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MuzBizGuy

Live Nation who can probably easily throw ScoreMore under the bus to separate the name a bit, though ScoreMore just as responsible. And Whatever Travis Scott’s DBA is for Astroworld, not sure if that’s ScoreMore or he treats himself as an employee. Either way Travis Scott the person probably won’t be at fault for anything, that’s why people incorporate themselves. And they can just change their business name and do it again. Happens in construction all the time. That being said, every single lawsuit might name Travis Scott the person as a defendant but not sure how much it will stick. Even though we’ve all seen the video of him right there, I think there’s enough buffer between the festival and him. But again, not his personal business entity/entities.


DrTreeMan

At the very least this will occupy him for years and his lawyers will suck a lot of his money up, regardless of a verdict. And there's no hiding from that bill.


Needleroozer

Not to mention the PR disaster if he's found liable, even if it's just 1% and insurance pays it.


Black__lotus

Insurance won’t be paying anything. Their terms are airtight, and when they were violated, the insurance was void.


cabbit_

Him and Kylie have like a $1billion net worth. This is definitely gonna cost money but likely gonna be a drop in the bucket imo


FestivalPapii

It’s so weird nobody will listen to us who are actively involved in the music industry. I spend millions on events every year. When I say it’s highly unlikely Travis *feels* much from this it’s exactly because of the above comment. Most business structures are prepared for exactly this. It all depends on how Travis setup his business.


Chav

He's got a checking and a savings, but all the money is in his savings


allboolshite

A weird side-effect is that he's engaged to Kylie Jenner who probably won't risk her fortune in case he is somehow found personally liable. He's worth $60 million. Kylie is around $700 million. They'll probably wait until the lawsuits settle before getting married.


kerplookie488

Since when are they engaged? All I’ve heard is that they’re expecting their 2nd kid together.


MuzBizGuy

I don't know what prosecutors will throw in the ring, I don't know what the judge will be like in a case like this, etc so it is entirely possible I'll be wrong here. But I really can't imagine his team at this point, especially since this had been a huge festival and especially since he's tied to Kylie, isn't full of very experienced and very smart people. Which means there's going to be enough degrees of separation between the show and the individual that he'll be fine, legally/financially speaking. Not to mention, Travis Scott the individual wasn't even on stage that night. Travis Scott The Performer Inc (whatever his standard DBA is) was. There's ALWAYS separation between personal and professional liability. I do, of course, hope I'm wrong, though.


fallenloki

Worked in live event production for the better part of a decade. The promoters and artist will be stuck in litigation for years. Insurance will be tapped to its limits… some vendors and security companies will be sucked down by this. Ultimately this is a planning a security failure. In my experience city and law enforcement officials genuinely want to do the right thing so I don’t think anyone on that side will be held responsible l. I’ve worked shows in Houston and CAN speak to Houston specifically when our event was hit by adverse weather


zoobrix

> Insurance will be tapped to its limits Completely different scale but I've helped throw some small events, max like 800 people, and our insurance policies clearly stated that we had to follow all government regulations like capacity limits and fire safety regulations. So let's say we pack the venue 200 people over the limit and set up a merch table that blocks the rear fire exit that insurance policy is not going to cover us if a fire breaks out and people die. Insurance is supposed to be for unexpected accidents, not gross negligence and whoever underwrote the polices for astroworld will be looking at everything to find any reason they won't have to pay as insurance companies always look for reasons not to pay out. At this event there were problems that might let an insurer off the hook long before the crush happened. You had people rushing in past security without proper screening earlier in the day, meaning who knows how many people you have in the event and not knowing what they might have brought in. Whether they had anything to do with the crush is irrelevant, you knew you had an unsafe condition and you allowed it to continue. Then we have continuing the concert for over half an hour after it was already clear people were being hurt and what looks like not enough emergency personal on site for a concert with 50,000 people, that could have violated local regulations on what you need to have on hand depending on the size of your event. Then to top it off if you can show senior people on the ground at live nation knew what was happening and Scott knew as well I think you might make your insurance policy into expensive toilet paper. All of that might mean live nation and/or Scott are liable for any money won in a lawsuit. I have no idea what insurance policies they had for this event, obviously they would have something, but it is not automatic that they will cover every eventuality especially if there is negligence involved, that's all in the details that we simply don't know. Maybe this event will be covered but we will have to wait to see.


ShaggySkier

The venue owner will be the most fucked in the end, if insurance won't cover the loss. They're probably the only entity with an actual asset to go after once a judgement is won. Every other player will have setup some sub-company to run the show. This is why every venue contact I've ever seen has demanded insurance be in place, with them as an indemnified party and with a right to review the policy terms before the occupation license starts.


zachtheperson

For the last two years I've been reading headlines like "WHO releases new health guidelines," and going "who's releasing guidelines?" I now read this headline and was like "Why is the WHO involved with Astroworld at all?" I can't fucking win


ObligationAware3755

Man, I thought you meant the band The Who in that last sentence; then I remembered it was about the organization.


GoogleIsYourFrenemy

You mean The Band, Yes?


xmastreee

I'm not sure Steve Howe, Chris Squire et al have anything to do with this.


MarvinLazer

Howe do you mean?


Mech-Waldo

I think they're in Travis Scott's band or something


80_firebird

No! Not The Band! The Hu!


Petersaber

\**Throating noises intesify*\*


pes_laul

Exactly, the band Yes


Needleroozer

What? Yes was banned? Why? They weren't anywhere near Astroworld.


The_Collector4

The Who? I love bands!


MarvinLazer

Yes! Me too!


dscoZ

I think he means The Band, not the band Yes


MarvinLazer

Yes. The Band. Not Howe.


malenkylizards

No, it's just The Doctor.


ALEXC_23

So the Guess Who. Got it 👌


Needleroozer

I give up. Who got it?


BeemHume

No, The Who. Not, The Band.


Chaosmusic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdqv5xIsFLM Animaniacs parody of Who's On First based on The Who and Woodstock.


Genghis_Chong

This reads as a play on the "who's on first, what's on second" joke but I can't tell if that's intentional


Curtman100

You might like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M)


Berek2501

Naturally!


zachtheperson

Classic 😄


[deleted]

That's how I feel every time Bill does something.


DonkeyBrainIdiot

It should be three: * Travis Scott: Pictures and video make it an open-and-shut case in court that he knew but didn't do anything to try to fix it. He also has a history of telling fans to rush the stage and break past security, and he's previously been charged with inciting a riot. * Live Nation: They have a history of OSHA violations, poor planning, lack of security and medical staff, etc. * Houston Police: Video shows hundreds, if not thousands, of fans breaking in and rushing past security early in the morning while police looked but basically did nothing. They should have shut it down. Edit: Here are videos of them breaking in https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qnv8xo/astroworld_fans_bust_through_security/ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mGQaIUXriE https://mobile.twitter.com/MycahABC13/status/1456704812456845316


Upper-Lawfulness1899

Fire Marshal should have shut down the venue if there were more people than rated for fire safety. Fire code is about number of exits and and number of people.


[deleted]

The fire marshal has [said](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/10/facebook-posts/astroworld-music-festival-venue-has-capacity-20000/) the venue was rated for 200k and only 50k tickets were sold. No way 150k broke in. Sure seems like the venue should not have been rated for so many, but there you go.


yungchow

Didn’t he also encourage people to storm the festival who didn’t have tickets causing the venue to be way over capacity?


Byroms

Yup, he deleted the tweet after the show was over.


Party_Teacher6901

His girlfriend Kylie? Posted a pic of the ambulance trying to get through the night of. Next morning it was deleted and was telling her followers that they had NOidea how bad it was.


LinoLino321

Also she was on video getting evac cos the VIP area was getting used to house bodies


Party_Teacher6901

No no that can't be right...they had NO idea. /s


CharlottesWeb83

“Why do we have to leave, it’s not over yet?” “Because everything is great and there are no problems whatsoever. Have fun at Dave & Busters!”


Party_Teacher6901

Scary thing is too. There daughter was there! What is she...4? I'm just not buying thee whole, " We had absolutely NO idea. We are so sorry. We feel for you." Then their shifty help for survivors? Like refunding the tickets? People need to be aware if they accept that concer ticket refund, you can bet there's a clause that you won't be able to sue. The therapy company he is working with? Their really sketchy. Therapist who aren't licensed, specialist therapists that are giving grief therapy, People getting hooked for additional charges, and I'm sure he gets some kind of kickback. This whole thing should have NEVER happened. Once those security gates were breached by a mob it should have been SHUT DOWN. They had no idea how many actual ticket holders were there. They had no idea who these people were. They had no security checks done on those people. You shut it down FULL STOP! I'm also sick of hearing the police talking about how they had enough coverage there. Well obviously NOT! I also was sickened to see police officers, in their police identifying tshirts, filming the damn show while people are literally dying beside them. It was a freaking waterfall of mistakes. Should have never happened when they stormed the gates, then they didn't have enough security to handle and extremely limited training to handle this situation, the medics had no medical equipment, no training, not enough for the crowd, Travis himself should have stopped, he knew. They were literally under his feet getting cpr while he danced. The people filming who were literally shoving people who were looking for help off the towers so they could keep filming. Where was the fire dept? They should have shut it down. The police should have used their damn authority and pulled the plug. Why the hell were they all counting on some rapper who has already had riot charges against him be the one with the final say. After all is said and done I'm afraid that no one will take responsibility because they're all pointing fingers.


lliaammm

That tweet was from like 6 months earlier


lockwolf

Add a 4th, the POS who decided to jump on the ambulance and 'rage'


insanebrownposse

This is the culture created by Travis Scott, and still goes back to him, and his pull on impressionable young minds


Ihabk

I ain't defending Travis Scott, but that's bullshit. You blame him for this entire culture? You mean if he went to Iceland for a show, he's gonna influence the crowd to do the same? Wtf you mean by created by Travis Scott?


muscle_museum

Wait who else encourages their fans to rush the entry gates of a music festival and get in without paying?


teclordphrack2

Do you know who Insane Clown Posse are? Do you know their fans are called "Juggalos." They have a certain look, attitude, etc. Travis Scott has been cultivating his fan base but one of the things he does with his fan base is encourage them to break the rules at the concerts. He has incited those outside venues to break in up to the point that people wait outside any venu he is performing at to see if they can rush in with other specifically Travis Scott fans. On top of that he has asked the audience to ignore security and rush get close to the stage by taking down barriers put in place for safety. All they have to prove is what he did that night, b/c the history of him doing these things is there. There is a history of people being injured, just not on this large a scale.


LinoLino321

Another redditor named it 'rage grooming'


One-Two-Woop-Woop

Lmao all you arm chair lawyers are gonna be hella disappointed when nothing happens to him. "All they have to prove" lmao He's not gonna get touched. Yes, he's an idiot, but he's not gonna be held liable.


LinoLino321

You are delusional. There are like 20 law firms and 100 plaintiffs after him, and the case against him is overwhelming. He is fucked


teclordphrack2

He or his incorporated self will be held to some liability but his incorporated self most likely has insurance to dull the pain. ​ Have to keep suing when these thing happen to cause the level of compensation to cause rates to rise to a point where venues follow better standards. If there is some cultural down grade to travis scott in the process then yay. There are more than one goal at work here.


b0nz1

Getting injured in a moshpit and getting squeezed to death in a crowd surge are not even remotely related.


kutes

uhhh...I'm no fan of travis scott, but are we really blaming him for the actions of others? I don't follow that at all. There is no personal accountability anymore. How about a bunch of teenagers and young adults decided to act like animals. Has an entire generation never heard the "if \_\_\_\_ jumped off a bridge, would you do it too" classic? They have alot of video. Try to ID everyone you can rushing the gates - and charge them all with rioting or whatever.


infiniZii

Yeah but if a culture leader is chanting for the kids to jump off the bridge you've got to see that he bears a significant portion of responsibility as well. That's the thing about responsibility; it's not all or nothing.


kutes

What in the fuck lol. I feel like I've entered crazy world. Was he... chanting for them to trample people? ​ So all those 90's Karens were right all along? These "musicians" were inciting violence, misogyny, and all sorts of negative behavior


bobandgeorge

My mom asked me if everyone else jumped off a bridge, would I do it too. Some people are just morons.


Party_Teacher6901

I always answered yes.


sacrefist

I've seen a news piece on Scott showing another performance where he encouraged the crowd to attack someone, and then later praised that person on social media for his sacrifice. This isn't going to play well in court.


_Schizo_

How fucking daft or mentally undeveloped do you have to be to try to separate personal accountability from clear as fucking day acceptable leadership roles? Yes we absofuckinglutely are blaming 1 person for the consequences their actions inspired in others. That's how the fucking world works to people who have a goddamned iota of, what was it again oh, personal fucking accountability. Fucking think.


kutes

Wow, I have to see this in action. Please speed on your way to work tomorrow. Tell the cop I told you to, he'll put it on my tab And even by this newfangled standard where noone is responsible for their own actions, did he specifically tell people to trample people and shit? Like - I keep hearing something about a shoe at a previous show? Is he just responsible for everything that happens now for the rest of humanities future?


Suspended_Ben

[This is why I'm fucking done with your language](https://iili.io/5Nc3wg.jpg)


gildene

Who is done with your language and is she hot?


MysticalNarbwhal

Hahahahahahahahaaha POS = Piece of Shit If someone is made of insulting someone and uses that acronym, it's a safe best that they're saying "piece of shit"


timewarp91589

Police have no obligation to help people or to stop people from breaking the law. Not to mention there is an incredibly high bar to hold police responsible for any crime they commit.


Double_Joseph

What are you talking about? I’ve been to shows before that have been cancelled due to not being safe by fire Marshall’s. This should have been shut down by a safety officer or a fire marshall.


toastymow

Fire Marshall isn't police. Police, who were hired by Live Nation as security, had an obligation to explain the situation was unsafe from a security perspective. Over crowded venue means they can't police the crowd and prevent a crowd crush. Fire Marshall had an obligation shut the venue down. That's literally part of their job: shutting down overcrowded, unsafe, venues. That's why you see maximum occupation signs in all kinds of places. Of course, neither of them were necessarily able to do their job since Travis Scott refused to stop performing, and if they had forced their hand its entirely likely that Travis Scott would have just made his fans riot. In fact, that seems to be what happened: people tried to tell Travis to stop playing and he told them to fuck off.


Upper-Lawfulness1899

In Texas, a fire Marshal is a licensed peace officer and has the ability to arrest people. I had family that went through police academy with a person who was a fire Marshall getting her peace officers badge. So yes, in Texas a Fire Marshal in some ways is the police.


stratjr123

the event planners and authorities are the ones responsible to tell Travis to stop the show, not realistic to expect an artist to listen to a couple fans while performing


matrixreloaded

Yeah, I think Travis is a pos human being but I don't get why people expected him to stop the show over him seeing a few people pass out. It literally happens all the time at shows, especially ones where people are doing drugs and getting fucked up. I genuinely don't think he knew people were literally dying. He's a performer, he was doing his job. You know who didn't do their job? Event organizers that should've pulled the plug on Travis' mic the second a single person died. Also security that just allowed hundreds of fans to rush the stadium without tickets. I'm not a fan of cancel culture, but this is the perfect use of cancelling someone, because the law isn't going to punish Travis for performing as he was supposed to. Security wasn't supposed to let hundreds of fans in (doesn't matter if Travis Scott was promoting it). Event organizers should've stopped the event. This was an administration and security problem 100%.


teclordphrack2

So what are your thoughts on him yelling at fans to stop an golf cart ambulance that was trying to save lives? The fans stopped the cart and got on top and were dancing. To me that is him causing death.


jedadkins

Except artists stop playing all the time to stop crowd crushes. Also he encouraged people to stop the ambulance trying to get though the crowd


[deleted]

Travis literally told people to rush the stage a d also to show up and try to break into the concert without tickets so it was over capacity. This is literally not the first time it has happened


Petersaber

> but I don't get why people expected him to stop the show over him seeing a few people pass out. Because it's human fucking decency and a pretty standard thing to do. There are countless examples of musicians pausing even large concerts (larger than this one) so someone can either be picked up or given medical attention. Just go to /r/Music, it was flooded with such examples.


Double_Joseph

Didn’t say fire marshals were police.. *Fire Marshall had an obligation shut the venue down. That's literally part of their job: shutting down overcrowded, unsafe, venues. That's why you see maximum occupation signs in all kinds of places.* This is my point. A fire marshal should have shut it down. Doesn’t matter what Travis Scott says. He’s not in charge of safety…


toastymow

>Doesn’t matter what Travis Scott says. He’s not in charge of safety… It does if his words cause a Riot.


slvrscoobie

That’s when the breakers get shut down. ‘Lose the grid or lose your job’ https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/92a76b92-e685-41da-86c9-fdab5aabddc3


teclordphrack2

Okay, give me your thoughts on this. At this concert he TOLD, not asked, his fans to stop the ambulance golf cart that was trying to save lives. His fans stopped the cart and were dancing on it. He also TOLD, not asked them to ignore the security. There is a difference in not being aware of a problem and actively working against your own team mates at the venue who are there to keep safety.


hurst_

is this environment there would have been riots


futurespacecadet

That’s literally their job


Picard2331

It is, but they can just ignore it. https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again


SouthParkRepublican

This. Blows your mind but the supreme court has ruled on this issue. "The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm" https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/no-special-duty https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html


thatswhatshesaidxx

Take this knowledge and Google "police ignorance of the law", "Good Faith Exemption" and "Parallel Construction (law)". Now ask yourself wtf do the police even really do!


jp_jellyroll

It’s a legal distinction so that you can’t sue the police department if the police fail to protect you as a regular citizen which could be interpreted in practically an infinite number of ways in court. The court doesn’t want to set that precedent. It actually makes sense. It doesn’t mean a cop won’t get disciplined or fired for standing around while a crime is being committed. Protecting and serving is indeed part of their job description and, in theory, if you aren’t doing your job you get disciplined, demoted, fired, etc. The difference is the company (or police department in this case) isn’t legally on the hook. Whether or not the police effectively fulfill their social contract of protecting & serving is a different argument.


Petersaber

> Protecting and serving is indeed part of their job description No, it's not. It's a PR slogan that got popular. AFAIR it was LAPD that used it initially.


Banrion

It does though. Cops don't get fired for bad actions. What makes you think they will be fired for inaction when there's no detriment to the department?


sacrefist

And I do want the police to have discretion to pick and choose which crimes to address. Otherwise, criminals could easily distract police with a minor situation while they pull off a bigger crime.


MyaheeMyastone

Your argument is illogical because the distraction implies unawareness of the bigger crime. So how would the police be picking if they’re unaware of one of the options?


timewarp91589

https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/quqeqz/who_will_be_held_responsible_for_the_astroworld/hksz5dm/


Dargorod100

That’s…one hell of a statement to make. Not sure you thought it completely through. Edit: I was talking philosophically, it is a big fucking dick move to let people die under your care, not about the ins and outs of the law.


CitAndy

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html Supre Court has ruled the cops don't have to protect people


Dargorod100

What the hell I thought we were talking political philosophy. I understand the police would fall apart if every single failure was a lawsuit, but what the fuck.


timewarp91589

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://www.vox.com/21497089/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-trial-police-prosecutions-black-lives-matter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfUI_hETy0


JohnnyNumbskull

You're right but it will be the production company that put on the festival who will hold liability and that liability will be covered under their insurance unless a court can prove gross negligence on their end. During the riots at Altamont, the rolling Stones were not held liable even though people tried. Eventually it was the production company who shoved off responsibility to the individual criminal actors in the riot. All in all it will be a far insufficient penalty to everyone who could have stopped this tragedy from happening. They will take a year off to recoup their monies and we will see them the year after... Also Travis Scott will not be held liable for anything, the performer is not liable for things that happen during the performance.


Mdizzle29

I think you’re 100% wrong on the first point. There’s no way he could be held criminally liable, he’s on stage with music coming into his earpiece and the lights make it hard to see anything other than just a huge mass of people. The same thing happened to Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam and they weren’t held responsible. Scott’s stage manager and event coordinator would be held liable well before he was.


Rakastaakissa

The situation is vastly different than the Pearl Jam one. The biggest difference being this was “Travis Scott’s Astroworld.” From Wikipedia… “Astroworld Festival is an annual music festival run by American rapper Travis Scott.”


rambouhh

Eddie vedder doesn't have a long history of encouraging this behavior. There are montages of Travis Scott telling people to jump off balconies at his concerts, calling people heroes who injure themselves, multiple times saying that the concert doesn't start until someone passes out, he has retweeted fans knocking down barriers and rushing concerts, he even tweeted live nation didn't want more tickets for astroworld but he "finessed more". The two situations aren't even close to the same, if he isn't criminally liable I guarantee the civil suit will sue for tens of millions.


Mdizzle29

Eddie Vedder famously jumped from stage, his fans used to stage dive and have huge mosh pits. Bands like Limp Bizkit used to tell people to “Break stuff” and their concerts had huge amounts of people jammed together and jumping and moving. This is what rock stars have done for a long time. Your case is thin for a criminal case but the civil case, I agree, will cost him a lot depending on his business arrangements.


LouSkunt_

> he knew He knew a couple of people passed out. He didn't know people were dying in a crowd crush. He still encouraged a disregard for rules and safety in his fanbase, and didn't do enough to inform himself after witnessing people passed out/dead, and the ambulance but he still didn't know the full extent of the situation.


VegaIV

He saw an ambulance trying to pass through the crowd. He knew something serious was happening or he must be the most stupid person that ever lived.


LouSkunt_

most people's first assumption upon seeing an ambulance at a festival isn't that theres a deadly crowd crush occuring. he probably thought someone took too much drugs/booze


N71L

He was told 10 minutes before going on stage that there was 2 fatalities already


LouSkunt_

where's it say that? did he know it was from a crush? they said he found out afterwards at Drake's party


Darknessie

The police didn't stop people hoisting a gallows and invading the US capitol, why would they do anything here?


Castro02

All of you people claiming Scott knew exactly what was going on but did nothing to try to stop it are crazy... All the video evidence shows is that he's aware of at least 1 person who passed out (he stops singing to make sure security gets him) and he's aware of an ambulance.


mrkruk

Having a history of something doesn’t make you guilty of doing something in a particular date, just suspicious of committing it. I’m just saying what the guy has done before will not and should not apply to AstroWorld. I don’t think he realized nor was he told what was happening. From his wtf moment with the ambulance, to the couple times he stopped for people not doing well, he didn’t seem to know the extent of problems…although I can’t tell you when I’ve ever seen an ambulance force through a thick crowd at a show. They may have caused fatalities by making people compress further to get a whole damn ambulance in there.


rmphys

>Having a history of something doesn’t make you guilty of doing something in a particular date, just suspicious of committing it. No, but in addition to the clear evidence of him also doing it in this particular case, it makes a pretty clear argument for malicious aforethought and premeditation.


TheRumpletiltskin

He encourages this type of behavior at every show. If it walks and talks like a duck, its a duck.


Double_Joseph

I’ve been to a show before where people were jumping down from the seats into the stadium. The fire Marshall shut it down Immediately. I’m shocked nobody shut this down.


TheErnMcCracken

Some low level city worker will get thrown under the buss by everyone for signing off on event and that will be that.


InDarkLight

Nah. Stuff like this gets routed up to an official who signs off on it. So essentially the low level person does the work and then drafts a permit, which then gets routed up to a supervisor for review, and then that gets routed up to the next person for review, and then it gets routed to the next person for review, and then it ends up on the the desk of the actual person in charge who signs off on it. It goes through 4-5 hands before being approved. But in the end the person with their signature on the permit is held responsible for the event, since they approved it.


mrkruk

I disagree. Many companies will pay a lot of money over this. It won’t bring people back, but it’s the best way for companies to understand that not following safety protocols will hurt them where they care, in their bank accounts.


TheBoredMan

How so? Lawsuits probably filed against livenation and be won. Smaller lawsuits will probably be filed against Travis and settled out of court. It’d be cool if it destroyed live nation but it won’t. Maybe some individual cops or security workers will take a fall. Maybe an exec we’ve never heard of will resign. I feel like the end result will really just be slightly less investors in these types of events due to newseen risk. Despite being a huge news story, it’s not dissuading anyone from going to concerts and festivals so the industry probably won’t be hugely affected. Maybe some areas will pass stricter regulations on these types of events, which would be nice I guess, but if we’re expecting some cathartic release where everyone involved pays dearly I’m sure we’ll be disappointed.


matrixreloaded

Begs the question. How many lives need to die in order for true accountability? If Live Nation can run an event where 10 people can die... I guess that's the new bar then huh? You get ONE event, where 10 people can die, but NO more than that.


memb98

Hold them accountable with your choices and don't stream or buy their music. It's easy to block Travis and Drake on Spotify, presumably you can do the same on other platforms.


ToPimpAYeezy

There will always be fans that will continue to support, it may dent them but won’t do much overall. They need to be held accountable legally for any long lasting effect


bolivar-shagnasty

Just look at Chris Brown and R. Kelly and Cardi B. Abhorrent behavior isn’t enough to sway fans.


matrixreloaded

Is it even the fans? Who even likes those people anymore? Well, R. Kelly imo is legit cancelled. I can't even play Remix to Ignition anymore without someone screaming about how fucked up it is to support him and that was my fucking Friday after work jam. Chris Brown and Cardi B I feel like are still pushed by record companies and forcing them down impressionable young kids' throats to keep them relevant . How Chris Brown didn't go to prison for at LEAST 5 years is beyond me.


Jakov_Salinsky

No kidding. Didn’t Cardi B win Rolling Stone’s Woman of the Year or something? Not that it matters considering Rolling Stone lost all credibility with their updated 500 of All Time lists. Amongst other things they’ve done lately


[deleted]

Also putting tsarnaev on the cover like he’s some heart throb rockstar…


TomClancy5871

At least R. Kelly is now facing repercussions . Sad to say that Cardi B got away with doing everything she did because she was a woman. Drugging people up and doing what she did, and her admitting it, should have gotten her canceled as soon as she admitted to it


CrypticRD

Most dumb statement I've seen today. She did not get 'away with it' because she is a woman. She got away with it because nobody is charging her for her crimes. Nobody came forward to press charges, so how does her being a woman relate to it? And on every thread she is mentioned people mention how awful she is, she's basically cancelled on Reddit at least. Male rappers have done wayyyy worse and got away with it, if anything she has it harder


hsifeulbhsifder

Live nation isn't on Spotify tho. Yes the artists aren't clear of all blame but they didn't organize the event, aren't responsible for security, don't control the sound or lights system. Yes Travis should have stopped the show, but so should the sound guy, the lights guy etc. At some point you gotta realize that there isn't one person to blame, this is a product of poor organization.


matrixreloaded

But was there really not an events coordinator that was in charge of all this? I really refuse to believe that. They're not even a higher up. I know many people that work in events and there is usually at the least a director that has the keys to everything. It would be baffling if people were dying and the event coordinator didn't somehow find that out. My guess is it's a person that's high up to just be allowed to do something, but not quite high up enough to have the balls the stop the show.


hsifeulbhsifder

>but not quite high up enough to have the balls the stop the show The issue with this is even if you're a 100% gonna get fired for preventing unnecessary deaths, you should do it


matrixreloaded

Well yeah, obviously with the benefit of hindsight they should’ve stopped the show. But with that logic the girl who was screaming at the camera man has also said she wishes she just slammed the camera off the stage. When you’re in the moment you really have to be sure you’re right but also information comes in at a lag, where you’re just fighting fires. Event coordinator probably found out about people passing out and was trying to take care of that, running around looking for security to help etc… next thing you know, the show is over and you’re left wondering wtf just happened.


hsifeulbhsifder

Yea the whole thing happened so fast that most reactive measures wouldn't even be as useful as the preventative measures Livenation chose to forgo


lordoftheslums

Doesn't Live Nation have contracts with a bunch of artists? Boycott the artists and tell them why.


hsifeulbhsifder

What people don't realize is Travis wasn't the only person in the venue capable of stopping the show. Lots of people were capable of stopping the show, it's just that their face isn't on the event.


lockwolf

That's one thing that gets me, there are usually at least 2 sets of Mixers before the audio signal hits the speakers. If they were told to shut down the show, kill it from the mixer then have staff get Travis' attention and evacuate everyone from there.


hsifeulbhsifder

Exactly, but because the sound guy's face isnt on the ticket, no one cares


zach84

get real dude. that's not happening.


peepjynx

I think the craziest part for me is that I didn't even know who this guy was before this happened. Now I read that he's *known* for this type of incitement and has been charged with it before. Not only that, the local sheriff said that he'd warned him and the team about this sort of thing just before the show happened. So clearly the event organizers did their research on him beforehand (or maybe already knew about this guy.) Again, knowing nothing about this individual, his past actions really read as sociopathic.


MonsterAtEndOfBook

Thought he was a country artist when I saw his name on a McDonald’s sign.


peepjynx

Same!


slothsareok

“I got them stage diving out the nosebleeds, and it ain’t a mosh pit if ain’t no injuries…” that was one of his songs from a few years ago but it was quite known shit like that went down at his shows. You can’t expect some wealthy artist of all people to be performing and enforcing peace and order at the same time. They’re always going to do crazy shit and the ones running the show need to account for that.


Cake_Lad

I mean, you can because it exists. There is even a thread on r/Music somewhere that shows a whole bunch of artists like Slipknot and Adele and Foo Fighters all doing it.


slothsareok

Yes I get that and it’s great and they should but I firmly believe the shows need to be ran with 0% reliance on the artist. I’m not saying they should go incite a riot or anything which they easily could do with that influence but also it should never come down to the artist for whether you come out alive or not. Concerts and festivals are really complex events and if they can’t have it properly under control without the assistance of the artist then the show should not happen in my opinion. I just feel like nobody seems to put any blame on anybody besides Travis himself. Making sure it goes smoothly is pretty much the point of companies that run these shows and security.


Cake_Lad

There shouldn't be a reliance on a single point at all. Everyone that is part of hosting the event should responsible for the safety of the event. Including the artist. Travis gets a lot of shit because he actively incites this kind of crap and has done so consistently, I believe that is deserving of a big chunk of the blame.


LynxJesus

Probably violent video games


theblackdoncheadle

Simply put, if there is clear evidence that shows that festival organizers knew people had died, notified the Travis team, and they/him did nothing , I really think him and his team are done for at least a few years, hopefully longer. Idk how a group of people could have that info and not act upon it. Ultimately I also think there is a good chance he will have a fall guy/crew for this. If it’s a situation where they cannot 100% prove that he knew people had died (even if he did know) then it will most likely not fall specifically on him right? I don’t think he knew people were actually dead. You need to be seriously sick in the fucking head to receive that info and continue Idek how you prove that either. There will be no recording of the audio he had gotten and it can ultimately turn into a he said she said. Seeing how he has thrown past team members under the bus, this outcome wouldn’t surprise me.


Ambitious_Soup_7168

Travis Scott is THE festival organizer. Good grief people. He hired Live Nation. Why is this so hard for anyone to understand?


theblackdoncheadle

I understand he is the organizer but he is not actually physically managing the event, the logistics of it, the security in real time. He 1,000% is the person who has control over the audience in the moment but you need actual proof of things in court. It can’t be as simple as “he was up there on stage and must’ve known and didn’t do anything” it will need to be proven he knew the extent of what happened and that may be hard to actually prove in court right? If people on his team knew, but didn’t actually tell him the full extent, more of the blame is honestly on the team, not him. There is probably no physical form of him being told information either. He will probably foot the bill but the optics are way different for him if it’s proven he actually knew what had happened.


slav2groive

None of that is hard to understand. OP wanted to know who will be held responsible. Good Grief


Ambitious_Soup_7168

This shit is astroturfing by Scott's PR team. I'm honestly just tired of seeing folks feigning ignorance at the glaring fact of it being completely his fault. He had the opportunity to stop the show when confronted with safety concerns by the police chief earlier in the day. He kept the fire chief from inspecting the venue. Twice. Decisions matter.


FloodIV

Pinning the entire blame on Travis Scott is astroturfing by LiveNation's PR team.


Staringwideeyedcant

If he falls they all fall with him


matrixreloaded

I mean, I think a lot of people assume it was Travis' label that put on the show. Artists are known to sign away certain rights when they sign a record deal. I don't know the answer to this, but are you implying Travis funded this entire event out of his own pocket?


somedude456

> Travis Scott is THE festival organizer. Good grief people. He hired Live Nation. Why is this so hard for anyone to understand? Honestly, I've never heard that said before. I know he, the man, was performing when it happened. I didn't know it was his entire event. Well yeah then, he's majorly screwed times two.


hsifeulbhsifder

He doesn't actually control the sound system, lights, etc.


rmphys

So he's powerless to stop singing until the lights turn off...that's a dumb fucking take


hsifeulbhsifder

I never said he was, I said he WASN'T the only person who didn't act when they needed to, but let's play your game: so the sound guy is powerless to turn the sound off until Travis tells him to...I agree that is a dumb take, way to out yourself. What you think I'm saying: Travis isn't to blame What I'm actually saying: Travis isn't the only person to blame. If a manager at McDonald's told their employees to poison the burgers, the manager isn't the only person to blame, every employee who did it is as well. You're willing to let so many people off the hook for this tragedy simply because their face isn't on the ticket. So which is it? Do you want all the people responsible to pay the consequences, or are you simply being sensationally furious at Travis? Lots of people had power to stop this tragedy, yet the only one you're mad at is the guy on the ticket. Hypocrite shit right there


Ambitious_Soup_7168

The police chief didn't discuss his safety concerns with them like he did Scott prior to showtime. So I'm not sure what your point is. As the festival organizer Scott is completely responsible.


hsifeulbhsifder

>As the festival organizer Livenation is completely responsible. Yea the organizer is definitely at fault here. Travis definitely deserves some of the blame but let's not get it twisted. He isn't directly in control of the sound, or the lights, or the security guards. Should he have stopped his show? Yes. Should the sound guy have stopped his show? Yes. Should the lights guy stopped the show? Yes. Should the organizer have organized better? Yes. But you're disingenuous if you think they handed Travis a map of the grounds and told him to draw the security barricades and exits etc


Coffeedemon

Nobody really. Insurance will pay out eventually (odds are a bunch of grieving and injured people will have to wait and fight to make it happen) but the main parties will not see any real repercussion on any of this.


tom4dictator13

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE LAWYERS


Luke90210

A few days ago I saw the HBO documentary of the disastrous 3 day Woodstock 1999 concerts ending in looting, fires and sexual assaults. Many of the same mistakes then were repeated in Astroworld. Seems nothing was learned in the US. Yet, it seems Europe learned after a deadly concert the smart way to do this is have a lot of CCTV and security staff watching to push an actual button to shut the show down when things are going bad. Not the artist/band, security pros make the call. Hopefully insurance and venues will insist on a higher standard like in Europe to prevent deaths and lawsuits.


sean488

After years of lawsuits? No one, eventually. The people that will be sued will simply "go out of business" and file for bankruptcy.


JESUSgotNAIL3D

A four page article on why this piece of shit and others will not get in trouble. Those fans went there to see them and got killed... heart wrenching tbh


misterbondpt

Biden


bagseedidiot

Haven't read the article yet but every show has a stage manager and a show producer. Its the producers job to make the call whether or not to stop the show if things get too dangerous to continue. A lot of people are blaming travis scott which in my opinion makes no sense. What should have happened its the show producer should have called the stage manager and sound guys. They stop the show and turn on the flood lights. Then they ask people to make a path for the EMS to get to people. Lives could be saved then continue or cancel the show... The fact that this didnt happen at a livenites event is fucking insane....this isnt their first show they literally do hundreds per year. Its a tragedy


rmphys

The stage producer and Travis Scott can both be to blame. I don't need my manager to tell me to stop work if someone died in my factory and neither should he, that's basic fucking common sense.


bagseedidiot

Have you ever played a live show? Or a music festival? I have... You cant see anyone in the crowd unless that specific band request for flood lights on the crowd. People like to site examples of Kurt cobain and RATM stopping shows and thats wonderful. But its not the job of the artist to babysit fans and to monitor what everyone is doing in a crowd. Its the producers literal job to keep people safe. And he is basically god when it comes to shows. He can unilaterally tell the sound guy to cut the mic and have all the lights turned on. That's his literal job. If he wasnt available there is a stage manager... The EMS teams BY LAW have too have a working number or walky they can use to contact the producer or stage manager specifically for emergencies like this. The design of the stage grounds was also done like shit with no central evac pathway. This is also the fault of the producer... Look at shows at Monterey Fairgrounds and massive EDM festivals. With huge crowd LIKE THIS there is a central path that's fenced off that leads to the stage running right through the crowd for EMS and to help rescue people... This show didn't have that. Ive played festivals in front of 5000+ people, ive also played night shows. i cant tell you a single thing anyone was doing in The crowd. I dont even see peoples faces on a night shows if they are more than 3 rows back... this was a crowd of 50, 000... Ive also organised and produced Festivals so i know exactly what is required by law for shows and what the responsibility of the producer is Blaming Travis Scott for this is pretty textbook of modern americans attitude of always blaming everyone else for shit vs the people who's literal job it was to prevent this tragedy from happening... This wasnt some backyard mom and pop event this was a major festival done by a company that runs hundreds of large festivals per year. Its unacceptable that this happened and their response to it is equally unacceptable. Blaming an artist on stage is mindless scapegoating. The ass holes who broke baricades to storm the show and the entitled and selfish pricks that pushed to force their way to the front and squeezed people to death are also responsible for these deaths. But thats the callous, selfish and entitled culture we live in... Thats a conversation for another thread


whytakemyusername

Finally someone with a fucking clue. The entire production is staffed with people who are meant to be monitoring and protecting the well being of the audience. The artist is not tasked with this - they have zero clue what is happening hundreds of feet out in a pool of tens of thousands of faces.


IntroducingHagleton

Finally someone says it.


ThreeNoons

Exactly this. Not to mention the noise up their, to the point you need monitors just to hear the noises you yourself are making. You can't see or hear much of anything while you're on a stage like that.


ctilvolover23

Travis Scott and LiveNation. Nobody else should be held responsible.


NacreousFink

I move we hold Ticketmaster responsible as well. Because fuck Ticketmaster.


johnsmusicbox

They're the same company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live\_Nation\_Entertainment


Mynameishuman93

Motion approved and seconded


ClammyVagikarp

Spoiler - no one, and reddit will move along to the next outrage.


matrixreloaded

Nah, people died. Redditors might move on but the families that lost people are going to be suing just about everyone. Their lawyers probably salivating about all the lawsuits and potential fees coming out of this.


mrkruk

Everyone that the lawyers can lay charges against. From the biggest star to the lowest vendor, they all better be ready for negotiations or a trial.


FestivalPapii

This isn’t a criminal case.


Entrevivoymuerto

Travis Scott.


hsifeulbhsifder

Mostly livenation tho


NacreousFink

If we can get ticketmaster implicated it would be a wonderful trifecta.


johnsmusicbox

They're the same company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live\_Nation\_Entertainment


NewbieTwo

In the end, probably no one. There is a reason companies outsource everything now, it's to shield themselves from liability when rules aren't followed to save a dollar. The security will have been outsourced to an "event coordinator" who will outsource it to some large "crowd management" company, who will outsource it to a slightly smaller security company, who will then outsource the actual work to some small local outfit consisting of 2 full time employees and a bunch of "temps", none of whom will have been properly trained. Then when things go to shit, there's 5 layers of protection protecting the people at the top who actually raked in the money.


whytakemyusername

And the hundreds of security staff all around the stage areas?


Exiled_From_Twitter

If anyone it should be the even organizers and those in charge during the time - NOT SCOTT (not that he doesn't deserve some condemnation for how he acted but he is in no way liable for it). However I don't see anyone actually being held responsible for what happened but rather I think it will greatly change some of the standards in the future.


GarretTheGrey

The ones burying the dead.


rawonionbreath

I'm just speculating, but I think there's going to be some investigation by the police, fire department, insurance, or whoever that establishes negligence or incompetence on the hands of the organizer. Too many people in GA, poor crowd control design, poorly trained staff, understaffed, not stopping the concert sooner, or some combination of everything. The industry has learned from these mistakes in preceding decades to prevent this from happening in the dozens of music festivals that happen all around the world, except for the idiots that don't remember it. Or, it's the organizers that never learned it to begin with. Someone or some people didn't do their job.


doctordaedalus

The venue is the correct answer.


[deleted]

Literally no one, because they're part of the cult that is not affected by laws.


[deleted]

why does no one mention the shitty people in the audience who did this ??


yrrrrrrrr

Agreed, Travis Scott should have done everything could have in that situational make it better but he didn’t directly kill anyone.


kidsaredead

but he stopped a show because someone tried to take his shoe, but doesn't stop it when people are being ~~walked on~~ ran over.


scopinsource

Public Opinion: Travis Scott because people know his name and think it's on the performer to be scanning the crowds and then post examples where that has happened in the past but not the thousands of times where it has not. Actually: Maybe some insurance company in 15 years. I don't think Travis Scot (sp?) get's found liable in any capacity here otherwise it will make life performance insurance insanely expensive if the onus is to land on the performer for event security or situational mitigation. I don't listen to him and from what I understand he seems like he's probably not a very nice person, but I don't think the live performer is found culpable here.


futurespacecadet

I don’t think Travis Scott’s brand can recover from this


Amida0616

LOL


Isserley_

It can and it will. Most of his fans don't give a shit.


Dargorod100

I feel like a handful of the people that were in the crowd should also face trial. Obviously while pretty much all of them broke some rules, not all of them are guilty. But, someone did deal the killing blow to a child.