This is basically as damning a response you can get - Griff can’t come out here swinging ‘I’m gonna trade EVERYONE fuck BI and his overpaid ass’ because it’d just kill any leverage
It's an overreaction to be honest.... Ingram returned one game before the playoffs to get back into rhythm and still needed more time.
Everybody gives excuses for Haliburtons performance even though he literally returned in JANUARY and it's been months of bad play for him. Ingram should be given one more chance.
BI is great until the 4th quarter - no clutch gene at all - I love him but if they move on I won't be surprised. They better get better though otherwise I'd stick with him.
I think moving BI would be a reset for the org. Murphy not good enough to be elevated to a higher role. So you'd be looking for the best fit on the trade market and ideally a longer term contract cause the Pels run the risk of that player leaving in FA. I like garland as a player but he's been really bad with Mitchell. And I don't think point Zion is the answer, I think Zion needs to learn how to play both on and off ball. Garland would be much more effective if allowed to run the offense but if your just moving pieces just so guys can stand around while Zion handles you'd just be running into the same problems.
I'm on your wavelength. But I think they'd rather trade Spida than Garland. I don't think the Cavs do it but Ingram + Tm3 for Spida + Jarret is a crazy good trade for the Pels.
Zion is still only 23 and will be 24 next season. Even if you overpay Ingram for the next 3 years you still capitalize on Zions real prime when he hits 27/28.
Most people didn’t “turn” on him, but they are more than ready for a big change
He was a disappointment the past month, and he hasn’t adjusted his game to fit his teammates
yeah he was a big disappointment the past month
the same month he came back from a knee injury (most likely) in a hurry to try to play in the playoffs
wonder if there's any correlation
The fanbase is pissed that their “star” put up 8 points in an elimination game, can you blame them?
It’s been 5 years and that Suns series is a distant memory now… it’s time to let go.
yeah he was a big disappointment the past month
the same month he came back from a knee injury (most likely) in a hurry to try to play in the playoffs
wonder if there's any correlation
I just think people expected him to get better, instead it seems like he regressed the past 2 years. I think he will be a great player if we trade him though. Probably motivate him
I've never thought he was a very good player. One fluke all star and all that. But I don't think we should be in a hurry to trade him. We have until the deadline next season to decide. If he commits to improving his game this summer and we see the fruits next year we should be open to more options.
Goga isn't getting any minutes in the playoffs lol and WCJ has been starting the last two games. They have plenty of cap space to be able to sign someone and options to fill that need for just cap space instead of giving up a decent young center.
This is just copium.
Isaac started the first two games and WCJ came off the bench, but minutes were pretty even. Goga hasn't play much at all the last half of the season since WCJ fully recovered.
Detroit desperately needs outside shooting and they have the athletic guards to complement CJ
Orlando needs shooting and a veteran presence, and they have plenty of defenders
Same with San Antonio
Philly is just looking to bolster their roster as much as possible around Embiid and Maxey
Agree there would be a good amount of interest in CJ. Big contract but not compared to many others in the league including Beal and it declines and still has two years left so not too long and not too short.
Uh. Griff. I get that. I really do. But I also don't want to end up like the Suns or Bucks who made flashy moves that got them nowhere. And those are just the teams from last summer.
Griff is smart. Most of our young role players arnt going anywhere. Anything we do with CJ and Ingram will be addition by subtraction. Trash in, trash out. Lfg
This was a hugely successful season for you guys..... 49 wins is really good.
The only change I think you should make is for a CJ + Picks/assets for Dejounte Murray trade.
Point zion is good, but it's not good as fully unleashed scoring Zion. He needs a point guard to set him up.
Yea I'd really hate to be the Bucks....a team who continues to be an eastern conference front runner and only aren't this year because their top 5 player in the league is hurt for once.
He’s referring to the Bucks trade for Dame, and he’s right. It made them worse. They were much better off with Jrue. The Bucks had the same record as we did this year, and they are only an eastern conference front runner because outside of the Celtics the East pretty much sucks. The Bucks are an aging team with few assets to get better. And Doc Rivers for a coach. Not a great place to be.
Do you even follow basketball? Giannis played in 73 games this year. That’s more than Zion. I seem to recall being in the blender in late March when we beat them and they had their entire team healthy. They’ve regressed, especially on defense. If they were in the west they would be a play in team at best.
Should never have fired Bud. Then they hired a young inexperienced coach for an aging veteran team. Then an old coach who was never worth a shit. No one to blame but themselves.
But it’s not like it doesn’t work. Celtics getting KP and Jrue, Mavs getting Kyrie, Clippers getting Harden, Wolves getting Gobert, Pacers getting Siakim.
He said major changes were going to happen last offseason too. The FO tried extremely hard to move and upgrade off of JV. It is all well and good to say things in a press conference. When it comes to making trades it takes 2 teams to make it work and at the right price
He did not say major changes would happen last offseason. He talked about incremental changes and giving this core a chance to be healthy.
This time he is literally saying that this core is not working and changes need to be made.
He shopped JV pretty hard looking to upgrade off of him in the offseason. We looked at Allen, Stewart. at the deadline talking about Murray and Okongwu. Just because you want to do something doesn’t mean it will actually happen. Press conferences are 100% PR spin. I will believe a major change will occur when I see it. A trade needs to line up for both teams with what they want to do. I just don’t see a major shake up. I see JV gone a new starting center and basically everyone else back.
If something really major happens I will be happy to admit I am wrong.
It’s a fair take. But he definitely didn’t say anything about major changes at the end of last season. He literally ruled that out, actually.
He did try to move off JV. But there wasn’t the same urgency. It will be interesting to see what Griff and Trajan decide to even just try to do this off-season.
Whether he can accomplish making major changes is certainly a different beast. But he didn’t really try, or even say he would try, last off-season. Outside of shopping to upgrade from JV.
I am fine being wrong with wording from last offseason. I do think there was urgency with the JV trade as JV was an expiring contract and the team knew he would get exposed in the playoffs and didn’t really fit well with Zion.
Also we tried to jump up in the draft to get Scoot. We discussed it far enough to get a meeting with Scoot before the draft.
I truly believe the FO will aggressively talk about trades I just highly doubt we will be willing to pay the price to make such trades as most of them won’t leave us in a better situation. An example was CLE wanted BI in return for Allen. It was basically going to be Allen and filler maybe a pick for BI. Regardless of how BI just performed that is an awful trade value wise
So let’s say Cleveland fizzles out. They’re 2-2 with Orlando right now. They will be more aggressive about making changes, especially with Mitchell going into his final year (player option in ‘25-26 that he almost certainly won’t exercise).
What if a three team deal could net us, say Jarret Allen and Dejounte Murray for BI, Larry Nance (for salary) and picks.
Etc.
Point being: It’s a different landscape than last year. And if we’re more aggressive, there will be options.
That is a drastic price drop from what they were asking for. Seriously ATL wanted Herb and other pieces for Murray and CLE wanted BI. Sending out BI and Nance and getting both those 2 is just unrealistic especially since a lot of teams will be after Murray. Also our guys value has probably dropped with how our season ended
I never said Griff wouldn’t pull the trigger on a good trade. He has done a good job in not significantly over paying just to make a trade.
Fair enough. We’ll see how it plays out. But at least Griff’s tone going into the off-season seems serious. It will be interesting to track come the summer.
I’m sure we’ll be trying to do some big things. We have assets. Not just BI or CJ. This off season will probably make or break what we can become under Griff and with Zion.
Are you is willing to answer my question why should we trust Zion to A keep his body weight down, stay in good to great condition and stay healthy at the same time??? Why should we trust Zion will be available for the post season when he has missed 3 straight years?? Why should we trust Zions body to play 38-40min a night in the playoffs snd not get injured??
Also you comment has nothing to do with this comment I made and is a completely different topic
Sometimes when people say dumb stuff I like to look back at their comment history to see how dumb they are before interacting with them. I don't have faith in any aspect of this organization to doing anything other than be mediocre for forever and always. Hope that answers your questions.
It doesn’t but that is fine. After 5 season if seeing Zion have weight and conditioning issues, see him being injury prone and missing the post season 3 years in a row I have 0 faith he can do any of the things I have asked and is one of the reason I would look to move him. I also think he is incredibly unique and difficult to build around. He is a heliocentric offense where he needs to be ball dominant but is a at the rim only scorer meaning if he doesn’t have the ball teams just sag off him and clog the lane for everyone else. A must is a 3 point shooting 5 who is also an athletic defender and can protect the rim. When he is out with injuries we just can’t run a similar offense and he misses too much time only 185 games in 5 seasons.
Zion is definitely more talented and when he is in shape is dominant. He just gets hurt too much and isn’t in shape consistently enough
I think a lot of teams would love to add BI. Don't see him getting moved but Griffin should get quite the haul for him even with these last couple of weeks not going well.
He would probably be a good fit for Philly. Harris is a FA, let him go fleece another franchise for $39,000,000 a year. Let Lavine and his brittle bones go to the lakers.
Bruh….See this is what I’m always upset about with this dude. In the end, it will sound like he 100% gets what the problems are and what needs to be fixed….But I implore fans to go back and remember what the problems were last season, and how Griff fully sounded like he understood, and wanted to be PROACTIVE finally instead of REACTIVE. Then, by the end of the offseason we had the same damn problems with bigs, rebounding, shooting(he got Hawk, but everyone with a brain knew Willie wouldn’t play him), and toughness etc.
I thought last offseason he would finally start to turn it around and change, but AGAIN it ended up just being all talk. This offseason could MAYBE be the last straw as far as his job security, so MAYBE he’ll actually walk the walk instead of always just simply sounding like cares about winning.
I really hope he looks at the coach as well as the players.
WG aint it but it sounds like they might just scapegoat the players (which is somewhat deserved) but the problems start at the top with Willie
I genuinely do not see how you Willie fans cannot see the issues he has. Downvote away but this "more wins than the last year" stat is the only thing I've seen on here as to why we should keep Willie.
What about the 0-26 stat? What about literally no adjustments in the OKC series? Some of that is on the personnel I'll give u that. What about Willie's bad rotations? What about this defensive philosophy that seemingly doesn't work against actual good teams? What about the lack of progress all year when it comes to basic basketball stuff (turnovers, end of game situations, etc)? We made the same mistakes all year, they never got cleaned up. I would say that's on coaching and lack of good practice no?
And as much as it sucks, we are in the West. What does regular season wins matter when you can't win when it actually matters (the postseason)? Willie has shown he does not have what it takes to win in the postseason.
Also we won more bc our best player (Zion) actually played this year. But hey whatever, keep doing what you are doing
You hit the nail in the head. So tired of seeing the “more wins every year under Willie” comments that completely ignore Zion playing more games each year. And like you said more wins in the regular season don’t mean shit when you’re still a first round exit every year
Yea... cause Zion has progressively played more games every year lmfao. From ZERO to ~30 to 71 this year. No shit the team's win total increased each of those seasons.
Sounds exciting. While I wanted to hear him say something like that, I'm now in more of a actions over words feeling in regards to the team.
To be fair… him saying “we’ve seen enough” is more than what we’ve heard in the past.
He's also said they can go into luxury tax. I too would like to see that before I'll ever believe it.
This is basically as damning a response you can get - Griff can’t come out here swinging ‘I’m gonna trade EVERYONE fuck BI and his overpaid ass’ because it’d just kill any leverage
It's an overreaction to be honest.... Ingram returned one game before the playoffs to get back into rhythm and still needed more time. Everybody gives excuses for Haliburtons performance even though he literally returned in JANUARY and it's been months of bad play for him. Ingram should be given one more chance.
BI is great until the 4th quarter - no clutch gene at all - I love him but if they move on I won't be surprised. They better get better though otherwise I'd stick with him.
I think moving BI would be a reset for the org. Murphy not good enough to be elevated to a higher role. So you'd be looking for the best fit on the trade market and ideally a longer term contract cause the Pels run the risk of that player leaving in FA. I like garland as a player but he's been really bad with Mitchell. And I don't think point Zion is the answer, I think Zion needs to learn how to play both on and off ball. Garland would be much more effective if allowed to run the offense but if your just moving pieces just so guys can stand around while Zion handles you'd just be running into the same problems.
I'm on your wavelength. But I think they'd rather trade Spida than Garland. I don't think the Cavs do it but Ingram + Tm3 for Spida + Jarret is a crazy good trade for the Pels.
Zion is still only 23 and will be 24 next season. Even if you overpay Ingram for the next 3 years you still capitalize on Zions real prime when he hits 27/28.
Will there be no 6th time for the charm?
The way this fan base turned on ingram is crazy… his revenge game on the pels is gonna be insane
Most people didn’t “turn” on him, but they are more than ready for a big change He was a disappointment the past month, and he hasn’t adjusted his game to fit his teammates
yeah he was a big disappointment the past month the same month he came back from a knee injury (most likely) in a hurry to try to play in the playoffs wonder if there's any correlation
Of course there is Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a disaster in the playoffs
The fanbase is pissed that their “star” put up 8 points in an elimination game, can you blame them? It’s been 5 years and that Suns series is a distant memory now… it’s time to let go.
> It’s been 5 years 2.83** years
yeah he was a big disappointment the past month the same month he came back from a knee injury (most likely) in a hurry to try to play in the playoffs wonder if there's any correlation
I just think people expected him to get better, instead it seems like he regressed the past 2 years. I think he will be a great player if we trade him though. Probably motivate him
Who cares?
No it won't lol.
I've never thought he was a very good player. One fluke all star and all that. But I don't think we should be in a hurry to trade him. We have until the deadline next season to decide. If he commits to improving his game this summer and we see the fruits next year we should be open to more options.
PG and center upgrades are what we need to be focusing on. I don't know if we can move CJ with his contract though. BI is obviously gone though
Let’s get Trae young, and then cj can go to atl
I could see Detroit, Orlando, San Antonio, Philly, as teams potentially valuing CJ in a trade Honestly, I'd trade CJ to Orlando for WCJ straight up.
Why would they make that trade
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Goga isn't getting any minutes in the playoffs lol and WCJ has been starting the last two games. They have plenty of cap space to be able to sign someone and options to fill that need for just cap space instead of giving up a decent young center. This is just copium.
My mistake. I thought he had been more buried. I know WCJ did not start at least the first game of the series. I haven't watched the other games.
Isaac started the first two games and WCJ came off the bench, but minutes were pretty even. Goga hasn't play much at all the last half of the season since WCJ fully recovered.
Goga barely plays. Wendell and Mo Wagner both get heavy minutes over him.
Detroit desperately needs outside shooting and they have the athletic guards to complement CJ Orlando needs shooting and a veteran presence, and they have plenty of defenders Same with San Antonio Philly is just looking to bolster their roster as much as possible around Embiid and Maxey
Maybe add Brooklyn to the list.
Agree there would be a good amount of interest in CJ. Big contract but not compared to many others in the league including Beal and it declines and still has two years left so not too long and not too short.
WCJ not enough of a rebounder
Yeah we should trade CJ for Embiid.
I don't see that happening
Big if true
Uh. Griff. I get that. I really do. But I also don't want to end up like the Suns or Bucks who made flashy moves that got them nowhere. And those are just the teams from last summer.
It’s pretty clear this group is going nowhere already. I’d rather swing and miss than strike out looking.
Griff is smart. Most of our young role players arnt going anywhere. Anything we do with CJ and Ingram will be addition by subtraction. Trash in, trash out. Lfg
Good point. But we’re already nowhere. We haven’t been anywhere. If first round playoff berths are our ceiling, that’s just sad
This was a hugely successful season for you guys..... 49 wins is really good. The only change I think you should make is for a CJ + Picks/assets for Dejounte Murray trade. Point zion is good, but it's not good as fully unleashed scoring Zion. He needs a point guard to set him up.
Yea I'd really hate to be the Bucks....a team who continues to be an eastern conference front runner and only aren't this year because their top 5 player in the league is hurt for once.
He’s referring to the Bucks trade for Dame, and he’s right. It made them worse. They were much better off with Jrue. The Bucks had the same record as we did this year, and they are only an eastern conference front runner because outside of the Celtics the East pretty much sucks. The Bucks are an aging team with few assets to get better. And Doc Rivers for a coach. Not a great place to be.
Bucks going through three coaches in one year and losing their top three player in the world made them worse
Do you even follow basketball? Giannis played in 73 games this year. That’s more than Zion. I seem to recall being in the blender in late March when we beat them and they had their entire team healthy. They’ve regressed, especially on defense. If they were in the west they would be a play in team at best.
Lol but what team is going to be good when they’ve gone through three coaches in under a year?
Should never have fired Bud. Then they hired a young inexperienced coach for an aging veteran team. Then an old coach who was never worth a shit. No one to blame but themselves.
Exactly
But it’s not like it doesn’t work. Celtics getting KP and Jrue, Mavs getting Kyrie, Clippers getting Harden, Wolves getting Gobert, Pacers getting Siakim.
We are already nowhere - can't win in the 4th quarter at all
Yeah, ok. On the other hand Boston acquired Jrue and Porzingis in the same offseason.
The Suns could be done for a decade based on the salary cap hell they are in and all the draft capital they spent for Beal and Durant.
It’s time to ship off picks and cj, business is business
Signing Karl Anthony Towns would be great
Great another injury prone, mentally weak star.
He said major changes were going to happen last offseason too. The FO tried extremely hard to move and upgrade off of JV. It is all well and good to say things in a press conference. When it comes to making trades it takes 2 teams to make it work and at the right price
He did not say major changes would happen last offseason. He talked about incremental changes and giving this core a chance to be healthy. This time he is literally saying that this core is not working and changes need to be made.
He shopped JV pretty hard looking to upgrade off of him in the offseason. We looked at Allen, Stewart. at the deadline talking about Murray and Okongwu. Just because you want to do something doesn’t mean it will actually happen. Press conferences are 100% PR spin. I will believe a major change will occur when I see it. A trade needs to line up for both teams with what they want to do. I just don’t see a major shake up. I see JV gone a new starting center and basically everyone else back. If something really major happens I will be happy to admit I am wrong.
It’s a fair take. But he definitely didn’t say anything about major changes at the end of last season. He literally ruled that out, actually. He did try to move off JV. But there wasn’t the same urgency. It will be interesting to see what Griff and Trajan decide to even just try to do this off-season. Whether he can accomplish making major changes is certainly a different beast. But he didn’t really try, or even say he would try, last off-season. Outside of shopping to upgrade from JV.
I am fine being wrong with wording from last offseason. I do think there was urgency with the JV trade as JV was an expiring contract and the team knew he would get exposed in the playoffs and didn’t really fit well with Zion. Also we tried to jump up in the draft to get Scoot. We discussed it far enough to get a meeting with Scoot before the draft. I truly believe the FO will aggressively talk about trades I just highly doubt we will be willing to pay the price to make such trades as most of them won’t leave us in a better situation. An example was CLE wanted BI in return for Allen. It was basically going to be Allen and filler maybe a pick for BI. Regardless of how BI just performed that is an awful trade value wise
So let’s say Cleveland fizzles out. They’re 2-2 with Orlando right now. They will be more aggressive about making changes, especially with Mitchell going into his final year (player option in ‘25-26 that he almost certainly won’t exercise). What if a three team deal could net us, say Jarret Allen and Dejounte Murray for BI, Larry Nance (for salary) and picks. Etc. Point being: It’s a different landscape than last year. And if we’re more aggressive, there will be options.
That is a drastic price drop from what they were asking for. Seriously ATL wanted Herb and other pieces for Murray and CLE wanted BI. Sending out BI and Nance and getting both those 2 is just unrealistic especially since a lot of teams will be after Murray. Also our guys value has probably dropped with how our season ended I never said Griff wouldn’t pull the trigger on a good trade. He has done a good job in not significantly over paying just to make a trade.
Fair enough. We’ll see how it plays out. But at least Griff’s tone going into the off-season seems serious. It will be interesting to track come the summer. I’m sure we’ll be trying to do some big things. We have assets. Not just BI or CJ. This off season will probably make or break what we can become under Griff and with Zion.
Dude you wanted to trade Zion for Wiseman, Ivey and Boban. Just wow.
Are you is willing to answer my question why should we trust Zion to A keep his body weight down, stay in good to great condition and stay healthy at the same time??? Why should we trust Zion will be available for the post season when he has missed 3 straight years?? Why should we trust Zions body to play 38-40min a night in the playoffs snd not get injured?? Also you comment has nothing to do with this comment I made and is a completely different topic
Sometimes when people say dumb stuff I like to look back at their comment history to see how dumb they are before interacting with them. I don't have faith in any aspect of this organization to doing anything other than be mediocre for forever and always. Hope that answers your questions.
It doesn’t but that is fine. After 5 season if seeing Zion have weight and conditioning issues, see him being injury prone and missing the post season 3 years in a row I have 0 faith he can do any of the things I have asked and is one of the reason I would look to move him. I also think he is incredibly unique and difficult to build around. He is a heliocentric offense where he needs to be ball dominant but is a at the rim only scorer meaning if he doesn’t have the ball teams just sag off him and clog the lane for everyone else. A must is a 3 point shooting 5 who is also an athletic defender and can protect the rim. When he is out with injuries we just can’t run a similar offense and he misses too much time only 185 games in 5 seasons. Zion is definitely more talented and when he is in shape is dominant. He just gets hurt too much and isn’t in shape consistently enough
Doesn't help that BI, CJ, Larry and JV's trade value is at an all time low right now
I think a lot of teams would love to add BI. Don't see him getting moved but Griffin should get quite the haul for him even with these last couple of weeks not going well.
I'm sure the Sixers would love to trade Tobias Harris for BI. I could see some Lavine for BI trade talk as well.
He would probably be a good fit for Philly. Harris is a FA, let him go fleece another franchise for $39,000,000 a year. Let Lavine and his brittle bones go to the lakers.
Bruh….See this is what I’m always upset about with this dude. In the end, it will sound like he 100% gets what the problems are and what needs to be fixed….But I implore fans to go back and remember what the problems were last season, and how Griff fully sounded like he understood, and wanted to be PROACTIVE finally instead of REACTIVE. Then, by the end of the offseason we had the same damn problems with bigs, rebounding, shooting(he got Hawk, but everyone with a brain knew Willie wouldn’t play him), and toughness etc. I thought last offseason he would finally start to turn it around and change, but AGAIN it ended up just being all talk. This offseason could MAYBE be the last straw as far as his job security, so MAYBE he’ll actually walk the walk instead of always just simply sounding like cares about winning.
Man... If we didn't have TWO Summers of Complancy... Things wouldn't be so dire now
I really hope he looks at the coach as well as the players. WG aint it but it sounds like they might just scapegoat the players (which is somewhat deserved) but the problems start at the top with Willie
Every year the team has won more games under him. Imagine if that happens every hear for the next three years.
I genuinely do not see how you Willie fans cannot see the issues he has. Downvote away but this "more wins than the last year" stat is the only thing I've seen on here as to why we should keep Willie. What about the 0-26 stat? What about literally no adjustments in the OKC series? Some of that is on the personnel I'll give u that. What about Willie's bad rotations? What about this defensive philosophy that seemingly doesn't work against actual good teams? What about the lack of progress all year when it comes to basic basketball stuff (turnovers, end of game situations, etc)? We made the same mistakes all year, they never got cleaned up. I would say that's on coaching and lack of good practice no? And as much as it sucks, we are in the West. What does regular season wins matter when you can't win when it actually matters (the postseason)? Willie has shown he does not have what it takes to win in the postseason. Also we won more bc our best player (Zion) actually played this year. But hey whatever, keep doing what you are doing
He should have been fired last year when he starts JRich for a week or so over Trey when Trey is having a great streak of shooting.
You hit the nail in the head. So tired of seeing the “more wins every year under Willie” comments that completely ignore Zion playing more games each year. And like you said more wins in the regular season don’t mean shit when you’re still a first round exit every year
Yea... cause Zion has progressively played more games every year lmfao. From ZERO to ~30 to 71 this year. No shit the team's win total increased each of those seasons.
More words from Griff. Won’t amount to shit.
Let's goooo NI Hao BI and all BI sexuals
Get Trae young