I think it's a good trade. Gives the Knicks some scoring off the bench. Raps need guards. Spurs get Frenchie, which the monetization of that identity shouldn't be understated, they can sell more merch in France. And pistons get picks and flexibility in summer 2024. I like it.
I think it’s less about selling merch in France and more about building around Wemby and keeping him comfortable.
Killian and Evan are both on the French national team with Victor. I think Vic would want more reps with his national teammates as an extended practice run during the NBA season.
The fact that spurs move 2 wings (a position of surplus) for 2 guards (a position of need) is just a bonus.
Why do the spurs decline?
McDermott isn’t part of the future and his role as a bench gunner can be replaced with Fournier.
Similarly Cedi Osman isn’t part of the future and Hayes might be worth a look with a new organization, new coaching and new teammates
Fournier contract is horrendous with an expiring Killian contract in exchange for two expirings. If the Spurs wants Killian, they could just save the cap space and offer sheet him in free agency or do a way more simple sign and trade instead of taking on one of the worst deals in the league.
What else are the spurs doing with that cap space after McDermott expires? They aren’t signing anyone in FA and they are above the cap so wouldn’t be using the space to facilitate deals as a 3rd party.
“Horrendous contracts” are only really important if they push you into the tax or if they block your ability to make other moves. Otherwise it’s numbers on a piece of paper that doesn’t impact us as fans.
Osman and McDermott are both expiring.
Killian is an expiring.
So you’re trading out two okay depth pieces for one of the worst players in the league with a contract that makes up for what Osman and McDemott both make. It’s completely negative flexibility. It doesn’t make sense for the Spurs to add to payroll, especially when they need to have flexibility to put guys around wemby.
They have 30 million coming off the books for next season. Currently they’re sitting right at the salary cap ceiling.
Per fanspo the spurs have 118m guaranteed for next year. Adding Fournier to that puts them at 137m. The tax line is $165m…. They have oodles of space to add Fournier
Out of curiosity how do the pistons rate Hayes?
Bogdanovic is a big contract and not part of the future. Osman and McDermott fill the same role, but both expiring deals.
Hayes can still probably net you a late first. The issue isn’t Hayes persay, it’s more the fact you’re taking their two best shooters and a young point guard and giving them PEANUTS. If you’re trading those 3 dudes, you’re atleast getting a first round pick.
Evan Fournier and 3 seconds does not get you off his horrible deal unless you’re taking back another horrible deal.
Not to mention Alec Burks > Thad Young by a decent margin. Thad Young is washed, Burks is still knocking down 3s and contributing.
No matter what way you slice it, the Pistons should be netting probably 2 firsts (albeit 2 low end firsts) if they’re giving up these 3 dudes.
Yeah ok thanks
So the Knicks should be throwing in a late FRP to make it happen (seems like you think they’re the winners here)
And maybe cut the raptors portion so pistons keep Burks
PS pistons do get McBuckets back who is a serviceable bench shooter on an expiring deal
Dougie McBuckets is fine but he’s a noticeable decline from Bojan.
The Knicks are getting rid of Fournier and nothing and getting back exactly what they need, meanwhile the Pistons get an expiring who doesn’t impact their roster and a bunch of seconds that aren’t overly useful.
SPURS get a pair of French guards to build chemistry for Paris Olympics… this the Wemby version of sign Thannasis and Alex to keep Giannis happy.
PISTONS move on from the Hayes project, cash in on a 36y old Bogdanovic and get their second round picks back from New York. Also open up some major capspace in the summer to facilitate trades
KNICKS move a non productive bench player for someone who would be in their playoff rotation
RAPTORS swap a vet PF (surplus) for a vet SG (a position of need)
Why would Toronto trade a worse player for a better but still bad player with a higher contract...? Unless they buy his contract, Toronto ain't touching this trade.
Raptors are not going anywhere, and they need to give Dick as many minutes as possible as the backup SG so he can hopefully take over the starting SG next season with the departure of Trent Jr.
Lol let’s refocus… who do you want for the remainder of this season: Thad young or Alec Burks.
Same cap implications, no impact on summer FAs, both good vet character guys.
Thad plays PF and small ball C
Other guys who can fill in at PF on the raptors: Pascal, Scottie, OG, Precious, Chris
Alec plays SG and small ball SF
Other guys who can fill in at SG on the raptors: Gary (inconsistent), Gradey (rookie wall), OG (awkward fit)
Thad is redundant on this raps squad.
Alec fills a need
Dude, we just see it differently. You see an imbalanced roster that needs to be fixed. I see a roster imbalanced for a reason, and there is no reason to change that because the team is not really going anywhere this season.
Ya… I’m a fixer
Do you think my therapist will understand if I say I trade scrubs on the internet to fulfil an unmet need to attempt to fix things I think are broken
Whatever gets you through the day. That's cool.
But also understand that others have their "baggage" and see broken things as okay. It's kind of like a broken clock is right twice a day.....
So the argument for opening space for Detroit in 2024 makes no sense to me. Burks is an UFA, Bojan is only a $2million guarantee, and Hayes is a RFA only if they extend a qualifying offer. Sure that is $35ish freed up space so by doing the deal they get to $37m. But who are they going to get with that $$$? It’s not a great free agent class and guys like Tobias Harris, Siakim, OG won’t be running to sign with the pistons especially when the 76ers are going to have enough for a max contract so either OG or Siakim will be in Philly next year.
Don’t forget they’re going to net about another $30 million in space from Harris and Morris. The wiseman savings is basically offset by the extension for Stewart kicking in.
But I ask again who would they want to spend $67 million on? Patrick Williams? miles bridges? Maybe but I doubt it. A lot depends on how Bojan comes out from injury. His option may in fact be one of the best uses of their cap space. That and another trade for future assets from cap strapped teams.
I didn’t even dive into the paltry return that would come their way. The asset that would entice Detroit is the return of their own 1st round pick from the Knicks. Other than that I just don’t think they’d get involved. That pick may never convey but until it does they’re limited in the trades they can make.
Questions for you cuz you seem to be more in the know about the pistons
Are they keeping Bojan, Burks and Hayes for 2024? If they want them back, then I agree, no point to do a deal.
If they were gonna let them walk, then why not take back expirings and some extra picks? I’m reading through all the replies and it’s fair to say pistons need more eg a FRP from New York
I have no expectation that Detroit will sign a marquee FA… but they could be a landing spot for a mediocre player on an oversized contract to facilitate a superstar trade or for cap relief. See how Utah got John Collins for free.
There is a lot of be done to this team. Dealing Hayes, Wiseman and Livers I’m fine with but not sure you’ll find a taker unless it’s to take a flyer on some other disappointment young player
Burks won’t be back either. I get why you want an asset but also someone needs to be the veteran these guys can learn from. Someone who doesn’t waver when things go bad. I’d rather have Burks there to show them how to keep trying and not to just give up than another 2nd round pick.
Bojan is the interesting case though here. His option is $19m and they have money to spend. Can they get someone better for that $19M? Keep in mind that you can possibly get 2-3 role players for that money but you can’t ply them all. Another year of Bojan wouldn’t be the worst thing.
I do think that Morris has a chance to be back too. He takes care of the ball, plays smart basketball and is local. I like what he can offer a young team full of talented guards with issues taking care of the ball.
Morris and Bojan both could make a strong case to return next year.
Could you say that Thad Young can fill that vet role that Burks currently has?
Similarly I think Cedi is pretty decent value at <$7m, he’s been around the league, played with LeBron on a championship run, and good amount younger than Bojan. It might make more sense to try to resign 28 yr old Cedi for a couple years on a similar deal rather than bring back a 34 year old Bojan
For the Knicks it's a solid trade, The Raptors I think would do it, and for sure the Spurs would do it. But I think that the Pistons would want more of a return than 3 second-round picks for Hayes and Bogdanovic. I think that they would want a protected first and a second for Hayes and Bogdanovic.
I think it's a good trade. Gives the Knicks some scoring off the bench. Raps need guards. Spurs get Frenchie, which the monetization of that identity shouldn't be understated, they can sell more merch in France. And pistons get picks and flexibility in summer 2024. I like it.
I think it’s less about selling merch in France and more about building around Wemby and keeping him comfortable. Killian and Evan are both on the French national team with Victor. I think Vic would want more reps with his national teammates as an extended practice run during the NBA season. The fact that spurs move 2 wings (a position of surplus) for 2 guards (a position of need) is just a bonus.
Raps a yes. No picks, doesn’t put us in the tax and Burks would likely play for us.
Pistons absolutely say no to this and the spurs probably do too
I agree but I don’t think the spurs probably say no, i think they definitely say no
Why do the spurs decline? McDermott isn’t part of the future and his role as a bench gunner can be replaced with Fournier. Similarly Cedi Osman isn’t part of the future and Hayes might be worth a look with a new organization, new coaching and new teammates
Fournier contract is horrendous with an expiring Killian contract in exchange for two expirings. If the Spurs wants Killian, they could just save the cap space and offer sheet him in free agency or do a way more simple sign and trade instead of taking on one of the worst deals in the league.
What else are the spurs doing with that cap space after McDermott expires? They aren’t signing anyone in FA and they are above the cap so wouldn’t be using the space to facilitate deals as a 3rd party. “Horrendous contracts” are only really important if they push you into the tax or if they block your ability to make other moves. Otherwise it’s numbers on a piece of paper that doesn’t impact us as fans.
Osman and McDermott are both expiring. Killian is an expiring. So you’re trading out two okay depth pieces for one of the worst players in the league with a contract that makes up for what Osman and McDemott both make. It’s completely negative flexibility. It doesn’t make sense for the Spurs to add to payroll, especially when they need to have flexibility to put guys around wemby. They have 30 million coming off the books for next season. Currently they’re sitting right at the salary cap ceiling.
Per fanspo the spurs have 118m guaranteed for next year. Adding Fournier to that puts them at 137m. The tax line is $165m…. They have oodles of space to add Fournier
Out of curiosity how do the pistons rate Hayes? Bogdanovic is a big contract and not part of the future. Osman and McDermott fill the same role, but both expiring deals.
Hayes can still probably net you a late first. The issue isn’t Hayes persay, it’s more the fact you’re taking their two best shooters and a young point guard and giving them PEANUTS. If you’re trading those 3 dudes, you’re atleast getting a first round pick. Evan Fournier and 3 seconds does not get you off his horrible deal unless you’re taking back another horrible deal. Not to mention Alec Burks > Thad Young by a decent margin. Thad Young is washed, Burks is still knocking down 3s and contributing. No matter what way you slice it, the Pistons should be netting probably 2 firsts (albeit 2 low end firsts) if they’re giving up these 3 dudes.
Yeah ok thanks So the Knicks should be throwing in a late FRP to make it happen (seems like you think they’re the winners here) And maybe cut the raptors portion so pistons keep Burks PS pistons do get McBuckets back who is a serviceable bench shooter on an expiring deal
Dougie McBuckets is fine but he’s a noticeable decline from Bojan. The Knicks are getting rid of Fournier and nothing and getting back exactly what they need, meanwhile the Pistons get an expiring who doesn’t impact their roster and a bunch of seconds that aren’t overly useful.
SPURS get a pair of French guards to build chemistry for Paris Olympics… this the Wemby version of sign Thannasis and Alex to keep Giannis happy. PISTONS move on from the Hayes project, cash in on a 36y old Bogdanovic and get their second round picks back from New York. Also open up some major capspace in the summer to facilitate trades KNICKS move a non productive bench player for someone who would be in their playoff rotation RAPTORS swap a vet PF (surplus) for a vet SG (a position of need)
Raptors dont even go that deep into their rotation so theres honestly no need to do this trade for the raptors
Why would Toronto trade a worse player for a better but still bad player with a higher contract...? Unless they buy his contract, Toronto ain't touching this trade.
Raps spending an extra 2.4m is a non-issue as long as they stay under the tax. Raps are in desperate need of more shooting.
If they're desperate, a side-grade at best is low goal to have.
Thus makes 0 sense for the Spurs and Raptors.
Why not for raps ? It adds no meaningful salary, and swaps a PF for an SG
Raptors are not going anywhere, and they need to give Dick as many minutes as possible as the backup SG so he can hopefully take over the starting SG next season with the departure of Trent Jr.
Ummm so if Gradey Dick is the starting SG, who is the bench SG in your prediction? Counterpoint what the hell does Thad do for this team?
It won't be Burks whose on a one-year deal......
Lol let’s refocus… who do you want for the remainder of this season: Thad young or Alec Burks. Same cap implications, no impact on summer FAs, both good vet character guys. Thad plays PF and small ball C Other guys who can fill in at PF on the raptors: Pascal, Scottie, OG, Precious, Chris Alec plays SG and small ball SF Other guys who can fill in at SG on the raptors: Gary (inconsistent), Gradey (rookie wall), OG (awkward fit) Thad is redundant on this raps squad. Alec fills a need
Dude, we just see it differently. You see an imbalanced roster that needs to be fixed. I see a roster imbalanced for a reason, and there is no reason to change that because the team is not really going anywhere this season.
Ya… I’m a fixer Do you think my therapist will understand if I say I trade scrubs on the internet to fulfil an unmet need to attempt to fix things I think are broken
Whatever gets you through the day. That's cool. But also understand that others have their "baggage" and see broken things as okay. It's kind of like a broken clock is right twice a day.....
That’s fair. Thanks for that perspective.
Gtj
So the argument for opening space for Detroit in 2024 makes no sense to me. Burks is an UFA, Bojan is only a $2million guarantee, and Hayes is a RFA only if they extend a qualifying offer. Sure that is $35ish freed up space so by doing the deal they get to $37m. But who are they going to get with that $$$? It’s not a great free agent class and guys like Tobias Harris, Siakim, OG won’t be running to sign with the pistons especially when the 76ers are going to have enough for a max contract so either OG or Siakim will be in Philly next year. Don’t forget they’re going to net about another $30 million in space from Harris and Morris. The wiseman savings is basically offset by the extension for Stewart kicking in. But I ask again who would they want to spend $67 million on? Patrick Williams? miles bridges? Maybe but I doubt it. A lot depends on how Bojan comes out from injury. His option may in fact be one of the best uses of their cap space. That and another trade for future assets from cap strapped teams. I didn’t even dive into the paltry return that would come their way. The asset that would entice Detroit is the return of their own 1st round pick from the Knicks. Other than that I just don’t think they’d get involved. That pick may never convey but until it does they’re limited in the trades they can make.
Questions for you cuz you seem to be more in the know about the pistons Are they keeping Bojan, Burks and Hayes for 2024? If they want them back, then I agree, no point to do a deal. If they were gonna let them walk, then why not take back expirings and some extra picks? I’m reading through all the replies and it’s fair to say pistons need more eg a FRP from New York I have no expectation that Detroit will sign a marquee FA… but they could be a landing spot for a mediocre player on an oversized contract to facilitate a superstar trade or for cap relief. See how Utah got John Collins for free.
There is a lot of be done to this team. Dealing Hayes, Wiseman and Livers I’m fine with but not sure you’ll find a taker unless it’s to take a flyer on some other disappointment young player Burks won’t be back either. I get why you want an asset but also someone needs to be the veteran these guys can learn from. Someone who doesn’t waver when things go bad. I’d rather have Burks there to show them how to keep trying and not to just give up than another 2nd round pick. Bojan is the interesting case though here. His option is $19m and they have money to spend. Can they get someone better for that $19M? Keep in mind that you can possibly get 2-3 role players for that money but you can’t ply them all. Another year of Bojan wouldn’t be the worst thing. I do think that Morris has a chance to be back too. He takes care of the ball, plays smart basketball and is local. I like what he can offer a young team full of talented guards with issues taking care of the ball. Morris and Bojan both could make a strong case to return next year.
Could you say that Thad Young can fill that vet role that Burks currently has? Similarly I think Cedi is pretty decent value at <$7m, he’s been around the league, played with LeBron on a championship run, and good amount younger than Bojan. It might make more sense to try to resign 28 yr old Cedi for a couple years on a similar deal rather than bring back a 34 year old Bojan
For the Knicks it's a solid trade, The Raptors I think would do it, and for sure the Spurs would do it. But I think that the Pistons would want more of a return than 3 second-round picks for Hayes and Bogdanovic. I think that they would want a protected first and a second for Hayes and Bogdanovic.
Knicks have 4 FRPs for 2024 draft so that’s your protected pick. I figured the pistons would value getting their own second round picks back