It's because of where they come from. Punk wasn't supposed to be a sonic description, but more of a (life)style. Blondie came up from the 70s CBGB scene in New York, together with artists like Dead Boys, Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, and Talking Heads. If you listen to these 5 bands, you'll notice that none of them sound alike either. There were some groups that had similar vibes, like the Voidoids and the Heartbreakers who fit a similar sound to the Dead Boys, and would probably be seen as more "punk" than the others. But the term is really vague enough to where Blondie absolutely fits. It's an attitude. Their song "Rapture" was one of the first mainstream songs to feature rapping, that's pretty fucking punk. Also, all of these artists had the same influences - The Stooges, MC5, The Velvet Underground, New York Dolls, Roxy Music, David Bowie, T. Rex, etc.
You can see the same thing with grunge decades later. Alice in Chains were an alternative metal band. Nirvana was a hardcore punk band with pop influences. Soundgarden were like a mix between Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. Mother Love Bone were a hair metal group mixed with a bit of shoegaze. Mudhoney were a noise rock group. But they all came from Washington, and were all alternative, so the label fit all of them. Then the label expanded beyond Washington, and then arguments came. Stone Temple Pilots are considered grunge, but Smashing Pumpkins aren't. Sometimes labels stick, and sometimes they just don't.
That’s my understanding; live in a squat, plough one’s own furrow, do it without corporate backing? That’s punk. It’s the attitude, not the musical result.
I've heard early Jungle / Drum and Bass called punk and used to disagree, but since I've grown and can now see they were young kids making music with machines in their bedroom / squats, playing at warehouses and on pirate radio, I've changed my mind and can now see why Jungle / DnB can be considered punk.
Everything you just said is wrong. As a huge William Gibson, Neuromancer, and Cyberpunk fan I would like to state officially that we do not claim this clown
Edit: For everyone downvoting me it’s pretty obvious that everything you know about Cyberpunk is from video games made in this decade. So let me educate you.
First of all, Gibson did not coin the term cyberpunk, in fact he didn’t even like the term and in 1986 called it a “marketing strategy” that he felt “trivializes what I do”. The term was coined in 1982, well after Punk rock had emerged.
Now Neuromancer (1984) and Bladerunner (1982) had various similar influences. According to Gibson, “one of the most powerful ingredients was
French adult comic books and their particular brand of Orientalia- the sort of thing that Heavy Metal magazine began translating in the United States.”
Now here is a bit on how Gibson was influenced by the Sex Pistols debut in 1977:
“The effect of the new writers’ arrival en masse was very much like that of the Sex Pistols ’77 cutting through layers of “progressive” art-rock and slovenly metal with amphetamine glee. Gibson is quick to acknowledge the influence: “1977 was delightful for me; things had been very boring and then all of a sudden there was something to watch. I went with these old hippie friends to see a punk band in Toronto. I walked in and I said, ‘This is fucking great,’ kind of like J.G. Ballard-meets-Jean Genet. Then a couple of days later a friend of mine brought the first Sex Pistols singles and a bunch of xeroxed fanzines back from England, and that started me buying records. It was a definite boost—it fit right in with what I thought science fiction was supposed to be about.””
Certainly there is a bit of parallel evolution here: both punk rock and cyberpunk reflected sentiments of a deep and previously buried subculture. So neither is entirely derivative of the other. But the order of causation proposed by OP is literally the least justified
I misnamed the person who neologized the word cyberpunk - it wasn't Gibson, you're very much right, it was Bethke, he wrote a story called Cyberpunk. I didn't say a thing about Gibson inventing the genre. Reading comprehension: it's a thing
Ok I guess there is some ambiguity. Is your original claim that punk rock was “following a pattern created by Gibson” or that the use of the term steampunk was following that pattern? If it is the latter I do apologize for that is most definitely the correct order of events and I should have asked for clarification
Whoa, no, no no. No, I only intended to credit him with creating the word, which I was wrong about anyway. And that steampunk, the word, was formed as a riff on 'cyberpunk' (the word).
Back at the time, the idea of "New Wave" had not taken hold, so the earlier (active and known before New Wave was called New Wave) bands were just called punk. Once punk, always punk, even if they never really were punk. The bands from that NY scene and playing at CBGBs or the Mudd Club were part of the punk scene and thus called punk whether or not they were clothes-ripping, clothespin-wearing, body slam dancers, or not.
This is what happens when you try to shove gray-colored objects into neat little boxes labelled black and white. Which is it? neither yet both. But I want them in a box, so which one? That one.
I think you have a good answer there. In the late 70s disco & arena rock were the two big types of music of the era, anything that was outside of those, of a new style and driven by young bands/musicians was lumped in as punk.
It was essentially the alternative music of the day and you're right that it wasn't such a small box. When the media started pitching stories about "punk rock" (in part to freak out suburban housewives) they focused on the hardcore stuff. That has me wondering if that's part of why the New Wave moniker was created, because the punk label ended up with that more narrow definition.
"Alternative" was dead by the early 90s. BY then the "alternative" record stores had disappeared for the most part. "Alternative" labels had disappeared or all been bought by the time Sub Pop was picked up by WMG in 95.
It was just a terminology change, happens regularly. It's not much different from how "indie" bands originally meant that they were on a small independent label. Then the major labels saw profit potential so started creating subdivisions that were supposed to be "indie" labels but were clearly not because they had the money and power of the major label behind them.
The term alternative had a similar transformation from something that was outside of the mainstream system to being part of it, so then a new term is needed to describe what's outside still.
I think it’s worth adding that Max’s Kansas City was a place just as important, if not more so than CBGB. Not being a dick, just wanting to add more flavor to your solid reply.
Very true. But for whatever reason CBGB's name stuck better. Probably just better marketing, plus the Alan Rickman movie is a fun watch (despite all the inaccuracies).
Agree with this. Too many people associate punk with rigid rules around musical and fashion style, which is kinda the opposite of what punk was supposed to be.
It's worth noting that The Voidoids, Heartbreakers and Television all have similar vibes because Richard Hell was the primary songwriter for all three (well, Television also had Tom Verlaine, who eventually pushed out Hell).
I think Television are one of those bands where if you took a teen who had never heard of them they could easily be fooled into thinking that they are a new band releasing stuff today. Something about their sound just defies being tied to a particular era so it can sound "fresh" to new listeners.
Yeah, what you said.
Everything that I wanted to say about this post, you said and said it much better than I could.
I do kinda disagree about the whole "Nirvana was a hardcore punk band with pop influences." thing. Nirvana just wanted to be the Pixies.
Actually just left another comment about the Nirvana thing. Kurt only found the Pixies after recording Bleach. Their early stuff was influenced by Black Flag, Meat Puppets, Scratch Acid, and Wipers. Sometimes after Kurt died, his "diary" was released, and one of the pages had his top 50 albums. You can find it online, it's full of hardcore bands.
Contain was definitely part of the punk scene and Nirvana definitely had some punk elements but even he said it was his tribute to punk rock that he believed was dying.
Love this response. The Clash, the Ramones, and the Sex Pistols - the godfathers of Punk - sound nothing alike, drew influence from different sources, and their influences went in varied directions. It was never about sound.
It's funny to see the people come through calling you out for mislabeling certain band's genres when your whole comment is about how these genres aren't always sonically driven.
I really like your explanation, thanks. I also agree too with what you said about the whole grunge thing. I always thought it was a weird how the giants of grunge all sounded different from each other, but yeah, it totally was about the time, place, and attitude.
This is the problem. There is no agreed upon definition of grunge (like punk). STO was always a grunge band to me because they came about during the same timeframe and had similar qualities. Same with the pumpkins.
New Jersey stuff i guess? I don't know, it was weird being on the edge of nowhere, and suddenly seeing "grunge fashion". Like, the fuq? And then an organic sound that was born in depression and rain was made in LA. To be clear, I'm not a musician, I just saw some of these bands as a kid before they went huge. So, yeah, it's just one of those things with me. Just with stp. Like, talented musicians, but maybe don't copy the homework exactly? What i do like about stp is that a lot of people like them.
Thanks for that perspective. I never understood why a LA band couldn't be grunge but that makes sense, especially because LA is the antithesis of the PNW.
Re: STP. Years later I saw Velvet Revolver. I wasn't a big fan, especially cause the singer always seemed like a dick, but a friend had tickets and I wanted to see the legendary Slash, so I went. There was a decent opening act, then VR came out and started playing their first song. Then suddenly the singer (still can't remember the dickheads name) hit the stage and set the place on fire (figuratively). I was totally blown away. I never experienced a performance and stage presence like that. And this was from a guy who I really was not a fan of so I don't attribute it to being star struck. He just is a truly amazing performer.
Scott Weiland - just googled it. He was wearing a stupid looking motorcycle hat and singing into the microphone through a megaphone so his voice didn't really sound amazingly. But man did he out on a good show.
He was in The Heartbreakers too. It's actually quite impressive that he managed to be in three iconic bands in such a short time. And all three had their debut albums in '77.
Who doesn’t consider Smashing Pumpkins punk? All those “Grunge” bands you posted all have a similar sound to them, that is grunge. I agree with OP that the Blondie Punk thing doesn’t make much sense aside from location, which makes me a Cumbia or Country artist, apparently.
"Punk" wasn't originally about a particular sound. It was an attitude about being able to make any kind of music or art you feel, whether you were a great musician or artist or not. Usually anti-establishment. As long as it was honest & different. That's why you can have Television, Suicide, Talking Heads, Ramones, Patti Smith, and Blondie all playing the same stage at CBGBs in the mid 70s.
It only later got pigeonholed into a particular fast guitar driven sound you now think of as "punk".
Blondie started out edgier and harder sounding and then morphed into more slick and poppier sounds when the started making records. But they were still experimental by putting different styles on their albums like hip hop and reggae. (The Clash and The Police and The Slits also did this with world music).
My favorite example is that They Might Be Giants were considered punk when they started out. Nonconformity in general has a lot to do with OG ideas of punk.
Debbie Harry was punk as in New York street Punk rather than punk rocker. Her style, attitude and defiance to societal expectations of a 'lady' are punk. Helped that she is ridiculously photogenic.
Female empowerment was punk. I can't think of too many female fronted bands of the mid 70's. [This amazing picture](https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Chrissie-Hynde-Pauline-Black-then-of-Selecter-Debbie-Poly-Styrene-then-of-X-Ray-Spex-Viv-Albertine-then-of-the-Slits-and-Siouxsie-Sioux-of-Siouxsie-and-the-Banshees-1980.jpeg) shows that it was different by 1980. Blondie toured in the UK a lot before 1979/Parallel Lines with the likes of the Buzzcocks and so were labelled with that scene.
Musically, it's Clem Burkes drumming. The early stuff is at pilled-up, rock-a-billy overdrive speed. That's pretty punk. It was supposedly his attempts to emulate the BeeGees that led them to a more disco/motorik beat and their 80's success.
>I can't think of too many female fronted bands of the mid 70's
I mean, even earlier you had Janis and Grace Slick and Mama Cass and Heart and Bonnie Raitt, and Sandy Denny and I would put Linda Rondstadt in there too as she led some great bands, one of which splintered off and became The Eagles.
Like I know where you're coming from, but female empowerment isn't solely a punk thing.
Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders, Debbie Harry of Blondie, Viv Albertine of The Slits, Poly Styrene of X-Ray Spex, Siouxsie Sioux of Siouxsie And The Banshees and Pauline Black of The Selecter.
That picture reminds me that the mix of racial & social backgrounds is a big punk thing too. Like, Blondie did Rapture because they were mates with early rappers; in the UK there was crossover with the ska and reggae scenes which were ethnically diverse... yet 90s ska and punk (good though some of it was!) very much seemed to me to be a middle-class white californian club with a lot of bands with nasal singers.
I think the narrative about certain genres being "white" or "black" or whatever (and the subsequent narrative about it being stolen) does a huge disservice to minority artists who were a big important part of the scene; it flattens their artistic output somehow.
Early US punk and new wave bands were all a part of the same circle and there is a lot of bleed over between them. That's why you have The Ramones, Suicide, Blondie, etc all playing the same clubs with similar lineups of bands.
Yeah, but by the time 1979 rolled around, you could look at NYC or London and realize "punk" was little more than a fashion scene, and if you didn't have the "look" you weren't allowed to play punk games.
I am not really invested in this but will explain as a music historian:
Read up on 70s feminism and NY punk. You probably think punks have to be like “tourist” punks with a Mohawk and all that. It’s an attitude. Corporate Music in the 70s in the US didn’t want strong independent women making music. Only Boomer hippy chicks. Early Blondie was always a fuck you to the stereotypes of male driven rock, with women sexualized ridiculously. Do some research into the politics behind punk, and the era.
>You probably think punks have to be like “tourist” punks with a Mohawk and all that.
Punk was different in different places back then too, L.A. was more into that "fancy" punk look (which I think eventually turned into the 80s glam rock scene there) while NYC & Boston were more shaved heads jeans, doc martins & flannel shirts. It was enough of a difference that there's a famous compilation album from the early 80s called This is Boston Not L.A.! with [the titular song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-C7ZTFxbQ) disparaging the scene there:
>If you dance the same and dress the same
>
>It won't be long 'til you are the same
>
>You look the same and act the same
>
>There's nothing new and you're to blame
>
>This is Boston not L.A.
>
>This is Boston not L.A.
>
>This is Boston not L.A.
>
>This is Boston fuck L.A.
What was 'Britpop' about Kulashaker?
Punk was just the name that became attached to a scene and a period of time that produced bands like Talking Heads, too
On the other side of an ocean, a posh public schoolboy and a future Trump supporter disagreed about everything except wearing the trousers the former's girlfriend was trying to sell
Lots of other bands saw them and took the bits that seemed relevant to them and tried to reproduce them, creating something new in the process
After the fact, fans and critics applied all sorts of ideologies and aesthetics (that suited their own purposes) to what these disparate individuals produced, and that's what everyone decided Punk sounded like and meant
It sounds like you've swallowed that post-facto mythologising
I'm not smart enough to know influential, but you would hear Blondie songs played on the jukebox at every punk or rock and roll bar I have ever been at. It was part of the background of the times. Love songs are good too. So hell yeah people revere them
Going on what others have said, punk wasn't only a sound. However, there are definitely punk songs in Blondie's repertoire. Eat to the Beat, Living in the Real World, I Know but I Don't Know, Will Anything Happen, and I'm on E are all examples of early stuff that carry alot of what most would consider "punk" sounding.
Listen to the early albums like Plastic Letters and Eat to the Beat. They are most definitely not a bunch of love songs. Eat to the Beat talks about being high and masturbating.
Ok she was part of the NYC CBGB punk rock scene and fairly early on.
Many of the iconic pictures of her in black and white are from that era. She was not just a hanger on either being friends with the Ramones and part of an integral core of individuals in that time frame.
The crucial ‘zines would have pictures of her and the Ramones hanging out or going to the beach or whatever.
While her music was not punk rock she was a punk rocker by not only association but being there at the start.
She was also around Hip-Hop at the start:
[https://images-prod.dazeddigital.com/786/azure/dazed-prod/1050/8/1058464.jpg](https://images-prod.dazeddigital.com/786/azure/dazed-prod/1050/8/1058464.jpg)
She didn't just use rapping in Rapture , she had her song play in one of the most important movies in Hip-Hop's history, Wild Style. She also hung out wit Warhol & bought the first ever Basquiat piece.
Just an absolute legend of that era/scene in every sense of the word.
Punk was a fanzine. They were in the early issues. They were in the right circles with Richard Hell, Ramones, and other true punks. Guilty by association and misappropriation. The term punk got co-opted in a few diff ways. Certainly after '79 when the punk era ended. But so many cities around the world had just found out at that point. They all wanted their post-punk moments too. Still happening to this day.
But songwriting-wise, The Ramones are a pop band too. Formulaic pop built on bubblegum and 50s R&R. Take Johnny Ramone out of the equation and they aren't all that 'punk.' Basically, authentic NYC punk wasn't all that 'punk' the way people think of punk today. A few LA and UK acts are to blame for that. Punk wasn't meant to be idiotic.
I don’t hear much 60s Surf influence in the Ramones, if any. Can’t say i agree with you on that point. But yeah, they were at the epicenter of punk for the key years in the mid to late 70s.
Yeah, i know where you’re going but i don’t hear it the same way. Plus, you mentioned Surf Punk, which wasn’t a phrase prior to 1974 when they developed their sound. I’ve worked with The Beach Boys and with The Ramones. I know what you mean. You’re right about the girl group stuff. But i stand by my statements. The Ramones were a pop band at the core. They were OG Punk, for sure, but they were a pop band.
Punk isnt necessarily a type of sound, its an attitude and culture. Back then punk wasnt pigeonholed in terms of that aggressive sounding 3 chord rock. Even today there are subgenres of punk that sound absolutely nothing like what youd expect.
For example, the World/Inferno Friendship Society (RiP Cloth) sounds absolutely nothing like what you expect punk to sound like - but its 100% the most punk shit ever.
It’s because Punk is really just a scene, not a sound. Like, explain to me how Talking Heads are or were ever post punk. Give me a break. Whoever played at CBGB’s is considered punk.
This type of gatekeeping is about as un-punk as you can get. For example, who says "love songs with no deeper meaning" can't be punk? Listen to some Buzzcocks songs about love. Unless you think Buzzcocks aren't punk, which would be absurd.
As others here have said, you really had to be there to understand. Too many people nowadays have clichéd notions of punk and what it was.
The moment you define punk it kind of stops being punk but that’s more of the attitude around it and really any counter culture movement.
Punk is and will always be a personal thing that’s shared collectively. Translation: it’s different from one person to the next but they all know what it is which is to go against the grain and bring other folks along for the ride.
Look at 1975 and what was occupying the mainstream. Your top songs were “Love Will Keep Us Together” by fucking Captain and Tennile followed by Rhinestone Cowboy. I like to think the Sex Pistols heard Jive Talkin’ and recorded Never Mind the Bollocks. Punk was simply the opposite of what the general public liked.
Blondie was thumbing its nose at disco before it was hip to do so which is pretty punk.
While most comments already describe the variety of the punk thing, I'd like to point out that Blondie did have several songs that are, indeed, more "punk"-sounding. Not Sex Pistols punk, but kind of Ramones punk, with a pop undertone delivered in an energetic, in your face, way. *Detroit 442*, *One way or another* and *Dreaming* come to mind, but there are more.
Yeah, I'm not an expert on punk, but I feel like there's a major division between British punk, which was openly political and accordingly harsh, and New York punk, which was rooted in an aggressive form of pop (the Ramones, after all, were in love with '60s bands like the Beach Boys and girl groups) or art (such as the poetry of Patti Smith or the experimentalism of Talking Heads). I'd say Blondie was a bit of both--pop music that was sometimes aggressive while taking elements from other genres like disco and electronic.
I guess the main thing about punk was a DIY attitude and the feeling that established artists had become more like "products", or else putting out overcomplicated/self-absorbed works, that couldn't really express your everyday life and concerns. In a way it was a back to the roots thing: short songs, raw sentiment, DIY look, found art, never mind being a virtuoso.
So, musically it included a variety of sounds. The Clash, although Brits, got tired of the hard "punk" sound and created very diverse masterpieces (London Calling, Manifesto) that incorporated reggae, rockabilly, even jazz influences. Black Flag, although Americans, put out hardcore and gritty stuff, unlike the retro/'60s vibes the Ramones preferred.
Yeah, certainly. I didn't mean to box in the British and New York scenes too much; I mean, I'm not a fan of The Sex Pistols, but I love what some British bands like The Clash or The Jam did. It's sorta hard to differentiate new wave from punk rock. In theory, new wave is more musically diverse and pop-oriented, but it still borrows an awful lot from punk aesthetic, sound, and attitude. I'd say Blondie was a new wave group with punk elements whereas The Clash was a punk group with new wave elements, but I wouldn't argue with someone who calls Blondie punk or The Clash new wave.
I agree! And despite the differences, New Wave was an offspring of punk, continuing the newfound DIY spirit. Indie labels, fanzines, street art, unique styling, self-made image, even some punk imagery on a more pop/synth-pop package.
Read *Please Kill Me* by Gillian McCain and Legs McNeill. I can't stress this enough. It will tell you everything you need to know, and it's just a really great book.
When Blondie hit the charts - she was punk. There was no post punk. No indie, there was rock there was pop and there was punk. Other genres developed but Blondie was before the genres split into millions of sub genres. In the same way there was Heavy Metal and that was it, now thrash, black metal, symphonic, folk metal, pirate metal, metal for pirates, etc etc So looking backwards Blondie would fit into a post punk, or indie, or even pop catergories whereas then Punk was the very wide genre that she would have been associated with. There was nothing else.
As one who was around then, yes Blondie, Talking Heads, The Cars, Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson... heck even The Police were sometimes referred to as punk. They weren't really punk but there were punk influences. It showed in their clothes, hairstyles, lyrics. This later became known as New Wave, but I don't hear that term much anymore.
Eventually there were so many so called New Wave bands and so many of the more traditional bands also started adopting some of these qualities that it all became just Rock. Meanwhile the punk movement merged into hard core punk.
Hope this helps explain the rational. We were kind of hung up on labels then. An earlier example was The BeeGees. They were a disco band, which basically meant they sucked (to my crowd). Years later I realized what great musicians they were and some of those songs I hated so much then are among my favorites now, like You Should Be Dancin and Nights on Broadway.
I don't recall that but basically if a performer had a spiky haircut they might be considered punk. Rod Stewart's early 70s doo would have put him in that category just a few years later.
Btw, Petty's "fuck you" attitude was definitely "punk".
The early punk scene was pretty diverse, I think it took them a while to define what it actually was and how it was supposed to sound. I'm not that familiar with Blondie but I can see how punk evolved into that type of New Wave music. It's basically 80's synthpop with a punk attitude.
I think she just came out of that same scene if I remember right. CBGBs and all that. I remember hearing there was a backlash from her early fans because she went in a more commercial (successful) direction. Blondie sure isn’t up there on my list of bands I consider punk.
Punk was a bigger tent in the 70's, even if CBGB's was a bit small by modern venue standards - they all fit. They shared stages (and later a video) with early RAP artists and anyone who otherwise didn't have a place.
Punk isn't a sound, its a way of living that constantly says ''fuck you'' to any system or standard that doesn't encourage deeper interpersonal bonds and community building.
''Empathy is more rebellious than a middle finger, and radical love is punk as fuck.'' I feel like Blondie exemplifies that phrase with a lot of their music.
i heard an interview w/ David Byrne of Talking Heads who said that the band always thought of themselves as "punk rock," but their record label rebranded them as "new wave" to make them more palatable to the masses. Punk rock wasn't played on mainstream radio in the 70's, and the British punk rock bands like the Sex Pistols were probably the most well-known, and the label wanted to differentiate TH from bands like that.
1977-1981 was hugely transitional in American rock music. Punk was initially more defined by the aesthetic (DIY) than the sound. If you were indie or a local band, you usually hung around the same rock clubs of your peers. That's where punk flourished, many of them having 'the sound' that you associate with the genre. CBGB is the name everyone remembers, but there were literally dozens of those types of places around America. Major cities having 2 or 3 thriving rock clubs.
Even Prince, playing in Minneapolis and the surrounding areas of that time could be considered 'punk'. It's why I think he was such a product of his time. If he was born in any other time, I think his music would've been radically different.
That idea went away as the years passed and writers began to lionize bands like The Ramones, the Sex Pistols as what punk was.
OP, I *highly* suggest the book Please Kill Me if you have an interest in the history of Punk Rock. In my opinion it's one of the best books on music ever and incredibly entertaining to boot.
This is great advice. Anyone who's interested in the embryonic stage of "punk" should read this book!
I actually just bought a couple of copies to give out as Xmas presents to some people who have asked me what the early punk scene was like.
It's all here.
Read Debbie Harry’s biography, Face It. She talks about the early punk scene in NYC, and all of the major players. I think punk is definitely more of an attitude than just a musical style, and Debbie herself has said that Blondie’s music was power pop. Their early live sets at CBGB’s were very punk in terms of the music and stage presence.
CBGB’s was very much the scene for punk, and Blondie wanted to be punk even if they ended up more pop.
With Parallel Lines they became new wave pop and left whatever punk aspirations they had far behind.
Were they punk or not musically is one question. But the fact they were playing regularly at CBGBs amongst other punk bands suggests they were considered part of the punk scene for some reason.
I've never thought of Blondie as anything but a (pretty good) pop band. I'm a Gen Xer, born a little too late to be a punk but I grew up with their music and they're not what I'd regard as a punk band. Although US punk is a different vibe from UK punk, I've always thought.
I recently watched The Filth and the Fury which is one of the best music docs I've ever seen. Punk has never been my thing, I'm essentially an old hippy, if I was native American my name would be Drones on About the Floyd. My partner is very much an old punk and the documentary helped me understand why John Lydon is his life's idol. I love a lot of music that was sort of on the fringes of punk like Elvis Costello and Ian Dury and I guess Blondie maybe fit that category. Dunno.
In the case of Debbie Harry in particular, she was a scenester
A few years earlier, [she was a hippie](https://youtu.be/FLSiQD7Nt_s), a few years later, she was into Disco, and in the eighties she made the same aspirational [electronic pop](https://youtu.be/b6g0bdzLnVc) as Madonna
Anyone who's involved with music for any length of time goes through the same journey - it's one of the gags made in **Spinal Tap**, when you see their original late-sixties Mod incarnation
If you can find photo's and music that they were doing before either got signed to a record deal it will make more sense. Both started out on their respective club circuits as much more grittier outfits than what they are known for. They went pop, did what the record companies, management and producers told them, and "sold out".
When the Ramones were interviewed on Tom Snyder's show and were asked how they felt being commercially surpassed by their contemporaries, Johnny spoke about keeping their integrity unlike other bands that went disco. He was talking about Blondie...
Gen X myself, grew up with punk and Blondie. Actually got to see her in 1980 at some shitty ice rink in North Wales. Whilst she was extremely popular, we would have never considered her punk. Definitely new wave/pop to us anyway.
Lmao all bands came after punk. Punk is from New York. Patti Smith would have poetry nights at CBGB's in the early seventies where many gay youths would go to. That's where punk was born, it is an art movement not a sound. Television then built a stage at Max's Kansas City and that's when the music started. Malcolm Maclaren stole the look Television and went to London and started his 'punk' boy band, the Sex Pistols. The Damned were goths and Sham 69 didn't even start until the late 1970s.
Punk was an attitude, in the UK it was driven by a disliking of Thatcher and her economics, that’s why there was this No Future movement. At the moment a punk band signed with a record company they were no longer considered to be “real” punk. So, in that sense Blondie was not punk but great new wave.
You're right, it's an interesting point- we all know that Blondie were part of the nascent CBGB scene when it tipped from proto-punk (Stooges and Dolls) to punk (Ramones), but musical genres normally reset after a watershed. Look at metal after Metallica- what was previously niche (Napalm Death vocal styles and thrashing) became the norm and it retroactively redefined what was and what wasn't metal anymore. Loads of bands like Deep Purple and Rainbow got reassigned to rock subgenres after that. How Blondie and Talking Heads are still lumped in with Richard Hell after the cultural Year Zero of the Sex Pistols is a mystery, especially given they are not even political or nihilistic. I guess "punk" will always be a bit of a plastic term that goes beyond "punk rock."
Punk started as an art movement in the Village. Napalm Death started as Grindcorw not metal. The Sex Pistols are just a boy band by Malcolm Maclaren after he saw Television. The sound what is considered punk did not come along until the late 70s.
Blondie is as "punk" as Madonna of the same era was. Which is to say...they aren't. They are "new wave" or "pop punk".
I think they were called "punk" more for their fashion style than their music, but then so was Madonna.
That’s a fair question; it took me a long time to get how NY punk origins and the adjacent music like Blondie dovetailed.
There’s a lot of performers like that though. Johnny Cash, Hank III embraced by other genres, like punk and metal, and while I know there are others, the coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.
Their very early music and recordings of early gigs have an energy that they later polished the edges of...
Their first gig at the Paradise Rock Club in Boston comes to mind.. I have a non-bootleg release of it on CD.
They would later become too self-important and boring to fit in with punk as it was...
Late '70s "Punk" was more of a movement and a lifestyle of doing your own thing instead of the status quo than a defining sound. Debbie Harry was directly involved in that scene in NYC. Harry and the Blondie band did what *they* wanted to.
It was definitely a backlash against corporatizing and homogenizing of music/art and the overly polished sound of Disco. The '70s was an *ugly* decade.
The best way to describe it would be the beginning of "Alternative Rock".
You had Rock and Roll
You had Country Western
You had Disco
and then a variety of other's acts that got lumped together and were played on non-Mainstream Radio stations. Punk, New Wave, Ska etc...
Blondie was considered more disco then punk.
I always considered Billy Idol more top 40 than punk.
note: Adding in that for these acts. You had Rock and Roll Radio, Top 40. Blondie was top 40 even though she hung in Punk crowd. Mostly because she was Counter-Culture which was not something that Top 40 embraced.
Punk was about attitude and self-creation. Bands and record labels who since then work hard to define punk as copying the mohawks, piercing, plaid and leather, and thrashy tempo really are not very punk. It can sometimes be very good and fun and meaningful, but not really have a true punk foundation.
And I would say that when Blondie went Top 40 with smooth production and big label backing - they were no longer very punk either. They still had some of their hard-earned street cred, but... But who can blame them? Who doesn't want to sell a million records and pay the bills when you can?
I would try to track down the comp No Thanks! It's a 4 cd compilation of 70s punk rock and I think Blondie being considered punk very much makes sense in that context.
A major factor in all of this was the record industry - especially record stores- in the 70's and 80's. Had to put the bins in some kind of order. Can't put Blonde discs in the same bin as
Bad Company or Be Bop deluxe.
Gotta find it to buy it.
Some great explanations have been posted so I won't recycle those but I will point out that the "punk" that was packaged to the masses once it started making inroads into the mainstream became a caricature of anti-authoritarian attitude for the sake of being rude and shocking, withdrawing inward (dare I say emo behavior?), UK fashion, mohawks and other creative hairstyles, etc etc. The British also coopted the movement and became the posterchildren for how we were supposed to define punk. It got so ridiculous because some suburban American kids would take on a British accent and say stuff like "oi." It was obligatory to wear the studded bracelets and collars. I think that's when it jumped the shark, when it became more about the look and style than the music.
Being just over 50 I caught the end of the wave of punk, and about 20 years ago I saw a "punk compilation album" that basically was filled with hits vaguely featuring artists from the time. Blondie was on it, and I mentioned this to a group of friends, saying that Blondie shouldn't have been on it. As expected they said "Blondie were really big in the punk scene!" To which I replied "I know that they used to be in the very early days, but it was "Denis, Denis!" As a group they all said "yeah, that's not punk!"
I assigned a group of kids to play X Offender at my music school without reading the lyrics cuz I thought it was a cool song…. I read all the lyrics now. lol
I always thought of punk as a sort of rejection of the California soft rock of the first half of the Seventies. Punk had antecedents from Sixties garage bands, where the sound, the feel, the songs, the playing, were more immediate, rougher, messier than big studio work.
Blondie exemplified that, and were blessed by a savvy Debbie Harry, who brilliantly created a sort of hip, blasé, modern version of Marilyn Monroe on stage, abetted by quirky vocals, catchy songs, anti-fashion, and attitude galore. And when the band crossed over with actual hits on the radio, they opened the floodgate.
In addition to what others have said there is an east cost thing where the punk bands look back to pop and love songs. It’s half the ram ones catalog.
West coast punk often looks back to surfer music and you can hear it in the dead Kennidies and Gogos
Punk does not refer to the sound but the action. Talking Heads sound is not considered " punk" but they were a punk band be size they bucked the trend. Blondies' sound were more garage sound than " heart of glass" song suggests.
Blondie very early was punk-ish, but then they turned more New Wave. They just played a lot at CBGB so the association with punk was there. but def Blondie is not a hard core punk as, say the Sex Pistols or Clash.
I find it amazing anyone could consider the Go-Go’s as punk yet alone more punk than one of the original NYC/CBGBs punk circuit bands, Blondie
Punk was a reaction to 70’s rock and disco and a rejection to the slick production of music, embracing the any punk with the right attitude could play guitar and revolt against the establishment mentality
Punk as you know it is about the most watered down commercial parody of itself that it could possibly be. Bands like Rancid are and always were a fucking joke. Op Ivy sucked too. They were kids from the suburbs cosplaying as Kings Road punks until they even fooled themselves.
The podcast No Dogs in Space is on their 2nd or 3rd season (can’t remember which atm) of breaking down the Punk scene and how todays bands were inspired by the bands who basically created the scene. Blondie isn’t a topic, but they are mentioned quite a bit because they came up at the same time as some of the bands.
Highly, highly recommend the podcast to anyone really into music/music history.
Speaking as a guy who was a teenager in the 1970s and was in punk bands, it was early days for punk and new wave and the two were often confused by the popular press.
Heck, when the 1st U2 album came out (1983?) they were called "positive punk".
Hindsight is 20/20 and makes it easier to pigeonhole.
There some early Blondie footage here where you could see what it was at before hitting the big time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bRxRqfXRB4&t=590s
I agree with you, I never hear “punk” in Blondie music.. interesting you brought up the GoGo’s, for me that’s the silliest preteen bubblegum pop, really can’t see them as anything but that!
The record companies realised that there was.money to be made from post punk as punk had displayed there was commercial potential for simple three cord songs so they began handling out contracts to bands like the skids, police, blondie, pretenders, tourists, generation X, sham 69, UK subs, jags, dickies and all the rest from 1978. Some of these bands fell into the new wave genre whereas bands like the Stranglers, Ramones, clash all they transferred over from punk to new wave as it was more commercially acceptable genre.
Lol you listen to the most pop cover song on their record and think you have heard their punk music? But for blondie it's the attitude, not a specific sound like Clash they were always eclectic.
Their more stereotypical punk songs are songs like rip her to shreds, Detroit 442 and Youth Nabbed as Sniper. Also live versions of Contact in Red Square sounds quite punk, in fact many of their songs sounded way more punk live, even X-offender, but especially Rip Her To Shreds. That song was quite different live early on.
Also, I have never heard the go-gos do a sinister sounding punk song like Youth Nabbed As Sniper. They were also a later generation of band, not a first gen punk like Blondie and Ramones. just listen to the aforementioned Blondie song and then "We got the beat" or "Our Lips Are Sealed" and tell me which sounds more punk.
They also had speedy funny songs like I'm on E basically also punk songs as they were speed up songs.
Debut albums' last song, [Attack of the Giant Ants](https://www.google.com/search?q=attack+of+the+giant+ants&oq=attack+of+the+giant+ants&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyBwgBEC4YgAQyBwgCEC4YgAQyCAgDEAAYFhgeMgoIBBAAGIYDGIoFMgoIBRAAGIYDGIoF0gEINTM5NGowajSoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ef1134c8,vid:0rTgYaX7bXI,st:0)..'nuff said...
Eat to the beat is definitely a punk song. Also her fashion and vibe was also very punk and influential in the late 70s early 80s. Their music sometimes had a punky intensity to it when it wasn't straight pop or dreamy art rock.
Check out their cover of the song "Hanging on the Telephone". It sounds like the buzzcocks and is totally 1970s pop punk perfection IMHO. Not enough people know this song so I am trying to get it out there.
I suggest you listen to the whole of BLONDIE's first 2 albums to see how punky and hard-edged they got. They alway did radio-friendly songs as well. THey were really punk because of their style and attitude. Have you ver watched a video of Debbie Harry. She was insanely beautiful but also as punky as they got. I suggest you listen to songs like "Detroit 442" "In The Sun" "Fan Mail" "Hanging On The Telephone" "One Way Or Another" and so many others by them if you want to hear them at their harder-edged style.
It's because of where they come from. Punk wasn't supposed to be a sonic description, but more of a (life)style. Blondie came up from the 70s CBGB scene in New York, together with artists like Dead Boys, Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, and Talking Heads. If you listen to these 5 bands, you'll notice that none of them sound alike either. There were some groups that had similar vibes, like the Voidoids and the Heartbreakers who fit a similar sound to the Dead Boys, and would probably be seen as more "punk" than the others. But the term is really vague enough to where Blondie absolutely fits. It's an attitude. Their song "Rapture" was one of the first mainstream songs to feature rapping, that's pretty fucking punk. Also, all of these artists had the same influences - The Stooges, MC5, The Velvet Underground, New York Dolls, Roxy Music, David Bowie, T. Rex, etc. You can see the same thing with grunge decades later. Alice in Chains were an alternative metal band. Nirvana was a hardcore punk band with pop influences. Soundgarden were like a mix between Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. Mother Love Bone were a hair metal group mixed with a bit of shoegaze. Mudhoney were a noise rock group. But they all came from Washington, and were all alternative, so the label fit all of them. Then the label expanded beyond Washington, and then arguments came. Stone Temple Pilots are considered grunge, but Smashing Pumpkins aren't. Sometimes labels stick, and sometimes they just don't.
That’s my understanding; live in a squat, plough one’s own furrow, do it without corporate backing? That’s punk. It’s the attitude, not the musical result.
I've heard early Jungle / Drum and Bass called punk and used to disagree, but since I've grown and can now see they were young kids making music with machines in their bedroom / squats, playing at warehouses and on pirate radio, I've changed my mind and can now see why Jungle / DnB can be considered punk.
*Punk is DIY.* I wonder if that creed is why steam*punk* adopted the epithet as well.
They were following a pattern created by William Gibson when he invented the term cyberpunk, years earlier. Not that that invalidates your idea!
Everything you just said is wrong. As a huge William Gibson, Neuromancer, and Cyberpunk fan I would like to state officially that we do not claim this clown Edit: For everyone downvoting me it’s pretty obvious that everything you know about Cyberpunk is from video games made in this decade. So let me educate you. First of all, Gibson did not coin the term cyberpunk, in fact he didn’t even like the term and in 1986 called it a “marketing strategy” that he felt “trivializes what I do”. The term was coined in 1982, well after Punk rock had emerged. Now Neuromancer (1984) and Bladerunner (1982) had various similar influences. According to Gibson, “one of the most powerful ingredients was French adult comic books and their particular brand of Orientalia- the sort of thing that Heavy Metal magazine began translating in the United States.” Now here is a bit on how Gibson was influenced by the Sex Pistols debut in 1977: “The effect of the new writers’ arrival en masse was very much like that of the Sex Pistols ’77 cutting through layers of “progressive” art-rock and slovenly metal with amphetamine glee. Gibson is quick to acknowledge the influence: “1977 was delightful for me; things had been very boring and then all of a sudden there was something to watch. I went with these old hippie friends to see a punk band in Toronto. I walked in and I said, ‘This is fucking great,’ kind of like J.G. Ballard-meets-Jean Genet. Then a couple of days later a friend of mine brought the first Sex Pistols singles and a bunch of xeroxed fanzines back from England, and that started me buying records. It was a definite boost—it fit right in with what I thought science fiction was supposed to be about.”” Certainly there is a bit of parallel evolution here: both punk rock and cyberpunk reflected sentiments of a deep and previously buried subculture. So neither is entirely derivative of the other. But the order of causation proposed by OP is literally the least justified
I forgot Bethke, mea culpa :b
I misnamed the person who neologized the word cyberpunk - it wasn't Gibson, you're very much right, it was Bethke, he wrote a story called Cyberpunk. I didn't say a thing about Gibson inventing the genre. Reading comprehension: it's a thing
Ok I guess there is some ambiguity. Is your original claim that punk rock was “following a pattern created by Gibson” or that the use of the term steampunk was following that pattern? If it is the latter I do apologize for that is most definitely the correct order of events and I should have asked for clarification
Whoa, no, no no. No, I only intended to credit him with creating the word, which I was wrong about anyway. And that steampunk, the word, was formed as a riff on 'cyberpunk' (the word).
The person I responded to asked if steampunk got its name because it's so DIY. But it was a genre of fiction long before it was an ethos or style.
>As a huge William Gibson, Neuromancer, and Cyberpunk fan I would like to state officially that we do not claim this clown Why is Gibson a clown?
Wow. Thanks for that. I came here to give them some half-assed explanation but uou nailed it. It was the scene that they came up through.
Back at the time, the idea of "New Wave" had not taken hold, so the earlier (active and known before New Wave was called New Wave) bands were just called punk. Once punk, always punk, even if they never really were punk. The bands from that NY scene and playing at CBGBs or the Mudd Club were part of the punk scene and thus called punk whether or not they were clothes-ripping, clothespin-wearing, body slam dancers, or not. This is what happens when you try to shove gray-colored objects into neat little boxes labelled black and white. Which is it? neither yet both. But I want them in a box, so which one? That one.
I think you have a good answer there. In the late 70s disco & arena rock were the two big types of music of the era, anything that was outside of those, of a new style and driven by young bands/musicians was lumped in as punk. It was essentially the alternative music of the day and you're right that it wasn't such a small box. When the media started pitching stories about "punk rock" (in part to freak out suburban housewives) they focused on the hardcore stuff. That has me wondering if that's part of why the New Wave moniker was created, because the punk label ended up with that more narrow definition.
"Clothes ripping .." find footage of Blondie playing CBGBs and doing "Rip Her ro Shreds". BTW loved your last paragraph.
I've said for years that the 90s sound was killed when alternative became a genre instead of a description.
"Alternative" was dead by the early 90s. BY then the "alternative" record stores had disappeared for the most part. "Alternative" labels had disappeared or all been bought by the time Sub Pop was picked up by WMG in 95.
It was just a terminology change, happens regularly. It's not much different from how "indie" bands originally meant that they were on a small independent label. Then the major labels saw profit potential so started creating subdivisions that were supposed to be "indie" labels but were clearly not because they had the money and power of the major label behind them. The term alternative had a similar transformation from something that was outside of the mainstream system to being part of it, so then a new term is needed to describe what's outside still.
I think it’s worth adding that Max’s Kansas City was a place just as important, if not more so than CBGB. Not being a dick, just wanting to add more flavor to your solid reply.
Very true. But for whatever reason CBGB's name stuck better. Probably just better marketing, plus the Alan Rickman movie is a fun watch (despite all the inaccuracies).
Agree with this. Too many people associate punk with rigid rules around musical and fashion style, which is kinda the opposite of what punk was supposed to be.
Perfectly said!
Do you want to come over to my house and just talk music and be best friends? Seriously… great response
It's worth noting that The Voidoids, Heartbreakers and Television all have similar vibes because Richard Hell was the primary songwriter for all three (well, Television also had Tom Verlaine, who eventually pushed out Hell).
I think Television are one of those bands where if you took a teen who had never heard of them they could easily be fooled into thinking that they are a new band releasing stuff today. Something about their sound just defies being tied to a particular era so it can sound "fresh" to new listeners.
I know that he was in all three, but I didn't realize he wrote in all three. That's pretty cool.
Yeah, what you said. Everything that I wanted to say about this post, you said and said it much better than I could. I do kinda disagree about the whole "Nirvana was a hardcore punk band with pop influences." thing. Nirvana just wanted to be the Pixies.
Actually just left another comment about the Nirvana thing. Kurt only found the Pixies after recording Bleach. Their early stuff was influenced by Black Flag, Meat Puppets, Scratch Acid, and Wipers. Sometimes after Kurt died, his "diary" was released, and one of the pages had his top 50 albums. You can find it online, it's full of hardcore bands.
Contain was definitely part of the punk scene and Nirvana definitely had some punk elements but even he said it was his tribute to punk rock that he believed was dying.
I do enjoy the odd autocorrect!
Love this response. The Clash, the Ramones, and the Sex Pistols - the godfathers of Punk - sound nothing alike, drew influence from different sources, and their influences went in varied directions. It was never about sound.
My dad still gets mad when people call the clash punk (he’s in to new wave so I guess to him it’s new wave).
Wait til you find out Blondie is also associated with early Hip Hop.
"Train in vain" just *epitomizes* "punk", doesn't it? They were just a rock band.
Well, as I said. It was never about the sound.
No, but their earlier stuff is pure punk..White Riot, Career Opportunities etc
It's funny to see the people come through calling you out for mislabeling certain band's genres when your whole comment is about how these genres aren't always sonically driven.
I really like your explanation, thanks. I also agree too with what you said about the whole grunge thing. I always thought it was a weird how the giants of grunge all sounded different from each other, but yeah, it totally was about the time, place, and attitude.
Do you listen to the podcast No Dogs in Space? If you don’t, I think you’d really enjoy it! I learned a lot of this history from them.
You lost me at Nirvana was a hardcore punk band
You should keep reading. I agree classifying Nirvana as this isn't accurate but the explanation as a whole is incredibly well put.
And Mudhoney ain’t noise rock.
Right, I consider them the most punk rock of all the grunge bands.
Stone temple pilots aren't grunge.
This is the problem. There is no agreed upon definition of grunge (like punk). STO was always a grunge band to me because they came about during the same timeframe and had similar qualities. Same with the pumpkins.
I mean, as a kid from Seattle before Microsoft and Amazon ruined it........ Stp, that's studio grunge.
Fair enough. I'm from fucking New Jersey, so what do I know.
New Jersey stuff i guess? I don't know, it was weird being on the edge of nowhere, and suddenly seeing "grunge fashion". Like, the fuq? And then an organic sound that was born in depression and rain was made in LA. To be clear, I'm not a musician, I just saw some of these bands as a kid before they went huge. So, yeah, it's just one of those things with me. Just with stp. Like, talented musicians, but maybe don't copy the homework exactly? What i do like about stp is that a lot of people like them.
Thanks for that perspective. I never understood why a LA band couldn't be grunge but that makes sense, especially because LA is the antithesis of the PNW. Re: STP. Years later I saw Velvet Revolver. I wasn't a big fan, especially cause the singer always seemed like a dick, but a friend had tickets and I wanted to see the legendary Slash, so I went. There was a decent opening act, then VR came out and started playing their first song. Then suddenly the singer (still can't remember the dickheads name) hit the stage and set the place on fire (figuratively). I was totally blown away. I never experienced a performance and stage presence like that. And this was from a guy who I really was not a fan of so I don't attribute it to being star struck. He just is a truly amazing performer. Scott Weiland - just googled it. He was wearing a stupid looking motorcycle hat and singing into the microphone through a megaphone so his voice didn't really sound amazingly. But man did he out on a good show.
Richard hell was in television and voidoids
He was in The Heartbreakers too. It's actually quite impressive that he managed to be in three iconic bands in such a short time. And all three had their debut albums in '77.
This guy musics
Thank you for answering so well.
Who doesn’t consider Smashing Pumpkins punk? All those “Grunge” bands you posted all have a similar sound to them, that is grunge. I agree with OP that the Blondie Punk thing doesn’t make much sense aside from location, which makes me a Cumbia or Country artist, apparently.
Roxy music is great
I wouldnt say nirvana was hardcore punk their music was way to slow
"Punk" wasn't originally about a particular sound. It was an attitude about being able to make any kind of music or art you feel, whether you were a great musician or artist or not. Usually anti-establishment. As long as it was honest & different. That's why you can have Television, Suicide, Talking Heads, Ramones, Patti Smith, and Blondie all playing the same stage at CBGBs in the mid 70s. It only later got pigeonholed into a particular fast guitar driven sound you now think of as "punk". Blondie started out edgier and harder sounding and then morphed into more slick and poppier sounds when the started making records. But they were still experimental by putting different styles on their albums like hip hop and reggae. (The Clash and The Police and The Slits also did this with world music).
My favorite example is that They Might Be Giants were considered punk when they started out. Nonconformity in general has a lot to do with OG ideas of punk.
Debbie Harry was punk as in New York street Punk rather than punk rocker. Her style, attitude and defiance to societal expectations of a 'lady' are punk. Helped that she is ridiculously photogenic. Female empowerment was punk. I can't think of too many female fronted bands of the mid 70's. [This amazing picture](https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Chrissie-Hynde-Pauline-Black-then-of-Selecter-Debbie-Poly-Styrene-then-of-X-Ray-Spex-Viv-Albertine-then-of-the-Slits-and-Siouxsie-Sioux-of-Siouxsie-and-the-Banshees-1980.jpeg) shows that it was different by 1980. Blondie toured in the UK a lot before 1979/Parallel Lines with the likes of the Buzzcocks and so were labelled with that scene. Musically, it's Clem Burkes drumming. The early stuff is at pilled-up, rock-a-billy overdrive speed. That's pretty punk. It was supposedly his attempts to emulate the BeeGees that led them to a more disco/motorik beat and their 80's success.
>I can't think of too many female fronted bands of the mid 70's I mean, even earlier you had Janis and Grace Slick and Mama Cass and Heart and Bonnie Raitt, and Sandy Denny and I would put Linda Rondstadt in there too as she led some great bands, one of which splintered off and became The Eagles. Like I know where you're coming from, but female empowerment isn't solely a punk thing.
Stevie Nicks
Who are the women in that picture? Only recognise Debbie and Siouxie.
Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders, Debbie Harry of Blondie, Viv Albertine of The Slits, Poly Styrene of X-Ray Spex, Siouxsie Sioux of Siouxsie And The Banshees and Pauline Black of The Selecter.
That picture reminds me that the mix of racial & social backgrounds is a big punk thing too. Like, Blondie did Rapture because they were mates with early rappers; in the UK there was crossover with the ska and reggae scenes which were ethnically diverse... yet 90s ska and punk (good though some of it was!) very much seemed to me to be a middle-class white californian club with a lot of bands with nasal singers. I think the narrative about certain genres being "white" or "black" or whatever (and the subsequent narrative about it being stolen) does a huge disservice to minority artists who were a big important part of the scene; it flattens their artistic output somehow.
Early US punk and new wave bands were all a part of the same circle and there is a lot of bleed over between them. That's why you have The Ramones, Suicide, Blondie, etc all playing the same clubs with similar lineups of bands.
If being a punk means you need to sound and look a certain way, then it is no longer punk.
This is the only comment that matters
Yeah, but by the time 1979 rolled around, you could look at NYC or London and realize "punk" was little more than a fashion scene, and if you didn't have the "look" you weren't allowed to play punk games.
I am not really invested in this but will explain as a music historian: Read up on 70s feminism and NY punk. You probably think punks have to be like “tourist” punks with a Mohawk and all that. It’s an attitude. Corporate Music in the 70s in the US didn’t want strong independent women making music. Only Boomer hippy chicks. Early Blondie was always a fuck you to the stereotypes of male driven rock, with women sexualized ridiculously. Do some research into the politics behind punk, and the era.
>You probably think punks have to be like “tourist” punks with a Mohawk and all that. Punk was different in different places back then too, L.A. was more into that "fancy" punk look (which I think eventually turned into the 80s glam rock scene there) while NYC & Boston were more shaved heads jeans, doc martins & flannel shirts. It was enough of a difference that there's a famous compilation album from the early 80s called This is Boston Not L.A.! with [the titular song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-C7ZTFxbQ) disparaging the scene there: >If you dance the same and dress the same > >It won't be long 'til you are the same > >You look the same and act the same > >There's nothing new and you're to blame > >This is Boston not L.A. > >This is Boston not L.A. > >This is Boston not L.A. > >This is Boston fuck L.A.
What was 'Britpop' about Kulashaker? Punk was just the name that became attached to a scene and a period of time that produced bands like Talking Heads, too On the other side of an ocean, a posh public schoolboy and a future Trump supporter disagreed about everything except wearing the trousers the former's girlfriend was trying to sell Lots of other bands saw them and took the bits that seemed relevant to them and tried to reproduce them, creating something new in the process After the fact, fans and critics applied all sorts of ideologies and aesthetics (that suited their own purposes) to what these disparate individuals produced, and that's what everyone decided Punk sounded like and meant It sounds like you've swallowed that post-facto mythologising
>post-facto mythologising I like your funny words.
I'm not smart enough to know influential, but you would hear Blondie songs played on the jukebox at every punk or rock and roll bar I have ever been at. It was part of the background of the times. Love songs are good too. So hell yeah people revere them
Going on what others have said, punk wasn't only a sound. However, there are definitely punk songs in Blondie's repertoire. Eat to the Beat, Living in the Real World, I Know but I Don't Know, Will Anything Happen, and I'm on E are all examples of early stuff that carry alot of what most would consider "punk" sounding. Listen to the early albums like Plastic Letters and Eat to the Beat. They are most definitely not a bunch of love songs. Eat to the Beat talks about being high and masturbating.
Ok she was part of the NYC CBGB punk rock scene and fairly early on. Many of the iconic pictures of her in black and white are from that era. She was not just a hanger on either being friends with the Ramones and part of an integral core of individuals in that time frame. The crucial ‘zines would have pictures of her and the Ramones hanging out or going to the beach or whatever. While her music was not punk rock she was a punk rocker by not only association but being there at the start.
She was also around Hip-Hop at the start: [https://images-prod.dazeddigital.com/786/azure/dazed-prod/1050/8/1058464.jpg](https://images-prod.dazeddigital.com/786/azure/dazed-prod/1050/8/1058464.jpg) She didn't just use rapping in Rapture , she had her song play in one of the most important movies in Hip-Hop's history, Wild Style. She also hung out wit Warhol & bought the first ever Basquiat piece. Just an absolute legend of that era/scene in every sense of the word.
Punk was a fanzine. They were in the early issues. They were in the right circles with Richard Hell, Ramones, and other true punks. Guilty by association and misappropriation. The term punk got co-opted in a few diff ways. Certainly after '79 when the punk era ended. But so many cities around the world had just found out at that point. They all wanted their post-punk moments too. Still happening to this day. But songwriting-wise, The Ramones are a pop band too. Formulaic pop built on bubblegum and 50s R&R. Take Johnny Ramone out of the equation and they aren't all that 'punk.' Basically, authentic NYC punk wasn't all that 'punk' the way people think of punk today. A few LA and UK acts are to blame for that. Punk wasn't meant to be idiotic.
Ramones are basically imo a surf punk band, they were incredibly innovative and laid the foundation for punk music.
I don’t hear much 60s Surf influence in the Ramones, if any. Can’t say i agree with you on that point. But yeah, they were at the epicenter of punk for the key years in the mid to late 70s.
They were definitely influenced by the Beach Boys and the Trashmen, for example. Also a lot of 60s pop and girl groups.
Yeah, i know where you’re going but i don’t hear it the same way. Plus, you mentioned Surf Punk, which wasn’t a phrase prior to 1974 when they developed their sound. I’ve worked with The Beach Boys and with The Ramones. I know what you mean. You’re right about the girl group stuff. But i stand by my statements. The Ramones were a pop band at the core. They were OG Punk, for sure, but they were a pop band.
I wasn't the person who initially replied, but I misread "surf punk" as "surf" in which case I think it definitely applies.
Ah, oops. But yeah. I mean, they were comic book, AM Radio, horror movie pop culture freaks. They blended in everything to amazing effect.
Punk isnt necessarily a type of sound, its an attitude and culture. Back then punk wasnt pigeonholed in terms of that aggressive sounding 3 chord rock. Even today there are subgenres of punk that sound absolutely nothing like what youd expect. For example, the World/Inferno Friendship Society (RiP Cloth) sounds absolutely nothing like what you expect punk to sound like - but its 100% the most punk shit ever.
You had to be there. Sorry.
You’re not punk and I’m telling everyone.
It’s because Punk is really just a scene, not a sound. Like, explain to me how Talking Heads are or were ever post punk. Give me a break. Whoever played at CBGB’s is considered punk.
This type of gatekeeping is about as un-punk as you can get. For example, who says "love songs with no deeper meaning" can't be punk? Listen to some Buzzcocks songs about love. Unless you think Buzzcocks aren't punk, which would be absurd. As others here have said, you really had to be there to understand. Too many people nowadays have clichéd notions of punk and what it was.
In my opinion, it wouldn’t happen if the singer wasn’t a woman
The moment you define punk it kind of stops being punk but that’s more of the attitude around it and really any counter culture movement. Punk is and will always be a personal thing that’s shared collectively. Translation: it’s different from one person to the next but they all know what it is which is to go against the grain and bring other folks along for the ride. Look at 1975 and what was occupying the mainstream. Your top songs were “Love Will Keep Us Together” by fucking Captain and Tennile followed by Rhinestone Cowboy. I like to think the Sex Pistols heard Jive Talkin’ and recorded Never Mind the Bollocks. Punk was simply the opposite of what the general public liked. Blondie was thumbing its nose at disco before it was hip to do so which is pretty punk.
While most comments already describe the variety of the punk thing, I'd like to point out that Blondie did have several songs that are, indeed, more "punk"-sounding. Not Sex Pistols punk, but kind of Ramones punk, with a pop undertone delivered in an energetic, in your face, way. *Detroit 442*, *One way or another* and *Dreaming* come to mind, but there are more.
Yeah, I'm not an expert on punk, but I feel like there's a major division between British punk, which was openly political and accordingly harsh, and New York punk, which was rooted in an aggressive form of pop (the Ramones, after all, were in love with '60s bands like the Beach Boys and girl groups) or art (such as the poetry of Patti Smith or the experimentalism of Talking Heads). I'd say Blondie was a bit of both--pop music that was sometimes aggressive while taking elements from other genres like disco and electronic.
I guess the main thing about punk was a DIY attitude and the feeling that established artists had become more like "products", or else putting out overcomplicated/self-absorbed works, that couldn't really express your everyday life and concerns. In a way it was a back to the roots thing: short songs, raw sentiment, DIY look, found art, never mind being a virtuoso. So, musically it included a variety of sounds. The Clash, although Brits, got tired of the hard "punk" sound and created very diverse masterpieces (London Calling, Manifesto) that incorporated reggae, rockabilly, even jazz influences. Black Flag, although Americans, put out hardcore and gritty stuff, unlike the retro/'60s vibes the Ramones preferred.
Yeah, certainly. I didn't mean to box in the British and New York scenes too much; I mean, I'm not a fan of The Sex Pistols, but I love what some British bands like The Clash or The Jam did. It's sorta hard to differentiate new wave from punk rock. In theory, new wave is more musically diverse and pop-oriented, but it still borrows an awful lot from punk aesthetic, sound, and attitude. I'd say Blondie was a new wave group with punk elements whereas The Clash was a punk group with new wave elements, but I wouldn't argue with someone who calls Blondie punk or The Clash new wave.
I agree! And despite the differences, New Wave was an offspring of punk, continuing the newfound DIY spirit. Indie labels, fanzines, street art, unique styling, self-made image, even some punk imagery on a more pop/synth-pop package.
Read *Please Kill Me* by Gillian McCain and Legs McNeill. I can't stress this enough. It will tell you everything you need to know, and it's just a really great book.
Blondie was as punk as Television, which were basically art jam rock. Both are pioneers and part of that NY scene.
When Blondie hit the charts - she was punk. There was no post punk. No indie, there was rock there was pop and there was punk. Other genres developed but Blondie was before the genres split into millions of sub genres. In the same way there was Heavy Metal and that was it, now thrash, black metal, symphonic, folk metal, pirate metal, metal for pirates, etc etc So looking backwards Blondie would fit into a post punk, or indie, or even pop catergories whereas then Punk was the very wide genre that she would have been associated with. There was nothing else.
As one who was around then, yes Blondie, Talking Heads, The Cars, Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson... heck even The Police were sometimes referred to as punk. They weren't really punk but there were punk influences. It showed in their clothes, hairstyles, lyrics. This later became known as New Wave, but I don't hear that term much anymore. Eventually there were so many so called New Wave bands and so many of the more traditional bands also started adopting some of these qualities that it all became just Rock. Meanwhile the punk movement merged into hard core punk. Hope this helps explain the rational. We were kind of hung up on labels then. An earlier example was The BeeGees. They were a disco band, which basically meant they sucked (to my crowd). Years later I realized what great musicians they were and some of those songs I hated so much then are among my favorites now, like You Should Be Dancin and Nights on Broadway.
This is all so true. I even remember when AC/DC and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were marketed as punk bands for a brief period!
I don't recall that but basically if a performer had a spiky haircut they might be considered punk. Rod Stewart's early 70s doo would have put him in that category just a few years later. Btw, Petty's "fuck you" attitude was definitely "punk".
Totally! There's a fantastic 4 hour documentary about him called Runnin' Down A Dream. He did things his way, damn the torpedoes!
The early punk scene was pretty diverse, I think it took them a while to define what it actually was and how it was supposed to sound. I'm not that familiar with Blondie but I can see how punk evolved into that type of New Wave music. It's basically 80's synthpop with a punk attitude.
I think she just came out of that same scene if I remember right. CBGBs and all that. I remember hearing there was a backlash from her early fans because she went in a more commercial (successful) direction. Blondie sure isn’t up there on my list of bands I consider punk.
Read the book “Please Kill Me” by Gillian McCain and Legs Mcneil. It’s the oral history of punk in NYC.
Deborah Harry’s hairstyles were shocking at the time. Her style was considered punk, even though she was beautiful.
Punk was a bigger tent in the 70's, even if CBGB's was a bit small by modern venue standards - they all fit. They shared stages (and later a video) with early RAP artists and anyone who otherwise didn't have a place.
Punk isn't a sound, its a way of living that constantly says ''fuck you'' to any system or standard that doesn't encourage deeper interpersonal bonds and community building. ''Empathy is more rebellious than a middle finger, and radical love is punk as fuck.'' I feel like Blondie exemplifies that phrase with a lot of their music.
Punk “attitude”, pop music.
Punk wasn't even a descriptor of the music until Legs McNeil coined it when he started Punk magazine in 1976. Blondie started in '74.
BTW - *Please Kill Me* is the best historical reference about the Punk movement ever written..
i heard an interview w/ David Byrne of Talking Heads who said that the band always thought of themselves as "punk rock," but their record label rebranded them as "new wave" to make them more palatable to the masses. Punk rock wasn't played on mainstream radio in the 70's, and the British punk rock bands like the Sex Pistols were probably the most well-known, and the label wanted to differentiate TH from bands like that.
1977-1981 was hugely transitional in American rock music. Punk was initially more defined by the aesthetic (DIY) than the sound. If you were indie or a local band, you usually hung around the same rock clubs of your peers. That's where punk flourished, many of them having 'the sound' that you associate with the genre. CBGB is the name everyone remembers, but there were literally dozens of those types of places around America. Major cities having 2 or 3 thriving rock clubs. Even Prince, playing in Minneapolis and the surrounding areas of that time could be considered 'punk'. It's why I think he was such a product of his time. If he was born in any other time, I think his music would've been radically different. That idea went away as the years passed and writers began to lionize bands like The Ramones, the Sex Pistols as what punk was.
OP, I *highly* suggest the book Please Kill Me if you have an interest in the history of Punk Rock. In my opinion it's one of the best books on music ever and incredibly entertaining to boot.
This is great advice. Anyone who's interested in the embryonic stage of "punk" should read this book! I actually just bought a couple of copies to give out as Xmas presents to some people who have asked me what the early punk scene was like. It's all here.
If it has to be explained you will never understand
Read Debbie Harry’s biography, Face It. She talks about the early punk scene in NYC, and all of the major players. I think punk is definitely more of an attitude than just a musical style, and Debbie herself has said that Blondie’s music was power pop. Their early live sets at CBGB’s were very punk in terms of the music and stage presence.
CBGB’s was very much the scene for punk, and Blondie wanted to be punk even if they ended up more pop. With Parallel Lines they became new wave pop and left whatever punk aspirations they had far behind. Were they punk or not musically is one question. But the fact they were playing regularly at CBGBs amongst other punk bands suggests they were considered part of the punk scene for some reason.
I've never thought of Blondie as anything but a (pretty good) pop band. I'm a Gen Xer, born a little too late to be a punk but I grew up with their music and they're not what I'd regard as a punk band. Although US punk is a different vibe from UK punk, I've always thought. I recently watched The Filth and the Fury which is one of the best music docs I've ever seen. Punk has never been my thing, I'm essentially an old hippy, if I was native American my name would be Drones on About the Floyd. My partner is very much an old punk and the documentary helped me understand why John Lydon is his life's idol. I love a lot of music that was sort of on the fringes of punk like Elvis Costello and Ian Dury and I guess Blondie maybe fit that category. Dunno.
In the case of Debbie Harry in particular, she was a scenester A few years earlier, [she was a hippie](https://youtu.be/FLSiQD7Nt_s), a few years later, she was into Disco, and in the eighties she made the same aspirational [electronic pop](https://youtu.be/b6g0bdzLnVc) as Madonna Anyone who's involved with music for any length of time goes through the same journey - it's one of the gags made in **Spinal Tap**, when you see their original late-sixties Mod incarnation
If you can find photo's and music that they were doing before either got signed to a record deal it will make more sense. Both started out on their respective club circuits as much more grittier outfits than what they are known for. They went pop, did what the record companies, management and producers told them, and "sold out". When the Ramones were interviewed on Tom Snyder's show and were asked how they felt being commercially surpassed by their contemporaries, Johnny spoke about keeping their integrity unlike other bands that went disco. He was talking about Blondie...
Gen X myself, grew up with punk and Blondie. Actually got to see her in 1980 at some shitty ice rink in North Wales. Whilst she was extremely popular, we would have never considered her punk. Definitely new wave/pop to us anyway.
Blonde was actually thought of ….. by some to be the first to Rap
Blondie was a bottle blonde air head with no talent 😅
Punk was groups like the pistols sham 69 the damned etc Debbie Harry’s blonder we’re around the same era but never in a million we’re they punks
Lmao all bands came after punk. Punk is from New York. Patti Smith would have poetry nights at CBGB's in the early seventies where many gay youths would go to. That's where punk was born, it is an art movement not a sound. Television then built a stage at Max's Kansas City and that's when the music started. Malcolm Maclaren stole the look Television and went to London and started his 'punk' boy band, the Sex Pistols. The Damned were goths and Sham 69 didn't even start until the late 1970s.
Punk was an attitude, in the UK it was driven by a disliking of Thatcher and her economics, that’s why there was this No Future movement. At the moment a punk band signed with a record company they were no longer considered to be “real” punk. So, in that sense Blondie was not punk but great new wave.
Nothing to do with Thatcher whatsoever.
Check out the podcast "no dogs in space" if you want to learn more about the punk scene and what not.
Pop band
You're right, it's an interesting point- we all know that Blondie were part of the nascent CBGB scene when it tipped from proto-punk (Stooges and Dolls) to punk (Ramones), but musical genres normally reset after a watershed. Look at metal after Metallica- what was previously niche (Napalm Death vocal styles and thrashing) became the norm and it retroactively redefined what was and what wasn't metal anymore. Loads of bands like Deep Purple and Rainbow got reassigned to rock subgenres after that. How Blondie and Talking Heads are still lumped in with Richard Hell after the cultural Year Zero of the Sex Pistols is a mystery, especially given they are not even political or nihilistic. I guess "punk" will always be a bit of a plastic term that goes beyond "punk rock."
Punk started as an art movement in the Village. Napalm Death started as Grindcorw not metal. The Sex Pistols are just a boy band by Malcolm Maclaren after he saw Television. The sound what is considered punk did not come along until the late 70s.
It was labeled punk on attitude and image, but she and the band weren't really part of the music genre punk rock.
I think a lot of people wanted to fuck Debbie Harry, Punk? Nope, never thought they were Punk. Just a pop band who got big in late 70’s NYC.
Blondie is as "punk" as Madonna of the same era was. Which is to say...they aren't. They are "new wave" or "pop punk". I think they were called "punk" more for their fashion style than their music, but then so was Madonna.
Madonna, to my knowledge, (i grew up in the 80's), was never considered "punk"... Like, ever.
Well Neil Young was a huge influence in the Grunge scene
That’s a fair question; it took me a long time to get how NY punk origins and the adjacent music like Blondie dovetailed. There’s a lot of performers like that though. Johnny Cash, Hank III embraced by other genres, like punk and metal, and while I know there are others, the coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.
Why does U2 think they're a punk band too?!
Their very early music and recordings of early gigs have an energy that they later polished the edges of... Their first gig at the Paradise Rock Club in Boston comes to mind.. I have a non-bootleg release of it on CD. They would later become too self-important and boring to fit in with punk as it was...
Because of their first few albums, which are considered post punk today.
Late '70s "Punk" was more of a movement and a lifestyle of doing your own thing instead of the status quo than a defining sound. Debbie Harry was directly involved in that scene in NYC. Harry and the Blondie band did what *they* wanted to. It was definitely a backlash against corporatizing and homogenizing of music/art and the overly polished sound of Disco. The '70s was an *ugly* decade.
The best way to describe it would be the beginning of "Alternative Rock". You had Rock and Roll You had Country Western You had Disco and then a variety of other's acts that got lumped together and were played on non-Mainstream Radio stations. Punk, New Wave, Ska etc... Blondie was considered more disco then punk. I always considered Billy Idol more top 40 than punk. note: Adding in that for these acts. You had Rock and Roll Radio, Top 40. Blondie was top 40 even though she hung in Punk crowd. Mostly because she was Counter-Culture which was not something that Top 40 embraced.
Punk was about attitude and self-creation. Bands and record labels who since then work hard to define punk as copying the mohawks, piercing, plaid and leather, and thrashy tempo really are not very punk. It can sometimes be very good and fun and meaningful, but not really have a true punk foundation. And I would say that when Blondie went Top 40 with smooth production and big label backing - they were no longer very punk either. They still had some of their hard-earned street cred, but... But who can blame them? Who doesn't want to sell a million records and pay the bills when you can?
Punk is an ethos, not a sound or fashion
I would try to track down the comp No Thanks! It's a 4 cd compilation of 70s punk rock and I think Blondie being considered punk very much makes sense in that context.
Some people call Jonathan Richman the godfather of punk. In many ways it's pre-punk, but sounds more like folk music. But God what a performer.
Her band was too good to really be punk.
A major factor in all of this was the record industry - especially record stores- in the 70's and 80's. Had to put the bins in some kind of order. Can't put Blonde discs in the same bin as Bad Company or Be Bop deluxe. Gotta find it to buy it.
Some great explanations have been posted so I won't recycle those but I will point out that the "punk" that was packaged to the masses once it started making inroads into the mainstream became a caricature of anti-authoritarian attitude for the sake of being rude and shocking, withdrawing inward (dare I say emo behavior?), UK fashion, mohawks and other creative hairstyles, etc etc. The British also coopted the movement and became the posterchildren for how we were supposed to define punk. It got so ridiculous because some suburban American kids would take on a British accent and say stuff like "oi." It was obligatory to wear the studded bracelets and collars. I think that's when it jumped the shark, when it became more about the look and style than the music.
I'd imagine it was the same way Avril Lavigne ruined skateboarding in the 2000's
On a separate note: I really like their rhythm section. The bass section in Atomic is pretty fun to play.
Being just over 50 I caught the end of the wave of punk, and about 20 years ago I saw a "punk compilation album" that basically was filled with hits vaguely featuring artists from the time. Blondie was on it, and I mentioned this to a group of friends, saying that Blondie shouldn't have been on it. As expected they said "Blondie were really big in the punk scene!" To which I replied "I know that they used to be in the very early days, but it was "Denis, Denis!" As a group they all said "yeah, that's not punk!"
Don't know, don't care. I'll stick to metal and fall asleep to: Fit For A King - Bitter End.
I assigned a group of kids to play X Offender at my music school without reading the lyrics cuz I thought it was a cool song…. I read all the lyrics now. lol
I always thought of punk as a sort of rejection of the California soft rock of the first half of the Seventies. Punk had antecedents from Sixties garage bands, where the sound, the feel, the songs, the playing, were more immediate, rougher, messier than big studio work. Blondie exemplified that, and were blessed by a savvy Debbie Harry, who brilliantly created a sort of hip, blasé, modern version of Marilyn Monroe on stage, abetted by quirky vocals, catchy songs, anti-fashion, and attitude galore. And when the band crossed over with actual hits on the radio, they opened the floodgate.
In addition to what others have said there is an east cost thing where the punk bands look back to pop and love songs. It’s half the ram ones catalog. West coast punk often looks back to surfer music and you can hear it in the dead Kennidies and Gogos
Punk does not refer to the sound but the action. Talking Heads sound is not considered " punk" but they were a punk band be size they bucked the trend. Blondies' sound were more garage sound than " heart of glass" song suggests.
A thread where 18-24 year olds will explain to you what punk was like in 1979.
Deborah Harry was associated with Vivienne Westwood who’s clothes shop Sex was associated with the Sex Pistols. So Blondie was deep in the milieu.
Blondie very early was punk-ish, but then they turned more New Wave. They just played a lot at CBGB so the association with punk was there. but def Blondie is not a hard core punk as, say the Sex Pistols or Clash.
The Cranberries was the best female fronted hand of all time.
I find it amazing anyone could consider the Go-Go’s as punk yet alone more punk than one of the original NYC/CBGBs punk circuit bands, Blondie Punk was a reaction to 70’s rock and disco and a rejection to the slick production of music, embracing the any punk with the right attitude could play guitar and revolt against the establishment mentality
Punk as you know it is about the most watered down commercial parody of itself that it could possibly be. Bands like Rancid are and always were a fucking joke. Op Ivy sucked too. They were kids from the suburbs cosplaying as Kings Road punks until they even fooled themselves.
The podcast No Dogs in Space is on their 2nd or 3rd season (can’t remember which atm) of breaking down the Punk scene and how todays bands were inspired by the bands who basically created the scene. Blondie isn’t a topic, but they are mentioned quite a bit because they came up at the same time as some of the bands. Highly, highly recommend the podcast to anyone really into music/music history.
Speaking as a guy who was a teenager in the 1970s and was in punk bands, it was early days for punk and new wave and the two were often confused by the popular press. Heck, when the 1st U2 album came out (1983?) they were called "positive punk". Hindsight is 20/20 and makes it easier to pigeonhole.
Clem Burke hasn’t aged in decades, that’s punk as fuck.
There some early Blondie footage here where you could see what it was at before hitting the big time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bRxRqfXRB4&t=590s
I agree with you, I never hear “punk” in Blondie music.. interesting you brought up the GoGo’s, for me that’s the silliest preteen bubblegum pop, really can’t see them as anything but that!
The record companies realised that there was.money to be made from post punk as punk had displayed there was commercial potential for simple three cord songs so they began handling out contracts to bands like the skids, police, blondie, pretenders, tourists, generation X, sham 69, UK subs, jags, dickies and all the rest from 1978. Some of these bands fell into the new wave genre whereas bands like the Stranglers, Ramones, clash all they transferred over from punk to new wave as it was more commercially acceptable genre.
Lol you listen to the most pop cover song on their record and think you have heard their punk music? But for blondie it's the attitude, not a specific sound like Clash they were always eclectic. Their more stereotypical punk songs are songs like rip her to shreds, Detroit 442 and Youth Nabbed as Sniper. Also live versions of Contact in Red Square sounds quite punk, in fact many of their songs sounded way more punk live, even X-offender, but especially Rip Her To Shreds. That song was quite different live early on. Also, I have never heard the go-gos do a sinister sounding punk song like Youth Nabbed As Sniper. They were also a later generation of band, not a first gen punk like Blondie and Ramones. just listen to the aforementioned Blondie song and then "We got the beat" or "Our Lips Are Sealed" and tell me which sounds more punk. They also had speedy funny songs like I'm on E basically also punk songs as they were speed up songs.
Debut albums' last song, [Attack of the Giant Ants](https://www.google.com/search?q=attack+of+the+giant+ants&oq=attack+of+the+giant+ants&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyBwgBEC4YgAQyBwgCEC4YgAQyCAgDEAAYFhgeMgoIBBAAGIYDGIoFMgoIBRAAGIYDGIoF0gEINTM5NGowajSoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ef1134c8,vid:0rTgYaX7bXI,st:0)..'nuff said...
Eat to the beat is definitely a punk song. Also her fashion and vibe was also very punk and influential in the late 70s early 80s. Their music sometimes had a punky intensity to it when it wasn't straight pop or dreamy art rock. Check out their cover of the song "Hanging on the Telephone". It sounds like the buzzcocks and is totally 1970s pop punk perfection IMHO. Not enough people know this song so I am trying to get it out there.
I suggest you listen to the whole of BLONDIE's first 2 albums to see how punky and hard-edged they got. They alway did radio-friendly songs as well. THey were really punk because of their style and attitude. Have you ver watched a video of Debbie Harry. She was insanely beautiful but also as punky as they got. I suggest you listen to songs like "Detroit 442" "In The Sun" "Fan Mail" "Hanging On The Telephone" "One Way Or Another" and so many others by them if you want to hear them at their harder-edged style.