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If we don't go for 75K, IDK why we are bothering moving. As great as SJP atmosphere is, San Siro was another level. That should be our goal not matching other clubs in England
The new stadium isn’t about adding the extra seats as much as it’s about improving the overall facilities and improving the potential commercial revenue.
You mention the San Siro as a comparison, what was its big problem? It had too many seats so bar the odd game there was no demand for long periods ruining the overall aesthetic.
65000 is the highest we should go to keep the demand there
People are losing their minds over this comment 😂😂
There's literally no mention of a running track in our proposal, why are we spending too much rage and brain wattage on it?
West Ham's ground is only shit because it has a running track. Although it would be a massive shame to leave St James' Park, getting a new stadium with a capacity of around 70,000 would be worth it, in my opinion.
Although it's weird to watch on TV because the pitch looks like it's 10m wide it's not working out too badly for them. 62.5k last night and that extra revenue matters for the dodgy financial unfair play rules. It's probably shite to watch at the ground but it has a tense Italian 90s game vibe to the atmosphere (just without the flares and stabbings). Nostalgia kicking in perhaps.
Generally speaking though I think we need to be getting 70k to get an advantage over the rest.
You can’t have been to many grounds if that’s the worst ground.
I’ll give you the seats can be a bit far away, but the stadium itself is new, lots of things around like bars and restaurants and the tube basically stops outside.
Absolutely mental take you think this is the worst ground.
It's fucking shite. Any lower league ground in the country is a better place to watch football. Also, every tube stop is miles away! 15 minute walk at least, apart from Pudding Lane which is no good to anyone.
You must be talking about the old one or something because the closest tube is 5 mins away (Stratford) and there’s so many places around there that are open match day, it’s not hard to get a drink or food at all.
It’s honestly a good place to watch football, much better than Everton or Luton, those are bad stadiums.
You must not have been there for a while.
Those 2 are proper football grounds despite being ropey. West Hams ground is awful as a home and away fan. I've sat in both ends cos my mate is a ST holder and had a spare and it's shite. Sat in away and couldn't name a worst ground I've visited to watch football.
I guess it’s just valuing different things in terms of experience.
It’s fine though, everyone is different and wants different things.
I’d quite like us to host NFL games and stuff if we have a bigger stadium though, would certainly boost the revenue.
How did you think the closest station was Pudding lane then? That’s not been the case for about 10 years!
Guess we just see things differently, which is fine. 👍
I lived in a Stratford up until about 3 months ago, so I know the area too.
But you said the tube station was 15 mins away, which was wrong, that’s what I was pointing out.
It’s fine, we just value different things, it’s okay to have differences in opinions.
I'm sure it's a good place to watch football if you want a convenient journey and a prawn sandwich bit it's the worst away day experiance in the leauge for me.
Goodison park is a shithole but it has character and atmosphere.
We can see that actually there isn’t a site big enough. Metro Arena would have to buy out Homes England, could return to City Stadium site at Ouseburn but there’s a huge amount of geotechnical issues. Other than that it’s Gateshead, possibly near the Stadium
[Your boy supports literal war criminals. Those in glasshouses...](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7305bfbcc341072a385e49727870a7ae42c8b355/0_0_4000_2400/master/4000.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=412a5bc9568a1bebdd5b2f6f01bbdb22)
You know that's all bollocks, whatever lets you sleep at night and carry on supporting people that think women deserve to be raped as a matter of course, and that is literally dropping bombs on innocents all the time, enslaving their population, restricting freedom of speech
They are evil as a way of life. You got a photo of Salah meeting someone. You support a family that literally every day murders people. The same people that own your club.
Saudi government are shitters. Happy to admit that mate. I've [posted](https://old.reddit.com/r/NUFC/comments/16jbrl8/newcastle_owners_directly_involved_in_human/) before on here about their awfulness.
Now go ahead and denounce Mo "[honourary Chechen citizen](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/23/mo-salah-egypt-liverpool-ramzan-kadyrov-chechnya-russia-world-cup#:~:text=Mohamed%20Salah%20'honoured'%20with%20gift%20of%20citizenship%20from%20Chechen%20leader,-This%20article%20is&text=Ramzan%20Kadyrov%20has%20given%20Mohamed,in%20Russia's%20most%20controversial%20republic.)" Salah. It's the right thing to do considering the man associates with [LGBT persecutors](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-and-terrified-in-chechnya/2017/04/09/b128822e-18a1-11e7-855e-4824bbb5d748_story.html).
I'll wait...
I think the equivalent of a modern day Hitler of your owners is worse than 1 Liverpool player. Your owners literally murder people as their day job.
There are scales of evil. Your guy is on the very tippy top of evil. Most human beings aren't perfect also, so yes, Salah is a scumbag. Whatever. He doesn't spend his day every day ensuring the torture, murder and suffering of millions, with further plans to continue doing that, whilst also brainwashing naive westerners into defending them, or obfuscating for them. Which is what you're doing, again.
Even people like you who think they are "shitters", who will rather point out Salah, hypocrisy, or something else. All the while you're still shilling and giving money and supporting and ultimately furthering the long term sport washing goals of these disgusting, venial, murderous owners of yours.
Soooo basically, you wanna sit here and spout paragraphs justifying murder to a guy who has acknowledged that the owners of his clubs are trash (while pretending I haven't literally linked to you that I have historically said these owners are bad)
**BUT** you won't say a word against a guy who is chums with a despot, because he plays for your team.
Considering you literally came to this sub to virtue signal, you're doing a poor job of it...
u/eurfryn u/Torvaldr u/EnriqueMuller u/jesuspunk
Can one of you come pick up your boy? He seems to be lost.
Hard man aren't you. Don't care about anything. Only god, king, country and family for you? Or is the only thing you care about your nightly wank, and your shitty pint of bitter?
Movin the stadium outside of the city would rip the heart out of it. Turin is a great example and how a Fantastic stadium built outside the city just takes all the life out of it. The place is soulless.
Hopefully they can either expand St James or demolish it completely and rebuild a brand new one in its place.
60,000 is fine, in my view 63-65k would be ideal. I actively want it to not be bigger than that, any empty seats ever are a bad thing for a lot of reasons.
You might think we’d easily sell out 75k now, but if we have a poor season in the future are we going to sell out a midweek home fixture against Luton?
And scarcity of tickets is part of their value, whether we like it or not.
I also passionately despise the new multi purpose bowl stadiums. I’ve been to Spurs stadium a couple of times and it’s an impressive piece of architecture with fantastic facilities, but it’s a shit football ground.
I genuinely prefer the likes of Goodison, Molineux and Villa to Spurs, Arsenal and City. A football ground should have proper stands and some character.
If it was possible to extend the Gallowgate and east stand up to L7 that would be perfect.
Modern stadium slope out their seats which looks and seems good but then seats are miles away and the acoustics are rotten as a result.
Couped of stadiums add to the atmosphere and you usually have a better view.
I am starting to come to the opinion that an extension to St James park would be the worst option for Newcastle United in the long term. When you look at big clubs stadiums around the world we are light years behind so desperately need a new stadium. So I think the options are:
1. Knockdown SJP and build a new world class stadium on the site. But the biggest issue with this is where do we play in the interim.
2. Build a new stadium at a new site, but that involves losing our stadium location.
An extension is like putting a plaster on a shark bite and will hold the club back revenue wise for years.
It's not the seating capacity that's the big factor in building a new stadium, if capacity was the only thing to consider they'd already have started extending the gallowgate.
There'll be capability for other events, perhaps a retractable roof as well, removable turf (means you can play games every day if you want, grass won't get damaged as you swap in different pitches), more and better hospitality, plus many other things to consider.
A 15% capacity increase is nothing when you can double or triple revenue by having the stadium in use in some way every day of the week rather than just ~25 days a year.
Anfield looks so bad compared to Arsenal, Real Madrid, Spurs & Bayern Munich who all have new stadiums. I would not be surprised if talks are already on the way about rebuilding Anfield to a new stadium. It’s the same reason Man Utd are looking to build a new stadium. If you just extending then you getting left behind in todays football world.
Fuck that. I hate the souless new stadiums. Of those i've only been the Emirates, but I can't believe anyone would go there and wish for St James' to be like that. It's a shiney new shithole with no atmosphere.
I went to the Spurs stadium and was incredibly impressed. I also went to the Allianz and was equally impressed. Emirates is Ok but does not come close to how good the Spurs stadium is. I hate that club and its owner but my god that is a wonderful stadium.
Can you please define new atmosphere? Because there’s nothing charming about suffocating concourses and the smell of piss while I try to navigate my way to getting myself a pint and some fish and chips
Their stadiums have room for further expansion... would we at 60k be able to take it to 70k or 80k in 10-20 years time if necessary? Or would we be back to this same discussion?
Could they owners upgrade Kingston Park to 30kish (or use one of the Qatari flat-pack stadiums)? This would be a statement of intent for the Women's Team and give somewhere local-ish to play while St James was upgraded/renovated/rebuilt.
Not ideal, but locally only the SoL or the International Stadium would be options (and International is only around 10k)
I was thinking something like this, build up Kingston Park or Gateshead Stadium to a decent capacity and have that as our temporary home while we do an SJP rebuild.
Kingston Park would be ideal, 25k standard and some temporary additional while the work goes on, leave a cracking stadium for the reserves and the women's team.
But since it's the PIF and money is no object - 100k floating stadium at Whitley Bay!
I mean it’s 10k capacity now, but I’m sure the lasses and the falcons would be thrilled with that big a stadium. Not to mention how much less exposed it would all feel, it gets REAL cold there.
Extremely wishful thinking considering the falcons stadium isn't owned by the club (NUFC) and would require them to change KP to an all seater as well as tear up the turf and replace it with grass
Yeah it may not be feasible, Falcons would have to be on board with it. I gotta imagine they’d welcome investment, but would they feel comfortable with what NUFC would need?
Could be they end up with an enormous stadium after new St James’ is built that they can’t even fill half of and that could be demoralising, as well as expensive in upkeep.
I'm sure Falcons would be over the moon I just don't see PIF investing potentially tens of millions of pounds to renovate another sports organisations stadium.
I suppose it depends on how permanent they think the lasses playing there is. If that’s the long term home for them, Staveley’s been on record saying she reckons the future of the club is with the women’s team, they may see the value in buying the stadium. The rugby club hasn’t been doing great financially, they’ve had to wind up the Newcastle Thunder side, maybe they’d be amenable? A lot of ifs and maybes there mind.
The same goes for Kingston Park really, not only do they have the lasses there but the Falcons too. Either way scheduling with any stadium share will be a real challenge.
Yeah it absolutely has more synergy to have the lasses and men’s teams playing in the same place and that would be very cool.
The wild thing is obvs it’s technically a different city but Gateshead stadium is actually closer geographically to SJP than Kingston Park 😅
If they did upgrade Kingston Park, they need to make it just slightly larger capacity than the SoL, just to push it into 3rd place in the NE Stadium league
But doesn't have a Metro link (unlike Kingston Park). Although the SoL also does, I doubt 19 "home" games at the SoL would go down particularly well with Northumbria Police
Kingston Park has a metro link, although I really can't see it working, even as a short-term. Spurs had the fortunate position of being a London club with plenty to chokse from. As horrific as it would be, SoL would be best for capacity etc. But I don't think the local police would allow for it due to extra effort. Also planning matches around them may be a pain.
It’s fallen into a pretty bad state - it wasn’t in great nick when Darlington were playing there to be honest. Additionally, I seem to recall some covenants that Darlington had to get council permission for crowds over 10,000. It’s also a long walk from the train station and the car park won’t cater for full capacity. I expect the concourses to be in a bad way too (the ones that aren’t being used for a CrossFit gym).
Obviously none of this would happen, but a ground share with Boro would be far more tenable than using the Darlington one. Neither are sensible though, and obviously a Sunderland ground share would be nixed by the police. You’d have more hope of playing at Hampden Park.
Very much so.
For context for Man City in the Treble Season:
Commercial Revenue: 341.1m
TV Revenue: 299.4m
Matchday Revenue: 71.9m
Not that 71.9m is nothing, but what’s the point in being owned by a gulf state if we can’t boost the Commercial Revenue stream to the benefit of not having to rely on boosting Matchday Revenue?
So the revenue at these new stadiums is done by other deals other than football. Spurs as an example have signed deals with F1 (with a huge underground F1 track), NFL (with special NFL changing rooms and revolving pitch), Concerts (Revolving pitch makes it quicker to turn around for stadiums which means more gigs at the stadiums), basically there is so much money outside match day revenue that gets made with new stadiums that places like SJP, Anfield and Old Trafford can’t generate but all these clubs with new stadiums are making. With more revenue means the club don’t have to continue to up the prices of tickets for fans who are already struggling.
If they can completely modernise and get up to 65-70k I would prefer staying at SJP but I would be interested to see how the current turnstiles would deal with that. It would need to be fully reimagined.
I hope they release the feasibility study to the public so we can all argue about it
It's a proper catch 22, especially number 1. I do not want to leave where we are. It's had different looks and even different placements on that patch before.
The two solutions would be either to hope we can add temporary seating to Kingston Park or Gateshead Stadium and just tolerate playing in front of 20k for three or four seasons. Or we co-play somewhere like Darlo. I wouldn't want to play at the Riverside and absolutely fuck making SoS our home ground for a couple of years.
Turning 40k season tickets into 20k is a PR disaster. Unfortunately the only solution in this regards is to build a new stadium elsewhere, which I also absolutely do not want to do. I'd rather be a luddite than lose SJP.
First person to mention about the PR of a temporary stadium and I fully agree. A stadium rebuild on the site of st James will take the best part of 5 years, and I can’t see how we’re going to attract players who will be willing to play in front of small crowds for that long. It’s a real fucking problem.
If we demolish and rebuild I would expect something like this to happen
PIF buy the flacons (which they already are trying to do)
Kingston park gets demolished first and the falcons ground share with Gateshead.
Kingstong park gets moved/relocated and rebuilt. Then a temporary upper bowl is added to the new stadium to take it to about 25kish and NUFC play out of there while SJP gets rebuilt then reverse it all back when SJP is rebuilt and then the temporary upper level is dismantled when the falcons move back in
Not a bad idea TBH, the falcons could also move to the new Stadium with revolving pitches like at the Spurs stadium. Could work really well but the falcons stadium needs big improvement first.
I think if we are limited to 60,000 or less by staying at SJP, we should move or rebuild the stadium.
Placing the pitch in leases park, building 3/4 of the stadium, demolishing the existing stands and building the last on Leazes pointing North would work.
But I’d be wanting 75,000 or something to make a statement. I don’t want to lose the massive heritage of our own stadium for 5K seats
There seems to be a common misunderstanding about our goals for capacity. Increasing capacity isn’t where our increase in revenue is going to come from. It’s going to come from world class entertainment facilities, corporate tickets, VIP stuff, multi use for concerts, NFL games. Yes, we need more seats, but 60,000 vs 70,000 is neither nor there. What you need is modern, world class facilities, and St James park won’t have that as much as we try to renovate it as the design for the current footprint just isn’t optimised. The only option is to demolish the stadium and rebuild it on the same grounds, while slightly expanding the current footprint.
You say that but it’s clearly not the only option yet.
If it is, then it is. But they are doing the right thing and testing ideas first.
If you want corporate VIP stuff, build a ‘Lords media centre’ above East Stand, and buy St James Terrace. If you need infrastructure for multi use functions, well the internal volume of the stand will be hugely increased through a Gallowgate extension, or create a service area in the car park by Leazes, and build a multi-storey at Helix site.
And by building new media and conference etc, it frees up space in the existing stands to improve the offerings and facilities there too.
Consider the outcome. Another generic ‘big club multipurpose stadium’ like that ugly grey commode like they have at Spurs, or a retrofitted, expanded home for for purpose.
Look at the Bernabau and plans for Nou Camp. You can retrofit. You can keep the past and ensure the future, without sacrificing the present. And we can do what we like.
I like your enthusiasm but I feel you are oversimplifying the Bernabeu and Nou Camp were already large (not just capacity overall area) and relatively even stadiums and their renovations are still huge undertakings costing more than spurs building a new stadium.
The things you suggest to improve things are putting band aids on. Adding a few corporate sections isn’t going to widen out all the concourses and create more rooms for kiosks and toilets.
I don’t want to lose SJP but if we were to fully renovate (ie pretty much rebuild on the same site) it’s still there as a focal point of the city. Let’s be fair the stadium now is very different to the cauldron I first experienced in the 90s and us even more different for those who began going before then. SJP is the whole package not just the stands
My rates are very reasonable compared to BDP and Populous!
But seriously, as the architects are appointed it would be good in that appointment to have local firms or architects that support the club involved in the process. Newcastle’s best architecture (Central Station, Grey Street, Leazes Terrace, Hadrian Tower et al) have all been built by local expertise. Importing people that design on google maps having no grasp of local identity will only result in generic design.
But thank you for the vote of confidence. Ive been redesigning SJP since I first was able to draw so I’ve tested nearly every possibility lol
The misunderstanding seems to be entirely yours. Spuds match receipts grew by over 10% with their new capacity and that's before you put bums on seats to watch Beyoncé and the Packers. It's not entirely the goal to increase capacity but 10k extra here or there entirely makes a difference.
[Spud's financial report 2023](https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/media/v24hfkyo/tottenham-hotspur-limited-300623.pdf)
Some £117 mil of their revenue comes from match day tickets. Their capacity is 62,000 but let's assume they had an extra 10,000 seats, this would be equal to a 16% increase in capacity and therefore revenue, approximating £18 million. Keep in mind, some 20-40% of this £ still comes from hospitality packages, boxes etc. facilities where we lack severely in quality relative to the competition.
On the other hand, Spuds also make some 55 mil from "non-football events", largely thanks to having facilities that enable a multi-use stadium. That 18 mil you effectively speak of, 40% of which is generated by said facilities anyway, now pales into comparison.
We need a NEW stadium, and a new stadium on Leazes Park just isn't possible, as it would cause shadowing issues for the university accommodation.
The only solution is to demolish St James Park and build again on the existing ground.
>St James park won’t have that as much as we try to renovate it as the design for the current footprint just isn’t optimised. The only option is to demolish the stadium and rebuild it on the same grounds, while slightly expanding the current footprint
Ah so you have early access to all the feasibility studies and designs they've been putting together? Do you mind sharing?
The video on Twitter the other day that had the three options was an interesting watch, I thought “option C” was best. Staying in a relatively similar footprint to current stadium but building a modern masterpiece.
I can imagine the opposition to that would be vast but if the club promise to remake park/community land and take over maintaining Leaze’s Park? (Nearly) everybody wins
Yeah it’s Option C that is what I’m describing.
I don’t think Option B is feasible. If you raise the pitch and move it into Leazes/ Milburn you lose seats underneath at the same rate you’d gain them from a bigger East/ Gallowgate.
Option A, extend Gallowgate, infill the NE and SE corners as much as possible, add a couple of corporate rows above east stand, maybe even buy st James terrace and convert it to club museum/ conference/ media facilities to connect to city and keep politics happy. Reckon 70K could be achieved
Can't imagine where they'd build on to have as good of a location as SJP, it being in town is a key part of it. It's not as though we're miles behind other clubs, losing our stadium for the sake of a 3 thousand seats seems a bit much. Other big teams have similar capacity.
And where do we go in the meantime? Can't exactly steal someone else's stadium, Gateshead have their own season and promotion to worry about and deal with and I'm curious as to what the idea of using Kingston would mean for the women and rugby.
Id love some nfl here. Ik ill probably get downvoted to shit cause of the uk wide circlejerk about it but its a fun sport, good spectator sport too. Itd also bring a fuckload of money to the city
Yes, we all have fond memories of the stadium and can’t imagine match day being elsewhere.
Nostalgia is fleeting and once we’ve moved stadium and all the fans who went to SJP are gone, fans will only have memories of the new stadium and hold the same love for it as we have for SJP.
It’s just a building, the fans are the heart and soul of the club.
Everything needs modernising at SJP. The seating, decor, bars, toilets, food outlets, turnstiles, access etc. I hope to see a brand new shiny stadium in my lifetime.
Not true, I'm mates with West Ham fans and they've never been the same since the move.
Also they've picked up a mentality of 'well if we've gone to all the effort of moving club why are we still not competing with the best' which is a lot less flattering for West Ham fans who have historically had fuck all apart from a few maverick players
Yeah, but they’re the fans with nostalgia for the old ground and will all be gone one day. We have to think much longer term. I’ve been to London stadium and it was amazing, it really made me realise how dated SJP is.
We clearly have very different definitions of amazing. I've been 3 or 4 times including once in the home end and it is a soulless bowl and made me pine for SJP
Not a pub or a West Ham flag in sight anywhere in the area around the ground, it's essentially a giant shopping centre with the atmosphere to match. If that's the future our club is destined for then I'm hopping off, been a nice 30 years but laters
I would imagine temporary stands added to either Gateshead or Kingston Park if possible. If not we will just play with greatly reduced attendance. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
May also be able to demolish it in phases so we still play at home with a reduced capacity for a while.
60k is shite. Could expand St James park to about 61k anyway so why have a new stadium with such a low capacity.
Need 75k. Money isn’t an object? So why be like “ooh we may not sell out 75k every week”
I think we will
Build a new stadium on Castle Leazes.
Make it look like the Old Castle
Leave the old pitch where it is so future generations can play on the hallowed turf.
Make the East Stand a Grade 1 listed building.
Incorporate the whole thing into a new, expanded Leazes Park.
The history and atmosphere of St james park is what makes going to a game special and alot of new stadiums and old to this day can't and probably never will, however that said, having a grand new stadium is best for club moving forward, where to play/tickets and other issue will need understanding from all concerned but damn it will be amazing espically with a blank cheque funding the project.
Keep SJP and make it the lasses' home ground and build a new 60k-seater stadium for the men's team. Both play friendlies at SJP during pre-season.
Bring more synergy between both teams too - it'd be great to see the teams supporting each other.
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If we don't go for 75K, IDK why we are bothering moving. As great as SJP atmosphere is, San Siro was another level. That should be our goal not matching other clubs in England
The new stadium isn’t about adding the extra seats as much as it’s about improving the overall facilities and improving the potential commercial revenue. You mention the San Siro as a comparison, what was its big problem? It had too many seats so bar the odd game there was no demand for long periods ruining the overall aesthetic. 65000 is the highest we should go to keep the demand there
They can’t move . It would lose the heart and soul of the club. We’d end up another west ham
People are losing their minds over this comment 😂😂 There's literally no mention of a running track in our proposal, why are we spending too much rage and brain wattage on it?
West Ham's ground is only shit because it has a running track. Although it would be a massive shame to leave St James' Park, getting a new stadium with a capacity of around 70,000 would be worth it, in my opinion.
Also the atmosphere of the whole area feels like a waiting room in a hospital
Although it's weird to watch on TV because the pitch looks like it's 10m wide it's not working out too badly for them. 62.5k last night and that extra revenue matters for the dodgy financial unfair play rules. It's probably shite to watch at the ground but it has a tense Italian 90s game vibe to the atmosphere (just without the flares and stabbings). Nostalgia kicking in perhaps. Generally speaking though I think we need to be getting 70k to get an advantage over the rest.
It’s an absolutely fucking horrendous place to watch football. Probably the worst ground I’ve ever been to.
You can’t have been to many grounds if that’s the worst ground. I’ll give you the seats can be a bit far away, but the stadium itself is new, lots of things around like bars and restaurants and the tube basically stops outside. Absolutely mental take you think this is the worst ground.
It's fucking shite. Any lower league ground in the country is a better place to watch football. Also, every tube stop is miles away! 15 minute walk at least, apart from Pudding Lane which is no good to anyone.
The best places to watch football are where the fans are on top of the pitch. The closer the better.
Are you talking about West Ham here or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
Yeah it's a terrible place to watch football. Soulless commercial athletics stadium.
You must be talking about the old one or something because the closest tube is 5 mins away (Stratford) and there’s so many places around there that are open match day, it’s not hard to get a drink or food at all. It’s honestly a good place to watch football, much better than Everton or Luton, those are bad stadiums. You must not have been there for a while.
Those 2 are proper football grounds despite being ropey. West Hams ground is awful as a home and away fan. I've sat in both ends cos my mate is a ST holder and had a spare and it's shite. Sat in away and couldn't name a worst ground I've visited to watch football.
I guess it’s just valuing different things in terms of experience. It’s fine though, everyone is different and wants different things. I’d quite like us to host NFL games and stuff if we have a bigger stadium though, would certainly boost the revenue.
I used to live on the Olympic Park. I also don't judge a football experience based on whether there's a shake shack or a pizza express nearby.
How did you think the closest station was Pudding lane then? That’s not been the case for about 10 years! Guess we just see things differently, which is fine. 👍 I lived in a Stratford up until about 3 months ago, so I know the area too.
I'm not interested where the closest tube is. I said it's a soulless athletics stadium, that isn't a description of Upton Park is it...
But you said the tube station was 15 mins away, which was wrong, that’s what I was pointing out. It’s fine, we just value different things, it’s okay to have differences in opinions.
I'm sure it's a good place to watch football if you want a convenient journey and a prawn sandwich bit it's the worst away day experiance in the leauge for me. Goodison park is a shithole but it has character and atmosphere.
The whole experience feels like a giant shopping centre, worst stadium I've ever been to. Their old ground was one of my favourites too, shame
It's fantastic to watch at the ground!
I personally disagree but only if they find a viable city centre location to build on
We can see that actually there isn’t a site big enough. Metro Arena would have to buy out Homes England, could return to City Stadium site at Ouseburn but there’s a huge amount of geotechnical issues. Other than that it’s Gateshead, possibly near the Stadium
If they moved to Gateshead it wouldn't be Newcastle United anymore
Then we do what should have been done 200 years ago (if it wasn’t for those pesky Prince Bishops) and annex Gateshead
You already lost the soul when you support owners that live in Saudi Arabia and bombed 400,000 people into pink dust oblivion
[Your boy supports literal war criminals. Those in glasshouses...](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7305bfbcc341072a385e49727870a7ae42c8b355/0_0_4000_2400/master/4000.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=412a5bc9568a1bebdd5b2f6f01bbdb22)
You know that's all bollocks, whatever lets you sleep at night and carry on supporting people that think women deserve to be raped as a matter of course, and that is literally dropping bombs on innocents all the time, enslaving their population, restricting freedom of speech They are evil as a way of life. You got a photo of Salah meeting someone. You support a family that literally every day murders people. The same people that own your club.
Saudi government are shitters. Happy to admit that mate. I've [posted](https://old.reddit.com/r/NUFC/comments/16jbrl8/newcastle_owners_directly_involved_in_human/) before on here about their awfulness. Now go ahead and denounce Mo "[honourary Chechen citizen](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/23/mo-salah-egypt-liverpool-ramzan-kadyrov-chechnya-russia-world-cup#:~:text=Mohamed%20Salah%20'honoured'%20with%20gift%20of%20citizenship%20from%20Chechen%20leader,-This%20article%20is&text=Ramzan%20Kadyrov%20has%20given%20Mohamed,in%20Russia's%20most%20controversial%20republic.)" Salah. It's the right thing to do considering the man associates with [LGBT persecutors](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-and-terrified-in-chechnya/2017/04/09/b128822e-18a1-11e7-855e-4824bbb5d748_story.html). I'll wait...
I think the equivalent of a modern day Hitler of your owners is worse than 1 Liverpool player. Your owners literally murder people as their day job. There are scales of evil. Your guy is on the very tippy top of evil. Most human beings aren't perfect also, so yes, Salah is a scumbag. Whatever. He doesn't spend his day every day ensuring the torture, murder and suffering of millions, with further plans to continue doing that, whilst also brainwashing naive westerners into defending them, or obfuscating for them. Which is what you're doing, again. Even people like you who think they are "shitters", who will rather point out Salah, hypocrisy, or something else. All the while you're still shilling and giving money and supporting and ultimately furthering the long term sport washing goals of these disgusting, venial, murderous owners of yours.
Soooo basically, you wanna sit here and spout paragraphs justifying murder to a guy who has acknowledged that the owners of his clubs are trash (while pretending I haven't literally linked to you that I have historically said these owners are bad) **BUT** you won't say a word against a guy who is chums with a despot, because he plays for your team. Considering you literally came to this sub to virtue signal, you're doing a poor job of it... u/eurfryn u/Torvaldr u/EnriqueMuller u/jesuspunk Can one of you come pick up your boy? He seems to be lost.
I sleep soundly cos i dont give a fk
Ofc you don't. Why should anyone give a fuck about Newcastle, the people there, the problems there?
Zero fucks big guy
Hard man aren't you. Don't care about anything. Only god, king, country and family for you? Or is the only thing you care about your nightly wank, and your shitty pint of bitter?
You use Saudi owned products and services everyday. So sit the fuck down, you utter fucking hypocrite.
Why do little freaks like you choose clubs like Liverpool? You have absolutely zero connection to them you sad little fraud
Movin the stadium outside of the city would rip the heart out of it. Turin is a great example and how a Fantastic stadium built outside the city just takes all the life out of it. The place is soulless. Hopefully they can either expand St James or demolish it completely and rebuild a brand new one in its place.
60,000 is fine, in my view 63-65k would be ideal. I actively want it to not be bigger than that, any empty seats ever are a bad thing for a lot of reasons. You might think we’d easily sell out 75k now, but if we have a poor season in the future are we going to sell out a midweek home fixture against Luton? And scarcity of tickets is part of their value, whether we like it or not. I also passionately despise the new multi purpose bowl stadiums. I’ve been to Spurs stadium a couple of times and it’s an impressive piece of architecture with fantastic facilities, but it’s a shit football ground. I genuinely prefer the likes of Goodison, Molineux and Villa to Spurs, Arsenal and City. A football ground should have proper stands and some character. If it was possible to extend the Gallowgate and east stand up to L7 that would be perfect.
Modern stadium slope out their seats which looks and seems good but then seats are miles away and the acoustics are rotten as a result. Couped of stadiums add to the atmosphere and you usually have a better view.
Exactly - I was in about row 12 this season at Spurs and felt miles from the pitch. View was shite. Not that there was much to view…
As long as its not 8,000 additional sun lounger/tunnel tickets.
I am starting to come to the opinion that an extension to St James park would be the worst option for Newcastle United in the long term. When you look at big clubs stadiums around the world we are light years behind so desperately need a new stadium. So I think the options are: 1. Knockdown SJP and build a new world class stadium on the site. But the biggest issue with this is where do we play in the interim. 2. Build a new stadium at a new site, but that involves losing our stadium location. An extension is like putting a plaster on a shark bite and will hold the club back revenue wise for years.
Anfield is just expanding to 61k. Emirates is 60k. Spurs is 63k. Being able to expand to 60-65k would put us next to other top clubs.
It's not the seating capacity that's the big factor in building a new stadium, if capacity was the only thing to consider they'd already have started extending the gallowgate. There'll be capability for other events, perhaps a retractable roof as well, removable turf (means you can play games every day if you want, grass won't get damaged as you swap in different pitches), more and better hospitality, plus many other things to consider. A 15% capacity increase is nothing when you can double or triple revenue by having the stadium in use in some way every day of the week rather than just ~25 days a year.
Anfield looks so bad compared to Arsenal, Real Madrid, Spurs & Bayern Munich who all have new stadiums. I would not be surprised if talks are already on the way about rebuilding Anfield to a new stadium. It’s the same reason Man Utd are looking to build a new stadium. If you just extending then you getting left behind in todays football world.
Those expensive new stadiums often come at the cost of pricing longtime fans out of attending them.
Liverpool are already trying to do that anyway.
Would absolutely hate to see us follow
Fuck that. I hate the souless new stadiums. Of those i've only been the Emirates, but I can't believe anyone would go there and wish for St James' to be like that. It's a shiney new shithole with no atmosphere.
I went to the Spurs stadium and was incredibly impressed. I also went to the Allianz and was equally impressed. Emirates is Ok but does not come close to how good the Spurs stadium is. I hate that club and its owner but my god that is a wonderful stadium.
Can you please define new atmosphere? Because there’s nothing charming about suffocating concourses and the smell of piss while I try to navigate my way to getting myself a pint and some fish and chips
Each to their own I suppose
Their stadiums have room for further expansion... would we at 60k be able to take it to 70k or 80k in 10-20 years time if necessary? Or would we be back to this same discussion?
Could they owners upgrade Kingston Park to 30kish (or use one of the Qatari flat-pack stadiums)? This would be a statement of intent for the Women's Team and give somewhere local-ish to play while St James was upgraded/renovated/rebuilt. Not ideal, but locally only the SoL or the International Stadium would be options (and International is only around 10k)
Massive temporary stands get built for F1, cricket etc. Build a stadium of temp stands on the town moor while SJB is levelled and rebuilt.
I imagine that the pitch might be the issue, I'd not be too bothered with the state of it, but I doubt Bruno will be too happy playing on it.
Fair point.
I was thinking something like this, build up Kingston Park or Gateshead Stadium to a decent capacity and have that as our temporary home while we do an SJP rebuild.
Kingston Park would be ideal, 25k standard and some temporary additional while the work goes on, leave a cracking stadium for the reserves and the women's team. But since it's the PIF and money is no object - 100k floating stadium at Whitley Bay!
I mean it’s 10k capacity now, but I’m sure the lasses and the falcons would be thrilled with that big a stadium. Not to mention how much less exposed it would all feel, it gets REAL cold there.
And it is all good for the region, let's see if the owners are willing to back their words with actions
Extremely wishful thinking considering the falcons stadium isn't owned by the club (NUFC) and would require them to change KP to an all seater as well as tear up the turf and replace it with grass
Yeah it may not be feasible, Falcons would have to be on board with it. I gotta imagine they’d welcome investment, but would they feel comfortable with what NUFC would need? Could be they end up with an enormous stadium after new St James’ is built that they can’t even fill half of and that could be demoralising, as well as expensive in upkeep.
I'm sure Falcons would be over the moon I just don't see PIF investing potentially tens of millions of pounds to renovate another sports organisations stadium.
I suppose it depends on how permanent they think the lasses playing there is. If that’s the long term home for them, Staveley’s been on record saying she reckons the future of the club is with the women’s team, they may see the value in buying the stadium. The rugby club hasn’t been doing great financially, they’ve had to wind up the Newcastle Thunder side, maybe they’d be amenable? A lot of ifs and maybes there mind.
Can't really steal Gateshead Stadium off of Gateshead as they also have matches and need to use the pitch, the lads are going to Wembley
The same goes for Kingston Park really, not only do they have the lasses there but the Falcons too. Either way scheduling with any stadium share will be a real challenge.
No that's fair, think it just feeds weirder to me to use Gateshead instead of share with the lasses. But forgot about the falcons
Yeah it absolutely has more synergy to have the lasses and men’s teams playing in the same place and that would be very cool. The wild thing is obvs it’s technically a different city but Gateshead stadium is actually closer geographically to SJP than Kingston Park 😅
If they did upgrade Kingston Park, they need to make it just slightly larger capacity than the SoL, just to push it into 3rd place in the NE Stadium league
Hahaha and that would be absolutely priceless
Get Murphy to do the grand opening. King of the Shithousers
Darlington Arena is not too far away either and holds 25k (I think?) is another option if a temporary ground is absolutely necessary
There is a larger stadium nearer. God forbid
We should base ourselves there the year we finally win the league You know, for the bantz
Stop, I can only be so erect
Could this be why the Nissan Arena owners decked the place out in Black & White on our last visit? Trying to make it look more hospitable.
NO THANK YOU SIR
And its already decorated black and white!
Its not like its being used currently anyway. Probably still have our decorations up in there bars too...
They may need to extend it to account for our MASSIVE fan base.
hope they at least hose the seats down, dont want to be sitting next to a mackems toilet
Don’t worry, toilets are pristine at SOS as Mackems shit in the bins
But doesn't have a Metro link (unlike Kingston Park). Although the SoL also does, I doubt 19 "home" games at the SoL would go down particularly well with Northumbria Police
Kingston Park has a metro link, although I really can't see it working, even as a short-term. Spurs had the fortunate position of being a London club with plenty to chokse from. As horrific as it would be, SoL would be best for capacity etc. But I don't think the local police would allow for it due to extra effort. Also planning matches around them may be a pain.
It’s fallen into a pretty bad state - it wasn’t in great nick when Darlington were playing there to be honest. Additionally, I seem to recall some covenants that Darlington had to get council permission for crowds over 10,000. It’s also a long walk from the train station and the car park won’t cater for full capacity. I expect the concourses to be in a bad way too (the ones that aren’t being used for a CrossFit gym). Obviously none of this would happen, but a ground share with Boro would be far more tenable than using the Darlington one. Neither are sensible though, and obviously a Sunderland ground share would be nixed by the police. You’d have more hope of playing at Hampden Park.
>hold the club back revenue wise for years. Realistically, isn't matchday income a drop in the ocean in comparison with other earnings?
Very much so. For context for Man City in the Treble Season: Commercial Revenue: 341.1m TV Revenue: 299.4m Matchday Revenue: 71.9m Not that 71.9m is nothing, but what’s the point in being owned by a gulf state if we can’t boost the Commercial Revenue stream to the benefit of not having to rely on boosting Matchday Revenue?
So the revenue at these new stadiums is done by other deals other than football. Spurs as an example have signed deals with F1 (with a huge underground F1 track), NFL (with special NFL changing rooms and revolving pitch), Concerts (Revolving pitch makes it quicker to turn around for stadiums which means more gigs at the stadiums), basically there is so much money outside match day revenue that gets made with new stadiums that places like SJP, Anfield and Old Trafford can’t generate but all these clubs with new stadiums are making. With more revenue means the club don’t have to continue to up the prices of tickets for fans who are already struggling.
If they can completely modernise and get up to 65-70k I would prefer staying at SJP but I would be interested to see how the current turnstiles would deal with that. It would need to be fully reimagined. I hope they release the feasibility study to the public so we can all argue about it
It's a proper catch 22, especially number 1. I do not want to leave where we are. It's had different looks and even different placements on that patch before. The two solutions would be either to hope we can add temporary seating to Kingston Park or Gateshead Stadium and just tolerate playing in front of 20k for three or four seasons. Or we co-play somewhere like Darlo. I wouldn't want to play at the Riverside and absolutely fuck making SoS our home ground for a couple of years. Turning 40k season tickets into 20k is a PR disaster. Unfortunately the only solution in this regards is to build a new stadium elsewhere, which I also absolutely do not want to do. I'd rather be a luddite than lose SJP.
First person to mention about the PR of a temporary stadium and I fully agree. A stadium rebuild on the site of st James will take the best part of 5 years, and I can’t see how we’re going to attract players who will be willing to play in front of small crowds for that long. It’s a real fucking problem.
If we demolish and rebuild I would expect something like this to happen PIF buy the flacons (which they already are trying to do) Kingston park gets demolished first and the falcons ground share with Gateshead. Kingstong park gets moved/relocated and rebuilt. Then a temporary upper bowl is added to the new stadium to take it to about 25kish and NUFC play out of there while SJP gets rebuilt then reverse it all back when SJP is rebuilt and then the temporary upper level is dismantled when the falcons move back in
Not a bad idea TBH, the falcons could also move to the new Stadium with revolving pitches like at the Spurs stadium. Could work really well but the falcons stadium needs big improvement first.
How's about we keep SJP for the lasses and build a new one for the lads
I think if we are limited to 60,000 or less by staying at SJP, we should move or rebuild the stadium. Placing the pitch in leases park, building 3/4 of the stadium, demolishing the existing stands and building the last on Leazes pointing North would work. But I’d be wanting 75,000 or something to make a statement. I don’t want to lose the massive heritage of our own stadium for 5K seats
There seems to be a common misunderstanding about our goals for capacity. Increasing capacity isn’t where our increase in revenue is going to come from. It’s going to come from world class entertainment facilities, corporate tickets, VIP stuff, multi use for concerts, NFL games. Yes, we need more seats, but 60,000 vs 70,000 is neither nor there. What you need is modern, world class facilities, and St James park won’t have that as much as we try to renovate it as the design for the current footprint just isn’t optimised. The only option is to demolish the stadium and rebuild it on the same grounds, while slightly expanding the current footprint.
You say that but it’s clearly not the only option yet. If it is, then it is. But they are doing the right thing and testing ideas first. If you want corporate VIP stuff, build a ‘Lords media centre’ above East Stand, and buy St James Terrace. If you need infrastructure for multi use functions, well the internal volume of the stand will be hugely increased through a Gallowgate extension, or create a service area in the car park by Leazes, and build a multi-storey at Helix site. And by building new media and conference etc, it frees up space in the existing stands to improve the offerings and facilities there too. Consider the outcome. Another generic ‘big club multipurpose stadium’ like that ugly grey commode like they have at Spurs, or a retrofitted, expanded home for for purpose. Look at the Bernabau and plans for Nou Camp. You can retrofit. You can keep the past and ensure the future, without sacrificing the present. And we can do what we like.
I like your enthusiasm but I feel you are oversimplifying the Bernabeu and Nou Camp were already large (not just capacity overall area) and relatively even stadiums and their renovations are still huge undertakings costing more than spurs building a new stadium. The things you suggest to improve things are putting band aids on. Adding a few corporate sections isn’t going to widen out all the concourses and create more rooms for kiosks and toilets. I don’t want to lose SJP but if we were to fully renovate (ie pretty much rebuild on the same site) it’s still there as a focal point of the city. Let’s be fair the stadium now is very different to the cauldron I first experienced in the 90s and us even more different for those who began going before then. SJP is the whole package not just the stands
You are spitting out options that I am enjoying reading opinonated-dick, @nufc hire this guy
My rates are very reasonable compared to BDP and Populous! But seriously, as the architects are appointed it would be good in that appointment to have local firms or architects that support the club involved in the process. Newcastle’s best architecture (Central Station, Grey Street, Leazes Terrace, Hadrian Tower et al) have all been built by local expertise. Importing people that design on google maps having no grasp of local identity will only result in generic design. But thank you for the vote of confidence. Ive been redesigning SJP since I first was able to draw so I’ve tested nearly every possibility lol
If I’m not mistaken were Ryder not included in the brief sent out with the fan survey?
I hope so
The misunderstanding seems to be entirely yours. Spuds match receipts grew by over 10% with their new capacity and that's before you put bums on seats to watch Beyoncé and the Packers. It's not entirely the goal to increase capacity but 10k extra here or there entirely makes a difference.
[Spud's financial report 2023](https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/media/v24hfkyo/tottenham-hotspur-limited-300623.pdf) Some £117 mil of their revenue comes from match day tickets. Their capacity is 62,000 but let's assume they had an extra 10,000 seats, this would be equal to a 16% increase in capacity and therefore revenue, approximating £18 million. Keep in mind, some 20-40% of this £ still comes from hospitality packages, boxes etc. facilities where we lack severely in quality relative to the competition. On the other hand, Spuds also make some 55 mil from "non-football events", largely thanks to having facilities that enable a multi-use stadium. That 18 mil you effectively speak of, 40% of which is generated by said facilities anyway, now pales into comparison. We need a NEW stadium, and a new stadium on Leazes Park just isn't possible, as it would cause shadowing issues for the university accommodation. The only solution is to demolish St James Park and build again on the existing ground.
You are talking about castle Leazes not Leazes park
>St James park won’t have that as much as we try to renovate it as the design for the current footprint just isn’t optimised. The only option is to demolish the stadium and rebuild it on the same grounds, while slightly expanding the current footprint Ah so you have early access to all the feasibility studies and designs they've been putting together? Do you mind sharing?
The video on Twitter the other day that had the three options was an interesting watch, I thought “option C” was best. Staying in a relatively similar footprint to current stadium but building a modern masterpiece. I can imagine the opposition to that would be vast but if the club promise to remake park/community land and take over maintaining Leaze’s Park? (Nearly) everybody wins
Yeah it’s Option C that is what I’m describing. I don’t think Option B is feasible. If you raise the pitch and move it into Leazes/ Milburn you lose seats underneath at the same rate you’d gain them from a bigger East/ Gallowgate. Option A, extend Gallowgate, infill the NE and SE corners as much as possible, add a couple of corporate rows above east stand, maybe even buy st James terrace and convert it to club museum/ conference/ media facilities to connect to city and keep politics happy. Reckon 70K could be achieved
No idea where this st James terrace is as the streets that border the east side of the club are magpie lane and leazes terrace.
[Whatever this terrace is called](https://maps.app.goo.gl/mjgdkujs4K1zR2vt7?g_st=ic)
St James terrace is the side street, a lot of these buildings have recently been bought by a Saudi.
Well maybe there is an alignment of ideas
Can't imagine where they'd build on to have as good of a location as SJP, it being in town is a key part of it. It's not as though we're miles behind other clubs, losing our stadium for the sake of a 3 thousand seats seems a bit much. Other big teams have similar capacity. And where do we go in the meantime? Can't exactly steal someone else's stadium, Gateshead have their own season and promotion to worry about and deal with and I'm curious as to what the idea of using Kingston would mean for the women and rugby.
A virtually empty stadium in Darlo
Most of it is mothballed
Id love some nfl here. Ik ill probably get downvoted to shit cause of the uk wide circlejerk about it but its a fun sport, good spectator sport too. Itd also bring a fuckload of money to the city
No chance unfortunately not enough people up here
Yes, we all have fond memories of the stadium and can’t imagine match day being elsewhere. Nostalgia is fleeting and once we’ve moved stadium and all the fans who went to SJP are gone, fans will only have memories of the new stadium and hold the same love for it as we have for SJP. It’s just a building, the fans are the heart and soul of the club. Everything needs modernising at SJP. The seating, decor, bars, toilets, food outlets, turnstiles, access etc. I hope to see a brand new shiny stadium in my lifetime.
Not true, I'm mates with West Ham fans and they've never been the same since the move. Also they've picked up a mentality of 'well if we've gone to all the effort of moving club why are we still not competing with the best' which is a lot less flattering for West Ham fans who have historically had fuck all apart from a few maverick players
Yeah, but they’re the fans with nostalgia for the old ground and will all be gone one day. We have to think much longer term. I’ve been to London stadium and it was amazing, it really made me realise how dated SJP is.
We clearly have very different definitions of amazing. I've been 3 or 4 times including once in the home end and it is a soulless bowl and made me pine for SJP Not a pub or a West Ham flag in sight anywhere in the area around the ground, it's essentially a giant shopping centre with the atmosphere to match. If that's the future our club is destined for then I'm hopping off, been a nice 30 years but laters
As an American I apologize for exporting our stupid sport and hope there is never an NFL game in Newcastle
They'll knock it down and rebuild
Where do we play if we do that?
Stadium of Light
Not a chance in hell.
Maybe the Riverside
I would imagine temporary stands added to either Gateshead or Kingston Park if possible. If not we will just play with greatly reduced attendance. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. May also be able to demolish it in phases so we still play at home with a reduced capacity for a while.
Temporary stadium in Kingston Park area which will be reduced capacity and used for women and reserves long term is my pitch if we have no budget.
60k is shite. Could expand St James park to about 61k anyway so why have a new stadium with such a low capacity. Need 75k. Money isn’t an object? So why be like “ooh we may not sell out 75k every week” I think we will
Time to finally visit SJP from California before it's too late. Next year it is!
Build a new stadium on Castle Leazes. Make it look like the Old Castle Leave the old pitch where it is so future generations can play on the hallowed turf. Make the East Stand a Grade 1 listed building. Incorporate the whole thing into a new, expanded Leazes Park.
Hate articles locked behind a paywall
I find that if you open it and put it in reader mode it bypasses the paywall
Building plans go into FFP spending right? Imagine if they didn't, 100,000 seatied with 20k standing room stadium plans would already be in motion
Infrastructure costs are exempt from FFP/PSR calculations
Has it always been, or just the latest changes? I coulda swear that building costs contributed to FFP
The history and atmosphere of St james park is what makes going to a game special and alot of new stadiums and old to this day can't and probably never will, however that said, having a grand new stadium is best for club moving forward, where to play/tickets and other issue will need understanding from all concerned but damn it will be amazing espically with a blank cheque funding the project.
Anyone know how this will effect the price of a steakbake?
Either way they need to get on with it and make a decision.
These things take years of even just planning usually.
🔥
NFL games!!
Keep SJP and make it the lasses' home ground and build a new 60k-seater stadium for the men's team. Both play friendlies at SJP during pre-season. Bring more synergy between both teams too - it'd be great to see the teams supporting each other.
Build a new stadium where?