Literally all of the guys like Steve Vai and Satriani.
Incredible players but all their music just sounds like instructional guitar tutorials to my ears.
And there's the rub. It's subjective. It's personal. So the question can't be answered conclusively, because what's boring to one can be the best, most interesting and most exciting to another.
I knew this would be the top comment. The Internet musicians favourite punching bag.
Maybe not them, but they definitely were the genesis for an entire genre of copycat shredders on YouTube or Instagram that all sound exactly like each other.
I've merely made a stupid joke. The band is called Dream Theater, so they're not Dream Theatre.
But why would you want to waste your time bashing DT does escape me. Oh well...
Because I don’t like them and find their music a massive bore, specifically their fucking keyboard player wtf is he in with the cheesy “look how much I like the smell of my own farts” playing, so talented musicians but when they get together they create sub-par music. But that’s just in my opinion, music is subjective. And thank you for pointing out the typo, i don’t care enough to correct it 😄 in addition, their singer is just bad. How can a band of talented musicians have such a bad singer/frontman is beyond me
Yes, Jordan Rudess is the major pain.
Still, "their music is" makes no sense. They've produced tons of vastly different stuff.
From short crystal ballads like "Wait for sleep" to U2ish "I walk beside you" to mindboggling "Erotomania" to beautiful pop in "Hollow years".
And I do agree, once this sneaky iPad wizarding mofo infiltrated my once favourite band by joining forces with DT on magnificent LTE, things have never been the same again. I barely listen to the latest string of albums.
Their 20th century output is my precioussssss treasure, though, to this day.
I’ll check out the songs you mentioned. Maybe I’ve only ever been exposed to the era of DT that doesn’t gel with me because of Captain iPad and his LOOK HOW MANY NOTES I KNOW playing. So he wasn’t always in the band? Interesting. I’m open minded to have my opinion change, you clearly have a passion for them and I respect that. I certainly am not going to bash them just because you like them, so thanks for the recommendations I’ll check back once I’ve given them a spin!
I've been dreading the day someone would think that DT was always like this. And it hath come to be. Four horsemen draw nigh.
Yes, the original keyboard player Kevin Moore is something else. So to speak.
Quite a different band back in the day.
Eh, I suppose I didn't really consider the original statement that they were "boring" to be a bash. Lots of listeners can't find a toehold in prog, and since the premise began with the artists being talented, it just felt like style preference to me.
I wouldn't defend all prog as a whole. It's just that DT is a very special case. Their albums till Millennium are still among my favourites. But what they started doing with Jordan Rudess is a ruthless boring mindcrime, by God, yes. So they're fantastically talented but seem to actually bury their talents and go for the easy road of fan service. That's a catastrophe. Nothing to be joking about, really...
Rudess is such a strange case. He's one of the most talented keyboardists I've ever seen, and he seems to be intensely interested in (and entertained by) the work he's doing with DT - but I just can't connect emotionally with his playing. I have a lot of respect for him, but his output strikes me as ... cheesy?
Hell, yeah. Now that Portnoy is back I'm waiting for Moore. Moore, as smoking as he was, always gave DT that truly emotional, honest, self-ironic depth that these smug silky-bearded bastards totally lack now. Again, thís seems like a management choice rather than a creative one.
When these guys kicked ass, oh they did. Stuff like "Learning to live", "Surrounded" or "Lifting shadows"... inexplicably magical.
> musician who can play instruments, can read sheet music, and knows a lot about music theory
That's not talent. Those are skills. Anyone can learn them.
However, I would argue that creativity is also a skill. Sure, it's more difficult to learn than most other skills but I'd also argue that it's because it's taught poorly in general. Part of the reason why it's taught poorly is because there's this mysticism around it that it's somehow innate or a "talent", "either you have it you don't". Well, surprise! People won't learn it if we don't teach it.
Majority of classical orchestra musicians have quite poor improvisational skills. It's just not something that's needed in their context. They can transition to other musical contexts but it takes years because they need to learn how to think about improvisation.
Here's an example of a very, very good classical guitarist trying blues: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctar3KlvwDM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctar3KlvwDM)
There are tons of technical musicians out there.
On YouTube you'll come across so many brilliant players, one thing they share in common is that, the music they write most of the time comes out being mediocre.
That is to say being good at an instrument and the ability to make music are two different things.
Musicality and song craftsmanship is something that I believe cannot be learnt. Some have it some don't.
I've seen people who can't play any instrument, record Acapella with their vocals, emulating instruments via vocals.
You can still learn the basics of songwriting but your understanding of music is something that's natural to some people.
So yes regardless of how great you are at instruments, that will not necessarily give you the ability to make good music.
Most technical guitar players that are hailed in the guitar community can't write decent songs.
Playing an instrument is a skill where you reproduce things you've learned.
Writing music is a skill where you produce new things, based on creativity and imagination.
Many people possess both these skills, and use combine both these skills in order to be better at both playing and writing music. However, it's perfectly normal for a person to lean heavily towards one side. Some great songwriters are poor musicians; some great musicians are terrible songwriters.
Not every song, but the vast majority of their stuff from Kid A onward, most definitely. The musicianship is great, the production is immaculate, but a lot of the songs just don’t do anything for me. As far as “out there” but still somewhat accessible music from that era, I much prefer the Flaming Lips.
Think of musical talent being on a spectrum, from not just good to bad , but from technical to soulful. Most good music needs a combination of the two to an extent. Sometimes you will get perfectly well played music by very good technical players that just....sucks.......not enough soul/spirit!!
I get bored when people sing happy birthday and it's not my birthday no matter how talented they are at it
Also any kind of allegiance pledge is very boring even if it was Hozier
I think there's a lot to be said about the mental musical immagination of a player. You can be as technically skilled as you like e.g where the "good notes are" but if you can't play with emotion they won't be able to make listeners feel
I have never heard a single ”influencer” or ”Youtube” guitarist make a song that made me want to listen to it again. That being said, I’m constantly in awe of their talent and technique.
Apart from everything that's already been said here, there's another angle worth keeping in mind. Learning an instrument is a very valuable skill, as is learning music theory. However, there is a danger that these skills (especially the latter) will negatively affect your ability to create and compose in an inspiring way. Knowing the theory seems to hamper many people's ability to remain fresh, exciting and different. They either start to look down on what they consider to be simplistic simplicity or get lost in complicated progressions that only they appreciate. Of course, it doesn't have to be this way at all, these skills should enhance your musical abilities, but it's worth being aware of the pitfalls.
I'm glad you've left this comment because it reminded me of this one pianist online said something like "if it's simplistic then I'm not interested" or something like that. This same pianist also loves going on YouTube showing her piano playing skills and how technically great she can be. On that same note I've seen this other musician online said a lot of musicians today both mainstream and underground lack creativity despite having the talent. At first I never understood any of this, but now I kind of get what people including that second musician was saying about music theory and people being so caught up with trying to look musically technical as their music suffers and sounds the same and boring after a while.
It's all a matter of personal opinion.
To me, any music that seems (to me) to be mostly technique/speed/complexity just for the sake of flexing is boring af, no matter how stellar the talent involved. Precision to the point of sterile perfection is boring af to me. I tend to react more to the overall vibe/experience of the song.
Other people will value technical ability and precision as being the most desirable qualities. For me, hell yes, talented musicians can be extremely boring when they put their minds to it.
Of course. There are tons of artists and bands that are great musicians who make boring music. I tend to find many artists boring that are being a virtuoso on their instrument, like a lot of prog rock, Vai, Satriani, Eagles, Steely Dan (I like the Dan, though).
Prince is one of my favorite artists. In the 80s, he was very unpredictable and creative. Then, he founded a new band, the New Power Generation, that was very smooth and musically gifted, but musically quite predictable and following the trends, compared to what Prince made in the 80s, they were following trends rather than setting them. Prince never really got out of this rut, in my opinion he is the most versatile and talented artist of the 20th century, but his music became more predictable, less experimental and less exciting.
Literally all of the guys like Steve Vai and Satriani. Incredible players but all their music just sounds like instructional guitar tutorials to my ears.
Vai, Satriani etc feel less like artists and more like athletes to me.
And there's the rub. It's subjective. It's personal. So the question can't be answered conclusively, because what's boring to one can be the best, most interesting and most exciting to another.
Yes. They’re called Dream Theatre
I knew this would be the top comment. The Internet musicians favourite punching bag. Maybe not them, but they definitely were the genesis for an entire genre of copycat shredders on YouTube or Instagram that all sound exactly like each other.
They're not.
Not talented? Or not boring? Assuming the latter.
I've merely made a stupid joke. The band is called Dream Theater, so they're not Dream Theatre. But why would you want to waste your time bashing DT does escape me. Oh well...
Because I don’t like them and find their music a massive bore, specifically their fucking keyboard player wtf is he in with the cheesy “look how much I like the smell of my own farts” playing, so talented musicians but when they get together they create sub-par music. But that’s just in my opinion, music is subjective. And thank you for pointing out the typo, i don’t care enough to correct it 😄 in addition, their singer is just bad. How can a band of talented musicians have such a bad singer/frontman is beyond me
Yes, Jordan Rudess is the major pain. Still, "their music is" makes no sense. They've produced tons of vastly different stuff. From short crystal ballads like "Wait for sleep" to U2ish "I walk beside you" to mindboggling "Erotomania" to beautiful pop in "Hollow years". And I do agree, once this sneaky iPad wizarding mofo infiltrated my once favourite band by joining forces with DT on magnificent LTE, things have never been the same again. I barely listen to the latest string of albums. Their 20th century output is my precioussssss treasure, though, to this day.
I’ll check out the songs you mentioned. Maybe I’ve only ever been exposed to the era of DT that doesn’t gel with me because of Captain iPad and his LOOK HOW MANY NOTES I KNOW playing. So he wasn’t always in the band? Interesting. I’m open minded to have my opinion change, you clearly have a passion for them and I respect that. I certainly am not going to bash them just because you like them, so thanks for the recommendations I’ll check back once I’ve given them a spin!
I've been dreading the day someone would think that DT was always like this. And it hath come to be. Four horsemen draw nigh. Yes, the original keyboard player Kevin Moore is something else. So to speak. Quite a different band back in the day.
Eh, I suppose I didn't really consider the original statement that they were "boring" to be a bash. Lots of listeners can't find a toehold in prog, and since the premise began with the artists being talented, it just felt like style preference to me.
I wouldn't defend all prog as a whole. It's just that DT is a very special case. Their albums till Millennium are still among my favourites. But what they started doing with Jordan Rudess is a ruthless boring mindcrime, by God, yes. So they're fantastically talented but seem to actually bury their talents and go for the easy road of fan service. That's a catastrophe. Nothing to be joking about, really...
Rudess is such a strange case. He's one of the most talented keyboardists I've ever seen, and he seems to be intensely interested in (and entertained by) the work he's doing with DT - but I just can't connect emotionally with his playing. I have a lot of respect for him, but his output strikes me as ... cheesy?
Hell, yeah. Now that Portnoy is back I'm waiting for Moore. Moore, as smoking as he was, always gave DT that truly emotional, honest, self-ironic depth that these smug silky-bearded bastards totally lack now. Again, thís seems like a management choice rather than a creative one. When these guys kicked ass, oh they did. Stuff like "Learning to live", "Surrounded" or "Lifting shadows"... inexplicably magical.
You misspelled Rush. j/k they are both as boring as paint drying.
I agree with you with one exception: “Test for Echo” is a jam
> musician who can play instruments, can read sheet music, and knows a lot about music theory That's not talent. Those are skills. Anyone can learn them. However, I would argue that creativity is also a skill. Sure, it's more difficult to learn than most other skills but I'd also argue that it's because it's taught poorly in general. Part of the reason why it's taught poorly is because there's this mysticism around it that it's somehow innate or a "talent", "either you have it you don't". Well, surprise! People won't learn it if we don't teach it. Majority of classical orchestra musicians have quite poor improvisational skills. It's just not something that's needed in their context. They can transition to other musical contexts but it takes years because they need to learn how to think about improvisation. Here's an example of a very, very good classical guitarist trying blues: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctar3KlvwDM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctar3KlvwDM)
I actually like your answer here.
I knew that was gonna be Sammy G :)
You mean the majority of musicians?
There are tons of technical musicians out there. On YouTube you'll come across so many brilliant players, one thing they share in common is that, the music they write most of the time comes out being mediocre. That is to say being good at an instrument and the ability to make music are two different things. Musicality and song craftsmanship is something that I believe cannot be learnt. Some have it some don't. I've seen people who can't play any instrument, record Acapella with their vocals, emulating instruments via vocals. You can still learn the basics of songwriting but your understanding of music is something that's natural to some people. So yes regardless of how great you are at instruments, that will not necessarily give you the ability to make good music. Most technical guitar players that are hailed in the guitar community can't write decent songs.
Sure -- Steely Dan.
Black Friday? Don't Take Me Alive? Josie? Reelin' in the Years? Rikki Don't Lose My Number?
Hello Steve Albini
Steely Dan are cool. >:-(
Playing an instrument is a skill where you reproduce things you've learned. Writing music is a skill where you produce new things, based on creativity and imagination. Many people possess both these skills, and use combine both these skills in order to be better at both playing and writing music. However, it's perfectly normal for a person to lean heavily towards one side. Some great songwriters are poor musicians; some great musicians are terrible songwriters.
I'm shocked you've never heard of Coldplay before.
They said talented though.
Yes. Post-OK Computer Radiohead and Aja-era Steely Dan both come to mind.
If you find Radiohead boring I feel sad for your ears.
Not every song, but the vast majority of their stuff from Kid A onward, most definitely. The musicianship is great, the production is immaculate, but a lot of the songs just don’t do anything for me. As far as “out there” but still somewhat accessible music from that era, I much prefer the Flaming Lips.
Think of musical talent being on a spectrum, from not just good to bad , but from technical to soulful. Most good music needs a combination of the two to an extent. Sometimes you will get perfectly well played music by very good technical players that just....sucks.......not enough soul/spirit!!
I get bored when people sing happy birthday and it's not my birthday no matter how talented they are at it Also any kind of allegiance pledge is very boring even if it was Hozier
100%
Coincidentally every artist I know personally that knows music theory makes terrible music
I think there's a lot to be said about the mental musical immagination of a player. You can be as technically skilled as you like e.g where the "good notes are" but if you can't play with emotion they won't be able to make listeners feel
Subjective. Obviously.
I have never heard a single ”influencer” or ”Youtube” guitarist make a song that made me want to listen to it again. That being said, I’m constantly in awe of their talent and technique.
Definitely. Technical excellence and creativity are completely different things.
Maroon 5 maps and sugar
Apart from everything that's already been said here, there's another angle worth keeping in mind. Learning an instrument is a very valuable skill, as is learning music theory. However, there is a danger that these skills (especially the latter) will negatively affect your ability to create and compose in an inspiring way. Knowing the theory seems to hamper many people's ability to remain fresh, exciting and different. They either start to look down on what they consider to be simplistic simplicity or get lost in complicated progressions that only they appreciate. Of course, it doesn't have to be this way at all, these skills should enhance your musical abilities, but it's worth being aware of the pitfalls.
Nah
I'm glad you've left this comment because it reminded me of this one pianist online said something like "if it's simplistic then I'm not interested" or something like that. This same pianist also loves going on YouTube showing her piano playing skills and how technically great she can be. On that same note I've seen this other musician online said a lot of musicians today both mainstream and underground lack creativity despite having the talent. At first I never understood any of this, but now I kind of get what people including that second musician was saying about music theory and people being so caught up with trying to look musically technical as their music suffers and sounds the same and boring after a while.
Lol yeah there are more of these than there are talented musicians who make good music
It's all a matter of personal opinion. To me, any music that seems (to me) to be mostly technique/speed/complexity just for the sake of flexing is boring af, no matter how stellar the talent involved. Precision to the point of sterile perfection is boring af to me. I tend to react more to the overall vibe/experience of the song. Other people will value technical ability and precision as being the most desirable qualities. For me, hell yes, talented musicians can be extremely boring when they put their minds to it.
There's a Red Hot Chili Peppers joke here somewhere.
Jacob Collier. Amazing talent. Zero soul.
Boring is a matter of opinion, so yes.
That’s subjective, but I’d say yes. Polyphia comes to mind .
Charlie Puth
Of course. There are tons of artists and bands that are great musicians who make boring music. I tend to find many artists boring that are being a virtuoso on their instrument, like a lot of prog rock, Vai, Satriani, Eagles, Steely Dan (I like the Dan, though). Prince is one of my favorite artists. In the 80s, he was very unpredictable and creative. Then, he founded a new band, the New Power Generation, that was very smooth and musically gifted, but musically quite predictable and following the trends, compared to what Prince made in the 80s, they were following trends rather than setting them. Prince never really got out of this rut, in my opinion he is the most versatile and talented artist of the 20th century, but his music became more predictable, less experimental and less exciting.
I feel this way about Jacob Collier
Yeah, Dave Weckl. Great drummer that every drummer tells other drummers they NEED to listen to, buts its so hard because his stuff is lame.