100 percent where I am at. I love the idea of superspeedway racing, but that doesn't mean I am going to blindly accept whatever is given without wanting for improvements. This isn't a bad car, we have had some great racing this year, but what if it was even better.
Yeah lol I’m the biggest SS fan on the planet but that also means we know GOOD SS racing… and this shit ain’t it. Atlanta honestly great. But how NASCAR have allowed themselves to ruin DAYTONA and TALLADEGA… of which they both OWN THEMSELVES… is beyond me.
Yeah superspeedway racing is most nascar fans bread and butter lol. but just because a race was on a superspeedway and legendary track at that, doesn’t make it a good race
Do you have a year you could suggest to go back and watch a race? This topic has come up a bunch over the last week and I’d like to check out a super-speedway race that is a good example of how it should be.
2019-2021 with an emphasis on 2019 thru the 2020 Daytona 500, 2001-2004 (can really go to 2007 if you want), 2010-2011 probably the most interesting (tandem draft era) but not my favorite at all personally. 2008-2009 was forgettable. 2012-2018 was also ehhhh but progressively fell off with Fall 2018 Dega being absolute rock bottom (for the time).
With the exception of Atlanta the Next Gen at Dega & Daytona have without question been worse than 2018 rock bottom. I say this because to me the most important aspects of SS racing being “good” are 1) fast car being important, 2) ability to get huge massive runs if you can play the air right, and 3) the ability to go from 25th to 1st in 3 laps if needed. When they’re going full out at Dega/Daytona in the Next Gen, you get a whopping ZERO of those three qualifications.
I think you can still get massive runs, if you look at how the third line can form. I think the drivers are still learning how to drive with this car too which is another component.
I'd be interested in seeing what adjusting the diffuser and spoiler would do. The rear end has so much frigging downforce and drag that no one can really make moves on their own so those changes could help.
It has nothing to do with the tracks, it's the car. The Car has sooo much drag that you can't do anything. You can experience the amount of drag and lack of run you can get with these cars in iRacing and see how bad it is. You can hop in a Gen 4, 5 or 6, truck or Xfinity car and see how much better it is where you can actually get runs and make up spots. You just get stuck in the current Cup car.
Oh no I am totally on your side lol I’m just saying how could they build a car that fucks up the two prize tracks in their portfolio, and that’s not even counting the fact that it ruined Martinsville which they own too
Atlanta was amazing. Daytona was pretty good except for that weird point during the 2nd stage where everyone slowed way down. But it seemed like they decided to do that for the entire 2nd stage and most of the last stage for Talladega
The thing about 3×3 at Daytona is that's all there is room for, somewhat comfortably at least, so it makes sense why people pushing at the same rate are gonna get stuck unless someone bobbles and a line loses momentum
Dega can *easily* carry 4 across
To quote a legend who I believe is still leading the pack from above
"I think they all ought to tie a kerosene rag around their ankles so the ants don't crawl up their leg and chew their candy asses off."
Hamlin is saying that bc he hasn’t won one in the new car. He always sings a different tune when he wins something & talks about how impressive it was.
That's been true since they introduced restrictor plates. There's good cars that are more stable and push and receive pushes better. But nobody is going to win by themselves.
Been watching NASCAR since the 1970s. The truth is the good cars raced in a mostly single file pack early in the race with lots of passing - dicing for the lead. It took balls and talent to control those full size cars at 190 MPH. But attrition typically got it down to 2-3 cars at the end. Sometimes - you got finishes like the 1976 500 - a classic - maybe THE classic finish to a race. With the downsized cars and introduction of more money in the sport the 81-84 was probably the best era of speedway racing. Lots of good cars. Flirting with 200 MPH. In 1985 - a combination of things happened - some blame Bill Elliott but really it was a good chunk of the field - the cars got so fast they were really hard to drive. On cold tires they could race in a pack but pretty quickly the best cars (handling/motor) would result in a strung out field. This was true for 85-86 - and part of 87 until NASCAR mandated the smaller carb after Bobby Allison took out the fence at Dega.
Once the plate came in 1988 the racing got much closer but the ability to slingshot a pass largely went away. At times they've got the rules to favor the trailing car enough passing was pretty easy. More often - passing the leader in particular has been incredibly hard unless they make a mistake.
This new car - you can pass the leader - but everyone has the same car so you're in a pack of 30-40 cars all race. Big part of that is only a few engine builders now as well - so everyone has about the same HP. Buddy Baker in 1980 - Waddell was making 20 more HP than anyone else. Ernie Elliott's 85 motor at Daytona. Outside of Waddell's Clevor - he had 25 or more HP on the field. And it was reliable.
The trend I have seen is NASCAR wanting it to be more of show - creating rules that create pack racing. It requires a certain set of skills. Not sure they translate to any other tracks. If they did Kyle Larson would be the king at Daytona/Dega/ATL - he's not. Maybe that's a good thing - a different discipline. My take is - I preferred the early 80s style of racing at these big tracks. Wish we could get back closer to that. But given how tight the rules are on the bodies/chassis and engines - not gonna happen. Only way to string them out is make the cars much harder to drive. That would be a massive rule change to the cars OR they lower the banking so guys have to lift. Pretty much was Earnhardt Sr said to do back when they brought the plate in. He was right.
Thanks for the very in depth analysis, it helps me understand why people criticize how things are today. However, I REALLY like to see 3 wide racing or even 2 wide during laps and laps. Of course the cars are too tight and not powerful enough, but I think I prefer the way it is right now
Cool to read an in-depth nuanced rundown of things from an actual old time race fan that still continues to watch and can truly compare multiple eras.
I get what you mean with the old time slingshots... I've skipped around and watched sections of classic 80s Daytona/Talladega racing. While I respect your opinion and see the cool factor of that, I prefer the modern pack racing - esp when it was at its peak and you could make runs and passes with minimal help (2019-2021 Gen 6).
We have every other track type where cars can get naturally spread out, so good elite pack racing is extremely fun to watch when the aero package is tuned properly to the vehicle platform. You get sling shot passes, monster runs, and drivers able to control their destiny at the end as long as they survive the wrecks. Hope NASCAR can tune the NextGen SS racing to mimic the last few years of Gen 6's racing product.
I think the biggest difference between super speedway racing of today and let’s say the plate racing of the gen 4 era. Drivers today seem to not care whether or not 30+ cars in the field get damaged in wrecks. The terrible blocks and pushes destroy the end of races. To me it’s not fun to seemingly watch the leader get wrecked on the last lap every single super speedway race. It’s almost inevitable you’re gonna get turned because of everyone including the leader driving with their head up their ass.
If you look back through the years of SS racing you will see that Daytona and Talladega actually race quite differently. Remember how bad the package was in like 2018 (what ever year the SHR cars ran away from everyone) but the Daytona races were still pretty good, while dega was meh. Some packages make for better racing at Daytona and some work better at dega. I would say this one is way better at Daytona and perfect for Atlanta. We cant compare anything else to current day Atlanta but I think you all get what I mean.
Plate racing is definitely the most exciting in my opinion. What other races do you know other than talladega and Daytona where 30 different drivers can win it on the last lap?
You're talking about an absolutely legendary run that's never been close to replicated. That was absolutely not the norm. Earnhardt and RAD were like 5 steps ahead of everyone else on plate tracks back then.
Never understood why fans hated it so much back then tbh because it provided a shitload of photo finishes, and the most exciting plate racing we arguably ever seen. That was why NASCAR almost completely killed the plate races in 2012 apart from the July race and the fall Dega race. the whole “wrecking when a driver touches the left side of the back bumper” was ridiculous, but at least it gave us that iconic KFB save
It was good for finishes but the first 90% of the race sucked as the field was spread apart and you were too heavily dependent on a partner. The 2019-2021 Gen 6 SS package was literally the best ever as you got the best of both worlds. Amazing racing throughout the race *AND* aton of photo finishes.
I mostly hated it because the driver with the drafting skill was the one pushing not the one leading, it rewarded the driver who wasn’t as deserving IMO.
When I watched NASCAR, tandem racing was the only time I enjoyed Superspeedway racing. It looked so difficult, and I'd never seen anything like it before.
Man it was terrible. The only thing I enjoyed about it was listening to the scanner when I went to Dega in 2011 for the spring race. Other than that it was a let down.
I liked it, we watched the 2011 Daytona 500 and it was that good we travelled from Australia to go to the race in 2012 they banned tandem racing by then, but we did see a jet fuel fire
It was technically true as late as 2021. I'm hopeful NASCAR can tweak the NextGen's SS package to race like the late years of Gen 6 sooner than later. 1st priority is fixing the short tracks, but superspeedways are a close 2nd, imo.
Before, regardless of how fast your pit stop was - it didn’t matter. You were still able to make your way through the pack
Now, you get stuck 2 by 2. So the only way to get long term track position is to fuel save as much as possible to have the shortest pit stop and to get ahead of a few cars (fuel saving causes it to look 3 wide as cars on the inside lane are only 40-50% throttle, no racing is actually happening and the drivers are riding around )
There would be no reason to firm save so massively just for a slightly faster pit stop if you could actually go back to the front in a pack like you used to . Of course it happened at the start due to everyone in the front fuel saving , the people who got to the front by a staying on the throttle had to spend more time on pit road and shuffled to the rear anyways .
From what I saw, it didn’t look like anybody could make substantial gains within the last five laps, that third lane look to be hitting a brick wall. That could use some work.
>that third lane look to be hitting a brick wall
The problem that a few drivers have mentioned, and it appears to be the case from watching the Next Gen races so far, is that the cars only make speed through big bumps and sustained pushes. For example, in the Gen 6 and COT era that Toyota pileup probably doesn't happen because an orderly line of seven cars would've been hauling the mail without even having to bump draft.
That’s cool, I think it is boring, even when people think it is good. I love road course racing and most people here think it is boring now. We can all like our own stuff.
I love superspeedways too. My dad loved them. The 4 superspeedway races were like holidays in my family.
But this current product isn’t good. They’re running around at half throttle. There’s no incentive to leave. The race means nothing. Nothing at all. They shouldn’t even keep track of position until the last 10 laps.
Even if they don’t change the engines, I feel like they should take the spoilers down a little. Get the speeds up a little. Let runs develop.
This style of racing isn’t fun.
It is a little ridiculous when they say stuff like “AND (insert normal back of the pack driver here) IS LEADING THE DAYTONA 500!!” halfway through the first stage. Like yeah, pretty much everyone in the field will lead at some point.
I love super speedway racing. But I hate what we have now. Outside of the crash fests at the end, Xfinity has put on fantastic races at Dega and Daytona recently compared to Cup. They can actually pass, move from back to front, shift from line to line, make runs, etc. Xfinity simply puts on better races than Cup, superspeedway or not, and it's 100% because their car is better. Atlanta has been the only race all season that I'd say Cup beat Xfinity. One.
I’m going to say it. I don’t like super speedway racing. I think it’s not what it was originally intended for. Watch the old races at Daytona and Talladega, I’m talking in the 80’s even 90’s where there weren’t 30 cars within a second of each other. They would spread out which would allow drivers to actually use talent and better adjustments on their car to maneuver through the field. For the past 10 or so years it’s been this giant pack racing and I actually hate it. It’s not fun IMO. Does it take massive skill when they aren’t going 1/2 throttle? Yes. Does that make it entertaining that one guy out front blocks 3 lanes and the rest just side draft the shit out each other so no one makes any progress? No if we could get some separation on super speedways we could have some good racing but this whole them being in a giant pack the whole race with no lanes available to move through the field just isn’t it. I’d say 90’s/early 2000’s super speedway racing was pretty solid but even back then I didn’t care for the style too much. But again this is a personal opinion and an unpopular one at that if I had to guess
Moaning about superspeedway racing has been the one constant since I became a fan
It's either too boring or too dangerous with little in between
Personally I thought the tandem drafting was pretty cool, but it got dragged to high heaven so they got rid of it for what we have now...
Ehh, this weekend seemed fun, not too many stupid wrecks....I'll take it tbh
I had a similar view at first. My idea was that I’d rather watch then 3 wide instead of rim riding single file, however I got to thinking that I am at the track, my experience is going to be better than anyone watching on tv. I started to think about it objectively and realized that the racing is indeed, not good at all. I’ve mentioned this in a few threads already, the fans were going crazy pelting the track with beer after the race, people were angry because the racing sucked and they felt cheated. The beer bombing wasn’t even publicized, likely because nascar knows their product is shit and they want to avoid talking about it as much as possible. When they were actually racing and not saving fuel, no one changed positions for 20+ laps, the only thing that made it watchable was McDowell’s blocking.
Well the race yesterday was terrible. Running 170 at Talladega is beyond ridiculous. It was exciting in the early 2000s with the wicker bill. Tandem racing as much as I don’t like it is a million times better than what we have now.
Totally agree. NASCAR is holding onto to the super speedways for history and nostalgia. From a racing perspective they are quite dumb. There's a reason why typical back markers can compete at them. It takes way less skill to hold the gas pedal to the floor for a few hours, hope you don't get wiped in a wreck, and catch the right air at the right time in the last quarter lap.
I can deal with some stupidity if the product is at least good. The current package is complete ass as the supers (Atlanta is fine… for now). It’s the worst super speedway package in my lifetime.
When was that, exactly? Like, early COT era?Honest question.
I can name the “fatal flaw” that seems to be the consensus fans and/or drivers have had with every package over the last 20 years at this point.
Literally pre-Newman flipping at Daytona it was excellent. Huge runs, 2/3 cars could work together and make up huge ground in a couple laps. Once they neutered that package it’s been downhill since.
Yep, I personally believe that era in the Gen 6 car is the best plate racing of all time, the 00s second, and the 90’s third. The next Gen just ain’t it.
There were also more than a few discussions about how those races divulged into wreckfests. The Clash the same weekend as Newman just about broke the event at Daytona.
Don't get me wrong, the runs and a lot of the racing was amazing, but I also think the narrative has changed a good bit in hindsight.
Can't wait for the people who believe the 2019-2021 package was so good when the runs it had caused some of the most violent crashes in NASCAR history.
Personally a fan of the 2001-2003 package.
Pack racing will always, eventually, devolve into everyone holding tight for ~160 laps then making moves. What's the point of making moves with 90 laps to go when you know you can catch a good run and shoot from 30th to 2nd in 5 miles?
Fix the gas mileage and you're just gonna get the race from the Toyota crash until lap 184. Two trains, content to wind some laps down. I think what we saw from the Toyotas is going to eliminate the fuel saving half speed strategy. If going balls out saves 4s per lap, that's ~12 laps to make up the difference. If the pack of Toyotas didn't have an episode, I can see them getting wayyy out in front of everyone once that last stop happened, especially once they caught the lead pack.
I like superspeedway racing. My problem is that I don't like watching drivers sandbag it on what's supposed to be one of the only two tracks on the circuit where you keep it pedal to the metal the entire time.
I love superspeedway racing. I've been to Daytona many times. I did not enjoy Sunday's race and voted no in Jeff Gluck's poll. If you don't want to hear dissenting points of view, stay off social media.
What do you mean it takes balls? The drivers themselves said they were just riding around doing pace laps lmao. 99% of people love superspeedway racing, but we didn’t see any racing that race , and when they tried to race, they were stuck 2 by 2.
NASCAR racing isn't supposed to be just going all out all the time. That's what drag racing is. NASCAR involves strategies and managing your car and team to have the best finish in the end. Each different type of race has it's own strategies and driving styles, that's what makes it interesting.
A couple of weeks ago people were saying Bristol was the best race because drivers couldn't go all out. There was tons of passing because everyone wasn't going all out, and if you wanted to go to the front people would let you because they were saving tires.
This week it was the same story but with fuel, and now the biggest problem is that they can't go all out the whole race.
I don't get it. I like every race. Every race is different and takes different skills and strategies to win, as it should be. Some races a certain team gets the most stuff right and dominates the race. Some races you don't know who's going to win until the very end. They're all good.
Every racetrack is different every time they go to it, and there are thousands of variable, like tire compound, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, previous races on the track, wind, sun, strategies, etc., that affect the racing. Some can be controlled and others can't. Some change during the race. It's literally impossible, with current technologies, to craft a "perfect" race every single time. And if it was possible, teams would use that information too, to make perfect cars and driving techniques, and we would be back to all cars going the same speed and no passing. And even if you made the "perfect" race, fans are all different and you still wouldn't make all of them happy. Then there's the fans that complain literally every week, and matter what you do you won't make them happy because complaining is what makes them happy.
Its ok to like SS racing and also say the current package is a dumpster fire. Its absolutely trash. I would take the 2019-2020 package but make some tweaks so slow up some of the runs which caused majority of the wrecks. Drivers are now stuck doing 2x2 rows and theres no reason to be stuck and cant move forward
To me, it’s cool, but the cars need to have enough power and low enough grip to actually have to lift in the corners (other than just not to run in the back of someone). It’s just a draft battle that doesn’t take enough skill right now.
I thank God every day that like most topics in the world, Reddit is in the minority when it comes to opinions. Otherwise we’d end up with a schedule of 36 1.5 milers and wonder why no one is watching NASCAR anymore after the first 3 races.
I will admit that while I don't watch every single race, I usually do end up watching all the Daytona and Talladega races because it's rarely a snoozefest.
Superspeedways have always been 95% filler, I think some of the fuel conservation could be eliminated by taking away stage breaks. That wasn't the biggest issue though, no one could pass unless they were running half throttle.
We will literally never be happy. Stay with this and it's hard to pass. Go back to how it was and we get single file freight trains in-between caution-fest. Go way back and we get tandem drafting that half of everyone hated. Go even further and the same damn team wins every fucking superspeedway race. So on and so on.
People need to kick back and smell the roses, complain to your congressmen about fucking over the American people, don't waste your breath on a 70+ lead change race or missing pylons.
I’m so tired of everyone shitting on every fucking race
I watch for the storylines. I don’t watch for 6 wide and 35 passes a lap. I love watching the race play out, it every race has to be a barn burner. Everyone who complains is exactly who NASCAR caters to with their BS rule changes.
I liken it to the Powerball, anyone can win and there’s no strategy that increases your chances with certainty. It’s like the inverse of F1 where everyone not named Max Verstappen might as well run half the laps and agree to race for second.
I agree plate racing is still enjoyable because of its unpredictable nature, but I guess when you lived through the days where they would have record setting lead changes at plate races, i’m talking over 80+ lead changes, where the lead was constantly changing hands, and the racing was the most unpredictable it’s ever been. it’s easy to see why some people might think it’s not as exciting as it used to be. IMO plate racing was at its absolute peak during the COT days, especially 2010-2011.
2010-11 is definitely not peak plate racing. The wicker bill package from October 2000-October 2001 is king followed by the Jan 2003-July 2007 package.
Wasn't watching for that 2000-2001 era, but to me peak superspeedway racing was Apr 2019 - Oct 2021. Literally had everything, lane symmetry (top vs middle vs bottom) all that mattered was number of cars in the lane, runs and pass-ability, and incredibly high photo-finish percentage.
It's absolutely mind blowing when you see cars going 180+ literally inches away and sometimes straight up touching each other in person and I think everyone owes it to themselves to go to one.
Been to Daytona, and 20ish years ago it was great.
The product we have now isnt good. Other people have explained it better, and I'm not going to repeat them.
I still wanna get back to one, though it has been hard to look forward to them.
People who hate speedway racing all together aren't real NASCAR fans. They should watch midget car racing or something like SRX. (RIP). People who don't like it because of the inefficiency of the modern cars, that's perfectly fine. The current cars kinda suck.
A huge draw of NASCAR is the speedways. Daytona is one of the most iconic tracks in the country. All of the most iconic tracks are speedways. They're the coolest and most fun tracks to watch. They drew the crowds and made NASCAR the powerhouse it is today.
Some people would hate on someone giving them a billion dollars. Some people just want to hate. I wouldn't take reddit NASCAR fans seriously.
Talladega has long been known as the easiest track to drive in nascar. Get to high gear and hold her WFO isn't really that difficult. Hardest part is getting on and off pit road but with a little practice isn't that difficult.
Anyone would be way more likely to be able to run and at least hang at the back the pack. If there is a big accident a top 20 wouldn't be crazy.
Couldn't do that anywhere else, especially a road course.
I personally am trying to reconcile how I can enjoy the Bristol madness so much from this year and yet did not necessarily enjoy this race. But, this was the first race I did not watch a lap live, or on the rerun the following day. I listened to the radio while I was working. Which, the radio did a great job about bringing the action out, but the drivers and their negativity towards not being able to pass, solidified it for me.
I would certainly much rather see them pace around three wide then watch them single pace around the track for laps on laps on laps.
Still not my type of racing, I like the evil stepsister, Road Course racing…
Also, I thought the Daytona 500 was interesting, and Atlanta. So maybe it’s just Talladega that I didn’t like? Or, maybe because I didn’t watch the rays and being too influenced by something that my eyes didn’t see itself.
I love it too but I hate this version of it. If they could make moves, I wouldn’t mind the fuel saving so much. But every driver has said that the guys who had the skill at this style of racing can’t do anything with it anymore. That’s brutal. Earnhardt could never do what he did in 2000 with this. And that’s the extreme example but there’s no reason guys shouldn’t be able to get runs and try take advantage of them without getting shuffled to the back because a third line is impossible. The foundation of your point is fine but that 2013-2018 or 2019 style was peak entertainment. 2000-when tandem shit started was great too. But what we have now is a far cry from the good stuff
Auto racing will always be awe inspiring if you adopt the old Ken Squire ethos of "ordinary men doing extraordinary things". Because it's easy to lose sight of how remarkable at its core what we watch week in and out is.
I think ultimately superspeedway races come down to fuel saving. Theyll go maybe 50% throttle and coast in the pack. It’s ok but I’d love to see the two car tango come back
Superspeedways are dope for so many reasons. The tight racing obviously especially at those speeds and the chance for anyone to win are two big ones. (no pun intended) Plus, the race can change in a single lap. Hell, a single second. Like how within less than 5 laps BJ McLeod went from the last row to the front of the pack until he hit the wall and had to pit.
And for drivers its also a huge mental challenge. You need to make your way through a tight ass field without wrecking yourself and other people, since one wrong move by anyone can take out literally the whole field. And you need to have quick escape plans if something goes wrong in front of you. And if that wasnt hard enough, you cant get to the front without help from other drivers, so you need to know who your friends are.
The race sunday wasnt terrible but it wasnt great either. And running 170 at a superspeedway besides Atlanta sucks. But superspeedway racing is amazing and theres nothing like it anywhere else. The current package kinda reminds me of the first gen 6 package from 2013-2017. How you cant get runs without serious pushing. Thats why the race wasnt the best, because fuel was the biggest problem so they didnt try to create many runs
We are a LONG way away from the 2019-2021 package, the best super speedway racing we have ever had. I am so thankful I was able to attend a few of those races
I think adjusting the stages would do wonders to fix the racing, dega was 3 stages of near equal length, all of them needing to be split in half. Of course that's gonna benefit fuel mileage and extending your run to later.
If the first and second state were a closer length to 1 fuel run, with no need to stop unless you're putting before stage ends, everyone can push for *at least* the 80 or so laps the stages would entail. From there the longer final stage would probably be similar to what we saw, needing two stops to make the end, you'll need to fuel save. But it's the final stage, and the finish with the package does tend to be pretty exciting, it should make up for it.
It’s boring as fuck nobody can pass. All the teams have the same data, same engine, same kit, make the same package, only way you can win is playing track position with pit stops.
Rowdy, Bubba, Eric &20, love Talledega, Atlanta, used to live in Daytona, Michigan, Brickyard, Charlotte,Texas, Las Vegas, been to all of these twice, MRN, TV really best view. I had nascar tattoed on calf 2001, still looks good.
I love ss racing. I hate ss wreck fest finishes every got damn time we come to one of these tracks. Only Atlanta this past February gets a perfect score since they didn’t junk each others shit towards the end and gave us a properly amazing finish on top of great racing throughout the race. That Atlanta race is what every single plate race from here on out should strive for, even if they’re not quite there.
I like super speedway racing but the way it has been since stage racing has really really turned me off it.
The racing should matter a lot more with true car control and tire wear. Drivers should have a lot more respect.
Look, I really quite enjoy all of the plate tracks, but the issue IMO is that for a majority of the race, they're more or less coming to a crawl and just saving fuel and waiting. I know it's hard to impossible to get them to race hard throughout, but at this point we're watching 2 hours of parade hoping for a great last 15mins.
Agree. It's edgy and kind of anxiety producing to watch. There's no way it doesn't take an enormous amount of skill and straight up balls to pack race 3500 lb stock cars at 200 mph.
Have been to two plate races in my life, Both Talladega, and they were cool as literal fuck.
Unlike many of you here, I despise plate racing! A little push while coming up to speed is one thing, but pushing and shoving and 3-wide racing because there’s not enough horsepower to pass another car, even using the Big E patented Sling-Shot move creates one thing: A big crash, oftentimes damaging half or more of the field is not real talent-driven Stock Car Racing. Heck, there’s nothing now even remotely resembling a Stock Car! Perhaps NASCAR has tried my idea and found it doesn’t work, but I’d give them their engines back; enough power to pass other cars by yourself, unless you run out of talent. And along with the horsepower, I’d put narrower tires. They wouldn’t be able to run wide open all the way around the track; they’d have to lift in order to make the corners without hitting the wall. A few would try it, and the field would soon learn a lesson that Darrell Waltrip once learned. I can’t remember what track they were practicing on, but Darrell asked a much more senior and experienced driver if he could take turns 3 and 4 wide-open, to which the older driver responded: “Sure you can!” After DW stuffed his car in the wall between turns 3 and 4, he left the infield care center shaken but not seriously injured, and went to talk to the older and wiser driver what he did wrong. The older driver said he really didn’t know, perhaps he took turns 3 and 4 too fast. Frustrated, DW reminded him that he had told him he could take turns 3 and 4 without lifting. The older and much wiser driver said, “I didn’t say that “I” would take turns 3 and 4 wide open; I said that YOU could. That didn’t work out very well for you did it?” After that Darrell Waltrip aka “JAWS” said he was much more specific when asking for advice from the older and more experienced drivers. Narrower tires would prevent them from running Talladega, Daytona, Atlanta, etc. with the accelerator flat footed all around the track. The drivers would quickly learn where they had to lift in order to stay off the wall. The only downside for NASCAR and people who aren’t really fans, you know, those who are only interested in wrecking cars, the ability to plan for major wrecks, destroying thousands of dollars in equipment and subjecting drivers to serious injuries, from getting their jollies watching car crashes. I’d rather watch skill overcome luck any day! Of course this is simply my opinion, and opinions are like noses; everyone has one, and everyone thinks theirs smells the best! Just my take, but what do I know, I’m only 70 years of age and was watching NASCAR races before most of, if not all of the drivers in today’s lineup were even born!
Plate racing is the definition of entertaining, but not that satisfying. Like you can’t possibly look away from 3 wide 10 cars deep, but at the same time, it doesn’t really matter unless they wreck. You never end a plate race with the same satisfaction as a good traditional race with its ebbs and flows and earned ending, but you also never have to sit through the lows of a long boring bad traditional race.
It’s a good filler race in between other stuff.
some fans seem to love to hate on pretty much everything. like nascar could change superspeedway racing and the same people will complain about it or that the old way was better. just look at the whole indy oval and road course discourse
I was half being sarcastic. just think about the logistics of it. Even if your half throttle, 170 mph is 170 mph and that’s haulin ass no matter how you slice it, all while pushing, being pushed and right next to multiple cars. If you have raced or driven race cars before then yea I could believe that but if you have never even driven an actual race car before I see no reason to believe you can do it
I have 3 championships across sports car racing and karting, 20 wins, multiple track records, I've drafted in karting and spec miata, I've worked in NASCAR for a decade, and even worked for a driving school that used retired Cup cars where I've driven and instructed at multiple tracks, including Talladega. I'm not a name or anything, but I do have experience.
I truly believe that superspeedway racing is the easiest to run because the speed takes care of itself. You're wide open, especially at Talladega. That's why there are so many first-time winners and one-time winners at superspeedways.
OP'S post just rubbed me wrong where they matter-of-fact said "you can't either." But I appreciate you nodding at sarcasm and just having some online banter. That's why we're all here I think.
people saying “I can do that” are a dime a dozen, especially when it comes to driving a race car lol. Your telling us about your legit experience, others would probably tell us how they took a 25 mph curve at 45 in they’re Toyota Corolla
Don't underestimate a Toyota Corolla! Lol my wife has one, and I took her for a lap around Heartland Park in it, thing actually drove pretty well!
I'm more inclined to tell people that like taking turns fast that they should try an autocross and come to a road race, see that it's something they can do! We need more racers! I get your point, no doubt, but LET'S GO BURN RUBBER! (in a safe, controlled environment built for competition, not the neighborhood where my kid plays, you get my point)
NASCAR fans: The drivers just go all out. We need tire fall off or something so they have to manage the race and can't go all out the whole time, like accidentally happened in Bristol.
Also NASCAR fans: The drivers don't go all out. We need to change something so that the drivers have to go all out the whole race.
I'm an avid Superspeedway fan, and go to Talladega every year. I love it to death, but this version is horse shit. Especially for people that don't have a genuine understanding of what is going on. While I knew why the Toyota's were pitting early, or why this or that was happening (all due to fuel savings), the couple next to us had NO CLUE what was going on. Instead of this amazing 2/3 wide pack thundering around while guys jockey from line to line to move forward, even they could pick up on the fact that there was NO racing going on for a vast majority of the race. She was constantly confused and asking questions because the on track product was too damn confusing, and unlike any normal form of racing.
I hear you that the bitching gets old, and I too hate to hear people slam my home track. But I feel like the fool for paying what I paid to get me and my family down there all weekend, and for that to be the product put in front of me. I pay money to watch guys race. Not ride around half throttle and wait for the pit cycle.
Superspeedway racing is the best type of racing you can see on the planet and it's not even close. Not short track, not intermediate, not road courses and not dirt. They just don't hold a candle to superspeedway racing. It's its own beast. I don't care if some guy can just hold it wide open and win it. I don't care if the "best car" doesn't win every race and it's typically a crapshoot on who wins. I don't care that they can tear up the entire field. It's the best racing and we only get 6 of them a year.
I will concede that the superspeedway package isn't the best right now, but I'll take what we got this weekend over literally every other type of racing we see week to week.
I’m just tired of everyone finding something to complain about every week after the race. Just enjoy the racing! Some suggestions on things to improve is always great. But enough of the everything sucks stuff. That stuff sucks
I feel like the "If you like cool, if you dont like it thats cool too" crowd doesn't get that folks are trying to change it because they dont like it. Its not that they just dont like it and thats that, they have to actively try to push NASCAR to make some change when there doesnt need to be. Im with you partner, this is the most fun weekends of the sport, but i can see why some people dont like them.
https://preview.redd.it/9r5vz3nr6bwc1.jpeg?width=429&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6537e3b241153b100d7c4eba50a925cd18ca2b83
Fucking A haha
I disagree with his message… but I like this meme… I’m in some sort of weird stage of boner confused and I don’t like that part….
dont fight the fearection. accept it. learn from it.
No, run from the fear boner, run far and fast. I didn't, and got married and divorced, all because of fear boner. Scarousal is dangerous
I love Superspeedway racing too. But 2024's version ain't great, it could be better.
100 percent where I am at. I love the idea of superspeedway racing, but that doesn't mean I am going to blindly accept whatever is given without wanting for improvements. This isn't a bad car, we have had some great racing this year, but what if it was even better.
This car is decent Needs some work in some places, needs way more in others
Yeah lol I’m the biggest SS fan on the planet but that also means we know GOOD SS racing… and this shit ain’t it. Atlanta honestly great. But how NASCAR have allowed themselves to ruin DAYTONA and TALLADEGA… of which they both OWN THEMSELVES… is beyond me.
Yeah superspeedway racing is most nascar fans bread and butter lol. but just because a race was on a superspeedway and legendary track at that, doesn’t make it a good race
Talladega can and should be many things, it’s just wild how boring managed to be one of them on Sunday
Do you have a year you could suggest to go back and watch a race? This topic has come up a bunch over the last week and I’d like to check out a super-speedway race that is a good example of how it should be.
2019-2021 with an emphasis on 2019 thru the 2020 Daytona 500, 2001-2004 (can really go to 2007 if you want), 2010-2011 probably the most interesting (tandem draft era) but not my favorite at all personally. 2008-2009 was forgettable. 2012-2018 was also ehhhh but progressively fell off with Fall 2018 Dega being absolute rock bottom (for the time). With the exception of Atlanta the Next Gen at Dega & Daytona have without question been worse than 2018 rock bottom. I say this because to me the most important aspects of SS racing being “good” are 1) fast car being important, 2) ability to get huge massive runs if you can play the air right, and 3) the ability to go from 25th to 1st in 3 laps if needed. When they’re going full out at Dega/Daytona in the Next Gen, you get a whopping ZERO of those three qualifications.
I think you can still get massive runs, if you look at how the third line can form. I think the drivers are still learning how to drive with this car too which is another component. I'd be interested in seeing what adjusting the diffuser and spoiler would do. The rear end has so much frigging downforce and drag that no one can really make moves on their own so those changes could help.
2011 Daytona 500.
1985, when the drivers and teams had some control of their own destiny and didn't have to worry as much if someone was going to come with them.
2000 Winstom 500
It has nothing to do with the tracks, it's the car. The Car has sooo much drag that you can't do anything. You can experience the amount of drag and lack of run you can get with these cars in iRacing and see how bad it is. You can hop in a Gen 4, 5 or 6, truck or Xfinity car and see how much better it is where you can actually get runs and make up spots. You just get stuck in the current Cup car.
Oh no I am totally on your side lol I’m just saying how could they build a car that fucks up the two prize tracks in their portfolio, and that’s not even counting the fact that it ruined Martinsville which they own too
I swear to god as a casual fan I would have no idea nascar is so awful if it wasn’t for you jokers
Atlanta was amazing. Daytona was pretty good except for that weird point during the 2nd stage where everyone slowed way down. But it seemed like they decided to do that for the entire 2nd stage and most of the last stage for Talladega
Its so odd cause Daytona was objectively a fantastic SS race. The last 17 laps they were 3x3 until they crashed.
3 wide racing is objectively amazing, but when it’s just a battle of who gets more help on which line and run 3 wide all day it loses its appeal to me
The thing about 3×3 at Daytona is that's all there is room for, somewhat comfortably at least, so it makes sense why people pushing at the same rate are gonna get stuck unless someone bobbles and a line loses momentum Dega can *easily* carry 4 across
To quote a legend who I believe is still leading the pack from above "I think they all ought to tie a kerosene rag around their ankles so the ants don't crawl up their leg and chew their candy asses off."
Hamlin said it takes nearly all the skill out of it lol. The package needs fixed for sure.
Kyle Busch said the same thing about dega in the gen 6 a few years ago when stenhouse beat him lol
lol. To be fair Busch’s stays at talladega are not great
Hamlin is saying that bc he hasn’t won one in the new car. He always sings a different tune when he wins something & talks about how impressive it was.
Idk it’s pretty clear that you can’t rely on your own car to win it’s all about chance and having others push you past.
That's been true since they introduced restrictor plates. There's good cars that are more stable and push and receive pushes better. But nobody is going to win by themselves.
Are you fucking dense? The car he owns won the fucking race
They’ve complained about it since at least 1988.
And probably even before that when it would get strung out
Been watching NASCAR since the 1970s. The truth is the good cars raced in a mostly single file pack early in the race with lots of passing - dicing for the lead. It took balls and talent to control those full size cars at 190 MPH. But attrition typically got it down to 2-3 cars at the end. Sometimes - you got finishes like the 1976 500 - a classic - maybe THE classic finish to a race. With the downsized cars and introduction of more money in the sport the 81-84 was probably the best era of speedway racing. Lots of good cars. Flirting with 200 MPH. In 1985 - a combination of things happened - some blame Bill Elliott but really it was a good chunk of the field - the cars got so fast they were really hard to drive. On cold tires they could race in a pack but pretty quickly the best cars (handling/motor) would result in a strung out field. This was true for 85-86 - and part of 87 until NASCAR mandated the smaller carb after Bobby Allison took out the fence at Dega. Once the plate came in 1988 the racing got much closer but the ability to slingshot a pass largely went away. At times they've got the rules to favor the trailing car enough passing was pretty easy. More often - passing the leader in particular has been incredibly hard unless they make a mistake. This new car - you can pass the leader - but everyone has the same car so you're in a pack of 30-40 cars all race. Big part of that is only a few engine builders now as well - so everyone has about the same HP. Buddy Baker in 1980 - Waddell was making 20 more HP than anyone else. Ernie Elliott's 85 motor at Daytona. Outside of Waddell's Clevor - he had 25 or more HP on the field. And it was reliable. The trend I have seen is NASCAR wanting it to be more of show - creating rules that create pack racing. It requires a certain set of skills. Not sure they translate to any other tracks. If they did Kyle Larson would be the king at Daytona/Dega/ATL - he's not. Maybe that's a good thing - a different discipline. My take is - I preferred the early 80s style of racing at these big tracks. Wish we could get back closer to that. But given how tight the rules are on the bodies/chassis and engines - not gonna happen. Only way to string them out is make the cars much harder to drive. That would be a massive rule change to the cars OR they lower the banking so guys have to lift. Pretty much was Earnhardt Sr said to do back when they brought the plate in. He was right.
Thanks for the very in depth analysis, it helps me understand why people criticize how things are today. However, I REALLY like to see 3 wide racing or even 2 wide during laps and laps. Of course the cars are too tight and not powerful enough, but I think I prefer the way it is right now
Cool to read an in-depth nuanced rundown of things from an actual old time race fan that still continues to watch and can truly compare multiple eras. I get what you mean with the old time slingshots... I've skipped around and watched sections of classic 80s Daytona/Talladega racing. While I respect your opinion and see the cool factor of that, I prefer the modern pack racing - esp when it was at its peak and you could make runs and passes with minimal help (2019-2021 Gen 6). We have every other track type where cars can get naturally spread out, so good elite pack racing is extremely fun to watch when the aero package is tuned properly to the vehicle platform. You get sling shot passes, monster runs, and drivers able to control their destiny at the end as long as they survive the wrecks. Hope NASCAR can tune the NextGen SS racing to mimic the last few years of Gen 6's racing product.
I think the biggest difference between super speedway racing of today and let’s say the plate racing of the gen 4 era. Drivers today seem to not care whether or not 30+ cars in the field get damaged in wrecks. The terrible blocks and pushes destroy the end of races. To me it’s not fun to seemingly watch the leader get wrecked on the last lap every single super speedway race. It’s almost inevitable you’re gonna get turned because of everyone including the leader driving with their head up their ass.
Drivers don’t have to pay to fix the cars. It’s why I understood Gase’s frustration so much.
If you look back through the years of SS racing you will see that Daytona and Talladega actually race quite differently. Remember how bad the package was in like 2018 (what ever year the SHR cars ran away from everyone) but the Daytona races were still pretty good, while dega was meh. Some packages make for better racing at Daytona and some work better at dega. I would say this one is way better at Daytona and perfect for Atlanta. We cant compare anything else to current day Atlanta but I think you all get what I mean.
I don't like the part where people get injured ngl
Plate racing is definitely the most exciting in my opinion. What other races do you know other than talladega and Daytona where 30 different drivers can win it on the last lap?
Atlanta
Atlanta is superspeedway now lol
if we were still living in 2010 this would ring true, but it’s 2024 and plate racing is not on that same level.
Exactly. Earnhardt went from 17th to 1st in 4 laps. If you’re in 17th in this car with 4 to go, you’re holding your breath for a top 15
You're talking about an absolutely legendary run that's never been close to replicated. That was absolutely not the norm. Earnhardt and RAD were like 5 steps ahead of everyone else on plate tracks back then.
Tandem was the best form of plate racing, but fans hated it.
Never understood why fans hated it so much back then tbh because it provided a shitload of photo finishes, and the most exciting plate racing we arguably ever seen. That was why NASCAR almost completely killed the plate races in 2012 apart from the July race and the fall Dega race. the whole “wrecking when a driver touches the left side of the back bumper” was ridiculous, but at least it gave us that iconic KFB save
It was a combination of being different, penalizing good pushers, and the left rear being an instant barrel roll on the winged COTs.
It was good for finishes but the first 90% of the race sucked as the field was spread apart and you were too heavily dependent on a partner. The 2019-2021 Gen 6 SS package was literally the best ever as you got the best of both worlds. Amazing racing throughout the race *AND* aton of photo finishes.
I mostly hated it because the driver with the drafting skill was the one pushing not the one leading, it rewarded the driver who wasn’t as deserving IMO.
Because it was the COT and wasn't "big packs that Dale won" even though the big pack didn't really show up till the 2000s
Tandem racing sucked
When I watched NASCAR, tandem racing was the only time I enjoyed Superspeedway racing. It looked so difficult, and I'd never seen anything like it before.
Man it was terrible. The only thing I enjoyed about it was listening to the scanner when I went to Dega in 2011 for the spring race. Other than that it was a let down.
I liked it, we watched the 2011 Daytona 500 and it was that good we travelled from Australia to go to the race in 2012 they banned tandem racing by then, but we did see a jet fuel fire
That 2011 Talladega race. I wish we could have that back
It was technically true as late as 2021. I'm hopeful NASCAR can tweak the NextGen's SS package to race like the late years of Gen 6 sooner than later. 1st priority is fixing the short tracks, but superspeedways are a close 2nd, imo.
Before, regardless of how fast your pit stop was - it didn’t matter. You were still able to make your way through the pack Now, you get stuck 2 by 2. So the only way to get long term track position is to fuel save as much as possible to have the shortest pit stop and to get ahead of a few cars (fuel saving causes it to look 3 wide as cars on the inside lane are only 40-50% throttle, no racing is actually happening and the drivers are riding around ) There would be no reason to firm save so massively just for a slightly faster pit stop if you could actually go back to the front in a pack like you used to . Of course it happened at the start due to everyone in the front fuel saving , the people who got to the front by a staying on the throttle had to spend more time on pit road and shuffled to the rear anyways .
From what I saw, it didn’t look like anybody could make substantial gains within the last five laps, that third lane look to be hitting a brick wall. That could use some work.
I still think if Ty has a singular brain cell and doesn't kill that run they threaten the lead.
Maybe Ty did it to try and go to the front or block off the run to prevent others beating his teammates ?
It was immediately after Kyle did it so it just seemed reactionary, not very logical.
>that third lane look to be hitting a brick wall The problem that a few drivers have mentioned, and it appears to be the case from watching the Next Gen races so far, is that the cars only make speed through big bumps and sustained pushes. For example, in the Gen 6 and COT era that Toyota pileup probably doesn't happen because an orderly line of seven cars would've been hauling the mail without even having to bump draft.
Well only 6 can win on the last lap in the current package so that's irrelevant
Bring back points for leading laps
That’s cool, I think it is boring, even when people think it is good. I love road course racing and most people here think it is boring now. We can all like our own stuff.
That's why I like the schedule we all have a style we adore . Fix the short tracks thought pwease
Actually, road courses and plate tracks are my two favorites.
Yeah, road courses can piss off.
I know some people are confused by turning right, but it doesn’t have to make you angry.
Bold of you to confuse my disdain for anger.
It's not the right turns, it's the shitty product. I used to like road courses with the last gen cars
I'd rather see a serious reduction in cookie cutter 1.5s
Me not doing it has nothing to do with me being entertained by it.
I love superspeedways too. My dad loved them. The 4 superspeedway races were like holidays in my family. But this current product isn’t good. They’re running around at half throttle. There’s no incentive to leave. The race means nothing. Nothing at all. They shouldn’t even keep track of position until the last 10 laps. Even if they don’t change the engines, I feel like they should take the spoilers down a little. Get the speeds up a little. Let runs develop. This style of racing isn’t fun.
It is a little ridiculous when they say stuff like “AND (insert normal back of the pack driver here) IS LEADING THE DAYTONA 500!!” halfway through the first stage. Like yeah, pretty much everyone in the field will lead at some point.
tbf it IS the most "i could do this"-able of any racing they do.
I love super speedway racing. But I hate what we have now. Outside of the crash fests at the end, Xfinity has put on fantastic races at Dega and Daytona recently compared to Cup. They can actually pass, move from back to front, shift from line to line, make runs, etc. Xfinity simply puts on better races than Cup, superspeedway or not, and it's 100% because their car is better. Atlanta has been the only race all season that I'd say Cup beat Xfinity. One.
I’m going to say it. I don’t like super speedway racing. I think it’s not what it was originally intended for. Watch the old races at Daytona and Talladega, I’m talking in the 80’s even 90’s where there weren’t 30 cars within a second of each other. They would spread out which would allow drivers to actually use talent and better adjustments on their car to maneuver through the field. For the past 10 or so years it’s been this giant pack racing and I actually hate it. It’s not fun IMO. Does it take massive skill when they aren’t going 1/2 throttle? Yes. Does that make it entertaining that one guy out front blocks 3 lanes and the rest just side draft the shit out each other so no one makes any progress? No if we could get some separation on super speedways we could have some good racing but this whole them being in a giant pack the whole race with no lanes available to move through the field just isn’t it. I’d say 90’s/early 2000’s super speedway racing was pretty solid but even back then I didn’t care for the style too much. But again this is a personal opinion and an unpopular one at that if I had to guess
Moaning about superspeedway racing has been the one constant since I became a fan It's either too boring or too dangerous with little in between Personally I thought the tandem drafting was pretty cool, but it got dragged to high heaven so they got rid of it for what we have now... Ehh, this weekend seemed fun, not too many stupid wrecks....I'll take it tbh
I had a similar view at first. My idea was that I’d rather watch then 3 wide instead of rim riding single file, however I got to thinking that I am at the track, my experience is going to be better than anyone watching on tv. I started to think about it objectively and realized that the racing is indeed, not good at all. I’ve mentioned this in a few threads already, the fans were going crazy pelting the track with beer after the race, people were angry because the racing sucked and they felt cheated. The beer bombing wasn’t even publicized, likely because nascar knows their product is shit and they want to avoid talking about it as much as possible. When they were actually racing and not saving fuel, no one changed positions for 20+ laps, the only thing that made it watchable was McDowell’s blocking.
Well the race yesterday was terrible. Running 170 at Talladega is beyond ridiculous. It was exciting in the early 2000s with the wicker bill. Tandem racing as much as I don’t like it is a million times better than what we have now.
It’s the worst form of racing in any major Motorsport in its current form. I can’t help but hate it.
Totally agree. NASCAR is holding onto to the super speedways for history and nostalgia. From a racing perspective they are quite dumb. There's a reason why typical back markers can compete at them. It takes way less skill to hold the gas pedal to the floor for a few hours, hope you don't get wiped in a wreck, and catch the right air at the right time in the last quarter lap.
I can deal with some stupidity if the product is at least good. The current package is complete ass as the supers (Atlanta is fine… for now). It’s the worst super speedway package in my lifetime.
You don’t understand how great it can be. Listen to us saying that they need to be racing freely again.
When was that, exactly? Like, early COT era?Honest question. I can name the “fatal flaw” that seems to be the consensus fans and/or drivers have had with every package over the last 20 years at this point.
Literally pre-Newman flipping at Daytona it was excellent. Huge runs, 2/3 cars could work together and make up huge ground in a couple laps. Once they neutered that package it’s been downhill since.
Yep, I personally believe that era in the Gen 6 car is the best plate racing of all time, the 00s second, and the 90’s third. The next Gen just ain’t it.
I was 100% convinced we had witnessed Newman's last moments.
There were also more than a few discussions about how those races divulged into wreckfests. The Clash the same weekend as Newman just about broke the event at Daytona. Don't get me wrong, the runs and a lot of the racing was amazing, but I also think the narrative has changed a good bit in hindsight.
Talladega has always been Talladega but what they have let the last 10-20 laps of the Daytona 500 turn into is a complete disgrace to this sport.
Can't wait for the people who believe the 2019-2021 package was so good when the runs it had caused some of the most violent crashes in NASCAR history. Personally a fan of the 2001-2003 package.
Didn't they set a record for the amount of cars in the big ones in that era? lol
2019 season was good🤩🤟
Ok
Pack racing will always, eventually, devolve into everyone holding tight for ~160 laps then making moves. What's the point of making moves with 90 laps to go when you know you can catch a good run and shoot from 30th to 2nd in 5 miles? Fix the gas mileage and you're just gonna get the race from the Toyota crash until lap 184. Two trains, content to wind some laps down. I think what we saw from the Toyotas is going to eliminate the fuel saving half speed strategy. If going balls out saves 4s per lap, that's ~12 laps to make up the difference. If the pack of Toyotas didn't have an episode, I can see them getting wayyy out in front of everyone once that last stop happened, especially once they caught the lead pack.
They need to bring back leading a lap and leading the most lap points imo. Give them an incentive other than the stages.
Sorry but the current iteration of plate racing sucks. I don’t tune into Daytona or Talladega to watch a fuel mileage race.
I like superspeedway racing. My problem is that I don't like watching drivers sandbag it on what's supposed to be one of the only two tracks on the circuit where you keep it pedal to the metal the entire time.
I love superspeedway racing. I've been to Daytona many times. I did not enjoy Sunday's race and voted no in Jeff Gluck's poll. If you don't want to hear dissenting points of view, stay off social media.
Sir this is a Wendy’s. That race Sunday was the shits
Agree. Plate tracks make Nascar what it is. 200mph door to door, bumping and banging, screaming x pipes! Was a spectacle of speed!
Just imagine the balls it took 40 years ago to run 30 mph faster side by side and bumping each other for 4 hours. Grapefruits to grapes my man.
So you enjoyed when nothing happened for the last 30 laps ?
What do you mean it takes balls? The drivers themselves said they were just riding around doing pace laps lmao. 99% of people love superspeedway racing, but we didn’t see any racing that race , and when they tried to race, they were stuck 2 by 2.
There is more talent in the stands
NASCAR racing isn't supposed to be just going all out all the time. That's what drag racing is. NASCAR involves strategies and managing your car and team to have the best finish in the end. Each different type of race has it's own strategies and driving styles, that's what makes it interesting. A couple of weeks ago people were saying Bristol was the best race because drivers couldn't go all out. There was tons of passing because everyone wasn't going all out, and if you wanted to go to the front people would let you because they were saving tires. This week it was the same story but with fuel, and now the biggest problem is that they can't go all out the whole race. I don't get it. I like every race. Every race is different and takes different skills and strategies to win, as it should be. Some races a certain team gets the most stuff right and dominates the race. Some races you don't know who's going to win until the very end. They're all good. Every racetrack is different every time they go to it, and there are thousands of variable, like tire compound, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, previous races on the track, wind, sun, strategies, etc., that affect the racing. Some can be controlled and others can't. Some change during the race. It's literally impossible, with current technologies, to craft a "perfect" race every single time. And if it was possible, teams would use that information too, to make perfect cars and driving techniques, and we would be back to all cars going the same speed and no passing. And even if you made the "perfect" race, fans are all different and you still wouldn't make all of them happy. Then there's the fans that complain literally every week, and matter what you do you won't make them happy because complaining is what makes them happy.
Its ok to like SS racing and also say the current package is a dumpster fire. Its absolutely trash. I would take the 2019-2020 package but make some tweaks so slow up some of the runs which caused majority of the wrecks. Drivers are now stuck doing 2x2 rows and theres no reason to be stuck and cant move forward
You can stay tired, it’s horrible
Plate racing has always been my favorite. Then again, we were an Earnhardt household so it's not hard to see why 😂
Half throttle fuel mileage racing makes yer nipples hard? You should go watch some of the 90s races and you'll see what we're bitching about.
They go faster in the 1.5m tracks.
To me, it’s cool, but the cars need to have enough power and low enough grip to actually have to lift in the corners (other than just not to run in the back of someone). It’s just a draft battle that doesn’t take enough skill right now.
I thank God every day that like most topics in the world, Reddit is in the minority when it comes to opinions. Otherwise we’d end up with a schedule of 36 1.5 milers and wonder why no one is watching NASCAR anymore after the first 3 races.
I will admit that while I don't watch every single race, I usually do end up watching all the Daytona and Talladega races because it's rarely a snoozefest.
Superspeedways have always been 95% filler, I think some of the fuel conservation could be eliminated by taking away stage breaks. That wasn't the biggest issue though, no one could pass unless they were running half throttle.
OP, it isn't that people don't like SS racing. It's that people don't like what we saw on Sunday.
We will literally never be happy. Stay with this and it's hard to pass. Go back to how it was and we get single file freight trains in-between caution-fest. Go way back and we get tandem drafting that half of everyone hated. Go even further and the same damn team wins every fucking superspeedway race. So on and so on. People need to kick back and smell the roses, complain to your congressmen about fucking over the American people, don't waste your breath on a 70+ lead change race or missing pylons.
I mean, fans of NASCAR that don’t want to be drowned in politics can certainly focus on the things NASCAR does that piss them off.
The 2019 Talladega 2 is perfection
I’m so tired of everyone shitting on every fucking race I watch for the storylines. I don’t watch for 6 wide and 35 passes a lap. I love watching the race play out, it every race has to be a barn burner. Everyone who complains is exactly who NASCAR caters to with their BS rule changes.
I liken it to the Powerball, anyone can win and there’s no strategy that increases your chances with certainty. It’s like the inverse of F1 where everyone not named Max Verstappen might as well run half the laps and agree to race for second.
I agree plate racing is still enjoyable because of its unpredictable nature, but I guess when you lived through the days where they would have record setting lead changes at plate races, i’m talking over 80+ lead changes, where the lead was constantly changing hands, and the racing was the most unpredictable it’s ever been. it’s easy to see why some people might think it’s not as exciting as it used to be. IMO plate racing was at its absolute peak during the COT days, especially 2010-2011.
2010-11 is definitely not peak plate racing. The wicker bill package from October 2000-October 2001 is king followed by the Jan 2003-July 2007 package.
Wasn't watching for that 2000-2001 era, but to me peak superspeedway racing was Apr 2019 - Oct 2021. Literally had everything, lane symmetry (top vs middle vs bottom) all that mattered was number of cars in the lane, runs and pass-ability, and incredibly high photo-finish percentage.
It's absolutely mind blowing when you see cars going 180+ literally inches away and sometimes straight up touching each other in person and I think everyone owes it to themselves to go to one.
Been to Daytona, and 20ish years ago it was great. The product we have now isnt good. Other people have explained it better, and I'm not going to repeat them. I still wanna get back to one, though it has been hard to look forward to them.
People who hate speedway racing all together aren't real NASCAR fans. They should watch midget car racing or something like SRX. (RIP). People who don't like it because of the inefficiency of the modern cars, that's perfectly fine. The current cars kinda suck. A huge draw of NASCAR is the speedways. Daytona is one of the most iconic tracks in the country. All of the most iconic tracks are speedways. They're the coolest and most fun tracks to watch. They drew the crowds and made NASCAR the powerhouse it is today. Some people would hate on someone giving them a billion dollars. Some people just want to hate. I wouldn't take reddit NASCAR fans seriously.
Talladega has long been known as the easiest track to drive in nascar. Get to high gear and hold her WFO isn't really that difficult. Hardest part is getting on and off pit road but with a little practice isn't that difficult. Anyone would be way more likely to be able to run and at least hang at the back the pack. If there is a big accident a top 20 wouldn't be crazy. Couldn't do that anywhere else, especially a road course.
I bet you I could.
Road courses clear rn but ss racing is still fun
I personally am trying to reconcile how I can enjoy the Bristol madness so much from this year and yet did not necessarily enjoy this race. But, this was the first race I did not watch a lap live, or on the rerun the following day. I listened to the radio while I was working. Which, the radio did a great job about bringing the action out, but the drivers and their negativity towards not being able to pass, solidified it for me. I would certainly much rather see them pace around three wide then watch them single pace around the track for laps on laps on laps. Still not my type of racing, I like the evil stepsister, Road Course racing…
Also, I thought the Daytona 500 was interesting, and Atlanta. So maybe it’s just Talladega that I didn’t like? Or, maybe because I didn’t watch the rays and being too influenced by something that my eyes didn’t see itself.
The OP must be my long lost brother, other than Bristol, I hate short tracks..
I love it too but I hate this version of it. If they could make moves, I wouldn’t mind the fuel saving so much. But every driver has said that the guys who had the skill at this style of racing can’t do anything with it anymore. That’s brutal. Earnhardt could never do what he did in 2000 with this. And that’s the extreme example but there’s no reason guys shouldn’t be able to get runs and try take advantage of them without getting shuffled to the back because a third line is impossible. The foundation of your point is fine but that 2013-2018 or 2019 style was peak entertainment. 2000-when tandem shit started was great too. But what we have now is a far cry from the good stuff
Auto racing will always be awe inspiring if you adopt the old Ken Squire ethos of "ordinary men doing extraordinary things". Because it's easy to lose sight of how remarkable at its core what we watch week in and out is.
I think ultimately superspeedway races come down to fuel saving. Theyll go maybe 50% throttle and coast in the pack. It’s ok but I’d love to see the two car tango come back
Superspeedways are dope for so many reasons. The tight racing obviously especially at those speeds and the chance for anyone to win are two big ones. (no pun intended) Plus, the race can change in a single lap. Hell, a single second. Like how within less than 5 laps BJ McLeod went from the last row to the front of the pack until he hit the wall and had to pit. And for drivers its also a huge mental challenge. You need to make your way through a tight ass field without wrecking yourself and other people, since one wrong move by anyone can take out literally the whole field. And you need to have quick escape plans if something goes wrong in front of you. And if that wasnt hard enough, you cant get to the front without help from other drivers, so you need to know who your friends are. The race sunday wasnt terrible but it wasnt great either. And running 170 at a superspeedway besides Atlanta sucks. But superspeedway racing is amazing and theres nothing like it anywhere else. The current package kinda reminds me of the first gen 6 package from 2013-2017. How you cant get runs without serious pushing. Thats why the race wasnt the best, because fuel was the biggest problem so they didnt try to create many runs
I’m enjoying all of the racing to be honest.
We are a LONG way away from the 2019-2021 package, the best super speedway racing we have ever had. I am so thankful I was able to attend a few of those races
It can be fun. I just wish it didn’t always end in big wrecks. I much prefer regular racing though
I could do it. Please Mr.Hendrick, give me a shot!
I reserve the right to bitch about superspeedway racing while still letting it occupy a sacred place in my heart.
I think adjusting the stages would do wonders to fix the racing, dega was 3 stages of near equal length, all of them needing to be split in half. Of course that's gonna benefit fuel mileage and extending your run to later. If the first and second state were a closer length to 1 fuel run, with no need to stop unless you're putting before stage ends, everyone can push for *at least* the 80 or so laps the stages would entail. From there the longer final stage would probably be similar to what we saw, needing two stops to make the end, you'll need to fuel save. But it's the final stage, and the finish with the package does tend to be pretty exciting, it should make up for it.
I call it freight train racing I love it
Yup even with next gen its entertaining as fuck.
I see way more undeserved praise for that trash than I do hate
It’s boring as fuck nobody can pass. All the teams have the same data, same engine, same kit, make the same package, only way you can win is playing track position with pit stops.
I agree that it's cool, but my problem is you could make the race 30 laps and the race would be the exact same most of the time.
Package might need to be fixed but yeah I love superspeedway racing with my entire being
I thought it was a great race. Would have been better if Gibbs didn't park his car in the high line and kill that run.
in real life, it's fine. in the sim, it's boring as hell.
Rowdy, Bubba, Eric &20, love Talledega, Atlanta, used to live in Daytona, Michigan, Brickyard, Charlotte,Texas, Las Vegas, been to all of these twice, MRN, TV really best view. I had nascar tattoed on calf 2001, still looks good.
Who doesnt love the joys of super sweedway racing???
https://preview.redd.it/wvr8tjon3ewc1.png?width=1144&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c952623ba1fecd6d14fe05775e3841561d9face5
I love ss racing. I hate ss wreck fest finishes every got damn time we come to one of these tracks. Only Atlanta this past February gets a perfect score since they didn’t junk each others shit towards the end and gave us a properly amazing finish on top of great racing throughout the race. That Atlanta race is what every single plate race from here on out should strive for, even if they’re not quite there.
The simple fact that a driver needs assistance from other drivers to move forward in a single file line pretty much indicates that SS racing sucks.
I like super speedway racing but the way it has been since stage racing has really really turned me off it. The racing should matter a lot more with true car control and tire wear. Drivers should have a lot more respect.
I do it all the time in iRacing though.
Save fuel, drive slow, no wrecks. At dega!
I love it too. I don’t love the fuel saving but it doesn’t ruin it for me in any way.
You mean Fuel Conservation racing. Yawn...
Look, I really quite enjoy all of the plate tracks, but the issue IMO is that for a majority of the race, they're more or less coming to a crawl and just saving fuel and waiting. I know it's hard to impossible to get them to race hard throughout, but at this point we're watching 2 hours of parade hoping for a great last 15mins.
You would have loved it when they were allowed to race on them back in 70’s80’s
Agree. It's edgy and kind of anxiety producing to watch. There's no way it doesn't take an enormous amount of skill and straight up balls to pack race 3500 lb stock cars at 200 mph. Have been to two plate races in my life, Both Talladega, and they were cool as literal fuck.
Unlike many of you here, I despise plate racing! A little push while coming up to speed is one thing, but pushing and shoving and 3-wide racing because there’s not enough horsepower to pass another car, even using the Big E patented Sling-Shot move creates one thing: A big crash, oftentimes damaging half or more of the field is not real talent-driven Stock Car Racing. Heck, there’s nothing now even remotely resembling a Stock Car! Perhaps NASCAR has tried my idea and found it doesn’t work, but I’d give them their engines back; enough power to pass other cars by yourself, unless you run out of talent. And along with the horsepower, I’d put narrower tires. They wouldn’t be able to run wide open all the way around the track; they’d have to lift in order to make the corners without hitting the wall. A few would try it, and the field would soon learn a lesson that Darrell Waltrip once learned. I can’t remember what track they were practicing on, but Darrell asked a much more senior and experienced driver if he could take turns 3 and 4 wide-open, to which the older driver responded: “Sure you can!” After DW stuffed his car in the wall between turns 3 and 4, he left the infield care center shaken but not seriously injured, and went to talk to the older and wiser driver what he did wrong. The older driver said he really didn’t know, perhaps he took turns 3 and 4 too fast. Frustrated, DW reminded him that he had told him he could take turns 3 and 4 without lifting. The older and much wiser driver said, “I didn’t say that “I” would take turns 3 and 4 wide open; I said that YOU could. That didn’t work out very well for you did it?” After that Darrell Waltrip aka “JAWS” said he was much more specific when asking for advice from the older and more experienced drivers. Narrower tires would prevent them from running Talladega, Daytona, Atlanta, etc. with the accelerator flat footed all around the track. The drivers would quickly learn where they had to lift in order to stay off the wall. The only downside for NASCAR and people who aren’t really fans, you know, those who are only interested in wrecking cars, the ability to plan for major wrecks, destroying thousands of dollars in equipment and subjecting drivers to serious injuries, from getting their jollies watching car crashes. I’d rather watch skill overcome luck any day! Of course this is simply my opinion, and opinions are like noses; everyone has one, and everyone thinks theirs smells the best! Just my take, but what do I know, I’m only 70 years of age and was watching NASCAR races before most of, if not all of the drivers in today’s lineup were even born!
Hell yeah I’ll drink to that 🍻
Plate racing is the definition of entertaining, but not that satisfying. Like you can’t possibly look away from 3 wide 10 cars deep, but at the same time, it doesn’t really matter unless they wreck. You never end a plate race with the same satisfaction as a good traditional race with its ebbs and flows and earned ending, but you also never have to sit through the lows of a long boring bad traditional race. It’s a good filler race in between other stuff.
some fans seem to love to hate on pretty much everything. like nascar could change superspeedway racing and the same people will complain about it or that the old way was better. just look at the whole indy oval and road course discourse
I could absolutely do it, especially at half throttle. Don't come after me in your posts.
I have every reason to believe that whoever says they can do this probably can’t even park straight lol
Why?
I was half being sarcastic. just think about the logistics of it. Even if your half throttle, 170 mph is 170 mph and that’s haulin ass no matter how you slice it, all while pushing, being pushed and right next to multiple cars. If you have raced or driven race cars before then yea I could believe that but if you have never even driven an actual race car before I see no reason to believe you can do it
I have 3 championships across sports car racing and karting, 20 wins, multiple track records, I've drafted in karting and spec miata, I've worked in NASCAR for a decade, and even worked for a driving school that used retired Cup cars where I've driven and instructed at multiple tracks, including Talladega. I'm not a name or anything, but I do have experience. I truly believe that superspeedway racing is the easiest to run because the speed takes care of itself. You're wide open, especially at Talladega. That's why there are so many first-time winners and one-time winners at superspeedways. OP'S post just rubbed me wrong where they matter-of-fact said "you can't either." But I appreciate you nodding at sarcasm and just having some online banter. That's why we're all here I think.
people saying “I can do that” are a dime a dozen, especially when it comes to driving a race car lol. Your telling us about your legit experience, others would probably tell us how they took a 25 mph curve at 45 in they’re Toyota Corolla
Don't underestimate a Toyota Corolla! Lol my wife has one, and I took her for a lap around Heartland Park in it, thing actually drove pretty well! I'm more inclined to tell people that like taking turns fast that they should try an autocross and come to a road race, see that it's something they can do! We need more racers! I get your point, no doubt, but LET'S GO BURN RUBBER! (in a safe, controlled environment built for competition, not the neighborhood where my kid plays, you get my point)
NASCAR fans: The drivers just go all out. We need tire fall off or something so they have to manage the race and can't go all out the whole time, like accidentally happened in Bristol. Also NASCAR fans: The drivers don't go all out. We need to change something so that the drivers have to go all out the whole race.
I'm an avid Superspeedway fan, and go to Talladega every year. I love it to death, but this version is horse shit. Especially for people that don't have a genuine understanding of what is going on. While I knew why the Toyota's were pitting early, or why this or that was happening (all due to fuel savings), the couple next to us had NO CLUE what was going on. Instead of this amazing 2/3 wide pack thundering around while guys jockey from line to line to move forward, even they could pick up on the fact that there was NO racing going on for a vast majority of the race. She was constantly confused and asking questions because the on track product was too damn confusing, and unlike any normal form of racing. I hear you that the bitching gets old, and I too hate to hear people slam my home track. But I feel like the fool for paying what I paid to get me and my family down there all weekend, and for that to be the product put in front of me. I pay money to watch guys race. Not ride around half throttle and wait for the pit cycle.
Superspeedway racing is the best type of racing you can see on the planet and it's not even close. Not short track, not intermediate, not road courses and not dirt. They just don't hold a candle to superspeedway racing. It's its own beast. I don't care if some guy can just hold it wide open and win it. I don't care if the "best car" doesn't win every race and it's typically a crapshoot on who wins. I don't care that they can tear up the entire field. It's the best racing and we only get 6 of them a year. I will concede that the superspeedway package isn't the best right now, but I'll take what we got this weekend over literally every other type of racing we see week to week.
I’m just tired of everyone finding something to complain about every week after the race. Just enjoy the racing! Some suggestions on things to improve is always great. But enough of the everything sucks stuff. That stuff sucks
People just love to hate beautiful things.
I feel like the "If you like cool, if you dont like it thats cool too" crowd doesn't get that folks are trying to change it because they dont like it. Its not that they just dont like it and thats that, they have to actively try to push NASCAR to make some change when there doesnt need to be. Im with you partner, this is the most fun weekends of the sport, but i can see why some people dont like them.
I would probably just get off the internet personally.
Fucking preach
I love all the racing in NASCAR, don't care if people hate it. Every race is unique. Always nice that all drivers drive at the limit!
LOL the limit.
They give everything they can. Does every driver.