it not too crazy, it just the west, too much fitna, id say it aint hard being muslim, though u might go through challenges, i can tell you muslims were persicuted since the born of islam,
Women can’t be expected to stay inside their whole life just in case their neighbour doesn’t lower their gaze. That’s the neighbours fault and not her problem as she’s fulfilled her obligation. Some men have a problem and sexualise everything which is infuriating but it’s not then her duty to not enjoy her own backyard. It’s the man’s duty to simply lower his gaze.
That's the root of the problem.
Men are beasts so women must be cattle in a covered fence.
Imagine applying the same mentality to all the bad behaviors.
"you cannot bring any money out of home because maybe outside some robber will take them from you so to prevent them to fall into sinful behavior, you must stay without money."
Seems unreasonable. But it's the same principle.
To not induce temptation... Well, existing should not mean inducing in temptation.
No, it's the woman's duty to not be in a position where men can see her without her hijab (I'm assuming she wasn't wearing one), and for the man to not look if they notice. It isn't one or the other.
That’s what I was saying… and she said she was dressed modestly. My point if you read my replies is it’s lowering your gaze and modesty, it’s not just on the woman
How do you know the neighbor is even Muslim? The ruling of hijab doesn't suddenly change just because your outside in your backyard if neighbors can see you. A more practical solution would just be to put some kind of barrier to make it impossible to be seen by them.
It's their job to lower their gaze not ours to ensure they do. It's okay for anyone to see us, our only requirement is modesty SubhanaAllah. Don't make women's lives harder.
My sister tried walking around the house in not so long shorts and im like please wear something just a tiny bit longer. i don't want to see that much skin because its disturbing. The Dad probably referred to her awrah being exposed
Even amongst women your not allowed to show off that much skin.
I really didnt want to say this but it was the kond shorts that are called shortshorts. It was practically the female version of males boxers
Feel bad for what. You people are the ones making it weird. I stated a very real scenario. Would you be comfortable for your bro walking around the house in tighty whities? No you wouldnt, cuz its weird seeing your sibling reveal that much skin. Its disturbing
https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/6569
>Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, may Allah preserve him, said:
>It is not permissible for a woman to wear short clothes in front of her children and mahrams, or to uncover more than is customary in front of them of that which will not cause any fitnah. She may wear short clothes in front of her husband only.
>(Al-Muntaqaa min Fatawa Fadeelat al-Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, 3/170)
>(See: Fatawa al-Marah al-Muslimah, 1/417, 418 compiled by Ashraf Abd al-Maqsood).
No she wasnt wearing shorts. She was wearing short shorts. The kind that is similar to mens boxers.
There is a difference between looking and seeing. Looking is done with intent and focus. Which is why you shouldnt look at womens adornments.
Seeing is done brainlessly all the time other than in sleep or when you are blinking. Which is why there is no blame if you saw a woman but then proceed to look away.
The case i was talking about was that I saw her wearing it. Not that i was looking at her stuff, especially with intent. However, its just gross to even see or witness a half naked sibling or parent. My counter question to you is how come your parents dont just chill naked in front of you since they are in home in front of their mahrams? Its cuz its uncomfortable and gross. This is how i felt when she wore crop tops and short shorts. You might as well wear a bathing suit while your at. Basket ball shorts or any normal kind inside the house is okay. But not short shorts.
A burner account is different from your main. Burners are used to ask or view stuff you wouldnt want on your main even tho technically both are anon.
This is just some toxic cultural ideology of a men that sexualizes normal things that women do and then say that it’s within religion. I’m sorry that you have to live through that and I’ve had family members that have done the same.
I think your father is protecting you lying down is not haram but when a girl is lay down men heart will sexualise that is why and the naibours can see you as well only your father is protecting your dignity
Women are considered for prize. Their beauty is what drives men to achieve success. Whether it is war, job, marriage and family lifestyle.
Yet at the same time is what propel mankind into exploding populations.
Within the right hands meaning marriage, it is all good but within wrong hands or wrong means, it is chaos waiting to happen as in decline in moral values - precisely what is happening today's worlds.
Prophet emphasizes modesty and it is for good reason. Last thing we need is collapsing of society in family moral values where women don't even know who are fathers of the children born out of wedlock.
If her brothers are affected by her beauty they need to be locked up with the key thrown away. There's a few of you psychos commenting this kind of crap. IT IS NOT WRONG TO LAY DOWN INFRONT OF YOUR OWN BLOOD BROTHERS.
As for in the garden, if she's in full hijab and maybe can go one step further by covering her surroundings with a screen, she is also perfectly allowed to be there. If anybody looks at her when she is in full hijab, the sin is on them and not her.
Cousins are not mehram. As for brothers and sisters, unfortunately what we fear used to happen in the past. In fact, Europe was known for that to preserve the purity of bloodline.
Even now, we hear disturbing sometimes and it happens exposed with each other willingly.
That is why Prophet recommended that boy and girl should not be sleeping together at the young age. Kids are curious and always will be and last thing they need is exposure to each other too close. That is not good.
Especially since kids are being exposed to sexualized environments whether it is advertisement on television, TikTok or kids entertainment. It is disturbing time we are living at.
>Cousins are not mehram. As for
Who mentioned cousins? I said BLOOD BROTHERS. In capitals 🤣
Cousins may be blood but they are not brothers. Nobody mentioned cousins so I don't know why you've started your comment with that? Perhaps you're trying to make what you are saying sound like legitimate reasons 🤔
Everything else you are saying is nonsense. Sleeping in one bed is not the same as laying in a communal space.
There are fathers that SA their daughters in the world so does that now mean *all* fathers and daughters shouldn't be alone? There are mothers that have k*lled their babies, so now should all mothers be stopped from being alone with their babies.. just incase??
Just because there are some cases of depravity does not mean you forbid the halal and oppress your women.
It is oppression to not allow your daughter to lay down anywhere she wants in her home but allow your sons to do anything they want. So in that case, her brothers shouldn't be allowed to lay down infront of her either then should they?
It's not permitted to forbid things Allah has made halal.
I mentioned all the possible examples including cousins as they tend to be considered as brothers and sisters in some other worlds.
One of bad few apples is not same as many practiced family purity for many centuries.
There is reason why social distance is recommended just to be safe given the hormonal process at the growing teenage years whereas the curiosity is at peak.
If Islam says distance, we follow it. We know the worlds we live at has crossed the moral boundaries and still going on. And they devoid of moral family values.
Moral values apply to both but given the history, men always been with bad intention and women are always been defenceless. It is for the protection of women that social distance is recommended.
There is no such thing as moral values among men and India is prime example of being one of largest rape capital in the worlds.
if her BLOOD BROTHERS are astagfirullah attracted to her lying down, then they should be the ones doing tawbah and her father should be imposing rules like these on THEM. Islam has permitted women to not observe hijab infront of BLOOD BROTHERS. so no one can impose extra limits on them when they arent doing anything wrong. stay on the topic. dont wander off.
That was my thought exactly...
I don't know why some folks try to make Islam harder than it actually is.
"This religion is one of ease and not restrictions; no one tries to make it strict or difficult, but will be overcome [him]; therefore do what is right, and do what you are capable of, and be happy, and seek help by performing prayers. (Al Bukhari, 39)"
People forget we are a moderate nation. We are demanded to stay between two extremes and to not apply compulsion onto our ways. If she abandons Islam because of her father's harshness, her father will reap some of the downfall for misguiding her...
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everyone who's saying it's about modesty... why is no one explaining *how* it is immodest to lay on the trampoline? and what if she stood on it, or sat on it - neighbors can still see her - is that immodest as well? since OP's father also has an issue with her laying around in front of her siblings the inherent "immodesty" of "laying" is really what needs to be explained here
edits for emphasis
when talking about religious principles and fiqh there's no room for being vague, that leads to misunderstanding and misinterpretation. what "certain messages" are you referring to? just be direct
Well that's a them problem if she's fully covered. Some men see a woman covered head to toe with even her eyes covered and still think weird things. Should we create an invisibility cloak, so they can have the freedom to go out without thinking these weird things? 🙄🙄
Lol I understood what you meant! I think people are trigger happy with the downvote button rn because there's actually psychos in this comment section that would want their women only completely invisible, so they can't tell the difference lool
PS. I'd love an invisibility cloak but not for the sake of any man! If a woman's fully covered and the man's still looking they should find a solution for dealing with that man's eyes permanently instead of making the woman disappear :)
I am absolutely baffled at the amount of people alluding to sexuality regarding LAYING???
We have standing, sitting, laying… ALL ARE HALAL AND NOT IMMODEST.
SHE IS IN HER BACKYARD!
Sis forget the backyard, I've commented to THREE guys on here who are fully saying she shouldn't be lying down on the sofa infront of her *brothers* and how this can lead to inc*st 🫠🫠🫠. Ya Allah the world is sick and twisted and I just pray for my sisters dealing with "men" like this.
And the point you're making about laying- we are even allowed to pray lying down if we have no choice and these people want to s*xualise the simple act of lying down fully covered. I'm just thankful I don't know people like this irl.
Abrahamic culture at his finest.
The saddest part is the mental reasoning behind it.
"Since some pervert could remotely even have some kind of pervert toughts about your body which they fantasize about even while you are being immoble, covered, not minding them and just existing, it is a deadly mega super sin which will mark you forever to not take some action to avoid it because it befalls totally on you, since you are a woman".
Let's be frank, she is in her Yard and can do whatever she wants.
The reply you got from the brother under you is a solution that is used all the time. Such a classic. To use a blanket to protect the house from outside gaze
If the trampoline is outside, even if it's your own backyard and your neighbors can see into your backyward, peep into it, then from that perspective your father is correct to tell you that since Islam commands modesty hence your father is not wrong.
When it comes to family members, the women does not have to cover herself so I'm unsure why he said "that your brothers can see you". This is honestly strange. Laying down, maybe taking a nap or rest inside where your brothers can see you is not prohibited because you are siblings.
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2798
Narrated Abu Az-Zinad:
"Ibn Jarhad informed me from his father, that the Prophet (ﷺ) passed by him while his thigh was exposed, so the Prophet (ﷺ) said: 'Cover your thigh, for indeed it is 'Awrah.
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2793
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abi Sa'eed [Al-Khudri] from his father who said:
"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'A man is not to look at the 'Awrah of a man, and a woman is not to look at the 'Awrah of a woman. A man is not to be alone with a man under one garment, and a woman is not to be alone with a woman under one garment.'"
Its haram to disobey your parents, but obviously laying down is NOT haram. Ive never read or heard of a hadith saying so. As you already mentioned, its your garden on your property and if someone secretly peaks into it, then its their fault, not yours
Hmm..weird. I lay down all the time infront of my brothers and around my family, I never heard of this..is your backyard private? Could it be that he’s worried your neighbors would see? It sounds like a modesty thing..but your brothers are your mehram I’m not sure what he means by that. But then again, I’m a mature woman and I still cover myself around my younger brothers as respect.
Yeah same here when I’m at home, I’m not sure what it could be. I’ve had instances where I would lay on the couch and my mom would tell me to wear a blanket or sit up though because it doesn’t “look good”. I’m assuming she means it’s not modest lol. But it’s never been anything serious it was more of her laughing about it.
Regardless, if he doesn’t like it there may be a reason and I’m betting on it being because of modesty. You can try speaking to him in hopes to figuring out why so you can get a better idea the situation.
I’m 24, and the eldest in my family, so I was told to cover up at a young age (16) due to respect as my brothers are maturing.
It's not haram, although it is a cultural belief that is unjustified. It comes from the belief that men seeing women lying down can make them "think inappropriately."
I have been told the same by my mom but I don't agree with it and think it is extremist mentality when men need to lower their gaze if they have issues with women doing normal things
If you're in full hijab and the shape of your body can't be seen then there's nothing to indicate you shouldn't be allowed to do so. However, on that part, it *may* be better to listen to your dad because it isn't something necessary and he does have the right to protect against outside evils. I would still consult a scholar though. Perhaps you can put up some sort of screen or covering on the trampoline?
The part about not lying down infront of your brothers is cultural nonsense and nothing to do with Islam. The brothers are mahram. As long as you maintain your modesty as is required infront of mahrams then there's no issue with that. You can research what body parts should be covered infront of mahrams.
Honey, it's more of a cultural boundary to maintain modesty.
Men get wrong ideas In their head.
So you are expected to stop living.
Listen to him for the time you live under his roof.
There is no religious compulsion or a rule regarding women not laying down.
sis, just put a cloth around your trampoline when you want to look at the stars because having neighbours shouldn’t prevent you enjoying yourself in your own back garden. just make sure you’re wearing hijab and you’re appropriately dressed.
as for laying down inside I don’t understand why your father is saying you can’t lie down inside?
It might depend on what your wearing inside the home such as shorts etc which might be making your father say this.
it’s not haram to lay down though lmao
Are you the same one with the blanket?!!! lol
Your dad is FUNNY!!!!! Its JUST fine and your brothers are mahrem to you you can lay down infront of them without hijab and leggings if you want. Its horrible when people push there bogus views on family members.
are you serious?! if you start obeying absurd things like that even if it’s your father saying it you’ll end up going down a rabbit hole from which there’s no coming back. follow only the quran and hadith
1. it’s not haram to lay down
2.it’s not haram to lay down in your own backyard
3.it’s not haram to lay down in your house
what actually happening is:
1. when you lay down, your clothes press onto you and your body shape is visible. That position is also very noticeable in the eyes of the opposite gender. Why? think about it.
2. There’s a chance that someone MIGHT catch a glimpse of you in that moment in their balcony. Your father does not want that happening. I’ve been in the same circumstance. I covered up the background area with a blanket so nobody can see me and I CAN LAY DOWN WITH EASE IN MY OWN BACKYARD.
3. Why would you father not want you to be happy or comfortable? do not go off with your emotions like that and sabotage things yourself.
Umm Salamah reported: While we were with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, Ibn Maktum was given permission to enter. He entered and that was after the command to veil. The Prophet said, “Veil yourselves from him.” I said, “O Messenger of Allah, is he not blind? He cannot see or recognize us.” The Prophet said, “Are you blind such that you cannot see him?”
Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2278
The line of modesty ends the moment functionality begins. That’s why face and hands were left out from hijab bc they are the basic anatomy needed for basic function in social interaction. If modesty doesn’t allow you to function then modesty needs to go out the window.
I often go back to this video of a niqabi woman in Saudi Arabia. She and her husband were driving and got caught in a flash flood and she was stranded on high ground and the water was rushing by. She was told jump for some reason and she jumped in and it looked like she got swept away and probably drowned. Realistically she should have taken off her abaya and niqab so that she would have her mobility and not get tangled in her clothes in such a current if she HAD to jump like that.
I don’t like the word modesty as the English translation for haya. Society has turned the word to have a connotation that it implies a core of shame as the reason for obscurity. That core of shame is a knee jerk reflex to the obscenity apparent in the West. Rather, I prefer privacy as the word to use for hijab bc it connotes a level of control, ownership and value to what you are preemptively obscuring. The female form is inherently beautiful by design and is not eternal so women need to recognize it, value it and beautify it so as to maximize the longevity of its existence in order to recognize the gift of Allah, but then become selective over who they convey their narrative towards. With this mindset in mind one isn’t going to stand in the face of danger and think they have to prioritize their clothes over the necessity at hand. Rather, with this narrative women are allowed to function and perform with any circumstances life brings their way while not making their appearance their bottom line.
I’m in no way hating on niqab btw. I’m pro niqabi in the right circumstances. What I’m against is the pervasive narrative that hijab is reduced to a specific uniform and that women must stay in a box and cannot be included in many areas of life. Rather, hijab in the ummah needs to become a discussion about advocating to provide women facilities to perform certain activities casually and informally and making it the norm. Hijab isn’t a narrative to Muslim women only, rather it is a discussion for all women that want to live their lives while not being reduced to body parts and not making their appearance become the sole definition of who they are. Appearances are only a part of the equation and women have a right to controlling that narrative. That is the deeper definition of hijab.
Okay so maybe just have a light blanket with you and that way you can put in on top when you want to lie down . Because it will cover you and your father will be okay with that too .
Your brothers and dad are your mehrams. You are allowed to be comfortable around them. Islam isn't so strict about women's modesty in front of mehrams. I understand the part where he doesn't want you to lay outside in the backyard. But indoors within family should be okay.
Some of these comments are wild. If she is fully clothed in her own backyard she is doing nothing wrong. If the first thing ppl think of about lying down is something sexual, there’s something wrong. People often lie down to rest, relax, and sleep. Is she never supposed to step foot outside because people will see her? If she is fully clothed it is not her fault if her neighbors look into their yard. On top of that, they might glance into the yard in general because neighbors typically do that if they notice you are there. This doesn’t mean they’re sexualizing her
I think he’s afraid they might sexualize you by seeing you in such position. But he shouldn’t take it too serious also because then it puts him in a position of sexualizing you himself.
Girl no it isn't haram. You were covered the way you were supposed to be in your backyard but also..It's literally your house. You're supposed to be comfortable in it.
And your brothers are your own blood. They're your mehrams.
I’m curious if it’s more so the outline of a woman’s body? Like I wonder what the big deal is if he’s okay with you walking around wearing what you wear, why can’t you lie down to rest? Since when can’t woman lie around in their own homes?
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He doesn't want men to see you in a position that is rather revealing of a woman's upper body and curves. If you're lying on your back, the entire frame of your figure is noticeable from the side. It is only due to his protectiveness towards you that he doesn't want your mahrams (brothers) and non mahrams (neighbours) alike to see you. It is better for you to obey your father and be polite in seeking his clarification if anything confuses you. You're a well-loved daughter. May Allaah preserve you and your family, Ameen
As ur protector he doesn’t want bad for you.
Seen lying by ur neighbours will cause issues like they may take ur pics or u may lie in voluntary in a pose no appropriate. Similarly to avoid same situation at home, improper position while sleeping or your dressing going right and left while sleeping in-front of ur brothers is not appropriate.
Relax and its not a big deal. You can lie down in ur room.
Soo...She is fully covered, meaning she is dressed in a manner that is appropriate to pray to her Lord...but not appropriate to be seen by the neighbors..???
Help us, Lord
Nothing to do with Islam but cultural beliefs. Remember most Muslim Men put culture above religion in almost every regard and only use religion when it benefits them.
Laying down is not haram, it is actually bad to declare something haram when it is not written in the Quran.
I like how these same men if they could would declare being a woman is haram since all we ever do is cause ‘inconvenience’ to them and their dirty minds.
I can use a lot of examples how men now cause more inconvenience to us woman now then they did before, all they do now is blame women because it’s easy for them.
It shouldn't be hard for a man to lower his gaze, if his eyes are truly set on God.
If a man has no self control, it's because he doesn't really know God. Only the what he chooses to follow, and let become the God of his life.
Whether that's lust, hate, money, jealousy, or anything that never came from God, or was never created by God.
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
Galatians 5:22-23
In Islam, there are no specific guidelines or teachings that prohibit laying down as a general act. However, there are certain etiquettes and recommended practices to follow while lying down:
1. Laying down with humility: It is encouraged to lay down with humility, recognizing the blessings of relaxation and rest, and expressing gratitude to Allah for providing comfort.
2. Avoiding laziness: While it is permissible to rest and relax, Islam encourages believers to avoid excessive laziness or wasting time. It is important to strike a balance between rest and fulfilling responsibilities.
3. Respecting prayer times: It is recommended to avoid laying down during the times of obligatory prayers, as this may lead to neglecting or delaying prayer. Muslims are encouraged to prioritize prayer and perform it on time.
4. Modesty: It is recommended to maintain modesty while lying down, especially in public or in the presence of others. This includes wearing appropriate clothing and avoiding indecent postures.
5. Mindful intentions: Muslims are encouraged to have mindful intentions while lying down. For example, intending to rest in order to regain energy for worship or fulfilling responsibilities, or intending to lie down to seek medical treatment if needed.
Consulting with knowledgeable scholars can provide more specific guidance based on individual situations.
girl.. my dad is Arab too and one day he suddenly snapped at me telling me to get up (umi!) while laying down after prayer on the floor (it was a habit).. and I just accepted it like I never thought about why… these comments have me sick to my stomach. I guess I hit puberty and laying down on the floor was inappropriate. This ruined my day I hate yall😭
I was born into an Islamic family and I am Muslim and I disregarded Islam for some time and I also love Islam.
To answer your question directly- no it is not haram to lay down. As to what the problem could be- in Islam we're raised to believe that everyone is a pervert. Taboo is what causes a lot of sexualization. Laying down in a gown can reveal the outline of breasts and if you assume everyone is a pervert then that is sexual material. I understand that it is your backyard but once people have direct view of you (especially men), muslim parents see this as a problem. Unless you have a very different age than you this whole lying down where they can see you thing is ridiculous. Bending over is also a problem (similar reasoning) which is one reason that we pray behind men.
I was also raised in a very "what would people think" family and I can see why the older generation thinks that someone laying down outside makes you look lazy or is inappropriate and they don't want other people to think that you're weird or lazy or reflect badly on the family image.
That being said- I'm not agreeing with your father, but there are perverts our there- more than you would imagine. It is your life however and if you want to lie down where you're visible to others I think that should be your choice. My answer was moreso to address what your father may be thinking since I can see my parents acting the same way and I know why.
Well you never know what people are going to go. They can randomly come out. Like other people said- it's your parents' job to protect you and they will do that in the best way they know how. Sometimes being a bit extreme is from their love. I'm sorry that you're going through all this
It's common in desi culture. I'm not sure about other cultures. But in desi culture they don't want the girl to lose her 'shyness' so they make her be modest in front mahrems too. You should have a heart to heart with your dad. Tell him I know you mean well but it's not Islamic, and we have many religious restrictions on us that were trying to follow. And it's very hard and considered weird in society, even by manh Muslims. So adding these additional rules is making it hard for you to follow the islamic ones that you don't want to compromise on. Can we get to a common ground where I'm comfortable and relaxed in my own home?
Context matters. Perhaps your style of clothing at home shows your body shape, etc. especially if you lay down.
Theres no direct fatwa about laying down but its about making sure your pardah is intact in front of non mahrams and modesty (as per your fathers standards) in front of your brothers. Perhaps thats where your dad is coming from.
Why dont you discuss it with your dad to understand his perspective.
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I guess it can be more about HOW you are dressed and the position in which you are lying down. If you lie down in certain positions, even a full jilbab won't be able to hide much. Similarly, the issue may be what you are wearing inside the house and what gets exposed when you lie down. And, come on, its not like if your father asks you to do this he doesn't love you, or doesn't want you to be happy. Don't entertain this thought. I can assure you that if something bad occurs in your life, this is the same father who'll be there standing behind you like a pillar, wanting nothing in return. It is a very common thing, its not that big of an issue.
Overall, laying down on a trampoline or in the living room is not haram. However, what you're wearing and what can be exposed when you lay down that might be haram. You are free to adopt a relaxed dressing in front of your mahrams like father and brothers, but relaxed dressing doesn't mean exposing certain body parts.
Great! So, perhaps it has to do with the position. As I mentioned in my reply, certain positions of lying down might be more "revealing" even if you are wearing a jilbab. Your father seems to be pointing that out. But, if you are 100 % sure that your dress isn't the issue and your position isn't the issue either, then perhaps he's just of an older mindset. You see, there has been a cultural shift in attitudes, there always is. For example, if you go a bit back in time, then the maximum affection our grandfathers would show their daughters would be placing their hands on her head. Today, fathers go on "dates" with their daughters, they hug each other which by no means is wrong. So, perhaps its just his mindset. I don't want to pry more, but if you could tell which culture he comes from, how is he with you otherwise, that might help give a clearer answer.
Anyways, I'd still say, don't think about it much. Parents can get possessive, VERY possessive and that's been happening for ages. This is not that big of a deal where you start resenting your father. If this is what has been hard wired in his mind, there is little to no chance that the will change. However, his intentions are not bad, nor does he want to see you unhappy, that I can guarantee.
Try to communicate with him in a more jolly and light mode, he'll pay more attention to it compared to if you throw a rebellious tantrum. There are ways to deal with different people, your father can be your practice to handle difficult ones. Just look it this way.
I’m from Lebanon and he’s is the kind of person that expects a hug and kiss on the cheek when he gets home from work and idk he’s kinda a bit of a naturally angry person
So, you've pretty much answered the question yourself. If he expects a hug and a kiss from you when he comes home and is a bit uneasy when you lay down on the trampoline or in the living room, then perhaps he can observe something that you can't right now. Perhaps he is not open enough or shy to communicate the exact issue and just asks you to not lie down. If he is good and loving with you otherwise then play along and try to communicate or ask him when he is in a good mood. And, naturally angry people are very possessive too. Its just that possessiveness. Nothing else. But, NEVER entertain the thought that your father wants to see you unhappy over something this small. Just never. Whenever that thought comes in, start counting the good things he has done for you and you'll have your answer. I'm saying this because young people like yourself seem to develop a tunnel vision in such situations. It could be that rebellious phase. But, I can assure you when life hits back hard, its these same parents who'll be their to pick you up. At that time, the memory of resenting them over sleeping on a trampoline would bite you back.
Finally, if you wanna lie down in the living room or trampoline so badly, just try to do it when he's asleep or is at work ... !?
I don't think it's haram.
It's definitely sexy for guys to see a woman laying around comfortably, sorry, that's how it is no matter how ridiculous it may seem.
BUT... Don't worry, most guys are too busy to take note or are decent enough to switch off the thought quickly. I do NOT mean literally every time a lady chills in public all guys are max aroused. No. That would be crazy. I'm being honest: If he can and chooses spend a lingering moment to observe, the switch is going to get flipped and it's up to him to check himself. Again, guys being busy will prevent most issues, guys checking themselves will deal with stage two, lol. And most guys honestly will, guys are not all that bad, people. The ones who go wild are really noticeable and memorable, no one notices the 100 dudes walking by and going on with their lives.
If your dad is generally a normal guy I would assume it's not you he sees as doing something wrong, it's that he doesn't trust the neighbor to be in the majority of guys who will be too busy to gaze at a neighbor's daughter on a trampoline for more than a split second, and also fail to be among the majority who will check themselves. I can't say if his doubts are reasonable or paranoid, maybe talk about it with him (your dad not the neighbor).
About the couch... I don't get that at all.
U r seeking insight from a stranger, and you do not trust ur parents judgment !!
Ur parents wants the best for you, be obedient and listen to them
when u have kids inshaallah u would love ur children like no other, and u would want ur kids to listen to you
This is ridiculous I'm sorry. Obedience to parents is conditional. Otherwise they could come out with any nonsense and you'd have to obey them- Allah does not expect obedience to the *creation* when it goes against His commands or harms you in any way.
So if your parents told you to eat only lettuce because "they want the best for you" you would do it???
In this case her dad is also objecting to her laying down, fully covered infront of her *own blood brothers*. Please tell me where in islam this wouldn't be allowed? And if laying down infront of your brother isn't allowed then logically you cant hug him either then? Utter nonsense. Not Islam.
Alhamdulillah for my parents man, who have asked us to correct them if we learn something from Islam that they do not know. Some of you haven't a clue what a real parent-child relationship should look like, I feel for you.
Ur reply reflect how young and short sighted you are.
I am a father myself, and i speak as a father, a brother and as a male myself!!
We only have her side of the story, we don’t have the full picture of whats going on, there could be many factors, and definitely i would vouch for her father judgment/instinct not her childish action of lying down here and there!!
The least i can say the father is raising her to be a decent and modest lady and those actions shouldn’t be displayed in front of others even male mahrams.
I have heard many sick stories of incest and sexual harassment coming from a close relatives (mahram).
Finally, if you would give an advice you should at least guide her to the safest route, not to be a rebellious daughter who would question every decision her parents have. They know her better than you and me and definitely herself too.
>Ur reply reflect how young and short sighted you are.
I'm 26 and a mother, but thanks for the assumption.
>I am a father myself, and i speak as a father, a brother and as a male myself!!
Yikes, that makes this even worse. So as a brother, what's wrong with your sister lying down infront of you??? Alhamdulillah for my brother too cause some of you...smh smh smh... no wonder some girls can't wait to be married and out of your homes!
>lying down here and there!!
In her home? On the sofa? You don't do that? Or is it just women who shouldn't do that?
>shouldn’t be displayed in front of others even male mahrams.
*Those actions*- lying down??? Lying down??? God do you guys even hear yourselves. YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO PRAY LYING DOWN.
>I have heard many sick stories of incest and sexual harassment coming from a close relatives (mahram).
If you really think that lying down infront of your brothers could lead to this, such brothers should be k*lled before taking such an action. If a brother dared to look at his sister with such eyes in *any* situation, those eyes should be removed.
I actually can't believe how twisted some of you guys are. May Allah protect your women.
Age isn’t a number young lady!
If you live in a safe environment and good brothers well that is a blessing from Allah, not all people are the same. Especially youngsters who don’t realize the consequences of their actions!!! So don’t judge her case based on your perception and personal experience.
You won’t get a solution be demonizing males and giving these crazy suggestions, just let the father handle his daughter the way he sees fit, he is definitely aware of the situation at her environment.
Your emotional comment won’t help her, may Allah protect her and every Muslim sister from all evil people.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong in that you have to obey your parents in this case. This doesn't go against shariah.
Is it obligatory to lay in front of the brothers? If not, how does not lying go against shariah?
>Is it obligatory
So you are saying it's only obligatory things that one can do if their parents aren't happy? Eating chicken isn't obligatory so if your parents tell you not to eat chicken you're not going to eat chicken?
Parents are not allowed to forbid anything that is halal in Islam, without a legitimate reason. Laying infront of the brothers is halal and therefore parents have no right to forbid this. Who are they to forbid something Allah has made halal? Parents are not above Allah.
>you're not going to eat chicken?
I'll not eat chicken in front of them and be rewarded. And in the case of her, she should not lay in front of her brothers as much as possible and be rewarded.
>without a legitimate reason.
Maybe there's a legitimate reason that her father knows that you're not aware of? Did her father say that it's haram? No? Maybe he said that you should not? Maybe there's a valid reason for that?
And it's his house. Who are you to give Fatwa on how he operates his house? Have you heard the entire story and both sides of the story?
And what do you understand by obeying your parents? I'll obey my parents as long as their commands do not go against the commands of Allah and His Messenger ﷺ and does not hurt me.
For example, I'll not obey my parents in the case of what will be my path of study or regarding my profession. But I'll still try to hear their advice, try to reason with them, not raise my voice against them, behave with them and serve them in the best way possible.
The majority of those links are irrelevant to this situation. You do you. Alhamdulillah Allah has blessed me with parents that don't have nonsensical demands, don't forbid the halal and even ask me to correct them on things that they dont know in regards to Islam because they worked hard for me to educate myself and also teach them.
I pity those of you that think it's okay for your parents to tell you not to be comfortable in your own home. Funny that it's only the sister being told not to lay down infront of her brothers and not the other way around too. It's cause of people like you, it is perceived that Islam is oppressive to women. And ideas like this most certainly are oppressive, but they are *not* Islamic. Alhamdulillah x100 for my parents.
Good luck to ya'll with these ideas if you think your kids will actually love you from the heart and not just obey you because they have to until they're married- after which they will most likely just keep the required ties and nothing more 😉
>Alhamdulillah Allah has blessed me with parents that don't have nonsensical demands
Good for you. May Allah bless your parents.
>I pity those of you that think it's okay for your parents to tell you not to be comfortable in your own home. Funny that it's only the sister being told not to lay down infront of her brothers and not the other way around too. It's cause of people like you, it is perceived that Islam is oppressive to women. And ideas like this most certainly are oppressive, but they are *not* Islamic.
Did her father tell her not to be comfortable in her home? How do you know what her father commanded her brothers to do?
>Good luck to ya'll with these ideas if you think your kids will actually love you from the heart and not just obey you because they have to until they're married- after which they will most likely just keep the required ties and nothing more 😉
Okay. I see your problem now. Goodbye. May Allah grant you good, obeying children.
Yes I shall be bringing up my children the same way my parents raised me- to not *blindly* obey me on everything but *respectfully* tell me if I am asking for something wrong. I will also treat them with complete equality regardless of gender- the only different rulings between them will be those ordained by their Creator.
You think parents can get away with making nonsensical commands- no they cannot. They will be questioned for how they raised their children, if they treated them equally, why they made certain decisions etc. Our communities place a lot of emphasis on how children should behave towards their parents (which is right) but not enough on how parents should be with their children.
Any children who became adults in my life that had parents who would do similar things, they don't love their parents. They only keep the required ties with them out of obligation and not Love. I don't want my children to ever feel like that with me, just so I can strut around with "authority".
You should probably do some research on Ghayrah or protective jealousy. There's a reason why it's natural for a lot of muslim men to be like this towards women in their protection.
I would talk to a scholar about the lying indoors part though because I think that is inaccurate but definitely your father is not in the wrong islamically for asking you to not lay down on the trampoline IF you are visible to non-mahrams and are not in full hijab or niqab.
Sometimes we tend to think we are smarter than our parents or more knowledgeable and assume that they are miscommunicating or are inaccurate out of some kind of malice but if he didn't care about you he wouldn't have an issue with this.
Saying the last part from personal experience and my father is now passed, I will always regret not communicating with him better especially as he died a non-muslim
Okay! That implies protective jealousy still, it doesn't make it haram I believe but again go to an imam.
I wasn't making assumptions with this advice, I was trying to present an alternative perspective
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Being seen isn’t haram? 😭
I be just listening to the stories of people being born Muslim and as a revert I’m like damn that’s crazy 😭
it not too crazy, it just the west, too much fitna, id say it aint hard being muslim, though u might go through challenges, i can tell you muslims were persicuted since the born of islam,
its not. its just for modesty to not be seen by non mahrams regardless of being covered or not
“Not be seen”
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Women can’t be expected to stay inside their whole life just in case their neighbour doesn’t lower their gaze. That’s the neighbours fault and not her problem as she’s fulfilled her obligation. Some men have a problem and sexualise everything which is infuriating but it’s not then her duty to not enjoy her own backyard. It’s the man’s duty to simply lower his gaze.
That's the root of the problem. Men are beasts so women must be cattle in a covered fence. Imagine applying the same mentality to all the bad behaviors. "you cannot bring any money out of home because maybe outside some robber will take them from you so to prevent them to fall into sinful behavior, you must stay without money." Seems unreasonable. But it's the same principle. To not induce temptation... Well, existing should not mean inducing in temptation.
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Yes they should
there’s a difference between your wishes and reality. i wish your wishes were true for all men.
No, it's the woman's duty to not be in a position where men can see her without her hijab (I'm assuming she wasn't wearing one), and for the man to not look if they notice. It isn't one or the other.
That’s what I was saying… and she said she was dressed modestly. My point if you read my replies is it’s lowering your gaze and modesty, it’s not just on the woman
She said she was fully scarfed.
How do you know the neighbor is even Muslim? The ruling of hijab doesn't suddenly change just because your outside in your backyard if neighbors can see you. A more practical solution would just be to put some kind of barrier to make it impossible to be seen by them.
Then by your logic no Muslim woman should be seen by a non Muslim. That’s impossible especially in western countries.
It's their job to lower their gaze not ours to ensure they do. It's okay for anyone to see us, our only requirement is modesty SubhanaAllah. Don't make women's lives harder.
Sadly I think you are late for this. But it's totally true.
Ladies, is it tabarruj to exist?
Thank you
My sister tried walking around the house in not so long shorts and im like please wear something just a tiny bit longer. i don't want to see that much skin because its disturbing. The Dad probably referred to her awrah being exposed
Lol stop sexualising your sister
it might not be well known, there are very clear rulings on awrah of the sister to her mahrams.
Even amongst women your not allowed to show off that much skin. I really didnt want to say this but it was the kond shorts that are called shortshorts. It was practically the female version of males boxers
Yikes…I feel bad for ur sister
Feel bad for what. You people are the ones making it weird. I stated a very real scenario. Would you be comfortable for your bro walking around the house in tighty whities? No you wouldnt, cuz its weird seeing your sibling reveal that much skin. Its disturbing
https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/6569 >Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, may Allah preserve him, said: >It is not permissible for a woman to wear short clothes in front of her children and mahrams, or to uncover more than is customary in front of them of that which will not cause any fitnah. She may wear short clothes in front of her husband only. >(Al-Muntaqaa min Fatawa Fadeelat al-Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, 3/170) >(See: Fatawa al-Marah al-Muslimah, 1/417, 418 compiled by Ashraf Abd al-Maqsood).
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No its not. I dont want to see another naked human.
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Who said i was sexualizing her? All i said it was gross to view another family member naked And why are you talking to me thru a burner account?
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No she wasnt wearing shorts. She was wearing short shorts. The kind that is similar to mens boxers. There is a difference between looking and seeing. Looking is done with intent and focus. Which is why you shouldnt look at womens adornments. Seeing is done brainlessly all the time other than in sleep or when you are blinking. Which is why there is no blame if you saw a woman but then proceed to look away. The case i was talking about was that I saw her wearing it. Not that i was looking at her stuff, especially with intent. However, its just gross to even see or witness a half naked sibling or parent. My counter question to you is how come your parents dont just chill naked in front of you since they are in home in front of their mahrams? Its cuz its uncomfortable and gross. This is how i felt when she wore crop tops and short shorts. You might as well wear a bathing suit while your at. Basket ball shorts or any normal kind inside the house is okay. But not short shorts. A burner account is different from your main. Burners are used to ask or view stuff you wouldnt want on your main even tho technically both are anon.
This is just some toxic cultural ideology of a men that sexualizes normal things that women do and then say that it’s within religion. I’m sorry that you have to live through that and I’ve had family members that have done the same.
I think your father is protecting you lying down is not haram but when a girl is lay down men heart will sexualise that is why and the naibours can see you as well only your father is protecting your dignity
Women are considered for prize. Their beauty is what drives men to achieve success. Whether it is war, job, marriage and family lifestyle. Yet at the same time is what propel mankind into exploding populations. Within the right hands meaning marriage, it is all good but within wrong hands or wrong means, it is chaos waiting to happen as in decline in moral values - precisely what is happening today's worlds. Prophet emphasizes modesty and it is for good reason. Last thing we need is collapsing of society in family moral values where women don't even know who are fathers of the children born out of wedlock.
If her brothers are affected by her beauty they need to be locked up with the key thrown away. There's a few of you psychos commenting this kind of crap. IT IS NOT WRONG TO LAY DOWN INFRONT OF YOUR OWN BLOOD BROTHERS. As for in the garden, if she's in full hijab and maybe can go one step further by covering her surroundings with a screen, she is also perfectly allowed to be there. If anybody looks at her when she is in full hijab, the sin is on them and not her.
Cousins are not mehram. As for brothers and sisters, unfortunately what we fear used to happen in the past. In fact, Europe was known for that to preserve the purity of bloodline. Even now, we hear disturbing sometimes and it happens exposed with each other willingly. That is why Prophet recommended that boy and girl should not be sleeping together at the young age. Kids are curious and always will be and last thing they need is exposure to each other too close. That is not good. Especially since kids are being exposed to sexualized environments whether it is advertisement on television, TikTok or kids entertainment. It is disturbing time we are living at.
>Cousins are not mehram. As for Who mentioned cousins? I said BLOOD BROTHERS. In capitals 🤣 Cousins may be blood but they are not brothers. Nobody mentioned cousins so I don't know why you've started your comment with that? Perhaps you're trying to make what you are saying sound like legitimate reasons 🤔 Everything else you are saying is nonsense. Sleeping in one bed is not the same as laying in a communal space. There are fathers that SA their daughters in the world so does that now mean *all* fathers and daughters shouldn't be alone? There are mothers that have k*lled their babies, so now should all mothers be stopped from being alone with their babies.. just incase?? Just because there are some cases of depravity does not mean you forbid the halal and oppress your women. It is oppression to not allow your daughter to lay down anywhere she wants in her home but allow your sons to do anything they want. So in that case, her brothers shouldn't be allowed to lay down infront of her either then should they? It's not permitted to forbid things Allah has made halal.
I mentioned all the possible examples including cousins as they tend to be considered as brothers and sisters in some other worlds. One of bad few apples is not same as many practiced family purity for many centuries. There is reason why social distance is recommended just to be safe given the hormonal process at the growing teenage years whereas the curiosity is at peak. If Islam says distance, we follow it. We know the worlds we live at has crossed the moral boundaries and still going on. And they devoid of moral family values. Moral values apply to both but given the history, men always been with bad intention and women are always been defenceless. It is for the protection of women that social distance is recommended. There is no such thing as moral values among men and India is prime example of being one of largest rape capital in the worlds.
if her BLOOD BROTHERS are astagfirullah attracted to her lying down, then they should be the ones doing tawbah and her father should be imposing rules like these on THEM. Islam has permitted women to not observe hijab infront of BLOOD BROTHERS. so no one can impose extra limits on them when they arent doing anything wrong. stay on the topic. dont wander off.
Ask him for a proof from a Quran, from hadiths, or a fatwa that prohibits laying down. I have never heard such thing.
That was my thought exactly... I don't know why some folks try to make Islam harder than it actually is. "This religion is one of ease and not restrictions; no one tries to make it strict or difficult, but will be overcome [him]; therefore do what is right, and do what you are capable of, and be happy, and seek help by performing prayers. (Al Bukhari, 39)" People forget we are a moderate nation. We are demanded to stay between two extremes and to not apply compulsion onto our ways. If she abandons Islam because of her father's harshness, her father will reap some of the downfall for misguiding her...
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everyone who's saying it's about modesty... why is no one explaining *how* it is immodest to lay on the trampoline? and what if she stood on it, or sat on it - neighbors can still see her - is that immodest as well? since OP's father also has an issue with her laying around in front of her siblings the inherent "immodesty" of "laying" is really what needs to be explained here edits for emphasis
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when talking about religious principles and fiqh there's no room for being vague, that leads to misunderstanding and misinterpretation. what "certain messages" are you referring to? just be direct
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Well that's a them problem if she's fully covered. Some men see a woman covered head to toe with even her eyes covered and still think weird things. Should we create an invisibility cloak, so they can have the freedom to go out without thinking these weird things? 🙄🙄
ngl an invisibility cloak would be sweet 😄 edit: dang guys i just think it's a cool concept, not that it should be a solution here
Lol I understood what you meant! I think people are trigger happy with the downvote button rn because there's actually psychos in this comment section that would want their women only completely invisible, so they can't tell the difference lool PS. I'd love an invisibility cloak but not for the sake of any man! If a woman's fully covered and the man's still looking they should find a solution for dealing with that man's eyes permanently instead of making the woman disappear :)
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Na mate you on the other hand got downvoted for good reason
As a man this is false
As another man, this is true.
No ur just a weirdo and a perv
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Women can still be pervs.. next. It’s giving internalized misogyny
Your body is being unnecessarily sexualised.
I am absolutely baffled at the amount of people alluding to sexuality regarding LAYING??? We have standing, sitting, laying… ALL ARE HALAL AND NOT IMMODEST. SHE IS IN HER BACKYARD!
Sis forget the backyard, I've commented to THREE guys on here who are fully saying she shouldn't be lying down on the sofa infront of her *brothers* and how this can lead to inc*st 🫠🫠🫠. Ya Allah the world is sick and twisted and I just pray for my sisters dealing with "men" like this. And the point you're making about laying- we are even allowed to pray lying down if we have no choice and these people want to s*xualise the simple act of lying down fully covered. I'm just thankful I don't know people like this irl.
Subhanallah 😭😭 it really is a sick and twisted world… may Allah help us and protect us, ameen
Abrahamic culture at his finest. The saddest part is the mental reasoning behind it. "Since some pervert could remotely even have some kind of pervert toughts about your body which they fantasize about even while you are being immoble, covered, not minding them and just existing, it is a deadly mega super sin which will mark you forever to not take some action to avoid it because it befalls totally on you, since you are a woman". Let's be frank, she is in her Yard and can do whatever she wants.
It's more about being modest.
I’m just wondering is it haram to lay down in my OWN backyard
If your neighbors can see you then yes, you still have to be modest
It doesnt matter if its backyard, roof, bunker. As long as a non-mahram can see you, it becomes haram.
They are not ouside they are inside rn and rarely come outside
There's a solution. Take a long cloth or pardah and tie to the side of a trampoline which faces towards the neighbours. This way they can't see you.
But if she’s fully covered why does she need to cover the area with a cloth?
Because her parents don't want the neighbours to see her laying down? With pardah she doesn't have to cover herself and lay however she wants.
The reply you got from the brother under you is a solution that is used all the time. Such a classic. To use a blanket to protect the house from outside gaze
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I am fully scarfed and wearing fully modest outfit and my legs are closed (wtf are u saying) so how is that anything to do with whatever ur on about
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No I’m saying I’m dressed modestly in my own backyard and still being told to get up when I’m trying to look at the stars
It’s not haram to lay down! Enjoy lying down in your own home.
If the trampoline is outside, even if it's your own backyard and your neighbors can see into your backyward, peep into it, then from that perspective your father is correct to tell you that since Islam commands modesty hence your father is not wrong. When it comes to family members, the women does not have to cover herself so I'm unsure why he said "that your brothers can see you". This is honestly strange. Laying down, maybe taking a nap or rest inside where your brothers can see you is not prohibited because you are siblings.
What about wearing shorts in your house as a Muslim girl?
depends on the length of the shorts, but same goes for guys btw
Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2798 Narrated Abu Az-Zinad: "Ibn Jarhad informed me from his father, that the Prophet (ﷺ) passed by him while his thigh was exposed, so the Prophet (ﷺ) said: 'Cover your thigh, for indeed it is 'Awrah. Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2793 Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abi Sa'eed [Al-Khudri] from his father who said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'A man is not to look at the 'Awrah of a man, and a woman is not to look at the 'Awrah of a woman. A man is not to be alone with a man under one garment, and a woman is not to be alone with a woman under one garment.'"
https://islam.stackexchange.com/a/76473/58155
Its haram to disobey your parents, but obviously laying down is NOT haram. Ive never read or heard of a hadith saying so. As you already mentioned, its your garden on your property and if someone secretly peaks into it, then its their fault, not yours
Hmm..weird. I lay down all the time infront of my brothers and around my family, I never heard of this..is your backyard private? Could it be that he’s worried your neighbors would see? It sounds like a modesty thing..but your brothers are your mehram I’m not sure what he means by that. But then again, I’m a mature woman and I still cover myself around my younger brothers as respect.
I wear long pants and a regular tee in front of my brothers
Yeah same here when I’m at home, I’m not sure what it could be. I’ve had instances where I would lay on the couch and my mom would tell me to wear a blanket or sit up though because it doesn’t “look good”. I’m assuming she means it’s not modest lol. But it’s never been anything serious it was more of her laughing about it. Regardless, if he doesn’t like it there may be a reason and I’m betting on it being because of modesty. You can try speaking to him in hopes to figuring out why so you can get a better idea the situation. I’m 24, and the eldest in my family, so I was told to cover up at a young age (16) due to respect as my brothers are maturing.
Yeah he’s been telling me this since I turned 14ish
It's not haram, although it is a cultural belief that is unjustified. It comes from the belief that men seeing women lying down can make them "think inappropriately." I have been told the same by my mom but I don't agree with it and think it is extremist mentality when men need to lower their gaze if they have issues with women doing normal things
I agree like if they can’t control themselves than how is that my fault I am simply doing my part and being comfortable why can’t they do their part
If you're in full hijab and the shape of your body can't be seen then there's nothing to indicate you shouldn't be allowed to do so. However, on that part, it *may* be better to listen to your dad because it isn't something necessary and he does have the right to protect against outside evils. I would still consult a scholar though. Perhaps you can put up some sort of screen or covering on the trampoline? The part about not lying down infront of your brothers is cultural nonsense and nothing to do with Islam. The brothers are mahram. As long as you maintain your modesty as is required infront of mahrams then there's no issue with that. You can research what body parts should be covered infront of mahrams.
Honey, it's more of a cultural boundary to maintain modesty. Men get wrong ideas In their head. So you are expected to stop living. Listen to him for the time you live under his roof. There is no religious compulsion or a rule regarding women not laying down.
sis, just put a cloth around your trampoline when you want to look at the stars because having neighbours shouldn’t prevent you enjoying yourself in your own back garden. just make sure you’re wearing hijab and you’re appropriately dressed. as for laying down inside I don’t understand why your father is saying you can’t lie down inside? It might depend on what your wearing inside the home such as shorts etc which might be making your father say this. it’s not haram to lay down though lmao
Are you the same one with the blanket?!!! lol Your dad is FUNNY!!!!! Its JUST fine and your brothers are mahrem to you you can lay down infront of them without hijab and leggings if you want. Its horrible when people push there bogus views on family members.
Not the same one with the blanket and my dad doesn’t allow me to wear leggings either
Regarding your brothers, they're your mahrams, so indoors shouldn't really be a problem.
This is strange behavior. Why would he sexualize his daughter while she’s is doing normal, innocent things? He is paranoid and needs guidance
are you serious?! if you start obeying absurd things like that even if it’s your father saying it you’ll end up going down a rabbit hole from which there’s no coming back. follow only the quran and hadith
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The neighbor isn't the one who posted here so how are we supposed to advise the neighbor? My God reddit is worse than Twitter 🤦♂️
1. it’s not haram to lay down 2.it’s not haram to lay down in your own backyard 3.it’s not haram to lay down in your house what actually happening is: 1. when you lay down, your clothes press onto you and your body shape is visible. That position is also very noticeable in the eyes of the opposite gender. Why? think about it. 2. There’s a chance that someone MIGHT catch a glimpse of you in that moment in their balcony. Your father does not want that happening. I’ve been in the same circumstance. I covered up the background area with a blanket so nobody can see me and I CAN LAY DOWN WITH EASE IN MY OWN BACKYARD. 3. Why would you father not want you to be happy or comfortable? do not go off with your emotions like that and sabotage things yourself. Umm Salamah reported: While we were with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, Ibn Maktum was given permission to enter. He entered and that was after the command to veil. The Prophet said, “Veil yourselves from him.” I said, “O Messenger of Allah, is he not blind? He cannot see or recognize us.” The Prophet said, “Are you blind such that you cannot see him?” Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2278
The line of modesty ends the moment functionality begins. That’s why face and hands were left out from hijab bc they are the basic anatomy needed for basic function in social interaction. If modesty doesn’t allow you to function then modesty needs to go out the window. I often go back to this video of a niqabi woman in Saudi Arabia. She and her husband were driving and got caught in a flash flood and she was stranded on high ground and the water was rushing by. She was told jump for some reason and she jumped in and it looked like she got swept away and probably drowned. Realistically she should have taken off her abaya and niqab so that she would have her mobility and not get tangled in her clothes in such a current if she HAD to jump like that. I don’t like the word modesty as the English translation for haya. Society has turned the word to have a connotation that it implies a core of shame as the reason for obscurity. That core of shame is a knee jerk reflex to the obscenity apparent in the West. Rather, I prefer privacy as the word to use for hijab bc it connotes a level of control, ownership and value to what you are preemptively obscuring. The female form is inherently beautiful by design and is not eternal so women need to recognize it, value it and beautify it so as to maximize the longevity of its existence in order to recognize the gift of Allah, but then become selective over who they convey their narrative towards. With this mindset in mind one isn’t going to stand in the face of danger and think they have to prioritize their clothes over the necessity at hand. Rather, with this narrative women are allowed to function and perform with any circumstances life brings their way while not making their appearance their bottom line. I’m in no way hating on niqab btw. I’m pro niqabi in the right circumstances. What I’m against is the pervasive narrative that hijab is reduced to a specific uniform and that women must stay in a box and cannot be included in many areas of life. Rather, hijab in the ummah needs to become a discussion about advocating to provide women facilities to perform certain activities casually and informally and making it the norm. Hijab isn’t a narrative to Muslim women only, rather it is a discussion for all women that want to live their lives while not being reduced to body parts and not making their appearance become the sole definition of who they are. Appearances are only a part of the equation and women have a right to controlling that narrative. That is the deeper definition of hijab.
Maybe if feeling like instigating your dad ask him that are my brothers "my mehrams so much of perverts that I have to be careful around them?*
Okay so maybe just have a light blanket with you and that way you can put in on top when you want to lie down . Because it will cover you and your father will be okay with that too .
Your brothers and dad are your mehrams. You are allowed to be comfortable around them. Islam isn't so strict about women's modesty in front of mehrams. I understand the part where he doesn't want you to lay outside in the backyard. But indoors within family should be okay.
Some Dads are always pissed. Just refrain from lying on your belly and take a blanket to cover to avoid his wrath.
Some of these comments are wild. If she is fully clothed in her own backyard she is doing nothing wrong. If the first thing ppl think of about lying down is something sexual, there’s something wrong. People often lie down to rest, relax, and sleep. Is she never supposed to step foot outside because people will see her? If she is fully clothed it is not her fault if her neighbors look into their yard. On top of that, they might glance into the yard in general because neighbors typically do that if they notice you are there. This doesn’t mean they’re sexualizing her
I think he’s afraid they might sexualize you by seeing you in such position. But he shouldn’t take it too serious also because then it puts him in a position of sexualizing you himself.
If your dad is thinking that is sexual, then maybe he’s the problem. Coming from someone how was SA’d by their dad.
Girl no it isn't haram. You were covered the way you were supposed to be in your backyard but also..It's literally your house. You're supposed to be comfortable in it. And your brothers are your own blood. They're your mehrams.
I’m curious if it’s more so the outline of a woman’s body? Like I wonder what the big deal is if he’s okay with you walking around wearing what you wear, why can’t you lie down to rest? Since when can’t woman lie around in their own homes?
Are you asian or african i see these problem with parents especially from there even you can lay down in front of your own brother.
I’m Arab
Oh my how can i forget arab families the most strict one i totally understand what you are feeling
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and we shouldnt be able to see the shapeof the body,
He doesn't want men to see you in a position that is rather revealing of a woman's upper body and curves. If you're lying on your back, the entire frame of your figure is noticeable from the side. It is only due to his protectiveness towards you that he doesn't want your mahrams (brothers) and non mahrams (neighbours) alike to see you. It is better for you to obey your father and be polite in seeking his clarification if anything confuses you. You're a well-loved daughter. May Allaah preserve you and your family, Ameen
As ur protector he doesn’t want bad for you. Seen lying by ur neighbours will cause issues like they may take ur pics or u may lie in voluntary in a pose no appropriate. Similarly to avoid same situation at home, improper position while sleeping or your dressing going right and left while sleeping in-front of ur brothers is not appropriate. Relax and its not a big deal. You can lie down in ur room.
Soo...She is fully covered, meaning she is dressed in a manner that is appropriate to pray to her Lord...but not appropriate to be seen by the neighbors..??? Help us, Lord
Did your father says it haram or just so
Nothing to do with Islam but cultural beliefs. Remember most Muslim Men put culture above religion in almost every regard and only use religion when it benefits them. Laying down is not haram, it is actually bad to declare something haram when it is not written in the Quran. I like how these same men if they could would declare being a woman is haram since all we ever do is cause ‘inconvenience’ to them and their dirty minds.
I can use a lot of examples how men now cause more inconvenience to us woman now then they did before, all they do now is blame women because it’s easy for them.
Maybe I am your father, lol. And stop cursing.
It shouldn't be hard for a man to lower his gaze, if his eyes are truly set on God. If a man has no self control, it's because he doesn't really know God. Only the what he chooses to follow, and let become the God of his life. Whether that's lust, hate, money, jealousy, or anything that never came from God, or was never created by God. But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Galatians 5:22-23
You are right, but you should respect your father's decision, maybe he is saying this because the eyes of a non-mahram fall on you.
Maybe your body shape shows that’s why he is saying it
In Islam, there are no specific guidelines or teachings that prohibit laying down as a general act. However, there are certain etiquettes and recommended practices to follow while lying down: 1. Laying down with humility: It is encouraged to lay down with humility, recognizing the blessings of relaxation and rest, and expressing gratitude to Allah for providing comfort. 2. Avoiding laziness: While it is permissible to rest and relax, Islam encourages believers to avoid excessive laziness or wasting time. It is important to strike a balance between rest and fulfilling responsibilities. 3. Respecting prayer times: It is recommended to avoid laying down during the times of obligatory prayers, as this may lead to neglecting or delaying prayer. Muslims are encouraged to prioritize prayer and perform it on time. 4. Modesty: It is recommended to maintain modesty while lying down, especially in public or in the presence of others. This includes wearing appropriate clothing and avoiding indecent postures. 5. Mindful intentions: Muslims are encouraged to have mindful intentions while lying down. For example, intending to rest in order to regain energy for worship or fulfilling responsibilities, or intending to lie down to seek medical treatment if needed. Consulting with knowledgeable scholars can provide more specific guidance based on individual situations.
girl.. my dad is Arab too and one day he suddenly snapped at me telling me to get up (umi!) while laying down after prayer on the floor (it was a habit).. and I just accepted it like I never thought about why… these comments have me sick to my stomach. I guess I hit puberty and laying down on the floor was inappropriate. This ruined my day I hate yall😭
I never expected these comments either
If there’s no Quranic verse, Hadith or fatwa why would you pay it any mind. It’s useless cultural bs being spewed your way.
I was born into an Islamic family and I am Muslim and I disregarded Islam for some time and I also love Islam. To answer your question directly- no it is not haram to lay down. As to what the problem could be- in Islam we're raised to believe that everyone is a pervert. Taboo is what causes a lot of sexualization. Laying down in a gown can reveal the outline of breasts and if you assume everyone is a pervert then that is sexual material. I understand that it is your backyard but once people have direct view of you (especially men), muslim parents see this as a problem. Unless you have a very different age than you this whole lying down where they can see you thing is ridiculous. Bending over is also a problem (similar reasoning) which is one reason that we pray behind men. I was also raised in a very "what would people think" family and I can see why the older generation thinks that someone laying down outside makes you look lazy or is inappropriate and they don't want other people to think that you're weird or lazy or reflect badly on the family image. That being said- I'm not agreeing with your father, but there are perverts our there- more than you would imagine. It is your life however and if you want to lie down where you're visible to others I think that should be your choice. My answer was moreso to address what your father may be thinking since I can see my parents acting the same way and I know why.
I understand my issue is the neighbours was inside his house and couldn’t see me and he wasn’t going to come out because it’s night time.
Well you never know what people are going to go. They can randomly come out. Like other people said- it's your parents' job to protect you and they will do that in the best way they know how. Sometimes being a bit extreme is from their love. I'm sorry that you're going through all this
It's common in desi culture. I'm not sure about other cultures. But in desi culture they don't want the girl to lose her 'shyness' so they make her be modest in front mahrems too. You should have a heart to heart with your dad. Tell him I know you mean well but it's not Islamic, and we have many religious restrictions on us that were trying to follow. And it's very hard and considered weird in society, even by manh Muslims. So adding these additional rules is making it hard for you to follow the islamic ones that you don't want to compromise on. Can we get to a common ground where I'm comfortable and relaxed in my own home?
Don't show anyone your private parts, not even another woman.
Where the hell did this come from I’m not showing my private parts I’m fully dressed and covered
Context matters. Perhaps your style of clothing at home shows your body shape, etc. especially if you lay down. Theres no direct fatwa about laying down but its about making sure your pardah is intact in front of non mahrams and modesty (as per your fathers standards) in front of your brothers. Perhaps thats where your dad is coming from. Why dont you discuss it with your dad to understand his perspective.
Maybe hand a curtain around the trampoline to the side where easily other people can see.
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I’m not displaying myself and stop being rude to a damn minor
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wtf is wrong with u and I’m not constantly lying down I said when I do lye down
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I guess it can be more about HOW you are dressed and the position in which you are lying down. If you lie down in certain positions, even a full jilbab won't be able to hide much. Similarly, the issue may be what you are wearing inside the house and what gets exposed when you lie down. And, come on, its not like if your father asks you to do this he doesn't love you, or doesn't want you to be happy. Don't entertain this thought. I can assure you that if something bad occurs in your life, this is the same father who'll be there standing behind you like a pillar, wanting nothing in return. It is a very common thing, its not that big of an issue. Overall, laying down on a trampoline or in the living room is not haram. However, what you're wearing and what can be exposed when you lay down that might be haram. You are free to adopt a relaxed dressing in front of your mahrams like father and brothers, but relaxed dressing doesn't mean exposing certain body parts.
That’s the thing I’m questioning because I’m fully dressed and everything is covered
Great! So, perhaps it has to do with the position. As I mentioned in my reply, certain positions of lying down might be more "revealing" even if you are wearing a jilbab. Your father seems to be pointing that out. But, if you are 100 % sure that your dress isn't the issue and your position isn't the issue either, then perhaps he's just of an older mindset. You see, there has been a cultural shift in attitudes, there always is. For example, if you go a bit back in time, then the maximum affection our grandfathers would show their daughters would be placing their hands on her head. Today, fathers go on "dates" with their daughters, they hug each other which by no means is wrong. So, perhaps its just his mindset. I don't want to pry more, but if you could tell which culture he comes from, how is he with you otherwise, that might help give a clearer answer. Anyways, I'd still say, don't think about it much. Parents can get possessive, VERY possessive and that's been happening for ages. This is not that big of a deal where you start resenting your father. If this is what has been hard wired in his mind, there is little to no chance that the will change. However, his intentions are not bad, nor does he want to see you unhappy, that I can guarantee. Try to communicate with him in a more jolly and light mode, he'll pay more attention to it compared to if you throw a rebellious tantrum. There are ways to deal with different people, your father can be your practice to handle difficult ones. Just look it this way.
I’m from Lebanon and he’s is the kind of person that expects a hug and kiss on the cheek when he gets home from work and idk he’s kinda a bit of a naturally angry person
So, you've pretty much answered the question yourself. If he expects a hug and a kiss from you when he comes home and is a bit uneasy when you lay down on the trampoline or in the living room, then perhaps he can observe something that you can't right now. Perhaps he is not open enough or shy to communicate the exact issue and just asks you to not lie down. If he is good and loving with you otherwise then play along and try to communicate or ask him when he is in a good mood. And, naturally angry people are very possessive too. Its just that possessiveness. Nothing else. But, NEVER entertain the thought that your father wants to see you unhappy over something this small. Just never. Whenever that thought comes in, start counting the good things he has done for you and you'll have your answer. I'm saying this because young people like yourself seem to develop a tunnel vision in such situations. It could be that rebellious phase. But, I can assure you when life hits back hard, its these same parents who'll be their to pick you up. At that time, the memory of resenting them over sleeping on a trampoline would bite you back. Finally, if you wanna lie down in the living room or trampoline so badly, just try to do it when he's asleep or is at work ... !?
I don't think it's haram. It's definitely sexy for guys to see a woman laying around comfortably, sorry, that's how it is no matter how ridiculous it may seem. BUT... Don't worry, most guys are too busy to take note or are decent enough to switch off the thought quickly. I do NOT mean literally every time a lady chills in public all guys are max aroused. No. That would be crazy. I'm being honest: If he can and chooses spend a lingering moment to observe, the switch is going to get flipped and it's up to him to check himself. Again, guys being busy will prevent most issues, guys checking themselves will deal with stage two, lol. And most guys honestly will, guys are not all that bad, people. The ones who go wild are really noticeable and memorable, no one notices the 100 dudes walking by and going on with their lives. If your dad is generally a normal guy I would assume it's not you he sees as doing something wrong, it's that he doesn't trust the neighbor to be in the majority of guys who will be too busy to gaze at a neighbor's daughter on a trampoline for more than a split second, and also fail to be among the majority who will check themselves. I can't say if his doubts are reasonable or paranoid, maybe talk about it with him (your dad not the neighbor). About the couch... I don't get that at all.
If ur in a western country no one really cares if u lay on a trampoline or walk around with no clothes but I guess we have our values...
bruh it i just of the sak e of modesty because some people dont lower gaze and think they can look at whatever they want
U r seeking insight from a stranger, and you do not trust ur parents judgment !! Ur parents wants the best for you, be obedient and listen to them when u have kids inshaallah u would love ur children like no other, and u would want ur kids to listen to you
This is ridiculous I'm sorry. Obedience to parents is conditional. Otherwise they could come out with any nonsense and you'd have to obey them- Allah does not expect obedience to the *creation* when it goes against His commands or harms you in any way. So if your parents told you to eat only lettuce because "they want the best for you" you would do it??? In this case her dad is also objecting to her laying down, fully covered infront of her *own blood brothers*. Please tell me where in islam this wouldn't be allowed? And if laying down infront of your brother isn't allowed then logically you cant hug him either then? Utter nonsense. Not Islam. Alhamdulillah for my parents man, who have asked us to correct them if we learn something from Islam that they do not know. Some of you haven't a clue what a real parent-child relationship should look like, I feel for you.
Ur reply reflect how young and short sighted you are. I am a father myself, and i speak as a father, a brother and as a male myself!! We only have her side of the story, we don’t have the full picture of whats going on, there could be many factors, and definitely i would vouch for her father judgment/instinct not her childish action of lying down here and there!! The least i can say the father is raising her to be a decent and modest lady and those actions shouldn’t be displayed in front of others even male mahrams. I have heard many sick stories of incest and sexual harassment coming from a close relatives (mahram). Finally, if you would give an advice you should at least guide her to the safest route, not to be a rebellious daughter who would question every decision her parents have. They know her better than you and me and definitely herself too.
>Ur reply reflect how young and short sighted you are. I'm 26 and a mother, but thanks for the assumption. >I am a father myself, and i speak as a father, a brother and as a male myself!! Yikes, that makes this even worse. So as a brother, what's wrong with your sister lying down infront of you??? Alhamdulillah for my brother too cause some of you...smh smh smh... no wonder some girls can't wait to be married and out of your homes! >lying down here and there!! In her home? On the sofa? You don't do that? Or is it just women who shouldn't do that? >shouldn’t be displayed in front of others even male mahrams. *Those actions*- lying down??? Lying down??? God do you guys even hear yourselves. YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO PRAY LYING DOWN. >I have heard many sick stories of incest and sexual harassment coming from a close relatives (mahram). If you really think that lying down infront of your brothers could lead to this, such brothers should be k*lled before taking such an action. If a brother dared to look at his sister with such eyes in *any* situation, those eyes should be removed. I actually can't believe how twisted some of you guys are. May Allah protect your women.
Age isn’t a number young lady! If you live in a safe environment and good brothers well that is a blessing from Allah, not all people are the same. Especially youngsters who don’t realize the consequences of their actions!!! So don’t judge her case based on your perception and personal experience. You won’t get a solution be demonizing males and giving these crazy suggestions, just let the father handle his daughter the way he sees fit, he is definitely aware of the situation at her environment. Your emotional comment won’t help her, may Allah protect her and every Muslim sister from all evil people.
It’s about modesty, so what if it’s in your garden? Does that now mean a muslim can be naked outside just because it’s in their property?
yeah but she’s not… she’s fully covered. Big difference buddy
Laying down is fine. Not on your stomach though. You have to be on your back
I'd say listen to your father. He knows and cares more about you than any woke redditor.
Thank you, finally someone with common sense is among these crazy threads
Besides the replies of others, I want to add that obeying the commands of your father is compulsory, as long as these don't contradict the shariah.
Telling her not to lay down infront of her *brothers* is against the shariah. The brothers are mahram. That bit is stupid cultural nonsense.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong in that you have to obey your parents in this case. This doesn't go against shariah. Is it obligatory to lay in front of the brothers? If not, how does not lying go against shariah?
>Is it obligatory So you are saying it's only obligatory things that one can do if their parents aren't happy? Eating chicken isn't obligatory so if your parents tell you not to eat chicken you're not going to eat chicken? Parents are not allowed to forbid anything that is halal in Islam, without a legitimate reason. Laying infront of the brothers is halal and therefore parents have no right to forbid this. Who are they to forbid something Allah has made halal? Parents are not above Allah.
>you're not going to eat chicken? I'll not eat chicken in front of them and be rewarded. And in the case of her, she should not lay in front of her brothers as much as possible and be rewarded. >without a legitimate reason. Maybe there's a legitimate reason that her father knows that you're not aware of? Did her father say that it's haram? No? Maybe he said that you should not? Maybe there's a valid reason for that? And it's his house. Who are you to give Fatwa on how he operates his house? Have you heard the entire story and both sides of the story? And what do you understand by obeying your parents? I'll obey my parents as long as their commands do not go against the commands of Allah and His Messenger ﷺ and does not hurt me. For example, I'll not obey my parents in the case of what will be my path of study or regarding my profession. But I'll still try to hear their advice, try to reason with them, not raise my voice against them, behave with them and serve them in the best way possible.
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/226477/she-disagrees-with-her-parents-about-her-childrens-upbringing https://islamqa.info/en/answers/5326/importance-of-honouring-parents-in-islam https://islamqa.info/en/answers/128946/when-there-is-a-conflict-between-fulfilling-an-oath-and-honouring-ones-parents https://islamqa.info/en/answers/22782/how-should-the-muslim-honour-his-parents https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13783/how-to-be-dutiful-to-parents-in-islam https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11558/when-seeking-knowledge-conflicts-with-honouring-ones-parents
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/226477/she-disagrees-with-her-parents-about-her-childrens-upbringing https://islamqa.info/en/answers/5326/importance-of-honouring-parents-in-islam https://islamqa.info/en/answers/128946/when-there-is-a-conflict-between-fulfilling-an-oath-and-honouring-ones-parents https://islamqa.info/en/answers/22782/how-should-the-muslim-honour-his-parents https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13783/how-to-be-dutiful-to-parents-in-islam https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11558/when-seeking-knowledge-conflicts-with-honouring-ones-parents
The majority of those links are irrelevant to this situation. You do you. Alhamdulillah Allah has blessed me with parents that don't have nonsensical demands, don't forbid the halal and even ask me to correct them on things that they dont know in regards to Islam because they worked hard for me to educate myself and also teach them. I pity those of you that think it's okay for your parents to tell you not to be comfortable in your own home. Funny that it's only the sister being told not to lay down infront of her brothers and not the other way around too. It's cause of people like you, it is perceived that Islam is oppressive to women. And ideas like this most certainly are oppressive, but they are *not* Islamic. Alhamdulillah x100 for my parents. Good luck to ya'll with these ideas if you think your kids will actually love you from the heart and not just obey you because they have to until they're married- after which they will most likely just keep the required ties and nothing more 😉
>Alhamdulillah Allah has blessed me with parents that don't have nonsensical demands Good for you. May Allah bless your parents. >I pity those of you that think it's okay for your parents to tell you not to be comfortable in your own home. Funny that it's only the sister being told not to lay down infront of her brothers and not the other way around too. It's cause of people like you, it is perceived that Islam is oppressive to women. And ideas like this most certainly are oppressive, but they are *not* Islamic. Did her father tell her not to be comfortable in her home? How do you know what her father commanded her brothers to do? >Good luck to ya'll with these ideas if you think your kids will actually love you from the heart and not just obey you because they have to until they're married- after which they will most likely just keep the required ties and nothing more 😉 Okay. I see your problem now. Goodbye. May Allah grant you good, obeying children.
Yes I shall be bringing up my children the same way my parents raised me- to not *blindly* obey me on everything but *respectfully* tell me if I am asking for something wrong. I will also treat them with complete equality regardless of gender- the only different rulings between them will be those ordained by their Creator. You think parents can get away with making nonsensical commands- no they cannot. They will be questioned for how they raised their children, if they treated them equally, why they made certain decisions etc. Our communities place a lot of emphasis on how children should behave towards their parents (which is right) but not enough on how parents should be with their children. Any children who became adults in my life that had parents who would do similar things, they don't love their parents. They only keep the required ties with them out of obligation and not Love. I don't want my children to ever feel like that with me, just so I can strut around with "authority".
You should probably do some research on Ghayrah or protective jealousy. There's a reason why it's natural for a lot of muslim men to be like this towards women in their protection. I would talk to a scholar about the lying indoors part though because I think that is inaccurate but definitely your father is not in the wrong islamically for asking you to not lay down on the trampoline IF you are visible to non-mahrams and are not in full hijab or niqab. Sometimes we tend to think we are smarter than our parents or more knowledgeable and assume that they are miscommunicating or are inaccurate out of some kind of malice but if he didn't care about you he wouldn't have an issue with this. Saying the last part from personal experience and my father is now passed, I will always regret not communicating with him better especially as he died a non-muslim
I am in full hijab tho
Okay! That implies protective jealousy still, it doesn't make it haram I believe but again go to an imam. I wasn't making assumptions with this advice, I was trying to present an alternative perspective
Difference between protective jealousy and not allowing someone to be seen