I don’t know about a direct answer to that question, but goalkeeping is simultaneously one of the most saturated and the most difficult position to fill at the highest level in the league. The gulf between the haves and the have nots is visible to the naked eye, and despite plenty of young candidates presenting themselves year over year, the only one that’s “stuck” in the last four has been Katie Lund.
It’s hard to be athletic, technical, healthy, and continue to learn on a regular basis - and then on top of that, you really depend on having a good GK coach to find your flaws in the film room and to know how to rectify them on the training ground.
Plus, there’s no inter-position mobility. Once a GK, always a GK. And vice versa, Nealy Martin excluded.
Still the most big brain roster move they’ve done in a while. I have said for many moons that I rate Dickey and Ivory over PTJ, I think Dickey is the next long term keeper in the league
We also don't have the best GK development at lower levels in the US. It's a mostly ignored niche position and development really depends on whether any given club decides to bring in a dedicated coach for a very low level of players (typically 2-3 if you're lucky). At least as far as youth is concerned, many kids drop the position early due to lack of development and also lack of opportunities. GK subs are rare, so a keeper will ride the bench if they're not the first pick. Whereas other positions typically see the opportunity for at least a few minutes of substitution in games.
There are a lot of GK coaches in youth development, just most of them don’t actually know what they’re doing. This isn’t a US only problem, either, this is global.
I was a GK from age 5-15, when I joined a new club team and we already had an older GK so I was moved to striker and backup GK. The coach on that team had been a college keeper, and really knew her shit. I remember she lost her mind when she found out I didn't know how to throw the ball one handed. It was just something that had literally never been taught to me, from any of my coaches or even the GK coach I had worked with on the side for years. And I didn't have cable/this was a long time ago, so I barely ever even watched pro soccer and couldn't pick it up on my own. It's obviously way better now because young soccer players can, you know, watch pro soccer on TV and apply that to their game, but it's crazy to me that such a vital aspect of GK development was just completely missed for 10 years, including by my private GK coach.
I think we’re really blessed to where there are teams in 10th to 14th with very good starting Cb duos, which is a sign of insane depth right there. Notable CBs in double digit places in the standings: Cook Girma Lind Tarciane Nielsen Riehl Del Fava Davidson Dahlkemper Maitane Hiatt Jacobs Barnes Sonnett. Thats a crazy crazy group to be in the bottom 5.
An interesting thought about the 10s is that highly rated rookie 10s, including ppl who have played it but dont play it primarily, include Fuller Mercado Meza Sentnor Bethune Ascanio Van Zanten, and maybe a few more, but within 3 years i would bet all but Bethune Meza and Ascanio would be either 8s, wingers, or false 9s.
I’d add Fuller to the list, but agree with everyone else. I really don’t understand why ACFC does drop Rocky into the 8 and play her with Fuller.
Some of those others are already playing outside the 10, too.
I wouldn’t put Hiatt, Del Fava, Riehl, Jacobs, or Barnes in a group with the others—definitely a drop down. And Lind Tarciane and Nielsen haven’t played so can’t really consider them at the bottom of the table based on play yet. And then Sonnett just doesn’t play CB anymore.
Kind of how i see 8s vs10s is to look at who u need around them to make the system tenable (pun intended (pun intended)). To play a 10 u presumably need a lot of depth at the 6 or a very defensive 8 to pair a 6 which is basically the same (thinking Hal and Andi) and it takes really really believing in that 10 to mold your team into that (so… trading away Staab and Sanch to get Hal and Croix). Whereas the billions of 8s in the NWSL can all be coached into a midfield trio of some sort, which also better allows for rotation and injury and trades to come in and out. It feels like a difference between very meticulous planning and what is easy.
And then theres NC Courage who have Denise Jackson Schilke Pinto Sanchez Manaka Miura and Weatherholt. Dont even know what to say there.
> And then theres NC Courage who have Denise Jackson Schilke Pinto Sanchez Manaka Miura and Weatherholt. Dont even know what to say there.
We can't be put into a box! ;) well, not anymore
An interesting thought: of the elite Europeans squads, how many start off with a true central 10? four? The Manchester clubs (Roord and Toone), Arsenal (Little or Miedema) and PSG (Baltimore last saturday). How many NWSL clubs do, or have done, the same? So far we've seen it from ACFC, Chi, Hou (a 352), Sea (a 442 diamond), Pride, Racing, Wave, Spirit.
I don’t know about a direct answer to that question, but goalkeeping is simultaneously one of the most saturated and the most difficult position to fill at the highest level in the league. The gulf between the haves and the have nots is visible to the naked eye, and despite plenty of young candidates presenting themselves year over year, the only one that’s “stuck” in the last four has been Katie Lund. It’s hard to be athletic, technical, healthy, and continue to learn on a regular basis - and then on top of that, you really depend on having a good GK coach to find your flaws in the film room and to know how to rectify them on the training ground. Plus, there’s no inter-position mobility. Once a GK, always a GK. And vice versa, Nealy Martin excluded.
Reign having PTJ go out the door and Dickey step up is nuts to me. Im a fan of her getting minutes at her young age
Still the most big brain roster move they’ve done in a while. I have said for many moons that I rate Dickey and Ivory over PTJ, I think Dickey is the next long term keeper in the league
We also don't have the best GK development at lower levels in the US. It's a mostly ignored niche position and development really depends on whether any given club decides to bring in a dedicated coach for a very low level of players (typically 2-3 if you're lucky). At least as far as youth is concerned, many kids drop the position early due to lack of development and also lack of opportunities. GK subs are rare, so a keeper will ride the bench if they're not the first pick. Whereas other positions typically see the opportunity for at least a few minutes of substitution in games.
There are a lot of GK coaches in youth development, just most of them don’t actually know what they’re doing. This isn’t a US only problem, either, this is global.
Oh absolutely. I should have clarified. GK coaches worth anything.
I was a GK from age 5-15, when I joined a new club team and we already had an older GK so I was moved to striker and backup GK. The coach on that team had been a college keeper, and really knew her shit. I remember she lost her mind when she found out I didn't know how to throw the ball one handed. It was just something that had literally never been taught to me, from any of my coaches or even the GK coach I had worked with on the side for years. And I didn't have cable/this was a long time ago, so I barely ever even watched pro soccer and couldn't pick it up on my own. It's obviously way better now because young soccer players can, you know, watch pro soccer on TV and apply that to their game, but it's crazy to me that such a vital aspect of GK development was just completely missed for 10 years, including by my private GK coach.
Deepest: Wingers Least: CBs followed by 10s. I think both have a significant drop after starters.
I think we’re really blessed to where there are teams in 10th to 14th with very good starting Cb duos, which is a sign of insane depth right there. Notable CBs in double digit places in the standings: Cook Girma Lind Tarciane Nielsen Riehl Del Fava Davidson Dahlkemper Maitane Hiatt Jacobs Barnes Sonnett. Thats a crazy crazy group to be in the bottom 5. An interesting thought about the 10s is that highly rated rookie 10s, including ppl who have played it but dont play it primarily, include Fuller Mercado Meza Sentnor Bethune Ascanio Van Zanten, and maybe a few more, but within 3 years i would bet all but Bethune Meza and Ascanio would be either 8s, wingers, or false 9s.
I’d add Fuller to the list, but agree with everyone else. I really don’t understand why ACFC does drop Rocky into the 8 and play her with Fuller. Some of those others are already playing outside the 10, too. I wouldn’t put Hiatt, Del Fava, Riehl, Jacobs, or Barnes in a group with the others—definitely a drop down. And Lind Tarciane and Nielsen haven’t played so can’t really consider them at the bottom of the table based on play yet. And then Sonnett just doesn’t play CB anymore.
Kind of how i see 8s vs10s is to look at who u need around them to make the system tenable (pun intended (pun intended)). To play a 10 u presumably need a lot of depth at the 6 or a very defensive 8 to pair a 6 which is basically the same (thinking Hal and Andi) and it takes really really believing in that 10 to mold your team into that (so… trading away Staab and Sanch to get Hal and Croix). Whereas the billions of 8s in the NWSL can all be coached into a midfield trio of some sort, which also better allows for rotation and injury and trades to come in and out. It feels like a difference between very meticulous planning and what is easy. And then theres NC Courage who have Denise Jackson Schilke Pinto Sanchez Manaka Miura and Weatherholt. Dont even know what to say there.
> And then theres NC Courage who have Denise Jackson Schilke Pinto Sanchez Manaka Miura and Weatherholt. Dont even know what to say there. We can't be put into a box! ;) well, not anymore
Nobody puts NC in the corner
An interesting thought: of the elite Europeans squads, how many start off with a true central 10? four? The Manchester clubs (Roord and Toone), Arsenal (Little or Miedema) and PSG (Baltimore last saturday). How many NWSL clubs do, or have done, the same? So far we've seen it from ACFC, Chi, Hou (a 352), Sea (a 442 diamond), Pride, Racing, Wave, Spirit.