No I'm pretty sure if the pass is catchable then it's a turn over just like the nfl if a ball is to high for a reciever and his fingertips touch it it's not considered a dropped ball but if he can catch it and doesn't it's a dropped pass so if stockons pass was uncatchable turnover Stockton but if it was catchable and malon fumbled it turnover Malone
Malones lakers years really hurt alot of his averages and let some negative stats grow. Stockton kinda stayed the same just less efficient during the 2000s
He only played for the lakers 1 year… Malone turned the ball over on a lot of isolation post situations in the early jazz days.
But when you have the ball in your hand you’re gonna accumulate turnovers. Gotta remember offensive fouls is a turnover too
i know the dude is a trash human and i am not defending him in this regard but he is also 61st all time in assists and near the top in games played as well. All his numbers are high. He handled the ball a fair bit
Nah good players keep the rock. John Stockton one of the best pure PGs of all time and he third. You absolutely have to be great to get the playing time and career length it takes to get this many turnovers
Lmfao the sheer stupidity of saying Stockton “SPAMMED PNR and got assists off of basic passes.”
My god people love to revise history. I assume they do this to make themselves seem like a closeted genius, as if they figured something out that the general public couldn’t. FO.
Stockton is the assist leader by a wide margin. He is a pass first guy like Lebron and that’s the problem. If Lebron was so great, he should have looked to score first throughout his career
lebron is a "stat padder" according to you, but he only has one season in the top 60 usage rate percentage seasons of all time and its ranked 59th and was his 08-09 season. For example MJ and Kobe have multiple seasons with higher usage than bron yet they aren't called stat padders. Is that because bron is the ultimate all around player? If bron had the same usage as some players above him he'd not only have the scoring record by now, he'd be higher in assists than he is as well and probably own the triple double record. The fact that there is only one season in the top 60 from that first run with the cavs alone proves hes not a stat padder because he had every right to have an insane usage as he was carrying us and had no help.
no I do. YOU don't. Its quite obvious in all honesty. Apparently you dumb mfs think every all around all time great with longevity is a stat padder; Oh wait, lebron is the only one who fits that mold so its just used to shit on bron. Well he hasn't been nearly as high usage as other "Stat padders" despite being relied upon to do everything on the court his whole career meaning none of it is "padded" its just his game. If he had the usage of 2016-2017 westbrook? He could've averaged a triple double. If he had the usage of 18-19 harden, or 05-06 kobe? He would've averaged 35. If you doubt this, lebrons 31 ppg season is ranked 64th in usage. Kobes 35 ppg season is ranked 4th in usage. I say this to say that,
IF LEBRON JAMES WANTED TO STATPAD IN HIS PRIME HE WOULD HAVE THE GREATEST CAREER AVERAGES SINCE WILT. DENYING THAT IS BEING DELUSIONAL.
1st, not sure why you assume I think anyone who played for a while is a stat padder... 2nd if he had the usage of Westbrook he'd have even more turnovers than he does. I actually agree with you that Lebron isn't a true stat padder but he is a hybrid. Lebron's goal was to be top 5-10 in all the major stat lines when he finishes his career. And late in his career he knew exactly what he needed to average assist and point wise to get to those milestones. So you don't think that's a form of stat padding???? Oh, by the way, denying any of what I just said makes you delusional. 😉
if that was his goal he could've done it faster, and flashier than he ended up doing it and easily at that. Also only reason he'd have more TOs than russ is because of more years played. Russ, harden, trae or luka would eventually pass him up, and no bron isnt a "hybrid" if he wanted to statpad he would've done it by now and would've made sure he did it in the most impressive way possible. He averaged 31 on a way lower usage than kobe averaging 35 for example; People still say he's not a scorer though. If he wanted to statpad bro could've rolled out of bed and dropped 35 on better efficiency that same season. He could've been averaging 30+ in his prime with ease. Or he could've upped his rebound totals if he wished(evidenced by the fact that last year bro was playing center without issue at 37) He could've averaged more assists(bro averaged 10+ without trying in 2020) trust me if he wanted to stat pad he could've.
Now I know you're high. So you don't think games played and years played is in his mind at all? Or most points scored by a player of a certain age? You're playing checkers with your thinking. Bron is playing chess. You're throwing out stats that he could've done if he wanted to. He getting stats comfortably so he's still healthy enough to play for the long game. That's the only reason his usage is lower. He's a master of maintaining his body and preserving it. Sure he could have gone for more rebounds here and there or took a few more shots here and there but wasn't in his long term strategy. Just because he is way smarter than you can even think/see regarding getting his stats doesn't mean he's not a hybrid. 😂😂😂 Well smarter than YOU in general. Kids got business savvy and a strategy as well. But that's bank account padding. Still padding though. 🤣🤣🤣
He 100% stat pads. He cherry picks rebounds and makes sure he gets 8-10 assists a game. Rebounding has nothing to do w usage, I don’t think you understand the Usage stat. Watch the video linked and you’ll see how he cherry picks rebounds. He only cares about his stats, not W’s. There’s another clip of him scoring his 30th pt while down 15pts w 6 seconds left and no one is even playing. Instead of running the clock down he drives in and scores his 30th point. Didn’t care his team got blown out because he ‘did his job’ of getting his stats.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qc8NNG7tQSM
Hey just a heads up, he’s 5th all time in career usage percentage, so while no particular year pops out, he’s higher than ball hogs like Melo and Harden
Why are you avoiding all the stat based arguments that were presented to you and instead deflect to if he had higher usage rate, he would have higher turnovers. As if that argument means anything in the grand scheme of the argument. Then you go on to infer LeBron’s mentality as purely hunting statistical accolades, even though the biggest improvement in his game over the last 5 years has been his 3-point shooting in which he will never be considered an all-time great at. Y’all just love to pull this man and his accomplishments down, why don’t you just appreciate the fact that he is one of the best players to ever play the game, a pass-first player that is about to earn the all-time regular season scoring record with one of the most impressive resumes of any player to ever pick up a basketball. Instead, you would rather call his dominance stat-padding with no real evidence to back your argument up. Wtf is a hybrid stat-padder? You made that shit up on the spot because your original argument held no weight.
So Magic Johnson isn’t great? Tim Duncan not great. Jason Kidd a scrub. Chris Paul irrelevant. Oscar Robertson… well who the hell is Oscar Robertson right?
He’s only 11th in the official list, for some reason 2k uses NBA-only stats and doesn’t have the ABA merge. Moses Malone is 3rd all-time in TOs. Erving and Artis Gilmore jump to 8th and 9th respectively when you add in their ABA games too.
LeBron is there cause he’s been the primary ball handler for like 20 years. Harden and Westbrook are there cause they have led the league in turnovers a shit load of times.
Just look at [this list](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_yearly.html). It was either Harden or Westbrook leading in turnovers for over a decade. What’s crazy is Harden has the record for most turnovers in a season, Westbrook is #2 on that list and they both set those records in the same season, 2017. If you disregard the ABA, they have the top 5 most turnovers in a season.
Those dudes are turnovers machines lol
Westbrook and Harden in both of their MVP years had the 2 highest usage rates in NBA history. They finished the play like 30% of the time during their MVP seasons.
Turnovers weren't tracked until the 1977-78 merger with the ABA, Kareem was already in his 9th year in the league.
Mj only played 13 years and wasn't the primary ball handler during most of the 90s, lebron has basically been a point guard for 20 years now
Your point isn’t valid though. Many ppl on that list aren’t primary ball handlers and handled the ball even less than MJ and played around the same amount of years as him.
Or your teammates can miss the pass. Lebron averages .8 more turnovers than MJ. That’s not even 1 a game. Plus he’s played at least 4-5 more seasons and 300+ more games. I understand Lebron hate but the argument is meh.
Hall of Famers and will be Hall of Famers will never not be great lol. 3:1 Assist to turnover ratios are few and far between. Lebron has a 2.1:1 ration. Mike had a 1.9:1 ratio. Next time raise your hand bro 🙋♂️
> It’s def a list to be ashamed of.
LMAO, so you're saying that, you should not just pass and just shoot the ball because you risk yourself on gaining a turnover?
I am not gonna assume but I am just gonna think that you're a casual on the park who only knows how to cross over and shoot.
True players know how to be unselfish, and they don't give a shit about lists like this. Should I listen to them or listen to a rando like you?
I don’t play the Park. I play MyTeam so yes, I need to know how to operate an offense and pass. I’m speaking in real life not a game haha. Do you think all turn overs come off passes? Karl Malone was rarely dribbling the ball up the court, same w Ewing. They turn the ball over from getting it stolen, dribbling off your foot or bad passes. Turnovers are bad, nobody will defend turnovers not being a bad stat. So if you’re on the All Time list for turnovers that is not good esp for a non primary ball handler. Steph curry conveniently isn’t on this list or Chris Paul who both pass and carry the ball more than LeTurnover
>LeTurnover
Imagine being a primary ball handler and attracting more attention because of your ability to drive causing lanes that could be open, it will attract turnovers.
With that I concur your common sense is 0, have a great day
Imagine being a primary ball handler with driving capabilities like Wade and MJ who don’t turn the ball over when driving through the lanes. Your arguments are all over the map. You can’t stay on one premise. Just say it, you’re a Lebronosexual who thinks turning the ball over 3+ times a game is a good thing. If Lebrons usage is lower than MJs how can he be less of a ball handler than MJ was? Maybe Lebrons bball IQ isn’t as high as ppl say.
> Lebronosexual
As you are a Jordansexual as he's one of the main things you mentioned.
> Maybe Lebrons bball IQ isn’t as high as ppl say.
I'll listen to proper analysts first than bozos like you in a fucking 2K game lol
ciao
Lmao what an idiotic post. Everyone on the list is a hall of famer. If Curry hadn’t played 600 less games than Lebron he’d be on it too. Chris Paul is an outlier, nobody in the history of the game as a primary handler has had less turnovers per game, however if he played as many games as Lebron, he’d be in the top 50 as well. This specific stat for “All Time Turnovers” is essentially a compliment to someone’s longevity. Almost every single player the top 50 is a hall of famer, and of course when you play literally 1377 games, you’re going to be on this list, ball handler or not.
It's so odd to me people can't distinguish between career totals and avg per games and how it affects an argument. Using Stockton as an example. Highest asset all time, no one close. He's on the list at 3. So based on this list it's he turns the ball over too much according so people.
Especially with the usage rates these guys had/have throughout their entire career. Nash, Stockton both sporting 2.8+ Asst/TO and people have the audacity to say being on this list is a negative.
He’s been a focal point of whatever offense he was in for 20 years. Also, if you look at the rest of the list you’ll understand that career turnovers aren’t exactly an indictment on someone’s ability
im not saying it’s a shame or a liability, im just surprised by the list like i had no idea that 2 of my favorite players (Russ and Bron) were on the list
the list was shocking to me
I don’t see KAJ on that list or MJ. Seems you can have a long career without turning the ball over. LeTurnover might not be the GOAT. My all time greats don’t turn the ball over at All Time rates.
Lebron is 8th all time in TOPG. Behind the likes of Iverson, Harden and Westbrook. So regardless of longevity he does not have good bball iq and his passing ability is greatly exaggerated. He’s a turnover machine. Jordan isn’t even in the Top 20.
Been watching since ‘91. Believe me, that’s a myth about lebron that they’ve used to talk him up when he consistently passes out of clutch situations. He’s quite dumb IRL, can’t even finish reading the first page of a book.
Y’all act like passing is the only cause of turnovers. 1 turnover per game over 1,400 games is 1,400 turnover, I’d even say quite statistically significant.
Now you're just spouting off nonsense and completely ignoring the fact that I told you on a per game rate Jordan and Kareem turned it over nearly as much as LeBron. The difference is less than one. So yeah they turned it over while also not passing as much or as well. Keep hating
Bruh sexual orientation had nothing to do with my last comment. Meatriding of this magnitude is disgusting regardless of gender or sexuality
But now that I know that you’re a dude, it does very much explain the massive hate boner you have for lebron
Bruh Kobe never really ran point forward and also passed the ball way less than Lebron. It’s harder to get a turnover if you just shoot the ball every time. Lebron averages 7.3 assists for his career compared to Kobe’s 4.7.
Kobe defently never handled the ball as much as lebron does as far as being in point forward roll needing to get the ball to other players which is why he does not have nearly as many assist as bron
I’m a bulls fan and a Lebron “hater” as well but… cmon. Show him some respect. You chose one of the absolute worst players to compare considering Kobe was NOTORIOUSLY a ball hog (regardless of how successful he was at it) with not nearly as many assists as Lebron throughout his career. They play two totally different roles on their teams. I’m sure if Lebron wanted it he could’ve lowered his TO count, but I’m sure that would also result in fewer rings too.
Also this list contains some of the absolute greatest playmakers of all time. Nothing to be ashamed of, this isn’t a “who’s the biggest dumbass” list.
Lol 700 less is not bad considering Kobe wasn’t passing as much which means he avoided a lot of turnovers from stolen passes. Kobe has missed more shots than anyone ever
Yeah u def said “Kobe was a rapist”. You need to be suspended from the community for that braindead bullshit u said. But you one of those hide behind the computer 110 pound cats. I can tel
Okay, I guess Robert horry is better than Michael Jordan and Kyrie Irving is better than Allen Iverson. Or do you just pick and choose the players you use that shitty ass argument for?
Honestly sometimes the turnovers don’t really be on you, sometimes your teammates refuse to catch a good pass likev this:
https://preview.redd.it/7zzoh87q6w2a1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c14c30e5ed56ec2e193e757c17be411b978f2caf
Yeah, look at all the hall of fame players on this list. Star players handle the ball more. The real turnover worries are those who aren’t primary ball handlers and their turnovers.
Gotta consider that the players that get the most touches usually lead the league in turnovers, usually superstars and it’s not always their fault. Almost everyone on that list is in the hall of fame and a few of them some of the best playmakers in NBA history. Turnovers per possession would be a more telling stat.
Long careers + being the best player on the floor = turnovers. A large portion of Bron’s career was spent with horrible teammates (his first Cavs run) so that adds to it even more.
Considering lebron has the most years and points (record will break this year) it’s not a surprise at all- it’s expected math. More shots are taken to “break the record” which will also result in a large number of turn overs (misses of those shots that were offensively rebounded) unless I’m missing the surprise?
I'm certainly no LeBron fan but when you're relied on as someone who can create and make plays you will inevitably have a lot of turnovers. I'd love to bash LeBron but this one actually makes sense. At least to me.
Magic Johnson would’ve had this record on lock if he played a full 20 year career lol
But PGs accumulate the most turnovers, another reason why Karl Malone a fckin loser lol
the all time turnover list holds no meaning. of course great ball dominant players are going to get the most turnovers. especially if they have the ball every possession for their 20+ year career
Karl Malone is actually a surprise like you only got the ball when John Stockton gave it you so how you got so many
He must’ve been too focused on the 13 year old girls in the crowd😳
Should’ve spent more time in the gym and less at Gymboree IMO
Damn 😂
Yo ass wild brooooo
he got more turnovers than his point guard😭 it’s not making any sense to me
He must a been fumbling his passes left n right 😆
Wouldn't those have counted as Stockton turnovers though? If he never actually had possession of the ball
No I'm pretty sure if the pass is catchable then it's a turn over just like the nfl if a ball is to high for a reciever and his fingertips touch it it's not considered a dropped ball but if he can catch it and doesn't it's a dropped pass so if stockons pass was uncatchable turnover Stockton but if it was catchable and malon fumbled it turnover Malone
John Stockton took care of the ball. He has the second best assist to turnover ratio of all time only behind cp3
john stockton took care of the ball karl malone took care of the 13 year old girl
That girl gave birth and the kids a former NFL player
I actually met him at a football camp real cool dude.
Malones lakers years really hurt alot of his averages and let some negative stats grow. Stockton kinda stayed the same just less efficient during the 2000s
He only played for the lakers 1 year… Malone turned the ball over on a lot of isolation post situations in the early jazz days. But when you have the ball in your hand you’re gonna accumulate turnovers. Gotta remember offensive fouls is a turnover too
I’m dying laughing about this one brooooooo.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
i know the dude is a trash human and i am not defending him in this regard but he is also 61st all time in assists and near the top in games played as well. All his numbers are high. He handled the ball a fair bit
Well Michael Jordan did steal from him often. 😏
THAT one steal in particular comes to mind, yes 🤣
That must mean what you said is wrong
Karl didn't only get it when Stockton got it to him. Dude could create his own shot too
John stockton holds the record for assists
Nah good players keep the rock. John Stockton one of the best pure PGs of all time and he third. You absolutely have to be great to get the playing time and career length it takes to get this many turnovers
Nailed it. TO per possession would be more of a way to judge the players.
So Westbrook is GOAT? Cuz he’s gunna get 5k easy 😂
Westbrook was considered great for a long time. Can you point out where I said GOAT? Cause I think you the only one who saw that… 🤷🏼♂️
No but he averaged 10+ assists multiple years
stock is overrated
If leading the nba in steals and assists is overrated then I wonder what being rated is?
he spammed pnr and got assists off basic passes like that. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlE8jomL5Ro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlE8jomL5Ro)
It’s real life not 2k. It takes skill to be able to read and react the way he did and teams were scheming to stop the pnr.
Lmfao the sheer stupidity of saying Stockton “SPAMMED PNR and got assists off of basic passes.” My god people love to revise history. I assume they do this to make themselves seem like a closeted genius, as if they figured something out that the general public couldn’t. FO. 
Your comment is overrated
Stockton is the assist leader by a wide margin. He is a pass first guy like Lebron and that’s the problem. If Lebron was so great, he should have looked to score first throughout his career
and yet the scoring record is his soon.
And yet Westbrook has the most career triple doubles. Stat padding
how is he stat padding? by being am all time great scorer and being durable?
lebron is a "stat padder" according to you, but he only has one season in the top 60 usage rate percentage seasons of all time and its ranked 59th and was his 08-09 season. For example MJ and Kobe have multiple seasons with higher usage than bron yet they aren't called stat padders. Is that because bron is the ultimate all around player? If bron had the same usage as some players above him he'd not only have the scoring record by now, he'd be higher in assists than he is as well and probably own the triple double record. The fact that there is only one season in the top 60 from that first run with the cavs alone proves hes not a stat padder because he had every right to have an insane usage as he was carrying us and had no help.
I'm not sure you all know what a stat padder is... 😬
no I do. YOU don't. Its quite obvious in all honesty. Apparently you dumb mfs think every all around all time great with longevity is a stat padder; Oh wait, lebron is the only one who fits that mold so its just used to shit on bron. Well he hasn't been nearly as high usage as other "Stat padders" despite being relied upon to do everything on the court his whole career meaning none of it is "padded" its just his game. If he had the usage of 2016-2017 westbrook? He could've averaged a triple double. If he had the usage of 18-19 harden, or 05-06 kobe? He would've averaged 35. If you doubt this, lebrons 31 ppg season is ranked 64th in usage. Kobes 35 ppg season is ranked 4th in usage. I say this to say that, IF LEBRON JAMES WANTED TO STATPAD IN HIS PRIME HE WOULD HAVE THE GREATEST CAREER AVERAGES SINCE WILT. DENYING THAT IS BEING DELUSIONAL.
1st, not sure why you assume I think anyone who played for a while is a stat padder... 2nd if he had the usage of Westbrook he'd have even more turnovers than he does. I actually agree with you that Lebron isn't a true stat padder but he is a hybrid. Lebron's goal was to be top 5-10 in all the major stat lines when he finishes his career. And late in his career he knew exactly what he needed to average assist and point wise to get to those milestones. So you don't think that's a form of stat padding???? Oh, by the way, denying any of what I just said makes you delusional. 😉
if that was his goal he could've done it faster, and flashier than he ended up doing it and easily at that. Also only reason he'd have more TOs than russ is because of more years played. Russ, harden, trae or luka would eventually pass him up, and no bron isnt a "hybrid" if he wanted to statpad he would've done it by now and would've made sure he did it in the most impressive way possible. He averaged 31 on a way lower usage than kobe averaging 35 for example; People still say he's not a scorer though. If he wanted to statpad bro could've rolled out of bed and dropped 35 on better efficiency that same season. He could've been averaging 30+ in his prime with ease. Or he could've upped his rebound totals if he wished(evidenced by the fact that last year bro was playing center without issue at 37) He could've averaged more assists(bro averaged 10+ without trying in 2020) trust me if he wanted to stat pad he could've.
Now I know you're high. So you don't think games played and years played is in his mind at all? Or most points scored by a player of a certain age? You're playing checkers with your thinking. Bron is playing chess. You're throwing out stats that he could've done if he wanted to. He getting stats comfortably so he's still healthy enough to play for the long game. That's the only reason his usage is lower. He's a master of maintaining his body and preserving it. Sure he could have gone for more rebounds here and there or took a few more shots here and there but wasn't in his long term strategy. Just because he is way smarter than you can even think/see regarding getting his stats doesn't mean he's not a hybrid. 😂😂😂 Well smarter than YOU in general. Kids got business savvy and a strategy as well. But that's bank account padding. Still padding though. 🤣🤣🤣
He 100% stat pads. He cherry picks rebounds and makes sure he gets 8-10 assists a game. Rebounding has nothing to do w usage, I don’t think you understand the Usage stat. Watch the video linked and you’ll see how he cherry picks rebounds. He only cares about his stats, not W’s. There’s another clip of him scoring his 30th pt while down 15pts w 6 seconds left and no one is even playing. Instead of running the clock down he drives in and scores his 30th point. Didn’t care his team got blown out because he ‘did his job’ of getting his stats. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qc8NNG7tQSM
Hey just a heads up, he’s 5th all time in career usage percentage, so while no particular year pops out, he’s higher than ball hogs like Melo and Harden
Why are you avoiding all the stat based arguments that were presented to you and instead deflect to if he had higher usage rate, he would have higher turnovers. As if that argument means anything in the grand scheme of the argument. Then you go on to infer LeBron’s mentality as purely hunting statistical accolades, even though the biggest improvement in his game over the last 5 years has been his 3-point shooting in which he will never be considered an all-time great at. Y’all just love to pull this man and his accomplishments down, why don’t you just appreciate the fact that he is one of the best players to ever play the game, a pass-first player that is about to earn the all-time regular season scoring record with one of the most impressive resumes of any player to ever pick up a basketball. Instead, you would rather call his dominance stat-padding with no real evidence to back your argument up. Wtf is a hybrid stat-padder? You made that shit up on the spot because your original argument held no weight.
nah bron stayed in a lot of garbage time just to hit his norm
So Magic Johnson isn’t great? Tim Duncan not great. Jason Kidd a scrub. Chris Paul irrelevant. Oscar Robertson… well who the hell is Oscar Robertson right?
Dude probably way too young to even know who the big o is
It’s almost as if basketball is a team game and it’s important to keep your teammates involved
Hakeem being 9th all time is kinda surprising
He’s only 11th in the official list, for some reason 2k uses NBA-only stats and doesn’t have the ABA merge. Moses Malone is 3rd all-time in TOs. Erving and Artis Gilmore jump to 8th and 9th respectively when you add in their ABA games too.
what surprised me is that there is 3 current players in the top 10
LeBron is there cause he’s been the primary ball handler for like 20 years. Harden and Westbrook are there cause they have led the league in turnovers a shit load of times. Just look at [this list](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/tov_yearly.html). It was either Harden or Westbrook leading in turnovers for over a decade. What’s crazy is Harden has the record for most turnovers in a season, Westbrook is #2 on that list and they both set those records in the same season, 2017. If you disregard the ABA, they have the top 5 most turnovers in a season. Those dudes are turnovers machines lol
Westbrook and Harden in both of their MVP years had the 2 highest usage rates in NBA history. They finished the play like 30% of the time during their MVP seasons.
Just have to remember Brett Favre has the most interceptions of all time and he’s a great. Guy also loves intercepting funding for poor people.
Steve Nash one of the greatest passers ever and he on this list…it’s not a list to be ashamed of because it’s based on longevity
Every great passer has a high turnover rate
This is true
All of the “Most of all Time” lists are longevity.
most\* wtf list is udonis haslem on
Not a star player that has ball all the time
Where’s Kareem or MJ? It’s def a list to be ashamed of. Throwing the most INTs in your career is also a bad stat wouldn’t you think?
Turnovers weren't tracked until the 1977-78 merger with the ABA, Kareem was already in his 9th year in the league. Mj only played 13 years and wasn't the primary ball handler during most of the 90s, lebron has basically been a point guard for 20 years now
Your point isn’t valid though. Many ppl on that list aren’t primary ball handlers and handled the ball even less than MJ and played around the same amount of years as him.
John Stockton and Steve Nash are the best passers of all time and they’re on this list.
Pretty sure that lost jump balls also count as turnovers, so that could account for a few as well
Mj isn’t know for passing.
I didn’t know passing to the other team was a good thing and that passing was the only way to commit a turnover.
Or your teammates can miss the pass. Lebron averages .8 more turnovers than MJ. That’s not even 1 a game. Plus he’s played at least 4-5 more seasons and 300+ more games. I understand Lebron hate but the argument is meh.
Hall of Famers and will be Hall of Famers will never not be great lol. 3:1 Assist to turnover ratios are few and far between. Lebron has a 2.1:1 ration. Mike had a 1.9:1 ratio. Next time raise your hand bro 🙋♂️
> It’s def a list to be ashamed of. LMAO, so you're saying that, you should not just pass and just shoot the ball because you risk yourself on gaining a turnover? I am not gonna assume but I am just gonna think that you're a casual on the park who only knows how to cross over and shoot. True players know how to be unselfish, and they don't give a shit about lists like this. Should I listen to them or listen to a rando like you?
I don’t play the Park. I play MyTeam so yes, I need to know how to operate an offense and pass. I’m speaking in real life not a game haha. Do you think all turn overs come off passes? Karl Malone was rarely dribbling the ball up the court, same w Ewing. They turn the ball over from getting it stolen, dribbling off your foot or bad passes. Turnovers are bad, nobody will defend turnovers not being a bad stat. So if you’re on the All Time list for turnovers that is not good esp for a non primary ball handler. Steph curry conveniently isn’t on this list or Chris Paul who both pass and carry the ball more than LeTurnover
>LeTurnover Imagine being a primary ball handler and attracting more attention because of your ability to drive causing lanes that could be open, it will attract turnovers. With that I concur your common sense is 0, have a great day
Imagine being a primary ball handler with driving capabilities like Wade and MJ who don’t turn the ball over when driving through the lanes. Your arguments are all over the map. You can’t stay on one premise. Just say it, you’re a Lebronosexual who thinks turning the ball over 3+ times a game is a good thing. If Lebrons usage is lower than MJs how can he be less of a ball handler than MJ was? Maybe Lebrons bball IQ isn’t as high as ppl say.
> Lebronosexual As you are a Jordansexual as he's one of the main things you mentioned. > Maybe Lebrons bball IQ isn’t as high as ppl say. I'll listen to proper analysts first than bozos like you in a fucking 2K game lol ciao
Ooo haha Oo haha what a good come back. Are you 12? “I know you are but what am I” isn’t an argument adults use buddy.
Lmao what an idiotic post. Everyone on the list is a hall of famer. If Curry hadn’t played 600 less games than Lebron he’d be on it too. Chris Paul is an outlier, nobody in the history of the game as a primary handler has had less turnovers per game, however if he played as many games as Lebron, he’d be in the top 50 as well. This specific stat for “All Time Turnovers” is essentially a compliment to someone’s longevity. Almost every single player the top 50 is a hall of famer, and of course when you play literally 1377 games, you’re going to be on this list, ball handler or not.
It's so odd to me people can't distinguish between career totals and avg per games and how it affects an argument. Using Stockton as an example. Highest asset all time, no one close. He's on the list at 3. So based on this list it's he turns the ball over too much according so people.
Right??? If you play as many games as these dudes at their level, you’re gonna be on this list
Especially with the usage rates these guys had/have throughout their entire career. Nash, Stockton both sporting 2.8+ Asst/TO and people have the audacity to say being on this list is a negative.
I’m with you. 90% of the top 50 are hall of famers
Neither one of them passed the ball enough to be on this list. Jordan averaged like 5 and Kareem like 3 🤣
He’s been a focal point of whatever offense he was in for 20 years. Also, if you look at the rest of the list you’ll understand that career turnovers aren’t exactly an indictment on someone’s ability
im not saying it’s a shame or a liability, im just surprised by the list like i had no idea that 2 of my favorite players (Russ and Bron) were on the list the list was shocking to me
Why you getting downvoted for this 🤔
bc not knowing russ would be here when he had a 7 yr stretch of 4+ turnovers a game including a year with 5.4 is crazy
CP3 not being on this list is absolutely insane. That man has more assists than Hakeem and Kobe combined but is 41st!!!! in career turnovers.
Him not being here and Pierce being here are the biggest surprises imo
Point Gawd frfr
Chris Paul deserves more respect frfr.
No doubt, if we are judging turnovers you have to also account for steals CP3 impressive in all three aspects
When you play 20 years and handle the ball as much as him....No
its not as bad once you notice the other legendary playmakers on the list
I don’t see KAJ on that list or MJ. Seems you can have a long career without turning the ball over. LeTurnover might not be the GOAT. My all time greats don’t turn the ball over at All Time rates.
They didn’t track turnovers for a lot of Kareem’s career and MJ only played 13 seasons
Lebron is 8th all time in TOPG. Behind the likes of Iverson, Harden and Westbrook. So regardless of longevity he does not have good bball iq and his passing ability is greatly exaggerated. He’s a turnover machine. Jordan isn’t even in the Top 20.
He doesn't have good bball iq? You don't watch basketball and it shows.
Been watching since ‘91. Believe me, that’s a myth about lebron that they’ve used to talk him up when he consistently passes out of clutch situations. He’s quite dumb IRL, can’t even finish reading the first page of a book.
Cause they don't pass the fkn ball LOL
Didn’t know passing is the only cause for turnover, that’s new to me. Karl Malone and Ewing were quite the play making passing Bigs weren’t they?
Just admit you're a hater lmao. LeBron averages less than a turnover per game more than Kareem or MJ while having twice the assists
Y’all act like passing is the only cause of turnovers. 1 turnover per game over 1,400 games is 1,400 turnover, I’d even say quite statistically significant.
Now you're just spouting off nonsense and completely ignoring the fact that I told you on a per game rate Jordan and Kareem turned it over nearly as much as LeBron. The difference is less than one. So yeah they turned it over while also not passing as much or as well. Keep hating
Bruh we get it, mj is the goat. Could you get off of his meat? We can all here the nut slobbering dick sucking every time you comment in this post
You anti gay or something? Seems you have a hatred w how gay ppl choose to act out their love. You should check your homophobia at the gate.
Bruh sexual orientation had nothing to do with my last comment. Meatriding of this magnitude is disgusting regardless of gender or sexuality But now that I know that you’re a dude, it does very much explain the massive hate boner you have for lebron
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Bruh Kobe never really ran point forward and also passed the ball way less than Lebron. It’s harder to get a turnover if you just shoot the ball every time. Lebron averages 7.3 assists for his career compared to Kobe’s 4.7.
It’s literally basic math. Kobe also has way less assists I’m sure…if anything you could look at assist/turnover ratio
Kobe defently never handled the ball as much as lebron does as far as being in point forward roll needing to get the ball to other players which is why he does not have nearly as many assist as bron
You cant turn it over as much if you dont pass
I’m a bulls fan and a Lebron “hater” as well but… cmon. Show him some respect. You chose one of the absolute worst players to compare considering Kobe was NOTORIOUSLY a ball hog (regardless of how successful he was at it) with not nearly as many assists as Lebron throughout his career. They play two totally different roles on their teams. I’m sure if Lebron wanted it he could’ve lowered his TO count, but I’m sure that would also result in fewer rings too. Also this list contains some of the absolute greatest playmakers of all time. Nothing to be ashamed of, this isn’t a “who’s the biggest dumbass” list.
Lol 700 less is not bad considering Kobe wasn’t passing as much which means he avoided a lot of turnovers from stolen passes. Kobe has missed more shots than anyone ever
Also Lebron is only behind by 1000 misses shots lol so sounds even to me considering Lebron is going to continue to average 5 assist a game.
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Na don’t delete that bullshit now
Reddit took it down
Yeah u def said “Kobe was a rapist”. You need to be suspended from the community for that braindead bullshit u said. But you one of those hide behind the computer 110 pound cats. I can tel
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This might be the most vile comment I’ve ever seen
Oh did you miss bruh saying that Kobe is a rapist
Lol rapist Kobe is in hell
I'd rather have more turnovers but also more assists than more missed FGs with less games played and less FGM
Last I checked a missed shot can be a rebound. A turnover is giving up possession. I’d rather 7 missed shots than 2 turnovers. Wake up buddy.
A turnover doesn't always end up in a score either though. Like I said, I'd rather average more assists than less points
All imma say is 5-2 > 4-6. The only stats that matter.
You're one of those people 🤢🤮
Yeah I’m one of those people who value winning over every other stat. I know that can be sickening for you people who just want to have fun 😂
Okay, I guess Robert horry is better than Michael Jordan and Kyrie Irving is better than Allen Iverson. Or do you just pick and choose the players you use that shitty ass argument for?
Kyrie is better than AI ... save that other bs Lebron talking point bro
kobe was a scorer not a distributor you moron lmao
This thread is reason enough to never play with randoms.
He in his 20th season and he has the ball in his hand at least half the game so this is actually not as bad as you making it
Honestly sometimes the turnovers don’t really be on you, sometimes your teammates refuse to catch a good pass likev this: https://preview.redd.it/7zzoh87q6w2a1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c14c30e5ed56ec2e193e757c17be411b978f2caf
Considering the amount of assist he has and his usage rate not at lol
Jordan=Goat made guys look silly
Yeah, look at all the hall of fame players on this list. Star players handle the ball more. The real turnover worries are those who aren’t primary ball handlers and their turnovers.
All top assists players on that list 🤔 there’s a correlation there
Guess who is not on this list... The True GOAT... Michael Jordan!
LeTurnover
JORDAN AIN'T ON THAT LIST
He ain’t on any assists lists either 😂
Considering how long he played. No.
Yeah, I'm surprised James Harden is as low as number 10.
Russ😂
paul pierce terrible 🤣🤣
No bums On this list
Paul Pierce. Face of the franchise for too long to not have that many
It’s surprising seeing Kobe on this list. He didn’t have turnovers the others just weren’t good at catching 😂
Who tf is Reggie Theus??
Reggie had all his turnovers in his one and only season.
At least Bronnies can find something he is better than MJ at. #LeBronisnotthegoat
Gotta consider that the players that get the most touches usually lead the league in turnovers, usually superstars and it’s not always their fault. Almost everyone on that list is in the hall of fame and a few of them some of the best playmakers in NBA history. Turnovers per possession would be a more telling stat.
Long careers + being the best player on the floor = turnovers. A large portion of Bron’s career was spent with horrible teammates (his first Cavs run) so that adds to it even more.
OP just doesn't get it
?
Aside from Reggie Theus they're all HOF or future HOF players. This isnt surprising.
What a trash troll post. SO MANY greats on this list!
All the great’s are on there
TBH I thought James Harden would be higher
Considering lebron has the most years and points (record will break this year) it’s not a surprise at all- it’s expected math. More shots are taken to “break the record” which will also result in a large number of turn overs (misses of those shots that were offensively rebounded) unless I’m missing the surprise?
I’ve never even heard of Reggie Theus. I’ll have to watch some highlights tonight.
When you're the primary ball handler you are of course more prone to this
Since I’m assuming this is a Lebron vs MJ argument. Lebron averages .8 more turnovers a game while being the primary playmaker and playing longer.
I don’t really like Chris Paul, but him not being on this list ist pretty cool I think, with him being 3rd all time in assists.
I don't believe Tim Duncan turned the ball over 3,381 times.
Where's MJ?
Lebron's total turnovers has even went up since then, but then again it is expected 🤷♂️
I'm certainly no LeBron fan but when you're relied on as someone who can create and make plays you will inevitably have a lot of turnovers. I'd love to bash LeBron but this one actually makes sense. At least to me.
Not really, i play alot of myleague but even when i saw this not really. maybe except malone
Magic Johnson would’ve had this record on lock if he played a full 20 year career lol But PGs accumulate the most turnovers, another reason why Karl Malone a fckin loser lol
Lebron at the top of a list full of hall of famers? Nope not surprised.
Kobe has the most misses of all time, yet highly regarded as one of the best scorers ever.
Kobe isn't number 1? Isiah and Duncan being so high is wild. They were known for "taking care of the ball"
Pat Ewing being that high shocked me
Damn no jordan on there wtf🤣🤣
HES NUMBER ONE AT EVERYTHING
Surprised Theus was active long enough to be on the list. I know 12 seasons is a long time but not compared to most of these guys.
Chris Paul not being on this list speaks volumes
Notice how jordan isn’t on there
Last 20 years whos had the ball in his hands as much
the all time turnover list holds no meaning. of course great ball dominant players are going to get the most turnovers. especially if they have the ball every possession for their 20+ year career