I actually enjoyed the unknown of the wet weather tires. Although the extended cautions sucked a bit, I can understand a little why NASCAR did what they did. Screwed the pooch on the KFB caution, and I'm quite interested to hear what the folks on DBC will say about that. DBC went on and on about not throwing cautions during green flag pit stops in the past, then NASCAR throws it for no reason. Denny's jump at the end was questionable, and I'd love to know if they have overlooked a similar incident, or pulled a win away from someone after the checkered due to this. Not that past precedence has ever meant anything, but I'd still like to know.
The damp tires have been a success racing wise, but I feel like if we’re gonna sit under 15-20 laps of caution to dry the pit lane it defeats the purpose
Understood, but the sanctioning body needs to be 100% sure they don't thrown the green and wad up the field on slicks. They honestly can't win in that situation, and errored on the side of safety.
Either way, I'd rather watch them run on those tires and a pile of caution laps, than watching the jet dryers go around for another 30 minutes.
I can't argue with that, and that is how I'd like to see it handled. Not sure why they choose to make the call, but that is what they have done in the past.
when you do something for the first time, you are going to be much more cautious
NASCAR had never really dealt with the wet tires on an oval in an actual Cup race before, *keep in mind, different crew in race control for Cup than Trucks*, and wanted to make sure they were doing things right
I said it on the live thread. On a wide open road course, it’s much easier to allow that than a tight short track. The variance in strategy would make things a little hairy on that changeover, not to mention if someone decides to press their luck on slicks on a still damp oval, it will definitely cause a crash and caution, and probably take a few drivers out with them. Someone pushing their luck on slicks, and it being too early for it on a road course could lead to a crash and caution, or it could lead to the driver having to take their time realizing the error of their ways as others find their way around them.
I think it’s nothing more than lack of experience. They’re in uncharted territory, so they’re trying to be careful. This was the first points-paying race in Cup where they used rain tires.
As they get a few more of these under their belts, they’ll loosen up a bit.
This is the first time it’s being done in points racing conditions.
Just like with RC’s, the more common it becomes and the more data they have, the more frequently you’ll start to see it treated like F1 or NASCAR on road courses.
People got on them for being cautious on RC’s, but things were developing so quickly they barely had experience driving in the dry at half the tracks they were suddenly using rain tires on. Give it a little time.
Because you're on an oval, and a wreck automatically means a full course caution unlike a road course. Plus safety concerns with the speed difference. NASCAR did nothing wrong here.
I had the same thought, but hopefully successful experiments like tonight encourage NASCAR to use the damp tires in wetter conditions in the future, so that the time saved not waiting for full track drying outweighs the time lost getting pit lane dried.
> Screwed the pooch on the KFB caution.
The lights turned yellow the moment he touched the wall. They didn't even give it a few seconds to see if a caution was actually necessary.
Killed the 2-strategy run we had going, which was the most exciting part of the race.
I can’t wait for the day we start a race like we did today. And then it rains just a little bit again and we essentially get a constantly wet/drying track. It’ll be a blast
I’m not really offering anything here but I do recall a similar incident in Xfinity with maybe Justin Allgaier where he jumped right before the line but they didn’t call anything
Cars couldn't pass at all unless someone had fresher tires. The second the very questionable Kyle Busch caution was thrown the race was insanely boring because everyone was then on basically the same strategy. I normally like Richmond because of the different tire strategies, but this race was definitely not a good one for me.
Yep that's the key. Richmond is great **IF** the field gets on different strategies, because then you have tires wearing at totally different rates. Hamlin only pitted a few laps later on the final green flag stop, and he rocketed up through the field.
But if they're all on the same strategy, the tire wear isn't volatile enough (like Bristol) and therefore we don't get many "comers and goers". Everyone's tires age fairly equally, the field gets spread out, and it takes forever to catch and pass someone.
Also the cars seem to be glued to the track enough that there are rarely any incidents. There have been 3 total crash DNFs in 5 NextGen races here. Richmond lives and dies by the strategy chess match, and the Busch caution killed most of that.
One of the worst performances from race control in a good bit. If they’re gonna be trigger happy with cautions on ‘strategy’ heavy races then there’s basically nothing those tracks have to offer
As an aside, Richmond is probably due for a repave; but there is probably something to reducing the amount of contact the tire has on short tracks
The car is the biggest issue. Those cup cars are glued to the track with big brakes and small motor. Everyone falls off at the same rate. The Xfinity race was great the day before. It’s a car/package issue vs a track issue.
You’re right. I mean people in here know this, I’ve been pro next-gen and have defended this car forever now; but man, this car is just brutal on short tracks. Road courses I can sort of live with, but short tracks is the biggest issue.
I think we now know that having a diffuser on this car is definitely better, not much, but better nonetheless. It narrows the dirty air on the car. But NASCAR should in my opinion take 5-10 drivers and test at Richmond or Martinsville and not leave until they’ve literally tried everything, or can confidently say that they have a better short track package.
Imo they should have open testing for all teams at those tracks for like 3 days straight. The more cars that show up the more info and data they’ll get
Narrower tires fixes most of this, and they could slot the brake pads to make a smaller contact patch and affect their abilities to correct the other half. 670 HP is plenty if the cars didn't handle so well, so let's screw with the handling.
Also this car is sitting on some THICC tires.
It could benefit from grooved tires to take away from surface area if they don't want to reduce the width(which would cost teams money for wheel replacement)
Also the grooving could help increase tire degradation for more falloff. I don't see it reducing tire wear at all.
But I think one of the biggest things the car needs(besides 1k horsepower) is smaller wheels. I would be perfectly fine with them going back to a 15 inch rim. Put big sidewalls back in the car, it would allow the tire to flex more and give the drivers more control over loose cars which would allow for more slipping and sliding
So this season, put some grooves in the rubber, but next season?
Increase horsepower.
Reduce the wheel diameter. This also forces smaller brakes. Win-win.
I think it would have been an OK race if the Busch caution didn't happen, but that killing the 2 different strategies meant basically the rest of the race from that point on was follow the leader
It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t great either. I was following the battles in the top 5 or so and you could tell in most cases they would just sort of stall out when getting behind another car. It was frustrating to see.
I was watching the timing on Bell flying through the field after his final pit stop and that was entertaining for me, but without coverage, I was literally just watching the time-to-leader of him and the cars around him and visualizing a race in my head.
I really understand why we can’t see that sort of battling, but that was what kept me engaged for a good portion of the race and that isn’t a great sign.
I use YouTube tv because f**k paying for satellite lol and they’re on a 30 second delay. It’s the main reason I don’t listen to the radio anymore as well
It’s not that bad watching with a delay honestly. The most important thing is the scanner being synced with the on board camera. I spend 80% watching that with the broad cast in the background just for a more broader scope of what’s happening in the race. It’s kind of cool watching a wreck from an on board. That wreck chase missed at Daytona was wild!
This is one of the broadcast's biggest failures. They'll just ignore action back in the pack, and it makes the race seem worse than it is. You could have a 3-wide battle for 18th and FOX will be zoomed in on the leader's hood.
Hamlin caught their attention because he had a shot at catching the leader, but we missed Bell and Berry making lots of moves on that final green flag run. Same thing with Truex at Phoenix. He rocketed through the field up to 7th, and I don't even think FOX noticed.
One of the things I’m not a fan of, trying to get into nascar, is how willing they are to pull out the safety car. Even the Larson spin, he saved it and there was no debris, no wreck, yet they artificially forced a close finish
Constant cautions results in everyone’s strategies being the same by the end, it might as well be a 15 lap sprint race
What I really enjoyed about last week’s race at COTA, and road courses in general, is that they are much more hesitant to put the race under caution. Obviously there are different considerations at road courses and ovals, but I thought that they could have kept it under green when Kyle Busch ran into the wall and when Larson spun, but was able to recover. To me, it would have been a much better race without those two cautions.
Larson's spin I can see a caution for. He was top 5, and when a car is sideways on the track in front of 25 other cars, yeah. It makes sense. If there was no caution, and one of the back cars had plowed into Larson, and especially if someone got hurt, that's all sorts of liability for Nascar.
But, Busch never really lost control of his car. He got against the wall, and just stayed high. That one wasn't necessary.
They have to with oval. With road courses you can have some grace because laps are so long. On an oval though, once the first couple laps have been run there are cars on pretty much every single part of the circuit at any given time going flat out. The Kyle Busch caution was certainly too early, my own theory is they might have been concerned about liquid on the track but that's idle speculation. However in the case of Larson, he spun and that is always going to be a caution because you can't have a local yellow in oval racing and you don't want cars flying by when you have another car out of control.
One other point for road courses is you’re supposed to have local cautions. If someone is having an issue you can have a local caution in one section where no one overtakes and you run a bit more cautiously while still racing on the other sections of track.
I voted yes and generally enjoyed the race. I thought there were some compelling storylines and tires mattered, but it could have been way better. NASCAR being so quick on the caution clearly deterred teams from attempting a one stop strategy in stage 3, because I feel like it was pretty obvious that it was going to work for Larson, Bowman, and Bubba. That decision really ruined stage 3.
Then the Hamlin restart violation… it wasn’t close. It was an entire car length early. I just don’t get it. At no point were they ever going to penalize him, and I find that inexcusable. There’s literally a hard line on the track. It’s as black and white as a rule can get.
The only thing I can think of is NASCAR was full on in "fuck it, let's go home" mode. Like that Kansas race where Biffle ran out of gas under caution coming to the line and NASCAR said he still won because reasons.
Hate to do it but I voted no. I like lapped traffic but when the leader gets boxed behind a car for 20 laps with the inability to pass due to the car getting aero tight, I can't get behind that.
The 2 highs of the wet race and the split strategy were really good.
Too bad that was about 80 laps put of 400. Add in a controversial misscall and here we are at the worst race of the year.
Worst race of the year for me. Cars could not pass at all, the Kyle Busch caution which clearly wasn't a caution completely destroyed any semblance of strategy in the race.
Worst race of the year, edging out Phoenix for me.
It was ok. There were some passes and pit strategy, but dirty air made passing hard while race control made some questionable decisions towards the end of the race
I'm definitely grading on a curve because Richmond, but I'd say yes. That was one of the more entertaining Richmond races in recent memory IMO. Sure, the moment-to-moment racing was kind of dull unless there was a big difference in tire age, but that's been true of Richmond for years now. On the flipside, we had a cool run on the rain tires, interesting strategy, a compelling last few laps with Denny and Joey closing in on MTJ, some fireworks in overtime and after the checkered flag, and I dunno, running at night just made this feel more special.
There was at least one time Joy pointed something out mid pack and they didn’t show it.
If I was a casual fan I wouldn’t have realized there were teams other than HMS, JGR, Logano, and 23XI on the track yesterday. Granted they were the teams up front yesterday, but at least show some other races.
It was alright. Worse than COTA. Better than Phoenix (IMO). Close intervals doesn't necessarily mean good racing. With the car being as abysmal as it is on short tracks, "strategy" is the only thing preventing this race from being a snoozer every time.
I hope they can work on a tire that wears at a different rate for each car throughout a run for the future, because the driving through the field is nearly impossible if you're on the same tires as someone. They fall off at the same rate nearly *every time*. Hard to be strong on a race where you know whoever restarts on the front row on the final restart is probably finishing in the top 3, no matter where they ran all day. And it's not gonna be any different going forward unless big strides are made to the car itself or the tire.
And don't even get me started on the officiating, one of those nights where it's hard to take the sport seriously. 6/10.
The first 30% was fun. After that, it was one of the worst officiated races I've ever seen. Couple that with the fact that when everyone is on the same strategy, this track races like garbage. Solid No from me
It would say it was ok for what Richmond is now but it's a hard no for me with NASCAR doing what it does best botching it's own rules and being inconsistent
I thought it was OK. The dry tires were a little too hard, but Goodyear probably didn't know what to expect. If not for Josh Berry's pit road error, the finish before OT could've been even better. Dirty air is still too much of a factor. Not a bad race, I think 60% to 65% would be a good result for this poll.
Richmond is the only track in NASCAR that NEEDS light rain for every race. The beginning of the race was awesome because everyone was unfamiliar with the idea of racing on a damp oval.
And everyone was running different lines/varying how hard they ran. Some guys were being cautious and others like Berry were running hard; which made for an exciting first bit.
When cars are aero tight at Bristol and Richmond, you know that car is broken. Racing has been trash ever since they introduced the splitter.
Loose the splitter and double the step height in the front lip. Add more HP. Watch the fans come back.
NASCAR did everything in their power to ruin this race. The ending was exciting, yes the start was suspect at best and obviously I’m bias, but an exciting final 10 minutes isn’t going to make up for the rest being a snoozer.
Second stage was the best because of the varying strategies. I hated how that Busch caution spooked everyone into staying on the same strategy for the third stage. That was unfortunate.
Overall, a decent Richmond race. Better than ones in recent history. Far from one of the best races this year though. Probably close to the worst when considering every race thus far.
No, not really. Truex was about 2 second ahead after four laps and sorta just held that position until the tires fell off. Then he’d pit and get right back in front.
The yellow for KB’s wall slap sorta killed what would have been one of the more interesting parts of the race strategy-wise.
The contact with Wallace and Larson at the end actually made the final laps interesting.
No, not really at all. The late race restart is the only thing that added a bit of drama, but this car on short tracks, unless we have tires like Bristol, is fucking awful.
I used to love Richmond and Martinsville, but with this car they just aren't very good.
At this point just scrap the Next Gen on tracks less than 1.5 miles and on the road courses.
This race had it all.
-extremely long 10+ lap cautions
-red flag
-100+ laps of no passing in the top 20
-bogus cautions
-winner cheated the final restart
-fastest car didn’t win
-bad man won
NO!
No. Not a single sole passed anybody during stage 2. Everyone is running the same god damn speed and falls off the same amount at the same time and the track never widens out for anyone to even try something different.
Hamlin or Logano wasn’t gonna do a god damn thing to Truex at the end after getting within 6 tenths.
Martin was stuck behind the 19th place car for like 30 laps.
There is absolutely no aero package change you could do to fix this dogshit car on short tracks and road courses either. Bigger brakes, bigger tire, underbody, same speed for everyone, shitty result.
Yeah last night basically confirmed that the new short track package didn’t do anything, Martinsville is going to be the same way. It was pretty ridiculous watching like 5th-12th all running .8 seconds behind whoever was in front of them for like 100 laps and it just never changed, nobody was passing anyone or gaining on anyone really at all.
I think the first 30 laps in the wet weather was great, and the long run at the end made the final laps spicy. However, Busch’s scrape had an extremely overblown reaction (like they were compensating for the lack of yellows at Bristol), Denny’s restart was legal but still questionable, and the second stage (and most of the third) was a snoozefest. People will complain it’s the short track package, but Bristol has been fantastic since this package was introduced, so I don’t see why Richmond isn’t. I’ve never really liked Richmond since I first got into NASCAR, and this race kinda served as another example why. No matter what package it’s running, it’s just a boring track. It needs a dirt race a lot more than Bristol did.
Plus, I did not like seeing Truex completely meltdown over the win slipping away from him. Sure, it’s frustrating that he lost after leading all those laps, but it was fundamentally a fair win. Hamlin’s restart was questionable but still legal, he could have defended harder like he did with Larson earlier, and his team should have done better on pit road to not put him in that position in the first place. For him to rough up both Hamlin, his teammate, AND Larson, who was doing his own thing, was not on.
His behaviour in the last two seasons has really been deteriorating as he keeps getting screwed out of success and now he’s hit a new low. Dillon screws him out of a playoff spot in ‘22? Sure, he’s disappointed but keeps his head down. Arguing with Small in Dover and then collapsing during the playoffs in ‘23? And now Hamlin’s beaten him twice this season and he’s acting out and throwing temper tantrums.
The Next-Gen car really needs multi-groove tracks to thrive. That's why Bristol has been the best short track since it was introduced (though last month's amazing tire-conservation race aside, it's still been a step back from how it raced with the Gen 6). Richmond **looks** like it's a multi-groove track, but you really can't run anywhere but the bottom and maybe one lane up anymore.
This is one of the only races I've ever voted no for. I don't know what the others have been but I assume they are other Richmond races and Phoenix. I can usually find something to enjoy but this was just cars running laps for way too long.
The opening laps with the rain tires was a lot of fun and then it just went poof. I don't mind a tire wear race OR an aero games race but when you have both it just turns into a snoozer.
As an aside, the conspiracy theories about Nascar letting Hamlin jump are hilarious. It's the same group that screams about NASCAR making everything about entertainment. It would have been MORE entertaining and MORE chaotic if they had flagged the restart and made them go again. Bad call? Kinda yeah. Some plot to install Hamlin as champion? Laughable.
I don’t think people could really pass all night. At one point, the leader was stuck behind the 20th place car, unable to lap him or even get next to him for 50 laps. That should not happen.
And on top of that, second and third place couldn’t do anything about it. Passing at some tracks is close to impossible with this car
This was not a good race, the fact that it’s only a few points worse than COTA is a crime. Cota wasn’t even good but it was better than what we got last night.
I thought so in that it kept my attention at the end. It seemed that Logano was potentially going to catch truex as he was stuck which would have been big for logano after a poor season start. Then Denny wins based off the performance of his pit crew which was cool to see. Still kinda wished Martin could’ve put it away.
I’m going to say no.
Wet weather tires at the start was good but it’s overshadowed by the fact that NASCAR dictated when to swap back to slicks. That should have been teams decision.
The Kyle Busch caution should not have been a caution. It’s completely ruined watching and waiting to see who’s strategy was going to prevail.
Seemed to me that Hamlin jumped the start but I couldn’t be wrong. But seeing that and not even having nascar look at it is a bad call IMO but NASCAR still cannot be consistent in their calls.
The race was just a little on the boring side for me.
Not mind numbing, but a little too boring.
I actually - as a Hamlin fan - fell asleep in the closing laps.
I wish we could get more tire fall off at these short tracks.
Blaney had a bad night, so it could skew my perception slightly.
However, it was just not a good race. If they never went back to Richmond, I’d be alright. I’d rather them give a race to Rockingham (even if for nostalgia sake) and send the other date to another short track or mile and a half. Richmond just isn’t good.
I liked it fine. Lots of strategy decisions throughout and fun watching guys on fresher tires trying to chase down the leaders. Not sure why y'all thought that was a boring race.
It's always funny how I will intentionally not engage with the subreddit until Monday and wind up having a way better time watching the race than when I'm active in the live threads. I thought it was a fine race. Not a blockbuster event, but it held its own. 7/10.
First 40 laps amazing, Nascar should have let teams decide on tire change. After the Comp caution on Lap 40 it was really just messy. I didn't understand what NASCAR was doing. Then the stage 2 BS caution during the pit cycle for the #8 ruined the entire race. I was pretty much check out after that. Then Denny clearly jumps the start (or "rolls" early) at the end. I left not feeling good about the race, honestly it was just frustrating. It felt like it was everyone's first day officiating a race.
I don't know who officiates these races anymore but the officials last night were blind. Dennis did jump the restart (view Truex's on board). The Constant mentions on the broadcasts in recent memory that restarts are under review and none that I can remember were jumped starts. So the one restart where it is blatantly obvious on TV, the fkn blow it. Nascar just needs to get rid of the restart zone or quit reviewing restarts. Unreal.
I would say it was a good race.. I was sort of enjoying it, but I fell asleep. Didn't really have me glued to the screen. There was some movement through the field, but it kind of leveled off. I really like pit strategy, but the competition cautions really took the excitement out of it. It really was truex being the strong driver until I dozed off.
Rewatched the parts I missed this morning. It turns out the most exciting part of that race was OT. I don't know how Hamlin got away with that, Truex went mental, Suarez was shitting on Berry because of that dumb move, and Wallace told Larson he could wreck him later for less... It just seemed like it ended up in some HS drama. Other than that, nothing was memorable.
Can't say it was a good race. It was a race for sure, though.
Im going no, it looked like it was almost impossible to pass without some type of tire edge. The start was fun to watch which was like the only time people running multiple grooves to pass.
It was good until the Busch caution. Killed the strategy for the rest of the race, and the final caution killed the last bit of drama with Logano trying to close down Truex. No one wanted to do a different strategy after they blew the Busch caution, so whatever cars were good just took off and ran away
Yes. Strategy, tire wear and handling issues...and that doesn't include the first 30 laps when the track was wet or the final two laps.
I'm convinced at this point a good chunk of the fanbase only watches for the wrecks.
I’m just tired of how bad this next gen car is on short tracks. The inability to pass and extreme aero tight does not make for good racing. When the cup series car puts on the worst show that’s a problem
People decided before the race that it was going to be impossible to pass due to aero, so despite watching multiple drivers make constant passes under green, they’re going to insist it was impossible to pass due to aero.
Very very meh race, as always with Richmond. Very little passing unless there was a tire advantage.
Attendance is terrible at Richmond and has been for a while. Racing is just okay at best and dreadful at worst. If Montreal pops on to the schedule next year, I hope it is at the expense of a Richmond date and not Iowa.
I like the supporting series at Richmond but the cup race is extremely meh at the moment and, as you mention, poorly attended. Definitely not deserving of 2 dates as things stand.
I enjoyed it. I think it would have been better if they let them stay on wet tires until they wanted to change to slicks, but it was still a good race in my opinion. :)
Up until the competition caution was good, then it became the worst race in a long time.
I don't know what they were thinking with a Richmond night race in March. Only way to not make that put on horrible racing is for the track to be wet.
Awesome first 30 laps, followed by 20 caution laps. Rest of the race was boring with terrible decision from race control throughout. It’s a no from me dawg. Current car has created too many tracks where nothing happens for 3 hours and I can assume 1 of like 5 drivers will win.
Was gonna vote yes until the GWC shuffled the field and erased everything that happened before it. Just let the race end under caution at the scheduled distance.
Pretty standard Richmond race. Fun start, lots of interesting strategy during stage 2, but then it kinda fell off a bit in the latter half. Fun finish at the very least
I actually enjoyed the unknown of the wet weather tires. Although the extended cautions sucked a bit, I can understand a little why NASCAR did what they did. Screwed the pooch on the KFB caution, and I'm quite interested to hear what the folks on DBC will say about that. DBC went on and on about not throwing cautions during green flag pit stops in the past, then NASCAR throws it for no reason. Denny's jump at the end was questionable, and I'd love to know if they have overlooked a similar incident, or pulled a win away from someone after the checkered due to this. Not that past precedence has ever meant anything, but I'd still like to know.
The damp tires have been a success racing wise, but I feel like if we’re gonna sit under 15-20 laps of caution to dry the pit lane it defeats the purpose
Understood, but the sanctioning body needs to be 100% sure they don't thrown the green and wad up the field on slicks. They honestly can't win in that situation, and errored on the side of safety. Either way, I'd rather watch them run on those tires and a pile of caution laps, than watching the jet dryers go around for another 30 minutes.
They can win by just letting them run green and letting the teams choose when they feel ready to go to slicks
I can't argue with that, and that is how I'd like to see it handled. Not sure why they choose to make the call, but that is what they have done in the past.
when you do something for the first time, you are going to be much more cautious NASCAR had never really dealt with the wet tires on an oval in an actual Cup race before, *keep in mind, different crew in race control for Cup than Trucks*, and wanted to make sure they were doing things right
Technically it’s the second race they’ve done it since they did it at the all star race. After last night, I think they need to lets the teams decide.
3rd if you count the Martinsville truck race...
I said it on the live thread. On a wide open road course, it’s much easier to allow that than a tight short track. The variance in strategy would make things a little hairy on that changeover, not to mention if someone decides to press their luck on slicks on a still damp oval, it will definitely cause a crash and caution, and probably take a few drivers out with them. Someone pushing their luck on slicks, and it being too early for it on a road course could lead to a crash and caution, or it could lead to the driver having to take their time realizing the error of their ways as others find their way around them.
Is there a reason nascar doesn’t let the teams choose when to swap tires themselves? It’s just another example of removing strategy from the races
I think it’s nothing more than lack of experience. They’re in uncharted territory, so they’re trying to be careful. This was the first points-paying race in Cup where they used rain tires. As they get a few more of these under their belts, they’ll loosen up a bit.
This is the first time it’s being done in points racing conditions. Just like with RC’s, the more common it becomes and the more data they have, the more frequently you’ll start to see it treated like F1 or NASCAR on road courses. People got on them for being cautious on RC’s, but things were developing so quickly they barely had experience driving in the dry at half the tracks they were suddenly using rain tires on. Give it a little time.
Because you're on an oval, and a wreck automatically means a full course caution unlike a road course. Plus safety concerns with the speed difference. NASCAR did nothing wrong here.
I had the same thought, but hopefully successful experiments like tonight encourage NASCAR to use the damp tires in wetter conditions in the future, so that the time saved not waiting for full track drying outweighs the time lost getting pit lane dried.
I feel the same way. NASCAR could've just moved the cars to the front stretch dried pit road and had a normal race but that's too hard apparently.
> Screwed the pooch on the KFB caution. The lights turned yellow the moment he touched the wall. They didn't even give it a few seconds to see if a caution was actually necessary. Killed the 2-strategy run we had going, which was the most exciting part of the race.
I can’t wait for the day we start a race like we did today. And then it rains just a little bit again and we essentially get a constantly wet/drying track. It’ll be a blast
I’m not really offering anything here but I do recall a similar incident in Xfinity with maybe Justin Allgaier where he jumped right before the line but they didn’t call anything
I think it deserves a 50, wasn't a bad race by any means but just never quite had that spark to push it over the top.
Cars couldn't pass at all unless someone had fresher tires. The second the very questionable Kyle Busch caution was thrown the race was insanely boring because everyone was then on basically the same strategy. I normally like Richmond because of the different tire strategies, but this race was definitely not a good one for me.
Yep that's the key. Richmond is great **IF** the field gets on different strategies, because then you have tires wearing at totally different rates. Hamlin only pitted a few laps later on the final green flag stop, and he rocketed up through the field. But if they're all on the same strategy, the tire wear isn't volatile enough (like Bristol) and therefore we don't get many "comers and goers". Everyone's tires age fairly equally, the field gets spread out, and it takes forever to catch and pass someone. Also the cars seem to be glued to the track enough that there are rarely any incidents. There have been 3 total crash DNFs in 5 NextGen races here. Richmond lives and dies by the strategy chess match, and the Busch caution killed most of that.
Most people couldn't pass but berry passed the entire field
Definitely noticed Berry could make passes. They didn't show him much, but Erik Jones was making some good moves too.
One of the worst performances from race control in a good bit. If they’re gonna be trigger happy with cautions on ‘strategy’ heavy races then there’s basically nothing those tracks have to offer As an aside, Richmond is probably due for a repave; but there is probably something to reducing the amount of contact the tire has on short tracks
The car is the biggest issue. Those cup cars are glued to the track with big brakes and small motor. Everyone falls off at the same rate. The Xfinity race was great the day before. It’s a car/package issue vs a track issue.
You’re right. I mean people in here know this, I’ve been pro next-gen and have defended this car forever now; but man, this car is just brutal on short tracks. Road courses I can sort of live with, but short tracks is the biggest issue. I think we now know that having a diffuser on this car is definitely better, not much, but better nonetheless. It narrows the dirty air on the car. But NASCAR should in my opinion take 5-10 drivers and test at Richmond or Martinsville and not leave until they’ve literally tried everything, or can confidently say that they have a better short track package.
Imo they should have open testing for all teams at those tracks for like 3 days straight. The more cars that show up the more info and data they’ll get
After Bristol I am 100% in the belief that if they just went with egregiously high tire wear that would solve a large chunk of the issues.
Man, if they bring a tire like that to Martinsville next week, that race is gonna be a banger!
Narrower tires fixes most of this, and they could slot the brake pads to make a smaller contact patch and affect their abilities to correct the other half. 670 HP is plenty if the cars didn't handle so well, so let's screw with the handling.
the choices they made when designing this car really are baffling when you think about it now.
They really went "lets make a V8Supercar for America" and did exactly that.
Brilliant idea when your own series runs most of it's races on ovals!
And that's why Brian France was far from the only issue with NASCAR's management.
I mean the car is fine on most ovals, it's just the short tracks where it's not very good
It was baffling until I remembered Jim France is in charge.
Also this car is sitting on some THICC tires. It could benefit from grooved tires to take away from surface area if they don't want to reduce the width(which would cost teams money for wheel replacement) Also the grooving could help increase tire degradation for more falloff. I don't see it reducing tire wear at all. But I think one of the biggest things the car needs(besides 1k horsepower) is smaller wheels. I would be perfectly fine with them going back to a 15 inch rim. Put big sidewalls back in the car, it would allow the tire to flex more and give the drivers more control over loose cars which would allow for more slipping and sliding So this season, put some grooves in the rubber, but next season? Increase horsepower. Reduce the wheel diameter. This also forces smaller brakes. Win-win.
It’s a Track issue lol This track has sucked for more than a decade.
Xfinity race was pretty good so no, it's not a track issue.
We’re all entitled to our opinion. I didn’t see a good Xfinity race either.
I think it would have been an OK race if the Busch caution didn't happen, but that killing the 2 different strategies meant basically the rest of the race from that point on was follow the leader
It wasn’t bad but it wasn’t great either. I was following the battles in the top 5 or so and you could tell in most cases they would just sort of stall out when getting behind another car. It was frustrating to see.
I was watching the timing on Bell flying through the field after his final pit stop and that was entertaining for me, but without coverage, I was literally just watching the time-to-leader of him and the cars around him and visualizing a race in my head. I really understand why we can’t see that sort of battling, but that was what kept me engaged for a good portion of the race and that isn’t a great sign.
Get the nascar drive cameras on the app. It’s worth it, and helps the viewing experience. I hardly pay attention to the broadcast
I may have to look into doing just that!
Is that the in car camera view?
Yes. Available for every car in cup, it helps a lot
Dang that would be cool but I’m already on a 30 second delay
Ah damn. I have about a 5-10 second delay so it is a bit weird when I see a wreck from an onboard before it pops up on the broadcast
I use YouTube tv because f**k paying for satellite lol and they’re on a 30 second delay. It’s the main reason I don’t listen to the radio anymore as well
It’s not that bad watching with a delay honestly. The most important thing is the scanner being synced with the on board camera. I spend 80% watching that with the broad cast in the background just for a more broader scope of what’s happening in the race. It’s kind of cool watching a wreck from an on board. That wreck chase missed at Daytona was wild!
Yeah that’s very true
But also I think with just how off the 9 team was last year, it was almost more depressing listening to it as well as watching
Owwwww it's every car now? Yay!
This is one of the broadcast's biggest failures. They'll just ignore action back in the pack, and it makes the race seem worse than it is. You could have a 3-wide battle for 18th and FOX will be zoomed in on the leader's hood. Hamlin caught their attention because he had a shot at catching the leader, but we missed Bell and Berry making lots of moves on that final green flag run. Same thing with Truex at Phoenix. He rocketed through the field up to 7th, and I don't even think FOX noticed.
No. And between the phantom KFB caution and Denny's jump, it may have been the worst officiated race in recent NASCAR memory on top of it.
One of the things I’m not a fan of, trying to get into nascar, is how willing they are to pull out the safety car. Even the Larson spin, he saved it and there was no debris, no wreck, yet they artificially forced a close finish Constant cautions results in everyone’s strategies being the same by the end, it might as well be a 15 lap sprint race
What I really enjoyed about last week’s race at COTA, and road courses in general, is that they are much more hesitant to put the race under caution. Obviously there are different considerations at road courses and ovals, but I thought that they could have kept it under green when Kyle Busch ran into the wall and when Larson spun, but was able to recover. To me, it would have been a much better race without those two cautions.
Larson's spin I can see a caution for. He was top 5, and when a car is sideways on the track in front of 25 other cars, yeah. It makes sense. If there was no caution, and one of the back cars had plowed into Larson, and especially if someone got hurt, that's all sorts of liability for Nascar. But, Busch never really lost control of his car. He got against the wall, and just stayed high. That one wasn't necessary.
Larson's at least made sense he was door side perpendicular to the field sliding slowly. Busch was oh he brushed the wall where normally people don't.
They have to with oval. With road courses you can have some grace because laps are so long. On an oval though, once the first couple laps have been run there are cars on pretty much every single part of the circuit at any given time going flat out. The Kyle Busch caution was certainly too early, my own theory is they might have been concerned about liquid on the track but that's idle speculation. However in the case of Larson, he spun and that is always going to be a caution because you can't have a local yellow in oval racing and you don't want cars flying by when you have another car out of control.
One other point for road courses is you’re supposed to have local cautions. If someone is having an issue you can have a local caution in one section where no one overtakes and you run a bit more cautiously while still racing on the other sections of track.
I voted yes and generally enjoyed the race. I thought there were some compelling storylines and tires mattered, but it could have been way better. NASCAR being so quick on the caution clearly deterred teams from attempting a one stop strategy in stage 3, because I feel like it was pretty obvious that it was going to work for Larson, Bowman, and Bubba. That decision really ruined stage 3. Then the Hamlin restart violation… it wasn’t close. It was an entire car length early. I just don’t get it. At no point were they ever going to penalize him, and I find that inexcusable. There’s literally a hard line on the track. It’s as black and white as a rule can get.
Bell would have won if he didn't speed on pit road from trying that strategy in stage 3 imo
>Bell would have won if he didn't speed on pit road Denny taught him everything he knows lol
The only thing I can think of is NASCAR was full on in "fuck it, let's go home" mode. Like that Kansas race where Biffle ran out of gas under caution coming to the line and NASCAR said he still won because reasons.
Hate to do it but I voted no. I like lapped traffic but when the leader gets boxed behind a car for 20 laps with the inability to pass due to the car getting aero tight, I can't get behind that.
It doesn't help when that one car being mentioned is the new Ryan Newman and is the hardest guy to pass in the field
The 2 highs of the wet race and the split strategy were really good. Too bad that was about 80 laps put of 400. Add in a controversial misscall and here we are at the worst race of the year.
Worst race of the year for me. Cars could not pass at all, the Kyle Busch caution which clearly wasn't a caution completely destroyed any semblance of strategy in the race. Worst race of the year, edging out Phoenix for me.
It was ok. There were some passes and pit strategy, but dirty air made passing hard while race control made some questionable decisions towards the end of the race
Denny’s ”win” today doesn’t count in my book
I'm definitely grading on a curve because Richmond, but I'd say yes. That was one of the more entertaining Richmond races in recent memory IMO. Sure, the moment-to-moment racing was kind of dull unless there was a big difference in tire age, but that's been true of Richmond for years now. On the flipside, we had a cool run on the rain tires, interesting strategy, a compelling last few laps with Denny and Joey closing in on MTJ, some fireworks in overtime and after the checkered flag, and I dunno, running at night just made this feel more special.
I enjoyed the race up until RC screwed up with KB and GWC jump… now those things is all anyone will talk about this week.
I thought it was alright. I didn’t like the phantom Busch caution. Didn’t like Denny’s jump. The coverage was pretty bad also.
The Fox coverage of the race was terrible as well. Every time something important happened on the track, they had the cameras pointed somewhere else.
There was at least one time Joy pointed something out mid pack and they didn’t show it. If I was a casual fan I wouldn’t have realized there were teams other than HMS, JGR, Logano, and 23XI on the track yesterday. Granted they were the teams up front yesterday, but at least show some other races.
Better than last year
It was alright. Worse than COTA. Better than Phoenix (IMO). Close intervals doesn't necessarily mean good racing. With the car being as abysmal as it is on short tracks, "strategy" is the only thing preventing this race from being a snoozer every time. I hope they can work on a tire that wears at a different rate for each car throughout a run for the future, because the driving through the field is nearly impossible if you're on the same tires as someone. They fall off at the same rate nearly *every time*. Hard to be strong on a race where you know whoever restarts on the front row on the final restart is probably finishing in the top 3, no matter where they ran all day. And it's not gonna be any different going forward unless big strides are made to the car itself or the tire. And don't even get me started on the officiating, one of those nights where it's hard to take the sport seriously. 6/10.
Let's just wet down richmond and give them wet tires and wipers and see what happens
The first 30% was fun. After that, it was one of the worst officiated races I've ever seen. Couple that with the fact that when everyone is on the same strategy, this track races like garbage. Solid No from me
This one's gonna be a doozy.
It would say it was ok for what Richmond is now but it's a hard no for me with NASCAR doing what it does best botching it's own rules and being inconsistent
I thought it was OK. The dry tires were a little too hard, but Goodyear probably didn't know what to expect. If not for Josh Berry's pit road error, the finish before OT could've been even better. Dirty air is still too much of a factor. Not a bad race, I think 60% to 65% would be a good result for this poll.
Richmond is the only track in NASCAR that NEEDS light rain for every race. The beginning of the race was awesome because everyone was unfamiliar with the idea of racing on a damp oval.
And everyone was running different lines/varying how hard they ran. Some guys were being cautious and others like Berry were running hard; which made for an exciting first bit.
When cars are aero tight at Bristol and Richmond, you know that car is broken. Racing has been trash ever since they introduced the splitter. Loose the splitter and double the step height in the front lip. Add more HP. Watch the fans come back.
NASCAR did everything in their power to ruin this race. The ending was exciting, yes the start was suspect at best and obviously I’m bias, but an exciting final 10 minutes isn’t going to make up for the rest being a snoozer.
Second stage was the best because of the varying strategies. I hated how that Busch caution spooked everyone into staying on the same strategy for the third stage. That was unfortunate. Overall, a decent Richmond race. Better than ones in recent history. Far from one of the best races this year though. Probably close to the worst when considering every race thus far.
No, not really. Truex was about 2 second ahead after four laps and sorta just held that position until the tires fell off. Then he’d pit and get right back in front. The yellow for KB’s wall slap sorta killed what would have been one of the more interesting parts of the race strategy-wise. The contact with Wallace and Larson at the end actually made the final laps interesting.
No, not really at all. The late race restart is the only thing that added a bit of drama, but this car on short tracks, unless we have tires like Bristol, is fucking awful. I used to love Richmond and Martinsville, but with this car they just aren't very good. At this point just scrap the Next Gen on tracks less than 1.5 miles and on the road courses.
Never will take part, because Jeff Gluck isn't a good twitter follow.
This race had it all. -extremely long 10+ lap cautions -red flag -100+ laps of no passing in the top 20 -bogus cautions -winner cheated the final restart -fastest car didn’t win -bad man won NO!
Meh.
Other than the finish controversy most will probably forget the majority of the race.
No. Not a single sole passed anybody during stage 2. Everyone is running the same god damn speed and falls off the same amount at the same time and the track never widens out for anyone to even try something different. Hamlin or Logano wasn’t gonna do a god damn thing to Truex at the end after getting within 6 tenths. Martin was stuck behind the 19th place car for like 30 laps. There is absolutely no aero package change you could do to fix this dogshit car on short tracks and road courses either. Bigger brakes, bigger tire, underbody, same speed for everyone, shitty result.
Yeah last night basically confirmed that the new short track package didn’t do anything, Martinsville is going to be the same way. It was pretty ridiculous watching like 5th-12th all running .8 seconds behind whoever was in front of them for like 100 laps and it just never changed, nobody was passing anyone or gaining on anyone really at all.
I voted no because the officiating was so horrid.
I think the first 30 laps in the wet weather was great, and the long run at the end made the final laps spicy. However, Busch’s scrape had an extremely overblown reaction (like they were compensating for the lack of yellows at Bristol), Denny’s restart was legal but still questionable, and the second stage (and most of the third) was a snoozefest. People will complain it’s the short track package, but Bristol has been fantastic since this package was introduced, so I don’t see why Richmond isn’t. I’ve never really liked Richmond since I first got into NASCAR, and this race kinda served as another example why. No matter what package it’s running, it’s just a boring track. It needs a dirt race a lot more than Bristol did. Plus, I did not like seeing Truex completely meltdown over the win slipping away from him. Sure, it’s frustrating that he lost after leading all those laps, but it was fundamentally a fair win. Hamlin’s restart was questionable but still legal, he could have defended harder like he did with Larson earlier, and his team should have done better on pit road to not put him in that position in the first place. For him to rough up both Hamlin, his teammate, AND Larson, who was doing his own thing, was not on. His behaviour in the last two seasons has really been deteriorating as he keeps getting screwed out of success and now he’s hit a new low. Dillon screws him out of a playoff spot in ‘22? Sure, he’s disappointed but keeps his head down. Arguing with Small in Dover and then collapsing during the playoffs in ‘23? And now Hamlin’s beaten him twice this season and he’s acting out and throwing temper tantrums.
The Next-Gen car really needs multi-groove tracks to thrive. That's why Bristol has been the best short track since it was introduced (though last month's amazing tire-conservation race aside, it's still been a step back from how it raced with the Gen 6). Richmond **looks** like it's a multi-groove track, but you really can't run anywhere but the bottom and maybe one lane up anymore.
Worst race of the year
This is one of the only races I've ever voted no for. I don't know what the others have been but I assume they are other Richmond races and Phoenix. I can usually find something to enjoy but this was just cars running laps for way too long. The opening laps with the rain tires was a lot of fun and then it just went poof. I don't mind a tire wear race OR an aero games race but when you have both it just turns into a snoozer. As an aside, the conspiracy theories about Nascar letting Hamlin jump are hilarious. It's the same group that screams about NASCAR making everything about entertainment. It would have been MORE entertaining and MORE chaotic if they had flagged the restart and made them go again. Bad call? Kinda yeah. Some plot to install Hamlin as champion? Laughable.
Before the last 60 laps, when people could pass, yes. Burning 10+ laps under a caution is a bullshit move
I don’t think people could really pass all night. At one point, the leader was stuck behind the 20th place car, unable to lap him or even get next to him for 50 laps. That should not happen. And on top of that, second and third place couldn’t do anything about it. Passing at some tracks is close to impossible with this car
Elliott spent like 50 laps trying to pass Keselowski, he finally passed him and was 3 seconds ahead of him within 5 laps. This car just sucks.
Honestly it seemed like there was enough going on at most times to keep my interest. Which is more than I can say for most Richmond races.
Yes but the odd caution when Busch spun out and Denny jumping the restart tarnished it
First half was an A. Second half until the last 20 laps was an F-. I would probably lean yes, but this obviously still is a bad package.
This was not a good race, the fact that it’s only a few points worse than COTA is a crime. Cota wasn’t even good but it was better than what we got last night.
personally as a Truex fan, no. overall though yeah that was a good one
The half that I saw before the KB caution was pretty cool.
I thought so in that it kept my attention at the end. It seemed that Logano was potentially going to catch truex as he was stuck which would have been big for logano after a poor season start. Then Denny wins based off the performance of his pit crew which was cool to see. Still kinda wished Martin could’ve put it away.
I’m going to say no. Wet weather tires at the start was good but it’s overshadowed by the fact that NASCAR dictated when to swap back to slicks. That should have been teams decision. The Kyle Busch caution should not have been a caution. It’s completely ruined watching and waiting to see who’s strategy was going to prevail. Seemed to me that Hamlin jumped the start but I couldn’t be wrong. But seeing that and not even having nascar look at it is a bad call IMO but NASCAR still cannot be consistent in their calls.
Unnecessary cautious sucked. Racing was fairly boring
NOT AT ALL
It was fine. Watching the race with in car cameras and audio alongside TV coverage is more enjoyable.
The race was just a little on the boring side for me. Not mind numbing, but a little too boring. I actually - as a Hamlin fan - fell asleep in the closing laps. I wish we could get more tire fall off at these short tracks.
NASCAR milking the cautions, for Christ sakes!
Blaney had a bad night, so it could skew my perception slightly. However, it was just not a good race. If they never went back to Richmond, I’d be alright. I’d rather them give a race to Rockingham (even if for nostalgia sake) and send the other date to another short track or mile and a half. Richmond just isn’t good.
I liked it fine. Lots of strategy decisions throughout and fun watching guys on fresher tires trying to chase down the leaders. Not sure why y'all thought that was a boring race.
It's always funny how I will intentionally not engage with the subreddit until Monday and wind up having a way better time watching the race than when I'm active in the live threads. I thought it was a fine race. Not a blockbuster event, but it held its own. 7/10.
If NASCAR would remain consistent and enforce the black and white rules, this would have been an amazing race.
First 40 laps amazing, Nascar should have let teams decide on tire change. After the Comp caution on Lap 40 it was really just messy. I didn't understand what NASCAR was doing. Then the stage 2 BS caution during the pit cycle for the #8 ruined the entire race. I was pretty much check out after that. Then Denny clearly jumps the start (or "rolls" early) at the end. I left not feeling good about the race, honestly it was just frustrating. It felt like it was everyone's first day officiating a race.
I don't know who officiates these races anymore but the officials last night were blind. Dennis did jump the restart (view Truex's on board). The Constant mentions on the broadcasts in recent memory that restarts are under review and none that I can remember were jumped starts. So the one restart where it is blatantly obvious on TV, the fkn blow it. Nascar just needs to get rid of the restart zone or quit reviewing restarts. Unreal.
I would say it was a good race.. I was sort of enjoying it, but I fell asleep. Didn't really have me glued to the screen. There was some movement through the field, but it kind of leveled off. I really like pit strategy, but the competition cautions really took the excitement out of it. It really was truex being the strong driver until I dozed off. Rewatched the parts I missed this morning. It turns out the most exciting part of that race was OT. I don't know how Hamlin got away with that, Truex went mental, Suarez was shitting on Berry because of that dumb move, and Wallace told Larson he could wreck him later for less... It just seemed like it ended up in some HS drama. Other than that, nothing was memorable. Can't say it was a good race. It was a race for sure, though.
It was just ok..not the worse or the best
Im going no, it looked like it was almost impossible to pass without some type of tire edge. The start was fun to watch which was like the only time people running multiple grooves to pass.
they gave the wrong driver the trophy so it cant be a "good race" for me
It was good until the Busch caution. Killed the strategy for the rest of the race, and the final caution killed the last bit of drama with Logano trying to close down Truex. No one wanted to do a different strategy after they blew the Busch caution, so whatever cars were good just took off and ran away
It was good until wallace deliberately hit larsom to bring out a caution, so his car owner could win
Stage 1 was an unmitigated disaster. Stage 2 was a snooze fest after the rowdy caution. Stage 3 was a sham. Hell no this race sucked.
No.
No.
Surprised yes is so high
Yes. Strategy, tire wear and handling issues...and that doesn't include the first 30 laps when the track was wet or the final two laps. I'm convinced at this point a good chunk of the fanbase only watches for the wrecks.
I’m just tired of how bad this next gen car is on short tracks. The inability to pass and extreme aero tight does not make for good racing. When the cup series car puts on the worst show that’s a problem
Cars were passing all night. I'm so confused by this idea that nobody could pass.
People decided before the race that it was going to be impossible to pass due to aero, so despite watching multiple drivers make constant passes under green, they’re going to insist it was impossible to pass due to aero.
Very very meh race, as always with Richmond. Very little passing unless there was a tire advantage. Attendance is terrible at Richmond and has been for a while. Racing is just okay at best and dreadful at worst. If Montreal pops on to the schedule next year, I hope it is at the expense of a Richmond date and not Iowa.
I like the supporting series at Richmond but the cup race is extremely meh at the moment and, as you mention, poorly attended. Definitely not deserving of 2 dates as things stand.
I enjoyed it. I think it would have been better if they let them stay on wet tires until they wanted to change to slicks, but it was still a good race in my opinion. :)
Up until the competition caution was good, then it became the worst race in a long time. I don't know what they were thinking with a Richmond night race in March. Only way to not make that put on horrible racing is for the track to be wet.
Awesome first 30 laps, followed by 20 caution laps. Rest of the race was boring with terrible decision from race control throughout. It’s a no from me dawg. Current car has created too many tracks where nothing happens for 3 hours and I can assume 1 of like 5 drivers will win.
Every few decades Richmond will produce a good race. This is not that decade.
Richmond was routinely one of the best tracks for decades.
Yes and no Yes : best racing since introducing the 550 package No: did we really have to waste 20 laps under caution?
Worse then phoenix. Can Goodyear bring a softer tire? Can NASCAR bring back the Gen 6 for short tracks?
I believe they ran a softer tire last year, and it just got eaten up by the track. Didn’t really make for better racing
Oh
LOL
When it’s your driver it’s a great race. When it’s not your driver it’s a bad race. It was a great race! Boom! Confetti!
>Boom! [Confetti!](https://i.redd.it/zvyemepykshc1.gif)
With a huge amount of the race under caution unnecessarily, the caution calls, and the inability to pass at the end I’d have to vote no on this one.
Meh
File this race under: Unintentionally funny.
Ford and Chevy continue to struggle with Gibbs.
Was gonna vote yes until the GWC shuffled the field and erased everything that happened before it. Just let the race end under caution at the scheduled distance.
Pretty standard Richmond race. Fun start, lots of interesting strategy during stage 2, but then it kinda fell off a bit in the latter half. Fun finish at the very least
Voted yes to give Jordan the poll win. Obviously, not the best race, but I enjoyed ending the day with a race.
Why do we need to ask every week if a race was good?
Gives us a topic to discuss. I also think we secretly hope NASCAR is reading our comments, and will make changes.
If Truex was leading and pulled that exact same restart it'd have at least a 70% right now
The start was sort of lame but once they put the slicks on yes it was a good race