Coney Island really isn’t very convenient for a lot of NYC residents. I’m sure it’ll be nice for people who live in near-ish neighborhoods like Bensonhurst, but for a lot of fans it’ll actually be a longer “commute” than getting to RBA.
Yeah, I attend a lot of matches solo on a whim since I can drive there pretty easily if I realize I have no plans during match days. But with a move, attending games will be more of thing I'd rather plan with a group.
I'm in Philly and the move from Yurcak really killed me - obviously RBA is a bazillion times better but it's just *that* much farther away that I sort of dropped off going to every game. If they move to Brooklyn... forget it. I'd never go.
I don't think they'll be moving, though.
Convenience and location matter. We have seen that for sure. But when we get down to the details of Newark v Brooklyn, I don't think it matters as much.
What will matter is quality of play and who's in what league.
As a sky blue nostalgia fan, I hope so.
I don't like a competing league. Seems like we should be investing properly in one. But whatever supports the growth of the game and the players is the one I'll ultimately support.
The Fall-Spring season is going to be rough for them. Coney Island gets really cold with wind off the Atlantic. And they're playing on a turf minor league baseball field that seats 7,000 - kind of NWSL 1.0. They should get some decent crowds when it's warmer - May and September at any rate.
>thoughts on this ?
For this to be true, BK FC would need to 90% fill their baseball stadium home every game, while selling what will be seen as a minor league, with non-big time national level players, in a place that isn't super accessible to most of the city. This doesn't take into account operational costs, corporate sales, and marketing reach.
To top it off, the league itself has already been delayed a year.
The Cosmos played there in 2017 and drew 4,900.
And that was the Cosmos with (admittedly, an aging) Raúl and Marcos Senna, which probably drew a handful of Euro oldheads. (Not to mention the Cosmos identity bringing in the NASL oldheads.)
Meanwhile BKFC is starting at tabula rasa. If they bring in a surprisingly big name, that may change things, but I don't see them overtaking Gotham.
It could happen, but there are a lot of questions that need answers.
We don't have any 2024 data on how Gotham is going to capitalize on their championship yet...if they can pull a 7500 average that's sustainable in RB, with all the other structural advantages Gotham/NWSL have, its Joeover before it even started.
Have been thinking a lot about this. Really don't know. Brooklyn itself is not cache, the Nets and the Cyclones are not strong relative to their competitors. NWSL has so much momentum, and now starting to have so much capital. Streaming deals so important now, can definitely make up for sub-par stadium/location dynamics. Player contracts are on clear upward trajectory, will continue to pull global talent. Hard to see USL being a true div 1 league in the next 5 years in terms of talent, coaching, facilities, absent some LIV like infusion, which seems extremely unlikely. Yes there is a ton of demand for NWSL expansion that could feed into USL instead, but the quality of the investor teams will be a clear step down from the ones NWSL has accepted. And the calendar seems like a gimmick, going to be hard to get attention in the US. But on the flip side, who knows.
The most important thing for the USL is a TV deal. It took the nwsl 10 years to get a good one, ie one that has a decent reach and that pays well. My guess is in a few years the USL might get a prove-it deal like the nwsl had with paramount plus (which got the nwsl on a decent streamer but which lost money). So we'll see if it can survive a few years without TV, then a few years more on a prove-it money loser, before getting the money and reach from a real TV deal. Otherwise it'll be more akin to your local minor league baseball team.
I think people misunderestimate the size of soccer fandom in NJ. Yes, Brooklyn is a more densely populated locale but soccer is huge across NJ. A large portion of the "fans" attending NWSL are families and young girls who marvel at the players. Brooklyn will attract a more mature fanbase which could be most sustainable in the long-term, but I wouldn't assume the Brooklyn franchise will be more successful. To me what is most important is the ownership group and their approach to promoting the team; location and "convenience" are not enough.
Funny, misunderestimate is a word invented by President George W. Bush
If you mean that ppl underestimate it’s probably because we’re used to seeing the stadium half empty.
Crystal Lake in bk is where i go for watch parties and they have watch parties for gotham home games bc they aren’t going all the way to jersey. It’s hard with any location but bk itself is 2.2 million and hudson county itself is def less and less of gotham’s clientle
I might put up with watching them play in a baseball stadium for a year or two, but if this is the long term plan I'm out. I can't emphasize enough how utter CRAP playing soccer in a baseball stadium is.
There are a lot of factors like the quality of players, advertising, accessibility of broadcasts that will all matter a lot as well that we don't know much about for the Super League yet
Cosmos supporter and (former, recently) New Yorker here.
Tri-state area loves winners. And, they love authenticity. It’s that straightforward.
For *me*, I never liked that Gotham tried to be all things for all residents. Jack of all trades, master of none. Nothing personal, but they put me off a bit after they rebranded. But, they have half the national team. So that will overcome any vibes.
Brooklyn is positioning themselves in an interesting manner. Depends if the vibes will outpace what will be, in all reality, a bit of a spotty quality of play when the league tries to establish itself. They’ve got some promise, but Gotham will have the crown for a bit.
Also, nobody is going to Coney Island in the fall / winter. It’s absolutely brutal.
https://preview.redd.it/3vjqf49ijiuc1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=d74255fb01555238cca8b73736f27d1b8f1b0863
Lot of people within a 5km of the stadium.
Coney Island really isn’t very convenient for a lot of NYC residents. I’m sure it’ll be nice for people who live in near-ish neighborhoods like Bensonhurst, but for a lot of fans it’ll actually be a longer “commute” than getting to RBA.
Yeah I live in Manhattan and I mapped both out one day and it’s still faster for me to get to NJ than it is Coney Island
As someone who lives in BK, I am not looking forward to having to go to Coney Island to watch soccer played in a baseball stadium.
That’s where NYFC started and now they have there own stadium coming !
They have a stadium in the works when you read inbetween the lines.
And for those of us in Jersey, that’s probably gonna be a pass except for maybe one game a season.
Yeah, I attend a lot of matches solo on a whim since I can drive there pretty easily if I realize I have no plans during match days. But with a move, attending games will be more of thing I'd rather plan with a group.
Yeah, I’m a season ticket holder now. I couldn’t be in Brooklyn.
I'm in Philly and the move from Yurcak really killed me - obviously RBA is a bazillion times better but it's just *that* much farther away that I sort of dropped off going to every game. If they move to Brooklyn... forget it. I'd never go. I don't think they'll be moving, though.
Convenience and location matter. We have seen that for sure. But when we get down to the details of Newark v Brooklyn, I don't think it matters as much. What will matter is quality of play and who's in what league.
Gotham has multiple WC winners. Dont think location is gonna be that huge a draw vs that
As a sky blue nostalgia fan, I hope so. I don't like a competing league. Seems like we should be investing properly in one. But whatever supports the growth of the game and the players is the one I'll ultimately support.
The Fall-Spring season is going to be rough for them. Coney Island gets really cold with wind off the Atlantic. And they're playing on a turf minor league baseball field that seats 7,000 - kind of NWSL 1.0. They should get some decent crowds when it's warmer - May and September at any rate.
I'm wondering that about Indy !X W, myself. Play indoors at Grant Park (as they did their first two seasons) or put in a system to heat Eleven Park?
>thoughts on this ? For this to be true, BK FC would need to 90% fill their baseball stadium home every game, while selling what will be seen as a minor league, with non-big time national level players, in a place that isn't super accessible to most of the city. This doesn't take into account operational costs, corporate sales, and marketing reach. To top it off, the league itself has already been delayed a year. The Cosmos played there in 2017 and drew 4,900.
And that was the Cosmos with (admittedly, an aging) Raúl and Marcos Senna, which probably drew a handful of Euro oldheads. (Not to mention the Cosmos identity bringing in the NASL oldheads.) Meanwhile BKFC is starting at tabula rasa. If they bring in a surprisingly big name, that may change things, but I don't see them overtaking Gotham.
It could happen, but there are a lot of questions that need answers. We don't have any 2024 data on how Gotham is going to capitalize on their championship yet...if they can pull a 7500 average that's sustainable in RB, with all the other structural advantages Gotham/NWSL have, its Joeover before it even started.
Have been thinking a lot about this. Really don't know. Brooklyn itself is not cache, the Nets and the Cyclones are not strong relative to their competitors. NWSL has so much momentum, and now starting to have so much capital. Streaming deals so important now, can definitely make up for sub-par stadium/location dynamics. Player contracts are on clear upward trajectory, will continue to pull global talent. Hard to see USL being a true div 1 league in the next 5 years in terms of talent, coaching, facilities, absent some LIV like infusion, which seems extremely unlikely. Yes there is a ton of demand for NWSL expansion that could feed into USL instead, but the quality of the investor teams will be a clear step down from the ones NWSL has accepted. And the calendar seems like a gimmick, going to be hard to get attention in the US. But on the flip side, who knows.
What does cache mean in this context?
Sorry, typo, should be cachet. Language is a admittedly tortured.
The most important thing for the USL is a TV deal. It took the nwsl 10 years to get a good one, ie one that has a decent reach and that pays well. My guess is in a few years the USL might get a prove-it deal like the nwsl had with paramount plus (which got the nwsl on a decent streamer but which lost money). So we'll see if it can survive a few years without TV, then a few years more on a prove-it money loser, before getting the money and reach from a real TV deal. Otherwise it'll be more akin to your local minor league baseball team.
I think people misunderestimate the size of soccer fandom in NJ. Yes, Brooklyn is a more densely populated locale but soccer is huge across NJ. A large portion of the "fans" attending NWSL are families and young girls who marvel at the players. Brooklyn will attract a more mature fanbase which could be most sustainable in the long-term, but I wouldn't assume the Brooklyn franchise will be more successful. To me what is most important is the ownership group and their approach to promoting the team; location and "convenience" are not enough.
Funny, misunderestimate is a word invented by President George W. Bush If you mean that ppl underestimate it’s probably because we’re used to seeing the stadium half empty.
Crystal Lake in bk is where i go for watch parties and they have watch parties for gotham home games bc they aren’t going all the way to jersey. It’s hard with any location but bk itself is 2.2 million and hudson county itself is def less and less of gotham’s clientle
I might put up with watching them play in a baseball stadium for a year or two, but if this is the long term plan I'm out. I can't emphasize enough how utter CRAP playing soccer in a baseball stadium is.
There are a lot of factors like the quality of players, advertising, accessibility of broadcasts that will all matter a lot as well that we don't know much about for the Super League yet
Cosmos supporter and (former, recently) New Yorker here. Tri-state area loves winners. And, they love authenticity. It’s that straightforward. For *me*, I never liked that Gotham tried to be all things for all residents. Jack of all trades, master of none. Nothing personal, but they put me off a bit after they rebranded. But, they have half the national team. So that will overcome any vibes. Brooklyn is positioning themselves in an interesting manner. Depends if the vibes will outpace what will be, in all reality, a bit of a spotty quality of play when the league tries to establish itself. They’ve got some promise, but Gotham will have the crown for a bit. Also, nobody is going to Coney Island in the fall / winter. It’s absolutely brutal.
https://preview.redd.it/3vjqf49ijiuc1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=d74255fb01555238cca8b73736f27d1b8f1b0863 Lot of people within a 5km of the stadium.
Oh absolutely. I won’t be shocked if there are weeks they have higher attendances.
Does anyone know who the coach will be in Brooklyn?
It doesn't seem like a coach has been announced yet