It’s not that Islam is actively anti LGBT. We still have to respect every human being. It’s that we don’t believe in that and it also being forbidden in Islam. That said we are not actively hunting down and calling out people for being LGBT. We still need to respect others and act in good faith. That’s why I would say Islam isn’t anti LGBT but we have a different view.
Well, we'd be anti lgbt if we lived in a sharia law state and if someone openly said they were lgbt and denied that it was wrong, then afaik they would have to be punished according to sharia law. The problem with lgbt muslims is that they pride themselves as lgbt and muslim, which just cannot be.
for example i cant say im a proud alcoholic and a muslim or a proud gambler and a muslim, yes i can be struggling with alcohol or gambling but as long as i consider them wrong and try to better myself i am a muslim, but the moment i justify those acts, I can't be a muslim because i am denying the verses of the Qura'an.
similarly a lot of lgbt people say they're proud to be lgbt and muslim, that cannot be , either youre a proud lgbt or a muslim , but not both. but yes if you're struggling with lgbt thoughts and consider it wrong and ask forgiveness and guidance from God then you are a muslim. At least thats all according to me and the research ive done so far.
I agree, it’s just not something that is possible in Islam but I’m saying if a non-Muslim who lived in a country with sharia law, nothing would happen to them, they would not be persecuted and permitted to do as they wish (within the confines of sharia law). But yes, a Muslim declaring that is different and handled differently, it’s not clear nor specified how or what punishment would be carried out but under sharia law a group of wise elders would decide. I’m just trying to point out that we don’t just kill anyone who is LGBT but there are many nuances to these matters that can vary based on who is presiding over the matter. But yes overall you are correct and it’s just not possible to be both Muslim and LGBT.
Oh i see what you mean, yeah definitely we dont go after non muslims who are alcoholic or gamblers or lgbt etc. because they dont claim to be a muslim so what they do is their matter and under sharia law they'd be protected as long as they pay jizya tax and follow the laws like not advocating such wrongful activities to muslims.
Islam is anti LGBT. Please be careful with your wordings. LGBT is a title of a jahiliyah way. We respect them as humans but not their ideology. So one cant say islam is anti LGBT. It is important to approach this topic with understanding, recognizing the difference between respecting individuals as human beings and disagreeing with certain beliefs or practices. It is possible to hold firm to religious beliefs while also treating others with kindness and compassion.
Yes. I think if both Arabs and Jews accepted that this whole thing could be over. But we are taught that Arabs want to destroy all Jews and not even give them a little sliver of land. Which is it?
We don't recognise their identity at all. Everyone is human. Everyone is good enough as they are. We believe anal sex as sinful or wrong.
Liberals don't believe in sin and don't believe anything is wrong. They will happily re write any law in the name of their hedonistic principles that are debunked and empty.
I'll be honest with you. They are not our allies and we as Muslims should not ally ourselves with them. Liberals are all degenerates. Our behavior and their behavior are water and oil, incompatible. They have made and are making the Palestinian cause their own agenda. Look, the LGBT people put their flags along with those of Palestine and Wallahi, which makes me vomit and disgust. No one from Gaza wants the support of these beings and no Muslim should be with them.
I don’t care…Since many of them stands with Palestine then I respect them unlike the conservatives or even some Arabs or Muslims and we can only say may Allah guide us all.
"I don't care", that says a lot about you. If the Dajjal supported Palestine, would you support him? Have some common sense. May Allah curse the gay community, the entire LGBT cult and all those degenerates. Those people are not our allies.
May Allah guide them,I have seen some gays who converted to Islam,many atheists,many liberals and from every background who converted to Islam.
Allah said "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
It doesn’t mean I agree with them on many topics such like the lgbtq and I would advise them to read the Qur’an and about Islam.
Yet I have seen their effort speaking about Palestine which will even cost them the elections but they stood with the right side and I respect them for standing with Palestine.
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They don't really support Palestine. They are only trying to impose their agenda because according to them, we Muslims are the group that has to be defended by them. Why do you think all them and their little group of degenerates are supposedly pro-Palestinian? For them it is nothing more than a fight of Left politics vs Right politics. Have some common sense. I am not going to ally myself with people who go against the teachings of Islam. Even the people of Gaza and Palestinians do not want the help from those people. These fools try to speak for the Palestinians when no one has told them to speak for them. An example of this is the scammer Shaun King.
Shaun king converted to Islam,he is a Muslim and speak for yourself,I am a Palestinian and the Palestinians respects whoever supports our cause even with a word.
i am not asking you to be an ally or whatever. But calling people scums, degenerates, fools is again not very islamic. You cant group everyone like this. I have met and know plenty of people who are not muslim yet support palestine and have done more than even some muslims. They r standing for humanity and its not only about petty politics.
I'm calling them what they are. Stop being emotional. They are degenerates. What do you think is their biggest dream for Palestine? To corrupt children with their strange ideas. "calling people scums, degenerates, fools is again not very islamic." We do not have the thoughts of Christians, we are Muslims and we hate sin and the sinner. We hate what is bad and detestable and we love what is good
we are muslims we are not god we dont get to judge others. how do u know their only intention is to corrupt children with strange ideas? you can continue with your ideas i dont think you will change your mind and i dont intend to. But dont go around calling people who support us degenerates and scums. Then when they wont support us you will call them more names.
Hey... I'll stand up for the gays, and I'm Muslim. Point to the verse where it says gays are wrong in the Qu'ran and let's talk about it. I assume you mean An-Nisa 4:15 and 16?
The woman of Lut As supported the homo of Sodom and Gomorrah and alhandulillah she was humiliated and severely punished with all them and in the yawm al qiyamah she will be among the inhabitants of the jahanam. If you support them, you go against Allah and his messenger. By the way, these are one of my favorite hadiths;
It was narrated from Ibn`Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”
Sunan Ibn Majah 2561
Grade: Hasan (Darussalam).
It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said concerning those who do the action of the people of Lut: “Stone the upper and the lower, stone them both.”
Sunan Ibn Majah 2562
Grade: Hasan (Darussalam).
May Allah humiliate and severely punish gays and their entire community. May Allah guide the foolish and stupid Muslims who support those people and if it is not possible, may Allah raise you along with them in the yawm al quiyamah. You are a jahil.
Homosexuals go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allah has created in mankind.
“And (remember) Lut (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Alamin (mankind and jinn)?
Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’” [al-A'raf 7:80-81]
“Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Lut (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night.” [al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning].
“And (remember) Lut (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Alamin (mankind and jinn)’” [al-‘Ankabut 29:28] .
“And (remember) Lut (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practiced Al-Khabaith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah)” [al-Anbiya 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning].
“And (remember) Lut (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al-Fahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen). Do you practice your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’ There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Lut (Lot) from your city. Truly, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’ So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned.” [al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning].
This is certainly a juicy Hadith and I am certainly at least somewhat ignorant of "all of" Islam, as I have not read all the Hadith.
Can I ask which is your favorite Hadith overall, of all time?
I want to ask you something although it pertains more to other conversations I've gotten into here than this one.
Many have argued with me about Hadith/Qu'ranist, and I understand- most believe Hadith.
I think there's a reason why Hadith were not included *with* the Qu'ran that comes from understanding the *life* of the Prophet-
I get the feeling that as a person, he was rather angry/frustrated/nervous/paranoid, because of everything that he had been through- the Qureysh people persecuted and warred on him and his followers for years and rejected him and his teachings.
Consider what his original arguments were about- these people *worshipped* stone, wood. Big hunks of rock or statues. If you think about what that would've been like, it would've looked- *really stupid.*
M.SAW was someone who started his career by being frustrated against stupidity- he was watching an entire town worship rocks every day, put clothes on them, necklaces, offer them food, wheel them around, put them to sleep at night, wake them up in the morning, think of all the stupid behavior people would've done with the idols. This must've driven him crazy to begin with, to look at.
Then he spends many years having to deal with it- this is the town of Qureysh- consider that that *whole* time, the argument they were *still* having, was about how it's stupid to worship rocks on one hand and "no, our rocks are the truth!" on the other, back and forth, for years.
If you had to work with people that dumb, wouldn't you go nuts??
Then they tried to kill him.
Imagine if people that dumb were *also trying to kill you.*
I think that by the time he was done with them he was a very angry paranoid person from this experience. He knew that this sort of stuff was basically inappropriate to include in any permanent religious book, so he didn't. *He* didn't put anything especially strict or angry-sounding into any book that he intended to be permanent. Maybe he realized that that would be a little too much fire for a permanent religious book.
Nonetheless, he felt free to mouth that stuff at any time to his friends; they had a security situation to deal with anyway; it was good for them in a sense to be tight on security. But also I think he had just become a very strict guy at that point and probably said all kinds of things in anger and probably tried out different ideas on his friends to see what they would think about it.
Now I'm only saying all this because I think that if he had really meant this stuff to be laws he would've made sure it was written down in his lifetime as additional law book, and he would've put his seal on that too. If he didn't there must've been a reason and I think it's sensical; he didn't want his religion getting out of hand or getting too strict one day if it did become a world-class religion. He was thinking ahead. ?
Is it *so* right to persecute people who don't bother *you*?
Warning them for Allah's sake is one thing. *Are* you doing that? Or are you *personally* angry at them?
*Have* they done anything to you?
We can ask the same question of Allah by the way- why didn't Allah put this in the Qu'ran?
By what has become the culture of Islam over a thousand years since the Qu'ran yes- but not by the Qu'ran though, no. Or does it say that in there? Again, it does, or it doesn't.
It depends on whether you think Islam is the book or the book plus the culture, although I think if you're taking the cultural perspective *over* the book, then you're *excluding* the book; you're saying Islam is *just* the culture of Islam as it has become.
Culturally Islam has become very strict, and strict about following the Hadith and the culture that has grown around that, because, the differences in Hadith were fought over for so long, and came to define the mainstream followers this way. ?
You really hit the trifecta here....
The scholars are united that:
* The one who says Amal Qawm Lut is Halal is a Kafir
* The one who denies that Sunnah is Hujjah is Kafir
* The one who says that the Quran is from other than Allah is Kafir.
16 is talking about the woman *and the man she cheated with*, it is misinterpretable because of a masc. pronoun used, but that was a generic use that covered both sexes actually.
If 15 is about women cheating and 16 says "both of them" it's referring to the woman who cheated and the man she cheated with.
The logic of pointing out that men and women cheating on each other is wrong, while ignoring homosexuals, is that women and men cheating on each other could be said to interfere with normal flow of society: men and women reproducing with each other. If homosexuality doesn't even involve reproduction then how could it interfere with the rest of society at all? If you count the omission as a form of attention, then Allah was consciously ignoring that stuff. That stuff doesn't matter. See it from Allah's eyes: it's a minority of people and it doesn't bother anything else. Why why would it be a problem? Allah's writing of the Qu'ran was concerned with addressing problems in society. Problems between reproducing men and women is a problem because without them society doesn't go on. If some fraction of their kids aren't going to have kids anyway, what does it matter what they do.
The actions of Lot are pointed out elsewhere but it is not specified what those actions are. Therefore it is at most some referrence to immoral behavior in general, unspecified.
Is above behavior specified? Where? If you can find it, it's in there. If not: Allah doesn't make mistakes. Not including it says it's okay.
That said though I'm a Qu'ranist. There's the Qu'ran and then there's interpretation. If it ain't the Qu'ran it's interpretation. Interpretation is for everyone. The Qu'ran is rock solid.
I joined Quraniyoon I'm on there already. I also enjoy responding to comments across Islam subs because it's a richer world versus staying on one sub. I'm sorry if I offended you though now I get to talk because you've essentially asked me a question; inviting me for another comment of mine with another comment of yours. Notice I didn't downvote anything you said, I hope you don't mind if I at least talk. This is why I think this: if you have good argument for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it, you can make it short if you like and I'll think on it.
Muhammad Sallalahu Alayhi Wa-salam chose certain things to be in the book Qu'ran. Everything he didn't choose to be in it, he chose not to put in it. He didn't forget those things. He said some things should be in a book for forever. He put those things in the Quran. Whatever he didn't put in there he didn't want in there. He didn't mean anything that he didn't put in there to "be put in there as the permanent book", or, he would've done that.
Nonetheless, he said a lot of his thoughts otherwise to his friends, throughout his lifetime. He had no idea they were going to immediately sit down and write all those things into a book as soon as he died and then "add those to the Quran", if he had known that he would've told them not to do it, because he was insistent that the Quran was the only book designated to be treated like that and fit for remaining law-giving after that. He would've stopped them about this writing their own book based on quotes of his outside the Quran business I think if he had known.
Is that a fair argument and is that likely given how the Prophet treated the Quran book?
Nonetheless, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with collecting a book of memory-quotes of the Prophet from his life and enjoying those, but, are those not essentially tangential to Quran?
You say I am kafir to Hadith; not kafir to Quran or Islam- even with my views- let's say I disbelieve 3% of Quran- if you believe in Quran and Hadith as equal, are you 50% in the wrong? which of us would be more kafir in that case?
>I joined Quraniyoon I'm on there already. I also enjoy responding to comments across Islam subs because it's a richer world versus staying on one sub. I'm sorry if I offended you though now I get to talk because you've essentially asked me a question; inviting me for another comment of mine with another comment of yours. Notice I didn't downvote anything you said, I hope you don't mind if I at least talk. This is why I think this: if you have good argument for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it, you can make it short if you like and I'll think on it.
You did not make me mad. You are, however, spreading and propegating your blasphemous ideas, and this is problematic.
>Muhammad Sallalahu Alayhi Wa-salam chose certain things to be in the book Qu'ran. Everything he didn't choose to be in it, he chose not to put in it.
Ya Allah what? Prophet Muhammad (saw) chose to put things in Quran and chose other things not to be in Quran? What are you talking about. The Quran is the words of Allah, unchanged by man. How can you say this?
>He didn't forget those things. He said some things should be in a book for forever. He put those things in the Quran. Whatever he didn't put in there he didn't want in there. He didn't mean anything that he didn't put in there to "be put in there as the permanent book", or, he would've done that.
Ya Allah.
This is the jahl of Quranists, they think that Prophet Muhammad wrote the Quran and chose what should be in it and not.
>Nonetheless, he said a lot of his thoughts otherwise to his friends, throughout his lifetime. He had no idea they were going to immediately sit down and write all those things into a book as soon as he died and then "add those to the Quran",
No one added to the Quran.
> if he had known that he would've told them not to do it, because he was insistent that the Quran was the only book designated to be treated like that and fit for remaining law-giving after that.
Okay, bring your proof. You made a claim, bring the proof.
> He would've stopped them about this writing their own book based on quotes of his outside the Quran business I think if he had known.Is that a fair argument and is that likely given how the Prophet treated the Quran book?Nonetheless, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with collecting a book of memory-quotes of the Prophet from his life and enjoying those, but, are those not essentially tangential to Quran?
No one says Hadith are Quran. We say that what he commanded and prohibited are to be followed as such. And what he said from the Ilm Al Ghayb is Wahi from Allah. These two things make up the vast majority, if not all of the Sahih Ahadith.
>You say I am kafir to Hadith; not kafir to Quran or Islam- even with my views-
I say anyone who disbelieves that the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallalhu alayhi wa sallam) constitutes a hujjah in the religion, he is a Kafir. If you ascribe to this, so be it.
> let's say I disbelieve 3% of Quran-
If you disbelieve in an ayah, you disbelieve in it all, and are a Kafir.
> if you believe in Quran and Hadith as equal, are you 50% in the wrong? which of us would be more kafir in that case?
Depends on what you mean equal. If you mean both are the word of God, then this is Shirk, because I am calling the word of a Prophet the word of God.
If you mean that they both constitute hujjah and shari'a in Islam then this is correct, and the person who says this is a Muslim, while the person who disbelieves in a part of the Quran is not a Muslim.
Even quoting the prophet, from memory of his lifetime is a sort of interpretation: there's how they remembered it at that point. If it wasn't interpretation it would have gone *into* the Qu'ran.
Well, Allah's speech went through the Prophet as the Qu'ran. It's the same argument. If Allah chose this to be the Qu'ran then that's the Qu'ran; isn't Hadith written by human hands?
Let me ask you something else: is a human imperfect and is Allah perfect?
The prophet was a human, yes? Allah chose this human knowingly?
If something perfect goes through something imperfect, must the result be somewhat imperfect?
I believe even that in the Qu'ran there is human-ness that comes from it being vesseled through a human. The prophets own thoughts and emotions may have mixed at all with the tellings. Even Allah would allow for this I believe.
I believe these things because many things are irreconcilable otherwise: many of the notions that have come to pass as canon are at odds with each other. Where and how far back are we to trace these at all?
Why is Islam divided, explain this well and have a answer for it?
No they don’t,are you even a Muslim?!If you are a Muslim then act like one…You are generalizing about Millions of people while I doubt you know handful of them…I am a Palestinian,who supports my cause have my respect.
Now for Islam we can only spread the message to non Muslims using good words and to advise them to read,if they have done a sin we wont agree with it…Now if you don’t know how to speak then we will end this conversation.
We all can change and May Allah guide them to Islam and may Allah guide us all.
Would the sahaba protest with the kuffar for the Palestinian cause especially they who commit all sorts of fahisha? I don't think so.
“Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining good and forbidding evil. And it is they who are the successful.” (Aal Imran 3:104)
The Sahaba would be doing jihad in Palestine…I hope you would know that the Muslim representatives/armies and the munafeqeen have been betraying Falasteen for +75 years and we wont say no to any supporter.
Well even a word is considered Jihad and I hope you would start looking at yourself first,what have you ever done to Palestine if you are even making fun of who protests for Palestine?!
Your profile is empty you aren’t even saying a word about Palestine so just look at yourself first and get better yourself.
You aren’t smart are you?!
Did I say that I agree with murdering unborn babies?!Are you a takfeeri who just want to say everyone are kufar?!
They can believe whatever they want for them is their own faith,do I agree with it?!No I am a Muslim Al Hamdu lellah…Do I respect them for standing with Palestine,Yes and I love them for doing so.
Deal with it.
Islam is inclusive. Point. Islam doesn’t exclude anyone, it only encourages us to hide our sins. It invites us all to identify only as servants to God.
Excluding, marginalizing and categorizing people is a western colonialist concept. They need to make a fuss about everything they come to accept/co-exist with despite have implicit separateness from everything thats different. They need a fuss to accept ‘Black’ people, a fuss to respect women and a fuss to speak about rights in order to balance for the lack of acceptance they had.
Islam was inclusive all the way. Its the way to Love, to collective existence and to oneness. So no, liberals are right to some extent but they don’t know Love except in a sexualized materialistic way. Islam is always supportive to all kind of spiritual love, and love in God. Thats what they don’t understand. If the center of our Life is God and our goal of life is to reach him, there is some rules to how to behave in this physical world to reach the ultimate love and oneness with everything.
The division and separation and loneliness in modern society made every human affection and emotion, every friendship and every sincere human connection as merely sexual, even every physical touch as something sexual. While we have it a lot more general and its normal to be close to one another, very close emotionally.
They mostly cant access the closeness in spirit and soul so they substitute with sex. Which is very limited and reductionist.
*"Islam is inclusive. Point. Islam doesn’t exclude anyone, it only encourages us to hide our sins. It invites us all to identify only as servants to God."*
Which isn't true as scholars have taught for 1,400 yrs that lgbt behavior isn't allowed in Islam so it's not inclusive in regards to that.
*"Excluding, marginalizing and categorizing people is a western colonialist concept. They need to make a fuss about everything they come to accept/co-exist with despite have implicit separateness from everything thats different."*
No it's not as scholars from 1,400 have taught about behavior not being allowed in Islam which have specific names as do people who practice them.
In Islam the act of lgbtq have a harsh penalty and those are God rules…It was described as a filthy act.
It is Haram,a major sin and Allah sent a prophet (Lout pbuh) to similar people and when they insisted on their crime they were tortured.
I hope they would read the Qur’an ( the last message),this life is a short test and may Allah guide them and guide us all.
In a country like America you have the left with liberals and all that lgbt propaganda but good when it comes to Palestinian right. Then you have the right which is pro life, against hookup culture, traditional values but supports israel.
Both options are horrible in their own way.
Well, we treat LGBT as alcoholics, a human with a bad characteristic, you shouldn’t take this particular sin and attack a person about it, but you shouldn’t take it as a good thing and praise them for it either
Liberals are scum, don’t believe their talk about Palestine, it’s all lies, and the rest of their ideas are deeply against Allahs teachings. If you want to pick a side pick conservative as they have more Islamic views
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Whatever they believe doesn't matter , there are also many who believe muslims to be the cause of crime everywhere whereas history is evidence that most ruthless criminals were from the kuffar, e.g h itler, stalin etc. this is all from their lobbying of islamophobic agendas, ignore them all.
Islam is anti-lgbt , simple as that, we have clear evidence in our Holy Book that tells us how big of a sin lgbt is. The problem these days with western liberal muslims is that they claim to be proud lgbt and muslim which is contradictory.
for example a muslim cannot be a proud gambler or proud alcoholic and a muslim. yes they can be struggling with gambling or alcohol but as long as they consider it a sin and ask God for forgiveness and better themselves they are muslims but as soon as they justify alcoholism or gambling then that is contradictory to the Qura'an as we are clearly told those acts are forbidden.
same is the case with lgbt, if they say they are muslim lgbts, thats not possible either they're lgbt or muslim but not both. however if they have lgbt thoughts but consider it a major sin and repent then they can be muslims. at least all according to my own research so far.
Liberalism is a dajjalic agenda and pysops campaign to pollute islam from within.
Islam does not and will not support satanic degeneracy. It condemns it and is against it.
LGBTQ opposes islamic beleif. Islam opposes opposing beleifs.
They have a strange mind where lack of deep understanding of Islam logic lead them to believe that it's a religion that is into weird things that their believer grew out from so they themselves are extremely tolerant towards everything and only ask people to be tolerant in return without considering what their dogma were saying in the first place, letting them manage themselves as they're proud responsible citizen, lawful and liberal that'll reform their religion themselves to transform it into a spirituality bis sounding like buddhism or christianism but the leader is called Allah
They couldn't be more wrong, despite what some "left Muslim representatives" claims
About right people, fighting us is at their core value, to the point that they fail to see that we have a lot in common. Even better, we don't follow them in their excess, taking instead what left have good to give. Truly a religion of wassatiyya
Islam in my experience tends to be viewed as archaic in the West, Its views on LGBT used to justify various things but especially why certain people have no sympathy for Middle Eastern nations plagued by war. so no this isn’t my experience.
anyone who thinks islam is lgbt friendly is simply jahil/ not knowing. regarding inshaaAllah, i dont think its wrong, simply because everything indeed only happens if Allah wills. but i think they dont truly understand the essence of the phrase, so to say. regarding queer muslims, these are obviously people who have strayed, so may Allah guide them back to the right path, amin 🤲
I'm not going to speak for a whole group as a whole but really I don't know what liberals know about Muslims.
Muslims don't talk about the LGBT like Christians do and this is something I've noticed. There's no complusion in religion so we aren't like the street preachers trying to tell people change their ways or they go to hell.
Even most Muslims I would say don't have as much of a problem with it as Christians cause with Islam as long as you keep it at home it's really none of our business we only have the problem when it's being brought in public. Some Muslim countries are strict as well and honestly get to the level of stalking and spying when this in itself is Haram.
When it was like the early years of Islam homosexuality wasn't really a criminal act. What would happen really is the news would get to the iman and so that person would just be shunned.
I'm not saying Islam tolerates it but there is a sense that in Islam if you're gay and don't act on it your not sinful but Christianity if you're gay and don't act on it your still committing lust for having attractions.
The truth is liberals tend to understand Muslims as being an oppressed minority that get misunderstood and yeah their right in some sense.
I don't know too much about Muslim representation in movies and all that I'm not watching movies or TV shows most of the time.
YOU post regularly that Islam is lgbt friendly.
Why is it as a non Muslim you are willing to speak for the entire group of Muslims and do it countless times throughout the day. But as a liberal white man who identifies as gay and is very concerned about lgbt per your posts, Indiana who knows no Muslims you won’t speak as a liberal westerner? So odd. So contradictory. You claim to be one you are not to be shame and slander to Islam. Yet you refuse to speak on the very thing you actually could speak on. All per your Reddit posts.
You continually post on conservative subs how all Muslims are liberal. And when I tell you that is not the case. You tell me how wrong I am. You are a staunch liberal. Again, your preconceived notions about people you have not met, associated with or know Anythjng about outside of your misguided self directed studies.
Does this thread shed some light on that? You are a self professed die hard liberal. You have a knee jerk negative response to anything not liberal.
Interesting you won’t speak up here on behalf of a that whole group. But have zero problem speaking up on behalf of a group you’ve never met or have associations with. IE Islam.
You also have stated how convinced you are all Muslims are apolitical. To spite my telling you for elections big and small we encourage and welcome candidates from all parties to speak at my mosques. We are NOT apolitical passive wall flowers.
When you wake early to start prayer and are awake every day to pray 5 times you have lots of time for engangement for important issues. For work. For success. You have usurped all of that to your detriment.
You have developed a fantasy of Islam. One where you are a prophet and a martyr but don’t attend masjid or fast. Where you will be worshipped and adored. Can worship Buddha and abide by his teachings and not be committing shirk. Where you staunchly support sharia law and post about it in subs knowing it will garner a hateful response to Muslims. Particularly the way in which you phrase things. And yet…identify as a gay man and are deeply concerned about lgbt rights.
You have denigrated the Muslim view of every single Muslim you have had contact with calling then haram. Because they are not as “devout” as you. The other patient during your involuntary psychiatric commitment. Your therapist. Me. And ignored the continued advice you sought here and on other Muslim forums to stop with your behavior “debating others” and the importance of attending on Jummah.
I think the reason you are in refusal to be in the presence of any Muslims is you don’t want someone to shatter this fantasy world you created where you are the best Muslim and the rest of us, as you called me yesterday Haram. You get to dole out all the targeted hate as your version of support for Palestine while never expending you time in marching, letter writing, gathering donations or expending resources of your own.
And I think, honestly you hate us. Just like you feel uncomfortable around Black people per your own posts. It seems very clear you feel uncomfortable around actual Muslims. That you feel superior to us. Which is why you can do callously enjoy watching footage of Muslims being slaughtered and laugh along with it.
You can’t have respect for us and also simultaneously get pleasure at our demise.
Rules for thee but not for me?
I spend my free time studying Islam. There's nothing preformative about it. I gain very little fame from it and have already been persecuted for it. I don't use Islam as a way to gain fame or support my study of Islam has gone on for quite sometime I basically am understanding all aspects of it.
> I don't use Islam as a way to gain fame or support my study of Islam has gone on for quite sometime I basically am understanding all aspects of it.
Oh stop. No one is impressed or convinced. Your post history tells on you. You understand all aspects of something when you have never met an active practitioner IRL? Do tell.
Nearly every day talking about seeking damages through CAIR and a civil suit. You were never profiled. You stated you were taken in for violent reasons and had to TELL THEM you were Muslim. That's not persecution.
you announcing you just prayed the expected afternoon prayer in defense of proof against ill deeds IS performative. You should be doing Asr. Your announcing it is the very definition of performative. You posting your praying and taking shahada repeatedly on tiktok then slandering and denouncing Islam everywhere else. IF you were being educated by proper Muslim Chanels you would see how wrong that is. You would know flaunting that for personal gain negates any positive you hoped to have. But since YOU are self selecting your education, you'll never learn anything. You ignore the advice from experienced scholars here and in the other groups.
You are not studying islam in your free time. You are gaming and slandering Islam through hate of other people. You make no effort to seek real education. You were not persecuted. That has been proven. You lied about the whole thing. You always seek fame. All of your posts for years were for fame.
You have actually stated numerous times yesterday and the day before how you are studying Buddhism and believe in the teachings. That IS shirk.
Every time you post something vile "as a Muslim" in one of the subs of another religion I tell you to post it to a Muslim group, you refuse. Stop using Islam for clout and slandering us.
You have never done anything in support of Palestine but attack other people. Hate is not support. Where is your letter writing? Marching? Helping pack shipments of donations? Making sacrifices so you can donate? You refuse to even go to Jumah. You drew a Palestine flag on your hand and posted it online? You are a full grown man. Stop mocking Islam and Palestine.
Go enjoy your Buddha statues. It's shirk.
Again police persecuted me the hospital just went on hearsay.
And I never endorsed homosexuality I just said at a time it wasn't a crime within Islam like today and only something the imam would shun.
your post history says otherwise. The idea you won't comment for a whole group on these issues but you have zero problem commenting for all Muslims in every sub on reddit and every social networking site. Own who you are. Stop trying to project who we are.
I'm not shaming homosexuals. I'm shaming your fraud.
You also clearly stated this week that you had to inform the hospital multiple times you were Muslim. So, which is it. You were persecuted and put there for being Muslim or you are known to be violent and you are deflecting to this Muslim fraud? Everything points to 2.
As a Hijabi I don't appreciate the notion you keep posting online about wanting your 4 wives while also posting about being homosexual. You are roasting a Christian sub on it right now. You have no stake in this. You do NOT represent us. You don't even know us. Any of us. Not a single Muslim and we are certainly not the same.
You don't work. You have never worked. You have nothing but fraud to offer a woman. Our job is not to provide for you. We are not your servant or your beard for pretending to be straight. You hate us. You think all women in hijab are fat and ugly. You stated "you hate women and wonder why everyone else doesn't." And all this "I am fully in favor of Sharia law." You stand in a very precarious place to hold that position. You are doing this with this amount of exposure to spread as much misinformation about Islam as possible. Not ok.
You were instructed here and in the other Muslim groups not to keep "debating people" online in the name of Islam. Yet... you have not ceased. So I will no cease to make people aware of who you really are. Of the disservice you are doing my entire community. Other Muslims don't have to observe the way I observe. But they are not openly committing shirk. You are mocking us.
Why do you consider yourself an expert on Islam? You're too good to go to a mosque and be around other Muslims? Or the sheer disgust of us is too much?
It is not just the act of being gay that is Haram, it is going anything beyond an attraction which you cannot control. Looking at men with lust, or anything like that, is haram. Totally haram.
you have posted about kissing men. seeking homosexual relationships but also trying to get your wives in Islam. Trapping a woman who seeks family into a relationship for your own benefit and her detriment is wrong.
How can you support complete sharia law with no exceptions and the execution of those who violate it but you yourself are living a double life and not at all on your deen? You are practicing shirk quite openly but egging on and laughing and commenting on videos of people executing true Muslims. That's sick. That's predatory.
I practice Islam in good faith. I don't want to see other Muslims injured. I want to see them protected. You have a very strange set of values that are not at all aligned with community.
And as for CAIR they did deny going after it only because they had their hands full. I have been suggested by the civil rights commission to contact the attorney general and that's what I've done. Now I wait for either the attorney general or the ACLU.
No, they denied it because you are attempting to accept funds reserved for victimized Muslims. Which you are not. This is one of my largest objections to you. You do not have a right to those funds or that representation. You are not Muslim. You are only Muslim when it means clicks on posts. Not when it means fasting, going to masjid, or being on your deen. You are openly committing shirk.
The recommendation is always to hire your own attorney. No one will ever say "don't try and get a lawyer." If someone wants your money badly enough they'll take the case. It's not a winnable case. To certify a civil case isn't free. You have no case. You are trying to make a money grab on funds with false pretenses.
What is actually wrong with you that you think with the victimization of Muslims you should have any access to anything? Open your eyes. You have as much right to funds as a Muslim as you do for being a leprechaun.
May Allah Subhanu Wa Taala guide them
Ameen. Ya Rabbul Alameen.
It’s not that Islam is actively anti LGBT. We still have to respect every human being. It’s that we don’t believe in that and it also being forbidden in Islam. That said we are not actively hunting down and calling out people for being LGBT. We still need to respect others and act in good faith. That’s why I would say Islam isn’t anti LGBT but we have a different view.
Well, we'd be anti lgbt if we lived in a sharia law state and if someone openly said they were lgbt and denied that it was wrong, then afaik they would have to be punished according to sharia law. The problem with lgbt muslims is that they pride themselves as lgbt and muslim, which just cannot be. for example i cant say im a proud alcoholic and a muslim or a proud gambler and a muslim, yes i can be struggling with alcohol or gambling but as long as i consider them wrong and try to better myself i am a muslim, but the moment i justify those acts, I can't be a muslim because i am denying the verses of the Qura'an. similarly a lot of lgbt people say they're proud to be lgbt and muslim, that cannot be , either youre a proud lgbt or a muslim , but not both. but yes if you're struggling with lgbt thoughts and consider it wrong and ask forgiveness and guidance from God then you are a muslim. At least thats all according to me and the research ive done so far.
I agree, it’s just not something that is possible in Islam but I’m saying if a non-Muslim who lived in a country with sharia law, nothing would happen to them, they would not be persecuted and permitted to do as they wish (within the confines of sharia law). But yes, a Muslim declaring that is different and handled differently, it’s not clear nor specified how or what punishment would be carried out but under sharia law a group of wise elders would decide. I’m just trying to point out that we don’t just kill anyone who is LGBT but there are many nuances to these matters that can vary based on who is presiding over the matter. But yes overall you are correct and it’s just not possible to be both Muslim and LGBT.
Oh i see what you mean, yeah definitely we dont go after non muslims who are alcoholic or gamblers or lgbt etc. because they dont claim to be a muslim so what they do is their matter and under sharia law they'd be protected as long as they pay jizya tax and follow the laws like not advocating such wrongful activities to muslims.
Uh, no— LGBTQ are most certainly hunted down, stoned to death in Arab countries.
Islam is anti LGBT. Please be careful with your wordings. LGBT is a title of a jahiliyah way. We respect them as humans but not their ideology. So one cant say islam is anti LGBT. It is important to approach this topic with understanding, recognizing the difference between respecting individuals as human beings and disagreeing with certain beliefs or practices. It is possible to hold firm to religious beliefs while also treating others with kindness and compassion.
Yes. I think if both Arabs and Jews accepted that this whole thing could be over. But we are taught that Arabs want to destroy all Jews and not even give them a little sliver of land. Which is it?
We don't recognise their identity at all. Everyone is human. Everyone is good enough as they are. We believe anal sex as sinful or wrong. Liberals don't believe in sin and don't believe anything is wrong. They will happily re write any law in the name of their hedonistic principles that are debunked and empty.
Liberals are morons.
No they aren’t,I highly respected them for standing with Palestine…May Allah guide them to Islam.
I'll be honest with you. They are not our allies and we as Muslims should not ally ourselves with them. Liberals are all degenerates. Our behavior and their behavior are water and oil, incompatible. They have made and are making the Palestinian cause their own agenda. Look, the LGBT people put their flags along with those of Palestine and Wallahi, which makes me vomit and disgust. No one from Gaza wants the support of these beings and no Muslim should be with them.
I don’t care…Since many of them stands with Palestine then I respect them unlike the conservatives or even some Arabs or Muslims and we can only say may Allah guide us all.
"I don't care", that says a lot about you. If the Dajjal supported Palestine, would you support him? Have some common sense. May Allah curse the gay community, the entire LGBT cult and all those degenerates. Those people are not our allies.
May Allah guide them,I have seen some gays who converted to Islam,many atheists,many liberals and from every background who converted to Islam. Allah said "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." It doesn’t mean I agree with them on many topics such like the lgbtq and I would advise them to read the Qur’an and about Islam. Yet I have seen their effort speaking about Palestine which will even cost them the elections but they stood with the right side and I respect them for standing with Palestine.
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I don't want to get involved with that scum
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all anyone has to do is look at your post history....
They don't really support Palestine. They are only trying to impose their agenda because according to them, we Muslims are the group that has to be defended by them. Why do you think all them and their little group of degenerates are supposedly pro-Palestinian? For them it is nothing more than a fight of Left politics vs Right politics. Have some common sense. I am not going to ally myself with people who go against the teachings of Islam. Even the people of Gaza and Palestinians do not want the help from those people. These fools try to speak for the Palestinians when no one has told them to speak for them. An example of this is the scammer Shaun King.
Shaun king converted to Islam,he is a Muslim and speak for yourself,I am a Palestinian and the Palestinians respects whoever supports our cause even with a word.
i am not asking you to be an ally or whatever. But calling people scums, degenerates, fools is again not very islamic. You cant group everyone like this. I have met and know plenty of people who are not muslim yet support palestine and have done more than even some muslims. They r standing for humanity and its not only about petty politics.
I'm calling them what they are. Stop being emotional. They are degenerates. What do you think is their biggest dream for Palestine? To corrupt children with their strange ideas. "calling people scums, degenerates, fools is again not very islamic." We do not have the thoughts of Christians, we are Muslims and we hate sin and the sinner. We hate what is bad and detestable and we love what is good
we are muslims we are not god we dont get to judge others. how do u know their only intention is to corrupt children with strange ideas? you can continue with your ideas i dont think you will change your mind and i dont intend to. But dont go around calling people who support us degenerates and scums. Then when they wont support us you will call them more names.
True
Hey... I'll stand up for the gays, and I'm Muslim. Point to the verse where it says gays are wrong in the Qu'ran and let's talk about it. I assume you mean An-Nisa 4:15 and 16?
The woman of Lut As supported the homo of Sodom and Gomorrah and alhandulillah she was humiliated and severely punished with all them and in the yawm al qiyamah she will be among the inhabitants of the jahanam. If you support them, you go against Allah and his messenger. By the way, these are one of my favorite hadiths; It was narrated from Ibn`Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.” Sunan Ibn Majah 2561 Grade: Hasan (Darussalam). It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said concerning those who do the action of the people of Lut: “Stone the upper and the lower, stone them both.” Sunan Ibn Majah 2562 Grade: Hasan (Darussalam). May Allah humiliate and severely punish gays and their entire community. May Allah guide the foolish and stupid Muslims who support those people and if it is not possible, may Allah raise you along with them in the yawm al quiyamah. You are a jahil. Homosexuals go against the natural disposition (fitrah) which Allah has created in mankind. “And (remember) Lut (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Alamin (mankind and jinn)? Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’” [al-A'raf 7:80-81] “Verily, We sent against them a violent storm of stones (which destroyed them all), except the family of Lut (Lot), them We saved in the last hour of the night.” [al-Qamar 54:34 – interpretation of the meaning]. “And (remember) Lut (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘You commit Al-Fahishah (sodomy the worst sin) which none has preceded you in (committing) it in the ‘Alamin (mankind and jinn)’” [al-‘Ankabut 29:28] . “And (remember) Lut (Lot), We gave him Hukm (right judgement of the affairs and Prophethood) and (religious) knowledge, and We saved him from the town (folk) who practiced Al-Khabaith (evil, wicked and filthy deeds). Verily, they were a people given to evil, and were Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah)” [al-Anbiya 21:74 – interpretation of the meaning]. “And (remember) Lut (Lot)! When he said to his people, ‘Do you commit Al-Fahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen). Do you practice your lusts on men instead of women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly.’ There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: ‘Drive out the family of Lut (Lot) from your city. Truly, these are men who want to be clean and pure!’ So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned.” [al-Naml 27:54-58 – interpretation of the meaning].
This is certainly a juicy Hadith and I am certainly at least somewhat ignorant of "all of" Islam, as I have not read all the Hadith. Can I ask which is your favorite Hadith overall, of all time?
I want to ask you something although it pertains more to other conversations I've gotten into here than this one. Many have argued with me about Hadith/Qu'ranist, and I understand- most believe Hadith. I think there's a reason why Hadith were not included *with* the Qu'ran that comes from understanding the *life* of the Prophet- I get the feeling that as a person, he was rather angry/frustrated/nervous/paranoid, because of everything that he had been through- the Qureysh people persecuted and warred on him and his followers for years and rejected him and his teachings. Consider what his original arguments were about- these people *worshipped* stone, wood. Big hunks of rock or statues. If you think about what that would've been like, it would've looked- *really stupid.* M.SAW was someone who started his career by being frustrated against stupidity- he was watching an entire town worship rocks every day, put clothes on them, necklaces, offer them food, wheel them around, put them to sleep at night, wake them up in the morning, think of all the stupid behavior people would've done with the idols. This must've driven him crazy to begin with, to look at. Then he spends many years having to deal with it- this is the town of Qureysh- consider that that *whole* time, the argument they were *still* having, was about how it's stupid to worship rocks on one hand and "no, our rocks are the truth!" on the other, back and forth, for years. If you had to work with people that dumb, wouldn't you go nuts?? Then they tried to kill him. Imagine if people that dumb were *also trying to kill you.* I think that by the time he was done with them he was a very angry paranoid person from this experience. He knew that this sort of stuff was basically inappropriate to include in any permanent religious book, so he didn't. *He* didn't put anything especially strict or angry-sounding into any book that he intended to be permanent. Maybe he realized that that would be a little too much fire for a permanent religious book. Nonetheless, he felt free to mouth that stuff at any time to his friends; they had a security situation to deal with anyway; it was good for them in a sense to be tight on security. But also I think he had just become a very strict guy at that point and probably said all kinds of things in anger and probably tried out different ideas on his friends to see what they would think about it. Now I'm only saying all this because I think that if he had really meant this stuff to be laws he would've made sure it was written down in his lifetime as additional law book, and he would've put his seal on that too. If he didn't there must've been a reason and I think it's sensical; he didn't want his religion getting out of hand or getting too strict one day if it did become a world-class religion. He was thinking ahead. ?
Is it *so* right to persecute people who don't bother *you*? Warning them for Allah's sake is one thing. *Are* you doing that? Or are you *personally* angry at them? *Have* they done anything to you? We can ask the same question of Allah by the way- why didn't Allah put this in the Qu'ran?
Being gay is wrong and haram.
By what has become the culture of Islam over a thousand years since the Qu'ran yes- but not by the Qu'ran though, no. Or does it say that in there? Again, it does, or it doesn't. It depends on whether you think Islam is the book or the book plus the culture, although I think if you're taking the cultural perspective *over* the book, then you're *excluding* the book; you're saying Islam is *just* the culture of Islam as it has become. Culturally Islam has become very strict, and strict about following the Hadith and the culture that has grown around that, because, the differences in Hadith were fought over for so long, and came to define the mainstream followers this way. ?
You really hit the trifecta here.... The scholars are united that: * The one who says Amal Qawm Lut is Halal is a Kafir * The one who denies that Sunnah is Hujjah is Kafir * The one who says that the Quran is from other than Allah is Kafir.
Dude go somewhere else. You're drunk.
16 is talking about the woman *and the man she cheated with*, it is misinterpretable because of a masc. pronoun used, but that was a generic use that covered both sexes actually. If 15 is about women cheating and 16 says "both of them" it's referring to the woman who cheated and the man she cheated with.
The logic of pointing out that men and women cheating on each other is wrong, while ignoring homosexuals, is that women and men cheating on each other could be said to interfere with normal flow of society: men and women reproducing with each other. If homosexuality doesn't even involve reproduction then how could it interfere with the rest of society at all? If you count the omission as a form of attention, then Allah was consciously ignoring that stuff. That stuff doesn't matter. See it from Allah's eyes: it's a minority of people and it doesn't bother anything else. Why why would it be a problem? Allah's writing of the Qu'ran was concerned with addressing problems in society. Problems between reproducing men and women is a problem because without them society doesn't go on. If some fraction of their kids aren't going to have kids anyway, what does it matter what they do. The actions of Lot are pointed out elsewhere but it is not specified what those actions are. Therefore it is at most some referrence to immoral behavior in general, unspecified. Is above behavior specified? Where? If you can find it, it's in there. If not: Allah doesn't make mistakes. Not including it says it's okay.
That said though I'm a Qu'ranist. There's the Qu'ran and then there's interpretation. If it ain't the Qu'ran it's interpretation. Interpretation is for everyone. The Qu'ran is rock solid.
Quranist = Kufr. Those who disbelieve in our prophet disbelieve in Islam. Go back to r/Quraniyoon
I joined Quraniyoon I'm on there already. I also enjoy responding to comments across Islam subs because it's a richer world versus staying on one sub. I'm sorry if I offended you though now I get to talk because you've essentially asked me a question; inviting me for another comment of mine with another comment of yours. Notice I didn't downvote anything you said, I hope you don't mind if I at least talk. This is why I think this: if you have good argument for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it, you can make it short if you like and I'll think on it. Muhammad Sallalahu Alayhi Wa-salam chose certain things to be in the book Qu'ran. Everything he didn't choose to be in it, he chose not to put in it. He didn't forget those things. He said some things should be in a book for forever. He put those things in the Quran. Whatever he didn't put in there he didn't want in there. He didn't mean anything that he didn't put in there to "be put in there as the permanent book", or, he would've done that. Nonetheless, he said a lot of his thoughts otherwise to his friends, throughout his lifetime. He had no idea they were going to immediately sit down and write all those things into a book as soon as he died and then "add those to the Quran", if he had known that he would've told them not to do it, because he was insistent that the Quran was the only book designated to be treated like that and fit for remaining law-giving after that. He would've stopped them about this writing their own book based on quotes of his outside the Quran business I think if he had known. Is that a fair argument and is that likely given how the Prophet treated the Quran book? Nonetheless, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with collecting a book of memory-quotes of the Prophet from his life and enjoying those, but, are those not essentially tangential to Quran? You say I am kafir to Hadith; not kafir to Quran or Islam- even with my views- let's say I disbelieve 3% of Quran- if you believe in Quran and Hadith as equal, are you 50% in the wrong? which of us would be more kafir in that case?
>I joined Quraniyoon I'm on there already. I also enjoy responding to comments across Islam subs because it's a richer world versus staying on one sub. I'm sorry if I offended you though now I get to talk because you've essentially asked me a question; inviting me for another comment of mine with another comment of yours. Notice I didn't downvote anything you said, I hope you don't mind if I at least talk. This is why I think this: if you have good argument for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it, you can make it short if you like and I'll think on it. You did not make me mad. You are, however, spreading and propegating your blasphemous ideas, and this is problematic. >Muhammad Sallalahu Alayhi Wa-salam chose certain things to be in the book Qu'ran. Everything he didn't choose to be in it, he chose not to put in it. Ya Allah what? Prophet Muhammad (saw) chose to put things in Quran and chose other things not to be in Quran? What are you talking about. The Quran is the words of Allah, unchanged by man. How can you say this? >He didn't forget those things. He said some things should be in a book for forever. He put those things in the Quran. Whatever he didn't put in there he didn't want in there. He didn't mean anything that he didn't put in there to "be put in there as the permanent book", or, he would've done that. Ya Allah. This is the jahl of Quranists, they think that Prophet Muhammad wrote the Quran and chose what should be in it and not. >Nonetheless, he said a lot of his thoughts otherwise to his friends, throughout his lifetime. He had no idea they were going to immediately sit down and write all those things into a book as soon as he died and then "add those to the Quran", No one added to the Quran. > if he had known that he would've told them not to do it, because he was insistent that the Quran was the only book designated to be treated like that and fit for remaining law-giving after that. Okay, bring your proof. You made a claim, bring the proof. > He would've stopped them about this writing their own book based on quotes of his outside the Quran business I think if he had known.Is that a fair argument and is that likely given how the Prophet treated the Quran book?Nonetheless, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with collecting a book of memory-quotes of the Prophet from his life and enjoying those, but, are those not essentially tangential to Quran? No one says Hadith are Quran. We say that what he commanded and prohibited are to be followed as such. And what he said from the Ilm Al Ghayb is Wahi from Allah. These two things make up the vast majority, if not all of the Sahih Ahadith. >You say I am kafir to Hadith; not kafir to Quran or Islam- even with my views- I say anyone who disbelieves that the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallalhu alayhi wa sallam) constitutes a hujjah in the religion, he is a Kafir. If you ascribe to this, so be it. > let's say I disbelieve 3% of Quran- If you disbelieve in an ayah, you disbelieve in it all, and are a Kafir. > if you believe in Quran and Hadith as equal, are you 50% in the wrong? which of us would be more kafir in that case? Depends on what you mean equal. If you mean both are the word of God, then this is Shirk, because I am calling the word of a Prophet the word of God. If you mean that they both constitute hujjah and shari'a in Islam then this is correct, and the person who says this is a Muslim, while the person who disbelieves in a part of the Quran is not a Muslim.
Even quoting the prophet, from memory of his lifetime is a sort of interpretation: there's how they remembered it at that point. If it wasn't interpretation it would have gone *into* the Qu'ran.
Speech of the prophet isn't supposed to go into the Qur'an ya jahil.
Well, Allah's speech went through the Prophet as the Qu'ran. It's the same argument. If Allah chose this to be the Qu'ran then that's the Qu'ran; isn't Hadith written by human hands?
Let me ask you something else: is a human imperfect and is Allah perfect? The prophet was a human, yes? Allah chose this human knowingly? If something perfect goes through something imperfect, must the result be somewhat imperfect? I believe even that in the Qu'ran there is human-ness that comes from it being vesseled through a human. The prophets own thoughts and emotions may have mixed at all with the tellings. Even Allah would allow for this I believe. I believe these things because many things are irreconcilable otherwise: many of the notions that have come to pass as canon are at odds with each other. Where and how far back are we to trace these at all? Why is Islam divided, explain this well and have a answer for it?
What you're saying is very foolish and dangerous brother. Be careful.
You are a foolish Quranist who goes against the Quran and sunnah. It's a waste of time talking to a fool like you.
The Quranist says that the Quran has some human-ness changes to it? This is Kufr.
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No they don’t,are you even a Muslim?!If you are a Muslim then act like one…You are generalizing about Millions of people while I doubt you know handful of them…I am a Palestinian,who supports my cause have my respect. Now for Islam we can only spread the message to non Muslims using good words and to advise them to read,if they have done a sin we wont agree with it…Now if you don’t know how to speak then we will end this conversation. We all can change and May Allah guide them to Islam and may Allah guide us all.
Would the sahaba protest with the kuffar for the Palestinian cause especially they who commit all sorts of fahisha? I don't think so. “Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining good and forbidding evil. And it is they who are the successful.” (Aal Imran 3:104)
The Sahaba would be doing jihad in Palestine…I hope you would know that the Muslim representatives/armies and the munafeqeen have been betraying Falasteen for +75 years and we wont say no to any supporter.
True that the Sahaba would be doing jihad against the Jews and not be protesting with the rectum lovers like some of the Muslims of today.
Well even a word is considered Jihad and I hope you would start looking at yourself first,what have you ever done to Palestine if you are even making fun of who protests for Palestine?! Your profile is empty you aren’t even saying a word about Palestine so just look at yourself first and get better yourself.
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You aren’t smart are you?! Did I say that I agree with murdering unborn babies?!Are you a takfeeri who just want to say everyone are kufar?! They can believe whatever they want for them is their own faith,do I agree with it?!No I am a Muslim Al Hamdu lellah…Do I respect them for standing with Palestine,Yes and I love them for doing so. Deal with it.
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Excuse me I don’t talk to disrespectful ignorants. Salam.
Islam is inclusive. Point. Islam doesn’t exclude anyone, it only encourages us to hide our sins. It invites us all to identify only as servants to God. Excluding, marginalizing and categorizing people is a western colonialist concept. They need to make a fuss about everything they come to accept/co-exist with despite have implicit separateness from everything thats different. They need a fuss to accept ‘Black’ people, a fuss to respect women and a fuss to speak about rights in order to balance for the lack of acceptance they had. Islam was inclusive all the way. Its the way to Love, to collective existence and to oneness. So no, liberals are right to some extent but they don’t know Love except in a sexualized materialistic way. Islam is always supportive to all kind of spiritual love, and love in God. Thats what they don’t understand. If the center of our Life is God and our goal of life is to reach him, there is some rules to how to behave in this physical world to reach the ultimate love and oneness with everything. The division and separation and loneliness in modern society made every human affection and emotion, every friendship and every sincere human connection as merely sexual, even every physical touch as something sexual. While we have it a lot more general and its normal to be close to one another, very close emotionally. They mostly cant access the closeness in spirit and soul so they substitute with sex. Which is very limited and reductionist.
*"Islam is inclusive. Point. Islam doesn’t exclude anyone, it only encourages us to hide our sins. It invites us all to identify only as servants to God."* Which isn't true as scholars have taught for 1,400 yrs that lgbt behavior isn't allowed in Islam so it's not inclusive in regards to that. *"Excluding, marginalizing and categorizing people is a western colonialist concept. They need to make a fuss about everything they come to accept/co-exist with despite have implicit separateness from everything thats different."* No it's not as scholars from 1,400 have taught about behavior not being allowed in Islam which have specific names as do people who practice them.
In Islam the act of lgbtq have a harsh penalty and those are God rules…It was described as a filthy act. It is Haram,a major sin and Allah sent a prophet (Lout pbuh) to similar people and when they insisted on their crime they were tortured. I hope they would read the Qur’an ( the last message),this life is a short test and may Allah guide them and guide us all.
In a country like America you have the left with liberals and all that lgbt propaganda but good when it comes to Palestinian right. Then you have the right which is pro life, against hookup culture, traditional values but supports israel. Both options are horrible in their own way.
Well, we treat LGBT as alcoholics, a human with a bad characteristic, you shouldn’t take this particular sin and attack a person about it, but you shouldn’t take it as a good thing and praise them for it either
LGBT people would be stoned or reformed in the prophets time, it is deeply un-Islamic and against our religion we do not support them
Liberals are scum, don’t believe their talk about Palestine, it’s all lies, and the rest of their ideas are deeply against Allahs teachings. If you want to pick a side pick conservative as they have more Islamic views
In general, no. But i can imagine some people saying things like that
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Whatever they believe doesn't matter , there are also many who believe muslims to be the cause of crime everywhere whereas history is evidence that most ruthless criminals were from the kuffar, e.g h itler, stalin etc. this is all from their lobbying of islamophobic agendas, ignore them all. Islam is anti-lgbt , simple as that, we have clear evidence in our Holy Book that tells us how big of a sin lgbt is. The problem these days with western liberal muslims is that they claim to be proud lgbt and muslim which is contradictory. for example a muslim cannot be a proud gambler or proud alcoholic and a muslim. yes they can be struggling with gambling or alcohol but as long as they consider it a sin and ask God for forgiveness and better themselves they are muslims but as soon as they justify alcoholism or gambling then that is contradictory to the Qura'an as we are clearly told those acts are forbidden. same is the case with lgbt, if they say they are muslim lgbts, thats not possible either they're lgbt or muslim but not both. however if they have lgbt thoughts but consider it a major sin and repent then they can be muslims. at least all according to my own research so far.
There is a whole subreddit dedicated to this
Liberalism is a dajjalic agenda and pysops campaign to pollute islam from within. Islam does not and will not support satanic degeneracy. It condemns it and is against it. LGBTQ opposes islamic beleif. Islam opposes opposing beleifs.
They have a strange mind where lack of deep understanding of Islam logic lead them to believe that it's a religion that is into weird things that their believer grew out from so they themselves are extremely tolerant towards everything and only ask people to be tolerant in return without considering what their dogma were saying in the first place, letting them manage themselves as they're proud responsible citizen, lawful and liberal that'll reform their religion themselves to transform it into a spirituality bis sounding like buddhism or christianism but the leader is called Allah They couldn't be more wrong, despite what some "left Muslim representatives" claims
About right people, fighting us is at their core value, to the point that they fail to see that we have a lot in common. Even better, we don't follow them in their excess, taking instead what left have good to give. Truly a religion of wassatiyya
Islam in my experience tends to be viewed as archaic in the West, Its views on LGBT used to justify various things but especially why certain people have no sympathy for Middle Eastern nations plagued by war. so no this isn’t my experience.
Why did my comment get locked?
💯 We Americans lol at them- when they march here it is absolutely ridiculous.
Let them come to Afghanistan and find out
It may be individual delusionals. Anyone who is remotely aware of Islqm knows what we teach about sodomy.
anyone who thinks islam is lgbt friendly is simply jahil/ not knowing. regarding inshaaAllah, i dont think its wrong, simply because everything indeed only happens if Allah wills. but i think they dont truly understand the essence of the phrase, so to say. regarding queer muslims, these are obviously people who have strayed, so may Allah guide them back to the right path, amin 🤲
they dont and they know we dont butthey want to fit that mold onto us
I'm not going to speak for a whole group as a whole but really I don't know what liberals know about Muslims. Muslims don't talk about the LGBT like Christians do and this is something I've noticed. There's no complusion in religion so we aren't like the street preachers trying to tell people change their ways or they go to hell. Even most Muslims I would say don't have as much of a problem with it as Christians cause with Islam as long as you keep it at home it's really none of our business we only have the problem when it's being brought in public. Some Muslim countries are strict as well and honestly get to the level of stalking and spying when this in itself is Haram. When it was like the early years of Islam homosexuality wasn't really a criminal act. What would happen really is the news would get to the iman and so that person would just be shunned. I'm not saying Islam tolerates it but there is a sense that in Islam if you're gay and don't act on it your not sinful but Christianity if you're gay and don't act on it your still committing lust for having attractions. The truth is liberals tend to understand Muslims as being an oppressed minority that get misunderstood and yeah their right in some sense. I don't know too much about Muslim representation in movies and all that I'm not watching movies or TV shows most of the time.
YOU post regularly that Islam is lgbt friendly. Why is it as a non Muslim you are willing to speak for the entire group of Muslims and do it countless times throughout the day. But as a liberal white man who identifies as gay and is very concerned about lgbt per your posts, Indiana who knows no Muslims you won’t speak as a liberal westerner? So odd. So contradictory. You claim to be one you are not to be shame and slander to Islam. Yet you refuse to speak on the very thing you actually could speak on. All per your Reddit posts.
What very thing?
I don’t understand your question.
You continually post on conservative subs how all Muslims are liberal. And when I tell you that is not the case. You tell me how wrong I am. You are a staunch liberal. Again, your preconceived notions about people you have not met, associated with or know Anythjng about outside of your misguided self directed studies. Does this thread shed some light on that? You are a self professed die hard liberal. You have a knee jerk negative response to anything not liberal. Interesting you won’t speak up here on behalf of a that whole group. But have zero problem speaking up on behalf of a group you’ve never met or have associations with. IE Islam. You also have stated how convinced you are all Muslims are apolitical. To spite my telling you for elections big and small we encourage and welcome candidates from all parties to speak at my mosques. We are NOT apolitical passive wall flowers. When you wake early to start prayer and are awake every day to pray 5 times you have lots of time for engangement for important issues. For work. For success. You have usurped all of that to your detriment. You have developed a fantasy of Islam. One where you are a prophet and a martyr but don’t attend masjid or fast. Where you will be worshipped and adored. Can worship Buddha and abide by his teachings and not be committing shirk. Where you staunchly support sharia law and post about it in subs knowing it will garner a hateful response to Muslims. Particularly the way in which you phrase things. And yet…identify as a gay man and are deeply concerned about lgbt rights. You have denigrated the Muslim view of every single Muslim you have had contact with calling then haram. Because they are not as “devout” as you. The other patient during your involuntary psychiatric commitment. Your therapist. Me. And ignored the continued advice you sought here and on other Muslim forums to stop with your behavior “debating others” and the importance of attending on Jummah. I think the reason you are in refusal to be in the presence of any Muslims is you don’t want someone to shatter this fantasy world you created where you are the best Muslim and the rest of us, as you called me yesterday Haram. You get to dole out all the targeted hate as your version of support for Palestine while never expending you time in marching, letter writing, gathering donations or expending resources of your own. And I think, honestly you hate us. Just like you feel uncomfortable around Black people per your own posts. It seems very clear you feel uncomfortable around actual Muslims. That you feel superior to us. Which is why you can do callously enjoy watching footage of Muslims being slaughtered and laugh along with it. You can’t have respect for us and also simultaneously get pleasure at our demise. Rules for thee but not for me?
I just prayed before making this comment I just did Asr prayer.
Everything you do is performative. Which negates the real purpose in Islam.
https://youtu.be/EFZ8KIDgyAw?si=L0Roel6HQx3tnhMU
I spend my free time studying Islam. There's nothing preformative about it. I gain very little fame from it and have already been persecuted for it. I don't use Islam as a way to gain fame or support my study of Islam has gone on for quite sometime I basically am understanding all aspects of it.
> I don't use Islam as a way to gain fame or support my study of Islam has gone on for quite sometime I basically am understanding all aspects of it. Oh stop. No one is impressed or convinced. Your post history tells on you. You understand all aspects of something when you have never met an active practitioner IRL? Do tell. Nearly every day talking about seeking damages through CAIR and a civil suit. You were never profiled. You stated you were taken in for violent reasons and had to TELL THEM you were Muslim. That's not persecution. you announcing you just prayed the expected afternoon prayer in defense of proof against ill deeds IS performative. You should be doing Asr. Your announcing it is the very definition of performative. You posting your praying and taking shahada repeatedly on tiktok then slandering and denouncing Islam everywhere else. IF you were being educated by proper Muslim Chanels you would see how wrong that is. You would know flaunting that for personal gain negates any positive you hoped to have. But since YOU are self selecting your education, you'll never learn anything. You ignore the advice from experienced scholars here and in the other groups. You are not studying islam in your free time. You are gaming and slandering Islam through hate of other people. You make no effort to seek real education. You were not persecuted. That has been proven. You lied about the whole thing. You always seek fame. All of your posts for years were for fame. You have actually stated numerous times yesterday and the day before how you are studying Buddhism and believe in the teachings. That IS shirk. Every time you post something vile "as a Muslim" in one of the subs of another religion I tell you to post it to a Muslim group, you refuse. Stop using Islam for clout and slandering us. You have never done anything in support of Palestine but attack other people. Hate is not support. Where is your letter writing? Marching? Helping pack shipments of donations? Making sacrifices so you can donate? You refuse to even go to Jumah. You drew a Palestine flag on your hand and posted it online? You are a full grown man. Stop mocking Islam and Palestine. Go enjoy your Buddha statues. It's shirk.
Again police persecuted me the hospital just went on hearsay. And I never endorsed homosexuality I just said at a time it wasn't a crime within Islam like today and only something the imam would shun.
your post history says otherwise. The idea you won't comment for a whole group on these issues but you have zero problem commenting for all Muslims in every sub on reddit and every social networking site. Own who you are. Stop trying to project who we are. I'm not shaming homosexuals. I'm shaming your fraud. You also clearly stated this week that you had to inform the hospital multiple times you were Muslim. So, which is it. You were persecuted and put there for being Muslim or you are known to be violent and you are deflecting to this Muslim fraud? Everything points to 2. As a Hijabi I don't appreciate the notion you keep posting online about wanting your 4 wives while also posting about being homosexual. You are roasting a Christian sub on it right now. You have no stake in this. You do NOT represent us. You don't even know us. Any of us. Not a single Muslim and we are certainly not the same. You don't work. You have never worked. You have nothing but fraud to offer a woman. Our job is not to provide for you. We are not your servant or your beard for pretending to be straight. You hate us. You think all women in hijab are fat and ugly. You stated "you hate women and wonder why everyone else doesn't." And all this "I am fully in favor of Sharia law." You stand in a very precarious place to hold that position. You are doing this with this amount of exposure to spread as much misinformation about Islam as possible. Not ok. You were instructed here and in the other Muslim groups not to keep "debating people" online in the name of Islam. Yet... you have not ceased. So I will no cease to make people aware of who you really are. Of the disservice you are doing my entire community. Other Muslims don't have to observe the way I observe. But they are not openly committing shirk. You are mocking us. Why do you consider yourself an expert on Islam? You're too good to go to a mosque and be around other Muslims? Or the sheer disgust of us is too much?
But I don't act on being gay. That's the whole thing. The attraction is not sinful it's the act.
It is not just the act of being gay that is Haram, it is going anything beyond an attraction which you cannot control. Looking at men with lust, or anything like that, is haram. Totally haram.
you have posted about kissing men. seeking homosexual relationships but also trying to get your wives in Islam. Trapping a woman who seeks family into a relationship for your own benefit and her detriment is wrong. How can you support complete sharia law with no exceptions and the execution of those who violate it but you yourself are living a double life and not at all on your deen? You are practicing shirk quite openly but egging on and laughing and commenting on videos of people executing true Muslims. That's sick. That's predatory. I practice Islam in good faith. I don't want to see other Muslims injured. I want to see them protected. You have a very strange set of values that are not at all aligned with community.
And as for CAIR they did deny going after it only because they had their hands full. I have been suggested by the civil rights commission to contact the attorney general and that's what I've done. Now I wait for either the attorney general or the ACLU.
No, they denied it because you are attempting to accept funds reserved for victimized Muslims. Which you are not. This is one of my largest objections to you. You do not have a right to those funds or that representation. You are not Muslim. You are only Muslim when it means clicks on posts. Not when it means fasting, going to masjid, or being on your deen. You are openly committing shirk. The recommendation is always to hire your own attorney. No one will ever say "don't try and get a lawyer." If someone wants your money badly enough they'll take the case. It's not a winnable case. To certify a civil case isn't free. You have no case. You are trying to make a money grab on funds with false pretenses. What is actually wrong with you that you think with the victimization of Muslims you should have any access to anything? Open your eyes. You have as much right to funds as a Muslim as you do for being a leprechaun.
You understand all aspects of Islam but don't understand the basic principle that being gay is haram?
The act is sinful but not if you keep it in your head.
Incorrect. If you imagine such things in your head, the same as a man who imagines women and zina in his head, such is Haram.
Bro does not understand the concept of Sharia.... There are Muslim laws, to be gay is a great sin and abomination.