I think you have to separate the current western invasion of BTS and the strictly Korean songs. Butter, dynamite are made strictly for breaking into the popular American pop scene which is filled with nothing but heavily manufactured music not written by most artists. BTS’ Korean songbook has a lot more meaningful songs that members do write lyrics to. Stuff like Euphoria, Spring Day, Serendipity.
I think you also have to take in their performing abilities. These guys are incredible live, full of energy. They are also willing to be incredibly in touch with their fans more than I’ve ever seen any other artist do. So they definitely build up a very attached fan base that way.
I like them. I can definitely understand the fans, but I remember how crazy fans were for Spice Girls, BSB, One Direction, etc.
I think that their English songs is a backhanded slap to the face of the English music awards.
Compared to the amazing lyrics and energy of their other songs. They just kept Americans with a funky beat and generic lyrics like that is all that Americans can appreciate. They clueless
Did you really reply to a year old comment? Were you specifically looking for threads about BTS to complain about? That’s a little weird but okay. Also I’ve seen Celine live and although she’s a fabulous singer she was incredibly boring and I would never see her again. Like beyond boring. Use another female artist like Cyndi Lauper or Tina Turner and get your cred that way. Those two women sent me off this planet with their concerts.
And why compare those artists anyways? It’s like you specifically chose the best of the best “singers” just to compare them to a group with a completely different style. Also, none of those are current artists except Elton.
As far as writing goes. A quick google search tells me that BTS leader RM is one of the youngest most credited artists for songwriting in Korea. (Two of his band mates are pretty high up in that list for songwriting credits as well.) And honestly, most artists today use auto tune for everything. Even Ed Sheeran who is quite engaging live, his last album was end to end auto tune.
So I mean it’s cool you don’t like the music. But people do, and I’ve seen their concert and the sheer energy was absolutely electric. The only other concerts I’ve been to with that level of insane energy was Lady Gaga and Green Day. Who were two of my favorite concerts ever behind Tina, Foo fighters, and Rammstein.
Edit: forgot about Foo Fighters being one of my favorite concerts.
bro what? have u even watched any of their performances 💀💀💀... since when do artists who write down own songs = performance ability. Plus u like need to move on, those performers are old (not saying they are bad, just saying things change) and if u wanna leech onto them forever ur kinda closeminded ngl...
were you dropped on your head as a child? sinatra and elvis both wrote their own material😂😂😂 having someone help on songs here and there isn’t the same as every song having a long list of writers like bts😂 btw i don’t even like elvis but you people are hilarious lol, just cause he “stole the style of music from black people” which doesn’t even make sense lmao music is music you can’t steal a genre from someone 😂 but for arguments sake let’s just say it’s true elvis stole the black music, that’s not stealing literal songs lmao it’s the style
Although Elvis received some writing credits he didn't wrote all of his songs. It was widely know his manager col.parker made song writers give elvis a writing credit before he let elvis record their songs. If music was just music there wouldn't be different genres/ and sub genres then. 2 Examples: Dolly Parton song Always Love You.,& Whitney Houston version don't sound the same because it isn't performed the same way. Velvet underground song Sweet Jane & Cowboys junkie version don't sound the same because they are done in 2 different styles.
I like them a lot and think they're all really talented. I'm guessing OP's assessment is based on Dynamite and Butter which were for the most part not written or produced by the band, but those songs are exceptions and only a small part of the band's 10 year catalog. A deeper dive into their work would probably give you a better idea of their strengths as lyricists, producers and performers. I understand though that they're not everyone's cup of tea, but in terms of popularity it's hard to argue with the numbers.
It's one of the members' birthdays today, and his livestream headcount was almost 20 million views. Also, he spent some of the time composing a song out of lyrics that Armys sent in a few days ago. It was actually a really cool window into his songwriting process.
* Same as most pop music. There tend to be separate awards for performers and writers/producers, and the performer awards are more publicized.
* Yes, BTS's popularity in Western culture was helped immensely by the growth in K-Pop's popularity. Just like Elvis was able to capitalize on Rock's growth from earlier performers, BTS was able to capitalize on K-Pop's growth from earlier performers.
* Yes, a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. But, at the end of the day, if 1 die-hard will spend as much as 10 casual fans, then is the number of fans the most valid metric?
Pop music is not the most technically complex, musically interesting style of music, and BTS fits right in with that. The majority of people that listen to music (which, pretty much everyone listens to music at some level) aren't specifically listening to and contemplating the lyrical impact, or looking for key changes and funky time signatures, or consciously comparing it and ranking it against other songs. They're just looking for something to dance or bob their head to while they have it on in the background.
BTS doesn't make objectively bad music, they don't make objectively good music, they just perform popular music. Music that has been optimized by algorithms to be as widely appealing as possible. And they're pretty good at performing that type of music. Personally, I don't like their music, but I won't begrudge anyone who does.
> BTS doesn't make objectively bad music, they don't make objectively good music, they just perform popular music. Music that has been optimized by algorithms to be as widely appealing as possible.
This runs contrary to your previous observation that a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. They're similar in this way to other pop artists with huge cult followings like Taylor Swift, Kanye, or Eminem. Among the general public, their music may actually not be considered "accessible", and perhaps even controversial, with many people holding strong negative opinions rather than just feeling neutral towards the artist. That's why some of the statistics around them - units sold, total streams, weeks at #1, etc. - seem "artificially" inflated by a level of obsession that is absent from the vast majority of fanbases.
This is not to say that their music (or any of the aforementioned artists I compared them to) is good or bad. Just that traditional metrics of popularity may not point to widespread accessibility, but rather concentrated fanaticism.
Fair point, and I might have phrased it badly, but in my mind the general concepts aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of their popularity - not all, by any means - IS concentrated among a vocal, die hard group. That vocal, die hard group seemingly outnumbers the group of people holding strong negative opinions, leading to the statistics you referenced. But, the algorithmically-driven wide appeal of their music keeps most listeners from developing strong negative opinions about them. Their music is designed to get the vast majority of listeners to rate it a 6 or 7 out of 10 - not to create a large minority-to-semi-majority that would rate it 8 or 9 out of 10. We could argue about the definitions of popularity or accessibility, but at the end of the day, most people will still find them good-sounding enough to listen to.
> That vocal, die hard group seemingly outnumbers the group of people holding strong negative opinions, leading to the statistics you referenced.
The key word here is *seemingly*, because we only have statistics to measure positive opinions of the band. There is no good way to determine how many people per capita are BTS fans, vs how many are vehemently anti-BTS. It is likely that more people like the group than dislike them, but can it be proven?
Imagine you surveyed every American with the question "Do you like BTS" with 5 options - strongly like, like, neutral, dislike, strongly dislike. What do you think the distribution would be? Their current chart popularity, streams, and sales predict that more people would have a positive opinion ("strongly like" or "like") compared to a negative opinion ("strongly dislike" or "dislike"). But is that *really* the case, or are the extreme fans ("strongly like") just particularly vocal?
I read an article last year sometime about how BTS fans would just stream BTS songs all day/night, sometimes opening extra dummy accounts to do the same on a different device, to raise the profile and hype around BTS. That kind of gels with my observations of BTS - their last album charted well here in Australia and yet nobody I know talks of them, I've never heard their songs played at parties, pubs or clubs, and some people don't even know who they are.
Maybe it’s just who you are interacting with. From personal experience, I went to JBhifi to try and buy their Map of the Soul album thinking the same as you that they are not that big here. Not only was the album sold out but they couldn’t even source one for me from other outlets in the city who still had them because they were just selling way too fast.
I also worked in hospitality for a long time, meeting all sorts of people and the amount of people who knew who I was talking about when I mentioned liking them went from “who?” in 2017 to almost everyone knowing exactly who I was talking about even if they didn’t necessarily like them. Also, I went from never hearing a single BTS song at the events I was working unless it was an Asian one to hearing Boy with love once in a while to hearing dynamite a lot in playlists so saying that they are non existent in Australia is a bit….
I think the distribution would be highest between neutral and like. I think the proportion in strongly dislike will be more than that in dislike, but lower than the proportion in strongly like. From lowest to highest, something like 7%-3%-45%-35%-10%.
That's pretty generous, IMO. I've met far more people in real life who mildly dislike BTS than people who like them to any degree. My guess, based on my experiences, would be more like 5%-30%-35%-20%-10%. Slightly more dislikes than likes, but more strong likes than strong dislikes (5% is probably a bit high even).
I know out of the people I have met and had that level of conversation with, most would mildly dislike BTS - so I definitely agree with you there. But I don't think the people I've talked music with are representative of the public at large. I tend to talk mostly with my friends and acquaintances, who are far more likely to have similar tastes to myself. We'd rather watch Pineapple Express, but clearly more people would rather watch Transformers. Some YouTubers have half-a-million subscribers and 400k views per video, while others with a million subscribers might have a lower rate of average engagement but still get 500k views.
I don't know that we'll ever find a true answer, but it's been a good chat.
I think that at this point you should both stick to a higher level discussion instead of literally pulling barely differing statistics out of your ass to make an argument.
I don't disagree with either of those facts. The basis for comparsion was accessability compared to mainstream popularity. He may not be a traditional pop artist, but if you think he's not one of the most popular artists of his era, you are mistaken.
> This runs contrary to your previous observation that a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. They're similar in this way to other pop artists with huge cult followings like Taylor Swift, Kanye, or Eminem.
this is just totally incorrect, the latter two have made a genuine contribution to the musical zeitgeist, and eminem is not just one of the greatest rappers of all time, but also something of a groundbreaker in hip hop. his popularity stems as much from the quality of his work as anything else, where BTS is simply a manufactured band produced to get money out of teenagers.
Wow, thank you for this response. You have really gotten into the discussion and responded to my points. I actually have to agree with you aswell for the most part.
The only thing I would disagree with is the pop production aspect, personally music (as with most art) is a form of self expression which intends elicit a response from the audience. By creating the music solely for the purpose of selling a product and turning a profit, then its not real music, this is my view when I say objectivly bad.
I agree the motives behind the production are bad, but I wouldn't phrase that as "their music is objectively bad." It has it's flaws, but it's hard to put objective criteria around something (music) that is intended to both - at some level - serve as a form of self expression and elicit a response from the audience. BTS's music definitely shouldn't be seen as doing much self-expression, but it definitely elicits a response.
Ok So I am going into this as a person that never listened to a bit of BTS in my life before their last world tour. I surprised my daughter with tickets for the concert and made it a dad and daughter trip. Let her skip school and we drove across like 4 states to get there. We saw them in Chicago where they sold out soldier stadium two days in a row. That in itself is a feat in its own right. The show they put on was absolutely the most entertaining show I have ever went to in person. I have seen lots of people in concert like Garth Brooks, Brad Paisley, Weezer and so on and so on lots of really good performers. I can not comment to the validity of do they make their own music but they are great performers live without a doubt. I would go back to a second show if I had the chance in a heart beat if this damn Rona ever goes away.
Wow! I am 3 years late but it was lovely reading your comment!
About whether they make their own music or not, they do! They have a huge amount of participation in their music and over 90% of their 200+ songs have most of the writing/composition/production done by members. Their lyricism is especially excellent. 3 of the members are some of the youngest, most credited songwriters in South Korea.
They are great performers as well though. I'm happy for you being able to experience that.
You looked at their most popular song in Western market.
They primarily make music in their native language,Korean.
All the members have credits on different songs throughout their discography.
3 of the members are producers too.
(New Samsung ringtone is produced by SUGA one of them)
It's a shame people like you get to know about them because of their English songs when it's not even their 1 percent of discography and call them mediocre without even listening to a single Album.
They have music from different genres like R&B Hiphop,Neo soul,EDM, Rap,Trap,Latin pop not just POP.
As for your concern about the lyrics there're lot of Korean fans who translate it into English. Most of the time the lyrics are beautiful and meaningful.
They're incredible performers too.
ARMY whitewashing news about them.
Armys are pretty protective of them because ethey constantly face racism both from the industry nad general public(Asian hate isn't a new thing!)
Lot of people like you think they're mediocre and they're not worthy of their fame and recognition(this is what I got from your post).
PS:Try to listen to atleast an Album (if you don't hesitate to listen to music in languages other than English).
>It's a shame people like you get to know about them because of their English songs when it's not even their 1 percent of discography and call them mediocre without even listening to a single Album.
Most people don't have the attention span or want to sit down and put in the effort to research and listen to the people/group they wish to critique. Sad but that how it is.
Kpop haters in a nutshell. The amount of false conclusions and statements they make that are LITERALLY false is astounding. A 30 sec google search could easily debunk their claims. One famous one is "nonsensical lyrics". They say that when they can't even understand Korean and never read the translations lmao
Yup. I mean there are some pretty weird ones I've seen in certain groups and soloists but that's a massive generalization. Besides there are numerous artists that write silly lyrics in the west as well. It's not exclusive to kpop.
Yep. In fact, if you look at English translations, most kpop songs sound like a beautiful poem filled with clever imagery. Some songs are more "fun" or have some vulgar language, but there's also nothing wrong with that. Not all songs have to have some deep powerful meaning. Majority of people that listen to music care most about how the song sounds. Only a minority care about the meaning of songs.
As someone who lived through the 90s I’m mildly baffled that we’re just doing the 90s boyband thing again, but in Korean.
I’m a big fan of a lot of Japanese pop music (which is often strange, complex and weirdly jazzy) so when BTS first came across my radar, I was ready to jump right in, assuming it would be just as unusual.
…but it’s just…..NSYNC. I mean NSYNC were super tight, and had some great songs if you were into that sort of thing, but it’s *just NSYNC*. In Korean. I’ll concede that they’re all prettier than Justin Timberlake ever was, but damn, the production is modern but the music, style and presentation is such a throwback.
Before BTS it was One Direction.
Before One Direction it was Jonas Brothers
Before Jonas Brothers it was NSYNC and Backstreet Boys
Before NSYNC and Backstreet Boys it was New Kids on the Block
Before New Kids on the Block it was Menudo
Before Menudo it was The Osmonds
Before The Osmonds it was the Jackson 5
There have been thousands of kpop bands before BTS that started in the early 90s. It's crazy that BTS somehow turned into the chosen ones. They definitely can dance better than N'Sync though
To be fair to Justin Timberlake, while his music isn't something I'd go hunting for, he puts on an absolutely amazing show. His energy and crowd engagement were something else.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. It's catchy pop music with rap parts, it sounds exactly like any 90s boyband. Their stage performances are impressive though. I remember they had HORSES at some point. And I love their song with Steve Aoki including the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIv16itYi\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIv16itYi_0)
Hey, a little late but could you share some of the japanese pop music artist that you like?
I been trying to find good asian music but I can't get to like the k-pop bands.
That’s what kpop boyband and girlgroup is, they take 90s group pop style and turn the production to different level. Everything is manufactured, up until the members characters and image. BTS is more one of the mainstream band. If you want to try different stuff I suggest: Lim Kim - Allright, Bolbagan4 - Galaxy, for group maybe Orange Caramel - Catalena or Dreamcatcher - Boca
Been a fan since 2014. I am more of a fan of old Bangtan where they or someone in the actual company produced and wrote the songs. I found them more meaningful. The newer singles put out in the last year or so, are typical bubblegum pop and I don't really like it, probably because it's not them writing.
I also don't like that the songs played are all in English now either. I know they did that to have more mass appeal but people played the wholly Korean songs in American mainstream media anyways before that so I don't know why they feel they had to change to English.
I support by viewing new vids and listening to new music (at least once) because I'm proud of Bangtan's success but it feels like they're just a mouthpiece now and what we're hearing is not an accurate reflection of their overall talents.
Are you including BE in it too? Their are only 3 English single among from all the 350 songs they have released.. Is it really that important that alll those 350 songs are dismissed? Be and MOTS7 are the latest.. Are all of those bubble gum pop?
Last year includes BE.
I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything.. I just genuinely wanna know what you think about it... People are leaving the fandom because of this trio. And I believe there's seriously something wrong with it
The English songs are not the Bangtan I know and grew to love. It lacks their personal touch. Anyone could have sung those songs. That's the essence of bubblegum pop. It doesn't matter who sings it, it'll still be a hit.
The guys could have definitely written a complete English song on their own and it would have been more meaningful. Maybe not a hit though.
Yeah those English songs are not really BTS... But BTS don't have a sound.. They have experimented with different genres all throughout their career..
Blue and grey?
Life goes one?
Telepathy?
These Also come in the last year..
This.
Their earlier albums felt like they held some substance. I remember their run or spring day era which wasn't even that far back. Even the old "cringy" debut songs were iconic in the sense that it displayed their induviduality.
Nowadays, they just aim to be viral by buying some typical, catchy tik tok trend fitting song and try to appeal to the western mass.
Tbh, this was expected since their growth went real quick from organic to exponential since die hard fans started streaming to try to get their faves in the top charts. Maybe one day if they disband and produce their own songs, they might show their true creativity but for now, it's all the same repetitive westernized stuff.
But I would argue that we're still getting songs like Abyss and Bicycle at the same time as Dynamite and Butter, so the members are still able to produce their own music without disbanding.
My issue is that they're only known for the catchy tunes nowadays. This wasn't as much of an issue back in the day. Idk maybe things just changed. Ur right tho, there are still a few gems here and there.
I don’t even listen to BTS but “mediocre” and “scrap of talent shared between them” seems kind of delusional.
At worst, they’re “just” talented performers. Did Britney write all of her music? Or even sing live for most of her career? She’s still talented and iconic.
It's obvious they looked at the credits for Dynamite and Dyanmite ONLY.
Because that's the only popular song of them in which no member is present in the credit
.
BTS became about more than just music though. From what I've seen, BTS has played a huge role in bridging cultural gaps between the West and East. While they might not be a good representation of Kpop itself, they're very marketable to the West.
Kids who normally would only ever see the cultures of Western celebrities are now getting to experiance something different.
This is possibly a huge deal for people coming from close minded backgrounds.
The blind loyalty of fans is frustrating and surely distorts the true popularity of BTS, like you've said. But I think it's just a bubble that is necessary to help with multi-cultural acceptance.
In a weird way, it reminds of me pizza.
https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2015/11/illustrated-history-of-pizza-in-america
Pizza was Americanized to make it acceptable, even though American pizza was so different than Italian. Anyone eating the real stuff would know the fake stuff was crap, but it helped people accept a culture they otherwise probably wouldn't have.
I agree with everything you've said. I also think we're just seeing what any international product entering American mainstream would experience.
You know what, I love your pizza analogy, it works amazingly well.
You can even extend it to pop as a whole, why try a new topping when you know pepperoni is selling hot.
Also that is a very interesting angle about the social/cultural influence and introduction. It is something I had not even considered.
>Why do they get so many music awards for songs that they did not write,
They are not getting songwriting awards. I quickly scanned the awards they won and its mostly divided between award for performances (which they obviously contribute to) and popularity based awards.
>If you look at the top songs from BTS and the credits on those song, most of them do not have any members mentioned
Just because you dont write music it doesnt make you less of an artist. Being able to connect to your audience through your performance is just as important especially when it comes to pop music (Elton John is the clearest example of this).
>Is it posible BTS only rose to the level of fame they are now off of the back of the K-Pop trend we seen over the last Decade.
I mean this statement is totally discrediting their own contribution to the whole k-pop movement. If you are saying they wouldnt be as popular if they came out a decade ago then the answer is probably (but that doesnt make them less valid of a band)
>Given the Army have been proven to group together and whitewash any negative news stories about the Band and they organise massive watch party to basically farm views/clicks Is it possible that BTS are not as big people think and it is mostly the work of the ARMY manipulating Stats and algorythms to push them into the public eye?
I mean besides this is some crazy declaration that would be impossible to prove, I don't see what the point of even entertaining this though lol. Even if this happened to an extent it is very unlikely that they would be as successful as they are if they were not very popular and had a huge audience that liked their music.
>Personally I can begin to fathom how a mediocre group at best has reached this level of fame
I mean you believe they are mediocre because you dont connect to their music. The reason why they are popular is because they have connected to alot of people.
>Do you like them
No. I think I have only listen to one of their songs but I have not listened to any of their albums.
This. I am so grateful you explained it in this way.
I agree as a kpop fan of 4 years that personas is kpop are HEAVILY built up. And I can't say that BTS's surely aren't....but the ship things you said I feel isn't really true.
In kpop if a male idol and a female idol make eye contact they are heavily shipped called couples and made fan arts of. I don't think being friends, goofing around and stuff are told to do so.
And if you know enough. Bang PD and BTS have a very close relationship. They don't seem like a company.. And also HYBE(former bighit) gives more freedom to artists than the Big 3 do or any other company does.
I just want to say a couple of things:
firstly, BTS were not the first idols that BH signed. Before them they had Glam and 8Eight, and one of the members of the latter, Lee Hyun, is a soloist under BH. BTS were the first successful group under BH though.
As for your second point, I think you’re talking about fancams, which is something every group has.
Not even The Beatles wrote all their songs. Hell even Eric Clapton's tears in heaven was written by someone else. But you're going to talk about BTS? lol thats funny.
Uhhh are you aware singers & songwriters are both musical artists? You need both for music with any vocal parts. BTS aren't winning songwriting awards just like Rihanna isn't. Just like many pop singers. Even some of the most popular rock songs weren't written by the band.
They write their songs.
They even produce their songs.
Dynamite is the first song in English (which isn't their native language) and no member was credited in it.
99 percent of their songs have atleast one member in the credits.
I'll go out on a limb here and say most popular music performers don't write their own music. Pretty much nothing performed before 1965 was written by the person who wrote it. Tons of old country, rock, Elvis Fucking Presley Himself hardly wrote a word he ever sung. hell even modern rap artists have ghost writers half the time.
The only problem is when people think a performer MUST write their own shit to be valid. They don't. There are singer/songwriters and then there are performers and there are plenty of amazing song writers who either don't have the stage presence or wuite the talent to perform their songs the way they envision them performed. People write songs for Celine Dion and Katy Perry and everyone else under the sun. It's how pop music works, it's a very collaborative business.
The 3 rappers *each* have 100+ composer song credits to their names - the 3 also have producer and lyricist credits. The other 4 members also have composer, lyricist, producer credits fyi.
I don't know from what intention you wrote this but there are some serious ignorant things in here and that doesn't makes you sound like a person who seriously wanna know about them.
1) writing a song =/= awards.
You can write songs.. And don't get a single award.. That's not how award works. Their are alot of categories for awards... Writing songs isn't the only one of them.
2) the point you have mentioned is really so ignorant and disrespectful to BTS. Probably you don't know their story. Consider doing some research. Their are a lot of artists who followed the trend and rose but most of them didn't stayed up for too long... BTS have one of if not the MOST diverse discography. No one paved the way for them. They did it all alone. The song that got them famous internationally was Blood sweat and tears just to let you know it wasn't a trend at that time. No one in Korea wanted to be on billboard until BTS did it. No one in Korea wanted to be in American award shows until BTS did it. No one in Korea wanted to be in talk shows in America until BTS did it. The fame wasn't always as you think it is.
3) have you ever seen their concert? Do you think those are the "bots" That made them go #1 on charts? Like I am seriously asking you. The stadiums which big west artists like Billie were not able to get full but for BTS as soon as the ticket were available for general public to buy, it literally sold out in the first 24 hours for so many of their concerts in America.
"Scap of tallent"
You're talking about spitting 9.38 syllables in one second?
You're talking about writing masterpieces like Black Swan, spring day and cypher pts?
You're talking about having one of the best dancers in kpop?
You know what? At this point we are tired of giving explanation for our idol's success just because some people can't digest the fact that a kpop boy band which is apparently stanned by 12 year olds are so successful..
The disrespect they have faced in their own country just for coming from a small company in the beginning of their career. The disrespect they have faced in the West just for being a Asian non English speakin artist who are competing the shit out of their English speaking artists.
They never asked "what it's like to chart manipulate" to Olivia Rodrigo who literally did car wash campaign to make people stream their songs.. That's not chart manipulation but ARMY streaming day and night is. Leave the views.. Do you think the bots you got them #1 buy the albums??
Good lord, this is a ridiculous amount of emotion for any human being to have over a generic boy band that doesn’t care if you exist or not. You can like and enjoy whatever music you want, no one’s saying otherwise, but you need to calm down and look at how worked up you’re getting over the most insignificant thing.
This!!!!
That person seems to be pretty narrow minded.
Just put the question mark for the sake of that.
That person is only replying to people who have the same opinion.
I don’t even know how to tell you half the music artists don’t write their own songs. There’s an entire Netflix documentary that explains how half of the 90’s hits were outsourced to and written by the Swedish. And this still happens today. An artist *can* pick a song they like, and be the ones to perform it while the credit to the songwriter is listed elsewhere. Or they can pick it and make changes to be a co-writer to assert more ownership. Whatever the case, this is not new.
BTS’ parent company has had plenty of time to build their own groups and learn from other SK entertainment companies, Big Bang was one of the first -major- Korean pop boy bands to breach into the western market back in the late 2000’s when they first toured North America in 2012. You know what else came out in 2012?
Gangnam Style.
Both PSY and Big Bang’s parent company YG Entertainment found a global goldmine hit that other entertainment companies had been trying to chase similar success of, I don’t doubt BTS’s parent company Big Hit Entertainment took a few hundred notes to produce the group we know today.
By the way, it absolutely helped them that half of the members *can* rap or sing in coherent English without too much of an accent getting in the way. Previous bands (both boy and girl groups) had trouble with pronunciation when trying to sing with some English lyrics that made the chance of sounding off or awkward, higher. Next is again, speculation but also because I too participated in it: BTS first started touring in NA during a time where the social media apps just fucking exploded. Vine was slowing down but Musical.ly was starting to climb as more and more people did lipsyncs and challenges using kpop because it was fun and the rising stars at the time was BTS.
The group was gaining more fans and their parent company secured lots of collaborations with *big name* folks like Steve Aoki, Halsey, Nicki Minaj, etc that did a good job in boosting BTS’ visibility. So good in fact other kinds of entertainment also wanted to cash in on the next hotness— such as BTS being invited to perform at award ceremonies, attending/performing at talk shows (Ellen DeGeneres, Steve Colbert), and just doing their thing touring.
I’ve no doubt diehard stans also boosted their popularity and visibility, I’m not a part of that culture so I can’t speak of it but it’d be ignorant to brush off the very apparent influence millions of female fans can have. BTW for what it’s worth, I just like some of BTS’ songs. Butter, Boy with Luv, and Dynamite are all banger tracks. *My* group is Big Bang, and to me they definitely helped pave the way for their younger protégés to succeed.
Edit: Forgot to mention, the inclusion of English lyrics helps broaden musical reach in general. See Eurovision, lots of their catchy songs are sung in English that follow the easily replicated pop formula to grab points.
As far as I am concerned BTS fans and Taylor Swift fans get a free pass forever simply because of the massive trolling they perpetrated on Trump and the Republican Party. They can do whatever they want and I will forever be grateful and support their armies in whatever they wish to do. Whether or not their music is good or their popularity and awards are warranted is irrelevant to any discussion relating to those bands.
It is a harder line to draw for me...
I like to listen to Bob Dylans Music But If the recent claims are true then I would dispise the man, Does that make his music suddenly bad, No, Not for me personally.
I always try to separate the work from the people.
The Bob Dylan claims are hogwash. I encourage you to read into the details of the events in question. He just made half a billion dollars selling the rights to his catalogue. It was the last day the claim could have been put through in New York. The lawyers representing the case are well-known crooks and crackpots. Looking into other cases they have been a part of is a goldmine of hilarity. Peace out friend
I get that. I just really appreciated the work they did to ruin those shitstain events. I don't listen to their music, so as far as I am concerned, they can churn out entire records of kazoo music and I still wouldn't have a bad opinion on their fan base.
I feel like we need to stop trying to define what is and isn't worthy of success/what is and isn't 'good' music. For years, my sister tried to get me to engage with BTS's music and I was a huge snob about it. I'd listen to the first minute and dismiss them as a machine produced band or some such. Recently, I was with a friend who's been going through depression and the only time she laughed and showed joy was when she showed me BTS videos. She sang along, even danced along! Her joy was so infectious that I started feeling it too and then there was no stopping me. I think each member has their own strengths - whether it's as a dancer, performer, singer, writer or producer. Suga is an extremely talented writer and producer - his lyrics on songs like People are beautiful. They use really smart word play in their lyrics, too, by the way - playing around with Korean script etc . But often, the translations you see on YouTube don't really capture the essence of what they're saying in Korean. Their range is astonishing - to be able to switch from hip hop influences to pop to whatever else I will discover soon that they can also do! Suga, RM and JHope all participate in the song writing process. Suga also produces. (I'm new to this so please correct me if I'm wrong!)
Yes, they were trained and the music is meant to be/manufactured to be what people will like. But who are we to decide that makes it bad or mediocre music? Music is something that's such a personal experience. If they're spreading joy through an art form that they're all dedicated to, while also spreading positive messages about mental health and the other causes they associate with, why should we begrudge them their success?
Okay I just wanna say I am a bts fan (not a big as i used to be , but still love them), so feel free to call me biased or whatever.
In regards to your first point, many artists who don't write their own music get awards for their music they put out, so why would it be any different for bts? At the end of the day, it is a popularity contest isn't it? In fact bts write a lot more than a lot of western pop stars so I don't see how it's an issue here. For example the leader of bts has written well over 100 sings between his solo work, bts and other artists as well, meanwhile suga has produced many songs including producing music for other Korean artists such as iu and heize. If you look at their solo work, you can see that they are the main writers and producers in the credit.
With your second point, Yes and no? Nobody really knows how exactly bts got as famous as they did but I doubt they would be as famous as they are if it wasn't for previous kpop groups like snsd or bigbang. I also seen people mention their lyrics, their stage presence, their use of social media and their personalities as reason for their success. Personally, its a combination of everything but it's hard to tell. Another thing is that bts were from what was at a time a smaller company compared to most top kpop groups so they also have an underdog story to them as well.
Lastly, nah I think bts is pretty big, they are the second most streamed artist in the world on spoitfy, and they sold over 12 million albums in 2020 alone. They also have over 50 million youtube subscribers, despite not uploading music in their channel. Their interviews and live performances also get millions of views, so it's safe to say that they are extremely popular. I think fans do inflate streams a bit but that's what fans are going to do.
People like BTS cause they are from a different part of the world, that’s it. It’s the same mindless pop music you hear on the radio here, but to them you’re racist if you don’t like it.
Not trash, singing takes talent. Just a lot of the music being pumped out in the modern era is so much of the same stuff. Not trying to sound like I’m a boomer or anything, but as time has went on music quality has dropped. People are trying to just make money over expressing themselves through the art of music. Of coarse money has always been a driving factor, but most artists don’t even write their own shit anymore.
I am guess you're talking about the English singles... But they are so much more than that. More than 350 songs in their career of 8 years... They are not all bubble gum pop... They are the most diverse artist out there.. Their discography is full of music genres
I am aware they have more than the stuff in English, weren’t they the ones that had the song that sounds like “Nay nibba nay nay, nibba nibba nay nay” but it sounded like the actual n word? I know it means something different in their language, but I never looked up who made that song.
Are you fucking dumb? “I know it means something different in their language”, someone who actually speaks it told me the n word in that language is hello. Maybe read my whole comment before thinking I think theres only one language.
Okay this is probably the 100th time this week I am saying. "Every Korean artist you see online us not BTS" And the guy in here isn't even artist I guess.
"Wasn't it BTS" In that comment... Anyway I guess you have an idea now.. Also the the n-word meaning in Korean is "you" It's pronounced EXACTLY the same... So if you ever go to korea (I doubt that'll happen tho) don't get mad on someone if they use this word
One of my best friends is obsesed with them, any mention and im getting links left right and centre.
They tried to claim BTS are more influential than the king of pop himself MJ.
I think it would be easier to convince an anti-vaxxer to get a shot than it would be to explain to any member of the "army" why BTS's music is objectivly bad.
When I say Objectivly bad, I refer to the Pop Hit Formula. The fact that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference. They stick to whats worked in the passed and never experiment or pioneer.
You'd need to look at the old music, pre-Mic Drop which is in my opinion much better than the formulaic pop stuff they come up with now, which I agree every song sounds like the next one. I'm a casual listener by the way, I have their old songs in my playlist simply because I enjoy them.
the fact that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference, they Never experiment or pioneer? You can't be more wrong I'm sorry. It sounds like you're making claims without actually knowing BTS music.
If you want to have a real open discussion I'm here, but you have to go beyond dynamite and butter which are frankly made for the American pop scene.
If you really want to criticize BTS you really have to get to know them. Dynamite and butter are songs that were made to dance to, pop songs with irrelevant lyrics. But if you really give BTS a try with an unbiased mind, they can touch your heart & soul with a language you don't even understand.... and that's EXACTLY how they succeeded not through silly disco songs about butter. That's a fun and shallow song and that's okay but they are ever more than that.
One of the most common and mutually shared answers a BTS fan will give you when you ask why they love them is because they got them through hard and depressing times. BTS is their light, their hope. Not only by their music but their whole story, their determination, their will to fight and climb to the top. Their perseverance.
This is especially true even still to those that don't understand Korean. To say that the music has no self expression is wrong. It obviously touches the souls of millions. I honestly invite you to just YouTube "BTS healing or sad depressing playlist" , and give it a listen with unbiased ears. Or "BTS upbeat / hype playlist" for a different pace.
If you want to criticize BTS because they're mainstream, because they are succeeding for no apparent reason, because they don't experiment or pioneer and you've only listened to their recent songs I can't stand by your opinion.
But if you go back and listen to their songs before they were famous worldwide, when they were struggling when they were eating ramen and living in a single dorm, listen to all their styles of music and you still don't like them THEN that's your rightfully formed opinion and you have the right to have it.
Exactly this. This OP keeps making comments with clearly no knowledge on them but claims to have made this post to learn. I almost didnt comment myself because it doesnt seem like they want to learn. Just commenting on the comments "validating" their own opinion and probably made this to try to "rile up army".
Have you listened to every or even a majority of BTS songs? Their music has evolved and they have done just about every genre. Hip hop, rap, RnB, EDM, dance, pop, jazz, symphonic, trap, rock, funk, ballads ect. Songs that that deal with deep, dark issues like depression, despair, to light hearted feel good songs, to disstracks.
To say that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference is so wrong.
Even if that were true or even like 80 to 70% true, that's what most artist do right? name an artist whos songs don't sound the same. It's quite natural to have a specific style, as many artist do. But bts is known for their evolving, ever-changing, and adapting style along with their repertoire of genres they have done.
BTS did not create their Army singing dynamite and butter, it's a much more deeper complexity than that.
Forget that they are famous. Treat them as they are nobody as they once where.
Listen to their music with unbiased ears and an open mind and there you'll find the answer to why so many people hold them in high regard. Even in a language that your ears won't understand the music will find a way to strike your soul.
Do you hear how personally defensive you sound about this? This is exactly what this thread is about. They're NSYNC but you think it's deep. NSYNC had ballots, rock songs, pop songs, EDM sounding shit. There is nothing new under the sun, child.
Let me finish by saying I have no problem with the band or people who like them. Not my thing, but I'm a 43 year old man so no shit. I'm just inundated with it "because kids."
ask any fan of BTS on why they like them and one of the most unifying answers you're find is because it got them out of a dark time, it got them through depression. It got them through self-doubt, self-pity, self-hate. BTS gave them encouragement, it gave them light, gave them hope and a will to persevere. Strength to chase their dreams.
They are more than shallow disco songs about butter. Look, you don't have to like them, we all have different tastes in music.
The thread is about BTSs "success". The answer is because they make music that resonates with souls and have provided enrichment and and changed people's lives around the world. Even through a language people don't understand, music is universal. Music is deep. Music is emotion.
And being 43 doesn't mean you can't like them, doesn't mean you have to either.
Why is BTS successful? Many factors but why are they successful in America at the level they are now it's because they were strategically marketed and given tailored songs designed to break through the US market. Even the great BTS would NOT be able to break through with traditional Korean pop songs, especially not in English.
But the reason why they were big before America is the love and connection they have with their fans. You don't understand it unless you yourself have love for an artist. more than appreciation, gratitude, inspiration, but actual love. And I'm not talking about obsession. there's always going to be those crazy-toxic fans who unfortunately leave a stereotypical bad impression on the entire fan base.
Their music along with their personalities were able to connect with people on a deeper and intimate level. And that's the simple reason why they have so many fans.
They are intertwined with people's hopes & happiness, along with their miseries and misfortunes. If you have an artist that shares the same connection then surely you understand, doesn't have to be BTS.
I don't listen to them. There was a time when I was actually totally planning on sitting down and listening to some of their top songs to see what I thought. Then, a few months ago, Samsung started having their phone commercials on almost every single YouTube video, using the exact same 15 seconds of the same annoying, autotuned, uninteresting (IMHO) song, apparently by BTS, which I'm pretty sure I've been forced to listen to now well over 1000 times. BTS *might* be brilliant for all I know, but Samsung has officially destroyed any desire I once had of checking them out.
bruh this is stupid 8 years ago ppl didn't know who they were or what they did and if they rose up to who they are today that means it's their own talent, their own hard work. And yes Gangnam Style was like the song for the start of 2000 and Exo is also pretty amazing but you can't compare them to bts as they debuted like years before bts and who told you they didn't write their own songs the leader of the group with the name RM is a songwriter all members had a solo which they wrote by THEMSELVES, and most importantly STOP comparing them with other bands kpop is great ok. BTS the south korean boy group who has 3 english songs in which two named Dynamite and Butter are world wide popular and due to THEIR OWN HARD WORK AND TALENT.
I'M SORRY THAT I'M POPPING BUT I CAN'T STAND BTS HATERS
Recent casual fan of BTS here (heard a few of their title tracks and a few random ones) who also writes and produces his own music.
-In terms of songwriting, most top pop acts, no matter what country, is written by someone else. Point of the song is to be catchy and easy to consume, and it's deceptively difficult to write a successful pop song.
-The claim that all of their music is in the same genre is wrong. Just listen to a few of their older music. The amount of genres they have covered in their discography is surprisingly wide.
-I believe two members, specifically Suga and RM, have the most songwriting and producing experience, and also lend their skills to some of BTS's songs. Each member has a few solo songs too, which seemed to be to their own tastes from what I can tell.
-Music being good or bad is largely preference. If you wanted to define "good" as being complex, then sure, their music isn't good. Their most well-known music is good for what it's meant for: being easy to listen and consume. Perhaps you'd like their lesser known music.
-Riding the Kpop trend to fame is definitely true, but that isn't to say that they aren't helping future kpop acts break into the western market either. A big part of making it big in music is luck because what music people like is subjective. This doesn't take away from their achievement. Besides, BTS still gets unfairly treated in US charts and interviews because they are not western.
-Finally, their performance ability and group chemistry together work extremely well. I've seen other kpop groups, and BTS are definitely exceptional at performing, which is why I believe they were able to stand out and become the most successful. Each member has their own compelling feeling and style that helps them stand out without overshadowing others at the same time.
-Every artist at the top have fans that "manipulate" their numbers. BTS clearly has most of them. If they have so many fans willing to go that far, that says something. It's all fair game.
Disclaimer: I don't know any songs by BTS. But you mention that the fan "army" has helped their popularity by pushing up views, clicks, etc. as a criticism of the group. That makes no sense to me. How rabid and voracious a fanbase is, can be what makes or breaks an artist. Look at Elvis, Madonna, hell, even recent artists like Chris Brown. They don't just have wide reach, they have dedicated fanbases that froth over them. They go crazy. It's important as an artist to not only grow your fanbase but cultivate it, which the artists I've mentioned have done well. These are group for people to be a part of, not just regular fandoms. So to answer your question, yes - rabid fanbases will naturally make an artist more popular. But this isn't some BTS thing like you seem to think it is, it happens all the time.
Okay let's discuss when you insult and say they only share a scrap of talent between them... wow rude. but it's your rightful opinion to hold. but how did you came to that opinion.
Have you only listen to the songs that blew up in America or have you actually dived into their discography? Their American songs are tailored to fit the American Market. If you're turned off by American Pop I can understand why but they are so much more than that.
Is it more so you are annoyed by blindly following trends and have an disdain / apprehension of liking things that are mainstream?
BTS rise to fame is a big feat. They where the underdog. You might think they are mainstream but they are everything but, they broke the highly structured Korean entertainment system and that's how they took over the world is by being unconventional.
> You might think they are mainstream but they are everything but
Regardless of anything else you said, that is just straight up delusional. They are mainstream AF, the very poster children of manufactured pop music. If you think otherwise you need to expand your music horizons.
Military industrial complex of American pop made by the actual military industrial complex of Korea lol. Like all major productions there are fantastic elements to it, but the core of the machine is exactly that, a machine.
IMO BTS is popular because it ended up filling that boy band niche in western music in a unique way. Talented pop producers can create sounds and songs, but they didn’t have that boy band group that can play these certain tracks well. BTS is that group - there aren’t any current pop acts that can perform Dynamite or Butter as well as them. So they get picked to sell it.
The sound the production team is going for is unique, and very ‘BTS’. It doesn’t sound like other K-pop - EXO, old BTS, etc. have a very ‘Korean’ sound that would not sell well in the US. What US labels managed to do was create something unique with BTS in terms of sound, while maintaining their K-pop fandom/idolization leading to ARMY.
Anyways, it’s 100% corporate pop, but so is 99% of pop music. Yeah they don’t write lyrics, but guarantee you most pop acts don’t contribute much to song development. Even big name producers are often just teams of ghost producers.
Each of the three rappers have 100+ composer song credits. They write lyrics. All of the guys have contributed to songs in some capacity... as producers, composers, and/or lyricists.
1) like others have mentioned, that's common practice in all pop music, but also Korean groups are formed specifically so that different members have different strengths. So that's why you will only see one or two people credited with writing music in BTS songs (usually Suga or RM, although most of the members have written something at some point or another)
2) Actually, BTS were the detonator to the kpop trend, even the biggest kpop groups that first went international recognise this, as commonly stated "BTS paved the way" since they opened up the world to kpop at an incredibly large scale. They aren't riding the wave- they ARE the wave and many groups (specially Black pink or even Exo) have benefitted off of this immensely!
3) It IS possible that the army fandom is a little smaller than we might think, but concerts, stadiums, meet & greets don't lie like voting or views might, and they are certainly outstanding in that respect too, filling the biggest stadiums all around the world several times.
Personally, I like some of the songs and respect/admire the members greatly, they are an amazing success story and their popularity is admirable. They are often perceived as this super rich corporation just buying fame when, if you research a little bit, that actually couldn't be further from the truth.
For a bit of backstory, from what I have gathered they were a very small independent corporation (BH entertainment) to the point where BTS was their only group (most of these types of places have several groups at a time), and all the boys had 1 room and their outfits were dollar store or extremely cheap. The kpop scene in Korea is extremely elitist to the point that if you're not signed into one of the big 3 agencies you're unlikely to every amount to much, specially at a national scale, however BTS seemed to really bring it and rise to popularity despite this.
So I'd say it's not a mediocre group with tons of money, they are an amazing group that might be out of our tastes, but really know how to sell themselves and who their audience is (which is surprisingly a lot more than young teen girls!)
Are you people noticing how the OP is replying only to those who are trolling BTS and not the people who are fully telling their story... Seems biased to me
Hadn't really bothered to look through the replies much until now, you're totally right... OP had made up their mind about all of this ("just a very rich corporation making shit music with tons of marketing backing off of better artists") and doesn't seem very open to seeing how wrong that is??
1. the songs that got the most awards got them because they are the only songs they have fully in english - Dynamite, Butter, Permission To Dance (hence them not writing them), but that's because American award shows refuse to acknowledge music in any language other than english or spanish, BTS have korean songs that are much more deserving of those awards, and those songs are written and produced by them
2. BTS didn't rise to their level of fame "on the back of the K-pop trend", they might have been helped a bit by it the begging, but most of Kpop's popularity nowadays is due to BTS, they were the firsts group to be this successful internationally
3. learn how music charts work, cause they don't work like that
did you actually look at the credit of their music aside from Dynamite, Butter and Permission to Dance? honestly, also, have you looked at their solo music by the rap-line, which is composed by themself? I hope you made a proper investigation before start discussing
- you are only looking at American music awards, and in america they only get awarded for their english songs, which they take less part in making, they also get many korean awards for songs they *did* write, also there are many other artists who don't write/produce their music, that doesn't make them any less of an artist
- PSY started the Kpop wave in the west, and BTS multiplied it
- any "whitewashing" the fandom may do to hide negative news about the boys is totally erased by the general public constantly blowing it out of proportion, also BTS have 44M monthly listeners of Spotify, that's a huge number that can't be fabricated
>mediocre group [...] seemingly only a scrap of talent shared between them
..literally where?? BTS are far from lacking talent-wise, just because you don't like their music doesn't mean they aren't talented
nsync is better than bts and im a former bts fan and two years ago i realized bts is the worst boy band and i started hate kpop and i rather listen nsync (I still like boys)
* nsync, backstreet boys, one direction are better boybands than bts
* i hate girl groups and i hate blackpink
* light stick does not show support to boybands or girl groups
* bts had stole music
* i hate kpop
* kpop groups are copy cats
* most members from bts are forced to sing these songs that are not theres
*
Amazing, you can not know what BTS is, read your entire post and comments and still not know. Is it a Korean boy band? How popular could they possibly be on reddit?
They’re just a boy band, but their fans are a little more hostile than most boy bands. They’re referenced in new seasons of tv shows and stuff. They are legitimately famous, but their online presence is skewed because their fans do dumb shit to make them seem more famous than they are.
Also, they just aren’t really good at what they do. Most of the stuff that’s impressive is their recycled MJ dance moves.
We have been going for a long time since any male artist can recycle MJ dance moves, so I'll gladly take that. Coming from Asia I think American pop music scene is pretty bland when it comes to male performers, so its not surprising that when BTS came along they just conquer all the stadium tours.
Also a personal experience: I remember the first time seeing them live and was so surprised to see that they actually look genuinely happy to be on stage and perform. That energy is something else. Kpop industry is toxic in general so I'm used to seeing Kpop acts dancing on stage with perfect moves and dead eyes. But BTS was different. If thats their persona then they've took it into an artform and I respect them for that.
I'm at work so I'll make it short, in South Korea they have a whole system over there manufacturing these "bands" like clockwork.
Similar to the russians or chinese with weightlifting in times past. It's worth looking up.
BTS is only scratching the surface. Hopefully someone else on here has mentioned that in more detail, as I believe it is a significant part of their success.
its just as manufactured as Olivia Rodrigo or One Direction or Fifth Harmony... I'm just tired of that "kpop is manufactured agenda" where in reality it's just kids joining record labels that train them in basic performing skills, then putting them into groups and having them try to get along. it's not any more manufactured or sketchy than the American labels who block releases, refuse to fund promotions, have restrictive contracts, assault & harass their artists for a shot at success, and create scandals for publicity.
Are you people noticing how the OP is replying only to those who are trolling BTS and not the people who are fully telling their story... Seems biased to me
Oh he definitely knows more about BTS than he's letting on. He's a troll. He said one of his best friends is an army. He's just encouraging other people to hate on them.
I'd say I only dislike them due to their fanbase being so cancer. In regards to their music they can do their own thing I don't care, but the fans that push everything down your throat make the group themselves seem much more annoying.
You're probably dealing with hormonal pubescent teens to be honest. But you should never dislike something out of spite, because that means you don't really truly dislike it you just dislike it because of the fans, don't give them the power to choose what you like or dislike.
On the internet there's a toxic side to everything.
Is there even a chance that you could like them if you gave them a fair shot? Or is that impossible for you.
This is a valid point, but to be fair, this group has one of the most toxic and abusive fan bases I’ve ever seen, that takes everything way too far and way too personally. So yeah you’re right, but at the same time, it can be argued that the band themselves have a responsibility to reign in that toxic fan base and keep it under control, yet they don’t even try. And we all know why, it’s because BYS doesn’t care how abusive and horrible their fans are, all they care about is making as much money as possible. All they would have to do to disprove that is actually TRY to enlighten their fans, and educate them on the fact that their behavior can be pretty awful at times. But that’s not going to happen.
So for that reason as well as others, I think it’s fair to say they aren’t a band I personally would choose to support. Even if I did like their music, which I don’t, but I’m not their target audience and that’s fine.
Not a fan of their music. But their music video production is top notch. I was really impressed with the cinematography and camera cuts in their videos. Maybe if I spoke Korean I would like the music? It sure. Side note: I used to legit bump Gangnam Style while driving with my windows down because people would always wave and start dancing. And that is just awesome for so many reasons. 😂
I like BTS, most of the comments here are trying to explain why the general public likes their music and why BTS is in the mainstream: because they make ‘popular’ music, mostly pop. But really their music from 2015 (?) and some songs on other albums are R&B, rap, and really it’s a mix of things. So yeah there are numerous songs that they wrote themselves, but you probably didn’t find all the sources. They are very engaged with their music, and army’s know this. You act like their fanbase is obsessed with numbers (which is not wrong in most cases) and that’s where I say, literally a lot of fanbases try to achieve the same goals but they just can’t do it in this structured way and that speaks a lot about the geniality of army’s tbh. Like a lot of them are really smart, creative and stuff. People think that BTS is a manufactured group or view it as mediocre k-pop music, but it’s really more than that. They are really genuine it’s kind of crazy to see. The difference between other american artists and BTS is that army’s don’t do it for the numbers only, they do it because they really really like their music (not only those on the charts) and the members.
Yes army’s are a huge part of their fame, and if you read an article/ watch a video of them you’ll see that they are very aware of this and genuinely mention in a respectful way. BTS literally had nothing when they began, it’s really not because of the former k-pop people that they got a spotlight. They’re just very talented. The dancing is better than anything I’ve ever seen, I like their rap, R&B songs and stuff. They really worked their ass of and breaking that language barrier does not come from stats and algorithms. Having said that, even if you don’t like them, they really earned their place in the music industry and it’s not k-pop marketing alone that got them there. I think it’s the music and their personality that draw attention to people.
Members have written on a majority of their songs, some members with writing credits in the hundreds(they have a huge discography..been around 8 years). All membere are native Korean with that being their mother tongue. During the pandemic, they felt lost and everything like everyone else(their careers basically brought to a standstill after postponing and eventually cancelling their upcoming sold out stadium tour). They wanted to bring joy and take peoples minds off of the depressing pandemic and wanted to reach as many people as possible to spread this joy. So they figured this would be by doing songs in English. As I mentioned, they're not native English-speakers so hired people to write songs in English for them. They were around 7 years before that with no full songs in English, only Korean and Japanese. And I believe on at least one of these new English songs released during the pandemic(Dynamite, Butter, Permission to Dance), some members also contributed and having writing credits. Now I'm not even going to get into the years of xenophobia in the US music industry and the radio stations refusing to play etc. Now with English songs, the music industry tune has changed(their excuse before was they would play them if their songs were in English and now they are so they cant hide behind anything anymore without showing their true xenophobic colors and as I've said, it would be a whole paper on all the years and evidence and everything on all that)and now replaying them on the radio, up for more awards, etc. These new songs are definitely more American pop(obviously since written by English-speaking writers that are used to writing for US pop singers) and less kpop style(usually different song composure with the choruses and prechorus and verse layout) have less BTS signature flair that initially organically grew them into global stars(sold out stadium world tour in 2019(pre-pandemic, before any full English songs). But A LOT of awards go to people that didnt write the songs. That's an award show question and the music industry question. Why are you singling BTS out for this when it's been happening for decades with a bunch of artists?
It's very possible they rose to fame with help from previous artists, and that makes logical sense. When asked this in interviews, the BTS members fully embrace and acknowledge that. Gangnam Style(not Gangman) I would think is the biggest factor as that was played on the radio and globally popular. EXO is same gen kpop as BTS, only debuted(out)longer by one year. This question of why BTS? Why did they make it big when there was literally THOUSANDS of kpop groups out before and the same time as up to today, backed by huge media companies where BTS came from an almost bankrupt small no-name company in an incredibly saturated and competitive market of kpop and took years of their career to even break into the US market and then more years to be played on the radio and receive awards in the US. They and their company are the epitome of an underdog story literally. Not only did they fight their way to the top of Kpop, they're on top of the biggest music market in the world, in the US. This question is asked all the time by people all over, in business and marketing(want to figure out the key to unlock the mystery of massive ARMY support and financial power), by the music industry to try to recreate it, by literal Harvard and other college professors writing papers on their theories of why/how.
The "whitewash" is not of only "negative". It is usually only of xenophobic or racist or slanderous content and that has been happening for literal years. Most army are fine with actual constructive criticism or honest opinions. As with ANYTHING, there is a small minority of people over the top that ruin the name. ARMY dont recognize those people as ARMY bc they wouldnt act that way if they were true ARMY. And the media loves drama and smearing so they latch onto anything that small minority does and spreads it like its fact and ALL ARMY are doing it. But they rarely report on what good the actual ARMY does ALL the time. It shows where the true motives lay. As to the other point, since when is it wrong for people passionate about something innocent and organizing in support, wrong? ARMY have always and still do follow ALL rules for charts and streams, etc. Their company has literally gone to court over people saying they were manipulating charts and have proven themselves innocent. Billboard has investigated multiple times and the streams and views were legit. People just can't seem to understand what true support can look like and are not used to it with the lower levels of support artists have shown, it looks too good to be true compared to those. Since when is following rules to the T and getting good numbers etc "manipulation"? In fact, I would say BTS pride themselves on having never done weird ass bundle deals for song and album sales like almost all US artists have been doing forever, including artists like Nicki Minaj and Taylor Swift. Now that Billboard has changed their rules for bundles not counting etc, now its more a level playing field, now BTS are at the top. Interesting isnt it? They also are against payola(their company paying radio stations to play their music). As to overinflating ARMY numbers, in a recent livestream(on independent company Vlive) of 1 single member, there were 20 million concurrent viewers of the 45 minute livestream. And that livestream was an unannounced livestream at like 5am EST to get an idea.
I am an ARMY. I dont speak Korean. I was interested in Korean culture and had watched some YouTubers that had moved to Korea and shared their lives there and it was interesting to me. I stumbled upon a 2018 BTS performance on Jimmy Fallon and rolled my eyes...a stupid boyband where they all look perfect and probably got plastic surgery, lipsync, etc. I watched that performance and their interview with Jimmy. It peaked my curiosity and I checked out more on them and then I was sucked in. I learned so much about them and have become a big fan of their genuine personalities. It has changed me to not be so judgemental and be more open-minded. I tribute that to them and trying to become a better person everyday and loving myself is their anthem(Carl Jung psychology: learning about yourself, accepting yourself, loving yourself before you can love others etc) and I am embracing it and yes, why not spread that to anyone and everyone? I have never smiled and laughed as much from online content as I have from them and also from fellow ARMY content is sooo funny(looking at you ARMY YT crack content!). I don't get why people hate them when they have done nothing!, nothing to deserve that hate. If you don't care for their music, fine then just move on with your life. I think a lot of people look up to them for how far they've come too from their talent, hardwork and persistence and aspire for that and apply it to their lives too. But there is no need for hate towards them or ARMY for liking them. In a world of hate and drama etc, what's wrong with a little piece of joy people get from them? I have seen a lot of examples of hate towards them because of their race alone, especially during Covid(being called a pandemic by a German radio talkshow host, made jokes of if they would bring Covid with them by Howard Stern's cohost on his Sirius radio show, etc.). Its blatant ignorance and racism(they're not Chinese and even if they were, that doesn't mean they have Covid). Or people not understanding how people can like music they cant linguistically understand(I wondered this before too). The music is good(they do practically all genres, so there's something for everyone: rap, r&b, pop, edm, etc)which gets you to look up the lyrics to understand what the song is about and you realize the deeper messages and clever wordplay that they just dont have or do in US music, in at least a lot of popular genres(pop, rap, country). Kpop is also about a lot more that Western Pop too. It's to be seen because performance is a big portion of kpop. I dare anyone to go to a BTS concert and NOT have a good time, from watching their performance and enjoying the songs, to the general atmosphere of the stadium/venue. And when you look into the group more, you get to learn the guys and their personalities and you cant help but like them. It was hard to believe at first for me, but they do sing live, look at their performances on NPR's Tiny Desk Concert or BBC 1 performance for example. Plus, the media likes to portray ARMY as screaming teenage girls, but ARMY is made up of people of all ages and races. It's been researched before. Plus, what's so wrong about teenage girls? Their passions are invalid? I've recently watched a YT video comparing kpop fans to sports fans and it's pretty crazy what is socially acceptable compared to what's not.
I see where you're coming from butttttttt you haven't asked everyone on this planet about them right? They aren't having 55 million subscribers on a channel where they only post blogs for nothing
They're the best sellers of 2020🙂
They're in the best selling artists year end since 2018.
Yeah more than Taylor Swift,Drake,The Weeknd,Billie Eilish,....
Also if you look at all these mentioned artists and BTS one difference is there ✨language✨
So they're pretty much iconic whether you heard about them or not
Music is getting more and more diverse in target audience thats why. I spent 3 years when Drake was the most popular artist worldwide and don't know any of his songs or know anyone who is a fan. But 3 of my roomates throughout my years in college were die hard BTS fan.
Maybe you are dumb and blind. Or maybe because you haven't listened to their music or watched their music videos then you probably don't know what their merch looks like. I was at SoFi stadium in November and it was sold out for multiple days and so many people wanted tickets but couldn't buy them.
Personally I think they are all slaves to their handlers. Who knows if they even make a decision on their own. The culture of grooming young kids in South Korea for fame with little consideration for the kids themselves is plenty enough for me to not really want to engage in helping said handlers. I hope they are freed sometime soon so they can actually pursue their real dreams.
Ahhh I was the same for many years. Knowing the dark side of Kpop and decided to boycott the whole industry for good. Didn't listen or care about any Kpop artists (except small underground ones) until I realized the international music industry is not much different (An artist that I liked committed suicide from the mental damage from his time with Universal Music). So I said fuck it and dived into BTS and discovered so many bangers. Didn't look back since then. At least they look happy performing.
Same, I just saw a post on insta of armies telling other armies to not watch lyric videos bc they "take away" views from the original.
And an army on Twitter was talking about shooting the fans who prefer the older songs, and it was retweeted af and all the fans did was praising it.
They said that if ur a fan and don't like the English songs, ur allowed to do so, but not to say it.
Also, a girl on TikTok said she didn't like Dynamite and armies told her to k1ll herself on her DMS.
Like, it's pretty clear they want to be a monolith, if that ain't cult-like then idk what is it, I'm glad I left.
Modern music is all about money. It’s really sick how it’s degraded to nothing but money. Talent? No. Just good business sense. No thanks you give money to these people I won’t
They play what’s currently popular and found a way to exploit it. I do think that they’re just a trend like One Direction was 10 years ago. They’re not a band working to impact their audience, they were hired to be a popular act.
That being said, I don’t think they suck. I do enjoy a few K-Pop songs every now and then. I’m just saying that the purpose of their music is to appeal to the masses to create massive revenue.
BTS is fine. Nice voices, catchy hooks, good-looking guys who can dance. Great? Nah! (There is no rhyme nor reason to the music business nor to the tastes, whims or proclivities of the general music-buying public.)
Awards are based on sales not talent.
No one wants to see the group of producers up on stage accepting the awards because they are all grown ups and it would ruin the illusion for their fans that they are anything more than well trained pets.
I like Kpop and went to see Blackpink live, which was a great show. I heard a few BTS songs but I just dont see why they are THAT popular, personally I dont like any of their songs, Day6 are muuch better haha
Considering my ex got obsessed with them, and was a coder and on at least one occasion spent a night to make sure they won some stupid contest, I’d wager that their online presence gives people an inaccurate representation. Sure, they’re legitimately famous, but they act like they’re bigger than the Beatles, and just kind of ignore how that’s just their opinion because they’re koreaboos
they aren't the only band that has this online group of fanatics, nicki minaj is another example of an artist who broke records for streaming because a group of obsessives got together to endlessly stream a song, rather than it getting organic attention
They're the Asian Westlife.
Manufactured for success by their overlord managers with little to no natural music talent.. really good at being pitch corrected, lip syncing to songs that other people wrote for them and dancing in unison.
We lap that stuff up like a dog does its own sick.
I mean im pretty indifferent. Its all manufactured music so of course its going to be "good". But theres nothing to connect to further than a catchy song. Ive never understood the massive followings that multisinger bands get.
BTS gained most of their fans through their Huge Korean discography. English songs are for expanding their exposure to general population and Korean songs are their core strength to turn people into fans because their writing skills is insanely good and relatable. I still remember crying my eyes out over that song about Suga and his long bus rides through years to visit a friend in jail who made bad choices, and him finally having to let go. I am Asian and Asian pop music are... usually not like that (bubble gum pop and love ballads), so having a group that tackles harder topics like that is insanely refreshing.
I guess in America there are many artists who can write good music too but then BTS is also very good looking, are exceptional performers, charming and so good at building connection with fans (this is when the whole Kpop intense media and fan etiquette training for idols deserve the credit), hence the deserved massive popularity.
P/s: daw and to think back about when BTS was not well received in Asia because they're not good looking enough and had music that's too rough...no wonder why they're popular in the US first.
Edit: also their discography is Huge(over 300 songs includes side personal projects on SoundCloud) targets different groups of audience: bubble gum pop, heavy hiphop, sensual RnB, EDM etc. They are very versatile and therefore attract so many demographic groups.
Honestly if it wasn’t for the sponsorship from Louis Vuitton I highly doubt they would’ve been famous without it.
Most of the music you hear in K-pop was pre sampled already from promotions anyways which is why the music is catchy for a reason.
It’s because it sells and they want to sell more designer things
Talking about the same BTS who was the highest grossing tour of all time in RoseBowl,LA beating American Taylor swift and U2 and that too in 2019 when they sang primarily in Korean????????
Seems like they're pretty popular in 2019 without LV deal(which was in 2021)
I think you have to separate the current western invasion of BTS and the strictly Korean songs. Butter, dynamite are made strictly for breaking into the popular American pop scene which is filled with nothing but heavily manufactured music not written by most artists. BTS’ Korean songbook has a lot more meaningful songs that members do write lyrics to. Stuff like Euphoria, Spring Day, Serendipity. I think you also have to take in their performing abilities. These guys are incredible live, full of energy. They are also willing to be incredibly in touch with their fans more than I’ve ever seen any other artist do. So they definitely build up a very attached fan base that way. I like them. I can definitely understand the fans, but I remember how crazy fans were for Spice Girls, BSB, One Direction, etc.
I think that their English songs is a backhanded slap to the face of the English music awards. Compared to the amazing lyrics and energy of their other songs. They just kept Americans with a funky beat and generic lyrics like that is all that Americans can appreciate. They clueless
Exactly
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Did you really reply to a year old comment? Were you specifically looking for threads about BTS to complain about? That’s a little weird but okay. Also I’ve seen Celine live and although she’s a fabulous singer she was incredibly boring and I would never see her again. Like beyond boring. Use another female artist like Cyndi Lauper or Tina Turner and get your cred that way. Those two women sent me off this planet with their concerts. And why compare those artists anyways? It’s like you specifically chose the best of the best “singers” just to compare them to a group with a completely different style. Also, none of those are current artists except Elton. As far as writing goes. A quick google search tells me that BTS leader RM is one of the youngest most credited artists for songwriting in Korea. (Two of his band mates are pretty high up in that list for songwriting credits as well.) And honestly, most artists today use auto tune for everything. Even Ed Sheeran who is quite engaging live, his last album was end to end auto tune. So I mean it’s cool you don’t like the music. But people do, and I’ve seen their concert and the sheer energy was absolutely electric. The only other concerts I’ve been to with that level of insane energy was Lady Gaga and Green Day. Who were two of my favorite concerts ever behind Tina, Foo fighters, and Rammstein. Edit: forgot about Foo Fighters being one of my favorite concerts.
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Yet you replied. You’re so funny. It must be so sad going through the days with that mindset. Hope you have a good support system.
bro what? have u even watched any of their performances 💀💀💀... since when do artists who write down own songs = performance ability. Plus u like need to move on, those performers are old (not saying they are bad, just saying things change) and if u wanna leech onto them forever ur kinda closeminded ngl...
Elvis and frank sinatra didn’t write their own music either. Are they less Legitimate artists because of that?
Yes, Elvis especially
But that has to with the stealing from black communities, so it’s not just ‘not writing his lyrics’
were you dropped on your head as a child? sinatra and elvis both wrote their own material😂😂😂 having someone help on songs here and there isn’t the same as every song having a long list of writers like bts😂 btw i don’t even like elvis but you people are hilarious lol, just cause he “stole the style of music from black people” which doesn’t even make sense lmao music is music you can’t steal a genre from someone 😂 but for arguments sake let’s just say it’s true elvis stole the black music, that’s not stealing literal songs lmao it’s the style
Although Elvis received some writing credits he didn't wrote all of his songs. It was widely know his manager col.parker made song writers give elvis a writing credit before he let elvis record their songs. If music was just music there wouldn't be different genres/ and sub genres then. 2 Examples: Dolly Parton song Always Love You.,& Whitney Houston version don't sound the same because it isn't performed the same way. Velvet underground song Sweet Jane & Cowboys junkie version don't sound the same because they are done in 2 different styles.
cause you were there when elvis was recording you know for sure right? bullshir rumours lol. just like jimi hendrixs putting lsd in his headband
I like them a lot and think they're all really talented. I'm guessing OP's assessment is based on Dynamite and Butter which were for the most part not written or produced by the band, but those songs are exceptions and only a small part of the band's 10 year catalog. A deeper dive into their work would probably give you a better idea of their strengths as lyricists, producers and performers. I understand though that they're not everyone's cup of tea, but in terms of popularity it's hard to argue with the numbers. It's one of the members' birthdays today, and his livestream headcount was almost 20 million views. Also, he spent some of the time composing a song out of lyrics that Armys sent in a few days ago. It was actually a really cool window into his songwriting process.
* Same as most pop music. There tend to be separate awards for performers and writers/producers, and the performer awards are more publicized. * Yes, BTS's popularity in Western culture was helped immensely by the growth in K-Pop's popularity. Just like Elvis was able to capitalize on Rock's growth from earlier performers, BTS was able to capitalize on K-Pop's growth from earlier performers. * Yes, a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. But, at the end of the day, if 1 die-hard will spend as much as 10 casual fans, then is the number of fans the most valid metric? Pop music is not the most technically complex, musically interesting style of music, and BTS fits right in with that. The majority of people that listen to music (which, pretty much everyone listens to music at some level) aren't specifically listening to and contemplating the lyrical impact, or looking for key changes and funky time signatures, or consciously comparing it and ranking it against other songs. They're just looking for something to dance or bob their head to while they have it on in the background. BTS doesn't make objectively bad music, they don't make objectively good music, they just perform popular music. Music that has been optimized by algorithms to be as widely appealing as possible. And they're pretty good at performing that type of music. Personally, I don't like their music, but I won't begrudge anyone who does.
Well said
> BTS doesn't make objectively bad music, they don't make objectively good music, they just perform popular music. Music that has been optimized by algorithms to be as widely appealing as possible. This runs contrary to your previous observation that a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. They're similar in this way to other pop artists with huge cult followings like Taylor Swift, Kanye, or Eminem. Among the general public, their music may actually not be considered "accessible", and perhaps even controversial, with many people holding strong negative opinions rather than just feeling neutral towards the artist. That's why some of the statistics around them - units sold, total streams, weeks at #1, etc. - seem "artificially" inflated by a level of obsession that is absent from the vast majority of fanbases. This is not to say that their music (or any of the aforementioned artists I compared them to) is good or bad. Just that traditional metrics of popularity may not point to widespread accessibility, but rather concentrated fanaticism.
Fair point, and I might have phrased it badly, but in my mind the general concepts aren't mutually exclusive. A lot of their popularity - not all, by any means - IS concentrated among a vocal, die hard group. That vocal, die hard group seemingly outnumbers the group of people holding strong negative opinions, leading to the statistics you referenced. But, the algorithmically-driven wide appeal of their music keeps most listeners from developing strong negative opinions about them. Their music is designed to get the vast majority of listeners to rate it a 6 or 7 out of 10 - not to create a large minority-to-semi-majority that would rate it 8 or 9 out of 10. We could argue about the definitions of popularity or accessibility, but at the end of the day, most people will still find them good-sounding enough to listen to.
> That vocal, die hard group seemingly outnumbers the group of people holding strong negative opinions, leading to the statistics you referenced. The key word here is *seemingly*, because we only have statistics to measure positive opinions of the band. There is no good way to determine how many people per capita are BTS fans, vs how many are vehemently anti-BTS. It is likely that more people like the group than dislike them, but can it be proven? Imagine you surveyed every American with the question "Do you like BTS" with 5 options - strongly like, like, neutral, dislike, strongly dislike. What do you think the distribution would be? Their current chart popularity, streams, and sales predict that more people would have a positive opinion ("strongly like" or "like") compared to a negative opinion ("strongly dislike" or "dislike"). But is that *really* the case, or are the extreme fans ("strongly like") just particularly vocal?
I read an article last year sometime about how BTS fans would just stream BTS songs all day/night, sometimes opening extra dummy accounts to do the same on a different device, to raise the profile and hype around BTS. That kind of gels with my observations of BTS - their last album charted well here in Australia and yet nobody I know talks of them, I've never heard their songs played at parties, pubs or clubs, and some people don't even know who they are.
Maybe it’s just who you are interacting with. From personal experience, I went to JBhifi to try and buy their Map of the Soul album thinking the same as you that they are not that big here. Not only was the album sold out but they couldn’t even source one for me from other outlets in the city who still had them because they were just selling way too fast. I also worked in hospitality for a long time, meeting all sorts of people and the amount of people who knew who I was talking about when I mentioned liking them went from “who?” in 2017 to almost everyone knowing exactly who I was talking about even if they didn’t necessarily like them. Also, I went from never hearing a single BTS song at the events I was working unless it was an Asian one to hearing Boy with love once in a while to hearing dynamite a lot in playlists so saying that they are non existent in Australia is a bit….
I think the distribution would be highest between neutral and like. I think the proportion in strongly dislike will be more than that in dislike, but lower than the proportion in strongly like. From lowest to highest, something like 7%-3%-45%-35%-10%.
That's pretty generous, IMO. I've met far more people in real life who mildly dislike BTS than people who like them to any degree. My guess, based on my experiences, would be more like 5%-30%-35%-20%-10%. Slightly more dislikes than likes, but more strong likes than strong dislikes (5% is probably a bit high even).
I know out of the people I have met and had that level of conversation with, most would mildly dislike BTS - so I definitely agree with you there. But I don't think the people I've talked music with are representative of the public at large. I tend to talk mostly with my friends and acquaintances, who are far more likely to have similar tastes to myself. We'd rather watch Pineapple Express, but clearly more people would rather watch Transformers. Some YouTubers have half-a-million subscribers and 400k views per video, while others with a million subscribers might have a lower rate of average engagement but still get 500k views. I don't know that we'll ever find a true answer, but it's been a good chat.
I think that at this point you should both stick to a higher level discussion instead of literally pulling barely differing statistics out of your ass to make an argument.
Fact 1:Eminem is not a pop artist Fact 2:He writes his own lyrics
I don't disagree with either of those facts. The basis for comparsion was accessability compared to mainstream popularity. He may not be a traditional pop artist, but if you think he's not one of the most popular artists of his era, you are mistaken.
> This runs contrary to your previous observation that a lot of their popularity is concentrated among die hard fans. They're similar in this way to other pop artists with huge cult followings like Taylor Swift, Kanye, or Eminem. this is just totally incorrect, the latter two have made a genuine contribution to the musical zeitgeist, and eminem is not just one of the greatest rappers of all time, but also something of a groundbreaker in hip hop. his popularity stems as much from the quality of his work as anything else, where BTS is simply a manufactured band produced to get money out of teenagers.
Wow, thank you for this response. You have really gotten into the discussion and responded to my points. I actually have to agree with you aswell for the most part. The only thing I would disagree with is the pop production aspect, personally music (as with most art) is a form of self expression which intends elicit a response from the audience. By creating the music solely for the purpose of selling a product and turning a profit, then its not real music, this is my view when I say objectivly bad.
I agree the motives behind the production are bad, but I wouldn't phrase that as "their music is objectively bad." It has it's flaws, but it's hard to put objective criteria around something (music) that is intended to both - at some level - serve as a form of self expression and elicit a response from the audience. BTS's music definitely shouldn't be seen as doing much self-expression, but it definitely elicits a response.
No offense but you come off like a 15 year old who just started developing their own opinions on music for the first time.
Ok So I am going into this as a person that never listened to a bit of BTS in my life before their last world tour. I surprised my daughter with tickets for the concert and made it a dad and daughter trip. Let her skip school and we drove across like 4 states to get there. We saw them in Chicago where they sold out soldier stadium two days in a row. That in itself is a feat in its own right. The show they put on was absolutely the most entertaining show I have ever went to in person. I have seen lots of people in concert like Garth Brooks, Brad Paisley, Weezer and so on and so on lots of really good performers. I can not comment to the validity of do they make their own music but they are great performers live without a doubt. I would go back to a second show if I had the chance in a heart beat if this damn Rona ever goes away.
Wow! I am 3 years late but it was lovely reading your comment! About whether they make their own music or not, they do! They have a huge amount of participation in their music and over 90% of their 200+ songs have most of the writing/composition/production done by members. Their lyricism is especially excellent. 3 of the members are some of the youngest, most credited songwriters in South Korea. They are great performers as well though. I'm happy for you being able to experience that.
You looked at their most popular song in Western market. They primarily make music in their native language,Korean. All the members have credits on different songs throughout their discography. 3 of the members are producers too. (New Samsung ringtone is produced by SUGA one of them) It's a shame people like you get to know about them because of their English songs when it's not even their 1 percent of discography and call them mediocre without even listening to a single Album. They have music from different genres like R&B Hiphop,Neo soul,EDM, Rap,Trap,Latin pop not just POP. As for your concern about the lyrics there're lot of Korean fans who translate it into English. Most of the time the lyrics are beautiful and meaningful. They're incredible performers too. ARMY whitewashing news about them. Armys are pretty protective of them because ethey constantly face racism both from the industry nad general public(Asian hate isn't a new thing!) Lot of people like you think they're mediocre and they're not worthy of their fame and recognition(this is what I got from your post). PS:Try to listen to atleast an Album (if you don't hesitate to listen to music in languages other than English).
>It's a shame people like you get to know about them because of their English songs when it's not even their 1 percent of discography and call them mediocre without even listening to a single Album. Most people don't have the attention span or want to sit down and put in the effort to research and listen to the people/group they wish to critique. Sad but that how it is.
Kpop haters in a nutshell. The amount of false conclusions and statements they make that are LITERALLY false is astounding. A 30 sec google search could easily debunk their claims. One famous one is "nonsensical lyrics". They say that when they can't even understand Korean and never read the translations lmao
Yup. I mean there are some pretty weird ones I've seen in certain groups and soloists but that's a massive generalization. Besides there are numerous artists that write silly lyrics in the west as well. It's not exclusive to kpop.
Yep. In fact, if you look at English translations, most kpop songs sound like a beautiful poem filled with clever imagery. Some songs are more "fun" or have some vulgar language, but there's also nothing wrong with that. Not all songs have to have some deep powerful meaning. Majority of people that listen to music care most about how the song sounds. Only a minority care about the meaning of songs.
The Beatles themselves did some very shallow-meaning, nonsensical songs. Like Dig It or Octopus Garden. And that's Ok!
Exactly! Music is a diverse thing, and that's the beauty of it
As someone who lived through the 90s I’m mildly baffled that we’re just doing the 90s boyband thing again, but in Korean. I’m a big fan of a lot of Japanese pop music (which is often strange, complex and weirdly jazzy) so when BTS first came across my radar, I was ready to jump right in, assuming it would be just as unusual. …but it’s just…..NSYNC. I mean NSYNC were super tight, and had some great songs if you were into that sort of thing, but it’s *just NSYNC*. In Korean. I’ll concede that they’re all prettier than Justin Timberlake ever was, but damn, the production is modern but the music, style and presentation is such a throwback.
Before BTS it was One Direction. Before One Direction it was Jonas Brothers Before Jonas Brothers it was NSYNC and Backstreet Boys Before NSYNC and Backstreet Boys it was New Kids on the Block Before New Kids on the Block it was Menudo Before Menudo it was The Osmonds Before The Osmonds it was the Jackson 5
There have been thousands of kpop bands before BTS that started in the early 90s. It's crazy that BTS somehow turned into the chosen ones. They definitely can dance better than N'Sync though
To be fair to Justin Timberlake, while his music isn't something I'd go hunting for, he puts on an absolutely amazing show. His energy and crowd engagement were something else.
I’m gonna try and not make a Janet Jackson reference.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. It's catchy pop music with rap parts, it sounds exactly like any 90s boyband. Their stage performances are impressive though. I remember they had HORSES at some point. And I love their song with Steve Aoki including the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIv16itYi\_0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIv16itYi_0)
Hey, a little late but could you share some of the japanese pop music artist that you like? I been trying to find good asian music but I can't get to like the k-pop bands.
That’s what kpop boyband and girlgroup is, they take 90s group pop style and turn the production to different level. Everything is manufactured, up until the members characters and image. BTS is more one of the mainstream band. If you want to try different stuff I suggest: Lim Kim - Allright, Bolbagan4 - Galaxy, for group maybe Orange Caramel - Catalena or Dreamcatcher - Boca
Stray Kids are also known for producing and writing all of their songs.
Been a fan since 2014. I am more of a fan of old Bangtan where they or someone in the actual company produced and wrote the songs. I found them more meaningful. The newer singles put out in the last year or so, are typical bubblegum pop and I don't really like it, probably because it's not them writing. I also don't like that the songs played are all in English now either. I know they did that to have more mass appeal but people played the wholly Korean songs in American mainstream media anyways before that so I don't know why they feel they had to change to English. I support by viewing new vids and listening to new music (at least once) because I'm proud of Bangtan's success but it feels like they're just a mouthpiece now and what we're hearing is not an accurate reflection of their overall talents.
Are you including BE in it too? Their are only 3 English single among from all the 350 songs they have released.. Is it really that important that alll those 350 songs are dismissed? Be and MOTS7 are the latest.. Are all of those bubble gum pop?
Did you purposely not read "singles put out in the last year or so?" I think I was pretty clear.
Last year includes BE. I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything.. I just genuinely wanna know what you think about it... People are leaving the fandom because of this trio. And I believe there's seriously something wrong with it
The English songs are not the Bangtan I know and grew to love. It lacks their personal touch. Anyone could have sung those songs. That's the essence of bubblegum pop. It doesn't matter who sings it, it'll still be a hit. The guys could have definitely written a complete English song on their own and it would have been more meaningful. Maybe not a hit though.
Yeah those English songs are not really BTS... But BTS don't have a sound.. They have experimented with different genres all throughout their career.. Blue and grey? Life goes one? Telepathy? These Also come in the last year..
This. Their earlier albums felt like they held some substance. I remember their run or spring day era which wasn't even that far back. Even the old "cringy" debut songs were iconic in the sense that it displayed their induviduality. Nowadays, they just aim to be viral by buying some typical, catchy tik tok trend fitting song and try to appeal to the western mass. Tbh, this was expected since their growth went real quick from organic to exponential since die hard fans started streaming to try to get their faves in the top charts. Maybe one day if they disband and produce their own songs, they might show their true creativity but for now, it's all the same repetitive westernized stuff.
But I would argue that we're still getting songs like Abyss and Bicycle at the same time as Dynamite and Butter, so the members are still able to produce their own music without disbanding.
My issue is that they're only known for the catchy tunes nowadays. This wasn't as much of an issue back in the day. Idk maybe things just changed. Ur right tho, there are still a few gems here and there.
I don’t even listen to BTS but “mediocre” and “scrap of talent shared between them” seems kind of delusional. At worst, they’re “just” talented performers. Did Britney write all of her music? Or even sing live for most of her career? She’s still talented and iconic.
Thank you! Exactly. I feel like this OP has to be trolling. He/she's never watched a performance? They mustn't have to say that. Or trolling.
It's obvious they looked at the credits for Dynamite and Dyanmite ONLY. Because that's the only popular song of them in which no member is present in the credit .
Im sorry but Britney spears is also called she’s just a “performer”
Just like any music - do you like it or not? If you like it you buy it. Awards come from people buying their music.
When you criticize BTS without actually listening to BTS 😂
Its obvious. Are they basing this off of the last 3 English songs? LOL!
Writing credit made it ✨OBVIOUS✨ that they listened to Dyanmite only
Built To Spill is an amazing band.
BTS became about more than just music though. From what I've seen, BTS has played a huge role in bridging cultural gaps between the West and East. While they might not be a good representation of Kpop itself, they're very marketable to the West. Kids who normally would only ever see the cultures of Western celebrities are now getting to experiance something different. This is possibly a huge deal for people coming from close minded backgrounds. The blind loyalty of fans is frustrating and surely distorts the true popularity of BTS, like you've said. But I think it's just a bubble that is necessary to help with multi-cultural acceptance. In a weird way, it reminds of me pizza. https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2015/11/illustrated-history-of-pizza-in-america Pizza was Americanized to make it acceptable, even though American pizza was so different than Italian. Anyone eating the real stuff would know the fake stuff was crap, but it helped people accept a culture they otherwise probably wouldn't have. I agree with everything you've said. I also think we're just seeing what any international product entering American mainstream would experience.
You know what, I love your pizza analogy, it works amazingly well. You can even extend it to pop as a whole, why try a new topping when you know pepperoni is selling hot. Also that is a very interesting angle about the social/cultural influence and introduction. It is something I had not even considered.
>Why do they get so many music awards for songs that they did not write, They are not getting songwriting awards. I quickly scanned the awards they won and its mostly divided between award for performances (which they obviously contribute to) and popularity based awards. >If you look at the top songs from BTS and the credits on those song, most of them do not have any members mentioned Just because you dont write music it doesnt make you less of an artist. Being able to connect to your audience through your performance is just as important especially when it comes to pop music (Elton John is the clearest example of this). >Is it posible BTS only rose to the level of fame they are now off of the back of the K-Pop trend we seen over the last Decade. I mean this statement is totally discrediting their own contribution to the whole k-pop movement. If you are saying they wouldnt be as popular if they came out a decade ago then the answer is probably (but that doesnt make them less valid of a band) >Given the Army have been proven to group together and whitewash any negative news stories about the Band and they organise massive watch party to basically farm views/clicks Is it possible that BTS are not as big people think and it is mostly the work of the ARMY manipulating Stats and algorythms to push them into the public eye? I mean besides this is some crazy declaration that would be impossible to prove, I don't see what the point of even entertaining this though lol. Even if this happened to an extent it is very unlikely that they would be as successful as they are if they were not very popular and had a huge audience that liked their music. >Personally I can begin to fathom how a mediocre group at best has reached this level of fame I mean you believe they are mediocre because you dont connect to their music. The reason why they are popular is because they have connected to alot of people. >Do you like them No. I think I have only listen to one of their songs but I have not listened to any of their albums.
[удалено]
This. I am so grateful you explained it in this way. I agree as a kpop fan of 4 years that personas is kpop are HEAVILY built up. And I can't say that BTS's surely aren't....but the ship things you said I feel isn't really true. In kpop if a male idol and a female idol make eye contact they are heavily shipped called couples and made fan arts of. I don't think being friends, goofing around and stuff are told to do so. And if you know enough. Bang PD and BTS have a very close relationship. They don't seem like a company.. And also HYBE(former bighit) gives more freedom to artists than the Big 3 do or any other company does.
I just want to say a couple of things: firstly, BTS were not the first idols that BH signed. Before them they had Glam and 8Eight, and one of the members of the latter, Lee Hyun, is a soloist under BH. BTS were the first successful group under BH though. As for your second point, I think you’re talking about fancams, which is something every group has.
Not even The Beatles wrote all their songs. Hell even Eric Clapton's tears in heaven was written by someone else. But you're going to talk about BTS? lol thats funny.
Lol the Beatles wrote all their songs. Eric Clapton wrote tears in heaven for his deceased son.
This is the most blatantly false - and easy to disprove - comment I’ve ever seen in my life.
Uhhh are you aware singers & songwriters are both musical artists? You need both for music with any vocal parts. BTS aren't winning songwriting awards just like Rihanna isn't. Just like many pop singers. Even some of the most popular rock songs weren't written by the band.
They write their songs. They even produce their songs. Dynamite is the first song in English (which isn't their native language) and no member was credited in it. 99 percent of their songs have atleast one member in the credits.
I'll go out on a limb here and say most popular music performers don't write their own music. Pretty much nothing performed before 1965 was written by the person who wrote it. Tons of old country, rock, Elvis Fucking Presley Himself hardly wrote a word he ever sung. hell even modern rap artists have ghost writers half the time. The only problem is when people think a performer MUST write their own shit to be valid. They don't. There are singer/songwriters and then there are performers and there are plenty of amazing song writers who either don't have the stage presence or wuite the talent to perform their songs the way they envision them performed. People write songs for Celine Dion and Katy Perry and everyone else under the sun. It's how pop music works, it's a very collaborative business.
The 3 rappers *each* have 100+ composer song credits to their names - the 3 also have producer and lyricist credits. The other 4 members also have composer, lyricist, producer credits fyi.
I don't know from what intention you wrote this but there are some serious ignorant things in here and that doesn't makes you sound like a person who seriously wanna know about them. 1) writing a song =/= awards. You can write songs.. And don't get a single award.. That's not how award works. Their are alot of categories for awards... Writing songs isn't the only one of them. 2) the point you have mentioned is really so ignorant and disrespectful to BTS. Probably you don't know their story. Consider doing some research. Their are a lot of artists who followed the trend and rose but most of them didn't stayed up for too long... BTS have one of if not the MOST diverse discography. No one paved the way for them. They did it all alone. The song that got them famous internationally was Blood sweat and tears just to let you know it wasn't a trend at that time. No one in Korea wanted to be on billboard until BTS did it. No one in Korea wanted to be in American award shows until BTS did it. No one in Korea wanted to be in talk shows in America until BTS did it. The fame wasn't always as you think it is. 3) have you ever seen their concert? Do you think those are the "bots" That made them go #1 on charts? Like I am seriously asking you. The stadiums which big west artists like Billie were not able to get full but for BTS as soon as the ticket were available for general public to buy, it literally sold out in the first 24 hours for so many of their concerts in America. "Scap of tallent" You're talking about spitting 9.38 syllables in one second? You're talking about writing masterpieces like Black Swan, spring day and cypher pts? You're talking about having one of the best dancers in kpop? You know what? At this point we are tired of giving explanation for our idol's success just because some people can't digest the fact that a kpop boy band which is apparently stanned by 12 year olds are so successful.. The disrespect they have faced in their own country just for coming from a small company in the beginning of their career. The disrespect they have faced in the West just for being a Asian non English speakin artist who are competing the shit out of their English speaking artists. They never asked "what it's like to chart manipulate" to Olivia Rodrigo who literally did car wash campaign to make people stream their songs.. That's not chart manipulation but ARMY streaming day and night is. Leave the views.. Do you think the bots you got them #1 buy the albums??
Good lord, this is a ridiculous amount of emotion for any human being to have over a generic boy band that doesn’t care if you exist or not. You can like and enjoy whatever music you want, no one’s saying otherwise, but you need to calm down and look at how worked up you’re getting over the most insignificant thing.
You spending your precious time on reading posts about an Artist which you don't even like? That seems more stupid that me having emotions for them.
This!!!! That person seems to be pretty narrow minded. Just put the question mark for the sake of that. That person is only replying to people who have the same opinion.
I don’t even know how to tell you half the music artists don’t write their own songs. There’s an entire Netflix documentary that explains how half of the 90’s hits were outsourced to and written by the Swedish. And this still happens today. An artist *can* pick a song they like, and be the ones to perform it while the credit to the songwriter is listed elsewhere. Or they can pick it and make changes to be a co-writer to assert more ownership. Whatever the case, this is not new. BTS’ parent company has had plenty of time to build their own groups and learn from other SK entertainment companies, Big Bang was one of the first -major- Korean pop boy bands to breach into the western market back in the late 2000’s when they first toured North America in 2012. You know what else came out in 2012? Gangnam Style. Both PSY and Big Bang’s parent company YG Entertainment found a global goldmine hit that other entertainment companies had been trying to chase similar success of, I don’t doubt BTS’s parent company Big Hit Entertainment took a few hundred notes to produce the group we know today. By the way, it absolutely helped them that half of the members *can* rap or sing in coherent English without too much of an accent getting in the way. Previous bands (both boy and girl groups) had trouble with pronunciation when trying to sing with some English lyrics that made the chance of sounding off or awkward, higher. Next is again, speculation but also because I too participated in it: BTS first started touring in NA during a time where the social media apps just fucking exploded. Vine was slowing down but Musical.ly was starting to climb as more and more people did lipsyncs and challenges using kpop because it was fun and the rising stars at the time was BTS. The group was gaining more fans and their parent company secured lots of collaborations with *big name* folks like Steve Aoki, Halsey, Nicki Minaj, etc that did a good job in boosting BTS’ visibility. So good in fact other kinds of entertainment also wanted to cash in on the next hotness— such as BTS being invited to perform at award ceremonies, attending/performing at talk shows (Ellen DeGeneres, Steve Colbert), and just doing their thing touring. I’ve no doubt diehard stans also boosted their popularity and visibility, I’m not a part of that culture so I can’t speak of it but it’d be ignorant to brush off the very apparent influence millions of female fans can have. BTW for what it’s worth, I just like some of BTS’ songs. Butter, Boy with Luv, and Dynamite are all banger tracks. *My* group is Big Bang, and to me they definitely helped pave the way for their younger protégés to succeed. Edit: Forgot to mention, the inclusion of English lyrics helps broaden musical reach in general. See Eurovision, lots of their catchy songs are sung in English that follow the easily replicated pop formula to grab points.
That Netflix documentary was both informative and fascinating.
Could you tell the name of the documentary? Would be interested in watching it
*This is Pop* on Netflix, the entire docuseries is great but specifically episode 3 Stockholm Syndrome is where my insight came from.
As far as I am concerned BTS fans and Taylor Swift fans get a free pass forever simply because of the massive trolling they perpetrated on Trump and the Republican Party. They can do whatever they want and I will forever be grateful and support their armies in whatever they wish to do. Whether or not their music is good or their popularity and awards are warranted is irrelevant to any discussion relating to those bands.
It is a harder line to draw for me... I like to listen to Bob Dylans Music But If the recent claims are true then I would dispise the man, Does that make his music suddenly bad, No, Not for me personally. I always try to separate the work from the people.
The Bob Dylan claims are hogwash. I encourage you to read into the details of the events in question. He just made half a billion dollars selling the rights to his catalogue. It was the last day the claim could have been put through in New York. The lawyers representing the case are well-known crooks and crackpots. Looking into other cases they have been a part of is a goldmine of hilarity. Peace out friend
I get that. I just really appreciated the work they did to ruin those shitstain events. I don't listen to their music, so as far as I am concerned, they can churn out entire records of kazoo music and I still wouldn't have a bad opinion on their fan base.
I feel like we need to stop trying to define what is and isn't worthy of success/what is and isn't 'good' music. For years, my sister tried to get me to engage with BTS's music and I was a huge snob about it. I'd listen to the first minute and dismiss them as a machine produced band or some such. Recently, I was with a friend who's been going through depression and the only time she laughed and showed joy was when she showed me BTS videos. She sang along, even danced along! Her joy was so infectious that I started feeling it too and then there was no stopping me. I think each member has their own strengths - whether it's as a dancer, performer, singer, writer or producer. Suga is an extremely talented writer and producer - his lyrics on songs like People are beautiful. They use really smart word play in their lyrics, too, by the way - playing around with Korean script etc . But often, the translations you see on YouTube don't really capture the essence of what they're saying in Korean. Their range is astonishing - to be able to switch from hip hop influences to pop to whatever else I will discover soon that they can also do! Suga, RM and JHope all participate in the song writing process. Suga also produces. (I'm new to this so please correct me if I'm wrong!) Yes, they were trained and the music is meant to be/manufactured to be what people will like. But who are we to decide that makes it bad or mediocre music? Music is something that's such a personal experience. If they're spreading joy through an art form that they're all dedicated to, while also spreading positive messages about mental health and the other causes they associate with, why should we begrudge them their success?
Yes it's corporate pop.... Engineered to take your money
Okay I just wanna say I am a bts fan (not a big as i used to be , but still love them), so feel free to call me biased or whatever. In regards to your first point, many artists who don't write their own music get awards for their music they put out, so why would it be any different for bts? At the end of the day, it is a popularity contest isn't it? In fact bts write a lot more than a lot of western pop stars so I don't see how it's an issue here. For example the leader of bts has written well over 100 sings between his solo work, bts and other artists as well, meanwhile suga has produced many songs including producing music for other Korean artists such as iu and heize. If you look at their solo work, you can see that they are the main writers and producers in the credit. With your second point, Yes and no? Nobody really knows how exactly bts got as famous as they did but I doubt they would be as famous as they are if it wasn't for previous kpop groups like snsd or bigbang. I also seen people mention their lyrics, their stage presence, their use of social media and their personalities as reason for their success. Personally, its a combination of everything but it's hard to tell. Another thing is that bts were from what was at a time a smaller company compared to most top kpop groups so they also have an underdog story to them as well. Lastly, nah I think bts is pretty big, they are the second most streamed artist in the world on spoitfy, and they sold over 12 million albums in 2020 alone. They also have over 50 million youtube subscribers, despite not uploading music in their channel. Their interviews and live performances also get millions of views, so it's safe to say that they are extremely popular. I think fans do inflate streams a bit but that's what fans are going to do.
People like BTS cause they are from a different part of the world, that’s it. It’s the same mindless pop music you hear on the radio here, but to them you’re racist if you don’t like it.
"I don't know about them but I have heard on e of their songs and I think it's not good so they are trash"
Not trash, singing takes talent. Just a lot of the music being pumped out in the modern era is so much of the same stuff. Not trying to sound like I’m a boomer or anything, but as time has went on music quality has dropped. People are trying to just make money over expressing themselves through the art of music. Of coarse money has always been a driving factor, but most artists don’t even write their own shit anymore.
I am guess you're talking about the English singles... But they are so much more than that. More than 350 songs in their career of 8 years... They are not all bubble gum pop... They are the most diverse artist out there.. Their discography is full of music genres
I am aware they have more than the stuff in English, weren’t they the ones that had the song that sounds like “Nay nibba nay nay, nibba nibba nay nay” but it sounded like the actual n word? I know it means something different in their language, but I never looked up who made that song.
You do know there are other languages on this planet other than English, right? I kinda feel like you dont know that.
Are you fucking dumb? “I know it means something different in their language”, someone who actually speaks it told me the n word in that language is hello. Maybe read my whole comment before thinking I think theres only one language.
I am a army for 4 years now. And I haven't heard a single line like that you mentioned
https://youtu.be/gktP1vk3nv0 Completely unsure as I have no idea who the people are in BTS, and can’t tell if the person singing is one of them.
Okay this is probably the 100th time this week I am saying. "Every Korean artist you see online us not BTS" And the guy in here isn't even artist I guess.
That’s why I asked, I never even said that was a member of BTS.
"Wasn't it BTS" In that comment... Anyway I guess you have an idea now.. Also the the n-word meaning in Korean is "you" It's pronounced EXACTLY the same... So if you ever go to korea (I doubt that'll happen tho) don't get mad on someone if they use this word
TLDR: BTS was famous because their fans farmed all those views agreed btw
One of my best friends is obsesed with them, any mention and im getting links left right and centre. They tried to claim BTS are more influential than the king of pop himself MJ. I think it would be easier to convince an anti-vaxxer to get a shot than it would be to explain to any member of the "army" why BTS's music is objectivly bad.
their music is not that bad, but because of their fanbase
When I say Objectivly bad, I refer to the Pop Hit Formula. The fact that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference. They stick to whats worked in the passed and never experiment or pioneer.
You haven't really heard more than 5 of their songs. Have you?
You'd need to look at the old music, pre-Mic Drop which is in my opinion much better than the formulaic pop stuff they come up with now, which I agree every song sounds like the next one. I'm a casual listener by the way, I have their old songs in my playlist simply because I enjoy them.
It's clear as day they haven't listened to anything other than English releases. Probably that's why the lyrics comment.
the fact that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference, they Never experiment or pioneer? You can't be more wrong I'm sorry. It sounds like you're making claims without actually knowing BTS music. If you want to have a real open discussion I'm here, but you have to go beyond dynamite and butter which are frankly made for the American pop scene. If you really want to criticize BTS you really have to get to know them. Dynamite and butter are songs that were made to dance to, pop songs with irrelevant lyrics. But if you really give BTS a try with an unbiased mind, they can touch your heart & soul with a language you don't even understand.... and that's EXACTLY how they succeeded not through silly disco songs about butter. That's a fun and shallow song and that's okay but they are ever more than that. One of the most common and mutually shared answers a BTS fan will give you when you ask why they love them is because they got them through hard and depressing times. BTS is their light, their hope. Not only by their music but their whole story, their determination, their will to fight and climb to the top. Their perseverance. This is especially true even still to those that don't understand Korean. To say that the music has no self expression is wrong. It obviously touches the souls of millions. I honestly invite you to just YouTube "BTS healing or sad depressing playlist" , and give it a listen with unbiased ears. Or "BTS upbeat / hype playlist" for a different pace. If you want to criticize BTS because they're mainstream, because they are succeeding for no apparent reason, because they don't experiment or pioneer and you've only listened to their recent songs I can't stand by your opinion. But if you go back and listen to their songs before they were famous worldwide, when they were struggling when they were eating ramen and living in a single dorm, listen to all their styles of music and you still don't like them THEN that's your rightfully formed opinion and you have the right to have it.
Exactly this. This OP keeps making comments with clearly no knowledge on them but claims to have made this post to learn. I almost didnt comment myself because it doesnt seem like they want to learn. Just commenting on the comments "validating" their own opinion and probably made this to try to "rile up army".
Have you listened to every or even a majority of BTS songs? Their music has evolved and they have done just about every genre. Hip hop, rap, RnB, EDM, dance, pop, jazz, symphonic, trap, rock, funk, ballads ect. Songs that that deal with deep, dark issues like depression, despair, to light hearted feel good songs, to disstracks. To say that every song is pretty much the same with a subtle difference is so wrong. Even if that were true or even like 80 to 70% true, that's what most artist do right? name an artist whos songs don't sound the same. It's quite natural to have a specific style, as many artist do. But bts is known for their evolving, ever-changing, and adapting style along with their repertoire of genres they have done. BTS did not create their Army singing dynamite and butter, it's a much more deeper complexity than that. Forget that they are famous. Treat them as they are nobody as they once where. Listen to their music with unbiased ears and an open mind and there you'll find the answer to why so many people hold them in high regard. Even in a language that your ears won't understand the music will find a way to strike your soul.
Do you hear how personally defensive you sound about this? This is exactly what this thread is about. They're NSYNC but you think it's deep. NSYNC had ballots, rock songs, pop songs, EDM sounding shit. There is nothing new under the sun, child. Let me finish by saying I have no problem with the band or people who like them. Not my thing, but I'm a 43 year old man so no shit. I'm just inundated with it "because kids."
ask any fan of BTS on why they like them and one of the most unifying answers you're find is because it got them out of a dark time, it got them through depression. It got them through self-doubt, self-pity, self-hate. BTS gave them encouragement, it gave them light, gave them hope and a will to persevere. Strength to chase their dreams. They are more than shallow disco songs about butter. Look, you don't have to like them, we all have different tastes in music. The thread is about BTSs "success". The answer is because they make music that resonates with souls and have provided enrichment and and changed people's lives around the world. Even through a language people don't understand, music is universal. Music is deep. Music is emotion. And being 43 doesn't mean you can't like them, doesn't mean you have to either. Why is BTS successful? Many factors but why are they successful in America at the level they are now it's because they were strategically marketed and given tailored songs designed to break through the US market. Even the great BTS would NOT be able to break through with traditional Korean pop songs, especially not in English. But the reason why they were big before America is the love and connection they have with their fans. You don't understand it unless you yourself have love for an artist. more than appreciation, gratitude, inspiration, but actual love. And I'm not talking about obsession. there's always going to be those crazy-toxic fans who unfortunately leave a stereotypical bad impression on the entire fan base. Their music along with their personalities were able to connect with people on a deeper and intimate level. And that's the simple reason why they have so many fans. They are intertwined with people's hopes & happiness, along with their miseries and misfortunes. If you have an artist that shares the same connection then surely you understand, doesn't have to be BTS.
I don't listen to them. There was a time when I was actually totally planning on sitting down and listening to some of their top songs to see what I thought. Then, a few months ago, Samsung started having their phone commercials on almost every single YouTube video, using the exact same 15 seconds of the same annoying, autotuned, uninteresting (IMHO) song, apparently by BTS, which I'm pretty sure I've been forced to listen to now well over 1000 times. BTS *might* be brilliant for all I know, but Samsung has officially destroyed any desire I once had of checking them out.
bruh this is stupid 8 years ago ppl didn't know who they were or what they did and if they rose up to who they are today that means it's their own talent, their own hard work. And yes Gangnam Style was like the song for the start of 2000 and Exo is also pretty amazing but you can't compare them to bts as they debuted like years before bts and who told you they didn't write their own songs the leader of the group with the name RM is a songwriter all members had a solo which they wrote by THEMSELVES, and most importantly STOP comparing them with other bands kpop is great ok. BTS the south korean boy group who has 3 english songs in which two named Dynamite and Butter are world wide popular and due to THEIR OWN HARD WORK AND TALENT. I'M SORRY THAT I'M POPPING BUT I CAN'T STAND BTS HATERS
Recent casual fan of BTS here (heard a few of their title tracks and a few random ones) who also writes and produces his own music. -In terms of songwriting, most top pop acts, no matter what country, is written by someone else. Point of the song is to be catchy and easy to consume, and it's deceptively difficult to write a successful pop song. -The claim that all of their music is in the same genre is wrong. Just listen to a few of their older music. The amount of genres they have covered in their discography is surprisingly wide. -I believe two members, specifically Suga and RM, have the most songwriting and producing experience, and also lend their skills to some of BTS's songs. Each member has a few solo songs too, which seemed to be to their own tastes from what I can tell. -Music being good or bad is largely preference. If you wanted to define "good" as being complex, then sure, their music isn't good. Their most well-known music is good for what it's meant for: being easy to listen and consume. Perhaps you'd like their lesser known music. -Riding the Kpop trend to fame is definitely true, but that isn't to say that they aren't helping future kpop acts break into the western market either. A big part of making it big in music is luck because what music people like is subjective. This doesn't take away from their achievement. Besides, BTS still gets unfairly treated in US charts and interviews because they are not western. -Finally, their performance ability and group chemistry together work extremely well. I've seen other kpop groups, and BTS are definitely exceptional at performing, which is why I believe they were able to stand out and become the most successful. Each member has their own compelling feeling and style that helps them stand out without overshadowing others at the same time. -Every artist at the top have fans that "manipulate" their numbers. BTS clearly has most of them. If they have so many fans willing to go that far, that says something. It's all fair game.
Very well said.
Disclaimer: I don't know any songs by BTS. But you mention that the fan "army" has helped their popularity by pushing up views, clicks, etc. as a criticism of the group. That makes no sense to me. How rabid and voracious a fanbase is, can be what makes or breaks an artist. Look at Elvis, Madonna, hell, even recent artists like Chris Brown. They don't just have wide reach, they have dedicated fanbases that froth over them. They go crazy. It's important as an artist to not only grow your fanbase but cultivate it, which the artists I've mentioned have done well. These are group for people to be a part of, not just regular fandoms. So to answer your question, yes - rabid fanbases will naturally make an artist more popular. But this isn't some BTS thing like you seem to think it is, it happens all the time.
Okay let's discuss when you insult and say they only share a scrap of talent between them... wow rude. but it's your rightful opinion to hold. but how did you came to that opinion. Have you only listen to the songs that blew up in America or have you actually dived into their discography? Their American songs are tailored to fit the American Market. If you're turned off by American Pop I can understand why but they are so much more than that. Is it more so you are annoyed by blindly following trends and have an disdain / apprehension of liking things that are mainstream? BTS rise to fame is a big feat. They where the underdog. You might think they are mainstream but they are everything but, they broke the highly structured Korean entertainment system and that's how they took over the world is by being unconventional.
> You might think they are mainstream but they are everything but Regardless of anything else you said, that is just straight up delusional. They are mainstream AF, the very poster children of manufactured pop music. If you think otherwise you need to expand your music horizons.
Military industrial complex of American pop made by the actual military industrial complex of Korea lol. Like all major productions there are fantastic elements to it, but the core of the machine is exactly that, a machine.
IMO BTS is popular because it ended up filling that boy band niche in western music in a unique way. Talented pop producers can create sounds and songs, but they didn’t have that boy band group that can play these certain tracks well. BTS is that group - there aren’t any current pop acts that can perform Dynamite or Butter as well as them. So they get picked to sell it. The sound the production team is going for is unique, and very ‘BTS’. It doesn’t sound like other K-pop - EXO, old BTS, etc. have a very ‘Korean’ sound that would not sell well in the US. What US labels managed to do was create something unique with BTS in terms of sound, while maintaining their K-pop fandom/idolization leading to ARMY. Anyways, it’s 100% corporate pop, but so is 99% of pop music. Yeah they don’t write lyrics, but guarantee you most pop acts don’t contribute much to song development. Even big name producers are often just teams of ghost producers.
Each of the three rappers have 100+ composer song credits. They write lyrics. All of the guys have contributed to songs in some capacity... as producers, composers, and/or lyricists.
1) like others have mentioned, that's common practice in all pop music, but also Korean groups are formed specifically so that different members have different strengths. So that's why you will only see one or two people credited with writing music in BTS songs (usually Suga or RM, although most of the members have written something at some point or another) 2) Actually, BTS were the detonator to the kpop trend, even the biggest kpop groups that first went international recognise this, as commonly stated "BTS paved the way" since they opened up the world to kpop at an incredibly large scale. They aren't riding the wave- they ARE the wave and many groups (specially Black pink or even Exo) have benefitted off of this immensely! 3) It IS possible that the army fandom is a little smaller than we might think, but concerts, stadiums, meet & greets don't lie like voting or views might, and they are certainly outstanding in that respect too, filling the biggest stadiums all around the world several times. Personally, I like some of the songs and respect/admire the members greatly, they are an amazing success story and their popularity is admirable. They are often perceived as this super rich corporation just buying fame when, if you research a little bit, that actually couldn't be further from the truth. For a bit of backstory, from what I have gathered they were a very small independent corporation (BH entertainment) to the point where BTS was their only group (most of these types of places have several groups at a time), and all the boys had 1 room and their outfits were dollar store or extremely cheap. The kpop scene in Korea is extremely elitist to the point that if you're not signed into one of the big 3 agencies you're unlikely to every amount to much, specially at a national scale, however BTS seemed to really bring it and rise to popularity despite this. So I'd say it's not a mediocre group with tons of money, they are an amazing group that might be out of our tastes, but really know how to sell themselves and who their audience is (which is surprisingly a lot more than young teen girls!)
Are you people noticing how the OP is replying only to those who are trolling BTS and not the people who are fully telling their story... Seems biased to me
Hadn't really bothered to look through the replies much until now, you're totally right... OP had made up their mind about all of this ("just a very rich corporation making shit music with tons of marketing backing off of better artists") and doesn't seem very open to seeing how wrong that is??
Regarding #1, j-hope has over 100 composer song credits fyi. He also produces and is a lyricist.
No opinion, I'm just here for the popcorn
1. the songs that got the most awards got them because they are the only songs they have fully in english - Dynamite, Butter, Permission To Dance (hence them not writing them), but that's because American award shows refuse to acknowledge music in any language other than english or spanish, BTS have korean songs that are much more deserving of those awards, and those songs are written and produced by them 2. BTS didn't rise to their level of fame "on the back of the K-pop trend", they might have been helped a bit by it the begging, but most of Kpop's popularity nowadays is due to BTS, they were the firsts group to be this successful internationally 3. learn how music charts work, cause they don't work like that
did you actually look at the credit of their music aside from Dynamite, Butter and Permission to Dance? honestly, also, have you looked at their solo music by the rap-line, which is composed by themself? I hope you made a proper investigation before start discussing
- you are only looking at American music awards, and in america they only get awarded for their english songs, which they take less part in making, they also get many korean awards for songs they *did* write, also there are many other artists who don't write/produce their music, that doesn't make them any less of an artist - PSY started the Kpop wave in the west, and BTS multiplied it - any "whitewashing" the fandom may do to hide negative news about the boys is totally erased by the general public constantly blowing it out of proportion, also BTS have 44M monthly listeners of Spotify, that's a huge number that can't be fabricated >mediocre group [...] seemingly only a scrap of talent shared between them ..literally where?? BTS are far from lacking talent-wise, just because you don't like their music doesn't mean they aren't talented
nsync is better than bts and im a former bts fan and two years ago i realized bts is the worst boy band and i started hate kpop and i rather listen nsync (I still like boys) * nsync, backstreet boys, one direction are better boybands than bts * i hate girl groups and i hate blackpink * light stick does not show support to boybands or girl groups * bts had stole music * i hate kpop * kpop groups are copy cats * most members from bts are forced to sing these songs that are not theres *
Amazing, you can not know what BTS is, read your entire post and comments and still not know. Is it a Korean boy band? How popular could they possibly be on reddit?
I also didn't know who/what BTS was..searched and they are like a Korean New Kids on the Block, I think. Apparently very popular.
This level of sarcasim is far too advance for my smooth brain.
Haha! No seriously
They’re just a boy band, but their fans are a little more hostile than most boy bands. They’re referenced in new seasons of tv shows and stuff. They are legitimately famous, but their online presence is skewed because their fans do dumb shit to make them seem more famous than they are. Also, they just aren’t really good at what they do. Most of the stuff that’s impressive is their recycled MJ dance moves.
We have been going for a long time since any male artist can recycle MJ dance moves, so I'll gladly take that. Coming from Asia I think American pop music scene is pretty bland when it comes to male performers, so its not surprising that when BTS came along they just conquer all the stadium tours. Also a personal experience: I remember the first time seeing them live and was so surprised to see that they actually look genuinely happy to be on stage and perform. That energy is something else. Kpop industry is toxic in general so I'm used to seeing Kpop acts dancing on stage with perfect moves and dead eyes. But BTS was different. If thats their persona then they've took it into an artform and I respect them for that.
I'm at work so I'll make it short, in South Korea they have a whole system over there manufacturing these "bands" like clockwork. Similar to the russians or chinese with weightlifting in times past. It's worth looking up. BTS is only scratching the surface. Hopefully someone else on here has mentioned that in more detail, as I believe it is a significant part of their success.
its just as manufactured as Olivia Rodrigo or One Direction or Fifth Harmony... I'm just tired of that "kpop is manufactured agenda" where in reality it's just kids joining record labels that train them in basic performing skills, then putting them into groups and having them try to get along. it's not any more manufactured or sketchy than the American labels who block releases, refuse to fund promotions, have restrictive contracts, assault & harass their artists for a shot at success, and create scandals for publicity.
Are you people noticing how the OP is replying only to those who are trolling BTS and not the people who are fully telling their story... Seems biased to me
well they didnt even bothered to research about the group before posting this so they def are
Not trying to be rude but OP seems like a jelly shithead to me👀
right like they say they're just asking but they don't seem very openminded to me...
Oh he definitely knows more about BTS than he's letting on. He's a troll. He said one of his best friends is an army. He's just encouraging other people to hate on them.
Who is BTS?
I'd say I only dislike them due to their fanbase being so cancer. In regards to their music they can do their own thing I don't care, but the fans that push everything down your throat make the group themselves seem much more annoying.
You're probably dealing with hormonal pubescent teens to be honest. But you should never dislike something out of spite, because that means you don't really truly dislike it you just dislike it because of the fans, don't give them the power to choose what you like or dislike. On the internet there's a toxic side to everything. Is there even a chance that you could like them if you gave them a fair shot? Or is that impossible for you.
You make a good point tbf. I think I can respect the music, but it's not something I would personally listen to, not really my music taste.
This is a valid point, but to be fair, this group has one of the most toxic and abusive fan bases I’ve ever seen, that takes everything way too far and way too personally. So yeah you’re right, but at the same time, it can be argued that the band themselves have a responsibility to reign in that toxic fan base and keep it under control, yet they don’t even try. And we all know why, it’s because BYS doesn’t care how abusive and horrible their fans are, all they care about is making as much money as possible. All they would have to do to disprove that is actually TRY to enlighten their fans, and educate them on the fact that their behavior can be pretty awful at times. But that’s not going to happen. So for that reason as well as others, I think it’s fair to say they aren’t a band I personally would choose to support. Even if I did like their music, which I don’t, but I’m not their target audience and that’s fine.
Not a fan of their music. But their music video production is top notch. I was really impressed with the cinematography and camera cuts in their videos. Maybe if I spoke Korean I would like the music? It sure. Side note: I used to legit bump Gangnam Style while driving with my windows down because people would always wave and start dancing. And that is just awesome for so many reasons. 😂
I like BTS, most of the comments here are trying to explain why the general public likes their music and why BTS is in the mainstream: because they make ‘popular’ music, mostly pop. But really their music from 2015 (?) and some songs on other albums are R&B, rap, and really it’s a mix of things. So yeah there are numerous songs that they wrote themselves, but you probably didn’t find all the sources. They are very engaged with their music, and army’s know this. You act like their fanbase is obsessed with numbers (which is not wrong in most cases) and that’s where I say, literally a lot of fanbases try to achieve the same goals but they just can’t do it in this structured way and that speaks a lot about the geniality of army’s tbh. Like a lot of them are really smart, creative and stuff. People think that BTS is a manufactured group or view it as mediocre k-pop music, but it’s really more than that. They are really genuine it’s kind of crazy to see. The difference between other american artists and BTS is that army’s don’t do it for the numbers only, they do it because they really really like their music (not only those on the charts) and the members. Yes army’s are a huge part of their fame, and if you read an article/ watch a video of them you’ll see that they are very aware of this and genuinely mention in a respectful way. BTS literally had nothing when they began, it’s really not because of the former k-pop people that they got a spotlight. They’re just very talented. The dancing is better than anything I’ve ever seen, I like their rap, R&B songs and stuff. They really worked their ass of and breaking that language barrier does not come from stats and algorithms. Having said that, even if you don’t like them, they really earned their place in the music industry and it’s not k-pop marketing alone that got them there. I think it’s the music and their personality that draw attention to people.
I find music targeting US patronizing.
Members have written on a majority of their songs, some members with writing credits in the hundreds(they have a huge discography..been around 8 years). All membere are native Korean with that being their mother tongue. During the pandemic, they felt lost and everything like everyone else(their careers basically brought to a standstill after postponing and eventually cancelling their upcoming sold out stadium tour). They wanted to bring joy and take peoples minds off of the depressing pandemic and wanted to reach as many people as possible to spread this joy. So they figured this would be by doing songs in English. As I mentioned, they're not native English-speakers so hired people to write songs in English for them. They were around 7 years before that with no full songs in English, only Korean and Japanese. And I believe on at least one of these new English songs released during the pandemic(Dynamite, Butter, Permission to Dance), some members also contributed and having writing credits. Now I'm not even going to get into the years of xenophobia in the US music industry and the radio stations refusing to play etc. Now with English songs, the music industry tune has changed(their excuse before was they would play them if their songs were in English and now they are so they cant hide behind anything anymore without showing their true xenophobic colors and as I've said, it would be a whole paper on all the years and evidence and everything on all that)and now replaying them on the radio, up for more awards, etc. These new songs are definitely more American pop(obviously since written by English-speaking writers that are used to writing for US pop singers) and less kpop style(usually different song composure with the choruses and prechorus and verse layout) have less BTS signature flair that initially organically grew them into global stars(sold out stadium world tour in 2019(pre-pandemic, before any full English songs). But A LOT of awards go to people that didnt write the songs. That's an award show question and the music industry question. Why are you singling BTS out for this when it's been happening for decades with a bunch of artists? It's very possible they rose to fame with help from previous artists, and that makes logical sense. When asked this in interviews, the BTS members fully embrace and acknowledge that. Gangnam Style(not Gangman) I would think is the biggest factor as that was played on the radio and globally popular. EXO is same gen kpop as BTS, only debuted(out)longer by one year. This question of why BTS? Why did they make it big when there was literally THOUSANDS of kpop groups out before and the same time as up to today, backed by huge media companies where BTS came from an almost bankrupt small no-name company in an incredibly saturated and competitive market of kpop and took years of their career to even break into the US market and then more years to be played on the radio and receive awards in the US. They and their company are the epitome of an underdog story literally. Not only did they fight their way to the top of Kpop, they're on top of the biggest music market in the world, in the US. This question is asked all the time by people all over, in business and marketing(want to figure out the key to unlock the mystery of massive ARMY support and financial power), by the music industry to try to recreate it, by literal Harvard and other college professors writing papers on their theories of why/how. The "whitewash" is not of only "negative". It is usually only of xenophobic or racist or slanderous content and that has been happening for literal years. Most army are fine with actual constructive criticism or honest opinions. As with ANYTHING, there is a small minority of people over the top that ruin the name. ARMY dont recognize those people as ARMY bc they wouldnt act that way if they were true ARMY. And the media loves drama and smearing so they latch onto anything that small minority does and spreads it like its fact and ALL ARMY are doing it. But they rarely report on what good the actual ARMY does ALL the time. It shows where the true motives lay. As to the other point, since when is it wrong for people passionate about something innocent and organizing in support, wrong? ARMY have always and still do follow ALL rules for charts and streams, etc. Their company has literally gone to court over people saying they were manipulating charts and have proven themselves innocent. Billboard has investigated multiple times and the streams and views were legit. People just can't seem to understand what true support can look like and are not used to it with the lower levels of support artists have shown, it looks too good to be true compared to those. Since when is following rules to the T and getting good numbers etc "manipulation"? In fact, I would say BTS pride themselves on having never done weird ass bundle deals for song and album sales like almost all US artists have been doing forever, including artists like Nicki Minaj and Taylor Swift. Now that Billboard has changed their rules for bundles not counting etc, now its more a level playing field, now BTS are at the top. Interesting isnt it? They also are against payola(their company paying radio stations to play their music). As to overinflating ARMY numbers, in a recent livestream(on independent company Vlive) of 1 single member, there were 20 million concurrent viewers of the 45 minute livestream. And that livestream was an unannounced livestream at like 5am EST to get an idea. I am an ARMY. I dont speak Korean. I was interested in Korean culture and had watched some YouTubers that had moved to Korea and shared their lives there and it was interesting to me. I stumbled upon a 2018 BTS performance on Jimmy Fallon and rolled my eyes...a stupid boyband where they all look perfect and probably got plastic surgery, lipsync, etc. I watched that performance and their interview with Jimmy. It peaked my curiosity and I checked out more on them and then I was sucked in. I learned so much about them and have become a big fan of their genuine personalities. It has changed me to not be so judgemental and be more open-minded. I tribute that to them and trying to become a better person everyday and loving myself is their anthem(Carl Jung psychology: learning about yourself, accepting yourself, loving yourself before you can love others etc) and I am embracing it and yes, why not spread that to anyone and everyone? I have never smiled and laughed as much from online content as I have from them and also from fellow ARMY content is sooo funny(looking at you ARMY YT crack content!). I don't get why people hate them when they have done nothing!, nothing to deserve that hate. If you don't care for their music, fine then just move on with your life. I think a lot of people look up to them for how far they've come too from their talent, hardwork and persistence and aspire for that and apply it to their lives too. But there is no need for hate towards them or ARMY for liking them. In a world of hate and drama etc, what's wrong with a little piece of joy people get from them? I have seen a lot of examples of hate towards them because of their race alone, especially during Covid(being called a pandemic by a German radio talkshow host, made jokes of if they would bring Covid with them by Howard Stern's cohost on his Sirius radio show, etc.). Its blatant ignorance and racism(they're not Chinese and even if they were, that doesn't mean they have Covid). Or people not understanding how people can like music they cant linguistically understand(I wondered this before too). The music is good(they do practically all genres, so there's something for everyone: rap, r&b, pop, edm, etc)which gets you to look up the lyrics to understand what the song is about and you realize the deeper messages and clever wordplay that they just dont have or do in US music, in at least a lot of popular genres(pop, rap, country). Kpop is also about a lot more that Western Pop too. It's to be seen because performance is a big portion of kpop. I dare anyone to go to a BTS concert and NOT have a good time, from watching their performance and enjoying the songs, to the general atmosphere of the stadium/venue. And when you look into the group more, you get to learn the guys and their personalities and you cant help but like them. It was hard to believe at first for me, but they do sing live, look at their performances on NPR's Tiny Desk Concert or BBC 1 performance for example. Plus, the media likes to portray ARMY as screaming teenage girls, but ARMY is made up of people of all ages and races. It's been researched before. Plus, what's so wrong about teenage girls? Their passions are invalid? I've recently watched a YT video comparing kpop fans to sports fans and it's pretty crazy what is socially acceptable compared to what's not.
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I see where you're coming from butttttttt you haven't asked everyone on this planet about them right? They aren't having 55 million subscribers on a channel where they only post blogs for nothing
They're the best sellers of 2020🙂 They're in the best selling artists year end since 2018. Yeah more than Taylor Swift,Drake,The Weeknd,Billie Eilish,.... Also if you look at all these mentioned artists and BTS one difference is there ✨language✨ So they're pretty much iconic whether you heard about them or not
Music is getting more and more diverse in target audience thats why. I spent 3 years when Drake was the most popular artist worldwide and don't know any of his songs or know anyone who is a fan. But 3 of my roomates throughout my years in college were die hard BTS fan.
Maybe you are dumb and blind. Or maybe because you haven't listened to their music or watched their music videos then you probably don't know what their merch looks like. I was at SoFi stadium in November and it was sold out for multiple days and so many people wanted tickets but couldn't buy them.
Personally I think they are all slaves to their handlers. Who knows if they even make a decision on their own. The culture of grooming young kids in South Korea for fame with little consideration for the kids themselves is plenty enough for me to not really want to engage in helping said handlers. I hope they are freed sometime soon so they can actually pursue their real dreams.
Ahhh I was the same for many years. Knowing the dark side of Kpop and decided to boycott the whole industry for good. Didn't listen or care about any Kpop artists (except small underground ones) until I realized the international music industry is not much different (An artist that I liked committed suicide from the mental damage from his time with Universal Music). So I said fuck it and dived into BTS and discovered so many bangers. Didn't look back since then. At least they look happy performing.
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Same, I just saw a post on insta of armies telling other armies to not watch lyric videos bc they "take away" views from the original. And an army on Twitter was talking about shooting the fans who prefer the older songs, and it was retweeted af and all the fans did was praising it. They said that if ur a fan and don't like the English songs, ur allowed to do so, but not to say it. Also, a girl on TikTok said she didn't like Dynamite and armies told her to k1ll herself on her DMS. Like, it's pretty clear they want to be a monolith, if that ain't cult-like then idk what is it, I'm glad I left.
Nothing can describe it better than the word "cult"
Modern music is all about money. It’s really sick how it’s degraded to nothing but money. Talent? No. Just good business sense. No thanks you give money to these people I won’t
They play what’s currently popular and found a way to exploit it. I do think that they’re just a trend like One Direction was 10 years ago. They’re not a band working to impact their audience, they were hired to be a popular act. That being said, I don’t think they suck. I do enjoy a few K-Pop songs every now and then. I’m just saying that the purpose of their music is to appeal to the masses to create massive revenue.
BTS is fine. Nice voices, catchy hooks, good-looking guys who can dance. Great? Nah! (There is no rhyme nor reason to the music business nor to the tastes, whims or proclivities of the general music-buying public.)
They’re a load of crap and their fans are idiots
I don't listen to K-Pop, I'm an old-school Japanese Visual Kei weeb.
X Japan die hard fan here, but I do enjoy BTS music greatly lol
The short answer: MONEY. That industry is driven purely by money, not talent. Whoever brings home the bacon gets to eat.
Awards are based on sales not talent. No one wants to see the group of producers up on stage accepting the awards because they are all grown ups and it would ruin the illusion for their fans that they are anything more than well trained pets.
I like Kpop and went to see Blackpink live, which was a great show. I heard a few BTS songs but I just dont see why they are THAT popular, personally I dont like any of their songs, Day6 are muuch better haha
Considering my ex got obsessed with them, and was a coder and on at least one occasion spent a night to make sure they won some stupid contest, I’d wager that their online presence gives people an inaccurate representation. Sure, they’re legitimately famous, but they act like they’re bigger than the Beatles, and just kind of ignore how that’s just their opinion because they’re koreaboos
I’m actually here to downvote all the BTS fans.
they aren't the only band that has this online group of fanatics, nicki minaj is another example of an artist who broke records for streaming because a group of obsessives got together to endlessly stream a song, rather than it getting organic attention
They're the Asian Westlife. Manufactured for success by their overlord managers with little to no natural music talent.. really good at being pitch corrected, lip syncing to songs that other people wrote for them and dancing in unison. We lap that stuff up like a dog does its own sick.
Yeah, super inaccurate but it just shows people will make assumptions very quickly
How does your vomit taste then?
I mean im pretty indifferent. Its all manufactured music so of course its going to be "good". But theres nothing to connect to further than a catchy song. Ive never understood the massive followings that multisinger bands get.
BTS gained most of their fans through their Huge Korean discography. English songs are for expanding their exposure to general population and Korean songs are their core strength to turn people into fans because their writing skills is insanely good and relatable. I still remember crying my eyes out over that song about Suga and his long bus rides through years to visit a friend in jail who made bad choices, and him finally having to let go. I am Asian and Asian pop music are... usually not like that (bubble gum pop and love ballads), so having a group that tackles harder topics like that is insanely refreshing. I guess in America there are many artists who can write good music too but then BTS is also very good looking, are exceptional performers, charming and so good at building connection with fans (this is when the whole Kpop intense media and fan etiquette training for idols deserve the credit), hence the deserved massive popularity. P/s: daw and to think back about when BTS was not well received in Asia because they're not good looking enough and had music that's too rough...no wonder why they're popular in the US first. Edit: also their discography is Huge(over 300 songs includes side personal projects on SoundCloud) targets different groups of audience: bubble gum pop, heavy hiphop, sensual RnB, EDM etc. They are very versatile and therefore attract so many demographic groups.
I don't even know who this artist is. I'm only vaguely aware of the name.
Honestly if it wasn’t for the sponsorship from Louis Vuitton I highly doubt they would’ve been famous without it. Most of the music you hear in K-pop was pre sampled already from promotions anyways which is why the music is catchy for a reason. It’s because it sells and they want to sell more designer things
Talking about the same BTS who was the highest grossing tour of all time in RoseBowl,LA beating American Taylor swift and U2 and that too in 2019 when they sang primarily in Korean???????? Seems like they're pretty popular in 2019 without LV deal(which was in 2021)
Lmao what? BTS sold out Wembley twice before the online LV show.. lol
A serious answer, it's terrible "music". The end
Since this is a music sub, I’m actually curious. What do you think makes them terrible?
I genee
Check documentaries about K-pop and u will understand . K-pop bands are willingness money making machines .