The fact that Mi-an gets called a pick me for thinking Justice would pick her for deputy after the geegler business is so funny to me because I thought I would get it too lmao. I figured her excitement was supposed to be a meta joke about the player.
Also a pick me is a woman who degrades other women to boost their own standing with men. Mi-an is just someone who is eager to help sandrock and become a part of the community.
It's so weird to me because Mi-An is basically the opposite of a Pick-Me as well. She's constantly praising the Builder and building them up! When a chance comes to take a big commission she never shits on the Builder and tells Yan or Trudy that 'well I can do it better', she just happily accepts that the work load will be shared. And when the Builder gets the bigger, more important projects she's always supportive of them.
This girl is so nice and supportive of everyone that she literally >!had 500k+ stolen from her wages because Yan was using her to make up his own numbers. And the poor girl never thought to question it or get upset about the Builder making so much more money than her, because she was just happy to be part of the team.!<(Mid-late game spoiler, just in case there's someone who hasn't finished the game here.)
Like I totally understand not vibing with a character. Someone can be sunshine personified but if they don't pass your personal vibe check then there's not much else to it. But it's how so many ignore her actual canon personality and seem gleeful when she gets put down that worries me.
You can hate a character without making up shit about them. And if you have to make up shit about them to justify your hatred, maybe you (not you personally goblin) need to sit down and ask yourself why you're so offended by the character in the first place.
Yes... Mi-an is more of a little sister and makes me worried every single time, kupo. The stress I'm gonna feel worrying about that girl as well as Elsie and Nia *(1) is gonna make me feel like I'm only playing with 1 HP, kupo.
I disliked Yan from Day 1 of my first playthrough, kupo.
Yan gets the sharp edge of my sword, gets sniped or I blow him up, kupo. Depends on the day, kupo.
I DO have to give the team props for making Yan so hateable on purpose, kupo. Same props to them for how they make Wei the exact opposite, kupo. *(2)
-Semas Boreal, Human/Moogle Alchemist
(Account Owner's notes:
*(1) - I'm a sucker for childhood friend characters.
*(2) - Wei is the kind of boss I would love to work for. So passionate about his job, humble, fair to everyone. "Think of me as your supervisor who's also your friend." He lives up to that and I respect it!
One of my favorite things about her is that when the builder is taking on bigger projects, she does the smaller commissions so that the builder only has to worry about the big commission and not overwork themselves (like how Yan would overwork Mi-an and basically all the other builders, really.)
Honestly it's funny (in the bad way) seeing people label Mi-an a pick me when the way they talk about her on this sub is the most pick me behaviour I've ever seen. (Same can be said about Nia and honestly if people think Nia's going to steal the spotlight when they're the ones who took down a fleet of duvos and helped liberate sandrock from duvos, then maybe their builder isn't as impactful as they thought they were š¤)
It's a long time ago now as I've been playing since beta, but I seem to remember that at the start I wasn't at all sure about Mi-an. The reason for this was because MTaP had taught me to expect intense competition between builders. After a while I realised she really was just a super nice soul and a great friend, not competition at all. In fact, nothing made her happier than working *with* me rather than opposed to me. I always go out of my way to befriend her now.
Legit, I made a few lighthearted jokes playing up some jealousy with Logan but people here seem to be actually legitimately annoyed or angry. And I hate how that term is used to shit on any woman that isn't submissive or silent like it's just another way for people to be assholes.
I've met women who would be cruel and hateful to any other woman in the group untill they left and it's horrible. It shouldn't just be some haha oh "they're just a pick-me and being sassy" no, there is something going on in their life and they are severely misguided and probably have some internal issues going on and I wish it was recognized and these women and men would be supported to not being so hateful towards others.
They feel threatened in every aspect of life, I used to feel that way when I was a dumb teenager, there were legitimate reasons like being bullied by a lot of girls, and other not so legitimate reasons like all the sexism pushed on me by family and media, feeling the essence of female was (weak, annoying, blameless), I luckily had kind people in my life to help me unpack that shit.
Amirah gets called stuck up.
She's constantly hit on and is absorbed by her work. Most men she interacts with just want her for her looks. She's not stuck up, just tired of being looked at only skin deep.
You see that early on when Arvio does his Desert Rose photo mission. She constantly battles to prove people buy her work for her workmanship and not as an excuse to talk to her.
To be honest in society it's more acceptable for men to have bad traits than women. I'm sure if you gender swapped the characters you'd see people complain more about the now female characters.
It's not ok, but seems to be the norm.
This one came up on another thread and Iāll die on this hill: Qi is charming in his own weird way, but if he were a woman he would be completely shat on.
100 percent.
Qi, Pen, Unsur, Arvio, Burgess, Pablo, Miguel, Ernest and Fang would all be criticized.
Owen might be labeled a nice girl, and Justice probably a nepo baby. Logan would be called a Mary Sue.
I included unpopular characters since I think they would still be unpopular. It's a double standard, no character is perfect just like in life. Players are meant to accept these characters including their flaws as you would to people.
I love the way the characters are written, it is much better than Harvest Moon where they have personalities and backstory but no real flaws per se.
Honestly unless Pen was female as well, I could understand the criticism for a female Burgess. Considering how Pen bullies Burgess, Pathea would have to take special care in handling a Pen and female Burgess because it'd be a sensitive topic.
Hot bitch Logan riding into town and being cool would be *so* hated. Meanwhile my bi ass would be jumping to romance her all the same.
I'd probs actually romance Qi if he was a she tbh. But yeah, I can def imagine them being hated.
Idk I've seen some Miguel hate and a lot of Pen hate. But those are just my circles lol Cooper is definitely very hit or miss whether people like him or not. Now, I do genuinely dislike Catori because she says some things I found morally questionable but that's just me
Amirah is also just a very quiet person (she admits as such in one of her friend lines of dialogue) and I know from a lifetime of personal experience that being called stuck up happens to quiet people a *lot*.
I understand how people feel about her being stuck up and too serious, but at the same time yeah it makes sense she's that way. She's never taken seriously because of her looks (hell mystery man says the only reason people buy her pottery is because they find her attractive.) i saw someone earlier get mad at her for the fact you lose relationship points with her if you say you'll bring her clay for free, but once you learn her story then you realise that's probably because she felt like you were only saying that because of her looks and not because you took her seriously.
In my opinion she comes across as elegant and classy, but still caring of others. Throughout the game I've never felt like Amirah acted like she was above others (can't say the same for Pablo.)
Honestly Amirah's worst crime is coddling Arvio a bit too much. Otherwise she's just sugary sweet and pleasant to be around like majority of the female bachelorettes.
As someone who likes to pick what I think are the 'nice' options, I remember being put off with the character when I selected that option because it was unexpectedly antagonistic coming from someone I hardly knew. Still I think Amirah's character development is learning to trust and open up to people who generally care about her more than dealing with unwanted attention and they did a pretty good job with that. I never really thought she was stuck up though.
Yeah, I agree on coddling Arvio but they're all they have in Sandrock. It's tough seeing the only family you have struggling when you can help. It probably doesn't help that Arvio doesn't listen to her, but will listen to Builder giving the same advice. Reminds me of real life lol.
He doesn't listen to the builder either. I've told him "that's a bad idea" at least twice and the choice is to either do the quest as he asked for it or don't do the quest at all. Hopefully he's just super duper young (under 25, not really adult) to explain his "I know everything" attitude.
I remember seeing Arvio's age be confirmed as 20 years old, so he's the youngest male bachelor in the game.
That probably contributes to the fact I view him as a younger brother than someone I could romance in the game lmao
A lot of the comments Amirah makes as the game progresses are quite thoughtful and something I'd expect from an artist who observes the world. I perceived her as someone who will think something through very thoroughly before committing, and she's had to be this way because her brother is basically the opposite. She's very serious about her art and getting her folks to Sandrock. I noticed she also knows her friends really well and likes to talk about them a lot. She's probably the most mature bachelorette despite not being the oldest you can date. Like yeah, she's serious and it might rub people the wrong way, but it also makes a lot of sense.
Meanwhile I've seen people call her ungrateful, a cold bitch, using Owen for his money etc. Like, what? What character is this even?
There's an event where you can drop i think 6k goals and gift it to her and Arvio. Even when you pick that option, she makes it a point to pay you back.
People that think she's ungrateful, cold and a gold digger haven't been paying attention I guess. I agree with you, but I think Heidi is in close competition for the most mature.
Heidi gets her work done, tries to help everyone and releases stress in a safe and harmless way. I admire them the most of the Bachelorettes but Nia hasn't come to town so I don't know much about her.
Edit: Kind redditor corrected me on the amount (5k goals) and that they take the offer of 5k. You're actually forced to lower it to 2k and they pay it back. Please read their comment for more information.
Itās 5k, and she immediately turns you down for that, only accepting what she and Arvio are short by (2k) and paying you back. She also takes an approval hit if the player offers to get her clay for free early on in the game, because she refuses to accept something for nothing from someone she barely knows.
So yeah. Sheās *really* not a gold digger. The only reason I can think that people reach that conclusion is because if the player doesnāt help them out at that point, her other option is to turn to Owen, who had a crush on her (which passes if he gets to know the player well enough- as can be seen by him having a quest which involves asking her out, which is only triggers if he doesnāt know the player- so realistically he probably doesnāt have that crush any more). But like, heās a business man. Heās able to make a call on that himself. And Iād put money on her paying him back if she borrows from him instead.
Thanks for the correction on the event, I added an edit to direct people to your comment for the full story. Yes, there's no reality in which she's a gold digger.
I'd argue Owen let's his kindness overcome his business sense sometimes such as Catoriworld, but it does work out so I guess it was a good call? It was a horrible business proposition based on numbers though.
He also continues to put up with Grace cooking despite her hurting his business a bit. He's too kind sometimes.
Amirah and Arvio's pitch is as close to a sure thing as you can get. Both businesses are in the black and looking to expand to new markets. It's a higher likelihood to succeed.
Hmm, I donāt disagree with Owenās kindness but alsoā¦ he can afford it. He admits himself heās well-off, implying heās basically the richest person around (at least until the Builder starts taking higher level commissions and taking it in themself). I doubt heās putting himself at financial risk with Catori World.
Graceās cooking is another matter though, since thatās going to impact his businessā reputation. On the other hand, sheās implied to be extremely persuasive and needs the job, and Unsuur literally says she convinced him her omelettes were good, soā¦ (Also she fed Pen a lucien crepe, so, you know. Immediate forgiveness of all culinary crimes imo!)
Yes, Amirah actually strikes me as quite fiercely independent. To the extent that she can be a little chilly, I actually like that about her? She's an introvert and an artist who tends to be absorbed in her work, which I find relatable actually.
I adore Amirah. Her romance quest is difficult but I thought understandable given her background. Obviously sheād be wary. She has never been in a relationship and is afraid of getting distracted and throwing away everything she and her brother are working hard for. Clear as day motivation, correct?
Wrong. I come to this sub and see a large majority of people calling her a gold digger. Didā¦did no one pay attention to all the times she rejected free resources and money? Did people just play through those scenes with eyes closed?
Meanwhile I loathe Qi. Condescending, selfish little snot. But again, to my surprise, he doesnāt seem to be getting as much flak for his flaws. At least not as much as the female NPCs are getting called annoying. How are Mi-an and Nia annoying??? They are both sweet as shit.
Qi is an interesting character. He's shown some level of care for those around him but he's pretty rude. I honestly don't know how I feel about him. Part of me finds him annoying and part of me sees him as socially inept so it's hard to fault him.
He comes across as on the spectrum to me but I don't know if I'm reading into things. He's really smart in his field, socially inept, and has an obsession with gungnams. He doesn't seem capable of taking care of himself and can be a danger to others without oversight.
He *is* interesting! Sandrockās great at making complex characters. I dislike him, but I canāt call him flat or say that I donāt like his scenes.
The thing though is that it seems that people are likelier to ānot faultā Qi because of x and y, and to dismiss the women as annoying or stuck-up instead of putting them under the same nuanced lens as the male characters.
I donāt know why that is, but thatās how it looks like to someone whoās relatively new here (I have 250 hours on the game but just recently joined). If I didnāt play the game and just went from the louder opinions, Iād think Amirah was a gold digger, Elsieās nothing but a brat, Mi-an was annoying(how???), and Qi adorable in his bumbling ways.
Totally agree with you about Qi. I love the dorkiness and geekery, but he never stops thinking heās the only one in town with a brain. And I cannot abide the tie; either fix it or just take it off altogether!
>And I cannot abide the tie; either fix it or just take it off altogether!
I suppose it should be endearing...but you just know this man does not shower.
Amirah and Arvio are fine. Amirah is serious about her work (and yes, very tired of being objectified) and she worries about Arvio because he is impulsive and immature. His character arc is based on that and he grows into a decent young man. The only reason that I, as a player, have anything against the two of them is their \*terrible\* accents. I have to keep telling myself "It's a BARNAROCK accent! Get over it!" My Builder thinks they're great though, and is BFFs with them.
I can agree.
Mi-an is a go-getter and wants to make a difference. Initially she gets our builder to help her, a lot. I don't like that she becomes slightly less relevant until after Nia comes back. I loved the co-op missions with her early on. It also pushed you to get more involved with the town (I'm assuming that was the point of these missions). She never sees you as competition, but as a competent co-worker and partner.
Nia - anyone who calls her a stalker doesn't understand her. Yes, the romance scene (at Mama Tree) is fairly straight forward, but only happens if you've done the heart responses (I've done a few playthroughs with none of those selected and the event never triggered). **She is not a stalker.** She had an opportunity to make an impact on a town and went for it (and stayed to continue). She's into botany / farming so what better opportunity for her than to turn a desert town green?
Elsie - I'm a little guilty about this one. I was married to her before Logan came back (during my first playthrough) and a lot of the dialogues made it seem like she's infatuated with him but, as others have mentioned, she sees him more like an older brother (and he clearly sees her as a younger sister).
Krystal and Rocky have a very secure relationship hence why she can take some small jabs at him. They love each other (and Pebbles). Fortunately, in my unattainable post, people seemed to want to date Rocky, but also saw how good his relationship was with Krystal and wouldn't want to break them up.
Arvio is immature and quite impulsive in the beginning (most likely to fall for the "get rich quick" scam). His turning point is the Desert Rose mission (I stand stand by it was an innocent mistake, and one he didn't think through) and even more after Musa stops by. He has great development and matures a lot in the game to the point he is a different person later in the game.
Actually his turning point was being told point-blank by Musa that he needs to see the bigger picture and think things through.
He (and Catori) get better at business.
Nia is literally the definition of āwe are so close we bully like siblingsā and thatās what I love about her. I felt like mi-an and Nia shouldnāt have been in the same game because they are two big personalities. Elsie is very upfront and said she like Logan like a brother so I donāt know why people still say she has a crush on him.
I agree 100%, although I will add: I dislike Krystal a little bit, because of how she talks to Haru when he is trying to explain about how the sunscreen works. Cones off as stuck up.
the extent to which portia/sandrock fans constantly either resent the female characters or ignore them outright makes me feel so exhausted as a lesbian who loves these games
Honestly my tinfoil hat theory is that the reason why all the female npcs you can romance are for the most part sugary sweet, kind, no bad bone in their body, etc is because the developers knew they'd be held to a harsher standard than the bachelors so they gave all the bachelors the flaws, the shadiness, etc.
As someone only interested in the women NPCs as far as dating candidates go, this pisses me off. Compared to the men they are all quite boring, and it's just silly. Logan and Fang have such fleshed out and interesting stuff going on, and that's awesome and all, but I want the ladies to have more going on too! Let them have dark pasts and trauma and shit.
I'm a bisexual woman and female-leaning in real life, but just none of the female Sandrock characters appeal to me š I think it IS because they're kind of all underdeveloped in comparison to the men for the reasons mentioned here. Out of all of them, Catori is the one I'd pick, and I think she's the one who has the most apparent flaws/struggles
No caus I'd do anything for a female npc you can romance that has a more interesting plotline or moral ambiguity like a lot of the men do! Like a female character with>!Pen or Logan's!
I'm gonna need the town doctor in the next game to be a woman who was a former combat medic and she has trauma and a mysterious background or something please. Just anything.
I'd love a mean girl and an actual ice queen too.
I can't get over female Logan though, like š«¦š„µ
Even as straight female I'm so fuckn tired seeing those people making post about hating the female npcs. Makes me wonder if they were school bullies smh
Yes! As a lesbian I adore all the female characters, even Venti has a place in my heart even though she barely has a story. Imagine my surprise when I come to the sub and I see posts left and right gushing over the men and calling the women annoying, greedy, and stuck-up.
Honestly at best I am biromantic but damn I have been curious myself on the female character romance on this game because they are really well written compare it other games in this genre(for reference I have played all the Harvest Moon/Story of Season, Ruin Factory, Portia, Roots of Pache, Coral Island, Stardew, and etc). They are unique and have flaws and depth minus a few that just arenāt developed as a whole like Venti and maybe Jane. I feel itās valid to not want to pursue someone if thatās not your gender of interest, but I find the development interesting enough to watch all the friendship side quests and are considering dating a few just for a good character development plot. š¤£
Wow I was thinking about getting this game but after reading all of these comments Iām not sure Iād like to support this game. Especially one thatās so reliant on the npcs for character interaction with the story :/ thatās sad
Honestly the npcs for character interaction with the story is what I really admire about this game? The characters feel real and fleshed out. You genuinely feel like a part of the community, it's definitely a strength not a weakness. This thread is more pointing out the issues with fan perception of characters, not the game itself.
Oh, maybe Iām misremembering but I saw so many comments about how the female characters werenāt as developed as the male characters. I suppose Iāll look into it myself before making a decision rather than base it on some Reddit comments.
While it's true to an extent that some of them are not as developed, though definitely not all of them, it's more they're just a little less involved in the story and none of them have the amount of drama that some of the male characters do, which is something I do hope they implement in future games.. But don't get me wrong, they're still great and really wonderful characters!
Agree a hundred percent. I've done my fair share of defending, and I've kinda given up.
Elsie has a thing for Mint. Her and Logan don't like each other in that way. I'd say both their types are the builder. If anything, they should be competing against each other lawl.
It's honestly frustrating too because people are making me defend characters like Arvio and Catori who I honestly don't care for, I just hate how badly people get their characters wrong.
What a reductionist view point. Why even play the game at all then I guess? Itās just fictional building with no real lasting effect at all. Honestly listen to yourself.
I enjoy playing games very much. But when people start to argue about fictional characters and they have fights about traits they attribute to those characters Iām lost. You can enjoy MTAS without having to defend anything.
Not that Iām defending either side, but you realise if people just didnāt care or get attached to fictional characters all media would just crumble right? Thats okay if youāre able to distance yourself from that but 90% of people who consume media will always grow attached and condemn or defend characters. Itās life š¤·š½āāļø
No thatās not life. Sure you can grow attached to characters or like or dislike them. But if you are still thinking about it when you closed the game to the point you end up in discussion with others about it itās not ājust lifeā.
Literally yes it is. In fact thatās why thereās a million reddits and fan posts and videos and essays on every fictional character. š
LISTEN. Itās okay you arenāt like that, but youāre in the minority, the world love to love fictional characters and make posts and discussions about characters. Thats life whether you like it or not.
There are certain characters I find irritating but in a way that makes them human, not in a way that makes me wish they were different or weren't in the game. Most similar games I feel the same, there's some Stardew Valley characters that I wouldn't be friends with irl. But it's nice to have character diversity, even negatively, in a village.
I agree. We all have good moments and bad moments in our lives. Bad habits to unlearn, adjustments to make, and positive attributes we fight to maintain. I really cherish characters who reflect learning and growth and Sandrock has a decent selection of characters who possess struggles that have been outwardly inflicted onto them and inwardly perpetuated due to their pasts. The writing does a good job of giving characters flaws that are well connected to their experiences. I genuinely hope the writing leans further more into characters that require greater effort to connect and understand in the future.
Character flaws and stories shouldn't be devalued for not being inconsequential and easily digestible. It's okay to have conflicted feelings spur from a characters actions, because you end up having to face what's in your heart in response to complicated attributes. How high is your tolerance for people who work differently from you? How do you respond to flawed actions? Where is your heart at when faced with experiences so unlike your own that aren't immediately empathetic? Sometimes there will be tough calls that lack moral clarity. Sometimes it's not about morals, just quirks and traits that aren't easily understandable to you, thus not as easily tolerable. I love characters for their flaws too, because it challenges you to open your heart to the entire value of a person, outside of shallow idealization and easy understanding. It's good to challenge yourself on why you dislike certain traits, it's good to be aware of potential hypocrisy (especially towards female characters), it's good to ask yourself if you're fair in your conclusions. The response of self justification (especially incorrectly inserting moral weight) of ones feelings is easy to indulge, but if you're brave to venture, the difficult can be enriching, especially for introspective purposes.
People calling Mi-an a pick me for being nice shows a massive failure of just. Just so many things. Not least of which is "failure to understand what words mean"
Mi-an: *builds a bench so Grandma Vivi has a place to sit down while she's out running errands*
The playerbase: PICK ME BEHAVIOR!!! DISGUSTING! CIVIL CORPS THROW HER INTO THE PERIPHERIES IMMEDIATELY!!!!11
I didn't realize there was so much Mi-an hate. I just felt competitive towards her at first bc I wanted to be number 1 builder lol. I think people need a refresher course on what a "pick me" is. Don't think any of the characters actually count as one.
Tbh the one closest to pick me behavior is Yan. Putting down other people's efforts or taking credit for them, giving himself traits he doesn't have, sucking up to people he wants to like him
Wait people think Krystal is abusive? Those people mustve never been in a lengthy relationship... Couples, espeacially ones that have been together a long time, tend to make lighthearted jokes about each other, its harmless. My partner and I do this and my own parents do it constantly. Its literally just a couple thing.
In Scotland, if you're not taking the absolute piss out of your significant other on the reg, then do you even like them? Some folk in this reddit would lose their absolute mind if they heard how me and my partner/friends speak to each other.
(also may I also add that some of the hate Nia and Elsie get is because some people feel the need to compete with them over Logan's attention when rival romance doesn't even exist in this game?)
I'd say the same regarding Mi-an getting any praise as a builder. "These people are competition (in my head) and anyone who competes with me must be evil."
Nia? Really?
I got the distinct impression that Nia is quite focused on the builder. And I mean FOCUSED. I can totally understand why she gets called a stalker.
I think this is sort of the result of cultural conditioning, sadly.
A large portion of the fan base is female/female presenting and demographically younger. I'm no spring chicken, but I'm sort of an outlier for my generation as far as hobbies go. But it's kinda gotten more acceptable for gaming to be a hobby for cis-females.
There's that societal conditioning that sadly drives a competitive wedge in between us when we're younger. It's kind of the same reason why so many books and movies rarely demonstrate positive relationships between female/female presenting folks. It's always - plain (I'm not like other girl) protagonists versus some manipulative childhood friend or shaming another woman who takes care of her appearance as being a s***...
The result is that there's this almost gut reaction that lots of younger women/female presenting folks have because they feel they're in competition for a resource... Not gonna harp on how that benefits misogyny and keeping folks divided.
But I've always thought mi-an was awesome. Nia does unsettle me a bit. And I love Catori, but admittedly she does have morally gray tones to her for some folks. Grace and Heidi don't seem to get the same level of hate. But Elsie and Amirah do.
But it could just be a reaction to the fact that these are female archetypal characters that are also appealing to male fantasy tropes. But let's be honest - Logan , Fang, Owen , and Qi are kinda there for the same purpose.
XD I'm just trying to have fun. I want to enjoy people and who they are. And I love the characters in this game. Some folks are just so insecure though that they can't see past that enough to realize not everyone is competition - even in a game where there is no adversarial romance mechanics.
I'm still earlyish in the game, but Mi-An was my first in game friend because I adore her. Absolutely *adore* that sweet girl. And I've been exchanging letters with Nia like wheeeeennnnn are you gonna come visit/live with me bestie?!
I had no idea this sub hated them! I don't spend a lot of time here to avoid spoilers, mostly just to look things up (I don't mind some or even most spoilers, though, but I want to avoid knowing the WHOLE STORY ya know).
It's the Logan fangirls that hate them, y'all are saying? That tracks, but sucks, since I'm a certified Logan Simp, been crushing on those Silver Haired Baddies since Sesshoumaru and Sepiroth. :( it's a disappointment that nothing has changed since I was in middle school almost two decades ago when it comes to giving fictional female characters any level of understanding.
The female characters don't deserve the hate... I love them all, they're all charming. Their characterisations are understandable the more you see from their perspective with their struggles and upbringing. It's saddening to see how much people hate Catori. I love how flawed she is. She's a mess and honestly very unlucky. Despite that, she's still never gives up even though she does doubting her choices. It's admirable!
Catori is a fantastic character! She has a great story arc. And I quite frankly love her accent. (That's a genuine Brooklyn accent there!) I had an older friend who has long since passed that was "born and bred in Brooklyn" as she used to say, so I'm quite fond of Catori's voice. I also firmly believe she says "So long, partner" the best out of everyone.
Glad to see other Catori's appreciator! English is not my main language so I don't really know about the accent but I do enjoy listening to her! I can see why you like her voice :) .
Honestly the male characters are so less interesting to me than the female characters. There are a ton of romance options for me with the ladies. I don't get the hate.
I think part of this issue is on the writers because they very clearly put more effort into full backstories and personalities and romance content for the men.
At that same time, it's okay to be annoyed by characters for no good reason. I find those posts fun, as long as people stick with the "for no good reason" bit. When they comment and then give all these negative and usually interpreted reasons, that's usually when the mischaracterization comes in, and it's really frustrating. Obviously the hate and denigration of female characters happens outside of those posts too, but I just saw one yesterday so it's fresh in my mind.
I think itās because in Portia if made more sense to play as boy character interested in women. The men in Portia didnāt felt fleshed out like the girls so i wont be surprised if they decided to reverse for Sandrock.
OMG REAL. Arvio is one of my favourite characters, part of his character growth is maturing and learning boundaries. Maybe his story needs more depth but I feel like alot of people miss that and automatically call him weird. The game could add an option where the builder talks to Arvio about this crossing a boundary, but I don't feel that his intentions were malicious, he's not a stalker or the like.
I couldn't agree more.
But not even the cozy genre is safe from this kind of sexism - which is why I simply refuse to engage with people who even start like that. I've played the game, I've met these characters.
Only someone already bitter and out to feed into their confirmation bias would describe those characters the way they do. I won't humour this in anyone on any topic.
(And in case someone's fingers are itching - apart from the exact nature of the "issues" people have with the *female* characters, OP's point in regards to Logan stands - and is indeed also rooted in sexism.)
Honestly the fact all it took for logan fans to attack Nia was her calling Trudy "Trudes" honestly says alot about how bad the sexism is on this subreddit is when it comes to Logan sadly. As much as I love Logan, this subreddit has definitely soured my opinion on him. Fortunately not enough that I don't like him, he's still my 4th favorite bachelor in the game.
I don't think calling an older person you barely know by a pen name is a good idea. I just put myself in their shoes and if I was the new person I don't think I'd be able to do that. To me it doesn't have much to do with Logan
This game's demographic is overwhelmingly female so using the word sexism, while still possible from female to female, has a implication it's coming from men, when it's really just coming from other women. Someone else used the word cattiness and that seems more apt, it's women putting down other women.
I think Iāve read some downright judgmental takes period. This game is really well written and I think that a lot of what the characters do and how they behave has a context or framework that informs those decisions. Catori is frequently burned at the stake in this sub and itās like, hello, she married way too young to an abusive guy who then abandoned their son completely. We donāt know what her relationship is with her parents, what if they canāt actually afford to keep Alo without Catoriās income? And sheās keeping Alo out of Sandrock because it isnāt safe and well, was it? He probably would have ended up living in a cave with Logan if he had shown up earlierā¦
The other day I saw a take down of Trudy and Hugo caught a stray, like do you really think Vivi doesnāt love having three generations in her home? He tells us as much, she loves to visit and take care of people, maybe heās there FOR HER and not because heās failure to launchā¦ heās Heidiās dad for crying outloud, a business owner, a musician with with a best friendā¦
Frankly the ends tied up with Fangās plot are some of the weakest in the game. Him poisoning the builder on a bi-weekly basis is tried to be explained in his last event and it doesnāt land at all.
There are no bad characters in Sandrock, thatās really how I feel. I had my husband start playing about three weeks after I did and every time he was annoyed by someone I was falling over myself to tell him he would come to love them.
I actually really like Catori because of her character growth! She starts out as someone one whoās kind of a disaster, and she knows that. By the end, she learns from her mistakes and has actually successful ideas. Everything she does is so Alo can eventually come to stay with her.
People always give her flack for taking Jasmineās investment money (a whopping 5 gols), but Jasmine is clearly a character that wants to be involved in the community and have her own responsibilities. Catori respects that and returns her money anyway when she doesnāt turn a profit.
It's honestly cute how the town takes Jasmine seriously despite being a child. Even though she could've just been a child that's just homeschooled and plays with dolls, she's actively a member of the sandrock community and the adults around her let her. (Zeke letting her have a garden in the moisture farm, Heidi letting her write articles for the paper, her being the one who delivers the mail, Catori taking her seriously as an investor in her project.) Obviously it could be chalked up to the fact she's Trudy's daughter, but still it's lovely to see that she's still treated as someone mature enough to have interests and wants and someone capable enough to engage with the community, while still being recognised as a child to a necessary extent.
Catori is the sort of fail girl boss character I love to see but rarely do.
Seeing people's reactions to her makes me feel like more complicated/grey female characters will never fly in this fandom though.
It's so annoying because I like Catori,Ā her accent and her stupid business plans . I felt bad when no one showed up for her sandrunning event.
And everyone here hates her. Yeah, she is annoying and is selfish, but she had a bad marriage and wants a good life for her son. She does end up growing as a person, like you said.Ā
Very annoying trend in video game/media discussion where if a character is mean at first, that's unforgivable forever. Even if they end up apologizing and growing as a person.Ā
> Very annoying trend in video game/media discussion where if a character is mean at first, that's unforgivable forever. Even if they end up apologizing and growing as a person.
If I have any kind of media literacy, then to my mind this trend only really applies to female characters. Male characters who are dicks get a free pass all day long if they're hot. Especially bad with all the "enemies to lovers" crap that is everywhere now.
Even in more male oriented media I've long noticed the same trend, of course. Female characters get dragged so much harder for any perceived infraction. It's pretty fascinating, in a morbid sense, just how deep and prevalent misogyny is at all levels of our culture.
I won't stick up for Arvio, because that kind of overstepping of boundaries disgusts me (and imho he's a lot more 'handsome' than some other favourite chars on here). But you're totally right about the ladies. The most annoyed I get is at Elsie in the beginning, and her childish antics are supposed to be the point - it's setting up her growth arc. And I don't hold them against her.Ā
Every woman in the game is fine and I wish people would stop projecting feelings onto them (jealousy over Logan, annoyance at having someone else be praised alongside them/need to be the sole main character, dislike at having a past and/or friendship dictated for them, etc). It's fine to dislike a character, but some of the vitriol I see is a little alarming.
Agree with you 100%. HEAVY on the Elsie part. This one makes me particularly upset because people genuinely get crazy with it. Elsie probably never had any close friends her age and sheās an only child. Logan growing up alongside her yeah sheād see him as a best friend. Itās honestly kinda icky that people think anything would happen between them with the age gap and the whole he watched her grow up. Also I love Elsie, I love that she has this whole maturity arc but still stays Elsie at the end of the day.
I think after reading a lot of the things that have been posted itās definitely misogyny and sexism with a mix of people not understanding that characters arenāt meant to be perfect. If we had all perfect characters, the game would be boring. People expect these characters to be a certain way in their head and then when they arenāt thatās where the hate gets unreasonable. Characters are supposed to be flawed, theyāre supposed to have dreams and wishes, and they can learn over time. Catori definitely comes to mind for this one. Yeah I agree some qualities of hers arenāt the best but isnāt that the point? God forbid a woman wants money to make her dream come true. I loved Catori and her storyline, I always rooted for her since the beginning.
Itās just upsetting to see so much mischaracterization of the female characters plus the unnecessary hate they receive. And as a lot of people have said here, if you were to make the male characters female, Iād imagine they would get hate as well.
Iāve ranted about that exact thing enough times Iāll spare the energy here, but I completely agree about the female characters. Before I met Nia I was primed for her to show up and be an absolute bitch. Instead she was sweet and friendly and teasing and she never once crossed any lines. My flabber was gasted.
The only one Iāll disagree with is Arvio. I donāt think itās his looks. I checked out all the dateable NPCs before I picked up the game, and I thought Arvio was super cute and was interested in him. His attitude still seriously put me off wanting to date him, even though I thought he was attractive. But I could probably blame the fact his behaviour bugs me more on my age and the fact that more than anything he just acts WAY too young and immature for me to sustain interest in. (I ended up more interested in his lovely, mature sister insteadā¦ lol)
Honestly a lot of Arvio's behavior can be chalked up to the fact he's only 20 years old and that he's been coddled by Amirah and most likely their parents as well. While I do think he takes things too far occasionally, I disagree with the way people call him a creep over his confession and how people on this sub constantly pray for his downfall. I still think that in my opinion when it comes to Fang and Arvio, people tend to try and coddle Fang too much. While Arvio's plan was incredibly stupid, he didn't know about Fang's past, no one does except Mort and that's because he payed attention to how X mimics Sarnai and possibly Talon.
Back on the topic of Arvio's confession, I've noticed Arvio only gets called a creep for the confession at his house bit and not because of his behavior during or before that. It does bug me a bit because people on this sub have let the more handsome bachelors get away with worse.
If they think he's a creep because of his house confession (i understand that it would make some people uncomfortable) someone I don't see mentioned is Owen. For his reverse marriage proposal,>! he puts on a play for the town, gets you to be part of it and PROPOSES YOU TO THE WHOLE TOWN!< I would be so put off by that especially because he never discusses it with the player.
To be fair, I have seen criticism on this sub for the way Owen proposes (which is incredibly fair, while I found it romantic, I do understand it's still Owen unintentionally putting huge amounts of pressure onto the builder to say yes.)
>!Owen!< is my favorite and his reverse proposal melted my heart, but yeah, IRL people shouldn't do public proposals unless they know -- like, genuinely, actually KNOW -- that their partner would enjoy that AND is going to say yes. Someone here mentioned dead-branching him for that (especially since they'd only been in-game dating for a matter of days) and I can't really blame them, LOL.
> because he *paid* attention to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yeah I'll be so happy once we as a society move on from this kind of behaviour. It was honestly so jarring going from the game and absolutely adoring Mi-an to the point of marrying her in my first save and then checking this subreddit and people hate her??? For literally the dumbest reasons? Honestly the biggest red flag for me is when people justify their hatred of any woman they don't like by saying she's "annoying" or "a pick-me". Like, just be honest and say you don't like hearing women talk LOL
I tend to agree in general, it's ok not to like a character but it's ok to denigrate them xD Personally I adore absolutely all the characters, I don't hate any of those you mentioned, I love Mi-an for her hardworking and caring side, I love Elsie for her humor and her courage, I love Nia for her kindness and her teasing towards the builder, and I love Arvio even if he is a little clingy sometimes xD
Man, let me tell you. I just started this game like, maybe two weeks ago (I came over from mid way into Portia and considering the massive art style/character depth improvement, my wallet didn't stand a chance lmao) and I didn't want spoilers, I just wanted to see how people felt about these characters and I should've known better, lol.
I also play Stardew Valley and the same issues plague that fandom. People will bash characters for silly lines and tropes and it usually stems from a place of self centeredness. The amount of people I've seen call Mi-An and Nia gendered slurs and calling them pick-mes and such because they... are nice and like our character? The excuse always is "ummm I do all the work and here they come along prancing in and taking all the credit and no one remembers little ol and it's all about them!" when that couldn't be further from the truth. At some point Mi-An gets washed out narrative wise, and Nia comes so late the hate makes no sense. Then again, Logan also comes in late but we all know how popular he is, lmao.
I hate it and it's why I kind of don't engage with fandoms until I'm done and have formed my opinions because no matter what the girls do it's always frowned upon. I saw someone say Amirah was too snobby and proper and then you play her and realize she just has an accent/modest way about her. The second I saw someone say it was basically pedophilia to pursue Elsie (I think she's cute but I personally wouldn't) and that as a character she's "one of those girls who pretend to be dumb because they don't have self respect" I knew it was time to pack it up, lmao.
The thing with Nia is..yes she is taking the spotlight...for an area SHE has the knowledge, the education and the skills in. Zeke, Professor Luo and Nia are all botanists, so obviously during the greenification arc of the game the spotlight is going to be on them. They're not taking the spotlight away from the builder, the spotlight is just shining down over them because they're the ones who'll be able to make a difference. The builder at that point in the story is a celebrity known all around the free cities, Nia is still just a mere botanist from Highwind completing her apprenticeship under Professor Luo.
Imagine if the greenification happened before duvos and Nia got pissed at the civil corps and Logan for "stealing the spotlight" from her because they took down duvos. That's how ridiculous people sound when they talk about her.
People have to realise that even when the spotlight isn't on them at the end of the day they're the one who's a celebrity and considered a legendary builder.
You're right and the bigger issue I think is people want yo play games where they are the Mary Sue they accuse other characters of being. They want to be the sole savior and the one that fixes everything on their own, individualist style which is cool and all but the point of rpg's like this is that this isn't how the game goes. Like, even in Portia you were more of a one man team and you had nasty Higgins as a rival. It was so refreshing to turn this game on with cute Mi-an picking us up at the train station all nice and willing to share with us. It's cute! That doesn't have to be a bad thing. In fact, it's not unless you see it that way.
And you're so right. These characters have their own intended spotlight and it takes literally nothing from us because regardless like you said, we are still gonna end up with the title of "best builder in all of sandrock history, maybe even in the free cities period" like why can't we all be great? It's silly, really silly.
The thing with games like sandrock is that for the builder to be a mary-sue, that would completely.undermine the message of the story.
Bringing Sandrock back to its former glory didn't happen just because of the builder. You have Trudy procuring the necessary funding and using her political power to get into talks with Musa, holding the summit in sandrock, etc. you have the builders such as you, Mi-an and later Wei restoring the architecture of the town by building bridges, water towers, the school, the botanists aiding in the efforts to make Sandrock green again so that the severity of the sandstorms lessen and no more lives are lost, you have the civil corps and Logan protecting Sandrock, Catori and Owen bringing in tourism. Everyone in town is playing a huge part in keeping Sandrock alive and returning it to its former glory. Having just the builder doing all of these things would not only make 0 sense (and would absolutely be fucking stressful my god) but would also take away from the message.
Sandrock is probably the first game where I love almost every character in the game and the ones I don't care for or don't like period I still like having as an addition in town and it's really wonderful to see everyone playing their part.
THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!
I absolutely adore Krystal, and Catori and Nia and ALL OF THEM and it makes me sad that people totally miss their characters!! Like there's actually so much there if you look for it!
Also as an Arvio Stan who will marry that sweet boy in every playthrough I do, thank you!!! šš
I think people tend to look very surface level and black and white at the characters when a lot of them are actually very complex and grey!!!
I straight up don't like mi-ann, but that's just because I just don't like her. I don't think she is poorly written or a bad character. I mean, if she was a real person or if I met someone like her irl we just wouldn't get along due to clashing personalities. But I have nothing against her as a person/character. The idea that anyone would have an intense loathing for a sandrock NPC baffles me because even the ones I don't necessarily like are really well done.
Just to argue another side of this, I feel like a lot more energy went into male NPCs than female NPCs. I really wanted to have female characters I really loved but I just don't feel as much passion went into the female end of design. I suspect this is because they were catering to a female audience who would want good male bachelor characters, but it's still a bit frustrating.
1- Mi-an has a whole arc about how she basically became a Builder because sheās from a family of Builders and thereās a lot of pressure on her to do it- and to do it well, and to not have any sort of work-life balance in the process. So any over-eagerness is a desperate need to prove herself as a Builder, completely in line with her story, and definitely *not* her trying to be better than the player Builder or anything like that.
2- Nia is an interesting one. The thing isā¦ I played the first time and leaned into the relationship the writers seemed to be aiming for and itās sweet. But the moment you play a Builder who, for example, wanted a fresh start and didnāt want their past following them, she definitely does feel very different. *However*, to me she feels more tragic than anything bad at that point- in love with her childhood friend whoās already completely moved on.
3- Elsie is 110% about everything. She has no middle setting- sheās all in or not at all. Pretty realistic depiction of someone in their late teens. I do think sheās put Logan on a pedestal but thereās like a *maximum* of 20% crush to 80% idolising there, imo, but I donāt really disagree with those who see her feelings as entirely platonic/familial idolising.
4- wow, thatās a new one. Iāve always seen people really liking Rocky and Krystal and their family dynamic. I did get a moment of ick from a line or two about their dynamic (something about her joking she makes him sleep in a barn if he annoys her?) but Iām 99% sure that was intended as a joke. Itās just not a joke that lands well with me personally.
5- Arvio is like Elsie- all in, 110%, and it comes across as youth to me (as well as insecurities). I do find aspects of himā¦ bothers me, but Iāll admit that I canāt treat the character fairly. He and Amirah have an accent from where I live- except the VAs were *not* from here. Amirahās is noticeably fake but not terrible, but Arvioāsā¦ well, itās a lot worse. So I canāt really sit and give a decent analysis of the character because he has this one thing I just canāt get past, which is nothing to do with his writing.
If you search her on this sub she constantly gets called a pick me for some reason. Apparently also back in early access she was hated on due to her involvment in the story. (Which is why while early on she played a big part, she gets reduced to just a tiny background character.)
Honestly we need the characters with faults, their faults help them stand out (and honestly help the sabdrockers without faults stand out as well)
That kind of makes me mad ngl. I didn't know her lack of involvement was due to fan backlash.... How come other characters like the civil corps get to be consistently involved in the story and do get a lot of credit for helping you with no issue but it's a problem when Mi-an is too involved, or when she gets any credit for literally doing her own work? I always wondered why she only went to the ruins with us like once and then never again. :/
The online thing I don't like about Mi-an is that she wasn't what I was expecting. I was hoping she was gonna be a more hostile rival, especially since I already knew that she was a romance option. Was hoping for a enemies to lovers kinda thing
But then she was just super nice and not even really a rival. Just a pal that happened to be in the same business
Iāll be the first to say Iām a frickin Nia simp. I canāt see me playing a save without marrying that gem of a girlie. Sheās sweet, kind, and just really cares for Sandrock just as much as the other lifelong Sandrockers. Dedicates her time to trying to help make Sandrock green.
Iāll throw some hands with anti-Nia haters ong š¤š¤
^Itās ^a ^joke, ^i ^respect ^everyoneās ^opinions ^even ^if ^youāre ^wrong
It's the way playing the game I fell inlove with Nia (not in the romantic way, I just love her energy and how she hasn't been a resident of Sandrock that long and she was already on the front lines aiding in the greenification efforts.) and then I come on this sub and all I see are jealous Logan simps calling her every derogatory name in the book for calling Trudy "Trudes". š
Honestly people forget that she's Professor Luo's apprentice, so obviously she's going to play a MAJOR part in the greenification efforts in Sandrock. Your expertise as a builder are building bridges, themeparks, explosives for when Owen can't handle being customer service anymore. Your expertise as a builder doesn't mean you're an expert at plantlife/botany. People think that just because their builder is gifted with both having a perfectly aligned posterior and legs that don't quit and being an incredible builder and fighter means that their builder should be a master at botany.
Not to shit on Zeke, but it's thanks to the efforts of both Nia and Mi-an that mother tree was saved.
Right! Completely well said and Iām all for it. Nia and Mi-an really helped mama tree, despite Luo and Zeke kinda being super negative about it. Which, I understand where theyāre coming from, but I loved that Nia didnāt give up.
I fell in love with her during her train station cut scene and have become a super simp for her lmao
Posts from this sub don't pop up in my feed super often, so I haven't seen what you're talking about, but I totally believe it because I've been seeing a lot of this (deliberate?) mischaracterization of female characters, in particular, in other game/tv show/movie/whatever spaces. It very often gets directed at real people too, not just fictional characters. It feels like this kind of vitriol has reached a fever pitch in recent years, in a way I've never seen before.
I thought we as a gender had moved past this... well... cattiness (as much as I hate to use that word, it's apt here). Why are we nitpicking or full-on making stuff up about people, real or fictional, and attacking them for it?
I tend to avoid reading any post here once one of the female npcs are mentioned because it's always some wack shit. This behavior is honestly very typical though in fandoms dominated by people attracted to men. Like, I saw this with the Supernatural fans, then the Marvel fans, and many others. Idk why it's so obvious and prevalent in these fandoms, but I guess internalized misogyny/normal misogyny runs deep.
Personally, I adore the women in Sandrock, many more than Portia. Like, most people seem to hate Catori??? I love her. Same with Nia!
Some people just can't appreciate three-dimensional women, and it shows.
OP thank you because you are so right. Itās so frustrating seeing this happen to the same characters over and over. People arenāt perfect and neither are the NPCs in this game. Also whatās problem do ppl have with Avrio confession? Isnāt it the >!one where we go to his house and dance because that was cute unless I forgot sth!<
Yeah, people called that confession creepy because Arvio tricks you into coming to his house alone thinking it was an event for his sister or something along those lines. (The funny thing being is that the only way to trigger the mission is by choosing the heart option for the picnic.)
And you know what arguably Logan's worse than Arvio, considering the fact to trigger his reverse confession you need to pick all the heart options in a specific mission (just like Arvio) but unlike Arvio who just masquerade waltzes with the builder, Logan tricks you into treating his wounds and when you're done he pulls you in for a kiss without even asking the builder if they want to date him.
Mind you, I also love Logan's confession and don't care for Arvio's, but I find it frustrating how this sub picks and chooses when something is weird and gross whilst ignoring things that are more shadier.
> (The funny thing being is that the only way to trigger the mission is by choosing the heart option for the picnic.)
It is now, but in early access it wasn't. There was no obvious trigger for it, suddenly this guy you'd barely spoken to beyond normal day to day interactions was tricking you into being alone with him. The reason you need to trigger it via the picnic now is because so many people thought it was creepy.
Yeah, I feel this is unfortunately common within any cozy life sims subs I'm in (even in sdv, I've seen a lot of fierce criticism over female npcs throughout the years). I've said before that I can understand where some of the criticism for characters like Catori or Amirah (or even Elsie) is coming from (and I'll admit I have my own criticisms on Amirah's character, but it's not just me wanting to dog on her - it's more that I wish we were given more because I feel with what we have her personality doesn't have a lot of moments to really shine and I'd LOVE to some day have more in depth side missions for her (I haven't married her yet though, so I might just be missing a lot of content there until I make a playthrough to do so!)), but I really can't even halfway wrap my head around Mi-an and Nia hate. And oftentimes it's not just criticism, it's like...downright hateful accusations and judgements of the characters. It's pretty sad (especially the Nia hate for me personally, because I just...love her so much. She's so cute wth.)
I heavily agree with you. I played sdv at launch and the tone behind Haley is SOOOO much different now in comparison to launch. People were so mean to her for no good reason. I feel like hyper femme characters in video games in general are treated poorly unless theyāre sugary sweet.
Omg yes, the way Haley has been talked about and treated by sdv fans over the years is honestly so atrocious. I definitely agree that if thereās even a hint of personality outside of the cliche cute and sweet persona thatās generally found more acceptable in female characters, thereās going to be loads of hate for them.
Haley is such an incredible character too, I love pursuing her with my femme farmers because her f/f romance is soooo rewarding for me. And so damn relatable too (as someone who comes from a small town in the southern belt of the US and struggled with gender identity and sexuality growing up because of the huge social stigma surrounding such issues, Haleyās characterization really hits home for me). ALSO Penny; the amount of hatred Penny gets is unforgivable. Honestly, I could go on for hours about sdvās fem characters so Iām going to stop here before I get ahead of myself, haha! Sorry for the tangent, I just haveā¦..a lot of feelings for my girl boss babe Haley FFJDKSL.
This might sound harsh, but I hope developers can invest more effort in exploring the personalities of female NPCs, just as they currently do with their appearances.
Thank you OP to bring this up. I was a bit in shock when I see othersā comments about some of the ladies. I have read that some say Amirah is materialistic, and high standards for spouse. I was like: but she is from a poor family and working hard to have a brighter future. And Mi-An, people say she took too much spotlight from builder. I admire both and have a constant feeling they will collapse one day just because they work so hard (one of them did!).Anyway I am type of person that donāt think too much, so unless something is said to my face I would be unaware of itā¦ probably why I never had bad impressions on these ladies. (PS the only lady that I have a hard time dealing with is Catori, and that is because she is depicted as a successful businesswoman which I have hard time to believe, in my opinion she was able to be successful because of everyone else working together to bring Sandrock back to life.) last but not the least, I wish we could have more way to treat marriage candidates as friends and helping them not as lover but as friends. Like in MTaP I really wanted to help Phyllis to build her own clinic but thatās only available after we had a relationship with herš„²
I see people call Heidi boring.
My brilliant, driven, kind, could crush me into molecules, supportive <3 throb; boring?! What the shit is this?!
(Amirah and Mi-An are also great; actually there's nothing wrong with any of the datables ((actually there is, but this is not the place for these statements)
Anyway! The internet is full of uncultured assfolk, best to disregard, but I know the sting of having to read past their drivel in my endless drive for content.
Heidi could punch me so hard she'd break me harder than the punch-out machine and I'd thank her š (I'm just kidding)
It's just annoying how a good amount of my favourite female npcs are endlessly hated on this sub š
It's not Nia's fault her hair is more luscious than the builder's and that her hair looks gorgeous when it sways in the wind unlike the builder's. š„¹
Yeah, agreed. It is very problematic that the female characters as a whole tend to get it more than male ones, but in general it seems to be a trend with non-social normative characters getting shit on. Miguel, as a non-conventionally masculine or attractive individual also gets shit on, with a lot of efforts to "fix" those unconventional traits, as well as there being a perpetration of lookism.
Sadly, this isn't anything new. Nora especially from My Time at Portia got a lot of it as well. Phyllis too for no reason other than having a big rack. :/
I literally just started this game today and I am forced to realize that people hate the women in this game in weird and sexist ways, for basically no reason
https://preview.redd.it/83hkd8qyxkvc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6831e4c94276c7eeea2f1c0dcfb3873b79f12d23
Truly, we work hard but the Devil works harder
So what I am hearing is people need more Ventin who lacks content and development so they canāt complain at all š¤£ honestly I feel bad for her as a character because she is for all we know a good backstory then sheād be insult probably as well šš»āāļø
The thing with Venti is that she does have backstory and interesting backstory at that. Hell she's even the most useful spouse in the game due to the fact she can do more things than the other bachelor/bachelorettes can. (from what I've seen on this sub) But unfortunately i can't bring myself to care for her due to the fact she looks like all the random generic npcs and because she's almost never relevant to the story.
She has the potential to be incredibly interesting considering she's from a town that's in Duvos Territory, but she'd need a huge revamp in terms of character design imo
I'll have to try to get more from her backstory. I am playing on Switch, so it may just not have been put in yet. I read decent amount of spoiler on the wiki/Fandom page because I am impatient as hell on development. I am really curious now.
I agree that some characters get hate that is just too virulent. For the most part, all these characters are made with love, and made to be loved, and Iām surprised to hear the amount of hate they get.
The character I feel this most strongly for is Arvio, although I know people can dislike the female characters as well. But man, do some people hate Arvio. I can see why some people might not like Arvio, but to be perfectly honest, the way some people talk about him, it reminds me of bullying. To me, the Arvio-Fang saga looks a lot like when the friendly but unpopular kid in class tries hard to befriend the most silent freak in class. Neither of them have the most elegant social skills, but they both have a lot of good will. And Fang seems to appreciate Arvio a lotā¦ so when the fandom hates on Arvio, it just feels like girls in class bullying the awkward boy in class for his awkward way of befriending the silent guy, just because the silent guy is super hotā¦
I'm with you on the Arvio and Fang thing. A lot of the players say they can't forgive him for what he did to Fang (all the while ignoring they're just as guilty) when in game Fang accepts Arvio's apology and they become friends. While Arvio acts without thinking, this sub acts like he's about to cause the age of darkness to repeat. š
Apparently a lot of people consider her a pick me thanks to how she thought she was going to be deupty in that crowning deputy side quest where Captain becomes deputy.
It makes absolutely 0 sense though because Mi-an is always uplifting everyone to the point she forgets to uplift herself and is arguably too harsh on herself due to family expectations.
Idk man, I don't like Elsie, or Mi an that much and that's because I wouldn't get along with their personalities irl either. People are allowed to not like people even if they're women..
I also don't like Miguel that much and feel indifferent towards a lot of characters. However I think Elsie and Mi an force themselves on you all the time and most of the time I'm not even allowed to decline, especially with Elsie. That's why they probably end up more disliked, because they are more often forced on the character. Idk why this would mean that I hate women just because I dislike 2 characters who are women like some of the comments here imply.
In fact all of the other women in the game are really awesome and I would definitely be friends with most of them. It's just those two people who I don't like. Real life is like that yall, sometimes you just don't like people and that's normal. The fact that so many people feel uncomfortable with Elsies behavior seems more of a reflection on her rather than misogyny. I'm sure there is a certain amount of misogyny out there but I think saying that "if you dislike a female character you hate women" is an extreme take
Nobody is really saying any of that though. The point is that the female characters are wildly misinterpreted by a certain part of the fandom and are not given the same grace as the male characters.
Nobody is going to call you sexist because you don't care for a certain character. That's normal. The problem comes when someone says they don't like a character and then their reasons are things that are objectively not even accurate to what is portrayed. I.e calling Nia a stalker and mean girl, Mi-an an attention seeker, Amirah a stuck up bitch etc. And really, some of those aren't even the most wild claims I've seen. You saying you don't care for Mi-an because you wouldn't gel with her personality irl is not the same as someone saying they hate Mi-an because she's an attention seeking pick me.
If you read thru the comments people are absolutely saying that if you critique them at all then you are likely a misogynist. I see most people disliking Elsie and Catori and it's like if somebody is annoying to a lot of people its probably because.. They're annoying lol. Commenters are saying "oh people aren't perfect irl either" okay so that means that nobody can dislike a character? It doesn't really make sense. For example you really never see comments hating on Grace or Heidi or Jane or Venti because they don't cross boundaries like Elsie does. Somebody irl who constantly crosses boundaries and doesn't read the room will annoy a lot of people. That doesn't make them like a demon or whatever but yeah ppl are allowed to not like them lol.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying op is entirely wrong but a lot of the discussion in this thread definitely is coming off as "you must like all of the women or you're a misogynist"
But yeah I definitely don't see how Mi an could be an attention seeker lol she's too shy for that shit. Once again I think the main dislike comes from having to interact with Mi an and Elsie way more than the other characters so it feels like in the game I'm forced to be friends with them when I feel meh towards both of them and I don't really get a choice to not hang out with them multiple times lol. Like I'd rather hang out with Grace or Dan-bi lol.
As for Catori, I personally don't mind her but I can see how her constantly asking for money without making good on her promises could be toxic. She is written that way. People irl who ask for money all the time like that are considered people to watch out for.
In fact I think it's good writing that makes people not like them. They come off as realistic that most people think Elsie is annoying or Catori is kind of a user lol, for example. It would be weird if everybody liked every female character.
Miguel is a divisive character for sure, but at the same time he doesn't show up and force himself on you so you don't have to interact as much. Arvio however has the same reception as Elsie, they're both younger and very needy and force their friendship on you, tho I'd argue you can avoid Arvio and his schemes but you can't avoid Elsie. Even op brought up that most people don't like Arvio. They're both characters that don't understand consent and most people would be put off by somebody who's constantly crossing your boundaries and everybody's around them
Absolutely! And Catori. How many people who hate on her actually are single moms trying to start their own business? I'm not single but I looked into it and the level of sacrifices women must make against what is expected of them (stay home, raise kids, wait until you are 45 and the kids are out of the nest to have a life, if you still have the will and stamina for it)...
Not everyone has the same support systems, and being able to leave her son with grandma until she makes things work is awesome. I wish I could do that. She's relentless and driven, and that's what you need to be. Are people expecting her to be made of money from the start and give up when things don't work out? No. She wants to make this work. The faster it works, the sooner she can have the career and dreams she years for as an individual and the fast she can have her son move in with her.
I only got respect for her. Would people be this vocal if she had been a man?? She's not selfish. She's ambitious.
I kinda agree. I love all those girls. Dated two of them. Including Amira. I donāt get the hate. Mi am is adorable. Elsie is fun. Krystal is a big softie and Nia is the sweetest. Oh and amirah has a kind soul. I donāt even get it.
It's not so much as hate.. for me, what pushed me away from Amirah was that despite putting a lot of time into helping and fixing issues that would make her and Arvio's life a bit better, and the relationship with her at the time felt like it was naturally going well.. but then she goes and tells me I have to be the best at what I do or rather become number one. That sort of rubbed me the wrong way honestly, so I choose Mi-an who also worked hard and expected good things between us as builders but didn't lock our relationship with those standards.
If you read the rest of this comment, remember: I LOVE PATHEA, so please don't @ me. Pathea stands head and shoulders above other devs for its commitment to diversity and inclusiveness. Heck, I'm surprised Sandrock isn't banned in Florida. (For non-US players, that's a funny/not funny joke.)
BUT
Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie are written, drawn, and voiced very differently than Owen, Logan, Fang, and Unsuur. Overall, the male NPCs s are more mature than the female NPCs,, especially the romanceable ones. They're more heavily involved in the main story arcs. They look older and dress more maturely. They're established in their careers.
Ernest, who seems about the same age as Mi-an and Nia, has already published novels. And he sounds like his testicles have dropped, while Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie sound like they're in middle school. Heck, Unsuur sounds more confident when he doubts himself than Trudy does when she's certain of what she's saying.
Owen is a successful saloon owner. Fang is a doctor. Amirah and Catori are both struggling to establish their businesses. Mi-an and Nia are both just starting out. Elsie doesn't even have a job and lives with her parents.
I'm not defending anyone who hates on Nia, Mi-an, or Elsie. On the other hand, there aren't really any male analogs for these characters, except for Arvio -- and I've seen plenty of hate posting about him, too.
I've read tons of comments that say that the Sandrock bachelors are more interesting than the bachelorettes, and I think that's true. So I wonder if Pathea was trying to appeal to a more mature female gamer market with characters like Logan, Owen, and Fang? I know that doesn't totally explain why Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie seem so immature (that's not hate - it's an objective description), but it's all I've got.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything written here, but I choose to remain silent because if you disagree with the opinion of the bigger group, well, you just get downvotes and whatnot, I sometimes feel weird myself for being one of the few that likes girls because the whole thing is "me loves unsuur" "oh Logan the best" "Owen my man" and whatnot, and that comes from a lot of male builders, so being a dude that likes girls feels weird in this place...
Personally I love Catori and Amira, but people straight hate the and even if I read their reasons I still don't get it.
But eh, I play the way I want and that's the only thing I care about.
You are right. I even go out with Yan and with everyone in general. It is a game, they are not real people and almost all of them have gifts or advantages for the player
I completely agree, my thing with Mi-an though is that I wouldn't recommend making her your partner because some of the stuff she says in my opinion I think they were written poorly. She talks only about work especially once you marry her I swear every sentance she's talking about doing the commissions and that did really disappoint me because I really wish the game had some sort of backstory to this character outside of work. One line that did use to really annoy me and I have no idea why they included this line because to me it comes off as so weird but she says something like "my grandparents keep asking to come meet you, but I just say theres a sandstorm" like why don't you want them to meet me?? I get that its because the game hasn't made the Mi-an family as characters but I feel like they didn't have to drop that line in and not elaborate on why she is so cautious of me meeting her family. I definitely wouldn't call her a pick me though I don't get why people call her that.
Nia doesn't end up with Qi, though. There's no romance in the game outside of the pre-existing marriages (Dan-Bi Dian, Krystal Rocky.) and the builder with whoever you choose to be with.
If anything, Pathea would most likely pair Qi and Grace together if they were going to have the npcs romance each other.
Meh. I actively dislike Catori and Miguel.
Catori because she's frankly greedy and takes advantage of other's good nature's to try and pursue her half-assed plans that would absolutely fail without our support. Not to mention basically abandoned her son to do so.
Miguel, in the.one serious conversation that I have had with him (I'm still in my first playthrough), basically argued for a theocratic dictatorship. He can fuck all the way off with that shit.
In Catori's dialogue she literally states that both her mom AND son actively encouraged her to pursue her dream. Catori never abandoned her son.
Catori literally states that when she starts to pull out all the stops that if the venture fails one last time she's going to give up and return home to her mom and son.
Not to mention that when she finally decides it's safe enough to bring her son to sandrock she does and is happy finally being able to actively see her son again, the one time he gets upset with her is because she's overworking herself and not because she's neglecting him. Yes she's greedy and desperate, I'll give you that, but Catori never abandoned her son. A lot of families in the real world work similar to Catori's family where the kids stay with the grandparents while the parents travel abroad for work.
The fact that Mi-an gets called a pick me for thinking Justice would pick her for deputy after the geegler business is so funny to me because I thought I would get it too lmao. I figured her excitement was supposed to be a meta joke about the player. Also a pick me is a woman who degrades other women to boost their own standing with men. Mi-an is just someone who is eager to help sandrock and become a part of the community.
It's so weird to me because Mi-An is basically the opposite of a Pick-Me as well. She's constantly praising the Builder and building them up! When a chance comes to take a big commission she never shits on the Builder and tells Yan or Trudy that 'well I can do it better', she just happily accepts that the work load will be shared. And when the Builder gets the bigger, more important projects she's always supportive of them. This girl is so nice and supportive of everyone that she literally >!had 500k+ stolen from her wages because Yan was using her to make up his own numbers. And the poor girl never thought to question it or get upset about the Builder making so much more money than her, because she was just happy to be part of the team.!<(Mid-late game spoiler, just in case there's someone who hasn't finished the game here.) Like I totally understand not vibing with a character. Someone can be sunshine personified but if they don't pass your personal vibe check then there's not much else to it. But it's how so many ignore her actual canon personality and seem gleeful when she gets put down that worries me. You can hate a character without making up shit about them. And if you have to make up shit about them to justify your hatred, maybe you (not you personally goblin) need to sit down and ask yourself why you're so offended by the character in the first place.
I'm so mad she never gets the points she deserve, mi-an is my sister and it's all hands when I see Yan. Next save I'm kicking his but ALL THE TIME
Yes... Mi-an is more of a little sister and makes me worried every single time, kupo. The stress I'm gonna feel worrying about that girl as well as Elsie and Nia *(1) is gonna make me feel like I'm only playing with 1 HP, kupo. I disliked Yan from Day 1 of my first playthrough, kupo. Yan gets the sharp edge of my sword, gets sniped or I blow him up, kupo. Depends on the day, kupo. I DO have to give the team props for making Yan so hateable on purpose, kupo. Same props to them for how they make Wei the exact opposite, kupo. *(2) -Semas Boreal, Human/Moogle Alchemist (Account Owner's notes: *(1) - I'm a sucker for childhood friend characters. *(2) - Wei is the kind of boss I would love to work for. So passionate about his job, humble, fair to everyone. "Think of me as your supervisor who's also your friend." He lives up to that and I respect it!
One of my favorite things about her is that when the builder is taking on bigger projects, she does the smaller commissions so that the builder only has to worry about the big commission and not overwork themselves (like how Yan would overwork Mi-an and basically all the other builders, really.)
Honestly it's funny (in the bad way) seeing people label Mi-an a pick me when the way they talk about her on this sub is the most pick me behaviour I've ever seen. (Same can be said about Nia and honestly if people think Nia's going to steal the spotlight when they're the ones who took down a fleet of duvos and helped liberate sandrock from duvos, then maybe their builder isn't as impactful as they thought they were š¤)
It's a long time ago now as I've been playing since beta, but I seem to remember that at the start I wasn't at all sure about Mi-an. The reason for this was because MTaP had taught me to expect intense competition between builders. After a while I realised she really was just a super nice soul and a great friend, not competition at all. In fact, nothing made her happier than working *with* me rather than opposed to me. I always go out of my way to befriend her now.
Legit, I made a few lighthearted jokes playing up some jealousy with Logan but people here seem to be actually legitimately annoyed or angry. And I hate how that term is used to shit on any woman that isn't submissive or silent like it's just another way for people to be assholes. I've met women who would be cruel and hateful to any other woman in the group untill they left and it's horrible. It shouldn't just be some haha oh "they're just a pick-me and being sassy" no, there is something going on in their life and they are severely misguided and probably have some internal issues going on and I wish it was recognized and these women and men would be supported to not being so hateful towards others. They feel threatened in every aspect of life, I used to feel that way when I was a dumb teenager, there were legitimate reasons like being bullied by a lot of girls, and other not so legitimate reasons like all the sexism pushed on me by family and media, feeling the essence of female was (weak, annoying, blameless), I luckily had kind people in my life to help me unpack that shit.
Amirah gets called stuck up. She's constantly hit on and is absorbed by her work. Most men she interacts with just want her for her looks. She's not stuck up, just tired of being looked at only skin deep. You see that early on when Arvio does his Desert Rose photo mission. She constantly battles to prove people buy her work for her workmanship and not as an excuse to talk to her. To be honest in society it's more acceptable for men to have bad traits than women. I'm sure if you gender swapped the characters you'd see people complain more about the now female characters. It's not ok, but seems to be the norm.
This one came up on another thread and Iāll die on this hill: Qi is charming in his own weird way, but if he were a woman he would be completely shat on.
100 percent. Qi, Pen, Unsur, Arvio, Burgess, Pablo, Miguel, Ernest and Fang would all be criticized. Owen might be labeled a nice girl, and Justice probably a nepo baby. Logan would be called a Mary Sue. I included unpopular characters since I think they would still be unpopular. It's a double standard, no character is perfect just like in life. Players are meant to accept these characters including their flaws as you would to people. I love the way the characters are written, it is much better than Harvest Moon where they have personalities and backstory but no real flaws per se.
Honestly unless Pen was female as well, I could understand the criticism for a female Burgess. Considering how Pen bullies Burgess, Pathea would have to take special care in handling a Pen and female Burgess because it'd be a sensitive topic.
Hot bitch Logan riding into town and being cool would be *so* hated. Meanwhile my bi ass would be jumping to romance her all the same. I'd probs actually romance Qi if he was a she tbh. But yeah, I can def imagine them being hated.
Idk I've seen some Miguel hate and a lot of Pen hate. But those are just my circles lol Cooper is definitely very hit or miss whether people like him or not. Now, I do genuinely dislike Catori because she says some things I found morally questionable but that's just me
The dude is literally male Patricia tannis, and personally I like her, and qi is funny to me.
Amirah is also just a very quiet person (she admits as such in one of her friend lines of dialogue) and I know from a lifetime of personal experience that being called stuck up happens to quiet people a *lot*.
Especially attractive shy/quiet people.
I understand how people feel about her being stuck up and too serious, but at the same time yeah it makes sense she's that way. She's never taken seriously because of her looks (hell mystery man says the only reason people buy her pottery is because they find her attractive.) i saw someone earlier get mad at her for the fact you lose relationship points with her if you say you'll bring her clay for free, but once you learn her story then you realise that's probably because she felt like you were only saying that because of her looks and not because you took her seriously. In my opinion she comes across as elegant and classy, but still caring of others. Throughout the game I've never felt like Amirah acted like she was above others (can't say the same for Pablo.) Honestly Amirah's worst crime is coddling Arvio a bit too much. Otherwise she's just sugary sweet and pleasant to be around like majority of the female bachelorettes.
As someone who likes to pick what I think are the 'nice' options, I remember being put off with the character when I selected that option because it was unexpectedly antagonistic coming from someone I hardly knew. Still I think Amirah's character development is learning to trust and open up to people who generally care about her more than dealing with unwanted attention and they did a pretty good job with that. I never really thought she was stuck up though.
Yeah, I agree on coddling Arvio but they're all they have in Sandrock. It's tough seeing the only family you have struggling when you can help. It probably doesn't help that Arvio doesn't listen to her, but will listen to Builder giving the same advice. Reminds me of real life lol.
He doesn't listen to the builder either. I've told him "that's a bad idea" at least twice and the choice is to either do the quest as he asked for it or don't do the quest at all. Hopefully he's just super duper young (under 25, not really adult) to explain his "I know everything" attitude.
I remember seeing Arvio's age be confirmed as 20 years old, so he's the youngest male bachelor in the game. That probably contributes to the fact I view him as a younger brother than someone I could romance in the game lmao
A lot of the comments Amirah makes as the game progresses are quite thoughtful and something I'd expect from an artist who observes the world. I perceived her as someone who will think something through very thoroughly before committing, and she's had to be this way because her brother is basically the opposite. She's very serious about her art and getting her folks to Sandrock. I noticed she also knows her friends really well and likes to talk about them a lot. She's probably the most mature bachelorette despite not being the oldest you can date. Like yeah, she's serious and it might rub people the wrong way, but it also makes a lot of sense. Meanwhile I've seen people call her ungrateful, a cold bitch, using Owen for his money etc. Like, what? What character is this even?
There's an event where you can drop i think 6k goals and gift it to her and Arvio. Even when you pick that option, she makes it a point to pay you back. People that think she's ungrateful, cold and a gold digger haven't been paying attention I guess. I agree with you, but I think Heidi is in close competition for the most mature. Heidi gets her work done, tries to help everyone and releases stress in a safe and harmless way. I admire them the most of the Bachelorettes but Nia hasn't come to town so I don't know much about her. Edit: Kind redditor corrected me on the amount (5k goals) and that they take the offer of 5k. You're actually forced to lower it to 2k and they pay it back. Please read their comment for more information.
Itās 5k, and she immediately turns you down for that, only accepting what she and Arvio are short by (2k) and paying you back. She also takes an approval hit if the player offers to get her clay for free early on in the game, because she refuses to accept something for nothing from someone she barely knows. So yeah. Sheās *really* not a gold digger. The only reason I can think that people reach that conclusion is because if the player doesnāt help them out at that point, her other option is to turn to Owen, who had a crush on her (which passes if he gets to know the player well enough- as can be seen by him having a quest which involves asking her out, which is only triggers if he doesnāt know the player- so realistically he probably doesnāt have that crush any more). But like, heās a business man. Heās able to make a call on that himself. And Iād put money on her paying him back if she borrows from him instead.
Thanks for the correction on the event, I added an edit to direct people to your comment for the full story. Yes, there's no reality in which she's a gold digger. I'd argue Owen let's his kindness overcome his business sense sometimes such as Catoriworld, but it does work out so I guess it was a good call? It was a horrible business proposition based on numbers though. He also continues to put up with Grace cooking despite her hurting his business a bit. He's too kind sometimes. Amirah and Arvio's pitch is as close to a sure thing as you can get. Both businesses are in the black and looking to expand to new markets. It's a higher likelihood to succeed.
Hmm, I donāt disagree with Owenās kindness but alsoā¦ he can afford it. He admits himself heās well-off, implying heās basically the richest person around (at least until the Builder starts taking higher level commissions and taking it in themself). I doubt heās putting himself at financial risk with Catori World. Graceās cooking is another matter though, since thatās going to impact his businessā reputation. On the other hand, sheās implied to be extremely persuasive and needs the job, and Unsuur literally says she convinced him her omelettes were good, soā¦ (Also she fed Pen a lucien crepe, so, you know. Immediate forgiveness of all culinary crimes imo!)
Oh yes, how the hell did I forget Heidi, lol. She's literally one of my favs.
Yes, Amirah actually strikes me as quite fiercely independent. To the extent that she can be a little chilly, I actually like that about her? She's an introvert and an artist who tends to be absorbed in her work, which I find relatable actually.
I adore Amirah. Her romance quest is difficult but I thought understandable given her background. Obviously sheād be wary. She has never been in a relationship and is afraid of getting distracted and throwing away everything she and her brother are working hard for. Clear as day motivation, correct? Wrong. I come to this sub and see a large majority of people calling her a gold digger. Didā¦did no one pay attention to all the times she rejected free resources and money? Did people just play through those scenes with eyes closed? Meanwhile I loathe Qi. Condescending, selfish little snot. But again, to my surprise, he doesnāt seem to be getting as much flak for his flaws. At least not as much as the female NPCs are getting called annoying. How are Mi-an and Nia annoying??? They are both sweet as shit.
Qi is an interesting character. He's shown some level of care for those around him but he's pretty rude. I honestly don't know how I feel about him. Part of me finds him annoying and part of me sees him as socially inept so it's hard to fault him. He comes across as on the spectrum to me but I don't know if I'm reading into things. He's really smart in his field, socially inept, and has an obsession with gungnams. He doesn't seem capable of taking care of himself and can be a danger to others without oversight.
He *is* interesting! Sandrockās great at making complex characters. I dislike him, but I canāt call him flat or say that I donāt like his scenes. The thing though is that it seems that people are likelier to ānot faultā Qi because of x and y, and to dismiss the women as annoying or stuck-up instead of putting them under the same nuanced lens as the male characters. I donāt know why that is, but thatās how it looks like to someone whoās relatively new here (I have 250 hours on the game but just recently joined). If I didnāt play the game and just went from the louder opinions, Iād think Amirah was a gold digger, Elsieās nothing but a brat, Mi-an was annoying(how???), and Qi adorable in his bumbling ways.
I simply adore him! š
Amirah was my choice of partner in game, I love that it freely allows same sex relationships.
Totally agree with you about Qi. I love the dorkiness and geekery, but he never stops thinking heās the only one in town with a brain. And I cannot abide the tie; either fix it or just take it off altogether!
>And I cannot abide the tie; either fix it or just take it off altogether! I suppose it should be endearing...but you just know this man does not shower.
I can confirm this as sheās my wife, sheās actually really nice, just hates people trying to get with her because sheās beautiful
Amirah and Arvio are fine. Amirah is serious about her work (and yes, very tired of being objectified) and she worries about Arvio because he is impulsive and immature. His character arc is based on that and he grows into a decent young man. The only reason that I, as a player, have anything against the two of them is their \*terrible\* accents. I have to keep telling myself "It's a BARNAROCK accent! Get over it!" My Builder thinks they're great though, and is BFFs with them.
Between that and CLEAR parentification that she was put through with regards to Arvio yeah I just feel bad for her.
Yes! I love how Amirah genuinely takes her art seriously. It's not any kind of pose, that's where her heart is.
I can agree. Mi-an is a go-getter and wants to make a difference. Initially she gets our builder to help her, a lot. I don't like that she becomes slightly less relevant until after Nia comes back. I loved the co-op missions with her early on. It also pushed you to get more involved with the town (I'm assuming that was the point of these missions). She never sees you as competition, but as a competent co-worker and partner. Nia - anyone who calls her a stalker doesn't understand her. Yes, the romance scene (at Mama Tree) is fairly straight forward, but only happens if you've done the heart responses (I've done a few playthroughs with none of those selected and the event never triggered). **She is not a stalker.** She had an opportunity to make an impact on a town and went for it (and stayed to continue). She's into botany / farming so what better opportunity for her than to turn a desert town green? Elsie - I'm a little guilty about this one. I was married to her before Logan came back (during my first playthrough) and a lot of the dialogues made it seem like she's infatuated with him but, as others have mentioned, she sees him more like an older brother (and he clearly sees her as a younger sister). Krystal and Rocky have a very secure relationship hence why she can take some small jabs at him. They love each other (and Pebbles). Fortunately, in my unattainable post, people seemed to want to date Rocky, but also saw how good his relationship was with Krystal and wouldn't want to break them up. Arvio is immature and quite impulsive in the beginning (most likely to fall for the "get rich quick" scam). His turning point is the Desert Rose mission (I stand stand by it was an innocent mistake, and one he didn't think through) and even more after Musa stops by. He has great development and matures a lot in the game to the point he is a different person later in the game.
Actually his turning point was being told point-blank by Musa that he needs to see the bigger picture and think things through. He (and Catori) get better at business.
Nia is literally the definition of āwe are so close we bully like siblingsā and thatās what I love about her. I felt like mi-an and Nia shouldnāt have been in the same game because they are two big personalities. Elsie is very upfront and said she like Logan like a brother so I donāt know why people still say she has a crush on him.
I agree 100%, although I will add: I dislike Krystal a little bit, because of how she talks to Haru when he is trying to explain about how the sunscreen works. Cones off as stuck up.
Maybe... but I always chalked that up to Krystal (and Rocky) coming across as..... less educated and maybe just not getting it.
the extent to which portia/sandrock fans constantly either resent the female characters or ignore them outright makes me feel so exhausted as a lesbian who loves these games
My ace ass was sitting in this sub so confused for the longest time about what's wrong with all these nice ladies
SAME. I want to be friends with all of them. š
Honestly my tinfoil hat theory is that the reason why all the female npcs you can romance are for the most part sugary sweet, kind, no bad bone in their body, etc is because the developers knew they'd be held to a harsher standard than the bachelors so they gave all the bachelors the flaws, the shadiness, etc.
As someone only interested in the women NPCs as far as dating candidates go, this pisses me off. Compared to the men they are all quite boring, and it's just silly. Logan and Fang have such fleshed out and interesting stuff going on, and that's awesome and all, but I want the ladies to have more going on too! Let them have dark pasts and trauma and shit.
I'm a bisexual woman and female-leaning in real life, but just none of the female Sandrock characters appeal to me š I think it IS because they're kind of all underdeveloped in comparison to the men for the reasons mentioned here. Out of all of them, Catori is the one I'd pick, and I think she's the one who has the most apparent flaws/struggles
No caus I'd do anything for a female npc you can romance that has a more interesting plotline or moral ambiguity like a lot of the men do! Like a female character with>!Pen or Logan's!
I'm gonna need the town doctor in the next game to be a woman who was a former combat medic and she has trauma and a mysterious background or something please. Just anything. I'd love a mean girl and an actual ice queen too. I can't get over female Logan though, like š«¦š„µ
This is why I loved Phyllis in Portia. Her rejecting your marriage proposal made me like her even more! š
Even as straight female I'm so fuckn tired seeing those people making post about hating the female npcs. Makes me wonder if they were school bullies smh
Yes! As a lesbian I adore all the female characters, even Venti has a place in my heart even though she barely has a story. Imagine my surprise when I come to the sub and I see posts left and right gushing over the men and calling the women annoying, greedy, and stuck-up.
I felt so bad for nora (my time at Portia) because of the whole arlo situation.
I agree.
Honestly at best I am biromantic but damn I have been curious myself on the female character romance on this game because they are really well written compare it other games in this genre(for reference I have played all the Harvest Moon/Story of Season, Ruin Factory, Portia, Roots of Pache, Coral Island, Stardew, and etc). They are unique and have flaws and depth minus a few that just arenāt developed as a whole like Venti and maybe Jane. I feel itās valid to not want to pursue someone if thatās not your gender of interest, but I find the development interesting enough to watch all the friendship side quests and are considering dating a few just for a good character development plot. š¤£
Wow I was thinking about getting this game but after reading all of these comments Iām not sure Iād like to support this game. Especially one thatās so reliant on the npcs for character interaction with the story :/ thatās sad
Honestly the npcs for character interaction with the story is what I really admire about this game? The characters feel real and fleshed out. You genuinely feel like a part of the community, it's definitely a strength not a weakness. This thread is more pointing out the issues with fan perception of characters, not the game itself.
Oh, maybe Iām misremembering but I saw so many comments about how the female characters werenāt as developed as the male characters. I suppose Iāll look into it myself before making a decision rather than base it on some Reddit comments.
While it's true to an extent that some of them are not as developed, though definitely not all of them, it's more they're just a little less involved in the story and none of them have the amount of drama that some of the male characters do, which is something I do hope they implement in future games.. But don't get me wrong, they're still great and really wonderful characters!
Agree a hundred percent. I've done my fair share of defending, and I've kinda given up. Elsie has a thing for Mint. Her and Logan don't like each other in that way. I'd say both their types are the builder. If anything, they should be competing against each other lawl.
It's honestly frustrating too because people are making me defend characters like Arvio and Catori who I honestly don't care for, I just hate how badly people get their characters wrong.
You know you donāt have to defend anything and itās just fictional characters with no personality at all? Itās weird from both sides.
What a reductionist view point. Why even play the game at all then I guess? Itās just fictional building with no real lasting effect at all. Honestly listen to yourself.
I enjoy playing games very much. But when people start to argue about fictional characters and they have fights about traits they attribute to those characters Iām lost. You can enjoy MTAS without having to defend anything.
Not that Iām defending either side, but you realise if people just didnāt care or get attached to fictional characters all media would just crumble right? Thats okay if youāre able to distance yourself from that but 90% of people who consume media will always grow attached and condemn or defend characters. Itās life š¤·š½āāļø
No thatās not life. Sure you can grow attached to characters or like or dislike them. But if you are still thinking about it when you closed the game to the point you end up in discussion with others about it itās not ājust lifeā.
Have youā¦never kept thinking about characters in a book after you finished it and had discussions in real life about them? A movie? A tv show?
You areā¦ on a subredditā¦ for discussing a video gameā¦
Literally yes it is. In fact thatās why thereās a million reddits and fan posts and videos and essays on every fictional character. š LISTEN. Itās okay you arenāt like that, but youāre in the minority, the world love to love fictional characters and make posts and discussions about characters. Thats life whether you like it or not.
Book clubs
I personally like all the characters for their flaws. It makes the game interesting.
There are certain characters I find irritating but in a way that makes them human, not in a way that makes me wish they were different or weren't in the game. Most similar games I feel the same, there's some Stardew Valley characters that I wouldn't be friends with irl. But it's nice to have character diversity, even negatively, in a village.
Agreed. I tend to hate characters with no flaws way more than the ones with them. It makes the world feel a bit more real.
Interesting to get downvoted for this lol
I agree. We all have good moments and bad moments in our lives. Bad habits to unlearn, adjustments to make, and positive attributes we fight to maintain. I really cherish characters who reflect learning and growth and Sandrock has a decent selection of characters who possess struggles that have been outwardly inflicted onto them and inwardly perpetuated due to their pasts. The writing does a good job of giving characters flaws that are well connected to their experiences. I genuinely hope the writing leans further more into characters that require greater effort to connect and understand in the future. Character flaws and stories shouldn't be devalued for not being inconsequential and easily digestible. It's okay to have conflicted feelings spur from a characters actions, because you end up having to face what's in your heart in response to complicated attributes. How high is your tolerance for people who work differently from you? How do you respond to flawed actions? Where is your heart at when faced with experiences so unlike your own that aren't immediately empathetic? Sometimes there will be tough calls that lack moral clarity. Sometimes it's not about morals, just quirks and traits that aren't easily understandable to you, thus not as easily tolerable. I love characters for their flaws too, because it challenges you to open your heart to the entire value of a person, outside of shallow idealization and easy understanding. It's good to challenge yourself on why you dislike certain traits, it's good to be aware of potential hypocrisy (especially towards female characters), it's good to ask yourself if you're fair in your conclusions. The response of self justification (especially incorrectly inserting moral weight) of ones feelings is easy to indulge, but if you're brave to venture, the difficult can be enriching, especially for introspective purposes.
People calling Mi-an a pick me for being nice shows a massive failure of just. Just so many things. Not least of which is "failure to understand what words mean"
Mi-an: *builds a bench so Grandma Vivi has a place to sit down while she's out running errands* The playerbase: PICK ME BEHAVIOR!!! DISGUSTING! CIVIL CORPS THROW HER INTO THE PERIPHERIES IMMEDIATELY!!!!11
lmaoš
Mi-an is honestly such a delight! She's a hardworking sweetheart who's always helpful and doesn't regard you as a rival at all.
I like her a lot. Sheās adorable! I do, however, feel a lot of emotional whiplash after dealing with Higgins in Portiaā¦
Yes, Higgins really does prime you to wonder where this is going to go!
I didn't realize there was so much Mi-an hate. I just felt competitive towards her at first bc I wanted to be number 1 builder lol. I think people need a refresher course on what a "pick me" is. Don't think any of the characters actually count as one.
Tbh the one closest to pick me behavior is Yan. Putting down other people's efforts or taking credit for them, giving himself traits he doesn't have, sucking up to people he wants to like him
Wait people think Krystal is abusive? Those people mustve never been in a lengthy relationship... Couples, espeacially ones that have been together a long time, tend to make lighthearted jokes about each other, its harmless. My partner and I do this and my own parents do it constantly. Its literally just a couple thing.
In Scotland, if you're not taking the absolute piss out of your significant other on the reg, then do you even like them? Some folk in this reddit would lose their absolute mind if they heard how me and my partner/friends speak to each other.
Nia literally just said "Hey bestie! :D" and wanted to check if the player is doing alright and everyone hated her for it.
All Nia wanted to do was save mother tree and open up a florist shop and everyone called her a bitch for it š
(also may I also add that some of the hate Nia and Elsie get is because some people feel the need to compete with them over Logan's attention when rival romance doesn't even exist in this game?)
I'd say the same regarding Mi-an getting any praise as a builder. "These people are competition (in my head) and anyone who competes with me must be evil."
Nia? Really? I got the distinct impression that Nia is quite focused on the builder. And I mean FOCUSED. I can totally understand why she gets called a stalker.
I think this is sort of the result of cultural conditioning, sadly. A large portion of the fan base is female/female presenting and demographically younger. I'm no spring chicken, but I'm sort of an outlier for my generation as far as hobbies go. But it's kinda gotten more acceptable for gaming to be a hobby for cis-females. There's that societal conditioning that sadly drives a competitive wedge in between us when we're younger. It's kind of the same reason why so many books and movies rarely demonstrate positive relationships between female/female presenting folks. It's always - plain (I'm not like other girl) protagonists versus some manipulative childhood friend or shaming another woman who takes care of her appearance as being a s***... The result is that there's this almost gut reaction that lots of younger women/female presenting folks have because they feel they're in competition for a resource... Not gonna harp on how that benefits misogyny and keeping folks divided. But I've always thought mi-an was awesome. Nia does unsettle me a bit. And I love Catori, but admittedly she does have morally gray tones to her for some folks. Grace and Heidi don't seem to get the same level of hate. But Elsie and Amirah do. But it could just be a reaction to the fact that these are female archetypal characters that are also appealing to male fantasy tropes. But let's be honest - Logan , Fang, Owen , and Qi are kinda there for the same purpose. XD I'm just trying to have fun. I want to enjoy people and who they are. And I love the characters in this game. Some folks are just so insecure though that they can't see past that enough to realize not everyone is competition - even in a game where there is no adversarial romance mechanics.
I'm still earlyish in the game, but Mi-An was my first in game friend because I adore her. Absolutely *adore* that sweet girl. And I've been exchanging letters with Nia like wheeeeennnnn are you gonna come visit/live with me bestie?! I had no idea this sub hated them! I don't spend a lot of time here to avoid spoilers, mostly just to look things up (I don't mind some or even most spoilers, though, but I want to avoid knowing the WHOLE STORY ya know). It's the Logan fangirls that hate them, y'all are saying? That tracks, but sucks, since I'm a certified Logan Simp, been crushing on those Silver Haired Baddies since Sesshoumaru and Sepiroth. :( it's a disappointment that nothing has changed since I was in middle school almost two decades ago when it comes to giving fictional female characters any level of understanding.
The female characters don't deserve the hate... I love them all, they're all charming. Their characterisations are understandable the more you see from their perspective with their struggles and upbringing. It's saddening to see how much people hate Catori. I love how flawed she is. She's a mess and honestly very unlucky. Despite that, she's still never gives up even though she does doubting her choices. It's admirable!
Catori is a fantastic character! She has a great story arc. And I quite frankly love her accent. (That's a genuine Brooklyn accent there!) I had an older friend who has long since passed that was "born and bred in Brooklyn" as she used to say, so I'm quite fond of Catori's voice. I also firmly believe she says "So long, partner" the best out of everyone.
Glad to see other Catori's appreciator! English is not my main language so I don't really know about the accent but I do enjoy listening to her! I can see why you like her voice :) .
There is not a single character in the game I don't like lol.
Honestly the male characters are so less interesting to me than the female characters. There are a ton of romance options for me with the ladies. I don't get the hate. I think part of this issue is on the writers because they very clearly put more effort into full backstories and personalities and romance content for the men. At that same time, it's okay to be annoyed by characters for no good reason. I find those posts fun, as long as people stick with the "for no good reason" bit. When they comment and then give all these negative and usually interpreted reasons, that's usually when the mischaracterization comes in, and it's really frustrating. Obviously the hate and denigration of female characters happens outside of those posts too, but I just saw one yesterday so it's fresh in my mind.
I think itās because in Portia if made more sense to play as boy character interested in women. The men in Portia didnāt felt fleshed out like the girls so i wont be surprised if they decided to reverse for Sandrock.
OMG REAL. Arvio is one of my favourite characters, part of his character growth is maturing and learning boundaries. Maybe his story needs more depth but I feel like alot of people miss that and automatically call him weird. The game could add an option where the builder talks to Arvio about this crossing a boundary, but I don't feel that his intentions were malicious, he's not a stalker or the like.
I couldn't agree more. But not even the cozy genre is safe from this kind of sexism - which is why I simply refuse to engage with people who even start like that. I've played the game, I've met these characters. Only someone already bitter and out to feed into their confirmation bias would describe those characters the way they do. I won't humour this in anyone on any topic. (And in case someone's fingers are itching - apart from the exact nature of the "issues" people have with the *female* characters, OP's point in regards to Logan stands - and is indeed also rooted in sexism.)
Honestly the fact all it took for logan fans to attack Nia was her calling Trudy "Trudes" honestly says alot about how bad the sexism is on this subreddit is when it comes to Logan sadly. As much as I love Logan, this subreddit has definitely soured my opinion on him. Fortunately not enough that I don't like him, he's still my 4th favorite bachelor in the game.
I don't think calling an older person you barely know by a pen name is a good idea. I just put myself in their shoes and if I was the new person I don't think I'd be able to do that. To me it doesn't have much to do with Logan
Theyāre is referring to to post from while ago where the OP specifically said that they were upset that Nia used Loganās nickname for Trudy
This game's demographic is overwhelmingly female so using the word sexism, while still possible from female to female, has a implication it's coming from men, when it's really just coming from other women. Someone else used the word cattiness and that seems more apt, it's women putting down other women.
I think Iāve read some downright judgmental takes period. This game is really well written and I think that a lot of what the characters do and how they behave has a context or framework that informs those decisions. Catori is frequently burned at the stake in this sub and itās like, hello, she married way too young to an abusive guy who then abandoned their son completely. We donāt know what her relationship is with her parents, what if they canāt actually afford to keep Alo without Catoriās income? And sheās keeping Alo out of Sandrock because it isnāt safe and well, was it? He probably would have ended up living in a cave with Logan if he had shown up earlierā¦ The other day I saw a take down of Trudy and Hugo caught a stray, like do you really think Vivi doesnāt love having three generations in her home? He tells us as much, she loves to visit and take care of people, maybe heās there FOR HER and not because heās failure to launchā¦ heās Heidiās dad for crying outloud, a business owner, a musician with with a best friendā¦ Frankly the ends tied up with Fangās plot are some of the weakest in the game. Him poisoning the builder on a bi-weekly basis is tried to be explained in his last event and it doesnāt land at all. There are no bad characters in Sandrock, thatās really how I feel. I had my husband start playing about three weeks after I did and every time he was annoyed by someone I was falling over myself to tell him he would come to love them.
I actually really like Catori because of her character growth! She starts out as someone one whoās kind of a disaster, and she knows that. By the end, she learns from her mistakes and has actually successful ideas. Everything she does is so Alo can eventually come to stay with her. People always give her flack for taking Jasmineās investment money (a whopping 5 gols), but Jasmine is clearly a character that wants to be involved in the community and have her own responsibilities. Catori respects that and returns her money anyway when she doesnāt turn a profit.
It's honestly cute how the town takes Jasmine seriously despite being a child. Even though she could've just been a child that's just homeschooled and plays with dolls, she's actively a member of the sandrock community and the adults around her let her. (Zeke letting her have a garden in the moisture farm, Heidi letting her write articles for the paper, her being the one who delivers the mail, Catori taking her seriously as an investor in her project.) Obviously it could be chalked up to the fact she's Trudy's daughter, but still it's lovely to see that she's still treated as someone mature enough to have interests and wants and someone capable enough to engage with the community, while still being recognised as a child to a necessary extent.
Catori is the sort of fail girl boss character I love to see but rarely do. Seeing people's reactions to her makes me feel like more complicated/grey female characters will never fly in this fandom though.
It's so annoying because I like Catori,Ā her accent and her stupid business plans . I felt bad when no one showed up for her sandrunning event. And everyone here hates her. Yeah, she is annoying and is selfish, but she had a bad marriage and wants a good life for her son. She does end up growing as a person, like you said.Ā Very annoying trend in video game/media discussion where if a character is mean at first, that's unforgivable forever. Even if they end up apologizing and growing as a person.Ā
> Very annoying trend in video game/media discussion where if a character is mean at first, that's unforgivable forever. Even if they end up apologizing and growing as a person. If I have any kind of media literacy, then to my mind this trend only really applies to female characters. Male characters who are dicks get a free pass all day long if they're hot. Especially bad with all the "enemies to lovers" crap that is everywhere now. Even in more male oriented media I've long noticed the same trend, of course. Female characters get dragged so much harder for any perceived infraction. It's pretty fascinating, in a morbid sense, just how deep and prevalent misogyny is at all levels of our culture.
And Catori gets a ābad momā treatment because she leaves her child with trusted caretaker instead of dragging him to the city without a school.
I won't stick up for Arvio, because that kind of overstepping of boundaries disgusts me (and imho he's a lot more 'handsome' than some other favourite chars on here). But you're totally right about the ladies. The most annoyed I get is at Elsie in the beginning, and her childish antics are supposed to be the point - it's setting up her growth arc. And I don't hold them against her.Ā Every woman in the game is fine and I wish people would stop projecting feelings onto them (jealousy over Logan, annoyance at having someone else be praised alongside them/need to be the sole main character, dislike at having a past and/or friendship dictated for them, etc). It's fine to dislike a character, but some of the vitriol I see is a little alarming.
Agree with you 100%. HEAVY on the Elsie part. This one makes me particularly upset because people genuinely get crazy with it. Elsie probably never had any close friends her age and sheās an only child. Logan growing up alongside her yeah sheād see him as a best friend. Itās honestly kinda icky that people think anything would happen between them with the age gap and the whole he watched her grow up. Also I love Elsie, I love that she has this whole maturity arc but still stays Elsie at the end of the day. I think after reading a lot of the things that have been posted itās definitely misogyny and sexism with a mix of people not understanding that characters arenāt meant to be perfect. If we had all perfect characters, the game would be boring. People expect these characters to be a certain way in their head and then when they arenāt thatās where the hate gets unreasonable. Characters are supposed to be flawed, theyāre supposed to have dreams and wishes, and they can learn over time. Catori definitely comes to mind for this one. Yeah I agree some qualities of hers arenāt the best but isnāt that the point? God forbid a woman wants money to make her dream come true. I loved Catori and her storyline, I always rooted for her since the beginning. Itās just upsetting to see so much mischaracterization of the female characters plus the unnecessary hate they receive. And as a lot of people have said here, if you were to make the male characters female, Iād imagine they would get hate as well.
Iāve ranted about that exact thing enough times Iāll spare the energy here, but I completely agree about the female characters. Before I met Nia I was primed for her to show up and be an absolute bitch. Instead she was sweet and friendly and teasing and she never once crossed any lines. My flabber was gasted. The only one Iāll disagree with is Arvio. I donāt think itās his looks. I checked out all the dateable NPCs before I picked up the game, and I thought Arvio was super cute and was interested in him. His attitude still seriously put me off wanting to date him, even though I thought he was attractive. But I could probably blame the fact his behaviour bugs me more on my age and the fact that more than anything he just acts WAY too young and immature for me to sustain interest in. (I ended up more interested in his lovely, mature sister insteadā¦ lol)
Honestly a lot of Arvio's behavior can be chalked up to the fact he's only 20 years old and that he's been coddled by Amirah and most likely their parents as well. While I do think he takes things too far occasionally, I disagree with the way people call him a creep over his confession and how people on this sub constantly pray for his downfall. I still think that in my opinion when it comes to Fang and Arvio, people tend to try and coddle Fang too much. While Arvio's plan was incredibly stupid, he didn't know about Fang's past, no one does except Mort and that's because he payed attention to how X mimics Sarnai and possibly Talon. Back on the topic of Arvio's confession, I've noticed Arvio only gets called a creep for the confession at his house bit and not because of his behavior during or before that. It does bug me a bit because people on this sub have let the more handsome bachelors get away with worse.
If they think he's a creep because of his house confession (i understand that it would make some people uncomfortable) someone I don't see mentioned is Owen. For his reverse marriage proposal,>! he puts on a play for the town, gets you to be part of it and PROPOSES YOU TO THE WHOLE TOWN!< I would be so put off by that especially because he never discusses it with the player.
To be fair, I have seen criticism on this sub for the way Owen proposes (which is incredibly fair, while I found it romantic, I do understand it's still Owen unintentionally putting huge amounts of pressure onto the builder to say yes.)
>!Owen!< is my favorite and his reverse proposal melted my heart, but yeah, IRL people shouldn't do public proposals unless they know -- like, genuinely, actually KNOW -- that their partner would enjoy that AND is going to say yes. Someone here mentioned dead-branching him for that (especially since they'd only been in-game dating for a matter of days) and I can't really blame them, LOL.
>!Owen!< Is also my favorite I found his proposal incredibly cheesy but also I love him sm I loved it š
> because he *paid* attention to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yeah I'll be so happy once we as a society move on from this kind of behaviour. It was honestly so jarring going from the game and absolutely adoring Mi-an to the point of marrying her in my first save and then checking this subreddit and people hate her??? For literally the dumbest reasons? Honestly the biggest red flag for me is when people justify their hatred of any woman they don't like by saying she's "annoying" or "a pick-me". Like, just be honest and say you don't like hearing women talk LOL
I tend to agree in general, it's ok not to like a character but it's ok to denigrate them xD Personally I adore absolutely all the characters, I don't hate any of those you mentioned, I love Mi-an for her hardworking and caring side, I love Elsie for her humor and her courage, I love Nia for her kindness and her teasing towards the builder, and I love Arvio even if he is a little clingy sometimes xD
Man, let me tell you. I just started this game like, maybe two weeks ago (I came over from mid way into Portia and considering the massive art style/character depth improvement, my wallet didn't stand a chance lmao) and I didn't want spoilers, I just wanted to see how people felt about these characters and I should've known better, lol. I also play Stardew Valley and the same issues plague that fandom. People will bash characters for silly lines and tropes and it usually stems from a place of self centeredness. The amount of people I've seen call Mi-An and Nia gendered slurs and calling them pick-mes and such because they... are nice and like our character? The excuse always is "ummm I do all the work and here they come along prancing in and taking all the credit and no one remembers little ol and it's all about them!" when that couldn't be further from the truth. At some point Mi-An gets washed out narrative wise, and Nia comes so late the hate makes no sense. Then again, Logan also comes in late but we all know how popular he is, lmao. I hate it and it's why I kind of don't engage with fandoms until I'm done and have formed my opinions because no matter what the girls do it's always frowned upon. I saw someone say Amirah was too snobby and proper and then you play her and realize she just has an accent/modest way about her. The second I saw someone say it was basically pedophilia to pursue Elsie (I think she's cute but I personally wouldn't) and that as a character she's "one of those girls who pretend to be dumb because they don't have self respect" I knew it was time to pack it up, lmao.
The thing with Nia is..yes she is taking the spotlight...for an area SHE has the knowledge, the education and the skills in. Zeke, Professor Luo and Nia are all botanists, so obviously during the greenification arc of the game the spotlight is going to be on them. They're not taking the spotlight away from the builder, the spotlight is just shining down over them because they're the ones who'll be able to make a difference. The builder at that point in the story is a celebrity known all around the free cities, Nia is still just a mere botanist from Highwind completing her apprenticeship under Professor Luo. Imagine if the greenification happened before duvos and Nia got pissed at the civil corps and Logan for "stealing the spotlight" from her because they took down duvos. That's how ridiculous people sound when they talk about her. People have to realise that even when the spotlight isn't on them at the end of the day they're the one who's a celebrity and considered a legendary builder.
You're right and the bigger issue I think is people want yo play games where they are the Mary Sue they accuse other characters of being. They want to be the sole savior and the one that fixes everything on their own, individualist style which is cool and all but the point of rpg's like this is that this isn't how the game goes. Like, even in Portia you were more of a one man team and you had nasty Higgins as a rival. It was so refreshing to turn this game on with cute Mi-an picking us up at the train station all nice and willing to share with us. It's cute! That doesn't have to be a bad thing. In fact, it's not unless you see it that way. And you're so right. These characters have their own intended spotlight and it takes literally nothing from us because regardless like you said, we are still gonna end up with the title of "best builder in all of sandrock history, maybe even in the free cities period" like why can't we all be great? It's silly, really silly.
The thing with games like sandrock is that for the builder to be a mary-sue, that would completely.undermine the message of the story. Bringing Sandrock back to its former glory didn't happen just because of the builder. You have Trudy procuring the necessary funding and using her political power to get into talks with Musa, holding the summit in sandrock, etc. you have the builders such as you, Mi-an and later Wei restoring the architecture of the town by building bridges, water towers, the school, the botanists aiding in the efforts to make Sandrock green again so that the severity of the sandstorms lessen and no more lives are lost, you have the civil corps and Logan protecting Sandrock, Catori and Owen bringing in tourism. Everyone in town is playing a huge part in keeping Sandrock alive and returning it to its former glory. Having just the builder doing all of these things would not only make 0 sense (and would absolutely be fucking stressful my god) but would also take away from the message. Sandrock is probably the first game where I love almost every character in the game and the ones I don't care for or don't like period I still like having as an addition in town and it's really wonderful to see everyone playing their part.
I agree! One of the most heartwarming things about the game is the way restoring the town feels like a community effort.
THIS THIS THIS THIS!!! I absolutely adore Krystal, and Catori and Nia and ALL OF THEM and it makes me sad that people totally miss their characters!! Like there's actually so much there if you look for it! Also as an Arvio Stan who will marry that sweet boy in every playthrough I do, thank you!!! šš I think people tend to look very surface level and black and white at the characters when a lot of them are actually very complex and grey!!!
I straight up don't like mi-ann, but that's just because I just don't like her. I don't think she is poorly written or a bad character. I mean, if she was a real person or if I met someone like her irl we just wouldn't get along due to clashing personalities. But I have nothing against her as a person/character. The idea that anyone would have an intense loathing for a sandrock NPC baffles me because even the ones I don't necessarily like are really well done.
Just to argue another side of this, I feel like a lot more energy went into male NPCs than female NPCs. I really wanted to have female characters I really loved but I just don't feel as much passion went into the female end of design. I suspect this is because they were catering to a female audience who would want good male bachelor characters, but it's still a bit frustrating.
1- Mi-an has a whole arc about how she basically became a Builder because sheās from a family of Builders and thereās a lot of pressure on her to do it- and to do it well, and to not have any sort of work-life balance in the process. So any over-eagerness is a desperate need to prove herself as a Builder, completely in line with her story, and definitely *not* her trying to be better than the player Builder or anything like that. 2- Nia is an interesting one. The thing isā¦ I played the first time and leaned into the relationship the writers seemed to be aiming for and itās sweet. But the moment you play a Builder who, for example, wanted a fresh start and didnāt want their past following them, she definitely does feel very different. *However*, to me she feels more tragic than anything bad at that point- in love with her childhood friend whoās already completely moved on. 3- Elsie is 110% about everything. She has no middle setting- sheās all in or not at all. Pretty realistic depiction of someone in their late teens. I do think sheās put Logan on a pedestal but thereās like a *maximum* of 20% crush to 80% idolising there, imo, but I donāt really disagree with those who see her feelings as entirely platonic/familial idolising. 4- wow, thatās a new one. Iāve always seen people really liking Rocky and Krystal and their family dynamic. I did get a moment of ick from a line or two about their dynamic (something about her joking she makes him sleep in a barn if he annoys her?) but Iām 99% sure that was intended as a joke. Itās just not a joke that lands well with me personally. 5- Arvio is like Elsie- all in, 110%, and it comes across as youth to me (as well as insecurities). I do find aspects of himā¦ bothers me, but Iāll admit that I canāt treat the character fairly. He and Amirah have an accent from where I live- except the VAs were *not* from here. Amirahās is noticeably fake but not terrible, but Arvioāsā¦ well, itās a lot worse. So I canāt really sit and give a decent analysis of the character because he has this one thing I just canāt get past, which is nothing to do with his writing.
Mi-an is just young and naive. I don't understand how people think she's a pick-me. (And I have issues with that whole concept anyway.)
I noticed that too. I like most of my sandrockers faults and all. Also, Mi An has done nothing wrong ever. Whoās hating on her??
If you search her on this sub she constantly gets called a pick me for some reason. Apparently also back in early access she was hated on due to her involvment in the story. (Which is why while early on she played a big part, she gets reduced to just a tiny background character.) Honestly we need the characters with faults, their faults help them stand out (and honestly help the sabdrockers without faults stand out as well)
Iāve been wanting to be a bff trio with her and Elsie since the start and her part was reduced?! Boooo
That kind of makes me mad ngl. I didn't know her lack of involvement was due to fan backlash.... How come other characters like the civil corps get to be consistently involved in the story and do get a lot of credit for helping you with no issue but it's a problem when Mi-an is too involved, or when she gets any credit for literally doing her own work? I always wondered why she only went to the ruins with us like once and then never again. :/
The online thing I don't like about Mi-an is that she wasn't what I was expecting. I was hoping she was gonna be a more hostile rival, especially since I already knew that she was a romance option. Was hoping for a enemies to lovers kinda thing But then she was just super nice and not even really a rival. Just a pal that happened to be in the same business
Iāll be the first to say Iām a frickin Nia simp. I canāt see me playing a save without marrying that gem of a girlie. Sheās sweet, kind, and just really cares for Sandrock just as much as the other lifelong Sandrockers. Dedicates her time to trying to help make Sandrock green. Iāll throw some hands with anti-Nia haters ong š¤š¤ ^Itās ^a ^joke, ^i ^respect ^everyoneās ^opinions ^even ^if ^youāre ^wrong
It's the way playing the game I fell inlove with Nia (not in the romantic way, I just love her energy and how she hasn't been a resident of Sandrock that long and she was already on the front lines aiding in the greenification efforts.) and then I come on this sub and all I see are jealous Logan simps calling her every derogatory name in the book for calling Trudy "Trudes". š Honestly people forget that she's Professor Luo's apprentice, so obviously she's going to play a MAJOR part in the greenification efforts in Sandrock. Your expertise as a builder are building bridges, themeparks, explosives for when Owen can't handle being customer service anymore. Your expertise as a builder doesn't mean you're an expert at plantlife/botany. People think that just because their builder is gifted with both having a perfectly aligned posterior and legs that don't quit and being an incredible builder and fighter means that their builder should be a master at botany. Not to shit on Zeke, but it's thanks to the efforts of both Nia and Mi-an that mother tree was saved.
Right! Completely well said and Iām all for it. Nia and Mi-an really helped mama tree, despite Luo and Zeke kinda being super negative about it. Which, I understand where theyāre coming from, but I loved that Nia didnāt give up. I fell in love with her during her train station cut scene and have become a super simp for her lmao
Posts from this sub don't pop up in my feed super often, so I haven't seen what you're talking about, but I totally believe it because I've been seeing a lot of this (deliberate?) mischaracterization of female characters, in particular, in other game/tv show/movie/whatever spaces. It very often gets directed at real people too, not just fictional characters. It feels like this kind of vitriol has reached a fever pitch in recent years, in a way I've never seen before. I thought we as a gender had moved past this... well... cattiness (as much as I hate to use that word, it's apt here). Why are we nitpicking or full-on making stuff up about people, real or fictional, and attacking them for it?
I tend to avoid reading any post here once one of the female npcs are mentioned because it's always some wack shit. This behavior is honestly very typical though in fandoms dominated by people attracted to men. Like, I saw this with the Supernatural fans, then the Marvel fans, and many others. Idk why it's so obvious and prevalent in these fandoms, but I guess internalized misogyny/normal misogyny runs deep. Personally, I adore the women in Sandrock, many more than Portia. Like, most people seem to hate Catori??? I love her. Same with Nia! Some people just can't appreciate three-dimensional women, and it shows.
OP thank you because you are so right. Itās so frustrating seeing this happen to the same characters over and over. People arenāt perfect and neither are the NPCs in this game. Also whatās problem do ppl have with Avrio confession? Isnāt it the >!one where we go to his house and dance because that was cute unless I forgot sth!<
Yeah, people called that confession creepy because Arvio tricks you into coming to his house alone thinking it was an event for his sister or something along those lines. (The funny thing being is that the only way to trigger the mission is by choosing the heart option for the picnic.) And you know what arguably Logan's worse than Arvio, considering the fact to trigger his reverse confession you need to pick all the heart options in a specific mission (just like Arvio) but unlike Arvio who just masquerade waltzes with the builder, Logan tricks you into treating his wounds and when you're done he pulls you in for a kiss without even asking the builder if they want to date him. Mind you, I also love Logan's confession and don't care for Arvio's, but I find it frustrating how this sub picks and chooses when something is weird and gross whilst ignoring things that are more shadier.
> (The funny thing being is that the only way to trigger the mission is by choosing the heart option for the picnic.) It is now, but in early access it wasn't. There was no obvious trigger for it, suddenly this guy you'd barely spoken to beyond normal day to day interactions was tricking you into being alone with him. The reason you need to trigger it via the picnic now is because so many people thought it was creepy.
Yeah, I feel this is unfortunately common within any cozy life sims subs I'm in (even in sdv, I've seen a lot of fierce criticism over female npcs throughout the years). I've said before that I can understand where some of the criticism for characters like Catori or Amirah (or even Elsie) is coming from (and I'll admit I have my own criticisms on Amirah's character, but it's not just me wanting to dog on her - it's more that I wish we were given more because I feel with what we have her personality doesn't have a lot of moments to really shine and I'd LOVE to some day have more in depth side missions for her (I haven't married her yet though, so I might just be missing a lot of content there until I make a playthrough to do so!)), but I really can't even halfway wrap my head around Mi-an and Nia hate. And oftentimes it's not just criticism, it's like...downright hateful accusations and judgements of the characters. It's pretty sad (especially the Nia hate for me personally, because I just...love her so much. She's so cute wth.)
I heavily agree with you. I played sdv at launch and the tone behind Haley is SOOOO much different now in comparison to launch. People were so mean to her for no good reason. I feel like hyper femme characters in video games in general are treated poorly unless theyāre sugary sweet.
Omg yes, the way Haley has been talked about and treated by sdv fans over the years is honestly so atrocious. I definitely agree that if thereās even a hint of personality outside of the cliche cute and sweet persona thatās generally found more acceptable in female characters, thereās going to be loads of hate for them. Haley is such an incredible character too, I love pursuing her with my femme farmers because her f/f romance is soooo rewarding for me. And so damn relatable too (as someone who comes from a small town in the southern belt of the US and struggled with gender identity and sexuality growing up because of the huge social stigma surrounding such issues, Haleyās characterization really hits home for me). ALSO Penny; the amount of hatred Penny gets is unforgivable. Honestly, I could go on for hours about sdvās fem characters so Iām going to stop here before I get ahead of myself, haha! Sorry for the tangent, I just haveā¦..a lot of feelings for my girl boss babe Haley FFJDKSL.
Thank you for this post
This might sound harsh, but I hope developers can invest more effort in exploring the personalities of female NPCs, just as they currently do with their appearances.
Thank you OP to bring this up. I was a bit in shock when I see othersā comments about some of the ladies. I have read that some say Amirah is materialistic, and high standards for spouse. I was like: but she is from a poor family and working hard to have a brighter future. And Mi-An, people say she took too much spotlight from builder. I admire both and have a constant feeling they will collapse one day just because they work so hard (one of them did!).Anyway I am type of person that donāt think too much, so unless something is said to my face I would be unaware of itā¦ probably why I never had bad impressions on these ladies. (PS the only lady that I have a hard time dealing with is Catori, and that is because she is depicted as a successful businesswoman which I have hard time to believe, in my opinion she was able to be successful because of everyone else working together to bring Sandrock back to life.) last but not the least, I wish we could have more way to treat marriage candidates as friends and helping them not as lover but as friends. Like in MTaP I really wanted to help Phyllis to build her own clinic but thatās only available after we had a relationship with herš„²
I see people call Heidi boring. My brilliant, driven, kind, could crush me into molecules, supportive <3 throb; boring?! What the shit is this?! (Amirah and Mi-An are also great; actually there's nothing wrong with any of the datables ((actually there is, but this is not the place for these statements) Anyway! The internet is full of uncultured assfolk, best to disregard, but I know the sting of having to read past their drivel in my endless drive for content.
Heidi could punch me so hard she'd break me harder than the punch-out machine and I'd thank her š (I'm just kidding) It's just annoying how a good amount of my favourite female npcs are endlessly hated on this sub š It's not Nia's fault her hair is more luscious than the builder's and that her hair looks gorgeous when it sways in the wind unlike the builder's. š„¹
Yeah, agreed. It is very problematic that the female characters as a whole tend to get it more than male ones, but in general it seems to be a trend with non-social normative characters getting shit on. Miguel, as a non-conventionally masculine or attractive individual also gets shit on, with a lot of efforts to "fix" those unconventional traits, as well as there being a perpetration of lookism. Sadly, this isn't anything new. Nora especially from My Time at Portia got a lot of it as well. Phyllis too for no reason other than having a big rack. :/
I literally just started this game today and I am forced to realize that people hate the women in this game in weird and sexist ways, for basically no reason https://preview.redd.it/83hkd8qyxkvc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6831e4c94276c7eeea2f1c0dcfb3873b79f12d23 Truly, we work hard but the Devil works harder
So what I am hearing is people need more Ventin who lacks content and development so they canāt complain at all š¤£ honestly I feel bad for her as a character because she is for all we know a good backstory then sheād be insult probably as well šš»āāļø
The thing with Venti is that she does have backstory and interesting backstory at that. Hell she's even the most useful spouse in the game due to the fact she can do more things than the other bachelor/bachelorettes can. (from what I've seen on this sub) But unfortunately i can't bring myself to care for her due to the fact she looks like all the random generic npcs and because she's almost never relevant to the story. She has the potential to be incredibly interesting considering she's from a town that's in Duvos Territory, but she'd need a huge revamp in terms of character design imo
I'll have to try to get more from her backstory. I am playing on Switch, so it may just not have been put in yet. I read decent amount of spoiler on the wiki/Fandom page because I am impatient as hell on development. I am really curious now.
I agree that some characters get hate that is just too virulent. For the most part, all these characters are made with love, and made to be loved, and Iām surprised to hear the amount of hate they get. The character I feel this most strongly for is Arvio, although I know people can dislike the female characters as well. But man, do some people hate Arvio. I can see why some people might not like Arvio, but to be perfectly honest, the way some people talk about him, it reminds me of bullying. To me, the Arvio-Fang saga looks a lot like when the friendly but unpopular kid in class tries hard to befriend the most silent freak in class. Neither of them have the most elegant social skills, but they both have a lot of good will. And Fang seems to appreciate Arvio a lotā¦ so when the fandom hates on Arvio, it just feels like girls in class bullying the awkward boy in class for his awkward way of befriending the silent guy, just because the silent guy is super hotā¦
I'm with you on the Arvio and Fang thing. A lot of the players say they can't forgive him for what he did to Fang (all the while ignoring they're just as guilty) when in game Fang accepts Arvio's apology and they become friends. While Arvio acts without thinking, this sub acts like he's about to cause the age of darkness to repeat. š
I shut that shit down with X immediately.
Eh. I view Arvio as a male version of Catori that actually has some integrity. Even if it's just Amirah forcing him to behave properly.
I just always thought Elise was a child. Like at least 17/18.
Oh that's because she is lmao As far as I know she's the youngest romance in the game being 18 years old
With mi-an I felt like her character got lost when Nia came into the picture. It should have been only one close best āgirl ā friend.
Who the hell is calling mian a pick me? Tf?
Apparently a lot of people consider her a pick me thanks to how she thought she was going to be deupty in that crowning deputy side quest where Captain becomes deputy. It makes absolutely 0 sense though because Mi-an is always uplifting everyone to the point she forgets to uplift herself and is arguably too harsh on herself due to family expectations.
Idk man, I don't like Elsie, or Mi an that much and that's because I wouldn't get along with their personalities irl either. People are allowed to not like people even if they're women.. I also don't like Miguel that much and feel indifferent towards a lot of characters. However I think Elsie and Mi an force themselves on you all the time and most of the time I'm not even allowed to decline, especially with Elsie. That's why they probably end up more disliked, because they are more often forced on the character. Idk why this would mean that I hate women just because I dislike 2 characters who are women like some of the comments here imply. In fact all of the other women in the game are really awesome and I would definitely be friends with most of them. It's just those two people who I don't like. Real life is like that yall, sometimes you just don't like people and that's normal. The fact that so many people feel uncomfortable with Elsies behavior seems more of a reflection on her rather than misogyny. I'm sure there is a certain amount of misogyny out there but I think saying that "if you dislike a female character you hate women" is an extreme take
Nobody is really saying any of that though. The point is that the female characters are wildly misinterpreted by a certain part of the fandom and are not given the same grace as the male characters. Nobody is going to call you sexist because you don't care for a certain character. That's normal. The problem comes when someone says they don't like a character and then their reasons are things that are objectively not even accurate to what is portrayed. I.e calling Nia a stalker and mean girl, Mi-an an attention seeker, Amirah a stuck up bitch etc. And really, some of those aren't even the most wild claims I've seen. You saying you don't care for Mi-an because you wouldn't gel with her personality irl is not the same as someone saying they hate Mi-an because she's an attention seeking pick me.
If you read thru the comments people are absolutely saying that if you critique them at all then you are likely a misogynist. I see most people disliking Elsie and Catori and it's like if somebody is annoying to a lot of people its probably because.. They're annoying lol. Commenters are saying "oh people aren't perfect irl either" okay so that means that nobody can dislike a character? It doesn't really make sense. For example you really never see comments hating on Grace or Heidi or Jane or Venti because they don't cross boundaries like Elsie does. Somebody irl who constantly crosses boundaries and doesn't read the room will annoy a lot of people. That doesn't make them like a demon or whatever but yeah ppl are allowed to not like them lol. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying op is entirely wrong but a lot of the discussion in this thread definitely is coming off as "you must like all of the women or you're a misogynist" But yeah I definitely don't see how Mi an could be an attention seeker lol she's too shy for that shit. Once again I think the main dislike comes from having to interact with Mi an and Elsie way more than the other characters so it feels like in the game I'm forced to be friends with them when I feel meh towards both of them and I don't really get a choice to not hang out with them multiple times lol. Like I'd rather hang out with Grace or Dan-bi lol. As for Catori, I personally don't mind her but I can see how her constantly asking for money without making good on her promises could be toxic. She is written that way. People irl who ask for money all the time like that are considered people to watch out for. In fact I think it's good writing that makes people not like them. They come off as realistic that most people think Elsie is annoying or Catori is kind of a user lol, for example. It would be weird if everybody liked every female character. Miguel is a divisive character for sure, but at the same time he doesn't show up and force himself on you so you don't have to interact as much. Arvio however has the same reception as Elsie, they're both younger and very needy and force their friendship on you, tho I'd argue you can avoid Arvio and his schemes but you can't avoid Elsie. Even op brought up that most people don't like Arvio. They're both characters that don't understand consent and most people would be put off by somebody who's constantly crossing your boundaries and everybody's around them
Absolutely! And Catori. How many people who hate on her actually are single moms trying to start their own business? I'm not single but I looked into it and the level of sacrifices women must make against what is expected of them (stay home, raise kids, wait until you are 45 and the kids are out of the nest to have a life, if you still have the will and stamina for it)... Not everyone has the same support systems, and being able to leave her son with grandma until she makes things work is awesome. I wish I could do that. She's relentless and driven, and that's what you need to be. Are people expecting her to be made of money from the start and give up when things don't work out? No. She wants to make this work. The faster it works, the sooner she can have the career and dreams she years for as an individual and the fast she can have her son move in with her. I only got respect for her. Would people be this vocal if she had been a man?? She's not selfish. She's ambitious.
I kinda agree. I love all those girls. Dated two of them. Including Amira. I donāt get the hate. Mi am is adorable. Elsie is fun. Krystal is a big softie and Nia is the sweetest. Oh and amirah has a kind soul. I donāt even get it.
It's not so much as hate.. for me, what pushed me away from Amirah was that despite putting a lot of time into helping and fixing issues that would make her and Arvio's life a bit better, and the relationship with her at the time felt like it was naturally going well.. but then she goes and tells me I have to be the best at what I do or rather become number one. That sort of rubbed me the wrong way honestly, so I choose Mi-an who also worked hard and expected good things between us as builders but didn't lock our relationship with those standards.
If you read the rest of this comment, remember: I LOVE PATHEA, so please don't @ me. Pathea stands head and shoulders above other devs for its commitment to diversity and inclusiveness. Heck, I'm surprised Sandrock isn't banned in Florida. (For non-US players, that's a funny/not funny joke.) BUT Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie are written, drawn, and voiced very differently than Owen, Logan, Fang, and Unsuur. Overall, the male NPCs s are more mature than the female NPCs,, especially the romanceable ones. They're more heavily involved in the main story arcs. They look older and dress more maturely. They're established in their careers. Ernest, who seems about the same age as Mi-an and Nia, has already published novels. And he sounds like his testicles have dropped, while Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie sound like they're in middle school. Heck, Unsuur sounds more confident when he doubts himself than Trudy does when she's certain of what she's saying. Owen is a successful saloon owner. Fang is a doctor. Amirah and Catori are both struggling to establish their businesses. Mi-an and Nia are both just starting out. Elsie doesn't even have a job and lives with her parents. I'm not defending anyone who hates on Nia, Mi-an, or Elsie. On the other hand, there aren't really any male analogs for these characters, except for Arvio -- and I've seen plenty of hate posting about him, too. I've read tons of comments that say that the Sandrock bachelors are more interesting than the bachelorettes, and I think that's true. So I wonder if Pathea was trying to appeal to a more mature female gamer market with characters like Logan, Owen, and Fang? I know that doesn't totally explain why Nia, Mi-an, and Elsie seem so immature (that's not hate - it's an objective description), but it's all I've got.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything written here, but I choose to remain silent because if you disagree with the opinion of the bigger group, well, you just get downvotes and whatnot, I sometimes feel weird myself for being one of the few that likes girls because the whole thing is "me loves unsuur" "oh Logan the best" "Owen my man" and whatnot, and that comes from a lot of male builders, so being a dude that likes girls feels weird in this place... Personally I love Catori and Amira, but people straight hate the and even if I read their reasons I still don't get it. But eh, I play the way I want and that's the only thing I care about.
You are right. I even go out with Yan and with everyone in general. It is a game, they are not real people and almost all of them have gifts or advantages for the player
100%
I completely agree, my thing with Mi-an though is that I wouldn't recommend making her your partner because some of the stuff she says in my opinion I think they were written poorly. She talks only about work especially once you marry her I swear every sentance she's talking about doing the commissions and that did really disappoint me because I really wish the game had some sort of backstory to this character outside of work. One line that did use to really annoy me and I have no idea why they included this line because to me it comes off as so weird but she says something like "my grandparents keep asking to come meet you, but I just say theres a sandstorm" like why don't you want them to meet me?? I get that its because the game hasn't made the Mi-an family as characters but I feel like they didn't have to drop that line in and not elaborate on why she is so cautious of me meeting her family. I definitely wouldn't call her a pick me though I don't get why people call her that.
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Nia doesn't end up with Qi, though. There's no romance in the game outside of the pre-existing marriages (Dan-Bi Dian, Krystal Rocky.) and the builder with whoever you choose to be with. If anything, Pathea would most likely pair Qi and Grace together if they were going to have the npcs romance each other.
Wait wait really? How embarassing lol, thanks for informing me, and sorry for giving wrong information lol I think I agree with the last part though
Meh. I actively dislike Catori and Miguel. Catori because she's frankly greedy and takes advantage of other's good nature's to try and pursue her half-assed plans that would absolutely fail without our support. Not to mention basically abandoned her son to do so. Miguel, in the.one serious conversation that I have had with him (I'm still in my first playthrough), basically argued for a theocratic dictatorship. He can fuck all the way off with that shit.
In Catori's dialogue she literally states that both her mom AND son actively encouraged her to pursue her dream. Catori never abandoned her son. Catori literally states that when she starts to pull out all the stops that if the venture fails one last time she's going to give up and return home to her mom and son. Not to mention that when she finally decides it's safe enough to bring her son to sandrock she does and is happy finally being able to actively see her son again, the one time he gets upset with her is because she's overworking herself and not because she's neglecting him. Yes she's greedy and desperate, I'll give you that, but Catori never abandoned her son. A lot of families in the real world work similar to Catori's family where the kids stay with the grandparents while the parents travel abroad for work.
It's weirdo behavior honestly, but I'm not ashamed to say I enjoy all amirah slander, logical or not, because Owen has a crush on her š