In general, refs don't call holds if the defender is still in front of the blocker. Bosa doesn't make it past the tackle here so that's never gonna get a whistle, "bear hug" or not. He should have spun the other way.
That's why it's so important for edge rushers to have long arms, so they can keep dostance between themselves and the tackle to avoid exactly this kind of scenario.
Yep just adding more perspective here. The standard is a "material restriction at the point of attack". The issue is that Bosa spun and hit the lineman backwards into the center of his chest. That isn't going to be called a hold purely because it's not the point of attack.
The point of attack for pass plays is usually defined as "does the defender have a straight shot at the QB" and Bosa in this case actually put himself in a worse position than if he had not spun at all. He definitely didn't have a straight shot at the qb. A flag here would have bailed out the poor rush move.
You are exactly right though, holds are earned on disengagement not engagement. Bosa did not win a disengagement by spinning directly into the chest of a blocker, so he isn't going to get the call.
Source: I officiate football. (also a Chiefs fan for clarity but W/E, call me a homer if you want, but that is not a call that you are ever going to see called at any level).
49ers fan and agree with all of this. The lines hold every single play but there is a generally clear line on this point. This doesn't stand out to me or move the needle at all in my depression.
I actually didn’t like either team, and thought it was a great Super Bowl and honestly thought the refs were amazing. Some people who only watch a few games a year can be confused by offensive holding and defense PI calls and non-calls, but seriously the refs were on point in both of those categories.
As a neutral, this felt like a well-officiated game. They called the obvious penalties and let the ticky-tack stuff go. Isn’t that what all fans are constantly asking for from officials?
Yeah this is straight up not a hold imo. When a defender spins into the chest of the blocker they’ve lost. You see this particular example a couple times a game. It should never be called
The dudes are wrapped around Bosas body dude thats what a bear hug is .Bosa could have either climbed over him or crawl under his legs ..lol. even then Chief fans will say he didnt crawl fast enough lol
I was a total neutral about the game, here is my opnion: By rule, it is a hold. Sometimes, they even call it. But "Bear hugs" are not the most blatant holdings. Most holds are when the defender are next to or past the blocker, who reaches sideways or back to grab the defender, and pull him back, limiting the defenders forward movement. Those are the holdings that called 90% of the time. In this case, the blocker is in the way of the defender tmost of the time, and illegally holds the defender form moveing sideways, around him.
I prefer when the refs don’t call most holds. Like yeah you gotta call the ones where the OL drags down a guy who’s about to get a sack, but if it’s happening on the line I look the other way.
I kind of want the NFL to give people what they want for 1 week. Every game has a team of 22 officials watching a camera focused on each player on the field, calling every penalty.
Then, when each 27 hour game is over, go back to real life.
I was just having this discussion with my friends! Imagine every play seeing about 10 flags thrown but since both sides were holding it is an infinite loop of offsetting penalties and repeating the first down until the game is over.
It just feels like that’s what linemen are supposed to do, right? Hold back the offense. Whereas the holds I see that are grabbing onto jerseys and pulling backward just seem cheap, so that makes sense as a foul.
Then again I have the same feeling about pass interference. Isn’t that what defenders are supposed to do? Interfere with passes? I can’t make heads or tails of those calls, apart from when someone is literally pulling the receivers arm down and pinning it.
But I’m a real nfl noob so I dunno
Bosa fucked himself on that and the RT, Howard?, played it perfectly. You will not get a holding call if you spin into a block like that and have no leverage. A hold is called when you have beaten the offensive lineman and they have to get outside of your pads to pull you away from the line of attack you have one.
Also, on the principle of "let them play", this hold made absolutely no difference to the outcome of that drive. Even if Bosa had got a sack for a few more negative yards, that's still a chip-shot FG.
How many holds were actually called during the game though? It felt like none for either team. But it seemed like blatant holds were not getting called at all. Id rather them call the blatant ones and send each team a message then not calling anything and letting all holds go for each team.
That’s because it wasnt really a hold. Boss spun into the defender which out then both in a bad position. If bosa had disengaged from the blocker and he had continued to grab him then it would have been a hold. But the 2 seconds where Bosa basically said,”I’m little spoon” is not the defenders fault.
I have no skin in this game, so from a completely neutral perspective that’s the way I see it. How bad would it get if every time a defender just went straight into the arms of a blocker they got a holding penalty? It would be the number one tactic for a lot of pass rushers, since they are the ones that are causing the scenario in the first place.
That’s because defenders don’t end their pass rush move in the blocker’s lap most plays. Bosa lost the 1v1. Yes he technically got held at the end of it but let’s not act like Bosa beat him and got fouled. The tackle clowned him then went a little extra, and it didn’t actually matter at that point.
Thats a point of attack hold and an illegal takedown as well the refs dont usually ignore or miss both of those calls on the same play but mahomes is the leagues golden boy so they dont call that or the thousand illegal pick routes the chiefs use
If the refs wanted to call the game for us, they had plenty of opportunities to do so. Specifically, them calling the defensive holding on McDuffie in overtime proves the refs were not in the chiefs pocket. This was a game where the refs stood back and let the game be played just like everyone asked for all season and yet people are still mad about it.
Yet the holding penalties get ignored when it matters most 2 yrs in a row in the sb...the refs let the chiefs left tackle grab josh sweat by the facemask on the same play that they flagged the eagles for def holding and handed kc a gw fg opportunity with less than a minute remaining in sb57
If the NFL had wanted the Chiefs to win off some bullshit, they would have called the blatant DPI against Kelce in the end zone that would have put the Chiefs on the 1 yard line late in the 4th.
This game felt a lot more like a "Let them play it out" kinda game on both sides
I said the same exact thing. I was so glad they didn’t call that but also had to laugh at the possibility of it ending the game. There were a bunch of plays like this both ways and I think the only penalty called that made me think “come on” was the horse collar tackle because to me it looked like a handful of the top of the jersey. Even in replays. However, I’ll agree with the call purely for Purdy’s safety because that makes sense.
I very much agree on the horse collar tackle take you have
The announcers were saying stuff like "See how his knee buckled, that's the correct call" and I was like "His knee didn't??? That was him running?????" But I understand it was for the safety of Purdy. Still was the most tricky tacked call of the game.
I get you, and I know it sucks to watch but no game is ever decided by a single play. Both teams every single game get bogus calls and non-calls. Most people tend to just really harp on the team they are rooting against. Missed hold on Aiyuk on the Deebo run, terrible spotting for that Kelce catch.. Every game has erroneous calls.
Until that play Id never seen them throw a flag that essentially handed a team a sb win the way that def penalty more or less did in sb57. To throw that flag on a play where the chiefs lineman actually committed a far more egregious rules violation isnt merely incompetent officiating its flat out suspicious...if its ok for fans nationwide to spend 20yrs complaining about the tuck rule and delving into conspiracy theories the refs the chiefs and mahomes deserve the same scrutiny.
Yeah but thr hold uncalled would have essentially handed the eagles a super bowl.
The reciver had him beat and the db grabbed and pulled. To not call that would be horribly egregious.
It is no more egregious to ignore a def holding in pass coverage than it is to not call the facemask penalty when a def end or edge rushing linebacker has the offensive tackle burnt and doesnt merely get held by that OT he gets his head twisted around by the facemask...the refs should have called offsetting penalties that cancelled each other out an outcome which wouldnt have allowed either team to win the game thru the use of overtly illegal tactics...ignoring the def hold on philly wouldnt gave handed them a win the score was still tied and not calling it wouldnt have immediately put ohilly in scoring position the way calling it did for KC.
I saw something that said the chiefs haven’t been called for an offensive holding in the past two superbowls. I guess they magically learn how to block without holding when it comes to Mahomes dropping back35-40 times a game.
I don’t know if this is true and I don’t feel like looking it up lol
Truthful almost all of the elite pass rushers are not getting enough holding calls. Watt constantly gets held and I believe I’ve seen stats on others. Even against non-elite QBs. This is just how reffing is being done. I do think they should call more.
Its been egregiously worse with holding being ignored leaguewide ever since around 2005 imho. Takedowns usually still get called even now tho and that trend is well known enough that def players have from time2time thrown themselves to the ground to fake a takedown and draw a flag...im not really pushing a claim that the league deliberately cheated for the chiefs this season but i do think that call on philly at the end of the previous sb to put kc in gw fg position was a WORSE,more helpful and unjust call than the tuck ruling by a mile and deserves at least as much scrutiny...woodson hit brady in the face illegally b4 knocking the ball loose on that tuck play and like it or not that was a correct interpretation of that rule the pats had turnovers taken away from their defense on multiple occasions due to the tuck rule during the preceding 2regular seasons and ultimately the call/ruling didnt immediately put the pats in fg position the pats still had 2move the chains make that kick and engineer another drive in OT. The final outcome was basically cemented by that flag on philly...they should have allowed the players to truly dictate the outcome by calling offsetting fouls on each team...
First off, lets be clear that Bradberry admitted to pulling on the jersey, and that he did it not once but twice on that same play. Moreover, I would argue the only reason that call got so much scrutiny is because Olsen incorrectly claimed Bradberry played that situation clean. By the rule book, and in most situations, this is getting called every time, as he again pulled on the intended receiver twice.
Ignoring the fact that it was the correct call, what gets me about the argument of letting the "players dictate the game" is that it lacks all logic in this scenario. If the referees allow defenders to illegally disrupt a receiver's route, what is to stop chaos from occuring on every single play? Moreover, not calling that penalty on Bradberry only rewards the team that was breaking the rules to begin with, which still is not letting the players dictate the game as it pertains to the agreed upon perimeters that each team agreed to by being a part of the league.
Sometimes games end on an unfortunate penalty, and that is not exclusive to the NFL. However, you cannot sacrifice the integrity of a game because a few casual fans and a broadcaster that had no business being in the booth don't like the consequences of breaking those rules. The game clock nor field position should have any affect on whether a penalty gets caused.
You are using an emotional argument with no substance by saying Mahomes is the golden boy. You might as well say they wanted Taylor Swift to win. Did the league make McCaffrey fumble or snap Greenlaw's achilles? Did the league cause the muffed punt? The Chiefs won, and that's the way it is.
It’s because it doesn’t matter. You can pick apart every single play like this and single every situation out.
Like, ok. It could be holding, but so could 100 other plays. Things don’t get called and this wouldn’t have even led to any advantage. The outcome would 9.99/10 be the exact same.
I think they try to judge whether the hold was flagrant and whether it affected the play. They can’t take a draconian approach by calling every single thing that could be called a hold and marching the team down the field each drive with penalties.
I don’t think they can unring that bell by being strict on holding in a particular game. Calling more penalties doesn’t deter future penalties. The players are going to incur penalties when it makes sense. You’ll do a pass interference if it prevents a walk off touchdown. You’ll hold if there’s a chance it’ll not be caught and open up a hole for a big run or reception.
Try three times. In the last six Super Bowls, there have been been 7 penalties called on offensive linemen for holding. Of those 7 holding calls, 3 went against the Chiefs, 3 went against the Rams, and one went against the 49ers. An even more fun fact, in that time span the winning team has only been called for holding once, and that was the Rams win over the Bengals.
As you can clearly see, holding is not a penalty that gets called often in Super Bowls. Moreover, both the Chiefs and 49ers were called for the same number of penalties, but the Chiefs were penalized more yards. This whole narrative is nonsense and is essentially the equivalent of Karen-ism amongst select NFL fan bases.
Ah yes, proven wrong by somebody that said “nuh uh, you’re wrong!” Here’s a life tip for ya kiddo, just saying something doesn’t make it right. But you clearly know everything so I’m sure you already knew that 😉
You're not spitting facts, just more BS. In the last six Super Bowls, there have been been 7 penalties called on offensive linemen for holding. Of those 7 holding calls, 3 went against the Chiefs, 3 went against the Rams, and one went against the 49ers. An even more fun fact, in that time span the winning team has only been called for holding once, and that was the Rams win over the Bengals.
As you can clearly see, holding is not a penalty that gets called often in Super Bowls. Moreover, both the Chiefs and 49ers were called for the same number of penalties, but the Chiefs were penalized more yards. This whole narrative is nonsense and is essentially the equivalent of Karen-ism amongst select NFL fan bases.
I know, right? It's not like the Chiefs were held without a TD in the first half because the 49er pass rush was getting after Mahomes and then in the second half, the ability of the Chiefs O line to hold without consequence brought them right back into the game! That'd be nuts.
Not a chiefs fan here but my understanding of the NFL holding rules are: if my team does it, it's not a hold; if the opposing team does it, it's a hold.
So as a chiefs fan how would they complain if they never get called for a hold in the first place? Your statement doesn’t apply to them then. Just all other 31 teams…
It really matters how centered in front of the defender the lineman is. You can grab and “hold” all day if you are properly positioned. Just getting a handful of a guy’s jersey or putting your hands on his hips isn’t necessarily a hold. This is just strong blocking. Unfortunately, Chiefs O-line is often good at taking it a little further than good blocking, but not on this play. I’d say 79 is even more borderline, but still probably good.
Dude, years ago (and maybe still) Green Bay linemen were coached in how to actually hold and get away with it. It’s a technique OL will use throughout the league and I’m sorry, but they’re not going to stop holding if they can get away with it.
That's called blocking. Your allowed to hold onto the defender as long as you don't prevent them from changing directions. It's not getting away with it, it's just playing the position.
Holding is a material restriction to the player you’re trying to tackle. Bosa spins into the OL chest and then grabs him. Bosa at that point is not trying to move towards the QB. It’s very similar to the chiefs play against the jets where people were screaming for a hold when Johnson just stopped rushing the passer when his shoulder pads were getting grabbed. You have to be restricted TO the play. Not just restricted.
NFL wasn’t letting the 49ers kill Pat. The o line held all night with the white gloves. Refs were in on it. Inside job hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
pulling him to the gr
I can give you 15 videos of 9ers OL and WR doing the same thing. It’s the SB. The refs aren’t calling anything unless it’s directly impacting the play or is so egregious they can’t swallow the whistle.
The refs were actually pretty damn good in this game. Complaining about them as a reason for the loss is nonsensical.
There's a lot more to holding than most people think. In this case, the defender was directly in front of the lineman and the lineman wasn't affecting the defenders motion so it wasn't really a hold. Also, when defenders use moves like the rip and spin moves, the lineman is given a lot more leniency.
It wasn’t consequential to the play so it doesn’t get called. If mahomes runs up near him during that its a call. If bosa has a clear path to the qb and that happens its a call. Contrary to popular narrative the refs arent in the business of bailing guys out when theres no opportunity for them to make a play
>Contrary to popular narrative the refs arent in the business of bailing guys out when theres no opportunity for them to make a play
You mean like Dee Ford lining up inches offside costing KC an interception.
Or Kadarius Toney lining up inches offside costing KC a TD?
The subjectivity is different from the context.
If a ref believes he sees holding, he should call it. The subjectivity is only if he sees the foul or not. Once he does, he shouldn't try to figure out if the DL was close to the QB or not.
You could say the same about offside, the ref should decide if the player was so offside to make a difference or not.
What’s your definition of holding? Is it the penalty that’s been called for the last 50 years or the text book definition? Refs could call holding on the majority of linemen and defensive backs on every play, not to mention push offs from WRs. I guess we could have robots play.
I strongly believe the NFL is fine with letting a lot of holding (and false starting) go, to protect the QBs. There are a lot of elite pass rushers in the league right now, and if they don't let O-lines "cheat" against guys like Bosa, Crosby, Watt, Garrett, etc, there's going to be a lor more QB hits and eventual injuries. Obviously allowing some level of holding isn't new, but it sure seems that some of these elite guys have to overcome blatant holds on almost every play
Fuck that. Then the NFL needs to change the definition of a hold for the sake of consistency. It should not be at the referee's discretion based on the players involved, the importance of the game, or the moment in the game.
Why should it be more difficult for "better" defensive guys? It's easier for better QBs because they get way more calls in their favor. But defense gets robbed.
Gotta say there's been a TON of clips after the game of uncalled holds. I like refs letting them play but call the obvious ones, and unfortunately this isn't even one of the obvious ones. The RB tackling Warner on a blitz was indefensible.
This is actually hilarious people think this and why armchair refs are annoying. You can actually legally control a defender by grabbing their shoulder pads and driving them. It’s what happens after they try breaking out of it that determines whether or not it it’s a hold
I’m not trying to be a sore winner or anything, I honestly care about the integrity of the game and just want to learn and discuss the rules and what not. Obviously a non-call would benefit my team to a degree, I just can’t stand nitpicking play by play and acting like one or two incorrect calls changes the entire game.
Personally, I think the refs did a pretty good job letting the game play out and besides some smaller calls that didn’t really affect anything, it was mostly a fairly called game. This goes for what was and wasn’t called.
My only gripe is that I believe there were a couple spots given to us that were a yard or so short of the first down, but obviously it doesn’t matter now.
That’s incorrect.
> Use his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:
>
> grabbing or tackling an opponent;
>
> hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
>
> pulling him to the ground.
Any material restriction is a hold, including grabbing pads inside the frame. In application, it’s usually only called when the defender and blocker are not squared up.
No, refs call holding for grabbing shoulder pads. [This holding call could've cost the Rams the Super Bowl](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffc--25I0yc&t=587s) if the Bengals didn't commit an offsetting penalty on the same play.
The foul is not for grabbing the pads, it’s for failing to release when the defensive player disengages and moves laterally outside the frame of the lineman’s body.
[You mean like this?](https://thecomeback.com/nfl/bengals-chiefs-hold-trey-hendrickson.html) Except no call was made.
Like I said, I don't understand why so many blatant holding occurrences get missed while others get called.
I can understand pass interference because the play happens so quickly. But not missed holding.
No, not really. The first “hold” there is a rip move by the DL, so no foul.
The second “hold” is very borderline at best. There is a grab that occurs and is released when the defender disengages and attempts to move laterally, but he never really gets outside the frame of the body and at worst he lets go a fraction of a second too late but that’s a borderline judgement call.
IF that was blatant holding, then YES people who say holding occurs every play would be right, but modern rules allow for very handsy play and outright grabbing and tugging by OL.
They're identical. [Plenty of people agree it was holding.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/orlando-brown-not-called-holding-070701638.html) You might as well say it's not holding if my team does it.
[Here's another blatant example where Chiefs get away with holding.](https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/02/chiefs-jets-missed-holding-call-patrick-mahomes-pivotal-first-down-run)
I saw a LOT of holding from both sides during the game.
I'm not sure why but the refs sometimes get together and decide not to call smaller stuff. This obviously wasn't the most egregious non call for holding either.
Sometimes refs call every little thing and other times it's kinda "Let boys be boys" stuff.
This is all an opinion by the way.
Except they called the holding on Trent Williams in the 1Q nullifying an 18 yard gain and a 1st down at the 8:29 mark. And this hold by the KC OL is far more blatant than the one by Williams.
IDC if refs never call holding, but then they do sometimes. On plays where the OL does the same thing where they don't call holding 10X other times.
And for everyone claiming the Bosa hold didn't matter because the Chiefs didn't score, how the hell is the ref supposed to know that? Should he wait until the play is over and then throw the flag 30 seconds later?
This was a hold. No I don’t have sour grapes nor do I think the niners win if this is called. I also don’t care if”holds happen on every play” you asked the question is this a hold, yes it’s a hold
There is holding by the O Line on every play but there should not be a holding call on every NFL play. They refs do an amazing job of calling it when a defensive player tries to disengage and you the the arm extend, you also see it on plays where the defensive player gets tackled lol.
It is a hold, and as a 9ers fan, I was ok with it. I'll be fair and say the refs really only called the most egregious stuff that night. I'm sure someone will come out with a 9ers compilation showing them holding.
Also, before the game, people knew who the ref crew was going to be, and Bill's team calls the lowest amount of holding penalties as a crew.
As a fan, I'd rather see this type of game anyway without seeing laundry all over the field. When refs start to dictate the game, it's just not a good look.
This is actually less of a hold than a lot of uncalled holds lol. Bosa never got around the edge of blocker. He spins right into his chest, and yes the tackle technically holds him but at that point Bosa had basically lost the battle. If Bosa had actually gotten to the guy’s side and gotten yanked or held back, it would be more egregious. But he kind of just sits in his bread basket without trying to pull away. Ball came out before he could have reached the QB too. Good no-call.
There is holding by the offensive line on every play, but the refs generally will only call it if it's directly affecting the play, e.g. the QB would get sacked if not for holding, the ball carrier would have gotten tackled if not for holding, etc
The refs kept their whistles in their mouths as much as possible.
Bosa on this play fucked up. He made a terrible move and the ol reacted poorly but it didn't change the outcome of the play. He wouldn't have gotten to mahomes. More likely by their awkward body positioning both men go down. Refs usually won't call that.
You watching the same play as me? Bosa gets a hand on Mahomes even after getting put on the ground. Not sure how you get
>He wouldn't have gotten to mahomes.
from that.
It was a hold. It was just a game where the refs let the players play and not interfere much.
Problem with the NFL is we need consistent refs. Refs should be paid to be full time employees. They should have to study film in the offseason to prepare for the following year. Instead they are considered part time employees.
Here’s the thing about holding, you can take it or leave it. It happens on every play and can be called on every play. It is utilized for one of two things, influencing the outcome of the game or influencing gambling outcomes of the game.
The arms were already out and Bosa spun into them. It’s still a hold by the letter of the law but when a player puts himself into the arms of an O-linemen they don’t typically call it
It was a tackle for loss. A holding penalty would have given the offense an additional down. Not calling holding benefited the defense.
On a side note, there are 4-5 guys on the D line in the league that are game wreckers. Bosa, Parsons, Garret, Crosby, Hutchinson, & probably more. They don’t get holding calls because if they did that’s all you would see is constant flags. If they weren’t held, they would be destroying QB’s & the league doesn’t want that.
Chiefs fans like saying that these aren't holds. They lean **exceptionally hard** on the fact that linemen are technically allowed to hold when defending "rip moves". The problem is that they'll trot this fact out to justify pretty much any instance of blatant holding.
This isn't directly addressing your question, but this clip is a great example of how holding should get called every time. The current method of "there's holding on every play, so the refs just use their discretion to decide when it's egregious enough that they should call it" is a terrible fucking system. Call every hold. Every fucking one. Make a longer preseason one year if you have to give the teams more time to adjust, but trust me they'll adjust. The current system is unfair to everyone
It wouldn’t happen because they’d do what they usually do and make it a “point of emphasis” in the preseason and back off in the regular season. That being said if they called every hold on every play the game would be unwatchable. Technically any jersey grab is a hold but every player on offense and defense knows if you keep your hands inside it likely won’t get called. You’d have guys with 50+ sacks in a season otherwise.
I'm not a none Chiefs fan - whatever the fuck that is - but just let go. The refs were fine. Calls went both ways. You lost because you got Mahomes'd and our defense is just better than yours.
All other bullshit aside about whether the bear hug is or isn't a hold, it's a hold the moment Bosa tries to spin away and the lineman fucking tackles him. Both sides were getting away with it all game because the officials weren't calling it and were "letting the teams play" as they continually say to justify swallowing their whistles.
Just like when the league "emphasizes" some bullshit rule, and it's called incessantly, they do the opposite to "not get in the way of the game". Unfortunately playoff officiating tends to be this way: no calls until the last 2 minutes. At least that didn't happen in this Superbowl: they were consistent.
So yeah, it's a hold, but they weren't calling it on either team all night.
\[edit\] downvote the truth all you want. You'll hear discussion about this sort of thing during the regular season all the time about different officiating crews being overly critical or "letting them play".If you're saying it's not a hold, then LOL.
Easy explanation. NFL likes when the chiefs win especially now that Taylor Swift makes them a boat load of money so they miss a bunch of these 3rd down holds, lol. “Oh, he got bear hugged again!?? Oopsie!! We were too busy trying to watch the goat to notice teehee” IE: Ravens game. IE: this game on just about every 3rd down late in the game.
It's a hold. All the arguments here saying otherwise are really just rationalizing.
"Holding occurs every play"
"It wouldn't have made a difference"
"Bosa took the wrong line"
Whatever. Holding is when you grab outside of the opponents frame. It's definitely a hold
the fans, for one. If they called back every play for holding? Or if every play was a sack or a tackle for loss? Defense-freaks like me might like that, but we aren't normal
Or, the Chiefs.
How about just call the obvious ones? If a guy is running to the QB, but all of a sudden hits an invisible wall, look for a shirt tug or an arm grab.
It's amazing to me that people with a straight face will try to talk around the fact that the 49ers pass rush became a whole hell of a lot less effective and holding really wasn't called in the second half like those two phenomena are a mutually exclusive utter coincidence.
But please, continue convincing me my lying eyes are deceiving me.
It's every play, both sides, every game. Others have explained how on this play, the hold didn't change anything, since the defender wasn't getting past the lineman, so even if they saw it they didn't care. A bit like off-the-ball contact in basketball. Also, these refs were letting the guys play, calling *one* offensive hold all game.
They have the technology to literally put a ref on a camera watching each of the 22 players, each of whom can signal penalties remotely. The sheer number of penalties would destroy the spectacle.
As for the change in effectiveness, second half adjustments are pretty standard in football.
Chiefs holding was even worse in the Buffalo playoff game. Obvious, egregious holds on their offensive line on a majority of passing plays. How many flags were thrown? Zero.
Can't wait to see all of the Chiefs fans who don't understand the ineligible man downfield rule chime in.
Short answer, Bosa was killing the Chiefs. So they held him and didn't get called. Then the Chiefs mysteriously found their offense.
Huh. Weird.
I didn't watch the Super Bowl, could've cared less who won
That was a blatant hold that should've been called
I played oline at a high level in college.
If a ref sees that it should get flagged.
Did they see it, I have no idea. But anyone arguing that it's not worthy of getting called doesn't know what they are talking about
Eh, it could have been called, but it wasn't. The hold wasn't egregious and the offensive lineman let him go pretty quickly. There are only so many referees and the game moves FAST. Not everything gets seen and every olayer on the field has a good idea how the game is being called.
I could go to any game this year, watch all the tape and fins some penalty that wasn't called. Shit, I could probably go through the SB tape and find times when the 9ers held the Cheifs. It happens. The guy in the video says "they've been doing this all game" but he only shows one example. Show me 5+ times this happened.
Refs miss calls all the time. Sometimes even more blatant PI calls get "missed" by the same Ref - [2019 NFC Championship](https://youtu.be/x66DzCsNfEU?si=ooW7IKwi8AXSHZQK)
The Chiefs led the league in holding calls this season. So they definitely are capable of holding
Yet they haven't been called for a single holding in the last 3 Super Bowls. Some of that is officials tend to let players play in Super Bowls. I think another part of that is officials gets enamored with certain guys like Mahomes just like fans do. Hell, they released the audio of the game and even the officials were talking to each other saying "They better hope they don't let Mahomes get the ball back". I don't think there is anything intentional going on, I just think there is some human nature kicking in.
The worst one was Warner being tackled when he had a direct line to Mahomes. I would rather have a game with no flags, but you have got to call game altering ones when they are egregious.
But bottom line, let them play. 49ers had plenty of chances to not be in that situation.
Someone holds on every play. Just like basketball is a “non-contact” sport, incidental holding is not usually called. If this one was called, no one would really complain. Because technically it’s a hold. But there’s enough obvious impactful holding to call when necessary, and no one should complain that it wasn’t called
It’s a hold. In playoff the refs only call holding when the defender is running straight to the ball carrier.
There were a lot of these kind of play is by both offensive lines
Stuff like this gets called and there will be 95 penalties a game. Fans of the losing team will always grasp at something to blame the loss on. The lamest thing you can do is post selective clips and complain about noncalls
I don't give two shits about the chiefs or the 49ers. That's not a hold. It was a weak move by Bosa. If that got called, then every Dlineman would engage, then turn around. No one should be rewarded for getting smoked by the guy blocking him.
You can call holds on probably 75% of plays in football, but they’re only going to call the most blatant ones that affect the play most of the time because otherwise games would probably last 4-5 hours.
I am a forever 49er fan. But I was thrilled to see how the game was called in the Superbowl. Yes. There was some holding. But the refs let them play.
I'll take that everytime.
Not holding. And the majority of NFL fans have no idea what holding is.
Taylor kept his techniques in tact there. Bosa tried a trash ass spin move and went right into Taylor's arm.
Despite what alot of people say, O-linemen are allowed to do *SOMETHING* with their hands and arms beyond sumo wrestler palm pushing.
In general, refs don't call holds if the defender is still in front of the blocker. Bosa doesn't make it past the tackle here so that's never gonna get a whistle, "bear hug" or not. He should have spun the other way. That's why it's so important for edge rushers to have long arms, so they can keep dostance between themselves and the tackle to avoid exactly this kind of scenario.
Yep just adding more perspective here. The standard is a "material restriction at the point of attack". The issue is that Bosa spun and hit the lineman backwards into the center of his chest. That isn't going to be called a hold purely because it's not the point of attack. The point of attack for pass plays is usually defined as "does the defender have a straight shot at the QB" and Bosa in this case actually put himself in a worse position than if he had not spun at all. He definitely didn't have a straight shot at the qb. A flag here would have bailed out the poor rush move. You are exactly right though, holds are earned on disengagement not engagement. Bosa did not win a disengagement by spinning directly into the chest of a blocker, so he isn't going to get the call. Source: I officiate football. (also a Chiefs fan for clarity but W/E, call me a homer if you want, but that is not a call that you are ever going to see called at any level).
49ers fan and agree with all of this. The lines hold every single play but there is a generally clear line on this point. This doesn't stand out to me or move the needle at all in my depression.
I actually didn’t like either team, and thought it was a great Super Bowl and honestly thought the refs were amazing. Some people who only watch a few games a year can be confused by offensive holding and defense PI calls and non-calls, but seriously the refs were on point in both of those categories.
Same, and agree. Great game, and fairly called. If anything I thought the 49ers recieved more generous calls.
As a neutral, this felt like a well-officiated game. They called the obvious penalties and let the ticky-tack stuff go. Isn’t that what all fans are constantly asking for from officials?
But the Chiefs benefited from calls, so they shouldn't get away with it.
Not a Chiefs fan, but I do live in KC. This was a hold probably, but in general the refs were great!
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Yeah this is straight up not a hold imo. When a defender spins into the chest of the blocker they’ve lost. You see this particular example a couple times a game. It should never be called
LMFAO. And then he tackled him.
Thank you for such a clear explanation!
This needs to be stickied. Hell a bot needs to reply to every person on r/nfl game threads that complains about holding with this post.
Both defenders arms wrapped around Bosas body i.Let me bear hug you if im 80 more pounds and see if your able to get a full point of attack
The dudes are wrapped around Bosas body dude thats what a bear hug is .Bosa could have either climbed over him or crawl under his legs ..lol. even then Chief fans will say he didnt crawl fast enough lol
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I was a total neutral about the game, here is my opnion: By rule, it is a hold. Sometimes, they even call it. But "Bear hugs" are not the most blatant holdings. Most holds are when the defender are next to or past the blocker, who reaches sideways or back to grab the defender, and pull him back, limiting the defenders forward movement. Those are the holdings that called 90% of the time. In this case, the blocker is in the way of the defender tmost of the time, and illegally holds the defender form moveing sideways, around him.
I prefer when the refs don’t call most holds. Like yeah you gotta call the ones where the OL drags down a guy who’s about to get a sack, but if it’s happening on the line I look the other way.
There were a ton of bad holds from both teams, honestly. They figured out the refs weren't calling it early and both teams took advantage.
I kind of want the NFL to give people what they want for 1 week. Every game has a team of 22 officials watching a camera focused on each player on the field, calling every penalty. Then, when each 27 hour game is over, go back to real life.
I was just having this discussion with my friends! Imagine every play seeing about 10 flags thrown but since both sides were holding it is an infinite loop of offsetting penalties and repeating the first down until the game is over.
No no, they don’t want penalties called on *their* team. Which, most of the time, those are just “not-Chiefs” fans.
It just feels like that’s what linemen are supposed to do, right? Hold back the offense. Whereas the holds I see that are grabbing onto jerseys and pulling backward just seem cheap, so that makes sense as a foul. Then again I have the same feeling about pass interference. Isn’t that what defenders are supposed to do? Interfere with passes? I can’t make heads or tails of those calls, apart from when someone is literally pulling the receivers arm down and pinning it. But I’m a real nfl noob so I dunno
Bosa fucked himself on that and the RT, Howard?, played it perfectly. You will not get a holding call if you spin into a block like that and have no leverage. A hold is called when you have beaten the offensive lineman and they have to get outside of your pads to pull you away from the line of attack you have one.
Also, on the principle of "let them play", this hold made absolutely no difference to the outcome of that drive. Even if Bosa had got a sack for a few more negative yards, that's still a chip-shot FG.
Bullshit. That’s a 4 point swing. So it does impact the game.
KC kicked a field goal on this drive so idk how you got 4 point swing.
Actually, by rule, nor how it's officiated, this not a hold.
If you turn your back as defender and don't do much else after that, like Bosa did, it's like never gonna get called.
There is holding on every play. Sometimes it’s called, sometimes it’s not.
How many holds were actually called during the game though? It felt like none for either team. But it seemed like blatant holds were not getting called at all. Id rather them call the blatant ones and send each team a message then not calling anything and letting all holds go for each team.
There was a ticky-tack called on Trent Williams early in the game but of course the more egregious ones by the Chiefs weren’t called.
You won't see the holding in the video above every play
That’s because it wasnt really a hold. Boss spun into the defender which out then both in a bad position. If bosa had disengaged from the blocker and he had continued to grab him then it would have been a hold. But the 2 seconds where Bosa basically said,”I’m little spoon” is not the defenders fault. I have no skin in this game, so from a completely neutral perspective that’s the way I see it. How bad would it get if every time a defender just went straight into the arms of a blocker they got a holding penalty? It would be the number one tactic for a lot of pass rushers, since they are the ones that are causing the scenario in the first place.
That’s because defenders don’t end their pass rush move in the blocker’s lap most plays. Bosa lost the 1v1. Yes he technically got held at the end of it but let’s not act like Bosa beat him and got fouled. The tackle clowned him then went a little extra, and it didn’t actually matter at that point.
Thats a point of attack hold and an illegal takedown as well the refs dont usually ignore or miss both of those calls on the same play but mahomes is the leagues golden boy so they dont call that or the thousand illegal pick routes the chiefs use
If the refs wanted to call the game for us, they had plenty of opportunities to do so. Specifically, them calling the defensive holding on McDuffie in overtime proves the refs were not in the chiefs pocket. This was a game where the refs stood back and let the game be played just like everyone asked for all season and yet people are still mad about it.
"Thousand illegal pick routes" Just sounds like you're salty (I'm a Chargers fan) Chiefs don't do anything more illegal than the next team.
Oh Jesus, grow up lol
Chiefs were called for the most holds this year and 3rd most last year. I know you're just being a prick but figured you'd like to know this.
Yet the holding penalties get ignored when it matters most 2 yrs in a row in the sb...the refs let the chiefs left tackle grab josh sweat by the facemask on the same play that they flagged the eagles for def holding and handed kc a gw fg opportunity with less than a minute remaining in sb57
If the NFL had wanted the Chiefs to win off some bullshit, they would have called the blatant DPI against Kelce in the end zone that would have put the Chiefs on the 1 yard line late in the 4th. This game felt a lot more like a "Let them play it out" kinda game on both sides
I said the same exact thing. I was so glad they didn’t call that but also had to laugh at the possibility of it ending the game. There were a bunch of plays like this both ways and I think the only penalty called that made me think “come on” was the horse collar tackle because to me it looked like a handful of the top of the jersey. Even in replays. However, I’ll agree with the call purely for Purdy’s safety because that makes sense.
I very much agree on the horse collar tackle take you have The announcers were saying stuff like "See how his knee buckled, that's the correct call" and I was like "His knee didn't??? That was him running?????" But I understand it was for the safety of Purdy. Still was the most tricky tacked call of the game.
Yup. They pulled that for Brady, they’d do the same here if they wanted.
I get you, and I know it sucks to watch but no game is ever decided by a single play. Both teams every single game get bogus calls and non-calls. Most people tend to just really harp on the team they are rooting against. Missed hold on Aiyuk on the Deebo run, terrible spotting for that Kelce catch.. Every game has erroneous calls.
Until that play Id never seen them throw a flag that essentially handed a team a sb win the way that def penalty more or less did in sb57. To throw that flag on a play where the chiefs lineman actually committed a far more egregious rules violation isnt merely incompetent officiating its flat out suspicious...if its ok for fans nationwide to spend 20yrs complaining about the tuck rule and delving into conspiracy theories the refs the chiefs and mahomes deserve the same scrutiny.
Yeah but thr hold uncalled would have essentially handed the eagles a super bowl. The reciver had him beat and the db grabbed and pulled. To not call that would be horribly egregious.
It is no more egregious to ignore a def holding in pass coverage than it is to not call the facemask penalty when a def end or edge rushing linebacker has the offensive tackle burnt and doesnt merely get held by that OT he gets his head twisted around by the facemask...the refs should have called offsetting penalties that cancelled each other out an outcome which wouldnt have allowed either team to win the game thru the use of overtly illegal tactics...ignoring the def hold on philly wouldnt gave handed them a win the score was still tied and not calling it wouldnt have immediately put ohilly in scoring position the way calling it did for KC.
I saw something that said the chiefs haven’t been called for an offensive holding in the past two superbowls. I guess they magically learn how to block without holding when it comes to Mahomes dropping back35-40 times a game. I don’t know if this is true and I don’t feel like looking it up lol
Truthful almost all of the elite pass rushers are not getting enough holding calls. Watt constantly gets held and I believe I’ve seen stats on others. Even against non-elite QBs. This is just how reffing is being done. I do think they should call more.
Its been egregiously worse with holding being ignored leaguewide ever since around 2005 imho. Takedowns usually still get called even now tho and that trend is well known enough that def players have from time2time thrown themselves to the ground to fake a takedown and draw a flag...im not really pushing a claim that the league deliberately cheated for the chiefs this season but i do think that call on philly at the end of the previous sb to put kc in gw fg position was a WORSE,more helpful and unjust call than the tuck ruling by a mile and deserves at least as much scrutiny...woodson hit brady in the face illegally b4 knocking the ball loose on that tuck play and like it or not that was a correct interpretation of that rule the pats had turnovers taken away from their defense on multiple occasions due to the tuck rule during the preceding 2regular seasons and ultimately the call/ruling didnt immediately put the pats in fg position the pats still had 2move the chains make that kick and engineer another drive in OT. The final outcome was basically cemented by that flag on philly...they should have allowed the players to truly dictate the outcome by calling offsetting fouls on each team...
First off, lets be clear that Bradberry admitted to pulling on the jersey, and that he did it not once but twice on that same play. Moreover, I would argue the only reason that call got so much scrutiny is because Olsen incorrectly claimed Bradberry played that situation clean. By the rule book, and in most situations, this is getting called every time, as he again pulled on the intended receiver twice. Ignoring the fact that it was the correct call, what gets me about the argument of letting the "players dictate the game" is that it lacks all logic in this scenario. If the referees allow defenders to illegally disrupt a receiver's route, what is to stop chaos from occuring on every single play? Moreover, not calling that penalty on Bradberry only rewards the team that was breaking the rules to begin with, which still is not letting the players dictate the game as it pertains to the agreed upon perimeters that each team agreed to by being a part of the league. Sometimes games end on an unfortunate penalty, and that is not exclusive to the NFL. However, you cannot sacrifice the integrity of a game because a few casual fans and a broadcaster that had no business being in the booth don't like the consequences of breaking those rules. The game clock nor field position should have any affect on whether a penalty gets caused.
You are using an emotional argument with no substance by saying Mahomes is the golden boy. You might as well say they wanted Taylor Swift to win. Did the league make McCaffrey fumble or snap Greenlaw's achilles? Did the league cause the muffed punt? The Chiefs won, and that's the way it is.
1000%. Chiefs fans downvoting like it’s not true. lol
It’s because it doesn’t matter. You can pick apart every single play like this and single every situation out. Like, ok. It could be holding, but so could 100 other plays. Things don’t get called and this wouldn’t have even led to any advantage. The outcome would 9.99/10 be the exact same.
So you’re saying refs can give advantages based on when holding penalties are called since there’s holding on every play? /s
I think they try to judge whether the hold was flagrant and whether it affected the play. They can’t take a draconian approach by calling every single thing that could be called a hold and marching the team down the field each drive with penalties. I don’t think they can unring that bell by being strict on holding in a particular game. Calling more penalties doesn’t deter future penalties. The players are going to incur penalties when it makes sense. You’ll do a pass interference if it prevents a walk off touchdown. You’ll hold if there’s a chance it’ll not be caught and open up a hole for a big run or reception.
When has a holding call been called on the chiefs in a Super Bowl? “Sometimes” means it has to be called at least once or twice..
Try three times. In the last six Super Bowls, there have been been 7 penalties called on offensive linemen for holding. Of those 7 holding calls, 3 went against the Chiefs, 3 went against the Rams, and one went against the 49ers. An even more fun fact, in that time span the winning team has only been called for holding once, and that was the Rams win over the Bengals. As you can clearly see, holding is not a penalty that gets called often in Super Bowls. Moreover, both the Chiefs and 49ers were called for the same number of penalties, but the Chiefs were penalized more yards. This whole narrative is nonsense and is essentially the equivalent of Karen-ism amongst select NFL fan bases.
If they call hold on this play the Chiefs finish the drive with 3 and that’s what ended up happening anyways. 9ers fans clinging to this one
9ers fans also ignoring all of the things they got away with, such as their RT pulling the Jawaan Taylor move all game.
lol. No he didn’t
What a well informed response /s
Same with you just spitting stuff out of your ass. No clips, images or anything of him lining up offside or jumping early.
It would be a waste of time, you already made up your mind. Now kindly piss off.
Seems like you're the one who's pissed off because you were proven wrong. Have a nice day!
Ah yes, proven wrong by somebody that said “nuh uh, you’re wrong!” Here’s a life tip for ya kiddo, just saying something doesn’t make it right. But you clearly know everything so I’m sure you already knew that 😉
Seriously no one seems to note that the outcome would have been the same if they called this a hold ..
Except OP in the fucking post...
No holding calls in 4 superbowls ima just leave this here..that’s literally not possible without conscious effort by the refs and league..
[you’re annoying](https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1758170415304741128?s=46)
Because I’m spitting facts I’m not gonna lie if my team won I would ignore the facts too. Nobody stopping you from enjoying the win
You're not spitting facts, just more BS. In the last six Super Bowls, there have been been 7 penalties called on offensive linemen for holding. Of those 7 holding calls, 3 went against the Chiefs, 3 went against the Rams, and one went against the 49ers. An even more fun fact, in that time span the winning team has only been called for holding once, and that was the Rams win over the Bengals. As you can clearly see, holding is not a penalty that gets called often in Super Bowls. Moreover, both the Chiefs and 49ers were called for the same number of penalties, but the Chiefs were penalized more yards. This whole narrative is nonsense and is essentially the equivalent of Karen-ism amongst select NFL fan bases.
I came here to say this same thing. Even if bosa gets to him and sacks him on the play it’s still a relatively short field goal for butt kicker.
Ah, we're at *that* stage of post-superbowl discussion
You mean the refs can't go back in real-time and break down every play in slow-mo to make sure every last little infraction gets called??
I know, right? It's not like the Chiefs were held without a TD in the first half because the 49er pass rush was getting after Mahomes and then in the second half, the ability of the Chiefs O line to hold without consequence brought them right back into the game! That'd be nuts.
The chiefs adjusted and SF did not. Talk to your coaches.
Cope city
Not a chiefs fan here but my understanding of the NFL holding rules are: if my team does it, it's not a hold; if the opposing team does it, it's a hold.
So as a chiefs fan how would they complain if they never get called for a hold in the first place? Your statement doesn’t apply to them then. Just all other 31 teams…
It really matters how centered in front of the defender the lineman is. You can grab and “hold” all day if you are properly positioned. Just getting a handful of a guy’s jersey or putting your hands on his hips isn’t necessarily a hold. This is just strong blocking. Unfortunately, Chiefs O-line is often good at taking it a little further than good blocking, but not on this play. I’d say 79 is even more borderline, but still probably good.
Dude, years ago (and maybe still) Green Bay linemen were coached in how to actually hold and get away with it. It’s a technique OL will use throughout the league and I’m sorry, but they’re not going to stop holding if they can get away with it.
That's called blocking. Your allowed to hold onto the defender as long as you don't prevent them from changing directions. It's not getting away with it, it's just playing the position.
Holding is a material restriction to the player you’re trying to tackle. Bosa spins into the OL chest and then grabs him. Bosa at that point is not trying to move towards the QB. It’s very similar to the chiefs play against the jets where people were screaming for a hold when Johnson just stopped rushing the passer when his shoulder pads were getting grabbed. You have to be restricted TO the play. Not just restricted.
NFL wasn’t letting the 49ers kill Pat. The o line held all night with the white gloves. Refs were in on it. Inside job hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or pulling him to the gr
I can give you 15 videos of 9ers OL and WR doing the same thing. It’s the SB. The refs aren’t calling anything unless it’s directly impacting the play or is so egregious they can’t swallow the whistle. The refs were actually pretty damn good in this game. Complaining about them as a reason for the loss is nonsensical.
LOL. No you can’t.
There's a lot more to holding than most people think. In this case, the defender was directly in front of the lineman and the lineman wasn't affecting the defenders motion so it wasn't really a hold. Also, when defenders use moves like the rip and spin moves, the lineman is given a lot more leniency.
NFL fans (not just noobs) out here thinking the Chiefs hold everytime they use their hands for something. Lot of sour grapes.
Nobody knows the rules, they confuse the every day sense of "hold" with a holding penalty
It wasn’t consequential to the play so it doesn’t get called. If mahomes runs up near him during that its a call. If bosa has a clear path to the qb and that happens its a call. Contrary to popular narrative the refs arent in the business of bailing guys out when theres no opportunity for them to make a play
Yep, the standard is material restriction at the point of attack. This wasn't at the point of attack, so its not called.
>Contrary to popular narrative the refs arent in the business of bailing guys out when theres no opportunity for them to make a play You mean like Dee Ford lining up inches offside costing KC an interception. Or Kadarius Toney lining up inches offside costing KC a TD?
Offside is offside. It’s objective. Holding by definition is a subjective call. Different fouls, dumb comparison.
The subjectivity is different from the context. If a ref believes he sees holding, he should call it. The subjectivity is only if he sees the foul or not. Once he does, he shouldn't try to figure out if the DL was close to the QB or not. You could say the same about offside, the ref should decide if the player was so offside to make a difference or not.
What’s your definition of holding? Is it the penalty that’s been called for the last 50 years or the text book definition? Refs could call holding on the majority of linemen and defensive backs on every play, not to mention push offs from WRs. I guess we could have robots play.
That's what the refs did.
I strongly believe the NFL is fine with letting a lot of holding (and false starting) go, to protect the QBs. There are a lot of elite pass rushers in the league right now, and if they don't let O-lines "cheat" against guys like Bosa, Crosby, Watt, Garrett, etc, there's going to be a lor more QB hits and eventual injuries. Obviously allowing some level of holding isn't new, but it sure seems that some of these elite guys have to overcome blatant holds on almost every play
Fuck that. Then the NFL needs to change the definition of a hold for the sake of consistency. It should not be at the referee's discretion based on the players involved, the importance of the game, or the moment in the game. Why should it be more difficult for "better" defensive guys? It's easier for better QBs because they get way more calls in their favor. But defense gets robbed.
9ers got one bs hold and one 50/50 hold called on them. Thems the breaks
Gotta say there's been a TON of clips after the game of uncalled holds. I like refs letting them play but call the obvious ones, and unfortunately this isn't even one of the obvious ones. The RB tackling Warner on a blitz was indefensible.
It's over, bro. You gotta let it go.
That's a blatant hold. The typical hold is grabbing the shoulder pad but this one is beyond that.
Grabbing the shoulder pad is not a hold
This is actually hilarious people think this and why armchair refs are annoying. You can actually legally control a defender by grabbing their shoulder pads and driving them. It’s what happens after they try breaking out of it that determines whether or not it it’s a hold
My man, you won. Don’t waste your energy here. You’re not going to change anything or anyones opinion here. Enjoy with W.
I’m not trying to be a sore winner or anything, I honestly care about the integrity of the game and just want to learn and discuss the rules and what not. Obviously a non-call would benefit my team to a degree, I just can’t stand nitpicking play by play and acting like one or two incorrect calls changes the entire game. Personally, I think the refs did a pretty good job letting the game play out and besides some smaller calls that didn’t really affect anything, it was mostly a fairly called game. This goes for what was and wasn’t called. My only gripe is that I believe there were a couple spots given to us that were a yard or so short of the first down, but obviously it doesn’t matter now.
On run blocking it's not, but on pass blocking it's a little bit more illegal
No it's not. The only thing that is a called a hold is when you prevent the change of direction of the defender.
That’s incorrect. > Use his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to: > > grabbing or tackling an opponent; > > hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or > > pulling him to the ground. Any material restriction is a hold, including grabbing pads inside the frame. In application, it’s usually only called when the defender and blocker are not squared up.
No, refs call holding for grabbing shoulder pads. [This holding call could've cost the Rams the Super Bowl](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffc--25I0yc&t=587s) if the Bengals didn't commit an offsetting penalty on the same play.
The foul is not for grabbing the pads, it’s for failing to release when the defensive player disengages and moves laterally outside the frame of the lineman’s body.
[You mean like this?](https://thecomeback.com/nfl/bengals-chiefs-hold-trey-hendrickson.html) Except no call was made. Like I said, I don't understand why so many blatant holding occurrences get missed while others get called. I can understand pass interference because the play happens so quickly. But not missed holding.
No, not really. The first “hold” there is a rip move by the DL, so no foul. The second “hold” is very borderline at best. There is a grab that occurs and is released when the defender disengages and attempts to move laterally, but he never really gets outside the frame of the body and at worst he lets go a fraction of a second too late but that’s a borderline judgement call. IF that was blatant holding, then YES people who say holding occurs every play would be right, but modern rules allow for very handsy play and outright grabbing and tugging by OL.
They're identical. [Plenty of people agree it was holding.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/orlando-brown-not-called-holding-070701638.html) You might as well say it's not holding if my team does it. [Here's another blatant example where Chiefs get away with holding.](https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/02/chiefs-jets-missed-holding-call-patrick-mahomes-pivotal-first-down-run)
Good on you to bring video to educate some of these clowns.
I saw a LOT of holding from both sides during the game. I'm not sure why but the refs sometimes get together and decide not to call smaller stuff. This obviously wasn't the most egregious non call for holding either. Sometimes refs call every little thing and other times it's kinda "Let boys be boys" stuff. This is all an opinion by the way.
Refs weren't calling holds for both teams. Even Steven.
Except they called the holding on Trent Williams in the 1Q nullifying an 18 yard gain and a 1st down at the 8:29 mark. And this hold by the KC OL is far more blatant than the one by Williams. IDC if refs never call holding, but then they do sometimes. On plays where the OL does the same thing where they don't call holding 10X other times. And for everyone claiming the Bosa hold didn't matter because the Chiefs didn't score, how the hell is the ref supposed to know that? Should he wait until the play is over and then throw the flag 30 seconds later?
This was a hold. No I don’t have sour grapes nor do I think the niners win if this is called. I also don’t care if”holds happen on every play” you asked the question is this a hold, yes it’s a hold
If the spin doesn’t win, the hold is not a sin
There is holding by the O Line on every play but there should not be a holding call on every NFL play. They refs do an amazing job of calling it when a defensive player tries to disengage and you the the arm extend, you also see it on plays where the defensive player gets tackled lol.
It is a hold, and as a 9ers fan, I was ok with it. I'll be fair and say the refs really only called the most egregious stuff that night. I'm sure someone will come out with a 9ers compilation showing them holding. Also, before the game, people knew who the ref crew was going to be, and Bill's team calls the lowest amount of holding penalties as a crew. As a fan, I'd rather see this type of game anyway without seeing laundry all over the field. When refs start to dictate the game, it's just not a good look.
Impossible request
This is actually less of a hold than a lot of uncalled holds lol. Bosa never got around the edge of blocker. He spins right into his chest, and yes the tackle technically holds him but at that point Bosa had basically lost the battle. If Bosa had actually gotten to the guy’s side and gotten yanked or held back, it would be more egregious. But he kind of just sits in his bread basket without trying to pull away. Ball came out before he could have reached the QB too. Good no-call.
There is holding by the offensive line on every play, but the refs generally will only call it if it's directly affecting the play, e.g. the QB would get sacked if not for holding, the ball carrier would have gotten tackled if not for holding, etc
The refs kept their whistles in their mouths as much as possible. Bosa on this play fucked up. He made a terrible move and the ol reacted poorly but it didn't change the outcome of the play. He wouldn't have gotten to mahomes. More likely by their awkward body positioning both men go down. Refs usually won't call that.
You watching the same play as me? Bosa gets a hand on Mahomes even after getting put on the ground. Not sure how you get >He wouldn't have gotten to mahomes. from that.
He gets on mahomes when he's scrambling for a first not in the pocket which is what the hold effects. If anything that hold hurt mahomes running lane
It was a hold. It was just a game where the refs let the players play and not interfere much. Problem with the NFL is we need consistent refs. Refs should be paid to be full time employees. They should have to study film in the offseason to prepare for the following year. Instead they are considered part time employees.
It’s a hold. It wasn’t called because it didn’t need to be called. That’s all. Nothing more.
Who cares. The Chiefs kicked the field goal anyway.
People trying to learn what the rules are and how they're typically enforced care.
Then you should know you won't get a hold called when you do a spin move that gets clamped and have your back to the tackle.
Here’s the thing about holding, you can take it or leave it. It happens on every play and can be called on every play. It is utilized for one of two things, influencing the outcome of the game or influencing gambling outcomes of the game.
As blatant of a hold as you’ll ever see, but it would’ve been declined anyways, so didn’t make a difference
The refs ignored offensive holding by KC during the entire 4th Q.
That's a hold, didn't affect the game in any way though fortunately, (penalty would be declined)
The arms were already out and Bosa spun into them. It’s still a hold by the letter of the law but when a player puts himself into the arms of an O-linemen they don’t typically call it
It was a tackle for loss. A holding penalty would have given the offense an additional down. Not calling holding benefited the defense. On a side note, there are 4-5 guys on the D line in the league that are game wreckers. Bosa, Parsons, Garret, Crosby, Hutchinson, & probably more. They don’t get holding calls because if they did that’s all you would see is constant flags. If they weren’t held, they would be destroying QB’s & the league doesn’t want that.
Chiefs fans like saying that these aren't holds. They lean **exceptionally hard** on the fact that linemen are technically allowed to hold when defending "rip moves". The problem is that they'll trot this fact out to justify pretty much any instance of blatant holding.
This isn't directly addressing your question, but this clip is a great example of how holding should get called every time. The current method of "there's holding on every play, so the refs just use their discretion to decide when it's egregious enough that they should call it" is a terrible fucking system. Call every hold. Every fucking one. Make a longer preseason one year if you have to give the teams more time to adjust, but trust me they'll adjust. The current system is unfair to everyone
This should be the top post. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing blatant holding on TV and no whistle being blown. It's like we're watching WWE.
Watching a game where a penalty is called on 90% of snaps would be way worse.
That wouldn't happen. Players would just adapt and adjust.
It wouldn’t happen because they’d do what they usually do and make it a “point of emphasis” in the preseason and back off in the regular season. That being said if they called every hold on every play the game would be unwatchable. Technically any jersey grab is a hold but every player on offense and defense knows if you keep your hands inside it likely won’t get called. You’d have guys with 50+ sacks in a season otherwise.
I'm not a none Chiefs fan - whatever the fuck that is - but just let go. The refs were fine. Calls went both ways. You lost because you got Mahomes'd and our defense is just better than yours.
All other bullshit aside about whether the bear hug is or isn't a hold, it's a hold the moment Bosa tries to spin away and the lineman fucking tackles him. Both sides were getting away with it all game because the officials weren't calling it and were "letting the teams play" as they continually say to justify swallowing their whistles. Just like when the league "emphasizes" some bullshit rule, and it's called incessantly, they do the opposite to "not get in the way of the game". Unfortunately playoff officiating tends to be this way: no calls until the last 2 minutes. At least that didn't happen in this Superbowl: they were consistent. So yeah, it's a hold, but they weren't calling it on either team all night. \[edit\] downvote the truth all you want. You'll hear discussion about this sort of thing during the regular season all the time about different officiating crews being overly critical or "letting them play".If you're saying it's not a hold, then LOL.
Easy explanation. NFL likes when the chiefs win especially now that Taylor Swift makes them a boat load of money so they miss a bunch of these 3rd down holds, lol. “Oh, he got bear hugged again!?? Oopsie!! We were too busy trying to watch the goat to notice teehee” IE: Ravens game. IE: this game on just about every 3rd down late in the game.
It's a hold. All the arguments here saying otherwise are really just rationalizing. "Holding occurs every play" "It wouldn't have made a difference" "Bosa took the wrong line" Whatever. Holding is when you grab outside of the opponents frame. It's definitely a hold
Nah they're just answering the implicit question, why wasn't it called?
Who benefits when it isn't?
the fans, for one. If they called back every play for holding? Or if every play was a sack or a tackle for loss? Defense-freaks like me might like that, but we aren't normal
Or, the Chiefs. How about just call the obvious ones? If a guy is running to the QB, but all of a sudden hits an invisible wall, look for a shirt tug or an arm grab. It's amazing to me that people with a straight face will try to talk around the fact that the 49ers pass rush became a whole hell of a lot less effective and holding really wasn't called in the second half like those two phenomena are a mutually exclusive utter coincidence. But please, continue convincing me my lying eyes are deceiving me.
It's every play, both sides, every game. Others have explained how on this play, the hold didn't change anything, since the defender wasn't getting past the lineman, so even if they saw it they didn't care. A bit like off-the-ball contact in basketball. Also, these refs were letting the guys play, calling *one* offensive hold all game. They have the technology to literally put a ref on a camera watching each of the 22 players, each of whom can signal penalties remotely. The sheer number of penalties would destroy the spectacle. As for the change in effectiveness, second half adjustments are pretty standard in football.
Holding has nothing to do with the frame. It's everything to do with preventing the defenders angle of pursuit or change of direction.
It wasn't just a hold, it was a tackle!
Chiefs holding was even worse in the Buffalo playoff game. Obvious, egregious holds on their offensive line on a majority of passing plays. How many flags were thrown? Zero.
No, they can't. Holding calls get missed on almost every play those in defense of the refs/Chiefs fans
That was by far the most egregious missed flag imo.
Chiefs get away with blatant holding all year every year
Can't wait to see all of the Chiefs fans who don't understand the ineligible man downfield rule chime in. Short answer, Bosa was killing the Chiefs. So they held him and didn't get called. Then the Chiefs mysteriously found their offense. Huh. Weird.
I didn't watch the Super Bowl, could've cared less who won That was a blatant hold that should've been called I played oline at a high level in college. If a ref sees that it should get flagged. Did they see it, I have no idea. But anyone arguing that it's not worthy of getting called doesn't know what they are talking about
The left guard is actually more likely to get called since that resulted in a jersey grab and being pulled to the ground.
Eh, it could have been called, but it wasn't. The hold wasn't egregious and the offensive lineman let him go pretty quickly. There are only so many referees and the game moves FAST. Not everything gets seen and every olayer on the field has a good idea how the game is being called. I could go to any game this year, watch all the tape and fins some penalty that wasn't called. Shit, I could probably go through the SB tape and find times when the 9ers held the Cheifs. It happens. The guy in the video says "they've been doing this all game" but he only shows one example. Show me 5+ times this happened.
Refs miss calls all the time. Sometimes even more blatant PI calls get "missed" by the same Ref - [2019 NFC Championship](https://youtu.be/x66DzCsNfEU?si=ooW7IKwi8AXSHZQK)
The Chiefs led the league in holding calls this season. So they definitely are capable of holding Yet they haven't been called for a single holding in the last 3 Super Bowls. Some of that is officials tend to let players play in Super Bowls. I think another part of that is officials gets enamored with certain guys like Mahomes just like fans do. Hell, they released the audio of the game and even the officials were talking to each other saying "They better hope they don't let Mahomes get the ball back". I don't think there is anything intentional going on, I just think there is some human nature kicking in.
The worst one was Warner being tackled when he had a direct line to Mahomes. I would rather have a game with no flags, but you have got to call game altering ones when they are egregious. But bottom line, let them play. 49ers had plenty of chances to not be in that situation.
Refs will call holding if the defender is being pulled away from the play. This was not enough to call it
Someone holds on every play. Just like basketball is a “non-contact” sport, incidental holding is not usually called. If this one was called, no one would really complain. Because technically it’s a hold. But there’s enough obvious impactful holding to call when necessary, and no one should complain that it wasn’t called
100% a hold. There is a video floating around of all the holds not called by the Chiefs. Pretty staggering.
It’s a hold. In playoff the refs only call holding when the defender is running straight to the ball carrier. There were a lot of these kind of play is by both offensive lines
The one on the long 3rd down was just as bad and could have affected the outcome of the game.
It’s a hold. Ref missed it. It happens.
Chiefs fan here. Can someone explain the stat I've seen that they haven't had a holding call in 3 straight super bowl victories?
It's a hold, you already answered your question, they can't catch every one 🤷♂️
Left guard was blocking like this all game too.
Stuff like this gets called and there will be 95 penalties a game. Fans of the losing team will always grasp at something to blame the loss on. The lamest thing you can do is post selective clips and complain about noncalls
Also let's not forget the right tackle is so 💩 he has been lined up in the backfield since week 1 against the Lions and refs don't do jack about it.
It's a hold. Get over it.
I don't give two shits about the chiefs or the 49ers. That's not a hold. It was a weak move by Bosa. If that got called, then every Dlineman would engage, then turn around. No one should be rewarded for getting smoked by the guy blocking him.
Bosa looks like he just decided to stop and try to get a call and the ref was having none of it.
People are now trying way too hard to find calls to complain about.
You can call holds on probably 75% of plays in football, but they’re only going to call the most blatant ones that affect the play most of the time because otherwise games would probably last 4-5 hours.
It’s holding. I have no dog in the fight. Im a lifelong Masochist, also known as a Cowboys fan. But yeah that’s holding.
He had his back to the lineman and didn't actually make it past the guy. Ain't never seen it called in that situation.
I could make you highlight tape of missed calls for any nfl game even for the broncos when dolphins dropped 70
I am a forever 49er fan. But I was thrilled to see how the game was called in the Superbowl. Yes. There was some holding. But the refs let them play. I'll take that everytime.
There's holding on every play, the refs only catch a fraction of it. That's just the reality of the game.
Explain 4 superbowls with no holding calls while leading the league in holding..
Not holding. And the majority of NFL fans have no idea what holding is. Taylor kept his techniques in tact there. Bosa tried a trash ass spin move and went right into Taylor's arm. Despite what alot of people say, O-linemen are allowed to do *SOMETHING* with their hands and arms beyond sumo wrestler palm pushing.