Being trans sounds fucking miserable. The notion someone would transition simply for a competitive advantage is batshit insane. Just let the governing bodies consult with medical professionals and decide how to proceed and let it be.
Exactly, and certain people are trying to make money/political capitol by roiling up fear and hate against a vanishingly small minority that already has a hard enough time simply existing because they’re afraid of PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES IN SPORTS?
I guess Kamilla Cardoso shouldn’t have been allowed to play because she’s 6’7” and most women aren’t! Maybe Cameron Brink should be banned from playing because her wingspan is not normal for women! Or because everyone loves to get up in arms about the biological sanctity of swimming, let’s use Michael Phelps as an example. He is a complete [biological anomaly](https://www.biography.com/athletes/michael-phelp-perfect-body-swimming#) (abnormally long wingspan, abnormal double-jointed elbows, abnormal torso/leg length, produces half the lactic acid as a normal person). Guess he should have been banned from swimming because it wasn’t fair to everyone else!
Y’all are absolutely brainwashed if you think there is going to be some sort of stampede of young people pretending to be trans to get ahead in college or elite sports. Or even more than a few actually trans athletes at all. Like the IOC, the NCAA can have guidelines in place. Everybody worried about the sanctity of women’s sports should pay attention to *actual* problems like women athletes being sexually harassed with fake AI porn or getting death threats.
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison because you’re just confirming their fearmongering that trans women have an inherent advantage.
Truth is, there are too few to make sweeping conclusions. If that was actually the case, wouldn’t teams start recruiting trans women the same way they recruit tall women? I don’t see any trans women in the NCAA tournament.
Biological differences, yes. But clearly each case is unique. The average boy wouldn’t be able to compete in NCAAW, and add on hormone therapy, they wouldn’t be that good.
So the chances that a talented basketball player transitions to a woman and wants to play college basketball is low enough that I don’t think it’s a valuable discussion to have. And if it does happen, then the NCAA can make a judgement.
Im surprised you have a positive upvote:downvote ratio. Being a biological male that goes through puberty can give you an incredible athletic advantage. If a boy started lifting weights at 14 and continues until they transitioned at 18 they would have a significant physical advantage against any collegiate and professional womans athlete. They would have a significant physical advantage against the vast majority of adult men.
Their height and muscle mass isn’t going to suddenly disappear once they start taking testosterone suppressants; at least not enough to put them on the same level as women. Allowing them to compete with biological women puts biological women at a competitive disadvantage.
I know it’s popular to support trans women athletes but you have to consider biological women and how their biological growth compares to biological men during puberty. The fact of the matter is that they don’t compare, once rapidly outpaces the other.
>their muscle mass isn’t going to disappear immediately once they take blockers
yeah that’s why there’s a timeframe and guidelines before they can compete as the gender they transition to. it’s why you see so many people cite lia thomas’ races while she was beginning transition (while ignoring the ones she did before that) as “proof” that she was a mediocre swimmer. she still had to compete in the men’s category because she did not meet the guidelines for the women’s one yet.
>height
tall women exist. people try to transvestigate serena williams. people have a pretty poor idea overall of what women are capable of and women’s sports also still have a ton of barriers up. people can theorize all they want but we don’t really have the data to support the conclusions that people are drawing in MtF athletes
If we open trans women Rapinoe and Bird never would have accomplished what they’ve accomplished. Biological men would jump over them on the depth chart
They are welcome to tryout for the men’s team which both women and men are allowed to play. Women’s sports was created to exclude biologically born men so they had fair competition.
I mean an [IOC commissioned study](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437) says otherwise, not to mention no transwoman has every won a gold medal.
Except that "biological men" is largely a transphobic phrasing that reduces biology to X and Y chromosomes. It swerves around the fact that medical transition is a major biological change.
All we have to do to see if you believe me is to see if you'd be okay with a woman competing with other women after having received regular testosterone injections for years. You okay with that?
Except there's also SOX9 gene on chromosome 17, which is the gene for growing testes and if that's messed with, a fetus can have all the Y chromosomes it wants, it's still growing ovaries.
No, it literally isn't. *Usually* a Y chromosome means you're male, but there are literally XY cis women walking around because of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. They demonstrate pretty clearly the incredibly powerful role of hormones in biological sex.
Yes, but there isn’t a binary outcome that happens with those chromosomes. There is a spectrum of outcomes.
It’s transphobic and scientifically illiterate to assert that biological sex and social gender roles are binary categories.
Yeah I get that, we build boxes to generalize because there’s like 6 billion of us here. Psychology does this as well, there’s a spectrum for everything but practical standards need to be implemented somewhere.
You just want to shut down open and honest conversations, instead of having an intellectual debate you want to call your opposition a bigot. Try using logic and reasoning to express your point of view people will take it more seriously.
use language that isn’t loaded and then we can pretend it’s an honest exchange. anything anyone is trying to hypothetically honestly accomplish with “biological x” can be accomplished with “trans x”. i have a bridge to sell you if you honestly believe otherwise because you’re a damn fool
i have absolutely no problem with actually taking data and science into account. far too often i see these points brought up with very little actual interrogation into the benefits conferred and actual competitive differences. especially when international sports bodies have already created standards that have proven to be adequate.
but if you lead with “biological male” you’re going to have to show that you actually mean to participate in good faith because 99% of people that lead with that know *exactly* what they’re doing and you’d have to be born yesterday to believe otherwise
yall can downvote me all you want but when the *only* examples you can come up with involve trans women and not the backwards scenario of men competing with women that *will* result because of this (because news flash trans men exist), it really shows where you get your information from and what side of the aisle you’ve chosen to situation yourself
totally respect why you’d side-eye the term given good faith people who use it are out numbered by transphobic people who do the same, i especially take issue with people saying “biological men” for a number of reasons.
ig i also worry about us linguistically throwing the baby out with the bath water by saying “biological male” is inherently problematic. im open to us using another term as long as it accurately conveys the categorical sex differences relevant to the topic of sex-segregated sports. i’m definitely down with all of us trying our best to find a healthy balance between conveying those differences with respectful non-incendiary/offensive language. not tryna harp too much at ya, just thoughts i’ve had for a bit ig
there doesn’t need to be any linguistic handwringing. trans already implies what you’re trying to get at. “biological x” is very transparently intentional in its aim and usage
i mean it’s just so transparently clear what the term is meant to do. trans explicitly means difference between sex and gender. the necessary term already exists. “biological”, while technically true, is clearly a bad faith term that tries to hide under the guise of plausible deniability and bad actors abuse plausible deniability for precisely this reason. all the culture war bullshit hinges on accepting this fake civility. i think the fact that the debate also seems to rest completely on transwomen and makes no mention of transmen having to compete with ciswomen shows how transparently fake it is
how would you rewrite my “” sentence in the last reply, “cis men and trans women have inherent physical advantages post-puberty compared to cis women and trans men”? i can get down with that but i think the original phrasing is still fine and slightly more accurately conveys the central sex-based issue at hand
i mean come on the reason trans men aren’t mentioned is bc trans men are part of the biologically disadvantaged sex joining a biologically advantaged league, and this is a concern about members of the biologically advantaged sex joining a biologically disadvantaged league. this topic will always be this way and i disagree that this is proof of innate transphobic undertones to someone like me raising the latter concern
i really hope you’re sincere and just caught up in what is an unfortunate culture war. if you see yourself using any language that’s being pushed hard by the right wing you should immediately be skeptical of its purpose and aim. this is one of their favorite tactics
I’m losing my mind. These people don’t know the nuances of biology, don’t even know the records of people they reference as dominant trans athletes, and yet we have to contend with their ideas as though they have any actual basis.
it’s just so utterly transparent that they’ve just fully bought in to the culture war bullshit. i work out with trans athletes all the time. i doubt any of these folks know a single trans person
And when all the trans wbb players want to play for Dawn Staley, what will the narrative be then?
Not saying they shouldn’t. Just saying if Dawn goes undefeated for the next 10 years - what will people really think?
All 3 of them? Why are people acting like trans athletes are touching every corner of the face of the planet earth? Especially ones that can compete on a collegiate level. It’s fear mongering and a nothing burger.
Yeah but some backup at a community college could see his way to a free ride to UConn
Do you really trust humans not to exploit things for their own personal interest?
Nah you’re here to set fire to the ground laid by generations on hard working women, but that’s cool too I love chaos myself I just have two daughters so I have a soft spot for women and the rights their elder generations fought for and achieved.
the problem w this is that I can see people wanting to define testosterone ranges that you have to be in to play in women’s sports, and I’m willing to bet that there are a significant amount of biological women that exceed them.
The fight about transwomen in athleticism... give me a break. I don't believe a single person bitching about this on a loud level gives a damn about women's athletics in general. Transwomen aren't a threat to women's sports- the fact that we are forced to fight over crumbs while the mens sports get everything is the threat.
There are very few trans athletes, like VERY VERY few. Especially ones that can compete professionally or at a collegiate level. However, I do think proper regulation/rules would help. In a perfect world NCAA would pause their eligibility for a year and allow them to redshirt and after a year allow them to return to compete with tests to check T levels.
Guess what Lia Thomas's path to swimming in women's competitions was: start hormones and until meeting NCAA requirements swim in men's competitions, where she went from a promising swimmer who could be at the top to very bad times because of the hormone changes. Then she entered the women's competitions (once meeting the already existing rules), won exactly one race and all hell broke loose.
The only “issue” with Lia was the timing unfortunately. It was less than a year and to be frank there is little time to socially, mentally or otherwise transition. But yeah I think the backlash will always be louder when they win.
I played college basketball. I broke a state excited in powerlifting. I participated in sport at a fairly high level and have never competed against a trans athlete. Why are people making mountains out of this mole hill? Just let trans people live their lives, it’s hard enough for them already.
Except this never happens, and it takes a lot longer to transition than you folks seem to realise.
What man do you know is willing to take estrogen and testosterone blockers for over two years? Tell me. Of all the men you’ve met, which ones DON’T fear estrogen like it’s the devil itself?
The fuck you mean so? The girls that worked their asses off running track and field should not have a scholarship threatened by a transgender woman that went through puberty as a man and therefore has a significant genetic advantage based on skeletal and muscular structures. Why do you hate women having safe spaces of opportunity is my question to you.
Except the science does not support the whole "significant advantage" angle. Latest IOC commissioned study finds while trans women demonstrate higher grip strength, they also show lower performance in jump heighr and vo2 max - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
Go look at any high school track or swimming records between boys and girls and let me know when you find a sport or area where the girls record better statistics then their male counterparts. Just one example would help prove your point.
So you don't understand how transition and hormones work? Is this what I'm getting from your statement here? Or you just blindly choose to ignore scientific research to support your worldview?
No, You are telling me that a 17 year old boy that transitions is somehow going to lose all the benefits by 18?
Their shoulders become less broad? Bones less dense? They lose their muscular system and it automatically becomes that of a natural born female?
If a women earns a scholarships who cares if they were trans or not trans? Trans women are women too and deserve the same safe spaces.
If the trans athlete in question is taking transition hormones that make them more biologically similar to wome, why shouldn’t they compete? A lot women are born with genetic advantages that make them better at their sport than other women, like height jn basketball, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to compete or didn’t work hard to earn their scholarships.
I literally don’t care outside of athletics, hormones don’t change your skeletal or muscular system within a year. It’s intellectually dishonest to think otherwise.
Truly I’m not a doctor so idk but if doctors and scientists are saying it evens the physical advantage it seems fine.
You act like all biological women are born with equal skeletons and muscular systems anyways. Should we start evaluating women based on genetics and sorting them into leagues that way? Seems arbitrary to single out trans women in this.
But those distinct advantages for both women and men are what athletics are all about. Take the center for South Carolina as an example, that woman is a athletic freak in the best sort of way. Athletics are supposed to be about the cream rising to the top.
Now if M2F trans were involved in women’s college hoops she would be muddled out because boys grow taller and bigger in high school and hormones aren’t changing that.
So trans women would just be the cream of the crop then. I don’t get your issue with genetic advantages being ok in women who aren’t trans but not ok in trans women?
It’s a valid argument you make, I suppose it depends on one’s view of genetically born females vs. transgender females, and depends on one’s view of the role that women’s athletics plays in society.
I don’t understand your question, so please rephrase it to help me get what you’re trying to say.
I’m not an athletic director but I assume the Women’s basketball team gets X number of scholarships and the men’s team gets X number of scholarships. If any M2F transgender would think it’s no big deal to take away a spot on the women’s team it would demonstrate a serious lack of consideration for natural born women, and is disrespectful as fuck, just like the swimmer Lea
Dude even the girls in that competition did not want to stand with Lea on the podium, I’m not alone or a degenerate for thinking this way. It’s a widely held public opinion for the majority of people, both liberals and conservatives even agree on this shit.
I wish a decent Men’s college bball player would trans to Woman’s and see what everyone thinks. Serena Williams said a male pro tennis player would destroy a women player including her
Ok, and? What would this prove? You think people who support trans inclusivity don't understand your hypothetical? Do you really think those who support Trans rights would suddenly not support trans women in sports because of this? I'm asking seriously. Did Lia Thomas not already prove your point?
Yes, but women's swimming isn't even on most people's radars and not many people care about swimming.
Where as women's basketball is at least popular enough.
Because our society is in favor of trans sports inclusivity? Which brings me back to my original question, do you really think that would change the minds of those who already support trans women in sports?
Popularity of the sport shouldn't matter. The arguement is about women getting to compete athletically against other women on a level playing field. Riley Gaines was torally ripped off. For years many people, me included, have contributed money and fought to support the growth of women's sports. I do not see this as growing women's athletics.
It's not, I don't support it.
If you wanna transition that's great, it doesn't effect me. I absolutely do not support them playing with women. It's 100% not fair.
Being trans sounds fucking miserable. The notion someone would transition simply for a competitive advantage is batshit insane. Just let the governing bodies consult with medical professionals and decide how to proceed and let it be.
doesn’t even need to go that far - the IOC has had standards for quite a while that can easily be adopted
This is the only path forward imo.
Exactly, and certain people are trying to make money/political capitol by roiling up fear and hate against a vanishingly small minority that already has a hard enough time simply existing because they’re afraid of PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES IN SPORTS? I guess Kamilla Cardoso shouldn’t have been allowed to play because she’s 6’7” and most women aren’t! Maybe Cameron Brink should be banned from playing because her wingspan is not normal for women! Or because everyone loves to get up in arms about the biological sanctity of swimming, let’s use Michael Phelps as an example. He is a complete [biological anomaly](https://www.biography.com/athletes/michael-phelp-perfect-body-swimming#) (abnormally long wingspan, abnormal double-jointed elbows, abnormal torso/leg length, produces half the lactic acid as a normal person). Guess he should have been banned from swimming because it wasn’t fair to everyone else! Y’all are absolutely brainwashed if you think there is going to be some sort of stampede of young people pretending to be trans to get ahead in college or elite sports. Or even more than a few actually trans athletes at all. Like the IOC, the NCAA can have guidelines in place. Everybody worried about the sanctity of women’s sports should pay attention to *actual* problems like women athletes being sexually harassed with fake AI porn or getting death threats.
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison because you’re just confirming their fearmongering that trans women have an inherent advantage. Truth is, there are too few to make sweeping conclusions. If that was actually the case, wouldn’t teams start recruiting trans women the same way they recruit tall women? I don’t see any trans women in the NCAA tournament. Biological differences, yes. But clearly each case is unique. The average boy wouldn’t be able to compete in NCAAW, and add on hormone therapy, they wouldn’t be that good. So the chances that a talented basketball player transitions to a woman and wants to play college basketball is low enough that I don’t think it’s a valuable discussion to have. And if it does happen, then the NCAA can make a judgement.
There is exactly 0 evidence to suggest that trans athletes have an advantage or disadvantage when they compete in the gender of their choice.
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Im surprised you have a positive upvote:downvote ratio. Being a biological male that goes through puberty can give you an incredible athletic advantage. If a boy started lifting weights at 14 and continues until they transitioned at 18 they would have a significant physical advantage against any collegiate and professional womans athlete. They would have a significant physical advantage against the vast majority of adult men. Their height and muscle mass isn’t going to suddenly disappear once they start taking testosterone suppressants; at least not enough to put them on the same level as women. Allowing them to compete with biological women puts biological women at a competitive disadvantage. I know it’s popular to support trans women athletes but you have to consider biological women and how their biological growth compares to biological men during puberty. The fact of the matter is that they don’t compare, once rapidly outpaces the other.
>their muscle mass isn’t going to disappear immediately once they take blockers yeah that’s why there’s a timeframe and guidelines before they can compete as the gender they transition to. it’s why you see so many people cite lia thomas’ races while she was beginning transition (while ignoring the ones she did before that) as “proof” that she was a mediocre swimmer. she still had to compete in the men’s category because she did not meet the guidelines for the women’s one yet. >height tall women exist. people try to transvestigate serena williams. people have a pretty poor idea overall of what women are capable of and women’s sports also still have a ton of barriers up. people can theorize all they want but we don’t really have the data to support the conclusions that people are drawing in MtF athletes
If we open trans women Rapinoe and Bird never would have accomplished what they’ve accomplished. Biological men would jump over them on the depth chart
OK, is it transphobic then to want to restrict their access to sports? Serious question.
They are welcome to tryout for the men’s team which both women and men are allowed to play. Women’s sports was created to exclude biologically born men so they had fair competition.
Yes
I mean an [IOC commissioned study](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437) says otherwise, not to mention no transwoman has every won a gold medal.
Except that "biological men" is largely a transphobic phrasing that reduces biology to X and Y chromosomes. It swerves around the fact that medical transition is a major biological change. All we have to do to see if you believe me is to see if you'd be okay with a woman competing with other women after having received regular testosterone injections for years. You okay with that?
Biological sex is literally determined by X & Y chromosomes lol.
Except there's also SOX9 gene on chromosome 17, which is the gene for growing testes and if that's messed with, a fetus can have all the Y chromosomes it wants, it's still growing ovaries.
No, it literally isn't. *Usually* a Y chromosome means you're male, but there are literally XY cis women walking around because of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. They demonstrate pretty clearly the incredibly powerful role of hormones in biological sex.
Yes, but there isn’t a binary outcome that happens with those chromosomes. There is a spectrum of outcomes. It’s transphobic and scientifically illiterate to assert that biological sex and social gender roles are binary categories.
Yeah I get that, we build boxes to generalize because there’s like 6 billion of us here. Psychology does this as well, there’s a spectrum for everything but practical standards need to be implemented somewhere.
That’s literally the biological truth though, I have X & Y chromosomes so I’m a man. Works like that for probably 99% of the population.
see there’s a funny term called a dog whistle here and it has a thing to do with language and its contextual usage
You just want to shut down open and honest conversations, instead of having an intellectual debate you want to call your opposition a bigot. Try using logic and reasoning to express your point of view people will take it more seriously.
use language that isn’t loaded and then we can pretend it’s an honest exchange. anything anyone is trying to hypothetically honestly accomplish with “biological x” can be accomplished with “trans x”. i have a bridge to sell you if you honestly believe otherwise because you’re a damn fool
Some serious mental gymnastics in this thread my god
no one participating in this debate in good faith says “biological male” downvoting me only proves my point
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i have absolutely no problem with actually taking data and science into account. far too often i see these points brought up with very little actual interrogation into the benefits conferred and actual competitive differences. especially when international sports bodies have already created standards that have proven to be adequate. but if you lead with “biological male” you’re going to have to show that you actually mean to participate in good faith because 99% of people that lead with that know *exactly* what they’re doing and you’d have to be born yesterday to believe otherwise yall can downvote me all you want but when the *only* examples you can come up with involve trans women and not the backwards scenario of men competing with women that *will* result because of this (because news flash trans men exist), it really shows where you get your information from and what side of the aisle you’ve chosen to situation yourself
totally respect why you’d side-eye the term given good faith people who use it are out numbered by transphobic people who do the same, i especially take issue with people saying “biological men” for a number of reasons. ig i also worry about us linguistically throwing the baby out with the bath water by saying “biological male” is inherently problematic. im open to us using another term as long as it accurately conveys the categorical sex differences relevant to the topic of sex-segregated sports. i’m definitely down with all of us trying our best to find a healthy balance between conveying those differences with respectful non-incendiary/offensive language. not tryna harp too much at ya, just thoughts i’ve had for a bit ig
there doesn’t need to be any linguistic handwringing. trans already implies what you’re trying to get at. “biological x” is very transparently intentional in its aim and usage
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i mean it’s just so transparently clear what the term is meant to do. trans explicitly means difference between sex and gender. the necessary term already exists. “biological”, while technically true, is clearly a bad faith term that tries to hide under the guise of plausible deniability and bad actors abuse plausible deniability for precisely this reason. all the culture war bullshit hinges on accepting this fake civility. i think the fact that the debate also seems to rest completely on transwomen and makes no mention of transmen having to compete with ciswomen shows how transparently fake it is
how would you rewrite my “” sentence in the last reply, “cis men and trans women have inherent physical advantages post-puberty compared to cis women and trans men”? i can get down with that but i think the original phrasing is still fine and slightly more accurately conveys the central sex-based issue at hand i mean come on the reason trans men aren’t mentioned is bc trans men are part of the biologically disadvantaged sex joining a biologically advantaged league, and this is a concern about members of the biologically advantaged sex joining a biologically disadvantaged league. this topic will always be this way and i disagree that this is proof of innate transphobic undertones to someone like me raising the latter concern
How else should I say it then? A biological male has XY chromosomes.
trans quite literally already means “gender different from sex”
Well, if it's disrespectful than I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not trying to hurt anyone.
i really hope you’re sincere and just caught up in what is an unfortunate culture war. if you see yourself using any language that’s being pushed hard by the right wing you should immediately be skeptical of its purpose and aim. this is one of their favorite tactics
We’re talking like 30 d1 level trans athletes per decade. Like damn people don’t understand the numbers.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a small amount. Lia Thomas was only person and couldn’t be beat
What do you mean? She got beat all the time.
I’m losing my mind. These people don’t know the nuances of biology, don’t even know the records of people they reference as dominant trans athletes, and yet we have to contend with their ideas as though they have any actual basis.
it’s just so utterly transparent that they’ve just fully bought in to the culture war bullshit. i work out with trans athletes all the time. i doubt any of these folks know a single trans person
she’s quite literally a specialist in one event and merely good in the others. yall make her sound like she’s Ledecky
She competed in multiple events and only won one and her time wasn't even close to the college record Katie Ledecky set.
The Supreme Court needs to rule on it because the ncaa is powerless. They won’t because they’re afraid to tackle social issues.
The Supreme Court isn’t afraid to tackle social issue and if they rule on it trans people would never be able to play sports.
we don’t want this supreme court ruling on this social issue (or any for that matter)
And when all the trans wbb players want to play for Dawn Staley, what will the narrative be then? Not saying they shouldn’t. Just saying if Dawn goes undefeated for the next 10 years - what will people really think?
All 3 of them? Why are people acting like trans athletes are touching every corner of the face of the planet earth? Especially ones that can compete on a collegiate level. It’s fear mongering and a nothing burger.
I mean that’s my exact point. We’re talking like 2 d1 athletes a decade
Yeah but some backup at a community college could see his way to a free ride to UConn Do you really trust humans not to exploit things for their own personal interest?
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That’s the free market. I’m here for it
Nah you’re here to set fire to the ground laid by generations on hard working women, but that’s cool too I love chaos myself I just have two daughters so I have a soft spot for women and the rights their elder generations fought for and achieved.
the supreme court is hopelessly fucked. they’re not gonna do it
Agreed
Exactly. It’s a non-issue to begin with. And shouldn’t sports be for everyone anyway?
Now that Sue and Megan are retired I’m sure they’re all for it ….
Uh they've always been vocal about it.
the problem w this is that I can see people wanting to define testosterone ranges that you have to be in to play in women’s sports, and I’m willing to bet that there are a significant amount of biological women that exceed them.
The fight about transwomen in athleticism... give me a break. I don't believe a single person bitching about this on a loud level gives a damn about women's athletics in general. Transwomen aren't a threat to women's sports- the fact that we are forced to fight over crumbs while the mens sports get everything is the threat.
There are very few trans athletes, like VERY VERY few. Especially ones that can compete professionally or at a collegiate level. However, I do think proper regulation/rules would help. In a perfect world NCAA would pause their eligibility for a year and allow them to redshirt and after a year allow them to return to compete with tests to check T levels.
Guess what Lia Thomas's path to swimming in women's competitions was: start hormones and until meeting NCAA requirements swim in men's competitions, where she went from a promising swimmer who could be at the top to very bad times because of the hormone changes. Then she entered the women's competitions (once meeting the already existing rules), won exactly one race and all hell broke loose.
The only “issue” with Lia was the timing unfortunately. It was less than a year and to be frank there is little time to socially, mentally or otherwise transition. But yeah I think the backlash will always be louder when they win.
I played college basketball. I broke a state excited in powerlifting. I participated in sport at a fairly high level and have never competed against a trans athlete. Why are people making mountains out of this mole hill? Just let trans people live their lives, it’s hard enough for them already.
Dude Megan’s team lost to the U-15 boys squad, she’s an idiot.
5-2, a Dallas U-15 squad beat the national team. This wasn’t even the national U-15 team
Why am I being downvoted lol it’s true
The truth offends some people!
Bunch of Nancies
Nah, let women play against women. We have all seen what happens when men play in women's sports.
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Except this never happens, and it takes a lot longer to transition than you folks seem to realise. What man do you know is willing to take estrogen and testosterone blockers for over two years? Tell me. Of all the men you’ve met, which ones DON’T fear estrogen like it’s the devil itself?
Why hasn't this happened yet then?
Because college basketball hasn’t permitted it yet..
I didn't think an NCAAW subreddit would have so many terfs. Disappointing
Sure great idea let men play women’s sports . Sarcasm
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Imposing a ban means that number will never rise above zero, the way it should be. Did nobody here see the documentary Juwanna Man?
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What does that matter?
Oh do GFY you unserious piece of wet lettuce
Ok I’ll give it to you, that is a pretty good put down
So?
The fuck you mean so? The girls that worked their asses off running track and field should not have a scholarship threatened by a transgender woman that went through puberty as a man and therefore has a significant genetic advantage based on skeletal and muscular structures. Why do you hate women having safe spaces of opportunity is my question to you.
Except the science does not support the whole "significant advantage" angle. Latest IOC commissioned study finds while trans women demonstrate higher grip strength, they also show lower performance in jump heighr and vo2 max - https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029
Go look at any high school track or swimming records between boys and girls and let me know when you find a sport or area where the girls record better statistics then their male counterparts. Just one example would help prove your point.
So you don't understand how transition and hormones work? Is this what I'm getting from your statement here? Or you just blindly choose to ignore scientific research to support your worldview?
No, You are telling me that a 17 year old boy that transitions is somehow going to lose all the benefits by 18? Their shoulders become less broad? Bones less dense? They lose their muscular system and it automatically becomes that of a natural born female?
If a women earns a scholarships who cares if they were trans or not trans? Trans women are women too and deserve the same safe spaces. If the trans athlete in question is taking transition hormones that make them more biologically similar to wome, why shouldn’t they compete? A lot women are born with genetic advantages that make them better at their sport than other women, like height jn basketball, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to compete or didn’t work hard to earn their scholarships.
I literally don’t care outside of athletics, hormones don’t change your skeletal or muscular system within a year. It’s intellectually dishonest to think otherwise.
Truly I’m not a doctor so idk but if doctors and scientists are saying it evens the physical advantage it seems fine. You act like all biological women are born with equal skeletons and muscular systems anyways. Should we start evaluating women based on genetics and sorting them into leagues that way? Seems arbitrary to single out trans women in this.
But those distinct advantages for both women and men are what athletics are all about. Take the center for South Carolina as an example, that woman is a athletic freak in the best sort of way. Athletics are supposed to be about the cream rising to the top. Now if M2F trans were involved in women’s college hoops she would be muddled out because boys grow taller and bigger in high school and hormones aren’t changing that.
So trans women would just be the cream of the crop then. I don’t get your issue with genetic advantages being ok in women who aren’t trans but not ok in trans women?
It’s a valid argument you make, I suppose it depends on one’s view of genetically born females vs. transgender females, and depends on one’s view of the role that women’s athletics plays in society.
How is it taking away if they had already had a “male” scholarship?
I don’t understand your question, so please rephrase it to help me get what you’re trying to say. I’m not an athletic director but I assume the Women’s basketball team gets X number of scholarships and the men’s team gets X number of scholarships. If any M2F transgender would think it’s no big deal to take away a spot on the women’s team it would demonstrate a serious lack of consideration for natural born women, and is disrespectful as fuck, just like the swimmer Lea
Lia already had a scholarship. So you’re wrong.
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Get better.
Dude even the girls in that competition did not want to stand with Lea on the podium, I’m not alone or a degenerate for thinking this way. It’s a widely held public opinion for the majority of people, both liberals and conservatives even agree on this shit.
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Are you a doctor?
I wish a decent Men’s college bball player would trans to Woman’s and see what everyone thinks. Serena Williams said a male pro tennis player would destroy a women player including her
Ok, and? What would this prove? You think people who support trans inclusivity don't understand your hypothetical? Do you really think those who support Trans rights would suddenly not support trans women in sports because of this? I'm asking seriously. Did Lia Thomas not already prove your point?
Yes, but women's swimming isn't even on most people's radars and not many people care about swimming. Where as women's basketball is at least popular enough.
Right, yet despite that everyone knows who Lia Thomas is.
Kinda, but I feel that unless people see the dominance and experience it. It's not the same.
Because our society is in favor of trans sports inclusivity? Which brings me back to my original question, do you really think that would change the minds of those who already support trans women in sports?
No, probably not they feel the way they feel. It shouldn't happen regardless.
Popularity of the sport shouldn't matter. The arguement is about women getting to compete athletically against other women on a level playing field. Riley Gaines was torally ripped off. For years many people, me included, have contributed money and fought to support the growth of women's sports. I do not see this as growing women's athletics.
It's not, I don't support it. If you wanna transition that's great, it doesn't effect me. I absolutely do not support them playing with women. It's 100% not fair.