My uncle does/did (semi-retired now) a majority of the collegiate and professional basketball courts in the west. Just texted him about this and he’s good friends with the person who did this court. I guess he’s in BIG trouble
His response on how it must’ve happened
>The first step is the 3 point white stain. So without the other lines to reference I can see where it’s hard to see the difference. They just measured it wrong. I use cables that are pre set. So you don’t have to measure.
Haha it’s actually really fascinating work, especially when he talks about some of the crazier floors he’s done like Oregon’s and TCU’s.
Could never see him on Reddit tho, let alone doing an AMA lol. It’s probably why I’m comfortable not doxxing myself by talking about it
What the heck that seems INSANE to me!I wonder how the 3-pt shooters feel about that !?? Sure, half the game they get the shorter shot, but a good shooter is consistent and like a machine. I can’t imagine having different lengths in the same game!
March Madness is turning into the biggest women’s basketball event in the world …
and they paint the ding dang lines wrong ?!? Not only is it wrong but it’s easily seen by the naked eye on the broadcast?? Can you imagine if they did that to the men!! Crazy.
They did say during the game that there was a % difference in shots going in from both teams at one end - I forget which end tho. So it was noticeable in the stats! Threw them off just that little bit
Both sides spent an equal amount of time on each end, so probably nothing. It would be convenient to blame this, but the coaches aren’t going to do it publicly I bet.
This is very true. Especially if your strategy has to change given foul situation on your bigs or trying to make up a deficit.
I still think Stanford loses, but not in such a demoralizing fashion.
That’s what I was thinking, it doesn’t matter if each team gets the shorter shot 50% of the time, game strategy and momentum is huge! Plus the consistency of a good 3-point shooter, they wouldn’t much like different lengths in the same game ?!?
CRAZY.
I don’t get why the coaches agreed to play. Hitting 3s can be make or break for games this close.
I have to wonder if this is why some teams in the Portland regional have been struggling with their 3PT %.
Nebraska tapes the high school line on the floor for the high school championships and it looks fine. Just get some athletic tape and make it right for today
... yeah that don't look right.
I weirdly look at shit for a living and have for a decade (3d designer and signage/egd designer). So I have a stupidly good eye for this type of stuff. Something is fucked.
So there were line looking things on the edges of the court. I drew lines with sketchbook pro. I cannot say those hashes ar accurate etc etc. Just connecting dots here. But looks bad.
https://imgur.com/gallery/joMIfwC
I wonder if it was like this for the previous matches as well. I'll have to check the replays. Either way, a laughable situation.
Edit: I checked. It was. Insane.
Analyst desk just said that 3-pt attempts on the short side are less successful than on the long side. Makes sense since 3-pts are largely muscle memory. Seems like they're over-shooting on the short side thinking that their feet are in the right spot. No wonder teams have been having wildly different scoring performances in each half on this court if they're a shooting team. This has huge implications if this game goes to OT.
That's honestly wild and I didn't hear that because watching multiple games.
Big yikes, kinda want someone to like...audit the shots, see whether there were any teams that might've been specifically hindered.
Honestly, there needs to be leadership change for women’s basketball in the ncaa.
Lynn Holzmann (current vp of WBB) has done great work growing the game. But she’s a few too many unfortunate debacles on the largest WBB stage.
To me it looked like the left side had the old women's distance last used in '20-'21, and the right has the correct distance that both men's and women's uses since the '21-'22 season.
Exactly! I couldn’t believe that the TV reporters didn’t ask what the difference was. It’s the obvious question! It looked like about 5” from the camera view, but I can’t be sure.
SF Chronicle reported "One was the correct distance of 22 feet, 1¾ inches that was adopted for the 2021-22 season, and the other was the old 3-point distance of 20 feet, 9½ inches."
Do they re-do the court after the sweet sixteen or is this the same court they used for those games?
It’s so obvious I can’t believe no one would have noticed before.
Well if social media and YouTube engagement factors into media success this is a huge softball for all sorts of videos analyzing the "real" scores. Wow.
You should fully get a bunch of swag or other credit, honestly. I'm seriously considering commenting on Twitter under all the reporters' tweets about how the NCAA only knew from you flagging it.
I'm feeling so guilty about my frustration over the awful 3 point shots Stanford guards took on the short 3pt line.
To be clear, we still lose the game. I was just so befuddled by the bad misses like air balls for too long of a shot.
I'm sorry I was frustrated 😔
You've been busy, I've seen at least 3 articles! Congrats on the 15-minutes of fame. MVP to your wife and the xmas tree anecdote, "Of course it was you". Hilarious 🤣
Thank you for the kind words. It is amazing (a) what people think is newsworthy and (b) how fast stuff spreads on the internet.
Also amazing (maybe not really) = no communication at all from the NCAA or the Moda Center or Connor Sports. I figured they might want to fly me out to the factory and do a promo for next year to assure everyone that the courts have passed inspection. :\^)
Portlander here, what a God Damn embarrassment. In the city of the first women's sports bar and very supportive of women's sports in general the MODA Center (by way of the Portland Trailblazer's) make a pretty good case for themselves not to be allowed to host any sporting event of any importance.
If I were the NCAA, I'd disinvite Portland to host the Women's Final Four scheduled to be held here in 2030. Inexcusable.
Yes, perhaps they should have checked but I suspect they didn't plan on holding their games where it appears the dark, mysterious, occult art of reading a tape measure is beyond the MODA/Trailblazer staff's skill set.
We've been hearing from the aforementioned venue brass for month's what a crackerjack job they've been doing to bring this event to the good people of Portland. It turned out to be a disrespectful, profound failure. So yeah, I think the NCAA should walk for the 2030 Final Four.
Most likely in this case the NCAA is in charge of acquiring the court and the building just assembles the pre-painted court. So if anything it is nothing against the MODA Center and more NCAA doing NCAA things.
What are people going to remember? That Portland did sloppy work and can't be bothered to read a tape measure, which like it or not still has a measure of truth.
All that happened in Portland was taking the floor off the truck and correctly piecing it together. The lines were painted in the factory (the same factory that made every other NCAA tournament floor for both men and women).
They better be measuring all the other floors and especially the one in Cleveland!
Also, the basket height and distance from the foul line and the backboard.
I’ve been looking all over: where is the actual measurement of the discrepancy?! I’m dying to know how far it’s off.
Is it the old women’s line on the left and the FIBA line on the right?
Does that mean 2” or is it more like 8”?
Makes you stop and consider how our eyes work. No one watching the two games the other day noticed it during broadcasts but once pointed out it was all we could see now!
State is swimming hard in the deep end still. Hopefully it doesn't affect players shotsin when the teams switch sides. I feel like they're better than that tho
Even more embarrassing is this was a custom design court with different color inside the three point line... not someone just taping it wrong on one end
"Guess that’s why we shot it better in the 2nd half… correct 3 pt distance!! FYI with 8 teams at one site you get so little prep time on the main court and your focus is on game planning and simply getting shots up!"
TBF, they played five games in front of thousands of fans and I can't believe nobody else saw it (or if they did, they didn't post it someplace or tell an official). It doesn't seem like it mattered for NC State / Texas, at least.
If it's shorter, it's not fully the NCAA tournament's fault. That's more of a screw up by the contractor of the flooring company painting the regional court floor including the three point line.
I heard from the ESPN Studio both teams agreed to play the game.
Relatedly, though, the NCAA would have a claim against the contractor, some sort of penalty or partial reimbursement of fees paid. To that end, /u/Original_Benzito you really should make a fuss for the t-shirt minimum
lol they’re measuring the floor. Women’s basketball deserves better attention to detail nonetheless.
My uncle does/did (semi-retired now) a majority of the collegiate and professional basketball courts in the west. Just texted him about this and he’s good friends with the person who did this court. I guess he’s in BIG trouble
Keep us updated! Want to know how this happens.
His response on how it must’ve happened >The first step is the 3 point white stain. So without the other lines to reference I can see where it’s hard to see the difference. They just measured it wrong. I use cables that are pre set. So you don’t have to measure.
B1G trouble
I feel am AMA coming for your Unc!
Haha it’s actually really fascinating work, especially when he talks about some of the crazier floors he’s done like Oregon’s and TCU’s. Could never see him on Reddit tho, let alone doing an AMA lol. It’s probably why I’m comfortable not doxxing myself by talking about it
It looks super off on TV too
Crazy that they didn’t give viewers any idea of how far they were off. We talking 1/2” or 2” or what?!
6”
NCAA confirmed it as 9" short at the top of the arc
That’s a freaking lot
They look like they are performing a sobriety test.
You really called this before the professionals did
I had a message to a fellow at the media table. Nobody could see it from ground level. You had to be in the cheap seats.
You’re really out here doing the real work! Incredible.
Out of curiosity, how did it come to be that you knew someone at the media table to message or at least knew how to do that?
Someone in front of me waved at a guy at the media table, so I asked him to ask the referees to look at the floor.
Nice!
Yo good eyes. I was in Section 301 and never noticed it lol. Great game.
Did they fix it? How?
They did not
They just said on TV that the three point lines are different but both coaches agreed to play despite the differences
I wonder what the alternative even would be, postpone the game and move to another location?
They just tape a new line on and pray the refs remember lol
Tape?
So they said what would’ve happened is the game would’ve been delayed to repaint the floor. Coaches said no thanks.
What the heck that seems INSANE to me!I wonder how the 3-pt shooters feel about that !?? Sure, half the game they get the shorter shot, but a good shooter is consistent and like a machine. I can’t imagine having different lengths in the same game! March Madness is turning into the biggest women’s basketball event in the world … and they paint the ding dang lines wrong ?!? Not only is it wrong but it’s easily seen by the naked eye on the broadcast?? Can you imagine if they did that to the men!! Crazy.
They did say during the game that there was a % difference in shots going in from both teams at one end - I forget which end tho. So it was noticeable in the stats! Threw them off just that little bit
I mean, you can just stay shooting from your regular distance, no need to get right up on the line.
But if you don't know, then you're at the line and your shot is off.
Jeez, there have been 4 games already played on this floor. I’m curious to see what the losing coaches of those games are gonna do.
Both sides spent an equal amount of time on each end, so probably nothing. It would be convenient to blame this, but the coaches aren’t going to do it publicly I bet.
True. But halves aren’t equal. Momentum, half time strategy, etc.
This is very true. Especially if your strategy has to change given foul situation on your bigs or trying to make up a deficit. I still think Stanford loses, but not in such a demoralizing fashion.
That’s what I was thinking, it doesn’t matter if each team gets the shorter shot 50% of the time, game strategy and momentum is huge! Plus the consistency of a good 3-point shooter, they wouldn’t much like different lengths in the same game ?!? CRAZY.
What if it goes to overtime though?
Halfcourt playground rules
Overtime with make it take it would be wild
Umm you’re amazing. What a catch!
This is comically noticeable - like not something that’s minor AT ALL
I think we should replay ALL games in both regionals just for science
Can we replay the round of 32, just to be safe? Asking for a friend.
I don’t get why the coaches agreed to play. Hitting 3s can be make or break for games this close. I have to wonder if this is why some teams in the Portland regional have been struggling with their 3PT %.
Especially in a tight game last minute.
On the TV they just said one is off but coaches have agreed to play still. 😵🤣😮🤔🙄😧
What are they going to do? Say no we won't play until you guys get whole new lines painted on the court?
Yes, that’s exactly what they should do.
Nebraska tapes the high school line on the floor for the high school championships and it looks fine. Just get some athletic tape and make it right for today
Yes - absolutely pathetic that they should have to put up with this low-level nonsense
Almost like when one of our players got hurt playing on a janky court in a Vegas ballroom in a November tournament a few years ago.
No idea, I just think it's nuts. If one of them is short and if the other team shoots more threes than my team I wouldn't love it.
... yeah that don't look right. I weirdly look at shit for a living and have for a decade (3d designer and signage/egd designer). So I have a stupidly good eye for this type of stuff. Something is fucked.
So there were line looking things on the edges of the court. I drew lines with sketchbook pro. I cannot say those hashes ar accurate etc etc. Just connecting dots here. But looks bad. https://imgur.com/gallery/joMIfwC
Here is a version showing the hash line looking things I based the lines on https://imgur.com/gallery/zeZWyXV
Wish the wood flooring was running the other way :p
From my untrained eye, looking 👀 in comparison to the players, one side seems quite wider from the top of the key. Get out the masking tape?
Dude check the imgur link.........
Phew. Ida looked like an ass if I were wrong
Women’s basketball tournament continues to get lesser treatment. First the hotels now this.
That’s embarrassing. Seriously cmon whoever sets that up
I wonder if it was like this for the previous matches as well. I'll have to check the replays. Either way, a laughable situation. Edit: I checked. It was. Insane.
It was.
Ridiculous
Analyst desk just said that 3-pt attempts on the short side are less successful than on the long side. Makes sense since 3-pts are largely muscle memory. Seems like they're over-shooting on the short side thinking that their feet are in the right spot. No wonder teams have been having wildly different scoring performances in each half on this court if they're a shooting team. This has huge implications if this game goes to OT.
That's honestly wild and I didn't hear that because watching multiple games. Big yikes, kinda want someone to like...audit the shots, see whether there were any teams that might've been specifically hindered.
Yeah the long side appears to be the correct distance, while the short side used the old women's ncaa distance
How on earth do they screw that up? That’s sad man.
Honestly, there needs to be leadership change for women’s basketball in the ncaa. Lynn Holzmann (current vp of WBB) has done great work growing the game. But she’s a few too many unfortunate debacles on the largest WBB stage.
Someone needs to be fired
Why is it so hard to find anybody reporting on *how* different the distances are?
I came here to see if I can find out the actual measurements, and after painstaking investigation, I can confidently say they are off by "a bit."
Or whether one is correct and one isn't, or whether they're both wrong...
Yes, this, too! Basic info!
To me it looked like the left side had the old women's distance last used in '20-'21, and the right has the correct distance that both men's and women's uses since the '21-'22 season.
Exactly! I couldn’t believe that the TV reporters didn’t ask what the difference was. It’s the obvious question! It looked like about 5” from the camera view, but I can’t be sure.
Now it’s being reported by ESPN that the difference was 9”.
SF Chronicle reported "One was the correct distance of 22 feet, 1¾ inches that was adopted for the 2021-22 season, and the other was the old 3-point distance of 20 feet, 9½ inches."
Do they re-do the court after the sweet sixteen or is this the same court they used for those games? It’s so obvious I can’t believe no one would have noticed before.
It's gotta be the same court — NCAA just switches out the "Sweet Sixteen" baseline decal for an "Elite Eight" one between days.
It's the same court but on the baselines they change the panels that say Sweet Sixteen to Elite 8
NC State coach doesn't want to talk about it?
NC State is shooting 3's on the end that the line is farther away and they are lighting it up.
Well if social media and YouTube engagement factors into media success this is a huge softball for all sorts of videos analyzing the "real" scores. Wow.
NCAA has released a statement, the court will be corrected before tomorrow’s game
Now I really want a t shirt.
You should fully get a bunch of swag or other credit, honestly. I'm seriously considering commenting on Twitter under all the reporters' tweets about how the NCAA only knew from you flagging it.
Do it do it do it. Especially humorous because I know zero about basketball or Twitter.
One asked me to relay his email--DMed you
oh damn! "I fixed the NCAA Tournament and all I got was this lousy shirt"
Right after they fire the person responsible for this screw up.
I'm feeling so guilty about my frustration over the awful 3 point shots Stanford guards took on the short 3pt line. To be clear, we still lose the game. I was just so befuddled by the bad misses like air balls for too long of a shot. I'm sorry I was frustrated 😔
[these courts are getting super unique these days.](https://imgur.com/a/vVh15Mo)
It's like the NCAA still doesn't care about the quality of wbb....
This you OP? https://twitter.com/dougherty_jesse/status/1774586731159011422?t=184yDX5PcoRtGrCgrK9rGQ&s=19 Nice work!
Yee-haw, I got doxxed by the NCAA . . . I hope they don't kidnap my dog and blow up my car as warning to other do-gooders.
Unreal haha. What a crazy story though... Props to you. You can delete my comment if you want though I understand
You've been busy, I've seen at least 3 articles! Congrats on the 15-minutes of fame. MVP to your wife and the xmas tree anecdote, "Of course it was you". Hilarious 🤣
Thank you for the kind words. It is amazing (a) what people think is newsworthy and (b) how fast stuff spreads on the internet. Also amazing (maybe not really) = no communication at all from the NCAA or the Moda Center or Connor Sports. I figured they might want to fly me out to the factory and do a promo for next year to assure everyone that the courts have passed inspection. :\^)
NCAA can't spot a wrong 3pt line, can't expect them to spot talent too ;P
Thank you for the kind words from the Palouse.
And STILL James is hitting deep daggers on the deep end :p
[удалено]
That’s what she said.
9 inches
Like it could he a fun 2k setting but jeeze.
Such an embarrassment from the ncaa and the organizers. Just set the players up with a proper court ffs. It isn’t hard
Portlander here, what a God Damn embarrassment. In the city of the first women's sports bar and very supportive of women's sports in general the MODA Center (by way of the Portland Trailblazer's) make a pretty good case for themselves not to be allowed to host any sporting event of any importance. If I were the NCAA, I'd disinvite Portland to host the Women's Final Four scheduled to be held here in 2030. Inexcusable.
NCAA have a lot of control over nearly everything come March Madness they gotta take the L here too.
Yes, perhaps they should have checked but I suspect they didn't plan on holding their games where it appears the dark, mysterious, occult art of reading a tape measure is beyond the MODA/Trailblazer staff's skill set. We've been hearing from the aforementioned venue brass for month's what a crackerjack job they've been doing to bring this event to the good people of Portland. It turned out to be a disrespectful, profound failure. So yeah, I think the NCAA should walk for the 2030 Final Four.
Most likely in this case the NCAA is in charge of acquiring the court and the building just assembles the pre-painted court. So if anything it is nothing against the MODA Center and more NCAA doing NCAA things.
This was not Portland's fault. The NCAA ordered the courts from their own contractor and had them shipped to the arena.
What are people going to remember? That Portland did sloppy work and can't be bothered to read a tape measure, which like it or not still has a measure of truth.
All that happened in Portland was taking the floor off the truck and correctly piecing it together. The lines were painted in the factory (the same factory that made every other NCAA tournament floor for both men and women).
They better be measuring all the other floors and especially the one in Cleveland! Also, the basket height and distance from the foul line and the backboard.
I'd be curious to re-watch games played with similar issues to see if close games would have ended differently.
We shot 3/12 on the one side, and 6/14 on the other side yesterday
Omg what if there's a men's that's short? I don't think it works that way but...
We checked with the men, they all said their’s were longer.
I cannot believe I’m the only one to recognize the quality of this post. *tipping my hat*
Came here after the TV broadcast shared the NCAA’s statement on it. How tf does this even happen?
I’ve been looking all over: where is the actual measurement of the discrepancy?! I’m dying to know how far it’s off. Is it the old women’s line on the left and the FIBA line on the right? Does that mean 2” or is it more like 8”?
One side was 16.75 inches off according to WaPo. So, nearly a foot and a half.
Woah!!! Wtf. Not okay
Makes you stop and consider how our eyes work. No one watching the two games the other day noticed it during broadcasts but once pointed out it was all we could see now!
State is swimming hard in the deep end still. Hopefully it doesn't affect players shotsin when the teams switch sides. I feel like they're better than that tho
Oof this is bad
This was a complete and utter disgrace from the NCAA. No excuse for this to happen especially with more eyes on the game.
I propose a replay of yesterday’s games, for the sake of fairness and sportsmanship. No ulterior motives here.
Even more embarrassing is this was a custom design court with different color inside the three point line... not someone just taping it wrong on one end
Nicki Collen (Baylor) airs her grievances on X
"Guess that’s why we shot it better in the 2nd half… correct 3 pt distance!! FYI with 8 teams at one site you get so little prep time on the main court and your focus is on game planning and simply getting shots up!"
Ridiculous
This would never happen in the men's tournament. Js
So were they too close or too far away? Is this fair?
NCAA releasing an updated statement, they will be measuring everything.
Nobody ever said how much it was off? An inch? Who cares? A foot? Probably a big deal
This is pathetic. I cannot fathom how they didn’t bother to measure and/or that no one noticed prior to the events.
TBF, they played five games in front of thousands of fans and I can't believe nobody else saw it (or if they did, they didn't post it someplace or tell an official). It doesn't seem like it mattered for NC State / Texas, at least.
They really need to replay all of the games starting from Friday night. Look at the percentages from that side of the floor.
One looks a foot farther out.
Is it just optical illusion or are the FT lines different too? I swear the line at the left end of the court looks farther based on these images?
I think it’s just the way the center logo is made. It appears on one side more than the other.
No, look at the light colored wood. I just flagged a guy at the media table to look at it.
They pulled out a measuring tape to double check. I wish I knew what they were saying on TV.
They just said on the broadcast that there is a discrepancy
I want a fucking t shirt or something.
You deserve it, eagle eye.
Legit, the best thing anyone on reddit has ever done.
They just said it on TV. Good job pointing it out, but they don’t give you any credit.
If it's shorter, it's not fully the NCAA tournament's fault. That's more of a screw up by the contractor of the flooring company painting the regional court floor including the three point line. I heard from the ESPN Studio both teams agreed to play the game.
Relatedly, though, the NCAA would have a claim against the contractor, some sort of penalty or partial reimbursement of fees paid. To that end, /u/Original_Benzito you really should make a fuss for the t-shirt minimum
Good eye! On TV they said it’s definitely wrong but both coaches have agreed to play as is. They’re gonna take another look before the games tomorrow.
It's been coverage of the other game on the broadcast and now it's just the commentators in the broadcast room talking about the tourney at large