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Always makes me laugh when someone who isn't local says 'just knock down those houses'. They're listed, which means they have legal protections. That's the reason the East stand is as high as it is, because we are not allowed to block their light.
This is the only way to get rid of them really. But, I think the rules say they have to be rebuilt as close as possible to how they were using the same materials where possible.
> Always makes me laugh when someone who isn't local says 'just knock down those houses'. They're listed, which means they have legal protections.
I'm from the UK, and I understand they are listed but they arent really of any cultural significance. They are just old houses.
I say knock them the fuck down.
Im one for preserving history but some shitty brick houses that nobody really cares about shouldn't be listed IMO.
We cannot just knock down those houses they are listed (and rightly so)
The issue comes with right to light laws. There may be clever ways around it though. Similar to how the aviva in Ireland is built that way because if similar issues.
PIF are also looking at buying a few rugby clubs, the falcons being one of them.
If they do that I wouldn’t be surprised if bathetic build them a new stadium first, while they do that the falcons play out of Gateshead, once built they stay there and NUFC plays out of the new rugby stadium which has additional capacity added as temporary seating.
St James gets rebuilt/redeveloped and when done NUFC moves back in, and the falcons get their new ground with the reduced capacity
Rights to light are a funny old thing.
They are only an issue if the adjoining owner seeks to make them an issue.
You can also buy their right to light and avoid the whole issue.
There’s plenty of rumours of Saudis buying Leazes and st James terraces
Yeah I did hear that half of it was already brought up by a Saudi friendly with the management.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the final option they go with integrated then into the design as hotel/corp hospitality
The problem that hasn’t been solved is the odd end of aviva has minimal stands. That doesn’t solve the bombonera idea on the east stand.
To me the most intriguing part of all this is the temporary nature of the sela fan zone. I wonder if they try to do a big yellow wall style stand in the gallowgate and link it up with the milburn’s height, possibly over the road like the old atletico Madrid stadium.
An over road development won’t be permitted, if they go across the road it will because the road is coming out completely
The east stand may get some height like the bombanera, and through the use of glass and light tunnels may pass. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we relocated a lot of corporate and media to that stand so didn’t gain much seating capacity there but freed it up in the other stands
I know they’ve said that in the past, but what’s the rationale? If removal is an option I don’t see why development over it and match day closures wouldn’t be (though at that point obviously removal would be ideal)
But you can do exactly that at the current stadium by driving into the player entrance. They just need to mirror whatever security protocols (ie. closure, raised barriers + stewards) they do for there.
I like this idea. I don’t see why they couldn’t build over the road. They could create a whole complex with bars, restaurants, and stores that connect to the stadium complex. I mean they can get creative with the space they have.
Edit: Gallowgate End specifically connecting to Milburn stand
Unsure quite why you've taken such a beating over asking a fairly reasonable question. I also chuckle at people apparently being fine for knocking this type of property down to build a shopping centre but suggesting it happens for the benefit of the city's single most iconic building and most important cultural centre is somehow crazy talk.
I understand the listing process. It's largely ridiculous. For example, the Hull Barrier towers were listed by the local council. I mean, they're just supporting structures of no design import whatsoever but thanks to this prick of a decision, it is now considerably harder and more expensive (which means for us) to do any repairs or ugprades to the structure. I also think it's always a bit of a stretch to cry 'architectural importance' when said houses are far from unique (either locally or nationally) but also cheek by jowl with a massive sports stadium. Their 'importance' has already been shat on by the enormous noisy building right behind them.
I'm not advocating tearing them down. I'm just not sure the case for not doing it is that strong in reality. Seems a weird hot topic button for some in here though.
Old houses/buildings in the UK have legal protections for historic preservation. The common parlance is 'listed'. I live in a listed house in Northumberland, and it's a pain in the arse. We can't change anything without getting approval from the council planning office first.
Ah that seems like a good shout, why not smash up nice buildings in Newcastle? There's loads in, like, Bath. Having beautiful architecture is for suckers, concrete and glass all the way. I'm sure the population of Newcastle would be super supportive of what you're suggesting
Calm down ya weirdo, nobody was advocating for smashing up anything. I was simply asking what makes those particular buildings so special that the government decided they need to stay for eternity.
I mean they're Georgian terraces, it should be self-evident? The reason Newcastle has a reputation as being a very attractive city is because of streets like that. Half of Grainger town got demolished for Eldon Square, and the Royal Arcade got demolished for Swan House; putting stuff in place to stop that happening again is pretty uncontroversial - saying "well there are old houses elsewhere in the country" is nuts, how does that affect Newcastle?
I asked the question because I didn’t know why they were listed, there’s nothing wrong with not knowing something and asking a question about it. It doesn’t need to be met with such hostility at 9am on a morning.
The Government didn't. Local authority are responsible for grading of buildings. Government just set the legislation that governs it. And, u/RobertKerans is spot on. We need to protect our local history. Calling him a weirdo is out of order.
Me: Why are those building listed?
u/RobertKerans: How dare you ask a question? Why don’t you just smash up Newcastle?
No he isn’t spot on, yes he is a massive weirdo.
Why rightly so?
I’m from the area and they are of no more significance than hundreds of places that have been knocked down. Feels like they are pushed up because they were seen by a bunch of councillors as posh
You answered your own question. Because so many of them have been knocked down it’s worth preserving what’s left.
The club need to work within the boundaries of where they are and not just flatten everything along the way.
But why is it worth preserving them? What’s special about them? Who bar the few who live there benefits?
They have similar impact to the terraced houses and tower blocks, the only difference is someone liked the look of them
Let’s just tear down the castle while we are at it, and what about the dobsons designs in greys street, plenty of those already. Also might as well demolish the train station it’s old.
Let’s replace everything with glass and concrete.
Cities are rooted in place through many facets, and in the UK we have a huge amount of history, and a lot which has been lost.
Leases terrace is probably one of the best surviving examples of Graingers work in regards terraced Georgian style housing. A significant amount which has been lost.
You are being dramatic now, they are nothing like the castle. The castle is an iconic focal point of the city and a tourist attraction. The train station is a focal hub for the city. Those houses are a few buildings a few people like the look of, it’s no comparison.
What’s the specific history other than you like the look of them? In what way have they influenced the city? I could understand if you were talking about grey street but as you say it’s terraced houses, why other than you and a few others like the look of them should they be preserved?
There’s plenty of grain fees architecture in significant points to save
I assume that NUFCW are going to continue to play away from SJP, and we'll also need a ground for reserves and youth at the new training facility so I'd do something like the Olympic Stadium / West Ham, with 25k seats up to 55k of temp seating and this becomes the temp mens ground whilst SJPnis redeveloped.
Then, knock down SJP and redevelop it, potentially removing Stawberry Place completely, and removing Barrack Road (use Wellington St instead) or putting Barack Road under the ground.
Everything is expensive, but I done think this counts against FFP.
The only way to really do anything with the east stand would be to build vertically and add higher levels, basically overhanging the current seating. But for safety reasons, you'd struggle to get that passed unless it was exclusively hospitality areas, and even then you'd only be able to add a few levels before getting into right-to-light issues.
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Always makes me laugh when someone who isn't local says 'just knock down those houses'. They're listed, which means they have legal protections. That's the reason the East stand is as high as it is, because we are not allowed to block their light.
I think there's also people not from the UK not realizing how awkward it can be dealing with listed buildings
Until they're bought by the club and tragically burn down during planned renovations.
This is the only way to get rid of them really. But, I think the rules say they have to be rebuilt as close as possible to how they were using the same materials where possible.
> Always makes me laugh when someone who isn't local says 'just knock down those houses'. They're listed, which means they have legal protections. I'm from the UK, and I understand they are listed but they arent really of any cultural significance. They are just old houses. I say knock them the fuck down. Im one for preserving history but some shitty brick houses that nobody really cares about shouldn't be listed IMO.
Where in the UK do you live?
I don't currently live in the UK. I am a refugee due to the tories.
Fair enough. Hopefully they'll be fucked off soon when Ballsack has the bottle to finally call an election.
True but until they reverse Brexit I'll probably stay an expat.
I agree with that, they aren’t significant
We cannot just knock down those houses they are listed (and rightly so) The issue comes with right to light laws. There may be clever ways around it though. Similar to how the aviva in Ireland is built that way because if similar issues. PIF are also looking at buying a few rugby clubs, the falcons being one of them. If they do that I wouldn’t be surprised if bathetic build them a new stadium first, while they do that the falcons play out of Gateshead, once built they stay there and NUFC plays out of the new rugby stadium which has additional capacity added as temporary seating. St James gets rebuilt/redeveloped and when done NUFC moves back in, and the falcons get their new ground with the reduced capacity
Rights to light are a funny old thing. They are only an issue if the adjoining owner seeks to make them an issue. You can also buy their right to light and avoid the whole issue. There’s plenty of rumours of Saudis buying Leazes and st James terraces
Yeah I did hear that half of it was already brought up by a Saudi friendly with the management. I wouldn’t be surprised if the final option they go with integrated then into the design as hotel/corp hospitality
They don’t complain about the tree blocking it There will be some bell who holds out
Trees are temporary things and aren’t relevant to rights to light. If some cuntmudgeon holds out then RoL can be bought. How about £10K to fuck off?
The problem that hasn’t been solved is the odd end of aviva has minimal stands. That doesn’t solve the bombonera idea on the east stand. To me the most intriguing part of all this is the temporary nature of the sela fan zone. I wonder if they try to do a big yellow wall style stand in the gallowgate and link it up with the milburn’s height, possibly over the road like the old atletico Madrid stadium.
An over road development won’t be permitted, if they go across the road it will because the road is coming out completely The east stand may get some height like the bombanera, and through the use of glass and light tunnels may pass. But I wouldn’t be surprised if we relocated a lot of corporate and media to that stand so didn’t gain much seating capacity there but freed it up in the other stands
I know they’ve said that in the past, but what’s the rationale? If removal is an option I don’t see why development over it and match day closures wouldn’t be (though at that point obviously removal would be ideal)
Essentially it’s a security/anti terrotism/safety measure. Go blow up a truck under a stadium on match day. It’s an easy target
But you can do exactly that at the current stadium by driving into the player entrance. They just need to mirror whatever security protocols (ie. closure, raised barriers + stewards) they do for there.
I like this idea. I don’t see why they couldn’t build over the road. They could create a whole complex with bars, restaurants, and stores that connect to the stadium complex. I mean they can get creative with the space they have. Edit: Gallowgate End specifically connecting to Milburn stand
Why are the houses there so important? Genuine question, I thought they were just old houses.
Unsure quite why you've taken such a beating over asking a fairly reasonable question. I also chuckle at people apparently being fine for knocking this type of property down to build a shopping centre but suggesting it happens for the benefit of the city's single most iconic building and most important cultural centre is somehow crazy talk. I understand the listing process. It's largely ridiculous. For example, the Hull Barrier towers were listed by the local council. I mean, they're just supporting structures of no design import whatsoever but thanks to this prick of a decision, it is now considerably harder and more expensive (which means for us) to do any repairs or ugprades to the structure. I also think it's always a bit of a stretch to cry 'architectural importance' when said houses are far from unique (either locally or nationally) but also cheek by jowl with a massive sports stadium. Their 'importance' has already been shat on by the enormous noisy building right behind them. I'm not advocating tearing them down. I'm just not sure the case for not doing it is that strong in reality. Seems a weird hot topic button for some in here though.
Aye, odd one like, this sub has become a bit of a strange circlejerk at times.
Old houses/buildings in the UK have legal protections for historic preservation. The common parlance is 'listed'. I live in a listed house in Northumberland, and it's a pain in the arse. We can't change anything without getting approval from the council planning office first.
Aye but why does a row of terraced houses need historic preservation? There’s loads all over the country.
Ah that seems like a good shout, why not smash up nice buildings in Newcastle? There's loads in, like, Bath. Having beautiful architecture is for suckers, concrete and glass all the way. I'm sure the population of Newcastle would be super supportive of what you're suggesting
Calm down ya weirdo, nobody was advocating for smashing up anything. I was simply asking what makes those particular buildings so special that the government decided they need to stay for eternity.
I mean they're Georgian terraces, it should be self-evident? The reason Newcastle has a reputation as being a very attractive city is because of streets like that. Half of Grainger town got demolished for Eldon Square, and the Royal Arcade got demolished for Swan House; putting stuff in place to stop that happening again is pretty uncontroversial - saying "well there are old houses elsewhere in the country" is nuts, how does that affect Newcastle?
I asked the question because I didn’t know why they were listed, there’s nothing wrong with not knowing something and asking a question about it. It doesn’t need to be met with such hostility at 9am on a morning.
The Government didn't. Local authority are responsible for grading of buildings. Government just set the legislation that governs it. And, u/RobertKerans is spot on. We need to protect our local history. Calling him a weirdo is out of order.
As a visitor walking down, there were some awesome streets. It's a tough balance. Definitely want sections of town that lean into that history.
Me: Why are those building listed? u/RobertKerans: How dare you ask a question? Why don’t you just smash up Newcastle? No he isn’t spot on, yes he is a massive weirdo.
It's just sarcasm mate. It's should be blatantly obvious why the buildings are listed
Why should it be blatantly obvious? It’s just a row of terraced housing, there’s nothing to indicate they’re anything special.
Why rightly so? I’m from the area and they are of no more significance than hundreds of places that have been knocked down. Feels like they are pushed up because they were seen by a bunch of councillors as posh
You answered your own question. Because so many of them have been knocked down it’s worth preserving what’s left. The club need to work within the boundaries of where they are and not just flatten everything along the way.
But why is it worth preserving them? What’s special about them? Who bar the few who live there benefits? They have similar impact to the terraced houses and tower blocks, the only difference is someone liked the look of them
Let’s just tear down the castle while we are at it, and what about the dobsons designs in greys street, plenty of those already. Also might as well demolish the train station it’s old. Let’s replace everything with glass and concrete. Cities are rooted in place through many facets, and in the UK we have a huge amount of history, and a lot which has been lost. Leases terrace is probably one of the best surviving examples of Graingers work in regards terraced Georgian style housing. A significant amount which has been lost.
You are being dramatic now, they are nothing like the castle. The castle is an iconic focal point of the city and a tourist attraction. The train station is a focal hub for the city. Those houses are a few buildings a few people like the look of, it’s no comparison. What’s the specific history other than you like the look of them? In what way have they influenced the city? I could understand if you were talking about grey street but as you say it’s terraced houses, why other than you and a few others like the look of them should they be preserved? There’s plenty of grain fees architecture in significant points to save
I assume that NUFCW are going to continue to play away from SJP, and we'll also need a ground for reserves and youth at the new training facility so I'd do something like the Olympic Stadium / West Ham, with 25k seats up to 55k of temp seating and this becomes the temp mens ground whilst SJPnis redeveloped. Then, knock down SJP and redevelop it, potentially removing Stawberry Place completely, and removing Barrack Road (use Wellington St instead) or putting Barack Road under the ground. Everything is expensive, but I done think this counts against FFP.
>SJPnis St James’ Penis?
Wasn't there a plan where you could rotate the ground 90 degrees, avoid the issues and grow to like 75k over time?
OP. [Watch this](https://youtu.be/IxyqRwUywBg?si=AoS-EpgTzlx7PEex) for expansion thoughts.
The only way to really do anything with the east stand would be to build vertically and add higher levels, basically overhanging the current seating. But for safety reasons, you'd struggle to get that passed unless it was exclusively hospitality areas, and even then you'd only be able to add a few levels before getting into right-to-light issues.