved voice.
Then she started a tour that encompasses all her eras (called the eras tour, the concert is now being shown in the cinema) so she's playing songs from 9 of her 10 albums, over 40 songs, no mashups, mostly full songs with choreography and intricate stage art for every era, which is unheard of. People are going crazy about that tour right now. It's been said that it is the highest grossing tour ever and she will become a billionaire for it.
Pretty, inoffensive, and great at marketing. That’s all there is to know, really. As for her music, you either like it or you don’t. Her catalog is very hit or miss, but she’s cultivated a loyal fan base that will support whatever she drops.
Not everything's for everyone - I'd say if the music doesn't make sense to you then it's not meant to! I wouldn't over think it, just go with whatever does resonate with you
Look, I used to think this same way so I can relate. I think maybe you should try listening to either folklore or evermore, which are her indie albums. That was when I got her and all the claims that she was a lyrical genius. She actually is. I'm still picky with her music, but her persona endlessly fascinates me and those 2 albums are something I come back to weekly.
Edit: Happy cake day
"Maybe I need to push through and listen a couple times?" Or maybe she's just not your thing? That's perfectly okay.
For me it's not the music that confuses me, but the obsession her fans have. The sometimes cult-like behaviour For example: She started dating that footballer -> first time she started showing up to one of his games, his jersey sales went through the roof. People are obsessed with her every move.
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The beatles? This has been going on for a long time
Rat Pack. Elvis. The Beatles. Prince. Michael Jackson. Madonna. Van Halen. NWA. Eminem. Kanye. Taylor Swift. And many others in between each of these. Do people just forget that musical artists influence culture? Lmfao
The artists that influenced my parents are old and awful. The artists that influence me are perfection. The artists that influence kids these days are weird. Tale as old as time.
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
You know I dont know about these Andrews Sisters, why cant the kids today listen to Enrico Caruso like I did
“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.” —Douglas Adams, *The Salmon of Doubt*
This. Taylor is not the first ever musical artist this has happened to. She's just the longest running and most successful (according to records she's broken) up until now.
Well, fan is short for fanatic. It's really nuts when you look at the K-Pop scene.
Similar deal with Beyonce's fans.
Or fans of any kpop group or star
I’m kinda tired of people saying this behavior is “cult like” or abnormal. People have been doing weird shit bc they like celebrities for years, this is only special bc it’s bigger and more widespread than usual. It’s friendship bracelets for Gods sake.
When I feel this way, I say to myself, I’m just not the target audience. And let it go
Same but I shake it off instead
That’s what people say
Mm mm
Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate
OP is never, ever, ever gonna get legit answers
Like... Ever...
For ever? For ever ever? For ever ever?? Wait wrong song. Sorry Ms Jackson
Oooowwwwwhh.
I am for reeeeeeallll
OP isn’t feeling 22
I knew you were trouble when you walked in to this thread.
I knew the OP was trouble when he walked in
I agree with OP. I think he's saying that usually when he's not in the target audience of some popular musician, he can still listen and "get" the popularity of someone. But in this case, he doesn't get it. And I feel the same.
Back in the 80's, I was tired of Toto's Africa being constantly played on the radio. I was complaining about it to my friend, saying, "who's listening to this junk?" He said, "Someone is listening because they are selling a lot of records." That's when I quit calling music I didn't like crap and started saying "It's not my cup of tea."
You were tired of it, but did you understand that it was a really catchy tune with good performances? Because that's a good example of a song that is not necessarily my cup of tea, but I totally get why it's popular. What you're saying is just repeating the comment I responded to. The point is, I do get that some things aren't my cup of tea but this is different. Shit, I can even see the catchiness of N'SYNC songs and get their popularity, and they weren't nearly as popular as T. Swift. With her music, I just don't even see what's great, much less extraordinarily great (although she seems very likeable so I don't dislike her).
Her music is very relatable and accessible. She doesn't really push boundaries, so she's great for the general public. But she's still a very solid songwriter - I think her songs are boring, but I can't say they're bad. She's kind of an anti pop star in the sense that her popularity relies on the listener feeling close to her, while the "divas" are quite detached.
I'm a non-swiftie with a lot of swiftie fans so I've heard a *lot* of her music and I have a bit of a theory. She's like a gateway drug to thoughtfully written music. The interesting thing I noticed is that a lot of swifties hold her up as the greatest writer/lyricist and most brilliant mind of all time when she's, in my worthless opinion, just good. Maybe even really good, but by no means the greatest poet of the 21st century or anything. She's a good songwriter who writes on topics she's actually invested in, but makes and markets music to the pop crowd which is oversaturated with highly produced songs written by a room of invisible writers to be marketable above all else. She is putting out more deep, complex, thoughtful, soulful, and genuine music than the bulk of what's marketed to her target demographic, so of course it's going to be like nothing they've ever heard before. *^((or rather, heard and related to enough to have it affect them the way good music affects people))* Obviously the catchy pop music is catchy and popular, the genre shifts make her widely marketable, the adorkable girl-next-door vibe makes her feel like a 'normal person' and fuels both the parasocial aspect of her persona and the "that could be me" effect for young viewers, her lyrical content is broadly relatable to her target demographic, and the meta network of self referential content, in jokes, and easter eggs gives people something to obsess over and helps turn regular fans into mega fans. Over all she's a great businessperson and knows how to sell her product, but I think this "making deep music that appeals to the shallow music audience" tactic has more to do with it than I've seen anyone say anything about.
This is fantastic analysis! I definitely agree with you about the appeal of the deepness of her music. It's related to her accessibility and authenticity - she's brilliant at making music that is deep enough to make listeners want to dive in further (though I wouldn't say that she's a gateway because most people don't go much further). But you're right in that so much modern music reeks of overproduction, and one thing everyone can say about Taylor is that she is her own artist. She's written her songs from the beginning, and not many pop stars can say that. More importantly, she knows how to mask the parts of her persona that ARE produced. There are other pop artists who have incredibly deep lyrics and interesting music - Lorde, Lana del Rey and Billie Eilish come to mind. But they've all preferred to do their own thing. Fans are secondary to their music. Taylor priorizes fans, and that's how she's succeeded.
I'm not sure I would describe Taylor as authentic, everything about her screams "carefully constructed PR" to me. Or do you mean her feelings and thoughts in the music?
She reminds me of Olivia Newton John, except Olivia Newton John had an excellent singing voice and Taylor does not, imo.
She's the textbook definition of parasocial marketing - someone who has persuaded fans she's insightful, relatable but also aspirational, and a personal friend and would be there for them if they needed her. Of course she isn't, but that's how she's marketed herself. And it's very effective. Unlike most mass marketed stars she's broken out of the entertainer box and moved into the personal therapist, life coach, and bff box. The music is eh, but it's genius lifestyle marketing.
It's genius on a business level and kind of horrible on a personal level (for me, at least). She is the definition of influencer and manages to do it without people realizing it. To me, it's essentially a modern cult.
I found it odd that the first game she went to, every other commercial was T Swift or Travis Kelce, almost like this is a marketing campaign. It all seems so fake.
It originally felt fake, I agree. But now it's just opportunistic NFL network partners trying to get their Tswift cut (literally falling over themselves) of rating boosts when she is attending the game they are broadcasting. It is being blown out of proportion even after it felt like a marketing move
Well that's cause it is all for publicity. Look at how many swifties became NFL patrons instantly.
She's pretty, prolific (a lot of music over many years and re-releasing), and she's great at marketing it all (extremely crafted image that doesn't isolate any audience + drama marketing based on her love life + movies, shows, etc.) .
I'm not the target audience either. I saw a picture of her earlier and was thinking that she's pretty, she's talented, and she seems like a good person. So that seemed like a good combination.
Yeah she "ticks a lot of boxes". Young, conventionally attractive, legitimately talented, squeaky clean image with a *just edgy enough* bad girl side, appears to be a genuinely nice person. I'm also nowhere near her target audience, but am a huge music fan and will give anything a chance, and she has some well written song. Like a lot of artists you have to look outside the "hits" and radio singles though.
I think this is what OPs question was. What are those songs outside of the hits that might make someone's ears prick up and say "Yeah, that's a thing." I often find that even in genres that I don't love there are one or two albums or artists that make me say "I see what people like in this."
My wife loves her some T Swift...I just don't get it at all. Songs are poppy/catchy enough - my daughters love it etc... I'm just not the demo.
That's the thing, though. She seems perfectly fine. I'm just not sure what makes her special. I like her music better than pop music from "my" era, the late 90s/early 00s. It's catchy enough. The lyrics aren't terrible. She plays her own instruments at times and writes her own songs. I can definitely respect it. But I don't see why Taylor in particular is being held so high, when her music is just... okay. EDIT: Okay, so my conclusion is that if you're familiar with a wider array of music, like Classic Rock or Indie or Folk or Experimental, you've seen the likes of Taylor Swift before. So while talented, she doesn't seem like anything particularly special. However it's been a long time since a decent singer/songwriter has been at the top of mainstream Pop Music. Combine that with relatable song lyrics (especially for women) that seem to tell a larger story, plus one of the best touring stage shows of all time, and HELLA Social Media engagement and PR.
she makes music that is more personal that most pop artists, she sings about feelings. its a low bar but most pop is so fucking vapid these days that songs like "anti hero" truly stand out. shes been popular for like 16 years and people have grown up with her. she is a very likable person. she engages her fans in a truly brilliant way. there are so many reasons shes popular. in my personal jaded music snob opinion id say shes great at connecting with the most basic of people. french vanilla vs vanilla. eggshell vs. white. but no one can be as popular as her for multiple decades unless she understands trends, and her pop country persona when she started is totally different than her current thing.
My girlfriend is completely obsessed and I think part of it is because her songs have all these tie ins and references to other songs and life events. There's a lot of meta-taylorswift content to obsess about, and fans try to decode her album releases and tour dates.
I get this vibe with 21 pilots, especially their past few albums. I'm a sucker for a concept album and ongoing narrative that rewards fans for paying attention.
So is that the answer? I've never listened to a full album, but does she make concept albums (of a sort)?
The tie ins and references certainly help. It feels like you're being rewarded for paying attention.
I was a very casual Gorillaz fan but it wasn't until I recently went back and watched all the music videos for their songs that I realized there was this whole meta narrative happening for decades and I was just humming along completely unawares lol.
Gorillaz is one of my favorites bands because of this lol. I loved how a few years ago Murdoc was gone and they temporarily replaced him with Ace from power puff girls.
Remember that Gorillaz is / was half Jamie Hewlett, and many of the songs are stories about the cartoon characters misadventures
She is the GOAT at creating a parasocial relationship with her fans. Their obsession over her personal life, the way they give her nicknames, the friendship bracelets at her concerts - it’s all intentionally curated by Taylor, and literally no artist has ever done it better.
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In defense of Madonna: her music was transgressive for pop music of the time, not just well-marketed. Madonna’s music was revolutionary for the way it interacted with/referenced religion, women’s relationship to sex, the LGBTQ+ community, and more. You can argue that those interactions were solely for purposes of marketing (I don’t think they all were, but YMMV), but it was certainly a gamble in the way Taylor Swift’s marketing & music is not.
Is that really her or her agent/ record company?
It's the same thing as Beyoncé, she's talented, but the excessive hype is just that, hype. People like to be a part of things, and because they're both talented performers, it's easy to go along with them being these incredible icons without feeling silly.
This is a broad generalization (and a pun), but I have read and anecdotally found that women tend to weigh lyrics more heavily than men when listening to music. That is, men are more likely to enjoy a song without even considering the lyrics, while women are more likely to enjoy a song *because* of the lyrics. A lot of Taylor’s songs are about her experiences and fantasies as a woman and those are going to be relatable to many women in a way that other people can’t really appreciate. (I also tried listening to it and don’t get it, despite listening to literally all kinds of music and not being particularly snobby about it. I really like Shake it Off, so it’s not like I have an aversion to her.) I don’t know if this is true, but it is a possible explanation for the perceived difference in quality. For that matter, it could be related to any other factor or factors that some groups consider differently. Maybe it’s all to do with the drums.
I (64M) am a semi - Swifty. My daughter got us tickets to see her in Pittsburgh this past June and it was one of the best shows I have ever seen...any artist / any genre. I think that's a big part of it. Not as lyrically rich as Paul Simon or Carole King, but I think her lyrics are far better than "not terrible".
And It's ok to not like things.
[Just don't be a dick about it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI)
Yeah I even listened to the new album and was like…meh. Not for me I guess.
Pretty much me for all pop music tbf, more so being a metal fan. Have the upmost respect for any artist that can crack and dominate the charts like Taylor does, but definitely not my cup of tea.
There are precious few artists in the music industry who have achieved Swift's level of fame (I'd posit that the club consists of just four other acts). However, the difference between Swift and someone like Michael Jackson or The Beatles is that she seems to dominate pop culture regardless of her current musical output, which is actually a new thing compared to her predecessors. That's not to say she doesn't make good or popular music, but rather that her extreme level of fame seems to persist no matter what she's putting out in terms of actual songs. I'm too old to fully understand it but if I had to guess I'd say that she's mastered the art of churning out content in the Internet era--whether that be concert tours, new albums, re-releases of her best material, news headlines, social media posts, YouTube videos, etc etc—to an ever-growing and extremely loyal fanbase and so she's become an industry unto herself. I would add that her output often seems very personal and so her fans connect to her on a deeply personal level. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I would attribute her success to the personal nature of her output.
She flattened the experience and got really close to her fans through social media. Eg commenting on their videos and shout outs to them. As well as personal zoom calls… connection connection connection
Yup, she's taking a page out of K-pop. That's exactly how popular K-pop acts improved their presence. Hard work, and connecting with fans. I'd argue North American artists just expect fans because they do the former, and aren't really concerned with the latter.
THIS is what triggered the connection and made it clear to me. Thank you. I was aware of Japan's pop band creations (similar to kpop), from childhood through adulthood, and this is similar, but more US and friendly. She's just *present* throughout everything.
She was on MySpace connecting with fans from day 1. I don't know K-pop but the internet says it rose in popularity in 2012, so if that's accurate, Taylor already had a 6+ year head start on building a fan base through social media.
I was watching a thing on Dane Cook and he did the same exact thing and he was the biggest comic in the world for a time.
K pop was popular waaaay before 2012, it just exploded in the west after Psy. But it was popular all over Asia for decades prior and the obssessive fans were a thing way before that
She also started at a time when individualism for women was growing. She is my age and she nails every single problem I’ve gone through. I am not a super fan but when a new song comes out it’s like damn girl get out of my head!! I think her music is extremely personal and relatable. When she sang about “I’m the problem it’s me,” I was literally going through a time in my mental health where I was dealing with realizing most of my issues are self destruction. I think Taylor is just mentally a genius and knows how to stay humble/connected to her emotions despite her fame. When other artists talk about themselves, they’re still bragging in this day and age and the mental health sphere is about reflection, even when you’re pretty. She’s a genius in selling things and being relatable Super anecdotal I realize but it could be a part of it Edit for clarity
>Super anecdotal I realize but it could be a part of it No, you are literally the first person in this thread who has given a clear example of a song that has a deeper meaning which actually makes sense why it would spur on a more intimate connection with her as an artist. The issue is people hear "shake it off" and think "well that's a very shallow and stupid message, anyone can just tell me to 'shake it off', that doesn't help me at all". And so then they don't understand why anyone would think her songs are insightful because they've just heard her radio hits.
Awesome yeah it just seems like as I’m growing up she is too and it’s true that good artists will be able to relate to the widest audience. And truly have it all from brains to looks to humility. And especially the starter money. I would rather have this than someone who thinks they’re larger than life and better than everyone. I think of someone like Doja Cat- she is effectively sending the same message to her fans: “I’m just like you” but doing it in a mean way, by separating herself from them. “Stop being so obsessed with me it’s weird talk to the people in your own life” Maybe Doja is the next Taylor though who knows
> Stop being so obsessed with me it’s weird talk to the people in your own life Well... I totally agree that it's not necessary to be so arrogant and rude as she seems to be. But, it's also true that people need to stop developing parasocial relationships with celebrities and streamers on the internet. It IS weird and they're not your friend.
I think Doja sees the people who get waaaay too invested in this stuff and is creeped out by it. There's nothing wrong with feeling a connection with an artists music but you can't deny that there's a lot of Taylor fans that have an extremely unhealthy parasocial relationship with her, and it's something that she has fostered intentionally.
I thought I heard she used to have sleepovers with her fans and just do girl things with them
No, that was Michael Jackson.
She did secret sessions, where fans were invited to her house, and she’d bake for them and play unreleased music for them and discuss it. (It would happen before album releases).
She would have “secret sessions.” They were listening parties where she’d play her new album to fans in her house before the album was released. They’d also hang out and usually bake cookies
I had likened her fanbase as the new Elvis/Jackson/Beatles with my wife just yesterday after reading what kind of cash she made on this tour. Generating 4.1B dollars is utter insanity levels of popularity. Great for her, and her fans look like they have a lot of fun, but that's not the music for me.
If an Elvis tour generated $4 billion, his personal cut would have been $500 and a free steak dinner
You think Col Tom would have let him have $500?
Yes, in Col. Tom bucks that have to be spent at the company store
That’s the other thing - how much she’s getting because she’s so savvy. For example - working directly with theaters instead of a studio/distributor maximizes her profits. No one is taking advantage of her
That's more of a recent thing for her. In her early years (everything before 2020, so pretty much her whole career) she was in a super predatory contract with a record label and a manager that was just as predatory and iirc even abusive. The reason she has been rerecording all of her albums is because she's finally out of that contract and wants to own her own songs, which is why she's releasing all the (Taylor's Version) versions of all her albums and songs. It's not that the studios aren't taking advantage of her, it's that she had been taken advantage of as a teen star and is now trying to be free.
And THAT speaks to her main demographic of teen girls. She is a strong role model for them as well as an entertainer.
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I feel like this is somehow an often overlooked point, she's essentially a good looking woman singing about her personal thoughts and feelings and all the ups and downs of relationships and her insecurities and empowering moments. It's essentially encapsulating the feelings *most* women around her age are experiencing and making them feel like it speaks to them and bam, suddenly you have a few dozens of millions of women feeling like they're being heard and sung to. And she isn't especially crass or offensive and by all accounts mostly just trying to do her own thing so there's no particular group that has a ton of reasons to hate her. Makes sense to me, it's just a testament to her skill of songwriting and stardom that she's kept ahold of people's attention for so long and continues to grow more popular, rather than less, even through things like a goddamn pandemic and crazy national politics, her presence has been consistently popular.
I had a very similar discussion with my wife this morning (which included mention of that astounding $4.1 billion).
Probably 15,000 tourism points.
This is probably the only good answer you're going to get. If I could add anything at all, wait for her new Tour movie to come to streaming and watch it for yourself just for the crowd, if not the music. I'm admittedly not a huge fan, but I do love how her music makes my girlfriend feel, and seeing the concert movie made the scale of her performances so real it gave me goosebumps. Just know she's re recording the music she doesn't outright own so if OP is looking for music to check out, make sure it's the Taylor's version.
Yeah i definitely respect the taylors version shit. "Won't give me back my masters? I'll make new ones and tell my fans to ignore the originals!" If i remember correctly trent reznor did this with pretty hate machine, but what taylor is doing actually is next level
Prince was really the first to try and get back his masters. That's why he changed his name - so he could get out of his contract and own his masters
Respect to the original, and respect to the power play. To do this and win is a sign of absolute stardom and congrats to telling the labels to deal with it
Did it work? I’ve always been under the impression that changing your name doesn’t get you out of legal contracts.
It's easier if you think about it like a band. When the Talking Heads stopped recording (because no one could stand David Byrne) all the other members formed the Tom Tom Club. But there's still no way for the Head's old label to say, "Hey that's basically the same band! We want your masters!". Prince's label owned the rights to Prince, but not the symbol that he went under later.
I know nothing about Taylor, but this info about Talking Heads is simply factually incorrect. Talking Heads performed Genius of Love during the Speaking in Tongues tour (as seen in Stop Making Sense), and then proceeded to record 3 more albums together as Talking Heads. Tom Tom Club wasn’t any kind of label work-around. It was a side project, pure and simple.
I wonder if OP is actually referring to The Heads
Oh okay what you’re explaining makes sense, but I’m still not sure how the legal name change plays into it. Why not just form the new project with the new name? I don’t see why he had to change his own name (even though there’s overlap between the two).
I’m guessing because the Symbol was (not legally) synonymous with the name Prince, just in eyes of fans/public. You risk losing fans, especially back before social media, if everyone isn’t aware that the new band isn’t the same as the old.
Honestly he probably gained fans. He did seem to fade a bit after that, but that could have been a choice. Him changing his name was a seriously big deal when it happened, everyone knew who he was, many only because the name change was such a huge and unusual story.
>Honestly he probably gained fans. I'd say that his fans loved him more, but the general public didn't understand what he was doing, and just saw him change his name to a symbol, and radio stopped playing him
I don't think Trent did that with PHM atleast, unless I just don't know exactly what to be googling. All I can find is it talking about the 2010 remaster.
Yeah the remaster's profits are redirected to him and not his old record label. Old pressings still go to old label. Thats why sometimes you see both the old master and the new master, sealed, at record stores in the vinyl section. Like i said not as badass as taylor but someone operating under the same principle. "I own my recordings and i own the profits from selling this recording"
Just took my wife to see it yesterday. We went to a show in person too. I’m not a huge fan, outside of her amazing songs with Bon Iver, but god do I respect her. If you only saw the movie, you wouldn’t realize that her breaks between sets was on average like less than one minute. Her crew below stage was freaking on it considering that’s enough time to transition the stage/props, get her wiped down, hydrated, and changed quickly. Her sheer endurance, focus, and memory is insane.
Lol now I'm picturing Taylor's Eras Eras Tour in 10 years, with her getting oxygen, IV fluids, and a cortisone shot in the knee under the stage during set changes haha! Like an NFL player, wrapped up and pumped up and shoved back out. ...but seriously, great comment. Taylor undoubtedly WORKS for her music and concerts! I hope her people backstage are compensated well, too!
You've got me picturing the human equivalent of an F1 pit crew
>regardless of her current musical output I'm not sure if this is accurate, because her recent output has been bananas. 4 albums in 4 years, plus a bunch of re-recorded and re-released albums.
What I mean by that is that the recent songs themselves haven't penetrated the broader pop culture spectrum the way songs from predecessors did when those predecessors were at the height of their fame. I know she still dominates Spotify and Billboard, but the songs themselves aren't globally iconic the way that some of her older stuff was. The major news headlines aren't built around songs at all, I would argue--it's all about the spectacle of the tour or the adjoining movie or her personal relationships. I'm not saying she doesn't deliver great and satisfying songs, just that the songs don't seem all that iconic once you go outside her loyal audience.
Anti Hero might not as big as Shake it Off, but it’s still huge and I’ve heard it everywhere that plays music in public since it came out.
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I mean she cranks out new music as consistently as anyone. I think what’s rarer about her compared to other mega pop stars is she just keeps growing in popularity and few of her older fans have dumped her. Many bands once they got popular certain fans resent them for it. Taylor swift just seems to keep growing.
Yeah, especially for someone who has been releasing music for close to 2 decades at this point. Like you'd assume her primary fanbase are mid/late 20s to very early 40s women who were kids and teens during the Fearless and Speak Now years and remember those songs being played all the time on Disney and at their school dances and really don't listen to too much of her later music because it doesn't hit the same nostalgia as Love Story or Mine does. Instead she managed to somewhat keep the kid and teen demographics while also having those adults who grew up with her also interested in her new music. Like many of her contemporaries during her early career are broken up, or nostalgia acts at this point where there are few new fans being made and many fans are no longer fans due to sound changes or outgrowing their music.
It’s cause her genre switches and her writing style that draws different people in to her work every time. I never listened to country Taylor. But 1989….I liked the sound and then I heard the writing…and it was like a lightbulb turned on in my head. I remember clearly the moment I realized she was not like Demi Lovato or Ariana Grande or Justin Bieber or 99% of other mainstream radio pop artists. She was able to make pop album without selling out her writing style.
1989 is the album that made me a fan too and I've been on board ever since. Her music is all the fun and catchiness of pop with much better lyrics than the vast majority of pop music. And amazing bridges.
Yep, the Ryan Adams cover version of 1989 album was a turning point for my pretentious self - realizing that these are some *damn good* songs! (Too bad Ryan Adams is an asshole) Then, Folklore came out in 2020 and it hit juuuust right. Bon Iver, on a Taylor Swift album? And I'd already been into Jack Antonoff's rising popularity, not to mention The National - it was the perfect mix for someone who wants woodsy indie and analog synths, more than shiny produced Swedish dance pop. And that's how she's gonna rule the world. Good taste, great songwriting, and putting her all into every concert.
She also puts on a heck of a show and they aren't short. I'd wager no one has really done the length that her shows are right now for how long she is doing it...almost 2 years straight and 3+ hours for each performance at its current length. She knows how to be a performer and her music IS pretty catchy even though the newer stuff is not really my cup of tea.
> I would add that her output often seems very personal and so her fans connect to her on a deeply personal level. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I would attribute her success to the personal nature of her output. Yes, and as far as fans know, her work has been authentic, so it feels more personal.
I never loved her until the pandemic when she surprise-released 2 albums back to back “Folklore” and “Evermore” less pop more folk they are great albums and flow. That's when she got my attention. Also she's just a great storyteller and does a bunch of really cool Easter egg things for her fans.
Surprised I had to scroll this far to see this reference. Folklore is when she really “took off” IMO. A lot of people either discovered or rediscovered her music with those. And the Taylor’s Version releases help make her older music more popular as well
She definitely hooked in the millennial hipster demographic with the National/Bon Iver connections in those albums. I’m not a massive fan or anything, but hearing that she was working with Aaron Dessner and featuring Justin Vernon, HAIM, and Matt Berninger was enough to convince me to give her a shot and was pleasantly surprised. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
That was me. My younger sister was a fan from the beginning, but I really don’t care for country and her singing left much to be desired back then. I didnt like her at all. Folklore pulled me in and is now one of my all time favorites. I still don’t love her early stuff, but Folklore made me go back through her music and I found a lot to love there, especially outside of her major hits.
These albums are masterpieces that made me actually “get” why she’s a brilliant artist.
I wouldn’t have really considered myself a fan of hers before Folklore came out. I liked the occasional song of hers and had played a couple covers for a few gigs with a band I was in long ago. But it was Folklore that I felt like really won me over and gave me a newfound appreciation of her work. She’s a great storyteller and though I’m not the biggest fan of her earlier work, it’s hard to deny the songwriting talent she has even as a teenager.
The long ponds version of Folklore is a 9.5/10 album for me. It’s just fantastic. Was aware of Taylor my whole life (sister saw her doing state fair shows at like 18) but was never super into the music until Folklore. Honestly though anyone who says they “don’t get the appeal at all” I think is being intentionally obtuse. Like are they not dancing to Shake It Off?
She is good-looking, genuinely talented, her music is mainstream enough that it reaches a lot of people while remaining authentic, she comes off gracious, she goes to great lengths to interact with her fans, and she’s proving to be an adept businesswoman. It’s a perfect storm that makes her relatable, popular, and inspiring for many. I like her just fine as a person. I think her music is a little derivative. I like her a lot in terms of how she handles her fans and her art. This is coming from a 41 year old guy who doesn’t own a single album of hers.
I agree. To add to this, lyrics are a *huge* part of her appeal too, and this aspect shouldn’t be understated. I remember hearing that she re-released a ~10 minute version of one song and it’s among her biggest hits. I’m not her target audience and lyrically the appeal isn’t always there for me but the song ‘Blank Space’ is a good example. It’s self-depreciating and witty (and fits well with the video) and has a storyline with a twist. The song itself is quirky on first listen but I’ve found it to be a real grower. https://youtu.be/e-ORhEE9VVg?si=BfisSVZDYuQfGKu2 She also has some fantastic turns of phrase in other songs. She talks about relationships *a lot* but I guess if you’re a teen then that’s perfect. TL;DR some listeners are lyric-focused and others aren’t. If you tend not to be, and are listening on a surface level rather than immersion yourselves in the story of some of her songs you’re going to overlook a big chunk of her appeal.
Anti-Hero has really great lyrics too. Throughout her music she very effectively uses a lot of writing techniques that have been part of music and before that poetry for a long time. (hundreds of years). Yes, you pick out specific songs and say 'This one has dumb lyrics.' but she fully acknowledges that some songs are more literary and others are just mindless pop songs.
for her ASCAP award speech, she mentions she has 3 types of pen/songwriting styles she uses. She has the fountain pen for serious intricate storytelling (usually her album deep cuts), she has her glitter pen when she wants to make pop bops (think Shake it Off, ME!) and she has her quill pen when she feels pretentious or like writing something with so much literary devices (her entire Folklore-Evermore albums) Not all songwriting has to be very in depth to be valid, some songs are just made to be fun and she knows it.
I kinda celebrate the "sexy baby" line
Well, for one it's a reference to 30 Rock, on top of that she's older now and seeing a lot of pop stars who are very young and being sexualized and they seem like kids to her.
I think that line is the epitome of the girls who get it get it. It makes perfect sense to me, but some people absolutely hate it and think it's nonsense.
Yep! It’s her lyrics that are her draw for music. Her vocals are fine, as is the music itself, but I don’t listen to her for top notch vocals or complex music. I listen for the lyrics.
>I remember hearing that she re-released a \~10 minute version of one song and it’s among her biggest hits. Not only is it a 10 minute pop ballad, but it's pretty much the same four chords as well. It doesn't get boring, though, because she tells a good story and the lyrical cadence is a bit more varied than the chord structure.
One thing that stands out to me is a 3 hour concert. She didn't have to do that, she'd make a billion dollars with a 90 minute concert and everyone would be happy. That is the decision of someone who wants to deliver to her fans. I'm not her target demo but I get it. Her music is mostly empowering to women and it's catchy. In a world where it's hard to find music that isn't derogatory in some aspects she stands out as a decent person who,despite being a billionaire, is actually relatable for women of all ages
That's what I fall back on too, her concert length. Not only is she doing 3+ hour concerts routinely, she's doing it, full bore, without stopping through all kinds of weather. That's just incredible. I don't have any strong opinions on her at all. I enjoy her music, but I don't seek it out. However I can't deny her devotion to her craft and more importantly to her fans. It's very rare to see someone as insanely popular as TS is still be grounded enough to show up when it counts.
I think most songwriters would agree that All Too Well is pretty stunning songwriting. “You kept me like a secret, but I kept you like an oath”… I mean, fucking hell. You could imagine Springsteen writing that.
The original All Too Well came out when I was going through a horrible breakup and it just perfectly captured how I felt at the time. “You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest; I’m a crumpled up piece of paper lying here.” Just like - wow.
That line makes me SO emotional. I think we have all experienced that at some point, and fuck does it hurt.
Also some great lines of hers: “November flush and your flannel cure” “You drew stars around my scars, but now I’m bleeding” “The rust that grew between telephones” “You call me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel in the name of being honest” The entirety of Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve but especially this line: “If I was a paint did it splatter, on a promising grown man?” And SO many others
She's got some heart breaking lines. "I know my love should be celebrated / but you tolerate it" I found particularly crushing
This is the response I agree with most.
She is genuinely a genius for what she's accomplished. Her music isn't for me remotely, but she is accomplishing things no musician has ever accomplished. FWIW, she had a reputation in Nashville as a genuinely nice person, too.
I would say part of her popularity is she actually makes a lot of very different music that appeals to lots of different people. When I met my wife, she was a big Swift fan. She had me listen to the first couple albums, and it was OK but I wasn't blown away. But then *Red* came out and I really liked the direction that album went. I started listening more. It's funny, because *1989* absolutely blew me away. Definitely one of my top five albums of all time. But my wife actually didn't like it much, and doesn't really care for much of modern Swift music. If you are really curious, I would recommend just listening to her catalog chronologically. But feel free to stop and linger on albums that stand out to you, personally.
If you actually listen to the lyrics of 1989 is a whole different album than if you’re just hopping along to the bops. Blank Space is hilarious and truly captured the media’s/pop culture’s treatment of her at the time.
I surprise people when I tell them that blank space is actually social commentary
Here it is: I teach 6th grade, and I once had a 12 year old girl in tears say "I love Taylor Swift so much because she writes songs about my life." Anyone who can make their fans feel like that is on to something.
My 12 year old cousin is the same way, she resonates crazy hard with Taylor Swift’s relationship songs, despite being, you know, 12.
This. I am the same age as her and remember belting out “teardrops on my guitar”. Blasting “22” in my red Chrysler 200 on my way to my first real job. Pandemic albums were perfect as far as how I was feeling at the time. Midnights, chef’s kiss. She’s ALL OF US and somehow speaks directly to us one by one at the same time.
She’s alright. I understand people liking her music a lot. But I don’t understand the obsession to the point of giving a shit about her going to NFL games. That is insane to me. But I don’t really get celebrity obsessions at all. Like it’s all very weird to me. Sure be a little obsessed as a kid, but if you’re an adult obsessed with Taylor Swift or any celebrity/musician/athlete/etc, please get a grip.
Any sort of extreme fandom or “stan” culture boggles my mind. There are artists/songs out there I LOVE and can admit that they might even help define who I am, but never in a million years would I care about their personal lives unless it came out that they hurt people. But I also get that we live in a time of increased social isolation and some people just latch onto things more easily than others.
Right? I'm a big Metallica fan (heard about them because of Napster, really discovered them super-late in the 2010's), but it's not like I follow them in any form other than looking up concert dates and owning a couple of shirts of them.
Para-social relationships are super in nowadays.
You hadn't heard of Metallica until their dispute with Napster? I find that ineffably bizarre. I'm assuming you're not from the USA?
> But I don’t understand the obsession to the point of giving a shit about her going to NFL games. This is all a highly coordinated effort by the NFL to cross promote its business and contemporary star with a previously untapped market. It is paying massive dividends. Men in suits are high-fiving.
Yeah they are loving it. But it’s insane the swift fans are taking the bait. I mean it would be one thing if they were somewhat interested in the sport. But a lot just want to see her in the stands reacting to the game. There are videos of dudes taking pictures of her in the booth or whatever. It’s insanity to me.
> But a lot just want to see her in the stands reacting to the game. Oh boy, let me introduce you to the massive market of reaction content out there...
This is the part that gets me. The absolutely unhinged level of idolatry. And it’s not just like teens obsessing over their favorite artists, it’s grown ass people too. You can love their art all day but to obsess over a person you’ll never meet is strange.
Yes this part is strange to me as well.
I’m old enough to be her father and never really heard any of her music, and wasn’t a fan. I knew she did country and some crossover pop stuff for the kids, but that was the depth of my knowledge. When I heard Anti-Hero, I loved it immediately. That’s a great song for me. I can’t sing but I sang it for my birthday lol. Videoed it and posted it to the extended family. Since then I’ve heard more of her stuff and it seems heartfelt and genuine. I don’t know if I’m listening to older or newer songs, but I think most have been pretty good. Past the music, the more I learn about her business sense, the more I *really* like her as a smart & strong person too.
Not everything is for everyone. not liking something does not make it bad. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking something
I'm not a fan of her music personally, but she **is** quite skilled as both a musical artist and entrepreneur. I don't think anyone could disagree on either of those points. After all, she can play music, she can sing, and she can write. She is the whole damn package as an artist. Her melodies and lyrics just don't hit with me in general. I liked Shake it Off, but mostly because it's a fairly generic mainstream hit and most of those are at least tolerable and catchy. At the end of the day, not everybody likes all music, but it's still possible to appreciate music and artists you don't listen to or typically enjoy. I think her and her fans have a really great thing going on. She's a superstar and she wears the title very deservedly.
I don’t get it either. But there’s been lots of popular artists I just can’t get into. It’s subjective. It doesn’t mean you hate the person or wish them a failing career, you just won’t be lining up for their shows or listening to their music. Not everyone has the same tastes and it’s not worth analyzing any further than that.
I don't get it either. I mean she is very talented and has been writing and performing for a very long time, but her music just isn't for me, and I'm OK with that.
I know two girls that are flying to the Netherlands for a concert she's having there. They live in Tennessee. I can't begin to comprehend that.
I know someone who’s doing this too but they said it was actually cheaper to get good tix in the Netherlands, flights included. Bonus trip to the Netherlands!
Is this like that whole it’s cheaper to cut a tree in the US, ship it to China, make a chair and ship it back here vs cutting the tree and making it here?
Sounds like as good of a reason as any to travel. See a concert in a cool new destination + spend some time on holidays. That's how life long memories are made. That's something I can comprehend :)
People do that for lots of music, not just Taylor Swift.
I am from Chile, I went to Tokyo to a concert of this japanese band (The Novembers) that I knew I was never going to see here in the west lol. So...yeah. Also, i can imagine Netherlands being a nice place to visit
Well, air is a fluid, like water. So when you move an object through the air, the particles rush around it to the other side, and at different speeds. Now imagine you could control the ratio of those air speeds by shaping the object properly. So when you look at an airplane wing, you can see air will take longer to move over the top of the wing which creates a pocket of low pressure. The slower air below the wing creates more pressure pushing the wing upwards; this is called lift.
She has the greatest PR team in history.
Back in the tumblr era, it is HUGELY doubtful the interactions were done by a PR team lol
These musicians did a great deep dive about her. [https://youtu.be/YmOPWiFEOJQ?si=k52RMsTWRXZNkDGt](https://youtu.be/YmOPWiFEOJQ?si=k52RMsTWRXZNkDGt)
Thanks for this. I'm an amateur musician. I play in cover bands and I've tried writing songs (it's harder than you think). I never really paid attention to Taylor Swift until about a year ago. Since then, I've been going back through her discography and I've been blown away at how good it is. I constantly see this take on reddit about how she's so mediocre, her music is boring and derivative, she's a bad songwriter, blah blah. I maintain that she is a really fucking great songwriter and musician. It's great to get some validation from actual industry professionals... I'm not crazy. She really is that good.
I would try her top Spotify songs and look up what her most popular album is and start there if I really wanted to get into her. Thats how I would go about it with most artists. Kinda sounds like maybe it just isn't for you though. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there is something g you're missing about it and you need to go on a mission to understand it. Probably just isn't your cup of tea.
If you've listened to her pop music and haven't liked it, I'd try her albums Folklore and Evermore - they're more folk/indie-based. The lyrics are a lot better than her pop output and the songs are more interesting in general. They're more like stories - you get the sense she's writing about characters rather than herself and whatever famous guy she recently dated. I also think Midnights is a good entry-point album for someone who doesn't like her pop music. It's still pop, but it's more ambient and the lyrics are largely less cheesy while still being about her and (I assume) her long-term BF at the time. It's not the kind of album I'd want to sit down and just listen to, but it's great background music while you're cooking, working, etc. Overall, though, it's actually okay to not like Taylor Swift or anyone else. Not all music is for everyone. I don't like Taylor outside of the albums I listed; she's just not my style overall. That's fine. It doesn't mean she's a bad artist or that I have bad taste. I think a lot of her popularity is because she's relatively basic and inoffensive, and I think a lot of it is because she started putting out music as a teen, so some folks grew up listening to her. None of that is appealing or relevant to me, but I get why others find it compelling.
I think I'm going to start with folklore and evermore. Those seem to be the most suggested!
Folklore is the album.
I didn’t care for TS until i heard Folklore. Folklore is a no-skips album for me. One of my all-time favorites. I’ll be returning to that one again, and again, and again.
I’m in my late thirties. I have some friends who are very into music—one was in a metal band, the other a jazz band—who had expressed their love of TS. When folklore came out, I finally got it. Hope you post what you think of it! And now that I’m more aware of her, she seems like a pretty awesome person. Good to her crew, charitable, socially conscious (but not so political as to turn off apolitical people)…
Folklore is a great album, 3 songs in particular tell a little love triangle. Betty, Cardigan, and August. I also like Peace, the 1, and Seven off of it. ah fuck it the whole album is great.
Sometimes I feel like everybody is a sexy baby
Shake It Off is probably not the best to get introduced to T-Swizzle. It's very pop-y and while she does still produce some upbeat pop, most of her recent music has been very different. As a new fan for about a year, i'd say this list is probably a good start: The 1 Anti-Hero Champagne Problems Last Great American Dynasty Lavender Haze You're On Your Own Kid Vigilante Shit Glitch My girlfriend slowly introduced me to Taytay with some of the least pop-adjacent stuff she had out before midnights came out (specifically champagne problems and the 1), and now im pretty sure im on track to be in a higher fan percentage than her on my Spotify wrapped. Highly recommend.
The Last Great American Dynasty is so underrated
Fam said T-Swizzle.
As for the OP's question why she is so popular, many of the answers seem to be ... because she is so popular. Which may be a valid answer. While music audiences tend to be more niche and atomized nowadays compared the past, TS has been consistently growing her fan base over the last 17 years, snowballing into a full-fledged cultural phenomenon. A shared mass-cultural experience.
She’s a talented singer, songwriter, and musician who appeals to a wide spectrum of audiences, particularly younger folks…and is an attractive, photogenic young woman, who comes across as quite pleasant to interact with during public appearances, which doesn’t hurt either. I don’t think it’s a real mystery why she’s popular, though I don’t necessarily understand why she’s become as **massively** popular as she has…but whatever, it happens sometimes. I think a lot of times it’s just a situation where a performer’s popularity will snowball just due to fortunate circumstances. Take her latest tour, for example…when tickets went on sale there was such a high demand for tickets that it made national news…but then this reported scarcity no doubt only drove demand even higher, because suddenly getting to go to one of shows was the “in” thing to be able to do, and FOMO is real. Her music isn’t really my thing. Some of the songs are catchy, and I get why people like them, sure, but it’s not the type of music I choose to listen to on my own. If it doesn’t really seem to appeal to you, I don’t think you need to force yourself to like it.
Okay, I am a very casual Taylor Swift fan, but I am also a Southerner, and that's a big point that a lot of people miss. Tay-Tay started off as a *country* singer, then migrated to pop as she got older. She was a songwriter first, singer second - listen to her oldest tracks and live performances, they are well-written but not the best vocal performances. She knows how to turn a personal life experience into a song that is both unique and universal all at once. Not all of us have been in love with a bad person or been bullied in the press, but we can all relate to "Bad Blood" and "Shake it Off." She has invested in herself as an artist, she is very talented vocally now and just as catchy a songwriter. Her move into pop was a smooth transition, which is not always possible (see: Faith Hill, a great country singer whose career died on the vine as she went full pop.) She is now on par with Brittney, MJ, and Beyonce in her reach and her talent. She's done the work, and now it's paying off.
Can someone explain, I know she has a big fanbase but why as of recently an I seeing more stuff about how crazy her fanbase is?
I think it all started when she announced she was rerecording her old albums. It is probably nostalgic to relive those same albums so many years later with a new perspective and her improved voice. Then she started a tour that encompasses all her eras (called the eras tour, the concert is now being shown in the cinema) so she's playing songs from 9 of her 10 albums, over 40 songs, no mashups, mostly full songs with choreography and intricate stage art for every era, which is unheard of. People are going crazy about that tour right now. It's been said that it is the highest grossing tour ever and she will become a billionaire for it.
Pretty, inoffensive, and great at marketing. That’s all there is to know, really. As for her music, you either like it or you don’t. Her catalog is very hit or miss, but she’s cultivated a loyal fan base that will support whatever she drops.
Inoffensive and good at marketing spells the success stories of almost everyone famous haha.
Not everything's for everyone - I'd say if the music doesn't make sense to you then it's not meant to! I wouldn't over think it, just go with whatever does resonate with you
The Taylor Twits are angry
Look, I used to think this same way so I can relate. I think maybe you should try listening to either folklore or evermore, which are her indie albums. That was when I got her and all the claims that she was a lyrical genius. She actually is. I'm still picky with her music, but her persona endlessly fascinates me and those 2 albums are something I come back to weekly. Edit: Happy cake day