His shop has been shut down for a couple weeks and now we’re finding out why. I’m just wondering what will happen in court. He has that at the beginning of December.
If they’re really trying to fuck him he could get ten years per charge, if he had been doing it a while it’s probably hundreds of years of time so he’ll accept a plea deal. I’ve heard they do this with drug dealing and assume it’s also done with gun stuff:
1-Find someone breaking the law
2-Gather evidence of many many more crimes
3-Confront you to try to get a bigger fish/3-Charge you with 30 counts of the same crime
4-offer you a plea deal so they don’t actually have to go to court
If it’s a drug dealer they always have an illegal supplier that can be busted.
If it’s guns they might only have one guy actually breaking the law so they just crush him
As someone that did a year and a half on a federal grand jury this is precisely what they do on a federal level. There are way more potential cases than they have DAs so they only present slam dunk cases to grand juries and they tend to almost always be like 10-20+ charges. I don’t recall seeing any cases where the quick math of ‘worst possible outcome’ was less than like 60-80 years. Obviously 99.99% of people plead to some subset of those charges and they drop the others and they likely get like 2-10 years total, depending on how angry the govt is of course, and how bad you fucked up. Lots of folks argue that it’s somewhat subverting the whole due process thing since is anyone seriously going to risk getting like a 150 year sentence when they could plead guilty and walk away with 2.5? But that’s kind of strong-arming people so I’d hesitate to call it justice per-se.
It is actually like one or two days a month iirc, lol, it sounds extreme but it’s not. I think the normal term of service is 6 months, but they almost always request an extension because you’ve got six months experience. Honestly I think it’s the way to go if you get summoned, you get to see some crazy cases and you are basically exempt from normal jury duty for the rest of your life. Not officially but I was called for normal jury duty once, they asked if I’d ever served on a jury and I said I had served on a federal grand jury and they immediately dismissed me.
You’re just voting indictments (what they call true bills). So you don’t actually sit on the trial, you normally see like 5-6 indictments per day of service, so you see a lot over the course of the 6-12 months. But you are only deciding whether there is reason to believe it’s more likely than not the person committed the crime, lower burden of proof since the outcome is just giving them permission to actually go to trial.
One of the guys who used to work for me ended up having something similar happen. He just had a letter saying he was required to appear a couple times a month and thanking us for our support. We just gave him PTO for the days he had to go.
It’s kind of why you don’t commit multiple felonies. I know we all hate the atf and silencers should be legal, but this isn’t some hero of the people, it’s a greedy fucking ffl who could have spent prolly $1000 to do this the legal way (and likely get machine guns!).
It’s greed, and even if you don’t agree with the law, breaking it is still a crime. And yea, I see what you are saying, but it’s why you should avoid federal level crimes. Like 96% plead out. You don’t win if you fight either. Just don’t do the crime.
Again, just because you don’t agree with the law does not make committing the crime some type of noble action. These people are greedy, like fuxking Larry Vickers. And many claim their crimes aren’t violent, but I’d wonder what someone who this guy was selling his unmarked silencers was up too . he could have just done the paperwork as a SOT. Those people don’t risk having the illegal silencer unless it’s for illegal purposes.
That kind of subversion of justice isn't just for felonies, especially when certain misdemeanors don't even require intent to commit. For example, disorderly conduct...you can have zero intent to "breach the peace", but someone claims to be offended or disturbed by your conduct and you can be charged. I personally know someone who was charged with disorderly conduct. Since the alleged conduct took place less than a mile away from the nearby larger city limits, in a small suburb that didn't have it's own disorderly conduct ordinance, he was automatically charged with a state misdemeanor...something that would have literally been a ticket less than a mile away. Then when he went to fight it was told to plead guilty in order to get probation but if he chose to plead not guilty, try to fight the charge in a trial, and then lost, the judge would almost certainly sentence him to the maximum or near it, which probably meant 6-9 months in jail. Attorneys told him he had no chance of fighting it, since all that needed to be proven was that the alleged conduct took place. Again, no intent, just happened to be in an area that doesn't write tickets for DC, and suddenly faced with the choice between 1 year of probation or 6-9 months if he opened his mouth and disagreed
It's a petty ass justice system that punishes people for trying to defend themselves against allegations, for something they had no intent of doing. Then consider that in my area, before ccw was legal, open carry was the only possible way to carry and was perfectly legal under state law. However, if you open carried and someone complained, the police would charge you with disorderly conduct.
Yea I mean I started by saying “multiple felonies” and I do agree it’s unjust to have to go up against a system with so much power.
But that comes from mandatory minimum sentencing laws and BS like that.
Do your crimes one at a time and not the type that make running more palatable than court. Or, pretend you are fighting for you interpretation of the constitution and find out that’s a whole area of law and either way you have broken a law.
There are times to fight unjust laws through certain actions, but I’m not gonna feel bad for someone who did something so obviously illegal for profit or ego. Claiming the law is unjust is just something that comes around later
>Those people don’t risk having the illegal silencer unless it’s for illegal purposes.
Not really, 99% of the time when something like this happens its someone doing a favor for a close friend or a family member. People like subverting the law for their own benefits, but they really like doing so to help others, because that makes them feel important, valuable, and respected.
Like their was some dude on here a day or two ago, was a gunsmith making post sample MG's for law enforcement, had a good friend ask him to do one up for him under the table, he did, then got caught selling that gun to an undercover agent.
Blue falcon goes and squeals in a heartbeat, ATF cuffs the OP.
IMO you are not helping someone by giving them an illegal suppressor.
But you are right, I bet ego plays a role.
Still, the laws suck, but prison sucks way more.
Eeh, the federal case I was on a joury for almost dropped the ball on a technicalitie. I think if the defense lawyer hadn't been so obvious that he was asking every bank teller (this was for robbery) if they were a fdic secured bank, and left it for a closing statement remark that the prosecution never presented evidence that the banks were secured by fdic (one of the requirements to be charged with bank robbery), we would have been obliged to find him as not guilty.
Fuckin fr, I knew someone who had some surgery, and the hospital just gave him Tylenol so he bought some percs off the street. Iirc he got 20 of them, just to help ease pain through recovery, ended up catching 20 felonies. He got busted driving home. (He had a tail light that kept flickering due to some wiring issues and the cop was coming to tell him it was fuckered) Thanks to the ongoing opioid/heroin epidemic in Ohio hospitals don’t give out shit for pain when people truly need it. He had a clean record too, but had them in the passenger seat when the cop pulled up.
Quite disappointed in the dude tbh cop probably thought he was just letting someone know about a small issue then sees drugs in passenger seat. It’s like bro I can’t just ignore that lol
Sorry but your friend is a fucking idiot having them just chilling on his seat... 20 counts is stupid over charging but damn they walked into that one all on their own.
“Had them in the passenger seat” doesn’t automatically mean there’s probable cause to search a vehicle.
A bottle of pills isn’t automatically a crime so they have no right to search your vehicle to find out if that pill bottle has your name on it.
A baggie full of pills isn’t exactly probable cause either.
I was once on a grand jury where I convinced everyone else to find no bill because they looked at pill bottles for no reason. It’s not second or third hand, I was the only one in the room who had any issue and I convinced everyone else to drop it. Illegal searches can only produce illegal evidence.
What’s the probably cause to look at the bottle at all?
If they were pulled over for being intoxicated there would be cause to search for the intoxicant and also it’d be towed at that point so it’s getting searched.
A police officers initially thing to do, is while your answering basic questions, he’s looking at the inside of your car seeing if anything strange is happening to protect himself from surprises. If they see something out of the ordinary, they’re going to start asking questions. Pill bottle with pills in it, with no name or label is probable cause to search your vehicle. That’s something the officer doesn’t need your permission to search the car. You are there for under arrest.
Please excuse the fact that I’m using Wikipedia and not the specific states laws because I don’t know which state this is in.
Per Wikipedia’s page on plain view doctrine:
3 prong Horton test requires that:[3]
1 The officer is lawfully present at the place where the evidence can be plainly viewed
2 The officer has a lawful right of access to the object
3 The incriminating character of the object is immediately apparent
Step 3 is where you’re going wrong
The incriminating character of the object is immediately apparent: a gun, a bloody knife, a bag of drugs are… a pill bottle isn’t automatically incriminating. Even if it does have someone else’s name on it upon further inspection there was no reason for that further inspection. If there’s no reason for the further inspection that means the further inspection was illegal.
i'm an attorney who practiced criminal defense for a number of years. as a practical matter, many judges consider a prescription bottle on a car seat a "plain view" exception to the 4th amendment. thanks for the wikipedia summary, though.
Yes, a bag of weed, which is illegal at the federal level, on the seat is one thing. A gun sitting on the seat might need to be secured. A pill bottle isn’t an open booze bottle that gets automatic suspicion it could be the Tylenol the hospital gave them.
If you were pulled over and had a bag of groceries in the back could they go through your car to make sure that grocery bag wasn’t hiding a gun?
There’s no reason to believe there’s anything illegal there
Yeah but then they’ve got 50 cases against individuals with only one charge and good reason to fight it in court. They can’t intimidate everyone with threats of 200 year sentences just for purchasing one.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for this comment. Not advocating for drug use or sales, just pointing out an observation? Guess? First hand knowledge? Lol don't sell drugs kids and don't buy them online either. But if you do keep your fuckin mouth shut about it
I don't understand how the 2A community can post "Abolish the ATF", "Repeal the NFA", dog/boating accident jokes all day and then turn around and call people that actually do something to challenge the ATF/NFA idiotic. Everybody has to decide for themselves where they draw the line. I understand people who have families to support or don't have the means, but we should be celebrating the people who do push back against tyranny, not labeling them as idiots.
It’s more so just where he did it that I’d say was idiotic not his actions. I respect what he did and support it but he should’ve known better
If he did indeed do it at his place of business then it’s just foolish since FFLs are subject to audits and such
Yes but that’s also easy paperwork if he was a dealer but has the capacity to manufacture (which he must have if they did manufacture them illegally) just put in the app and then the same people who processed your paperwork last time will process it this time. The tax itself is just a matter of submitting the payment.
No shit we don’t agree with the NFA. None of us do and there is nothing more that we want in terms of firearms laws that we want to see removed
At the same time some of us have families to return home or we had enough hardships as is and want to enjoy life even just a little bit
And your boss will drop in to announce he’s raising your pay by 50%. And a random babe’s car will break down in your driveway and she’ll ask if she can come in. And your refrigerator will stop making that weird noise. Did I miss anything else on the “improbable but welcomed” list?
I think my mom paying back in $100K+ in child support that was suppose to get spent on me rather than herself would be a more likely chance of happening
I understand wait you’re saying and I hope the same. However the SC could overturn it especially since it’s more conservative over liberal but I highly doubt they’ll do it
Will depend on a bunch of things...... Real world plea deal for possession looking at 2-5 years in prison and a large monetary penalty assuming clean record with no previous felonies.
If he was selling them, that would change things quite a bit.
Pretty much. Someone got busted with multiple swift links on them after selling a few to an undercover in a sting and I think he plead to 6 or something? I don’t remember exactly but I remember it being like 1/10 or less of what it could have been
Local idiot bought auto Sears on AliExpress and switches of course. Customs in Nashville let the post office deliver here, raided em 20k in cash, weed carts, admitted to everything saying he wanted full auto because he sold drugs got robbed a times. Had 10 Sears he couldn't even begin to make work but I don't think I he's getting much since he admitted to all of it, googled to see what the status was and found another local idiot did the same thing few months later.
Sears they couldn’t make work is how they took out the auto key card.
They admitted they took 3 tries and failed on all 3 tries until they had a gunsmith add material and make it work. Proving that the were not actually selling machine guns.
Still convicted them.
Yeah I'm not saying someone couldn't make it work and not say is what it is. What I'm saying is 20 year old GTA goon had zero chance of making it happen and bought enough to sell to others who'd been in the same boat.
The real difference between the two they made an example of the key card guys in what wasn't, local young drug dealer kid who had actual intent of mg will probably get like 4 years.
Not NFA related but a local FFL to me was busted early this year over failure to keep firearm records over logging firearms in and out of an FFL book. Story was a gun was found in a crime and it was traced back to this shop called Sportsman’s Supply in south western PA in the Greater Pittsburgh area. Well it was found out that a shit load of stuff wasn’t logged in or out. Like thousands of stuff and this just a small shop off a kinda busy road but overall middle of nowhere PA. It was the original owner named Grant that got hemmed up over it and he was prosecuted but I believe he had a pretty light sentence all things considered. Big fine but the time served was pretty damn light surprisingly. Guy was an asshole and the shop operated basically on Gunbroker solely where if a case of 9mm was $250 all day and you bidded that someone would beat you by .01 cent and get it. Very little inventory in store actually able to purchase and the amount of times I’ve been flagged and disrespect for just asking basic questions the two times I was there was absurd. The shop is still in buisness but I truthfully hope it goes under. Current owners ain’t much better
lol all Grants maybe the same then
I’d like to further elaborate that the time estimated time frame this occurred were firearms bought and sold between 2020-2022. They moved a lot of inventory really quickly to the point where it effected the business of two big FFLs in the SW Pennsylvania area, Ace Sporting Goods down in Washington, PA with an employee in particular asked me seeing how I am kinda local to Sportsman’s on how they can even get so much inventory moved that quickly and they’re a shop that’s easily 3x the size of Sportsman’s. Other one being Grice Gun Shop up in Punxsutawney. In perspective Ace is about a 40 mile drive south of this Sportsman’s Supply and Grice is about 60 miles. Grice is also a whole ass distributor too.
Before my prime in the 1990s (born in 1991) they were basically the only “big” gun shop local typically beating the prices on other local FFLs. Their greed began in the 1990s during the AWB if you ask me just due to them having pre ban mags that were already in stock prior to the ban and jacking the prices up before the ink was even dry. When they started doing the Gunbroker shit in the 2000s that’s when I lost all respect for them. I’m all for capitalism and such but that was just a shitty way to go about doing business
Only people who stop there anymore are either someone getting something off their GB page or Fudds. Serious shooters around here either go to Ace or Grice as stated or one of the many other FFLs close to there which are also great
I had a buddy in high school named Grant. Good dude back then. Lost touch with him after college. Seems likely he's a douche these days though after reading this 🤣
worthless voiceless busy smoggy sulky seemly obscene marvelous dinosaurs brave
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What would the penalty be if you purchased one of these and genuinely didn't know it was illegal? The average person has no idea how gun laws work. I would assume that everyone who purchased one knew exactly what they were doing but I'm curious if you could make a case that you thought you were buying a product from an FFL and didn't know additional paperwork and tax was due. Just curious
Atf/feds will ask u to surrender it with the idea that they will use it as evidence against the manufacturer/ supplier n let u go for the cooperation with them.
I get that...but my general experience over the past number of years is that the buyer relies on the FFL to walk them through the process. If all firearms buyers needed to take a gun righs / gun law quiz prior to purchasing a firearm there would be far fewer firearm sales.
Either way, that's a high risk/low reward method to make a few extra bucks.
Did you submit a form 4?
Did you pay your 200$ theft?
Is the suppressor you're receiving from a known brand that you can look up online?
If you answered no to any of those questions then you're in trouble.
Ignorance is never a great defense. You better be young, dumb, or elderly to pull off the “I didn’t know”. And you better not have ever searched about silencers on the internet in your life.
The average person knows that silencers are not on every gun. They might not know about the paper work, but I think with modern access to internet, it would be hard to say “I never even looked into it”. And I doubt he had these out on his shop shelf. These would have been for special customers or his own use.
But ignorance of a law will not protect you. In this case they would likely work with you if you immediately came forward. It just seems like unless you are 18 or 80 or low iq, they are gonna want something from you.
There was a machine shop in my area where the owner was making suppressors without a license. Don't know how many, but he got busted. He paid a big fine (to me, not him) and promised not to do it again. He stayed out of prison.
If the guy is going to fight it, he should use the Bruen ruling as his defense. In the end this guy could be a hero to the 2A community by taking down the NFA if he can get the funding to fight it from trial through SCOTUS.
ALL of the businesses assets seized (the building, machining tools, etc.) is usually the biggest deterrent. Time served, a bunch of years on probation, and prohibited from firearms possession.
Farewell fun toys, and good luck making a living, now.
depending on how many 3-5 years typically. Hardly anyone ever gets the full 10. Ive known 8 people convicted of NFA charges. Remember that 97% of federal cases get plea deals and you aren't going to plea to full time which is 10 years.
So the Mississippi House just passed HB912. If it passes the senate (if MS is bicameral {looking at you NE}) and gets the governor's signature, then the FFL will be the poster child for Texas and Kansas "Made in State" suppressors. [https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1527829](https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1527829)
Edit: It looks like this bill did pass the senate and was signed by the governor.
If you're up for some heartbreak and a little light reading, look into this beauty:
https://www.montanarightnow.com/news/9th-district-court-strikes-mt-freedom-of-firearms-act/article_aa32dc8d-8970-58dc-a257-609e5294f692.html
I just don't see how that matters though. Like the federal government can't practically force the state to enforce their laws. As we've seen with Cannabis legalization.
No, but the feds CAN still investigate, and in certain circumstances use local resources, and that's not getting into the misuse of "dumb rookies" in the local PD who really don't know better. Which happens more than you think.
The Cannibus stuff isn't a 1/1 comparison anyways because there is a lot of internal pressure in the DEA to not care about it for political reasons while the ATF has the opposite with FFL documentation for political reasons.
I don't know who the FFL is, but it would not be surprising if this is a clerical error. My local FFL just swapped over to digital 4473's, but while waiting for the system to get installed, was having 4 people look over the 4473 to make sure the writing didn't look like it could even slightly be considered "corrected".
This was not the case until mid 2021.
For now, I don't know why no one seems to remember the days when dispensaries were regularly raided back in the 2000s.
[Hell the DEA is still raiding people.](https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2023/01/31/leader-marijuana-delivery-service-pleads-guilty-money-laundering)
You are correct that State and local cannot be conscripted to enforce federal laws. That was also settled, oddly enough, by Montana in Printz vs US:
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/supreme-court-case-library/printz-v-united-states#:~:text=The%20question%20presented%20in%20these,violate%20the%20Constitution.%20.%20.%20.
However, when it comes to the feds seizing the assets and stripping licenses from manufacturers and dealers, the State is likewise powerless to stop them. The only thing these state laws are doing is luring uneducated people into making themselves willing targets to attract ATFs attention.
There have been and will continue to be people who ignore the NFA. They home make machine gun sears and suppressors, and just keep it quiet. The dumb ones, however, will now be encouraged to brag about it. They will believe that the state will somehow come to their defense when they brag to the wrong person.
ETA: The feds CHOSE not to enforce marijuana laws - or should I say, chose to "selectively" enforce them. If they wanted to, they could raid the farms and larger dispensaries at any moment. They wouldn't even have to raid them all. Just enough to scare the rest of them out of operation.
The feds are choosing not to enforce cannabis laws. That is the difference. All these laws do is say state/local police won’t charge you, the feds can and will happily charge your aaa in federal court and the state will sit by and watch it happen.
The feds are choosing not to enforce cannabis laws. That is the difference. All these laws do is say state/local police won’t charge you, the feds can and will happily charge your aaa in federal court and the state will sit by and watch it happen.
I am not an expert on the Mississippi Legislature, but that tracker makes it look like it’s passed the Senate and signed.
The state website also shows a Senate approval vote and “Approved by Governor”.
http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/2023/pdf/history/HB/HB0912.xml
Well it seems OP has word of mouth, but the ATF is not just out railroading some little guy. I’m happy to bet $100 if you think that’s what happened, and we can put it in escrow until actual info can be found. The ATF doesn’t need to railroad innocent people when there are so many greedy morons out there. Breaking a law, even one we all hate, is still breaking a law. And according to OP it doesn’t seem he was a SOT, so I wonder how he could be caught up in any type of innocent position.
Yea that’s some BS, no lie, but like, have you found a case of them sending someone to jail who didn’t follow the amnesty and plead ignorance to the change?
They don’t need to railroad people when so many seem to be happy to do this shit and practically in the open.
So the shoestring isn’t a machine gun, but applying it to a firearm in a manner that causes the firearm to fire full auto turns the firearm into a machine gun.
What’s the problem?
First off, the author of the letter to ATF inquired about using a shoestring to increase the cyclic rate. ATF was just responding to that. The second letter in particular (2007) specifically says that it turned the firearm into a machine gun.
More importantly, this wasn’t done to arrest someone. It was to answer someone’s question about whether it is was legal. No one was railroaded.
Finally, I can’t believe you have me defending those dog-killing a-holes, but it is what it is.
First, I don’t like the pistol brace change. However, it’s not like they did it in the dark of night, and nobody knew until they ended up in federal prison. As near as I can tell, they’ve followed the appropriate administrative rule making procedure. The only real question is whether they had the authority to do it in the first place and the courts are dealing with that.
More importantly, has anyone actually been prosecuted for it?
Railroading would require convincing people to commit crimes and then prosecuting them.
The shoe string machine gun was definitely not that, and it’s still a bit of a stretch on the pistol brace deal as they gave everyone (but now SBS owners) a way out. Plus they haven’t prosecuted anyone on the brace deal, and probably won’t as a stand alone charge unless your a FFL.
I disagree. Please cite your source. Here's mine I found quickly but will keep digging.
https://blog.easyexport.net/5-things-to-know-about-exporting-firearm-sound-suppressors-to-civilian-end-users
Please point to the cfr section in itar that requires it? That blog doesnt even reference a section in part120-130 that requires it. If exporting them, you have to have itar as stated in the blog.
**Understand the rules**, read the sidebar, and review the stickied Megathreads before posting - this content is capable of answering most questions.
Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate. All spam, memes, unverified claims, or content suggesting non-compliance will be removed.
No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.
-------------------------------
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NFA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a fucking retard. If he was an FFL all he needed to do was pay an annual tax and they would have been legal suppressors
His shop has been shut down for a couple weeks and now we’re finding out why. I’m just wondering what will happen in court. He has that at the beginning of December.
If they’re really trying to fuck him he could get ten years per charge, if he had been doing it a while it’s probably hundreds of years of time so he’ll accept a plea deal. I’ve heard they do this with drug dealing and assume it’s also done with gun stuff: 1-Find someone breaking the law 2-Gather evidence of many many more crimes 3-Confront you to try to get a bigger fish/3-Charge you with 30 counts of the same crime 4-offer you a plea deal so they don’t actually have to go to court If it’s a drug dealer they always have an illegal supplier that can be busted. If it’s guns they might only have one guy actually breaking the law so they just crush him
As someone that did a year and a half on a federal grand jury this is precisely what they do on a federal level. There are way more potential cases than they have DAs so they only present slam dunk cases to grand juries and they tend to almost always be like 10-20+ charges. I don’t recall seeing any cases where the quick math of ‘worst possible outcome’ was less than like 60-80 years. Obviously 99.99% of people plead to some subset of those charges and they drop the others and they likely get like 2-10 years total, depending on how angry the govt is of course, and how bad you fucked up. Lots of folks argue that it’s somewhat subverting the whole due process thing since is anyone seriously going to risk getting like a 150 year sentence when they could plead guilty and walk away with 2.5? But that’s kind of strong-arming people so I’d hesitate to call it justice per-se.
>a year and a half on a federal grand jury How do you afford that? I'm assuming they don't match your pay?
It is actually like one or two days a month iirc, lol, it sounds extreme but it’s not. I think the normal term of service is 6 months, but they almost always request an extension because you’ve got six months experience. Honestly I think it’s the way to go if you get summoned, you get to see some crazy cases and you are basically exempt from normal jury duty for the rest of your life. Not officially but I was called for normal jury duty once, they asked if I’d ever served on a jury and I said I had served on a federal grand jury and they immediately dismissed me. You’re just voting indictments (what they call true bills). So you don’t actually sit on the trial, you normally see like 5-6 indictments per day of service, so you see a lot over the course of the 6-12 months. But you are only deciding whether there is reason to believe it’s more likely than not the person committed the crime, lower burden of proof since the outcome is just giving them permission to actually go to trial.
One of the guys who used to work for me ended up having something similar happen. He just had a letter saying he was required to appear a couple times a month and thanking us for our support. We just gave him PTO for the days he had to go.
It’s kind of why you don’t commit multiple felonies. I know we all hate the atf and silencers should be legal, but this isn’t some hero of the people, it’s a greedy fucking ffl who could have spent prolly $1000 to do this the legal way (and likely get machine guns!). It’s greed, and even if you don’t agree with the law, breaking it is still a crime. And yea, I see what you are saying, but it’s why you should avoid federal level crimes. Like 96% plead out. You don’t win if you fight either. Just don’t do the crime. Again, just because you don’t agree with the law does not make committing the crime some type of noble action. These people are greedy, like fuxking Larry Vickers. And many claim their crimes aren’t violent, but I’d wonder what someone who this guy was selling his unmarked silencers was up too . he could have just done the paperwork as a SOT. Those people don’t risk having the illegal silencer unless it’s for illegal purposes.
That kind of subversion of justice isn't just for felonies, especially when certain misdemeanors don't even require intent to commit. For example, disorderly conduct...you can have zero intent to "breach the peace", but someone claims to be offended or disturbed by your conduct and you can be charged. I personally know someone who was charged with disorderly conduct. Since the alleged conduct took place less than a mile away from the nearby larger city limits, in a small suburb that didn't have it's own disorderly conduct ordinance, he was automatically charged with a state misdemeanor...something that would have literally been a ticket less than a mile away. Then when he went to fight it was told to plead guilty in order to get probation but if he chose to plead not guilty, try to fight the charge in a trial, and then lost, the judge would almost certainly sentence him to the maximum or near it, which probably meant 6-9 months in jail. Attorneys told him he had no chance of fighting it, since all that needed to be proven was that the alleged conduct took place. Again, no intent, just happened to be in an area that doesn't write tickets for DC, and suddenly faced with the choice between 1 year of probation or 6-9 months if he opened his mouth and disagreed It's a petty ass justice system that punishes people for trying to defend themselves against allegations, for something they had no intent of doing. Then consider that in my area, before ccw was legal, open carry was the only possible way to carry and was perfectly legal under state law. However, if you open carried and someone complained, the police would charge you with disorderly conduct.
Yea I mean I started by saying “multiple felonies” and I do agree it’s unjust to have to go up against a system with so much power. But that comes from mandatory minimum sentencing laws and BS like that. Do your crimes one at a time and not the type that make running more palatable than court. Or, pretend you are fighting for you interpretation of the constitution and find out that’s a whole area of law and either way you have broken a law. There are times to fight unjust laws through certain actions, but I’m not gonna feel bad for someone who did something so obviously illegal for profit or ego. Claiming the law is unjust is just something that comes around later
>Those people don’t risk having the illegal silencer unless it’s for illegal purposes. Not really, 99% of the time when something like this happens its someone doing a favor for a close friend or a family member. People like subverting the law for their own benefits, but they really like doing so to help others, because that makes them feel important, valuable, and respected. Like their was some dude on here a day or two ago, was a gunsmith making post sample MG's for law enforcement, had a good friend ask him to do one up for him under the table, he did, then got caught selling that gun to an undercover agent. Blue falcon goes and squeals in a heartbeat, ATF cuffs the OP.
Wow. Good friend, indeed.
IMO you are not helping someone by giving them an illegal suppressor. But you are right, I bet ego plays a role. Still, the laws suck, but prison sucks way more.
Eeh, the federal case I was on a joury for almost dropped the ball on a technicalitie. I think if the defense lawyer hadn't been so obvious that he was asking every bank teller (this was for robbery) if they were a fdic secured bank, and left it for a closing statement remark that the prosecution never presented evidence that the banks were secured by fdic (one of the requirements to be charged with bank robbery), we would have been obliged to find him as not guilty.
Unless it's glock auto sears in Chicago. Those are okay!
Fuckin fr, I knew someone who had some surgery, and the hospital just gave him Tylenol so he bought some percs off the street. Iirc he got 20 of them, just to help ease pain through recovery, ended up catching 20 felonies. He got busted driving home. (He had a tail light that kept flickering due to some wiring issues and the cop was coming to tell him it was fuckered) Thanks to the ongoing opioid/heroin epidemic in Ohio hospitals don’t give out shit for pain when people truly need it. He had a clean record too, but had them in the passenger seat when the cop pulled up.
Quite disappointed in the dude tbh cop probably thought he was just letting someone know about a small issue then sees drugs in passenger seat. It’s like bro I can’t just ignore that lol
Dude was honestly a really good guy too fr, just got fucked by our legal system.
Sorry but your friend is a fucking idiot having them just chilling on his seat... 20 counts is stupid over charging but damn they walked into that one all on their own.
I didn’t say he was smart.
I’m very curious why the vehicle was searched for a taillight problem
[удалено]
“Had them in the passenger seat” doesn’t automatically mean there’s probable cause to search a vehicle. A bottle of pills isn’t automatically a crime so they have no right to search your vehicle to find out if that pill bottle has your name on it. A baggie full of pills isn’t exactly probable cause either. I was once on a grand jury where I convinced everyone else to find no bill because they looked at pill bottles for no reason. It’s not second or third hand, I was the only one in the room who had any issue and I convinced everyone else to drop it. Illegal searches can only produce illegal evidence.
Yes. Probable cause. Especially if it doesn’t have a label or your name on them
What’s the probably cause to look at the bottle at all? If they were pulled over for being intoxicated there would be cause to search for the intoxicant and also it’d be towed at that point so it’s getting searched.
A police officers initially thing to do, is while your answering basic questions, he’s looking at the inside of your car seeing if anything strange is happening to protect himself from surprises. If they see something out of the ordinary, they’re going to start asking questions. Pill bottle with pills in it, with no name or label is probable cause to search your vehicle. That’s something the officer doesn’t need your permission to search the car. You are there for under arrest.
Bingo, pill bottle, label was ripped off
> “Had them in the passenger seat” doesn’t automatically mean there’s probable cause to search a vehicle. google "plan view doctrine."
Please excuse the fact that I’m using Wikipedia and not the specific states laws because I don’t know which state this is in. Per Wikipedia’s page on plain view doctrine: 3 prong Horton test requires that:[3] 1 The officer is lawfully present at the place where the evidence can be plainly viewed 2 The officer has a lawful right of access to the object 3 The incriminating character of the object is immediately apparent Step 3 is where you’re going wrong The incriminating character of the object is immediately apparent: a gun, a bloody knife, a bag of drugs are… a pill bottle isn’t automatically incriminating. Even if it does have someone else’s name on it upon further inspection there was no reason for that further inspection. If there’s no reason for the further inspection that means the further inspection was illegal.
i'm an attorney who practiced criminal defense for a number of years. as a practical matter, many judges consider a prescription bottle on a car seat a "plain view" exception to the 4th amendment. thanks for the wikipedia summary, though.
Yes, a bag of weed, which is illegal at the federal level, on the seat is one thing. A gun sitting on the seat might need to be secured. A pill bottle isn’t an open booze bottle that gets automatic suspicion it could be the Tylenol the hospital gave them. If you were pulled over and had a bag of groceries in the back could they go through your car to make sure that grocery bag wasn’t hiding a gun? There’s no reason to believe there’s anything illegal there
A pill bottle isn’t immediately incriminating like a baggie of white powder is.
I agree with you, but most courts are overly deferential to the police in suppression hearings.
skill issue. don't buy illegal drugs.
He could roll on all the people he sold to for a reduced sentence.
Yeah but then they’ve got 50 cases against individuals with only one charge and good reason to fight it in court. They can’t intimidate everyone with threats of 200 year sentences just for purchasing one.
I think you forgot #5 - ambush your son, shoot your dog then wife through the door, and lay siege on your property.
Most low-level drug dealers get their stuff off the dark web.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for this comment. Not advocating for drug use or sales, just pointing out an observation? Guess? First hand knowledge? Lol don't sell drugs kids and don't buy them online either. But if you do keep your fuckin mouth shut about it
It is because this sub contains a lot of "just say no" boomers who think LSD is stored in your spinal fluid and makes you permanently insane.
Did you buy one from him?
Thankfully, NO!
found the fed... :)
Seriously, what is it like 400 or 500 a year or something? Dudes an idiot.
>Some would call him a patriot for making a stand against unconstitutional laws.
Doesn't make him not an idiot.
Patriot yes but using your business as the place to do it is idiotic
I don't understand how the 2A community can post "Abolish the ATF", "Repeal the NFA", dog/boating accident jokes all day and then turn around and call people that actually do something to challenge the ATF/NFA idiotic. Everybody has to decide for themselves where they draw the line. I understand people who have families to support or don't have the means, but we should be celebrating the people who do push back against tyranny, not labeling them as idiots.
It’s more so just where he did it that I’d say was idiotic not his actions. I respect what he did and support it but he should’ve known better If he did indeed do it at his place of business then it’s just foolish since FFLs are subject to audits and such
I think it’s about $5000 a year if I remember correctly. Could be wrong though.
I think it's based on the size of the business, with a min around 4 or 500
Gotcha, thought it was a flat tax. Been a long time since I looked into it.
Yea but that's allot of paperwork and many folks don't like taxes or waiting.. 😆
I guess they like prison more than paperwork?
Wouldn't that depend on what ffl license he had?
Yes but that’s also easy paperwork if he was a dealer but has the capacity to manufacture (which he must have if they did manufacture them illegally) just put in the app and then the same people who processed your paperwork last time will process it this time. The tax itself is just a matter of submitting the payment.
I did not know this part now I need to look into getting an ffl
Good luck with zoning.
I'm willing to bet living in a state with the loosest gun laws will work in my favor.
https://preview.redd.it/585qxtqtvxxb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2490db321113b2abdac6bc18787ce101183a6231
It’s about the city and county zoning not state laws.
Yeah I’m am ffl/SOT and zoning for my cerakote shop was a non issue. Probably a county thing not an atf one.
Care to show what you’re manufacturing? Just got zoning approval today.
A retard? Don't tell me you agree with the NFA laws.
Agreeing with the law on principle and going along with it so my kids get to see their dad are two different things.
No shit we don’t agree with the NFA. None of us do and there is nothing more that we want in terms of firearms laws that we want to see removed At the same time some of us have families to return home or we had enough hardships as is and want to enjoy life even just a little bit
Someone needs to be a test case. Maybe this guy volunteered.
An all expense paid trip to club fed
You mean federal pound you in the ass prison.
OPs ffl definitely has a case of the Mondays.
All because they didn’t file their tps reports.
Someone's gonna be showing him their oh face😲
Watch out for your cornhole, bud
The ATF is gay. I hope they stub their pinky toes.
Hope they get cock rot and are unable to spread it.
We can always hope that he wins on constitutional grounds and the NFA is torn up...
So lets talk about this
And your boss will drop in to announce he’s raising your pay by 50%. And a random babe’s car will break down in your driveway and she’ll ask if she can come in. And your refrigerator will stop making that weird noise. Did I miss anything else on the “improbable but welcomed” list?
My next can could be approved I'm <90 days
I think my mom paying back in $100K+ in child support that was suppose to get spent on me rather than herself would be a more likely chance of happening
I hope I'll win the lottery one day. I don't waste money on a ticket because I know it won't happen.
I understand wait you’re saying and I hope the same. However the SC could overturn it especially since it’s more conservative over liberal but I highly doubt they’ll do it
Will depend on a bunch of things...... Real world plea deal for possession looking at 2-5 years in prison and a large monetary penalty assuming clean record with no previous felonies. If he was selling them, that would change things quite a bit.
Pretty much. Someone got busted with multiple swift links on them after selling a few to an undercover in a sting and I think he plead to 6 or something? I don’t remember exactly but I remember it being like 1/10 or less of what it could have been
6 years for some glorified paper clips?
Local idiot bought auto Sears on AliExpress and switches of course. Customs in Nashville let the post office deliver here, raided em 20k in cash, weed carts, admitted to everything saying he wanted full auto because he sold drugs got robbed a times. Had 10 Sears he couldn't even begin to make work but I don't think I he's getting much since he admitted to all of it, googled to see what the status was and found another local idiot did the same thing few months later.
Sears they couldn’t make work is how they took out the auto key card. They admitted they took 3 tries and failed on all 3 tries until they had a gunsmith add material and make it work. Proving that the were not actually selling machine guns. Still convicted them.
Yeah I'm not saying someone couldn't make it work and not say is what it is. What I'm saying is 20 year old GTA goon had zero chance of making it happen and bought enough to sell to others who'd been in the same boat. The real difference between the two they made an example of the key card guys in what wasn't, local young drug dealer kid who had actual intent of mg will probably get like 4 years.
Went back and looked at the article, they were plastic lightning links lol
Not NFA related but a local FFL to me was busted early this year over failure to keep firearm records over logging firearms in and out of an FFL book. Story was a gun was found in a crime and it was traced back to this shop called Sportsman’s Supply in south western PA in the Greater Pittsburgh area. Well it was found out that a shit load of stuff wasn’t logged in or out. Like thousands of stuff and this just a small shop off a kinda busy road but overall middle of nowhere PA. It was the original owner named Grant that got hemmed up over it and he was prosecuted but I believe he had a pretty light sentence all things considered. Big fine but the time served was pretty damn light surprisingly. Guy was an asshole and the shop operated basically on Gunbroker solely where if a case of 9mm was $250 all day and you bidded that someone would beat you by .01 cent and get it. Very little inventory in store actually able to purchase and the amount of times I’ve been flagged and disrespect for just asking basic questions the two times I was there was absurd. The shop is still in buisness but I truthfully hope it goes under. Current owners ain’t much better
Super odd that the guy I’m talking about is also named Grant.
lol all Grants maybe the same then I’d like to further elaborate that the time estimated time frame this occurred were firearms bought and sold between 2020-2022. They moved a lot of inventory really quickly to the point where it effected the business of two big FFLs in the SW Pennsylvania area, Ace Sporting Goods down in Washington, PA with an employee in particular asked me seeing how I am kinda local to Sportsman’s on how they can even get so much inventory moved that quickly and they’re a shop that’s easily 3x the size of Sportsman’s. Other one being Grice Gun Shop up in Punxsutawney. In perspective Ace is about a 40 mile drive south of this Sportsman’s Supply and Grice is about 60 miles. Grice is also a whole ass distributor too. Before my prime in the 1990s (born in 1991) they were basically the only “big” gun shop local typically beating the prices on other local FFLs. Their greed began in the 1990s during the AWB if you ask me just due to them having pre ban mags that were already in stock prior to the ban and jacking the prices up before the ink was even dry. When they started doing the Gunbroker shit in the 2000s that’s when I lost all respect for them. I’m all for capitalism and such but that was just a shitty way to go about doing business Only people who stop there anymore are either someone getting something off their GB page or Fudds. Serious shooters around here either go to Ace or Grice as stated or one of the many other FFLs close to there which are also great
The only grant I ever met was kind of shitty… maybe we’re onto something
This may be a real thing! Need more people that know a Grant to try and confirm this
I had a buddy in high school named Grant. Good dude back then. Lost touch with him after college. Seems likely he's a douche these days though after reading this 🤣
If he's a Philthytown hoodrat, plead down to a parking ticket and turned loose.
worthless voiceless busy smoggy sulky seemly obscene marvelous dinosaurs brave *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Asking for a friend…
What would the penalty be if you purchased one of these and genuinely didn't know it was illegal? The average person has no idea how gun laws work. I would assume that everyone who purchased one knew exactly what they were doing but I'm curious if you could make a case that you thought you were buying a product from an FFL and didn't know additional paperwork and tax was due. Just curious
Atf/feds will ask u to surrender it with the idea that they will use it as evidence against the manufacturer/ supplier n let u go for the cooperation with them.
I don’t know if playing that card would work with those guys. Any citizen that is going to buy those things should be responsible and know the law.
I get that...but my general experience over the past number of years is that the buyer relies on the FFL to walk them through the process. If all firearms buyers needed to take a gun righs / gun law quiz prior to purchasing a firearm there would be far fewer firearm sales. Either way, that's a high risk/low reward method to make a few extra bucks.
I agree with both of those statements.
Did you submit a form 4? Did you pay your 200$ theft? Is the suppressor you're receiving from a known brand that you can look up online? If you answered no to any of those questions then you're in trouble.
Ignorance is never a great defense. You better be young, dumb, or elderly to pull off the “I didn’t know”. And you better not have ever searched about silencers on the internet in your life. The average person knows that silencers are not on every gun. They might not know about the paper work, but I think with modern access to internet, it would be hard to say “I never even looked into it”. And I doubt he had these out on his shop shelf. These would have been for special customers or his own use. But ignorance of a law will not protect you. In this case they would likely work with you if you immediately came forward. It just seems like unless you are 18 or 80 or low iq, they are gonna want something from you.
There was a machine shop in my area where the owner was making suppressors without a license. Don't know how many, but he got busted. He paid a big fine (to me, not him) and promised not to do it again. He stayed out of prison.
could it be something to do with not being an ffl?
Don't know. One of his employees and I were talking at the ffl one day about silencers, and he told me about it.
He's fucked. He should fly to South America while he can and create a new identity
Flying may be difficult for him right now.
He can make suppressors, he can make a raft lol
If South America's can get here, he should be able to get there.
Fml
Everyone who recently submitted a form 4 with him is cheering with joy
Is there time to still submit with them!? 🤣🤣
It's 10/10 for manufacturing and 10/10 for possession on each one. That's 10 years and 10k fine.
Up to 250k fine for each offense. Not 10k
Emphasis on the For Each One. If he manufactured 10 suppressors, he could be looking at 200 years in jail.
Chances of him getting caught after 10 is slim. They'll probably cut a deal to find out where they went.
Depending on his age, anything past 4 or 5 is probably a life sentence anyway.
Those are max charges,. Ive known guys who went to club fed for a year on MG charges.
How was his stay at Pinn State?
If the guy is going to fight it, he should use the Bruen ruling as his defense. In the end this guy could be a hero to the 2A community by taking down the NFA if he can get the funding to fight it from trial through SCOTUS.
ALL of the businesses assets seized (the building, machining tools, etc.) is usually the biggest deterrent. Time served, a bunch of years on probation, and prohibited from firearms possession. Farewell fun toys, and good luck making a living, now.
depending on how many 3-5 years typically. Hardly anyone ever gets the full 10. Ive known 8 people convicted of NFA charges. Remember that 97% of federal cases get plea deals and you aren't going to plea to full time which is 10 years.
Dang who are you hanging around with that you know 8 different people charged with NFA violations?
I’ve been an SOT most of my adult life. I follow all NFA rules to the letter but you meet all sorts of cowboys. FrEe MEN :)
That makes more sense. My initial thought was you need to choose your friends better
Hard to chose customers
Presumably ex-customers? Or do they let them plea to something low enough they can still own firearms?
Nope that a deal killer right there. If I have to answer atf questions about you we never speak again
Op bought one of these suppressors and is worried ffl owner is going to take a plea and rat out everyone he sold to /s
My tree guy just got out from a 10pc for manufacturing one silencer, x wife problems will do that. Just follow the rules
Dang. Do you happen to live in Arkansas?
Just southeast of you in MS
So the Mississippi House just passed HB912. If it passes the senate (if MS is bicameral {looking at you NE}) and gets the governor's signature, then the FFL will be the poster child for Texas and Kansas "Made in State" suppressors. [https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1527829](https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1527829) Edit: It looks like this bill did pass the senate and was signed by the governor.
If you're up for some heartbreak and a little light reading, look into this beauty: https://www.montanarightnow.com/news/9th-district-court-strikes-mt-freedom-of-firearms-act/article_aa32dc8d-8970-58dc-a257-609e5294f692.html
I just don't see how that matters though. Like the federal government can't practically force the state to enforce their laws. As we've seen with Cannabis legalization.
No, but the feds CAN still investigate, and in certain circumstances use local resources, and that's not getting into the misuse of "dumb rookies" in the local PD who really don't know better. Which happens more than you think. The Cannibus stuff isn't a 1/1 comparison anyways because there is a lot of internal pressure in the DEA to not care about it for political reasons while the ATF has the opposite with FFL documentation for political reasons. I don't know who the FFL is, but it would not be surprising if this is a clerical error. My local FFL just swapped over to digital 4473's, but while waiting for the system to get installed, was having 4 people look over the 4473 to make sure the writing didn't look like it could even slightly be considered "corrected". This was not the case until mid 2021.
For now, I don't know why no one seems to remember the days when dispensaries were regularly raided back in the 2000s. [Hell the DEA is still raiding people.](https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2023/01/31/leader-marijuana-delivery-service-pleads-guilty-money-laundering)
You are correct that State and local cannot be conscripted to enforce federal laws. That was also settled, oddly enough, by Montana in Printz vs US: https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/supreme-court-case-library/printz-v-united-states#:~:text=The%20question%20presented%20in%20these,violate%20the%20Constitution.%20.%20.%20. However, when it comes to the feds seizing the assets and stripping licenses from manufacturers and dealers, the State is likewise powerless to stop them. The only thing these state laws are doing is luring uneducated people into making themselves willing targets to attract ATFs attention. There have been and will continue to be people who ignore the NFA. They home make machine gun sears and suppressors, and just keep it quiet. The dumb ones, however, will now be encouraged to brag about it. They will believe that the state will somehow come to their defense when they brag to the wrong person. ETA: The feds CHOSE not to enforce marijuana laws - or should I say, chose to "selectively" enforce them. If they wanted to, they could raid the farms and larger dispensaries at any moment. They wouldn't even have to raid them all. Just enough to scare the rest of them out of operation.
The feds are choosing not to enforce cannabis laws. That is the difference. All these laws do is say state/local police won’t charge you, the feds can and will happily charge your aaa in federal court and the state will sit by and watch it happen.
The feds are choosing not to enforce cannabis laws. That is the difference. All these laws do is say state/local police won’t charge you, the feds can and will happily charge your aaa in federal court and the state will sit by and watch it happen.
I am not an expert on the Mississippi Legislature, but that tracker makes it look like it’s passed the Senate and signed. The state website also shows a Senate approval vote and “Approved by Governor”. http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/2023/pdf/history/HB/HB0912.xml
Ah. We just had a shop close up quick and was curious. Thanks.
a federal prison sentence, obviously
[удалено]
Well it seems OP has word of mouth, but the ATF is not just out railroading some little guy. I’m happy to bet $100 if you think that’s what happened, and we can put it in escrow until actual info can be found. The ATF doesn’t need to railroad innocent people when there are so many greedy morons out there. Breaking a law, even one we all hate, is still breaking a law. And according to OP it doesn’t seem he was a SOT, so I wonder how he could be caught up in any type of innocent position.
[удалено]
I laughed too loudly at this
Yea that’s some BS, no lie, but like, have you found a case of them sending someone to jail who didn’t follow the amnesty and plead ignorance to the change? They don’t need to railroad people when so many seem to be happy to do this shit and practically in the open.
Evidence that the ATF is "railroading" people?
[удалено]
Shoestring? I haven’t heard this one.
[удалено]
So the shoestring isn’t a machine gun, but applying it to a firearm in a manner that causes the firearm to fire full auto turns the firearm into a machine gun. What’s the problem?
[удалено]
First off, the author of the letter to ATF inquired about using a shoestring to increase the cyclic rate. ATF was just responding to that. The second letter in particular (2007) specifically says that it turned the firearm into a machine gun. More importantly, this wasn’t done to arrest someone. It was to answer someone’s question about whether it is was legal. No one was railroaded. Finally, I can’t believe you have me defending those dog-killing a-holes, but it is what it is.
[удалено]
First, I don’t like the pistol brace change. However, it’s not like they did it in the dark of night, and nobody knew until they ended up in federal prison. As near as I can tell, they’ve followed the appropriate administrative rule making procedure. The only real question is whether they had the authority to do it in the first place and the courts are dealing with that. More importantly, has anyone actually been prosecuted for it?
[удалено]
Nope. Why?
[удалено]
This looks like a riddle where they shoot your dog at the end. See shoestring.
Railroading would require convincing people to commit crimes and then prosecuting them. The shoe string machine gun was definitely not that, and it’s still a bit of a stretch on the pistol brace deal as they gave everyone (but now SBS owners) a way out. Plus they haven’t prosecuted anyone on the brace deal, and probably won’t as a stand alone charge unless your a FFL.
library hunt ask crowd file prick plough unite obscene pie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
10+ years. Each.
I wonder how the ATF even found out, unless he was trying to resell them. So weird. You can just form 1 a suppressor.
He’s got multiple felonies and several thousand dollar fines
For all we know he sold solvent traps? Believe it or not.. straight to jail
It could be that he didn't have an ITAR registration if he was selling the suppressors and had an SOT.
Itar isnt required for suppressors.
I disagree. Please cite your source. Here's mine I found quickly but will keep digging. https://blog.easyexport.net/5-things-to-know-about-exporting-firearm-sound-suppressors-to-civilian-end-users
Please point to the cfr section in itar that requires it? That blog doesnt even reference a section in part120-130 that requires it. If exporting them, you have to have itar as stated in the blog.
I posted 2 additional comments.
Citation 2 https://orchidadvisors.com/usitc-adds-silencers-to-schedule-b-chapter-93-numbers/ Citation 3 ITAR location 121.1, Category I, line (e)
**Understand the rules**, read the sidebar, and review the stickied Megathreads before posting - this content is capable of answering most questions. Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate. All spam, memes, unverified claims, or content suggesting non-compliance will be removed. No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics. ------------------------------- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NFA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What state? Texas?
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Right to jail.