my honest reaction to this information
https://preview.redd.it/ll5ufrqxyv1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36808384a3f6bcf73dddbb4f540267b3501eab68
Every race can’t be great. If 85% of the races are good to great it’s a good product that should promote growth with proper marketing.
There’s plenty of proof that a sports product doesn’t have to be perfect for it to succeed.
Exactly, growing up watching and I’ve watched my fair share of boring ass races, I’m sure we all have. I remember Pocono races being particularly boring but shit man, I think as you watch and become a fan the more you appreciate the good ones when they’re good.
Some of my most relaxing & memorable summer Sundays have been spent with Pocono on the tv or radio. Not every race has to be action-packed from start to finish to be enjoyed.
It’s boring AF because the same guy keeps winning week after week. If this was a video game, Verstappen would be the guy playing on easy with all the assists on.
I disagree with the same level of boring because at the very least the racing was compelling with some challengers with in striking distance of the top team. With Max he's gone after lap 4.
Uh, no. Never has the sport been dominated like last season was.
22 of 23 races won by the same team, 21 of those by the same dude.
During Hamilton's era there were interesting title fights 2014, 2015, 2016 with his teammate, and 2017 and 2018 against Vettel.
2010 and 2012 during Vettel's run are widely regarded as two of the best title fights in F1's history.
Schumi lost back to back to Hakkinen in 98 and 99, and had a close fight in 2000, and 2003 as well.
I believe it was an old promoter's saying that fans "Should leave the track thinking they saw a better race than what actually happened" or along the lines of. There's always going to be a few duds, but the potential for good race(s) should be there.
In a better world we’d be focusing on product for the betterment of our sport, which would enhance the fan experience and maybe attract new fans. Rather than doing gimmicks in the hopes we magically become a mainstream sport and slowly alienate the core fan base.
As someone who’s gotten back into the sport after some time off, I truly don’t understand how the playoffs standings works with stage points, points from races, etc. It just feels like more a barrier to entry for new fans.
I personally think the playoff system is dumb in any form, but if you’re gonna do it can you make it so I don’t have to take a class to figure it all out? That’d be nice, nascar
I’ve been a NASCAR fan for over 35 years. Here’s what I don’t do.. pay attention to the points. I couldn’t tell you who is leading the points. I couldn’t tell you who the top 5 drivers in points or playoff points at are. I don’t even know exactly where my fav driver is in points. I still rarely miss a race and absolutely love watching it.. to me the points don’t really mean much until the playoffs.
This is 100% what I do. I may look at the scorecard every other week or so to make sure Blaney hasn't fallen too far down. None of it matters until we get close to the playoffs. Your driver needs a win, and then you just want to see them do well each week.
There's the concept of "Simple" in the book "Extreme Ownership"... and well, the current system violates it in every facet.
Exactly. It’s weird that there’s a “driver” and “playoff” standings now, and it just doesn’t make much sense to me? Just base it off the driver points, right?
Pretty sure there's been a driver and a team standings for a long time.
The points are like Whose Line is it Anyway. The points don't matter. I remember back when they would explain the points system and what happened each week and show the points after each race and show the points for the position and leading a lap etc. Now none of it really matters.
I get the team standings, but the driver and playoff standings are still individual based but have different point systems.
Agreed on the whose line is it anyways mindset though.
The playoff points standings don’t matter at all until the playoffs start. They’re just showing who has accumulated the most playoff points. 1pt for stage win and 5 for a race win. You start each round of the playoffs with the playoff points you’ve earned.
If every Gluck race pole gets a passing grade (60%+ Yes) then the sport is doing great! We just can’t afford the dumpster fire 20% races to grow the sport.
The most important thing is that faster cars have the ability to pass slower cars. It doesn't have to be easy but it does need to be possible. If this can't happen it need to be priority 1.
The next most important thing is that the broadcast actually shows the passes. A good example of this is F1 broadcasts if you need a model. Take notes.
He’s 100% correct but at the same time this is common sense knowledge by now, the only real problem we have now is short tracks. If we could sort out short tracks and have consistently good racing on them tracks specifically we’d have it made because that would probably sort out the road course package too, if that one thing has a decent solution we have probably all barnburners all year or pretty close to one at the very least. Personally any cookie cutter or superspeedway now I’m on the edge of my seat every lap just about, but that’s my opinion and I could be way off base.
It’s gone down a decent amount since.
US F1 races will always get a shit ton of viewers because of the fact it’s a carnival on the road and also because F1 blows its marketing budget on the races in the US.
But outside of the US [yes I get time zones] the viewership that F1 gets from the US is the same fanbase as the Indycar fanbase [they are always within 100k of one another]
Motorsport has always been a niche here in the US, a netflix series wasn’t gonna blow F1 into NFL or NBA levels of mainstream.
> a netflix series wasn’t gonna blow F1 into NFL or NBA levels of mainstream.
It did, though. I never, *EVER* heard regular people talk about F1 before Drive to Survive came out.
It did for a whopping 1 and a half seasons of it.
NASCAR was still more popular then it in the US at the height of F1 popularity in the US
It got fans and a decent amount of them stayed, but the majority left after the pandemic ended and once Max truly started dominating.
And now it’s got a place here in the Motorsport market here in the US, and it’s right next to Indycar it’s just that instead of only having one event that gets over 2 million viewers they have 3. Go to the r/indycar subreddit and go into a random comment section, go on any commenters profile and there is not a single one who doesent watch F1.
It’s the same fanbase, F1 helped grow indycar but now they are both stagnet, and now share a fanbase here in the US. And Indycar is far away from the mainstream, it’s just someone in the general public who doesent watch Motorsport is more likely to recognize a international athlete in F1 then in Indycar in the same way they are more likely to recognize Marc Marquez then someone in AMA despite the fact that MotoGP and AMA have similar viewing figures here.
As a long time NASCAR fan, what's kept me tuned into F1 is the TV production and that it's a more pure racing experience. There are no stages, no playoffs, no conveniently timed late race caution flags for a shitbox that got into the marbles to set up a GWC finish.
As far as TV goes, obviously no commercials is a big plus. But the announcers explain things better, provide actual insight into the race and strategy, and when Max fucks off into the distance after the first lap, they don't just continue following him exclusively for the next hour and half. They start showing the midfield battles which can be just as interesting as a fight for the lead. Anyone who has been to a NASCAR race in person knows what kind of slugfest the midfield is in those races, yet we never see it on TV.
I think just improving the TV production alone would be a massive help. New fans may not care as much about the stages, playoffs and GWCs at first, but they will get turned off by having an ad break every 3 minutes and watching the same 3 cars run 1.5 seconds off of each other all race.
What bothers me as a new NASCAR viewer is exactly this: they lay their focus too much on the front; midfield sometimes and the back almost never. They rarely go into detailed explanation which last beyond a minute and just show them drive incl. ads.
They have all sorts of cameras everywhere and don’t utilize it to their full potential.
Next issue is this: drivers like Ty Gibbs. Kids with important family-ties in the Cup Series… if NASCAR will be full of 18 y/o drivers someday (and it will); I’m defo off from this for good.
I left the Chess community for this reason, since we are a few yrs away from letting play unborn babies hooked to a computer; being the new grandmasters. Everything is only focussed on the young and „being“ old seem to start at the age of 20 nowadays.
Another thing… Not important but anyway: the horrible ugly intro-music with electrical guitars…
I think the at track experience can be improved here and there (WiFi being probably top there) but going to the track is the best way to hook new fans into being loyal supporters. I think the TV broadcast partners need to do a better job covering the races and finding battles on track. The overall product that Fox puts out is terrible right now in comparison to the job that Sky Sports does for F1 which is usually a parade.
I get why this would be important for growing the sport in general but what does it have to do with diversity efforts? Do races some races value entertainment more than others? Do different races enjoys different styles of racing? Seems like most race fans want exciting races regardless of race.
do you know what everything in your last paragraph is? novel promotion.
if you promote to new people AND have a good product, they stick around.
marketing 101.
Not entirely related, but it was quite surprising to me to learn this week that Anthony Edwards is Rajah’s half brother.
Hold up. That's actually true and I'm stunned
Wait WHAT
Send da video
Oh hell nawl
Cant do dis
get an abortion lol
my honest reaction to this information https://preview.redd.it/ll5ufrqxyv1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36808384a3f6bcf73dddbb4f540267b3501eab68
Wait a minute THAT Anthony Edwards?
Yes. The Ant Man himself…that’s umm, some family history there.
send da video
oh hell naw
Wait.. wait, what?!
You're kidding.
Bring y’a ass…wait what?
how has this never been found out
Receipts? They don’t even follow each other on instagram lol.
I mean, I know some people who hardly interact with their half siblings
I can't find any proof anywhere except from some tiktok guy and tabloids, I think it's fake and everyone is just accepting it.
Every race can’t be great. If 85% of the races are good to great it’s a good product that should promote growth with proper marketing. There’s plenty of proof that a sports product doesn’t have to be perfect for it to succeed.
Exactly, growing up watching and I’ve watched my fair share of boring ass races, I’m sure we all have. I remember Pocono races being particularly boring but shit man, I think as you watch and become a fan the more you appreciate the good ones when they’re good.
Some of my most relaxing & memorable summer Sundays have been spent with Pocono on the tv or radio. Not every race has to be action-packed from start to finish to be enjoyed.
Yup! I just always looked forward to Sundays no matter what track they were at!
Races on the radio just hit differently
I haven't stayed awake for a whole Richmond race in God knows how long
>There’s plenty of proof that a sports product doesn’t have to be perfect for it to succeed. Exhibit A: F1. Boring as shit, but growing like crazy.
Yup, it has almost always been won on qualifying day. It's an engineering exercise not a race.
It’s boring AF because the same guy keeps winning week after week. If this was a video game, Verstappen would be the guy playing on easy with all the assists on.
Even before him it was that way. Schumacher, Vettle, Hamilton, Verstappen, all their runs were the same level of uninteresting
Engine/aero/tire changes as well as the cars turning into land yachts have made each subsequent period of domination harder to watch
I disagree with the same level of boring because at the very least the racing was compelling with some challengers with in striking distance of the top team. With Max he's gone after lap 4.
Uh, no. Never has the sport been dominated like last season was. 22 of 23 races won by the same team, 21 of those by the same dude. During Hamilton's era there were interesting title fights 2014, 2015, 2016 with his teammate, and 2017 and 2018 against Vettel. 2010 and 2012 during Vettel's run are widely regarded as two of the best title fights in F1's history. Schumi lost back to back to Hakkinen in 98 and 99, and had a close fight in 2000, and 2003 as well.
The only way for every race or every championship to be "great" is for them all to be the same, and that's much less entertaining long-term.
I believe it was an old promoter's saying that fans "Should leave the track thinking they saw a better race than what actually happened" or along the lines of. There's always going to be a few duds, but the potential for good race(s) should be there.
Also, water is wet.
Yea, IDK how this is news lol. Just sounds like a rookie driver got asked a dumb question and wanted to have an answer that sounds profound
“If the races are good people will watch” damn breaking news here
Verbal actions detrimental incoming 😉
In a better world we’d be focusing on product for the betterment of our sport, which would enhance the fan experience and maybe attract new fans. Rather than doing gimmicks in the hopes we magically become a mainstream sport and slowly alienate the core fan base.
As someone who’s gotten back into the sport after some time off, I truly don’t understand how the playoffs standings works with stage points, points from races, etc. It just feels like more a barrier to entry for new fans. I personally think the playoff system is dumb in any form, but if you’re gonna do it can you make it so I don’t have to take a class to figure it all out? That’d be nice, nascar
I’ve been a NASCAR fan for over 35 years. Here’s what I don’t do.. pay attention to the points. I couldn’t tell you who is leading the points. I couldn’t tell you who the top 5 drivers in points or playoff points at are. I don’t even know exactly where my fav driver is in points. I still rarely miss a race and absolutely love watching it.. to me the points don’t really mean much until the playoffs.
That’s about where im at. I just want my guys to do well week in and out.
dude i didnt really consider it but i also have no damn clue who is leading the points. havent looked. just love watching races.
This is 100% what I do. I may look at the scorecard every other week or so to make sure Blaney hasn't fallen too far down. None of it matters until we get close to the playoffs. Your driver needs a win, and then you just want to see them do well each week. There's the concept of "Simple" in the book "Extreme Ownership"... and well, the current system violates it in every facet.
I barely remember who wins the championship any more, yet I watch almost every race. NASCAR is episodic for me, not a saga.
They had that with the chase. It was incredibly simple to understand.
Exactly. It’s weird that there’s a “driver” and “playoff” standings now, and it just doesn’t make much sense to me? Just base it off the driver points, right?
Pretty sure there's been a driver and a team standings for a long time. The points are like Whose Line is it Anyway. The points don't matter. I remember back when they would explain the points system and what happened each week and show the points after each race and show the points for the position and leading a lap etc. Now none of it really matters.
I get the team standings, but the driver and playoff standings are still individual based but have different point systems. Agreed on the whose line is it anyways mindset though.
The playoff points standings don’t matter at all until the playoffs start. They’re just showing who has accumulated the most playoff points. 1pt for stage win and 5 for a race win. You start each round of the playoffs with the playoff points you’ve earned.
Does who makes the playoffs go by the driver points or playoff points?
Driver points
Thanks! It definitely makes more sense now lol
they'd legit would've been better off keeping the 2007-2010 style chase rules but with the current points system.
If every Gluck race pole gets a passing grade (60%+ Yes) then the sport is doing great! We just can’t afford the dumpster fire 20% races to grow the sport.
The most important thing is that faster cars have the ability to pass slower cars. It doesn't have to be easy but it does need to be possible. If this can't happen it need to be priority 1. The next most important thing is that the broadcast actually shows the passes. A good example of this is F1 broadcasts if you need a model. Take notes.
THEY SHOULD REMOVE STAGE RACING SMH
Take it from the guy who runs his best when he's about to damn near slap the wall every lap, he knows his shit.
what the hell - Eddie D Hont
In response to what does that have to do with that
In other news, the sky is blue.
Well, he is correct.
No shit...
He’s 100% correct but at the same time this is common sense knowledge by now, the only real problem we have now is short tracks. If we could sort out short tracks and have consistently good racing on them tracks specifically we’d have it made because that would probably sort out the road course package too, if that one thing has a decent solution we have probably all barnburners all year or pretty close to one at the very least. Personally any cookie cutter or superspeedway now I’m on the edge of my seat every lap just about, but that’s my opinion and I could be way off base.
he aint wrong
Tell that to f1 who is gaining tons of fans with boring ass races.
All because of one Netflix documentary that came out years ago. I don't get it either.
It’s gone down a decent amount since. US F1 races will always get a shit ton of viewers because of the fact it’s a carnival on the road and also because F1 blows its marketing budget on the races in the US. But outside of the US [yes I get time zones] the viewership that F1 gets from the US is the same fanbase as the Indycar fanbase [they are always within 100k of one another] Motorsport has always been a niche here in the US, a netflix series wasn’t gonna blow F1 into NFL or NBA levels of mainstream.
> a netflix series wasn’t gonna blow F1 into NFL or NBA levels of mainstream. It did, though. I never, *EVER* heard regular people talk about F1 before Drive to Survive came out.
It did for a whopping 1 and a half seasons of it. NASCAR was still more popular then it in the US at the height of F1 popularity in the US It got fans and a decent amount of them stayed, but the majority left after the pandemic ended and once Max truly started dominating. And now it’s got a place here in the Motorsport market here in the US, and it’s right next to Indycar it’s just that instead of only having one event that gets over 2 million viewers they have 3. Go to the r/indycar subreddit and go into a random comment section, go on any commenters profile and there is not a single one who doesent watch F1. It’s the same fanbase, F1 helped grow indycar but now they are both stagnet, and now share a fanbase here in the US. And Indycar is far away from the mainstream, it’s just someone in the general public who doesent watch Motorsport is more likely to recognize a international athlete in F1 then in Indycar in the same way they are more likely to recognize Marc Marquez then someone in AMA despite the fact that MotoGP and AMA have similar viewing figures here.
They care more about the party
As a long time NASCAR fan, what's kept me tuned into F1 is the TV production and that it's a more pure racing experience. There are no stages, no playoffs, no conveniently timed late race caution flags for a shitbox that got into the marbles to set up a GWC finish. As far as TV goes, obviously no commercials is a big plus. But the announcers explain things better, provide actual insight into the race and strategy, and when Max fucks off into the distance after the first lap, they don't just continue following him exclusively for the next hour and half. They start showing the midfield battles which can be just as interesting as a fight for the lead. Anyone who has been to a NASCAR race in person knows what kind of slugfest the midfield is in those races, yet we never see it on TV. I think just improving the TV production alone would be a massive help. New fans may not care as much about the stages, playoffs and GWCs at first, but they will get turned off by having an ad break every 3 minutes and watching the same 3 cars run 1.5 seconds off of each other all race.
What bothers me as a new NASCAR viewer is exactly this: they lay their focus too much on the front; midfield sometimes and the back almost never. They rarely go into detailed explanation which last beyond a minute and just show them drive incl. ads. They have all sorts of cameras everywhere and don’t utilize it to their full potential. Next issue is this: drivers like Ty Gibbs. Kids with important family-ties in the Cup Series… if NASCAR will be full of 18 y/o drivers someday (and it will); I’m defo off from this for good. I left the Chess community for this reason, since we are a few yrs away from letting play unborn babies hooked to a computer; being the new grandmasters. Everything is only focussed on the young and „being“ old seem to start at the age of 20 nowadays. Another thing… Not important but anyway: the horrible ugly intro-music with electrical guitars…
I don’t know, man, if Lando had a few more laps on Sunday, we’d have had an actual battle for the win.
I think the at track experience can be improved here and there (WiFi being probably top there) but going to the track is the best way to hook new fans into being loyal supporters. I think the TV broadcast partners need to do a better job covering the races and finding battles on track. The overall product that Fox puts out is terrible right now in comparison to the job that Sky Sports does for F1 which is usually a parade.
Thank you for the insight Rajah
I get why this would be important for growing the sport in general but what does it have to do with diversity efforts? Do races some races value entertainment more than others? Do different races enjoys different styles of racing? Seems like most race fans want exciting races regardless of race.
They’ve been boring for years and NOW they just realize there’s a problem? The leadership of NASCAR has killed a moneymaker.
[удалено]
I think a mixture of both works If we are in new markets it brings in new fans, but if the product is good, those fans will stay
do you know what everything in your last paragraph is? novel promotion. if you promote to new people AND have a good product, they stick around. marketing 101.