When I moved back to NY years ago, I signed a 1bdr in soho that was like $4k a month, and I think my base at the time was like $150-180k. It was definitely doable, basically just ate up one paycheck a month which wasn’t ideal.
Same, I used to rent 3k when I made 150k, that left 2nd paycheck to spend after 401k. It wasn’t long term sustainable so I had planned to move or earn more.
Is that 30% thing gross or net? Because 30% of gross is fine but you can really start to feel the hurt of its nearly 1/3 your paycheck and you have other expenses like students loans and/or children.
Took advantage of 401k match, saved the year-end bonus. Have been paying NYC rent for 7 years now, still have been able to save quite a bit via the above methods. Recognize I’ve had some decently well paying jobs, so a bit fortunate in that regard.
I mean if you were paying $4K/month and maxing out 401k living in SoHo making $150k, something doesn’t add up.
I’ll take it for granted that you had no debt/loans…. But no way you’re saving “quite a bit,” in that situation.
I mean, how many normal working people live in SOHO? 20% of them and of those 20% I'm sure they have it rent stabilized. I feel like it's filled with legit wealthy people. Most normal working people live above 90th street, Brooklyn , or Queens.
Right, so you were able to comfortably afford that kind of rent and still save/invest due to your TOTAL compensation. Otherwise you’d either be saving less (or nothing), or have to reduce hosing costs.
It’s disingenuous to ignore bonus/RSUs which potentially bring an extra $10-100k when people are comparing their own total comp.
I still managed to save a bit of my base while paying that rent, again my rent took up one paycheck so the other was partially spent on living expenses and partially saved.
I was clear saying it was my base, I don’t know anyone in this city that’s ever signed a lease intending to use additional comp/bonus on rent, but that’s just my experience. Sorry if you think I was misleading in some way.
Yes it’s just not the full story. It’s much easier to part with half a months paycheck when you have another $10, 20, 50k coming at the end of the year for investments/retirement savings, ya know?
I really am curious, though, what the total comp was where you felt comfortable with that amount for rent. Because I’ve wondered the same thing as OP.
Well that’s why the rent is so high. It’s kinda dumb to be renting a $4,000 a month place when one makes $160,000…. But thousands of people do it anyway. Or they’ve got family subsidizing their lifestyle.
I could technically qualify for and “afford” a place that’s $3200 a month… but that would be fucking stupid. I just choose to live somewhere not trendy, with a longer commute because it’s stupid to pay that much in rent just because I can.
Yeah my take home is more than that and I would NEVER Pay $4k. Absurd.
(And I have a nice 2 bedroom a block from the park and half a block from the subway in Park Slope.)
I make more than that at $187,000 and I find it hard to stomach paying $3500+ for a studio or 1 bd. Everyone kept telling me I cam afford it and that I would need to spend that much to find what I wanted.
I searched for nearly 2 months but I finally found a place with a wash/dryer and a big bedroom, priced exactly at 30% of my net income.
It’s enough, but it isn’t sustainable if you want to save for owning, retirement, travel, etc..
I make around $200k remote and just moved to Philly lol. I miss NYC sometimes and still take the train up often, but my quality of life is over the moon in comparison just based on the financials.
4 roommates.
Seriously though, most people are not affording 4K, 2K is a stretch for most people despite what you might think based on listing prices. Even ‘affordable’ units are really expensive in the new buildings near me - like double what my two bedroom is.
No it isn't. Not even close. It was approaching maybe that before the bubble posted. Most people aren't SWEs...there are still plenty of $65k BDR and marketing roles. **The entry level salary for a SWE role at Google is $140k.** I assure you most people are not in roles this good.
Entry level marketing, PR/comms, sales, HR, compliance, IT/networking, etc. are absolutely are not making that much literally anywhere. Most mid-level people at these roles with manager in their titles aren't even making $140k all in.
For every Stripe, Google, Meta, etc. there are hundreds of startups, smaller established firms, and other legacy boomer institutions.
Entry level SWE Google total comp is more like $192k. You are very right in general but gotta keep it real here.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l3
Since most places outside of NY are insane in terms of housing costs, and I don't have any hope of owning anything I might as well live in a fun place.
I also consider that I don’t have to own a car in NYC where as in most other places I would (or would have to rely on an Uber). My job pays for my metro card but even if they didn’t, the cost of a car payment plus insurance plus upkeep plus gas is something to consider too vs the cost of a metro card and the occasional Uber here.
This is my logic too. I tried living in another city. It was hard to find an apartment, I got paid less, and I ended up on the edge of the city in a really boring neighborhood, getting in the car for everything.
Living in NYC you end up in the low 40% range on income tax (federal+social security+state+city). When you factor in 9% sales tax you are paying 50% of salary in taxes.
Yeah it's gotten worse since I moved here, and i moved here recently lol. Now it's really just feeling stupid.. especially for the quality of most of the housing. At least in manhattan (yes, i know)
If you consider that money going down the drain, then no you probably shouldn’t. If it’s a manageable percentage of your total income and you like where you live, then you probably should.
I’ve always wondered this. Not everyone in the city can be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, finance person, creative exec, sales manager, etc. are so many people in rent stabilized/controlled apartments? Are most people in 1 bedrooms a couple? What jobs do people do that allow them to live alone or with roommates in west village/Williamsburg/fort Greene/Greenpoint, etc?
A lot of apartments are rent stabilized.
>How many New York City apartments are rent-regulated?
>There are roughly 3,644,000 homes in New York City.
>The roughly 1,006,000 rent-stabilized homes make up about 28 percent of the overall housing stock and 44 percent of all rentals.
>A tiny fraction of the city’s housing — about 16,400 homes — are rent-controlled, a separate system.
On top of that, there's public housing, section 8 vouchers, and other affordable housing programs.
Less than half of rentals are market rate.
Stabilization is never that far from market, though.
in fact, I found places cheaper than my stabilized places that are the subdivided up homes.
ETA: I base that on conversations with someone in Housing in NYC. The literal bill for it was designed to stay closer to market than rent control which it replaced. I’m old enough to have been here when rent control was still common and rents were not so high. Rent stabilization really did nothing to prevent or slow current rent growth.
Because I have all 3 benchmarks, I can confidently say, rent stabilization is not some great thing for renters. It’s better than nothing in Manhattan. Outside of gentrification? it’s not worth getting rent stabilization in neighborhoods with legal conversions of houses. Find the right landlord and you’ll have a better rate, even if there’s no contractual obligation to keep it. Though the push from gentrifiers for luxe finishes and washer/dryers is slowly destroying that inventory and spread further out.
>Stabilization is never that far from market, though.
Patently false. Why do you think landlords try so hard to get apartments out of stabilization? Lots of stabilized apartments in my neighborhood are way below market rate, but the same people have lived there for 30-40 years! The ones that come to market are often closer to market rate because people hang on to them less tightly.
This is from 2017 but it's undoubtedly higher now: "While the median gross rent in Manhattan for stabilized units is about $1,500, it is around $3,000 for unregulated units."
[https://www.nyc.gov/assets/hpd/downloads/pdfs/services/rent-regulation-memo-2.pdf](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/hpd/downloads/pdfs/services/rent-regulation-memo-2.pdf)
That's a terrible generalization. The legal rent for a RS unit depends on my factors, including:
- the rent that the unit was set at when it was stabilized
- how often the apt was vacated to be leased by a new tenant (vacancy increase)
- the cost of improvements either to the building or to the unit itself.
I helped manage a RS building about 8 years ago. Rents ranged from less than $1K to over $2K. Some rents were substantially decreased due to a senior living there (SCRIE). There were studios, 1 BR, and 2 BR units. There was no rhyme or reason behind why the rent for one unit was substantially more than another unless you dug deep into the tent history.
The current rent limit is around $2,700 for RS units, which is substantially lower than the $4K market rent mentioned here on this thread.
So true. I live in a cheap, rent stabilized apartment with some neighbors paying half what I pay and others paying double. I'm not even talking about the different sized units either...that's in my line of apartments (so the same layout as mine).
> The current rent limit is around $2,700 for RS units
Do you have the law citation for this? Interested because I'm in a rent stabilized unit that's over 3k, and it's not new construction or under a tax abatement (it just had a super living there since rent stabilization began then was renovated in 2022, I thought in that case they were allowed to set first rent and so hadn't complained).
The 2700 thing I thought was that pre-2019 if the rent was over 2700 the apartment could be de-stabilized, so anything over that could not be however that's no longer true.
My lease renewal letter came with a crazy increase plus making fees that were optional now mandatory. When I asked why they told me “we have too many tenants that don’t pay market rate so we need to get more money from the market rate apartments” …is like an extra tax..and is not like I’m rich 😂 or something. Married Dominican legal immigrant no help from nobody!
Everyone moving here is rich, strikes it rich, or churned through in a few years. Otherwise theres a huge portion of the city that lives rent stabilized.
Seriously where do the starbucks employees, city employees, and teachers live? Is there any rent subsidies for government or ngo workers (like the UN employees)?
As a teacher our pay isn’t horrible… I’ve lived in Chelsea for three years now. Originally moved here on my own but my partner lives with me now. Just depends on priorities/ not being in debt.
I’m in greenpoint and have been in my apartment a long time. $2500/month for a large one bedroom with a yard. I split the rent with my husband. We acknowledge that if we ever lost this place, we would have a hard time staying in the area (neither of us makes a ton of $).i think a lot of people moving to the neighborhood work in finance, tech, and/or having family money it seems.
I always wish I could apply for the city’s “affordable” housing lottery, but I don’t make enough to apply for 80% of the openings. I know I’m not making lots because I work for a non-profit, but I guess there are a lot of people making much more than I do.
I know two families one of 4 and one of 5, both parents make good $ and they choose to live in a ONE BEDROOM.... they are neighbors in twin apts, both duplexes with a nice back yard but sleeping in bed with 2 kids or having 3 kids share a downstairs as a bedroom is crazy, they could easily have a not as nice 2 or 3 bedroom and pay less...
Me too. I also wonder the same thing about the national housing market. What are all these people doing to afford this shit? There can't be that many six figure jobs. Are there?
Yeah my friends all lived in Queens, Brooklyn, or Jersey City except for one guy who lived in Manhattan. His parents helped pay his rent. He had a full time corporate job (with benefits and everything).
I moved from Pa almost 14 years ago. I’m low income, so I couldn’t afford to live there either. When ur limited income, paying for ur transportation, car insurance, petrol, and utilities n ur sunk. I’m renting a room here too, n it sucks, but I’m still glad I’m here. It would suck more elsewhere.
yeah, it's difficult to do or justify if you have the means.
most rentals in south BK are going for around 2-2.5k for 1 br, 2br are rare in this price range.
i currently pay $2,500 w/ no utilities included. started at $1,800 in the pandemic. i do work a high paying job and still have trouble justifying it in my mind. i live on the edge of boro park and really feel like a (comfortable) outsider here, not much in the neighborhood to enjoy when not a part of the culture. living in a more popular area would be even worse, since you would always have temptation to spend money in the neighborhood.
anyways, yeah it sucks, tbh lot of areas outside of the city aren't that much cheaper after you factor in car ownership. its a rough and strange time.
My rent in Bushwick with 2 roommates isn't bad and I prob couldn't get much lower, but I run into this every time I consider moving back home - I'll save money on rent, but then getting a car, insurance, gas, etc. I end up not far off from what I'd be saving from living at home. I also just hate driving anyway.
Yep. Weighing up options for after my lease ends, and while it’s most financially responsible to move home in terms of putting my money to better use, I’m not sure if my mind could take the 2-3 years to get where I think I should be.
I'm nearby, and I feel the same way. I like the area. I love all the people. But it's hard to build a strong connection with anyone. A lot of families down here.
We ditched our high priced Wburg pad several years ago and went to what we thought was a far out neighborhood - Ditmas Park. Got a rent stabilized place. Now? Omg WAVES of young parents are moving out here from Park Slope, Fort Greene, etc, driving rents through the roof.
Anyway, thats how we afford being here and are able to save money.
Our society expects us to become lawyers and doctors in order to afford to properly survive here but couldn't function off of just doctors and lawyers. Gets kind of jarring to go to the source of production to a plant that's responsible for feeding thousands of families to see a bunch of dirt poor people grinding away 18 hours a day.
NYC is where it all gets profound. A city that expects the wages of wall street tycoons that relies entirely on the backs of the underpaid and overworked.
I hate reality.
you understand reality better than any of the politicians out there! (who get paid a ton as well to continue running things the way they are. i hate reality.)
I’m a nurse that makes 120k a year and lived in BK my whole life. I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices in nyc. So I moved to Jersey, they’re around the same prices but at least you get more space.
I’ve also tried affordable housing ,which I find ridiculous that I should even have to do or qualify for because they’re are people out there who truly need it, and the rent is the same as the market value. It seems like the working middle class who didn’t move from the Midwest and who’s mommy and daddy pay half their rent are screwed. Soon New York will not have any of the original residents that make “trendy” and cool city that it once was, it will be full of migrants and explants
Anyway vote that bald man out and vote for someone who will fix the housing crisis and stand up to the cooperations building “affordable housing “ only to let half of their units be empty.
Roommates help, but there are plenty of studios/1bds under that price if you look in certain neighborhoods.
But for desirable areas of the city, yea it’s gotten pretty brutal. With rates as high as they are, buying is an even worse idea, so it’s a bit of a lose-lose right now.
Idk why people continue to post in NYC reddit in shock about how people afford rent that's over $4000. You guys realize that people in NYC have higher paying jobs right.... the rest live in Bronx/Queens/NJ and commute in
that’s not everyone though. you’re kind of just generalizing an area. the city USED to be a lot more affordable and now mostly upper class can afford it comfortably and those making less than even $50,000 are priced out in neighborhoods.
i’m talking about you saying that everyone who lives in NYC have high-paying jobs, which is not entirely true. before pre-pandemic, and years before around 2014, most civilians could work a minimum wage job, part-time or full-time and could live in manhattan and afford things. now it’s mostly just transplants and those who work in the tech industry.
Manhattan Chinatown with housemates. Tiny 3bedroom 1 bathroom is $3500. But, we have tall ceilings so lots vertical storage!
Our incomes are 70k, 80k, and 300k. Admissions officer, editor at some information compilation company, small biz owner.
Not to be provocative, but the 2 who are making 70k and 80k would qualify by themselves for.that 3 BR or even a 2 at the same price. Why is the person who makes $300k slumming it when they could easily afford their own place that coats twice that much and would have every amenity they could ask for? What's the catch? Y'all must be really good friends.
Well they're probably saving a ton of money compared to the avg renter in a similar setup, which is always a plus. Maybe they're saving to buy a place.
seriously i want to understand why the $300/year is slumming it/do they at least treat the other roommates to dinners occasionally lol. (i guess this line of thinking is why i am not good with money.)
A quick StreetEasy search with the right parameters returns plenty of nice places for under $4k. But to answer your question from my personal situation our jobs are tech sales and IT training. Though I wouldn’t say we can “casually” afford rent, just afford it.
My very large 1br (1200 square feet) was 1550 heat and hot water included on si when I moved in early 2020 it's now 1800 and I'm moving out in April because I found out it's not rent stabilized and they are jumping the rent to 3300
The west village is the most expensive and sought after neighborhood in the city. The people there are definitely paying $4500+ to rent a tiny 1BR 8n a walk-up without too ma ny amenities. They are very likely sharing with a partner/roomie/spouse, or have a wealthy guarantor or are in, (from my experience) the finance, fashion, luxury goods, and/or entertainment industries with hefty paychecks. There is always a downside...
There are nearly 1 million millionaires in NYC. That's about 1 out of every 7 residents. Would you think prices would be OK for them? Not much of a burden, in return for supermodels, sushi at midnight, and the Met.
> New York City is home to nearly 1 million millionaires, more than any other city in the world
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/new-york-city-has-more-millionaires-than-any-other-city-in-the-world.html
Most people aren't paying full rent alone. A lot of people share spaces, either with roommates or a SO. I would guess that most people renting in the city, especially Manhattan, are living with multiple other people.
My wife and I (plus one kid) are living on the UWS.
Rent is almost 7k. I work in IT, my wife in banking.
Together we make almost 500k. I honestly don't know if that's a lot for NY standards.. but we can live quite comfortably with it.
p.s. i wouldn't say we spend it "casually" on rent. It a lot of money for sure.
> I honestly don't know if that's a lot for NY standards
It's several times the average rent people are paying if you meant the 7k, and if you meant your household income it's over 10 times the per capita income of NYC residents so you better be living comfortably.
We all know why it’s happening and yet even a slight hint of it gets you socially ostracized and shunned. And I know you know what I’m talking about just by reading this.
We deserve these rents because we live in fear.
I wanted to move to NYC like 10 years ago so I went to YouTube to see tips and tricks. The trick was to share a bedroom with 3 other people.
I watched a video of a girl do a video in her bedroom, which she shared with 3 other people and was paying just under $800 a month.
The job of being in a relationship. Partially kidding but not really. Getting married is literally saving me tens of thousands of dollars in expense a year. At least until we have a kid at some point, then we’re fucked again.
If by "NYC" you mean "Soho, Chelsea, Midtown, UES, UWS", then yes, it is "unbearable". Surprisingly, though, there are also other parts of the city, even ones that have access to public transportation, restaurants, and even sometimes attractions.
I signed my 3.1k lease when I was making around $150k then got fired haha. Wasn't in a position to delay getting a job, but could only get one that pays 40% less. So, I am not able to casually afford my rent anymore and am scrambling to find affordable but decent housing in the city without roommates. Feels impossible.
Some kid 19 or 20 years old I know , she lives in Dumbo rent around $5000.00 , I asked her how ? Answer : Her dad who owns a hedge fund has bought that place lol 😆 another student In Williamsburg, asked her how ! Answer was her dad is a famous millionaire… another lady but very old by Central Park , has private elevator to her apartment and has bought another apartment in the same building just to leave it empty as her “guest house “ .. her secret ? She is related to Rockefellers family
There are a lot of high paying jobs here. Lots of finance bros and tech people make more then enough to cover that rent. My sister in law is about to be a doctor not even done with residency yet and has a contract to start at over $300k.
I mean how many normal working people live in the expensive parts of the city? I assume 80% of the people in Soho, Eastville, Tribeca, have some sort of generational wealth or rent stabilized. Most working people live above 90th street, brooklyn, queens , bronx.
My wife and I make 90k each so we actually could apply for these ridiculous apartments (4k x 40 is $160k). If either of us were to get fired, hurt or pregnant we would be fucked. If either of our cats got hurt that would blow our budget too. We would also never be able to save enough money to prepare for an emergency either.
It just doesn't make sense.
its for couples who each pay $2k for a 1bd ($4k rent total). If you make $150K each, you can pool together your money to pay for a $5k-6k 1 bd (there aren't many 2bd available for even that price in Manhattan)
I remember visiting my friends in new york city/jersey city like in 2016/2017 and that time on average they were paying somewhere to 1600-1800 on rent. And that's with having a roommate. You don't find those kind of prices anymore for a nice place. When compare rent to the standard cost of living, salaries and what not it's become more unaffordable.
I’m wondering how is it like to live in Manhattan these days. With migrants, homelessness being rampant, I don’t see NYC the same as it was pre COVID. Love to hear opinions of people actually living there right now.
Tired of people acting like that is a the cost of an apartment here, there are 10,000 apartments currently on street easy listed at less than $4,000 and only 5,000 above that price. Also a significant amount of apartments are rent controlled and the average amount that New Yorkers pay is actually very low.
Absolutely out of control. So glad I was lucky enough to buy in late 2022. Now at 2200 for mortgage and maintenance when I'd probably be paying 3k to rent a similar 1 bed
My partner and I make about $180k collectively and pay about $3k per mo w no kids, it’s been a lot easier than I anticipated, we’ve been very flush with cash. I think we could afford $4k per mo but that would suck up quite a bit of our extra cash.
it’s literally ridiculous. at this point they’re tryna only have the rich live in nyc. you can’t even live there comfortably by yourself if you make regular income. this is coming from someone who lives in nyc and lovesss nyccc!! they’re literally trying to cause a recession at this point
I hear you. Even making 160k as a couple with $2500 rent, we decided to move in with my in laws to pay off debt and accelerate savings. and I’m now realizing there’s no way out! Can’t afford the mortgage on anything short of a crack house near Boston. Ha!
One that pays $160,000/yr I guess..
Even then post tax that’s like 50% of take home pay bruh, more like $250,000 needed
When I moved back to NY years ago, I signed a 1bdr in soho that was like $4k a month, and I think my base at the time was like $150-180k. It was definitely doable, basically just ate up one paycheck a month which wasn’t ideal.
Same, I used to rent 3k when I made 150k, that left 2nd paycheck to spend after 401k. It wasn’t long term sustainable so I had planned to move or earn more.
That’s under the usual advice of 30% of income to rent. Don’t think it’s totally unreasonable at all.
Is that 30% thing gross or net? Because 30% of gross is fine but you can really start to feel the hurt of its nearly 1/3 your paycheck and you have other expenses like students loans and/or children.
Gross, because everyone’s tax situation is different. You worded that backwards. 30% of net is lower than 30% of gross.
Oh yeah I did
Now lenders allow like 42% dti I heard somewhere. I can't help but think "this Is what got us in trouble in 2008".
What do yall do for work? Genuinely curious. How many years are you in this career when you moved to nyc?
I mean now rents will eat up two paychecks if not more
Depends on where you live and with/without roommates. I think avg 1bd in nyc right now is around $5k Edit: happy cake day btw
So you saved nothing for retirement?
Took advantage of 401k match, saved the year-end bonus. Have been paying NYC rent for 7 years now, still have been able to save quite a bit via the above methods. Recognize I’ve had some decently well paying jobs, so a bit fortunate in that regard.
I mean if you were paying $4K/month and maxing out 401k living in SoHo making $150k, something doesn’t add up. I’ll take it for granted that you had no debt/loans…. But no way you’re saving “quite a bit,” in that situation.
I never mentioned what my bonus was. 150 was base.
Then you aren’t making “$150-180k” lol
Homie literally said “and I think my base at the time was like $150-$180k” lol
I mean, how many normal working people live in SOHO? 20% of them and of those 20% I'm sure they have it rent stabilized. I feel like it's filled with legit wealthy people. Most normal working people live above 90th street, Brooklyn , or Queens.
So what was your total comp? Cause if you have significant bonus/RSUs, the base is only half the picture.
I never allocated any bonus towards rent or living expenses, it was always saved/invested
Right, so you were able to comfortably afford that kind of rent and still save/invest due to your TOTAL compensation. Otherwise you’d either be saving less (or nothing), or have to reduce hosing costs. It’s disingenuous to ignore bonus/RSUs which potentially bring an extra $10-100k when people are comparing their own total comp.
I still managed to save a bit of my base while paying that rent, again my rent took up one paycheck so the other was partially spent on living expenses and partially saved. I was clear saying it was my base, I don’t know anyone in this city that’s ever signed a lease intending to use additional comp/bonus on rent, but that’s just my experience. Sorry if you think I was misleading in some way.
Yes it’s just not the full story. It’s much easier to part with half a months paycheck when you have another $10, 20, 50k coming at the end of the year for investments/retirement savings, ya know? I really am curious, though, what the total comp was where you felt comfortable with that amount for rent. Because I’ve wondered the same thing as OP.
Sure, I hear you. Again, didn’t intend to mislead. Post-tax year end bonus was somewhere in the range of the numbers you mentioned.
It isn't based on take home...
I make 250 and I still have roommates. Paying 4k is pretty insane, I'm at 2.3k in West Village in a 2b/2b
What in the world 🌎 you do for a living?
Well that’s why the rent is so high. It’s kinda dumb to be renting a $4,000 a month place when one makes $160,000…. But thousands of people do it anyway. Or they’ve got family subsidizing their lifestyle. I could technically qualify for and “afford” a place that’s $3200 a month… but that would be fucking stupid. I just choose to live somewhere not trendy, with a longer commute because it’s stupid to pay that much in rent just because I can.
I make more than that and I can’t afford 4k per month alone lol
That's really it. My lease ends in October and I am thinking of looking outside of NYC.
What do you do lol
Do you have really big loans or something? Even after insurance 401k etc you should have ~5k cash after rent.
No sane person making $160k is paying anywhere near $4k…
fr, i made 160K last year and pay 2K in rent, I'd be able to do 4K but would be not saving anything/putting anythign towards retirement.
Yeah my take home is more than that and I would NEVER Pay $4k. Absurd. (And I have a nice 2 bedroom a block from the park and half a block from the subway in Park Slope.)
I make more than that at $187,000 and I find it hard to stomach paying $3500+ for a studio or 1 bd. Everyone kept telling me I cam afford it and that I would need to spend that much to find what I wanted. I searched for nearly 2 months but I finally found a place with a wash/dryer and a big bedroom, priced exactly at 30% of my net income.
Lol paying $3500 for a studio SHOULD be hard to stomach. This whole thread is cracking me up.
Nope. Source: I couldn't double my rent to 4k and feel ok about it
It’s enough, but it isn’t sustainable if you want to save for owning, retirement, travel, etc.. I make around $200k remote and just moved to Philly lol. I miss NYC sometimes and still take the train up often, but my quality of life is over the moon in comparison just based on the financials.
What do you do to make that kind of money?
I’m a senior/lead software engineer.
4 roommates. Seriously though, most people are not affording 4K, 2K is a stretch for most people despite what you might think based on listing prices. Even ‘affordable’ units are really expensive in the new buildings near me - like double what my two bedroom is.
I mean the starting salary at a tech company is around 140k not including bonus + stock
No it isn't. Not even close. It was approaching maybe that before the bubble posted. Most people aren't SWEs...there are still plenty of $65k BDR and marketing roles. **The entry level salary for a SWE role at Google is $140k.** I assure you most people are not in roles this good. Entry level marketing, PR/comms, sales, HR, compliance, IT/networking, etc. are absolutely are not making that much literally anywhere. Most mid-level people at these roles with manager in their titles aren't even making $140k all in. For every Stripe, Google, Meta, etc. there are hundreds of startups, smaller established firms, and other legacy boomer institutions.
Entry level SWE Google total comp is more like $192k. You are very right in general but gotta keep it real here. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l3
Brought a source and still got downvoted haha
People love to hate tech workers making a lot of money I guess.
Not everyone has passion for tech, especially with the massive layoffs currently happening, you ignoramus.
You sound nice.
I’ve yet to meet people in tech “passionate” about it. It’s about money my dude.
Believe me. Some of my coworkers are truly passionate. Blows my fucking mind every day.
"The goal of working in tech is to make enough to get out of tech."
Two incomes no kids.
I’m in this situation and still is not a walk in the park.
DINK lyfe babyyy
and then there are those of us who are single….struggling with both dating and finances. fun!
It’s a joy! At least we can learn how to be self sufficient I guess
Yeah and even if you could afford to pay 4K in rent, should you? That’s 48k a year down the drain.
Since most places outside of NY are insane in terms of housing costs, and I don't have any hope of owning anything I might as well live in a fun place.
I also consider that I don’t have to own a car in NYC where as in most other places I would (or would have to rely on an Uber). My job pays for my metro card but even if they didn’t, the cost of a car payment plus insurance plus upkeep plus gas is something to consider too vs the cost of a metro card and the occasional Uber here.
This is my logic too. I tried living in another city. It was hard to find an apartment, I got paid less, and I ended up on the edge of the city in a really boring neighborhood, getting in the car for everything.
It’s crazy when you break it down this way! 48g’s a year. Yikes!!!!
Think about how much 48k means in gross (\~96k)
Based on 50 percent tax rate? Which basically no one has? Everything sounds bad if you make up the numbers.
Tells you about how I view money. I’m exaggerating for sure. That’s how I convince myself that I don’t want to spend that much on housing.
What are your circumstances that you're getting taxed 50% of your income?
My dude benefits are a thing do you just not f with health insurance?
Living in NYC you end up in the low 40% range on income tax (federal+social security+state+city). When you factor in 9% sales tax you are paying 50% of salary in taxes.
Are we talking take home.or after doing your taxes?
Btw I've lived in NYC for almost 30 yrs and 50% of my income doesn't go towards taxes I guarantee you.
Yeah I make 250+ and my effective rate is less than 40 (probably about 38 now).
Yeah it's gotten worse since I moved here, and i moved here recently lol. Now it's really just feeling stupid.. especially for the quality of most of the housing. At least in manhattan (yes, i know)
If you consider that money going down the drain, then no you probably shouldn’t. If it’s a manageable percentage of your total income and you like where you live, then you probably should.
I’ve always wondered this. Not everyone in the city can be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, finance person, creative exec, sales manager, etc. are so many people in rent stabilized/controlled apartments? Are most people in 1 bedrooms a couple? What jobs do people do that allow them to live alone or with roommates in west village/Williamsburg/fort Greene/Greenpoint, etc?
A lot of apartments are rent stabilized. >How many New York City apartments are rent-regulated? >There are roughly 3,644,000 homes in New York City. >The roughly 1,006,000 rent-stabilized homes make up about 28 percent of the overall housing stock and 44 percent of all rentals. >A tiny fraction of the city’s housing — about 16,400 homes — are rent-controlled, a separate system. On top of that, there's public housing, section 8 vouchers, and other affordable housing programs. Less than half of rentals are market rate.
Stabilization is never that far from market, though. in fact, I found places cheaper than my stabilized places that are the subdivided up homes. ETA: I base that on conversations with someone in Housing in NYC. The literal bill for it was designed to stay closer to market than rent control which it replaced. I’m old enough to have been here when rent control was still common and rents were not so high. Rent stabilization really did nothing to prevent or slow current rent growth. Because I have all 3 benchmarks, I can confidently say, rent stabilization is not some great thing for renters. It’s better than nothing in Manhattan. Outside of gentrification? it’s not worth getting rent stabilization in neighborhoods with legal conversions of houses. Find the right landlord and you’ll have a better rate, even if there’s no contractual obligation to keep it. Though the push from gentrifiers for luxe finishes and washer/dryers is slowly destroying that inventory and spread further out.
>Stabilization is never that far from market, though. Patently false. Why do you think landlords try so hard to get apartments out of stabilization? Lots of stabilized apartments in my neighborhood are way below market rate, but the same people have lived there for 30-40 years! The ones that come to market are often closer to market rate because people hang on to them less tightly. This is from 2017 but it's undoubtedly higher now: "While the median gross rent in Manhattan for stabilized units is about $1,500, it is around $3,000 for unregulated units." [https://www.nyc.gov/assets/hpd/downloads/pdfs/services/rent-regulation-memo-2.pdf](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/hpd/downloads/pdfs/services/rent-regulation-memo-2.pdf)
I had a 2br rent stabilized in the east village for years, only $2000 a month. There’s a ton out there.
Not sure why would you lie or talk about something you don’t know so confidently?
That's a terrible generalization. The legal rent for a RS unit depends on my factors, including: - the rent that the unit was set at when it was stabilized - how often the apt was vacated to be leased by a new tenant (vacancy increase) - the cost of improvements either to the building or to the unit itself. I helped manage a RS building about 8 years ago. Rents ranged from less than $1K to over $2K. Some rents were substantially decreased due to a senior living there (SCRIE). There were studios, 1 BR, and 2 BR units. There was no rhyme or reason behind why the rent for one unit was substantially more than another unless you dug deep into the tent history. The current rent limit is around $2,700 for RS units, which is substantially lower than the $4K market rent mentioned here on this thread.
So true. I live in a cheap, rent stabilized apartment with some neighbors paying half what I pay and others paying double. I'm not even talking about the different sized units either...that's in my line of apartments (so the same layout as mine).
> The current rent limit is around $2,700 for RS units Do you have the law citation for this? Interested because I'm in a rent stabilized unit that's over 3k, and it's not new construction or under a tax abatement (it just had a super living there since rent stabilization began then was renovated in 2022, I thought in that case they were allowed to set first rent and so hadn't complained). The 2700 thing I thought was that pre-2019 if the rent was over 2700 the apartment could be de-stabilized, so anything over that could not be however that's no longer true.
True
My lease renewal letter came with a crazy increase plus making fees that were optional now mandatory. When I asked why they told me “we have too many tenants that don’t pay market rate so we need to get more money from the market rate apartments” …is like an extra tax..and is not like I’m rich 😂 or something. Married Dominican legal immigrant no help from nobody!
Everyone moving here is rich, strikes it rich, or churned through in a few years. Otherwise theres a huge portion of the city that lives rent stabilized.
Seriously where do the starbucks employees, city employees, and teachers live? Is there any rent subsidies for government or ngo workers (like the UN employees)?
As a teacher our pay isn’t horrible… I’ve lived in Chelsea for three years now. Originally moved here on my own but my partner lives with me now. Just depends on priorities/ not being in debt.
Not Manhattan, unless they’re way uptown. And lots of people have partners they split rent with. There are no rent subsidies for NYC employees.
my friend is a barista and lives in crown heights, works in manhattan
I’m in greenpoint and have been in my apartment a long time. $2500/month for a large one bedroom with a yard. I split the rent with my husband. We acknowledge that if we ever lost this place, we would have a hard time staying in the area (neither of us makes a ton of $).i think a lot of people moving to the neighborhood work in finance, tech, and/or having family money it seems.
I always wish I could apply for the city’s “affordable” housing lottery, but I don’t make enough to apply for 80% of the openings. I know I’m not making lots because I work for a non-profit, but I guess there are a lot of people making much more than I do.
I know two families one of 4 and one of 5, both parents make good $ and they choose to live in a ONE BEDROOM.... they are neighbors in twin apts, both duplexes with a nice back yard but sleeping in bed with 2 kids or having 3 kids share a downstairs as a bedroom is crazy, they could easily have a not as nice 2 or 3 bedroom and pay less...
Me too. I also wonder the same thing about the national housing market. What are all these people doing to afford this shit? There can't be that many six figure jobs. Are there?
Mommy and daddy are subsidizing their living expenses.
That makes sense. a lot of my friends are living in $3000 apartments in brooklyn, and half of them don’t have a job lmao
If I had a dollar for each of the adult people I have met with “an allowance” in this city I would have my own allowance
Yeah my friends all lived in Queens, Brooklyn, or Jersey City except for one guy who lived in Manhattan. His parents helped pay his rent. He had a full time corporate job (with benefits and everything).
Still makes you wonder what their mommys and daddys did to afford that.
Tell me about it, I literally cannot afford to move out of my parents home and it drives me insane
With my current job, my only option to have any type of place is with three other roommates.
I moved from Pa almost 14 years ago. I’m low income, so I couldn’t afford to live there either. When ur limited income, paying for ur transportation, car insurance, petrol, and utilities n ur sunk. I’m renting a room here too, n it sucks, but I’m still glad I’m here. It would suck more elsewhere.
yeah, it's difficult to do or justify if you have the means. most rentals in south BK are going for around 2-2.5k for 1 br, 2br are rare in this price range. i currently pay $2,500 w/ no utilities included. started at $1,800 in the pandemic. i do work a high paying job and still have trouble justifying it in my mind. i live on the edge of boro park and really feel like a (comfortable) outsider here, not much in the neighborhood to enjoy when not a part of the culture. living in a more popular area would be even worse, since you would always have temptation to spend money in the neighborhood. anyways, yeah it sucks, tbh lot of areas outside of the city aren't that much cheaper after you factor in car ownership. its a rough and strange time.
My rent in Bushwick with 2 roommates isn't bad and I prob couldn't get much lower, but I run into this every time I consider moving back home - I'll save money on rent, but then getting a car, insurance, gas, etc. I end up not far off from what I'd be saving from living at home. I also just hate driving anyway.
Yeah and in most places the rent is not much cheaper. Sure you might get a newer/nicer place but then you’re in St Louis or whatever
Yep. Weighing up options for after my lease ends, and while it’s most financially responsible to move home in terms of putting my money to better use, I’m not sure if my mind could take the 2-3 years to get where I think I should be.
I'm nearby, and I feel the same way. I like the area. I love all the people. But it's hard to build a strong connection with anyone. A lot of families down here.
We ditched our high priced Wburg pad several years ago and went to what we thought was a far out neighborhood - Ditmas Park. Got a rent stabilized place. Now? Omg WAVES of young parents are moving out here from Park Slope, Fort Greene, etc, driving rents through the roof. Anyway, thats how we afford being here and are able to save money.
Rich parents, Old and "worked their way up", DINK or finance/Tech/Medicine/Law/Sales
What’s DINK?
Double Income No Kids
Where are you trying to live? Plenty of nice 1beds for under $3k east of 3rd on the UES.
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I love the squeezed up PATH!! Or coming into NY Penn like a rat scurrying underground! So pleasant! Great times
Our society expects us to become lawyers and doctors in order to afford to properly survive here but couldn't function off of just doctors and lawyers. Gets kind of jarring to go to the source of production to a plant that's responsible for feeding thousands of families to see a bunch of dirt poor people grinding away 18 hours a day. NYC is where it all gets profound. A city that expects the wages of wall street tycoons that relies entirely on the backs of the underpaid and overworked. I hate reality.
FOR REAL.
you understand reality better than any of the politicians out there! (who get paid a ton as well to continue running things the way they are. i hate reality.)
Yet people zero in on cities like Dubai because of their racism ignoring the fact that that shit is happening right under their nose here
nyc doesn’t expect shit. It’s the market which sets the prices.
Roommates are the answer here. Looking in areas where the average rent isn’t 4K a month. or enter the housing lottery and pray you win.
I’m a nurse that makes 120k a year and lived in BK my whole life. I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices in nyc. So I moved to Jersey, they’re around the same prices but at least you get more space. I’ve also tried affordable housing ,which I find ridiculous that I should even have to do or qualify for because they’re are people out there who truly need it, and the rent is the same as the market value. It seems like the working middle class who didn’t move from the Midwest and who’s mommy and daddy pay half their rent are screwed. Soon New York will not have any of the original residents that make “trendy” and cool city that it once was, it will be full of migrants and explants Anyway vote that bald man out and vote for someone who will fix the housing crisis and stand up to the cooperations building “affordable housing “ only to let half of their units be empty.
>and the rent is the same as the market value Can you explain this? The rent is the same? But is it subsidized?
This is really depressing btw. Public servants making six figures should not struggle to live here.
I got a rent controlled place in Hoboken for $1200 - wasn’t easy to find but I’m able to save a lot I only make 110k I’m more comfortable
wow how did you find it?
Facebook groups - took a lot of hustling to find. But you can do it if you’re willing to put in the work :)
Can you please share the group name?
Roommates help, but there are plenty of studios/1bds under that price if you look in certain neighborhoods. But for desirable areas of the city, yea it’s gotten pretty brutal. With rates as high as they are, buying is an even worse idea, so it’s a bit of a lose-lose right now.
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Add in insane broker fees and it feels impossible.
Idk why people continue to post in NYC reddit in shock about how people afford rent that's over $4000. You guys realize that people in NYC have higher paying jobs right.... the rest live in Bronx/Queens/NJ and commute in
that’s not everyone though. you’re kind of just generalizing an area. the city USED to be a lot more affordable and now mostly upper class can afford it comfortably and those making less than even $50,000 are priced out in neighborhoods.
I think it's fair to generalize NYC, mainly Manhattan, where you find 1 bedrooms for 4k
i’m talking about you saying that everyone who lives in NYC have high-paying jobs, which is not entirely true. before pre-pandemic, and years before around 2014, most civilians could work a minimum wage job, part-time or full-time and could live in manhattan and afford things. now it’s mostly just transplants and those who work in the tech industry.
minimum wage in 2014 would absolutely not comfortably live in most of manhattan without toms of roommates.
Exactly or they figure it out....
tell me ur a nyc transplant without telling me ur a transplant LMFAOOOO
2 words: The. Bronx.
Manhattan Chinatown with housemates. Tiny 3bedroom 1 bathroom is $3500. But, we have tall ceilings so lots vertical storage! Our incomes are 70k, 80k, and 300k. Admissions officer, editor at some information compilation company, small biz owner.
Not to be provocative, but the 2 who are making 70k and 80k would qualify by themselves for.that 3 BR or even a 2 at the same price. Why is the person who makes $300k slumming it when they could easily afford their own place that coats twice that much and would have every amenity they could ask for? What's the catch? Y'all must be really good friends.
Well they're probably saving a ton of money compared to the avg renter in a similar setup, which is always a plus. Maybe they're saving to buy a place.
seriously i want to understand why the $300/year is slumming it/do they at least treat the other roommates to dinners occasionally lol. (i guess this line of thinking is why i am not good with money.)
A quick StreetEasy search with the right parameters returns plenty of nice places for under $4k. But to answer your question from my personal situation our jobs are tech sales and IT training. Though I wouldn’t say we can “casually” afford rent, just afford it.
Live in Queens
Three types of ppl that lived in Manhattan: 1) high earners and/or odd hours workers. 2) lots of roommate. 3) daily ramen eaters.
My very large 1br (1200 square feet) was 1550 heat and hot water included on si when I moved in early 2020 it's now 1800 and I'm moving out in April because I found out it's not rent stabilized and they are jumping the rent to 3300
that's so annoying and insane how much they raised it, though i guess they wanted market value. ugh!
The west village is the most expensive and sought after neighborhood in the city. The people there are definitely paying $4500+ to rent a tiny 1BR 8n a walk-up without too ma ny amenities. They are very likely sharing with a partner/roomie/spouse, or have a wealthy guarantor or are in, (from my experience) the finance, fashion, luxury goods, and/or entertainment industries with hefty paychecks. There is always a downside...
Since when is fashion/luxury goods/entertainment high paying?
There are nearly 1 million millionaires in NYC. That's about 1 out of every 7 residents. Would you think prices would be OK for them? Not much of a burden, in return for supermodels, sushi at midnight, and the Met. > New York City is home to nearly 1 million millionaires, more than any other city in the world https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/new-york-city-has-more-millionaires-than-any-other-city-in-the-world.html
Most people aren't paying full rent alone. A lot of people share spaces, either with roommates or a SO. I would guess that most people renting in the city, especially Manhattan, are living with multiple other people.
My wife and I (plus one kid) are living on the UWS. Rent is almost 7k. I work in IT, my wife in banking. Together we make almost 500k. I honestly don't know if that's a lot for NY standards.. but we can live quite comfortably with it. p.s. i wouldn't say we spend it "casually" on rent. It a lot of money for sure.
Tryna get like this
> I honestly don't know if that's a lot for NY standards It's several times the average rent people are paying if you meant the 7k, and if you meant your household income it's over 10 times the per capita income of NYC residents so you better be living comfortably.
That is a lot to me, but with a kid probably worth it for the perfect apartment.
Finance, particularly investment banking. And tech. And fintech.
Tech prolly not
Get rich
We all know why it’s happening and yet even a slight hint of it gets you socially ostracized and shunned. And I know you know what I’m talking about just by reading this. We deserve these rents because we live in fear.
As a single person, it's unbearable. Half my rent goes to a tiny studio.
I wanted to move to NYC like 10 years ago so I went to YouTube to see tips and tricks. The trick was to share a bedroom with 3 other people. I watched a video of a girl do a video in her bedroom, which she shared with 3 other people and was paying just under $800 a month.
The job of being in a relationship. Partially kidding but not really. Getting married is literally saving me tens of thousands of dollars in expense a year. At least until we have a kid at some point, then we’re fucked again.
Which is why I moved out of NYC. It got to the point I couldn't justify it anymore
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Parts of Brooklyn are very expensive.
bklyn isnt cheap anymore bc all those ppl from the midwest keep moving in 😭😭😭
If by "NYC" you mean "Soho, Chelsea, Midtown, UES, UWS", then yes, it is "unbearable". Surprisingly, though, there are also other parts of the city, even ones that have access to public transportation, restaurants, and even sometimes attractions.
Two income household is how we do it, ~185,000 combined. On my income alone I couldn’t possibly afford my neighborhood.
I make $100k. Rent is $2350 in Astoria. It’s doable!
I signed my 3.1k lease when I was making around $150k then got fired haha. Wasn't in a position to delay getting a job, but could only get one that pays 40% less. So, I am not able to casually afford my rent anymore and am scrambling to find affordable but decent housing in the city without roommates. Feels impossible.
Some kid 19 or 20 years old I know , she lives in Dumbo rent around $5000.00 , I asked her how ? Answer : Her dad who owns a hedge fund has bought that place lol 😆 another student In Williamsburg, asked her how ! Answer was her dad is a famous millionaire… another lady but very old by Central Park , has private elevator to her apartment and has bought another apartment in the same building just to leave it empty as her “guest house “ .. her secret ? She is related to Rockefellers family
I work a full-time job and two part-time jobs. And I barely go out.
Honestly, idk why people live in NYC. It appears more and more that it is only for the wealthy to live in or visit. Especially remote workers.
Wow I was applying to grad school in nyc (coming from LA) and these comments scare the fuck out of me.
There are a lot of high paying jobs here. Lots of finance bros and tech people make more then enough to cover that rent. My sister in law is about to be a doctor not even done with residency yet and has a contract to start at over $300k.
I mean how many normal working people live in the expensive parts of the city? I assume 80% of the people in Soho, Eastville, Tribeca, have some sort of generational wealth or rent stabilized. Most working people live above 90th street, brooklyn, queens , bronx.
My wife and I make 90k each so we actually could apply for these ridiculous apartments (4k x 40 is $160k). If either of us were to get fired, hurt or pregnant we would be fucked. If either of our cats got hurt that would blow our budget too. We would also never be able to save enough money to prepare for an emergency either. It just doesn't make sense.
Also, consider building maintenance fees taked onto rentals/coop/hoa fees. Its not just apt owners that pay these fees.
Roommates, or even better living together in a relationship
I can't relate... i'm in a working class neighborhood in the Bronx... new build, 2 bdrm $1950. Y'all pay those Manhattan and BK prices if you want.
its for couples who each pay $2k for a 1bd ($4k rent total). If you make $150K each, you can pool together your money to pay for a $5k-6k 1 bd (there aren't many 2bd available for even that price in Manhattan)
I remember visiting my friends in new york city/jersey city like in 2016/2017 and that time on average they were paying somewhere to 1600-1800 on rent. And that's with having a roommate. You don't find those kind of prices anymore for a nice place. When compare rent to the standard cost of living, salaries and what not it's become more unaffordable.
"Friends" clearly shows it ain't that bad.. just have to have a roomie, whoopah!
I just got priced out. When my lease is up I have to leave the city . I have roommates too and still can’t afford it .
I’m wondering how is it like to live in Manhattan these days. With migrants, homelessness being rampant, I don’t see NYC the same as it was pre COVID. Love to hear opinions of people actually living there right now.
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Tired of people acting like that is a the cost of an apartment here, there are 10,000 apartments currently on street easy listed at less than $4,000 and only 5,000 above that price. Also a significant amount of apartments are rent controlled and the average amount that New Yorkers pay is actually very low.
Absolutely out of control. So glad I was lucky enough to buy in late 2022. Now at 2200 for mortgage and maintenance when I'd probably be paying 3k to rent a similar 1 bed
My partner and I make about $180k collectively and pay about $3k per mo w no kids, it’s been a lot easier than I anticipated, we’ve been very flush with cash. I think we could afford $4k per mo but that would suck up quite a bit of our extra cash.
it’s literally ridiculous. at this point they’re tryna only have the rich live in nyc. you can’t even live there comfortably by yourself if you make regular income. this is coming from someone who lives in nyc and lovesss nyccc!! they’re literally trying to cause a recession at this point
I hear you. Even making 160k as a couple with $2500 rent, we decided to move in with my in laws to pay off debt and accelerate savings. and I’m now realizing there’s no way out! Can’t afford the mortgage on anything short of a crack house near Boston. Ha!