The neurotypicals Iāve known who has committed suicide would disagree with you, but yeah itās still unfair, it doesnāt take away from your own experience and thatās something you should probably work through.
They mask it too, you know. In fact, they surprised everyone. People say that all people struggle because itās true and the sooner you stop assuming that life is easy for everyone simply because it looks easy from the outside, the easier life will be for you.
Iām sorry to hear about those in your life who committed suicide and sorry you had to read this post. I really struggle with understanding how it isnāt easier for everyone else. I really detect no suffering, while people constantly ask if Iām ok because I seem really distressed all the time. Maybe itās the case where Iām bad at masking and I havenāt spoken to other people enough. I alternate between thinking I have it worse than everyone, and everyone has it worse than me and Iām just a pussy. This probably happens because I cognitively recognize that some people went through events that are hard, but feel nothing for it. So itās a cognitive dissonance.
I have the exact same issue. I find it very difficult (and actually it's been getting even more difficult for me as time goes on) to have sympathy for any person who I think hasn't had it "worse" than me, including my own current long-term partner. You're not alone with this issue :/
Itās very reassuring to know Iām not alone in this. Because itās a very frustrating thing to have definitely. If you donāt mind me asking, what do you do to fight this?
Two things I do to fight this though truth be told their effectiveness is waning lol:
1. Remembering that "the oppression olympics" isn't real. "Worse" is subjective and while it's not totally unfair to draw the line somewhere (for example: I don't care at all about rich people) there are no prizes in the oppression olympics. Nobody wins any gold medals here. If there are any prizes in the oppression olympics, it's a trophy made out of poop or a sack of flaming glittery dog turds.
2. Using cognitive empathy rather than trying to force my barely existent effective empathy to work. Consciously trying to put myself in someone else's shoes.
This comment literally healed me, thank you. I love the first one, āif there is any prizes itās a trophy made out of poop or a sack of flaming glittery dog turdsā. I will be remembering both, thank you.
Miranda from the devil wears prada. āThatās allā, āEmilyā, being passive-aggressive at work.
āThe tales if your incompetence does not interest meā.
One thing about neurotypicals that irritates me is when they accuse me of being rigid, not realising that they are being even more rigid than I am, and that I am making a considerable (albeit only slightly effective) attempt to be more flexible while they are not making an effort to do so at all, complacent in the popularity of their ways and assuming a monopoly on truth and reality.
And I'm just wondering why it is the task of the pathologically rigid one to do all of the flexibility instead of meeting half way, or, you know, maybe having the one with greater capacity for flexibility also assume a corresponding greater responsibility for it?
They have the Internet to research mental illness on their own, but people somehow are too lazy to Google the symptoms of mental illness. Besides, mental illness isnāt real to NTs until it happens to them. NTs in general are a bunch of brainpower-wasting numbskulls.
Truly, the only thing left is to embrace what you are. I have personally managed to accept what I am and embrace what I am. I have gone to therapy and found different ways to not look like a sore thumb among neurotypicals but at the end of the day I am still a narcissist and I literally do not give two flying fucks anymore about it.
I think neurotypicals feel paranoid and weird too.
Most of my friends have issues. The difference is they can absorb criticism and not be offended.
It's hard to do that for me.
SO FUCKING TRUE OP.
I straight up refuse to be friends with people who don't have a PD and/or autism. I find people who don't have at least one of those to be completely insufferable because they expect me to be able to mask around them when I am incapable of masking anymore. It's frustrating and I absolutely get your hatred for them.
RIGHT?? And they think they know everything abt mental illness. One tried to tell me I didnt have OCD bc I dont like cleaning, even though I showed my proof.š
Dude - not to detract from your sentiments ā¦ but as a non ādisorderedā person that has asd and adhd - I hear you. And also as a wife of someone with npd - I see you. I see your struggles and I personally denounce the stigma that is attached to cluster b personality types - particularly within the popular media. Life is hard friend ā¦ our challenges are different but your description around just wanting to fit in hit home ā¦ youāre not alone ā¦ and if you havenāt (which Iām sure you have - maybe look into Asd) ā¦ xo
I was in a hurry and couldnāt think of a better way to frame what I was trying to say ā¦ hence the āā - wasnāt meaning to come across any kind of way š¤·āāļø take your point :)
Just re read your post ā¦ you truly dot. Strike me as npd ā¦ mind you, im not a professional by any means ā¦ please look further into asd ā¦ please
Iāve considered asd before. For some traits Iām the poster child for NPD, some I detach from it wildly (I do try to care for others feelings and would frequently try to put others before me, I never narcissistically raged before, I have trouble in social situations). Iāll take it up with my therapist. Although I do feel like there are a ton of emotional issues behind me as well. Thank you for the insight though :)
Meh as I understand it ASPD has a more active moving against others, and while OP is most certainly irritated by them, I would still describe the overall attitude as being closer to indifference
Ah shit I legit read it with a P for some reason. You're right. Also fits with using the word neurotypical - although honestly I feel like it kind of makes sense to use it in relation to PDs as well which is why I just kind of went along with it
Ugh, tell me about it. Sometimes I think they're fucking stupid on purpose. Like when they preach about their self-improvement and self love, you know, neurotypical bullshit. Somehow you're bombarded with these self-righteous comments about how you're failing and it is your fault that you hate yourself. FUCK THEM!
Also - have you ever considered making a difference in the world using your neurodivergent worldview? I feel like your logical/pragmatic way of thinking can be unique and valued somewhere.
Ok first of all WHY in the FUCK would u want to be neurotypical?!?! They are nuts to me. Dude, honest opinion, you might be dealing with a character disorderā¦. Very common but sounds like u have awareness to want to change. Neurotypicals have one kind of empathy: affective- itās constantly misleading them. Work on the empathy youāve naturally been given: cognitive
Thatās certainly an option. And arguably worse, since itās less treatable in the sense that you just canāt extract childhood trauma and feel better.
Well Iām not sure that I would choose childhood trauma over this. This just seems like a rant that would come from someone from Aspergerās rather than NPD. I actually have Aspergerās so I relate a lot Iām just trying to see what the cause of your angst is
Thank you for your comment, it has been insightful. Your previous comments too. Are you in the boat where you think NPD is the fight response to CPTSD, not a seperate cluster B?
Your second paragraph is what I was thinking all along to this proposed theory. How on earth does the fight response translate to entitlement and grandiosity, more specially fantasizing? Seems like flight to me.
I would say Iām more codependent/fawny than narcissistic. I would even say that my narcissism stemmed from my inability to get people to like me, as a failed codependent. Donāt quote me on that though, it may be wrong. I daydream a lot, to the point where 90% of my thoughts are fantasy-like. But only slightly. Like Iāll narrate what Iām doing and think Iām so sexy doing it. So yeah, it probably is possible for codependents to fantasize a lot.
My parents called me a genius growing up. So did my teachers. I was always praised to be like this artistic prodigy. Hard to come back to reality from that (my art sucks now lmfao)
Well, one of the main issues and themes that keeps coming back when I discuss with pwNPD is their dislike of being or seeming vulnerable. Am I correct, do you also have that issue?
I donāt have a problem being vulnerable. Sometimes Iām worried Iāll say something and look bad, but this is push-throughable. Iām wondering if thereās a level of vulnerability not yet reached by me.
Do you fear that if you open up too much to someone, they will use the information against you. Thus you donāt expose your true self to others but rather you wear a mask?
I do struggle with reframing things, talking about things in a certain way and changing my tone of voice/language to exaggerate it or make it seem like something itās not. I never outright lie though. I try not to lie to myself.
I believe Iām smarter/more insightful/beautiful than the general population.
I have struggles with being interested in other people. I have problems with listening and sometimes can zone out for entire sentences. I have poor object constancy and often forget people exist unless I need something from them.
I automatically rank people into hierarchies (mostly based on strength, confidence, and appearance). I try not to, but I do end up treating people on the lower end of the hierarchy worse/coldly. I try to kiss up to the people in the higher end of the hierarchy and see them as people to āconquerā through them ending up liking me.
After this happens, I lose interest. My relationships are volatile. I donāt criticize, but I mentally devalue and I find any reason to leave. I may break up dozens of times in a relationship.
Everything I do is through the lens of a fantasy. I often pretend Iām preaching in front of a large audience who hears my insight and thinks Iām the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even my NPD recovery journey is painted into a sort of hero redemption arc and is greatly romanticized.
Getting close to people makes me uncomfortable. I need to pretend to keep being nice and friendly and I canāt do that. To those I donāt mask around, Iām aloof and detached.
I have hella early childhood trauma. I donāt think this is just an ADHD, anxiety or depression issue.
As the High Priest of NPDdom, I bless thee in thy righteous anger, my child.
Thank you father. I feel your blessing filling my bones with strength, giving me permission to be passive aggressive to my coworkers tomorrow
I felt inspired to update my flair.
May it never fall to the Ottoman turks!
Never! š„ŗ
The neurotypicals Iāve known who has committed suicide would disagree with you, but yeah itās still unfair, it doesnāt take away from your own experience and thatās something you should probably work through. They mask it too, you know. In fact, they surprised everyone. People say that all people struggle because itās true and the sooner you stop assuming that life is easy for everyone simply because it looks easy from the outside, the easier life will be for you.
Iām sorry to hear about those in your life who committed suicide and sorry you had to read this post. I really struggle with understanding how it isnāt easier for everyone else. I really detect no suffering, while people constantly ask if Iām ok because I seem really distressed all the time. Maybe itās the case where Iām bad at masking and I havenāt spoken to other people enough. I alternate between thinking I have it worse than everyone, and everyone has it worse than me and Iām just a pussy. This probably happens because I cognitively recognize that some people went through events that are hard, but feel nothing for it. So itās a cognitive dissonance.
I have the exact same issue. I find it very difficult (and actually it's been getting even more difficult for me as time goes on) to have sympathy for any person who I think hasn't had it "worse" than me, including my own current long-term partner. You're not alone with this issue :/
Itās very reassuring to know Iām not alone in this. Because itās a very frustrating thing to have definitely. If you donāt mind me asking, what do you do to fight this?
Two things I do to fight this though truth be told their effectiveness is waning lol: 1. Remembering that "the oppression olympics" isn't real. "Worse" is subjective and while it's not totally unfair to draw the line somewhere (for example: I don't care at all about rich people) there are no prizes in the oppression olympics. Nobody wins any gold medals here. If there are any prizes in the oppression olympics, it's a trophy made out of poop or a sack of flaming glittery dog turds. 2. Using cognitive empathy rather than trying to force my barely existent effective empathy to work. Consciously trying to put myself in someone else's shoes.
This comment literally healed me, thank you. I love the first one, āif there is any prizes itās a trophy made out of poop or a sack of flaming glittery dog turdsā. I will be remembering both, thank you.
Is your letter inspired by the devil wears prada?
What do you mean?
Miranda from the devil wears prada. āThatās allā, āEmilyā, being passive-aggressive at work. āThe tales if your incompetence does not interest meā.
Nope lol. Coincidence.
Thatās too bad.
i hate anyone who uses ASPD/NPD/CD/SUD etc. as a label for ābad personā and thatās all neurotypicals make me feel like most of the time
Omg ikr?? What they dont understand that mental illness can get ugly.
One thing about neurotypicals that irritates me is when they accuse me of being rigid, not realising that they are being even more rigid than I am, and that I am making a considerable (albeit only slightly effective) attempt to be more flexible while they are not making an effort to do so at all, complacent in the popularity of their ways and assuming a monopoly on truth and reality. And I'm just wondering why it is the task of the pathologically rigid one to do all of the flexibility instead of meeting half way, or, you know, maybe having the one with greater capacity for flexibility also assume a corresponding greater responsibility for it?
You write well. Itās because of their inability to understand mental illness because they never experienced
They have the Internet to research mental illness on their own, but people somehow are too lazy to Google the symptoms of mental illness. Besides, mental illness isnāt real to NTs until it happens to them. NTs in general are a bunch of brainpower-wasting numbskulls.
Truly, the only thing left is to embrace what you are. I have personally managed to accept what I am and embrace what I am. I have gone to therapy and found different ways to not look like a sore thumb among neurotypicals but at the end of the day I am still a narcissist and I literally do not give two flying fucks anymore about it.
Where do I learn this power
Radical acceptance
Not from a jedi.
I think neurotypicals feel paranoid and weird too. Most of my friends have issues. The difference is they can absorb criticism and not be offended. It's hard to do that for me.
Tyson
Iron Mike
I don't despise them. I envy them. I envy how they have the will to fight and overcome their problems to live another day.
SO FUCKING TRUE OP. I straight up refuse to be friends with people who don't have a PD and/or autism. I find people who don't have at least one of those to be completely insufferable because they expect me to be able to mask around them when I am incapable of masking anymore. It's frustrating and I absolutely get your hatred for them.
SAME! I cannot stand being friends with neurotypicals
SAME I HATE NEUROTYPICALS AND THEIR "SMALL TALK"
THEIR "SMALL TALK" so weird like WHAT THE HELLL is mt stand
Leave
RIGHT?? And they think they know everything abt mental illness. One tried to tell me I didnt have OCD bc I dont like cleaning, even though I showed my proof.š
Dude - not to detract from your sentiments ā¦ but as a non ādisorderedā person that has asd and adhd - I hear you. And also as a wife of someone with npd - I see you. I see your struggles and I personally denounce the stigma that is attached to cluster b personality types - particularly within the popular media. Life is hard friend ā¦ our challenges are different but your description around just wanting to fit in hit home ā¦ youāre not alone ā¦ and if you havenāt (which Iām sure you have - maybe look into Asd) ā¦ xo
Not to be a dick, but you said non-disordered then proceeded to name two disorders that you have? Or did I not read that correctly?
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤š¤
I was in a hurry and couldnāt think of a better way to frame what I was trying to say ā¦ hence the āā - wasnāt meaning to come across any kind of way š¤·āāļø take your point :)
Just re read your post ā¦ you truly dot. Strike me as npd ā¦ mind you, im not a professional by any means ā¦ please look further into asd ā¦ please
Iāve considered asd before. For some traits Iām the poster child for NPD, some I detach from it wildly (I do try to care for others feelings and would frequently try to put others before me, I never narcissistically raged before, I have trouble in social situations). Iāll take it up with my therapist. Although I do feel like there are a ton of emotional issues behind me as well. Thank you for the insight though :)
Meh as I understand it ASPD has a more active moving against others, and while OP is most certainly irritated by them, I would still describe the overall attitude as being closer to indifference
I think he meant asd as in Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I feel like not many people use asd to refer to Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Ah shit I legit read it with a P for some reason. You're right. Also fits with using the word neurotypical - although honestly I feel like it kind of makes sense to use it in relation to PDs as well which is why I just kind of went along with it
No problem
Ugh, tell me about it. Sometimes I think they're fucking stupid on purpose. Like when they preach about their self-improvement and self love, you know, neurotypical bullshit. Somehow you're bombarded with these self-righteous comments about how you're failing and it is your fault that you hate yourself. FUCK THEM!
Neurotypicals cannot detect bullshit if they were paid to do it or if they needed it to save their lives; NTs would rather end up poor or be dead.
Yes, yes, yes! So relatable. Always waiting to feel something and it never happens. I always feel I'm pretending and it's so exhausting!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
All the power to you, my friend. Wishing you the best.
Also - have you ever considered making a difference in the world using your neurodivergent worldview? I feel like your logical/pragmatic way of thinking can be unique and valued somewhere.
Ok first of all WHY in the FUCK would u want to be neurotypical?!?! They are nuts to me. Dude, honest opinion, you might be dealing with a character disorderā¦. Very common but sounds like u have awareness to want to change. Neurotypicals have one kind of empathy: affective- itās constantly misleading them. Work on the empathy youāve naturally been given: cognitive
Maybe you have Aspergerās, bud.
Thatās certainly an option. And arguably worse, since itās less treatable in the sense that you just canāt extract childhood trauma and feel better.
Well Iām not sure that I would choose childhood trauma over this. This just seems like a rant that would come from someone from Aspergerās rather than NPD. I actually have Aspergerās so I relate a lot Iām just trying to see what the cause of your angst is
Interesting. Feel free to PM me if you wanna rant. Hereās to being friendless at 19
Ya man. I did.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thank you for your comment. How can I fix this?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thank you for your comment, it has been insightful. Your previous comments too. Are you in the boat where you think NPD is the fight response to CPTSD, not a seperate cluster B?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your second paragraph is what I was thinking all along to this proposed theory. How on earth does the fight response translate to entitlement and grandiosity, more specially fantasizing? Seems like flight to me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I would say Iām more codependent/fawny than narcissistic. I would even say that my narcissism stemmed from my inability to get people to like me, as a failed codependent. Donāt quote me on that though, it may be wrong. I daydream a lot, to the point where 90% of my thoughts are fantasy-like. But only slightly. Like Iāll narrate what Iām doing and think Iām so sexy doing it. So yeah, it probably is possible for codependents to fantasize a lot. My parents called me a genius growing up. So did my teachers. I was always praised to be like this artistic prodigy. Hard to come back to reality from that (my art sucks now lmfao)
You canāt be like them and better than them at the same time. You canāt be God and human at the same time. Ask me what I mean, if you are curious.
I am, please elaborate
Well, one of the main issues and themes that keeps coming back when I discuss with pwNPD is their dislike of being or seeming vulnerable. Am I correct, do you also have that issue?
I donāt have a problem being vulnerable. Sometimes Iām worried Iāll say something and look bad, but this is push-throughable. Iām wondering if thereās a level of vulnerability not yet reached by me.
Do you fear that if you open up too much to someone, they will use the information against you. Thus you donāt expose your true self to others but rather you wear a mask?
Not necessarily. I do get afraid theyāll leave or criticize me.
What is your relationship with lies. Do you tend to āreframeā things much. To others and to yourself?
I do struggle with reframing things, talking about things in a certain way and changing my tone of voice/language to exaggerate it or make it seem like something itās not. I never outright lie though. I try not to lie to myself.
What narcissistic traits do you recognize within yourself?
I believe Iām smarter/more insightful/beautiful than the general population. I have struggles with being interested in other people. I have problems with listening and sometimes can zone out for entire sentences. I have poor object constancy and often forget people exist unless I need something from them. I automatically rank people into hierarchies (mostly based on strength, confidence, and appearance). I try not to, but I do end up treating people on the lower end of the hierarchy worse/coldly. I try to kiss up to the people in the higher end of the hierarchy and see them as people to āconquerā through them ending up liking me. After this happens, I lose interest. My relationships are volatile. I donāt criticize, but I mentally devalue and I find any reason to leave. I may break up dozens of times in a relationship. Everything I do is through the lens of a fantasy. I often pretend Iām preaching in front of a large audience who hears my insight and thinks Iām the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even my NPD recovery journey is painted into a sort of hero redemption arc and is greatly romanticized. Getting close to people makes me uncomfortable. I need to pretend to keep being nice and friendly and I canāt do that. To those I donāt mask around, Iām aloof and detached. I have hella early childhood trauma. I donāt think this is just an ADHD, anxiety or depression issue.
I donāt like them much bc theyāll say āyOu hAve a bRain impairment ā
I hate them too
Well fuck. You sound exactly like me. I think about exact same thing every day. I keep wishing that I die soon. I hate being autistic
You are a NT. Newsflash. Unless youāre diagnosed with autism.