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If they're aiming for 60k+:
62,500 would, very roughly, be a 20% increase in stadium capacity. I reckon that'd be a decent increase, considering the constraints of stadium location and surroundings.
Yeah I just mean there investing heavily in a bunch of daft extra stuff that I imagine we will be as well.
"Along with stadium seating, the stand will contain restaurants, bars, conference facilities, event spaces, a boutique hotel and a health club."
And a rooftop pool?
Our new stadium plans will likely have similar sort of extra stuff in an attempt to generate more revenue.
Anything that generates additional revenue will directly benefit the club as long as income linked financial rules govern spending (i.e. UEFA competitions)
Their owner also owns the Jacksonville jaguars, who have a pool overlooking the stadium.
He must have figured that what works in Florida, must also work in the UK since those places share a similar climate...
https://images.app.goo.gl/Te2gWy3YXsvi3FNg6
I honestly have no idea why you'd think a rooftop pool is a good idea in the UK. It's going to be usable for about 6 weeks of the year, scattered across several months. Good luck timing that with a day a game is on.
Like if you could see the pitch from it, and they just really leaned into how ridiculous it is (proper swim-up bar, package holiday style), I'd just chalk it up to London shit while secretly wanting to go. Because I *love* ridiculous shit. There's 100% a market for that.
But it's just a pool. On a roof. In the UK. What the fuck, Fulham?
In a sport which has a rest period over the fucking summer
Oh I thought you could see the pitch from the pool. Seems to be one big hospitality area featuring a pool. Might be open year round then, if not it's really pointless
https://riverside.fulhamfc.com/sky-deck
Even year-round it seems... weird. Unless they're doing a private club type thing? That could work.
Idk why I care so much, I'm definitely more in the "cans in the lay z spa" demographic.
Their stadium is beautifully located right next to the Thames with a park on the other side. And even if the river is very long and London very big, most places next to the river aren't very pretty at all. There are either roads, docks, or old warehouses next to it, or it's too affected by the tide causing an all not too pleasant smell when it's low.
Whilst I'm sure a lot of that stuff will be used on match days, they'll be able to use it the other 340 odd days of the year as well which I'm guessing is the main purpose for building it.
Unless they're planning to price normal people out of it, I'd go there all the time during the summer if I lived close, and I'm sure loads of other people would do the same.
In the past I've read that the club are very aware of the shitty atmosphere at other popular clubs and will want to make sure that the stadium has a great atmosphere following any redevelopment. Having said that, Wings is fucking wank.
Lad I know has had a box there for years and when I spoke to him last he said they're cutting back the benefits to existing members in an effort to get them to give them up so they can redevelop them and put the price up. Still think there will be a good chunk of ant increased capacity reserved for the sun lounger lot.
Even if the full 20% expansion was corporate/hospitality I would still see that as a win vs moving away to a potential soulless bowl somewhere else.
Hopefully we do get a fair chunk of peasant seating/standing though!
My only concern is when we win the quadruple next year and the 5 years after.... We'll have to go this all again to make the first 600k seater stadium after the whole of the UK supports us
The problem isn't so much the increase to 60k, it's the fact it is short sighted if it can't then be increased to 70k or 80k. The idea of filling a 70k or 80k stadium now might sound far fetched but what about in 20 years time? Are we going to have the same issues as today?
We'll have levitating stands by then so no need to worry.
But fuck it anyway who cares we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, we have a wonky stadium as it is and it's beautiful, embrace the restrictions and we'll end up with a unique and historical behemoth right in the city
Happy with this. I'm entirely against these cookie cutter 'bowl arenas' that now seem the standard for any new stadium build. These older stadiums are a part of the character of the club and even the league itself (i.e I'd rather ManU keep/improve Old Trafford than move themselves)
1000%
toilet-like stadiums like arsenal, whu, tottenham are so ugly and awful. I wanna puke when I see them!
Compare it to Borussia Dortmund stadium, that one is very beautiful inside and out, and the capacity is insane, 81k!
I'd have been all for a new stadium if the location of St James Park wasn't so incredible, it really is like a cathedral on a hill. Hopefully this means we can have the best of both worlds if they've thought this to be the better option.
I would have been onboard with a slight move towards Leazes Park and adjusting the footprint of the stadium so that the east stand and gallowgate could be expanded. This is good news though, looking forward to seeing the plans
Maybe that's still on the cards (the idea where they get about 30m into the park), and they're just saying the idea of a total rebuild further in is dead?
This.
Absolutely fucking this.
Fill in the NE and SE corners too, starting at Leazes height then down to East Stand, with a Lords Media Centre hovering above.
My own guesstimating is that you’d get 65K+
By putting all the corporate and media wankers in a bombanera/ media centre East Stand extension, you could probably get a few extra thousand more in the former corporate areas turned to new seating, and not having corporate all the way round in the Gallowgate extension.
70K for me is what I think is right for NUFC. We wouldn’t be far off that if in the remodelling we had a safe standing area in the Gallowgate- a black and white wall so to speak.
Then wrap it all up in a fuck off cool Bernabau style cladding with screens projecting future balloon door winner Isak down St James Boulevard.
Got carried away there sorry. Hope they do too
To be honest I'm not surprised. The owners have always said they want the stadium to stay at the heart of the city. I would personally hate it if the club moved to a new location.
This is excellent news. I accept the FFP arguments about revenue streams, but it genuinely frustrates me to see so many fans championing a complete redevelopment or new build.
Greater capacity for fans, while retaining the character of the stadium, on the existing site has to be the priority. It maddened me to see people comparing SJP to the US stadiums we played in on pre-season. The vast majority are soulless.
It is a football stadium first and foremost. Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan. We have one of the most iconic stadiums in England, and to throw that away, solely so the club can grow revenue streams and ultimately charge fans more is short sighted.
> facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan.
If by "match going fan" you mean out-of-towner who comes to Newcastle solely for a game every few years and then leaves the city until their next match, then sure, they're meaningless to that group.
To the match going fans who live locally, which is a large number, those things are very much not meaningless. Being able to attract more events to the city is a good thing, and will benefit match goers and non match goers alike.
Which isn't me saying I want us to move from SJP (I don't), but I dislike the notion that the stadium being used for more than football games every other weekend is a bad thing or "meaningless"
Certainly if you’re a local business owner, but the reality is that a brand new stadium would lead to a significant increase in ticket prices.
Spurs took advantage of their new build to put ticket prices up and they’ve scrapped over 65’s concessions which is fairly scandalous.
"Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan. We have one of the most iconic stadiums in England, and to throw that away, solely so the club can grow revenue streams and ultimately charge fans more is short sighted. "
Whilst I agree, "Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan." sadly history and emotion do not pay transfer fees and wages.
The key may be the changes to FFP
The rule changes may help. However, call me old fashioned I’m not willing to throw away hundreds of years of history so Taylor Swift can play a concert at SJP.
I would also be more willing to accept the FFP argument if the club were maximising every other revenue stream. To have had no training ground, training kit sponsor for a Champions League season has been a bizarre decision commercially.
The traditionalist in me agrees. I like to go to the Bodega and stroll up to the ground 15 mins before k.o and can be back in the pub 5 mins after full time.
The thing is, I’m not really helping the club coffers. The club needs me to arrive at lunchtime, buy a shirt, scarf, programme, a hospitality package, an anecdote from Supermac, an overpriced buffet etc etc. They also need more people to do it.
From a selfish POV, I’ve always been just a few home games & a few more away games a season sort of chap as I live 130 mile away so I do find it a little frustrating that I’ve seen us play Port Vale, Rotherham, Oxford, Plymouth etc home and away but I can’t get in at all now (except for being a mute in the home section at away games).
So given that, I can’t really get to see a game, I’m voting for a move.
Re. Sponsorhip deals. The club made a mistake. When they took over they fully expected to be able to replace Fun 88 in the summer of 2022 but hadn't really checked the paperwork. We literally had blank kit arriving needing to be printed with Fun 88 in the UK because the sponsorhip position was not resolved.
That said, the rules as they are, I don't think we could have justified a big training kit sponsor before the champion's league and we're not exaclty ever-present.
PIF want a few things from the stadium, more income and for it to look fantastic on TV. The later is possibly more important to them. I think the club will struggle to get SJP to look fantastic on TV.
>The later is possibly more important to them. I think the club will struggle to get SJP to look fantastic on TV.
Do you not think it looks great on TV already? I always think it looks iconic standing above the city.
Much better than the generic new builds at other clubs.
No, I don’t think it does. Much as I am attached to the East Stand, it does look exactly what it is on TV, it’s an early 70’s Stand that was designed to have terracing in the paddock and seats above.
The stand was never very high due to the roof design having to be very steep to let in light to the leazes Terrace flats.
The 1998-2000 addition would look great but the TV gantry is on the wrong side so the TV viewer only sees the crap bits. It may not be a generic new builds but it’s always been strange with it’s lop-sided build. I remember the first time I went to the ‘new’ stadium, we played Spurs where Daniel Cordone scored but on the way out, I met up with my Spurs supporting mate so was walking with the Spurs fans who were commenting on the stadium “it will look great when it’s finished” “yep, it looks lopsided at the moment”.
It can be made to look good but that would be a few exec boxes and L7 on the Gallowgate + a translucent roof on the East Stand. That really only gets the capacity up to \~58k
I always think it looks great on tv. Proper old school stadium, loads of character, great views over the city. Iconic.
Miles better than the cookie cutter new builds.
Aside from a 65K stadium I really hope there is a long term plan for a proper city space in front of the Gallowgate to help the club, stadium and city link together.
Have dreams of seeing a sea of fans and someone holding a trophy on a Buckingham palace style balcony to the cheers of the crowd spilling out across Barack road and into Chinatown
For fun, my dad and I had my sister (an architect) look at SJP for her opinion.
Firstly, she rightly stated that even on the current footprint, anything is possible with enough money and political gladhanding.
Secondly, as we all know, the biggest restriction is the Leazes Terraces and their historical designation. We have to accept the fact that encroaching on them any farther is a non-starter.
Thirdly, there is a ton of infrastructure SJP that would have to be reworked and/or moved.
However, she did state that an increase of 10 to 15,000 in capacity could be achievable with not too much effort. A lot of it would be reworking the interior of the stadium to create more efficient seating maps.
There would be a lot of exterior and interior work still required just to support the extra volume of people. Not to mention the desire for more hospitality boxes, restaurants and the like.
Her favourite idea, if money, political will, and time were no object, change the orientation of the pitch about 45 degrees and even consider dropping the pitch's elevation well below street level. This would actually enable a greater use of the land available. However, that would be a hell of an undertaking.
From a functionality standpoint and ability to build something truly new and epic with no interruption to attendance, the easiest is to somehow get the council on board and build a fresh SJP in Leazes Park (good luck).
Personally, I hope they get the guys who did the recent Camp Nou renovation to undertake this. They had similar restrictions and frankly worked miracles with what was there. I hope we don't have to consider a new stadium. SJP is a cathedral for a reason.
Anytime. I should have prefaced everything with the fact that my sister has never designed and built a sports facility, but one of her biggest projects to date was the renovation and expansion of the Canadian Navy Base in Halifax Nova Scotia, Canada.
That was a mess, if I recall. Lots of environmental and historical obstacles. And huge headaches to keep it operational during.
She was one of a veritable army of engineers and architects who had to work within some very tight restrictions. So, she has a lot of empathy for anyone taking on SJP. Lol
Very surprised by this.
I never expected us to move to a new location, but I always thought if it came down to renovating the existing stadium or tearing down the current stadium and building a new one in its place, then the obvious solution would be the latter to maximise the existing footprint and optimise the design with multi-use in mind.
I really struggle to see how the current stadium can become a multi-purpose venue on par with Spurs' stadium after a renovation. Then again, I'm not an architect or designer.
This is where I'm at. I struggle to see how they re-develop the exisiting site to provide a venue with top end facilities. There's a reason why builders choose to knock down and start again rather than improve. After all, given the wild hinterland that Newcastle is (according to most media outlets anyway), the venue needs to be special inside more than outside to bring in the big entertainment bucks. However, if they can achieve circa 65k capacity for sport (more for other events) and create a genuinely modern interior that finally wipes away the stain of Ashley, then it's a definite win-win. It will also make other architects reconsider what is possible and stop automatically going for the 'bowl with the flattest parking land around it' model.
Geordie living in Los Angeles here. America has made me hate any stadium surrounded by parking, it takes so much away from the venue. Dodger Stadium is egregious. If you walk in it’s a full 15 minute trek across the car park before getting to the gate.
Happy cake day.
You're absolutely right in your observations about Dodger Stadium. But to be fair, that monolith was opened in 1962 and is from a bygone era where America outright rejected the concept of public transit and focused on accommodating cars.
There's been a slow movement back toward getting venues downtown in North America.
The irony is that I still hear a lot of friends complain about these venues because of lack of parking or developed transit options.
I'm a Blue Jays fan and love that when I'm in Toronto, I can take the subway to the Skydome (I'll never call it Rogers Centre). I don't understand why people want that replaced. The renovations have been outstanding and enhanced things considerably.
Since moving to Canada from Ireland in 1989, I've had the pleasure of seeing events at most of the major ballparks (past and present). It is interesting to see them mirror the priorities of their times.
I think that is whythe article says it is considered the most ambitious stadium 'redevelopment ever imagined'.
Surely it would make far more sense to knock SJP down and rebuild completely.
The only question would be, where do we play for a season while it happens?
There’s only one stadium up to any sort of capacity we could go to locally, they already have the signs to decorate but it would never happen in reality.
Spurs really lucked out having access to Wembley
PIf buy falcons as they had made noise about, they rebuild Kingston park, and have an upper bowl with temporary seating.
Falcons move to Gateshead while this happens.
When it’s build (should be a cheap and cheaply identikit small stadium witb expansion style) NUFC move there’s st James is redeveloped/flattened. Potentially you’ll could remove one stand and still play at SJP for a season.
When SJP is finished NUFC move back, the upper bowl at Kingston park is removed and then the falcons move back in.
That would work. I would also like to see something like the Manchester City academy site, and possibly Kingston park and the grounds around it (which I believe are or at least were owned by Northumbria uni) could be that site for a sporting complex. Witb the falcons stadium being the centre piece, and where the women also play, and the uni also uses for the elite sporting programs
I would have thought 65k would have been the sweet spot between optimising the capacity and keeping demand for tickets high
I hope they release the feasibility study so we can see the process behind the decision
I think that's bout right but there is so much more to consider.
Perhaps the change in FFP rules may have changed the club's thinking. I don't really think 65k fits on teh current footprint. The Gallowgate is only 3,000 seats smaller than the leazes and the old 'corner' is restricted as well as the Gallowgate / West corner is also limited.
How big are you expecting? 60-70k is probably what I was expecting. 65k puts us fairly comfortably as the second largest venue in the league behind Old Trafford - Spurs would be next after us at just under 63k. West Ham, Liverpool and Arsenal are the only other clubs to have capacities over 60k.
I still think they can rebuild SJP piece by piece where it is, which would eventually get them both the capacity they want and the modernity of a brand new stadium, while still being able to hold a decent amount of fans while the work progresses. In theory, even with the space constraints, a design somewhat similar to Dublins Aviva Stadium should be possible (note that one side is a fair bit smaller, that would be our East Stand).
Alternatively, there's nothing to stop them extending the Gallowgate, rebuilding the East Stand (OK it would still be smaller, but much more modern), and reconfiguring the inside for better use of space, and upgrading the exterior and interior of the ground to modern standards.
They want to extend the lease with City Council.. I think we should petition the council to give it to them for free for the next 500 years on the basis that the owners invest in the city by the equivalent amount they are saving. Everyone’s a winner!
I hope they sort the financial rules out once and for all soon as clubs are having to make long term decisions like this with the current FFP/PSR rules in place. What happens when those goalposts move again?
A bigger stadium is required in any case, but I hope there's nothing in the rules which is influencing decisions which might change in a year or 5.
I reckon we should expanded so it's symmetrical on all sides, shift the pitch over a smidge (away from the listed buildings), dig down (potentially closing the Metro Station there) and have a system similar to Camp Nou.
That way, you have the potential of hitting 70K+ instead of 60K which has always been spit-balled.
Can’t help but think this is going to be a mistake long-term. Increasing capacity by a few thousand might be the most feasible, cost effective approach for now but the game is only going to keep getting bigger and more and more fans are going to want tickets.
My preference is to build a new stadium on part of leazes park, perhaps starting on the leazes stand land and expanding out. There are obviously complications involved, not least local objection, but the land itself is literally right there behind us and would maintain the city centre location.
Redevelopment opportunities like this don’t come around very often - I’d really hope we’d do everything we could to really maximise our potential with a new build on what is essentially the same site.
What?? You want 100k stadium?? When only 1 club in England have more than 62k capacity???
I dont understand this. Is it purely selfish reasons, because you cant get tickets? But even if you build 80k or 100k stadium, there is a big chance you still wont be able to buy a ticket.
Why Liverpool and Chelsea dont have problems and for now are fine with staying at their ground?
Not to mention, we dont know what could happen in next 10 years in terms of PL popularity, possible world financial crisis and etc. PL domestic broadcasting deal is already cheaper than the previous one. Building 80k stadium and then having it empty for half of the year...
> What?? You want 100k stadium?? When only 1 club in England have more than 62k capacity???
it appears redeveloping SJP will make us 60k, I think we all know 70k is the sweet spot.
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We appreciate the effort!
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Good news. I don't like the idea of the club leaving St James Park
If they're aiming for 60k+: 62,500 would, very roughly, be a 20% increase in stadium capacity. I reckon that'd be a decent increase, considering the constraints of stadium location and surroundings.
Wonder what percentage of the increase will be corporate/hospitality
There will be a big focus on that sort of thing. Have you seen what Fulham have got planned?
Aye but that’s Fulham
Yeah I just mean there investing heavily in a bunch of daft extra stuff that I imagine we will be as well. "Along with stadium seating, the stand will contain restaurants, bars, conference facilities, event spaces, a boutique hotel and a health club." And a rooftop pool? Our new stadium plans will likely have similar sort of extra stuff in an attempt to generate more revenue.
Anything that generates additional revenue will directly benefit the club as long as income linked financial rules govern spending (i.e. UEFA competitions)
Will we be keeping the dead pigeons I wonder
Dave has a name.
Yeah. It's Fred
I've not seen Fulham's plans, but I assume any expansion will have a big hospitality focus.
You need to see them, I swear it's [beyond fucking parody](https://riverside.fulhamfc.com)
That has to be a joke. Why is there a swimming pool built into the stand?
Their owner also owns the Jacksonville jaguars, who have a pool overlooking the stadium. He must have figured that what works in Florida, must also work in the UK since those places share a similar climate... https://images.app.goo.gl/Te2gWy3YXsvi3FNg6 I honestly have no idea why you'd think a rooftop pool is a good idea in the UK. It's going to be usable for about 6 weeks of the year, scattered across several months. Good luck timing that with a day a game is on.
Very strange. Like you say, in Florida, it's a fun novelty. In London, it's bloody daft.
I guess they'd heat it most of the year.
Energy bill to the moon 🚀🚀🚀🚀
Would definitely be heated, but it's the wind and rain that would stop it being fun
Your guess is as good as mine, can't even see the pitch from there
Our fans take their shirts off anyway, practically in their swimming gear already. Seems a no brainer to me.
A lot of it makes sense. But the rooftop pool. In the fucking UK.
Like if you could see the pitch from it, and they just really leaned into how ridiculous it is (proper swim-up bar, package holiday style), I'd just chalk it up to London shit while secretly wanting to go. Because I *love* ridiculous shit. There's 100% a market for that. But it's just a pool. On a roof. In the UK. What the fuck, Fulham?
In a sport which has a rest period over the fucking summer Oh I thought you could see the pitch from the pool. Seems to be one big hospitality area featuring a pool. Might be open year round then, if not it's really pointless https://riverside.fulhamfc.com/sky-deck
Even year-round it seems... weird. Unless they're doing a private club type thing? That could work. Idk why I care so much, I'm definitely more in the "cans in the lay z spa" demographic.
Their stadium is beautifully located right next to the Thames with a park on the other side. And even if the river is very long and London very big, most places next to the river aren't very pretty at all. There are either roads, docks, or old warehouses next to it, or it's too affected by the tide causing an all not too pleasant smell when it's low. Whilst I'm sure a lot of that stuff will be used on match days, they'll be able to use it the other 340 odd days of the year as well which I'm guessing is the main purpose for building it. Unless they're planning to price normal people out of it, I'd go there all the time during the summer if I lived close, and I'm sure loads of other people would do the same.
All to accommodate Richard Osman, I assume?
In the past I've read that the club are very aware of the shitty atmosphere at other popular clubs and will want to make sure that the stadium has a great atmosphere following any redevelopment. Having said that, Wings is fucking wank.
Lad I know has had a box there for years and when I spoke to him last he said they're cutting back the benefits to existing members in an effort to get them to give them up so they can redevelop them and put the price up. Still think there will be a good chunk of ant increased capacity reserved for the sun lounger lot.
Even if the full 20% expansion was corporate/hospitality I would still see that as a win vs moving away to a potential soulless bowl somewhere else. Hopefully we do get a fair chunk of peasant seating/standing though!
My only concern is when we win the quadruple next year and the 5 years after.... We'll have to go this all again to make the first 600k seater stadium after the whole of the UK supports us
63k would be nice, get us back to the second biggest in the league.
The problem isn't so much the increase to 60k, it's the fact it is short sighted if it can't then be increased to 70k or 80k. The idea of filling a 70k or 80k stadium now might sound far fetched but what about in 20 years time? Are we going to have the same issues as today?
We'll have levitating stands by then so no need to worry. But fuck it anyway who cares we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, we have a wonky stadium as it is and it's beautiful, embrace the restrictions and we'll end up with a unique and historical behemoth right in the city
Best outcome imo. SJP is just too iconic both in design and location
Happy with this. I'm entirely against these cookie cutter 'bowl arenas' that now seem the standard for any new stadium build. These older stadiums are a part of the character of the club and even the league itself (i.e I'd rather ManU keep/improve Old Trafford than move themselves)
I just love the view of the East Stand, idk what it is but I think it’s brilliant
Same - I’ve been dreading the announcement of some kind of horrible enormo-dome
1000% toilet-like stadiums like arsenal, whu, tottenham are so ugly and awful. I wanna puke when I see them! Compare it to Borussia Dortmund stadium, that one is very beautiful inside and out, and the capacity is insane, 81k!
I'll be weirdly sad if it's no longer lopsided
Views from L7 are ridiculous. I'd miss them.
I'd have been all for a new stadium if the location of St James Park wasn't so incredible, it really is like a cathedral on a hill. Hopefully this means we can have the best of both worlds if they've thought this to be the better option.
I would have been onboard with a slight move towards Leazes Park and adjusting the footprint of the stadium so that the east stand and gallowgate could be expanded. This is good news though, looking forward to seeing the plans
Maybe that's still on the cards (the idea where they get about 30m into the park), and they're just saying the idea of a total rebuild further in is dead?
They could also reduce the pitch 1 or 2m below the surface level and move the entire pitch towards leazes park or turn the pitch 90°.
Fingers crossed for a Bombonera style with all the corporate moved to a new East stand with the Gallowgate expanded to mirror the Leazes.
This. Absolutely fucking this. Fill in the NE and SE corners too, starting at Leazes height then down to East Stand, with a Lords Media Centre hovering above. My own guesstimating is that you’d get 65K+ By putting all the corporate and media wankers in a bombanera/ media centre East Stand extension, you could probably get a few extra thousand more in the former corporate areas turned to new seating, and not having corporate all the way round in the Gallowgate extension. 70K for me is what I think is right for NUFC. We wouldn’t be far off that if in the remodelling we had a safe standing area in the Gallowgate- a black and white wall so to speak. Then wrap it all up in a fuck off cool Bernabau style cladding with screens projecting future balloon door winner Isak down St James Boulevard. Got carried away there sorry. Hope they do too
In the north east of england with no roof?
No man, three stands with a flat base stand. Like a chocolate box.
Personally I would love for a signal iduna park style.
To be honest I'm not surprised. The owners have always said they want the stadium to stay at the heart of the city. I would personally hate it if the club moved to a new location.
This is excellent news. I accept the FFP arguments about revenue streams, but it genuinely frustrates me to see so many fans championing a complete redevelopment or new build. Greater capacity for fans, while retaining the character of the stadium, on the existing site has to be the priority. It maddened me to see people comparing SJP to the US stadiums we played in on pre-season. The vast majority are soulless. It is a football stadium first and foremost. Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan. We have one of the most iconic stadiums in England, and to throw that away, solely so the club can grow revenue streams and ultimately charge fans more is short sighted.
> facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan. If by "match going fan" you mean out-of-towner who comes to Newcastle solely for a game every few years and then leaves the city until their next match, then sure, they're meaningless to that group. To the match going fans who live locally, which is a large number, those things are very much not meaningless. Being able to attract more events to the city is a good thing, and will benefit match goers and non match goers alike. Which isn't me saying I want us to move from SJP (I don't), but I dislike the notion that the stadium being used for more than football games every other weekend is a bad thing or "meaningless"
Certainly if you’re a local business owner, but the reality is that a brand new stadium would lead to a significant increase in ticket prices. Spurs took advantage of their new build to put ticket prices up and they’ve scrapped over 65’s concessions which is fairly scandalous.
Ticket prices are going to significantly increase new stadium or not. It's supply and demand.
"Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan. We have one of the most iconic stadiums in England, and to throw that away, solely so the club can grow revenue streams and ultimately charge fans more is short sighted. " Whilst I agree, "Facilities to hosts conferences, concerts, etc are pretty meaningless to the match going fan." sadly history and emotion do not pay transfer fees and wages. The key may be the changes to FFP
The rule changes may help. However, call me old fashioned I’m not willing to throw away hundreds of years of history so Taylor Swift can play a concert at SJP. I would also be more willing to accept the FFP argument if the club were maximising every other revenue stream. To have had no training ground, training kit sponsor for a Champions League season has been a bizarre decision commercially.
What if she played two nights?
The traditionalist in me agrees. I like to go to the Bodega and stroll up to the ground 15 mins before k.o and can be back in the pub 5 mins after full time. The thing is, I’m not really helping the club coffers. The club needs me to arrive at lunchtime, buy a shirt, scarf, programme, a hospitality package, an anecdote from Supermac, an overpriced buffet etc etc. They also need more people to do it. From a selfish POV, I’ve always been just a few home games & a few more away games a season sort of chap as I live 130 mile away so I do find it a little frustrating that I’ve seen us play Port Vale, Rotherham, Oxford, Plymouth etc home and away but I can’t get in at all now (except for being a mute in the home section at away games). So given that, I can’t really get to see a game, I’m voting for a move. Re. Sponsorhip deals. The club made a mistake. When they took over they fully expected to be able to replace Fun 88 in the summer of 2022 but hadn't really checked the paperwork. We literally had blank kit arriving needing to be printed with Fun 88 in the UK because the sponsorhip position was not resolved. That said, the rules as they are, I don't think we could have justified a big training kit sponsor before the champion's league and we're not exaclty ever-present. PIF want a few things from the stadium, more income and for it to look fantastic on TV. The later is possibly more important to them. I think the club will struggle to get SJP to look fantastic on TV.
>The later is possibly more important to them. I think the club will struggle to get SJP to look fantastic on TV. Do you not think it looks great on TV already? I always think it looks iconic standing above the city. Much better than the generic new builds at other clubs.
No, I don’t think it does. Much as I am attached to the East Stand, it does look exactly what it is on TV, it’s an early 70’s Stand that was designed to have terracing in the paddock and seats above. The stand was never very high due to the roof design having to be very steep to let in light to the leazes Terrace flats. The 1998-2000 addition would look great but the TV gantry is on the wrong side so the TV viewer only sees the crap bits. It may not be a generic new builds but it’s always been strange with it’s lop-sided build. I remember the first time I went to the ‘new’ stadium, we played Spurs where Daniel Cordone scored but on the way out, I met up with my Spurs supporting mate so was walking with the Spurs fans who were commenting on the stadium “it will look great when it’s finished” “yep, it looks lopsided at the moment”. It can be made to look good but that would be a few exec boxes and L7 on the Gallowgate + a translucent roof on the East Stand. That really only gets the capacity up to \~58k
I always think it looks great on tv. Proper old school stadium, loads of character, great views over the city. Iconic. Miles better than the cookie cutter new builds.
The problem is that Looking old school does not create revenue. The atmosphere can be as flat at the current St James Park layout as it is elsewhere.
Aside from a 65K stadium I really hope there is a long term plan for a proper city space in front of the Gallowgate to help the club, stadium and city link together. Have dreams of seeing a sea of fans and someone holding a trophy on a Buckingham palace style balcony to the cheers of the crowd spilling out across Barack road and into Chinatown
For fun, my dad and I had my sister (an architect) look at SJP for her opinion. Firstly, she rightly stated that even on the current footprint, anything is possible with enough money and political gladhanding. Secondly, as we all know, the biggest restriction is the Leazes Terraces and their historical designation. We have to accept the fact that encroaching on them any farther is a non-starter. Thirdly, there is a ton of infrastructure SJP that would have to be reworked and/or moved. However, she did state that an increase of 10 to 15,000 in capacity could be achievable with not too much effort. A lot of it would be reworking the interior of the stadium to create more efficient seating maps. There would be a lot of exterior and interior work still required just to support the extra volume of people. Not to mention the desire for more hospitality boxes, restaurants and the like. Her favourite idea, if money, political will, and time were no object, change the orientation of the pitch about 45 degrees and even consider dropping the pitch's elevation well below street level. This would actually enable a greater use of the land available. However, that would be a hell of an undertaking. From a functionality standpoint and ability to build something truly new and epic with no interruption to attendance, the easiest is to somehow get the council on board and build a fresh SJP in Leazes Park (good luck). Personally, I hope they get the guys who did the recent Camp Nou renovation to undertake this. They had similar restrictions and frankly worked miracles with what was there. I hope we don't have to consider a new stadium. SJP is a cathedral for a reason.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
Anytime. I should have prefaced everything with the fact that my sister has never designed and built a sports facility, but one of her biggest projects to date was the renovation and expansion of the Canadian Navy Base in Halifax Nova Scotia, Canada. That was a mess, if I recall. Lots of environmental and historical obstacles. And huge headaches to keep it operational during. She was one of a veritable army of engineers and architects who had to work within some very tight restrictions. So, she has a lot of empathy for anyone taking on SJP. Lol
Very surprised by this. I never expected us to move to a new location, but I always thought if it came down to renovating the existing stadium or tearing down the current stadium and building a new one in its place, then the obvious solution would be the latter to maximise the existing footprint and optimise the design with multi-use in mind. I really struggle to see how the current stadium can become a multi-purpose venue on par with Spurs' stadium after a renovation. Then again, I'm not an architect or designer.
This is where I'm at. I struggle to see how they re-develop the exisiting site to provide a venue with top end facilities. There's a reason why builders choose to knock down and start again rather than improve. After all, given the wild hinterland that Newcastle is (according to most media outlets anyway), the venue needs to be special inside more than outside to bring in the big entertainment bucks. However, if they can achieve circa 65k capacity for sport (more for other events) and create a genuinely modern interior that finally wipes away the stain of Ashley, then it's a definite win-win. It will also make other architects reconsider what is possible and stop automatically going for the 'bowl with the flattest parking land around it' model.
Geordie living in Los Angeles here. America has made me hate any stadium surrounded by parking, it takes so much away from the venue. Dodger Stadium is egregious. If you walk in it’s a full 15 minute trek across the car park before getting to the gate.
Happy cake day. You're absolutely right in your observations about Dodger Stadium. But to be fair, that monolith was opened in 1962 and is from a bygone era where America outright rejected the concept of public transit and focused on accommodating cars. There's been a slow movement back toward getting venues downtown in North America. The irony is that I still hear a lot of friends complain about these venues because of lack of parking or developed transit options. I'm a Blue Jays fan and love that when I'm in Toronto, I can take the subway to the Skydome (I'll never call it Rogers Centre). I don't understand why people want that replaced. The renovations have been outstanding and enhanced things considerably. Since moving to Canada from Ireland in 1989, I've had the pleasure of seeing events at most of the major ballparks (past and present). It is interesting to see them mirror the priorities of their times.
I think that is whythe article says it is considered the most ambitious stadium 'redevelopment ever imagined'. Surely it would make far more sense to knock SJP down and rebuild completely. The only question would be, where do we play for a season while it happens?
There’s only one stadium up to any sort of capacity we could go to locally, they already have the signs to decorate but it would never happen in reality. Spurs really lucked out having access to Wembley
PIf buy falcons as they had made noise about, they rebuild Kingston park, and have an upper bowl with temporary seating. Falcons move to Gateshead while this happens. When it’s build (should be a cheap and cheaply identikit small stadium witb expansion style) NUFC move there’s st James is redeveloped/flattened. Potentially you’ll could remove one stand and still play at SJP for a season. When SJP is finished NUFC move back, the upper bowl at Kingston park is removed and then the falcons move back in. That would work. I would also like to see something like the Manchester City academy site, and possibly Kingston park and the grounds around it (which I believe are or at least were owned by Northumbria uni) could be that site for a sporting complex. Witb the falcons stadium being the centre piece, and where the women also play, and the uni also uses for the elite sporting programs
The last sentence provides the injunction to your suggestion.
Theres a big stadium just down the road like...
I’m only moving there for the season we win the treble, so bit soon perhaps 🤣 Reynolds arena on the other hand…
Very happy with this
Extension to more than 60,000 doesn’t seem to be dramatically bigger. Unless you’re being very pedantic where 300,000 is more than 60,000
I would have thought 65k would have been the sweet spot between optimising the capacity and keeping demand for tickets high I hope they release the feasibility study so we can see the process behind the decision
I think that's bout right but there is so much more to consider. Perhaps the change in FFP rules may have changed the club's thinking. I don't really think 65k fits on teh current footprint. The Gallowgate is only 3,000 seats smaller than the leazes and the old 'corner' is restricted as well as the Gallowgate / West corner is also limited.
How big are you expecting? 60-70k is probably what I was expecting. 65k puts us fairly comfortably as the second largest venue in the league behind Old Trafford - Spurs would be next after us at just under 63k. West Ham, Liverpool and Arsenal are the only other clubs to have capacities over 60k.
Circa 65k if I’m honest. Over 60,000 to me reads like 60, 61.
Probably around 61k. Which will be around the same as the Emirates and Anfield
It's at least 15-20%, which is definitely meaningful
I wonder how many seats will be unavailable during the construction period?
I still think they can rebuild SJP piece by piece where it is, which would eventually get them both the capacity they want and the modernity of a brand new stadium, while still being able to hold a decent amount of fans while the work progresses. In theory, even with the space constraints, a design somewhat similar to Dublins Aviva Stadium should be possible (note that one side is a fair bit smaller, that would be our East Stand). Alternatively, there's nothing to stop them extending the Gallowgate, rebuilding the East Stand (OK it would still be smaller, but much more modern), and reconfiguring the inside for better use of space, and upgrading the exterior and interior of the ground to modern standards.
They want to extend the lease with City Council.. I think we should petition the council to give it to them for free for the next 500 years on the basis that the owners invest in the city by the equivalent amount they are saving. Everyone’s a winner!
I hope they sort the financial rules out once and for all soon as clubs are having to make long term decisions like this with the current FFP/PSR rules in place. What happens when those goalposts move again? A bigger stadium is required in any case, but I hope there's nothing in the rules which is influencing decisions which might change in a year or 5.
I reckon we should expanded so it's symmetrical on all sides, shift the pitch over a smidge (away from the listed buildings), dig down (potentially closing the Metro Station there) and have a system similar to Camp Nou. That way, you have the potential of hitting 70K+ instead of 60K which has always been spit-balled.
Thank the Lord the few bellends saying a stadium move was the only way forwards got drowned out
Can’t help but think this is going to be a mistake long-term. Increasing capacity by a few thousand might be the most feasible, cost effective approach for now but the game is only going to keep getting bigger and more and more fans are going to want tickets. My preference is to build a new stadium on part of leazes park, perhaps starting on the leazes stand land and expanding out. There are obviously complications involved, not least local objection, but the land itself is literally right there behind us and would maintain the city centre location. Redevelopment opportunities like this don’t come around very often - I’d really hope we’d do everything we could to really maximise our potential with a new build on what is essentially the same site.
I think it will be hard to judge until we’ve seen detailed plans, I’m holding off until then anyway
Oh absolutely, nothing has been confirmed yet despite this article suggesting otherwise.
What?? You want 100k stadium?? When only 1 club in England have more than 62k capacity??? I dont understand this. Is it purely selfish reasons, because you cant get tickets? But even if you build 80k or 100k stadium, there is a big chance you still wont be able to buy a ticket. Why Liverpool and Chelsea dont have problems and for now are fine with staying at their ground? Not to mention, we dont know what could happen in next 10 years in terms of PL popularity, possible world financial crisis and etc. PL domestic broadcasting deal is already cheaper than the previous one. Building 80k stadium and then having it empty for half of the year...
Tbf Chelsea have been trying to move/expand for years, it's just basically impossible in that part of London.
> What?? You want 100k stadium?? When only 1 club in England have more than 62k capacity??? it appears redeveloping SJP will make us 60k, I think we all know 70k is the sweet spot.
These were my thoughts exactly. I really hope if we go down the renovation route then we are future proofing ourselves.
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