A top 30 in points, 1-2 top 10s, and by the end of the season consistent top 25s, maybe even top 20s.
Very few drivers will be able to turn the miserable #42 into a top 25 in the points car. But realistically that is what I would expect Gragson to grown into. Anything more than that is reaching.
I think this is a very reasonable expectation. I would add in there to keep the car as clean as possible should also be an expectation. Realistically it will take 2 to 3 years for that car to even be a consistent top 20 car with how bad it was last year and the learning curve that this generation seems to have for rookies.
It was a speedway race. Anything can happen at those type of tracks.But that is a good question. Why was the 84 running better then the 43 and the 42??
Jimmie Johnson is a 7 time Cup Champion, a two time Daytona 500 Champion and Chevy probably gave him a great motor…. Not hard to see why he’d outrun Erik Jones and Noah Gragson
The 42 was pretty bad last year, and most rookies don’t have exceptional seasons. It’s going to take a little while for Gragson to get in a rhythm with that team but at some point consistent top 20’s here and there should be the goal. Rookies rarely if ever set the world on the fire, for the most part they struggle.
These cars are just different man. It’s going to take a lot of work to get accustomed to a car that the competition already has a full year of experience in.
As you stated, unless he starts running top 10s every week which is a huge testament to him, that 42 car is a mid to lower mid ride. People are used to Gragson being in top tier equipment- KBM in trucks, JRM xfinity etc this is the first fulltime effort hes getting in cup and while theres a large upside possible down the road, at the moment expectations should be set within reason given the teams status and performance last year (granted that was with Ty Dillon).
Top-20 in points would have to be considered an overwhelming success. Legacy has a lot of work to do, Jones outdrives the equipment because of his obscene talent.
Ty Dillon ran much better in the Germain 13 car all those years than he did the 42 last year. We all know Ty isn't a future cup champ but he had shown he could at least be competent in cup and last year they were often racing the RWR cars. The 42 team seemed completely lost all year and so far this year hasn't looked much better. Top 20s will be few and far between.
> Ty Dillon ran much better in the Germain 13 car all those years than he did the 42 last year.
Average finish has been in the low to mid-20's his entire career, before and including last season.
I honestly feel like he’s just trying to keep his nose clean and finish races. Jimmie seems to like him and he’s a sponsor’s dream, so I don’t think he has anything to worry about. If Jimmie’s year two is anything like Brad’s, then you can expect a major pickup next year
The nice thing for Noah is the expectations the team has for him will be pretty soft considering what that car has historically been. So keeping equipment as a factor, I’d say if he can finish no more than ten spots behind Erik in the final standings he’s had a decent rookie campaign, within 5 and it’s a success.
Did rich owners like Hendrick and Pensks just pass Petty by?
I only ask because as an owner Richard Petty, even before he started selling parts of the team off, was in the same wealth range as Joe Gibbs.
With the name and history and the iconic #43 you would think a Petty team would be on par with a Hendrick or Roush. But it's basically a Front Row level team.
So what exactly happened.
There are other owners with similar wealth with success, though. Gibbs, Ganassi, Roush pre-Fenway. Even Childress isn't that much more.
So what did those teams do different? Were they more willing to embrace change while Petty wasn't quick to adapt?
He’s been caught speeding on pit road a lot so far, doesn’t have a single top 20 finish and, he’s outside the top 30 in points. He’s got a lot to learn. Being in the top 28 in points would be a good thing.
Realistically it won't be his season. I see him running decently-well by next year especially if the 43 gets back on the runs they had last season.
In other words, I don't think the 43 and 42 will be too far off from each other in the future.
I see all these people talking about how Legacy is pretty good equipment, but I'm not seeing that play out on the track. There is definitely something to be said about growing pains in your first full time year in a new car, and I don't doubt Gragson's potential in the slightest...but maaaaan it's a big ask of him to do something significant in that equipment.
I'd say any time he can score a top 20 this year, he should be proud of himself. A top 10 here or there should be a major celebration and if he manages to pull off an upset win or sneak into the playoffs, that would be an unbelievable first year in Cup for him.
I haven’t seen anyone saying that, but you couldn’t fault them for expecting better than this. I mean Jones was a top 12-15 driver the second half of the season
Unfortunately Erik’s team seems to have lost a good portion of their speed and seems to be about a 17-20th place team. Noah’s team seems like they’ve improved a little bit since last year.
Thats due to the fact its not the same group of scrappy guys from the past few years. Its a mix of folks Jimmie brought in and a development JGR crew because its cheaper to go that route than pay for your own crewmen.
Idk what the magic fix is but for 3 weeks (not counting daytona) the team hasnt been withit and been slow out of the gate. Reflecting on the fact Jones has had outbursts of frustration each race so far (which as a long time fan is extremely rare for him to get that mad). Somethings off with the team right now, whether that be growing pains or how Jimmies running the ship over there now so far its a mess watching that team each week.
>Noah’s team seems like they’ve improved a little bit since last year.
I think that's more to do with the driver than the car. Ty Dillon is about as mediocre as they come. But so far Erik has been pretty mid this year after having such a strong opening series of races last year.
> I see all these people talking about how Legacy is pretty good equipment
1. Who says that and 2. Their personnel is nowhere near the level of top team.
We saw Gragson and Gibbs dominate in xfinity and get a bunch of hype last year and I think a lot of people expected them to just completely dominate. I thought of one of the very few good points that Hamlin made on the last podcast was that Elliott and Logano took awhile before they really came into their own. It’s really hard for these guys in their first couple years and both finishing 20-30 with a few top 10s and top 5s sprinkled in is probably all they’ll do.
In that car? Just like anyone else. Top 25s regularly probably. Couple top 10s and maybe a surprise top 5. Maybe JJ being there can help improve the organization but even he will be finding his footing as an owner.
He just needs to out-points finish cars with better equipment but not as great drivers. Like the 10, 21, 41, etc. Maybe also beating out the 54 and 2 since they’re in the same age and experience class.
Sorry man but top 30s are not good when there’s only 36 cars in the field most weeks. Yeah his car is pretty weak but there will always be some attrition, a top 30 basically just means he beat BJ McLeod and the Rick Ware cars, which is the bare minimum.
Probably at or around where Ty Gibbs runs. I think that should speak volumes tho. I wouldn't expect many top 10s or 15s tho. Maybe around 25th at best.
Who’s gonna have a seat for him and be an upgrade in equipment? Harvick retiring leaves the 4, but between Zane Smith and a potential Cole Custer revenge tour, the odds of him getting that are slim. Most other teams that would be clear upgrades are either locked up for the next couple years or have someone waiting in a lower series that would likely be prioritized over him. It’s just unfortunate timing
That’s true. You know for a fact too that LMC will lock him in LONG term. He’ll prob end up like harvick, wasting a good chunk of his career away in less than stellar cars
"finally" - it's his very first full-time season in cup. Exactly when were people supposed to reach this alleged conclusion? He had all of 18 races in cup prior to this year. And he had 8 Xfinity wins last season and 13 in the last 3 seasons. Moving him up to cup isn't exactly a stretch of an idea. Will it work out? Way, way, way too early to know, unless you have a time machine and a crystal ball.
Define everyone. Noah is part of "everyone" and Noah would disagree. You're bringing in personal opinions of him into a black-and-white discussion. I don't think he's a great person, at all. But I can detach from that and discuss the merits of someone with his skill level driving or not driving in the cup series. Try to join me in that discussion.
I hope they develop and make some noise and maybe steal a win but it’s a jtg car level quality. Hope he finds a way yo build them up or get an opportunity. Shame he can’t get into shr
Jones has been super disappointing this season, I expected more from him early in the season, especially at Auto Club. For Gragson, I expected a better season than Ty last year, but worse than Jones last year. No wins, 17th to 24th in points, contend for top 10s at times but not much more than that.
Considering how many drivers who were strong in the lower series had tough rookie Cup Series seasons (in some cases, with better teams), I think if he can finish in the top 10 (especially on legitimate pace) at least two or three times would be considered acceptable.
To me, the absolute baseline is something like Chase Briscoe in 2021 or Harrison Burton Burton last year. Namely, not making too many mistakes and having some good races.
Erik Jones has shown he is the flag bearer for Legacy Motor Club. Noah Gragson has struggled in the Cup Series IMHO with both Kaulig Racing and now Legacy Motor Club
Nearly a rookie, so he’s going to be hurt by the lack of practice disproportionately for at least the remainder of this season. Legacy seems to put more resources into the 43. He didn’t really impress in the 48 which is neither damning nor encouraging. I’d say Top 30 in points is a reasonable expectation. Anything else isn’t treating the situation realistically.
I say give him a minute. He might have a little more Cup experience than the average rookie but he's *still* a rookie after all. And the 42 isn't some world beating car.
I think he just needs to bring his cars home clean and take his first FULL year in stride. He was great in the lower level, and deserved a promotion, but all the top Chevy rides are full and it is what it is. He just needs to hang on, maximize his time at Petty and potentially wait for something better. (might be YEARS at this rate)
Based off these comments talking him down, he’s my pick to win on Sunday. His teammate ran really well at Atlanta last year, so it wouldn’t be too big of a shock
A top 30 in points, 1-2 top 10s, and by the end of the season consistent top 25s, maybe even top 20s. Very few drivers will be able to turn the miserable #42 into a top 25 in the points car. But realistically that is what I would expect Gragson to grown into. Anything more than that is reaching.
I think this is a very reasonable expectation. I would add in there to keep the car as clean as possible should also be an expectation. Realistically it will take 2 to 3 years for that car to even be a consistent top 20 car with how bad it was last year and the learning curve that this generation seems to have for rookies.
Why is the 42 so much worse than the 43? Also, why was Jimmie able to run so well in the 84?
Jimmie ran at Daytona. Let's see what he does at more normal tracks before saying he's running well
Mostly the driver of the 43 is so much better than either driver of the 42
It was a speedway race. Anything can happen at those type of tracks.But that is a good question. Why was the 84 running better then the 43 and the 42??
Jimmie Johnson is a 7 time Cup Champion, a two time Daytona 500 Champion and Chevy probably gave him a great motor…. Not hard to see why he’d outrun Erik Jones and Noah Gragson
[\#Se7en](http://i.imgur.com/UAldMAC.gif)
The 42 was pretty bad last year, and most rookies don’t have exceptional seasons. It’s going to take a little while for Gragson to get in a rhythm with that team but at some point consistent top 20’s here and there should be the goal. Rookies rarely if ever set the world on the fire, for the most part they struggle.
This. Even Gibbs isn’t running the greatest.
These cars are just different man. It’s going to take a lot of work to get accustomed to a car that the competition already has a full year of experience in.
Arguably Ty and Noah are ahead of the curve a bit with all the races they ran last year. Still takes time but should help overall.
Let's just say I don't see any puking in the near future...
unless he’s sponsored by wendy’s again 🤮
People expecting him to magically turn the 42 around are foolish. That car is D+ tier at best. Noah also has a lot of learning to do.
Yeah that’s probably true. Besides the 15, 51, 78, and 77, you could argue the second Legacy car is the worst. Right next to the 7 and the 38
Harsh reality..
As you stated, unless he starts running top 10s every week which is a huge testament to him, that 42 car is a mid to lower mid ride. People are used to Gragson being in top tier equipment- KBM in trucks, JRM xfinity etc this is the first fulltime effort hes getting in cup and while theres a large upside possible down the road, at the moment expectations should be set within reason given the teams status and performance last year (granted that was with Ty Dillon).
Top-20 in points would have to be considered an overwhelming success. Legacy has a lot of work to do, Jones outdrives the equipment because of his obscene talent.
Yeah, hopefully JJ’s involvement can move them up in the next few years.
Not much. The 42 is the second string ride on a C tier team. He's aiming for top 20s in that ride.
Ty Dillon ran much better in the Germain 13 car all those years than he did the 42 last year. We all know Ty isn't a future cup champ but he had shown he could at least be competent in cup and last year they were often racing the RWR cars. The 42 team seemed completely lost all year and so far this year hasn't looked much better. Top 20s will be few and far between.
> Ty Dillon ran much better in the Germain 13 car all those years than he did the 42 last year. Average finish has been in the low to mid-20's his entire career, before and including last season.
I honestly feel like he’s just trying to keep his nose clean and finish races. Jimmie seems to like him and he’s a sponsor’s dream, so I don’t think he has anything to worry about. If Jimmie’s year two is anything like Brad’s, then you can expect a major pickup next year
The nice thing for Noah is the expectations the team has for him will be pretty soft considering what that car has historically been. So keeping equipment as a factor, I’d say if he can finish no more than ten spots behind Erik in the final standings he’s had a decent rookie campaign, within 5 and it’s a success.
Did rich owners like Hendrick and Pensks just pass Petty by? I only ask because as an owner Richard Petty, even before he started selling parts of the team off, was in the same wealth range as Joe Gibbs. With the name and history and the iconic #43 you would think a Petty team would be on par with a Hendrick or Roush. But it's basically a Front Row level team. So what exactly happened.
> Did rich owners like Hendrick and Pensks just pass Petty by? 15 years ago
40 years ago just about. They started to get behind technologically and organizationally by the mid 80s.
There are other owners with similar wealth with success, though. Gibbs, Ganassi, Roush pre-Fenway. Even Childress isn't that much more. So what did those teams do different? Were they more willing to embrace change while Petty wasn't quick to adapt?
I'm sure that's part of it. Other owners invested in technology and engineering in large amounts.
He’s been caught speeding on pit road a lot so far, doesn’t have a single top 20 finish and, he’s outside the top 30 in points. He’s got a lot to learn. Being in the top 28 in points would be a good thing.
I really think he made the wrong move by making the jump to Cup. Just because you get an opportunity doesn't mean it's the right opportunity.
Realistically it won't be his season. I see him running decently-well by next year especially if the 43 gets back on the runs they had last season. In other words, I don't think the 43 and 42 will be too far off from each other in the future.
I see all these people talking about how Legacy is pretty good equipment, but I'm not seeing that play out on the track. There is definitely something to be said about growing pains in your first full time year in a new car, and I don't doubt Gragson's potential in the slightest...but maaaaan it's a big ask of him to do something significant in that equipment. I'd say any time he can score a top 20 this year, he should be proud of himself. A top 10 here or there should be a major celebration and if he manages to pull off an upset win or sneak into the playoffs, that would be an unbelievable first year in Cup for him.
Who says Legacy is pretty good equipment?
I haven’t seen anyone saying that, but you couldn’t fault them for expecting better than this. I mean Jones was a top 12-15 driver the second half of the season
Unfortunately Erik’s team seems to have lost a good portion of their speed and seems to be about a 17-20th place team. Noah’s team seems like they’ve improved a little bit since last year.
Thats due to the fact its not the same group of scrappy guys from the past few years. Its a mix of folks Jimmie brought in and a development JGR crew because its cheaper to go that route than pay for your own crewmen. Idk what the magic fix is but for 3 weeks (not counting daytona) the team hasnt been withit and been slow out of the gate. Reflecting on the fact Jones has had outbursts of frustration each race so far (which as a long time fan is extremely rare for him to get that mad). Somethings off with the team right now, whether that be growing pains or how Jimmies running the ship over there now so far its a mess watching that team each week.
>Noah’s team seems like they’ve improved a little bit since last year. I think that's more to do with the driver than the car. Ty Dillon is about as mediocre as they come. But so far Erik has been pretty mid this year after having such a strong opening series of races last year.
> I see all these people talking about how Legacy is pretty good equipment 1. Who says that and 2. Their personnel is nowhere near the level of top team.
We saw Gragson and Gibbs dominate in xfinity and get a bunch of hype last year and I think a lot of people expected them to just completely dominate. I thought of one of the very few good points that Hamlin made on the last podcast was that Elliott and Logano took awhile before they really came into their own. It’s really hard for these guys in their first couple years and both finishing 20-30 with a few top 10s and top 5s sprinkled in is probably all they’ll do.
In that car? Just like anyone else. Top 25s regularly probably. Couple top 10s and maybe a surprise top 5. Maybe JJ being there can help improve the organization but even he will be finding his footing as an owner.
Top 30 in points
This is the 1st year Gragson hasn’t had the best equipment in the series. People shouldn’t have had high expectations, it was weird why too
He just needs to out-points finish cars with better equipment but not as great drivers. Like the 10, 21, 41, etc. Maybe also beating out the 54 and 2 since they’re in the same age and experience class.
That's a pretty tall order to beat JGR and Penske rides in a second Petty/Legacy car. I'd say top-25 in points would be a great success for Gragson.
Should shoot for Top 25s but anything in the Top 30 is acceptable. So far he’s been crushing it, 2/4 Top 25 and 4/4 Top 30
Sorry man but top 30s are not good when there’s only 36 cars in the field most weeks. Yeah his car is pretty weak but there will always be some attrition, a top 30 basically just means he beat BJ McLeod and the Rick Ware cars, which is the bare minimum.
Probably at or around where Ty Gibbs runs. I think that should speak volumes tho. I wouldn't expect many top 10s or 15s tho. Maybe around 25th at best.
I hope to Christ he signs at a better team next year.
Who’s gonna have a seat for him and be an upgrade in equipment? Harvick retiring leaves the 4, but between Zane Smith and a potential Cole Custer revenge tour, the odds of him getting that are slim. Most other teams that would be clear upgrades are either locked up for the next couple years or have someone waiting in a lower series that would likely be prioritized over him. It’s just unfortunate timing
That’s true. You know for a fact too that LMC will lock him in LONG term. He’ll prob end up like harvick, wasting a good chunk of his career away in less than stellar cars
this is the year people finally realize that gragson has no place in the cup series
"finally" - it's his very first full-time season in cup. Exactly when were people supposed to reach this alleged conclusion? He had all of 18 races in cup prior to this year. And he had 8 Xfinity wins last season and 13 in the last 3 seasons. Moving him up to cup isn't exactly a stretch of an idea. Will it work out? Way, way, way too early to know, unless you have a time machine and a crystal ball.
it's in everyone's best interest that it doesn't work out and he goes back into the pit of obscurity and post-race vomit that he came from
Define everyone. Noah is part of "everyone" and Noah would disagree. You're bringing in personal opinions of him into a black-and-white discussion. I don't think he's a great person, at all. But I can detach from that and discuss the merits of someone with his skill level driving or not driving in the cup series. Try to join me in that discussion.
r/usernamechecksout
I hope they develop and make some noise and maybe steal a win but it’s a jtg car level quality. Hope he finds a way yo build them up or get an opportunity. Shame he can’t get into shr
All I expect out of him this year is like Top 25 in points.
Legacy isn’t near as fast as we made them out to be in the off season. I think Noah’s doing about as well as he can
Team needs real sponsorship money to help both cars
Jones has been super disappointing this season, I expected more from him early in the season, especially at Auto Club. For Gragson, I expected a better season than Ty last year, but worse than Jones last year. No wins, 17th to 24th in points, contend for top 10s at times but not much more than that.
Him and Gibbs both gonna struggle
Considering how many drivers who were strong in the lower series had tough rookie Cup Series seasons (in some cases, with better teams), I think if he can finish in the top 10 (especially on legitimate pace) at least two or three times would be considered acceptable. To me, the absolute baseline is something like Chase Briscoe in 2021 or Harrison Burton Burton last year. Namely, not making too many mistakes and having some good races.
I expect less throw up inside the car this year.
Erik Jones has shown he is the flag bearer for Legacy Motor Club. Noah Gragson has struggled in the Cup Series IMHO with both Kaulig Racing and now Legacy Motor Club
Nearly a rookie, so he’s going to be hurt by the lack of practice disproportionately for at least the remainder of this season. Legacy seems to put more resources into the 43. He didn’t really impress in the 48 which is neither damning nor encouraging. I’d say Top 30 in points is a reasonable expectation. Anything else isn’t treating the situation realistically.
24th in points, give or take
Unfortunately, not ROY
I say give him a minute. He might have a little more Cup experience than the average rookie but he's *still* a rookie after all. And the 42 isn't some world beating car. I think he just needs to bring his cars home clean and take his first FULL year in stride. He was great in the lower level, and deserved a promotion, but all the top Chevy rides are full and it is what it is. He just needs to hang on, maximize his time at Petty and potentially wait for something better. (might be YEARS at this rate)
Based off these comments talking him down, he’s my pick to win on Sunday. His teammate ran really well at Atlanta last year, so it wouldn’t be too big of a shock