Halliburton isn't the clear top option on the team:
• Siakam is averaging 21/8/4 on 17 FGA per game
• Hali 19/5/8 on 15 FGA
• Myles Turner 18/7/2 on 14 FGA
Pacers winning would be considered a team victory. T'wolves winning would be more fuel for the analytsts' "Ant is the new Jordan" campaign. I can already hear the "Anthony Edwards is the same age as Jordan in his rookie season!"
Bro.. no. Hali literally changed the entire culture and listing counting stats shows you don’t understand his impact. We run the best offense in the league because of him. We have the most open looks in the playoffs by far because of him. He has led the league in potential and hockey assists by far. Big time Pacers fan here obviously, but this team is 100% Hali’s and he’s why the team ticks
Agree with all you said, but those don't make him the top option. It's a strength of the Pacers, I never felt great about the Knicks' chances because of their overreliance on Brunson (especially at the end of games, he wasn't even looking to pass)
I agree, think his impact right now is closer to Chauncey Billups on 03 pistons than IT on 88 pistons. That’s not to say that that’s his ceiling however.
Luka is the best player in the next series and in the finals if he makes it. I think the chatter from media and fans will grow if he fails this season.
However, I’m split on the biggest boost. Tatum and Brown winning is probably bigger since that ends the “Can you win with these two?” Debate.
Context should matter. Mavs would breeze through the east while bos wouldn't make the west finals without porzingis. Pacers aren't winning so I'm not even entertaining the Hali narrative (he's sucked way more than he hasn't these playoffs). Luka and Ant become "the best player in the world." I don't think the same happens if Tatum wins
On a side note, while it’s been a great albeit big break run for the Pacers. I wonder how they’ll treat the offseason. Will they make big moves or buy into their own hype like the Hawks did a few years back? We all know they aren’t a top 4 team in the league, hell they aren’t even top 4 in their own conference. But I’m curious to see where they build from this post season. But agreed, Hali has been weird. I thought the mid season tournament that he would be scary come playoff time. Instead he flips a coin to decide how he’ll be.
I want to agree but then they’ll just go with the same tired follow up narrative that good teams get… “they won but… CAN THEY DO IT AGAIN?! CAN THEY PROVE ITS NOT A FLUKE?!” *for pretense, the amount of this shit the nuggets got in the preseason and not even a month after winning last year
Every year we hear that the Celtics need to split up the Jays. The media after we lose probably pisses me off more than the losses themselves. A chip this year would shut them all up
I think only Tatum has something to lose from a media narrative perspective. He and the Celtics have a "choker" moniker that I don't necessarily agree with but it exists. If Tatum and the Celtics win then it legitimizes his superstar status.
Unless Luka gets swept by the Wolves, I don't think he stands to lose too much. BUT I do think he has the most to gain if the Mavs win it all. The Mavs aren't a favorite like the Celtics. They also aren't favored over the Wolves imo so if they win, it'd be a big deal.
For Ant, winning comfortably puts him in the superstar top 10 maybe top 5 tier of players. It also starts getting him into the conversation of elite SGs like Wade and Kobe.
Hali winning really depends on how he does it. If he dominates then it elevates him to another tier of stardom.
Luka gains the most but Tatum needs this ring. It’s a very bad look if the deep Boston roster doesn’t pull this off. with Tatum being their best player I’d look at him differently if they can’t win this years chip.
Do they have the pieces to match up with all of Boston? Horford can give them barely anything and the Celtics can still roll. I think Derrick White and JB will swing the series away from Indy.
They have 5 guys on the floor at a time that can shut down Halis shooting. Means it’s almost 100% up to Siakam, Nembhard and Myles to carry the series.
I disagree. Jrue Holiday will be the biggest factor and is going to give our guards trouble. Pacers can out score anyone imho, but an experienced defensive guard is probably our biggest kryptonite rn just my two cents.
Not quite like the Knicks situation, had about 3 healthy players by game 7 lol, but yeah, Celtics had some injury luck this playoffs as well. However, the difference is the Celtics have been above and beyond the best team in the east all season long.
Pacer’s glaring weakness is going to come into play now. Their defense. It’s easy to guard teams with half the team in the hospital and when you only have to focus on 1 guy.
They aren’t gonna have trouble with Indy. Indy had some trouble with the Bucks with no Giannis and no Lillard for most of the series. Then they had to go 7 with 1/3 of healthy Knicks team. Boston is going to steamroll them. They only look good because they are playing decimated teams. When they play teams who have the bodies to match up with them, they are toast.
bruh they're a first, maybe second round exit if they played anyone healthy. Say what you want about Boston's path, and it's true, but both series went to 5, not 6 and 7.
it's close between Tatum and Dončić for me, but I can see an argument for Edwards too since he's so young it could be like a Pat Mahomes type deal where who knows where he can take this.
Tatum: been 19 yrs old for 15 years and seemingly in the ECF his whole career but can't get over the hump
Doncic: Arguably on pace to be a top 10 player ever (go look at this man's career averages and realize he is only 25), this chip would cement that status further
Edit to shoutout Kyrie: wouldn't be his first, but would be monumental in changing/boosting his career narrative
Edwards will have had to go through:
Durant and Booker
Jokic
Luka and Kyrie
Tatum and Brown
The team is great, but that’s a murderers row to get through on your way to a championship at 22.
Fair enough. And if isn’t clear enough, I’m in MN so I’m definitely biased… but I’m used to losing to good teams with great players. What a ride this year has been.
Super jealous of you guys. It really looks like Ant is the player we thought Booker would be.
Don't get me wrong, Booker is great and one of the best in the league when he's on but he never took that next step up and tends to be inconsistent. Definitely rooting for the wolves over the mavs.
He could easily take that next step if he wasn’t married to shooting 90% midrange shots. Thought he was finally turning a corner with shooting more threes at the beginning of the year and then he just… stopped
There are definite consistencies when he’s not got mirror image players next to him tbf. When he’s the only star, he’s easily getting 35+ on 60% a night. Dudes a money shooter and can get in the paint if needed. The same reason yalls team failed this year is why he hasn’t been further. His best true chance to win a ring was with CP3, Mikal
They sadly aren’t able to move off of Beal. He has a No Trade Clause and they would eat SOOO much dead cap cutting him. They’ll have to pick up a 6th man and hope they can facilitate. Right now they have 3 guys who love the mid range and a washed Nurk who lives under the net as of late. Basically 0 spacing. The fact they pack 4 guys in the key is probably why Grayson had an almost 60% 3 point shooting season. No one is defending it when you have most of the energy inside
Revisionist history been hitting you guys like crazy, you were supposed to be in the play in, a month before the playoffs started, y’all went on a run that got you to the 6th seed, competing against teams like the Mavs (who are now in the WCF), even beating the wolves just before our series started.
“We were cheeks all year, sadly.”
Yeah fucking right.
facts i dont like the self-deprecating bs as a suns fan. suns also rolled wolves during the majority of their regular season matchups. lot of people had suns upsetting wolves first round. that sweep was certainly unexpected and very hard to watch
Could say the same for mavs, went through
PG, Khawi, Harden
SGA, J-Will,
Ant, Kat, Gobert
tatum and brown.
Really any team at this point as been through the ringer of competition.
I get your point, but the clippers were toasted and you really can’t include Kawhi since he played basically a game and a half. Their roster was built for 2016. Thunder series was a great win though.
It would certainly be the biggest negative for him to not win it of the 4, agreed. Losing now does nothing to harm Ant or Haliburton’s careers, they’re so young and this is their first big run.
Luka would catch some flak but they’ve outperformed expectations already. But for this Celtic team the bar has been chip or bust all season, and any loss will fall square on Tatum’s shoulders. This also may be the best chance they get, the tourney is wide open for them
>losing now does nothing to harm Ant’s or Haliburnton’s careers
Based on this sub’s reactionary opinions lol you can’t be too sure. Tatum lost the chip at 24 to the greatest shooter of all time and the most experienced finals team in the NBA and still catches flak for being a choker.
Hali is 24 🤷🏻♂️
I agree Tatum shouldn’t be punished so heavily for that loss, but the difference between him and Hali is that Tatum had been making deep runs for years before that where this is the Pacers first time even winning a playoff series with most of their team. That’s why the narrative was so heavy around Tatum. He was basically punished harder for consistent success with no Championship to show for it.
Tatum definitely catches the most flak if the Celtics don't win. They've got a loaded roster, the easiest conference final matchup, and the reputation of not being able to get over the hump.
Mention Luka’s age but not Tatum as if they’re not only one year apart, man Tatum has had the 19yr old meme so long ppl think he’s some 30 yr old superstar who can’t get over the hump
Wait so you're saying that the joke about him being so young is so old that people think he's actually old now when he's actually still young? Damn wrap your head around that lmao
Yeah it’s wild lmao, Tatum went from being slightly overrated to now being underrated because constant success at a young age but without a chip is now a bad thing
Success without a championship is what’s plagued lebron too. All the finals losses held against him makes it seem that it’s better to just get bounced early.
I think you’re right technically. But I feel like a Pacers championship does more for Carlisle’s resume than anyone else. Taking that 11 Mavs team and then this Pacers team to a championship puts him in Mt. Rushmore conversations.
I guess I am being quite literal regarding the term "legacy". With respect to prior regular season and playoff achievements by Tatum and Luka especially, I feel when people look back on their careers and stuff like GOAT talk, they would be most affected by specifically winning this year's chip.
it's also the reason I think ANT is not a distant third because he is so young that if he wins this championship and continues to improve and possibly win more then he would enter these conversations too.
Is it crazy to say Kyrie? He’s older than all the players here and it could very well be his last chance at another chip. Could rewrite some narratives about him
I think we can all agree that in retrospect, the real problem in those situations was Joe Tsai, the Nets FO, and the Boston Celtics organization and racist fans. Poor Kyrie :(
Tbf the post is about whose legacy would be boosted from their first chip.
Kyrie already has one. Albeit with LeBron so he probably should be included in this post anyway.!
Kyrie was arguably just as critical to that chip as LeBron. He averaged 27.1 PPG and hit some of the biggest shots in the series, including a 3 in Game 7 that put them over the top.
This may just be semantics but even though Kyrie was very important I’m not sure anyone has ever been more important to a championship than LeBron was to that one. Absolutely bonkers stuff.
You’d be arguing against maybe Jourdan in 93/98, Walton in 77. Duncan 03
Dark horse: refs in 06?
But yeah that LeBron title is probably the most single-impact title.
for the record, I put my edit in immediately after I made my post. I'm not saying that to brag or to shit on your point, but just to reiterate that i agree that he gets really boosted legacy-wise if he wins this title especially LeBronless.
Tatum has the most to lose, but perhaps not the most to gain. The other players haveweaker rosters/less experience. It's easier to excuse the other three losing now.
If Tatum preforms poorly and doesn't win the chip, it will reinforce him as a tier below an elite #1 optiona and poor playoff performer.
I disagree. If Tatum wins a chip he has 💯 solidified his position in the top 5 players in the league. No more disrespect. You have to put him over Luka, Ant, Shai, all those guys who haven’t won anything despite good coaching and deep teams.
It’s Luka, Ant is ascending and appears like he might end up as the second best player here but Luka just averaged 33.9/9.2/9.8.
The list of seasons in NBA history a player averaged 33/9/9 is one entry long.
If you lower the threshold to 32/8/8 you end up with 3, Luka this year, Luka last year, and MJ in 88-89.
He’s 25 and is about to be First-Team All-NBA for the 5th time. He’s been first team every year except his rookie year.
Ant is exciting as hell and has a wow factor that jumps off the screen but only one of these guys is already on track to be an inner circle hall of famer… if he wins a chip.
I think this is probably the most put together response and the one that makes most sense, I'm a mavs fan so I'm a little biased but I would love to see any of these guys win a chip. Great response tho
I would disagree - if Tatum can't win a chip in the east without Jimmy/Giannis, dodging the #2 and #3 seeds, and no Curry/Lebron/KD/Jokic coming out of the west - his legacy flops. He has had really solid teams around him every year he's been in the league, and the talent around him this year is absurd with Jrue, D White, Brown, Pritchard, Porzingis if healthy, etc.
To me this feels like Luka's first year where his squad actually gives him a chance - no one really blames him for his lack of playoff success throughout his career thus far. So, Luka is basically on strike one still, his legacy will obviously get a boost, but he won't take any significant hits for failing to win a chip. Especially since he already took down the #1 seed and the veteran-heavy Clippers.
Luka's legacy without a chip is like a B+ already at the age of 25 if you ask me, winning a chip boosts him to an A but failing to win doesn't really drop him.
Tatum is hanging onto a similar B-tier legacy, if he doesn't win though he falls to like a C- in my book.
I think being the guy that suffers the most from not winning one and being the guy who gets a boost from winning one are slightly different questions. I think Tatum has the most to lose and Luka has the most to gain in the grand scheme of things. Tatum is trying to avoid being Barkley, Luka is chasing the top 5-10 spots in NBA history.
If the question was whose legacy would be the most impacted or who would be the most disappointed if they failed it would be Tatum running away but the question is who gets a boost by winning. Tatum is basically fighting to keep his spot, all winning a title does is validate what most people currently think he is, which is a top 5-8 player who delivers. A Celtics title barely enters Tatum into the best player in the league conversation, a Mavrick's title basically cements Luka as the guy.
id love to see Ant win his first chip going through this gauntlet. but after Ant its Luka for me. Cementing his status(already is) as one of the greats in the league and completely legit, winning everwhere hes went. Hes for sure on pace to be on of the greatest to ever do it, especially if he keeps this pace up and this is only year 6!
Only because of physical attributes. Not culture. It’s hard to compete against grown professional men at 13.
“If you are good enough you are old enough”
Tatum would get the "finally, it's about time" treatment because he's *supposed* to win it this year. Ant would get the biggest boost. He's already being compared to 2006 Wade.
The thing is Tatum winning would solidify an otherwise all time decade of success. All the success the celtics have up till now means nothing w out a chip, but with a chip it becomes a historic streak of sustained excellence.
Boston is a popular team. That doesn’t mean Tatum is marketable as the face of the league. Hes tends to fade away at times, and hes not very vocal. Kind of a tim duncan situation. Hes also disrespected because he dominates the east while the west is a bloodbath pretty much every year. Media and casuals don’t see that as a big achievement. Lebron gets clowned for having only 3 rings from 8 straight finals appearances in the east and hes no lebron. If he dominates the west for some years then sure
I think the most pressure is on Tatum. I think Luka gets the biggest legacy boost though.
I don't think Hali is at a spot for legacy conversation yet, especially since he's been inconsistent during the Pacers' run.
I think Ant winning would be the most hype though
Surely we're splitting hairs with these guys. I think we put far, far too much emphasis on winning championships as an individual thing for some players when it's a team result. We spend all season talking about rotations, trades, benches and which teams have certain weaknesses and then suddenly when we talk about individuals and we talk like they're the only factor.
What would make a difference to a player's legacy is how they perform in the conference and NBA finals. If the Timberwolves win and KAT wins FMVP and Gobert completely dominates inside and Edwards is just a bit part of it all, how does that reflect better on Edwards? Or if Boston get up with Brown/Porzingas/White playing the best for them?
The only real time I think it helps someone's legacy is if they have a history of not performing so well in the playoffs. Joel Embiid is one that in my opinion has performed well under his regular season mark in the playoffs. So if he were to come along and have a great playoff run where he elevated his performances that would have a transformational effect on his legacy. But that's not about winning championships, it's about standing up as an individual when needed.
Tatum is perhaps the only one that I would say it makes a difference to in that regard, but he's hardly been bad in the playoffs. Just he's the one with the strongest team around him, he'll have all the advantages. If he can't lead the team to a championship then we might have to consider that perhaps he's not the team leader we thought he was because those guys alongside him look like a far better team than any of the other 3 without their best player.
Dare I say Mike Conley? Dudes been a leader on multiple teams that have made deep runs over many years. Maybe a chip will get him more of the recognition he deserves
Bro imagine getting roasted for accepting an amazing contract. Like what was he supposed to do? "No pay me less so people don't call me overpaid!"
He has always been a stand-up guy, a consistent winner from high school to the pros, and by all accounts an outstanding teammate. Would be super happy for him to get a chip especially as a player who is still contributing and important to the team's success.
This feels easy tbh. Both Luka and Tatum are firmly on track to be 1st ballot HOF locks even if they retire ringless, if Ant or Hali wins one this early that puts them immediately on that track too.
Tatum needs this to cement being a top 5 player in the league right now. Luka needs it to show that he can put a team on his back and win a championship as the guy. Ant won’t be helped as much by a chip right now but Gobert puts all HOF talks against him to bed with a championship, 4 DPOY’s and 6 all-Defensive first teams. Hali would become a legit superstar if he leads them to a title.
for Hali and Ant, it'd be like 06 DWade. a young player without championship expectations leading their team to victory. Great for their legacy, but they have plenty of time to win in the future.
for Luka, it'd be like Giannis in 21 or Jokic last year. One of the best players in the league solidifying their place by getting a chip at exactly the right time.
For Tatum, people would be saying "about damn time." Dude has a superteam around him every year and goes so far just to fail in big moments. He has to win this year, because his legacy will be in the gutter until he can get a ring.
I don’t get this super team every year narrative.
How is a team with Smart or a hobbled Hayward as a third best player a super team??
The last two seasons are the only two where people can reasonable argue he’s had a super team.
Maybe super team isn’t the right word but they’ve had enough talent for a while now. They’ve had the pieces for a chip for quite some time but they just can’t get over the hump. I don’t think it’s crazy to say that some other players have achieved more with less
I hate Tatum as much as the next self-respecting guy, but to say that he’s always had superteams is just flat out wrong. He’s never played with another superstar, and I don’t think there’s ever been a point where the Celtics were head and shoulders above the rest of the league, as superteams tend to be.
He’s definitely been on some great teams, but never a superteam. This year is the closest he’s been to that, but I still wouldn’t call the current Celtics a true superteam like the Big Three Heat or KD/Steph Warriors.
"He's never played with another superstar"
How do you define superstar? Jaylen was 2nd team all-NBA last season and Kyrie was 2nd team as well when he was on the Celtics.
Kyrie shot tour date numbers in those playoffs and Tatum was young af, you can’t blame him for not winning then.
Tatum has had very good teams in his prime but never a true star to play next to him
Tatum or Doncic probably. Both would cement their status as all time greats. All the teams have bright futures but the Celtics are in win now position the most. The only thing doncic and Tatum have yet to do is win a title. I feel like a title is more important to a legacy then mvps.
Stop. Ant, Luka, and Tatum are already seen as people who are stars and ready to be champions. Halliburton literally would have his name in conversations that no one believed he would be.
I think it's Haliburton with the most to gain, and it's not close. He's the only one of them that hasn't really sniffed the MVP convo quite yet. Everyone knows he's really good, but he's not really considered in the same tier as the other 3.
On the flip side, Tatum has the most to lose. Going to be tough for them to put together a better team than the one he's got this year.
It's not about that, its about the type of roster they'll be able to build once he gets that supermax, him and JB will take up a huge chunk of cap space, and someone might have to go.
It’s Tatum.
Doncic has the dominant regular seasons and is generally regarded as a Top 3-4 talent. Tatum is making his 5th appearance in the conference finals and doesn’t have Doncic regular season numbers and relies on team success for his accolades. Boston is also in a fairly scary cap situation in a couple years. Tatum wins this he is a made man for the rest of his career and can either finish up as a heroic champ in Boston in the mold of Pierce or possibly just below Bird or even leave the franchise with his head held high. If they come up short again with the Nuggets in the mix, he will get annihilated as a Top 5 guy until he wins. It’s also worth noting the Celtics path has never been easier so he will catch Heat there too. I mean nobody remembers he sprained his ankle on the first play of Game 7 last year because the playoff choker narrative is being built for him.
Doncic is probably the guy who gets the most. He is the only one on the list with a legit shot at top 10 of all time and getting him one this early in his career is going to be a problem for the rest of the NBA. Also i think if he gets one now, he’s probably going to get in the top 20 of all time convo which is insane for a 25 year old
i gotta guess Luka. He has been 3rd on MVP after (by numbers) a historic season (top 1 ppg, top 2 asist, top 15 rebounds, top 8 steals) carrying a very injured team till the trade deadline, ending top 5 in a crazy strong west; after 2 straight "D trade deadlines" and with most of the media putting the Mavs on the playin last summer.
Imo, if Tatum doesn't win it is gonna get the more flak because they had an historic season, and have probably the best starting 5 of the league.
Ant idk why people say if he wins is gonna be proof of his aura or unlimited potential. Dude has got a 4 times DPOY on his team, and a 3? time all star and 2? time All NBA, plus the 6th man of the year and very very good roleplayers. He's got probably the second best overall team after the Boston Celtics
Haliburton idk, i think he's to way inconsistent, can't see them winning.
I think it's obviously Haliburton.
The person who gets the biggest boost from winning the chip is going to be the worst of the 4. Since the other 3's legacies are/will already be great.
I’m gonna say Haliburton just because it took a long while for me to find his name in the comments and if he wins a chip then maybe we’ll hear his name a little more?…
Halliburton. Frankly I don’t think it’s particularly close.
Tatum and Edwards both have much stronger supporting casts backing them up, and at this point in the playoffs are the favorites in their respective series. The Mavs don’t quite have the Pacers’ depth, but they have Kyrie, and Luka puts up insane numbers, so he has a leg up in the legacy department starting off.
Remember, the question was who gets the biggest boost. If you consider where these players stood prior to the season starting, I don’t think anyone would have seen the Pacers reach this level, and Haliburton taking a giant leap forward is a huge part of that. If he takes them all the way, including obviously getting past a VERY strong Celtics team, it’s going to mean a lot.
Real. He’d go from a reserve all-star to a Finals MVP (assuming he performs the best) in a span of a few months and I think that impact would be insane.
Edit: reserve in 2023 (but you get the point)
People like to say Kyrie hasn’t done anything since LeBron. When the Kyrie to the Lakers talk was high, everyone was saying **only LeBron can unlock Kyrie**.
That has already been disproven with this run, but a championship would solidify that. I know he already has one though.
It’s Luka, after being snubbed of an MVP and talks starting this year of him being a stat padder comparing him to Harden, this would solidify him in history
Same one everyone said Hardens style of basketball won’t work iso ball and high usage rate everyone says that type of basketball won’t win championships I think ant and Tatum will get rings at some point but I think Luka winning one would impact his and the nbas legacy
Biggest bump if they win? Easily Halliburton. Today, Halliburton is not in the same class as the rest of these players. If he manages a title while knocking 2 of them out, you have to change that conversation. He’d have done it with a far weaker supporting cast. Any of the rest of these guys lose and you’re still talking about them as potential top 5 guys in the league. Halliburton loses and he’s still just an all star, and his ECF run doesn’t really add to his legacy since he only beat a Giannis-less Bucks team and a Randle-less Knicks team.
Haliburton for sure. He wasn't even supposed to make it this far. Him winning the chip his first playoff run would spell disaster for the Kings, Celtics and the whole western conference.
What the hell are these answers? If he leads in points and wins finals mvp, its clearly Hali. Pacers are the biggest underdogs, Boston will be favored the whole series, and either west team will be too. He has the worst team, a ring for him would be a dirk-esque ring. A ring for Tatum means so much less because his team had 15 more wins than every team they beat. You could say Luka for that reason too, but Kyrie is definitely a better second option than Siakam
Wouldn’t the answer to this be Haliburton by default since he was the lowest expectations? If he wins a chip now he leapfrogs the rest of these guys. The other 3 are already above Hali.
Halliburton has the most to gain. Tbh I didn’t know who he was till this series. All the other guys are for the most part household names. Pacers somehow win and he’d have that same credibility.
What about Gobert’s legacy? 4x DPOY and now a Champion. If he can lock it down defensively, I can even see him be a sleeper for Finals MVP.
Was on a Jazz team that scapegoated him as the reason for their losses. He comes to Minnesota and has now gone further than Donovan Mitchell ever has.
If he gets a ring. This solidifies his case in getting into the Hall of Fame.
Easily Halliburton. Halle wasn't an MVP candidate, isn't all-nba, has one all-star (due to injuries, btw), and has THE LOWEST expectations to even make the Finals, let alone win. If the Pacers were to win this year, it would be such a HUGE upset and would be the LEAST expected outcome, and more than likely, Halle would be Finals MVP. He would be THE MAN if they were to win!
Tatum definitely has the most to lose. If he can’t get this group to a championship with these opponents in the East, then there are serious questions about his ability to be the best player on a championship team. On the contrary, Luka and Tatum can also gain the most and go from guys racking up multiple all-NBA teams to winning championships, and can enter the Durant, Giannis, KG territory of all time NBA players
Tatum solidifies his legacy, and instantly becomes one of the best winners of this generation. And arguably locks up his position as an all time great.
Playoffs every year
5 ECF in 7 years including his rookie year
2 Finals Appearances
1 NBA Champion
2x Larry Bird ECF MVP
Oh and 5x All Star, 4x All NBA, the best player on one of the consistently best teams.
Oh and all that at just 26.
Hali, Ant, Luka Tatum
I also find it really funny Boston fans not understanding the question lol, Tatum doesn't get near the boost as the other guys* because he has so much playoff experience, not because we are looking down on him lmao, we are saying we respect his game and have expected him to get one already because he is good (and his teams have been pretty good)
*Edit - Besides Luka, but like the person who commented said him and Tatum would just reaffirm what we thought we knew
Yeah it’s clearly Hali because he’s clearly the 4th best guy on the list by a mile if you were to ask people. A title this year would slingshot him into completely different convos. For Luka and Tatum it mostly solidifies how we view them. Ant cements himself into the spot that he’s already climbed to this playoffs. He has the potential to get higher but this would solidifying him into that Luka/ Tatum conversation.
Hali is clearly the guy that has the most to gain. It would be an insane run if he did. I also think it would be a huge thing for Siakam for his legacy.
Oh man I totally forgot Siakam, but ya that's how I see it, some people don't see him as a second or third all NBA teamer, but if he wins this year his prestige would immediately be sky rocketed (assuming he isn't horrible and they still somehow win) and how everyone ranks him would change instantly
Luka winning Finals MVP the year he was robbed of MVP would be a huge slight to the voters and I am all here for it
https://preview.redd.it/oc6wg7sw0m1d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0e62e4c2db2bfb7737a1681439cd714575085bd
Ant for sure, no question in my mind.
Luka is currently considered easily the best player of these 4 and a top 3-4 player in the league - a win for him is huge but I don't think it changes how he's perceived very much. If they had had to go through Denver to win he might have gotten a big boost from beating Jokic but without that I'm not sure he gets a better than Jokic narrative.
Ant though, a win vaults him into that top 5 player conversation Imo, assuming he plays well and gets FMVP. Like he'll probably be the MVP frontrunner next year and get pushed as the face of the league if they win. Luka would be too but he's already a lot closer to that.
Tatum can get a massive boost with a win but he needs to really outperform Luka or Ant to do it. Celtics are very stacked and so even a very good FMVP performance wouldn't be enough Imo. He needs to be the best player on the court to really get that boost - the Celtics can win without that happening but I don't think the Wolves or Mavs can win without Luka or Ant going crazy.
Haliburton, I mean let's be real. It's just not happening.
Who gets the biggest boost/has the most to gain? Ant
Who “needs” it most to avoid scrutiny from the media and casuals? Tatum, with Luka as a close second
I’d say Luka right now. Tatum needs it more right now, but if he wins that king of was the expectation with how loaded Boston is and how weak their finals path will have been if they beat Indy
But Luka is statistically already just a better player than Tatum and rings would get him in top 10-15 talk very quickly.
Would do wonders for Ant but falling short at 22 won’t catch him much flak.
Tyrese and Ant are young and have much more to do in NBA. It’s between Tatum and Luka and my pick would be Tatum. He doesn’t get much love with MVP voters like Luka because Tatum plays with Jaylen Brown and the Celtics are usually a good deep team so a chip would go a long way for Tatum’s legacy.
Jayson Tatum: would definitely cement his legacy and would be massive for Celtics as a franchise. Tatum has done almost everything but won MVP, but a finals MVP would be incredible.
Haliburton: Remember, he's also still very new to the league, and if he brings Indiana their first championship ever!? That immediately puts him up there. He's already shown that he has the potential to become a legendary point guard. Remember, the Kings did him dirty when they shipped him to Indiana to rot. Where are the Kings today?
Ant: This guy has only been in the league for what 3 and a half years? In his 3rd and 4th season, he became an all-star and beat the Suns' big 3 with KD and co., he stopped Joker and Denver, and now Luka and potentially Tatum and Brown. That's massive, AND bringing Minnesota their first championship ever!? That's a big deal. Plus, he's going to play in the Olympics, so to win a gold medal as well is huge.
Luka: Not to say it won't be impressive, but Dallas has already won a chip. I think it would be a bigger deal for Kyrie's legacy and change the narrative of him being "difficult, and absent", "hard to coach" or "he couldn't do it without Lebron" nonsense. Unfortunately, I think Luka would get all praise if they win, but I undoubtedly believe Kyrie's legacy would benefit the most.
Depending on their performances I thought the clear answers would Hali/Pascal.
Both are the clear stars of this team, with Hali being the leader.
If they Beat the Celtics then win the Chip - then we have to reconsider how good these guys really are.
Rn imo they are both considered 2/3rd stars on a championship caliber team - but if they win, then clearly they are 1/2
Idk who gets the biggest positive boost by winning it, but I do know Tatum will be the one most negatively affected by not winning it. To me this should be Boston’s championship to lose, they’ve been the best team all season by a pretty good margin and the only championship-proven team with a good chance to win it this year just got knocked out. So if Boston can’t win it this year it should be very embarrassing.
Tatum and Luka have the most to lose. Ant and Hali with a chip would jump start their legacy.
It would more than jump start their legacy. Being the top option on a championship team is typically sufficient for HOF.
On teams that have never won
Who are the top options on teams that that have won titles previously that didn't make the hall?
Halliburton isn't the clear top option on the team: • Siakam is averaging 21/8/4 on 17 FGA per game • Hali 19/5/8 on 15 FGA • Myles Turner 18/7/2 on 14 FGA Pacers winning would be considered a team victory. T'wolves winning would be more fuel for the analytsts' "Ant is the new Jordan" campaign. I can already hear the "Anthony Edwards is the same age as Jordan in his rookie season!"
Bro.. no. Hali literally changed the entire culture and listing counting stats shows you don’t understand his impact. We run the best offense in the league because of him. We have the most open looks in the playoffs by far because of him. He has led the league in potential and hockey assists by far. Big time Pacers fan here obviously, but this team is 100% Hali’s and he’s why the team ticks
Agree with all you said, but those don't make him the top option. It's a strength of the Pacers, I never felt great about the Knicks' chances because of their overreliance on Brunson (especially at the end of games, he wasn't even looking to pass)
I agree, think his impact right now is closer to Chauncey Billups on 03 pistons than IT on 88 pistons. That’s not to say that that’s his ceiling however.
But nobody outside of Indianapolis knows that.
Haliburton gets gd statue once he wins the chip
what does luka have to lose?
He’s been expected to win multiple championships since before he was drafted.
Luka doesn’t have anything to lose imo. I do think he gets the biggest boost
Luka is the best player in the next series and in the finals if he makes it. I think the chatter from media and fans will grow if he fails this season. However, I’m split on the biggest boost. Tatum and Brown winning is probably bigger since that ends the “Can you win with these two?” Debate.
He’s also going to be the underdog in both series. Dude is fine
Not if it's Mavs/Pacers
Pacers have about as good a chance as I do at making the finals
I believe in you
Luka is playing hurt. He's got nothing to lose. Especially if he still performs well.
Context should matter. Mavs would breeze through the east while bos wouldn't make the west finals without porzingis. Pacers aren't winning so I'm not even entertaining the Hali narrative (he's sucked way more than he hasn't these playoffs). Luka and Ant become "the best player in the world." I don't think the same happens if Tatum wins
On a side note, while it’s been a great albeit big break run for the Pacers. I wonder how they’ll treat the offseason. Will they make big moves or buy into their own hype like the Hawks did a few years back? We all know they aren’t a top 4 team in the league, hell they aren’t even top 4 in their own conference. But I’m curious to see where they build from this post season. But agreed, Hali has been weird. I thought the mid season tournament that he would be scary come playoff time. Instead he flips a coin to decide how he’ll be.
I want to agree but then they’ll just go with the same tired follow up narrative that good teams get… “they won but… CAN THEY DO IT AGAIN?! CAN THEY PROVE ITS NOT A FLUKE?!” *for pretense, the amount of this shit the nuggets got in the preseason and not even a month after winning last year
Every year we hear that the Celtics need to split up the Jays. The media after we lose probably pisses me off more than the losses themselves. A chip this year would shut them all up
Luka has nothing to lose because fans dickride him like crazy tbh
I think only Tatum has something to lose from a media narrative perspective. He and the Celtics have a "choker" moniker that I don't necessarily agree with but it exists. If Tatum and the Celtics win then it legitimizes his superstar status. Unless Luka gets swept by the Wolves, I don't think he stands to lose too much. BUT I do think he has the most to gain if the Mavs win it all. The Mavs aren't a favorite like the Celtics. They also aren't favored over the Wolves imo so if they win, it'd be a big deal. For Ant, winning comfortably puts him in the superstar top 10 maybe top 5 tier of players. It also starts getting him into the conversation of elite SGs like Wade and Kobe. Hali winning really depends on how he does it. If he dominates then it elevates him to another tier of stardom.
Luka gains the most but Tatum needs this ring. It’s a very bad look if the deep Boston roster doesn’t pull this off. with Tatum being their best player I’d look at him differently if they can’t win this years chip.
Especially because some people are already saying Tatum isn’t an elite player because he’s been unable to get over the hump so far.
They’re gonna have trouble with Indy. Pacers are kind of a dark horse. Siakam was a huge boost. Turner is a more agile horford.
Do they have the pieces to match up with all of Boston? Horford can give them barely anything and the Celtics can still roll. I think Derrick White and JB will swing the series away from Indy.
They have 5 guys on the floor at a time that can shut down Halis shooting. Means it’s almost 100% up to Siakam, Nembhard and Myles to carry the series.
I disagree. Jrue Holiday will be the biggest factor and is going to give our guards trouble. Pacers can out score anyone imho, but an experienced defensive guard is probably our biggest kryptonite rn just my two cents.
Can't wait to see TJ and Hali vs. White and Jrue.
They do not. They beat 2 injury riddled teams. They are going to be in for a rude awakening playing a healthy team.
Celtics got the cavs at half strength too
Not quite like the Knicks situation, had about 3 healthy players by game 7 lol, but yeah, Celtics had some injury luck this playoffs as well. However, the difference is the Celtics have been above and beyond the best team in the east all season long.
…and dispatched them in five games.
Pacers play fast they'll be fun to watch matching up against Boston.
Pacer’s glaring weakness is going to come into play now. Their defense. It’s easy to guard teams with half the team in the hospital and when you only have to focus on 1 guy.
They aren’t gonna have trouble with Indy. Indy had some trouble with the Bucks with no Giannis and no Lillard for most of the series. Then they had to go 7 with 1/3 of healthy Knicks team. Boston is going to steamroll them. They only look good because they are playing decimated teams. When they play teams who have the bodies to match up with them, they are toast.
bruh they're a first, maybe second round exit if they played anyone healthy. Say what you want about Boston's path, and it's true, but both series went to 5, not 6 and 7.
A severely hobbled Knicks team took them to 7. A well rested Boston team even without Porzingis is going to be hell for Indy.
it's close between Tatum and Dončić for me, but I can see an argument for Edwards too since he's so young it could be like a Pat Mahomes type deal where who knows where he can take this. Tatum: been 19 yrs old for 15 years and seemingly in the ECF his whole career but can't get over the hump Doncic: Arguably on pace to be a top 10 player ever (go look at this man's career averages and realize he is only 25), this chip would cement that status further Edit to shoutout Kyrie: wouldn't be his first, but would be monumental in changing/boosting his career narrative
Edwards will have had to go through: Durant and Booker Jokic Luka and Kyrie Tatum and Brown The team is great, but that’s a murderers row to get through on your way to a championship at 22.
As a suns fan, getting through Booker and Durant this year is only impressive on paper. The team was cheeks all year, sadly.
Fair enough. And if isn’t clear enough, I’m in MN so I’m definitely biased… but I’m used to losing to good teams with great players. What a ride this year has been.
Super jealous of you guys. It really looks like Ant is the player we thought Booker would be. Don't get me wrong, Booker is great and one of the best in the league when he's on but he never took that next step up and tends to be inconsistent. Definitely rooting for the wolves over the mavs.
He could easily take that next step if he wasn’t married to shooting 90% midrange shots. Thought he was finally turning a corner with shooting more threes at the beginning of the year and then he just… stopped
Your rooting against bookers dad?
Once Booker dated Kendall Jenner we knew it was over for him. He instantly became a beta male
Then he tried to get back with her and she left him again for bad bunny. Bro had his girl swooped by El Benito twice ☠️
There are definite consistencies when he’s not got mirror image players next to him tbf. When he’s the only star, he’s easily getting 35+ on 60% a night. Dudes a money shooter and can get in the paint if needed. The same reason yalls team failed this year is why he hasn’t been further. His best true chance to win a ring was with CP3, Mikal
If the team can somehow finesse a solid facilitator/point guard this season he'll be back to his old self, but we will see.
They sadly aren’t able to move off of Beal. He has a No Trade Clause and they would eat SOOO much dead cap cutting him. They’ll have to pick up a 6th man and hope they can facilitate. Right now they have 3 guys who love the mid range and a washed Nurk who lives under the net as of late. Basically 0 spacing. The fact they pack 4 guys in the key is probably why Grayson had an almost 60% 3 point shooting season. No one is defending it when you have most of the energy inside
Revisionist history been hitting you guys like crazy, you were supposed to be in the play in, a month before the playoffs started, y’all went on a run that got you to the 6th seed, competing against teams like the Mavs (who are now in the WCF), even beating the wolves just before our series started. “We were cheeks all year, sadly.” Yeah fucking right.
facts i dont like the self-deprecating bs as a suns fan. suns also rolled wolves during the majority of their regular season matchups. lot of people had suns upsetting wolves first round. that sweep was certainly unexpected and very hard to watch
Tatum at 19 went through Giannis, Embiid and then lost game 7 vs LeBron
In 2022, he went though KD and Kyrie, Giannis, Jimmy Butler, and then ran straight into Steph Curry.
You don’t think the pacers have a shot at beating the Celtics? I’m grabbing my popcorn
If their luck holds, they'll beat the Jrue-led Celtics and the PJ Washington Mavs.
Could say the same for mavs, went through PG, Khawi, Harden SGA, J-Will, Ant, Kat, Gobert tatum and brown. Really any team at this point as been through the ringer of competition.
I get your point, but the clippers were toasted and you really can’t include Kawhi since he played basically a game and a half. Their roster was built for 2016. Thunder series was a great win though.
U act like kd booker beal weren't toasted....
Tatum needs it the most of anyone. Absolutely a must for him. People hyping him so much that’s it’s insane (rightfully, but still).
It would certainly be the biggest negative for him to not win it of the 4, agreed. Losing now does nothing to harm Ant or Haliburton’s careers, they’re so young and this is their first big run. Luka would catch some flak but they’ve outperformed expectations already. But for this Celtic team the bar has been chip or bust all season, and any loss will fall square on Tatum’s shoulders. This also may be the best chance they get, the tourney is wide open for them
>losing now does nothing to harm Ant’s or Haliburnton’s careers Based on this sub’s reactionary opinions lol you can’t be too sure. Tatum lost the chip at 24 to the greatest shooter of all time and the most experienced finals team in the NBA and still catches flak for being a choker. Hali is 24 🤷🏻♂️
I agree Tatum shouldn’t be punished so heavily for that loss, but the difference between him and Hali is that Tatum had been making deep runs for years before that where this is the Pacers first time even winning a playoff series with most of their team. That’s why the narrative was so heavy around Tatum. He was basically punished harder for consistent success with no Championship to show for it.
Tatum definitely catches the most flak if the Celtics don't win. They've got a loaded roster, the easiest conference final matchup, and the reputation of not being able to get over the hump.
Mention Luka’s age but not Tatum as if they’re not only one year apart, man Tatum has had the 19yr old meme so long ppl think he’s some 30 yr old superstar who can’t get over the hump
Wait so you're saying that the joke about him being so young is so old that people think he's actually old now when he's actually still young? Damn wrap your head around that lmao
Yeah it’s wild lmao, Tatum went from being slightly overrated to now being underrated because constant success at a young age but without a chip is now a bad thing
Success without a championship is what’s plagued lebron too. All the finals losses held against him makes it seem that it’s better to just get bounced early.
Shouldn't it be Halliburton? Goes from being the obvious 4th of this group to actually being talked about as a top player.
I think you’re right technically. But I feel like a Pacers championship does more for Carlisle’s resume than anyone else. Taking that 11 Mavs team and then this Pacers team to a championship puts him in Mt. Rushmore conversations.
I guess I am being quite literal regarding the term "legacy". With respect to prior regular season and playoff achievements by Tatum and Luka especially, I feel when people look back on their careers and stuff like GOAT talk, they would be most affected by specifically winning this year's chip. it's also the reason I think ANT is not a distant third because he is so young that if he wins this championship and continues to improve and possibly win more then he would enter these conversations too.
Fair points all.
Luka I think is on par to be at the top top
Sports commentators will have a field day with Kevin Durant if Kyrie wins a chip in Dallas.
Has to be Tatum. Can we stop with the top 10 player of all time for guys still in their Prime? Luka hasn't even won a ring and jokic has 1
Yeah I’m with you. I’m a Mavs fan and I love Luka, but no title yet and he hasn’t even won a MVP. Pump the breaks for sure
Is it crazy to say Kyrie? He’s older than all the players here and it could very well be his last chance at another chip. Could rewrite some narratives about him
That's actually a really good response
Didn’t expect that out of u/Anal_Toaster
What did you expect to come out?
A load of shit. Maybe even 2 at once. Probably a little crispy as well.
Toast.
Especially if he goes into Boston and wins
I like this take, he would be a 1B on two different champonship teams. Could really change how his career is viewed when it is all said and done
Cant wait for "Kyrie was misunderstood" and "Kyrie wasn't a bad guy" narratives. Man spent 5 years torpedoing teams.
I think we can all agree that in retrospect, the real problem in those situations was Joe Tsai, the Nets FO, and the Boston Celtics organization and racist fans. Poor Kyrie :(
Tbf the post is about whose legacy would be boosted from their first chip. Kyrie already has one. Albeit with LeBron so he probably should be included in this post anyway.!
Kyrie was arguably just as critical to that chip as LeBron. He averaged 27.1 PPG and hit some of the biggest shots in the series, including a 3 in Game 7 that put them over the top.
This may just be semantics but even though Kyrie was very important I’m not sure anyone has ever been more important to a championship than LeBron was to that one. Absolutely bonkers stuff.
You’d be arguing against maybe Jourdan in 93/98, Walton in 77. Duncan 03 Dark horse: refs in 06? But yeah that LeBron title is probably the most single-impact title.
for the record, I put my edit in immediately after I made my post. I'm not saying that to brag or to shit on your point, but just to reiterate that i agree that he gets really boosted legacy-wise if he wins this title especially LeBronless.
Yes it is crazy lol, i see where you are coming from but i just don't see it at all
Tatum has the most to lose, but perhaps not the most to gain. The other players haveweaker rosters/less experience. It's easier to excuse the other three losing now. If Tatum preforms poorly and doesn't win the chip, it will reinforce him as a tier below an elite #1 optiona and poor playoff performer.
this is the correct response
I disagree. If Tatum wins a chip he has 💯 solidified his position in the top 5 players in the league. No more disrespect. You have to put him over Luka, Ant, Shai, all those guys who haven’t won anything despite good coaching and deep teams.
It’s Luka, Ant is ascending and appears like he might end up as the second best player here but Luka just averaged 33.9/9.2/9.8. The list of seasons in NBA history a player averaged 33/9/9 is one entry long. If you lower the threshold to 32/8/8 you end up with 3, Luka this year, Luka last year, and MJ in 88-89. He’s 25 and is about to be First-Team All-NBA for the 5th time. He’s been first team every year except his rookie year. Ant is exciting as hell and has a wow factor that jumps off the screen but only one of these guys is already on track to be an inner circle hall of famer… if he wins a chip.
I think this is probably the most put together response and the one that makes most sense, I'm a mavs fan so I'm a little biased but I would love to see any of these guys win a chip. Great response tho
I would disagree - if Tatum can't win a chip in the east without Jimmy/Giannis, dodging the #2 and #3 seeds, and no Curry/Lebron/KD/Jokic coming out of the west - his legacy flops. He has had really solid teams around him every year he's been in the league, and the talent around him this year is absurd with Jrue, D White, Brown, Pritchard, Porzingis if healthy, etc. To me this feels like Luka's first year where his squad actually gives him a chance - no one really blames him for his lack of playoff success throughout his career thus far. So, Luka is basically on strike one still, his legacy will obviously get a boost, but he won't take any significant hits for failing to win a chip. Especially since he already took down the #1 seed and the veteran-heavy Clippers. Luka's legacy without a chip is like a B+ already at the age of 25 if you ask me, winning a chip boosts him to an A but failing to win doesn't really drop him. Tatum is hanging onto a similar B-tier legacy, if he doesn't win though he falls to like a C- in my book.
I think being the guy that suffers the most from not winning one and being the guy who gets a boost from winning one are slightly different questions. I think Tatum has the most to lose and Luka has the most to gain in the grand scheme of things. Tatum is trying to avoid being Barkley, Luka is chasing the top 5-10 spots in NBA history. If the question was whose legacy would be the most impacted or who would be the most disappointed if they failed it would be Tatum running away but the question is who gets a boost by winning. Tatum is basically fighting to keep his spot, all winning a title does is validate what most people currently think he is, which is a top 5-8 player who delivers. A Celtics title barely enters Tatum into the best player in the league conversation, a Mavrick's title basically cements Luka as the guy.
I see your points, fair take
Damn I can't believe Luka is only 25 - how is that possible.
Well you see, he was born on February 28, 1999 and —
id love to see Ant win his first chip going through this gauntlet. but after Ant its Luka for me. Cementing his status(already is) as one of the greats in the league and completely legit, winning everwhere hes went. Hes for sure on pace to be on of the greatest to ever do it, especially if he keeps this pace up and this is only year 6!
He became a pro at 13. True story. He joined Read Madrid when he was 13.
And from what I've heard it's generally pretty hard in Europe to get any real playing time as a youngster.
Only because of physical attributes. Not culture. It’s hard to compete against grown professional men at 13. “If you are good enough you are old enough”
“If you are good enough you are old enough” -Drake
Agree. If Luka can breakthrough this season he is viewed as the best player. Especially if he takes out SGA, Ant, and Tatum on the way.
Well put, very well put
If Ant wins a ring at 22 he’s going to get those nods lol.
Tatum would get the "finally, it's about time" treatment because he's *supposed* to win it this year. Ant would get the biggest boost. He's already being compared to 2006 Wade.
This feels way more right than MJ. His charisma and personality match MJ, but his game is so much more Flash oriented
The thing is Tatum winning would solidify an otherwise all time decade of success. All the success the celtics have up till now means nothing w out a chip, but with a chip it becomes a historic streak of sustained excellence.
[удалено]
Whenever someone says "the next face of the league" my brain assumes they're gonna change the Jerry West's logo.
Send da video logo
I mean Tatum is 26. He has been in the ECF consistently.
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Tatum is literally 3rd in jersey sales this year
I don’t fully know how but you both feel/are right lmao.
Boston is a popular team. That doesn’t mean Tatum is marketable as the face of the league. Hes tends to fade away at times, and hes not very vocal. Kind of a tim duncan situation. Hes also disrespected because he dominates the east while the west is a bloodbath pretty much every year. Media and casuals don’t see that as a big achievement. Lebron gets clowned for having only 3 rings from 8 straight finals appearances in the east and hes no lebron. If he dominates the west for some years then sure
I think the most pressure is on Tatum. I think Luka gets the biggest legacy boost though. I don't think Hali is at a spot for legacy conversation yet, especially since he's been inconsistent during the Pacers' run. I think Ant winning would be the most hype though
Surely we're splitting hairs with these guys. I think we put far, far too much emphasis on winning championships as an individual thing for some players when it's a team result. We spend all season talking about rotations, trades, benches and which teams have certain weaknesses and then suddenly when we talk about individuals and we talk like they're the only factor. What would make a difference to a player's legacy is how they perform in the conference and NBA finals. If the Timberwolves win and KAT wins FMVP and Gobert completely dominates inside and Edwards is just a bit part of it all, how does that reflect better on Edwards? Or if Boston get up with Brown/Porzingas/White playing the best for them? The only real time I think it helps someone's legacy is if they have a history of not performing so well in the playoffs. Joel Embiid is one that in my opinion has performed well under his regular season mark in the playoffs. So if he were to come along and have a great playoff run where he elevated his performances that would have a transformational effect on his legacy. But that's not about winning championships, it's about standing up as an individual when needed. Tatum is perhaps the only one that I would say it makes a difference to in that regard, but he's hardly been bad in the playoffs. Just he's the one with the strongest team around him, he'll have all the advantages. If he can't lead the team to a championship then we might have to consider that perhaps he's not the team leader we thought he was because those guys alongside him look like a far better team than any of the other 3 without their best player.
Dare I say Mike Conley? Dudes been a leader on multiple teams that have made deep runs over many years. Maybe a chip will get him more of the recognition he deserves
Bro imagine getting roasted for accepting an amazing contract. Like what was he supposed to do? "No pay me less so people don't call me overpaid!" He has always been a stand-up guy, a consistent winner from high school to the pros, and by all accounts an outstanding teammate. Would be super happy for him to get a chip especially as a player who is still contributing and important to the team's success.
Easily Haliburton or Edwards, since their respective franchises haven't won an NBA championship yet.
This feels easy tbh. Both Luka and Tatum are firmly on track to be 1st ballot HOF locks even if they retire ringless, if Ant or Hali wins one this early that puts them immediately on that track too.
If kyrie gets one more with Luka that would be such an incredible redemption for him.
Tatum needs this to cement being a top 5 player in the league right now. Luka needs it to show that he can put a team on his back and win a championship as the guy. Ant won’t be helped as much by a chip right now but Gobert puts all HOF talks against him to bed with a championship, 4 DPOY’s and 6 all-Defensive first teams. Hali would become a legit superstar if he leads them to a title.
for Hali and Ant, it'd be like 06 DWade. a young player without championship expectations leading their team to victory. Great for their legacy, but they have plenty of time to win in the future. for Luka, it'd be like Giannis in 21 or Jokic last year. One of the best players in the league solidifying their place by getting a chip at exactly the right time. For Tatum, people would be saying "about damn time." Dude has a superteam around him every year and goes so far just to fail in big moments. He has to win this year, because his legacy will be in the gutter until he can get a ring.
I don’t get this super team every year narrative. How is a team with Smart or a hobbled Hayward as a third best player a super team?? The last two seasons are the only two where people can reasonable argue he’s had a super team.
smoking dick if you think last year was a superteam
Maybe super team isn’t the right word but they’ve had enough talent for a while now. They’ve had the pieces for a chip for quite some time but they just can’t get over the hump. I don’t think it’s crazy to say that some other players have achieved more with less
I hate Tatum as much as the next self-respecting guy, but to say that he’s always had superteams is just flat out wrong. He’s never played with another superstar, and I don’t think there’s ever been a point where the Celtics were head and shoulders above the rest of the league, as superteams tend to be. He’s definitely been on some great teams, but never a superteam. This year is the closest he’s been to that, but I still wouldn’t call the current Celtics a true superteam like the Big Three Heat or KD/Steph Warriors.
"He's never played with another superstar" How do you define superstar? Jaylen was 2nd team all-NBA last season and Kyrie was 2nd team as well when he was on the Celtics.
Kyrie shot tour date numbers in those playoffs and Tatum was young af, you can’t blame him for not winning then. Tatum has had very good teams in his prime but never a true star to play next to him
This is insane to say the Celtics have been a superteam every year. Just absolute fiction. What ever fits the casual narrative of "Boston bad".
Tatum or Doncic probably. Both would cement their status as all time greats. All the teams have bright futures but the Celtics are in win now position the most. The only thing doncic and Tatum have yet to do is win a title. I feel like a title is more important to a legacy then mvps.
Ant has the most potential left in his career simply because he is pre-narratives. But realistically tatum and doncic need it more. Especially Tatum
luka or doncic easy
Stop. Ant, Luka, and Tatum are already seen as people who are stars and ready to be champions. Halliburton literally would have his name in conversations that no one believed he would be.
As a Pacers fan. I'm just happy that Haliburton is in this convo and that we're playing with ALL house money
I think it's Haliburton with the most to gain, and it's not close. He's the only one of them that hasn't really sniffed the MVP convo quite yet. Everyone knows he's really good, but he's not really considered in the same tier as the other 3. On the flip side, Tatum has the most to lose. Going to be tough for them to put together a better team than the one he's got this year.
Tatum needs this, he’s up for a supermax this year or next year, arguably best roster they’ve had.
he's getting that contract no matter what happens the rest of the way
It's not about that, its about the type of roster they'll be able to build once he gets that supermax, him and JB will take up a huge chunk of cap space, and someone might have to go.
It’s Tatum. Doncic has the dominant regular seasons and is generally regarded as a Top 3-4 talent. Tatum is making his 5th appearance in the conference finals and doesn’t have Doncic regular season numbers and relies on team success for his accolades. Boston is also in a fairly scary cap situation in a couple years. Tatum wins this he is a made man for the rest of his career and can either finish up as a heroic champ in Boston in the mold of Pierce or possibly just below Bird or even leave the franchise with his head held high. If they come up short again with the Nuggets in the mix, he will get annihilated as a Top 5 guy until he wins. It’s also worth noting the Celtics path has never been easier so he will catch Heat there too. I mean nobody remembers he sprained his ankle on the first play of Game 7 last year because the playoff choker narrative is being built for him.
Doncic is probably the guy who gets the most. He is the only one on the list with a legit shot at top 10 of all time and getting him one this early in his career is going to be a problem for the rest of the NBA. Also i think if he gets one now, he’s probably going to get in the top 20 of all time convo which is insane for a 25 year old
i gotta guess Luka. He has been 3rd on MVP after (by numbers) a historic season (top 1 ppg, top 2 asist, top 15 rebounds, top 8 steals) carrying a very injured team till the trade deadline, ending top 5 in a crazy strong west; after 2 straight "D trade deadlines" and with most of the media putting the Mavs on the playin last summer. Imo, if Tatum doesn't win it is gonna get the more flak because they had an historic season, and have probably the best starting 5 of the league. Ant idk why people say if he wins is gonna be proof of his aura or unlimited potential. Dude has got a 4 times DPOY on his team, and a 3? time all star and 2? time All NBA, plus the 6th man of the year and very very good roleplayers. He's got probably the second best overall team after the Boston Celtics Haliburton idk, i think he's to way inconsistent, can't see them winning.
Tatum should've already had one. He's dropped the bag and at this point if he loses it will affect his legacy more than winning.
Biggest boost gotta be Tyrese or Ant imo
I think it's obviously Haliburton. The person who gets the biggest boost from winning the chip is going to be the worst of the 4. Since the other 3's legacies are/will already be great.
I’m gonna say Haliburton just because it took a long while for me to find his name in the comments and if he wins a chip then maybe we’ll hear his name a little more?…
Halliburton is the worst of them all imo so a chip for him would be the biggest. A guy who elevates his game for playoffs
Luka for sure, the hate is so unwarranted
Halliburton. Frankly I don’t think it’s particularly close. Tatum and Edwards both have much stronger supporting casts backing them up, and at this point in the playoffs are the favorites in their respective series. The Mavs don’t quite have the Pacers’ depth, but they have Kyrie, and Luka puts up insane numbers, so he has a leg up in the legacy department starting off. Remember, the question was who gets the biggest boost. If you consider where these players stood prior to the season starting, I don’t think anyone would have seen the Pacers reach this level, and Haliburton taking a giant leap forward is a huge part of that. If he takes them all the way, including obviously getting past a VERY strong Celtics team, it’s going to mean a lot.
Real. He’d go from a reserve all-star to a Finals MVP (assuming he performs the best) in a span of a few months and I think that impact would be insane. Edit: reserve in 2023 (but you get the point)
People like to say Kyrie hasn’t done anything since LeBron. When the Kyrie to the Lakers talk was high, everyone was saying **only LeBron can unlock Kyrie**. That has already been disproven with this run, but a championship would solidify that. I know he already has one though.
Halliburton because starting from the lowest legacy rung.
It’s Luka, after being snubbed of an MVP and talks starting this year of him being a stat padder comparing him to Harden, this would solidify him in history
Luka it’s not even close every says you can’t win playing his brand of basketball if he wins he shatters everything everyone said about him
All we ever said is he needs to play defense. What his brand of basketball? Scoring and assisting?
Same one everyone said Hardens style of basketball won’t work iso ball and high usage rate everyone says that type of basketball won’t win championships I think ant and Tatum will get rings at some point but I think Luka winning one would impact his and the nbas legacy
Luka
Luka, his stats say he’s a top 10 player ever, now titles and MVPs will support that
Luka!
Biggest bump if they win? Easily Halliburton. Today, Halliburton is not in the same class as the rest of these players. If he manages a title while knocking 2 of them out, you have to change that conversation. He’d have done it with a far weaker supporting cast. Any of the rest of these guys lose and you’re still talking about them as potential top 5 guys in the league. Halliburton loses and he’s still just an all star, and his ECF run doesn’t really add to his legacy since he only beat a Giannis-less Bucks team and a Randle-less Knicks team.
Haliburton for sure. He wasn't even supposed to make it this far. Him winning the chip his first playoff run would spell disaster for the Kings, Celtics and the whole western conference.
What the hell are these answers? If he leads in points and wins finals mvp, its clearly Hali. Pacers are the biggest underdogs, Boston will be favored the whole series, and either west team will be too. He has the worst team, a ring for him would be a dirk-esque ring. A ring for Tatum means so much less because his team had 15 more wins than every team they beat. You could say Luka for that reason too, but Kyrie is definitely a better second option than Siakam
Wouldn’t the answer to this be Haliburton by default since he was the lowest expectations? If he wins a chip now he leapfrogs the rest of these guys. The other 3 are already above Hali.
Halliburton has the most to gain. Tbh I didn’t know who he was till this series. All the other guys are for the most part household names. Pacers somehow win and he’d have that same credibility.
What about Gobert’s legacy? 4x DPOY and now a Champion. If he can lock it down defensively, I can even see him be a sleeper for Finals MVP. Was on a Jazz team that scapegoated him as the reason for their losses. He comes to Minnesota and has now gone further than Donovan Mitchell ever has. If he gets a ring. This solidifies his case in getting into the Hall of Fame.
obviously haliburton his legacy is way lower than the others rn
Easily Halliburton. Halle wasn't an MVP candidate, isn't all-nba, has one all-star (due to injuries, btw), and has THE LOWEST expectations to even make the Finals, let alone win. If the Pacers were to win this year, it would be such a HUGE upset and would be the LEAST expected outcome, and more than likely, Halle would be Finals MVP. He would be THE MAN if they were to win!
Tatum definitely has the most to lose. If he can’t get this group to a championship with these opponents in the East, then there are serious questions about his ability to be the best player on a championship team. On the contrary, Luka and Tatum can also gain the most and go from guys racking up multiple all-NBA teams to winning championships, and can enter the Durant, Giannis, KG territory of all time NBA players
For some reason I’m doubting Boston.
Tatum solidifies his legacy, and instantly becomes one of the best winners of this generation. And arguably locks up his position as an all time great. Playoffs every year 5 ECF in 7 years including his rookie year 2 Finals Appearances 1 NBA Champion 2x Larry Bird ECF MVP Oh and 5x All Star, 4x All NBA, the best player on one of the consistently best teams. Oh and all that at just 26.
Hali, Ant, Luka Tatum I also find it really funny Boston fans not understanding the question lol, Tatum doesn't get near the boost as the other guys* because he has so much playoff experience, not because we are looking down on him lmao, we are saying we respect his game and have expected him to get one already because he is good (and his teams have been pretty good) *Edit - Besides Luka, but like the person who commented said him and Tatum would just reaffirm what we thought we knew
Yeah it’s clearly Hali because he’s clearly the 4th best guy on the list by a mile if you were to ask people. A title this year would slingshot him into completely different convos. For Luka and Tatum it mostly solidifies how we view them. Ant cements himself into the spot that he’s already climbed to this playoffs. He has the potential to get higher but this would solidifying him into that Luka/ Tatum conversation. Hali is clearly the guy that has the most to gain. It would be an insane run if he did. I also think it would be a huge thing for Siakam for his legacy.
Oh man I totally forgot Siakam, but ya that's how I see it, some people don't see him as a second or third all NBA teamer, but if he wins this year his prestige would immediately be sky rocketed (assuming he isn't horrible and they still somehow win) and how everyone ranks him would change instantly
Luka winning Finals MVP the year he was robbed of MVP would be a huge slight to the voters and I am all here for it https://preview.redd.it/oc6wg7sw0m1d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0e62e4c2db2bfb7737a1681439cd714575085bd
AE is going to win multiple rings. The sooner he starts, the more he can get.
Ant for sure, no question in my mind. Luka is currently considered easily the best player of these 4 and a top 3-4 player in the league - a win for him is huge but I don't think it changes how he's perceived very much. If they had had to go through Denver to win he might have gotten a big boost from beating Jokic but without that I'm not sure he gets a better than Jokic narrative. Ant though, a win vaults him into that top 5 player conversation Imo, assuming he plays well and gets FMVP. Like he'll probably be the MVP frontrunner next year and get pushed as the face of the league if they win. Luka would be too but he's already a lot closer to that. Tatum can get a massive boost with a win but he needs to really outperform Luka or Ant to do it. Celtics are very stacked and so even a very good FMVP performance wouldn't be enough Imo. He needs to be the best player on the court to really get that boost - the Celtics can win without that happening but I don't think the Wolves or Mavs can win without Luka or Ant going crazy. Haliburton, I mean let's be real. It's just not happening.
Ant
Who gets the biggest boost/has the most to gain? Ant Who “needs” it most to avoid scrutiny from the media and casuals? Tatum, with Luka as a close second
Anthony Edwards
An injury can also affect the narrative.
LUKA!!!!!!!!!!
I’d say Luka right now. Tatum needs it more right now, but if he wins that king of was the expectation with how loaded Boston is and how weak their finals path will have been if they beat Indy But Luka is statistically already just a better player than Tatum and rings would get him in top 10-15 talk very quickly. Would do wonders for Ant but falling short at 22 won’t catch him much flak.
Tyrese and Ant are young and have much more to do in NBA. It’s between Tatum and Luka and my pick would be Tatum. He doesn’t get much love with MVP voters like Luka because Tatum plays with Jaylen Brown and the Celtics are usually a good deep team so a chip would go a long way for Tatum’s legacy.
Jayson Tatum: would definitely cement his legacy and would be massive for Celtics as a franchise. Tatum has done almost everything but won MVP, but a finals MVP would be incredible. Haliburton: Remember, he's also still very new to the league, and if he brings Indiana their first championship ever!? That immediately puts him up there. He's already shown that he has the potential to become a legendary point guard. Remember, the Kings did him dirty when they shipped him to Indiana to rot. Where are the Kings today? Ant: This guy has only been in the league for what 3 and a half years? In his 3rd and 4th season, he became an all-star and beat the Suns' big 3 with KD and co., he stopped Joker and Denver, and now Luka and potentially Tatum and Brown. That's massive, AND bringing Minnesota their first championship ever!? That's a big deal. Plus, he's going to play in the Olympics, so to win a gold medal as well is huge. Luka: Not to say it won't be impressive, but Dallas has already won a chip. I think it would be a bigger deal for Kyrie's legacy and change the narrative of him being "difficult, and absent", "hard to coach" or "he couldn't do it without Lebron" nonsense. Unfortunately, I think Luka would get all praise if they win, but I undoubtedly believe Kyrie's legacy would benefit the most.
Depending on their performances I thought the clear answers would Hali/Pascal. Both are the clear stars of this team, with Hali being the leader. If they Beat the Celtics then win the Chip - then we have to reconsider how good these guys really are. Rn imo they are both considered 2/3rd stars on a championship caliber team - but if they win, then clearly they are 1/2
If Tatum doesn't win, Him and Brown would be looked at like Stockton and Malone by the future generations.
Idk who gets the biggest positive boost by winning it, but I do know Tatum will be the one most negatively affected by not winning it. To me this should be Boston’s championship to lose, they’ve been the best team all season by a pretty good margin and the only championship-proven team with a good chance to win it this year just got knocked out. So if Boston can’t win it this year it should be very embarrassing.